The Sales Rebellion with Dale Dupree

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What's up dude? That was probably one of the best introductions I've ever gotten in my life.

Let's go. Honestly, this was just my way of trying to become your hype man. That's all this was.

Done deal. Done deal, bro. It's on.

Well now. So Dale and I go back quite a ways now. We've had many authentic conversations around life, around sales, around family, also sorts of things. So I'm really excited for this one. But we're gonna dive right, right into it. We'll set Jared in your eyes, my man. What does it mean to be a sales rebel? What does that even mean?

Yeah, you know, a rebel is somebody that is. And just to define it, rebellion, the sales rebellion itself and the word. It's. It's built on hope inside of this movement, right? Typically, rebellion is something that's a little bit more oppressive, right? Like it's. Or it's been oppressed, and now it's angry, and so it's showing up with pitchforks, bro. But this is a rebellion built on hope. The idea and mindset behind the perspective that needs to be built into a salesperson from the moment they started. The bullpen, that. Look, your boss might not always say things that you like to hear, but you need to listen. Your. Your lifestyle might not always be the way that you want it to be, but you need to accept it and embrace it. Because those things that suck, those things you don't like or what will truly mold you. But to always in the back of your remembering that authenticity at the forefront is the most important thing, that the basics of human communication and interactions are the most important of all things. That becoming a rebel means servant leadership. It means people over products. It means community and culture over commission checks. It means giving people experiences instead of performing pitches. And that's the baseline of what we do.

Shoot, we could end the episode right there. Damn. Right. Okay, so let's get into this here, right? Because when we talk about being a rebel and having the right mindset, let's talk mindset first. What is the mindset of a sales rebel? And then the follow up to this is how does one develop it? Right? So what are some of those core mindset things people need to have? And then how do we develop it?

You know, I think when people get into sales in the beginning, they have. Everything is very bright, very shiny, Even in their first couple of weeks of being in sales in some cases as well, too, that there might be a couple things that make you think in the back of your head that was. That was kind of strange that might not Fly if it happens again. But it's this honeymoon phase, essentially. We have these honeymoon phases in a lot of things in our life, but in sales particularly, what I think that we have to remember is that being more awake when we come into our role is extremely important. Being more authentic to the truth of what we're about to go and do. The sales world is lost, broken and weary because of that. It cultures the same thing inside of us. It burns us out. It makes us chase a number for months and sometimes years. But at the end of that fiscal year, what happens, the never ending story cycle continues. We go right back into this chase burnout and really an indirect mindset towards success. That's it. We need more of a direct mindset towards success. And that's what being a rebel is all about. This concept of sitting back and saying, there's a lot of things that go to it, bro. But think about the idea behind, first and foremost, when you're in your role and you start as a salesperson, that the first question you ask is, how can I serve the people that I'll be calling on? Instead of, I need to know my product. Because if I don't, this person won't listen to me, right? That's, to me, it's a disconnect. Because if you start in that place of serving, then you will end in that place of success and results. Because that's what people want and desire from you. They don't care if you're the smartest in the room as much as they care if they connect. And sure, if you don't know your widget well enough to be able to answer basic and simple questions, they're gonna, they're gonna. Your prospect might get a mixed emotion about those things, but that's a good emotion. Good or bad, you want your prospect to feel something, not to be indifferent. The indifference is what that mindset of, I needed to get a number, I need to call these people creates.

So. Because I love it, because one of the things I preach to my team and to people everywhere is like, you know, prospect over product, right? Reps need to know their prospect way more than they need to know the product. But everyone loves to talk about the product. So how do you coach your team and also the people you coach to learn about the prospect, right? Because everyone loves to say, like, oh, get to know them as a person. Establish rapport, find commonality. Like, okay, Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. I can't just cold call someone and say, hey, before we talk about my Cold call here. How's life? I'm interested in you. So how can a new rep or a rep to a new industry. Right, because there's two different types there. Learn more about the prospect. And what should they be learning?

