OSU Insider: MASSIVE Interview With LeCharles Bentley, His Impact On OL

Welcome to The Scoop, World Order. We have an incredible show tonight. We have the great LeCharles Bentley, a guy who's maybe, you know, in my opinion, he's the best center in Ohio State history. He was a monster, highest-paid center in the league when he signed his second deal. We're going to get his insight into Ohio State recruiting, his things he would fix, the landscape of college football. LeCharles Bentley is, is the foremost authority on training offensive linemen, building offensive linemen, O-line diet. He is like the Copernicus of offensive line. I love talking to him and learning stuff. So get the super chats fired up. And then that is going to be from 7 to 8, from 8 to 9. We're going to bring in Nevada Buck, talk about the new developing stuff that's going on at Michigan with the notice of allegations. So this is going to be, as always, a huge show because you guys make it one. If you enjoy this content, please leave us a like, click subscribe, also click that little alert bell. Again, this is a huge show because you guys make it one. Another monster show last night, breaking every record in the book, uh, and we're so far ahead now that it's almost, uh, hilarious. But we appreciate you guys for making us the number one Ohio State podcast, and we're competitive with the national shows now, which is, uh, it's just funny how this group, the Scoop family, has grown. Uh, but we appreciate you guys. So without further ado, gotta bring in my man, my brother, LeCharles Bentley, who is, uh, He is that guy. He's the guy that every time I talk to, I learn about 10 things about offensive line play and diet. And he hasn't had a carb since he was 3 years old. So you can see the guns. 5. 5. Yeah, 5. So, 5. But in all seriousness, LeCharles Bentley, how are you doing tonight?

I am good, man. Blessed. No complaints. Life's good.

So you are working with St. Ignatius right now as a line coach. And talk a little bit about— oh yeah, I see it. I see you represent. It's the only reason you're allowed to wear, uh, blue, uh, Maize and Blue on our program, so I'll let that slide. Um, but you know, you also, uh, when, when your, uh, career ended, which was a tragedy with the Browns— you signed the biggest deal ever— um, you got— you became basically— you invented something. Like, you invented a kind of a concierge training offensive line program in Arizona, OLP, something that no one had ever done where you're just like, I am just going to focus on offensive linemen. I'm not going to focus on any other position, how to train them, how to get them in shape, how to diet them. And I remember like when you're first starting off and you're sending me photos of Larry Warford and Bobby Mathis, guys that are like literally retired now, you know, like, hey, this is, this is— I put him on a diet for 30 days and he lost 35 pounds and he doesn't have back flabs anymore and he's not fat and he's all ripped and Like, I mean, like, and then those guys end up getting drafted and they get these huge second contracts. And then I helped you get Pat Elfline and Decker. I gave you their numbers. I was like, you guys, if you guys have brains, you'll go to LeCharles Bentley and do everything he tells you to do. And Taylor's still playing. Pat's still playing. Talk a little bit about what got you into that and what you've learned since you started it to where you are now.

You know, the thing that got me into it was the way that my career ended. I felt that I or to give back to the game, and I needed something to do. I didn't want to go out and just try to seek a coaching job, so to speak, but there were so many things I learned through my experience of going through the rehab and the injuries and the multiple surgeries. You know, you just— there was a tipping point, I guess you can say, in my life where I wanted to give back. I wanted to give something to the game, and I wanted to stay close to the game. I want to stay stay involved with it and understanding that, you know, typically with offensive linemen, it's a very homogenized mindset. You know, we're all kind of generally wired the same way. So I want to spend time around people that I knew more than likely I can get along with, and that's offensive line. And there was nothing ever done when I started my business out in Avon, Ohio, which is right outside of Cleveland. There was nothing ever done like that, you know, even looking back on it now, you know, it probably wasn't the best business model considering that football is seasonal. So when guys are away, you know, well, you don't have revenue coming in. So you're doing this one thing, uh, it can be a bit problematic. But the business has grown significantly. It's now really, it's, it's a sports agency. We represent all the players that are part of what we do. Uh, so managing their careers on a day-to-day basis to perform performance side, the, uh, the, the wellness side, if you want to call it that, the contractual side, being involved in managing and making sure that everything is where it needs to be to make sure that players fulfill that very small amount of time they have to explore how good they can really be in this business. It's rewarding, it's fun, I enjoy it, uh, and there was nothing else that I would rather be doing right now. Maybe something else, maybe, I don't know, I gotta think about that. I'm good where I'm at.

Yeah, I am.

Yeah.

You've blossomed. You also pioneered a lot of new equipment. You've made the best bags, sleds. Like, I mean, my high school coach bought 20 of them and they're the best because you get like, you're, you're a guy that you did stuff and you're like, well, what can we experiment? How can you make this crappy bag better? Well, let's add like this to it. Make it circular. Make it like a sphere. Like you added your sled is like literally for drive blocking and for this positioning, you just kind of tweaked a lot of stuff that existed, but you made it specific, specific really for football, not just O-line, because everybody has to have their hands in and, and you have to know where to strike. And so you kind of like took a lot of stuff and made it like it's like you took a cart, but you put wheels on it and you're like, wow, this is way better than what we used to do. So that's fascinating. So let's talk, let's talk recruiting, because I get asked a lot about Ohio State recruiting and I talk about, well, LeCharles Bentley, anytime I have to ask about a player or what do you look at in a prospect or how would you manage stuff, you know, Ohio State has had a run, a decent run of success in recruiting. They've missed on some 5-star kids. People have worn me out saying, what do you think LeCharles would say? You know, it's like you're like the oracle of, of information for offensive line recruiting. So I'm like, well, let me phone a friend and call LeCharles. And, you know, again, we don't know everything that Ohio State does, so we're not acting like we're some sort of, you know, You know, like, we're not be-all-end-all guys, but, you know, we know some things that we could do. LeCharles Bentley, like, what would you do? Like, if you're recruiting, if you became a line coach, an O-coordinator, head coach, how would you recruit the position? What are the things you'd look for and how would you want to develop your room?

Well, that's a bit of a loaded question because, as you alluded to, we don't— I don't know all of the details of how they actually recruit offensive linemen, but what I would do based on the, the knowledge that I have on the landscape of college football, National Football League, even high school football now, the first step that I would make is approach recruiting with a newfound level of humility. These legacy programs have to understand that your logo doesn't mean what it used to mean anymore. There was a time when Ohio State came to the high school, or Michigan, or Notre Dame, you know, there was chatter amongst the locker room, amongst the student body population in regards to, "Man, did you see Coach so-and-so? Coach so-and-so was here." That's not the same anymore. Part of that has to do with the fact the world is smaller than it's ever been before. So LeCharles Bentley in 1998, 1997, going through my high school career, I would not, and I was not exposed to USC football. I wasn't exposed to LSU football. I wasn't exposed to UCLA or Oregon. Like, I didn't know any of those things really even existed as it relates to football programs. If it got really crazy in the Bentley household, it was like a Florida State game because they maybe would have been in the national championship or something along those lines. But I knew Ohio State, I knew Michigan, I knew Notre Dame, I knew the Cleveland Browns and the Steelers. Like, I knew the legendary and the pedigree of college and the National Football League. I understood that because that's where you grew up at.. But because social media and the way that games are now streamed, the way that these contracts have now evolved, the world has done this in college football. So LeCharles Bentley, now I'm looking at USC saying, that's pretty cool, because I can scroll through my phone and have an intimate relationship with USC football, and I can then begin to realize or potentialize and experience being a USC football player, an Oregon football player, even a UW football player. Like, no one in Cleveland ever thought about going to University of Washington. We just saw the defensive back over at Shaker Heights commit to Oregon. Like, this is a sign that the world is small. The, the, the landscape of the athlete is much more expansive than it's ever been. Thus, the options are much more expansive, which simply means that when you walk into a room and potentially I'm wearing an Ohio State logo or a Notre Dame logo or Penn State logo, I need to approach that relationship as if I'm the underdog now. I have to actually work. I'm working from a deficit because I don't know who that kid is emotionally in relationship with on this thing. And all these peer groups and all the camps that these kids have an opportunity to go to. The world is just so compact now. So with that being said, grace and humility is how you should enter any relationship. And I can flash back to when I was in high school. I remember— and this is part of my reason why I can't stand Michigan outside of it just being Michigan— I remember their uh, offensive coordinator. Won't mention his name. He came down to the school and I was so excited. Like, it's Michigan football, man. Like, you know, I had offers from Nebraska and Ohio State. I'm like, man, this is Michigan football. Like, I was really excited about this. I come down and this dude looked at me, he looked at me from the bottom to the top, said, too short. And he really just swiveled his chair back around and ignored me. And that was it. I felt this big in that room. That's not the humility that I'm talking about. That's not what these coaches have the privilege anymore to do. But I got my get back. Don't get me wrong now, Kurt. I got my get back. I got my get back. And if you want that story, I'll tell it a little bit later, but I did get my get back. But all in all, understanding. You want who you think you are. That's just the reality of it. Even a kid in Cleveland, a kid in Columbus, their world is different now. So you have to approach these relationships— you gotta be the dog now. You gotta go hunt. These kids are not coming to you simply because of the logo that's on your shirt. So that would be the first part that I would certainly have to really respect in a recruiting landscape. And I think the second part would be the, the relationship in the world of NIL. Uh, you have to realize there's a psychology to football, and I believe that— I'm a big believer in that component. Outside of the schematics and the tactical aspect of it, there's a psychology to this game, and there's value in a dog being a little bit hungry. There's value in that. I'm not saying that we need to go back to the days where kids were exploited and taken advantage of. No, no, no, no, no. But what I am saying is this. If I have a 17-year-old young man walking into a meeting with me and he's got a gold chain on, a big diamond chain, platinum chain, and he looks like I can't tell if he's a rapper or a football player, I don't want that kid. I don't want that kid because here's the, the problem when I get into the psychology of football. It's a bit of what I call the Trent Williams effect. And this again goes back to the world being so small now. Growing up, you know, we didn't— we weren't exposed to the lifestyles of some of the top players in the world and top athletes in the world. We weren't exposed to that. But Trent Williams is Trent Williams, first of all. But when you're able to have the access to a guy like that and the way that he presents himself, the lifestyle that he lives, he's a bit of a rock star. That's a personality trait, and that's just who he is. But But he's who he is on the field and off the field. But I think some of these kids get it twisted and they believe that that's a persona that I have to take on if I wanna aspire to be that. That's what it is. That's the life I have to live. That's the image that I have to project. And the problem with that, and these kids don't understand it, once you put that coat on, once you bear that cross, You've lost, generally speaking, you've lost the necessary humility required to grow as an offensive lineman. There's a level of humility that you have to approach your development with, but when you put this persona up that you, as the kids say, you're him, you're one of them ones. That's one of these phrases I've learned. You're one of them ones. You put this persona up. And as a coach, it's very difficult to get into relationship and really get you broken down to the point where you're now curious about your development. You're curious about how far can I really go down this rabbit hole. But in the meanwhile, you've convinced yourself that you're him. You've already arrived. You've made it. And so now it's very difficult As you go through that maturation process as a player, that relationship, that developmental aspect of it, it's very difficult because now we end up in this where you're making this money. Then again, that dog, he's not as hungry anymore. That dog don't want to hunt as hard as he may have wanted to hunt when he didn't have what he currently has. I looked at the, um, Georgia Tech, uh, game against Florida State. And now I don't know all of what Georgia Tech is doing now financially with these guys, but I'm confident that they are not at the Florida State level. Florida State quit. Why did Florida State quit? Florida State quit because at the end of the day, those kids can go back home and be comfortable. And this isn't just a collegiate thing. I remember, you know, I was, uh, my second, first, second year in the league. I won't mention his name again. I don't wanna throw people out there like that. It was a particular, uh, defensive lineman. I was wearing his ass out, wearing him out. About 10 yards down the field, he turned to me and said, I don't care, man. You know why? Cause I'm paid. Blew my mind. He, he threw the Pro Bowl and everything else. He said, I don't care, man. Now you do what you wanna do to me. I'm paid. That's the mentality. We, we play a gladiator sport. I need you to have a little bit of dirt under your fingernails. I gotta have you just a little bit hungry. I gotta need— I need you to be a little bit curious because when it's third, third and 15, when it's fourth and one, I don't want you thinking about your next Instagram post. I don't want you thinking about what you're gonna be doing at the club that night. I don't want you thinking about what bottles you're gonna be popping. I need violence. I need intensity. I need that dog to always stay ready to do what dogs do. And I truly believe that that's a part of the reality of this whole NIL component. And so just understanding as a program, again, if I were in that seat, it's the profile of the athlete that I'm looking for. I'm not chasing everybody that everybody else wants because everybody else wants them for a reason. You can have them. I want those kids that just may or may not have all of the attributes that you're looking for, but they got this and they got this and they want to hunt. And I know you're going to have that sector of fans out there that say, well, you need 5 stars, you need 5 stars. There's a whole lot of dudes in the National Football League that were 3 stars, maybe a 4 star, and there's even more 5-stars that are total busts, and we're gonna continue to see that at a much higher rate, I believe, simply due to the fact that you have to be hungry. You have to be curious as an offensive lineman how deep you can go down that rabbit hole in your development. And if you at any point in time you get comfortable, it ain't for you. And that's, I guess, my spiel on recruiting and how I would approach it. Uh, and I don't know, again, what Ohio State's doing, and it is what it is, but you know, this whole concept of going after these 5-stars and all that type of stuff, man, yeah, you gotta take your shots, but even within that subset of players, there are, there are those guys that, you know, as I say, they've been raised right. There are those guys that they just have that thing that you're looking for, and your job is enter that relationship with humility. I'm going to design for you a model of how I'm gonna get you from point A to point B in your career. I'm gonna sit down with you right now, Jimmy, and tell you exactly why this is happening on film. Here's how we're gonna fix it. In the weight room and skill development and drills. Here's how we're going to build you out to become the player that you can be. Here's the blueprint. Not all the fat, the jazzy, look at the rah-rah, man, bump all that. Here's the work. Here's the work that we're going to have to commit to. Here's the lifestyle that you're going to have to commit to. And if this is not for you, I'll catch you in the portal anyway.

That's so perfect.

I mean, that's, that's the perfect way to say, because I, I think the same thing when I watch these kids, because offensive line, especially as an 18-year-old, is the hardest position when you, when you get to like an Ohio State, you get somewhere and you get dog walked by Will Smith every day like I did. Like, Will Smith was like a dog, you know, he played with him and like, you know, like, I mean, I didn't have like— it's kind of like when you're, when you're doing it and you don't have like this big fat NIL deal, it's like walking a tightrope, but you don't have a net. You know, that, that NIL deal is a big net that you can just fall into and, oh, I don't die. So it's like, I, cause I like, you know, some of these kids, they're not good enough to play as true freshmen at a place like Ohio State, but they've got a 7-figure NIL deal. And it's like, are they really going to put in the work to grind and be what they need to be? Or are they going to be, you know, just pigs? I mean, I'm telling you, it's a different animal than any other position because You're going to— you're not going to play as a freshman. If you play as a freshman, then we're the worst recruiting team in the nation, probably.

Or that's probably not a good thing.

Or you're a Larry Mee Tunsell, like, who's like a guy who could walk in and play as a freshman. So there's not— there's not many Larry Mee Tunsells. But I am, though. I agree, because like you've had like a guy I always think of, like when you're talking about like a perfect example, like Elfline, who you know very well. And Pat is like— Pat was a guy that, I mean, we beat Toledo on him when we offered him. It was like his offer, like Toledo and like Akron, and then we— Ohio State offered him and he committed like within 8 seconds. And like everyone laughed at us about him. And I was like, dude, this kid's going to eat someone's face. He's tough as nails. He'll do anything you tell him to do. You tell him to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge and he'll do it. You know, hey, Todd, I need you to jump off this bridge.

