The Master of Motivation - Emmy Johnson

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What an intro. I swear, Kevin, you're like my hype boy. You should be.

I'll do it.

I should just pay you to be my hype boy wherever I go. This is great.

I'm in. You know, like, I might just do that just before you walk into a room, I'm just the one that walks in, lets people know what's happening, carry my personal fog machine. It'll be phenomenal.

Fog machines. The things I'm down.

Hell, yes. Well, so what people love about this show, Emmy, is we don't do the fluff. We get right into the good stuff. And so I want to start off with a pretty loaded question. See where this goes, but how do you get the most out of your team? Let's start there and watch where this conversation goes.

That is an extremely loaded question. Ask me tomorrow. I may have a different answer. I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with, like, my management style. I feel very fortunate that, you know, the reps that work under me and the managers that work under me are very loyal to me. And I think a lot of that has to come from kind of my personality, you know, as, you know, like, I think Christine at Topo said I was like, the female version of you, which I take as a huge compliment. Katie. I'm just saying I'll take it.

I'll take it.

But I. You know, I think a lot of people are familiar with book Radical Candor by Kim Scott. Like, I think that I kind of naturally lead like that, where, if you haven't read the book, it's basically the intersection of, like, giving tough feedback but also caring personally and so finding that, like, balance of the two. So if you just give tough feedback and don't care, you're just an asshole, basically, bottom line. And then if you care too much but don't give feedback because you care too much and you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, then you're kind of weak, and, like, the person never knows where they stand. And so it's kind of finding those balances, too. And I think I kind of do that naturally, which is why I feel like I'm very fortunate enough to have a lot of loyalty and the People that work for me. And I do think that's part of the reason that I'm able to demand respect and demand kind of the outcome that I'm looking for is because I'm able to give tough feedback. But they know it's coming from a good place. So I can. I do ask them, like, I do know what's going on, how the weekend was, what's going on with their family. I'm very. I care. But I can also be like, yo, dude, you're fucking up. You're not like, what's going on? And they're not like, crying and taking personally. It's almost like that, you know, parent, like, I'm disappointed in you. Like, I really, like, messed up. Like, mom's mad at me. What do I do? But I'm able to do that, I think, because of the way I interact with them. So getting the most out of your team, of course, that's that in of itself. I don't always get the most out of them, but I do think that I'm able to push them a little bit because they know I genuinely care.

So where do you think your leadership style evolved the most over time? Right, Because I know early on I think I erred more on the pushing too hard could maybe be an asshole. And I learned how to come from a place of care. Is that a similar growth from you or were you just naturally, perfectly, radically candid before all this?

Yes, perfectly randomly candid all the time. No, I was actually the opposite. I think I was too nice in the beginning of my career. And I remember, and I say all the time, I learned a lot of things the hard way. And, you know, especially early on in my career, I had the fortunate, like, situation of managing. I was still selling, but I worked at a recruiting firm. So I had recruiters that worked for me. So at a really young age, I was still selling, but I have recruiters that worked for me that I was managing. And I think I was sometimes too nice. And so I think a big part of it too is like, you know, we talk about this a lot about, like, hiring the right people and really having interview skills. And I will say this, like, staffing was not for me, but I did learn a lot of things that are really important, like interviewing skills and not only being an interview, but how to interview and ask hard questions and find out what you're looking for. And I think that's really important. But I remember early on, you know, I made a couple, like, bad hires because I was like, oh, I really like this person, they're nice, whatever, and they were terrible. And you realize how quickly that's such a time sink to have like a bad hire and it's your fault, like, you hired them, but they require so much of your time and attention. And you really need someone that's gonna, you know, take ownership and, you know, and learn outside of work and like, ask questions and just kind of go, especially when you're an individual contributor too, that you don't have time to like, spend to, you know, kind of manage them. So, you know, I did learn some of the hard way. And I think over time I evolved with having the importance of like finding that balance, but also, like really challenging them because I also realized that I wanted to be challenged by my superiors. So, you know, I wanted them to give me feedback and not just blow smoke up my ass and tell me I was great. Like, I don't, I don't want to hear that where am I doing bad. Because I want to make changes. Like, I want to know if I'm not performing in a certain area because I want to fix it. If you don't tell me, like, how do I know? And I say that all the time to my reps. Like, if you have a problem, I can't help you if I don't know about it. So same thing. I realized that's what I would want as an employee, so I need to give that too.

