How To Overcome Food Cravings & Eat Mindfully For Good | Chef AJ LIVE! with Dr.Laurie Marbas

Awesome. Hey, everyone, and welcome to Chef AJ Live. I am your host, Chef AJ, and this is where I introduce you to amazing people like you who are doing great things in the world that I think you should know about. Well, today is day 5 of the Ultimate Weight Loss Bundle Week, where we are featuring several times a day wonderful contributors to the bundle. What is a bundle, you may ask? Well, it is a bundle. It is where you take a lot of things and bundle them together. In this case, 111 distinct products, ebooks, courses, live events, MP3s, Of your favorite plant-based doctors, chefs, influencers, athletes, and more for the ridiculously low price of $49. And when you think about the fact that there's a $10 off coupon for Plant Strong products, it's like $39. Ridiculous, because when you buy these things separately, it would cost over $4,700. These wonderful contributors will never be together again like this for this bundle. And much of it, most of it was created just for the bundle. So if you'd like to get it from Dr. Laurie Marbas, who's today's guest, just click the link below. And she will get credit for that. And she's gonna talk about the book that she wrote for the bundle, which is a very important topic because so many people have cravings. And it's a book about how to overcome those cravings and eat mindfully for good. One of my favorite plant-based people, Dr. Laurie Marbas. It's always good to see you.

Thank you. That was wonderful. And thank you for having me and inviting me to be a part of the bundle. I think it's a fabulous bundle. Fabulous way for people to get their hands on so many amazing products.

Right. And I'm just so honored that people of your caliber and, you know, Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. Esser and Dr. Davis and Dr. Krant and Dr. Pye and Dr. Goldner, all these doctors were willing to do it because we didn't just focus on veganism. And veganism is great, by the way. I'd rather people be vegan than not vegan. I get— people get mad at me and say that I'd rather people be a junk food vegan than eat Animal products healthfully, if you can even do that. But we really concentrated on the health aspect. And even though we called it the Weight Loss Bundle, even if you don't need to lose weight, there's so much in there because it's focused on health. It's whole food plant-based. It's no oil. It's minimal or no sugar and salt, and it's mostly low fat. So thank you for being part of it and tell us all about the book that you wrote for it.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one of the reasons, um, I actually even just started my podcast, The Healthy Human Revolution, is because I really need to understand the behavior aspects. Because I really feel there's so much data on the science of how to eat healthy plant-based diet. We should be exercising. We should be sleeping. All these things. That's fabulous. But so many people don't do it like they understand, but then they don't stick to it. They struggle. And one of them, of course, is the nutrition. I feel like if we can get the nutrition in line and your sleep, a lot of things, other things will fall into place. And so I started interviewing people like, why were you able to do it and someone else isn't? And it led me down some really interesting rabbit holes. And, You know, 2 of them, of course, were behavior structure, like how to— which you talk about all the time, your environment, right? If it's in your house, you're going to eat it. That's what you say. Eat it. It's in your house. It's in your mouth type of thing. I've stolen that phrase often, giving you credit. And so that's really helpful. But also the mindful aspect, how we just, you know, we turn off a thinking mind and we just focus in on mindless eating. We don't think about what we're doing. It's like, you know, you're eating that bag of chips. By the end of the movie, you're like, where did the bag of chips go? Who ate it? literally all in your stomach. And so that's kind of where I started going. And I met people like Dr. Jed Brewer and BJ Fogg and just had some really amazing interactions and learned so much from them and some other research and just my own experience. And if you can combine mindful eating with a whole food plant-based diet, this is where I feel the sweet spot is, because so many people are then overcoming the physical, the physiologic, you know, the dopamine receptors going off or being fed with the processed foods. You're eating these really healthy because you feel better physically, but then you're also doing the mindful aspect and you're not— you're learning to overcome and dismantle the habit loops that have got you to the place you are already. And so that really is, I feel like, the really one-two punch to just kind of knock it out of the park.

Right. So like food cravings, Dr. Marbas, are they emotional? Are they physiological? Maybe they're a little bit of both.

Yeah, absolutely. So there's this thing called reward-based learning. And so what happens is we learn early on to associate memories or emotions with an activity or food or an object. For example, when we're little kids, we go to birthday parties and you're getting birthday cake and ice cream and all your friends are with you. You're having all sorts of lovely interactions and it's a happy time. Well, your brain remembers this like, this is a good memory, I'm going to remember this in the future. So when you're then faced with some stressful situations, you get a stressful email, you have a discussion with a loved one that didn't go well, you're struggling with whatever anxiety stresses, you know, whatever that might be, your brain's like, you remember that day we had that ice cream, we felt so good, and that dopamine was set off? Let's go do that again. And that's kind of how that cycle— so you're reinforcing, you know, 2 things. One, either you're removing a negative, you're removing the negative emotion, but you're also having this positive And feeling good. So that just reinforces this habit over time. And so that's kind of where we're at. So there's a physiologic and emotion component to it.

That is very interesting. So eating mindfully, is that the same as intuitive eating?

