113: Transforming Health w/ Plant-Based Medicine: Dr. Laurie Marbas’ Journey: Military to Medicine

Welcome to the Health Science Podcast sponsored by the National Health Association. I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino, and today I'm delighted to have as my guest Dr. Laurie Marbas. Laurie is a medical physician that is board certified in both family medicine and lifestyle medicine. She has the Dr. Laurie Marbas Podcast. She's had a long history as a lecturer, author. She's written 7 books. I like those, uh, those visual mnemonic books really helping people memorize all that stuff we tried to memorize in medical school, you know what I'm saying? Pathology, physiology, biochemistry. But then you had that other book which I really like too, The Blueprints: Clinical Procedures, which I think is such a, a wonderful book to give people, you know, some of the more common procedures in, in practice and taking them through all of that. She was also the creator and first managing editor of the Plantrician Project International Journal on disease prevention and reversal. So, Laurie, welcome. It's so nice to have you. Welcome to the Health Science Podcast, brought to you by the National Health Association, the oldest organization in the world championing the extraordinary benefits of a whole plant food diet and healthy lifestyle, as well as water-only fasting. We believe that health results from healthful living And focus on evidence-based science that promotes the health of you and your loved ones, as well as the health of all animals and the environment. We feature experts from a cross-section of disciplines within the plant nutrition, vegan, psychological, environmental, and animal compassion sectors. I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino, the NHA's Director of Health Education.

Thank you for having me, Dr. Sabatino. I'm delighted to be here, so thank you.

Now, I, I noticed that you, in your bio, you talk about using plants as medicine from around 2012. So take me up to that point. What were the aha moments for you? What was the segue for you and your life to get to that place? Give us a little background so people get to know you.

Yeah, thank you. Um, well, I was— I, I I was active duty Air Force for 4 years and we settled in a little town called Rifle, Colorado. And so appropriate that I would go plant-based in a town called Rifle. Anyway, so I was— You're a MD? Yes, I'm a board-certified family medicine physician. So I was doing my regular, you know, clinic. I was not, you know, I'd take care of patients in the hospital, nursing home, clinic, you name it, ER. It was a small rural town. So we did a lot of everything. But I had a patient come see me one day, and she said, "You know, Dr. Marbas, meat and dairy upset my stomach." And I said, "Okay, stop eating meat and dairy." So this was early 2012, and intuitively I understood there were other foods, obviously. But it didn't dawn on me that oh, this is a vegan or a plant-based type diet because those terms just weren't in my vocabulary regularly. And she came back in 30 days, and she not only felt better, but she brought her. 16-year-old daughter with her to the appointment, actually made her miss school to come to the appointment. And I thought, well, this is interesting. What am I going to be talking to this 16-year-old about? My mother brain started kicking in and going, oh boy. And what was interesting, she goes, now tell Dr. Marbas what you did. And she goes, well, you know, there wasn't— there's not a whole lot of food choices. We had one Walmart and another grocery store in Rifle at that time. And so, and they weren't going to go out to eat in a town called Rifle and get a plant-based meal, so they were cooking at home. Wow. And her daughter said, you know, I really wanted to help my mom eat well, and so we started cooking together. And so I ate the food and I felt so good, I stopped both my attention deficit disorder medications, and I still feel really good. And that was mind-boggling to me. And, um, their mother looked at me and she goes, yeah, why was she able to do that? And I said, I don't know, but that's the coolest thing I've ever heard. So when that appointment was done, I Googled plant-based diet because I kind of, you know, we went into more detail of what they were doing and stuff and ADD. And of course, The China Study came up. I ordered it, I read it like in 2 days. And over the course of time, I had— trying to figure out how to do this myself. There wasn't a whole lot of help as far as, you know, doctors, how to transition, or even transitioning yourself. I mean, there was Dr. McDougall. He had a few articles for physicians on how to utilize this with, um, your own patients. But I had 3 teenagers at home. I had my husband. I was like, man, I need to do this because I really just—

Did you have children at that point already or not?

