Vulnerability is your secret strength with Kristen Twinning

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Oh, my gosh. Thanks so much, Katie. That was quite the intro. I bar set real high for this.

You know, most of at this point, people are like, that's honestly all I show up for is like, I'm here for the intros. That's what I'm here for. And dive into it. So. But it's also fun because everything I said was true. Nothing in there that was fake. So that's all you, girl. And it's amazing. So. All right. I'm pumped for this one because this is a topic that is, like, tiptoed around, right? Like, people, like, you know, people say, oh, be vulnerable, but then no one gets tactical. No one actually says how to do this. So I'm really, really excited to dive in here and we'll start it off right of like, when I hit you up and I said what topic? You said vulnerability. And I was like, yes. Why? Why was that the initial response when someone's asking what topic you want to talk to the masses about? Vul, why was that? What was top of mind for you and something you're passionate about?

Yeah, I think you kind of hit it, right? It's a little edgy. It's a little. It's one of those things that's kind of controversial, right. And I think for me, right, I'm a woman and candidly, a world that grew up with a lot of men, right. I sell technology and, you know, I think when you go back to that, just, gosh, how we position ourselves every day and how we have to stand proud and loud. I think when you look at vulnerability, it's such a key part to leadership that a lot of people either just pretend it doesn't exist and kind of skirt right past it or just don't really outwardly talk about the importance of it. So I'm passionate about it because it's something for me that has really been an advantage. And it's something that's just when you talk about being real, it's just who I am, right. I didn't wake up one day and say, hey, I'm going to be a vulnerable leader. I woke up and just became myself, right? And led in the way that I really saw certain people before Me, lead, me and others. And it really just boils down to being real. When I took on leadership, I always said I was never going to be that person in the ivory tower that was just going to play the chess pieces from afar. I wanted to be in it. And I think in order to be in it, you have to show what you go through and the day to day struggles. And we all make mistakes whether you're a leader or not.

And so I want to touch on something you said there. So were you always this way as a leader? Like, I know, like I had to grow into it a little bit, right? Like I, you know, when I stepped into leadership, you know, I did what I thought you were supposed to do, right? The leader has to be perfect. The leader can't have any flaws. And it took me, I would say, probably about three, four years before I realized, like my job was not to one, be perfect or two to try to create a bunch of mini me's and that being honest and real. So, like, you stepped into it this way or did you kind of learn it a little bit over time and go, oh, this is how it's actually supposed to be?

I learned it over time and I learned it by someone smacking me in the face.

Okay, all right. That's a quick way to learn. All right. Now I'm pumped to hear this.

And you know, throughout my whole career, many have considered me as someone who was a fast riser. And I didn't just learn vulnerability as a leader. I learned vulnerability as a sales rep and quite frankly, as a person and as a mother and a wife too. Right. And I think that when I talk about being slapped in the face, it was a number of people telling me to get out of my own way. And one experience comes to mind where I was very new into leadership and I had to stand up and I had to give a presentation to our senior leadership team. And I had worked so hard on that presentation. I had studied and I had written everything down and rehearsed it about 50,000 times. And I was so nervous and so scared because I just wanted to be perfect. I was not only a new leader, I was one of the youngest leaders in the room of people who had been doing it for 20 plus years. And I walked into it thinking, oh my God, I can't do this. As much as I prepared, I was still super nervous, went through the presentation, completely bombed it. And I'll never forget my leader coming to me and saying, you know, what do you think you did wrong? And I was like, well, I was really nervous. And he said, yeah, like, if you weren't so nervous, you probably would have been okay. And he just had the conversation of, you've got everything, but you've got to get out of your own way. And I learned from that experience. One, because it gave me the opportunity to reflect and say, I know my shit. Why am I doing this? Sorry if I was not.

You're good.

And the second part was, you know, I'm going to use this because I go back to this women in tech thing, right? And I think, Katie, you and I talked about this recently of how we are always looking for recruiting and top talent and it's very rare that you see women even apply for roles in tech and roles in sales. And a part of me being vulnerable is giving back to be able to explain to others why vulnerability is so important. And being able to help people feel that they can be vulnerable too, and they can make mistakes and they can still be okay and they can learn from that and succeed. And that was really a big part for me, is I needed someone to tell me to get out of the own way, my own way. But I also needed that experience so I could shape it into my story to be able to build this sort of, you know, chapter or chapters in my book around times where I just kind of had to be vulnerable to be able to move forward now.

