Lead and Make Decisions Through Tough Times with Kevin "KG" Gaither

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Well, thanks for having me on. I'm humbled by your intro, sir. And congratulations to all your success. You know, it's a rare. It's a rare breed that takes the mentoring and then takes to whole new levels. You just crossed a hundred thousand followers on LinkedIn. I'm. Congratulations, dude. I'm so proud of you. You've taken the bowl and run and, and gone to absolute new heights.

You're. You're.

You're the man. Nice work.

I. I appreciate that. And I. True. And I do truly believe. I'm don't know that I'm here without our early relationship. And I do mean that. I still have my binder. Actually. We'll do this. We'll do this right now. I still have this right behind my.

Look at that. Mike Brooks. Mike. Mr.

Inside Sales Brooks. I'm jealous of his nickname. And in here, I still have all of the CDs of you and Mike breaking down how to build an org and how to do things. And this is what got me started on building. I knew how to lead, I didn't know how to build. And that is what helped me learn how to build an org. Right. And so now, as we dive into the topic today, because right now a lot of people aren't building, they're frozen.

Yep.

Waiting. We're in this weird, uncertain time right now. And you're working with a lot of CEOs right now, and companies that are kind of in this, like, they know they need to do something, but they're afraid to make a mistake. So how are you starting to kind of guide leaders through, like, when things are uncertain, how to make decisions during uncertain times?

Yeah. I was literally coaching somebody this morning, and I said to him, we can be nice. We don't have to be that nice. And that's the unfortunate truth. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of shit on LinkedIn these days that is very negative and critical of the CEOs and heads of sales and the unfortunate decisions. You know, hey, corp bro wouldn't have a business if he couldn't make fun of CEOs that have to make, you know, difficult decisions at this. At this time. You know, and it's easy to make fun of the CEOs, but this is really difficult. The stuff that they. They have to do. And so the Statement I made was we could be nice, but we don't have to be that nice. There's a, there's a real fact to this, and you can look it up yourself, that high performing sales organizations and companies, they focus more on like pipeline generation and sales process adherence. And third or fourth in line, they, they focus on sales morale. They focus on sales morale. So for example, when we're talking about quotas for next year and you see your team is, you know, 70% of them are above quota, that would indicate to me that we can raise quota a little bit, maybe, you know, increase it by 20%. And this sales leader that I was talking to said, yeah, but I don't want to piss off my salespeople. You know, I don't want. How is that going to affect morale? And, and I said to him, this is the kind of stuff that, when you say things like that to your CEO or to the board, I'm afraid to raise quota because I'm afraid that it's going to affect morale. This is the kind of stuff that, that leads to CROs having an 18 month life cycle at their, at their business because they can't separate the emotions from what, what is actually needed to make a successful business. So let me stop, I can just go on, on a diatribe. How's that, how's that landing with you, Katie?

I love it. Because we can keep unpacking this because there is a right and wrong way to do this.

Sure.

