The Game-Changing Power of Video Introductions in Job Applications

Every company has breakdowns in their revenue process. Sure thing. Deals slip into next quarter, competitors creep in and swipe deals away at the last minute, and deals getting single threaded that don't get to power. These are just a few examples of revenue leak, but there are a ton more and they're preventing your team from reaching their sales targets. That's why I'm such a big fan of Clary's Revenue platform is the only tool that actually helps leaders take control of their revenue and thrive through any market conditions. Especially when things get tough. You can't afford to miss a single detail, but you also can't be leading by gut. Clary combines the science and the art of sales and sales leadership. So go to clary.com if you want to answer the most important question in your business. Are you going to meet beat or Miss on revenue? Welcome to the live Better Sell Better podcast with your host Kevin Dorsey of Inside Sales Excellence, the number one Patreon group and YouTube channel for tech sellers and tech sales leaders where we dive in deep for tactical advice on how to book more meetings, close more deals faster and lead sales teams to success. But we don't stop there. We also focus on the person in salesperson. We talk about mindset goals, time management and so much more. So thank you for listening and if you're interested, head on over to patreon.com InsideSalesExcellence now with that, grab a notepad, get ready and let's dive into the good stuff. What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the live Better Sell Better podcast. This is your host Kevin Dorsey, AKA AKD and we are starting our return series. We are bringing back some of the best of the best guests that we have had on this show because something that has always bothered me about podcasts is you'll have a phenomenal guest once you don't think they had more to share. You don't think they had more insights, more ideas, more topics than that. 35 minutes and so I've always wanted to do a return series and that is what we are kicking off with with my man James say what? Buckley, right? Leading content, leading things over it. You know, sell better with Barrows and everything else and just an overall amazing human being that has more to share with us. Now if you haven't listened to his original episode, go back and listen. But today what we are diving into is hiring. It is a different market right now. We have gone the full pendulum swing back. It used to be a candidates market where just money was getting thrown at people. You put your Finger up and find a job. Companies were struggling of, like, how can we get people. They're leaving too fast. And it has shifted. It is now a hiring company's market. It is now an interviewer's market. It is harder. There are hundreds of applicants every single job. And what we're going to talk about today is the balance of this, of how should companies be approaching hiring right now, but also how should candidates be approaching hiring right now? Where they are not being taken advantage of, where they are not settling, where they do not let companies lean on them and take advantage. So welcome back, My man James. I'm so pumped from this. Let's do this, dude.

Let's go. I'm pumped about this conversation. This has been heavy on my mind lately. You know, Katie, I think that if I had to tell you the truth, I would say that I probably get five to 10 a week from two people. I get people looking for good candidates that are hiring, and I get candidates that need open roles. And I'm amazed at how often this relationship falls apart so soon.

Mm. Let's start on the candidate side because there are. There are a lot of people that have been hit by layoffs. There are a lot of people that are looking right now. If you go on LinkedIn right now and you look at, like, an AE role posted in the last 48 hours, it will have 200 some applicants already in 48 hours. So start on the candidate side, right? What are you hearing there? What are you seeing? And then let's start to get into what they should be doing.

Okay, So I see a couple of bad habits that are causing candidates to struggle. The first and probably the most prominent bad habit is that they see an open role and they do one of two things. They click the Apply now button on whatever site they might be using, which basically sends a bucketed resume to that employer with a templated email. It's very generic. The second thing I see them do is they go to the websites and they go through this big, long process of filling out an application, and that's it. They take no further steps. They make no further inquiries. And what they do is, and I'm quoting my friend Roderick Jefferson here, they hope. They hope that this employer gets back to them. And as we all know from my friend Roderick, hope is not a strategy. Right? You have to have a strategy behind your outreach. Getting a job as a sales professional is just like working a sales cycle. And they have got to be able to sell themselves the way they're going to sell the product. What does this mean? It means you can't just fill out the application. You also have to Go Connect on LinkedIn. You also have to find them on other social platforms and engage with their content. You need to be the only candidate that not just filled out an application, but made an effort, sent an email, reached out on LinkedIn, Cold called me, right? This piece of the puzzle is the puzzle piece that will get you the job you desire most. Those are probably the two biggest mistakes that I see.

