The #1 Mistake Reps Make When Moving from Disco to Demo | Kevin "KD" Dorsey | Ep. 297 (Sell)

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Everybody and welcome to this episode of 30 Minutes of President's Club. My name is Armand Froak and I'm here with my co host Nick Segelski. And folks, we've never had this gentleman on the show before. His name is Kevin K.D. dorsey. He's actually been on this show approximately 17 times at this point. He was also on this show last week. And so this is a two part, part two of a two part Discovery series with the legendary Kevin Dorsey. If you're not familiar with him, he is a four time CRO/VP of sales of $100 million plus sales organizations. And in the last episode from last week he talked about all the ways you can get to problem identification in Discovery. Size up the problem, get agreement on the problem. And in this episode we're going to take it a step further where we start to talk about the ideal future state and ultimately go into the demo and next steps on your discovery call. Nick, why should people listen?

So we got into a couple different really, really impactful things in your disco calls in this episode. First we talked about why you should not be telling your prospect with 100% conviction that you can absolutely solve their problem. Then we get into how to get your prospect to tell you exactly where they are looking to go and what you need to sell to in the demo. And then we got into some best practices for showing value showing demo, including the exact questions that you should be asking after you've showed any particular feature. All right, Katie, I hope that you've not forgotten that we start every single episode with your top three actionable takeaways. So let's get your three.

First one is you have to discover the better feature. You can't just go deep on problems and pains. You actually feel like what is the better future they are trying to achieve, Right. In all this, what we're looking for here is like, where do they want to go in all of this? What is it they actually want to do? So it's not what they want the product to do. This is what's on the other side of this, right? So if we were able to solve this, what would that allow you to do? Where do you want to get to? What does success even look like? If you were to roll a product like this out, how do you know it went well? So we're trying to find out what is it they actually want in all of this? What is that better future they're trying to achieve? You can't just go on problems. Too many reps just go on like, I'm not paying to sell. I know where you're trying to go.

Well, my better future is hearing number two. So what's that?

Number two would make them hold it. Make them hold it. Right. And get rid of like the standard checking questions. We call them BLC and. And make them hold it questions where once you're in the demo, a lot of times reps ask questions like does that make sense? Any questions? And you get nothing from that. Right. Whereas if you're asking questions, it's called blc. So BLC stands for benefit laden question, where you're actually asking them the benefit of what you just showed them. Because now it's their words. If I ask you, so how much faster is that than what you're doing right now? Now it's your words versus me saying this is so much faster than what you're doing right now. Or make them hold it questions, which is where you get the prospect to visualize the usage of your product. So you just showed them a dashboard. So what metrics would you put here? What campaign would you start with? How would you prioritize this? Who would you roll this out to? First you want to ask questions that really get them to make them hold it.

Today's show is brought to you by Outreach, which helps you increase seller productivity, coach calls more precisely and forecast more accurately using a platform powered by AI agents. If you're running a tape review, you're going to stop at three different points. Number one, when the prospect monologues ask your reps, what did we pull out that was important? From there, ask your reps what should we say or ask next? And then click play and recap. What did the rep do versus what we thought they should do. Our friends AT Outreach built a 30 NPC resource hub where you can grab this play and and an unreasonable amount more links in the show notes.

Today's show is brought to you by Insightly, the CRM that helps you spot deal risk early. So pipe reviews actually drive your number one question I ask in nearly every deal review is what do we need to get in our next interaction with a customer? If my rep can't answer that question, the deal has risk and I have something I can coach to now. We built a guide with our friends at Insightly CRM on how to run pipe reviews that surface real risk and get deals moving again. And you can get it for free at the link in the show notes. Beautiful. Round us out. What's number three?

Number three is when you are in the demo, you have to constantly be looping back to what they've told you now in discovery, if you're not going to use what you learned in discovery, don't even do it. You might as well just run the demo. So the idea around looping is that we are connecting back feature by feature, function by function of like. Okay, here's what it's actually going to do for you. And the framework that we teach throughout the demo is like kpick. Here's what I know. The problem, the impact of that problem, connecting the dots to how we solve it, and then the call to action is what leads into the BLCs and make them hold questions. But we're constantly coming back to those things. Too often demos like, you might as well not even done the discovery because they're not even connecting back to what they learned in the first place. So that would be number three.