Right. Because yes, you can raise quotas and sometimes you should raise the quota, but there's a right and wrong way to do this. So let's keep going down this path of how do you communicate this type of change? Oh yeah, this is leaders. All right, cool, we're doing it. And then we walk out there and go, hey, y', all, so bad news, you know, quotas are going up this year. I know, I know, but. Right. How do you communicate this type of change as a leader? Because morale is important. It is business needs. So walk us through like that actual communication process.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And again, this is a, you know, I didn't say that morale is not important. And to be an uncaring leader, it is, it is deprioritized to, to these other things. And for sure it's communicate early and often. And that's like, go put that on a bumper sticker. Like it's ridiculous when, you know, when people, you know, post these kind of platitudes and things like that. But here's how it works in real. First, you're going to gain agreement with your sales leaders that are, that are underneath you. Like, hey, this is where we're going to get to. You know where we need to get to. What do we need to, what do we need to do? Then pull in some of your top performers and, and preview this with them. And by the way, don't think that they're going to keep it a secret. They're not. It's going to leak out. But you want to make sure you have these top performers understand what, why we are raising quotas. And the top performers are already well above that number anyway. And they're likely saying to you, kg, you can put the number wherever you want to put it. I'm going to hit it anyway. So you want to get your top performers not surprised and supporting it then becomes the unbelievably detailed deck that you're now going to go to the team with. And this is where most people, I think fail. They want to, you know, run fast and break things at startups, right? And so that means, they think that means don't be prepared. And that's stupid. Especially when you're leading a sales team. And I don't care if you have a six person sales team or a 60 person sales team. Put that deck together. And one of the most important things that you can put together in the deck is quota. Goes like this. Here's what it's going to mean for people that are high performers, average performers and low performers. And you literally don't let them come to their own conclusion about what they're going to make or what they're not going to make, literally use past data from a high performer. So the quota went like this. High performers, if they perform this way from last year, this is what they would, this is what they, how they would perform, this is what they would make. This is what an average performer is going to make. This is what a bottom. And you're using historical data and applying it to the new quota and comp plan and being overly transparent. And in some of those instances, especially with the low performers, kd, it's going to show that they make less money. And your next slide after this is yes, same production, less money, but next slide is what additional resources are we going to apply? Are we going to, you know, are we going to hire KD to come in and do some sales training? Has marketing, you know, committed to 20% more SQLs? You know, you want to show how you're supporting this or not by the way, you want to be transparent with your team as transparent. And. And then you're going to have to get to the end of this. And there's the dirty looks, there's the snotty comments that happen in the meeting. Trust me, I've been there and got my ass handed to me. And. And then you literally have to have this slide. And when I say literally, I mean literally. The last slide has to be something like get on the bus or get off the bus. Unfortunately, there's that little tough love, because if you continue to leave the door open that this is a negotiable situation, then you're going to get hammered on a consistent basis because your sales reps are going to keep coming to you saying, well, the quote is too high. I don't know how I'm going to get there. Can we keep talking? Can we keep talking? You're going to have to let them know that this is where we're going. This is what's going to happen. This is the resources we're giving to you. And your top performers bought into this. Your managers bought into this. Now it's time to disagree and commit. Get on the bus or get off the bus. And that's. That's a tougher conversation. Otherwise, your reps are just going to keep nipping at your sales manager's heels. How's that landing with you, kd? I know you've done this before.

Absolutely. And I've done it right. I've also done it wrong and learned these lessons as you go. And one of the things that I want people to pick up from what you're putting down is not just the structure, but the certainty, the way it's communicated. This is done right. It's because it's the uncertainty that creates all of the problems versus this is what it is. Now let's talk about how we can get there and the resources available to it. It's less time on the what and more time on the how. But to your last point, it's not like this isn't up for debate. This is not a conversation because that when people ruminate on it, when they aren't sure if it's real, that's when it spins out of control. And during tough times, people do need clarity and certainty. This is what it is. This is what we're doing. Let's talk about how we can get there. Because when you're waffling as a leader, I think that's important, which I think is the next point. I wanted to talk about is how do you maintain. Call it, executive presence as a leader. Right. Convey confidence to your team, while at the same time not really sure what's going on, not really sure how things are going to play out. Like, how do you walk that line between being the leader your people can look to, but also not being ignorant of reality? Because I am seeing that happen often, too, where leaders just get in front of, like, we got this, y'. All. We can do this. Just keep going. And the team's like, are you. Half of us haven't hit 70% of our number yet. Like, and there's this gap. So how do you walk that line again, of leading through tough times of, like, being that leader but also not being, like, ignorant of reality?

