012 - Mano Watsa - Owner Point Guard College (PGC)

Sup guys, welcome back to the Next Level Athletes Podcast. I'm super excited for this one today. It is one of my favorite podcasts up to date. I sat down with Mano Watsa, owner and president of PGC, also known as Point Guard College. This is a very successful basketball camp that works with tens of thousands of athletes every single year. Over a decade ago, I was one of those athletes when I went to my first PGC. There I learned lessons and principles that still stick with me today. Mano is an incredible leader and motivator and gave priceless insights on how to create a resilient and positive mindset, the best thing a parent can do for their athlete, getting outside of their comfort zone, becoming an impactful leader and teammate, and so on. This is one you guys definitely do not want to miss, so listen up and let's get into it. Okay, so today guys, I have Mano Watsa with me. I'm very, very excited. I don't know if I've ever been as excited for a podcast up to this Point. Um, I'm a big fan of Mano. I've been following him for probably a decade now. I'm a PGC grad myself. I— my first one was 10 years ago in Seattle. I remember I flew there, uh, from Idaho. I was very excited. There wasn't as many around Utah and stuff at the time. But anyway, Mano is the president and owner of Point Guard College, a PGC basketball camp, um, and I'm really excited to have him on today. So welcome, Mano.

Appreciate it, Kelsey. I love what you do and the great content you put out for the benefit of others, and excited to be on with you today.

Appreciate that. Thank you so much. So I kind of wanted to just jump into this, Mano. Like I said, 10 years ago was my first time I went to PGC. I was an incoming freshman. Um, I, I love, I love basketball. That's my passion. So I was an incoming freshman. My parents, um, had seen a lot about PGC and they They're like, yeah, let's do this, let's put this investment in. And I went with my sister, a teammate, and I, um, and I will say like it was the most life-changing week I probably had ever had up to that point in my life. And yes, it was because like it helped me become a better basketball player, it helped me like learn how to actually train and not how to just shoot around in the gym and spend hours and hours in there thinking you're being productive. So like it really changed my game. But beyond that, I feel like it leveled up who I was as a person. And there's some certain lessons that I learned there that I hold as like some of my biggest principles that I live by today. So, um, and I heard— I've heard you talk a lot about this too. And so I wanted to just start with this topic. But the thing— my number one principle that I live by is always leave a person or a place better than you found it. I love it. And I've seen a recent post by you. You said that there's 3 different types of people in the world at the grocery store. So can you expound on that? Can you tell us like why, why that's so important and why you guys preach it so hard at Point Guard College?

Well, you know, there's a lot of different ways to think about those 3 types of people. At one of our courses, our Playmaker College course or, or camp, we talk about the, the 10-80-10. There's that 80% of any group, a team, a class, a family, a group of employees, any group, an entire school, the 80% that will just kind of be average, do their share, do enough to get by. And then there's 10% that tend to be negative influences. They're kind of pulling the 80% down, pulling them away from the good that they could do or their focus or whatever it may be. And then there's the other 10% that can influence the 80% positively, and they tend to be the difference makers. But interestingly enough, the 10% on either end of the spectrum, they're leaders. They're just leading either in ways that positively influence the negative, the 80%, or negatively influence the 80%. And so we tend Talk about the video that I talked about, 3 types of people. Those that do more than their share, those that just do their share, those that do less than their share. And at the end of the day, every good teammate, every good leader in any sport, basketball or any sport, fits into that category of the 10% of being willing to do more than your share. And to your larger question, why is this important? Well, society, our world is just better when people look out for each other. When people don't just look out for themselves and their own best interest, but they say, you know, "How can I help someone else today?" Whether it's my teammate, my classmate, my family member, how can I be a good citizen in my community? The world is a better place when people look to do more than their share.