Yeah, no, I love that. Because we all are growing, right? Like, the leader I am now is very different than the leader I was even three years ago, five years ago as we grow. And it's funny, that was actually a shift I made personally as a leader was remembering that not everyone wants to be the lead the same way. I like to be led totally. And that used to be something like, oh, this is how I would want to be led. So I'm going to lead you this way and then learning how to tailor that. And so how do you tailor your leadership style per rep? Right. Because not every rep is the same. So, like, how I'm going to rephrase this question. We can keep it tactical. How do you learn how a rep likes to be led?

That's hard. But I was going to touch on that too. When you said that if you didn't go there was. It is really. It's not a one size fits all. Like, you can lead everybody the same way. It is really important to figure out, like, how needs to be managed and coached. Finding that out is harder. I don't know if I have any tricks up my sleeve, but I think just getting to know them, and I had that conversation with them early on of kind of like, what they want and need from me. And I find that sometimes reps actually think they want one thing, and you realize that they actually think they want that, but they can't handle it. So, for example, some reps will say, I want you to, like, tell me like it is and whatever, you know, and then when you do, they're like, so I think there's like, okay, but I'll start there. If you're saying, like, you want to have feedback or whatever, I will certainly start there. I have some reps work for me, and one of my managers right now when he was in SCR that reports to me, he was like, you're not hard enough on me. You know, he was like, I want you to, like, fuck me up if I'm doing bad. And he's still like that as a manager. But some people are not like that. And so I think. I think finding that balance and like you said, you know, I think you just learn over time. And I think having that conversation up front, like, how do you want to be managed? How do you like to be managed? And I think you start to realize, like, some people can't handle what they think they want or need, and then you just adapt a little bit. I'm never going to err on the side of, like, being too nice, where I don't give you direct feedback and I don't, like, tell you, but I think some people like a little bit, like, more, I guess, harder feedback than others. So I think it's just like adapting to the people.

Do you find or do you intentionally look for things in the hiring process that you think are unique to working for you? Right. So there's always, you know, there's characteristics, you know, ask in sales, like, oh, you know, they need to be ready. Oh, but to work for you, they need to be different than working for me or somewhere else. Are there things that you look for that you know are, like, unique to your culture, your leadership style?

Well, now, like, it's a little bit different because I give more autonomy to the managers that are hiring if they have a certain style that works for them. But they still. Everyone still like interviews with me. And so to me, what's most important, there are certainly things about being an sdr, for example, that you need to have, like, that grit and stuff like that. But really, I want to see, like, people that will take initiative and learn outside of what we're teaching them, I think we have a really good playbook and we teach them all the things and we adapt the messaging and this and that. But people that are like hungry on their own to learn more and to be better and then ask questions and like are really resourceful I think is really important because you know, 0fox, for example is a growing company. We're not really a startup anymore. But like you should know who to ask. Not always just rely on your manager or also, you know, don't just sit back because they're not like in your face telling you something. Like if you want to know, ask or ask the rep you support, ask the se, ask whoever because that's important. And also like the people that are, you know, that grit we talked about of like wanting to be at the top of the leaderboard and not being okay with mediocrity. Like those are all things I look for. Which it was funny. We were talking recently about like hiring athletes, which I don't think there's. I've coached plenty of people or managed plenty of people that were not athletes that make great sales reps. They're awesome. But there is something to be said for why that translates because usually athletes are used to being stack ranked. They're not, you know, they're used to being like getting tough feedback and knowing where they stand. So I think some of that stuff is, is kind of a transition. Like it's, it's a statement sale. So you're used to that. But I, you know, I don't only hire athletes, let me just say that. But I do think that they are a little bit, they can take criticism a little better. They're used, you know, like they can look at a dashboard and see it, but they're in the middle of the pack and they hate it and they want to be at the top. So I think there are certain things that working for me that I, that I look for. But a lot of it is that you know, I'm going to go out of my way to hey, I want to be a sales rep and get to know the sales managers and get to know the reps that I support. And kind of already outside of what they're already doing of being the best, like sdr, for example, they're getting ready for the next role because they want to know like when that opportunity comes up, I'm the best bet, hands down. Like I'm already doing everything in my power to be ready for that role.

And so I think that's a good segue. To. To like what culture is, right? And culture is always this buzzword and everyone, you know, culture this, culture that, this culture that. How would you describe your culture? And this also is a fun experiment, too, because I could follow up with a rep or a manager and say, like, all right, did she nail it? How would you describe the culture of an Emmy Johnson sales team?