Yeah, they were 18, 16— no, 18, 15, and 13 at that time.

Oh wow, okay. Well, 3 teenagers, I give you a lot of credit for that one.

Yeah, yeah. And then, uh, my daughter is a physician now. She's in Boston. She's 30. My middle one is, uh, 28, uh, married and having baby coming. He's plant-based. He works for me. He lives in California. And then my youngest is 26, full-on plant-based, uh, lives in Hawaii, living his best life. And, and my husband and I, so, but I, I literally went home. I had a I started reading this stuff, and then I had another patient within a week or so come in, and she had lupus. And she was literally— I was like, you know, I'd really like to try this on a patient that's very inflamed and see what's going on. And she was on 12 different medications, high-dose prednisone. She was on, you know, medications that suppress the immune response because that's what lupus is. It's an autoimmune disease. And she was 50 pounds overweight, very tired, always in pain, migraines most days of the week. And she goes, I don't know what I can keep working. Here she is, she was younger than I was at that time, and she'd been diagnosed with lupus for about 2 years if I recall correctly. And what was interesting, you know, as she's talking to me, I was like, man, I think she should try this plant-based diet. And so I— as she, as she was done describing her symptoms, I said, you know, I don't know if there's much more we can provide as far as prescriptions, but can we talk about changing what's on the end of your fork? And she goes, I'll try anything. But before she left, I actually measured CRP, which is an inflammatory marker in the blood, and it was literally 3 times high normal. And when— and on all those medications. But she said— I said, come back in 2 weeks and we'll recheck and see how you're doing. 14 days later, her CRP had dropped 300%, just outside normal. Her migraines were gone. She was down 8 pounds. And she continued to pursue the plant-based diet. And over the course of about 5 months, she lost 50 pounds, stopped 11 to 12 meds. And around 2 years later, she actually was able to reverse any antibodies that would even detect the lupus. She was doing great. So those are some amazing stories. But then I went home when she came back at that 2-week point and said, that's it, we're going fully plant-based. The kids were like, okay, Mom's on her thing again. And my husband's like, well, are you still cooking? And I said, yeah. She goes, okay. And that was almost 13 years ago now, and here we are.

But there were no health issues in your life that were provocations for that? This was just a general change that you saw? Okay. Yeah.

No, the science and the patients completely convinced me, and it's been a blast. And I, you know, I tell people I jumped in the rabbit hole and I've yet to emerge. So.

Well, Laurie, I, you know, I found it interesting, uh, that there was an opportunity at one point in your history where you talk about getting involved with 2 hospitals in Colorado that were able to implement some plant-based programs. And in one of them, you did a study of about 26 people that were like employees of this hospital with great results. Can you talk about that and share what those results were. I think it would be really enlightening for the audience.

Yeah, of course. So we— that was actually at the same hospital that I went plant-based in Rifle. It's called Grand River. It's right off I-70. Wonderful staff. I had a lot of support from their CEO, their, you know, the president, or I guess he was called the executive something. Anyway, they were amazing. You know, it's a small community, so you get to know everyone very well. And, you know, they already knew I was plant-based. We're having some really fun. I had a friend of mine, Martin Oswald, that was a plant-based chef in Aspen, Colorado, which wasn't far from Rifle, about an 80-mile drive or so. And we convinced them to support us to do a study. And so Martin came in and worked with our, our kitchen, which was already wonderful. They had a great salad bar and stuff. And over the course of 30 days, we did some teachings once a week, and Martin did some, you know, teaching on how to cook at home. We prepared the meals, all the meals except for breakfast. We literally delivered them. I put them in the back of my car and would deliver them to people, and if they couldn't pick them up themselves. And what was cool was that we're seeing, you know, for example, if I were— I didn't refresh my brain for this particular, but definitely what stood out from, you know, we see anywhere from a couple of pound weight loss to 20-pound weight loss. 5 pre-diabetics were no longer pre-diabetic. Of course, you're seeing cholesterol drop, blood sugars improving, people were feeling better. And, um, that was just So big for me because I could understand that hospitals are feeding not only their patients, but they're feeding their employees. And it was a wonderful way to understand how the environment can change and literally it will help everybody who's there in that whole environment, not just the patients, but also employees who are helping the patients.