And I like that. And so I actually, and I think it will be important for people to understand too, is like, when you say vulnerability, what do you mean? I think defining is actually very important because I think sometimes people hear vulnerability and what they conjure up in their head is not the actual meaning or definition that we're talking about. So what does that mean to you?

It's not. And it's funny you say that because. Don't Google it, guys, because if you do, you're going to be like, what? Because it actually can somewhat have a negative connotation. What vulnerability really means to me is continuing to be professional but also understanding that it's okay to be okay with uncertainty. It's OK to be okay with making a mistake. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to take responsibility for something that didn't go well. And so it's not about, you know, the negative connotation that whatever the definition on Google says that it is. It's really about that double click and just being real and being open and honest about the missteps that got you to where you are today. There's this really Great quote that I love. And, you know, I think about it often because as you grow your career, there's always going to be someone that's quote, unquote, ahead of you. Right. And has achieved maybe more because they've been in it longer or whatever the reason may be. But this quote basically says that the person that you perceive as better than something than you are is really because they failed at it more times than you. And that is so powerful because that's really what I think vulnerability is. It's just failing and failing and learning from those failures and being open about communicating those failures.

I love it. I did the quick Google for everybody, so the people listening, you can do this. So that's vulnerable, susceptible to physical or emotional attack or harm. Yeah, but I think that's what's so interesting is because I do think people have, like, this such a negative connotation to vulnerable, like being soft, weak. Right. Attackable in a way. Whereas actually it's a position of strength. Right. I'm saying, like, no, like, I'm actually strong enough to admit my flaws. Right. Like, in going through that. And so as a leader, then, like, how have you noticed the change? Right? So you kind of, you know, you went through the journey, you got smacked upside the head with it also, like, dude, like, okay, you need to lean into this, right? So then did you see results change with your team when you started opening up more about, like, mistakes or past failures?

Yeah, I did. And, you know, it was interesting at the time that I really, truly embraced this. We were going through a massive transformation at the organization that I was a part of at the time. And we were really, you know, not ridding of the past, but reflecting on the past and transitioning into the new. And with that, we sort of titled it the Way Forward. And with the Way Forward, we had to be really open about what we didn't want to come with us. I mean, we even went so far as we got suitcases and we threw this stuff in it that we just. Whether it was real stuff or intangible stuff, and just that we're not taking this with us. And I think in order to get there and in order to really transform, you have to be vulnerable, right? You have to say to yourself, if I'm really going to transform, which is really do something different and better and evolve, then you've got to reflect on the things that didn't work, because you really don't want to take those with you. You just want to take the experiences with them. So I think it's a constant evolution, and it's really something never goes away. I'm vulnerable every day, and I. You know, one of the things that I pride myself on as a leader is I get in the thick of it with my team. It's one of the things I enjoy, and especially one of the things I enjoy about my role now is I have the opportunity to not only lead, but I have the opportunity to work with my team as we sell and close and drive business together. And I think there's a big piece of vulnerability that comes with that because I'm not perfect. Right. Just because I'm a leader doesn't mean I don't make mistakes. I can prospect and get on the phone and have a really bad call. Right. And I think my team appreciates that because it's. You know, I think when you're new and you're starting your career, you often think, I have to be perfect on every single call. And the answer is, no, you don't and no, you're not going to be. And I think when they see me fall, sometimes we talk about it, right? Oh, yeah. Kristen really screwed that one up. Right. Let's talk about the why. And I think that's so important because it builds culture and it helps to provide an opportunity for people to really grow.

You just stole the segue to the next question. Right. Which I was like, how do you build it into a team? So you kind of mentioned sharing some of your failures with them or not being afraid to mess up in front of them. How do you then also then make them comfortable enough to be vulnerable? Because also sometimes, too, they'll look to us as leaders and like, well, yeah, you could fail and bounce back or, yeah, you can share your mistakes because you've already made it to this level. Like, how do you build that? Not phrasing this the right way, I guess. How do you bring that comfort to fail or that comfort to mess up or that comfortable to be real and vulnerable into your teams?

