Unlock the Power of Hospitality in Business: How to Craft an Amazing Customer Experience with Sam Schaut

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Thanks so much, Katie. Happy to be here.

So let's dive into this as a topic I'm trying to remember, like what triggered this conversation. I think there was, there was a post or like a YouTube video or something and then you jumped in recommending a book called Setting the Table. So like just set the scene here a little bit around like this idea of hospitality in sales and business.

Yeah, absolutely. So I've spent the better part of the last five years at the top of the funnel in B2B SaaS, whether that be as an SDR, full cycle AE, you know, managing SDRs more recently, and now starting to move into some of the AE management side. But I think, you know, I know you've been an SDR leader before, I know you've done a lot of, you know, similar work obviously at the VP level. But I think that as a sdr org, as the first touch in the sales process, you are kind of setting the table, so to speak. No matter how you're doing it, whether you're doing a good job or a bad job, you're the first touch point. You set the tone for what the relationship is going to be like from there on out. So I know, I heard you say in that intro, you know, there, there is no hospitality manager, which I of course agree with, but I would argue that the person that's leading, whoever's making initial contact with your prospective clients is the one that's responsible for setting that tone. And if they're not thinking about it in that way, I think that's a missed opportunity.

Interesting. Let's unpack that. Is it that individual's job to set the tone or is it that individual's job to execute on the experience that the company expects?

Right.

So here, like, go ahead and answer. I think we're aligned on this one.

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, ultimately that's something that should be aligned with the values and the mission of the business and it should be echoed through every client facing interaction that you have. Mm.

Yeah. Because that's a place where I do think some, not even sometimes, a lot of times we put way too much on the individual rep to think of the experience, design the experience, document the experience, craft the experience, write the experience sound. And it's like, whoa. That's something that we as leaders, I believe should be establishing for our teams and then teaching them how to do it. So it's actually start there. Right. As a sales leader how do you kind of craft or map this experience that you expect your people to deliver? Let's start with that. How do you craft it? What are the things that you think about in terms of like. Call it like hospitality, but in sales?

Yeah, I think that it starts with tone. You know, tone is something that I chat about with new SDRs all the time, whether that be via written communication, live on a call, cold calls, you know, even a little bit different in terms of the tone you want to strike. And I think it's not that every single individual on your team needs to have the same tone, but they need to come off as authentic. They need to come off as. As largely positive. It doesn't mean you can't challenge your prospects a little bit. But I still think having a, you know, airing on the positive side is much better than negative. And then I think in terms of the hospitality side, you want to feel like you're chatting with a friend. Right. It's important that people speak like they talk, but they sound like a human being. You know, you hear lots of stuff on LinkedIn about being human in sales, but it's definitely true. And I think that one thing that we work on a lot at Sharebyte when new reps come in is particularly with SDRs on like cold calls and the way that they write their emails, making sure that what they're saying feels authentic to like their own voice. That's a big part of like initial share by onboarding, if you're an sdr, is kind of finding your voice as a seller. And that's something for me that I think is important. I'm definitely a believer in scripts. I do think that scripts can work. I'm not sort of anti script, but I think that a script that is sort of tweaked from some frameworks with an individual rep that's in their voice, that their manager works on with them, is going to be a lot stronger than a new rep that comes in and is just reading down a list that was handed to them by their vp.

Yeah, no, I love that. And we are aligned there on scripts as well. Like, scripts are just best practices. It is on the rep to make it come alive. And truthfully, when we are practicing, the thing that we're practicing is the tone. Because to your point, anybody can read. So, like, I believe you can read. I'm going to teach you how to read. I need to teach you how to say it the right way. And we. It's so actually simple when you work with people on this is tell them how to read the script. Like what tone should you be delivering it with? And you can do it. Read this sad, read this mad, read this nervous. Once there's intention, the tone is there. So I love that in terms of like finding your, your voice because tone is definitely number one. And if y' all think about going to a restaurant, if you walked in and the host or hostess was like, thank you for coming, that that can set the whole mood for the rest of the the meal just because of that tone. So let's keep going down. So think about again this experience. So one, there's the tone, right? How we are conversing. Then what. When you think about crafting a good experience for the prospect or the buyer, what comes after tone?

