Rewire Your Brain to Thrive with Alli Rizacos

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Thank you for having me. You're. I've, you know, said this before, but this has been always the most fun I have on podcasts, so thank you for having me back.

Let's go. So we were already riffing for, like, 15 minutes before I even hit record. We're like, we should probably go on this. And so let's talk about this just from a high level, right? This difference between survival and in thriving. Right? Because those are two very different things. So when you hear, like, survival thinking, what comes to mind?

Yeah. So survival thinking is like animalistic thinking, right? You know, if you have a dog or a cat or any kind of pet, you can see their survival instinct when they're scared or afraid, right? Like, if they are scared, they will fight or flight, like, immediately. There's not even a moment of pause. It's just one of the two, right? And that is from their. The part of their brain that is wired for survival, which is the limbic system, which every animal on Earth has. And since we're an animal, too, we also have a limbic system. Right. The difference, though, with a human, the thing that actually makes us distinctly human is that we have another part of our brain which is the prefrontal cortex. No other species on this planet has a prefrontal cortex. And that is the part of our brain that is designed for logic and meaning and rationality. Right. Being analytical. Right. That's why, you know, if you have a dog again, I have a dog. So now I can have these examples. But, you know, he just makes survival decisions at all times. Is there food? I will go to food. That is it. You know, he's not like, is there, like, some more delicious food? Or is, like, there's something that I could do to make me more valuable? No, it's just like, if there's food, I go to food. Right. Whereas humans, with the prefrontal cortex, we now can make logical, rational, analytical decisions that aren't just based on survival. The. Go ahead. Nope, nope.

Keep going. I'm not gonna stop. You're on fire right now. Keep going.

So the. The challenge. There's two challenges. One is that the prefrontal cortex is, like, the newest part of the brain for a human. So we've had way less experience with that part of our brain as, like, a specie. Right? And then as a species for. Okay, full stop, right? So the part of the br. You know, the limbic system is just hardwired. Like, the wiring of that part of our. All of our brains is like a Five lane highway. Whereas, like, whereas the prefrontal cortex is like a dirt road as I like to say, right. Because we don't have as much experience as a species with the rational logical part of our brain. So that's kind of like the umbrella or like the theme as humans. But then individually, the macro, I should say so individually our prefrontal cortex does not fully develop until we're 25 years old. Right. So we're making all of these decisions and these, we're creating beliefs as children and even into our twenties about ourselves and the world with a brain that is not fully developed. And these beliefs usually then become our operating system, which is. Herein lies the entire kind of challenge with what I do. Imposter syndrome. And then the whole, you know, balance between surviving and thriving, right?

Yes. And that's, that's what I think is so hard in this. And it's the un. If, if more people understood how truth, which is how our brains worked one I think they'd be more forgiving of themselves. Like wait, like we are wired to do this and I loved your analogy, right. That limbic system, that's a five like that has been established. Every creature has it, that works and they know it works and it works.

Well, there's lots of evidence of it working, right.

So the default system.

Yeah, let's keep that in the bloodline, you know.

But I love the call out on that, the prefrontal cortex, you know, taking truthfully so long to, to develop. Because I also think this plays, you know, this not the topic today, but like, you know, how we teach our children and how schools are set up and the responsibilities that we put on them and the, the, the insights that we expect them to have when it's like yo, like their brain still hasn't developed all the way yet to even have enough self awareness to make some of these decisions. And we need to make sure that we're being careful with that. And so how. So let's take this next step. So we've got the two systems, right? We have prefrontal which allows that the awareness, the introspection, the thought thinking about thoughts, right? The fact that we can think about our thoughts, you know, and all those different things. We have the limbic system, whereas that fight, flight or freeze reaction. So how, you know, how do we start to take that next step then, right, of like, okay, what does it take? Actually I'm rephrase the question. What does it take to thrive? And then we'll work backwards from there, right? So we have Survival, which we're pretty good at, right? Most of us. Anyone listening? Hey, heads up. You're surviving.

You've done it. You've done it.

Like, you've checked that box so far, right? So now let's transition into, like, what does it mean to thrive? Right? What does thriving mean? And we can go from there.