Yeah. So this is. This is where. When I've had to do that. And, you know, look, I had to lead through the last recession in 2007, 8, 9. Back back then. And. And that was a real. A real learning lesson. And I turned over the team a hundred percent at that time, by the way. And we're going through very similar challenges right now with layoffs, and things need to change and pivot and things like that. And. And this. I don't have. I don't have the. I'm gonna say a word, and it's gonna sound so creepy when I say it. You really have to love your sales reps. And. And it's. And it sounds so creepy when. When you say it, because it's like two dudes talking about love. Like, no, like, I really do mean this in that you. You can be a compassionate leader, and you can. And make sure that you're showing empathy for the. You know, for the situation. And talk to the salespeople, you know, when they want to talk to you. And there's a manager and a director in between that. Your rep and you take that time. Take that time to speak with your top performers. And when people reach out to you on Slack and they're like, hey, kg, can we talk about this? I'm really concerned about this. You're right to be concerned. Let's have a conversation. But again, you said it correct. It is not up for debate. But I want to be empathetic and listen to your situation and show that I care. Show that I care. Show that I have some love for you. And I think that there's a lot. A lot of leaders out there that think that they need to be. Especially guys that they. They need to be, like, tough dudes. You know, it's my way or the highway and, you know, whatever. And I say things like get on the bus or get on. Get off the bus. And I don't mean that to be a jerk. Don't be a jerk about this because you could be staring down the barrel of somebody who's. Who's crying in front of you and they're worried about hitting goal. You can still be empathetic, but you can also be firm. And you can also know in the back of your. And give them the help and the guidance and the coaching that you think that they need. But you also know that they're not going to make it through this. They'll be gone in 90 days. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't care for them and love them.

Yeah, no. And it's funny, you know, actually the first person that really started I heard using love as sales leaders was Barsy.

Oh, yeah. Ralph.

Ralph Barsy was one of the. I remember this was. God, there's seven, eight years ago. I remember watching him present and he was using the word love and I was like, yes, like, you can love your people and, but also, too. And I, dude, I messed this up early in my career. There's a difference between loving and coddling, and there's a difference between loving and trying to protect. Sometimes because you love someone, you have to let them go. Because you love them, you have to make the tough choice. Whereas trying to protect them from that and all my parents. You know exactly where I'm going with this. You can't protect your children from everything because when you try, it actually makes things worse. Versus have that tough conversation. Go through it and, you know, make sure that it's clear. Like this is coming from a place of love. But this is the decision.

Yeah.

And we have to make sure that that is clear. And it starts. Before you get to tough times, your team needs to know that you love them. So actually, let's go this path here real quick as a leader, like, because I firmly believe, right. When things get tough, if your team knows you've had their back, if you, if they know that you do love them and things get tough, they're more likely to rally around you versus like, oh, like, I hate this guy. He's an asshole. How could he? So talk about how do you lead with love, Right? Like, how do you lead with love so that when it gets tough, people are more likely to rally with you versus go against you.

Yeah. Well, when you think about, you know, I, I show care. I show care for somebody. A lot of that has to do with you know, the, you know, the listening. And it's so funny. I'm thinking about back in 2016, 2015, when we were really ramping up at ZipRecruiter and we were sort of, we had crossed the chasm and figured out like, where goals should be and what the process should like be like codified. And we weren't experimenting as much any anymore. And it was time to just put the money in and start to scale to but with process. And so we put a bunch of things in place. I think it was like May 2015. And I'm telling you what, Katie, from May 2015 until November of 2015, the Glassdoor reviews just plummeted. It was awful. And the CEO, the co founder, the cfo, they're coming into my office, they're going, what are you doing to this sales team? This is awful. And I said, we're making these necessary changes. We're making the necessary changes. And now I'll fast forward, by the way. 2016, we, we got rid of people that weren't on the bus. New people came on board. Revenues doubled, revenues doubled. And the glassdoor reviews accelerated past where they were before. People didn't know no better. The new people didn't know no better. And they were in this system where they could win and where, where they could be successful. But the old guard couldn't deal with that change. But that didn't mean that while those glass doors were dipping that I wasn't having these conversations and my managers weren't having these conversations with these individuals that were having difficulty making, making changes. And anybody who's ever worked for me will know that I will always say things like, look, if this isn't the right fit for you, like, I want to help you, I want to get you the resources that you need. But if this isn't the right fit for you, I know a lot of places where I can introduce you and put you into the right place. Katie, fill in the blank here. This is going to be a pop quiz. Hopefully this works out. Winners never quit and quitters never win. Right? And, and that's a bunch of happy horseshit.