You have to be there and hold their hand and pick them up when they fall. And I think that's a really big part of it. Coaching is so important, and people talk about it, but it's really how you exercise it. And I think this plays very well into what effective coaching is. Little things. Like, my team and I do a weekly session where everybody gets on and they have to do a pitch or they have to do a mock customer call, and we all give feedback to each other. And sometimes it's great feedback and sometimes it's Hey, I think you could have done better here. Another thing that I thought was really cool, I recently had one of my team members come to me and after our QBR said, hey, I watched everybody give these great presentations, and it's something I've been talking about with the team and we really want to develop more skills with. And I said, that's great. Why don't you put a session together? And so for the past two weeks, my team has come and they've done their own presentations on just something they're passionate about because I want them to start to feel comfortable. And it's been amazing to watch them develop. And, you know, I ask, hey, is it okay to give feedback? Right? And they thrive on it, and it's good feedback, but it's, hey, these are some of the things that I think you can think of as you go forward and maybe do it again. And so the more that you coach and tell them that, hey, these things were good, but these things could be improved. I think they feel good that you're helping them show insight to the good things, but also helping them provide perspective into the things that can improve. And you watch them through that progression over the period of time. And so it's really about creating a safe place, right? A safe place for people that if you fall, you're going, as a leader to have your hand out to say, you tried. Now let me help you get back up and let me help you evolve to that next level.

I love how that was your gut immediate response is like, you pick them up when they fall. I think that's so crucial. I think us as managers and as leaders sometimes forget that, like, we have to be there to pick them up when they fall, not tell them to bounce back. Because that's how a lot of, oh, just let it, you know, let it go. Or, you know, oh, don't take it personal. Like, and that's the advice. Like, I really hope people listen there where she pick them up. Not just tell them to get up, but picking them up. I think it's such a better way to phrase that. And I really like how you put that together. Now I'm gonna go to the other side of this. Cause I'm sure there are sales leaders listening, going, well, yeah, but if I mess up in front of them, then they won't believe me. Or if I mess up in front of them, then, you know, they'll lose confidence in me. Right? So, like, how do you walk that line between vulnerability and competence where it's like, okay, I'm being real, I'm being honest. I show my failures. But you're not losing the confidence of the team where maybe they like, well, if she can't make the call, well then neither can I. Right, so how do you kind of walk that line?

Well, first of all, I think the good has to outweigh the bad, right? It's okay to have a bad call once in a while. But yeah, to your point, you can't have bad calls all the time because that's vulnerability to the extreme. Right. I think it's. Look, look, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't because I had a lot of success. Right? And so obviously with all of the missteps over the course of my career, and frankly some of the missteps on a day to day, I truly believe that the good things really do outweigh the missteps. And I think showing them that I can do it. And I think you bring up such an important point because over my career I've worked for so many different people and learned so much from so many. You learn something from everyone you work for. But I will tell you, when I look at people that I respect and that really helped to form my career is people that I knew that could do it and I watched them do it. Working for sales leaders that carry that bag, you emulate them, you want to be them. And I think that's so important. And as a leader, I always said I wanted to be a leader in something that I did successfully, that I had proven and demonstrated so that I could go up in front of my team and I could fall a couple times because they know that, well, she's already done all of this, right? She knows how to handle herself in front of the customer. And I think the other side to that too is when you think of some of you may be familiar with John Maxwell's five levels of leadership, right? You don't climb that ladder on your own, right. Your team is the one that really dictates what rung that you're on. And I think that's a big part. And when you take on a new role and you take on a new team and they're really the ones that determine whether you're credible or not. Whenever you start a new role, you're just a boss and you have to really earn that credibility. And a lot of that comes from digging in and sitting and doing with them. So the more customer calls I sit in, I think my team kind of says, oh, okay, yeah, she's Got this, right? And it's that beginning of the relationship where you're like, how is she going to be in front of customers? Is this going to work? Right? And so I think you just slowly build it over time.

And I think that's a good counterpoint a little bit too, of like. And you're just touching on a little bit. It's like how to build that trust, right? Because in order to be vulnerable with someone, you have to trust them. Right? And so what are some of the things you do to build the trust of your team where they feel comfortable being vulnerable around you and with you?

Yeah, gosh. I think like I said right back to the pick them up, the first time they fail, you gotta be right there. And you really have to reward the try versus focus on the fail, right? Hey, you tried. Hey, you stepped out of your comfort zone. I think outside of failures, right? Rewarding the success. And every time that someone does something good, you reward it. I'm a big believer in incentives, right? So we all have these big goals that we have to achieve, whether it's monthly, quarterly, and yearly, depending upon the role that you have. And that can seem like a long period of time. So I think the more that you incentivize and you reward people, even if it's just a certificate, right? Even if it's just a shout on LinkedIn, I think the more that you reward the successes and reward the attempts and help to coach the missteps, I think you start to build not only that trust, but that credibility and that type of leader where people want to follow because they want to learn from you and they feel safe to do so.