I think it's part of it. All right. So when you think about intuitive eating, little kids intuitively know how to eat, right? If we feed them healthy foods, they'll tell you when they're hungry and they'll tell you when they're not. And I think part of that is that we start dismantling the intuitive things that we come hardwired with in our childhood. Right. So how many of us grew up saying, you know, our families are like, sit down, eat everything on your plate. There's starving children in Africa. I don't know how many times I was told that. But when you were physically no longer hungry or you just didn't have that hunger, little kids will tell you when they're hungry, even when they're 2, they're being picky one day. I promise they're not going to starve to death. They'll eat the next day. I've raised 3 grown children, raised them just like that. And they're doing just fine. As far as I know, they're all in their 20s. They seem to be thriving. No one's told me that that was long-term damage. And that's part of that intuitive eating. But so now what we've done is we've taken where we could just have these intuitive habits of like, oh, I'm hungry, I need to eat. We have to reinstate that. Right. And that mindful practice is part of that to get back in touch with understanding what intuitive hunger is. Right. What is hunger? Am I actually hungry? Am I eating because of hunger? Am I eating from some other reason because food availability is so prominent now. We don't understand why we're eating. Like, there'll be times, even myself, and I don't, I don't think I've ever had an ill relationship with food. I'll be standing in front of the refrigerator going, why am I standing here? I'm not hungry. It's because I was overwhelmed or bored or whatever. And there's only healthy food in there. Nothing's going to trigger me to chow down. But it was really interesting. But I'm I've understood and talked about this so much that even that practice in my own life has been beneficial to me, you know, because I'm like, I'm not really hungry. If I was really hungry, my stomach's gurgling. Like, I haven't eaten since, you know, 7:00 AM this morning. I'm a little hungry now. My stomach's been raring, you know, but, um, that is intuitive hunger. That's telling me, yes, the body's ready to receive nourishment and move on with its day.

Well, do you think sometimes you can ascertain whether it's hunger Or not by the choice a person makes?

Um, yeah, I think so, right? So because if, if you're really thinking about the foods that you're, you're wanting to put into your body, you know, if you're really hungry, an apple is going to satisfy your hunger, right? You know, if you find that you eat the apple and you're still wanting something, there's probably some other secondary layer involved that you're probably not truly hungry. So there's probably some other motivation of why you're seeking Comfort in certain foods.

Yeah. And also, I think that processed food really tricks the brain and the satiety mechanisms, because even if, let's say you are really hungry, physiologically hungry, but if you eat food like, you know, Cheetos with what they have called, you know, I'm sure you read Michael Moss's book, this idea of vanishing calorie density, you could eat thousands of calories and still actually not be full.

Oh, I know. And that, that's a beautiful part of the conversation I have with patients. Like, listen, they're— you're fighting against an industry that spends billions of dollars. You know, just like you said, there's a bliss factor. There's this— it's just the right crunch. It's just like, you know, it's melting just not too long. It's not too sweet, not too sour. All of these foods, just to see— they look to see the science of what will make someone eat more. And so literally, when they say you can't just eat one, you really can't just eat one. It's, it's packaged to make you overeat. And that's what we're dealing with. So we, we have to have You know, it really kind of frustrates me. You'll read about like, oh, there's no bad foods, there's no good foods. I'm like, actually, there are bad foods or we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in right now. So it's OK to judge food. We're not living in a whole food environment. Yes. If we just had the options of whole foods, there would be that argument. But we don't live in an environment where there's Frankenfoods. These are not good things to be putting into our bodies. So, yes, there are bad foods, quote unquote foods, if you want to categorize them as foods.

Yeah,

drives me crazy.

Yeah, you have a quote in your book from Wayne Dyer that I love: healthy habits are learned the same way as unhealthy ones, through practice.

Exactly. So the more you do it, right? So, um, one of my favorite books is Dopamine Nation, and I interviewed Dr. Anna Lembke. And what was really cool about that was just, you know, you just got to give your body some space, you know, away from these things so you can make thoughtful decisions. You know, the decision's still yours, but give your body the chance and mind to do this without being under the pressure of an addiction. Right. You know, let's just sit back and let things calm down, so to speak, and then make a better decision. So 30 days at least being abstinent from these things and then think about what you really want. Do you really want these foods or do you want something different?

Right. Well, you know, Lent is coming up. It'd be a good time for people to do this experiment.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And 40 days would be a phenomenal way to move forward. And then there's also the social acceptance of doing something like that. Right. So you're kind of Removing the stigma, doing this outside of that, your religious community is going to be supportive of doing these type of things. And so there's multiple reasons why you should do it during Lent.

Right. Well, people are saying you have a wonderful voice and a wonderful personality.

Oh, thank you.

I'm like the Grinch, says Stacy, always saying, am I eating just because I'm bored? Says Stacy.

Exactly.