You're right. You should ask managers and see if they say something different. I think we have a really, like, fun culture. And I've heard even from my superiors that it's like. Like a family environment. And is that a bad thing? I don't think so, because you. You care about your family. You can fight with your family, but you're. They're still your family. Like, you. You care so much. And I think that's. Like I said, they kind of look at me as, like, their mom or their big sister or whatever, but they don't want to disappoint me. They don't want to let me down. Same thing with their managers. And. And so, you know, you know, my story of, like, when I became an SDR manager and I was like, that's a thing. Like, first of all, like, where was my SCR the whole time I was someone setting me appointments, I was cold, calling my ass off. Like, in a recession, kill me. But also, like, that's all they're doing. And, you know, that job is so thankless and so important, but not fun. And so I was, like, on a mission to make it, like, fun for them or try anyway to make it fun. So I think it's obviously a lot harder now that we're working from home, so managing a remote workforce, it's much harder to do, you know, But I still like to try to, you know, play. Play games with them remotely, where if it's like Battleship or something, where it's like, hey, set a meeting and sing someone on the opposite team, and they'll. We can do that remote. You know, it's obviously more fun in the office, and you can play music and you can kind of get the energy up, but we still do those things. I also, you know, try to do skip one on ones like, once a month, if I can, where the reps are meeting with me and their manager, but I want them to feel connected to me. I don't want it to be like, you know, oh, I can't go to Emmy with things. Like, I want them to feel like they have access to me and also to know them really well. So I think we just have a Good. Like, you know, fun, but also, like, it's a work hard, play hard culture where this job, we're gonna make it fun. We're also gonna, you know, realize how important it is. Like, I try to once a year do an SDR appreciation day where everyone from the CEO, CRO reps, they send in videos and we do things throughout the day for them. We cater lunch and cater breakfast and we do games and we make a video compilation of everyone thanking them. And like, in the organization, I think that's really important they remember, you know, the organization knows how hard their job is, but how important it is.

So you just unpacked so much there. There's no way I'm going to keep this under an hour. So here we go. Because I still remember this, right? This was before I knew who Emmy was, before we met. I was at the TOPO conference. And you'll have to check me on my numbers here. But it was something along the lines where either they introduced you as or your backstory was through culture alone, you improved results. It was like 60, 70% or something. It had nothing to do with cold calling, scripting, nothing to do with emails. Just from how you treated your reps, you saw a massive increase in performance. Do you remember what those numbers were? Because I remember sitting there going like, this is so cool, right? Because also there's so many different ways to improve performance, right? And so do you remember what those numbers were? We're going back a few years now, but I just remember that jumped out in the so much that was actually.

Not at Xerofox, that was at Bocus. Because I was saying, well, the whole, like, they asked me to speak about culture. Because when I was talking about, like, you know, my biggest problem is keeping people in C, I was like. At the time, I was like, I have, you know, some SDRs that worked for me for like three, four years, and they're getting. They're kind of itching to move on, and we're not ready as an organization. We don't really have positions to put them in yet. So I'm trying to really hard to, like, keep them motivated. And they were like, oh, my God. You have strs that report to you for like three or four years. You crazy, like, talk about that. So that's where that led from. So they were talking about vocus days where I took over a really underperforming team. And that was when I was saying, you know, I didn't even know that the SDR thing was a. The job was a Thing. And it was when it was starting to get more and more popular in SaaS companies in particular. And so I was on this mission to make it fun. And I don't remember off the top of my head, but I had a highly underperforming team and by just trying to make it fun for them, playing games and doing silly like, like accolades. What do you call them? Like in high school when you do your the best?

Most like, like most likely to succeed. Yeah.

What are those called? The superlatives? Like I would do those like once a quarter or whatever with the team and they would make them funny. We would do contests and like, I would give them a little like plaques or words and stuff like that. But that, you know, that went a long way and the team went from being an underperforming team to an over performing team. And it was really just because I was making this boring, kind of awful job semi fun for them and really stressing the importance to them of what they're doing.

Culture is not fluffy, y'.

All.

When you do it the right way, it truly does drive behavior. Now this is a segue though to how do you build culture? Right? So a lot of people like, oh, I want a fun culture, or oh, I want to make people feel cared for. Then they walk off, they do an off site, they come back with like seven or eight core values and they go to the team and then it's like nothing. How did you build the culture? Because you have to do one of my new favorite quotes from Ben Horowitz, his latest book, what you do is who you are. And he says if you do not intentionally build your culture, it'll happen on accident. And I love that quote because you have a culture. No matter what, you have a culture. It's just whether or not you build. Built it. So how do you build a culture?