Yeah, it's the idea of a mirroring mindset where they create relevance and familiarity in those first dials. And impact as well, too. Because I don't believe in the value concept as much as some people preach it, and only just because the word value is so loaded. Value comes inside of the sales cycle, right? Not necessarily up front with the prospect. Just because you sent some articles to somebody that they could read doesn't mean they have the freaking time to do it in the first place. Right? So how is that really creating value? But impact is important. So relevance and familiarity, though, I think are the two things that are very clutch in that beginning cycle of cold prospecting. But I also say this. It's like you were just talking about. We have people that have even come to us and said, man, we really like your ideology and your thought process. Matter of fact, I've been trying to do it, and it just doesn't really seem to work. Maybe you can help me do it better. Well, tell me more about that. And it's like you just said, you get some. They say, I get them on the phone. I say, hey, I just want to learn. How's the pandemic treating you? How are things over on your end? And those are good questions when you know somebody, right? But when you don't know somebody, there is an awkwardness at the end of that conversation when they're on the other line waiting for you to basically say, nice to speak to you and hang up. And you're thinking, if I don't set an appointment right now, what was the purpose of these 10 minutes? Right? And that's a pressure you don't want to build for yourself in the first place. You have to get the prospects permission to sell them something. Right? And that has to be what the first call is all about. That, hey, listen, this is what I do. But the only way for us to really impact each other and for me to build that relevance and familiarity to begin with is for you to trust me. So here are some key points around things that, number one, you hate right in your office right now. We know it, you know it, and a lot of people probably try to tag you on it and make you feel pain, to make you give up and say, uncle. But I want to holistically approach these things. I'll Spend six months in this, if I need to, without saying these direct words. Mindset, right? Is what you asked. And the idea being if in your heart of hearts, you're thinking about what is really directly affecting this person in regards to how they feel about me, can they trust me? Do they hear me saying to them, relevant to their solution, to the things that I can fix, Then it changes the game entirely. And to give you an example for the listeners that are here, because I know that the big thing for all of us in the sales world is like, how can we have someone hear what I say right now and not just go, dale, that's a great idea, but make a result is that we just said it in a call block with one of my students. And what we had him doing, and we have most students do this in particular, but we let them find their own voice, is that we let them fail right around this concept. And so what we do is we tell them to be proactive in their approach. And now everybody kind of hears that differently. But let me tell you about this young man who is a stud. Kid's 19 years old, he's going places. He gets the prospect on the phone and says, and simply states, hey, listen, I know that I'm probably the hundredth cold call and that there's no prize for that. I know that people particularly call you up and they try to force a couple of these things down your throat when they first get you on the phone, ask you for 15 minutes, and you're tired of that shit. Am I right? And by being proactive in regards to what it is, the emotion is that the prospect feels and that the. That the buyer knows to be relevant and true, they suddenly approach you differently. Yeah, you're right. So what do you want? Right? So now the challenge is on, right? It's like, so what do you want?

Right?

And that's when you get to shine, right? Because the stage is yours, the mic is in your hand, the spotlight is on you. There's a thousand people in the crowd watching. What are you going to do? And because you've set it up from this perspective of emotion, right? And not intelligence. Now intelligence is where they go, but think about it like this, bro, and everybody listening. If you can get the heart of hearts to say, man, I need to translate to my brain right now and my intelligence and say, how do we make this work? Because I like this kid, right? When we can start to reverse engineer the cold call, basically it will work more effectively. And it doesn't mean it's A silver bullet, right, bro? But it helps from that perspective in.

The industry, everyone loves to talk about Personas, right? You're calling this Persona, you're calling this Persona, but one that a lot of people don't talk about is the salesperson Persona. And salespeople put on this weird Persona all of a sudden. Like they start using words that they never ever use, right? They get you on the phone, it's like, hey, Dale, appreciate you taking my call today. Now, before we jump in, I was curious, what is your current situation look like and how is it impact and we use words we never use, right? Well, Dale, the reason for my call today is this, right? Let me ask you a question. Like, we put on this weird salesperson Persona, where it is, it's gonna be people like you, people like the 19 year old. You're talking about me. Where it's like, hey, dude, let's chat.

Here real quick, okay?

Let's not pretend that this isn't a cold call. Let's not pretend, right, that you aren't ready to hang up on me. But can you give me that chance? And that authenticity, right, which you've talked about a lot, like, comes through. Why is authenticity missing so much in the sales world right now? Why are people not bringing themselves into the sale.