To that point, to that point, a part of the challenge with recruiting is, you know, you try to win 2 seasons. As a coach, and that's really not fair, but that's just the world that you sign up for when you become a college football coach. You got to win the recruiting season, you know, who you got, who you didn't get. Like, you have to win that battle, and then you have to win actually in season as well. So even now, when you start talking about the type of coaches that you hire, you aren't necessarily hiring the best coach. Part of it may be just the better personality, because where do you want to lean as a program? Maybe with a school like Ohio State or Notre Dame or whatever it may be, we may lean more into a personality because the assumption is we're going to get these kids that want to come to— why, it's Notre Dame, it's Ohio State, it's Penn State, like who doesn't want to come here? So you maybe lean more into personality, or you might be a program that Again, going back to that humility aspect, you understand that you're gonna need a guy with some personality, and you're also gonna need someone that can actually develop a football player. Those are two different skill sets. So again, it's a bit of a complex reality, but seemingly, you know, with other programs, uh, they've got it figured out. And I'm not saying that Ohio State has not, uh, got it figured out just yet because I don't know all the stuff that they do. But based on, you know, the things that, you know, you hear fans have to say, there's a struggle. And why that struggle is there, I don't know the totality of it, but I can only speak from my vantage point. You know, you better be able to develop a football player. Your logo, nobody cares. It doesn't mean what it means to me. It doesn't mean what it means to you and all the people listening to this. Doesn't mean the same thing. So if you don't, if you understand that humility, identify and profile the type of players and people that you want, detail to them how you're going to get them to become the best players that they can be, and then keep your eye on the prize, man. The idea is not to get rich in NIL. Your idea is to go into this, go into this business, get into this game and explore just how dominant you can become as a player. Then when the game is done with you, the game is done with you. You go be dominant at something else.

Totally agree. So I talked to a couple of your coaches. I talked to Truss. I talked to Jim Bollman. Jim Bollman was the offensive line coach. He was your offensive line coach and OC your last year in '01, the year you won the Remington, the year you were first All-American. Jim Bollman says— and I had to like this double, but he's like, he's the strongest center who's ever played football. And I was like, at Ohio State? He's like, no, ever. And he was in the league for a long time and coached all over the country. And so that was pretty cool. And then just as like him and Jamar Martin were two of the toughest, baddest dudes that have ever played and we couldn't have beat Michigan in '01, which was kind of like the, the shifting of the tide when you guys went up to Ann Arbor and beat those guys because that was, you know, like J Dub for like you guys ran like 46, you went for like 50 yards. I mean, I've had that feeling before with Beanie where it was like they get through the line and there's like 60 yards of just the back of their jersey and you're like, oh, thank God, you know. Um, but what, what does that mean to you for a guy like Jim Bowman who coached for a long time, is retired now, but for him to say he's probably the strongest center who's ever played, like, is that something that you agree with? Is it something you take lightly? Because I mean, you're like, uh, you're like the center historian. You go Dwight Stevenson, Dermonie Dawson, like Kevin Moai, like you know, the litany of them, but like, I don't know how many of them can out-strength you, but I could be wrong and you know a lot more than I do. But, uh, I, I frankly agree with it because I can think of 100 centers that are probably in the top 100 list and I don't know how many of them are stronger than you are. But, um, what are your thoughts on that?

I will neither, I would neither confirm nor deny.

Well, I mean, like, when you're, when you're at your peak, man, if you had to go in a weight room against those guys, I don't, I don't know how many of those guys were touching because I lifted with some Hall of Fame centers and they're not in that universe. But again, you know, just me.

I think, I think the thing about the former me is, is the fact that, you know, I never believed in— and I think part of this came from the fact I didn't grow up in football. You know, I started playing football my freshman year of high school and I was very naive to the game. You know, I remember my freshman year, uh, I tried to play linebacker again. You know, I was watching the Steelers. Oh, Greg Lloyd, I want to be like Greg Lloyd. That's, that's the thing to do. Uh, so I spent one day at linebacker, and I remember the next day I came back after I tried to quit like 3 times. I remember the coach says, hey, why don't you just go down there with the guys that have the 6s, the 7s on them, on the jerseys? And in my mind, I'm like, man, I got a promotion, and these guys got big numbers. Like, you I'm doing something big now. So I was like all proud of myself. That's just how I was in the game. But what happened with myself, I didn't ever fall in line with, you know, I'll be very candid with you. I didn't allow myself to get brainwashed in this culture of football and the bullshit that oftentimes coaches espouse. My thing was this, have you done it? And that was just my approach and it, it, maybe it was wrong, maybe it wasn't, but it worked for me. Some things as it relates to the game, you know, when you're young and you're in the game and you got, you know, a lot of older people around kind of pouring things into you, you're in a very formative stage of your life. You know, I kind of skipped that phase. By the By the time I got to high school, you know, I was who I was going to become as a man. I felt very comfortable in my skin and where I was at in my life. And, uh, with that being said, you know, the one thing that I never allowed anyone to do is convince me that what God had in me and what I was good at, that wasn't good enough. Wasn't going to do that. So what I believed is I would always work twice as hard on the things I was really good at. So, I oftentimes saw these players that, and this is all through high school, all through college, all through the pros, they invested so much time in, well, I'm not good at this, I'm not good at this, I gotta get better at this, I gotta get better at this. And my mindset was always, well, you know what? I'm gonna take what I'm good at and I'm gonna make it so big that I'm gonna fill that room up with all the things that I have going for me that it's gonna make all the other things that less significant. And it worked for me. So as it relates to my strength, I stood on that. You were not gonna be stronger than me. You just were not because I knew one thing about myself. You were not gonna outwork me. I love the weight room. I love the process. I love that feeling. I love being in there. So that was my safe space, not the football field. I wanted to be in the weight room because I understood this: if I get really good at this, that out there is going to get a whole lot easier. Remember, I'm green to the game. I'm not sitting there trying to figure out these plays and this and that. I'm like, look, I'll get that. I want to be able to— when I get on that I want to feel confident that when I put my hands on you, something's going to happen. And more than likely, it's going to be something bad to you and not me. Now, early on in my career, it may not have always been the right guy, but that's okay. But I was fortunate to have a coaching staff at St. Ignatius that they allowed me to grow into the game. So I just kept saying, LeCharles, the thing The things that I need to get better at, those things have come to me as I just keep, keep staying confident in where I'm confident. You weren't going to outwork me. You weren't going to be stronger than me. Your will, you were never going to break me. Now you might have been more in shape than me. You might have been able to run the conditioning test better than me. You might have been able to run longer than me. You might have had a faster mile than me, but in my mind again, it's like, I don't need that because I'm going to break you by the second quarter anyway. So I'm not even gonna have to exert myself to the level that everybody else is because by the halftime, you're done anyway. And that's really kinda how things laid itself out for me. And this may or may not be a recipe for everyone to adopt, but it's allowed me to stay very confident in my skin. Are there things that I'm not good at? Yes. But I'm at a stage in my life, I hire those people now. It works out. I'm not gonna waste my time trying to get good at something that, you know what, I'll just get better at this and then I can hire you to do it. But as a player, I'll just get stronger in these areas. I knew that I could learn. It got to the point where I was sitting in meetings with our quarterback in New Orleans, Mike McCarthy, who's now the head coach in Dallas. And now I'm seeing the game, part of Jim Bowman as well. Uh, when Jim Bowman came into Ohio State, he got me to the point where I was ready to be a pro. That's why that year was so, so dynamic for me, because now I'm sitting down with Jim. He's had so much experience at the next level, being in the National Football League. We aren't talking about the weight room, we aren't talking about being in shape, we aren't talking about the will to win, we aren't talking about the desire. We aren't talking about resiliency and toughness. All those boxes were checked. Jim, help me read this defense. How do I see the bigger picture? Because that nose guard, that 3 technique, I'm going to murder him, but I want to be more efficient at it. So when I look out there and I see that safety on that hash and I see him backing up that corner, oh, he's going inside. Because I can see the game now. And that's when my career and my game really started to go to a different level, uh, as a player. But I'm a firm believer in stay confident in who you are, work, work inside of your strengths, and get your weaknesses so minuscule, so irrelevant, because you've gotten so strong in these other areas that, you know what, certain things they just can't take from you. And nobody was going to take, uh, my confidence from me. No one's going to take my will to win. No one's going to take my will, uh, to succeed. Because in the back of my mind, if you break that, you break me. And you weren't gonna break me.

So I think that, like, the weight room is where these guys need to live at, you know. I mean, these guys, these, these— and I tell the guys when I was at Ohio State, I was coaching these, I'm like, look, Don't be allergic to that iron. Now you could lift every single body part without a spotter in the Wood Hayes. They've got every machine known to man and they've got dumbbells so you can do bench and not kill yourself, not decapitate yourself. So it's like I told those guys, I'm like, look, everything in football when you're a lineman is easier when you're stronger. There isn't a single thing where you're like, oh my, oh my God, like I wish I wasn't so strong and I wasn't throwing this guy out of the club, you know, on a double team or on a stretch block or whatever. And it's like, Like, and especially like, you know, we had some guys that like didn't like to squat and I'm like, you guys are crazy. I mean, squatting—

if you can't squat, if you can't squat, you can't play football.

You might as well leave. Go home.

If you can't squat, you can't play football. I'm not a believer in powerlifting because I always say to guys that, you know, there's a lot of really strong dudes out here that couldn't play Western movie, but there's a distinction between being strong and being functionally strong. And in my opinion, I believe that comes from the neck up. It's your approach to everything that you do. And this kind of goes back to what I was alluding to in player development with offensive linemen. You know, you got a lot of guys that can lift a lot of weight. Yeah, more power to you. And there are— there certainly were guys that were stronger than me in certain things in the weight room, but the expression of that strength. How does that then look? So even with young athletes and some of the young guys we work with and whatnot coming into the National Football League, it starts with everything that you do. So even when you pick up a dumbbell, I don't want you casually walking over, picking up a dumbbell and just kind of flailing back trying to get yourself situated. No, this is a rep. This is a rep in the game. This is 4th and 1. You pick it up with intent, you set yourself down with intent, you drive it up and you get ready to go, you start building a level of focus and intentionality in everything that you do. And to me, that's the chasm that most players can't cross because you're so busy just trying to get to the workout, or if you're just genetically gifted, you're just lifting a lot of weight and there's no masterful approach to understanding why am I doing this, why am I bench pressing, why am I squatting. I'm squatting because when it's fourth and one, when it's third and three and I gotta sit on that bulrush, that's what I'm visualizing every single rep, every single time I go into the weight room. That's what I'm seeing. Even to this day when I work out, I don't have to sit on nobody's bulrush, but I don't know, somebody may wanna try to beat me up one day. I don't know.

I don't know.

It's a crazy world out here, man. But I tell you what, if, if you jump on me, I prepared in my mind how I'm going to engage back in that. And I just think that there's a level of intentionality, not just from a physical aspect, But in everything that you do, you know, we're so disengaged as a society, we're so disengaged just as people now, you know, I just, I firmly believe that there's value in being intentional in everything that you do. You know, by the time that you get done with the workout, I was never really physically exhausted, but I was mentally drain. And that's why, as I got later in my career, you know, to be frank with you, I was tired, man. I was tired waking up every day pissed off at the world because I had to always conjure something up in my mind to just keep me moving in the direction that I wanted to move in with intent. And it's exhausting, but it's always worth it in the end in anything that you do in life.

Yeah, I— one of my things that I I kind of made up that I've been saying a lot recently that I love is like, for some people it's a chore, for other people it's a war. You know, it's like for some people going to that, going in that weight room is like, oh God. And then for other people it's like, you know, it's like, okay, if someone, you know, you close your eyes and you're pressing your, you know, 200-pound dumbbells, it's like, this is me pushing somebody off me. Like if something, I get jumped or someone acts crazy or whatever, or protected my family or whatever. That's— I, I always had those images in my head where it was like, you know, this is where, you know, like, you don't, you don't want to be violent, but sometimes you have to be violent. And it's like, it's better to be, you know, a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war, you know? So it's like, you gotta, you gotta be like, you gotta be like, you gotta stay ready. And again, like, I, again, I think that intent is the most important part of life. Like, if you don't live with intent and do things with intent and do everything with intent, then eventually you're just, you're just, you know, you're just pablum, you're just milquetoast, you're just whatever, you know? And I think that that's so important. What do you look for in an offensive line prospect? Because again, I like violence, I like tough, I like— like I said, if a kid isn't blue collar, then I just, I don't know if he fits the type of room. And again, I, you know, I know you very well. I played with Olin Krootz, like, you know, Dominic Rayola. Joe Staley, guys that are Hall of Fame level type guys. You'd be a Hall of Famer, obviously. And it's just like, I think that those are the kind of guys that— those are the kind of— John St. Clair, guys that were just tough as nails. John Jansen was a Michigan guy.

Jake Long.

Those guys were tough as nails, blue collar. And that's just how they were. They chewed tobacco and they're in their flip-flops and ready for war every day. So But again, like, those are my kind of guys. Like, you know, like John Sinclair is one of my favorite human beings ever because he was so good to me when I was a rookie in Chicago. And like, that dude, like, he could have been nicer to me, could have been better for me, could have been more helpful. But talk a little about like, what is— what do you look for if you're, if you're running the show and you're building your recruiting board, you're studying film? What are some traits you like to see in tape? What do you like to see in person? What do you like to hear when you hear the kids speak to you?