Well, thankfully, I think like I said before, I think part of it is just my personality. You know me, Kev, like I'm. That's kind of just who I am is, you know, I want to enjoy life. I want this to be fun, but I want you to take it seriously and know that it's important and what you're doing. And I really stress that. So I think part of it is the culture kind of came naturally, you know, with, with like who I am. But I do think in terms of like building that it's just what's important to you. But you have to find the balance too. It's not all fun and games, it's, hey, we need to look at what's important, we need to drive the right behaviors. And that could be through comp, through whatever. Like what do we as an organization need to get out of the team? And then you kind of work backwards. Like, okay, pipeline is really important or okay, this is really important, having comp plans that match that or hey, I'm going to do a spiff around this or play a game because we need more ops or we need more meetings this month or this week or we need to catch this person up. Okay, cool. So let's do some kind of incentive around that where it's not only fun, but you're driving the behaviors that you want to see.

So let's use that as an example. What are some of your favorite either like contests or motivational things you've done to drive behavior? Right. Like what's one? We're like, alright, this was going poorly. We came up with this batshit crazy idea of a game or a contest and it led to X result.

Oh God, put me on the spot. I'll probably think of a million things right afterwards. Let me think about it, I'll come back to you. There's stuff that we do like, you know, regularly, but I'm sure there's been a million times we're like, hey, we need to increase meetings or whatever. And that could be as simple as like, hey, we, we're low on meetings this month, so we're gonna play a game a week or we're gonna do something, we're gonna run a contest, you know, that drives these behaviors. Like this isn't necessarily one, but we were trying to increase phone volume for a little while. So we did Game of Phones instead of Game of Thrones, which was so fun and gave them more points for the number of calls and then meetings and connections and stuff like that. So they had teams that were like Game of Thrones themed with their team and that was really fun, but it was driving a behavior that we were trying to in Greece.

I like it. And now I want to back up because something you said I wrote down. I circled it, like wrote it because I know something that I want to do and I'm sure a lot of people when they heard it go, ooh, that's a good idea. STR appreciation day. Let's back up to this because I want to dive into what it is, who you get involved, like how to do this. Because it's something where like I'm sitting here listening. It's something I've always admired about you is every single Time we talk about. God damn it, that's shit I need to be doing. So let's talk about this SDR Appreciation Day. What goes into this? Is it the same date every year? They look forward to it like Christmas. You just drop it on them. Talk to me about it.

That would be fun, too. But it's kind of like the element of surprise is really fun. So the people that have been here know that we're gonna do it sometime, but they don't know when. But everybody gets involved, the whole company. So it's all around SDRs, but the whole company is involved. So leading up to it, like, so, for example, this past year, we set the date, and then I emailed, like, the whole company, obviously, minus SDRs, and said, hey, this is what we're doing. These events we're going to run. One of the things that we're doing is we're compile a video. So sending your video submissions by the state. So everybody from all the reps, all the managers, the CEO, the. Everybody sent videos of themselves. Some of them were really funny. Some of them were serious. And then we had our great, like, video person edit it and compile it and put it to the simply, the best music. And so that was one of the things we did, was play them this video. Happy to send it to you. It was awesome. But I. So that was one thing we did leading up to it. But then I go in and obviously it's a little hard virtual. We can still do it. But I went in and decorated the desk, and I have, like, balloons, say, SDR day balloons on their desk, and confetti and candy and whatever. So when they came in in the morning, they were like, what. What is this? We catered breakfast, we catered lunch. We did superlatives. We had the video that we showed them in our team meeting. It just depends. We've done, like, a bunch of different things. We actually played Melissa Lu from Service Titan, gave you the idea of doing Mario Kart. We put the three balloons on the desk. We did it this past SCR Appreciation Day as one of the events. So. And that was fun because not only do you, like, pop the balloons and everybody hears it, it's just fun in general. So, yeah, I mean, we've done what other events? But we have, like, an event throughout the day, and we usually end with happy hour the whole company's invited to. This year, we did it on a rooftop deck, and we had a karaoke machine and everything, and it was just fun. We got koozies and said, Ser appreciation day and stuff.

Hell, yeah. Koozies for those 40s I know you hand out on Fridays when the reps are doing well. I want to find out how that was on the wheel. I remember the wheel. The forties on the wheels.

Like, oh, we're doing the wheel virtual now. So Josh Sheinman or my managers found, like, this, like, wheel that you can spin virtually. So our team meetings, they still can earn wheel of spins, and we do the wheel virtually. They spin it.

Clicking. Go. It's funny. I brought that back to my team, hoping that they would also be down for 40s, but they picked Smirnoff instead. And I was like, what happened to my team? Like, why? Why is Emmy's team throwing back Colt 45? And my team wants a Smirnoff ice?