So in terms of a like qualities that I think are important as a seller from a buyer experience standpoint, I think that you could use a. Throw a couple different words at it. Maybe consistency, maybe it's work ethic. But honestly, in sales most often it's like how diligent and organized are you with your follow up. So in terms of my reps, I would, I would call it kind of like discipline. Right. You put in all of this work, whether it's an outbound sequence, whether you got a referral to get initial contact, and if you kind of fumble the bag between initial contact and meeting, it's not always on the rep. But a lot of times there is something that could be done better there and I think like providing a super, super consistent framework and process as a manager to a rep allows them to be successful there and allows the prospective client to feel like they're in good hands and they're being taken care of. I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is any SaaS org that has SDRs and AES. I think that handoff has to be seamless if you're the buyer. If I'm a buyer and someone's pitching me and I talk to an inbound SDR and then I go to an ae, if that AE is asking me three or four of the same questions that that SDR asked me, it's not like I'm not going to buy the product, but it definitely takes me down a little bit in terms of feeling like I'm in good hands and I'm talking to kind of one unified voice.

Yeah, and you've used the word a few times here that I actually want to go into.

Right.

It's like frameworks and process. Because y' all think about this when you go to I'm trying to think like, like a nice restaurant that has low locations, right? Like let's say you go to like a Perry's or you go to what would be another one, like where you get like a good steak or something, right? You like go to a Perry's or whatever. You go to a Ruth. Chris, you know, across the country the experience is pretty similar, right? And they are doing it. There's no daily huddles with all those restaurants jumping in to talk about what the experience is going to be like. It's uniform across multiple locations. And I believe that only comes from frameworks and process. So like how do you kind of document this or how do you make this experience repeatable as opposed to like, well, each rep is delivering a slightly different experience, right? Or each handoff is different. So touch on like frameworks and process. I think that'd be important to dive into here.

So I think a good example is like cold calls, right? We have a bunch of people who make cold calls at Sharebyte. They're not all reading off the same script, but there are a lot of commonalities if you were to listen to different people. Cold call. So from a framework standpoint, right, they all use an opener, generally like a permission based opener. But there are a couple of reps who have been successful with a different version and we let them run with it. There's a specific tone that they're going for in the opener, which is unsure. They're then shifting to asking a really targeted, pointed question based on research. It's usually something very similar to what goes in their first email so they don't have to sort of duplicate the work. That's meant to unearth some more information about the food program of a prospective client. There's a couple different angles they can go with that and they have sort of a bag of tricks to work with depending on what they find in their research. And then from there on out, the call kind of transitions into a miniature discovery call. They're asking questions, they're digging, and then when they decide that they've had enough, when that they've got enough, they can go for the meeting. It pivots one more time. And that's the only time as an SDR that they're sort of instructed to kind of get in the driver's seat with a prospect and really be like, here's what's going to happen, here's the next call. Here's a preview of the sales process. And so despite the fact that we have, we've had you know, 2530 SDRs in the past 12 months that have made cold calls, plus AE's cold call as well. The sort of experience, if you're a buyer receiving a successful cold call from Sharebyte is largely the same. And I think that's the way that I think about it as a manager is like your sales process in some sense is just kind of the steps in the process. In Salesforce, I think frameworks is how I think about exactly what you're talking about, which is providing like a consistent experience for buyers, giving reps a roadmap to success, but allowing them to take part in that and kind of deviate from the mean in ways that are going to make them feel more comfortable, more authentic, and be better at their jobs.

And so then how do you roll this framework out? I'm sure there's people listening right now going like, yeah, I guess we've never really mapped out like, this process or like what we want that experience to be. How do you go about, like, rolling that out to the team? Right. Sounds like there's the frameworks, there's the structure. Right. And you're given enough space for people to, you know, navigate within it, to make it their own. But, like, what are those steps actually? Roll that out to a team?

