Living that SDR Life with Charolette Johnson

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You'Re interested, head on over to patreon.com InsideSalesExCexcellence now with that, grab a notepad, get ready and let's dive into the good stuff. What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the live Better Sell Better podcast. This is your host Kevin Dorsey, AKA kd. And today we're going to try to get into the mind of a buyer. Because unfortunately across the sales industry, most sellers don't actually even use the tools that they sell. Which is actually one of the biggest reasons why I think so many salespeople struggle. Because if you don't use it, how can you explain it? If you don't use it, how can you actually sell it? And not nearly enough time is spent getting to know the prospect and getting to know their buying process, right? And so that is why I'm so pumped to have Charlotte Johnson with me today. Because she's a top performing str sales loft. She gets to use the product that she sells while targeting overwhelmed, crazy busy VPs of sales like me. And because she's still in the trenches, working, tweaking, testing, she's finding ways to break through, stand out and book more meetings because she thinks like a buyer. And today she's going to teach Us how to do the same. Charlotte Johnson, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

I'm pumped.

Like, I love.

I love having SDRs and AES on the show because y' all are living it. You're actually doing it. It's not fluff, it's not hypothetical. It's not someone like me sitting in an ivory tower saying, this is what you should do. You're actually doing it. And so I'm pumped to dive into this, because thinking like a buyer is not what enough people think about, unfortunately, and I've said this for many years now, that I believe prospect knowledge trumps product knowledge. But so much onboarding is about the product. So let's talk about the prospect today. So, like, as an SDR, what do you believe SDRs should know about their buyers?

Yeah, I mean, I've only just started probably thinking about this in the past maybe, like, four months. And it's after speaking to a lot of sales leaders as well. So if we think about our buyers inbox, all the emails that they're getting from all these different SDRs and sales people, their phones, all the calls they're getting, their LinkedIn is so overwhelmed. So I'm constantly thinking, how can I stand out from this huge sea of sales reps who are emailing our buyers? And I think from speaking to people and from doing the SDR role for quite a number of years now, I've kind of found a few patterns that I think we all naturally do as SDRs, which is preventing us from actually booking meetings successfully. So things like, we've all adapted this similar framework and structure to our calls, to our emails, to our LinkedIn messages. That makes us sound really salesy. Right? Hi, this is Charlotte from SalesLog. Can I have 30 seconds to explain to you why I'm reaching out to you? Like, we've all adapted and merged into, like, a single outreach. So I noticed this from, like, looking at, for example, our CRO's inbox. It was all exactly the same, like, hi, how are you? Hi, first name. How are you doing? I'm reaching out because. And it just starts to merge into one after you're seeing all this stuff. So I think, number one, think of it from your buyer's shoes. Like, what does that inbox look like? And how can we stand out from this?

I think that's key. And I want to take a step back because it's not a question I think enough SDRs actually ask themselves, which is, how can I stand out? They don't take that step and go Even to think through that or to look at an inbox and go, hey, like, wait, it does all sound the same. It's been interesting. I had one of my senior leaders leave earlier this year, so all of his emails get forwarded to me too. So it's also hilarious how many emails that are identical to me and my former director at the same time from the same rep saying the exact same things. And so you said one thing was thinking about the inbox. But I want to take one step back to kind of the original question, right. It's like, what should SDRs know about their buyer? Right. So the first tip was like, what their inbox looks like. But what else? Like, what do you try to understand about a VP of sales? Then it probably then helps things as you're going after their inbox and LinkedIn.