So let's keep going down there because I agree 100%. Like, there are people in my network that I'm trying to help find, you know, gigs and they reach out for help and they say, yeah, I'm applying. I'm not hearing anything. I was like, you don't apply to a job.

Yeah, that's like step one, like applying.

Like, no, you have to be introduced, you have to be asked, you have to be welcomed into that application process. So what are some of the things? Let's go a little bit deeper. I'm like, well, how do you stand out? Because you see this people, oh, you got to stand out in the hiring process. Connect well, how? Let's go a little bit deeper there.

Amen. And I'm happy to do it. I talked about social, connecting on social, huge impact there, right? But if you're connecting on social, I hope that you've also created some content somewhere that lets that employer believe that you are capable, qualified, educated, experienced and or hungry enough to be those things in the very near future. This is part and parcel to being a complete employee. That's what employers are after today. So candidates have to do things that stand out so that they can represent the fact that they are the well rounded sales professional that this company needs. Because it's a journey, it's quite a long journey, I might add. People do not become the top salesperson at an organization in a week and a half, in a month and a half, in a year. It takes years to get there. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, right. If I'm reaching out for a new role that I desire, first of all, I know the company, what they sell. I'm already connected to about 17 people at that company. I've talked to them and been like, do you like it there? Right? Like, am I going to be happy there? These are steps you can take. Those people go directly to their leaders and they say, hey, this person reached out and asked me how I like working here. Are they. I really like this person. That internal cheerleader could be the Thing that earns you that initial interview right over the hundreds of candidates that potentially filled that application out and then hoped that this person would call them back. Let's talk more about cold calling because I think this is the defining factor for SDRs in the space right now that are candidates. Cold calling is not required to be successful as an sdr. I'm going to say that again. It's not required, but it fucking helps, right? If you are a great cold caller, that leader will take that call. You will have a strong intro, you will transition well into why you're calling and you will ask them for the next steps and nail down that meeting time. This is cornerstone for you to be able to say, hey, in the interview. I would literally start with thanks for taking my cold call the other day. I'm really happy we got to set this up. This is like a sales leader's dream. They're like, this guy is amazing. This girl is amazing, right? Like, if she does this with my prospects, we can't lose. This is the way that they think and they want to see it in action in real time. And here's why. This is going to fuck people's brains up. We are all very good at selling ourselves. We are not very good at selling the products and services we represent. And the problem, I've said it before, the problem with hiring salespeople is that you don't know if they can actually sell something until after you hire them. So the candidate has to present themselves. Well, let me give you another strategy, another tactic, another do this and it will help you to get the job you want. Tell them how you're going to succeed. Show them your email messaging, run through role playing scenarios with them voluntarily. Bring it up first and say, let's go, I'll cold call you. You ready? Let's do it. This makes them feel like you can actually perform when they give you the job instead of being like, here's my resume and you can see that I hit 210% of my quota month over month consistently for three years at my last company. In my brain I'm like, great. How come you were never promoted? And the reason they weren't promoted or moved forward is one of two reasons. One, I was very complacent in my job and I didn't want the job, didn't want it. Well, now you've just labeled yourself as somebody that's not hungry to me, right? And I don't want anybody complacent on my team. We have to be very comfortable Being uncomfortable on my team. If I'm a sales leader, right, because shit's going to change fast. Or the other scenario is I'm a toxic employee. Even though I'm a high performer, I didn't get along with my colleagues, my peers, my leaders. So I never got the opportunity to move forward. I don't want that person on my team either. I'm not trying to get into verbal arguments with my employees every day. Candidates, represent yourself as a serious professional that can demonstrate that you can do the job. Every step of the way through the hiring process, you will get the jobs that you want.

And that's where, you know, I think what's happening right now is. It's so missed is because we have such a significant portion of the SaaS sales market right now that was hired over the last three to four years so they didn't have to do these things. So now you have people saying things like, well, why should I have to do that? Or wait, you want me to create a project before this job? Why? And it's like, this is your career.