Hungry, angry, lonely, tired, stressed, a lot of reasons, depressed, anxious. A lot of people eat outside of hunger.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I was deployed to the Middle East, when I was in the Air Force, it was really interesting. They had the really— they had this saying, either come back fit or fat, right? So you're dealing with stress. So people are either going to be motivated to exercise or they were going to be chowing down on the processed foods that were made available to us. And it literally was those two. You came back in better shape or worse shape. And I feel like we're kind of always in that fight in everyday life, right, where it's constantly being bombarded with stress and Um, way more than we used to. And we're not made for that. We're not built for that. And if you don't take heed and take care of yourself and allow yourself time to decompress and be thoughtful and give yourself life margin, um, we're going to be more prone to making these rash decisions and eating unhealthy.

You know, you were in the military and I'm curious, like, did you see— I mean, there's not the healthiest food they're serving and I don't know if it's getting any better. Right.

Um, you know what though? I got out in 2010. I served 4 years. And no, you know, it's— I think the Air Force does a pretty good job of giving you more choices than some of the other services. You know, they always say, you know, the Air Force is the soft service. I'm like, no, we're just a smart service. We take better care of our people. But anyway, that's an inner, inner service joke. But no, you know, I'm hoping that it's better. I do know there are some physicians who are active duty who are in engaging in lifestyle medicine and trying to promote a healthy plant-based way of eating. I'm hoping that as we also grow plant-based telehealth, that we're able to engage in the military because there's such phenomenal humans in active duty because they're service-oriented. They're literally willing to sign life away and just go into some very uncomfortable and remote areas that other people go, no. So I really think it's— there's an amazing population that needs to be served for sure.

You know, I cannot imagine anything more stressful than— I don't want to say being in the military in general, but especially like active combat, you know? So do you see emotional eating then? I mean, it just seems like—

Yeah. So it's funny because, you know, when you go to— so when you're deployed, so you're at a base, right? And then there's forward deployment. So there's smaller units that go out and there's lots of processed foods made available, right? It's easy to ship. Families are constantly shipping you things because they want you to, you know, have some little touch of home. And so it's very, very easy to eat unhealthy. And then your MREs are not the healthiest things. They're full of high calories, fat, sodium. Sometimes kosher MREs are a better choice if you're in that position where you have to rely on them. But honestly, it's— it is not a healthy eating environment because I, as being a physician in the military, I was constantly being, you know, I was, I was actually tasked to be on what they call boards where people were actually removed from the military because of chronic disease, diabetes, sleep apnea, because these were not compatible with being ready to go any day at any moment for a mission.

I'm guessing there's not a lot of people that are vegan or plant-based that are like joining the military necessarily.

You know, I don't know. It's because it was a couple of years after I got out that I I haven't done a survey, but it would be very interesting to find out, especially as this movement grows, how many people are actually active duty and plant-based and how the military is responding to that.

That would be kind of cool. I mean, maybe they could even get vegan MREs. What's an MRE taste like? Like, is it just like a prepackaged— like, what is it, prepackaged? Is it like a bar? Is it—

Well, um, it's very interesting. It's dehydrated foods. They give you this little apparatus, you can actually create a heat source and heat things up. You add water. Now, these were meant to be life-sustaining and gain weight. They're very constipating. Many times they'll come with some things to help you poop. And so they're not super tasty, but they'll get the job done when calories are needed to sustain a human for life. It's not meant to be your culinary experience. It's meant to be life-sustaining for a moment and easy to pack and last for a period of time.

You know there's something wrong with the food if it has to come with a laxative, right?

Yes, 100%. And these things are— they're serious. It's not— because when we go out and we do like exercises in practice, I like— I had ate to the minimal amount because I did not feel well after eating these things.

Do they even taste good at all, or are they just kind of like a lot of sugar?

Sometimes, sometimes they taste good. And you know, there will definitely— there's definitely bartering going on. You know, so for— I could easily get, you know, I'd live off crackers and stuff. And some of my male comrades, I would, you know, say, hey, you want the Salisbury steak thing or whatever it is? And I'll take your crackers. Like, sure. Because they're seeing it's food, I need more food. And I'm like, I could live off crackers right now. Thanks.

That is so funny. That is so funny. Jerry says, Dr. Marbas is one of my all-time favorites. Her skin is flawless. All that healthy living looks good on her.

Aw, thank you. I'll pay you later.

Yeah, your skin is really beautiful. Any special products or is it just the plants?

It's strictly plants. I mean, I wash myself. I don't wear a lot of makeup a lot of times, so unless I'm on, you know, places like this and in public. I think there's also some genetics involved. My mom looked young for a long time. My daughter looks like she's 2 and she's 28. She'll be 28 next week.

And she's going to medical school, right?

No, she's already a physician. She's in her intern year. She's in Boston. Austin Family Medicine. Yeah. Here you go. Another young family doctor is a plant-based doctor.

Yeah. Another Dr. Marbas. Let's get her on the show. We should have all kinds of the doctors. That's amazing.

He is brilliant, too. I wish I could be as smart.

Oh my God, that you must be so proud.

A little bit.

In your book, you have, you have like 4 steps on how to begin being mindful.