That's a great Great question. Let me work my way backwards. So if I'm evaluating a college prospect, you know, I don't really care, you know, what the quote-unquote expert has to say about you, you know, if he's a first-round pick, second-round pick. It doesn't really matter with me. Here's the one thing, here's where I always start. I find the first clip of something going wrong, be it a sack, you know, you come off, you drive off on a base block, that guy goes inside, he beats you inside, makes a big play. I need to find you in a situation where something didn't go right and I immediately go to the second play. What did you do? How did you respond to that? When I see an offensive tackle give a sack, and the next play he comes back and now he's setting soft. Now he's beginning to backpedal. Now he's kind of looking to see if his guard's going to come give him a chip or if the back's going to kind of give him a little bit of love on the way out. That to me, it goes back to that mindset. You can be broken. You can be broken and I don't care if you're 6'9" 390 pounds and run a 4.3. I don't care because when I need you and the team needs you and the game needs you to show up, you're going to be the one looking for help. But on the flip side, i.e., a guy like a Pat Elfline, can't recall because it's years ago now, but the thing that got me excited about Pat was the fact that he got beat for a sack, it was like a push-pull type deal, which is common. The next play, this dude comes off the ball and murders this guy, murders the shade, climbs up to the backer, lifts the backer out of his shoes, and I said, that's what I'm talking about right there. That's how you expect the mentality of a player to really reveal itself on film. I think oftentimes people come into the film looking for physical traits first. I want to see more of who you are as a person, and then as I move to the physical traits, the next important thing is power. Power. And I'm not talking weight room strength, and I don't— because you don't see squats on the field. But I want to see if you can move out of your stance. Can you come out of your stance and be dynamic? Can you deliver a strike? Not even from a technically sound standpoint, but when I watch you and you get pads on pads, is that defender's head jerking back? Can you make somebody's eyes blink? In pass rush, when you throw that right hand out, is that shoulder dropping? Is that defender's neck kind of giving a little bit of that whiplash effect? I have to see power, but if I can see some attitude and if I can see power, those are the two cornerstone traits that I can work with in terms of building a player because as I move into body composition, I can fix body composition, fix that to a degree. You know, again, we get overly caught up in mobility. Is he flexible? Can he bend? Can he bend? And you gotta be mindful with that because some stiffness is actually good. You want players to have a level of rigidity. So when I come off the ball and I, mm, and that defender drives into me, I have to get stiff. My body's gotta tense up so now I can kind of refit myself and now start taking that power through that defender. But when some players are overly mobile, there's a lag between contact and stiffness. Like, I always chuckle when I see at the combine or wherever they do that sit and reach test. They want to see guys, you know, from, from the lumbar spine, how much mobility and flexibility they have. That's nonsense. I don't want that. I don't want a ballerina. I don't want flexibility. I need mobility and rigidity, because with those two things, that's where your power comes from. That's how you transfer power. If you think about it from a, a layman's or practical standpoint, you go from fluid to, to an expression of power, to stiff. You look at the Olympics, Olympic-style weightlifting, look at those little you know, 5'5", 5'3" dudes that's, you know, 160 pounds lifting and throwing 500 pounds over the head, right? But as they— as they're driving off the ground, they're lifting that bar up. There's fluidity there, there's stiffness there, but it's fluid motion. And then boom, those hips come through, they catch underneath it, they got to get stiff, and now they can use their strength to drive out of that hole. That's a run block. That's the exact, exact same dynamic inside of a run block or a pass pro signal, a bull rush. It's the exact same dynamic. I need you stiff and rigid in that stance. Out of that stance, said hut, I gotta see fluidity, I gotta see power, I gotta see flow. At contact, I gotta see the ability to contract and brace. All of those things, uh, oftentimes you try to see them in the weight room. But I need to see that stuff on film. And that's, in my humble opinion again, that's the aspect of the game that, that when you're looking at high school players— I'm coming down to the high school level, you know, and this is where again it can go left on you. I got this 6'7" or 6'6", 300-pound left tackle that is 17 years old and he is a genetic lottery winner. He's playing against a sophomore that's 15 years old and exactly not on the winning side of the genetic lottery. And he's throwing that kid all over the place. And you look at it and say, man, so big, so strong, so this, he's so aggressive. Yeah, but what happens when you get two lions in the cage? What happens if you got two dogs in a cage? As you kind of move up towards the tip of that spear and everything now becomes a little bit more equal, it goes back to that mental aspect, that intentionality aspect of it, and also that curiosity aspect of it. That's where you have to start getting guys to cross over to that chasm to get to that other side in their development. And so all in all, man, uh, I need to see power, I need to see stiffness, I need to see how you respond. Like if I were recruiting a quarterback or evaluating a quarterback, I want to see you throw 3 interceptions. I need to see you in the game. I need to see you throw 3 picks. I just saw Trey Lance. He just threw 5 picks in a preseason game. Dallas said, you know what, we're good. Yeah. You know why they know why they're good? Because they know what he's doing in practice. They know how that kid's going to respond. They understand the resiliency that he has. That's what you want. I don't want the kid that's perfect. I want that player that's going to have those mistakes and those flaws, and they have the resiliency and the mindset and the intentionality to dig themselves out of it. Because all the other things— mobility, body composition, skill acquisition— those 3 things I can build, I can develop that. But your strength and your desire, man, strength takes the longest time to build. Right? So that's 3 years of your college career trying to get strong enough. If I don't see that on film, I ain't got much for you. And then if I don't see that level of desire, if I don't have those 2 cornerstones, there's nothing to work with. But everything else in the middle, you can be a little sloppy. Okay, I get it. You know, baby fat. I've had it at one point in time. Sometimes I still have it. Whatever. It ain't baby fat, it's big boy fat now. But the, uh, Yeah, what I'm trying to make, what I'm trying to make is, uh, it's just simply there's components you can fix. Body comp, mobility, skill. I can teach that stuff. I can develop that stuff. But your desire, what's in you, and that strength aspect of it, man, that I can't give you that, big dog.

I got you. All right. We're getting to 2024 Ohio State. You've seen their line. You've watched them, I'm sure, last year going into this year. What's your evaluation? And the second part is, how important is scheme? Because Chip Kelly's scheme's coming in. It's going to be a little bit more wide open. You know, there's sometimes I feel like people don't realize that the O-line's in a loser play that has no chance because of whatever aspect, because it's a loaded box, whatever. There's not a really good option to take care of an extra guy. How much does scheme affect the performance of an offensive line? Again, you played for Jim Bowman. His favorite play was power, which we ran 40 times a game. So, you know, there's sometimes where eventually they're going to figure out that it's coming and they're going to load up and, you know, you might block it great, but there's an extra hat or two in the box.

Yeah.

Talk a little bit about this year's line and the impact of scheme on the play of an offensive line.

Scheme is, is extremely important. Particularly in the fact that when you may or may not have really good players, I can put the players in positions where— and it sounds very weird to even say this— but you could, you can put players in positions where they don't have to block as much as if you are now primarily, say for example, a gap scheme. You got to move people. But if I'm going to spread teams out, all I'm trying to do now is create mismatches, create illusions, and then hopefully have a seam, thus an opportunity. But I don't need offensive linemen to be very effective at their jobs relative to blocking one-on-one and doing the things that traditionally offensive linemen are tasked to do. But the other part about scheme that is really interesting to me is how you pair your offense with the run and the pass. Nuance of formations and being able to run a pass play out of the exact same formation that you're going to run, for example, another run play out of. That makes a lot of— makes it very difficult on the defense to be able to key on when it's a run, when it's a pass. So that being said, then you start to move— you start talking about moving in certain motions and things of that nature that gives you opportunities to kind of get one backer stacked over from where he is to another position. That then gives you more leverage in a run game or more leverage in a pass game. Like, there's things that you can do offensively when you may not have a lot of talent to scheme around some weaknesses that you have. But all in all, if a school like Ohio— when you're a school like Ohio State and you have horses, you know, in the run, your backs, you got some horses. Whether or not, you know, the offensive line is where we want them to be, that doesn't matter. They're still talented, physical, smart football players. And now you kind of put this umbrella of a dynamic scheme on top of that, and you got some wideouts, you got an opportunity to create a really dynamic offense. Now, I'm not sure exactly who the tight end is, but if you add a tight end into that mix Now you're talking about taking levels into every single game. Now we're talking about a run game. Now we're talking intermediate pass. Now we're talking about being able to take the top and stretch the defense. Now we're talking about running backs that we're not bringing in 1, 2, 3 backs. They can all do the same things, or at least very similar. There's no drop-off. Now you're putting pressure on the defense.

All right, I got a Super Chat for LeCharles Bentley. This is This is funny. And NBA was better in the '80s and '90s. Uh, thanks for the deuce. Says, I want LeCharles developing our offensive line. F-U-M and then O-H. I'll give you the I-O. Uh, you have any interest in getting into coaching, into developing Ohio State's players? Is there any— you know, again, I know that they have infinite coaches now, so it's a whole different ball of wax. I've been asked a thousand times, so I might as well ask you since I got you here. Like, what do— what does the future of LeCharles Bentley look like, um, and again, if you don't know, then you don't know, but it's like, you know, you've done a lot of things in your life, like probably more than any former player I've ever met because you've got your training agency, you do training with teams now. Um, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, uh, I've said this and because I'm at that stage in my life where I'm getting anxious again. I call it the fourth quarter. Am I like dying? No, I'm not dying. I'm not that old. But I'm like in this season. I'm in a season of life where I am asking like, what do I want to do? I've kind of gone through these chapters and The chapters have been very good to me. Some of them have really brought out the best and even at times the worst in me as a person, but it's allowed me to grow and evolve. And I've been very fortunate and blessed to, at this stage of my life, to be able to wake up every morning and put my feet on the ground and do what I want. To do. And I love the business that I've created. It's beyond rewarding serving athletes, you know, being over at Ignatius, coaching those young men over there. Now they get on my nerves sometimes, but those are my babies. You know, those, those, I love those kids. Uh, I came in with the freshman staff, with the freshmen, and they already had an offensive line coach. And so I said, I'll work with the freshmen because at that point I could be non-committal. But I end up falling in love with the kids. Plus, it's Ignatius. I love St. Ignatius High School. Matter of fact, I love St. Ignatius more than Ohio State. That's close. That's a close one. But having that opportunity to be with the freshmen and kind of then graduating with them to their sophomore year and now in their junior year. You know, seeing their development and their maturity as young men, it's so freaking rewarding. I am in love with that aspect of it. But what's next? You know, there's been talk of, do I want to be a general manager at one point in my life and getting myself on track to do that? I'm not sure if I'm ready to tell people they're not good enough and start cutting guys and things of that nature and do what GMs have to do. I'm not sure that's what I want to do, but I would at some point consider coaching at the next level because it's such a unique model now. And I do believe that, you know, recruiting is an interesting world to me because to me it's like business. It's relationships.. And that's something that I enjoy, being in relationship with people and seeing things come to fruition and building something. And then player development, you know, I don't want to— I'm not going to toot my own horn, but I'm going to say I'm very confident in that area. I'm beyond confident in my capacity to get the most out of an athlete. I'm giving you the long-winded version. There's two places that I would ever really truly consider coaching and being involved heavily with the program. Uh, it's St. Ignatius High School, and I'm doing that, and it's Ohio State. Uh, now I have a relationship with ASU, and there are other schools that I'm working on, and they're talking to me, and they want relationships that I have with ASU. Ohio State's my home and St. Ignatius is my home. And if there's ever an opportunity to explore that further, most certainly. But I'm not asking and I'm not begging nobody for nothing. If it— hell, if it's Penn State and they call— well, no, it ain't Penn State because I'm not going to Happy Valley. That is not happening.

I'm sorry.

That is not happening. Oh, but you know, but considering my life is at, you know, it would have to be something that makes sense to me. Um, but I'm curious as to what my model could create inside of a program. I know what I can do at the next level. I know I can take a guy like a Taylor Decker and help him make $140 million in his career. I know what I can pull out of a person, uh, and I know what I can put into people. I understand my limitations, but when you get the right team around you and you allow that energy to work, you know, man, in this current landscape of college football in the recruiting world, I truly believe that something special could be done. And there's a— there's some interest there, yeah, be it Ohio State or be it at, uh, somewhere that's nice Miami is pretty cool, but I get myself in trouble there. I can't, I can't do that life no more, man. I'm a child of God. I'm a child of God.

Child of Tootsie's. I'm trying to get me out. Child of Tootsie's, baby. Devin, what's up, man? Ohio 7715. Thanks for being an ultra member. LeCharles, this is for a GoFundMe. LeCharles for Ohio State O-line coach. One personally, one personally. One person currently on the staff needs to hear your speech about recruiting. Much respect, man. @BuckeyeLegend2425, natty locked. So there you go. I mean, we probably have to add about, uh, let's see, 20, like 5 zeros to that 20 to get LeCharles Bentley. I know what it is. You get what you pay for in life, especially as a line coach. But, um, yeah, man, this has been a blast. I told you an hour. We've run an hour. So, uh, yeah, I told you, it's like, I mean, it's like 3 questions and it's like done. Blank and it's over. But any, any final stuff? Because again, like, people love you. Like, people have been like asking me, can you get LeCharles Bentley? I'm getting Archie on, I got Chris Carter on, I gotta have Orlando on again. I've had Urban Trussell. It's like people wanted to hear from LeCharles Bentley. They want to hear about O-line. Um, so this is funny. Oh my God, we got another one. Mello, what's up, brother? Both the Buckeye Boys, uh, right now, guys, follow the Buckeye Boys. They've got their own podcast. They're killing it right now. Bella likes the 20. The official hire, LeCharles Bentley, for our line coach for OSU.

Fun.

All right, so we're at 40 now, so we only need like 1.99999960 and we're there, right? I might have too many nines, but I'm just trying. So we're getting closer, but I appreciate you guys. The Buckeye Boys, follow those guys, Devin and Mello. Those guys are awesome. Your High Podcast with Eric Boggs. Appreciate you guys. Um, all right, LeCharles, uh, any final thoughts? Again, I I gotta have you back on because that was the fastest hour of all time.

Yeah, I'd love to come talk more specifics of football. They got a game this weekend. I think it'll be fun to watch a game and kind of just see and give the fans a different perspective of what exactly is happening and why things are happening. But I would just want to dismount with this. You know, the season is kicking off and, you know, I think it's about that time for everyone to kind of put their swords down and focus on the passion and the love that we all have for Ohio State. Uh, specifically with Coach Fry, you know, I know Justin Fry and I don't have a bone to pick with anyone. You know, I think that every man should be able to wake up and explore how good he can be at what he does. Unfortunately, I live in a business, he lives in a business where everything you do is under a microscope, and that's the cross that you bear. But I myself, I am not an advocate of anybody losing their job. I'm not asking for or wanting to see that man not continue to pursue the things he's pursuing, uh, that are inside of his, his goals and whatever God has in store, uh, for him. But if you get caught slipping and there's an opportunity for someone to come in, and I'm not talking about myself. That's the law of the jungle. That's how it goes. When you sit in that seat, there's an expectation, and it's no different than when I put that uniform on. I was not representing myself. I was standing on the shoulders of giants. Justin Frye has a responsibility. Responsibility. And his responsibility is not just to those players, it's to you, it's to me, it's to Chris Carter, it's to Eddie George, it's to all of us. That place will forever be my home, it will forever be your home. And as much as these fans love Ohio State, and I love the fact that we have this fanatical fan base, But I will say this, it's different when you put that shit on, man. It's different. It's special and it means something. And I am effing tired of losing to Michigan. I'm tired of the constant talk about what we aren't. And if that means that somebody gotta go for it to get right, Hey, if I was in that seat and I couldn't get it done, fire me. If I'm in any job that I can't do, any people out here listening, if you can't do your job, you get your ass fired. But he has a responsibility, man, and that responsibility is to uphold the, the legacy that Orlando Pace helped instill. That, that guys like myself and you, Nick Mango, Pat Elfline, Taylor Decker, and you can go back years, we built that shit. We did that. And when these other kids come in, they need to understand that they are standing on your shoulders, my shoulders, and the shoulders that I'm standing on. They have to respect that. And Justin Chris Frye is in that seat right now, and if you don't have the humility and the grace and the respect of what that job entails, maybe that job isn't for you. But I am going to cheer for that man. I want to see him succeed. I want— I would love for him to be the offensive line coach there for the next 10 years until he's able to move on and become a head coach or whatever he wants to be in his career. I want to see that happen. Because if he is, that means we beat Michigan 10 years in a row. We more than likely won a national championship and multiple ones. We've put guys in the league. We've built another echelon of Ohio State great offensive linemen that's going to be a part of our very small and elite fraternity of brothers. And I want my brothers and my young brothers to continue to have the opportunity to explore how good they can be. But no more damn platinum diamond chains though. And that's what I'm—

that might be the best. That might be the best outro I've ever had, man. That's gonna be the start of my next rap album. I'm gonna play that sermon at the beginning of the intro song right there, man. No more platinum or diamond chains. The only chains that LeCharles Bentley has are the ones that are hanging on his bench press.

Hey, man, that's all you need. Let's go.

Oh, brother, that was awesome. Dude, love you to death, man. Like I said, I love hearing from you. Love talking to you. Like I said, every time I talk to you, I learn like 10 things. So it's like, it's awesome. And I will say, as I, as I close this out, you played all 5 positions at Ohio State and you might be the only guy that's ever done that. I don't know anybody that's ever done that. And I might be crazy, but I did. That's, that's nuts.

So it's in tackle too. God, don't, don't, don't shortchange me, Kurt. Don't, don't, don't shortchange me.

Which is amazing because like when people say that you're too short to play somewhere and he's out there playing tackle and I was like, what are you guys looking at? Are you guys crazy? You know, I've never, I've never, I've never stood next to you and been like, he's too short. But that's, that's just me. All right, brother. Well, I appreciate you, my man, and I will get you back on here soon. So I appreciate you, bro.

All right, brother. Take care.

All right, brother.

All right.

Let's transition. LeChuck. You guys ready for some Nevada? Let's get Nevada in here right quick. Nevada, how are you tonight?