Well, let me push back on you on that one. I hear it all the time. I have to push back. I don't agree with people giving individuals projects that lead to revenue before they hire.

Oh, God, no. God, no, no, no, no, no. I don't mean a project like that.

You're saying, write an email for me and send it to me.

Write an email, send me a video.

You should definitely have to do this.

I agree with that. I've, you know, I. People come after me all the time for like, you know, opportunities and jobs. And this happened like last year when I was consulting, you know, a company came after me pretty hard and I was like, let's have the conversation. They're like, all right. Like, you know, put together a 90 day plan for us on how you would X, Y, Z revenue. I said, cool, here are my fees. They're like, well, what do you mean? That's consulting. What do you mean? Like, these are my fees. So, no, not projects, not that. But there's also too full circle back on this. If you do this proactively, they're not asking you to do it. Okay. If you put together your best emails, put together your best calls, put together a packet of you performing and you proactively share that, there's no project to ask for at that point. People are not going above and beyond to land jobs right now. They're not.

That's 100% true. Laziness and expectation and entitlement. I went to college, I got a degree, so that earns me a job. No, sir. No, ma'. Am. You must step forward. You must be the graduate that is different than the other graduates all the time. Imagine you're a sales leader, kd. And this is the email you got. Kd, I've researched your company deeply and I love what your product can do for their customers. I believe I could sell best to the ICPs that I think you sell to, which are X, Y and Z. Because I fit their mold in these ways. I would love to talk about the open role you've posted. Let me know when we connect. I'll call you tomorrow at 2pm If I don't hear back today, that sales leader is like, one of two things. I'm gonna respond to this and be like, this is the best candidate email I've ever gotten. Or they're gonna wait and see how the call goes.

James, I have been leading sales teams for almost 13 years now. How many of those do you think I've gotten in my career? Not zero. In my career.

Zero. My man.

I've gotten three. Gotten three.

Three. Okay.

Hey, 14 years, right? So this isn't like this. This is 13 years.

That's a long time to get three.

Three. I hired two of them. Like, this does not happen. And I think what happens on LinkedIn sometimes, and you know this too, because you do a lot of content, is because people see the content, they think everyone's doing it, when the reality is most people aren't actually doing it. Most people aren't actually using video. Most people are not actually standing out in the candidate process. Most people are not actually doing these things. It's not. I made a post literally just yesterday. I'm hiring for a director of sales right now. Right? Made this post. It's blowing up right now. It's awesome. But the call to action was, send me a video. The call to action was send me a video on what lights you up as a leader and what, like, why you think you'd be a good fit for this right now. This is for a Director of Sales role. The amount of people that did not follow that instruction, it's hilarious to me. It's. I actually laugh.

All the DMs, all the emails, no videos, right?

Like, I've got like, I'm up to like 30 some videos right now, which is great. I've got another 30 that were like, oh, I'd love to talk. Oh. I was like, first step, send the video. People don't. They don't do it. So let's keep going down this process because there's first, there's getting in, right?

Okay.

So I did. I stood out. I got to the interview. The interview didn't get you the job. You got the interview. Now let's talk about how do you need to interview differently in today's market because it is competitive. You know, There are the 200 applicants, which means there will be 30 people interviewing for this two roles, these three roles. How do I interview differently to make sure that I stand out?