So if. If you'll permit me, I would like to go to childhood for a second in order to illustrate thriving. Okay? So here's the thing that happens to every single human on this planet. And I'm not blaming parents and normal. You hear me, like, in what I say, blame parents. But I just want to disclaimer that, okay? So, okay, so as. As humans, we have two. We have many needs, but there's two fundamental ones that exist as children, right? As little infants. And those two needs are the need for authenticity and the need for attachment. When I say authenticity, I want to be specific here because I think most people get authenticity wrong. Just like, be yourself, right? But what does that actually mean? You know, how do you just be yourself, right? What that actually means is allowing yourself to feel all of your feelings, right? If you have a feeling that comes up, you allow yourself to feel it. I'm scared. I'm going to allow myself to feel scared versus suppressing that feeling, which is suppressing our inauthentic or our authenticity. Sorry, right. Making us inauthentic. Because how we feel, we're not going to feel or then even express, okay? Attachment, on the other hand, is the need for connection and the need for love and safety, right? So think about being a little baby, right? Or an infant toddler. There was gajillions of this moment that I'm about to describe. So we're a kid and a feeling arises in us, okay? And maybe it's frustration or fear or something, and we act on that feeling. We act out our feelings because, you know, when you're really small, you don't even have words. So the only way to communicate is through acting out your feelings, right? And so we acted out. Maybe we cry or we throw a tantrum or we yell or whatever it is, right? And then parents on the other end doing their absolute, very best to be a good parent, to do what they can with what they have, right? I truly believe they're always doing. They're trying to do their best. However, the stressors on parents is overwhelming, right? You have to be a good parent, a good husband, a good VP of sales, a good friend, a good. Like, there's so many things that you need to do as a human when you're a parent, right, that you know, your energy is low and your stress level boils over. So then, and then now your kid is like yelling and screaming and it's frustrating you. And so we kind of just want it to go away, right? Because we're so stressed out, we have all these things and so we try to make it go away. We either ignore them until they calm themselves down or we tell them, you know, stop it, or big girls don't cry or like boys don't cry, right? We tell them to stop feeling their feelings in that moment right? Now, a child needs both of those things to be attached to their parent because literally that is survival for a baby. You cannot survive without your parent. But they also have this need to fully express themselves, to fully feel. But in that moment when the parent is telling them, stop, do stop expressing. Now the child has to say, which one do I want more? My attachment and love and connection and support and safety from my parent or to be able to feel and express myself? Well, clearly the decision is very obvious. As a child, you say I need them to survive. Coming back to survival, I'm gonna pick attachment over my authenticity. So I'm now going to suppress my feelings, right? And then. And that happens over and over and over again. All these little micro moments, right? Again, not blaming parents. I'm so aware of the stressors that they're happening. And that's, that's a whole macro problem for like why there's so many stressors on, on humans anyways, right? But what that does as a child, then as we grow into adults, we keep those beliefs about ourselves, right? That I need to suppress my feelings and I need to do what mommy and daddy say in order to get love and acceptance, which is what we all need in this world to be here, right? If you don't have that, you'll be depressed, right? Or you maybe won't even want to, you know, be around for much for anyway. So. So we then become a version of ourselves that isn't truly us, right? Because we've been taught to suppress who. How we truly feel, right? So thus we all kind of are imposters, if you will, right? And we then learn that feelings aren't safe to feel, right? Meaning vulnerability, forget it. We're never going to be vulnerable, right? So coming back to surviving versus thriving, we've kind of been in survival, right? Because we don't feel our feelings and we don't feel how, you know, what's really going on and that's the definition of thriving. To be able to feel what you're feeling safely and be able to express it safely. Obviously, not like, if I'm angry, I'm not going to hit someone, right? But to express my anger in a healthy way and have the person I'm expressing it to listen and mirror back to me and hear me, right? Because as children, we felt unheard by our parents, right? I'm expressing something and you're not. You're ignoring me. You're telling me to shut up. I need to now hide and be who you need me to be in order for me to be loved and accepted. Right? So this is the crux of imposter syndrome and the crux of why so many of us are in survival mode all the time and find thriving almost impossible. Right? Because in order to thrive, we need to give ourself permission to feel our feelings. Coming back to your original question that I took a very long time to get, that's okay.

Well, now, because we're going deep now. Because, you know, if you ask most people what it means to thrive, no one will ever talk about emotions. They'll talk about things.

Oh, yeah.

What does it mean to be. What does it mean to be thriving? Right? I've got the house, you know, financial, you know, security. Da, da, da, da. But, like, when you boil those things down, they're all still seeking a certain type of emotion, Emotion from it, right? Thriving is I. I love that breakdown of like, because you can have all the things, but are you thriving if you're miserable? You got all the things, but you're miserable. You're not really thriving no matter what, because it's emotional, you know, you know, stability. But I'll go a layer deeper here, though, around thriving. Then. So there's recognizing the emotions, right? So, like, I'm feeling them, and then you. You are just getting there towards the end of, like, okay, that. The freedom to express them, right? In a certain way. Because I feel all sorts of emotions. Feel them all, right? And some of them, like, all right, I probably shouldn't express that emotion right now. Going to bring that one back. But I don't judge myself for the emotions because that's also what's unique to us as a species, is we'll feel an emotion and then again think about the emotion and then create judgments about the emotion, right? Like we, oh, I feel guilty, I feel ashamed. And then we're like, I shouldn't feel ashamed. I can't believe I feel ashamed. Oh, I'm so Weak. Like, oh, God, I'm so weak. Why am I so weak? Why. Can't even talk to yourself. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. So let's talk about this. You'll hopefully understand my question. I'm trying to.