Oh, I'm doing great. It's— Ward Manuel stuff was beautiful today. It's so fun. It's so fun watching him backtrack and kind of start waving the white flag and start preparing the fan base for what we've been saying is coming for, for 10 months now. We've been telling you, and I think, you know, the good thing about what's the situation we're in right now, Kirk, is that I think everybody pretty much has been listening to our show, has pretty much got it. You, you pretty much have an idea of what we know now. In what we've seen and why we've been saying what we've been saying for so long. And, um, you can't really draw any other conclusion other than Michigan's in deep, deep trouble right now. And, you know, they got the NOA. The NOA has not leaked. Um, I've been— I feel like I'm fairly close to getting a copy of it, but, um, it hasn't leaked from Stallions. It hasn't leaked from Manuel. It hasn't leaked from Michigan. It hasn't leaked from Harbaugh because they don't want it out there because it's so spectacularly bad for them. And you already see the national media turning on Michigan right now, and that's before the NOA is released. Wait until the NOA is released. Wait until people get a hold of this. It's gonna be Apocalypse Now. And, um, you know, I, I thought, you know, today, um, Ward Manuel, you know, on a local Ann Arbor station, the friendliest place you could possibly be, is basically laying the groundwork for why we had it. Because, because when you do something wrong, you have to accept responsibility when you break through. I mean, he came out and said that today, like it's the opposite. I mean, you would expect if this was the nothing burger that the Michigan people have promised us. Wouldn't he have just came out and said, this is nothing, this is a big, it's a big misunderstanding, they sent us an apology, we found a loophole, this is, you know, he didn't say any of that. He said, when you do something wrong, you have to accept responsibility. When there's rules that we signed up to play for, and yeah, we'll fight if they overreach, But, uh, you got to follow the rules. I mean, have you ever heard a, a, a bigger backtrack? You know what happened to Bett, and Yoko Ono was screaming about how they're going to take him to court and all stuff like that. No more of that now. It's, uh, it's contrition, it's backtracking, and, uh, just, it made it a glorious day to be a Buckeye fan.

Yeah, that's, that was my thing, is all last year it was like, they're like, well, maybe if we scream from the mountaintops that, oh, bet, bet, and we're innocent, and oh, I've never lied, I've never cheated, my dad taught me I never lie, never cheat, never steal. It's like, like, maybe, like I said, the delusion is spectacular at this point. Like, I don't know if I've ever seen anything like it. Like, again, like, you're right, the national media is finally catching up to us after writing these, these moronic things the last few weeks. Like, like Pete Thamel saying, well, doesn't look like much, and draft didn't lie. It's like, well, yeah, well A lot's changed since that Hamburgergate or whatever it is. That thing's done. So now you got repeat offenders and like I've said 10,000 times on the show, we don't know everything that they found. You know, we didn't know that Connor Salins had already interviewed with the NCAA. We know that Connor Salins, he copped to it. Oh yeah, I bought tickets and sometimes they sent me film, but sometimes it wasn't good film. That's like saying, well, I only kind of murdered my wife. I didn't actually kill her. Like, it's like that's Well, that's a huge— I mean, you just admitted to the entire thing that the scheme's about. And so let's go backwards. Let's dig through it. Let's go through these Ticketmaster accounts. Let's go through StubHub. Let's go through— okay, you've got, uh, let's see what the film is. Let's see what the film is. Oh, you've got all these, these iCloud transfers, all these uploads, and oh, and it's literally of the people like doing the signaling. So it's exactly what we thought it was. So I mean, I'd be completely illegal. And so, I mean, this is going to be spectacular. And then people are like, oh well, you know, like, yeah. And I love Yoder, love Yoder. And I talked to Yoder for an hour last night. I thanked him. And we're going to do Yoder and Spiro in Nevada again, uh, probably like every— they're like, let's do it every 2 weeks. That was great because, I mean, I got great feedback on those guys. They're great dudes, differing viewpoints. Obviously we hate Michigan, we hate Michigan State. Oh, I mean, Michigan State is Michigan State. They're not Michigan. But like, we both hate Michigan at least. But, um, those guys will be back. But you know, when, when Yoder was saying a 2-game suspension and a fine, I'm like— and, and I said this to you today when we're on the phone— I'm like, I would run to Indianapolis to sign that deal. I would get in my Lear— I would get my Learjet and I would sprint into the building and say please. And I don't care about the Texas Longhorn game. I would, I would— if they said, hey, you have to forfeit the first 2 games, I'd do it. Done. Like, let's flush this down the toilet, get rid of it. And it's not that though. I mean, this is like, this is like saying, hey, do you want a plea bargain where you have no time in jail or you're facing 60 years in jail? Like, these guys are facing like a massive, massive strike from the NCAA because the NCAA knows that the eyes of the world are on them now. And this is the most severe cheating scandal in the history of college football. You have a— you have this guy who is insane. He is Norman Bates. He is dressed up with the mother with a knife up in his hand. If you guys haven't watched Psycho, it's one of my favorite movies of all time. But this kid's Norman Bates. He's completely out of his mind. And then they put out this idiotic documentary with this idiot attorney, and they've got Connor Sion saying, oh, I'd do it all again.

I don't care.

I'd do the whole thing again. This is great. You know, whatever. Like, look at me. I'm, I'm this, you know, the fig. I'm the I'm the figment of, of Michigan's imaginary championship season. And I'm like, this guy didn't even care. And again, I'm not convinced that they didn't keep going on after they got rid of him. Because like, when you're all those— when you've got 10 interns sitting around that building and they're like, wow, Connor Salines went from being an intern to being a full-time paid employee of the University of Michigan making $50 grand plus benefits. So it's probably like making $80 grand. In like one year. What did he do? I want to learn how to do that because I don't want to be an intern anymore. I don't want to be at the bottom of the totem pole. And so again, like, you know, that's, you know, tinfoil hat. I have no evidence on that. But it's just, it's just one of those things where if a guy is that good at something and all of a sudden, like, if you have a room, a room full of interns and all of a sudden there's one that is doing something and all of a sudden Jim Harbaugh is in love with him. And the offensive coordinator is in love with him and the D coordinator is in love with him and, and, and the players are all in love with him. Why would the other interns not be like, well, I want to do what he did. Like, I don't want to just be like the regular— because again, I've, I've had interns work for me at Ohio State and like most of them, very nice kids, very— they do all of the little dirty work that coaches don't want to do, all the little stupid recruiting scripts or practice scripts or whatever. And but there's never like a time where like, like they're talking to the coordinators during the game ever unless they say, hey, do you want a swig of Gatorade or something? Like, that's it. Do you want some sunflower seeds? But like, this guy was talking. I mean, so again, I would bet, I mean, again, like with Denard Robinson, they're in the same office. They're right next to each other. I mean, we literally, thanks to Funky, like we've got the photos of their office and it's just like You know, Funky Buckeye, who's our little, uh, he's our little, um, 007. He, he, you know, he found these photos of Connor in his office, and I was like, yeah, it's, it's just, it's just wild. But I can't believe that you could actually, you know, Michigan— and again, we've been called everything under the sun by their moronic idiotic fan base, and I'm like, guys, like, this is gonna be really bad. We've been saying it. People are, oh no, it's gonna be a nothing burger, and this is going to blow in the wind and everyone's going to forget about it. I was like, no. I was like, this is just the legal process. The NCAA is like going to court. It doesn't happen on your timeline. It doesn't happen on the Ohio State fans timeline. It happens on their timeline, which is very slow. But again, like, you know, you saw the people that were interviewing Connor Salians. You saw how stupid he was, how flippant he was, how unremorseful he was, how, you know, he literally lies to the NCAA. And then he tells Dave Portnoy, and Dave Portnoy is like, Oh yeah, that was Connor. And I'm like, if you tell somebody, you better tell the NCAA. If there's one person on this earth you need to tell that you're on that sideline to, it's the NCAA. It's not Dave Portnoy, you know. But again, that's just— it's just me, you know. I mean, Connor Sands doesn't want to ever coach again, it looks like. But what are your thoughts about it? Because this was a very interesting day because— because the word manual, like the tune, it's like the music stopped. It was like, what are your thoughts?

Well, I mean, they've been presented with, with a document that, that charges them with lack of institutional control. And for a, for a school, that is the most chilling thing that you can get. Go, go out and review other lack of institutional control cases and see how they ended up for the school, and it's not good. And so Ward Manuel now realizes that he is going to be the sacrificial lamb that his job is to take the, the, uh, you know, you've used the, the Bane example where, you know, one of the brothers has got to be in the plane when they land and find the body, and that's going to be Ward Manuel. He's got to take the, the plane all the way down. And, um, I, I think from, from his standpoint, this was one of his moments of clarity where he finally was able to kind of tell the truth because he realizes that people's expectations can't— his fan base cannot continue to believe that this is a nothing burger, that this is— I mean, you had Michigan insiders going, I'm not even sure if there's going to be an NOA. I'm not even sure if there's going to be any charge. They're probably just going to apologize and I'm going to all change my name if there's— it's like, you guys are the biggest morons and the dumbest fan base led by the most morally bankrupt people And now you've got this— you've got a notice of allegation that charges you as an institute. Forget all the individual penalties and all the other goodies that are in there. Lack of institutional control. That is— that's checkmate, man. That is checkmate. And at this point, you know, I'm— look, you can never guarantee what the outcome is going to be, but you can look at what's previous outcomes have been with people that have received lack of institutional control penalties and where they've ended up, and it hasn't been good. And for Stallions to go up there and stonewall the NCAA— when, like, when somebody asks you a question and they already know the answer, you don't lie, you know? You don't lie. You don't go through, I can't recall, I don't, I don't remember, I don't think so, I'm not sure. They already knew. They already had it from the Central Michigan people. They already had it. They, they, they, I mean, they, they, they know that it was you. Of course they know it was you. They didn't need Dave Portnoy spilling the beans for them to know that it was you. And you're going to get up there and lie? It's so silly. Um, I cannot wait for this notice of allegation to leak. This notice of allegations is going to absolutely blow people's minds when they see this thing. Because it's very detailed. I've been told it goes into great detail regarding the scam, regarding the, um, the, the assignments of each person to, you know, which, which game that they were filming, um, you know, who, how much they were paid, where they were to go, where— I mean, I mean, you know, great, great detail. This was a very— I mean, I'd like to say it was a sophisticated scheme. But it was just, it was just a ham-handed attempt to break the rules because Counter-Science didn't feel like the rules applied to him. He didn't feel like he'd found a loophole. You know, the, the idea that you can use surrogates to do something that's against the rules, and so now you're exempt from the rules because it wasn't you that used surrogates, is the— just, I, I'd like to say it's like bizarre thinking, but it's just, it's sick. I mean, like, like, what, like, who, who thinks that way, you know? I mean, like, I mean, you, you, you have to have a functioning brain and some sense of right and wrong to realize that that can't be the way that the world works. It can't be that I can just have somebody else do it, and if they do it, then I'm not doing it, so it's not against— I, I I just, I don't understand how people can parrot that, but you see it every day out there on the Michigan blogosphere. They're out there. That's what they believe with all their hearts, that Connor Steines is just some genius that figured out some loophole in the thing because he used friends and family to do it and it wasn't him. So he didn't run afoul of the, of the in-person scanning, forgetting to me all along that it was him on the sidelines at the Central Michigan game, which is the definition of in-person advanced scouting. He's a full-time employee of Michigan. You don't— you're not— you can't moonlight for another college football team when you're working for Michigan. That doesn't work. You can talk about your side hustle, you know, working at Applebee's or I don't even know, you know, but you can't fit— you're not working for Central Michigan when you're working for Michigan. It doesn't work. None of it flies. But watching Ward Manuel get up there and lay out his case for surrender, it's certainly— it's the opposite tone from we will fight them on the beaches and we will fight them in the streets. And now he's like, well, you know, when you break the rules, you got to kind of pay the price, and you just gotta say, uh, we're sorry, and, and kind of move on. Uh, if you're a Michigan fan, you, you, you— I— it's funny, we've had Michigan fans contact us today and go, you know, we don't really like you, Buckeye Scoop, but man, I think you're right. I think we're gonna lose all of our stuff. And we're like, yeah guys, we tried to tell you, you didn't listen, but, uh, Ward kind of laid it out for you today.

Yeah, there's been circumstances in our recent life where it's like, we know what what's going to happen and things are going to happen. And again, like, I, when you review facts and you, and you work in reality, like, like you and I do, we could say with confidence, like, guys, like, this is not good. This is, this is going to be really, really bad for the old, the old, uh, bluebellies. And, and, and again, like, it's, it's mystifying that people think, oh, you know, because I've heard like Paul Finebaum, who couldn't draw 11 guys on a greaseboard, doesn't know anything about college football other than just saying sensational trash say, oh, this is nothing, and Michigan is a, you know, I'm like, okay, we'll see, we'll see. Because again, if the NCAA doesn't go hard on this, you might as well get rid of college football because they're literally— every team in the universe will do this. If it's a 2-game suspension for the head coach and a fine, that everyone in the universe will do that because, you know, you'll play Tuskegee and Alabama A&M, start the season, take the 2 L's, still make the playoffs, run the table, cheat your balls off. Like, it's just not— that's not reality. And again, this kid is deeply disturbed.

He's a—

he's— again, he's, he's a, a psycho fan. He isn't just a regular fan. This isn't just a game to him. This is, uh, I, I'm— I am an absolute psychopath. And, and again, I think that he got in too deep. He started to kind of pick signs. It wasn't surprising if he started off doing it kind of legally, like in-game, like Yoder's like Kirk, I know you picked signs. I was like, yeah, I've told people I picked signs. I picked Michigan in 2012 and I did it literally from the first quarter on. I picked all the signs and I was really good at it. But the game's evolved. There's like every team has like 6 signalers now and they hold up little things and they, you know, like back then it was like, I mean, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. So it didn't take me real long to get all their signs and we started calling the offense off it and we beat them. So You know, it was a nice F you to Michigan as I was walking out the door of my coaching career. But with all that being said, like, I am— yeah, Ward Manuel's— he's backtracking fast, you know? And again, like, the arrogance and the stupidity, like, it was such a toxic swirl for them, like, coming down the stretch of the season where you literally have the president of the university, like, tweeting bet. And Ward Manuel is just You know, like, like, like, again, that's why these guys— I mean, I can't wait for these guys to get smashed because again, they didn't cop to any of it. They didn't, they didn't comply. They let all those coaches left and they're just like, oh, nothing's going to happen to us. And I was like, and again, I have no idea. Like, I don't know what— I mean, Warren Manuel must have to like, have to like detonate a nuclear bomb over top of the entire Michigan campus to get fired. Because at this point, like, I don't know if the board of trustees, if they're just out to lunch if they're out and, you know, if they're, if they're skiing in Park City or what they're doing, if they're eating their wine and cheese platters every night and they're not paying attention. But I would have fired him months ago after the Jawan Howard stuff, with the football stuff, with the hockey stuff. Like, what else do they need to do to stain the Block M? And there's almost nothing left. It's like a smoking hole at this point. But, you know, he's still there, I guess. I mean, I thought that we had a bad AD, but this guy, this is like the worst athletic director in the history of sports. You know, basketball's in shambles, football's about to be in shambles, hockey just an albatross. Um, but that's, that's a Michigan man for you, you know, total scumbag, total douchebag. We've had it nailed and now everybody's coming crawling back when they're just like, man, those guys actually did have some good sources, didn't they? So it's been a fun little run for us. Nevada, uh, we got some Super Chats to get through. Armando Peña, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Before we—

before I just want to say one more thing for you, all you Ohio State fans, just know this: Michigan is forever tainted. They are forever tainted. There will never be a discussion about Michigan football with anybody that doesn't begin and end with, they cheated, they're the cheaters, they're the cheaters. I mean, they will forever be known that. So just, just know that on top of all this other stuff, they've destroyed themselves in terms of, in, in the the court of public opinion towards the guy. They have ruined their reputation forever. And that's what makes the whole thing so glorious, is that they did this. They did this to themselves, and it's never gonna— that stain will never, ever, ever leave them. And, um, it's great. But anyway, so I just had to say that before we get to our Super Chats.

