The Game Changers Episode 1

We're here today to have a discussion, to be frank, to be honest, just kind of about what we've seen and what, what we feel. I thought it was appropriate that we have this discussion in this type of manner. And today, as we look at where America is, right, you know, what do you— what does it mean? What is your definition of what it means to be a black man in in America from a father, entrepreneur, husband, and just as a man?

That's a bit of a loaded question.

It is.

So when you think about the context of Black manhood, it's not in a vacuum. So I don't have that privilege of just waking up every day and living in one lane. I have to wear many hats. So as a father, I think the paternal instinct that you and I both have is the fact that we want to protect our kids. That's who we are as men. That's our innate instinct. But I believe our position is a little bit different. I think at times we think of the idea of protection and it's reactive. Well, somebody did something to my kids, I'm gonna— it's reactive, right?

Correct.

We don't have that luxury. We have to play a very proactive role. I've talked more about how to conduct yourself when you're pulled over with my boys than I have about sex. And I have two high school age boys. You know what that means.

Exactly.

So with that said, that's one element that you have to understand and embrace as a black father. Another element of the world that we live in is, you know, sometimes a part of being a black man is being perceived as a threat. And along those lines, it means that I may have to go outside of my way to make someone else feel comfortable. I may have to make sure that when I'm at the grocery store and some woman doesn't feel comfortable near me, I have to go outside of my way where maybe that day I don't feel like smiling, but you gotta flash a smile to make her feel safe. So I think it's a host of pieces of luggage that we have to carry, but it's a part of who you are. I think if you can embrace these roles, life's much easier.

And I think that's the reason why I put it in so many layers, because that's how difficult it is on a daily basis just to handle one of those tags.

Right.

Because as you leave the house, like, like you just talked about how you are as a father and how you have to react. But it's like to be an entrepreneur or to be somebody else, people want to put you in a box.

Box. Yes.

Because it's comfortable, it's convenient, it's neat. It has four sides, you know, and it has a top you can put on it where you don't have to look at it.

Right.

But for us, yeah, tuck it away.

Boom.

But I think, you know, it's, it's so important for people to understand that when you leave the house, that's one battle. Because now I've set myself up to potentially be that target.

Correct. I might be perceived as a threat.

Might be perceived as a threat. By someone. I can't affect what somebody else thinks about me. But we have to go out of our ways to present our best selves to the masses so that we can hopefully detract from a heightened sense of frenzy.

Correct. You know, along those lines too, it's similar with business. So on the entrepreneurship side, I know that my bandwidth or the runway in terms of mistakes is very short. An incident happened, one of the business is, is sell football equipment. And it does really well. And I love it. It allows me to express my, I guess you can say, creative side. But I had an incident when I first got going. Had a program, college program, reach out and was interested in purchasing equipment. And they said, uh, could you please just send us some samples. We'd like to test out the quality before we buy. And I said no, absolutely not would I do that. Now at that time, because some may say, well, it was a new company. If you go through the social media, at that time we had purchased from Alabama, Ohio State, some of the most prestigious programs. But this one particular program They wanted more proof. And that's part of the reality that you live with in black entrepreneurship is that you're constantly in a position where you have to prove yourself. But here's the irony of it. I think every entrepreneur will say, well, that's the world that we all live in. Here's the distinction. Even once you reach a level of perceived excellence, You don't get to stand alone at that zenith of greatness. You're always being put back into this box of, well, this guy over here sells it for less. This guy over here, who more than likely is exponentially less qualified, less informed, is still put into the same category as you, not because of his quality of service, not because of the excellence of his product, but because of how he looks. So that's one of the hurdles that you constantly deal with, but again, this isn't to whine or pout about, "It's so hard to be a black man." This is far from that. I think what we have to do is begin to have much more intense dialogue so at some point in time, you can really understand more wholly where I'm coming from. Why sometimes how I feel really isn't coming solely from a place of emotion, but it's coming from a place of experiences, a set of collective experiences.