I try to put some, like, bad prizes on there so we have some good prices. It'll be like, $200 Southwest gift card or, like, now it's a lot of, like, Amazon gift cards and stuff. But, like, I think it's funny that one of the wedges is, like, better luck next time. They hate it because they're like, I work so hard for my wheel spin. Like, better luck next time. Are you kidding me? I think it's hilarious. Yes. But then the 40s, we were like, I think that's so funny. Get a free 40, whatever.

You know, I'm all for that. That's amazing. So now with this, you know, you said something earlier. You said, you know, like, this is just me. You know, this is me. So part of the culture comes from me. But what I want to touch on there is in sales and leadership, and especially we're going to go here, especially with a lot of women in sales being their authentic self. Right? Not trying to put on a mask, not trying to be one of the boys, not trying to do something different. It's something I've admired about you from day one is you're authentic. And you said earlier that you were a little bit too nice sometimes when you came into the game. When did you either feel or make the decision to just be you and be comfortable with that, not feel like you had to be something different for other people.

That's a great question. I think I still work on that all the time, and I appreciate you saying that. Thank you, Kevin. And it's not easy. Like, that's why, you know, shameless bug for girls club. But it's great because, as you know, like, there are so few women in sales anymore, especially in sales leadership. And I work in cybersecurity right now, there's, like, no women. So even, like, at one point, I didn't have a girl on my team for a long time because it was so hard to get not only women in sales, but women in sales and cybersecurity. Like, forget it. Like, the most unsexy thing ever. So, you know, that's what they're really promoting is like, you know, you hear that old adage of, like, sales is good old boys club. And Lauren Bailey is like, fuck that. Like, no, it's not like we need to change that attitude. But you're right, because when you sometimes, like, speak up or your yourself, you can be seen as a bitch. And that's kind of an unfortunate reality. I'm very fortunate to work in an environment with a lot of male leaders who are very supportive, especially being that I'm a single mom and that, you know, all things I, you know, I have other issues that, you know, they're very, very accommodating of. So, you know, I'm lucky. But that's. That surely still happens where, you know, it's hard. And to answer your question about, like, when did I make that switch? You know, I'm not sure if I can pinpoint an exact time. I think, you know, as I've gotten older a little bit, it's just kind of like I realized, like, this is who I am, like it or not. And so either I'm gonna work for a company that, you know, supports that and, you know, and supports me as a leader, or I'm not, you know, and. And so I'm very fortunate that Xerofox is like that. But I know that not all companies are. And I, you know, mentor a lot of women. I have a lot of women that are. That are. I'm friends with that that's not the case for them. And so, you know, it is a fine balance. And I just want to support young, younger women and. And know, like, it's okay to, like, be yourself. But I remember you gave me this advice actually is there is a fine balance of, you know, finding your voice and speaking up and kind of the way you say things. And I'm sometimes guilty of being almost too authentic. You know me, I'm like, I just pop off sometimes I wear my heart on my sleeve for better, for worse. But, you know, sometimes you have to rein it in or it's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying. And I remember you gave me the spice and I was like, oh, my God, you're right. Where sometimes I'll push back and be like, I don't think this is a good idea, and this is why. And here's the data to back it up, and then blah, blah, blah. But eventually, you know, leaders or executives, all they hear is, no, no, no. And eventually they say, well, we're gonna cut Emmy out of this conversation, because all she does is no. All she says is no. When in reality, it's, well, why are you asking that? Because what end result do you want? It doesn't matter how we get there. I think we can get there this way. Okay, you want. You want to see this increase? Okay, cool. I think we should. If we do this as and this, we'll get that same result, rather than just saying no to the way that, you know, they're looking at it. And that was such good advice, especially coming from male, because I think it's perceived sometimes wrong. The wrong way coming from a female. For better, for worse, for sure.

And so what would be, I guess, a direct piece of advice to some of the young women in the game right now who are coming up that want to be managers or want to be in leadership. What would be some of the advice that, you know, you'd almost give Emmy 10 years ago. Right. Coming up in the game. Hungry, Want to be doing this? What would some of that advice be?