Sure.

How to phrase it, but, like, so how do we, I guess, better regulate. Is it regulating our emotions? Like, because again, if you're always angry, in my opinion, something's off. So it's like, yeah, like, all right. Like, I'm emotionally aware. I'm always expressing anger. I wouldn't still call that thriving just yet. So, like, how. How do we regulate these emotions? Or, you know, pick up on, you know, maybe like the negative versus positive. Like, do you get what I'm asking here? Like, I'm doing a really bad of asking the question, but just like, all right, so, like. Cool.

All right.

Ally. I'm feeling all my emotions.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sad and I'm angry.

Yeah.

What do I do? What do I do?

Right. Okay. So this is like the second part of it, which is that every. And I love that you said judgment. Right. Because that's what also makes us so uniquely human, is that we can judge ourselves and things and other people, but we can judge our feelings and then judge the feeling of the feeling. Right. Like, it could just keep going and going, and that's what the downward spiral really is. Right. But this brings me to a really interesting kind of thought. Thought train, if you'll follow me, is that all. All feelings and judgments, for that matter, they are delivering us information about our needs. Right. So if I am angry or sad or frustrated or agitated, all of, you know, kind of the quote, unquote, negative emotions, even though that's the wrong word, but you know what I mean? That is indicating that what the information that those feelings are trying to tell you is that you have unmet needs in this moment. Okay, so. So here's a good way to, like, illustrate that. If all of your. Me. If right now, in this moment, if all of your needs that you've ever needed were met, how would you currently feel? What feelings would you feel?

I think what comes to mind is, you know, calm. Satisfied. Happy is the wrong word because, like, happy is like this peak moment. It's just in my. If everything's. It's a call, it's a, you know, fulfilled. Probably shows up a little bit, but yeah, it's just. It's a calm. It's just a. Hey, like, all right. Like, it's Maybe even safe is the word that comes up.

It's like okay, yeah, yeah.

Things are. Things are okay. Like I'm good. That's. That's what comes to mind. If all. All needs are met, that's. That's what shows up.

Exactly. Perfect. Right? So all quite positive emotions, right? Meaning that. So if I'm feeling quote unquote, negative emotions, sadness, frustration, agitation, that means a need is not being met, right? If we just follow the logic there, right? So you're saying someone is angry all the time and they're just expressing their anger, right? Well, that is information for them, right? Information to say, clearly there is a need that I have that is not being met in my life, right? This anger is trying to point me to that need, right? And if I can understand what need of mine is not being met, maybe it's love and acceptance, you know, whatever it might be, it usually is intimacy, connection, right? That if you can understand the need, then you can go fill that need for yourself, right? So if I'm angry, like let's say I'm angry at my partner, right? Okay, so what, what's. What am I angry about? Like, what's this feeling trying to point me to? And inevitably it comes back to a need of mine. So maybe I wanted to feel more connected to him or more intimacy with him or more accepted by him, and instead he kind of made me feel stupid, right? So now I'm angry because instead of making me feel loved and accepted, he made me feel stupid. So anger arises, right? But actually what I. What my need is the love and acceptance. So now I can go to him and I can express. Listen, I'm feeling angry because what you said made me feel stupid. Not blaming you. I'm just telling you how I'm feeling. And what I really wanted in that moment was to feel more connection and more intimate with you, right? Right. More intimacy with you. And instead I felt stupid, right? How you expressed yourself to me made me feel stupid instead. Right? So you can. Does that make sense? Right? Like you can have. These feelings are okay, because they lead you to what you actually need. No one needs to be angry all the time. That's not a need, Right? Anger is trying to point you to an unmet need that you have. And once you can understand the unmet need, now you can go try to ask for what you need or meet it yourself, which is then going to, what, create positive feelings, right? More calm, more peace, more contentment. The anger then starts to go away, right?