And then we were able to do blood work and all of that.

Yeah, they paid for it, everybody. Yeah, they, they volunteered.

That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

They I had to spend— what was really interesting was before we could actually— I got an IRB and everything, and what was interesting was I had to speak to their lawyers, and they were trying to convince us not to do it because of too much risk. I was like, we're literally— I'm having this discussion with you so I can feed people more vegetables. How is this going to put us at risk? And

it was so ridiculous when you think about it.

Amazing, but, um, we got it too. It was delightful, and, um, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun.

Laurie, we're going to take just a very short break to hear from our sponsor, the National Health Association, and we'll be right back. You're listening to the NHA Health Science Podcast. Dr. Frank Sabatino here. Are you ready for an extraordinary adventure that combines relaxation, exploration, and vibrant health? Then set your sails for the NHA plant-exclusive cruises. Imagine cruising through exotic destinations, savoring delectable plant-based cuisine, and engaging in rejuvenating activities, all while surrounded by like-minded individuals passionate about health and wellness. These cruises offer more than just a vacation. They offer an opportunity to immerse yourself in the NHA's Principles of Healthy Living, and they rank incredibly high on the ratings of eco-friendly cruise lines. We all know how important our oceans are, and our cruise partner Windstar is fully committed to this. Join us aboard our upcoming plant-exclusive cruises and experience the synergy of health and leisure. Delight in gourmet SOS free meals prepared by talented chefs, attend informative workshops, and enjoy the serenity of the sea, all tailored to nourish your body, mind, and spirit. For more details and to reserve your spot on our next adventure, visit healthscience.org and click the link under travel. Don't miss this chance to indulge in a wellness retreat like no other. Elevate your wellbeing and make memories that will last a lifetime. And remember, your feedback matters. Please take a moment to leave a rating and a review wherever you're listening to the NHA Health Science Podcast. I'm Dr. Frank Sabatino, your host. Now back to the show. Welcome back to the Health Science Podcast. I'm here with Dr. Laurie Marbas, and we're talking about her history, her work, and the study that she did in one of the hospitals in Colorado. I noticed also that, you know, you were connected early on as a creator and a very instrumental person in the Plantrician Project itself. And we have audience members that may not really know what that is and who that is. So can you share that and your dance with them and your connection with them and how that all evolved for you?

Yeah, of course. So Let me see, I believe it was Dr. Joel Fuhrman who interviewed me or introduced me to Scott Stoll, who is one of the co-founders of the Plant Nutrition Project, and basically it's a wonderful organization, boy, and that was 7, 8 years ago, so it was, it's been around for a bit, and their goal is to help physicians or practitioners, nurse practitioners, you name it, anybody in the medical field or just anybody who generally wants to come, but it's mostly medical professionals who go to these conferences, and they really enlighten them with the science of, you know, whole food plant-based living, eating, and just help each other understand what does that look like on a day-to-day basis. And it's just a great way to connect with others who think like us. So many times physicians feel like they're literally the lone wolf in the forest, you know, howling and nobody's listening. And so, um, that was beautiful that you can, you know, what my husband calls, you go back to the mothership and you recharge in these conferences like the ACLM and stuff. Mm-hmm. And so that's really how I first got involved with them was, um, when I was working with Dr. Fuhrman in Florida and he introduced us. And so what happened there was, um, it was really fun. Scott reached out to me and, uh, another gentleman and they are like, you know, Laurie, let's start a journal. I was like, well, do you know anyone who started a medical journal? And they're like, nope. I was like, well, okay, well, I guess we'll figure it out. And so that's what I did. I dove into the research. I I basically remember designing this journal with little Post-it notes all over our bedroom wall because I just was like, there were so many things to check off and ways to approach it. And shortly thereafter, once we really understood the mechanics behind it and what we had to get it all done, we brought on Dr. Kim Williams as the editor-in-chief, which was phenomenal. He's still there. But after a few years, I, you know, started doing some other things, and we turned it over to a very capable young woman, Katie, who took over my managing editor component. But it was a really interesting, cool way to kind of be on this backside of it and understanding the mechanics of it. And the neat thing about it is they're completely— there's no charge to see, it's all open. There's not behind a paywall, and there's no charges to the authors, right? And so many times we'll get new authors who are trying to put their toe into research and, and actually, um, publishing. So that's really fun too, to kind of put them, you know, take them under the wing and help them along, and, uh, especially early on in the journal's history. So yeah, it was fantastic.