And that's exactly what, you know, I'm hoping to get, you know, get across is that, you know, for us, we're not trying to have a pity party. We're not trying to go rebel rouse, so to speak. But I think—

I like that. Yeah.

But I think it's— It's more so it's that informed opinion because I don't know if you've gotten them this week, but I've gotten a bunch of text messages, people checking in, trying to see how I'm doing.

How are you doing? Hey, hey. How you holding up?

Hope you and the family are well. But it's like—

I appreciate it.

I appreciate the fact that we're now seeing it, right? We're now seeing what is different. But I think the question that's on our minds is, Do you really understand? Correct, right? I get the emotion now, but do you understand the long complexities? Like, it's not as easy as saying, why are you mad? Why are you upset? Why are you pro— because it's such, like you said, it's a loaded question to go back to the beginning, because there's history behind it. There's experiences behind what it takes to be here. And what you see when you look at me is not the accumulation of my experience, but it's the obstacles I've overcome to be here at this moment. I think that's what's important. Important. But I think here's the next question is, what do we do to continue this proper carrying of the dialogue and make this so that it can be sustainable as opposed to being a passing fad or trend?

To be, to be frank, I'm not sure if what we're seeing right now is truly sustainable based on where it's coming from. It's a response of emotion, and with emotion, it's fleeting. It comes and goes. I'm mad today, but tomorrow, mm, I'm not as angry anymore. I'm hurt today, but in time, I'm not as hurt anymore. And what I'm really trying to say here is this: is that what we're seeing now is this purging of white guilt, white shame. And I go back to part of that issue is I am not a fan, and this may come off a bit controversial, but I'm going to provide context. I am not a fan of the whole concept of Black Lives Matter. Not a fan. Here's why. Black lives have always mattered. I was created in the image of Christ. I have the blood of kings and queens running through my veins. I'll be damned if I'm gonna have to prove my humanity to anybody. Because if I'm in a position where I have to allow myself to get to the point where I need you to recognize my humanity, I've given you all of my power. Because if that's a privilege that you can grant me, that's a privilege that you can take away. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna put myself in a position where my humanity is going to be revoked because of circumstance. I.e., I get pulled over, it's a little dark, I have tinted windows, and I don't roll my windows down fast enough, or maybe the tone of my voice at that particular moment was a little bit combative. Officer, what am I being detained for? Officer, what am I being pulled over for? At that point, I have a 50-50 chance of going home. At that point, that privilege of being a human being goes out the window. I don't have that privilege anymore. And so the problem I take with this whole concept of Black Lives Matter— mothers, Black mothers have been saying this for centuries. Nobody wanted to listen. People didn't want to believe it, but here's what's happened. We've seen instances repeatedly of black men being gunned down, either by the police or by vigilante hit squads. We've seen this. This isn't new in our country, but the difference between The past instances and what we are seeing right now, which is part of the emotional response we're seeing by so many people, is this: in the past it was generally a bang-bang circumstance. And at that point I can go to my "what about," "but what about" Rolodex. But what about the fact that it was dark? But what about the fact that the officer was scared? But what about the fact he was resisting? But what about— I can keep flipping through that "but what about" Rolodex. Wood decks forever, and I can always come up with something circumstantial that just removes me, or I would more so say removes my humanity from the situation.

Cast doubt.

Bingo. But in this instance, we had 8+ minutes.

8 minutes 46 seconds.