Sounds like. I don't want to say it because I don't agree, but I don't know where he's going. So yes, keep going.

That's exactly where I'm going. And because the fact of the matter is, is that there is a home for everybody. There is a home where everybody can be an A player. And I know that sounds like really, really weird, but it's like no, you might. The role that you're in, if this isn't successful for you, let me help you find another role. And by the way, that role could be at the current company. During that time, kd, I took many people that were on the account executive team. Those dogs couldn't hunt anymore. They couldn't get to the levels that I was requiring. And I said, great, let's move you over to our existing. Our new existing accounts team that calls into current customers so now you don't have to hunt. You work with your current customers to upsell, cross, sell. Maybe customer success or customer service is a better fit for you. Let's move you. I moved a couple of people that were having difficulty changing into. Into marketing. Into. Into marketing, man. And, and then some people moved out and I helped them get new opportunities at other. At other companies. Not everybody, but it's listening. It's listening with empathy to these people. Look, I don't know about you, but every time I make a hire, I fall in love with them just a little bit. You know, it's like, I love this person because you're like, I want them on my team. I fall in love with you just a little bit, man. And so I believe that the leaders need to continue with that level of empathy. If you love them when you hired them, continue to show that empathy for their situation and see if you can help them get into the right place. And sometimes it's telling them, hey, maybe the universe is telling you that it's time to move on and do something else because it's not working for you. You know, look at your face, man. Like, you're crying. You know, this isn't. You're. Obviously, you can't sleep at night. This is no way to go through life. Let me help you get into a different role. And that different role could be here or it could be someplace else. But having those conversations as opposed to saying, suck it up, man, rub some dirt in it, that's not that. That is not good leadership.

And again, if you love them, you wouldn't want them in a role where they're not succeeding. This is what I had to talk about with my managers very often is because we love someone, we hold onto them too long. Hold onto them too long where really, if you break it down, you are holding onto this individual in a role they're not succeeding in, which means they aren't happy, they're not making the money they want to, they aren't sleeping well, they are stressed. Like, all of those things are things that we have to make sure we remember. Would you do that to someone you love? Would you put them into a role where they're not, like, succeeding? If you love them, you wouldn't. And you have to move through it. And I think that's where. And, like, when you opened up, right, There's a lot of, you know, grief being given to, like, leaders and making decisions and how these things are happening when at the end of the day, there's also. There's things that are attached to that where they don't understand. Like, this is actually, like, one. If there's not a business, everybody fails, right? If the business goes under, nobody has a job.

Yes, yes.

Customers are impacted, too. And second, I know people listening, they're gonna hate me for this statement, whatever. But, like, what also remember is, like, if the company is going the wrong direction, that means all those individuals were about to be in roles where they would have been failing every day as well, too. And so that's a transition where it does. It sucks, but, like, those are things that happen. But now let's talk. Let's keep going down this path. I think this. People are always afraid to talk about this. You think about, like, how to do this the right way. We talked about how to roll out tough news. We've even talked a little bit of, like, almost like, how to let someone go that you care about. Right. And go through. Last point I want to make here that does get lost. I'm literally leading a session on this next week is how do you lead those that are still there? Because there's some survivor bias. Sometimes there is some, like, oh, like, people are leaving and I'm still here. How do you manage people through that? Right? Because again, there's the leading with. There's the making the challenges, but now you do. You've got a team. Things are rocky out there. How are you through that?