Yeah. So there's some really interesting, easy practices. And I stole this from my good friend, Dr. Jay Brewer. He knows I tell him all the time I'm stealing this. You're like, OK. So one of them is specifically to RAIN. I really like this. It's a very simple thing to remember. It's an easy acronym. So when you have this feeling, this craving, it's like, oh my goodness, the fire's turned on. You want to do something. Remember, we want to put time and distance between the craving and that initial urge and the actual action. And this RAIN exercise allows you to do that because remember, cravings are feelings. It'll pass with time. And so the first thing is, one is recognizing that it's occurring, right? Don't run from it, don't fight it, just, okay, it's here, I got it, it's gonna be okay, deep breath. The one is acknowledging that it's existing and that it's like you would acknowledge someone walking down the street. Someone says, Heidi, you're like, hey, see you there, it's all good. And then think about investigation, I for investigation. So it's some outside of, you know, judgment of yourself. This is not meant to be a judgmental exercise. It's not meant to be beating yourself up because you're having cravings. That's just normal human experience. But it's just investigating what's occurring. This is the mindful aspect of it. We're becoming mindful and present in the moment. So that would be something like, am I hungry? It's like me. So I'm opening the door. Why am I standing in front of the refrigerator? What happened right before here? What was that prompt or that trigger? Oh, I got this email or, oh, I just realized I have You know, this many things going on or, oh, you know, whatever it may be. And I'm worried about, you know, the Russians invading Ukraine, all these things. There's so many things that are just hitting us right now. And, you know, just saying, well, how did that feel? Was I tightening my chest? Am I holding my breath? Am I— you know, what's going on in my body? What's going on in my mind? You know, when was the last time I ate? How am I going to feel if I eat this now? You know, all of these questions that come bubbling up, just be happy to answer them. And they're like they said, there's no judgment. It's just you and your experiences. There's, there's no one else in your brain to talk to about it. It's just literally you're just discussing this with yourself. And you know what's nice about that is as you're doing that, the brain is also listening. Your mind is listening to this conversation going, now, at the end of this, if we decide not to eat, maybe this isn't such a reward after all. Right. So at the end of And there's in, there's noting. And the note is, you know, that craving passed. I, I see what was going on. I'm mindful of it. And, you know, honestly, I don't really want that. I'm not really hungry. And so what happens is in this habit loop, you have your prompt or trigger, the behavior, and this reward. But if we dismantle the reward, we remove the reward, the entire habit falls on itself. Because if you have no foundation, you have no motivating reason why the brain keeps us going. The brain's like, Why do I keep spending energy on this habit when honestly it's detrimental? I don't find it as a reward. That dopamine gets turned off and you'll find it so much easier to walk away. And I have a really quick example of how that works. I had a patient who, even before I went to the plant-based diet, who smoked 2 to 3 packs of cigarettes a day. And I told him, you're going to die from cancer. It's way more expensive. All these things. And he's like, I just enjoy it. I don't want to quit. Until one day his granddaughter came up to him and was crying and she's like, Papa, I don't— I don't want you to die. And he's like, you're not— I'm not going to die, sweetheart. And he goes— she goes, yes, you are. Anybody who smokes is going to die. And right then was the last time he ever smoked. And he said there literally was no reward because whatever he was getting from that physiologically, mentally was not even worth the cost of pain to his granddaughter, who he loves so dearly. And that's exactly what he became. of the damage of what was going on with this activity to others around him. And so that was his, his factor of dismantling the habit, which had been going on for decades. Again, I just find this so fascinating, this little 3-pound thing in our— between our ears.

Susanna says, cravings are feelings. They will pass with time. What a great line for Dr. Marbas. If cravings never went away, then no one would ever be able to quit smoking or drinking or junk food, because they really do. They wax and wane. It's just like hunger, too, because I always think about, like, you know, People, well, I was so hungry. I had to eat XYZ. There was nothing healthy. You know, I always feel like if people can fast on water at True North for 40 days, even people that are not overweight, like somebody could delay hunger for like 20 minutes. I mean, I have sometimes trouble doing that, but you know, I'm just saying cravings do go away. Yeah,

absolutely. Even your physical hunger, right? Your body will not always put you in this place because it understands we're built to have days of fasting, right? Because remember food, we're living in a different world than we were actually evolved to live in. So, you know, there's a— it's just a different way to understand our physiology. And once we understand we don't have to eat unless you're diabetic with insulin or, you know, some very special cases. Um, when I told patients that, you know, when I go out though, you know, everyone's eating this and I have to— I was like, first of all, no one else is enjoying the party that's going on in your mouth. It's okay if, you know, they shouldn't have any input of what goes in your mouth. And number 2, I was like, you don't have to eat. They're like, Really? I was like, yeah. And they're like, it's like, it's okay. It's like you have to be given, you know, permission. I was like, and you can blame it on me. Tell them your crazy doctor has you on this crazy diet. And I'm happy with that. And if they want to call me, go for it.