I love that. Um, as you're talking about the 10-80-10, how they're both leaders, that is interesting because it is a ripple effect. It is contagious. And how we— like, they— we've talked about how there's cancers on a basketball team. If they— only one or two teammates are those kind of poor 10%, they pull everyone else down, and the, the team kind of sinks to the level of those players. And then in a sense— but I love the idea of that 10% of like a lot of kids, they, they might be on a team or it's pretty frustrating, there's not a whole lot of kids who are, you know, gung-ho about it all. But if they're— they may not— they may think that they can't make a difference, but they really can. Like the grocery cart analogy that you gave— of those of you who haven't seen this video, he just basically said there's 3 different types of people: people who leave their grocery carts in the parking lot, someone who puts their own grocery cart away, and then the third one is the ones who puts multiple away and who does the extra— goes the extra mile. Um, so I believe, like, if I were to see someone who— I would hope I would be in that third category of doing the extra, going the extra mile. But if I saw someone put an extra one away, that would make me want to go do it. And it does have that ripple effect. So I think that that's really awesome that you kind of spoke to that of, like, you can make a difference whether you think you can or you can't.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, Kelsey Higginson, everything we do has the potential to be contagious or infectious. You know, there's a lot of research that shows that if you walk into a restroom and there's already some paper towels on the ground, people are more likely to contribute and just drop their paper towels on the ground instead of putting in the trash. But if you go into a clean restroom, people are more likely to keep it clean. The same with putting the carts away. If there's no carts left in the parking lot, or there are none there, they've been put away, people are more likely to put theirs away. So as you said, everything we do has a ripple effect. And at the end of the day, with any team or with any class or school or family environment, because there's those at both ends of the spectrum, the 10% and the 10%, it's who are the stronger leaders? That's what influences a given school. You know, you hear people talk about bad schools and good schools. I don't think there's actually bad schools and good schools. The 80% exist in the 10 and the 10. It's just at some schools or within some teams, the 10% who are creating more toxicity, or as you said, can be cancerous, just happen to be a stronger 10% than the 10% of leaders in that school or environment.

Interesting. So if you, if you were a player or a parent of a player who wants to be in that positive 10% and you want to out or be stronger than that negative 10%, how would you go about doing that? Because sometimes teammates, like, it— you can try, you can do everything you, you can under your power, but sometimes people don't want to listen or might think that you're goody-goody, or I don't even know, like they might get annoyed by the try-hard type of personality. How would you go about coaching that for those players?

Yeah, so several things jump to mind. The first is model that which you want to see in others. You know, Mahatma Gandhi's, be the change you want to see. So the first is, in order to have credibility, walk the walk before you even talk the talk. You know, live out being the hardest worker on your team. Live out being an encourager of others. So if you want to gain credibility be your teammate's number one fan. If you're your teammate's number one fan and you're modeling what you hope others will do, those are— I can't think of two things that give you more influence than those two, more credibility, more respect than being the athlete that shows up early, stays late, doesn't just do their share, does more than their share, and then finds ways to make others better with the best way of influencing others is to make deposits. And deposits are simply encouragement, praise, celebrating others, encouraging others, picking up others, reminding others. So if you do those two things, that will give you significant influence. Now, it doesn't mean you can still sway the crowd. So sometimes you have to influence the influencer. So if you're a freshman on a team, you may not be able to influence the juniors on the team. But Can you influence one senior on the team by showing an appetite to learn from them, by encouraging them, and then reminding them of their influence and how they can sway the crowd and influence others? And so if you can't have— if you can't gain or garner enough influence yourself through modeling, walking the walk, And then through encouraging teammates and making deposits, then I would say go to the biggest influencer and try and influence them so that they can influence the rest of the team.

Oh, that's perfect advice. I, I, I agree with you. If you were to do all those things, and what I love about this is you're not being a victim. You're being someone to act, right? Like a lot of kids could be like, I'm a freshman on the team. I'm kind of bottom end of the totem pole, there's nothing I can do about this. There actually is. And I love that. I love that everything that you preach is, hey, be some— be an agent to act, be someone— I think you call it a victor, not a victim. Yeah. Um, I love that. And I, I think that that's obviously— that's what separates the good players, because if you're a freshman on a varsity team, you're probably good. But would you say that that's what separates the good players from the great or even elite players?

Certainly the great or elite or special leaders and teammates. There's probably a lot of good players out there who can just show up and perform, but there's a difference between being the best on your team and being the best for your team. And so a player that decides, do you know what, I don't just want to be the best on the team, I want to be the best for for the team. And the beautiful part about that is you don't have to be the tallest, you don't have to be the most athletic, you don't have to be the most skilled. You just make a decision that you're going to give attention and focus on being the best for the team. So my son is a, a college player here at the University of Waterloo. We live in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.

And isn't that where you played?