Bro? Isn't that the nuttiest question you could ever ask out loud? You know, like, makes you feel insane almost when you ask it. But it is such a relevant question right now. And to go back to this whole concept of the Persona of the seller, right? This is what I used to do back when I was still a VP of sales to my reps, is they would show me their emails that they sent and they would say, is this good? And what I would do is I would. I'd always screenshot the bottom. Like the rest of it was, it was all garbage, right? But I'd go right to the bottom. Especially when they were learning from me in the beginning and coming from different cultures and being forced down this tube of. This is how you do it, right? They. It's hard to break those shackles. But I go to the bottom and I would circle their. Their. The end of their email every time, which would be regards, right? Or like salutation, like, oh my God, what in God's name is that? Right? And so what you're saying is relevant because when you start, when you get somebody on the phone and you start saying things like, I want to tell you about Gartner's magic bubble, you know that we can put you in and with a hundred different blah, blah, blahs that you don't even understand. What I just said about when we start speaking this language of what our company has defined us to go out and tell people about, but the prospect sees and hears as hieroglyphics to include our actual words, we are literally dumbing down the sales process, and our authenticity is choked. This is the thought process for me, bro, and this is how I teach it. Imagine you go into a party and you walk up to the keg, and there's a guy holding red cups. And, you know, it's 10 bucks. It's always 10 bucks, always has been. It's probably been 10 bucks since the 70s, right? So. So you got your $10 bill, you walk up to this dude, and you were to say, hey, my name is Dale, and listen, I actually am selling financial freedom today, and I just need to get 15 minutes on your calendar. Would that be appropriate to do right now? Or blah, blah, bl. This idea of, wait a second, when you met somebody in the playground, when you were at a party for the first time, what did you do when you met a stranger? Why do you do that differently now when you're on the phone with somebody? Yes, there is a subject matter at hand. I would like to help you with a product or a service, but we're talking about people. And the more that you can interrupt the normal pattern of what they're typically getting from a salesperson, the better. Because they want to be brought back into a nostalgic state of a conversation instead of being talked at. Right? Instead of having their boss tell them constantly, you suck. Do your job better. Right? Stop letting salespeople through. Right? Or the person that does the decision making, you know, having internal arguments with people and having to deal with other vendors that suck themselves. And when they hear this person coming to the plate, batters up and. And they. And they hear them lay the bat down and say, just strike me out. I'm good with it. Like, I can take it because I know that I'm coming back next inning or maybe in a couple innings, but I'm coming back. And then I'm not going anywhere. And even after we lose, I'll see you in 10 games, right? And then I'll see you next season, and I'll see you again and again. It's a long game concept, and no salesperson on the planet that gets into sales at the beginning especially, is thinking this way, right? So that's what people got to start start thinking about. That's authenticity, right? There, bro, that unlocks.

And so. And what he just said there, too, that was so gold.

Right?

We talked pattern interrupts, and a lot of people talk about pattern interrupts, but they don't actually, one, know what they are, or two, why they're doing it. But it's not what he said there. He phrased it different. It's like you're trying to interrupt their pattern of their perception of a salesperson, but on the flip side, you're also trying to break the pattern of their work Persona. There is a difference between my VP Persona, right. Who I am at work and what I think about and who Kevin Dorsey is. And if you can break me out of that VP Persona for a second, that is also then allows a conversation to flow. Now you say something. You've talked about this on stage, you talked about on your website and other podcasts, right? Like interruption marketing, which I love that term because all marketing is interruption. But, like, you embrace it. You're like, dude, let's just call this what it is. Let's talk about this a little bit. What are some tactics or ways people can use like interruption marketing to break through a noisy world? Because to your earlier point, the. The kid that you had on the phone, he could do everything, right? But because he's the 100th cold call and the 99 other cold calls sucked, it doesn't even matter if he's great, Right. The person's like, sorry about it, you are one out of a hundred, and I got time for you. So we got to break through different ways. Talk to us a little bit about interruption marketing, what it means to you, how you've used it, some of the clever things that you've done there.

Yeah. So what I'll do is I'll tie this into the real concept of it. So when we say interruption marketing, we say it as a surface level statement because we want you to ask more, more than anything. And. And because a lot of people just typically, they go, oh, I've heard about that. I know what it is. And then the haters go, yeah, it is an interruption to market anything to me or to sell anything to me. Right. And I love all those outlooks, right? Because we have something so much different and more brilliant than any of those statements, which is that interrupt marketing is experience driven. Simple as that. And now when you start there, you could probably even be sitting here listening to this going, well, yeah, okay. It's kind of what I was thinking anyway. Right. Well, think about it like this. And we have multitudes of campaigns The Rebel Letter campaign, The Rebel HR resume campaign. We've got box campaigns, trophy campaigns. But this is the thing that nobody talks about is a lot of people say send a shoe and tell them you got one foot in the door, bro. They've been doing that since the 60s and the 70s, right? And these are, those are gimmicks, right? More than anything, does that speak to your buyer? Is it relevant? Is it familiar? Or is it just something zany and wacky, right? And so our campaigns that we create are relevant. So let's take the Rebel Letter campaign for example. It's a seven touch cadence and it also has a four digital versions of it as well, including one that we just added to it thanks to a young man named Dan at a company called Altec. Shout out to Dan. Anybody that's listening to this, go find all tech. Go find Dan. He's posting content. He's just a regular rep, 22, 21 or 22 years old. So fresh out the seat. And this kid's got a great perspective because he's learning this stuff, right? But, but anyway, we are coining it Trashcatball, which is actually a thing, right? I didn't realize it was until he, he first did a video where he teaches you how to play trasketball with his crappy marketing, right? That is relevant, right? Because everybody feels that way. So now tie that statement that I just made into our Rebel Letter campaign. Well, there are literally seven touches that in a different way tell you we know that 90% of the sales and marketing you get sucks, right? And so either we coffee stained it or we pre burnt it or we pre crumpled it or we. Or it's a letter with passports all over it because it's been traveling everywhere trying to find you because you're too busy, right? And so there's these concepts around a bigger picture perspective. What causes curiosity, right? That's a big ingredient inside of interrupt marketing. What causes true and pure altruistic curiosity in somebody? What is relevant to your outreach, to their situation? And it doesn't have to be again, a value concept around what do you provide to them. From a product perspective, it can be a different concept altogether, right?