Yeah. So I think we need to understand our IC as a step one before we even reach out. You need to understand your icp, what their actual challenges are. And by challenges, I don't mean like how much ROI your company increases their success by. These aren't challenges. These are kind of like outcomes. Yeah, we can help you. Three times your pipeline, it's not a challenge. Sounds nice, but it's not a challenge. They're not going to wake up and be like, guys, I really need to. Three times my pipeline today. It's just not the. It just doesn't happen. But a lot of come. I was really lucky in Salesloft. Like we have extensive training on the Persona, the challenges in the day to day in a life of a marketer or a salesperson or someone in sales ops. So I was really lucky in the fact that I was almost like given all of this information that I can use. But if you're not necessarily as lucky, you can find all this out yourself. You can look on like G2. G2. You get word to word language of what customers are saying they like. And it's really easy for us as SDRs to get in the trap of overcomplicating things. Right. And put my hand up. I did it at Sales Loft. When you look at GT reviews, it's things like efficiency. I want my reps to do more activity. So actually reading things like that we understand what our buyers actually care about. So there's G2. I look at careers pages so much to understand what are their roles and responsibilities and they start to merge into one. If you think of the SDR role and it's always like outbound activity, multichannel reporting in Salesforce and it all starts to blend. So looking at that as well, and then my favorite one is case studies. I don't think we look at our own case studies enough. So looking at the challenges that I mentioned in the case studies and not necessarily saying it word for word because sometimes it might sound a bit jargony, but trying to simplify that.

That'S gold. Is it funny? It was two months ago now. I told my entire SDR, I said, for the next 30 days, I want you to read and listen to at least one testimonial a day. Just one a day. Because we have them, but we're not even listening to them. And it also helps reinforce the belief in your product when you're listening to people talk about it positively. Because as an sdr, as you well know, a lot of your conversations aren't positive. And so that can beat you down a little bit. That can make you maybe lose faith in it versus if you listen to the good that's happening as well, I think you get so much more out of it. And you started to touch on it because you're starting to use how language. Right. My problem might be Pipeline, but how come it's a problem? Right. And those are some of the touch points. So now you've learned some of these things, then what? Okay, so you've read G2, you've been on career pages, you've read some cases, you've learned this language. How. How is my favorite word. Right. My managers know this too. I don't care about the what. How are we going to do it? How do you apply that to then stand out?

Yeah. So I think this links onto the research where you need to be researching your prospects. And there's probably four go to areas that maybe five. Yeah, five I go to when I'm researching someone and it comes really quick for me. So me standing out becomes actually a really scalable task. And although people send me being like this is amazing and personalized, I've not actually spent that much time on them because I'm only using these five areas. So I think don't over research. But the five areas I use is firstly, Salesforce, which can be easily forgotten. Have they had any past opportunities or activities? And if they are, if they have, I can touch on this. I'll understand their structure way more than me looking on their website or me looking on their careers page or their structure on LinkedIn. So Salesforce or whatever CRM you're using, just make sure you understand the past conversations because there might be some great nuggets of information there. Secondly, LinkedIn profile, rarely is there amazing golds and nuggets on there. If there are, I'll use it because for example me, I post on LinkedIn all the time and this is what I care about. So if you reach out to me and talk to me about one of my posts, I'm going to care about it and the same as other people. So LinkedIn profile and the last three are my favorites, probably because I use Salesforce. But a lot of the accounts I'm going for aren't opportunities, right? And a lot of them won't have anything on their LinkedIn and I think that's quite normal. So function on Sales Navigator, I want to understand what their structure, their sales structure looks like, maybe what their marketing structure looks like. Or if you're selling to it, have a look at what their IT structure looks like. Are they really developed? Are they really maybe like premature in their development. But for me I want to understand what their sales structure looks like. Are they SDR heavy? And I can start to create hypotheses from this. If they have a big SDR team, it tells me that they have a focus on pipeline, whereas if they have a really big AE team, they might be either managing loads of deals or managing complex deals. And then I can start to create challenges from this. Right? So function section on Sales Navigator. Then I'm going to look on their website, I'm going to look at case studies. Who are they selling to and what are they selling? For me, if someone's selling to it or if they're selling to enterprise or whatever Persona I know, for example, enterprise is way harder for you to get hold of a decision maker and enterprise company, it's like 65% less likely. So I can use that as my personalization and it takes maybe like a minute less than that to understand who they sell to and what they sell comes over time. I don't naturally get it immediately, but it comes to you over time. And then finally this is my favorite ever research and you'll find out next episode. Just kidding. Is the Careers page. The Careers page is absolutely gold and I absolutely love it. You can firstly see from an overview, where are they putting their budget? Are they putting it in marketing? Are they putting it in their DevOps team? Maybe they're developing a product. You can really start to see where they're attributing their revenue. Right? You can then look on if they're senior people that they're hiring. So for example, for me, if they're hiring A VP of sales. Usually it'll tell me what their strategy is moving forward. We want to hire this person because we have an aggressive growth goal and we want to penetrate into new markets. Okay, great. I literally know their goal, right? And then also, what is their day to day responsibilities or what is their team's day to day responsibilities? So if they're hiring SDRs, what are their SDRs doing? And I can start to pick all this information out and really start to personalize my outreach. But me going through all these things maybe takes about five to 10 minutes max.