Yeah, well, first of all, I want to back up just a microsecond, because there is sometimes a tendency for leaders to artificially prop up the people that they like, the favoritism. And let me just tell you, do not do this under any circumstances, especially in today's environment. You're. You're. As a leader, somebody catches you propping up somebody, you know, showing favoritism, giving them the choice accounts, this will backfire on you like you wouldn't believe. And God help you if. If the person that's not getting that favoritism is in a protected class. You are absolutely screwed. So do. Do not. Do not think that you're doing because sometimes sales leaders, especially the inexperienced ones are like, well, I just, I, I really like this person so I want to help them out. And so I'm going to give them extra this or more this or whatever. Manage everybody fairly, but not necessarily equally, but you manage everyone fairly. And, and when you create, when in tough times you're like, well, I want to help this person better and you're doing it in a non objective or a subjective type of way, boy, you're asking for difficulty as a, you know, as a, as a sales leader. Now you talked about, you talked about, you know, who's left, you know, when people are, people are leaving and things are, things are challenging. This is where in my mind the, the, one of the main responsibilities of a leader is to paint a picture of where we are going and why we are going there, okay? And this isn't like, you know that poster on the wall of the cat hanging off the thing? Hang in there, baby. Like, no, that's not what I'm talking about, man. I'm talking about like, look, recessions happen, you know, every so often, every seven years, every 10 years, every 12 years, whatever. So this is going to happen again, okay? You're living through it right now and you're surviving and you're thriving in this right now. What you're learning with me is going to benefit you moving forward. And so painting that picture of like, imagine where your career is going to be 6 months and 12 months and 24 months because you've gotten better working with me in this, in this tough time. Imagine what your career is going to be like in 6 to 12 or 24 months. Now imagine if you quit on me. Imagine if you say it was too hard and I decided to quit. What story are you going to be able to tell to your next employer about what you learned during that environment? And I'm talking about the people that are left, okay? The people that are left. There's people that failed out. There's people that decided to move on on their own and those are the right decisions. It wasn't a good fit for me. Now you're dealing with people that are like the survivors, the attainers, the high performers. Now this is where your career is made. Are careers made like because things went well and you were taking orders or careers like made when you can tell the story about how tough it was and what you did to make it through that becomes this inspiring leadership thing that, that again, many sales leaders fail to paint the picture of what's happening now. Is tough. But imagine what it's going to be like in 6, 12, and 24 months. And what you're going to learn out of this. Now you get people that are like, okay, I get it, but I understand the mission. Daniel Pink AUTHOR OF Drive Yep. Autonomy. You people are driven. You know, it's autonomy, mastery, purpose. Autonomy, mastery, purpose.

Right?

So when you can think about your leadership during tough times in how you're instilling autonomy, mastery, and purpose, those are good, Good, you know, those are good, you know, compasses, I guess, to lead through tough times with those that are remaining on your team.

It was the hardest. It was the hardest month and one of the best months in my entire leadership career, which was April of 2020.

Oh, my God.

When I unfortunately had to say Goodbye to over 65% of my sales org.

Crazy.

We were cruising. We hadn't missed in months. That org had gone from 40 people to over 170 people in under two years. Like, cruising. And then we hit a wall, right? And the decision was made. And that was the hardest thing I've literally ever had to do as a leader, ever.

Oh, yeah.