So I love this so much like the creativity, right? It stands out because people remember it. So I gotta give a shout out to Andy Mackenzie as well. So when we were at Snack Nation together, he was the CMO there. We sent pre was plastic trash cans and the letter was already in the trash can, right? Like hey, we took the first step of throwing it away. For you. So if we're willing to save you time with your trash, imagine how much time we could save you with, like, we did all sorts of, like, things like that. We sent these giant while you were out posters, right? So send it in a big tube with a penny, right? So, like, you say, like, what is in this tube? You open it up, it would be this giant while you were out for. Right? Like, so while you were out, this annoying salesperson was trying to give you a call. Trying to talk about XYZ problem. We're just trying to, like, those types of things work. And what we used to joke about was bad news doesn't show up in a box, right? Except for the movie seven, that was a bad news in a box. But besides that, when you get a package and this is all by the way, this is science, how do you feel the moment you see a package? You get a little bit of dopamine drop in your head. You're like, ooh, what's this? And now you're building curiosity. And they open and they see something from you, and it's even slightly funny. Even if it's dumb funny, right? Even if it is a little bit gimmicky. They're like, okay, but don't send a shoe. Because then, like, what the hell am I supposed to do with this damn shoe? Right? But like, that interruption. So how would you encourage someone to get started with it, right? Like, how does a rep get started with that type of mindset and that type of creativity, Right?

Yeah. And by the way, if it is a shoe, it better be a Jordan. If it's not a Jordan, then, like, it's going, dude, like, I don't want anything to do with you at all whatsoever.

I don't want one Jordan either. Like, don't send me one Jordan. Like, how am I supposed to do with that?

You better be sending the second one right behind it. So I would tell people this. Like, that's why we founded the Rebellion. Because we sat back and we said to ourselves, this could actually be a lot easier than people make it out to be, right? And it can also feel personalized because even inside of the rebel letter campaign, even though there are familiar pieces. And actually. So the first time I ever heard about your trash can idea concept, it was 2004. It was a realtor, and it was 2010 when I had heard about it and created the crumpled letter to begin with and then innovated it into coffee stains and pre burns. This is what attracted me to it. It was again, this Concept of it feels like they're talking to me. Right? And so what I would tell people is sit back and realize and recognize that you actually have a gold mine of thoughts in your head right now around this idea of that statement mixed with what we're talking about here. Curiosity inside of an experience. So it feels like they're talking to me. I'm curious about what I'm looking at. And it's relevant to what it is that this interaction provides.

Right.

You know, so having holistic approach to the illness, which is instead of the rebellion, would be our invasion theory. The I stands for illness instead of pain. Because we don't. Instead of saying things like, you're having this problem, or I can fix this thing for you, we very subtly and sarcastically talk about the concepts of what they're really being bothered by. And the truth about it, not just. When I was a copier rep, it wasn't your copy machine breaks all the time. What we would say is, we would say, picture this, it's 450 and you're just about to finish this final job for a bid that's going out the next day. On Friday, we would take them through the storytelling methodology module, where it would ignite the brain and would cause curiosity and do these things of relevance, right? Where we spell out, oh, but then the copier jammed. Oh, and the company closes at five. Oh, and there's nothing you can do about it, and you're screwed, and the boss is firing you tomorrow. And it's all because of the vendor in which you chose to support you, right? So when you could take people to this place where they would go, ha, that's literally happened to me. Because you knew their industry, okay? Because that's one thing people don't think about. Think about your industry patient pop. Who do you sell to? And then specifically, like, for a copier person, if any of them are listening right now, the idea is you sell into all verticals. We'll start to say, I'm gonna sell into these five, because I know them real well and I have gained an aptitude around them. That's where you start. You start in a very basic common sense concept. And then also, any idea you come up with, just send it to me on LinkedIn and I'll give you an up or down vote on it. And I'll give you content behind it as well, too. So people do it with me all the time, and it's not something I necessarily advertise. If you read my content all the time, you know that I Do it, right? But because getting a second look is so important. So even if it's not me, if it's kd, if it's your mom, it doesn't matter. The idea is let one other person look at it and say, this is what I see. And then you have that third person look, right? You have this idea of what is the expectation of the person that I'm sending it to now, because I've heard it from the horse's mouth.