I mean, first of all, color me impressed. That is phenomenal. Like, I got like, how did you learn to do all that? Was that taught to you? You're just a naturally curious person. You kind of figured this out. Like, that's absolutely amazing. That's the way you should go about it. But we also know Damn well most STRs do not. So like, where did that all come from to you to be able to put all that together and get it done quickly? Because you also know strs love to use research as a procrastination.

I've been there, right? I've been there. And it takes time. You don't wake up and you don't turn into an amazing sdr. I've an SDR for about three years now, and it's taken time and persistence. Also, like asking people, I speak to so many other sales leaders and other SDRs and other AES and I like to find out what's working for them. But also reaching out to some of our US colleagues who I know are performing well. How did you book your recent meeting? What was the messaging? How did you research them and stuff like that. So I'm constantly reaching out to people to understand a better process. And then once I found it, I can then implicate it across all of my prospecting. But I also got a lot of help from Salesloft as well. But then not taking what the company tell you to research as that's what you have to. You can also do your own as well.

The personal ownership is. I don't. I can't say it's getting less and less, but it's like few people seem to take that personal ownership. It's like, oh, well, the company didn't train me enough or the company training was bad. But it's like, well, okay, help, help figure it out. What is out there, what is working, what needs to be improved. And you touched on something. When I joined Patient Pop almost three years ago, the first thing I Did is I sat down, had a one on one with every single rep, every rep, asking them like, you know, okay, what's good, what's bad, what are the challenges? What would they improve? And things of that nature. And one of the patterns that popped up, and I love that you brought up patterns because I think pattern recognition is something that is one of the best skill sets you can build. If you can pick up patterns quickly, you can adapt faster. But the number one pattern across all the top performers is they reached out to the top performers before them and they learned and they studied and they researched them and not enough SDRs do that. And I think it's just such a missed opportunity because they're there. Most salespeople will help you, right? You got. You're not taking away from their success. And so I love that you mentioned that as well. And so then now let's go to the next piece of this. Right? Okay. So we have started to learn the buyer. You've done the research. How then do you craft messaging that stands out? How do you make sure you don't sound just like everybody else that's reaching out to them? Right? Because like the. Hi, how are you? My name's Charlotte. I was just on. And they're like, all right, I'm already out of here. Right. So like, how do you then craft it to a great email or phone call?