Well, some of it, actually. You know, I would say I was talking to my mentor, a mentee, recently about was kind of self promotion, where I think we just assume, hey, if I do. If I do all the things right, they're going to recognize me, they're going to promote me, they're going to, like, whatever. But that doesn't always happen, and not for, you know, any bad reason. It's just like everybody's moving mile in it, doing the million things. I remember LB actually telling me one time, Lauren Bailey, who's one of my mentors, saying that one time, one of her employees, one of her best employees, who was, like, in marketing, came to her and said, I want to raise or I want to raise in a title change, and this is why I think I deserve it. And here was the data backed up, and she goes, an Emmy. I literally was like, oh, my God. I just hadn't thought of it because I'm doing my own thing. I'm going a million miles a minute. Meanwhile, one of my best employees wasn't happy. She goes, on that day, that girl got a $30,000 raise because she showed me comps and she showed me why it was whatever. And she was like, I just didn't think of it. So, you know, one of the advice is like, you really need to promote yourself more and just say, like, these are my accomplishments. This is what I'm doing, this is what's fair. You know, I think that's. And you give me that advice all the time. It's obviously easier said than done. Especially when you're, you know, kind of humble and you know, like, oh, they'll realize, you know, they'll see it. But it doesn't always happen that and just trying to, you know, especially coming up in the game, like always having that vision of like, what you want to do next and what can I do to prepare myself for that role. So if you want to be sales or you want to be a sales manager, you know, start acting like that, start dressing like that, start talking to those people, making sure they know that that's your intentions. Mainly it's just like getting a job. You know what I mean? It was like, if everybody in our network doesn't know that you're looking for a job, then you're doing yourself a disservice. Like, everybody should know. Same thing as, like promoting yourself or wanting the next step. Everybody should know that that's your intention. So you can say, what else can I do? Obviously exceeding in your current role is the most important thing. But then what can I do to prepare myself to get ready?

I love that. And it's so, so true. I have two close mentees that I work with right now, both of whom are sales leaders, women in the game, you guys would know who they were if I name drop them, but I'm not going to put them out there like that right now. But both of them, when I was telling them around like how they were talking about comp and how they were looking at their roles and even things as stupid as like LinkedIn, I was like, you need to do a little bit more out there to get it. And they both said, well, I'm just gonna let my results speak for themselves. And I had to explain to them, it's like, you know, as much as you think that's enough, it's not. Because if you never ask, if you never make it known, if you never make it obvious, and also too quick mail bashing here, how good are guys at picking up on the little things? How good are we at noticing these little subtle things? We're not always. And so if you're also working for a male boss, you got to also understand we're not good at some of that. Some are better than others.

But still looking at what data they're looking at, they might be looking at the big picture, not the individual or whatever. You know, what you're seeing where if you show them, hey, these are my accomplishments. This is what we did. Like, oh, oh, okay. Like, you know, sometimes that is eye opening.

Yes. I've been known to ask someone if they cut their hair a week after they cut their hair. Right.

So, like, that's another thing I think, and, you know, everybody should get better at this, is those little things make a big difference. So I. Someone gave me a compliment recently of, like, you always notice, like, those kind of things, like, that I got a haircut or that whatever, and that makes people feel good. And I noticed that not that long ago, there would be. I would be thinking things internally like, oh, I really like that shirt. Just say that out loud. Why don't you say it? Like, that would make that person's day, you know? So I started to do that more, and I think I was already, like, okay at it. But I've been doing it. I've been making a mental note to do it more because it really does go a long way. Stupid things like that.

Yeah. And real quick, before anyone goes like, wait, wait, wait. So you're telling me I should compliment all of my employees on how they look? That's not what we're saying. Calm down. We're saying, give genuine, real recognition. Right. And so we talked contests earlier, but I want to talk recognition. How do you like to recognize your reps for a good job? Like, what are some things that you like to do there to make sure that they do know that you care? Because that's something, too. If you ask most leaders if they care about their team members, they'll say, of course. And then if you ask most team members if their leaders care, there can be a gap there, because you have to show people you care. You can't just tell them. Right. So how do you like to show your team you care? Outside the appreciation days, what are things you like to do to recognize your reps?

You know, it's funny. And, you know, that's because we talk about this. I think some of it has to do with, like, the generation of SDRs in particular. But, like, I joke that I'm like, I could offer them $1,000, or do you want me to email the CEO? And they'd be like, email the CEO with my recognition. But because recognition is so important. And so, you know, I would say, you can't always control the comp. You're a little bit of say, but like that's going to come from finance and whatever. Like you kind of have to, you know, play that game a little bit. Same thing with the promotions. I can only promote you as quick as an organization is hiring. So like I don't have so much flexibility there. You might be ready and organization might not be ready for you. But I can control like, you know, the recognition, you know, and the fun kind of like the culture. So in terms of recognition, you know, I even, you know, think I could do more. But I try to recognize them and teaming things in front of everybody. I like to send out what I call my happy dance email. I joke around because I like to dance when things are going good. But I'll send that and copy the cmo, the CEO, the Croat, they can forward on if they want. But it's like, you know, these people set the most meetings, close the most deals, like have the most pipeline, great logos that we close or that are in pipeline and just any good stories. But that goes a long way of being of them feeling recognized. I also probably once a quarter give a department update at our all hands meeting. And so I'll try to recognize people there just like in my happy Nancy. Well, but it's like, it's a longer period and so I try to do that so that they're being publicly recognized across the company and so, and then also my managers will send those emails too where, you know, they, you know, we try hard because that's really important. It does go a long way.