And so what I love about that, right, Is the storytelling, right? Because it is, it creates curiosity. It level sets with them, right? When you tell a story that they can put themselves in, right? That they can see it from a first person view, not a third person view, right now they're seeing it in their head, which is great because then you get the emotion which you talked about earlier, you got the curiosity because they want to see where the story's going. And then a word that you've used before that I really like is you use this word wonderful. And I love this word because it's a different type of emotion. You're kind of bringing them into that. So talk to me about wonder because that's a big part of stories, right? It's like you have them wondering what's going to happen next, wondering where the story is going, but also this idea of wonder in a positive sense of like that awe, that experience. So talk to me about wonder and how stories play into that.

Yeah. So wonder, it's very science fiction, right? Is the concept behind the. Or, you know, even having like a sense of wonder, right? It's. I'm a nerd, dude. I grew up in a sci fi world. I was extremely creative and curious growing up. My mom and dad probably thought I was going to be some kind of movie director or something crazy. Just with all the stories that I could come up with and things that I created, you know, so even creating the Copier Warrior as my personal brand inside of a dull, boring, crap industry from that perspective of like, I don't want to be generic. I want to be something that's so loud but also very legible, right? I don't want to just be noise and the loudest. I want to be ledger. I want to be authentic to that. And wonder is this concept of triggering an awakening because it's a feeling. So when you cause wonder in somebody, they should feel an awakening. It should be triggered inside of them. And it's this expansion of awareness is what it is. And because of these things, like it's vast dude, it's the deepest thought you could possibly have. And so. So when you create something like the Rebel Box campaign, and we put together a donut box that's empty with grease stains on the bottom of it where it looks like a donut has been, that you'd probably stop there and go, this is clever, and send that to them. And then call behind it and say, did you get my donuts? And they're like, they're gone. I'd be like, oh, that's because. That's because I ate them. Because you wouldn't get back to me. But instead you give them the journey right then and there. You say to yourself, how. What do they feel when they look at this? How do they react when they see this? And if I wrote it in red, like blood on the top of this thing, that, sorry, I ate these waiting for you to get back to me. And it looked like a horror movie because that's how they feel about salespeople, and that's how pissed they are about not having donuts right now. But then next to it, it had a little QR code in their head and in their mind, that sense of wonder goes to a whole new level. So it's not just this guy dropped off this box and then they open it and show it to you. And everybody goes, oh, that's kind of funny. Then they go, no, no, pull out your. And scan this QR code. And then you got. All of a sudden, you're looking at your metrics on the back and you got like 900 scans of your QR code because everybody. Their mom was checking it out, right? And so now you've got an audience, bro. And that's what a sense of wonder really creates, an audience.

And what I love about, you know, interruption marketing or wonder marketing, however we want to wonder, prospecting, whatever we want to call it, What I love about it is the confidence it gives the rep. And this is something I've talked about for a long time, is oftentimes I believe that type of prospecting works well also simply because the rep is more confident to make that call. They have a reason to call, and they know they did something a little bit clever, and they know it probably got either an lol, a haha, or at least a smirk and stop right where someone suddenly goes, but it got something right. And now I'm making that call believing that person is going to engage with me in a positive manner versus when you're cold calling. You know, you know, 90% of the people that answer that Phone are not going to have a positive frame in their head when you talk to them. But if you did something ahead of time to warm that up, it goes a long way. Now, how can we do this digitally? Can we, right? Because there might be some people listening going, well, I don't have a donut box that I ate all the donuts out of or a budget to send things in the mail, which is a whole different conversation. What are ways we can do some wondering, I guess call it digitally, whether that's email, LinkedIn, video.

Can you.

Or is it like, no, hard stop. You got to send something physical.