So my opinion, and this is just my opinion speaking, is that I would appreciate it as a hiring manager if a candidate came in and started the conversation off by saying, it's nice to meet you. Thank you for the time and all the small talk. And then there are me. And I was like, you know, thanks for coming in. We appreciate it. My question that I want to hear from the candidate is, what's this process look like? And how do I make it to the front of the list? That hunger and that direct ask is a great example of a salesperson that understands how to expedite a process and make it meaningful for the customer. I'm the customer as the leader that's sitting across the table from this human. So I want to feel that sense of how do I win your heart across the table? Today, that question would probably be the best place to start. What does this process look like for hiring? Maybe you could say, how many other candidates? But if you're like me, you don't care about competition. Instead, you just focus on the goal. And the goal is to get this person to like me for the job that is available. So what is the process and how do I make it to the front is a great kickoff. Here's where I think people drop the ball. Most people have a bar they set financially, and that is tough in the initial interview. You might have a second interview where compensation is discussed. I'll caution candidates never be the person to bring up compensation. Instead, let them bring the compensation to you first and then counter offer. Don't accept the first thing they give you. That's silly. Especially if it's lower than what your bar is. But what happens is people have a bar they set. Let's say it's 50,000 plus commission. Just throwing a simple number out there to keep it easy. If you're an SDR, that's a pretty common salary. I think, as an SDR in the modern world, it used to be about 30, but we won't talk about what it used to be now it's 50 plus commission. Okay, fine. Don't let that leader offer you 35 and be happy with it. If you settle, you're going to spend the next two years in that same role trying to get to that 50 mark that you set years ago. Instead, be a hard ass about what the mark is that you've set for your lifestyle. Because that's what compensation is really about. How does this employer measure up to meeting me where I want to be in my lifestyle? That's what's going to keep me there long term. That's what's going to keep me wanting to grow and progress with this one company. Because that's what success looks like, a lifestyle that we enjoy living. That's the definition of success for me.

So I'm going to throw this back because I am a hiring manager, right? So I run teams. I'll throw this back. Not as a disagreement, as a reality. If a company's offer is their offer and there are 30 candidates and there are 10 that get to that point, what are your viewpoints on not either call it not lowering the bar or negotiating and not getting the job? Because in my career I've actually approached it almost the other like, dude, get me in once. I'm gonna fuck shit up once I'm in there. Get me in. I'd like your thoughts there because it could go both ways where it's like, no, I'm going to negotiate this because like for me, I know it's different for other companies. For me, my roles are non. They're not negotiable.

Right. This is the compensation. I'm not going to wiggle on it. I'll go find a candidate that'll take it. Right? And a lot of companies feel this.

Like this is the comp I want to pay my people. Because in sales, comp comes from over performance. I don't care how good you've been the last three years, you've got zero years experience with me. So you're coming in at everybody else. You overperform. Yeah. Over perform. You go that I might negotiate accelerators. That's the the only place I'll negotiate in compensation if we get to that point. But what are your thoughts there? Negotiate or get in?

I'm supportive of what you're saying here. Would be my response if you told me the compensation is what it is and it doesn't move? My response would be, well, let me ask you this question. Would you like a $30,000 employee that comes in and does what they're supposed to do for $30,000. My mark is 50,000. Because I'm going to go above and beyond every day moving forward. You're going to see things from me that you didn't even know were happening. So you can choose a $30,000 employee that's going to come in and hit that $30,000 goal, or you can pay somebody 50k and watch them destroy the goals that you put in front of them and help others succeed as well. Because I love to teach individuals. That's me as an individual, and that's a skill set I have to motivate others. Use the things that you can do once you're in the door as leverage to earn that consideration. Even if they don't come up to the 50k, they might come up to 40, they might come up to 45. And then you can say, amazing. I'm so glad you guys decided to be flexible about this. My question to you is, if I'm still aiming for 50, can we put a timeline together that helps me to get there along with some milestones. You become a planner. You become somebody that understands the long game in that moment. That is not even a $50,000 employee, buddy. That's a $75,000 employee within a year.

I just, I wanted to get the take there because it's a thin line to walk.

But you'll notice that this is about confidence, pal. I am extremely confident when I say these things. Most sellers are extremely apprehensive about overstepping a boundary. Look at how many jobs are available. This is not necessary. Be yourself, be authentic. Be confident in what you're asking for. Because employers are going to want you to be confident when you're asking your prospects for shit.

Because it's funny, like, as I look at, like hiring and who tends to succeed and who does not. What I'm looking for more than anything is execution. Everyone says the same things in the interview process. Everyone says every. They say the same things in the. Everybody does, right? That is where I would say, if we take Composite, if you find the right company, the right leadership, the right development, the right product, all of those things, I'll just throw this out as a point. It might be worth getting in and earn your way up. Because the beauty is in sales. Like the way you're describing it, you know, like, you can get to 50k if you over perform, right? Because that would be the only counterpoint is, all right, you want 50k, then I have to raise your quota because I can't pay you more to do what other people are doing than the quota.