One of the things I really enjoyed about your book, and I talk about this a lot, you say why willpower rarely works. And that's why these people that, you know, I've worked with that refuse to clean up their environment, They're not usually very successful. You know, they go around, well, I'll just pretend it's not my food, or I'll go around saying it's not my food. But, you know, I guess what I'm saying, Dr. Marbas, is I've always believed that if the environment was right, willpower is of no need. And if the environment is wrong, willpower is of no use.

Definitely. You can't say it better than what you just said. So first of all, willpower, there's even some evidence it may not even exist. Right. So we are nudged into different things. We— there's a lot of behavior theory, behavior economics. It's all so fascinating. But exactly right. I do tell my patients 2 things. Motivation is a finicky friend. You can call it a finicky lover. It comes and goes at its will. Right. So you can't rely on your motivation. It's gone by 8:00 AM. You use up your full tank of it. And 2, there's one hard and fast rule I tell patients. Before we even get started down this, if they're new to this diet, is home has to be your safe space. You cannot live in a space that's constantly triggering you to do things that you don't want to do. That's absolutely insane. I mean, it doesn't make any sense why you would put yourself in this position. Would you put your child in a dangerous situation? No, you wouldn't. You would make the— you'd make it impossible to make a bad decision in your house, right? You make Make the hard decision or the, you know, make the thing you want to do easy, right? And then make the thing you don't want to do, make it hard to do. That's just behavior theory and how you build your environment to, to make the right decision. So absolutely.

Make the healthy choice the easy choice.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Gina says your podcasts are great. Absolutely. And because what, what the pleasure trap has done is made the unhealthy choice The easy choice.

Right, exactly. And our environment outside of the 4 walls that we control, it is, it's constant. And, you know, I have patients who literally change the way they drive to work because they can't drive past the Wendy's or the McDonald's. It's a recurring theme. And, you know, I, for me as a physician, a lifestyle medicine physician, the goal here is to help patients overcome these problems. But I really don't think it's a matter of the education and the science is there. People understand it. Once you explain it, they get it. But it's the implementation. It's the behavior. It's the how do I do this on a day-to-day basis? That is the struggle and where we're seeing that obstacle of adoption, adopting these amazing behaviors and seeing the results that they really want. And they just give up after a while. People just like— They resign themselves to failure when they just got to fight the hard fight and just understand that you're going to have to, you know, change course and be flexible. It's, it's not an overnight thing. It's going to take some time. And it's OK if you, quote unquote, fall off the wagon, but you jump right back on. There's no judgment. Again, nobody's judging you if you go eat something that you have decided was not healthy. You just the next day, you start right back on it. We've all done these things.

Yeah, that's the thing. You know, I hear about that a lot that, like, you know, most people are not perfect. And I have this private group called Feel Fabulous Over 40. And once a month I interview a member spotlight. And most of them don't say, well, you know what? I found this way of eating and I was 100% perfect and now look at me. They have ups and downs. But what I've noticed about the people that were successful is that when they have a slip, which, by the way, I call a snack-cident, they just— the next meal, they don't wait till the next day. They just like, oh, well, you know, they get right back on. And I never— maybe because you've done a lot of the You know, the Judd Brewer stuff and DJ Fogg stuff. Why is it that some people get right back on and some people like just keep continuing to do that? Because Jean-Pierre, we're both friends with, talks about like, that would be analogy would be like, you got a flat tire, you don't go slash the other 3. Or if you break your grandmother's teacup, you don't break all the cups. Right?

Right.

Because I wonder if for some people, it's just that they're more sensitive to the addictive property of the food. And it's like, they, it's harder for them to claw their way out.

I think there's probably several, several elements in that, right? I think there is the physiologic addiction that is way underrecognized in medical practice. That's number one. But number two, I think there's also a self-belief, right? So maybe they haven't changed their identity to believe that they are the person that's healthier, right? Maybe they've, they still believe what they've been told, that they're always going to be chronically ill, they're always going to be overweight, they're always going to be the person who fails at this because that's all they've ever experienced. And sometimes patients really, you know, I consider this a relationship, right? This is relationship with food. So it's the same idea if someone is returning to a very dysfunctional familial relationship, right? A partner who's abusive to you. You see people return to the abuse because that's what they're familiar with. They're afraid of something new, even if it means good. We're irrational beings. We have emotions. We have irrational thoughts. We don't think about things in the long term. We think about the instant gratification right now. And so I feel like there's a lot of stuff that needs to be uncovered. But the thing is, we have to speak it to the patient, right? A lot of times we as physicians or those who are trying to intervene and help someone, we fail to recognize this. No one's ever actually spoken to them saying, why are you doing this behavior? Let's get down. Let's keep asking why until we get to the root of the problem so we can actually solve it. You know, and because there's just so much of the mental— if it was just a matter of looking at the facts, an apple's healthier than a cookie. We would— if we were rational beings, we'd choose the apple every time. But we're not. Just like you said, why is there some who do that? But I feel like there's a self-identity issue going on and the self-talk inside the brain is very detrimental and we have to change that talk. And some, especially women, really struggle with it and understanding that they have the right to love themselves so they can love others. I mean, my goodness, how can you— do you expect someone who doesn't love and care for themselves to love and care for others at the best of their ability? I don't think so.