Yeah, that's where I played as well. Yeah, he's kind of followed in my footsteps there at my alma mater. And I don't just ask him as a parent, "Well, how did practice go? How did you shoot? How did you play?" I try and regularly ask him, "How did you contribute to others? How were you a great teammate today? How did you lead others and influence others today?" And so even as parents, we have the opportunity to help influence how our kids think about the sport experience, to help them think about how they can be the best for the team, not just the best on the team. I think of when my son was playing high school soccer and he was playing up, so playing with older players on the varsity team. And he might have been either a freshman or a sophomore at the time, and he wasn't getting in the games. And I thought, you know, the 6 magical words a parent can say to their kid, "I love to watch you play," the 6 most powerful words that any of us can say as parents to our kids. I love to watch you draw. I love to watch you paint. I love to watch you play. And so So I found a million ways to say that to my kids with anything that they do. And he wasn't getting in the game. And I thought, what am I going to say to him? And then at halftime of this soccer game, I saw him run out onto the field and he was the first to greet his teammates coming off the field with high fives. And I was able to say to him at the end of the game, I love to watch you lead. Even though you never got in the game, you were leading and influencing your teammates. And so from that early age, he was already learning how to be the best for the team and not just focused on being the best on the team. And we just need more young athletes who are willing to serve their teammates and willing to be the best for the team. And I think when somebody learns that, Kelsey Higginson, it's transferable. Then they become the best for their family and they become best for their school and they become best for their employment. And when you eventually become the best for that your employer, you end up getting promotions, you end up running the whole place. So it doesn't just serve others, it eventually serves you as well.

Well, I've seen that in my life too. As you were talking about your son, I went and played at a school, a Division II school in Colorado. And I remember my freshman year, it was really hard, obviously, like, most kids who go and play. Like, you, you're the best in your high school, and then all of a sudden you get to college and you're like, oh my goodness, like, I'm not anymore, right? It's really hard. You're, you're the bottom of the totem pole in a way. And no matter how hard you work, no matter how much you do, there's going to be players who just outplay you because they've had more experience and more time. And kind of similar things to what was happening to your son there. And that was happening to me, and I was really frustrated about it because I was always a believer in, okay, like I plant this seed and then I want to see the fruits of my harvest, right? I want to see these things happen. And typically in the past, it's like the harder I work, the more reps I put in, the, like, the more playing time or the more points or like, you know, the, the more kind of physical results I would get. Um, but, and I'm kind of bringing in a couple different things that you've said, but you've talked about being not being married to your goals in a sense as well, and like just kind of being more flexible about that and being more kind of task-oriented instead of result-focused. And as, as you're saying, don't be the best— like you're saying, be the best for your team, not just the best one on your team. I believe that I learned in that freshman year, for me, like, I might have gotten total 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes of playing time that entire season, which had never happened for me. Like, it was so foreign to me. But I remember at the— I learned a couple different lessons there. And the first one is, I had never— I had to figure out a way to give value to my team that wasn't on the court. And that was a very big lesson that I learned of like, wow, like I can influence the energy I bring on the bench. I can influence like if one of my teammates is down at practice of how I can show up or I can influence how hard I play at practice to make these 5, these starting 5 better or stuff like that. And it was interesting 'cause I had never had to do that before. It was a different side of the game and a different side of kind of who I was as a person. But I believe like, and I talked to my parents about this after the season ended, I was like, I think I learned more this year sitting on the sidelines than I would have ever learned being the star on the court. And so I think having learned those lessons was very valuable to me. And as I pass those along to my kids and stuff as well, like, there's a lot more to the game and to learning things than just playing the game, if that makes sense. Um, yeah, I love that you spoke to that.

And, and those are the things that ultimately become transferable to every aspect of life. Unfortunately, in this win-at-all-costs sports culture that we live in presently, coaches and even parents fall victim to just focusing on the wins and the losses. We miss the opportunity. They say that sports builds character, and I think sports can build character, but it doesn't necessarily build character. Often it reveals character. But it requires intentionality to actually build character. And sometimes when you can't, as you said, in, in with your career, when you, when you can't get the playing time or reach the outcomes that you're hoping for, it actually creates an opportunity to shift your focus. My son spent most of the last 2 years injured and missed his most of his last 2 college seasons. And it enabled him to focus on, as you did, how else can I contribute? And for some athletes, they just choose to give up on their sport altogether, or they just painfully wait it out until they can perform again. But it's a missed opportunity because there's so many other ways you can contribute to a team rather than just points on the scoreboard. And I think an injury or, you know, being on the bench and not getting playing time really gives an opportunity for those things to develop. And I think that's where strong character traits can be developed.

And I love that you mentioned that it was transferable, 'cause it really is. Like, I'm done playing now and things like that, but as I grow my business, as I help athletes kind of help me be the person that I wish I would have had back then. Like, being able to teach those things and apply what I had learned and what I have developed through my sport, maybe, and kind of speak the same language as those athletes, it's been really cool to see. And I believe it even— I'm a new mom of an 11-month-old, um, and I believe it has even transferred into being a mom and being like just into life in general. And so I love that fact of like athletes, if if it's not rolling your way, like, that's okay. Like, figure out how you can grow from it instead of just, just kind of roll over and give up, right?