Yes. And so I got two questions here now, right? So like along these lines, I guess understanding those needs Right. How do you understand what that need is? Right? Because so often what people believe is the need is just the opposite of the emotion, right? Like, you made me angry. I need you to make me feel happy, right? Like, it's not clear of, like, what the need is. That's the first question. The second question, because otherwise I'll forget it because I'll think of another question while you're. While you're going through is this concept of operating system, right? Because I think I've always loved that as an analogy of, like, what is our internal operating system? And like, basically, like, how do we upgrade it? Because a lot of us are still using the operating system from, you know, circa six, you know, six years old, and we haven't upgraded that operating system. So first the needs question. How do we understand what those needs are? And then we'll get into upgrading our operating system.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, so there's a. There's a little bit of a cheat sheet that I have that is like feelings that arise from unmet needs and feelings that arise from met needs. And then underneath is like, all needs that you could have, right? But to make it a little bit easier, right? Think about the times where you have felt peace and contentment. What was present in your life? You know, maybe it was like, oh, you know, I hung out with friends and we had like, a really good conversation and I felt really seen, right? So connection, you know, the need to feel seen and understood, right? Understanding, you know, when else have I felt good in my life, right? Oh, I, you know, I. I closed a big deal at work and, you know, it was like really hard work and I was really happy when it did, right? So maybe you want the need, the need for competence, right? The need for significance, right? So think about these kind of peak moments and think about, well, what was it about those peak moments that made me feel good, right? What, like, what's behind that? And therein lies some needs, right? That clearly when those things happen now, you feel good. So clearly a met. A need is being met in that moment, right? So make sense.

Yeah, I like that. Paying attention to when you have felt that emotion, what was present, what were you doing? Why are you in this state? Okay, Love that. Because then that helps address in that need, right? Of like, okay, you know, the love and acceptance or security, safety, whether it's physical or psychological safety, like all of that there. So, okay, I like that because I think it is. It's so unique to people, right? Because what makes you feel secure might Be very different than what makes me feel secure, but it's still seeking of security and then figuring out like, well, when have I felt that way and being able to go from there. Okay, I like that. Now let's talk about upgrading this operating system, right? Because like I, because I work with the coach as well, right. And we talk about this a lot of like, well, if you try to install a new app on the wrong system, doesn't work. Right. Like he talks about the internal operating system a lot. Whereas if I went into, you know, the Google Play store to try to download an app for my Apple iPhone, that is, you know, I haven't updated the software in four to five years, that app isn't going to work. It's not the app's problem. It was put onto an operating system that was not ideal. So let's talk about now how to start upgrading this operating system so we can be more in a thrive mindset, so we can be in a more fulfilled call it state and go from there.

So that's such a great analogy from your coach because that's the difference that I find between like tactics and full on coach, like coaching for mindset, if you will. Right. Like I can teach you all the tactics in the world, I can give you all the tactics in the world. But if you're putting, if you're adding those to an operating system that is out of date, it doesn't really matter, right? So you need both, obviously you can't just have one without the other. But for me, it always started more with the operating system, which is more around your mindset. Right. So yes, how do we start upgrading this thing? Because you're totally right, we basically made all these decisions when we were growing up 4, 5, 6, 7 years old, right before the ages of 25. Right. That becomes our beliefs, which become our operating system. Whatever we believe becomes how we then think and what we think becomes how we behave. And then how we behave is the actions that we take and then the actions that we take create the results and that reinforces the belief. Right? So we're in that loop all the time. So then we have to think about, well, what are these beliefs if it starts with the belief. So we need to get super clear on what is it that we do believe. And most, the most important piece is what do we believe about ourselves. Right. I can guarantee you 99.9% of all of your viewers, and you and I included, have a belief inside of us that we developed when we were a kid that says that we're not good enough. Right. Somehow. Right. Some example of when our parent tried to shut us up or, you know, ignore us, or we tried to show them something we're really excited about, and they're like, that's nice, honey, and then turned away. We decided, oh, my God, I must not be good enough. That's why they don't care. Right. We don't have the cognition and the prefrontal cortex development at that age to actually discern what was true, which is they're busy and they're stressed and they have other things going on. This has nothing to do with me. Right. We make that instance become our internal belief system, which then becomes our operating system. System, right. So 99.9% of people think they're not good enough. That's a great place to start for everyone in terms of upgrading the belief system or the operating system or belief.

So I want to jump in there. I want to jump there real quick. How.

Right. Exactly.

How do I do? Because that. That is something that, again, I think, one. You know, it's. It's easy. Buzz terms, right? Of like, you know, believe in yourself and love yourself first. If everyone goes, yeah. And then they wake up the next day like, okay, right. So, like, how do you work on this. This idea of enough, Right. Like, what's that process? Because I think that's a really, really important place to start.