My response would be, go ahead, raise it. Let's go there.

As long as people understand comp follows value. I would say for those, like, confidence comes like from execution. I'm confident in myself to go in and execute where it's like, hey, all right, how do I get to 50? Well, you got to be at 142% of your quota. Okay?

My new goal is 200%.

The only reason I would count because I just want people to be careful because in a company market, meaning, like one of my favorite quotes on leadership and life actually comes from Ray Dalio and he said the leaders and companies that understand reality the best win. They understand reality the best. And I love that. Right? Because the reality is there are 50 candidates in the pool now, not you. The reality is all companies are focused on cost efficiency and like, you know, profitability. That is the reality. I just want people to be careful that they don't talk their way out of a job that they could have had because they get too into the nitty gritty on some of these things. That's the only thing that I will just caution people with. That's my only caution.

I agree with that cautionary tale and I'll throw. Let's move to the interviewer side here because there's two sides to this table. We've talked a lot about the candidate side. I want to talk about the person actually doing the hiring now. And I think you'll relate to this. I heard a stat from gb. Her newsletter on one on ones has been fantastic. I don't know if you've been following along with her, but man, I just love the stuff that's in her brain. And one of the things that she said was 70% of employees would drop their current company no matter how long they've worked there. For another company that they feel is investing in their progress, future development and success, 70% is not peanuts. That's a big employer market out there for 70% of people. Imagine like you have no resource for growth and development and then along comes this other company that maybe is going to pay you less on a monthly basis, but they're going to provide a path for you that gets you to that six figure salary that you've struggled to get to for the last four years. They're going to put a path in front of you that helps you to get to that special financial comfort that you've been after for you and your family and your kids. Financial futures. These companies that do this retain their Employees at such a higher level because their employees come first over the numbers. The numbers are required for the employees to be happy and the employees understand this relationship. So there's this problem that we see, this broken relationship between candidate and hiring manager where hiring manager wants the best possible employee. But that means they're hiring somebody and working towards them, not working for them one day because they're going to move departments, they're going to move up, they're going to start their own team, they're going to. That's the way it's supposed to go, right? If you've worked with somebody underneath you for five years and they've never taken that step forward, if it's voluntarily, that's fine. But if they've never taken that step forward because you never gave them the opportunity, what are you doing with this human right? Like shouldn't you be helping them grow professionally? That's your job, man. So the company, 70% will leave no matter how long they've been. Just because this other stranger company came to me and was like, no, no, we have a bigger future in mind for you. That's what got me to John. That's what got me with Chris Merrill. They were like, no, no, we see something here so let's run with it. And I will run with them until he will have to fire me. I will make it uncomfortable.

I believe it. No, and I think that is important because you know, people do, they want more than money. But you do need to give them that path. That is something that we talk about like in our interview process is like, this is the path. This is how you go from SDR to senior SDR to principal, SDR to junior AE to AE to AE to, to senior to principal. Like we, like this is the path. It is there.

I like that you lay it out for people so they can see it. They have to be able to see it for what it is and not have that unrealistic expectation.

You know, this is the path, this is what you have to do to hit it. And all of my promo paths are result based, not timeline based. Meaning if you're over performing, you hit those marks earlier. If you're underperforming, it takes you longer to get to those marks. That just is what it is. I don't care if you've been in.

The wrong, you can see this in waves. If you're watching the performance in the metrics in your CRM, if you're tracking, hopefully you're tracking. If you're a leader, if you're not tracking. I don't know what you're doing, but if you're tracking the metrics, what you'll see is, you'll see at the end of the month, the folks that are struggling to hit the number will have really high activity at the end of the month. And it's because they feel that pressure, that looming end coming their way and they're like, I really got to get it in gear because if I don't hit it, then I have to talk about it in my one on one with kd. And I don't want to do that because I've been slacking for like two weeks. Let's. I really got to hit it, right? So they hit it. If you look at the people that hit quota early, they hit it at the beginning of the market month and they push really hard for those first three weeks of every month. And that's why two and a half weeks in, they have already hit the number. And everything else is just like butter, you know, they're just like, you know, really hitting the number and then moving forward. But like everything else is just extra for me. Watch your metrics, look at every individual's performance and find the patterns in the data and then you'll know how to coach to that.