Yeah. And, and, you know, as parents, none of us want our kids to experience adversity, uh, setbacks. No parent wants their kid to sit on the bench in any sport. And so it could be, it could be especially hard on, on parents watching their kids go through difficult times. It certainly was for us watching our son not play due due to his injury the past 2 years with a chronic stress fracture that wouldn't go away. But at the end of the day, I routinely remind parents that adversity is what builds grit, and grit is what builds successful young people. And so we actually need setbacks. We actually need adversity. We actually need things that are hard that we have to go through, as you said, that, that can ultimately be utilized in who we become beyond the field or the court.

I would love to actually kind of dive into that more with the parent side of things. 'Cause like I mentioned to you, there are a lot of parents who listen to this kind of wanting to understand how they can better help their kids and not just try to live their glory days over again through their kids. Yeah. You talked about the 6 most important words, that you can say to your kid, I love to watch you play. Can you expound more on that and why that's so important instead of like, oh, you need to do this after your game, you need to do this, or are you working hard enough, or you didn't get enough playing time, or wow. Like, I feel like a lot of parents are very results-focused as well. And so can you expound on that a little bit more and why that's so important?

Yeah, well, first there's been research done on what is the least favorable part of many kids' sport experience, and it's the drive home, the car ride home with their parents in which they're either being grilled for things that they didn't do or reprimanded for their lack of effort or lack of performance or whatever it may be. And all of those things are judgments. Even if we commend our child and tell them how great they played, that's actually a judgment. We're assessing and evaluating performance. And the beauty of the words, "I love to watch you play," is there's absolutely no judgment related to performance. It's not speaking to whether you scored or didn't score or whether you played well or didn't play well. There's no judgment associated with "I love to watch you play." And what that conveys to a child is they're accepted. They're accepted. And I think ultimately, if we really pulled back and thought about what we want as, as parents for our kids, is we don't want to create kids who have to seek approval through their performance. And so I think one of the best things we can do to nurture our kids as parents is to accept them for who they are. And not link their identity to their performance. And that's the risk for every athlete. It certainly was for me as a basketball player. The better I became at basketball, the more attached my identity became to basketball. And the risks associated with that are huge, especially as we all know, the ball will eventually stop bouncing. And so when— but when your identity is attached to your performance, when you play badly, you're going to feel badly about yourself. And what you're going to when you play well and you're getting the adulation of the fans, you're going to feel great about yourself. And you— I spent a good part of my career in this yo-yo of up and down based on how I played. That determined how I felt, not just how I felt about how I played, but inevitably how I felt as a person. And, uh, and you can see it in, in young athletes, not just young athletes, you can see it in college and professional athletes. And our identity can get so tied to our sport that we're actually dependent on the sport, which is why so many professional athletes when they retire feel a sense of both hopelessness and feeling lost because their whole identity was wrapped up in the sport. So I think we have the opportunity as parents to help our kids feel accepted for who they are, not based on what they do or what they achieve. And those 6 magical words, "I love to watch you play," has no judgment, and it's communicating acceptance and love free from how they perform or don't perform.

I love that. I'm definitely going to use that throughout the years. If you had a kid, say that your son was starting to tie his identity to the sport and you were being very conscious about saying those 6 important words in different ways and not judging or anything like that, but he still was going down the path of he's linking everything he is to this sport. How would you go about that? Because it's a fine line. Like, you don't want to lecture as a parent. You don't want to like be the coach, but how would you go about doing that personally?

Yep. Steve Nash, multi-time NBA MVP, had this recommendation, which was the opposite of what we're going to speak to, your question. But he said, you know, the best thing a young person can do is is get obsessed about something. And because if you develop an obsession with something, it'll become a passion. You'll develop skill sets. All of those things are good in terms of work ethic and discipline and initiative and responsibility and all those things that can help a young person. But that can come with a trap. And that trap we know is related to identity. And so how do you combat that as a parent? How do you combat that as a coach? Two ways. One is help remind that young person of other things that you see in their life that are important and that they enjoy, and so that they still continue to pursue other interests. And so how do you get really obsessed with something and still stay diverse enough that you still have other interests? I think as parents, It's our responsibility to foster that which they love and to look for opportunities to foster other things that they may one day love as well. And the second is I think we're far more grounded when we're tied to our values. And so if we can help our kids or as coaches help our players get tied to the things that are important to them in terms of their values, who they want to be as a person, even as a player, even as a teammate. Those things then become transferable. So if, if somebody decides, okay, I value being a great teammate, I value discipline, I value hard work, that's then attaching their self-esteem, their sense of importance and worth, not just to the sport but to the actual traits that they're developing within the sport that can then be transferable to other aspects of life. So I think those two things, helping to encourage and support other interests and helping to affirm the values that they may be developing.