And I like that. And I think that's something where people forget that trust is built proactively. Like, it doesn't just happen. Like, you actually have to be very proactive to build that trust, right? And to build those relationships where people feel comfortable trusting you enough. Right? Because, like, it does, it takes strength to be vulnerable. It takes strength to. To share your flaws, to share where you're messing up, especially with your boss, right? Where it's like, hey, if I tell them I messed this up, they're going to judge me, they're going to be disappointed in me, they're going to think that I'm not competent at my job. And so I think establishing that from day one is really, really important. Now, I want to come back to something you said more so towards the beginning, because I think it's crucial around vulnerability that people don't talk about enough, which is Asking for help. Right. Like, both as a leader, but also as an individual contributor.

Right.

Sales is this really weird industry where it's like. It's like a little bit of the blind leading the blind, but also it's just like a lot of people, it's not even asking. Right? So it's like we're also blind and deaf, apparently, because we don't even ask for help. Right. We don't hear it or, like, seek it out. So how do you seek out help as a leader, but also how do you encourage your reps to seek out help when they need it?

Oh, I love this so much. And this is another situation where Kristen got slapped in the face. Right? So back to the candid, vulnerable conversation here. Right. You know, asking for help is so ridiculously important, and I think that really speaks to whether or not you have the strength to be vulnerable. I always say that if you don't ask for help, then it. It actually shows a weakness. Right. Because we're all in this together. It takes a village to close deals. It really does. And when I look back at the time where I got slapped in the face on this, I was actually just coming back from my first maternity leave, and I had gotten this amazing, incredible promotion. And I walked into it just thinking, oh, my God, I have to go do this, and I'm going to prove to the world that I can be a mother and I can make this all work. And I just went 1,000 miles per hour, and I never. 1,000 miles an hour, and I never asked for help. And I had my leader say, like, you know, he called me one day and he said, do you need help? And I was like, well. And I was so taken off guard by that question. And I finally was like, I think so. And he's like, well, how long was it going to take you to ask? And, you know, it was such a defining moment for me because I thought that I could do it all. And I think sometimes as females, we do really try to be everything to everyone because we don't want to be perceived as weak. And. And that moment was like, oh, my gosh, I will never again not raise my hand. And I had raised my hand in my individual contributor roles, and it was something about this experience that I felt like I had to show the world, but really, I was just, you know, harping on weakness. Right. So I tell my team all the time, we're a village. We have to do this together. As an individual contributor, you have to raise your hand for help. As a leader, you have to raise your hand for help. And you have to realize that help, help is actually taken as a good thing. People genuinely want to help. It's actually one of the fundamental, I mean, there's so much more to leadership, but it's one of the fundamental traits of people that are successful leaders is they like to help others. Right. So a lot of the times I'm sitting there waiting for my team to say, hey, Kristin, help me. Right? And once they get that trust, but also are self aware enough to realize that they need that help, is really when you can see someone truly blossom.

It's everything. It's so much like we are primed to help each other out. We really are. And when we're not asking, God, it's just you can shortcut your career so fast by asking for help from the right people. Like, so fast. Right. Like, I joke about this with my own teams. Like, why take 20 years to get good at something if you can learn from someone who did it for 20 years?

Yeah, yeah. Or why take, you know, why take six months to close a deal that you probably could have closed in three months if you just raised your hand.

Right, Asked for help? It can quite literally change your life. And I do think it's something where people just, they don't. There's that fear, there's that stigma of like, if I'm asking for help that I don't know what I'm doing. Whereas it sounds like the way you lead. Definitely what I try to lead is like, if you're asking for help, it lets me know you're actually better at your job because you know what's not going well, you know where you're stuck or you know, where you don't know. It's one of, you know, it's one of the reasons why I built the brand that I did. It wasn't to be a thought leader. Like, now that everyone's trying to be a thought leader on LinkedIn. I just wanted access to people so I could ask for help when I needed it. Where, like, I can reach out to people and go, hey, I'm struggling with this. How have you handled this and be able to get that feedback? Right? I'm constantly asking for help and so I think that's so, so important to call out now. And you also said earlier about like giving back a little bit too, right? Of like, you know, you've kind of gone through your path, you've gone through some of like the failures. Gotten slapped a couple times now, right? Like, so then how do you give back and try to ingrain this into, you know, especially if we're talking about more women getting into sales. Like, how do you kind of, like, encourage that vulnerability to people to say, okay, like, it's okay, like, and you can. And you can succeed. Like, how do you then kind of bring it full circle so you've learned, you've gone through it. How are you bringing it to. Back to everybody else so they can kind of take a similar, but hopefully less slaps in the face on their path?