Exactly. So there's two things. There's the working on the judgment piece and working on rewriting the script. Right. Our belief system is just a script on repeat over and over again. Right. You're not skinny enough. You're not pretty enough. You're not smart enough. You're not rich enough. You're not strong enough. You're not manly enough. You know, insert whatever and then put enough at the end of it. Right?

Correct.

And so these are all judgments that we have, right? So when a judgment arises Now. So what I'm going to say is how you do it. But it's not very sexy. It's not very easy. It takes a lot of time, but it's literally the only thing that actually starts to rewire. Because so what we're doing is rewiring the brain. So when the brain has a stimulus that is that typically it will. It will take that stimulus and then tell. We will tell ourselves a judgment that, oh, I'm not skinny enough, or I'm, you know, too fat, whatever. When that judgment happens in our mind, we then have to recognize it and pause to say, wait, is that actually true? Right. Is that actually something I want to continue to believe or not, right? And then if you want to take it further in terms of like going into the healing journey to say, where did I develop this belief from? Right? It always comes back to childhood. So it's kind of like re parenting the child in you, right? But it's about catching all of these judgments, pausing in that moment so that we can then react differently. Because if I don't pause, then what's going to happen? I'm just going to feel shitty about myself. Now that I feel shitty, I'm going to probably be less motivated at work. I'm going to maybe be shitty to someone else. Right. And all these kind of snowball effects. But if I pause in that moment, kind of reclaim my, my own agency in that moment around my thoughts and say, is this actually true? Do I want to continue to believe this? And how could I rewrite this other. Other, you know, other than what I'm saying to myself, right? So you know, you can rewrite like, I'm not skinny enough, right. To say my body is perfectly healthy, right? That's a very different statement. It's not like, oh, my, my body is perfect or my body looks the right shape. No, my body is healthy, right? Which is what our bodies are meant for. Not. They're not a, you know, display for the world, right? So. But we're not aware of the constant judgments that we're having. So first we have to get really, really aware of those judgments. Like literally start writing all of them down throughout the day. Like, oh, there's one, there's one I didn't. That's been going on for a while. I just thought that was like what I needed to think, I guess. Let me write that one down. Let me rewrite what I actually want to believe, right? And then you repeat it over. You have to repeat that process over and over again because we're rewiring the brain. Neuroplasticity is a real thing. You can rewire the brain, but it takes constant mindful practice of when that judgment arises. Instead of going down that circuitry, right? Going down that wiring, you stop it in its tracks and say, I'm gonna do something different, which is believe a different thought and create a different thought in this world, which then creates a new action. So now you're gonna take a different action, which then creates a different result, which is new evidence from your brain to then say, I guess now I have a new belief, right? Because I have all this evidence for this belief now. So I can Believe this, right?

So me and my coach do the exact same process, which is so funny. Just like listening to. So basically, the judgment, right? It's rephrased. I am that I am unconfident. I am that I am not successful enough. I forgive myself for judging myself as right. So, like, what judgments are there, right? Well, what type of being would think that way, right? Then it flips to the new truth is. The new truth is right? So I forgive myself for judging myself as, you know, insecure or needing approval or egotistical, whatever that is. The new truth is. And I have my declaration that I work through because he would only put one extra line in there. Just saying, like, because when you do that, it changes your being. That changes your actions. That changes your results, right? Because if I start being this person, then my behavior changes. It's just hilarious. It's the exact same process of like, you know, what are those judgments? How am I judging myself? Am I forgiving myself for those judgments? And then going, what's the new truth? The new truth is. And you just catch yourself, and it puts you in the moment to go through all that. And so. And y' all just. So you're listening. This shit works, okay? Has no idea Ali is not my coach. Has no idea that this is exactly what I'm doing with my coach as well, is it's changing your being. Because if you can change the being to thrive, then your actions occur, then you get to where you want to be. So I jumped in this. I want you to keep going.

But, like, right, right.

So, okay, so we've gone from, you know, okay, surviving versus thriving. We've talked about how we kind of get to this place. We've talked about, you know, the judgments now around it. So then what are some of, like, called the small actions that we could be doing daily to keep us there, Right? Because we all have ups and downs, right? It's. We're going to have bad days. It's got. We're going to have judgments, right? But like, how. What are the things that we can do to try to actually make it real? Because I'm sure some people could listen, like, wait, so is this just affirmations all day? Yeah, I am. I am perfect. I am beautiful. I am right? And they're like, no, like.

But I'm not.

Like, but I'm not right now. So how do I have that conversation around it?