That's perfect. I love that. I'm going to just be going back and listening to this and making notes for myself with my little— he's 11 months old now, but I'm just—

You got lots of time.

You've got lots of time. I've got lots of time to learn. And there's certain things that I want to do as a parent like that of just helping them realize who they are, but also providing ways for them to be as good as they want to be in whatever it is, whether it's music or sports or anything. And so I love how you talked about that, of tying it to the trait, not just to the thing that they're doing. And that's where it becomes transferable, just like you mentioned earlier. So that's fantastic. Um, okay, so the second quote that I have loved from PGC that I will always remember is get comfortable being uncomfortable. Growth happens there, right? Like it happens outside the comfort zone. And that might be a little cliché, but I believe it's truth. So what experience have you personally had that has led you to be comfortable through the discomfort?

Hmm. Well, I had a lot of discomfort in my high school and college career because I was striving after these lofty goals that were far from where I was at, at that time. And so, you know, I had to continue to stretch myself. I had to push myself in terms of my training. I was the smallest player on every team I played on. So I had to get comfortable being the smallest player on every team. And so those things were uncomfortable. Learning to lead, you know, and just trying to lead a team, trying to influence a team was at times uncomfortable. Having difficult conversations with teammates to hold them accountable or to remind them of the things that we're trying to work towards, uncomfortable. You know, in recent years in leading PGC, you know, just continuing to find ways to stretch myself to grow. To say, what are the things that I'm not doing well? Even just speaking on camera. For me, 10 years ago, it's embarrassing to look back at film of me on camera and how robotic I sounded and how unnatural I sounded. And people used to say to me at the time, just kind of use your regular talking voice. And I said, I am, aren't I? But I wasn't. I mean, it just sounded so— so put on and that took years to get comfortable on a microphone in front of a camera. And now, you know, I'm shooting videos nearly every week. But it's one of those things that things are typically hard before they become easy. And almost anything worth learning is hard before it becomes easy. And so when you take on something new, it's going to be hard. And therefore, it'll be uncomfortable because we all gravitate towards things that are easy. That's why scrolling through social media is so appealing. It's easy. It's effortless. And so I attempt to fight against things that are easy or that are comfortable. It's one of the reasons I do cold plunges and cold showers daily, because I just try and find ways to challenge myself to do things that are hard and uncomfortable. And the more we do hard things, the more comfortable we get with doing hard things and the stronger we become as a result.

Yeah. I love that. I graduated in exercise physiology. So I'm a, I'm a pretty big, um, muscle fiber, like everything nerd. I'm a very big science nerd when it comes to those things. And it's very interesting. And I, and I'm sure most people have heard or know this analogy, but it's the only way to grow muscle is by tearing it and, um, then refueling it and it then grows back stronger, right? So like, you have to put the weight on, you have to put extra weight. And I've seen you— I, again, I've followed you for a while, so I've seen some videos about how you continually add weight to the, to the bar and continually add extra reps because that's the only way we get stronger. And that's scientifically proven true. Like, that's the only way muscle can grow is through putting it under stress and through doing some uncomfortable things, because lifting is not comfortable, especially if you're doing so deliberately and trying to get stronger, right? And so I think that that principle is really where truth is found, is like the only way to grow is through adding more weight or through, um, adding another rep. But one thing that I wanted to ask you about, because you're kind of the king of mindset when it comes to these things, is how do you do that? It's easy to do that or see like, okay, I'm going to put in 20 extra makes in the gym or this many extra reps or this much extra weight on my squat. But how do you do that in terms of mindset? Like how do you raise the bar every day or increase the weight in terms of mindset? 'Cause that's something that's, I feel like a little bit more abstract and hard to quantify.