Then the flip side of the team that was there, I also will not getting goosebumps even talking about it. How they stuck and how they rallied together. Right? So we. We had two themes. The first was rise. We're going to rise through this. We're going to rise up. We Operation Rise. And we had all these different things we could to get each other through it. But the second, and this is what you were talking about too, is better or bitter. We can come out of this better or we can come out of this bitter. It's up to us. Because God damn it, y', all, if we can sell during this, do you understand exactly what that will mean for you in the career? But you need to make sure that you're actually coming out of this better. Or are you coming out of this just bitter? Because if you can close at 20% now, do you know how well you're gonna close when things do get better? When things do turn around with things and really getting people to focus on funny enough. And I thought it was pink. I think it might be in the book or he talks about it later. One of the other main motivators is progress, right? Where like. And it kind of falls into the mastery bucket. But at the same time, progress is that I am progressing is a key motivator of like, as long as I'm making progress, I'm not perfect, but I'm making progress. All right. I'm at 19%. Can I get to 19.2? Can I make four extra calls this month? Can I get one extra up? Like, showing that progress became one of our big focus of, like, yeah, we're not perfect, but look, y' all making progress. Yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there. And so. So as we kind of start to wrap through this, right, Like, I'm going to bring it back to the leader side. We've kind of talked about, like, how to lead, but I want to talk about how to be a leader. How do you encourage, you know, the companies you're working with and the people you're working with to make decisions during tough times? Fear does, right? The three Fs of fear, fight, flight, or fear or, sorry, freeze. Right? Fight, flight, freeze. So some people make fight decisions or they just go out fighting, right? And it's just, all right. And that goes one way. Or they flight, they leave, or they just send everything away or they freeze. They do nothing. So how do you encourage them to make decisions during tough times? Because eventually you got to make a decision. How do you walk them through that?

Well, let me. Let me paint a picture then, for you to help you think about how I think about this, and I'll tell you my story after you tell yours. It was March 2020 when the started hitting the fan. You knew things were difficult at patient pop KD in March of 2020, probably even in February 2020, it started kicking in. Right? How long did it take before y' all actually got rid of 65% of your team? How long did it take, like, from when you were like, should we do something? And the sales people are going, things have changed very, very quickly until the day you had to make those cuts. How long did that take?

Well, we'll air some things out here. Because it took 14 days, we went fully remote. March 15th.

Yep.

April 1st is when the riff occurred. And we actually hadn't seen much of a slowdown yet. The slowdown for us actually happened more in April and May. This was a preemptive decision that got made. But at that moment, it went from, hey, we see where things are going about March 15th is March 18th. The decision was made going into April 1st.

Yeah. And what were the sales people saying? March 1st, March 10th, March 20th. They didn't know what was coming, but they felt some ripple effects. What were the sales people saying to you during that period of time and to your manager?

We're getting way more push off on deals. More people are just kind of saying, no, we want to wait it out. We're getting more and more people on the phone saying, hey. Like, no. Actually, funny enough. Again, I'll share this too. I made a post about this, and it's the only time in my career that I've had a leader ask me to take a post down. Only time in my entire career. But I made a post that I had told our whole outbound team to pause for the day because we were making cold calls and they were getting ripped to shreds on these calls. It was that same week. It was actually March 12th and 13th. Like, they're making these cold calls. And, like, the tone had changed completely of, like, so quickly. Do you know what's going on? Are you. You're calling me right now. Do you know I can't even open my practice? Like, that was the big one. I remember calling like, yo, quick pause. We gotta figure out how to navigate this better. And then one of our senior leaders reached out like, hey, like, we just don't want people thinking things are bad. I'm like, okay. That was the big one. Was like, so deals were getting pushed, deals were getting in weight. But then the prospecting, that's where we saw the biggest shift in, like, there.

You go, there you go. And then what did these SDRs, BDRs start saying to your leaders? Like, hey, we're getting hammered here. What did they start saying? Did they start saying things like, hey, what's this going to mean for us? Are you going to lower our quotas? What's happening next? Are we, you know, are there going to be layoffs? So did they start saying that stuff?

So, no, they didn't get any of those later ones. Because you got to remember, these were the glory days of sas. No one had experienced a tough time. Like, that wasn't even a thought for most people in terms of layoffs. Didn't get asked at all. That actually caught everybody off.

No kidding. Okay.

Everybody but the quota reduction questions were coming in of, like, hey, like, how am I gonna hit my quota? Like, how? I can't. Like, I can't even talk to anybody. They're pushing off, like, what are we going to do here? And interestingly enough, I did make a request of, like, based off how our conversion rate metrics and everything are affecting. We may need to make an adjustment here. Right. Because otherwise we can lose people. Right. And we won't be able to maintain through this. But, yeah, that was it. Quota.