Of watching a human being be murdered. I have 8 minutes of flipping through my Rolodex of "but what about" and I can't find that card. But it's dark. No, wasn't dark. But what about the fact that he was resisting? About 2 minutes into the video, it's quite clear. But what about the fact that the officer was scared? Because we can all relate to the emotion of fear. But what about he was afraid? 2+ minutes in the video, the officer had his hands in his pockets. But what about— so we keep flipping through, flipping through, and that's what ends up happening. It's at the end when you get through flipping through all your but what abouts, you're now faced with your humanity. What side of the coin are you now going to stand on? People now have to choose. But what the good thing, well, the good thing that's come out of this is this. The people that we've been fighting for so long to convince you that my life matters, they continue to show you it doesn't matter. So I don't need to talk to you. But you're seeing this emotional response of really good people that are saying, "Yeah, there's no 'but what abouts' here." But similar to Talladega Nights, Ricky Bobby, "What I do with my hands?" They don't know what to do. So now it becomes this purge of guilt, this purge of shame. What I need? Black Lives Matter. Okay, Black Lives Matter.

BLM.

BLM. Oh, oh, oh, hold on. Okay, so what I— social media, black box, want me to post that? Okay, I'll post that. Oh, a statement? Okay, I'll put out a statement. It becomes, what do I have to now do to show you I'm human? What do I have to now do to purge myself of that guilt? I'll talk to some of the players that we're around, and we talk about what's going on in the world, and they mention some of the meetings that they've had on the little Zoom calls, and they talk about how they have coaches now crying, and they're so ashamed of being white. Why?

Why?

Why?

For what purpose? For what purpose? Yeah.

What is that gonna solve? Oh, you got some of them same coaches now, Black Lives Matter. You got some of them same people wanting to post on social media little black boxes with the hashtags, whatever it might be. But to get to the ultimate point here, I don't see the sustainability of it because of this simple point. This is all emotional. And people are trying to prove that they care. But when all the smoke settles, the fires are put out, what actionable steps are you willing to take? Truly actionable steps are you willing to take to show me how much you care? I can post all day on social media. I can put as many statements as I want. But you look at some of these coaches out here. Are you now going to start looking at potentially more minority hires? Are you gonna now start potentially looking at more minority, qualified minority hires in your executive, or C-level executives? Are we gonna do that? If that's not the case, don't talk to me about Black Lives Matter. If we're not gonna talk about potentially really taking steps to raise the barrier, that low barrier of entry into law enforcement? If we're not gonna talk about that, we're not gonna talk about really making changes in our government, in our budgets, like we talked about earlier off camera, about the budgets, and putting more money into oversight of the police departments. If we're not gonna talk about that, mm-hmm, don't talk to me at all about my life mattering, or anybody's. Life mattering because it's hollow, it's shallow, it's vague, and it's just a place of refuge today. It makes you comfortable today. But if it's not going to solve a problem— you ever see Django?

Oh, love it.

Favorite movie, right?

Yeah.

Remember that part with that Candyland and, uh, Django was up there and the, the big boss saying, uh, Django, ain't like the other slaves. Django's a freed man. So the young slave girl is saying, well, is I supposed to treat him like white folks? No, that's not what I said.

Not what I said.

And then gave that again.

Well, remember Johnny down at the shoe shine shop? Treat him like him.

Treat him like him. So it goes back to action. No, that's not what I said. Now I said all lives matter and I said black lives matter, I said that. Yeah, but you mean I supposed to not let you into the system? I supposed to not create systemic change? No, that's not what I said. And I think that's what we're going to end up seeing as we keep going down this train of emotion. But if we don't take a step back, Max, it continues to be what it has always been. And in my humble opinion, the potential becomes worse because so many people that have now aligned themselves When the next situation comes along, because it will, I don't have to fight as hard anymore because I did my part. I posted on social media.

Exactly. I told you I got the photo op.

I told you I cared. I put a statement out already. I made a donation. What more do I need to do now? So anyhow, um, that's where I stand on it. And I think that that to me is the most concerning is the inception of all of this. It shouldn't have taken 8 minutes of watching a snuff tape of a man being murdered for us to get to this point, because for centuries black mothers have been saying black lives matter.