It wasn't really only about helping physicians that were like, uh, spinning in the wind. It was also a way that, you know, people looking for doctors of that ilk could now have an organization that they could kind of go to and, and find plant-based physicians probably closer to where they live and kind of open up the whole dialogue of that. Absolutely. So that's kind of a cool thing that, you know, there was that opportunity for people to now find doctors that they— because they're always asking, you know, whenever you run into people, oh my God, I would love to find somebody. They have their regular physicians, but they would love to find somebody that can resonate with the lifestyle changes they're trying to make. And this was part of that. And I know part of that for you was also the fact that you had started that Mora Medical telehealth service too. So I know that was a big piece for you, uh, business-wise early on, but I don't know if you're still connected to that anymore at all, but I know you set that in motion. So,

well, I actually, I was co-founder of Plant-Based Telehealth originally. And, um, so we launched Plant-Based Telehealth in March of 2020, and then we sold it to John Mackey, who founded Whole Foods in 2022.

Right.

And one of the investors who was part of Plant-Based Telehealth, he was like, wow, this would be great because Plant-Based Telehealth, which is now Love Life, which is a wonderful— if you want to find a doctor as well, they're fantastic. Um, the, uh, one of the investors like, well, this would be great if we could, you know, take the similar type model but utilize insurance in these different states. And so that's where Mora kind of was born and What was interesting, we ended up shutting it down about a year and a half later. The drudgery of getting insurance to pay, number one, just the loopholes of the administrative task. Right. And we had, we had venture funding, like, so we weren't trying to bootstrap it like, you know, Anthony and I did with Plant-Based Telehealth. And so what was interesting was this, we, I think we probably grew too quickly. But once we were in the States, we were starting to get paid, we were doing utilizing group models, was really patient acquisition and trying to understand how to get in front of the patients who really needed these services. And so I think, you know, there were some great lessons learned there, but we decided to shut it down because we didn't have the funding to support the network that we needed to make it a profitable business. Right. Because at the end of the day, it's still a business and But it was great. I've learned so much from starting and selling and starting and shutting down businesses and now running my own. I can't ever work for anyone ever again.

Well, on this show, we've probably interviewed at least almost a dozen doctors from Love Life Telehealth. So we've had a number of people that are connected with them on the show, and they're all lovely people. They're all trying to do good work. So look, it's got to be a little bit of a difficult model because You know, sometimes seeing people in person does have value, and sometimes seeing people at a distance can create some shortcomings. And plus the fact that the people that are seeing you on the telehealth probably also have their own home physicians that may not be sympathetic to the kinds of information you're sharing on the telehealth service. I don't know if that's an issue or not, but I could see where that could be a little bit of an issue.