Yeah. So step one, I go back to that thought. What does my buyers inbox look like? And I'm sure if you reach out to your Persona and you ask them, which is what I do, they'll be really open about it. Be like, look, I'm looking to learn and I want to stand out from all the other salespeople. Messaging, you know, would you mind spending five minutes with me on a quick call to understand what would actually stand out in your eyes? Germany sales leaders I've spoken to even before joining Sales law to understand their challenges. Like so many, they're like, yeah, put an hour in my calendar because they want to help. So I think reach out to people also. You probably have your Persona inside your company, right. Ask to look at their calls. What are they getting a lot of? How can you stand out? So I try and think of that and you can kind of see a few trends like subject lines. How can we make them stand out? For example, capital letter at the front. It's a small thing, but if you look at subject lines, they're all capital letter first. How can we make them not look spammy? So something I like to do In a subject line is I use the personalization. So baseball fan and. And the challenge that I'm solving. Right. So baseball fan and nagging reps to update Salesforce. And it's just. It doesn't look like an automated email. I've obviously personalized it so that subject line make it stand out. And then the body of it. How can I change the structure so people are going to want to read it? And I've even recently stopped putting hi first name. I'll literally be like scrolling on your careers page right now. First name. And I'll start with that. And then found this really interesting. Look. You're hiring a bunch of SDRs. Job spec talks about this and I'll quote it or screenshot it. I had a quick question and I usually like to use a video. But if you don't want to use a video, you can literally say after you've mentioned what you found interesting. Maybe your hypothesis. This means that maybe your focus is on generating pipeline. Could be completely wrong. And then just write the challenge which I'll put in real, real simple words. And I usually use a question that a lot of sales leaders when they have this focus, which I've mentioned above, the number one question they're asking me is how can I get all 50 to 60 of my sales reps following the same prospecting process when they're doing their outbound activity? Number of touches, keeping it personalized. Also giving me insight into what's actually working. Wondering if this is a question on your mind right now, Charlotte.

I love it. I love it. And that I'm going to go try it. I'm going to go try this and test it. Because I have not gotten rid of first the first line. I don't know why I've never even thought to try that. Because it's true. Because we use very similar messaging. Like I'm on your website right now. I'm googling your practice right now. Drop the formality. Drop the high. Hey, whatever. And just like I love that. I love that. Well done.

To get yourself out of this rhythm that all sales reps are. And it is really. It almost comes like you become a robot and it becomes second nature. So don't be afraid to have a brainstorming session with your sales team. We always do it. We're like, are we being too jargony? Let's share the messaging we're sending. Pick it apart. I don't have to do this role by myself. I have an incredible set of team members that I can share stuff With. So work with them on some banging messaging that you can try, test, fail, maybe, and try again.

I love. That's funny enough behind me here. I always keep this hat, right? It's my sales. My sales hat. Right. But it's for the opposite reason.

Right.

What I generally use is, like, I tell people, like, take their sales hat off for a second, speak like a human being. Like, read that email. If that was sent to you, how would you feel? Would you feel anything at all? Or is it so bland that you literally feel nothing? Which is almost worse. I'd rather have someone respond back negatively like, yo, this email was awful, versus, like, not anything. Like, this wasn't even worth my time. And so now you touched on something I'm a huge believer in. I literally just had a webinar about it last week. Video. I believe video is like, I can't even say the future because I think the video. Video is now. Just not enough people do it. Right. And so for people listening, I get probably on the low end, 10 sales emails a day. On the low end, sometimes higher. I get four to five LinkedIn messages per day from reps trying to connect or send messages or inmails. I get maybe maybe two videos a month. Maybe.

Yeah.

And it's like that already. Like, you can stand out just by being one of the two that do it. And I think it's. We use video heavily here. So you talked, you said, I love video, but if you don't, then go do this. How do you leverage video? Because I think that is. I think that's a foundational skill that everyone needs to build.