Yeah, well. And one thing I just wanted to add to thank you for, you know, sharing what you do with your coach in the fact that it's exactly the same, which is. Which is amazing. You have a great coach. And, you know, it's exactly what I do with my clients as well, because it is. It. It's what works, right? It's actually the way to. To heal the problem is, you know, some people are going to hear that and be like, ugh, like, that sounds so freaking tedious, right? Like, seriously, like, that's how. Right. I can't just, like, make more money and buy more stuff. Like, that seems so much easier. But the problem is, is. Is that is exactly how. How it works and how you will, you know, change your operating system. But we are all addicted to productivity and being busy, right? And the being busy and distracting ourselves is exactly that. We're distracting ourselves from the truth of who we are, which is all of these judgments and all of this. This, you know, negative operating system happening. And we feel it come up, right? We feel a judgment come up, and we feel shitty about it, which creates discomfort in our body. And then instead of doing exactly what you just said, right, you know, like pausing to say, forgive myself and rewriting it, we distract ourselves. So we go on Instagram, right, To get a dopamine hit, or we go get a snack, right, to get another, you know, endorphins and dopamine and whatever. Or we go back to work or write an email, whatever. We distract ourselves from the uncomfortable feeling, right? But the feeling is there. So to your point of, you know, what do you do? Well, start to notice all the distracting that you're doing, right? So so many of my clients, this is like a big topic right now with my clients, like, they got, like, four screens happening. Their cell phones right here, right? Notifications on the whole thing. They got the personal email open. They got the slack. They got the. And I'm like, how many notifications are you get? Like, how plugged in do you need to be? Like, this is insane. So they're creating an environment in which they will stay distracted. Like, that is how much we will run away from doing this work, right? We will run away from our actual feelings and the rewriting of our thoughts because it feels. Well, we've never done it, so it feels scary. We think that we're not going to be good at it, and we don't even know how to do it, right? So first and foremost is start to take away the distractions, right? Give your. You know, like, create an environment in which you can actually pause, right? But if I'm pausing and then I get a slack message and a WhatsApp message. At the same time, my brain's going to be like, go check the messages immediately. Like, it doesn't want to pause anymore because it has something that's going to give them dopamine, which it really likes, right? So create an environment in which you can thrive, in which you can pause. You know, take an assessment of. Of your judgments coming up and, you know, take the time to rewrite them, right? So distractions is your biggest enemy and creating an environment in which you have less. So, you know, I've taken social media off my phone completely. I don't have any notifications on my phone other than if it's text. And WhatsApp, meaning it's like, people I dearly love, right? Like, if you. That people that want to contact me that I dearly love, perfect other people, no offense, I will get to you when I decide I'm ready to bring you into my life, right? And. And so I don't like. So when I do have judgments, which I still have, obviously so do you. We've always will. I can notice. I have such clear mind to just notice them because I'm not. I don't have all these distractions around me. So I was telling. I was telling you before we kind of started to. Started to record here. So I. I've always been a work addict, but I only now realize that I am a work addict, right? Like, I finally, I'm in acceptance, right? Before, I was in denial, and now I'm in acceptance. And once you are aware and you have to go into acceptance, well, now you have to deal with it, right? Which is the hardest part. So this summer, I kind of spent some time, you know, dealing with and sitting with my work addiction, right? And I would go for a walk, and I'd be walking to the gym, and I would have no podcast on, you know, nothing. Just me and my own thoughts. Again, take away the distractions, and I would just notice the thoughts happening in my head, and it was insane, dude. It was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? This is a waste of time. Turn around, turn around, turn around. Why are you doing this? No, no, stop. Stop. Why are you walking? Why are you walking? Turn around. You. There's work to do. There's work to do at home. What do you do? Like, the whole time, right? And I was just like. I kept walking straight. I was just like, this is fascinating. This is fascinating. Wow. Right? So again, instead of judging myself for having that thought, I get wildly curious, right? And I say fascinating. Look at These thoughts happening. Wow, this is really interesting. I wonder, I wonder, has this been going on for a long time? Where did I get this from? Right? Just start getting curious about these automatic thoughts that you have, right? And then say, okay, well, you know, go through the evidence. Is this actually true? Do I need to go back to work? Do I have work to do? Right? So you go through the evidence of it and then you say, okay, so I guess this isn't true. So if it's not true, then what is the new declaration that I want to make, right? What's the new thing that I want to start telling myself when this crazy thing starts to come up, right? And it's, it's like self, self regulating, like you said, it's like self soothing. It's like, okay, that crazy thing about working came up. What am I now going to tell myself? I'm going to go to the gym because I want to go to the gym. And that is what I choose to do right now. You know, I'm making this conscious choice, right? So, so one distraction so that you can actually start to listen to your thoughts and then two is get curious about them instead of immediately judging them. Three, like I said before, is you can also start writing them down so you can become wildly aware of them because you'll also start to see the themes in them as well. Right? There's definitely a theme running through most of them.