It depends on the patient. I will get questions like, how should I approach my doctor? You know, we talk about their relationship with the doctor, You know, as far as their personality of the doctor, many doctors are open to it, they're like, wow, we're just getting some additional support and, you know, I think it behooves the physician to embrace any lifestyle changes that are going to improve the health of their patients, so, but there are, you know, doctors who have a bit of a like, these are my patients, nobody else touch them, you know, they get very territorial. Um, We are human, and so doctors have their own human feelings and egos and such. But, and so, um, it really depends on if I'm managing medications, because if I'm managing medications, that might get a little bit more touchy. But most the time, you know— Excuse me. They're seeing their doctors, the patients that I see anyway, they're typically seeing their annual visits, and then I kind of take over that chronic piece. that chronic disease management, um, and then we actually see, you know, patients reducing medications and they can go back and see their doctor how often they want, and most of the time the doctor's like, well, whatever you're doing, just keep doing it, um, or someone will come to me and say, hey, I have a— here's my situation, can you just give me some advice on how to approach my doctor, this is what they're wanting to do, what do you think, and those are great too, so I'm happy to, you know, just put a, a different, uh, spin on it, a different perspective from the kind of a more holistic approach.

Laurie, just thanking you for your service. I know you were in the Air Force for 4 years. Were you deployed? Were you already a physician when you were deployed? Was that already— were you already a doctor?

Yeah, so I went into the military as a physician. They helped me pay for medical school, so I paid back my 4 years, and I was deployed to the Middle East and to South America. So yeah, really interesting.

Was there anything special that experience informed in terms of your professional life at all?

Um, I think it— the, the Middle East experience really helped me understand that I didn't want to do it anymore. Mm-hmm. Um, and how politically an institution can mean well, but they're driven— where I had, for example, a patient who had been exposed to an IED, and it's basically an explosive device, and blew out both his eardrums. And he, real young man, needed to go back to the United States or at least Germany and get surgery to correct it so he didn't, you know, actually become deaf. Um, but in when in those type of situations, like if we had a medical emergency, like we could literally pull planes out of the sky and send someone if they were life-threatening. For this thing, it was a bit more not life-threatening, but it obviously could be the morbidity was high for this young man. And, uh, basically his Uh, commanding officer said, no, he can, he can push paperwork here. And so we sent him back. And so it was like really frustrating for me to understand politically. Um, I didn't want to partake in that anymore. I had originally gone in thinking I wanted to serve. I had wonderful people that I met. I mean, the people who are willing to sacrifice what it takes to be in the military are phenomenal human beings.

Right.

But the other thing that really stuck to me was how many people, you know, when I was back home at Langley, I was stationed at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, uh, was, you know, people were being dismissed or discharged from the— they had what we call a medical board, and they were dealing with type 2 diabetes, insulin dependent, or they had sleep apnea. And so many lifestyle things were causing people who wanted to stay and continue to serve their country, uh, were unable to. And if I would have understood then what I know now, I feel like that could have just really shifted, um, quite a bit for so many people.

Laurie, before we go on, I want to make sure that people know where they can find you. So tell them the URL where they can find you.

Sure, thank you. Um, it's drmarmarbas.com. So D-R-M-A-R-B as in boy, A-S dot com.

And another program that I really like, I want to talk to you about. I noticed that you established this Healing Kitchen with Brittany Giroudy. So let's, let's talk about that marriage of the doc and the chef. I love that idea. So let's talk about how that came to be and what is that actually doing and how is it operating and what's going on with it?

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Well, Brittany and I have been friends for a bit and she was, had contacted me early last year in 2023 to, as you know, if we could work together. And we were kind of in the middle of Morin trying to figure out what to do. And I was like, well, there's nothing really yet, but I kept, you know, that, kind of in the background of my mind. And then when we shut down more or less summer, I reached back out to you. I was like, hey, let's talk about what we can do. And we came up with the concept of the Healing Kitchen. And so basically, you know, there's 2 things people are typically looking for: recipes and medical advice. So he's like, you know, this seems like a wonderful marriage. She's such a delight. Who doesn't love Brittany Drury?

She's amazing. She's amazing. Yes, she's beautiful.