Yeah. I think, firstly, don't overthink it. My first video I sent sucked. It was so bad. And I posted it on LinkedIn. It was so bad. I was actually pitching at this poor person. Like, you're the VP of sales. This is your challenge. This is how we help. And it was awful. But you get better at everything. My first cold call was crap, My first cold email was crap, and my first discovery was crap. And you start to improve over time. Right? And I think video is so great because it's just a chance for you to show your personality. So don't have a video and don't pitch to the person. Make sure you're getting your personality through. And I use it to be more engaging. So what I've recently been doing is I've stopped having a video with a whiteboard, which I think is becoming maybe a bit gimmicky. I've seen them quite a lot better than not using a video. And I was watching some of mine back and I was thinking I'm recording a video for 30 seconds on my face. My face is not that engaging that someone wants to watch that for 30 seconds, right? So what I started doing on Vidyard is sharing my screen. So I'll share my screen on their careers page or on their LinkedIn profile and show them the research that I've done. Like, look, your recent funding. You've literally written in it that you want to be investing this money in new markets. When looking at your careers page, you're then hiring a lot of SDRs in all these new markets and I'm running them through it as I go along. So I think sharing the screen is good. I don't introduce myself either. I don't see the point. I think they can see my name's Charlotte and I'm from sales law for my email. So I go straight into it. I'll literally be like Katie, scrolling on your careers page right now while I'm showing it. So I use a three step structure which anybody can implicate immediately, right? And the first bit is personalization. The second bit I'm going to highlight a challenge or a question. I love asking a question. Like this is the question that a lot of sales leaders ask. I'm not going to use jargony terms in this question or challenge. And the third bit is a question and it might sound something like the personalization. I'm scrolling on your careers page and I can see you're hiring a bunch of account executives. The job spec talks about prospecting and closing deals. I'm guessing that like most days then they're neglecting this prospect. In part, the typical question that a lot of sales leads will ask me is how can I actually get firstly my AES to prospect consistently but secondly, how can I get them following the same prospecting process? Wondering question, wondering if this is something you're thinking of or wondering if any of these questions are currently on your mind. And that's it. Three really simple steps.

And I love it, right? Short, simple, to the point, but it is engaging. And that's where people, they do they overthink video so much, right? We talked like when we first really started ramping up video, people were like re recording the video like three or four times. I was like, yo, end it and send it. That's it, end it, send it. If you messed up, lean into it, embrace it, call it out, Just be like the human element in sales continues to get worse and Worse and worse as we have more and more automation. And I think, like, that's not. That's not what Salesloft was created to do, right? Like most people, I was one of Salesloft's first customers. Like, they didn't even have automated steps back then. That wasn't the point. It was to just make it easier to send personalized steps and organize everything. And it's gotten to a place where that's why everyone sounds the same. Cause they're using the same sequences and cadences with the same messaging, the same Personas, and blasting it out with. No. This is what frustrates me with the industry is I'm easy to find. I have so much content out there. There are endless opportunities to personalize your messaging to me. And even I don't get personalized messages. And if I'm not getting personalized messages, I know then everyone else isn't either. That's just. It's such a shame because you can stand out way easier. Now, I gotta ask you a different question here because it's come up in a few of your answers where, like, you don't seem to have, like, a fear of failure. Like, you're willing to test and to try and admit that something sucked and then do it again. Like, where. Like, where does this resiliency come from? Right? Like, you had a horrible video and you posted about it. Forget hiding in a corner and never doing video again. Like, you leaned into it. Like, where. Like, where does this resiliency come from? Because I think that's something that also to a lot of SDRs, either they miss or they lose. Like, one thing goes wrong, they never do it again, or they never drew video again and they never tried the script again because it didn't work the one time. Whereas you're like, bouncing back and testing and tweaking. Like, so I guess it's going, like, the personal route a little bit. Like, where does that resiliency come from for you? Like, how have you developed?

I think you just got to think in order for you to get better at something, you need to, firstly, be feeling uncomfortable, put yourself in uncomfortable positions, and secondly, you probably have to fail and make a few mistakes. I was really bad at the STR role when I first started, but I was so determined to get better and looking. Even in my first job, I progressed so much, but it was really uncomfortable how I had to progress because I had really pushed myself into situations that probably didn't really want to be doing. And the same with my next role, pushing myself to feel uncomfortable. So these mistakes in my eyes are small little wins because I need to get over some of these barriers in order to get good. Which is why I like to push myself and challenge and also think, like, it doesn't matter if someone doesn't like my call or my email. They tell me to bugger off. It doesn't actually matter. It doesn't really impact me. I usually find it a bit funny when I. When I get, like, negative responses because I'm like, you know what, I put a lot of effort into them. If they don't like it, then that's their loss. So I think just understanding that as a salesperson, like, we go through failures and you wouldn't be good unless you did that. So I want to go through failures, put me through more failures so then I can get really, really good at this role.