Yeah, exactly. So are just like, same as you. The business I was in at the time just all of a sudden just fell off a table. And the sales reps, I mean, you know, we had 550 and they were, they were saying, hey, what's happening? Are you going to lower my quotas and are there going to be layoffs? And the, you know, behind the scenes, we're, as a leadership team, we're talking about what we should be doing. And at one point, one of the senior, you know, C level people came to me and said, you know, we were talking this through and just off the cuff said, you know, kg, just, you know, let me know what you, you know, how I can help you. And I said, stop. Before you get off of the call, I'm going to tell you exactly how you can help me. We make this decision and execute on it very quickly. Because what happens on the sales floor is that the sales reps start wondering what's happening? What's going to happen? What's happened to me? Am I going to get laid off? Is my quota going to go down? Is my quota going to go up? You know what, what is going to happen? And that uncertainty. This is, I'm getting to the answer to your question. Finally. That uncertainty, Kevin, on the sales floor is the exact reason why I advocate that my sales leaders and the CEOs that I coach do your best to make your decisions as quick as possible. Because that water cooler bs, and I say water cooler because it's on slack now, water cooler BS is actually very destructive to the team. And so when you can make tough decisions quicker, they may not be perfect decisions. No one's going to make a perfect decision, but you can, but make it quicker. So make it as quick as you possibly, possibly can. We had to lay off 45 of our sales team and that was a massive number at the time. And it was one of the worst days, of course, in, in my life as well. Looking down a spreadsheet with names and people didn't even know what was, you know, they, but, but that, but that undercurrent of uncertainty was awful. Okay, so, so Katie, that's number one. Number two, this I learned from one of my favorite leaders I've ever worked for. His name is Jeff Zwelling. He's currently over at StubHub. To are, create two. Are there two way doors here? Are there two way doors with this, you know, with this decision? Okay, can you create a decision such that you can walk back from it easily or, or not? And if you can't walk back from it, then you want to spend deciding Whether or not it's the right, you know, decision or, or not. One of my most recent clients, they were going to make hires and they're like, but things have changed very, very quickly. And we've got these three new hires that are coming on board. There's this ops hire that we're going to make and then a manager to be named later. Kg, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And I said to the CEO, first thing you do is you unwind those offer letters to the three people that have signed those offer letters. And she goes, oh my God, that's so awful. I'm like, right, it's awful. But that's the right thing to do for your business. And you'd better do that now before they start. And then you do it two weeks later. Like don't, like, think through that. And then I said, this player, this manager to be named later. You don't have this manager hire, don't do that hire. What about this operations hire? It doesn't generate revenue, right? But think six to 12 months down the line, is your business going to be better or worse by having this operations hire. Make things more efficient with the resources that you have left over after getting rid of some of these people and seeing some of the, you know, the attrition there. And so the decision making. Make your decisions as quickly as possible. Decide whether or not this is going to be, you know, impactful to your business or not. And sometimes, you know, you got to be nice, but not that nice. And so, you know, unwinding these offer letters and going, that's the right thing for the business. Because you know what, cash is king if you're the CEO and heads of sales should think this way too, by the way. You know, even though you may not be on a P L, you should think to yourself, cash is king. Cash flow for our business is key. So you know, I need to make these cuts. Can I, can I help sustain the business? And there's, there's so many variables to this. But make, make your decision. Look for your two way doors when you're making those, making those decisions. And remember, you know, cash is king because if you're out of cash, you're out of business and everybody goes, yeah, no, it's hard.

And these are the unfortunate, harsh realities of business as much as, like, and it does, it does, it sucks. Sucks when it happens. Sucks to be a part of it, right? Like it's awful, but it is part of business, right? Like, we can't praise Capitalism on one side, but then ignore the demons on the other side.

Yeah, yeah. This CEO had to call her sales manager who was on vacation in Hawaii to tell him to tell the three people where he had made offers that the offer is now null and void. It is what it is.