Like a doll that you could just hug all day. So basically, um, She comes up with these amazing recipes, as we all know she does, and we, we meet weekly live, and basically she does the first half hour and then I do the last half hour of answering medical questions, and then I start doing workshops every month with an ebook that I produce, and we're about to launch probably in the next 30 days or so an entire course on how to start a plant-based diet, um, When they'll get a whole year's worth of meeting with us live weekly on Wednesday evenings, and they're all recorded. You have access to all of them, all the past workshops, all of it's available. So we're super excited about that.

That's beautiful. I think it's great because people need to see how easy it actually is to do. The more simplistic it is, the more likely people are going to do it. So yeah, that's great. So when we look at You know, where you are, are you involved with thinking about any new research projects down the road, or what's on the horizon for

you? I have actually, because I've kind of really been through this menopausal transition myself very recently, the last year, I just turned 54 yesterday. And what was interesting was just how this process of these hormonal fluctuations, even someone who is very healthy and doing all the things, can actually affect you. And so I really started diving into the research, and I actually took the menopause— there's an organization called the Menopause Society, and I took their certification and got certified. So it's kind of like a lifestyle medicine certification, but it's in the, you know, the arena of menopause, perimenopause. And so that's really— I actually run coaching groups for that and help women, um, one, engage with the plant-based diet. If they're already doing a plant-based diet, how to tweak it, do better, and consider all the, you know, opportunities for filling and improving their lives. be it lifestyle, medications if they need it or whatnot, and understanding the science, um, behind what's going on so they don't feel so hopeless. Um, because there's well over 35 different symptoms of perimenopause, menopause, and it's really tricky for some women, especially as you're entering into that later 40s. Um, it's pretty wild, right? Many women do great, but others like myself, holy moly. But yeah, so I feel it was an opportunity. I feel like the universe is like, we need someone to start talking about this. I'm like, okay, Let's go for a ride. And so here we are.

Now, I noticed that you also have 2 other things. You have— you wrote that you have a small concierge practice and you have the Laurie— the Dr. Laurie Marbas Podcast. So is that still in play, those 2 things? Are they still operating?

Yeah. So I still— I've been doing the podcast now well over 8 years, definitely interviewing people. I have hundreds and hundreds of interviews. More recently, it's just been the teaching that I'm doing, but I will bring on people intermittently. Like, I think the most recent was Chef AJ. Um, I have Mark Reinfeld coming on. He's a chef. I have some folks from ProLon coming on. Um, and so there's opportunities there. So the podcast is still going. Just search Dr. Laurie Marbas. Again, tons. All those are also on YouTube, my YouTube videos. And then I've been seeing patients for the last year and a half. I'm licensed in all 50 states and also DC.

I don't know how you— I don't know how you did that. That's like an amazing thing. You know that, right? That's like—

yeah, it's a— is— it was a process. It took me about 3 years, um, I'm just pretty sure I aged during those 3 years, um, because we're also launching Plant-Based Cell Health and growing that business. But, um, yeah, but now it's— I've got a really good system. I'm very organized. I'm not a procrastinator in any way, shape, or form. And so it's pretty easy for me to stay on top of now. But yeah, but it's delightful to be able to see patients all over the country, um, and it's, it's been good.