You can do either, bro. And we do either. You know, imagine that you were to tell the story via video and show people the tangible product. You know, like, we had a rep just about a week or two ago call up and say, hey, how should I send this quote? And here's my proposal format. And I said, throw that whole thing away and send a video of you basically showing the guy, like, a bunch of blank pages or with garbage all over them and like pretending as if you're reading something off the page and then saying to him in the same video and cutting it and editing it. Because I think a lost art as well, too is again, remember wonder, remember experience. If we just kind of shoot a selfie and we hold the phone in front of us the whole time, there's nothing there, right? There's a message, but there's nothing else. And so take a few minutes, man. It's not a big deal. It takes 30 seconds per shot. You get four of them, right? You edit them all in real nice, and it takes maybe 10 more minutes. You close the deal, you don't have to worry about your closing or. I didn't have a 95% close ratio because I was. Was worried about whether or not I was in enough deals, right? I did it because I was comfortable in my abundance and that I believed in my experiences that I was giving and that I knew that I was the best freaking copier sales rep in the world. And that's what Kobe Bryant taught me when I was a young man and read his book. And so for me, it was like taking these extra steps of saying to yourself, I want to be a legend, right? I want to be a rebel. That's who I am. That's what I do. And making that choice deliberately. And so if somebody's. I say all that to say that, if somebody's listening, that's going, I don't have the budget for that. Yes, you do. Go Drive an Uber for two weeks and then do it, right? Like, make it happen. It's as simple as that, right? That's a John Barrows quote right there. But again, the idea is this concept of, do you care enough? Right? Because nobody cares as much as you. But again, if you wanted to, like, the rep that we had, you know, send that video, you got to close, you know, and he used digital, and he got it close. He got it closed so fast it made his head spin. He's like, that never happens. I never get the paperwork back that fast, right? So it can be done, man. And everybody listening just needs to use their imagination and get creative.

And I love that because it is coming down to that, like, and people will say, like, oh, I don't like scripts because they, you know, I'm not creative, or I don't like a sales process because I can't be creative. It's like, no, you put them into the process, you put them into that script, you put them into the concepts to get better at these things. But the way you phrase it is perfect. You have to take this seriously, right? Like, I can't even. I don't even know how much I've spent in my sales career on things like this out of my own pocket, right? Of like, okay, I'm gonna do this, right? I'm gonna send these boxes out, and it's gonna come out of mine. Because I knew If I sent five out, yeah, that might have cost me $500, but I knew if I got those five out, I was gonna get two back. And those two back were going to make me $3,000. So 500 for 3,000. You know, I'm okay at math, but I think that works, right? I think that works. Now, I want to pull back to one thing here because it's been consistent throughout all this is. Almost everything you've talked about so far involves some form of a story, right? Some form of a beginning, end, and, like, what you're trying to make them feel, what's a good formula or to develop these stories, right? Because you said, like, you know, you knew the copier industry better than anybody, so you had those stories, right? How do you get those stories when you're first starting? Or how do you build a good story that then can impact your emails, your voicemails, your video, your direct mail, right? Like, having a good set of stories goes a long way. How can a rep develop that?

You know, what's crazy about this is that this question comes at me more times than I can count in more different ways than I can count to. Like, people hit me up and say, dale, you, but you got your dad and the legacy of your father. And you've got this copier company that he was running that he sold. Then you became the number one rep ad. And you've got all these things, you know, that make it so interesting. And I always, I listen first, you know, but I, when they get to the end of it, I stop that shit and it's tracks. Do not ever tell somebody else that they have a more interesting story than you. And if you feel that way, that's fine. But expressing that outwardly kills your own mindset around your unique story and how important it is to the people that you will impact. So sitting back and stopping telling yourself that somehow the things that happen to you don't work. And this is as simple as this. And Chris Watson is the best of this. Inside of my team, one of my squadron leaders of the rebellion, Chris, and his storytelling methodology. He's got a four story concept and we believe in it at the rebellion. I mean, we teach it now fully. Like, we don't just have my adaption of stories, we teach Chris's because he's the master storyteller. But we sit back and we say to ourselves, well, what is my story number one? You have to know your own story. Who am I? Know thyself. It's a principle that everybody should understand and that they should be creating into a story. And I'm not talking about telling people that I was born here and I, you know, I went to high school there. And like, there are relevant things inside of those experiences that create your store. Do you, did you, did you have a mom and dad growing up? Right? What was the struggle on a day to day basis? Was it food? Was it bills? Was it right? Like, this is the kind that you got to dig deep. You got to ask tough questions of yourself, of other people that you're talking to. But then inside of those moments, you create relevance inside of a story. If you have a perseverance story, it's a brilliant thing to be telling your prospect, right? Hey, listen, I'm on the phone with you today because I never give up. And I've called you probably a hundred times. This is the first time you've picked up. And I'm not gonna let this opportunity slip. And so instead of asking you for a minute, I'm gonna tell you that I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna talk to you for the next minute. And if you got to put the phone down and put me on speaker. I totally get that.

Right.

But I'm gonna talk to you for the next minute because I believe that this is destiny right here. And so here we go, bro. You ready for this? My name is Dale Dupree. I work for a little known company called the Sales Rebellion. Probably never heard of me. That's why they call me the best kept secret in sales training. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. You go and you believe and you create. And a story is simple, right? It truly is. At the end of the day, people that sit back and they try to complicate a story, or they try to create a middle and a beginning, and then they're screwing it up. There's four parts to a story, and that's all there is to it. And most of it is the story we tell ourselves, the story that other people tell about us, the story that we want to tell ourselves, our future story.

