Rachel Nazhand on why operations teams fail: they get stuck in admin work instead of strategy. She explains how to turn data into stories that sales leaders actually listen to, and why shadowing your frontline keeps you from building things nobody needs.
Chapters
Every company has breakdowns in their revenue process. Sure thing. Deals slip into next quarter, competitors creep in and swipe deals away at the last minute, and deals getting single threaded that don't get to power. These are just a few examples of revenue leak, but there are a ton more and they're preventing your team from reaching their sales targets. That's why I'm such a big fan of Clary's Revenue platform is the only tool that actually helps leaders take control of their revenue and thrive through any market conditions, especially when things get tough. You can't afford to miss a single detail, but you also can't be leading by gut. Clary combines the science and the art of sales and sales leadership. So go to clary.com if you want to answer the most important question in your business. Are you going to meet, beat or miss on revenue?
Welcome to the live Better Sell Better podcast with your host Kevin Dorsey of Inside Sales Excellence, the number one Patreon group and YouTube channel for tech sellers and tech sales leaders, where we dive in deep for tactical advice on how to book more meetings, close more deals faster, and lead sales teams to success. But we don't stop there. We also focus on the person in salesperson. We talk about mindset goals, time management and so much more. So thank you for listening and if you're interested, head on over to patreon.com InsideSalesExCexcellence now with that, grab a notepad, get ready, and let's dive into the good stuff.
Every ops leader I've sat down with when we hired new ops people, this was like one of the first things I would sit down with them and talk about, which is I don't need the data from you. I don't need the information from you. I need the insights from the information. I need the diamonds and the data. What are you seeing?
Right?
What do you see that I don't see? Because if all you're doing is providing me data, I can go get data on my own. What are the diamonds in the data? What are the insights? Where are the trends? What are you catching? Right? And so I'm going to say this is a different direction. I want you speaking to now to revops people for a second. How do you communicate these things? Like, how do you communicate these insights? How do you communicate what you're seeing to an obnoxious, borderline, maybe aggressive, slightly narcissistic sales leader like myself? Right? Like, how do you communicate some of that? Right? Because sales sales leaders especially, maybe not as much in CS or marketing, but like Kind of have our ideas and like, this is what we want. How do you kind of challenge, push back or provide some insights or blind spots to an executive leader?
That is the difference between admin and systems work and strategy and operations work. Admin type work is. I've pulled a report for you. We have 15 leads at the top of funnel. We have 13 leads in the middle of the funnel and blah, blah, blah. Strategy and operations and insight work is. We have 15 leads at the top of the funnel. They are a certain type of profile. The buyers all look a little bit different than they did six months ago. I don't know if there's a leading indicator that we've entered a new market or if this is a warning sign that all of this is going to fall off later. That's the difference. It's storytelling. And if you're an operator and you've not invested in your ability to become an amazing storyteller, you are missing out. And you can get those skills from your sales leaders, your sales enablement teams. You can get that from product teams. There's a lot of different places you can go, but be a storyteller. And it's laddering up the why. So you look at it and you say, what is this telling me and why? Okay, peel back layer. What is this telling me and why? Peel back a layer. And it's just you constantly digging and then it's, it's comparing against do I have an apples to apples. But it's also being careful about your denominator. It's hard to tell a story when you have two characters. Right? That's a pretty flat story. And so if you look at it and you're saying all of our, all of our, all of our opportunities are worth $150,000, we should model all of our future revenue forecasts on 150k deals. Are they really $150,000 opportunities? Or do you have two that are $150,000 and you just, you know, you've just built your sales team and that's a false flag that that's where you're going and it's, I could keep pulling that dread. But the point is, you come to the table as a storyteller, you really get curious about what you're looking at. Always figure, make sure that the quality is good. Everybody's going to scream about dirty data. You can do a lot with dirty data too. Just you got to dig a little deeper. And then do you have enough evidence to say that this is real or is this an indicator of where we're going to go and we're going to keep an eye on it. And so it's just figuring out how to be that. That partner. And you're not just chucking reports out there and you're just looking for the outliers and you're doing these. These pretty basic things to make sure you've got. You've got something interesting to share.