Well, and think about this, and here's the thing, I'm glad you provided the context with it because it could be a salacious headline, right? Yes. That can, oh my God, LeCharles Bentley said black lives matter. That's it, hey. Cut, turn the lights off, right? Studio's closed, right? But I think, like you said, I mean, because the difference is today we have those cameras, we have the social media devices to spread things around the world, but we got pictures in history books of people posing with people hanging in trees. That wasn't quick.

That wasn't enough.

I believe that's asphyxia, right?

Clearly, clearly.

So that took a modicum of time, but because it's a photo, it's black and white, it's old, tangible, it's not— it's not recent, recent, recency bias. We can bring that into the conversation. Yeah, that's what about recency bias? But it's like this has been happening, and just because the tapes are now rolling, just like these cameras are rolling for us right now, —now it brings it. And it was sustained. Sustained. It wasn't, like you said, it wasn't bang, bang. It wasn't a shot. It wasn't a struggle and action happens. And what I want to see is it takes long term. Just like the video itself, how it took time for it to happen. The same thing has to happen for change, right? You have to have a long sustained route. And I think that's what makes it so tough to say, because will we still have this same fire come November when votes matter? When it matters. When you're looking at who your state, who your federal, and then who your president is. Like, there's multi-levels. Like today, we have a vote here in the city. You were talking about it. Office of Accountability and Transparency, Citizen Review Board, and how it's so underfunded at a local level, and then How do you make those changes? It starts at the local level. And you gotta be involved. And then you look at, well, hey, let me call my black councilman. What? Who? You know, your state representative, you have a state house and a state senate. I mean, I know we got a mayor and I know we have a governor, but what are these other names, and that's where it becomes that education, and it becomes enlightening people to know that, that you can see federal things, we can see what's up at the top, but realize it starts in the ground, starts at the roots level, and that's what your local government is.

And Max, and that's, that's a great point. We can, we can talk opinion all day, all day. We can talk about the systemic issues that have plagued Black and brown communities for centuries. We gotta change that. At the high elite level, we gotta make these systemic changes. That is true. But there's low-hanging fruit that we need to start picking. Yes. By the bushels, the basket loads of the low-hanging fruit that we have to now start going after. Now, to your point, it begins at the local level. We're not gonna be able to change what's happening up top tomorrow.

It ain't happening. But we had someone at the top, right?

We've been there before.

We've been there. We had him for 8 years. 8 years, but we had nothing for him to stand on.

Correct, because we keep missing the opportunity to pick that low-hanging fruit. It was the Brown v. Board of Education was 1954. 1968 was the Civil Rights Act. That's, by my math, now I did go to Ohio State, I think that's 14 years. Yeah, you are correct.

Yeah, yeah, I'll cross-reference it with my Florida education. Okay, good, thank you.

Pretty much that. With that said, well, Ohio State is like the Ivy League of the Big Ten. But anywho, we're talking about that.

Of the Big Ten.

Of the Big Ten. So we're talking about 14-year span between two landmark pieces of legislation in our country. 14 years. You can't sustain a hashtag for 14— we can't sustain a hashtag for 24 hours. Yes. We can't sustain a motion for 14 years. Because at some point what's gonna happen, Max, the cameras are gonna go away, the riots are gonna go away, and now we have that time span to start picking that low-hanging fruit. But if we aren't educated enough to understand where it starts, or impassioned enough to now begin to take those steps, I'm talking about our white allies, black folks, brown folks, if we don't be impassioned and bold enough to begin taking those steps to start picking the low-hanging fruit and know where to go to do so, we'll be right back here again at some point. And that's my concern is where and how we go about taking action. All this right now, I understand it. I get it. I am not a pacifist. I understand why people are responding the way that they respond. But the issue that I take with how we respond goes back to the privilege of being recognized as a human being. And here's what I mean. George Floyd was wronged. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. But the response didn't make me comfortable. So now I don't have to focus on the issue. I can focus on the fact that you've made me uncomfortable. So now let's talk about the riots. Let's talk about the protests because you aren't doing it in a manner that makes me comfortable. So what ends up happening is We don't have, ultimately, the privilege of acting in a way that doesn't keep those around us comfortable. It goes back to because you don't see me as a human. And if I have to convince you that I am a human, I have to convince you of my humanity, that's a privilege that comes and goes. And in this instance, when George Floyd was murdered, We don't have the privilege of going out and reacting in a way that's emotional because now the issue becomes, "Well, but we can't respond this way." Well, when we were protesting peacefully, i.e., Colin Kaepernick, that was wrong too. That wasn't good enough. But now you got folks out here kneeling. Oh, the irony. Of that. So again, Max, it just goes back to the whole idea of if I have to convince anyone of my humanity, I'm wasting my time. If you don't believe I'm a human being, if you don't believe that my life matters, you know what? For lack of a better term, bump you. And if we weren't on camera, I would say something else.