I mean, that's a whole another topic, you know, episode right there. So, you know, we've talked about, you know, hiring, we've talked about standing out, we've talked about interviewing, we've talked about connecting with people. A bonus tip on that, I literally speaking with one of my former team members just yesterday on this of like, if you're trying to get in front of a vp, get in front of a manager. But then this is the magic question, y', all, please write this down before you apply going, hey, do y' all offer referral bonuses there? Would it be helpful if I put your name down as a referral? So if I get the role, you're getting that 5k or that one 2k bonus. So get, that's why you reach out to people because they may have an internal referral program that if it does. But guess what happens if there's a referral filled out in that application? It gets bummed up to the top of the pile. So like connect with people.

That's a slack message. Hey, Bill, this is, you're going to.

See a Kevin Dorsey come through. Like had a great chat with him. Think they could be great. Now you're in. You need the introduction. So we've talked about how to stand out. We've talked about, you know, kind of things to look for in the interview process, how to interview better. We've talked a little bit on negotiation. Let's keep going down. We made the switch then to companies. What else should companies be doing right now to kind of bridge this gap between, you know, candidate and company?

Yeah. Look for the digital footprint. Digital footprints have. It's a big, broad stroke of the pen. What does it mean? It's not a personal brand and it's not social selling. This is different. A digital footprint is a representation of yourself on multiple platforms. Where does this person actively participating in conversations that could benefit our organization? James is extremely active on Twitter, but if you look at his LinkedIn profile, that's his dominant channel. But he also has admin ships in five Facebook groups that have over 10,000 people in them. So he can post in those groups anytime. Mad value to a big swath of people. Look for how big this candidate's digital footprint is and that's how you'll measure the impact they'll have on your target audiences. If I sell to a younger generation, I hope I'm being active on TikTok because the younger generation is very active there. If I sell to a millennial generation, I'm hoping that I find this person on places like Facebook and Instagram because those are popular for that generation. But if I sell to C level executives, well, you'll know that there's only one place where you're going to find the majority of Those and it's LinkedIn. So you can see how generationally and role wise those channels act. Look for the digital footprint. Make sure that that footprint is relevant to your target audience before you decide to call that candidate in. Now let me be very clear. Just because you can't find somebody's social media platform does not mean that they're not going to be a fantastic sales human. That's not what that means. Somebody could come in fresh out of college, maybe no college at all. Look at Jed Marley. Holy crap. I mean, that guy came straight out of high school and he just has the gift, you know, he just became director of sales. Like, that's amazing. I think he's like 25, maybe. Like, that's insane. Maybe younger. Like possibly younger. Like, just because you can't find something on somebody doesn't mean it's not worth a conversation. But know that until you find a digital footprint that's relevant to your target audience, having them come in for an official interview might not be your best option. Have a conversation first. Cold call that candidate pick up the phone and dial their phone number. How do they react? Right? Are they prepared? Did they, Are they ready to have this conversation? These are great indicators for you that this human is going to be great for your team, your growth, your goals, the things you want to do in your company, the numbers that you'd like to hit this quarter. That is a great step to take. Engage with the candidate before you call them in HR departments. Please listen to me. You are wasting your time just going through the motions and calling people that have degrees. Degrees do not equal sales skills or personality traits that are conducive to sales. Stop this. Look at these humans before you waste your time.

Because that's the, you know, kind of to the reality. Actually, I'll throw back a question here. What are the filters? Because again, in a hiring, in a market like today, that job post goes up. It's not a. I can't cold call the candidates. There's going to be 400 of them. What's the filter look like to help narrow it down for you? Is it asking about their socials? Right now it's a filtering problem where like there's too many applicants for a role. And so now it's like, I've got 200 applicants. Like, how the hell do I, how do I even start, right?