So mine, I hated that exercise.

Yeah.

Yeah, I hated writing them down because. And I did, I talked about this. My coach, she's like, I feel like that's when it made it real. Whereas, like, you know, all right, the thought was there and you just, all right, just let it go. Like, ah, whatever, Right? Yeah, but like, you had to write it down.

Like, Jesus, like I say this to.

Myself, whoa, yeah, that's. Those are just the ones that I capture.

Like. Yeah, like, exactly. And here's the thing. That's why I tell my clients all the time, because we all judge ourselves. So do my clients. Imagine. So now you write them down and you see all these judgments. You're like, oh, this is terrible, right? Like, I can't believe I'm saying this to myself. So just. And you know, we all know that the things we say to ourselves we would never actually say to anyone else. Like, we would never treat other people that way, but yet we somehow think it's a really good way to treat ourselves and that we're, we'll somehow thrive by treating ourselves that way, right? So it's like, right there Is the moment where you're like, you need to upgrade the operating system. Because if. If I said to anyone else the thoughts that I tell myself, that person would not be a thriving person. That person would be very depressed and they would be very sad and they would not be okay, right? But here we are thinking, oh, I can just shit on myself all day and thrive and do really well at work and, you know, have a great relationship and be a great parent when I'm shitting on myself all day inside, and it's like, no, you're just going to be really exhausted.

Actually, it doesn't. And that. And that. And as we wrap on this, that was always the big part that, you know. You know, I work with my coach. Townsend is my coach, and what he talks about often is like, truthfully, it can work. You can have those thoughts and succeed. You can have this, you know, things. But it's defining success, right? Like, he's like, there are a lot of people that you look externally and go, like, they have all the success you're looking for, but they're miserable, right? So it can allow you to achieve things, but it doesn't allow you to thrive. If that is how you're constantly talking to yourself, there's another way to achieve those things and feel a certain way internally and enjoy. And also, when you unpack a lot of the shit internally, it changes oftentimes what you're actually looking for. And this is what we were talking about just before we started recording, which is the last point I want to make here. This idea between, you know, chasing something, like, ooh, I want to achieve this, versus running away from something and knowing the difference between am I actually chasing this achievement or am I running away from insecurity? Like, am I trying to achieve this thing because I actually want to achieve it, or am I running away from something internally? And I'm thinking that's going to solve it. So let's wrap on that topic real quick of just this idea of running from versus, you know, chasing and kind of what that looks like.

Yeah, exactly. Right? So that's. So I want to, you know, I want to hit, you know, my quota or like this, whatever it is that could be propelled by your insecurity, that if you don't, you will never be loved and accepted. Right? Or valued. Right? Or you could want it because you really want to learn from the experience and you really want to, you know, garner the skills that it's going to take to get there. Right? Like, the. The journey of it is actually what you're gaining from it, right? And you're chasing it for all the things that you can learn and obtain from it versus if I don't do it, I'm a huge failure and will never be loved and accepted, right? So it's like being fueled by insecurity or being fueled by a desire, right?

I love it. It's the fuel. And that's the magic word is how are you fueling, right? You can fuel with, you know, desires, you can fuel with fear, you can fuel with insecurity. They're all fuel. But there's a better, cleaner burning fuel that you can put there. And I think that's the thing.

I think, you know, 97% of people, you know, know the. The way to fuel themselves. Like the chip on their shoulder away, right? Like, people don't think, I can do it. I'm going to prove them wrong, right? And the same second you're trying to prove anything, you've already lost the battle, right? Because the only thing that you're proving is that you're insecure.

You know, it's just so. It's so funny. And like, this is why I have no problem sharing this. This is something I worked through because that was a chip for me, like being doubted, right? No one believes I got to prove them wrong. And the way Townsend said it to me once, he's like, so that, that can work, right? It's led you this far, right? You that can work. Proving the doubter is wrong. But you understand that in order for you to achieve, achieve more, you're gonna have to continuously find people that doubt you, your fuel. So you are going to continue to surround yourself with people that doubt you. So in order to achieve 2 more F where you're at now, you're gonna have to find people that doubt you twice as much. Like, is that really the fuel that you want to be put? Because it like. And he's always about, he's like, it'll work. You can put that fuel in and you put. Probably will get there. Is that the fuel you want to burn? Is it? You want to continue to find people that doubt you for you to succeed? Like, how about we unpack that one a little bit and do the work on it?