Yeah, let me give you one piece that came to mind and then I'll dive into that one. Our environment is one of the easiest ways to, to grow in this area, to stretch yourself. And, and it starts with the friends that we surround ourselves with. So to all of our listeners, do you surround yourselves with, with others who challenge you? And so some of my friends challenge me in different ways that, that helped me to grow, or help me to get uncomfortable. I just took a couple buddies rock climbing for their birthdays, and I challenged them and made them better and got them really uncomfortable. In fact, when we were 150 feet up, we had never climbed before, and we were with this guide, and we're 150 feet up, and one of my buddies turned and said to me, "Remind me to never go away with you again." I had challenged him, we had a good laugh, and we both looked down, and you know, it was petrifying. But, you know, we can sharpen each other and we can make each other better. So, but we can also choose to hang out with those who do the opposite. So one of the most important things, and it's the rule of 5, a lot of research coming out of Harvard University on this front, we become like the 5 people we spend the most time with in any realm. And so choosing your friends carefully is is of utmost importance. And if you choose friends who can challenge you, that can help you to make you better because they invite you to work out with them or, you know, they're eating healthier, you start to eat healthier. So getting out of your comfort zone, one of the best ways is to find people who will challenge you. Coming on back to the mental side, one of the ways I've attempted to level up and get uncomfortable is to put myself in environments that stretch my thinking. So how do I grow my mindset? I try to attend a conference every year that just levels me up in my leadership or in an area that I want to grow in knowledge in. And so, so that's one of the ways that I've kind of attempted to grow from the mental side. In terms of mindset itself, I really do think the cold plunge or the turning the water cold in the shower is one of the easiest— maybe not easy to do, but in terms of accessibility, everybody's showering regularly, if not daily. Yeah, yeah, hopefully. So it becomes a, it becomes a really easy way in terms of anyone can do it anytime, and it's daily to be able to just turn it cold. And take a few deep breaths. And I think that has helped my mindset significantly in terms of just embracing hard things. And so I've just— and it's actually, it's like a muscle. The more you develop it, the more it grows. And so I continue to look for ways to challenge myself to do hard things, not just things that are physically hard, but usually almost anything physically hard is mentally hard. You have to win in your mind before you can win in your body. So even the rock climbing piece had to win in our minds first. Okay, we can do this, we will do this, we'll figure it out. And then we went and physically did it. So I think finding almost anything physical can result in growing your mental capacity or your toughness muscle or resilience muscle.

Oh, I love that. So I just let you into a little bit of 17-year-old Kelsey Higginson. She— I was very, I feel like, immature when it came to mental toughness, um, as a high schooler at least. It started to develop in college and even like after, um, as I've dove into that more and really deliberately tried to improve it. I mean, I wasn't doing much back then to help it. I, I was putting the time in the gym and all these things physically, but not as much mentally in, in that sense to stretch myself. And so another, another thing that I always will remember is like, we revert back— like, in times of high pressure, we revert back to our deepest health habits. And so my habit as a 17-year-old girl was, um, when pressure was on, whether it be for a test or whether it be for a game, my habit was in a way to crumble or to like to, to self-attack or to, to negatively speak to, um, myself. And it was really hard to break that habit. And so for people, for kids who might have maybe low mental toughness levels right now, and would you— would those things that you talked about, the cold plunge, these these other habits of just stretching yourself, will that translate well into the game of when it's time and high pressure— stakes are high, pressure is high— will that translate into them not reverting back to those habits that maybe those poor habits that they've had throughout?

Yeah, I think it can definitely help. And there's, there's a mantra that I would recommend for any athlete or any person to say to themselves. And it's actually the most powerful thing we can ever say to teammate, but we can turn it on ourselves as well. And it's the most powerful thing that we can say to our teammates in any environment. And I had to— in fact, I had to remind our staff of this during the pandemic when the world shut down and all of our camps shut down. And I reminded our staff, "We've got this. We've got this." And what's the best reminder or the best piece of encouragement you can give to a teammate? They make a mistake. And you just let them know, you've got this. They're stepping to the free throw line to shoot a game-winning free throw. You've got this. And I actually heard my son's girlfriend, now fiancée, he was working on a math problem at home one day and he just couldn't figure it out. And I heard her say to him, this is regarding math, not sports. She said, Isaac, you've got this. And I turned and smiled because I thought, wow. And nobody— I hadn't coached her on what to say. Somehow she was already a great leader. She had somehow discovered the power of those words and she affirmed him. "You've got this." And I think we can say that to ourselves. So if I could speak to the 17-year-old Kelsey Higginson, I would coach you into just starting in small ways to find when you make a mistake or you start to get a little bit down or a little bit discouraged, a little bit you're frustrated, to add to your language, "I've got this. I've got this." And to actually say it out loud so your ears hear it. There's power in our ears actually hearing our words. And so I would recommend it to any athlete to start using that language with yourself. "I've got this." Every once in a while I'll remind myself I'm about to, you know, do something I've never done before, like rock climbing, and, you know, I said to myself, looking up at this 150-foot cliff, saying, "All right, Watsa, I've got this. I've got this." Or talking to myself, "Watsa, you've got this." And it's powerful to say to a teammate. It's powerful to say in a team context, "We've got this." And it's powerful for ourselves, "I've got this." So I think that could be a starting point. And the more that language gets ingrained when you hit an obstacle, the stronger that reaction will be to anything that comes up against you. And I think I've gotten to a point now, especially growing just through leading PGC over the past 16 years with, as we've pursued growth, just any number of countless challenges we faced along the way, and have just had to bring myself back to, "I've got this. We've got this." And, you know, from a faith perspective, I come from a faith perspective. From a faith perspective, ultimately, I remind myself God's got this. And that's an affirming piece to help me to know I'm okay and I've got this because he's got me and he's got this. And so, you know, regardless of what it may be, I think those words can be really, really helpful from a mindset perspective.