Yeah, I feel you. I mean, and isn't it funny to look 4 years later that knee doesn't look so bad, does it? You know what I'm saying? Context. Context. Yeah. Context. And I think that's what's so striking is that just like you said, like the fact that we're even at this conversation to be counted as a human, even though in the Constitution, you know, we weren't even included. We weren't a part of those men. We weren't created equal.

Was it the Dred Scott case?

Yeah, Dred Scott. They said we weren't a part of that. Yeah, 5/8. Clearly. 5/8, man. So it's amazing that we have to go to these lengths. The fact that we had to get the 13th Amendment ratified again, like, whoa, wait a second, it was an amendment, it should— once it's law, no, no, we have to keep voting this in. Correct. Just like you have to continue to keep these amendments and all of these different ratifications alive and well in context to be voted upon. Correct. Like, they could have not voted on it, and we could then not have the— In trouble. We in trouble. And I think that's what it is. It's about making— it's not about the equality, it's about the equitability. It's about a shared stake in being counted as a person, as somebody at the table. At the table. And the problem is is that, you know, I've talked to countless friends this week about how they're the only voice at the table. And when people have now asked him what they've never asked him before, they've said, "I had to get real. I had to get raw." And it's like, the fact that we have to do that, that it's not already understood, that there's not even the semblance of that equal playing field, I think makes that so tough. Yeah. And, you know, I'm proud of them, but, you know, one buddy was talking about his fear that, hey, I might get that tap on the shoulder, right, after what I said to all these VPs and partners. And it's—

that's the world you live in.

That's the world we live in, is that you have to do twice as much work for half of that recognition. And it's because you're always being compared against about when, when you become insubordinate, when you get too big for your britches, your britches. Yeah. I enjoy it though. But there's a lot of us that do enjoy it. Like you and I enjoy casting doubt or putting a stereotype and stomping it into the ground. Stomp the hell. And creating a new narrative. We love it. But not everybody has that.

Not everybody has that capacity. They don't have that capacity. But that goes to, I think, you know, why I'm loving this conversation is it's our responsibility as Black men, as patriarchs of our communities, to now start empowering our young boys to get to the point where we are in our lives. And I said something yesterday about social media. When all you got all these young boys out here talking about, "I give up my football career, I give up this, I die for my people." Look, stop.

Yeah, yeah, please pause. Stop.

Pause. Put— push the pause button on all of this. Because as a young boy said, you're really not about that life.

Yeah, he's not BTL.

You really are not about that life. And if you really were about that life, here's what you would understand. There are many of us that come and came well before any of us that are here right now that will claim we are so much about that life, and they were willing to die. They were willing to give up everything that they had in order to just give us a glimpse of hope. And you got these boys out here talking about— oh, full-ride scholarships now. Yeah, full-ride scholarships. Exactly. Talking about, I'll die for this, and I'll get— stop. Really? What we need to do is take a step back and realize that The opportunities that we have— that's the key thing— time to now maximize them. We can't get caught off guard. We need to stay focused, focused on keeping the main thing the main thing, not getting caught up in these social media streets where nothing actually happens. There's no money to be made on social media. There's no change to be made on social media. There's nothing happening on social media other than you purging about how 'bout that life you really are, when in fact you're really not.