Alrighty, Katie. So in the last episode, you broke down everything you need to do to start a discovery call, identify a problem, get your prospect to agree to that problem and quantify the impact of that problem. And then there's a turn where you start to go into the better future of. So let's talk about what you want it to look like. Could you give an example of what would you hear as a problem in a discovery call? And then how would you transition that to a better future?

So for finally. So we are, you know, a platform for small businesses. We actually used to be called back office. So we handle all the accounting, payroll, bookkeeping, expense management. We have a corporate card growing into banking. So it's like all in. In one. We can use like the expense management side of things. Right. So a common problem there. You have controllers chasing down receipts. Things aren't categorized properly. Salespeople, they always turn in their receipts on time. Hypothetically, let's say that they don't. So they can't match transactions. So that's a lot of the problems that happen there. And the impact of that problem, it takes longer to close the books. The books are not accurate. You're playing the bad guy chasing Armand if you don't put your receipt in. So, like, that's all the problems of the impact of it or whatever. So generally from there it's like, okay, assuming we could solve that now notice the seeding that we're doing there. Right? So assuming we could solve that. I'm not telling you we can. I'm not saying, oh, we're going to fix it, which is a lot of reps do. Oh, based on what I Heard, like, we can solve all this for you. Okay, well, assuming we could solve that for you, what would that look like for you? What if you didn't have to chase those things down? What would you do? How would you leverage that time? What would that allow you to do? What would change if. It's still one of my favorite discovery questions. So assuming we could solve this, what would change? If you could do these things, you didn't have to chase down, what would change if we were collecting all those things? Tell me a little bit more about that. This is a very important pivot, is you've got all these problems. And also, by the way, y', all, this is huge because they've been sharing their problems with you. Trust is much higher at this point, so it's way easier for them to share. Like, honestly, Katie, I just. I don't want to be working late every single weekend to try to get the books closed each and every single month. Or my CFO is breathing down by and back because, like, I can't answer for where Armand's expenses are and why there's a $1400 charge. And at, like, you know, Papadox, it's like, what does this even mean? You know? And so it's things like that of like, where do you want this to go? It's not, what do you want the product to do? That's not what this is about. This is what's on the other side of this. If we did fix this, what would change if we do this and nothing changes in your world, you're not gonna change. Like, you. There's no reason for you to do this. So that's the transition into the better future. And then similarly, just like in the problem, it would make my life so much easier. See, that's what I want. Nick, tell me more. What does that mean? Same way, like, on the problem side, where they're like, oh, yeah, I'm dealing with this. Okay, tell me more. What does that mean? Same question now, in the positives. Like, God, it just make my life so much easier. I could get the books done so much faster. Love that for you. Tell me more. What would that mean? Now we're unpacking the better future.

You have this language of assuming we can solve that. I think a lot of times the way that I know you're doing your discovery with your, like, sort of multiple choice. You're helping steer the conversation towards places you can help, like, you can solve all of that stuff. And so why are you almost like, tempering that statement as Opposed to being like, yeah, we can solve all of these, what would that mean for you?

Because it doesn't matter if I say it doesn't matter if I tell you we can solve all those things. In fact, we are actually quite prone to look for disagreement more than agreement. So if I tell you, oh, we can solve all that, what it generally actually creates is a lens of, well, we'll see. If I say like, you know, assuming we could, we might be able to, it's possible I'm actually pulling you in. Whereas now it's like, well, let's look to see if you can, not to see if you can't. And we got to remember every step I'm trying to get to the next one. So if I say things like, you know, so assuming we could solve this, I'm not cornering you, I'm not pressuring you. In fact, I'm pulling you in and building some curiosity. Assuming we can. No promises. What does that actually make you think? If you come to me, you're like, all right, Katie, you know, blah, blah, blah. We want you to like train like our, our sales leaders. That I was like, all right, let's, let's assume maybe like we can get your managers running a little bit tighter as opposed to, oh my God, I've worked with the best of the best and you're going to love it. I'm the best trainer out there. It pushes people away. That's why I like to be definitive when I actually know I'm definitive. I only actually know that once I've run the demo. I actually only know that once I've gotten benefit related check ins. I actually only know that once I've made you hold it because you've told me it's going to solve this for you. So it's pulling them in on the science of selling is one of the, one of the best that broke this down of like the differing push and pull language and how if you pull people in like we might be able to, it's actually possible. We'll see. We don't work for everyone. We'll dive in here. It pulls people in, in more than when you're saying, hey, this is going to be great for you. It pushes people away.