Yep. Gina says, Dr. Marbas truly understands this. She has it nailed. She does. So you gotta get the bundle just to get that book, cuz she talks about the habit loop and how to dismantle it. You know what I was thinking, Dr. Marbas, is, you know, even people that clean up their environment, which I think is really crucial to success. Dr. Lisle, who we've both interviewed, has always said we must work harder on our environment than we do ourselves. That, you know what else is really toxic is the social environment.

Oh my gosh. Yes. The social component of this is really, really a struggle. And that's where we have to disengage and understand that we are living this life. We are born into this life alone. We're going to leave this world alone. Right. And so at the, at the crux of it, we have to make the best decisions for ourselves because that's going to allow us to make better decisions for the ones we care about. Right. So I don't care if you're— if it's your spouse or your children or your grandmother or your mother-in-law who's putting you pressure to eat differently. They don't care. Honestly, I don't really think they care what you're eating, but there's something that you're doing that's making them uncomfortable and it's reflecting upon their own self-worth, their own thoughts, their own thinking about what they're doing. Because remember, we don't like change. So neither do your loved ones. If they see you moving into a direction that they're uncomfortable with or unfamiliar with, they have their own eating addictions, their own issues. Don't be surprised that people are going to make rude comments or they're going to do things to try to derail you. This is very common. You know, they, they, they— I'm sure they love you, but they're self-sabotagers. They're going to sabotage you. But then there's others, right, that are fully supportive. You turn to those people, you get more of those people. So you're hearing more positive influences. Listen to podcasts, reading books. I have patients who have literally said, if I'm not reading something or listening to something that's putting that positive message into my head every day, I am more likely to fall off. My, my goals, I derail, I go off and binge, and it's really hard to come back because you just see it as another added failure. Oh, I failed again. Well, I guess that's what I am. No, that's not what you are. You're human, and humans fail, and we don't learn— we learn from them, we get back on and we keep going. Because guess what? Now you're the smarter, wiser one because you've been through that experience. So pat yourself on the back for surviving and move on. And those who don't want to support you in that, just understand it's their judgment to themselves. If they say unkind things, you take it with a grain of salt and say, hey, you know, I'm doing what's best for me internally and mentally. I would appreciate you if you would support me. But if you can't, at least keep the comments to yourself, because I'm going to continue down my path of my journey of finding health, because that's what I feel is best for myself right now at this point. And when it comes to your kids and the little ones and their spouses involved and they have to decide, I don't know what parent's going to argue with another parent who's saying, listen, an apple's going to be better than the chicken nugget. This is just basic. This is just basic understanding of what processed food is. And if they really struggle with that, then you need to have some interventions with some counseling, some family counseling.

What I do, because I never understand this, the unsupportive family members, I mean, that are actually mean and sabotaging towards the person, you know, would you do that with somebody with another disability or somebody with a drug or alcohol product? I can't, I problem. I can't tell you how many women I work with whose husbands are just not nice.

Well, you know, and it's really unfortunate, AJ, is that I've really come to understand that the trauma that people have borne when they were young, these adverse childhood events, really have such a dramatic impact on decisions people make as they get older, which is just like this generational trauma, right? So people teach others, right? So I've actually been estranged from my parents and my sister for 6 years. And the reason being because of the unhealthy environment that I was raised in physically, mentally, it didn't matter. I just couldn't continue down that path. And it was hard. But you know what? I've been at the most peace in my entire life and I'm 51 now. So, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, was that an— It was a necessary thing that had to be done. And but, you know, it is some— just because you're married to someone doesn't mean they're, they're kind people. There are— there's just people who are hurting and they lash out at others. But you can't continue down that path. We just can't. That's not how you're going to evolve as a human. That's not how you're going to change your life or change the lives of generations after you. Right. I'm not going to inflict the same things that were inflicted on me and my children. And now I see them flourishing and I'm, I'm happy to take that and And do what I had to do. I have to have the hard conversations. I have to make the hard decisions, meaning clean out the house, have the hard decisions with the family members. You just— you got— we got to own it, that it's hard work, but we have to take control. We have to be the CEOs of our own health, and everything that goes in our mouth is the first step.

Yeah, I love that. Be the CEO of your own health. I just saw a very nice comment here. Where did it go? Jesse says, all these bundle contributor guests are great and of course point out how great and valuable the bundle is. And I even created a playlist. I thank you for the suggestion on the last show. Every bundle contributor has got their own playlist now. So that's amazing. Well, the explanation of what the bundle is has been said every single day on the show, Penny. It is 111 products, courses, ebooks, over 1,000 recipes for 90 contributors, plant-based doctors, chefs, influencers, and athletes. And if you just click the link, even if you don't buy, just click the link and you'll see what a great value it is, including a $10 coupon to Plant Strong Foods. Leah made a fun comment. They could lose that extra 200 pounds or more of useless weight by kicking that man of the curve. I cannot tell you how many women I've worked with that once they got rid of their husband, the weight just miraculously came off.