Yeah, absolutely. So I've only been a manager for a year. I was able to do a lot of this in onboarding and training because I hired basically my whole team. But I think if I was, let's say, coming in or helping someone, sort of consulting through, trying to do something similar with their calls. I think it starts with input from your team, like doing like workshops with existing calls to get buy in. And then I think as a manager, like, you've got to master this first. So I don't think you can build credibility with SDRs unless you can either cold call live or do really effective cold call role play in front of the team. And honestly, that's a big thing, right? Like, I would have reps that would come in and they're used to kind of asking for the meeting like seven times in the first two minutes, which is not the way that I would cold call. But when we, when we role play live and they can kind of feel what that's like as the buyer and be sort of walks through a process like that very quickly. Usually they're. They're on board, they're on the same page. So I think that's a big thing, is kind of building credibility by getting in the trenches to model the behavior you're looking for your team to emulate. And then I think the other piece is just like continued role play in practice, so that it isn't like, hey, we've been cold calling one way for eight months now we're going to cold call a new way. It's like the cold calling frameworks and process are this thing that's always being refined and iterated on, and that's something that the manager ultimately owns, but that the reps also take ownership in.

Yeah, I think that's so key is that practice side.

Right?

Like, that's where I think most companies miss is they'll roll out a framework and say, okay, go do it. Like, no one's done it before. So then they're practicing on the prospects. So that doesn't go well. So they don't think it works. Whereas that practice is so key. One of the things I talk about with my managers all the time, if they can't do it with you in practice, I know they can't do it in the game. I don't even need to go listen to a call. Because if they're not able to do it with you in practice in a safe space, I know for a fact when the pressure is on and when they actually have a prospect on, they're not going to execute on it. Like, it's that practice and repetition that is so key there. And so let's keep going down this, right? Because, you know, you had mentioned the book, you know, setting the table and going through this. And so it's like, what were some of the takeaways from that book?

Right.

Like, I have it pulled up right now. Right. The 51% solution. Like, constant gentle pressure, like road to success. Like, what are some of the things that stood out to you from that book around hospitality and then into business? What were some of those other key takeaways?

Yeah. All right, so I got three points that I wrote down ahead of time, so I'll make sure I go through them. So the first is around what? Danny Meyer, who's the guy who wrote the book, founded Shake Shack Union Square hospitality group. Sort of what he looks for in anyone that he hires. So he calls this the excellence reflex. And it's sort of five, like, emotional skills, five core emotional skills. In his opinion. These are things that can't really be taught, and I would largely agree with that. So the first is optimistic warmth. The second is intelligence. But the way that he defines intelligence I would more closely relate to, like, natural curiosity.

Okay.

The third one is empathy. The Fourth one is self awareness and integrity. And then the fifth one, which is sort of the title of the book is the way that he defines work ethic, which is people who care enough to take great care and pride in setting the table beautifully each time. And I think that that's a pretty good place to start if you're going to hire some sales reps in terms of, like, the things that you're not going to be teaching them, the things that you want them to have when they. When they get in seat. I really love that definition of work ethic. In particular, I think that, like, it's less about how much do you want to sweat and, like, you know, how much do you want the dollar? And it's more just like, do you take pride in your work? Do you take great care in your work? I think the original post that I had commented on for you was about, like, a whiskey or bourbon situation where someone recommended something, right? Yeah. That's a perfect example of, like, that guy just, like, he gives a shit when he goes to work, right? He cares. He's trying. He's like, really, like, leaning in and trying to make the experience better for everybody around him.

That's what it was. I was like. I was trying to remember, like, what triggered this, because right around that same time, there was a TED talk that was going around, too that was very specific around this idea of, like, the experience of the. The buyer, the experience of the. The guest there. And so. Okay, yes. And it's funny, like, going through those terms, like, those characteristics sounds a lot like my hiring scorecard, like, almost to the letter, right? Around optimism, around curio, around self awareness. And again, like, similarly, like pride, right? Did they take pride in what they do? Because the pride is something that's internal work ethic. A lot of people only work hard if it's something that they like, right? Whereas if you take pride in it, like, as a hard worker, that's just what you do. And it doesn't matter whether you're setting a table or not. So I really, really like that because it is. It's setting the foundation of the people on your team, right? And y'. All. And y' all know this. There's restaurants out there where there's different types of people that fit within that restaurant and that experience that they're trying to create. So, okay, so I love that one. In terms of really kind of setting the stage with your people, then where does it go?