So Katie, could you talk about then the transition as you start to pull them in and you're like, assuming we could solve this, what would you want life afterwards to look like? They're like, yeah, I don't want to do the books anymore. How do you start to transition to the solution without Making them defensive.

This is where we get to use the mms. Might make sense to the transition now into either the demo or the next call, depending if you do a little bit now, I will throw this out as a tip, y'. All. Like if your disco call, demo call, separate, you gotta give them a taste. You got give them a little, little taste in that call. So the, the segue, this transition here is very similar. So once we've gone through this, this is what sets up the might make sense. You know, actually, Nick, I think think this might make sense. Here's what I'm hearing. The books are taking too long, chasing down receipts. You're tired of playing the bad guy. CFO's breathing down your. Your neck. And really, you want to get to a place where you, you feel confident in these things. You're hours. I mean, we've solved that for a lot of people. What I'd love to do is walk you through how we might be able to solve that for you. And if you like what you see, talk about getting the rest of your finance team on the next call, because that's generally how this works. Would that sound okay? Now, the reason for the next step is what we just talked about. I'm seeding the very next thing. If you like what you see today, we'll talk about getting your next people on. I can't remember the technical term, but what it does, it also takes the pressure off that I'm not asking you to buy today, which allows you also to listen better because they're like, oh man, they're going to start. It's like, I already know we got to talk to other people. Don't worry about it. I want your opinion on this today, so the might make sense. Here's what I know you're struggling with. Here's where I know you want to get to. I think we might be able to do this for you, but it'll be up to you to tell me if we can. Let me walk you through this. And if you think it will solve it, we'll talk about getting the rest of your team on the next call. And if not, you can just let me know.

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You mentioned that on that 30 minute discovery call it is a massive error to not give them at least a little taste of this thing. So my question for you is 30 minute call. What's the minute mark where you make this transition? How much time do you allocate for sort of giving them that taste and then how do you then transition into driving those next steps?

I like 25 and 5. Like if I'm giving actual time. But there's a little caveat here. It has nothing to do with time. It has everything to do with information gathered. There are times where you have all the information you need in the first nine minutes of that call. Got good problems, you got impact of that problem. You got the better future they're trying to achieve. Like you've got what you need. And sometimes Russell is like, well, we got 30 minutes today so let me just keep drawing this out. I also too, I think a lot of reps ask too many questions and discovery, which I know, I think I talked about on the last episode a bit where it's like keep some of your powder. I want to ask you about the receipt collection process in more detail when we get to the receipt collection process of the demo. Right. So I want to save some of those things so it's not so much time. Did I get what I need out of it once I know what that is. If I'm saying I'm doing like the 30 minute and whatever else. So, Nick, obviously we have 10 minutes left here, but I would just feel awful not showing you anything today based off what you told me. Can I show you this receipt collection thing super quick? Like we'll go deeper on the next call, but I just, I think you're going to love this based off what you took. Can I show you that real quick before we do the next one? Whereas, like, now it's like me saying, like, hey, like, I know we're. I want. Can I show. Can I. I want to show you this thing. So I'm showing them one key thing based off of what they told me their problem was. And I'm not going too deep in it. I'm just saying, like, I just want you to see this real quick. So I want you to imagine a world or right here. Okay. Swipe the card. Boom. Transaction comes up. Armand's going to get a text message in that moment saying, please take a picture of the receipt from, you know, Papadelli's Deli. So he pulls it out, takes the picture. Boom. It's connected in there already, total locked. And if he doesn't, he's going to get a reminder in 24 hours and another one 48 hours. And guess what happens when he doesn't do it in 48 hours? That card is shut off. He can't even spend until he does. So, like, now you're not the bad guy because the software is doing it. And two year made Armand's life easier. I mean, does this kind of look like what you may be hoping to see? That was, I don't know, 90 seconds, maybe. Maybe. But, like, it gives, like, a tease there, right? Then that transitions to the last five minutes. Like, okay, so, like, let's get a full 45 minutes blocked later on this week. It may not take 45. I like to block 45. So I would never want you to feel rushed through this. I want to make sure you can ask all the questions you need to ask to feel comfortable in this. I want you to make sure this can work for you. How does Thursday or Friday look? And then we go from there.