Laurie, as busy as you are with family, you're also an avid runner, you work out. Talk to people how you express those pillars of lifestyle medicine in your very busy life. Let's talk a little bit about that, because sometimes I think people see us as being like in an ivory tower, not realizing that we, we're doing our day-to-day stuff too, you know what I mean? So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, well, for example, every single morning we go for walks with our dog. If I'm by myself, I will you really focus on the mindfulness aspect. I feel like mindfulness has been a very important factor in my life. Yeah. And so that piece is there. Um, the walking, of course, definitely hitting most days 15,000 to 16,000 steps a day. Um, and then with running as well, what is interesting, uh, last year when I, I went through that really— when my periods quit, I had ran, uh, the half marathon in Boston with my daughter actually and PR'd. And, uh, then I fell off the menopause cliff. But so my running kind of got sidetracked by severe joint discomfort. That's much better. But that, that really made me understand how I need to focus in more on mobility training. So like this morning, um, I did mobility training. I do that maybe 3 to 4 times per week. Um, but I'm eating a whole food plant-based diet, paying attention, um, to my sleep. Um, I just ordered a, you know, people, it's kind of similar to an Oura Ring, but I wear the smartwatch. I'm looking at the data Making sure I'm going to bed at a certain time. I don't drink alcohol. I never have. I don't like the taste of coffee, so I drink a lot of tea. Staying well hydrated, but sleep has to be on top of it along with movement, looking at the diet. But man, if you can focus in on what's stressing you, that will allow you to sleep better, which will allow you to move better, which will make you, you know, make better food choices. And just understanding that that really is important and simplifying my life. We've actually recently sold our home in California because I moved from Colorado to California to start Mora. And now all the kids are grown and out and doing their thing. And so my husband and I, we sold it and we literally bought an RV and we're traveling the country and I'm working. We're having a blast, as you can kind of tell this RV background.

That's right.

We're having so much fun. Yeah, I was with, uh, Rip Esselstyn at Plant Strong just in Sedona this last— a couple weeks ago. And so we're still here. We'll leave on Saturday, go back to California and hang out for a while. But it's been so much fun just to get rid of everything and just downsize and simplify life. And I should have done this a long time ago. But anyway, yeah, it's been a blast. Absolutely loving it.

Laurie, as we wind this down, do you have any final words you'd like to share with the audience out here?

Um, no, I, you know, I think one thing That I really, really always want to encourage patients to understand that they don't have to be a victim of their circumstances. And it really is a matter of just starting tiny. And one of the patients that I love to kind of share her story is, you know, she was in her mid-60s and we were talking about how to get more movement and exercise. And we're like, okay, I'm like, what do you do every single day? And she's like, well, I wait for my coffee to brew. I'm like, okay, what can you do in that 5 minutes every single day? And she was kind of like confused. I was like, can you do a push-up against a wall or the counter? She goes, yeah, I could do that. I said, can you do 2? She goes, yeah. I was like, show me. She showed me. I was like, okay, I want you to do that every day. She's like, okay. And so, you know, a few months went by and I followed up with her, but I kind of had forgotten about the 2 push-up thing. But she was like on it. And she goes, Dr. Marbas, you didn't ask me about my push-ups. I was like, no, tell me. She goes, I can do 60. I was like, 60? Like, 6-0? She goes, yes. I'm like, whoa. I was like— and then she brought up her muscles and showed me her guns, as we like to call them. And, uh, it just shows the power of these small habits. And then it trickled over into her doing more walks, and then it trickled over to her feeling confident, right? And, you know, it just— it's honestly getting goosebumps just thinking about how, how proud she was to show me how well she had done, and it just started with this tiny small habit. So just where in your day can you just make one thing a little bit better and stick with it every day, and before you know it, your snowball is, is huge. And that, that's really, really important. Don't, don't give up.

I can't thank my, my guest enough, Dr. Laurie Marbas, for sharing her expertise, her information. I urge you to follow her. You see the location scrolling across the screen, drmarbas.com, to follow up and work with her, especially the Healing Kitchen, which sounds like an amazing thing. I want to really thank everyone that's joined us tonight because without you, we can't do what we do. I want to thank you for being part of this active, healthy community. On behalf of the National Health Association, I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino. Thank you. And I look forward to being with you on the next episode of the Health Science Podcast. Thank you, Laurie, so much. So appreciate it.

Thank you for having me. It was an honor to be here.

You've been listening to the Health Science Podcast brought to you by the National Health Association. Thank you for joining us today and for your commitment to evidence-based health science that backs a whole food plant-exclusive lifestyle. And contributes to the well-being of all people, animals, and our environment. I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino. Be sure to leave a rating and a review, and we'll see you on the next show.