All right, so this is where it gets a little more interesting. This is what he looks for in hiring managers. And as like a frontline manager, I think it's. There are some qualities that I try to emulate in the way that I lead my team. So the first is infectious attitude. And I was chatting about this, this whole thing with one of my reps last week and his point, which I think is really well put is managers. A manager's attitude is infectious whether it's positive or not, right. Whether it's bringing the team up or whether it's that like misery loves company, everyone's kind of down, no one's hitting their number kind of thing. So I think recognizing as a leader that like no matter how I act, it's going to impact the energy of the team. So I need to be intentional about the way that I approach all the interactions that I have with the people that I work with. The second one is managers should have a charitable assumption, right? They should assume good intent when they have interactions with people. I think that goes a long way. And again, also kind of models for the team how to interact with other departments or sort of internal stakeholders and also obviously clients. The third one is the one that I would maybe expect you to disagree with me on a little bit or I think is like a little bit of a hot take. But it's the way that he defines a long term view of success. So remember again, this is in restaurant terms, but you can put it in business terms easily. A manager should have the following priorities. Employees first, guests second, community third, suppliers fourth, investors fifth. And Danny Meyer's view is that even though typically a SaaS business, you might want like, no, not say out loud that the investors are last on your list of priorities. But if you order your priorities in that way, that the investors will make money and that that's the way to sort of set your business up in terms of goodwill, in terms of network effect for long term success.

I mean I heard no hot take there. That's the only way to actually do it. Yeah, like, like and you nail it at the end. Because if you put the investors first, funny enough, they'll get what they want short term, they won't get what they want long term. Whereas you put your people and customers first. And that's where it's an interesting flop. It can go either way, right? Is like employee first or customer first. If the customer is first, that'll attract a certain type of employee. You put your employees first, well, they better serve the customer. So that's the only place I could see it. Flip flop. But no, that's that's the key to it. People seem to forget that a company is made out of people. And you take better care of your people, the company does better. Similar to the prospects, you know, no hot take for me, man. I'm 100% aligned with that.

Fair enough. And I think the example of a restaurant of employees over customers is like, drunk guy at the bar. Right. It becomes a point in time when for the other customers and for your team, you have to put their needs above this one customer who might be giving you a lot of money in one occasion.

Yes, we just did. So I was just on site at my new company. We did a whole ton of work around, like, culture and values. And one of the things that I brought up to them there is like, you know, any. Any phrase can get. Call it weaponized. So if, like, one of your values is, you know, customers first, well, that could be weaponized. Where a customer, like, wants a discount and it's like, well, no, it's like, well, that's not putting the customer first. Or a customer is. They're being degrading. They're being disrespectful. They're being whatever. They're being harassing. Customer is first. And so one of the things I walked all the execs through is like, when you're defining your values and your virtues, you also have to define what it is not. Here's what it is. We say, you know, obsess over the customer. Great. Here's what that means. But this is also what it is not right to avoid the weaponization, if that's a word of it, where it's like, yeah, we say customers first, but that does not mean someone can disrespect you. That does not mean someone can harass you. That does not mean someone can use degrading language to you. That does not mean that we sacrifice our margins that hurt the business. And so I think it's always important. There's that old cliche, the customer is always right. And it's like, no, we have to do what is best for. And this is the key. The best customers.

Right? Right.

That's the key to it. So now I really, really like that. And if people remember that, because also to remembering that the prospect is a person, this is where I always have fun with this. Try to get into it. It's like, everyone talks about Personas. Yeah, that's great. KD is a person. Sam is a person. Yes, we might be sales leaders as a Persona, but we are people, and we want to experience something So I really like that. That order there. So let's keep going. You said you had three key points from the books we have who were kind of hiring. Then we get to the managers, and I agree on that, too. That energy.

Right.