Could you talk about end of the demo? How do you transition to next steps? And is it literally just you're going in for the next step, you're trying to multi thread, et cetera? Are you doing anything to, like, first make sure that what you showed actually resonated?

Say, like, I'm showing the demo. So one of the concepts in our big three talk about looping. So each and everything, you have to loop back to one of the problems they told you and the better future they're looking for. So every single time you're looping back, you're looping back. So if I'm showing that receipt thing, so I'm showing the receipts. Da, da. Da, da. Going through all that when I get to the end of showing that section the whole time. So like earlier you mentioned you're chasing down receipts for 14 different salespeople right now and they're not getting them back to you. Things like. So let me walk you through this. Walk through. So this will allow you to now actually do this, this and the other. So a make them hold it question would be like, so you know you can have all sorts of controls around like notifications and limits and locks around the receipts. How many reminders would you want to send before you lock out a card? Right, that'd be a make them hold it question. And then it's like, okay, so now let's, let's go there real quick. At the end of the month, you're getting all these receipts. They're already in there. How much faster do you think you'd be able to close the books if you already had the receipts instead of chasing them down? Well, God, probably knock a day or two off just like that. That's what we're here to do. I notice they said knock a day or two off, not me. They said they put like a two reminder in before it and then one great one you can always ask, especially if it's around a problem with people. So who's your problem child? Who's the rep that never does it? Oh God, that's Jenny. That jet Jenny. Jenny. I haven't seen receive a receipt from Jenny in five years. Like, all right, let's talk about Jenny today again. Make it, make them hold it is the key here. So I'm going through this and now what I'm collecting is they're telling me the benefits, they're telling me about this. So by the time I get to the end of the demo, the way we transition, always, always as we talk about in the demo, like make them want it at the end, we confirm they want it and this is whatever the next step normally is. So if that's pricing, if that's a poc, if that's a multi threading call, what, whatever it is you say. So before we talk about getting Armand on the call or before we even talk price, what do you think? Do you think this will solve XYZ better than what you're doing right now? Because if not, price doesn't even matter. Because if not getting Armand, does it even matter? If you don't think so, what do you think? Do you think this will solve it for you and your sellers? You have to get a hard yes here, a Hard yes. A hard yes is yeah. Yes. A soft guess is yeah. I mean, I think so. Back the F up. They don't believe it. You have to back up or they'll hit you with a deflection where they say, well, I mean, it depends on how much it costs. That's if you're buying the price actually doesn't matter if whether you believe it will solve the problem for you. But normally we don't ask the price for something that we don't think works. So does that mean you think it will solve it for you? Well, yeah. Right. So we pull it back and then this is one of the most important things at this question. So what do you think? Does you think this will solve X, Y, Z for you a little bit better than what you're doing right now? I want you to catch the unsell in that. Not just do you think it will solve it? Do you think you'll solve it better than what you're doing right now trying to move you away? They say, yes. This is the question why? What stood out to you?

That's really, really good. You sort of talked about, like, when they're waffling, where they're like, yeah, but how do you approach this in competitive scenarios? It's not always about, does your product solve the problem? It might solve it for them, but the competitor might solve it even better. And so I have to imagine sometimes people are like, yeah, but we're looking at a couple different options. And so I don't want to, like, you know, plant my stake in the ground and say, you're the best fit.