And I love, I love that mindset. I wish more SDRs and AES embraced that where it is like, look, do it right. If you do it right and someone doesn't like it, so be it. You just go on to the next one. But knowing why you want to keep going through and that desire to get better. Right? And so what are some of the other things that you do as an SDR to get better at your current role, but also prepare you for what it is you want to do next?

So I mentioned this before, and I speak to other people. I speak to so many sales leaders and ask them, like, what are your tick lists from getting an SDR to an aa? Even people I've prospected, I stay in touch with them because they're the roles that I want to be in in the future. So I stay in touch with these people and I make friends with them. And LinkedIn is a great place for prospecting, but we also forget that it's a place for networking. Just because you're an sdr, there's no reason why you can't reach out to a really senior person and ask them for help or ask them their opinion, as long as you're not being sneaky and trying to book them. I've had so much help from sales leaders in all these different companies, but I wouldn't have got that help if I didn't ask. Right? So reaching out to people externally, but internally as well. I listened to quite a few podcasts when I wanted to get better at the SDR role. I would listen and also follow a lot of sales leaders. So I followed you for a while. And I wouldn't just read stuff and like it I would try it the next day, day. I'd hear someone say about something. I was like, I'm going to try that literally now, or I'm going to try it tomorrow. I'm going to put it into practice. I'm going to try stuff, test stuff, fail at stuff. I also think, like, we've just spoken about getting in the state of feeling comfortable, feeling uncomfortable, if that makes sense. So you shouldn't. If I'm not uncomfortable, then I'm not progressing. So I want to get back to that kind of uncomfortable state where I'm progressing. I don't want to feel really comfortable and settled in my role. And then finally I listen to so many calls. I listen to. I want to get to an ae hopefully by the end of the year. I want to be an ae. So I'm going to be listening to our best AES calls, their discovery calls and negotiation. Because I'm going to listen to all of this and I'm going to copy so I sound like them and I'm going to iterate it. So I go into the AE role on day one and I can talk like raes already instead of waiting till I get there on day one and then, and then being like, okay, I should maybe need to adjust this. I already know how to sound.

Yes, ah, SDR is listening. Please play that back and listen to what she just talked about. I had an SDR on my own team actually a few months ago. Like, how can I best prepare to be an ae? Said, well, how many demos have you listened to in the last three months? How many I got? Well, one, like, okay, so now just think about that for a second. When I was an sdr, right? Because I'm a former sdr, so I have a very special place in my heart for SDRs. I've lived it, I've been in it. I know what that feels like. When I was in sdr, I was listening to two demos a day outside of my normal job, right? Like, because I wanted to prepare, right, for six months. So by the time that came up, I've already listened to over a hundred demos. I've written it out, I've been practicing it. Then you get ready versus like, oh, like I want to be an AE now, but I haven't done anything to actually get ready for it. So I love that. I think that is so, so key also as well.

Like do a role play. Like I put time in with our AES and I'm like, give me a company and give me a prospect and I'm going to run you through our deck and then you're going to give me feedback and then we're going to do it again next week and I'm going to work on the stuff that you've told me about. They want me to be an AE just as much as I want to be an ae, so they're going to help me.

Oh, I love it. You got me fired up right now. Like, I just love this. Like, this is. This is how I think it should be done. So now, before we wrap on this, I got, you know, couple, like one last main question, right? So we've talked about getting to know your buyer, how to get to know your buyer, right? Doing the interviews, how to stand out, putting those messaging in, how to research. So when it comes to booking more meetings, is there anything else, anything else that we didn't touch on yet? We even touched on video where you're like, this I know would help more SDRs book more meetings.