So first I would not start with calls and qualification calls for candidates. That to me seems like a heavy lift. Instead what I would do is I would go through the applications that I get and even the emails that I'm getting because some people do take that extra step, send that email. Hey, I'm really interested in the role. I'd like to learn more. When can we connect, right? These are great steps to take. But instead look at the resume they've sent you. Look at their social profiles. And here's some key things that I believe are great indicators this person might be a good fit for an interview. One sorority or fraternity in college. The reason for this is because those are social organizations. There is a lot of exposure to strangers. That is a level of comfort salespeople have to develop. Sorority and fraternity folks already have this baked in because they do events, because they constantly need funding and talk to people about the parties they throw and the thing strangers coming at them at all. Hey, what's up? You know, they just have that it's baked in for them when they come out of college. Sorority, fraternity, great indicators. Here's another one. Volunteer work. Volunteer work indicates this person is giving. What does this mean? This means they're not Going to have a problem giving to my prospects, which adds value. That indicates this person might understand the concept of a give without the expectation of receiving. And that's going to look really good when I go back to my prospects and say, hey, thanks, how'd you guys find us? Right. Oh, you know, Sarah called me and she sent me this great guide and we ended up having this conversation. And before I knew it, I was looking at your product and I love everything it does. These are great stories from prospects from customers that I've heard in the past. And this is another one, this is the third one that I think people should look at. Are they involved in some level of recreational activity, whether that's sports or poker leagues? Like I've seen a lot of different, like oh yeah, I do this thing and it's their hobby. It's something they do as a. I'm passionate about this, but it doesn't provide me revenue. I do it because I love it. Sports is probably the best example of this. These people know how to play as a team. They know how to help others succeed. They know how to have positive relationships internally and externally. These are great things to look for in a candidate. Here's what you don't want. You don't want somebody that has worked behind the counter at a fast food establishment for four years and that's their only experience. Chances are good these are order takers. That is a tough thing for you to teach them. But these people also deal with a lot of assholes. Fast food customers are assholes. I have literally had people ask me to remake them food and then throw it at me when I turn my back. They know how to handle a difficult prospect. Once again, not everything is black and white. Humans are strange animals that are different as individuals. And we have to be as HR humans, people that are looking for talent. We have to be diligent about knowing who those people are and finding out if that personality, that characteristic, that human is a fit for my target audience. And if they are, bring them on, train them as best you can and watch them win.

These are the places that I'm, you know, wondering like, you know, how AI can start to help with some of the filtering. These are the three characteristics that we look for. Give us three examples, right? And then being able to quickly look at sentiment. There we go. Not sentiment, that's. Look at all those things to try to help, to filter, you know, to go through. Because it is, it's like there's so much of it that comes, comes with it. So then lastly, as we kind of wrap on this, like what else? Like if we think about wrapping this topic, like what's the piece we haven't touched on yet, whether the candidate or the company to try to help make this entire system better.

Yeah, and this is going to go back to something you mentioned earlier and it's twofold. It works on both sides of the fence here. Be realistic about ramp time. This is probably one of the most convoluted and strange misunderstandings that I see see between candidates that have come on and they're brand new to the role and leaders that put really unrealistic goals in front of people that are new. Sometimes you can base it on experience. I'll be honest, if somebody has SaaS experience, they're probably going to ramp a little faster. You know, you can put a three month ramp plan in front of somebody that has five years of SaaS sales experience from SDR to AE, they're probably going to win. They're going to understand three months, four months, they're going to be ready to rock. But somebody that came from behind the counter at McDonald's, they might struggle to do things that are really simple, like open your email and compose an email for me. Go format your signature in your emails so that it's a standard and the same every time. These simple things are challenging for people that don't have software experience, people that don't have, you know, that professional experience in their background. So you have to gauge a ramp. That's, that's, that makes sense for the individual. It can't be a blanket statement. You're not going to get the same success out of a three month ramp period from somebody that has five years of SaaS experience and somebody who, this is their first job ever. I've never even sat in front of a computer before. This is the first time for me. Those two candidates that you hired are going to ramp very differently. So that's from the leadership side, the people that hired from the personnel side. Be realistic about your ramp. Do not listen to that leader when they say this is a foot in the door and in a year you'll be an AE and none of this prospecting stuff will matter. That is not true. You will always need to prospect. This job never stops. If you're an sdr, you're an SDR for life. That's not something you do on the side or only for a year. No, no. You're in sales, you prospect constantly. So know that it's unrealistic for you to come in super Amped about a job for three months. And then when they say, hey, how do you like it six months in? You're like, if I'm not an AE by the end of the month, I'm going to quit. That's stupid. You're not being realistic, man. It's like drinking from a fire hose. When you start a new job, it takes a lot of time to learn all the things. A year just to learn the companies, the prospects, the ICPs, the product, the service, the features, the functions, the impact, the messaging, the language. It's a year just to get there. Forget promotion within 365 days. That is unrealistic, especially for inexperienced candidates.