I was just at an event and I had the opportunity to chat with Erin Bates. She's the CRO over at Crossbeam. She said something at this table, and I was like, how have I never thought about it this way before? And she was talking about competitive deals. And she says, part of our discovery process is we find out if this is an offensive demo or a defensive demo. We assume every demo is a competitive demo. We want to know if we're the first one or second, third one, because it changes how we run the demo. Is this is an offensive demo, meaning we're on offense, or is it on defense, meaning, like, they're already talking to other people. So we are a little bit more on the defense. So we should have found this out earlier, first of all, of whether or not this is a competitive deal. Because if we know it's a competitive deal, you're covering this in the demo. You're not even letting it get to that point of like, oh, but they do this XYZ better. It's like, hey, so my assumption is if you're talking to me about leadership training, you might be talking to, to force or to winning by design, maybe sassy as well. So I'll be sure to cover some differentiators throughout this process as well. And we're going through all that, so that's one way. But if it's actually to that point in the demo where they're like, well, yeah, but it seems like they do it better. Interesting. Tell me more. How do they do it better? Now they're going to start to sharing like what the actual better is. Because is it better or is it different? That also is a huge like nuance there. So if it's at this point we should already have gotten ahead of it. But just. All right, cool, tell me a little bit more. Is that a deal breaker? Because of all the other things that we do, Is this the deal breaker? Is this the thing that makes or breaks the decision? We let people kill their own deals, we let prospects kill their own deals over things that didn't actually matter, but we never got them to kill the idea. Whereas like, well, it doesn't really do X, Y, Z and you're like, ooh, is that a deal breaker? It can do everything else, but if it can't do that, that's just a no go. Well, no, I'm just, I would. Okay, so it's not a deal breaker, right? Like there's no perfect software in the world, but at least we know this is important and we can address that down the line. So of the things it does do, what is most important? Back to the priority.

Today's show is brought to you by Nooks. Nooks is the AI powered pipeline engine that researches your accounts, builds your target list, writes your emails and gets you more live conversations on the phone. Thousands of reps at companies like HubSpot, Seismic and Deal use Nooks to automate the busy work and prospecting so they can focus on closing deals. Reps that use Nooks daily have twice as much pipeline as their peers and we put together a guide with our friends at Nooks on how to automate the business busy work in prospecting and dialing so you can focus on winning. Go get it for free at the link in the show notes. Today's show is brought to you by 11x your all in one digital GTM team handling, creating, qualifying and converting pipeline across every channel. If you are still using Stale triggers like congrats on the funding you're getting blended in with everybody else. The best use unique signals, exact LinkedIn posts, negative product reviews, podcast appearances, and use those as their trigger point. And we built a growth playbook with our friends at 11x breaking this stuff down. You can get it for free at 11x, AI backslash 30mpc or grab it in the show notes Katie, you said two things there that I think some people might perceive as contrarian viewpoints. The first one is you gave that example of, hey, I'm assuming if you're talking to me, you're probably talking to and then you actually named some of your competitors. And I remember when I was a brand new salesperson, I got taught you never, never, never say your competitors by name. And so I'm curious to hear your perspective on that. And then I'm also curious to hear your perspective. I'm thinking about demo ordering in a Bake Off. There's two schools of thought. There's the you want to go first so that you're on offense and setting the tone. But then there's also the, oh, there's the recency bias thing. You actually want to go last because that's what they remember the most. I'm curious your thoughts on actually both of those somewhat separate topics.