And it does not have to be the fake rah rah. I'm not the rah rah guy at all. But anyone that has worked with me would tell you I'm very positive. Even if things are bad, it's like, hey, shit sucks. We're gonna get through this. Let's talk about it. Right? It's not tiptoeing around it. So I really like that attitude point from leadership and then bring us home here. What's kind of what wraps this.

This up? Yeah, yeah. So the. The third point that I had that I think is really when you're talking about hospitality in business, the. The best lesson from the book that, like, I would repeat to a rapper that I out of it. When I have my team read this book. I think that's also what started this. As I mentioned that this is, like, required reading. An SDR Chair byte is this story that he tells in the book about the salt shaker. So basically, what's happening is Danny Meyer is a young restaurant leader. He's having a ton of success at his restaurant, Union Square Cafe in New York. But he's frustrated, and he's, like. He's. He's not really enjoying it, and he feels like he always has to kind of, like, one up his people because he's like a young leader, which is definitely a tough place to be. I can relate to that. You know, you want to get respect, but you don't want to force it because, you know, no one. It won't be genuine then. And so he was trying to find ways to kind of, like, get his people to do the right thing by the customers, to give off this vibe that he's looking to have across the entire business. And he had a buddy of his who's an older restaurateur in New York come in and sort of teach him this lesson. So he had him take one of the tables next to them, take everything off the table except for the salt shaker, take all the plates off, take the pepper mill, everything. Salt shaker generally in the middle of the table. Then he goes, all right, Danny, like, where do you want the salt shaker? And he puts it right in the middle. This other guy takes the salt shaker, moves it, like, 4 inches off, and then he goes, where do you want the salt shaker? He puts it back in the middle, but maybe it's like a centimeter different this time. Then he takes it again. He puts it, like on the chair. He asked him to put it back. So the lesson, right, is that, you know, law of entropy, every customer, like, it's their job to screw you up, to throw you off your game, right? That's what they're going to do. They're going to move the plate, they're going to spill a glass of wine, they're going to get upset about something that tastes totally okay. And it's your job as the leader and as the person providing the hospitality, to continue to move that salt shaker back to the middle of the table, to uphold your standard of excellence and to do it, you know, with persistence, but also with respect and not one upping your customer.

Mm, no. I love that. I was wondering where that was going to go because my head went a different place with it too. That I think applies to, to leaders all the time, right? Which is where the salt sugar doesn't matter if there's no plates, right? Whereas also, we will pay attention to the things that don't matter. We will fight battles over things. Like, look, is that why customers are unhappy? Because the salt shaker is not in the right place? Versus, are we doing the other things right? Which I think is really, really important. But the term that I use with my managers that falls into that is unrelentingly positive. Unrelentingly positive. When we commit to doing something, when we say we act a certain way as a company or we deliver a certain service or a certain experience, we are unrelentingly positive. They knock that salt shaker over. We are unrelenting. We're not going to say, that's okay. We're going to bring it back to where it needs to be, but in a positive manner. We're just going to keep guiding things back. So I love that because I wish I could remember what it's called. There's a TED Talk that's kind of blowing up right now where the guy talks about the New York hot dog. Have you seen this?

I honestly haven't. I got to check it out.

You will. This will fit right into your onboard. I can almost guarantee that you use it in your onboarding moving forward. Because what he talked about, this is some five star, like, Michelin restaurant, right? The story he tells is, you know, walking the floor and he hears a table, right? Talking about this was the best meal of their life. SATA da da da. It's the end of their trip. They're just loving it. But how bummed they were that they never got a New York hot dog. Right? They just never got to get a New York hot dog.

I have seen this. Okay. Right. I know. At least. Yeah, yeah. Right?

And then he goes and he's like, so the dude, like, went out to the corner, bought two New York hot dogs, brought it into him, said, hey, like, to wrap up your trip, like, here you go. And those hot dogs were the highlight of the trip for them because of that experience. So what that, to me, falls in, like, those wow moments. How do you deliver wow moments in the sales process? Like, how do you deliver wow moments in the top of the funnel? Right. Where it's not just template call, template call, template call, Right? Like, what are ways that you found it? Like, inject wow moments. Like, people remember whether they buy from you or not, whether they book the meeting or not, they remember. They go, wow, Sam, that was pretty cool. Like, what you just did there. Like, yeah, we're not interested, or, yeah, we're not in the market. But, like, wow. Have you found ways to deliver some more wow moments in the sales process?