Right?

And then this concept of the story, that was the legacy, right? Who were we? Right. And so if we can sit and put those four things together from that perspective, then we can build something that's very translatable to another human being that we're talking to now.

Real quick, just to recap, though, what were the four parts? Were those the four parts, or can you not give us the four parts?

I mean, those are pretty much the synopsis of them.

Okay. All right.

I can't divulge the secrets of Chris Watson, but I can give you an idea around them.

Right.

Him up.

I will. I wrote his name down. Trust me when I say I'm following up, because I know, like, stories are so core to everything here. And so the last question I wanted to get tactical here before we get into our final two is the other thing. I think you even opened with this, which also just continues to show me how you think about things and how core it is to. You said serve the prospects, right? We're serving our prospects. We're serving our customers. We're serving even, like our team members. How can we as. I'm gonna split this into two. How can sales reps do a better job of serving their prospects? And then how can sales leaders do a better job of serving their people?

This is a. This is a very intimate subject for me. Imagine that as a young adult that you were around a man that you looked up to as your best friend, as the person that you. You confided everything in that would have your back in anything that you did. That the example that they set for you was one that was almost awkward to an extent where because this was your hero, because this was somebody that you, you, you believed in, that you, you wanted to see their success in constantly that it was awkward because what was happening throughout their existence and the life that they lived with you on the outside looking in, they never got the recognition that they deserved. Instead, they gave and they never asked for anything in return. They did it behind closed doors when no one was looking at you. They did it right in front of you and never asked to be named in it. They did it for people that they had no relationship with.

Right.

You know, imagine being 10 years old and driving down a kind of a desolate road, heading to an office, you know, your family business, with your 12 year old sister, 13 year old sister sitting in the front seat and your dad pulls over to the side, says, jump in the back. And she sits next to you and you're kind of like, what's going on? And a guy walks up into the window and your dad says, hey, get in. Where you going? Right in the midst of like people killing people on the side of the road, right? Like that my dad trusted in something greater than himself, right? And that, imagine having a mentor like that in your life, that all your life you wondered like, why do we do these things? And then one day he was gone. And in the process of losing him, the realization of exactly why he did what he did was, was granted to you. And not because suddenly it just made sense, but because you stood in front of a room where the max capacity was 900 and there was not a seat, not a place to stand. People lined out the back door, over a thousand people to say goodbye, right? To say, to pay respects to a man that sold them a copy machine of all things, right? Imagine in 2008 that you rolled up, you know, a day of picking copy machines up all day because everybody's closing your door. And you rolled up to an office and you're ready to roll the copy machine out and put it in and you get aggravated because you leave it and because what happened is that you watched this leader, this man that was setting this example for you or woman in your life, tell this person, how can we serve you? If we take this, will you even be able to work the way that you need to? Let's fix this. Let's work on something together. I'll take a hit, you'll take a hit, but we'll be in a place where we can still serve you throughout the process. What do you think? Imagine that 80% of the people that he did that with say yes. And you end up, instead of picking up 30, 40 machines, picking up one or two and getting back and almost feeling like you didn't do anything productive all day. But then two years later, imagine all those people calling, right, hey, man, we're good, and we're ready to keep this relationship alive. We have money again. Come in here, right? Imagine that, dude. It's one of the most powerful things that ever happened to me in my entire life. And I tell the stories and I have the sales rebellion exclusively to stand in the shadow of my father because other people deserve to understand that legacy, because some people didn't grow up with that dude. And I realized my privilege in that. I realized what I had been given and gifted and that it's not mine to. To hoard, right? But it is the world's to learn from. And so it is my honor to tell those stories. Service is more than a word, bro.

Right.

It's a lifestyle.

I hope everyone really listened to that, because that is serving. That wasn't a bland cultural value on the wall. That wasn't. We put customers first, but we'll cancel their contract if they can't pay. Like that was serving. And I think, obviously, your father was a phenomenal example for you, but for all of us, for me, your father's impacted me through you, which is something that I think we've talked about before. And so I think that's just a phenomenal example of what serving actually is like, living it, not just saying it. Not just saying, like, oh, we put customers first, but putting people first and putting their needs and wants ahead there. So thank you for sharing that story, because I remember coming into this, I was like, where is this going to come up? Because I know it's going to come up. I know it is, and I hope it does. And that was a perfect, perfect kind.

Of like, cap to this.