I always want to go first, always, zero hesitation, because it allows me to create the frame, allows me to set the standard, allows me to set the expectation. It also allows me to plant seeds of doubt. So I always want to go first, always. Because one of my favorite things to do in competitive deals is give the prospect the list of questions to ask. So if you're going to go talk to, you know, company Nick, be sure to ask X, Y and Z and make sure they show you A, B and C. What like, I'm like, you're going to talk, make sure you ask and make sure they show. So notice I didn't say we're better. I didn't say we can do things they can't do. Make sure you ask them this and make sure they show you. What do you think that does to the prospect? You're planting some seeds of doubt there already. Of like, whoa, right, like. And I go so far to print this stuff out. I have gotten feedback from competitors in the past when we know when we're in a deal against you because they ask us the questions and we get stuck. No bigger compliment because I know what their weak spots are. So that's that side on the naming of competitors. Right? This truthfully this varies if it's outbound or inbound. If it's inbound, I'm naming you inbound, which means you were searching. So for me to not name is silly. You're probably out there looking. And two, one of my favorite tools in psychology and influence with language is the two C's. Correct or confirm. So as, like, as humans, like, we can't help but correct you or confirm that you're right. So if I say so. All right, so, like, you know, reach out to us. Now, assuming you probably reached out to X, Y, and Z as well. Correct or confirm? Because if they didn't guess what they'll say. Actually, no, like, we've only reached out to. To you. Oh, perfect. Well, we just saved you a whole bunch of time. Or they'll confirm. Yeah, like, we started reaching out. Yeah, I figured you got to do your due diligence. It makes sense. I fear nothing in this. Right. And that's the key. And that, that is contagious. Right. When you're not afraid of something. I'm going to make this easier for you. I'll be sure to cover the differences between us, the nuances between us, and I should probably give you some insights to bring to them to make sure you get the most out of those conversations as well. In fact, we actually have a cheat sheet. I'll share with you after. This is fun. When you know what you're doing and, like, you lean into it. You're not afraid of it. So I always want to go first, and I will name drop because to not is, to me, shows fear. It shows, like, I'm afraid that, oh, if I say them, they're going to go look for them. No, like, and I hope that they do, like, go look, because you're about to have the best experience you've had with the seller. With me. I don't care.

Well, it's no different than the way that in the beginning of the discovery call, you are offering the options of the problems that you think they're dealing with because they're either going to confirm, yep, we're dealing with those two over there. Or they're going to correct you and say, it's actually not that. It's this. You also look better than being like, so what are your top pain points?

Right. Like, what is your biggest challenge right now? The classic what keeps you up at night for any one person? Like, and I. When I say, like, single digits, I mean single digits I can think of across the thousands and thousands of disco calls I've run And listened to where like the bucket question, when is a good one. But it's wrong that the person goes, no, I'm not dealing with any of that. No, try again. Right now, if you're a real seller in that situation, you've got three more ready like, oh, dang. So if you're not dealing with that, I mean, are you doing X, Y and Z? There you go. You got it. The suggestions make it easier. It's more natural. You get correct and confirm. You get the authority bias built in as well. You know what you're talking about. And that weaves through everywhere in the demo. Everywhere. Right. That's why even too like price, I. I want to say the realness. That's why like with the do you want it? Price doesn't matter if you don't want it. Literally could be free. Doesn't does not matter if you don't want it. That's 100% true. It's better to be a completely honest. It doesn't even matter to pull Armana because if you don't like it, ar like Nick doesn't matter if Arman likes it, you don't like it. So it doesn't even matter. You can tell me first. Right. But now I have buy it once I know you want this and why everything that comes next is to help you get what you want. You told me you want this. Yeah, I actually do. This will make my life so much easier. That receipt thing, like, I wish I had that say.

All right.

Love it. I just wanted to make sure. So the best way to make this happen for you is if we can get Armand on a call to make sure he sees it the same way we do. How can we make that happen? Notice the difference in that question. The best way to get this for you and to make your life better is that we can get Armand on a call to make sure that he sees it the way that we do. When can we make that happen?

Now.

It's about getting that boss is not about going above the person. It's not about by stepping the person. Like this is how to get you what you want. And if we don't get them on our side, you miss out. You don't get this. How can we make that happen? That's how we get to step into the next steps. The next best steps is to get legal involved. The next best steps, do a proof of concept. The next best step is to do a custom proposal. The best way to get you what you want is to do this, including if you're in super transactional starting today. So the best way to get this going is we get you started today. Could I make a recommendation on which package I think you should go with? Because if we get off the call today without taking action, what's going to happen? Nick, what's going to happen if what? The moment you get off this call, what's going to happen?

It might be buyers remorse or decision remorse. They're going to disappear, they're going to get busy.

Right? And I like we say that type of stuff of like if we don't take action today, what I'm afraid of is you're going to step back into the world. You're going to be chasing down receipts again. You're going to be hunting down Jenny because she never sends it in. You're going to be in meetings with your CFO Armand, trying to figure out the books and you're going to get back into the message. If we can get you going today, we can start to solve that for you today. Can we get you moving?

Right.