I think that, you know, when we're talking about the top of the funnel, I think there are lots of chances to do it in an ongoing customer relationship down the funnel or post sale. But if we're going to focus on top of the funnel, I think the biggest thing is just, like, really taking care in the research that you do. So, like, yes, punchy copy is important. Sounding smooth and confident on the phone is important. But if you can call out, like, an insight about someone's business that their own team isn't even noticing or talking about very often, especially as an sdr, like, you're going to really resonate with some people, and it's going to be something that they remember through the sales process when they're making their decision about potentially buying a product. I think a good example of that for what we sell, right? We're talking about employee benefits, specifically food. So we'll have a rep go onto a glassdoor page and look at what their team is saying about their food benefit. And let's say the team loves the food benefit, but they complain about restaurant variety. That's a layup for sharebite in terms of the pitch, right? So someone's gonna. Whether it's a cold call or an email, they're gonna flatter the prospect by. By saying, it's awesome to see that your team is, like, raving about your food program.

Online.

But they're also going to highlight something that is a key area of opportunity for Sharebyte to come in, be the expert. And I think people talk a lot about a consultative sales process or being a trusted advisor. I think that gets conflated a lot for being the opposite of like an old school seller. You know, like, like it's this big departure. But in my opinion, every great seller I've ever talked to at any age, at any time with any amount of technology, they all do that, right. They're all like finding a key business insight that either the prospect didn't know about or they knew about, but no one's been talking about it at their company. I've heard Sahil From Bravado on LinkedIn Talk about this all the time when he was at Glassdoor. I think he has a story where he did something similar. But yeah, so that's a big thing for me is just like really take care and time in your research. If you've decided someone is worth spending 10 minutes writing an email for, spend the 10 minutes and like spend five or six of that on research and then, you know, get the copy good. You can spend your time on that another time or get good on that progressively over time. But if you're not identifying a reason for them to want to speak to you and a reason for you to be in the room with them, the rest doesn't really matter. Yeah.

Is that that relevancy. It's what we call it for our teams is connecting the dots.

Yep.

How can you connect the dots? Because also too people will, they'll do that research and they'll say, hey, I saw online that, you know, people would like more variety on Your. That's what ShareBike does. Could we get 10 to 15 and they don't connect the dots.

Right.

Like they don't like bring them along that, that journey. I think that's so key. It's also hilarious because like Snack Nation, this is what we did last door job postings, all of that where it is all up in it to find similar stories. Right. To go through because then you can provide true insight. And I think that's what people miss in outreach of like they're sharing information but it's not an insight until they can use it. And so connecting those dots. Right. Of like, okay, yeah, we saw this. Here's why it's important. You know, here's what other people have done to address it. Share by being one of them. But like there's ways to address this. Would you Be open to having a conversation around it and making it much simpler. So I like that. Man, this is really, really good. So as we start to wrap up here, what else. What haven't we touched on around this idea of hospitality in business?

So there were a couple other things that, that he talks about in terms of being a manager that I do think are great. One of them is just the quality that he looks for in managers, which I just think is. Is really well articulated. So he calls it approving patience and tough love. And, you know, I was an athlete growing up. That's how I think about, like, every great coach I've ever had. Right. It's, like, really hard to earn their respect, but they're not going to be rude or degrading to you until you get there. It's just hard to earn that. And then once you've earned it, usually you start to get some tough love. And not necessarily, like, again, rude or like, or putting someone down, but letting them know, like, where they can improve when they need to improve. And as long as you don't wield it too often, kind of having the ability to be like, hey, like, this disappointed me, if you need to say that. Right? I've had managers say that to me before, and those are some moments and conversations I'll never forget. So I think that tone and sort of that attitude as a leader or a coach is. Is really important. And I can. I can understand why it's so vital in a restaurant, but I think in the world of, like, remote sales, your reps are in their sweatpants in some city 3,000 miles away. I think it's really important to command respect as a leader.