Yeah, I mean, look, mentorship is something that I really think is important. Whether you have a mentor or you really focus on being a mentee, I think you reach a certain point in your career where you have the opportunity to do both. Right. And I think it's just about telling your story and just being open about the details. Right. Of how it happens, why it happened, and if you had hindsight and you could do it all over again. Now, granted, I think it. Obviously, there's no regrets, and it teaches you a lesson, but I think you just really help them understand the journey of what got you to where you are. And maybe if you had done something a little bit differently, you could have gotten there sooner. Right. And so it's just back to that, being open, being very, again, vulnerable to helping others understand the specifics of the challenges that you went through as a leader to get to where you are. And I think people really resonate with that. I mean, we all know that stories really generate interest and stories help people relate. And that's really how I go about it when I sit and I mentor others. I'm just real Kristen. Right. This isn't Kristin the vp. This isn't Kristin the boss. This is just Kristen. And this is really what I've gone through. And I want to share it with you because I know where you are. Right. And I know what's going through your head. And I just want to give you some. Some words of wisdom of whatever it is, whether it's get out of your own way, raise your hand and also find a leader that you want to work with that's going to help you through this. Right. A lot of the times you may be fearful because maybe your particular leader doesn't. Doesn't lead like that, and that's not a vibe for you, and that's okay. Right. But you have to be a little. To recognize that, to say, maybe this isn't the right spot for me, and maybe I need to go do and work for someone or something a little bit different. That that's going to be able to help me in these key development areas.

It's so funny because like one, when it comes to stories, a story has to have a negative to be memorable. And managers, leaders forget this all the time. They love to talk about what, when I was selling, when I was great, I did this. And we wonder why reps don't you need the actual, the negative, the slip up, the whoopsie daisy. That's what makes it memorable. We're actually wired to remember the bad parts actually even better than the good parts. Right. And so sharing the struggle that then led to the positive outcome, as a leader, you need to share that because that's what makes it memorable. And it will also help avoid the eye roll of, well, back when I was selling and you're just like, ah.

Yeah, because it's back to those leaders that you just watch and you're like, I mean, are you really a real person? Right. And, and that's just always something I want to be just in general to my friends, to my family, to my colleagues. I want to be real. Right. I don't want to be this stoic individual and have people not be able to relate. And I think, Katie, this isn't just for our own internal. Right. This is also to customers. And I think it's all about relationships, relationship building. And there's been times where I've been vulnerable in front of customers too. Right. And it takes that person who's strong to ask for the order. Right. And to explain, hey, I'm getting pressure over here. We've been working on this for a long time. I owe predictability back to my business. I really need, I really need you to come through for me right now. And I think in sales we have to be not only vulnerable with ourselves and our leadership, but we also have to be kind of a little bit open with our customers. Right. Because that makes us relatable and that makes us. Like you said, customers don't want to see us as perfection. That's not what they're looking for. They want to see us as someone that they can do business with. And that's going to be real.

I love that because that's the last point I wanted to get to before we start to wrap here is like we've been talking about on the leadership side, but how vulnerability can step into the sales process too and help drive results. So how do you encourage that within your team as well? Like when to be vulnerable with a prospect, how to be vulnerable, Right. Because there's also A difference between being vulnerable and be like, yeah, this is totally gonna not work for you. Like, yeah, it's just gonna break. Like, you probably shouldn't buy this. There's definitely a difference there. So how do you ingrain kind of that vulnerability and realness in the sales process for your team to have a better buying experience for the prospect?

Yeah. So the first thing I tell my team is, do not be afraid of your customer. And it sounds so silly, but I think so many people are. And we'. People, Right. And so that. That's the first word of advice I give is stop being fearful of your customer, because they can sense it. And it's just, you know, it loses your credibility. I think there's opportunities to be vulnerable, really, across the wholesale cycle, prospecting, as well as in a closing role. And I think in a prospecting way, I got to give an example to one of the BDRs on my team. He does a great job where, you know, how many times you get a prospect on the phone and they don't have time. Right. He's up front, hey, look, this is a sales call. If you want to hang up on me, I totally, totally understand. And the way that he does it is. It's professional, and it's just. It sort of like gets you, right? And you're like, okay, this guy's being real. Like, I think I might want to hear what he has to say. And then when he says it, he's spot on in what he has to say. And so I think there's opportunity to just be real and open with your prospect. And then, like I said earlier, I think it's. There's opportunity throughout the sales cycle where a lot of selling is through care. You got to be curious. And I think you have to be vulnerable in some ways to have that level of curiosity to be able to uncover what's needed to uncover to progress a deal. And so sometimes you have to ask those really tough questions or awkward questions, but if you don't ask, you don't receive. And I think you have to be confident enough to come across in a way that is genuinely curious. And then I think as you're looking to close the deal, both sides at some point have to be vulnerable in the negotiation stage, or else you're just going to be at. At a standstill. Right. So I really think vulnerability has a place across the whole sales cycle from beginning to end. Yeah.