So again, completely honest. Everything I said there is true. Everything I said there is true. If we don't take action today, I am worried I never hear from you again. Not because you don't care, but because you're busy. Right. Each one of those things sets up whatever that next step is, is to help them get what they want.

Katie, this has been another phenomenal episode. The clock is ticking. We got to move to the last question, which is talked about good things sellers should be doing. Now we got to talk about one bad thing. So the last question is what's one bad habit that you see a lot of salespeople exhibiting that you think they need to break because it hurts them more than it helps.

It's just not asking the real question. You know, they don't ask the question behind the question. That's where I spend time is what's the question behind the question? So if you're asking. So walk me through your email process right now you're hoping you hear a problem in that question. What's the question behind the question? What are you actually trying to find out? Ask that question. Just go there. Stop trying to hear the problem in the answer. Ask the problem question. That would be my biggest right. What's the question behind this? Like what do you think? What is that question? What's the question behind the question? It's like, do you want this? That's the real question is in there. That would be the one. I would say ask the question behind the question. Stop asking these questions up here that don't do anything for you.

Amazing. Katie, thank you for joining us, everybody. Stick around for a 60 second recap coming up soon.

All righty, Nick, it's time for a 2x2 recap from this episode with KD. What do you have for your two?

Number one is your framework for exactly what to say anytime you are showing a feature in a demo, it is KPICK plus make them hold it. So what you're going to do is as you show a feature, you're going to explain what you know about their current situation and the problems that that situation is causing and then the impact of those problems. Then you're going to connect the dots as it relates to how your solution or that feature makes those problems go away. And then you're going to ask them to hold that feature. Okay, so I've just shown you these dashboards. I guess what would some of the main analytics you would put on your home screen be? Make them visualize what it would be like to actually use your product. Number two is assuming we can solve this, what would that mean? And so what you're doing is when you're talking with your prospect, you should never come in with 100% conviction and bravado that you can absolutely make their problem go away. Because when you do that, they're going to have to be skeptical. Otherwise they're just letting themselves be sold by a salesperson who of course they think their thing is going to solve their problem. So instead to tee up the demo, what you want to do is you want to say, okay, so assuming we can solve some of these brand perception issues, I guess, what would that actually look like? How would the quality of your conversations with prospects change? And now what you're doing is you're saying, hey, assuming we make this problem go away, because I think we might, but let's actually validate that, how would that change the goal, the future state that I know you're looking to have? And now you get them visualizing where they're looking to go and they're no longer skeptical about, well, is this solution actually a right or not? Now you're on the same side of the table in the demo.

Today's show is brought to you by Text Us, which helps you move your deals forward faster. When timing matters, the fastest way to move a deal forward is to avoid getting stuck in the inbox. And so my favorite way to get on a text basis is literally when you're prospect requests a demo, just send them a confirmation Text saying that you're looking forward to the meeting, and that opens the text channel for you to call back on it later, folks. We put an entire guide on how to revive ghosted deals, Nudge next steps and use texting to keep deals moving forward with text us. Check it out. It's free in the show notes. Number three. Best way to make them hold it during a demo is to ask them, all right, who's your problem child? Okay, it's Nick who never actually submits the correct receipts. So let's just pretend that Nick is the one who's submitting a receipt right here. Here's what that looks like. Put the people in the organization into the demo. And then lastly, number four, once you get ready to set next steps, always set next steps and multi thread in their best interest. That sounds like. Okay, so the best way to solve this for you is for us to get Jane on board with the way that we see things here. How do we get her involved? Notice we're not saying the best way for us to close this deal is to get to your boss. The best way to solve this problem for you is to make sure that Jane sees it the same way that we see things. That gets you on the same side. All right, Nick, how could people help us out here?

So, folks, if you didn't catch on, this whole month was 30mpc discovery month. And the reason that we are doing this very special month is we recently released the 3030 MPC Discovery Course where we codified all of the best practices that Armand and I have Learned interviewing over 250 top performers in sales into an extremely easy to follow, step by step framework that teaches you what to do, what to say, and how to sound in every single piece of your discovery call. If you want to check that out, there is a link in the show notes to do so. It would warm my heart if you would, but otherwise, we will see you next week on 30 minutes to President's Club.