No, absolutely. Um, Armando Peña, appreciate you, my man. I waited to do yours until Nevada got on because I know you were the first one, so I appreciate that. NCAA playing chess while UM is playing checkers. Yes, they are. The notice of allegations 90-day response window expires the Monday before the Ohio State-Michigan game. Nevada was at a troll job by the NCAA.

I think it absolutely was a troll job. I don't think, I don't think anything in terms of the timing with them is ever an accident. And, um, You know, for them to lay out this notice of allegation, you know, right before the season starts, and then they have the response thing be right before the Michigan-Ohio State game. Um, no, I think it absolutely is. And, um, you have to remember, there wouldn't even have been a notice of allegation had there been a negotiated settlement. Had there been a negotiated settlement, that would have been— they would have been in a release that said, we've reached a common agreement, here's the thing, here's the penalties, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's where we're at. That's not what happened. And the reason for that is because the NCAA is asking for blood for Michigan, and Michigan can't just be seen to lay there and accept it. This is exactly like with the Harbaugh thing. I told you during the Harbaugh thing when you were like— not you, but for the fans— I said, guys, Harbaugh is not signing an extension. He's not. I know there's all these things about, oh, Jim's there and he's going to be doing it. I'm like, they can't. It's all kabuki theater. They're going to go back and forth about, oh yeah, I want to be here forever. He's not going. He's gone. It's over. It's done. And that's precisely what happened. Now I'm telling you, in this case, what's Michigan— Michigan can't just roll over for the crazies and go, please, you know, please, sir, please don't pound us into the Stone Age. But they know it's coming. So they have to do it slowly. They have to come out today with like Ward Manuel come out and go, well, you know, when you make mistakes, you just, you know, you got to own it. And, you know, these are the rules we signed up for and this is kind of what we got to do. This is how it begins, a little at first, then all at once. But yeah, the NCAA is out for blood with them. I'm not guessing on that. They view this as the most serious cheating, on-field cheating scandal in the history of college football. They hate Michigan's arrogance and defiance and obstruction of their investigation. And they're going to get these guys. And it's going to be— it's going to be a great day for Ohio State. It's going to be a great day for college football. And yes, none of this timing was an accident.

Yeah.

And like, to me, you know, the only thing that was relevant from the whole 90 minutes of the Connor Sines thing was when they showed the interview and they actually showed the part where he says, well, you know, I, I I, I did, you know, sometimes get film, but it was on signals that already had, and sometimes the film was good. What about all the times the film was good? Was my first thing. And I was like, well, how would you already have the signals? Because you already had film from the week prior or whatever. So again, like, you know, the, the mental gymnastics this kid was doing was— this is unbelievable. And then like, you know, when he's playing dumb, when he's the mastermind of stealing signs, he's like, oh, I've got the greatest memory ever because I have this catalog of 100,000 signals, which again, that is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life. So I'm just going to make up every hand gesture I can and act like this somehow, some way, this might be someone's signal at some point. I was like, okay, that'd be like writing down every possible, like, Social Security number that's ever been in existence and hoping that one day I could somehow hack somebody's identity because I've got all these numbers written down in this Google Drive. Because I'm like, what? It makes no sense, but he did it. And but like, him like saying, well, I don't recall if I gave people tickets, or then like he puts his mom on this thing and mom said that, oh well, Connor bought me tickets to the Rutgers-Illinois game. Don't put your family on there so they can lie and act stupid too. And again, where are all the stringers from that, that sheet? Where are all the other people? I mean, there's, there's, you know, I mean, 56 games, like you probably had what, 20, 25 people go and attend and stand there like this. And frankly, like if, if, if I, if for some reason there, you know, someone would have said, hey Kurt, can you do this? After I did that one time, I'd be like, I'm never doing this again. This, I felt like such an idiot standing there with my phone like this for 4 hours and saving it and iClouding it. And then, And then having him say, oh, this isn't very good film after you did— I was like, there's no way. You couldn't, you couldn't pay me enough. There's no way. All right. Um, Francis M Plum, thanks for the 10. Appreciate you, my friend. Uh, I hope you're doing great tonight. Number one, Connor's show is full of lies. The body language tells— yeah, I mean, his body language was just impossibly bad. I mean, he's like fidgety and he's like, as soon as he would lie, he'd like smile or he'd be like shaky. I'm like, dude, like You shouldn't be on camera ever. And this is really stupid. But again, you know, when you're selling used vacuums, you probably need some cash. Uh, to OSU hacked, uh, gambling. They didn't say anything about the gambling, which is crazy. Um, FYI, fed criminal, uh, NCAA deal with rules now. NCAA penalty after charges. Uh, and then UM folding, which pushed because, uh, the NCAA knows laws are broken. Uh, Nevada The hacking thing was just like complete garbage that was fabricated by the lawyer. Like, I mean, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life because, you know, Ohio State— and again, we're very fair with Ohio State, so we're not always in love and we're not haters, but we're just fair— like, they would never risk that, like, the reputational damage of saying that they hacked Connor Stallion's, like, hard drive. So that was— you want to talk about, like, a wild one, was there? Oh, Connor got hacked. Um, but what were your thoughts on that? Because they didn't touch on that, the gambling, if it was fed criminal. But what were your, what were your thoughts on that? And then Michigan folding when pushed because the NCAA knows that laws are broken.

Yeah, look, no, the Matt Weiss thing is the genesis for everything. I've said that since day one. It is the fruit or the tree from which all the fruit has come on this thing. That will come out eventually. You'll see, you know, that's, that's going to happen. But follow the logic train on this. Okay. Follow the hacking on Connor Stallions. So Connor Stallions is supposedly operating this, this whatever, this what you want to call it, this scheme there at Michigan. And, and Ohio State— Michigan doesn't know what's going on. Michigan coaches don't know what's going on, right? But Ohio State somehow figures out what's going on with Connor Stallions. So Ohio State knows more than the Michigan coaches do. And the Ohio State people then hack Connor Stallion's computer to get the information months before his name ever comes out in public or anything like that. The Ohio State people hack it, and all of this is supposed to be done in secret. Nobody from Ohio State side— you don't think for a second if they had his name as a sign stealer or as a whatever it was, that that wouldn't have been out in the public in about 15 minutes. Of course it would have been. You think their first thing would be, hey, instead of just putting this out and exposing him and talking about this and using any one of 50 local media people or bloggers or whatever to put it out, we're gonna hire a hacking team to go hack his, I mean, it's just, it's a preposterous notion. It didn't happen that way. I've told you guys 57 times how it all happened. It came from their own Ann Arbor Police Department investigation. That was where this whole thing came from. And Michigan knew. Michigan knew about the— Michigan admin knew about this thing for the— and Michigan didn't report it. And so Michigan's in a world of hurt for a lot of things, but the— I'd say the cover-up's worse than the crime. But in this case The crime is equally as bad as the cover-up, but Michigan's toast, guys. And, you know, they— the way that they handled this was it was bad in the beginning, it was bad in the middle, and it's bad now. And there's really no— there's no endgame for them that doesn't end without a smoking hole there in Ann Arbor. And, and they know it. And that's why Ward Manuel did what he did today. Um, but now, yeah, the, the Ohio State I can't believe they gave any oxygen to that at all because it was just such a preposterous notion. And, um, I don't think any, any serious person is listening to that.

Uh, Devin, thanks for the deuce. He writes 2 million. We were joking with LeCharles because he's like, um, they're talking about Devin and Mello were talking about wanting him to come and join the, uh, the staff. And so I was like, well, Devin, they gave 20, which is funny. I was like, I think you guys are about like 1.999996 or 99, whatever. It's like, we're a little bit short, but we're getting there, baby. I appreciate you guys. Uh, Dade Messina, are we still no idea from the NCAA about the LLC? I added— that was something that was interesting, is like, you'd think that they would have mentioned the fact that this guy literally formed an LLC selling used vacuums with literally their best player on the team, with Blake for him. The guy that was the first-team All-American running back, broke the touchdowns record. Like, you'd think they'd mention that at some point, but they didn't. Because again, I don't know, I mean, that, that thing made Connor look terrible. But then when, like, when you want to go down like the, the pathway of crazy, the superhighway of crazy, to go to where Connor Sines is, like, you have to go that, that off-ramp way down in the distance to get that Connor Sines off-ramp of crazy town. And then you say, well, I'm going to make an LLC selling used vacuums with our best player, jeopardize. And again, um, when I talk to Spiro, like, he knows people in compliance at Michigan State. He's like, that absolutely would jeopardize Blake Corum's eligibility, you know, uh, NIL be damned. It's literally like, you know, when you have a coach literally working in business with a player, that there's some sort of law that that's a no-no. Now again, on the face of it, at the very beginning of it, there is under no circumstance should a player and a coach have some sort of a business relationship while he's an active player, like ever. So, but there actually is some sort of a legal NCAA, you know, something that could have made Blake Cormier eligible. So again, I don't know what that is. I'm not a compliance guy. I don't pretend to be, but I thought that was really interesting that literally you could have this little moron running around and actually making Blake Korm ineligible, because that would have been— talk about the cherry on top, man. I don't know if all the Michigan fans would have loved him if their best player was ineligible because he was selling used vacuums with an LLC with an active coach, but that's just me. Um, Nevada, obviously, I— we haven't heard anything from the NCAA on the LLC. I don't know if we will, um, but what are your thoughts?

No, yeah, that's one area that I've always found interesting, but we always try to tell you guys on the show when we have something or when we don't. And I, I just don't have anything credible on the LLC stuff. And, uh, but I'm continuing to dig. But I, I, I, you know, I haven't heard anything that, um, you know, other than it was a really weird situation. Um, but I'm— I know there's other people digging on it, so maybe they'll get some goods on that.

I totally agree. Uh, Lance Price Jr., thanks for the 5. I thought it was interesting from, uh, the Michigan blogger Isaiah Hall Actually knew Connor Steins made me, uh, have, made me have more questions. Very fishy. I don't know who Isaiah Hall is and I don't know what kind of relationship he has. Was it, was he in the documentary Nevada? You probably don't remember either.

Do you? Yeah, I do. Yeah, he was.

Okay. Now I know. Okay. Now it's registering. That's, that was the guy that was like, you know, talking to him out of confidence and I'm not going to do an article and whatever. Um, did you think that was strange? I don't know if that was strange or not.

Well, it was just basically people— I mean, it was literally all Conor Stallion's apologists. I mean, Wetzel, his parents, his friend from the Navy, Isaiah Holt. I mean, like, I mean, the only person they didn't bring was like his prom date or something like that. But yeah, and it was all supposed to be some giant, you know, calling card to Conor, and it just didn't end up that way. I can't believe he'd be happy with the final product, even though they try to line up as many sympathetic people as possible. He's got to be humiliated today, and Michigan fans thinking this was going to be exculpatory have got to be just mortified right now.

Well, yeah, I mean, I, I don't know, like, you know, if it's going to be a puff piece, because again, this is like one of those things where, like, he clearly didn't have final cut, because if I'm, if I'm in Connor Sorensen's shoes, there's no way I want that NCAA testimony in this, in this documentary. Like, that's where it's like, guys, do not put that in there because, you know, he looks— that he's guilty. I mean, he already pleads guilty, you know. Oh, you know, and again, it's weird because he lies about literally everything for the first 85 minutes of the thing. And at the very end, they interview him and it's like, yeah, well, I got filmed sometimes and it wasn't always good, but, you know, people— I'd get tickets to people for the games and I got film and But sometimes, yeah, but Kirk, they blew a great opportunity.

Like, you know, I've produced and directed stuff, and the money shot for that whole thing should have ended with Connor Stallions and the testimony about the Central Michigan game. And then they give him the photo, and he kind of looks at it. He's like, ah, that doesn't even look like me. And then they go right to Portnoy, and Portnoy goes, oh yeah, that's him. He told me that was him, and bang, that's the end of the show. That should have been— yeah, instead of burying that kind of in the middle, that was— yeah, that, that should have been— that should have been the fade out. They should have gone right to black for that and go to the things. I mean, that would have been the thing. I think they really missed an opportunity to, to have a high-impact piece, and, um, I thought that was pretty poor editing.

Yeah, I, I agree. I think that would have been great juxtaposition where you've got Connor like Oh, I don't know, and I can't recall, and I don't remember if I was at the game or not. And then, you know, they show up the photo and like, he's such an idiot. He's just like, looks like, yeah, that doesn't even look like me. And then like Dave Fortney comes here, he's like, oh, Connor told me, yeah, it's absolutely Connor on the sideline. I'm just like, but no, that's right. That would have been like, that would have been as good as like the ending of the last series, season of The Sopranos. The last episode ever, there's fade to black after the door opens. And yeah, you could have played just a small town girl living in a lonely world. I know, that would have been perfect, you know. Oh, it's like eating onion rings and getting arrested by the NCAA.

It'll be perfect.

Um, Madam is Prime Entertainment, AKA ZCM, thank you for being, uh, an Ultra member. Thanks for the 5, my friend. Uh, VOCF Michigan, as always, said yesterday, uh, so just yesterday that Stallions was hired by CMU, and that's legal. There's no chance in the universe that's legal. I know two jobs is legal, but it's too crushing. There, there is under no circumstance can you work for one university on their football staff and then go work for another unit, because I got news for you, there would be people exploiting the crap out of that if that was actually a real law. Like, if, if Ryan Day, uh, was best friends with Kevin Wilson, and Kevin Wilson's at Tulsa, and Tulsa just happens to play Oregon beforehand, and you could go have someone like on the sideline for whatever benefits, filming, whatever, like, then that would happen all over college football. It just would. And it's never happened in history because it's illegal. So no, you cannot be on two staffs at once.

They—

I mean, that's not even— you couldn't even find a loophole for that, I don't believe. Uh, Nevada, your thoughts? Um, again, I appreciate you. Uh, Badamus, my man, uh, says, uh, Stallings was hired by CMU Legal, this voice of college football, Michigan. I mean, that is— that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life, that he was hired by Central Michigan. Well, why didn't Central Michigan say— I mean, You know why they didn't say that? Because it never happened, because it's illegal. You know, I mean, I mean, you could do a Freedom of Information Act and say, do you— have you ever had an employee, uh, or a temp named Connor Stallions? And they'd have to produce all those documents to public university. So again, like, some of these people on here, like, I mean, they need to be sent to the gulag. They're so bad and they're so dumb. I, I feel bad that there's actually— they get more than like 2, 2 listeners. And like, a lot of these people They've left all these other mediums and they've all come to Buckeye Scoop because we're at least accurate. But to say something like that is, I mean, that's, that's malpractice. Like that, that, I mean, you shouldn't be allowed to talk on any platform ever again. Nevada, go.

Yeah. I mean, no, you can't work for— can you imagine like you're filling out the application, you know, past experience? Well, I am currently an employee at the University of Michigan. And, um, like, what, what planet does anybody think that that's okay? He was hired, you know, hired by who? What, Jim McIlwain hired him? If Jim McIlwain hired Connor Stallions, Jim McIlwain would have been fired immediately because the AD knows— I mean, he'd be gone. He'd have been gone. I mean, everybody would be gone. Instead, they fired that Jake Costner, who was his buddy, who was slipping him the stuff through the, the, uh, the, you know, the, the gate and disguising himself like a Central Michigan coach and trying to be so clever with his little glasses and all that stuff like that. But no, he didn't work for Central Michigan. And that, that's not a defense. I was working for the other team while a full-time employee at Michigan. No, that, that, that doesn't, uh, that doesn't pass muster.

That's— it's amazing somebody actually said that. I mean, And that is a—

I know, I know.