No. And it's true. And I think this is a line that is getting tougher and tougher for leaders to walk and to tread is, you know, at what point is it tough love? Where is it the person's just not able to take feedback and is saying, like, hey, like, no. Like, that is so key to all of this. And like, working with my management teams, one of the things that we talk about is, like, disappointment. That word should be one of the strongest tools in your tool belt. And you hope to never have to use it, but when you do, that should bring somebody back into the fold very quickly. When I sit down with you and go, hey, Sam, I'll just say this. I'm disappointed, dude.

It hurts just hearing right, I don't work for you, and I hate it, right?

Like that. That when that happens, that's all it should take to pull Somebody in. Because if you're trying to rah rah, or even worse, you're trying to scare them, right? If you don't do this, you might lose your job. No, no, no. If there's not a connection to disappointment, you don't have your team, you don't have, you don't have that heart of the team because it goes the other way too. I don't want to disappoint my team, right? If a rep sat down with me and a manager sat down with me and said, katie, like, I'm disappointed in how that would hurt me to my core as well. And that goes both ways. And it is, it's like, it's so important that we think that way through this. So, dude, I'm, I'm loving this, man. This is phenomenal. So, like, let's as we wrap up here, dude, right, because the name of the podcast is Live Better sell Better.

Sure.

I have this weird idea, right? Like, if we lived a little bit better, if we had more joy, more energy, more fun, more wow. Moments of the sales would also improve. What would your live better advice be for people listening?

So I did something which was a little ambitious, but I got a puppy right when I became a sales manager and I had a scale team. So I have a dog that is exactly as old as my sales leadership career. But honestly, I would, I would say if you don't have a pet or you don't have, you know, sort of anything that's, that's looking to you to take care of it. Not that I would ever compare my employees to, to dogs, but I think it's a great, it's a great sort of measuring stick and like, thing to, for me to really teach me, like, patience, but also to see that, like, if you kind of give positive energy into something else, you're going to get it back. And so I'm really glad that I, even though it was a nightmare when I was training him, I'm really glad that I, that I had that at the same time to kind of keep me in check as I was trying to go scale a sales organization. No.

And this will sound weird. People might listen to like, what the hell is he talking about? If people took more of that type of mindset, though, with their team, it would be different because a pet is a commitment, so is an employee. And I think sometimes in business you're like, oh, this, it's expendable. If they don't work out, I'll just get rid of them. Whereas with a pet, if you do it the right way. Right. Like some people get a pet, they don't do it the right way, they give it away. But a pet's a commitment. You're figuring out a way to make it work. You're figuring out a way to have the balance you want. And I wish more leaders actually took that mindset with their people of like, they're mine now. Yeah, I owe it to them to commit, to find a way to make it work. To find a way versus, oh, it's not working. I'll just go get another one of you and go from there and then think it's going to be different the next time. So, no, I think that's phenomenal advice, dude. So this was great, man, because again, this is a topic that's not talked about. The idea of hospital hospitality, a buyer's experience, how to deliver those wow moments and everything else. So where can people get more of you? Where can they find you?

Where they.

Where can they connect? Where are you putting out content?

I honestly don't post a ton on LinkedIn, but that's the place to find me. Yeah. So you can look me up on LinkedIn. You know, check out Sharebite if your company's looking to feed any employees. Yeah. Aside from that, the only other plug that I had set up is my buddy who introduced me to this book. Actually used to be an SDR and then an AE and now runs a restaurant. So I'm going to plug his restaurant real quick in Hoboken and in la, Alfalfa. It's awesome. Salad and gluten free donuts. Highly recommend and super cool to see. He, you know, he kind of went backwards. He read about this stuff while working in business and then took it back to hospitality.

I love it. I love it. Well, now I gotta look it up, right? Where in LA is Alfalfa? Because that sounds like a spot that my fam would love to check out, so. Love it, dude. Well, Sam, this was phenomenal, dude. Thank you for your energy, your insights. This is really, really good stuff.

Yeah, appreciate it so much, Kitty.