Yeah. When, when I join a new company, when I sit down with the reps and with the managers, you know, I ask them a lot of questions around like work and motivation and recognition. I take them through a little recognition checklist of like, so like how do you like to be recognized? And I'll say in public or in private, do you want me standing out on the floor and saying great job or do you want just a note privately and they'll answer. And then I go, okay, peers or leadership? Do you want me to recognize you amongst your peers or do you want me to recognize you? To leadership. Hey everyone, look at what Emmy just did. Hey Luke, look at what Emmy just did. Do you like experiences or tangible things? $500 night on the town with your significant other? $500 Apple Watch. And I take them through this list of checklists because oftentimes when you ask people how they want to be recognized, they can't tell you but then you give them situations and say, okay, do you want an email sent to Luke or do you want an email sent to all your boys on the team saying, yo, look what so and so just did? So I love to ask those, those questions and it's a. Because people don't know you ask me, like, what motivates them. They won't say money. It's not true. Right. But if you give them options, like, and it's an either or, you can actually learn a lot about, okay, private or public. And there's one other one. Oh, how do I phrase this? Like, physical or spoken. Right. Some people want that fist bump.

Yeah.

I'm a fist bumper and I'm a high fiver and I'm a hugger. Like, that's who I am. People know that that's not how everyone like wants that. Right? So it's like, do you like the physical or do they just like the hey, great job, you know, and all that? So I encourage people asking those, those questions. And speaking of recognition, this isn't a question. This is just a moment for me to recognize you. One other thing that I just greatly admire about you, I'm going to make you uncomfortable here real quick because I didn't tell you I was going to do this is what you've been able to accomplish as a mother and as a single mother, as a young man who was raised by a single mom, you know the amount of respect I have for what you do and how you do it and the kids that you are raising and how they're being raised, even if they're coming out with blue hair, even if they're interrupting meetings asking what pipeline is like, I just have so much respect for you. I admire you so much for that. And I think you set such a good example not only for your kids, but also all the other moms out there. So that's just my recognition to you. That's all you can say is thank you. You're not allowed to respond. You're not allowed to do anything.

So I hope you're right about them turning out good. I'm just doing what I can. I do hope that one day they probably won't now but will look back and be like, oh my God, mom worked her ass off and was trying to provide for us. I'm hoping that they will realize that one day and that I could be any kind of example for other single moms or just moms in general. I was talking to a friend recently who is a first time mom and she Was like, oh, my God. Like, how do you do this? Like, and she works. And she's another, like, SCR leader. And she was like, this is crazy. And it is. And I think you just. You kind of. Like I always say to people, like, just figure out a way to do it. And, you know, it's like anything one kid to two kids, two. Here's to three kids. Single mom. It's all you just. You deal with it, and you just make the best of it. And every time, you know, something else piles on and just figure it out just like everybody else would. I'm like, you were a single mom. You know, if you lost your husband tomorrow, you figured out, because you have to, you know. So thank you for saying that.

Absolutely. And thank you for you being you and bringing all that to the game. So as we wrap up here, we got two final questions. So the first one, one of my personal favorites, the big three. So we've been talking for almost 45 minutes now. A lot about culture and recognition and getting the most out of your people and motivation. If they forgot everything except for three things. Three things around culture, motivation, inspiration, anything. What would those three things be that you'd want them to remember from our conversation? If they forgot everything else?