Like, that would have been out like 8 months ago. Like, oh, he actually was employed by— I'm like, Jim McIlwain, who again is trying to save his— he's trying to— again, the thing you learn about all these coaches, they all like to be dumb. Yeah. When it comes time to get pressed on something. Oh yeah, I heard that the sign stealer guy might have been on our sideline and we're getting to the bottom of it. I'm like, dude, like, you worked with that guy at Michigan. He was in the offensive staff room. You know exactly what his name is. And he just happened to be this like sign-stealing bozo, you know. So if Jim Harbaugh knows who he is, you can bet Jim McElwain is going to know who he is. You know, Jim Harbaugh, who's on Planet Neptune half his life. So again, uh, W Buckeye, thanks for the $5. Connor Salinas will end up on Dateline if he is not careful. This dude has serious mental instability. Well, they already had one of those. So, I mean, I don't know if Connor's into that kind of stuff, but he is, he is certifiable at this point. And he is, uh, like I said, when you add up all of the evidence, this isn't just like Kirk's, you know, hairpin scheme where I'm just like, oh, I just don't like him because he's a Michigan guy. It's like, no, like this guy's like trying to get a volunteer job at a coaching, coaching, you know, at an inner city school where they'll literally take anybody to coach because nobody wants that job. They're 0-10, and, and he's like yelling. He's like, like emailing back and forth, like aggressively talking to the superintendent saying, well, you guys hired me and I'm in the system, so I'm gonna keep on doing our install and go Bears. And he like wrote that to the superintendent of the district. I'm like, dude, like, are you crazy? I'll actually just volunteer. We still don't want you. You're that toxic. You're that bad. You're that mental. You know, and then of course someone hires him, Mumford and Sons High School, whatever it is in Detroit. But again, like, that's what, that's what we're talking about here. The guy who's, he's applying to be a volunteer high school football coach who thinks he's got the balls to go after the superintendent and say that he was scared to meet with him. And I'm just like, dude, you don't say that to someone who's, who's in a position of power. You know, you don't say, oh, you're scared to meet with me. Me in person and I'm gonna keep working cuz I've not been terminated. I need that written. I'm like, but again, Nevada and I have dealt with delusional morons before and it, it, this, it always ends badly. It always ends with them just being broken in half. Um, and dead. And then we just keep on rolling along. Uh, Nevada, your thoughts? Connor Sines will end up on Dateline if he is not careful. This dude has serious mental instability. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, well, uh, I mean, clearly he, he has, he has memory issues. I mean, he couldn't remember if he was on the sideline at Central Michigan, even though he was working for Central Michigan. Remember, he was hired by Central Michigan, but he couldn't remember if he was on the sideline at Central Michigan game. So, um, yeah, no, he's, he's clearly got some sort of a personality disorder, and I don't want to make light of any of those things, but he's clearly— I mean, he's got, he's got problems. But as I said last night, that only works in a toxic environment like Michigan. It only works in an environment where you're allowed to have behavior, that anything goes, that cheating's okay, that whatever it takes to beat Ohio State, it doesn't matter if it's legal, illegal, it doesn't matter. You know, I, I, I'm convinced with all this talk about the computer hacking stuff that there's something to the Michigan computer hacking thing. I, I I, I don't have that one yet. You know, we've talked about it. Um, I don't, you know, it's— and so I hate to talk about stuff that's kind of a half-baked thing, but man, when, when you've been through this enough, when people start talking about stuff, a lot of times it's always deflection. It's always because they're worried about something that they did or something, you know, some caper that they were part of. And so it would not surprise me at all, um, if, you know, if that's the situation that Stallion finds himself in. Um, but no, he's a, he's a, he's a weird dude. And I think the only reason he's going to get away with probably a 3-year suspension or something like that is because he's not, he's not a repeat offender. I mean, for him, this is his first offense. You know, he is not going to get the Harbaugh treatment. He's not going to get the Sheron Moore treatment. He's not going to get the Michigan treatment, um, because those guys are all in the repeat offender category. So I think he'll, he'll, he'll just become one of those punchlines, you know, long-term suspension and, you know, his career's over in terms of any serious football jobs. And that's probably for the best. He probably needs to get into a different line of work.

Yeah. I mean, he's not going to coach in college football again. I mean, unless it's at a low-level volunteer type thing, he's, but he's never going to have, his ambitions are all at the bottom of the ocean at this point. When you, when you do something like that, man, it's, it's, it's like a bank heist. Like, hey, I'm going to go be rich. I'm going to rob a bank. And then You run away with the money, then all of a sudden when there's 20 cops chasing after you and they arrest you and throw you in the can, like you're rich for like the 30 minutes you're out until they found you and, uh, and threw you in the thing. Bob, uh, Stefanski, thank you, my friend. Thanks for the $5. Thanks for being a part of the show. The best part of that show last night was the shoot-eating grin Kirk had on his face for the whole show. Priceless. I, I'll tell you what, man. I love James Yoder and I love Justin Spiro. Those guys were hilarious. They were killing me last night. And like, I didn't want to talk because I just like hearing those two go after each other the whole time. And it was just like, I was like, is this real? And then the good thing is, is I talked to both of them. They're just like, we should do this every couple of weeks. I said like every Tuesday night we'll get together and we'll just banter and do the thing. And it'll be me, Nevada, James, and Justin.. And I was like, I would love that. I think it'd be fantastic. Because again, they're two good Big Ten guys. They're both razor sharp. They're great adds to the community. And the feedback has been impossibly good today from that show last night. So I like it. It was, I think it was our biggest show we've ever done, like from a live perspective. But Nevada, what were your thoughts? Because again, I was dying laughing at Yoder last night because he is hilarious and Spiro too. I mean, those guys were great. Your thoughts?

Yeah, I mean, look, Yoder's a troll. I mean, he's a troll and he likes to troll people and he's not— don't take him too seriously. And conversely, Justin's a very serious guy. I mean, Justin is a true investigative journalist in the truest sense of the word, you know, classically trained to do it. Relentless in terms of his work and has broken some absolutely gigantic stories on this, including the— he's the one who identified counter-signs on the sideline of the Central Michigan-Michigan State game. So, um, I, I just, I, I just think the world of Justin. I think Justin, like I said, with Yoder, he's funny and, and I, I, he amuses me and that's great. But man, I have so much respect for Justin. Um, and like I said, if you're not following him, on Twitter, if you're not following, you know, his site and seeing what he's doing, you're really doing yourself a disservice because that guy is really freaking good at his job. And I have nothing but respect for him.

Yeah, it's very well said. They're very different personalities, but they both— I thought yesterday was awesome and the episode was a rocket ship. So again, we appreciate you guys for kicking on those yesterday. Poobier12, thanks for the deuce. Thank you for being an Ultra member. Can penalties be worse than expected and how likely? I don't know. I mean, I don't think it could go beyond what we've projected with the, you know, with the loss of scholarships and the wins vacated and that type of thing. I mean, I could see Sean Moore getting fired because of this. Again, I know it's a short honeymoon, but I'm sure that he has some sort of language where it's like, hey, you know, if this all happens, and you get whacked again, then, you know, your deal isn't guaranteed anymore. Uh, because again, that was a big thing with, with Jim Harbaugh, is that we're going to extend you, but if you get named and you get suspended for a year, then your contract is void. Um, or not void, maybe not guaranteed. I don't know what the language was, but it was something pretty severe. And Jim Harbaugh was like, well, I'm not staying for that. So yeah, I'm going to LA. Peace, Michigan man. Uh, what are your thoughts about— do you think the penalties could be worse than expected, and how likely?

Oh, I think they absolutely could be. I mean, I've tried to moderate my expectations on this thing just in the interest of, of, you know, because here's the thing, we're at the phase right now where nobody knows, no one, not me, not you, nobody knows exactly what the penalties are going to be because it's unknowable. You know, it's all about, you know, where the NCAA comes down on this. It's like, it's like a jury, you know. Now you can know what the crimes are. You can know what the previous sentencing guidelines are for these crimes and things like that. But nobody can say with 100% certainty in terms of this. But, you know, look, I've always said it's gonna be a multi-year bull ban. Could it be 3? Yeah, it could be 3. I think it'll be 2. I don't think it'll be 1. And it's not gonna be 0. You know, on vacated wins, I don't know how you don't take '21, '22, and '23 away. And then that whole thing about the national championship, not recognizing it. Um, so I mean, I think there's a lot— look, I've always said from this that this was— that the death penalty will never come back. The NCAA is not doing the death penalty. It's not something good. I will tell you one thing: when this was first brought up at the NCAA, that was discussed. And I've never said that before in terms of that, but That, that was actually discussed. That's how serious they think about this thing. That's how serious they think this case was. Now, that's not a serious consideration as a punishment for them now. I'm not saying that it is. I've never said that it was. I don't believe that they'll ever do it again. But that shows you the severity with which they're dealing with this, because this was bad. And everybody's looking for precedent on this, and the problem— this one's without precedent. So you can talk about, well, you know, there was no ineligible players, so there won't be vacated thing. But really, what is this really about? This is about— what does an ineligible player really mean? What it means is you use the means, a player that was ineligible, to derive a victory, and that victory should be taken away from you because you use this ineligible player, this illegal means, to win. Well, that's exactly what happened with this case. You know, they used illegal means, they violated a rule And by everybody's— anybody who's objective, anybody knows anything about football, they realize this was meaningful. He had access to the side. This wasn't like he did this in the shadows. He was never in the zone. He was literally on the freaking sideline with the head coach, with the defensive coordinator, with the offensive coordinator in their ear on every single play. That's how impactful it was and how important it was. So I think when people are looking for precedent on this stuff, I think they're not finding it because it is unprecedented. But to me, it's no different than an ineligible player. It's no different than anything like that. And that's why I think that the penalties are going to be severe. And I think they're going to be forward-looking. And I think they're going to be backward-looking at the same time. And, um, and they're getting lack of institutional control. They are getting the LOIC. And that's, that's bad news for Michigan.

Yeah, and it's interesting. I don't know how often there's been both coordinators down on the field. But I always wonder, like, was it because of him? Because the Stallions, because they needed him to whisper in their ears, hey, it's going to be run to the right, run to the left, you know, hey, it's this or it's that. Because you don't— you just don't see that very often, especially in college. So again, his impact was profound, and I think that the punishments are going to be equally profound. Sean Kritka, thanks for the $10. Just a reminder of my $100 Super Chat bet that the NCAA will not vacate wins. I want it to happen, but the NCAA, uh, will not go that far. Fine scholarships and show causes for coaches already gone is all. Uh, okay, Nevada, are you aware of that? It will not vacate wins.

I, I, like I said, I, I, I really think you should just give the $100 now and just kind of get it over with. In fact, we'll let you buy out of that bet right now. We'll let you do a $95 Super Chat right now and you can save yourself $5. And you can go down to Chick-fil-A. Chick-fil-A just brought back the honey pimento cheese sandwich, which is absolutely terrific. And you can save yourself $5 on this, and we'll let you off the hook on that. So for this night only, you can do the $95 Super Chat, we'll buy you out of that, and you get a honey pepper pimento cheese sandwich.

I love that. That's genius. You know, again, that's the kind of advice you get from talkiescoop.com. What is going on and what is, uh, what is happening? All right, uh, Daron, Karen Rosbach, great to see you guys tonight as always. Um, oh my God, Nevada, you're gonna eat this one up. Uh, thanks for being ultra members, love you guys both, you guys are awesome. Uh, Yoder's defense last night was hilarious. Michigan will not get in trouble because the networks will lose money without Michigan being good. That is, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And I told him that that night when when like I talked to him for an hour after the show because again, when I've got two good— two guests on plus Nevada, like I don't need to talk as much because I talk— you guys listen to me more than anybody. So it's like I might as well let those guys talk a little bit. Michigan sucked for 15 years. Networks didn't care. Nevada, oh, I— oh, I'll start on this because like go through the litany of teams that— that— because again, you can't control who's good. That's the thing. So like if Michigan gets whacked into the Stone Age, like the train keeps moving. It's like, like, like college football is like Buckeye scoop. We're like an aircraft carrier. Like if someone jumps off the side of an aircraft carrier that's moving forward, then guess what? Like that thing's not going to stop. It's not, it's not even going to know that he's gone. That's what Michigan is. They're like a guy jumping overboard on the cruise ship and that thing keeps plowing ahead and it is what it is. Cause I'm just telling you like USC, was that they were the money, the money ticket back in my day. USC, Beyoncé and Jay-Z on the sideline, Denzel on the sideline. Don't you think college football wishes that USC would be great? Like, like, like I'm talking like they were killers when I played. I mean, you know, Leinart, Bush, national championships, Heismans, Hollywood, and they've sucked for like 15 straight years now, you know. Texas was the one through a spell where they were terrible under Charlie Strong. The U, literally irrelevant. So again, like when you think that a brand is too big, and again, I go back to when I was working at Ohio State in 2011 and they smashed us. They suspended the Heisman Trophy favorite who would have won the Heisman 12 prior. They suspended our coach who ended up getting fired. They, you know, If you're Posey, who would have been a second, third round pick, ended up being a mid-round guy, like they don't care. They're not like, well, OG Wiz, because Michigan sucked like the end of the Lloyd era, you know, from '08 until 3 years ago, they weren't relevant at all. Like at all. Like, I mean, you know, them going to one Orange Bowl versus Dalvin Cook in 15 years, like It wasn't like ESPN and Fox and, you know, all these, all these record-breaking TV deals. None of them happened because Michigan happened to be decent in the last 3 years. They sucked before that. So again, Yoder, like, again, and I love Yoder, but I don't know if he, if he was in the, in the hallucinogens before he got on. He's like, well, the 3 brands that can't fail are Ohio State, Michigan, and Bama. And I'm like, well, when I played, Alabama was completely irrelevant. Nobody even thought Alabama— it would have been like they were like Vanderbilt. They— yeah, when I played college football in the mid-2000s, which again, that's 20 years ago, they were literally Kentucky. They were the same thing. Like Kentucky, cute little program, might get a big one every now and again, might scare Georgia every now and again, but completely irrelevant. Nobody cares about Kentucky football. Nobody will ever care about Kentucky football. Kentucky football is just whatever. That's what Alabama was. And then they turn into a juggernaut under Nick Saban. They get, you know, the best coach in history. And now are they going to crescendo down? Probably. Dude, nobody cared about Georgia. Georgia was totally— Mark Richt, totally irrelevant. Even the first couple of years of Kirby Smart, they weren't relevant. So again, college football is cyclical and Ohio State is the only team that has dodged falling to the basement, falling to the turd cellar. I mean, Michigan lost to Toledo in our lifetime in the Big House. They lost to App State. You know, we've dodged, you know, like these catastrophe years outside of the year where we lost Terrell and Travis, we went 6-7. Otherwise, we've been fine. USC hasn't dodged that. Bama hasn't dodged that. Georgia's been crappy. You know, the Florida Gators. I mean, God, when I played, who killed us? The Florida Gators. I mean, the Gators were— they were must-see TV with Tebow and Percy and Urban's offense and everything. They've sucked ever since. Urban Meyer left. They've sucked. Completely irrelevant. So, you know, they were must-see TV for a little bit. Florida State in the '90s. Florida State was the juggernaut. Nebraska. Juggernaut. Best team of the '90s. Murdered everybody. And they've sucked for 25 straight years. So again, like, that was the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard in my life, that they care about Michigan. They don't care about Michigan. Michigan is a mouse in the NCAA and college football is a— is Michigan is, is an elephant, you know, it's a dragon, it's a monster. Like, it's something that, you know, Michigan is— if Michigan goes 0-12 for the next 50 years, that like literally no one's going to care because you know what's going to happen? We're going to watch Oregon, we're going to watch USC, we're going to watch Bama, Georgia. Like, this is how it is. That's just reality. Nevada, your thoughts on it? Um, Michigan will not get in trouble because of the networks will lose money without Michigan being good. Well, they lost a lot of money for a long time. The Rich Rod era, the Brady-Hoke era. But, but, but somehow while they're losing money, magically all these TV deals skyrocketed. Like, I mean, all these— they can't make a number big enough for these streaming deals. Oh my God.