So as we go to the two final questions, right, the first one is, we've been riffing for about 40 minutes now on the rebellion and mindset and story and serving and wonder and interruptions and everything. If everyone forgot everything except for three things. When it comes to being a sales rebel or becoming a better salesperson from this, what are those three things you would want them to remember?

The first would be the concept of being a visionary. Whether that's in your nature or not is to advance yourself as a visionary. Like, not everybody has that characteristic trait, but everybody can gain an aptitude and understanding of what it is and adapt a mindset around being a visionary. A visionary is somebody that doesn't just sit in the now. They understand what they want. They understand what will be. And because of that, the second thing would be legacy. Do not forget that what you're doing right now is changing lives. It's making people better. You are not just a sales rep. You are somebody that has been given the opportunity to be able to go amongst the nations, the cities, the territories, as you call them, I call them communities, and change the way that people's outcomes look in regards to how they're running their business, in regards to the way that they look at their own life because of the example that you have set before them. And the third and final would be 100% would be to remember inside of this whole conversation what it's all come back to, no matter what, which is you, right? You and nobody else. These are your choices, right? It is your choice to be a rebel. It is your choice to choose legendary. It is up to you as to whether or not you want to this in the first place. And I'm gonna tell you right now that until you decide that this is that I've chosen this life, you will never be what it is that you that you feel you can be. You will always hit a roadblock. So those would be the three.

I love them. I love them because that choice, right? A lot of people ask me, like, what's the difference in the people at the top and top of the leaderboard, top of it and the bottom? Like, the ones at the top actually want to be there. They want to be there. Like, that's what they think about. They made the choice to get there. And I love that word choice. Like, I'm a big word guy. And that's why I love the way you teach things. Because, like, choice, wonder, impact, like all those types of things, which is just phenomenal. So then we'll wrap on this, right? The name of the podcast is Live better Sell better, right? Like focusing on the person in salesperson as well. So what would be your live better advice for everyone listening, right? Like how to get more out of life or how to make better decisions or like how to be more fulfilled. What would that live better advice be?

I started with this and like, I'm not preaching or getting out of soapbox here, bro, but Jesus is my number one go to man. And I have to say that out loud because it is my conviction and it is the thing that is that kept me from suicide and keeps me out of my depression. From the state of having to be on suicide watch, right? It makes me a better servant in my home, with my wife and with my son. It makes me a better leader in my community from the perspective of the people, not the product, not the building of a business. So I can tell the story of hitting millions of dollars in the bank. Nobody cares about those things, right? But the idea of the taking a mentality and a mindset toward this whole process of spirituality, I would tell people to go and connect because the more that you deny the concept around something greater than yourself, the more that you will fail because you will only be focused on you. And because of that, you will not find the things that you desire. But I would say the second thing is this, and I'm going to go to something very specific here, because you've said it even a couple times yourself here, which is this concept of words, right? You want to live a better life, be more meaningful in the things that you do. You know what I hate about the sales word, Katie? Is this concept of like, that we have to listen this amount and we have to have this much body language and this much that we say inside of a conversation to make it successful. You know what? I do agree with that to an extent. And I will admit that this whole 7% of the words you use being part of the success inside of the conversation. But you know what people really need to start sitting back and realizing is that that 7%, it doesn't mean that you have to speak less than anything else. What it means is that because you speak so little, your words matter if you're not moving mountains with the things you say. The gtfo, that's how I look at it. And so sit back and start to think more about the impact that you can create. Sit back and start to realize that this mindset around being a breath of fresh air for folks and not just a dude or a female doing their job from 8 to 5, getting by, but that you've been called for something greater. And that belief in oneself inside of that whole concept kind of ties back into it as well, too. So.

My goodness gracious, not only am I smarter now because of this conversation, I'm also inspired. I'm also just an absolute wonder of this man, this myth, this legend. Dale Dupree, my dude, how can people find you? Where can they get more of you? Like, how can they get more of you and what you're teaching and what you're inspiring with, where can they find you? Where can they get more?

Two years ago, somebody said to me, until people can google your name and find everything that they need to know, then you're, you're never going to be successful. And this was a very rich individual. And so I was like, challenge accepted. So you can literally Google deal to pre in the first like four or five pages or nothing. But me. But if you want to hit content, LinkedIn.com im backslash, copierwarrior, daily instagram, facebook, TikTok, twitter, YouTube, ales rebellion or sales rebellion depending on the platform, you can find me anywhere and everywhere, bro. Come hang on.

Hell yeah. Well, my dude, my friend, thank you so much for being on here. Thank you for all the knowledge and wisdom you just dropped on us. You know I love you like a brother, my man. I wish you nothing but the best.

Appreciate you, bro. Love you too.

Hell yeah.