That's perfect. I love how simple it is too, 'cause for a 16, 17-year-old, I mean, that was my world, right? And the fact that I would crumble or felt like I would crumble under pressure, that was really tough. And so even now, like, I wanna start adopting that mindset of just like, I've got this. Like, that's so helpful. And I love how simplistic it is. It doesn't have to be this long elaborate thing. It's just like this small little habit that can, end up making a huge difference compounded over time. Which actually leads me— I didn't plan this out, but leads me into my next topic I want to talk about with you. Perfectly. Um, small habits, when given enough time, can, can make, can make big effects, basically. So you talked about the waterfall analogy, how a waterfall, like there's this big powerful waterfall But once upon a time, it was just this small stream coming out of the mountain, and then it compounded and it grew and it grew. And it said small things become big things when given enough time. So what small habits do you recommend, or do you want players— like, maybe if we could only choose 3, what small habits would you have them start now to become big things over time? Hmm.

So first of all, almost any habit developed over time has a twofold benefit. One, you're going to grow in that area, you're going to strengthen that area. But secondly, James Clear, who wrote the book Atomic Habits, which has been one of the best-selling books in the world over the last few years, and got to know James, we brought him in to speak to our PGC staff. Back before he wrote the book Atomic Habits. And, and he said every action you take is a vote for the person that you are going to become. And the second benefit of developing a habit is that you're also, you're also developing your own identity as somebody who is disciplined and somebody who builds good habits. So there's always a twofold benefit when you develop a habit. And so it probably doesn't even matter which habit it is you're developing. The benefit of developing a good habit, whether it's an eating habit or drinking more water or going to sleep on time, not looking in your phone— at your phone in the last half an hour or an hour before you go to sleep, getting up at a set time, making your bed in the morning. I would say one of the best habits I know of is making your bed. And just consistently just choosing, whether you're 10 years old or whether you're 70 years old, making your bed. It gives you a win to start the day, and you're placing a vote right at the very beginning of the day. I'm a person who's organized. I'm a person who's disciplined. I'm a person who takes an action to create a positive result. And even though it's something as simple as making a bed that only takes 20 to 30 seconds, it's an action and a vote for the person that you want to be. And so that would be one that I think any one of us can apply every day. But I can't think of a better habit that can impact our lives than having some self-regulations around our phones. And whatever it might be, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to suggest you should do this or you shouldn't do this. But I know that's an area I'm just continuing to grow in. In fact, I'm in the midst of a couple-day social media detox where I'm not on social media from now until end of day on Saturday. And it's once again just doing something that helps to build a muscle to help you grow in a given area.

And you can find— I love that you spoke to— there's many different things that a small habit can do, and that maybe there aren't exactly this, this, and this recipe to become the great player. Like, there's a lot of different small good habits that you can start with. But I do love that you kind of talked about how it's all about kind of who you become as you build that small habit, as you become that person who puts that vote into who you want to be. There's this book, it's called Your Future Self Now by Benjamin Hardy. It's one of my favorite ones. Um, I, I don't know if it's a bestseller yet, but I, I will place my bet within the next 5 years that it will be. And I think it's one of the best books I've read up to, up to now. And he talks about that, how our future self is this mountain in front of us, and we get to choose. Like, with every action we do, you're either moving towards the mountain or away from the mountain. You can't just stand still. And it's very much like you were talking about, you either put the vote in or you don't vote. And so you take a step back to who you want your future self to be or that future player to be or anything like that. And so that analogy has resonated really well with me as whether it's nutrition, whether it's being a good mom, whether it's growing my business. And I really have to think and be deliberate with, okay, what actions do I want to show up and do today? What habits do I want to develop? To take me closer to that mountain of who I want to be. So I, I love, I love that analogy that you, you gave as well. And making your bed in the morning is a wonderful way to start it.