No, I love that because it is. It's being vulnerable enough to say, you know what? I don't know Tell me a little bit more about that or, you know, I haven't heard that question before. Why is that so important? Like, help me understand that a little bit more. I haven't thought about it that way. And being able, as opposed to saying, you know, also too. The sales rep, will it do this? The sales rep always says, yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. It'll do that thing for you. And you have no idea if it actually will. Being vulnerable enough to say, hey, you know, that's actually not a strength of our product. But I also don't think it's aligned with what you were trying to achieve anyway. Is that a deal breaker? Right. And being vulnerable enough to be able to say no in certain situations as.

Well, or being vulnerable enough to say, I don't know. Right. Because the worst thing you can do is promise something and then you go back to yourself, team, and they're like, we really can't do that. And then you lost your credit card. Right. I mean, I learned that really early on in my career, where a couple of my first true sales meetings, I sat there and walked away with, like 10 pages of notes, and they were all, I don't knows. Right? And but you know what I did? I got back to that customer within 24 hours of all the things that I didn't know. And then I never, ever sat in a customer meeting again not knowing those answers. Right? So I think you also have to be open about the things that you don't know, as long as you get back to them and give them the answer they're looking for.

And leaders take note there because it's okay to say you don't know as a leader as well. Right. If someone's like, what should we do here? How should you do this? And you don't know. That's also an opportunity to be vulnerable and pass it back to your team, your rep, your managers. Like, well, I'm not sure yet. Have you thought about this at all? And being willing to pass that mic back and pass it back and say, hey, have you thought through this? And then you can work on things together. So this is everything I was hoping it would be and more. So we got two questions here to wrap up with. Right? So the first one called the big three.

Right?

So we've been riffing on vulnerability for about 30 minutes now, or actually a little bit longer. I lost track of time, right. Throughout all this. So throughout all this, if there were three main takeaways that you wanted people to have, right, to remember from this, what would those three key Takeaways be.

Ask for help, don't be afraid of your customer and open up and be honest about the challenges that got you to where you are. Because there is someone out there that's going to resonate and there is someone else there that's going to pick you back up and help you succeed.

I love it. I love it. And then the last question, right Name of the podcast is Live Better Sell Better. I have this really weird idea that like, if we lived better, if we had more joy, more energy, more happiness, more fulfillment in our lives, we took better care of ourselves, but the sales would also improve from it. What would your live better advice be to people listening?

Yeah, I mean, this is something I continue to work on myself, but it's being honest with yourself when you need some time to refresh and recharge. And I say that because I am a mother of two really small children. I'm a leader. And my day starts at 4:45 in the morning with a workout class and goes till sometimes 10 o' clock at night. And there are days where I just have to say I need some time. Whether that's I need a day from work, whether that's I need some time from my kids or whether that's, you know what, I need a break from the gym. And I think we all have to be okay with recognizing that not only do we ask for help professionally, but we also need to ask for help from ourselves and be open and forgiving when we need that time to refresh and recharge so that we can be better versions of who we are. Are.

Oh man, we can do a whole episode just on that. Like that is just everything. So that is phenomenal. Kristen, where can people find more of you? Are you hiring by chance because you're the type of leader people would like? Where can they find you? Where could they hire, work with you? Like, how can people get more Kristen in their lives?

Thank you. Well, yes, we are hiring, hiring for BDRs as well as I'm hiring for a BDR sales leader as well right now. So anyone interested, you can find me on LinkedIn. Kristen Entwining and yeah, so hope to hear from you.

Oh yes. Well, for my reps listening. This is the type of leader you want to seek out. You don't always get to know how people talk about things behind the scenes or how they think through things. Like she lives this. And if you can work with a leader like it, oh, that's a win in your career. Holy cow, is that a win. So Kristen, thank you so much for your time, your energy, your insights today. This was phenomenal. Really, really appreciate it.

Oh, thank you so much. Kd it was a blast.

Hell, yeah.