I think personalization, which we touched on, and persistence, like, yes, I think there's a crazy stat that 90% of reps give up on a lead. After touch point three or four, my cadence is 21 steps, and it's really not uncommon for me to book a CEO on step 21 and they'll reply and be like, I was just really enjoying your outreach. Yeah, let's book on a call. So persistence. Have at least most B2B meetings are booked after touch point six. So have at least six steps in your cadence or sequence at least six. But don't make it spammy, make it personalized and make it an enjoyable experience. Not all my emails are to do with Salesloft. Sometimes I just like to share a great podcast that I've listened to and I'll just have that as a step. Listen to this. Recently at 10 minutes 20, they talk about this topic, which is something I'm hearing a lot. Maybe your SDRs will find it useful.

I think that's so important because the, the persistency is about building awareness, right? So, like, they see your name the first time, delete it. See your name the second time, delete it. See your name the third time. I was like, why do I recognize this name? Delete it. See your name the fourth time. Who is this? Maybe I look, maybe I. Maybe I open that one. I don't respond. I see your name the fifth time, the sixth time, and then I see your name on LinkedIn and it's like all of a sudden there's this awareness level that's so important. But I'm so glad that you mentioned personalized persistence, because most sales reps, if they personalize. This is. If they personalize the first email. I'm talking about email number four and five. And if that's just the templated auto email that's going out, and that's the one I read.

Yeah, it's not doing anything.

You missed your shot like that. That was. That was the one I opened and read, and it was the templated. Hey, we have 5x ROI on our prospecting platform. Would you like to. Done. The whole thing is over, and so I love that you're finding ways to put personalization throughout. And so I got two last questions for you, Charlotte. This has been amazing. I'm so excited that we got to do this. So the first one is, like, we have touched on a lot, right? So I call it like the big three, right? It's like, if there were three things that you wanted people to remember from this conversation today, what would those three things be?

2 We touched on personalization, persistence. I think cut the jargon. I think is my third one. Stop using ROI and efficiency as challenges. Use real terms that your buyers probably go home and bitch about around the kitchen table. Not efficiency. That's my pet hate. I think so, yeah. Personalization, persistence, and cut the jargon.

I love it. I call it the long day after work test. If you can't picture your prospect sitting down after a long day of work, pouring a drink, taking a deep breath, and going, God, I just wish I.

If they're not right.

If you can't picture a VP like myself pouring a scotch and going, God, I just wish I had greater ROI on my prospect.

It's actually ridiculous. You say it right.

Like, it's just. You can't say that, right? Like, when I came to patient pop, people were calling it a practice growth platform, and I was like, how many doctors do you think sit down out of eight hours in surgery, take a deep breath, pour a scotch, and go, God, I wish I had a practice growth platform. Like, that's not how they talk. So I'm so glad you called that out, because it's just, take the sales hat off, y' all salespeople. Take it off. Speak like a human. And then my last question, right? Name of the podcast is Live better, Sell Better, right? Because I have this weird idea that if we took better care of ourselves, if we had more energy, joy, fulfillment, happiness, excitement in our lives, the sales would also improve. Right. So what would your live better advice be for the people listening.

Just enjoy your role. Like stop worrying about the overriding targets and stuff like that. Yeah, they're important. But if you're not having fun and you're not doing something you're passionate with, these numbers won't come. So I think I've done well because I take risks. I have so much fun in my day to day role, which means that I hit target.

I love it. I love it. Well, Charlotte, very impressed. Very impressed. This was phenomenal. Where can people get more of you? Where can they find you, follow you, consume your content? Like where can they get more of what you're putting out?

Yeah, follow me on LinkedIn. I post like most days about I'm really open with how I book meetings. I want everyone else to be booking meetings so I share this stuff. I'm going to be releasing a newsletter soon which will share tips every other week on how to book meetings. And then if you're interested in anything to do with sales law, creating more of a repeatable process or you want to build more pipeline, message me and yeah, I can point you in the right direction.

Oh yeah, well let me know when that newsletter is ready. I will share with the Patreon and the live better sell, better audience as well. But Charlotte, thank you so much for your insights, your energy and enthusiasm today. Really appreciate you.

No worries.