Yeah. Yeah. That, that was just silly. I mean, it's just, it was, I mean, it was kind of like that. I put that in the category of the, well, Charlie Baker said we won fair and square, you know, just kind of like these little things that they, that they hold on to. You know, we're too big to fail. We're our brand's too important. It's like, guys, you don't— you're completely irrelevant. Nobody cares about— like you said, if Michigan football goes 0-12 this year or stops playing football, all that means is somebody else fills the void. That's the way it goes, man. That's the way it goes at Ohio State. When big old number 74 leaves Ohio State, you know what happens? Somebody else wears the jersey. And goes out there and turns to doing it, man. It's just the way it goes. And they'll just keep on keeping on. And if they, if you don't think if Ohio State had done, let's switch things. Ohio State had done this stuff. You don't think the incident would crack Ohio State? Like I said, they cracked Ohio State when we were near the pinnacle there in 2011. They would do it.

We were third in the country and we had, and we had Terrell Pryor coming back. Like we would have been a top two team coming back. Like we had the, we We had the Heisman favorite and they suspended him. They ethered him into the ground. Never played again. You know, that, that, that's what's hilarious is like, they don't care. Do you think they care? You know?

No.

Oh my God.

No. And Ohio State is like, I mean, Ohio State's like a mega brand. Ohio State, you know, Ohio State's absolutely meaningful on the, on the college football landscape and they could nuke us and the networks. I mean, networks might care, but they're not going to jump in and go, you can't do that, NCAA, we need Ohio State. No, there's a difference between broadcasting and governance. And the NCAA's view is that they're the thin blue line between chaos and college football. And when you step over the line, they've got to hit. And, you know, they've had trouble enforcing some of these NIL stuff. Because of the rules, the Supreme Court, and, you know, all the things that have kind of happened in terms of that. But in terms of the regulations with the teams, they're relevant and they're continuing. And let me tell you what, they're going to be even more relevant after this Michigan case comes down, because this is going to send a message to everybody that there's still a sheriff in town, and he's still got— there's still claws, and there's still rules, and you got to follow them.

Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, that was the best. Uh, anyone else notice— again, osu bucks 08, thanks for the deuce. Anyone else notice that horse on the documentary? I did not. Um, did you, Nevada? A horse? I did not notice that.

Nicole Auerbach.

Oh God, I'm so dumb.

I'm sorry, Nicole.

I apologize, I apologize.

I don't want to get you a thing, but Nicole's face looked a little, uh, I know she was trying to use the makeup and do stuff like that, but man, that was bad. That was bad. The track marks on there, like somebody, like Carl Lewis ran across her face with a track shoe or something like that. But I know the Oracle loves— that's his girl, and I don't want to be mean to the Oracle, because I love the Oracle. So yeah, Nicole was— She was shilling for Michigan. She was doing the big, the big shill. I mean, look at who they had. Wetzel, Nicole Auerbach, Isaiah Hall, the Connor Stallion's parents, his college guy there with the, with the dental problem. I mean, like, that was the, that was the cast that they had. Like, come on. I mean, Brohio looks normal by, by comparison.

Should she have worn the Brohio outfit?

I think it would have better— it would have not creeped me out because every time I looked at it, I couldn't take my eyes off that, those track marks on her face and I was just like, oh my God. It's like, that's what they're trying to film for that up angle. They're trying to take it off, take your eyes off it. But no, I just, my eyes got drawn to it immediately and it was, it was, it was horrible. I love it.

Benji, thanks for the 10. Appreciate you, my friend. Kirk, what was it like when the NCAA was sniffing around in 10-11? It seems like they've lost some teeth since then. Is there a motive to make an example?

—of Michigan.

It was hell, literally, because we had people, you know, the Sports Illustrated, you know, idiotic article that came out that was one of the poorest hack job pieces of journalism I've ever seen, where he's like, this guy George Dorman is interviewing like felons, like through the glass. And the guy's like, why would I ever lie? No, I'm like, well, you're sitting behind glass, like 6-inch glass, because you're a liar, you're a drug dealer, you're a scumbag, whatever. And, and, and that was all, that was all Bible. Cause again, we killed everybody in the 2000s. We're killing everybody and we had Terrell coming back. And so, you know, this stupid, uh, the stuff with Trask starts going on and then there's these email and then there's Tattoo Gate and it was, it was terrible. I mean, we used to have like Joe Shad was working at ESPN. He would camp out outside of our training table. There'd be a big satellite truck at, at the Fawcett Center. And I was like, what are we— what is this? Like, is this really this? And but again, you have to understand, and I say this to you guys all the time, and you guys are the smartest Ohio State fans in the works. You watch this show and we educate you on how this stuff works. Ohio State is a ratings monster. So that's why ESPN writes the story where it's like the $20 million Ohio State team that Ryan Day built. Like, that's their headline for their entire— for all of sports. Like, that's the headline because Ohio State is clicks. Colin Cowherd, who I love and Nevada does very well, loves talking about Ohio State. LeBron, when he was here, you know, whatever. Baker Mayfield, like, he has— I don't think he said Baker Mayfield's name since he left the Cleveland Browns. But Ohio sports fans are very passionate and the media knows how to trigger them. And if you can break a story on Ohio State football, then it's like hitting the jackpot at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas. It is like hand pay, hand pay, hand pay. Let's go to the SDK and get us a steak.

But it was, um, it was terrible.

I mean, again, like, I, I, it's— and again, that's why when Nevada Buck says something that's hyper intelligent, like, hey, if it's only a 2-game suspension and it's a $500,000 fine like Yoder projected, like, I am— like I told you, I would rent my jet, I would use my credit card, swipe it, Let's fly the jet to Indy before they— before they pull that offer off the table. I'm flying there and signing it. I don't care about the Texas Longhorn game. I don't care if Texas beats us 500 to nothing. I'm signing it. Let's get this cloud out of our city. Let's help the morale of the organization, of the football team, of the student body, of the boosters that have to give us money for NIL. You know, that's where I'm at. I don't want this lingering because you know why? Because you know, you know what's going to dry up? Your fundraising, your, your, your NIL fund, because all of a sudden these people are like, why am I going to give money to a team that's going to suck for 3 years? They're going to be under scholarship reduction, bowl ban. Why am I going to— why are we going to pay NIL money to kids that can't even play for a championship? Why? So I can watch them play against Rutgers and Penn State. Great. We don't care. We'll see in 4 years when all that expires and then we have a new coach and a whole new organization. So, um, But it was terrible. Again, I lost my passion for coaching college football when I watched Jim Tressel get a bullet from Gene Smith. I was in the room, I watched it, and I was just like, I hate you guys so much right now. Like, I'm working for Ohio State and I hate people that are at Ohio State because you guys fired the greatest human being I've ever been around. You guys didn't let him have his day in court. And I was just like flabbergasted. I was like, is this real? Like we're just gonna bullet a guy who's done everything for all these kids. We did it on Labor Day because we're— or, um, Memorial Day, excuse me. None of the kids were there. So there's like 5 kids. Every kid was at home for a barbecue. So there were like 5 kids in the building. You know, we called a meeting at 7 AM. Only 5 kids could get to it, and they're in the front row crying. And I watched Jim Trestle have to go up there and resign to 5 kids and the staff that was all in the building watching get fired. And I was just like, I don't know. So it was terrible. And again, that's why I'm so passionate. Like, again, and Yoder, who I love to death, but it's crazy for thinking it's a 2-game suspension. Like, I would take that in a heartbeat because we had Terrell had like a— Devere had like an 8-game suspension. The rest of the guys had 5-game suspensions. Terrell, I don't even know what his initial suspension was. Obviously he never played again. So like a 2-game suspension is like, that's nothing. You know, but again, like, I've lived it. I've been in the middle of the hurricane that is like, you know, investigations and rumors and, hey, did you hear this? And hey, they're snooping around this and it's chilling. So again, to get over it is great. And again, that's why I was glad that, you know, after that horrific '06-'07 season, you know, they had to fire hose it. And again, that's where, that's where I'm at with Michigan at this point. If I'm Michigan, I, you know, hire, hire me as the athletic director. I'd say you guys are all gone. You guys are all fired. We're bringing— everything's going to be new. Every person's going to be new. We're going to start the thing from scratch. It's kind of what happened with Urban. He kept Fickle and he kept Vrabel, kept me, kept Drayton. Everybody else is gone. You know, new strength coach, new, new culture, new everything. Because it was like, you know, they, they, the, the organizational hierarchy decided to fire hose the whole thing, which again, it's fine. Yeah. That's sometimes you have to do that. Like when you've got, you know, something that's infested, you have to rip it out root and stem. Them. It's kind of what you gotta do. Nevada, do you have anything to add on 10/11? Because I know you weren't, obviously this isn't to you because you weren't in there, but you were there. You were living in, you know, you had plenty of sources back then, probably, you know, you had a ton of sources back then.

But any thoughts on that? No, just, you're absolutely right. You want to, the last thing you want is a lingering NCAA investigation. And so the idea that any person, if Michigan was offered anything that was even remotely acceptable, man, they would have, they would have taken it. They would have taken it. They'd be done. They'd put this thing behind them. Just think about how they're getting pillared in the press right now. And you're right, this directly impacts your fundraising. That directly affects your recruiting. This directly affects your player retention on your, on your team. I mean, it affects everything. And it's all bad, and that could all go away because you're going to pay a fine. I mean, Yoder's a smart guy, but for him to say something that dumb— well, he did say he thought Michigan was a national championship contender this year too, and that was other— that was another really dumb thing. So, um, yeah, I don't— you want to put this stuff behind you because it's— nobody wins. It's a terrible situation all the way around.

Well, yeah, like, I mean, I'd say how much did you bet on that? How much did you bet on over 9.5 or whatever? Because if you think they're going natty, why don't you put a bunch of money on that? Tyler Keresty, thanks for the 5. Uh, Kirk in Nevada, how hard is it for someone to tell the truth? Because for Michigan and Stallions, it's like pulling teeth from my observation. I mean, you know, again, Liar Liar had the greatest line ever on truth where it was like, you know, Sometimes you have to lie. Like he talked about, like, you know, if mommy's pregnant and she looks a little big and, you know, she asked her if she looks beautiful, you say, yeah, of course you look beautiful. You know, I mean, like, that's like, and again, Kim is as beautiful as it gets. So again, but that was like a perfect thing. But like, I know one thing, if I'm talking to the NCAA, I'm telling them everything that they'd ever want to know. I don't care. I'm saying, look, I'm going to cooperate and you guys can smash me for being an idiot, but I'm going to cooperate. It's not going to look good on me, but I'll be exonerated. I'll be able to sleep at night. Um, whatever. Because again, that's the problem when you do something like what Connor Stallions did, is like you have this, you know, it's not really a dichotomy because like you don't really have a choice. If you want to lie to those guys, that's great. But when it's something that they can figure out like pretty quickly, like that's you on the sideline, Central Michigan already, uh, you know, went through their investigation, they already confirmed it was you, and then you come around and lie to them them, then that's, that's basically an intelligence test at that point, you know. And that's, that's the hard part to me is I'm like, dude, like, you can't— when those people— and I've said it, you guys listen to my show, I say, I say the same stuff every night— it's like, if, if he— if that is my executioner, I am trying to be as humble and kind and contrite as possible, you know. And I've been through situations where people— and people lie about me every day, I don't you know, but I mean, I, I, we, the reason why we smoke everybody in the ratings and we have the highest rated podcast by a country mile now is because we tell you guys the truth. Yeah, we're not, we're not under the, the microscope of, oh, you, you guys have to say this because otherwise you can be threatened by, uh, you know, they'll do something to you. Like, we tell you guys the truth. And again, if I'm talking the NCAA, I'm really telling the truth. You know, I'm telling guys, this is what I did. I'm caught, I'm screwed. Because again, you got to beg for mercy at that point when you're doing something that stupid, that nefarious, like you just have to beg for mercy. That's, that's like a murder charge in college football. Like stealing signs, what he did, that's committing murder. You know, you're probably going to go away for a long time. You got to throw yourself at the mercy. The one thing you don't do is you don't flip them off and you don't say bet and you don't do like everything that Michigan did. Is literally the textbook opposite of what you should do. Like, you don't say bet and you don't say, oh, you know, we're going to fight this. And oh, like, it's the opposite. I mean, honestly, like, the guy that's played this the best is Harbaugh because he just got out of there. He's like, all right, you guys have fun with this. Yeah. Because again, Jim Harbaugh hates Ward Manuel as bad as any human being hates anybody. And it's mutual. So Ward Manuel hates Jim Harbaugh. So Jim Harbaugh, like, on his way out the door with his national championship ring already made, he's like, see, Hey guys, you guys could deal with the fallout. And he doesn't even have to deal with successor syndrome, Nevada, because they're going to be a smoking hole by the time the NCAA is done with them. Um, but Nevada, what are your thoughts? Uh, how hard is it to— for someone to tell the truth? Because it feels like for Michigan and science, it's like pulling teeth from, uh, your observation. And again, thank you, Tyler. You're on here every night, and that's a fantastic question.

Yeah, no, it looks— it's just cultural. I mean, it's just, that's the culture there. You just lie. And I mean, think about, I mean, Harbaugh, to get up like he did, and I never lie, he is the biggest liar, he's the most dishonest person, and he just got busted by the NCAA for lying. And for him to get up there and do that, it just shows you how deep it runs. And so I, yeah, I think they come by it honestly, but you know, you're right, when you're in that situation, The only path forward for you is to tell the truth, try to get this thing behind you in terms of doing it. But it's just, that's just not culturally acceptable at Michigan. And that's why they're in this situation that they are. You know, they've taken a combative attitude and they thought that it was going to be cute with their fans and that was going to, oh look, look, we're fighting. Oh look, Yoko Ono said that. This is so great. Look, our president gets it. Yeah, that's great until 'til now. Now you got the investigation, now it's not so great. Now Yoko Ono isn't coming out with any bet things, and Ward Manuel's on local Ann Arbor radio telling people to prepare for the worst and, you know, buckle up. So, um, yeah, I, I just think it's, it's a cultural problem up there, and, and maybe it'll change. Maybe it'll change when, uh, when they finally get nuked, but I don't think so. I really think it's just, it's just, it's who they are.

Totally agree. Uh, Paul Lewis, uh, my man, Scoop Ultra member, Scoop Hall of Famer. I'm gonna build that Hall of Fame. That's gonna be my project for this next week or two. Uh, thanks for the $50, my man. Hi guys, will you guys be doing any live games? I don't know, Nevada. I don't think we've gotten around to doing game live streams because, you know, you like— I go to the games and I know you like to watch the games and enjoy them. So yeah, the live streams are fun, but I mean, maybe a rewatch But, you know, the ones that would be more practical would be road games, maybe. Um, but we haven't really discussed that. So no plans yet, Paul, but we're open to anything. I mean, we did that, that like 4-hour Michigan-Alabama overtime game, and that was like, you know, it wasn't a monster view thing because nobody really wants to rewatch a 4-hour like thing about a game where Michigan wins something. So, um, but again, I'm open to anything. And I love hearing what you guys like for content or content ideas. So put those down in the comments because it's always good. Uh, Nevada, your thoughts on doing any live games?

Yeah, I just, I mean, I just like watching the game so much. Like after everything that I do, like the most fun that I have all year at all time is watching Ohio State football, whether it be in person or on TV or whatever it is. And when you have to do a live cast and You know, because just, just from a technical standpoint, because we can't show the broadcast on the thing, like we have to be watching the TV and then talking. And so that means I have to watch TV with like on closed captioning. And I mean, it's just, it, it's, I'm just not sure I want to take it. Now, maybe we'll watch somebody else's game and we'll comment. Maybe we'll do the Texas-Michigan game or something like that and watch that and just goof on Michigan the whole time as Quinn Ewers throws 9 touchdown passes or something like that. I would do that, but for Ohio State games, man, it's so hard.