I'm not promoting divorce, but there are places that that is absolutely necessary, 100%. And I've just been very fortunate. My husband actually lost 70 pounds when we went plant-based, so he actually benefited. So,

yeah, well, yeah, no, your family, that is amazing. Oops, what the heck did I just do? I put a funny— yikes, I put something that wasn't supposed to be there in the comments. That's the thing with when I try multitasking when I'm doing the show. Hey, talk about what else you do though, because even if they don't buy the bundle, there's something else they can get from you, which is great medical care in every single state of the United States.

Yes. So Anthony Masiello is my business partner and I— we launched Plant Based Telehealth 2 years ago and we have doctors in all 50 states, and we are up to 9. We're adding 4 more in the next few months. We are— it's quite amazing. We have thousands and thousands of patients at this point, which is— it just means that we're right and there's more and more that we're seeing every day. So if you're looking for someone who understands plant-based medicine, it's plantbasedtelehealth.com. But we also talk about all the things we discussed here, right? It's the behavior changes, it's the sleep, it's the exercise, it's, you know, the community building, getting the labs, the meds, the deprescribing of things, and that someone who understands your main goal is they get healthy, right? Your, your objective is to use these lifestyle interventions outside of medications, which again, sometimes are needed. And that's, that's what we're physicians. We understand there's a balance here. Um, but many times you can reverse the process. You can de-escalate the severity of a chronic disease so you don't need as much medications. And it's just an amazing thing to have people come to us who are ready to walk down that path. And but the nice thing is we're here when things deviate. We help get you back on the right path and we can tweak even those who've been on a healthy plant-based diet and make sure that everything looks good in your labs. And we can discuss all those things. And we certainly have plenty of those as well.

Right. Have you had a chance to look at the bundle? One of your plant-based telehealth doctors also has a product in it, Dr. Nikki Davis, weight loss webinar that looks great.

Yes, absolutely. I can't wait to dive into all these recipes. Oh,

there's some really, really good ones. We've been featuring some chefs on the show making them and really, really good stuff. Really, there's snack books and salad dressing books. Oh my God. You know, even if you're not a raw foodist, we have a lot of raw food chefs. And I gotta tell you, Please check out 2 books, Dr. Marbas. One is, it's an ice cream book, All Made from Fruit by Nate, Nate Maris, and then his wife, Lissa Maris from Raw Food Romance has her burger book and that will blow your mind.

Oh my goodness. I see I'm already hungry. Yeah, this is, this is where I'm going to be going after this call. We're going to be definitely diving into it. Yeah, no, I'm always looking for inventive ways to, you know, tickle the taste buds of those who are eating the food, because the more I can do that, honestly, guys, that really is how I've convinced some people like, wow, this actually tastes good. I'm like, yeah. So come join, you can taste good and feel good. What a combo. Hmm.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I'm so honored that you and some of your coworkers from Plant Based Telehealth participated, and it really made the bundle very special and Something we can all be proud of.

Well, thank you. And you've been such a supporter of me and us for so long, and you're definitely dear to my heart. And thank you so, so, so very much.

We could have another week. I always tell people, go to you, leave me alone. I don't say that, but I'm not a doctor. I can't help them with all the nuances. I just tell everybody, eat plants.

Well, that's the first step.

Oh yeah. Hey, here's a question. Jade says, can we use Can I use HSA money to pay for telehealth appointments?

Yes, 100%. It's just HSA and FSA. And we can actually also give you what they call a super bill. It's actually a receipt. I don't know why they put bill on it, but it's just basically itemizes your diagnosis. And then we sign it and we put all the things that they need. You can submit that to your insurance company. And sometimes we're actually getting people who are getting completely reimbursed. So even if you don't have HSA or FSA funds, you absolutely could be reimbursed except for Medicare, which is another special entity and a very frustrating experience altogether. But outside of Medicare, yes.

Yeah. So there's a question, can I post the book for the ice cream and the burgers? Yes, I could do that. But the burger book sells for $80 on Amazon because it's all pictures and the ice cream book for $40. So for $49, you get 111 books. But if you really want me to do those links for those individual books, I absolutely can. So yeah, that's, that's what got me into bundles in the first place when I saw her book. And I'm like, oh my God, this is like $80 on Amazon and it's $49 here. But most of the products are worth more than the price of the bundle. So.

Right. Absolutely. I, I'm really quite excited about that now.

Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm curious, um, what you think about Andrew Mellon, cuz he's, he's the only one, he's not, uh, it's about, it's about decluttering. And I find that when you declutter, and even if that means your family, you can have a lot more success with these lifestyle changes when you have a clean environment. And mean just clean of junk food, but organized. I think it's really important.