It sucks. The only difference I would make there is I would make those calls. I wouldn't put that on my people. I would make that call like as if I'm making that decision. I'm gonna make those calls because I just don't know that that's fair to the manager who didn't make that decision to go through. Because also, this is a whole other topic. That manager has no idea how to have that conversation. No idea how to have that conversation.

Oh, it's so tough.

And that, that's setting people up to fail there. So let's, we're gonna flip the topic here real quick as we wrap, right, to kind of a high note, right, because the name of this podcast is Live Better Sell Better. Right, Because I also have this weird idea that if we took better care of ourselves, had more energy, had more joy, had more fulfillment, that the sales would improve. What would your parting Live better advice be to people listening?

All right, well, listen, man, I'm the old guy, right? I'm 52 years old. I've been selling since 1994. And I tell you what I wish, you know, KD, this is the equivalent of saying, you know, what would you say to your 25 year old self? You know, that's the equivalent. Okay. I made a lot of sacrifices in my personal life in favor of success at work. And that was, you know, that was working out, that was eating better, that was drinking less. These are things, you know, and blowing off family and friends, you know, So I would say that my learning lesson is, is, is focus on your family and friends. You know, there's, there's things that you think you have to do to stay at 10, you know, Ms. A meeting, sorry, miss a dinner with, and, and, you know, stay at work. I, I, it's not a sacrifice I'm willing to make any longer. And I think, I think that people in the working world now, kd, I think get that for the most part, but there's still people that, and I don't hate on the hustle culture at all, by the way. I'm not a, I'm not a quiet quitter or anything like that. But, but you just make sure you draw lines and prioritize your family and friends and those relationships can make you healthy, you know, that is a, you know, that is healthy to be around people that, that you love and that, and that love you. Yes, of course, you know, work out more, eat better, drink less. Like, these are all platitudes and like, of course we know we need to do those things. But my learning lesson, KG KD is, is about. I would have focused more on family and friends than I did. I made a lot of sacrifices way back then that I wish I had not have had not made. And now it's like, you know, I'm 52 and not that I regret anything, but I certainly wish that I had strengthened a lot, a lot of those other relationships that I sacrificed for God knows what. I don't even remember what things at work I had to do that were more important than, than going to see, you know, my daughter play soccer or have dinner with my family. I don't know what it was. And that's really kind of the point.

Yeah. And I love that as a call out, as someone who's gone through it, because it's hard when you're in it. You don't notice what you're saying yes and no to, like you're just in it. And you don't realize that, wow, that's three missed dinners this week. Or that I'm not going to that soccer game. I missed the season. Right. And just adds up for what? Right versus taking that time to be present. Right. Like my whole thing when I talk with people who are busy in time is like, intention is more important than attention. Five minutes of intention is better than 30 minutes of attention. So if you are short on time, just be that full. When I walk out this office with the intention of making my daughters laugh, that could be 30 seconds. But those 30 seconds have the intention of making them laugh or bringing joy. Whereas you could be at dinner but still not be present. You could be at dinner still with no intention. So it's like living with that intention is so, so important. So, kg, my man, where can people find more of you? Where are you putting out content? Where can they follow you? How can they get more KG in their lives?

Well, just follow me on LinkedIn. I think the username is Kevin Gaither. It's not hard to find Kevin Gaither. I think there's only one of us out there. So that's, that's the primary place. But you can find me on, you know, Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, all over the place. But the primary place where I'm. Where you can find me is on is on LinkedIn. And I love help people. I say it now and I'll say it again. Reach out to me. I'd be happy to get on a call and help you out with something for free.

And.

And we'll go, go, go from there. If you need something deeper, find me on LinkedIn. Appreciate you having me on KD.

For sure, my man. Go find him. Go connect. Go ask the questions. Right? And you'll be prepared to get real answers too. There's no fluff here, and that's the beauty of it. So, kg, my man, thank you so much. I appreciate you, dude.

Thanks for having me on. Peace out.