I would definitely say one. Like, in no particular order, make a point to recognize people. It really goes a long way, and I think we get caught up in doing what we're doing and we forget. I'm guilty of this too. It's just like, you know, oh, my God, like, I'm doing a million things I forgot. That's so important to me. I need to do it. I even got like. Our CEO slapped me on the wrist one time because he was like, stop apologizing for not sending it or happy dance. Email everybody. You're busy. Like, it's gonna happen. Like, just don't put a time frame on it. Don't say you have to send it out every week. Just send it out when you can. And I was like, yeah, you're right. But just making a point to do that is really, really important, you know, in terms of. And not even just for women, but, you know, men too, but women especially, coming up in the game, like, definitely don't forget, like, self promotion. And don't feel embarrassed about, you know, promoting yourself or, you know, find, you know, hype men or hype women that'll promote you, because I think that's important too. You know, just find people if you're not comfortable doing it yourself that are going to help. Like, Elevate you, because I think that's really important. And kind of in that same vein, like, I think having a network and finding mentors, we didn't even really talk about this much, but having people that you can call on, like, I call you all the time or I'll bounce ideas off at you. And I have other people that I certainly am like, hey, what do you think about this? Or we're doing this. Like, what have you seen work that's so important. So just like developing that network of people that you trust and that you know are leaders that you can bounce ideas off, because that's like, that is critical, at least for me. And partly part of my success is like having people that I can kind of rely on and try different ideas and bounce things off of is really important.

I love it. I love it. And then we're going to wrap on this here, right? So the name of this podcast is Live Better sell Better. Right? Like focusing on the person in salesperson. And we talked quite a bit about the person so far today. But what would be your parting advice to live better? What are. What's some, you know, how to get more out of life or more joy or better self care that also then. And it carries over because if we take better care of ourselves, there is no work life balance. Right. It's integrated. Like, it's really hard to have a rough home life and be great at work or vice versa. So what would be like your Live better tip for everyone?

Yeah, I mean, well, not doing that really well right now, especially with quarantine. It was funny. Our CRO and I were joking. He puts me on a dip drinking improvement plan. I'm like, I'm crushing my dip right now. Yeah, I'm not recommending that. I'm not recommending that. Actually. Our CEO had a good the other day, he does a fireside chat with like individual teams and he had actually good advice. He said, I never, if I'm having a bad day, I never, I don't drink at all. Which I think a lot of, like, culturally is like, I had a bad day, I need a glass of wine, I need to be or whatever. He's like, and it's great advice because it is like, you know, it can go really bad, like if you start drinking and then you, like, compound. So he's like, I never drink. I think that's really good advice. But in terms of just in general, like living better, I think being gracious with yourself, especially right now in this time, it's so hard like, so for me, you know, I'm an athlete and working out is really like important to me. But I, you know, it's really hard for me. I'm, I'm working from home. I'm a single mom. There's no, I don't really have a lot of time. So unless I get up extra early and work out before the kids wake up, I can't just go to the gym in the afternoon or whenever the kids are home. So, you know, when we were in the office, I would go on my lunch break when I could and I don't have that luxury now. So I have to be a little bit gracious with myself and just understand it's not going to happen the way it always was. But that's okay. It's just doing things that like for me, working out and really sleeping is so important. So for me, like, okay, maybe I didn't work out today, but I'm going to make sure I'm in eight hours of sleep. Like I have to have that or else I'm like, you know. And so, you know, that's really important. But just in general, like, you know, I think not being so hard on yourself, like, oh, I didn't work out today or whatever, like, you know, it's okay, it's gonna be okay. Do it tomorrow. And like, you know, you don't have to wait for the perfect scenario. Just do the best you can. That's kind of my, you know, motto in general is like, do the best you can and don't worry about it. Stop comparing yourself to other people. If you feel like you got a good day, you got a good day.

I love that. And especially because oftentimes that parting advice is always like this super aspirational, you know, like I'd recommend getting a morning routine that takes about an hour long with five minutes of this and that. And it's like, okay, okay, I could do that. But I love that as advice, like, yes, you take care of yourself, but part of that is not beating yourself up if you're not on track, you know, and everything there.

And I think the other thing too, when you said about like having morning routine or whatever, of course we want to, we all want to do those things, but then not beating yourself up if it doesn't happen. So I try, like I have a morning routine where I try to get up and work out. I read like one thing a day and try to actually read like my more, I'll call them business books, but like more self help, business related books in the morning I have my cup of coffee and read. If I don't do that or don't work out one day, it's okay. You know, it's not. It's not the end of the world. And I think that's the biggest thing is just, you know, not being so hard on yourself all the time if you're not, like, sticking to every little thing that you set forth, because that's how. That's when you fail. You know, when you beat yourself up because you didn't work out one day, and then you just give up.

You know, my goodness gracious. I mean, after this episode, don't be shocked if people out there doing Emmy Johnson Appreciation Day, because, holy cow, did you tell us not only how to take care of our people, but also how to take better care of ourselves. Emmy, you know I love you. You know I got nothing but love for you and what you do in this industry. Thank you so much for being on the show. And we'll have you back again.

Can't wait.

All right, later.

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