If people started looking at ramp as skill development and not performance, I think it would change a lot of things.

That is gold. I hope that you put that on a fucking plaque somewhere.

Ramp for me is not about production. Ramp is about how long does it take to develop the skills necessary to perform. That's how I look at my ramp. So my ramp is the same for everybody, but it's because it's skill based. This is how long it should take you to get good at this thing. Now, if you come in more experience, then you're going to get good at it faster, which is great. But at the same time, if you don't get good at it by this time, I know we're not going to, because this is. You're getting the practice, you're getting the scripting, you're getting the feedback, you're getting the repetition repetitions necessary. We make those things achievable to go through. But ramp to me is all about skill development and like, taking that. Because I was on a webinar a few months ago now and the topic got brought of like one, it was about like SDRs got brought up of like, what percentage of SDRs are hitting quota? And it was like 50. Some percent of SDRs are hitting quota. That may have been 40% or something like that. Then the very flip point became of like, all right, well, like, how do we speed up ramp times? And you know why? It shouldn't take three months to ramp and SDRs. No, no, no. See y', all, this lets me know you don't know what you're talking about, because ramp. If you define ramp as getting to quota, wouldn't that mean 60% of SDRs never ramp? They're never getting to quota. So you can't talk to me about speeding up ramp time if the fact of the matter is no one's ever ramping they're not getting to their number, right? What people normally define as a ramp is either when they're out of onboarding or like, when they get their first deal or like their first three opera that's not ramped. They didn't get to quota. They never ramped. And like, that, to me, is one of the biggest holes.

I agree with you, man. Before we wrap, I want to give everyone in the audience my favorite interview tip. This is how I hired salespeople. When I was hiring SDRs, I would have lunch with them, and I would get there 20 minutes early, and I would tell the waitress, no matter what this person orders, mess their food up. I want to see how they react. If they say nothing, I probably won't hire this person. They will never overcome an objection, ever. If they're rude to that server, they're going to be rude to my prospects. You're out. But if they handle it professionally, if they're kind and they get their problem resolved, this is my person, yo.

It's a classic right there. It's a classic. So. All right, my man. Well, we're going to wrap. And you know the last question that we're going to go through here, right? Because the name of the podcast is Live Better Sell Better, right? I have that weird idea, right, that if we had more energy, more fulfillment, right? All that, that if we lived better, this selling also improves. What would be your parting Live Better advice to everybody listening?

Guard your time well. Guard your time well. If it's not blocked off on your calendar, whether personal or professional, it doesn't exist in your life. I do not work a 9 to 5 because I sell internationally. When my clients need me, I'm on Stop living the nine to five. It's a myth. It doesn't exist. Success goes no matter what time of day it is. So run full sprint towards success and stop looking at the clock.

I love it. Guard your time, Protect your time, but be proactive. I like my big ones. Be intentional with your time. We have the same amount of time. It's the intention behind the time that is going to drive it. So, my man, thank you. See, I knew you had more than just one episode in yet. My guess is you've got like 49 episodes. Go for. But as always, man, I appreciate the insight, the energy, the engagement, everything else, man. Keep doing what you're doing, man. I appreciate you.

Thank you, kd.