So that's such a good way to think about it because, like, when you look at that logically, you're like, that doesn't feel like that's going to work. The other part is to wrap it too, is it works for sure. Like, listen, my, you know, my internal insecurities totally led me to a lot of achievement at Salesforce and, you know, lots of places. But, but the second it was over, right, the second I achieved that thing, it was like, oh my God, I need the next thing. Like, I'm already at the bottom again, right? So it's so unsustainable. So that's, that's the other part of this, right? The sustainability of it. And yeah, you could probably sustain it for quite a long time. Right. But one thing will always catch up to you, which is your body. Right. Because if you are so focused on achievement because you're so insecure about needing to prove and all these things, you're obviously going to overwork, you know, you're not going to take care of yourself as much because the only eye on the prize, you know, the only motivation is this achievement to, you know, quell all your other insecurities. You'll, you'll totally deprioritize yourself and your body will catch up to you and your body will make you, you sick at some point, which is, I mean, we've heard that story like a million times, right? Someone's like, I was 35 and had a heart attack because I was working all the time. And you're like, yeah, I, that's exactly what happened. So it's not sustainable. It's, it's, it'll get you to the point of sickness and then you're gonna have to do something anyways, right? So it's just like this is just trying to help people prevent that too, you know? Yeah.

Your body will stop you eventually, right? It's like, if you won't, it'll stop you.

So.

So, Ali, we're already at 45 minutes. I already, like, I knew it was going to be impossible even trying to keep to 30. Where can people find more of you? Where are you putting out content and like, who should be reaching out to you for support in these areas?

Yes. Yeah. So I am. LinkedIn is kind of my only, you know, social media. Like I said, I don't have any on my phone, but LinkedIn on my desktop is where I hang out. So we had on LinkedIn, Ali Rosakos, imposter syndrome coach on LinkedIn and in terms of like the work that I do and, and who I work with. So as I said, I'm an imposter syndrome coach. And I believe that we're all imposters because of the whole authenticity versus attachment thing. So I really work with tech leaders and sales professionals on upgrading their operating system. Right. Like, I listen Most companies will give you the tactics, right? They'll give you the. The stuff, the strategies and the tactics. But, like, it won't work if you're putting it on the wrong operating system, right? So I really, really help people to rewrite the script, right, to get. And the rewriting of the script is to get you out of that imposter syndrome script that's been happening, right? We're all feeling like the chip on your shoulder is imposter syndrome, right? Like, oh, I need to prove that I'm someone else. Because you think that you're not that person, right. And you think that the world doesn't think that you're that person, right? So in order to, you know, overcome or manage imposter syndrome, however you want to say it, is to rewrite, rewire, and rewrite the script. So that's exactly what I do with client. Exactly what your coach does. That's. That's what I do. If you want to coach like Katie's coach, you can come to me.

Yeah, just jump, y'. All. And for real. And we'll wrap on that. Y'. All. Get a coach. For real. Get a coach. Get a support. We all have blind spots. We all have support. And also, we have to remember it's the coach's job. They know what they're doing, doing. They're better at this than us. They've gone through program systems, and they've lived it, too. Like, you need that support. You just do.

I had this aha moment that I just want to share, if you'll let me, about coaching. So you know what? So the whole thing about childhood and suppressing our feelings and whatnot, and then we become adults and we keep suppressing our feelings and all we need, you know, we just need to actually be able to feel our feelings, but it's really hard to do. That's why you get a coach, right? To kind of help you through that process. And so I had this aha moment today. I was listening to a podcast that was talking about exactly that, and I realized that, like, basically, as a coach, like, you're giving your clients exactly what they never got from their parents. You know, like, a parent's job is to attune to their child and mirror back to their child so that the child can understand who they are, right? But we just tell them, shut up or ignore them, or, like, we just try to push it down, right? And a coach is all. That's what we do. We mirror back what we're seeing, just like your coach did. Oh, I hear you KD about the, you know, doubters and whatnot but let me just play this back to you. So does that mean that you would need more doubters in order for this to work? And then you're like huh, that doesn't sound, that doesn't work out. So it's a mirror right? And it's anyways it's all moment of like we're basically becoming the parents that everyone wanted and needed, right. But now we're adults and it's even more impactful because we're adults that can actually go out into the world and do amazing things with this kind of stuff.

Surviving versus thriving doll. This is an example. This is what gets you closer to thriving. So Ali, thank you so much again. This was amazing. Part 2 we still have room for part 3 and part 7 and part 14 like all that's going to show up. But thank you so much for today.

Yeah, thanks Katie. Always nice to be. Sa.