And every day we're strengthening a habit that's either helping us or hurting us. Nearly everything we do from sunup to sundown, we're developing a habit. And it's just a matter of, is it strengthening a habit that's that's helping us or hurting us. And we get to choose our hard. I'm actually going to be shooting a Monday Mindset video on this topic of choosing your hard, and it's becoming more and more common vernacular. But you choose your hard. I mean, in nearly anything, not training— or training is hard, but not reaching your goals maybe even harder. Yeah, you know, saving your money is hard, but being older and not having money that's been saved may be harder. You know, taking care of your body, exercise, eating right is hard, but lying in a hospital room because you're sick years down the road is maybe even harder. So we'll, we'll choose our hard, but every action we take is every day is either strengthening a habit that's helping us or hurting us.

Absolutely. And like you said, in the waterfall analogy, it's like— I believe in the compounding effect where, like you said, it's either strengthening or it's working against you. So as you, as you put deposits in towards becoming that person, you're either putting deposits in and investing, or you're taking deposits out and you're taking away, um, from that future self that you want to be. And so one of the most sobering ones that I heard was, if you have this goal, say you have this goal to play in the NBA or something like that, but you choose to go to bed super late, and that way you're not fresh, you're not ready for your 6 AM practice. And it's like, it was really sobering for me. It's like, okay, then you're choosing your goal of staying up late is more important than the big goal of you wanting to be an NBA player or be a very successful business owner or whatever it may be. And so that was very sobering for me to see something like that, of like, it might feel like a small decision in that day, but compounded over time, if that decision's continued to be made, I mean, a seed turns into a tree. Whether that's a good tree or a bad tree, that's kind of our choice. But I love that you, you, you spoke to that, so thank you for that. Yeah, awesome. Um, okay, there's one— there's just one more question I want to ask you, um, today. So you work I saw that you're working with over 17,000 individuals this summer, which is insane. Like, that's very exciting. For athletes attending your camps and coaches attending your camps, what is the number one lesson that you want each of those people to walk away with?

Hmm. You know, there's many lessons I want them to walk away with, and that we collectively as a staff want them to walk away with. My hope is that they walk away with the understanding it's bigger than the game. It's bigger than the game. And, and that all the other lessons that will certainly help them in their game and help them maximize their potential and help them hopefully achieve a lot of the goals that they have for their career. But that beyond that, that they're able to realize it's bigger than the game, and that ultimately if they can even realize it's bigger than me, it's bigger than me. Rick Warren wrote a book, Pastor Rick Warren wrote a book, Purpose Driven Life, and his very first page just had the words, "It's not about you." And if we can help our athletes to zoom out from just being zoomed in on themselves, to zoom out to see others, to see the needs, challenges, and desires of others, their teammates, whoever it may be, their coaches, even the referees, and to be able to see beyond themselves, to say, how can I make a contribution that is bigger than myself? And the amazing part is you talked about, in earlier in your career, Kelsey Higginson, when you experienced some frustration at times. And I experienced loads of frustration, discouragement, disappointment. And all of that came from— all of those feelings came from me focusing on me, me focusing on what was— what wasn't going right with me. And it's actually the most freeing thing an athlete can do to actually reach their potential. Is to take their eyes and their gaze off of themselves and to focus on others and how they can serve and support their teammates. It's actually the key to unlocking the greatness inside of you to actually not focus on you and to focus on others. So not only is it good for others, it's actually ultimately good for you as well. And so my hope is that athletes leave our sessions realizing it's bigger than the game and it's bigger than just them and that they have an opportunity to impact others, their teammates, their coaches, their family members, their classmates, and that they have the opportunity to positively impact and as we say at PGC, shape every environment that we're in. And so my hope is that athletes walk away with that understanding and that they get a vision then for who they want to be, not just as a player, but a vision of who they want to be as a leader, as a student, and ultimately as a person.

That's perfect. I just want to leave that there. Thank you so much, Mano, for being on, for sharing your years and years of experience and the lessons you've learned and that you're teaching other people. Those of you who have basketball players, the best thing you can do is send them to one of their camps, PGC's camps. They're all over the country. It was a life changer for me. And I even told my husband, I'm like, if I don't have basketball players and they're playing baseball or football, I might still send them to the camps and just sit in on the lectures. 'Cause that in and of itself is gold. So thank you, Mano.

Kelsey, it's been a delight being on with you. Just love your passion, love your dedication to serving and supporting athletes and parents as well. And keep up your great work. Thank you.