Yes. Oh, 100%. Honestly, you know, I have— I'm very strict. People are like, wow, you're so like thorough and you're on time. And they always say—

You are always on time and early. I mean, like, oh my God, I gotta tell you, like when we were doing that, you are like always like, maybe it's from being in the military, but you're literally like, when I reach out, you're like the first to respond. I gotta say, I love that about you. You know?

No, thank you. But it's because if I'm not organized, my brain will fall apart.

Well, that's what Dr. Lyle talks about. Like, when you don't make your bed, it causes like— I think he calls cognitive overwhelm. You can't function in an unclean environment.

It's 100%. Like, my— you should see my closet. It's like short sleeve, long sleeve, winter, everything's even.

It's— See, mine is color. I do mine by color and then by short sleeve, long sleeve. But I, I, I like— I see it's so funny, but I have to get it because then I— because I really like when I wake up, I I, well, of course the weather, short sleeve or long sleeve, but I, I kind of like, what color do I feel like wearing today? And then it's just so much easier to find my shirts. You know?

I would say my color palette is a little subdued. That's just my personality. I like painting and colors. You by far are much more colorful and lively and lovely. Um, but for me it's right. You know, this actually started, I think since childhood, but when I went through medical school with 3 little kids and I mean, they were 5, 3, and 10 months when I started medical school. And, uh, I had to be organized. I to. Otherwise, I would have, I would have failed. I would have failed easily.

Can you do telehealth in Kentucky?

Yes, we have doctors in Kentucky, every state and DC. We're even working on American Samoa. We're working on it. God,

you're gonna be, you're gonna be like MasterCard, everywhere you want to be.

Yes. And our docs, we're trying to get as multiple docs. Um, yeah, they're— our doctors are so amazing. Like you said, Dr. Davis or Dr. Clapper, Dr. Miller, Dr. Pierce, Dr. Sawyer. So many incredible physicians.

Yeah, because if we did a whole week of show and everybody was great, I would've gone to any of them. Yeah.

Oh, amazing. I mean, I'm, I'm just so honored that they chose to work with us and it's just so much fun.

Yeah, it's so great. You know, it would be great not only to have one in every state, but one in every specialty, you know, an endocrinologist, a rheumatologist, a, you know, every specialty too, so that we could just—

In every state. Yeah, I agree. You know, that's a— it's— we've definitely had conversations with specialists. The problem is they're a little tad bit more expensive and it's a bit of a struggle. So, what we're working on now is doing group visits with some of our specialists. So, that's kind of the next thing we're thinking about subscription models to make it cheaper and, you know, bringing in these specialists to teach and answer questions. And so, we're working around that, trying to figure out ways to get the specialist without having to pay the price to see the specialist so much. But yeah, we're trying to think outside the box. We really are. I appreciate everyone's patience as we mold this new thing we're building.

Nice. Well, Jean says she's had 2 consults and she loves it. And Jade says she doesn't see you listed for Kentucky.

That's because I am booking out until middle of May. And so whoever is listed in Kentucky, I'm, I'm I try to only accept patients in the states that I'm the only physician in, which that is decreasing as we get more doctors on. And I need to run the business. I will be seeing less and less patients. So I, um, personally don't accept in every state now because I'm literally— I'm, I'm so overwhelmed with, with everything that I have to do. Um, so for me, I feel like it's going to be more important for me to step outside the role of clinician and grow the business and bring more doctors on here, and we'll expand Because there's only one of me, but there's so many other amazing doctors who are in Kentucky. And so please, you know, whoever's listed, I can't— I think it might be Dr. Sawyer and Dr. Miller, if I remember off the top of my head. They're amazing. I personally would go to them. I would trust their care of my family. And trust me, I do not say that lightly with any of these doctors, any of them. 100%.

Susanna says Dr. Clapper worked with her husband in Canada. It was fantastic. And can you see people in Australia?

Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. So we do international visits. If you look under information and click down, it'll say international consultations. And we're happy to go ahead and see anyone. We can't order medications or, you know, do labs, but we can certainly help you with your questions and how to direct you to speak to your own personal physician in your own country. I've had patients in Canada, Mexico, Egypt, Africa, France, Switzerland, Sweden, UK, Ireland. Yeah, just in the last 2 years myself. So yeah.

Great. Well, thank you so much for all you do and also for contributing such a wonderful book about overcoming cravings and eating mindfully for good to the bundle. I hope people will get it because it's fantastic.

Ah, well, thank you, Chef. Again, thank you so much for your support. You— I just adore you.

Oh my God. Well, thanks. That's why I do this, because I love to be adored. But no, really, I feel like I'm Don King. I just want want to get the message out to as many people and promote as many wonderful plant-based people as I can, because I'm not going to be around forever. And even if I am, one day I got to take a day off. And so—

You need a break, my friend.

I know, going to, going to Mexico March 13th.

Yeah. Yes.

It's a work assignment. But still, if it's in Mexico, it's like a lot different than doing that. So absolutely great. All right. Well, thank you so much. And thanks all of you for watching another episode of Chef AJ Live. Come back in about 90 minutes when we have another amazing plant-based doctor, Dr. Brooke Goldner, who is also part