Yeah, it's Twitter muscles.

It's Twitter muscles.

You're flexing the Twitter muscles. And then also, if you really thought about it, what can your platform be if you make it? Thank you. Within your space and your discipline or your expertise.

But you want to give it up with your little 2,500 followers?

Yeah, you want to give it up right now? Right now.

At this point?

Right when you are this close on the edge, on the precipice of what can project you further to allow your influence to be a changemaker, to be that advocate for those who are unheard with your platform that you're creating. And I think that's the biggest thing is how do we educate the youth in those perspectives? Doing things like this, like actually outreaching and making sure that we make the voices known and make the thought process known. Because the biggest thing that you and I have on our side is that we got experiences.

You got skin in the game.

Skin in the game. You go back to your playing days.

Yeah. We're the vets in the room. Yes. And we have mentors that have much more skin in the game. Yeah. And they've been through much more and seen much more, but at the end of the day, relative to these young boys out here right now, we're the vets in the room. So if you're gonna listen to anybody, we're the one— How many businesses you own, Max? A lot.

I'm not even going to get into the specifics. We'll just say 3 different areas of entities.

And I'm about 3, 3, 4 in myself. Yes. But you look at that, Max, and you say that we've transcended the scope of former football player.

Yeah.

I haven't played football in a very long time. Neither have you. Nope. But the fact remains We're still viable, operative people within our societies. Our production did not stop because our knees gave out. Our production did not stop because my elbow didn't work anymore or my speed was no longer there. If anything, I think we are blocking the hell out of life. Yes, where it really matters. —But you've had to earn that. We've had to work towards that. But if I— I be damned if I'm gonna sit back and watch these young boys on social media talk about giving up what people have literally died for. To be given an opportunity where we are, to be at the precipice of taking your life and your people and everything else you talk about to the next level, you wanna give that up over a tweet? You want to give that up over a tweet?

Over attention. Over attention. That's exactly what it is.

A few likes, a few attaboys. Hey, a couple clicks. That's it. It is. Here's what I think. Double tap like. So funny, Max. When it all clears out and the people go back to their respective corners, right, people are not going to forget how you talked about, "I don't like white folks. I can't stand white folk. I can't—" They're not going to forget that. And nor should they. No. Because what we're doing, what you're saying, and what you're doing right now, you're giving a glimpse of how you really feel. Because I'm sorry, if somebody tell me I can't stand black folks, I'm going to take it for the gospel truth. Yeah, exactly. And you can't come back tomorrow and talk about, oh, I was just upset.

So, so like, I was trying to get my tweet sent and seen, I was trying to get some attention, and— but it's not how I really feel inside. Inside, like, you're different.

You don't have that privilege. You don't have that privilege to say that.

And, and the thing that I preach to my kids all the time every year at my football camp. I said, once you get on the internet, that's when your digital life begins, and they can trace you back to birth. So everything you put on there, no matter if you think you erase it, get rid of it, boom, put it, take it out of the Twitter sphere, it's still within the social digital universe. And those things matter. They matter. And they, and you have a track record. I said, it's different if you feel something, an emotion you could try and fight. Ah, I was just a senseless teenager. But no, why do you even have to go to that point? Why are you putting your stream of consciousness out there in the world? Use an intelligent statement if it matters and you feel that personal about it. You ask a friend about it before you post it. You talk about it and then decide how you want to live or how you want that tweet to be perceived. Because once you open that book, and put it out there on the camera, that's who you are. And it's also up for how somebody interprets what they read.

That's a great point.