Yeah. Now, I love. I was. While you're talking, I was looking around somewhere on the bookshelf right now I have a book that's liter storytelling with data. And I'm trying to find it because it was. It was something where, like, how to communicate data in a story and how to craft it. And I love the way that you put of, like, you know, the what and the why. The what and the why and kind of connecting those dots. But where this brought me as I'm listening though, is like, how do you make sure for your teams that they also stay close to reality? Because the flip side also happens sometimes, right? Where I go to Rev Ops and I'm telling them how to do their job, and they're like, yo, Katie, stop it. The flip side also comes sometimes where Rev Ops is telling sales or CS or marketing how to do their job without being connected to reality, right? Where it's like, hey, yeah, actually, if we just, you know, doubled our acv, we'll be fine.
Oh, did you know who just closed a deal? We'll make more money.
Like, oh, that's all I have to do, right? Like, yeah, oh, yeah. We. We built this into the model. We just lifted ACV by 30%. Cause will get us on pace. So, like, how do you make sure that Rev Ops and Biz Ops are staying also connected to reality? Like, and I'll share this real quick story and then let you go onto it. But, like, one of the things I would have my ops team do at least once a quarter was the goal. Sometimes it would slip because they get busy. Shadow two of my reps because you'll see things that go, wait, you're. Your team is using it like this. Your team is like. So I loved getting them in the trenches sometimes just to watch because they were going to find some things. But, like, what did you do for your teams to, like, keep them connected to reality, Right? Where it's like, okay, this is the realness that's happening.
Mm. It's empathy building. And I was laughing. I was wondering if you'd get there. It's. Everybody thinks everyone else's job is easier. It's. I don't know if it's a human nature, there's probably some psychology there. But if you're not on, if you're not in those calls, you know, sideline coaching, right? Like, anybody can sit on the sideline and say, how did you miss that shot? It feels so easy. But when you're in those shoes, it's hard. And so you got to build that empathy. And so we, I mean, there's, you can use your conversation intelligence tools, you can kind of get snippets along the way. But I also encourage the ride alongs like you mentioned, like join a call, try to explain a contract to someone. Does it make sense to you? If not, let's change it. And you can do that across the organization. And I would actually challenge anybody who's listening. If you haven't done this with every team, even not just the ones that are beside you, you can learn a lot that you didn't realize. And to do it, to go in and just listen with no agenda. So I always, I kind of have this framework that I use which is if you're gonna figure out what someone's doing, flatter them first. Katie, you are so good at hosting podcasts. You make me feel so comfortable. I'm gonna ask you the next question. How did you get so good at this? You'll probably tell me a great story. Why do you do it the way you do? You're going to sprinkle in these things that maybe you didn't even know you were doing. Well, I do it this way because I read a bunch of books that told me that this is how you get the best conversation from someone. Then you ask them, how can I borrow some of the things that make you great? So if I'm talking to a salesperson, the way I prep for all of my calls is I look at the last three things they posted on LinkedIn and then I try to find them on social media to see if there's something they're interested in. And then I use that to create great rapport. Okay. Now as an operator, I'm going to start thinking, if that's really working for my top seller, is there a piece of that I can replicate across the board for everyone? Right. I've learned something new. I've built some empathy. I've figured out someone's secret sauce. Now how can I start to sprinkle that out? And I've gone a little bit away from your topic, but building empathy is what makes someone amazing at their job. Versus good at their job. And so how do you connect back to the reality? Right, that's how we got here. You connect back to the reality to say if I were in their shoes could I do it that way? And it's kind of going back. It's watching to see something in action and being willing to be wrong as well. I think we're all so excited to introduce something and have it land that our ego gets attached to it. And so it's iterating in pieces and being willing to be wrong and figuring out is theoretical or is this actually happening? So I don't know how much that's answered the question but it's actually taking a step out of your role and watching something in practice and then being willing to say oops, that didn't quite work. But what did we learn? Take the learning, put it on the shelf, do something else, maybe you'll come back to it.