Yeah, that'd be interesting because that's a noon game. And then of course we've got the Western Michigan game as a 7:30 game because why would we not play the worst team in the MAC at 7:30? Because that's what we do at Ohio State. Um, so yeah, that actually might be an idea because again, we can watch Texas smash Michigan, Sean Moore can cry, and then we can go watch the Ohio State game, uh, gleefully later. Um, Tony Turley, another Scoop Hall of Famer, appreciate you, brother. Uh, thank you for being an Ultra member. Thanks, uh, for the $20. 419 Brigade. So anybody in Toledo, this is an open invitation. I'm gonna send this to Thomas Taylor and Sarah and Andy Joe. Meeting at Buffalo Wild Wings on Central Avenue in Toledo to watch the game on Saturday. I'll be there in my Chick Harley jersey. I'm 6'1", 280, short hair and exceedingly large head. Try to get a table for 20. I love that. That's a great invite, Tony. Appreciate you, my man. Uh, And again, our meetup at B-Dubs is going to be, I think, late September at this point. So we're going to try to get that organized. I'll let you guys know where and when and try to get that thing rocking pretty good. So again, I appreciate you guys. But I— any thoughts on that, Nevada? And that's really cool. He's put out where he's going to watch the game at, inviting people, table for 20. So I'll try to drop some people to that. Make sure you put that on our board too as well, Tony. Yeah, I love stuff like that.

I mean, that's— but this is all kind of what the Scoop family is about. And when you're doing that, whether you, you're, you're having a watch party or you're getting together or you have a business or you have something, you're an event that you want to promote, let's do it all here and, um, let's support each other. But that's— I wish I was going to be in Toledo. I'd, uh, I'd, I'd be there with, uh, the 6'1" 280 guy with the Chick Harley jersey.

Yeah, and support B-Dubs and support, um, You know, Twin Peaks, uh, Panera Bread, uh, they're re-upping. We've got some great sponsors, guys. Support the crap out of them. They're the best, and I just appreciate you guys so much for doing that. Uh, Trent Prang, thanks for the $5. When did Connor start cheating? Is the Naval Academy caught up in this? Did he go, um, did he go, uh, for this there too? Well, they showed the Ohio State game, which I thought that was kind of like a troll job move move by Connor where he talked about like the first kid that he ever coached was sideline at, uh, the Ohio State game. But I, if I had to, if you said, Kirk, how do you think this all went down, the natural progression of this? I think that Connor initially like tried to pick signs, you know, because again, you gotta, you know, figure out something to do. And again, do I really think Stafford said, hey, you could go try to pick signs? Like, I don't know, like that would be kind of I've never heard that before. Like, I mean, like, when I picked signs at Ohio State, it wasn't because someone told me to. I was just sitting up there and sitting next to Tom Herman, and I was like, well, how can I, like, you know, do more? So I'm looking through binoculars, I was like, oh, there's, you know, Tim Beckman. I started— I did the Illinois game, then I— and we— now, we were beating Illinois by 35 points when I started picking them. I was like, let's see if I can get these signs. Got them. Then we started against Michigan. It's like, let me see if I get these signs. And they only had one signaler, so it was like stealing basically because there's one guy, there were 7 guys doing, you know, the Macarena trying to signal stuff in. I mean, it was super easy to pick. But Connor, I would imagine he started at Navy and he kind of picked them. And again, back 10 years ago is like 1,000 years in regular human time, like for college football. Like, I would bet everything— and he didn't say this, but I would bet everything that he figured out that Luke Fickle was the coordinator. Luke Fickle is the main signaler. Luke's like, like, you know, and they had a bunch of other idiots around him, like Ron Miles and these interns that were dancing around doing whatever. But Luke Fickle is always going to be the main guy. Like Luke Fickle is never going to be the dummy signaler, the D coordinator. So he probably figured, well, Luke Fickle was probably the signaler and he guessed right. And then he started, you know, I don't know if he wrote notes down, he had a crib sheet, whatever. And he started to kind of progress like, okay, this is. This is the blitz. This is the coverage. This is whatever. And then he started picking it. And then on the flip, I mean, he probably had— in '14, I'm trying to think who the GAs were. It wasn't Drew Maringer, but generally, like, if you're going to guess who's the live signaler, it's probably the guy— if there's a guy who's a quarterback GA, that would be the first guy I'd try. But it's not really that hard to pick up. Pick stuff. And then a lot of times, um, it's funny, one of the things he said that just proved that he's, he's a moron, he said like Ohio State went 5 out to the side. 5 out to the side just was the formation. Like, that's what, that's what all the guys do so that all the receivers look back and they know what the formation is. Um, that doesn't give you the play. That doesn't say that it's a pass. He said, oh, they went 5 out to the side, that means pass. No, it doesn't. This means a formation, moron. So at least if you're gonna lie, at least you'll get yourself right. Um, But I think that he started doing it and he's like, well, again, because this is the guy who's trying to build in his crazy mind, how can I get better and better and better and better and better and better? And he finally was like, you know what would be really good is if I got their signals live and I had, you know, time to prep for them, weeks to prep for them. Because again, with the Michigan— you know, when it's the Ohio State-Michigan game and he sends people to 7 games, like each week he's getting a glob of signals and he's adding it to his giant, you know, Unabomber, you know, apartment manifesto thing where he's saying, okay, let's break down this Ohio State game versus Virginia Tech and then against Kent State and then against Cincinnati, whoever. And then by the end of the year, he's got this whole thing where he's got all the signals picked and he's been looking at them like flashcards to the point where he gets in that game and it's just like you know, it's, it's, it's everything second nature. Everything's reactionary at that point because it's like he's been studying it because he's just that obsessed with it. Because I think when he was picking the, the signs, he did, you know, the, the other teams. But like, you don't— when you're playing Michigan State and they're just completely helpless and they've got JD DuPlein and Nick Samac playing O-line, like, they're not going to beat Michigan no matter what. So you don't really need to spend as much time on that. But for like Penn State Ohio State, that's where I'm dedicating my, my night, you know, my, my 10:00 PM to 3:00 AM study time is to those two. Cuz those are the ones you actually need to be sharpened up and ready to roll.

But yeah, but, yeah, but Kirk, Kirk, let me just say something. Okay. Because they made a big point of this on the, on the documentary, the mockumentary, and I thought it did such a disservice. And we've said this before, but I wanna make this point abundantly clear. You cannot pick signs off a television broadcast. No, you cannot pick signs off an All-22 tape. It's impossible. They don't show enough of the sign. The only way that signs are helpful is that you have a lot of them and you can splice it to the play so you can see what the play was what the signs were, and you have a large sample on this. You can't do it off of that. So they kept showing the television thing, and they showed us like the same television thing where they showed— you might get 3 seconds of signed people every 10 plays on a television broadcast. That is not helpful to sign stealing. So when he was saying about, I was picking them off the television thing, or they're there's a bunch of people in the— this underground sign stealers thing where they pick them off television. That is an absolute total 100% fabrication. Or in other words, it's a lie. It can't be done. And I just want— I just wanted to clear that up because they made it sound like that's even— you can't try it yourself. I don't— watch the next game and tell me how many times you see the signs for any period of time on the sideline, and then get back to us and let us know.

That's, that's it. That's your homework assignment for tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, Dion, you know, Colorado's playing Montana State. Sit there with your notepad and just count. Don't even try to pick the signs. Count how many times they show the signalers on the TV copy, and, and try to do it for both teams. Because again, why do they not show the signalers? Because nobody cares. You know who they're going to show? Dion or the defensive coordinator, the offensive coordinator, Shadur Sanders, Beyoncé, like who— like anything but that. Because again, go watch a football game. What's in between plays when there's a 35-second clock? They flash to the quarterback, they flash to the defensive coordinator up in the box, the offensive coordinator up in the box, the guys, the guy on the field, the other head coach, the middle linebacker. They show everything because nobody cares about the signals. So why are you going to waste TV time when there's no emotional raw impact of looking at a signaler. They want to see, well, what's Shador? What's he got on his? Does he have a Patek or does he have a Rolex on or whatever? Like, I mean, it's just, it's not worth it. And again, if, if my film guy, and again, I know Urban Meyer, I know, I know all of Urban's tricks and I love Urban Meyer. If our film guy, Mark Quisenberry, would have left the signals on our All-22 or left our formations, our shifts, he had fired him. Like, you're not going to do that. Even when, when teams do the lookback stuff, they cut right up until before the snap. They don't show the whole gyrations of the lookback and everything else. So they're not, you know, coaches are not willingly going to give things up if they don't have to. They're not going to give up your shifts, your motions. And again, in 2012, you know, Urban, didn't want the shifts and motions when we were doing it. We were doing all these little goofy explode huddles and all these other different things. And he told our film guy, cut, cut that out. Don't have the motions and shifts on there. So we sent that film up to Michigan State and they complained, well, we didn't see any of the shifts and motions. And it's just like, well, tough, tough, you know, tough bananas, I guess. I don't know. Because that's, that's just, you know, again, coaches are not in the business of giving up, you know, their, their, their codes. You know, their windtalker codes. Like, they're not giving up your signals. They're not giving up anything that they can. And again, on the TV thing, that was— there's a lot of dumb— I know Connor sounds a very dumb human being, but what he said, oh, I picked it off the TV copy, I— there's literally no chance. And again, I watch more football than any human being on Earth. I watch college, pro, NFL, Europe, like, whatever. And I've, I've never been like, wow, I, I know what the play is, you know, because you have to have Every single play, you have to have the signals for every play. It's the only way you can do it. You can't just get 1 out of every 35 things because they show, you know, a wide shot of the quarterback and he's looking at the signalers. Like, that's not enough. That's— you're not going to be able to do anything proficient because, again, accuracy matters with sign stealing. Because, again, I did it. I did it live in the Michigan game. And like, if I miss on one, Urban Meyer is going to kill me, you know? So when you miss on them and again, you saw what happened when he was wrong when they played TCU. And they lost by 70 points, it's because they knew that what Connor Suggs is doing, and they changed everything. And all of a sudden it was like a magician that forgot how to do all of his tricks, and they got absolutely destroyed because that's what happens. Because again, the problem with when you do that is all of a sudden you're relying on it, and it's like heroin. And also those guys are junkies and they can't kick the habit and they're done. So again, TCU was— they were hip to it, and I'm sure every team. And it was a weird situation where, you know, normally there's like this nationalism that comes with being, oh, I'm Vanderbilt. And if Georgia wins the national title, then the SEC wins the national title. And if Bama wins it, oh, we're in the SEC and we chant SEC because we're a bunch of rednecks, morons. Like in the Big Ten, it was so bad. What Michigan did was so bad that everyone in the Big Ten was rooting for TCU. They wanted them to kill them. So they're all calling those coaches and, hey, I'm just telling you that they'll have your signs. They've been— they probably, you know, went to the Big 12 championship or whatever thing they're in, Big 12 championship or whatever, and they, they probably had some of their— they probably video them. And when you've got 3 weeks to get ready for, you can change everything. But normally you've only got 1 week. Normally you've only got 5 days with 2 practices and a walkthrough, so you don't have time to change everything. So it makes it really, uh, deadly if you don't get it switched. Um, I think we got everything, Nevada. All right, Nevada, we can wrap this. A nice 2.5-hour show for The Scoop and The Scoop family tonight. Any final thoughts, Nevada?

Now, one, you are a warrior. Kirk Barton is a— you know, you are that life, man.

You know that.

Yeah, that is a fact. And two, Ward Manuel putting up the white flag today, guys. It's happening. We've been telling you it's going to happen. It's happening. The national media is starting to turn on them. Ward's got the NOA. Starting to talk about now he wants peace in our time instead of fighting them on the shores. And that was not— none of this is an accident. It's happening just as we said. And I fully expect the NOA to leak here the next few days. And it's devastating for Michigan. So buckle up. I absolutely cannot wait.

Appreciate you guys. Thank you, Scoop family. Awesome show. Thank you, LeCharles Bentley, Nevada Buck. Uh, what an incredible show. Uh, again, we're just stringing them together. Uh, it's been a great run. Again, I appreciate you guys and we are powering through the season. It's going to be an awesome run. 7 days a week, folks, 7 PM, we'll be ready to go each and every night. Um, obviously if there is game day, let's talk about game day on Saturdays. We will likely not do a pregame show. We will absolutely do a postgame show. So make sure you guys are ready for that. We'll usually go an hour or two after the games. I'll try to get it scheduled for you guys so you guys are ready to go. Um, if it's a home game, I'm usually getting back from it, the traffic's usually terrible. So, uh, again, but we will go in the evenings and we'll be ready to go, take your, uh, take your questions, uh, answer, uh, break some film down. It's gonna be fantastic. So again, I appreciate you guys for that. If you guys enjoy this content, please leave us a like, click subscribe, also click that little alert bell. Again, thank you to the Scoop family, thank you to, uh, our moderators. Again, we we have the best moderators in the game. We have the two Shauns, we have, um, Akeem, we have Devin, we have Kimmy obviously, who's, uh, handling the Barton boys, all three of them upstairs with the two German Shepherd dogs that are ferocious. So, uh, yeah, we've got a pretty packed house now, so it's actually, actually really, really fun. But I appreciate you guys so very much. If you guys don't do something awesome for us— and again, I always ask you guys to do this, but it's working because we're getting a ton of new subscribers on our audio form mats. If you could subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, um, that'd be huge, and it takes 30 seconds to do. Leave us a 5-star review, write some nice notes. Um, again, we just appreciate all you guys do. Uh, YouTube is obviously the best way to, to digest this because you can chat, you can interact. But again, uh, we just love you guys so much, and we appreciate all that you guys do. With that being said, uh, again, I appreciate you, Steel AC. Let just sent me a nice note. Um, Sealy, Sean, you guys are the best. So you guys, all you guys are Scoop family. The Taylors, Taylor Gang, Andy, Joe, um, Thomas, Charis, Beth, um, all you guys. Uh, it's just, it's crazy how this thing's growing. And, uh, Coconut, um, you know, I'm just— Mark Swick, I see you guys on here every night. I appreciate you guys so much. Again, it's, uh, it's, it's a phenomenon at this point, guys. It's all because you you guys. So I hope you guys all come to our next meetup. It'll be in September. I'll be at Buffalo Wild Wings in Grove City. The date is not set yet, but I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Googs, again, congrats on going into the Fitch Hall of Fame. Um, but yeah, love you guys, appreciate you guys. Uh, thank you to all of our Super Chatters tonight. Uh, again, thank you Tyler Kersey, you're on here every night. Paul Lewis is awesome, you're the man. Tony Turley, um, Trent, uh, I just appreciate you guys. Benji, I read them all down. Don on Karen Rosbach, love you guys. You guys are absolutely hilarious. You guys are the best. OC Buck 08, Sean Krutka, Poo Beard is hilarious. I appreciate you, my man. I'm gonna send you an email. I got an email about your, uh, quarter zip, um, so I'll send that over to you. Zzm, aka Madamus Prime, Lance Price, uh, Dade, my boy Devin Mello. Uh, guys, check out the Ohio boys. Go type in The Ohio Podcast. Into your browser. Uh, follow those guys. Those guys are awesome. Eric Boggs does great work. Um, but make sure you take care of Mello and Devin, watch their show. Uh, they go Tuesday nights, uh, usually right after us. Um, so I appreciate you. Armando, Francis M Plum, uh, and NBA Was, which is a great name. NBA was better in the '80s and '90s, which I totally agree with. I love old basketball in the '90s. So, but I appreciate you guys. So thank you so much. Uh, I hope you guys have a great rest of your night. Thank you, Scoop family, uh, for all that you guys do. So in closing, uh, thank you, Buckeye Nation. Thank you, Scoop family. We will see you guys tomorrow at 7 PM. Hope you guys have a great rest of your night. This has been a great run. What an awesome time. And cross your fingers, working to get Archie Griffin on. So if you guys stay to the end, you get the little Easter egg. But we want to get Arch on. He's kind of the last guy from our Mount Rushmore that we need to get. So, uh, and we're gonna have a lot more guys on These guys are coming out of the woodwork to be a part of the number one Ohio State football show, uh, ever. So again, thank you for all you guys do. I hope you guys have a great rest of your night. Go Bucks!