Because like you said, having to say, we got to have context before we went into the conversation earlier. That's the same thing. If you don't have context and you just show it in 140 characters, that's who you are based on whoever reads it. Exactly it.

And that's the one thing I feel young athletes have to understand. You have an opportunity, you have a platform, use it. Don't let it use you.

Don't be a slave to your platform, to that social media.

Now is the time for you to take a step back and assess. Plan days. You get beat on the blitz. Now isn't the time to Max, man, what you doing, man? What you got, man? Let's go, man. And you get all riled up and all emotional. You want to go out there. We go, man, we gonna do this. We go. It's let's get to the sideline, make the adjustments, sit down and take— it used to be the book. Yeah, it used to be a book. Now it's iPads, tablets, tablets. We sit down and we talk. This is what I saw. This is what you saw. So we're probably gonna get this again later. How are we now going to strategize to avoid catastrophe down the road? That's what we do as athletes.

Exactly.

That's the advantage that we have. We have that capacity. But if it's simply me and you, man, I can't believe you let me down, you did this, and we fighting each other, and then we get out there, you all, and then you turnt up and you extra loud, extra, next thing you know, ain't nobody getting blocked. Nobody.

You make that mistake.

You make that mistake.

Big enough to hit 2 and don't hit 1. Bingo. Right, right.

And that's where we are. We're seeing that level of emotion instead of strategy. Young brothers, let's take a step back. Let's get to the sideline. Let's get with your coaches.

Uh-huh, yeah, get with those individuals.

Let's get with your coaches and sit down and start coming up with a game plan. And start realizing, you know what, it's coming back. You gonna see this blitz again. It had success. It worked.

It worked, so you're going to see it.

You're going to see it. And in fact, how it used to be, If you had a bad game, let's say for you, you get beat on the inside rush. You used to be able to say, "For the next 3 weeks, I'm gonna see that same rush from somebody." Until you put it out, it's going to be present 'cause now it's on film for the next month.

It's on film. It's on film.

I got you on film. So that means that your next opponent's gonna study that same tape. The opponent after that's gonna study the same tape. And then opponent after that's gonna study the exact same tape. And they're all gonna say, "I can beat him." on this. But if you have that person in your life, or those peoples and persons in your life, you know, to say, "Hey, you got beat right here, but here's how you stop it." So next week, this happens again, boom, we lock it down. And that's where we are right now. I'm not sure if we're at a place where we've got the strategy, the capacity, and the strategist in place to help these young brothers really begin to organize themselves in a way that takes them in a position where we're not gonna start stopping that inside move.

Yeah, but I think the fact that we acknowledge that is the first step, right? Right. And the fact that we know there's a plan that needs to be put in place, that there is actionable things that we can do, the low-hanging fruit that needs to be picked, I think we do have a start. But I think, like you said, it's having that open and honest dialogue. It's also having those young guys be willing to listen to the vets in the room that can cut. You know what I'm saying? That's the other thing that you're combating, right? You're combating the swag. You're combating the clout because it's like, who are you? Former?

Who used to play football? Active? Active?

No. Former. Former. It's just like going to the grocery store and saying, hey, you look like you play football.

Yeah. Yeah. You've lost, you've lost that, that, that sex appeal. And I understand.

Yeah, and you get it. Recency bias.

Yes, right. Yes, but what about—

but yeah, but I think the biggest thing is, is that we were there. We've been there. The pitfalls that you're gonna go through, we probably either sidestepped them or fell flat in there, flat into one. But we're like, don't get to the edge. Let's create a bridge for you. And I think that's the biggest thing in that, and that's also one of the reasons why I love what you created at OLP, right? Because this is a place where the bridge is, right? Right. And you do have kids walking up to, to, to you and asking, or asking me, or asking CJ. They have these resources and they use them. You know, I was on the phone with one of the guys last night. We had a nice long back and forth with each other, and that's what is creating Yeah, you have to bridge, because think about this: if you don't learn from your past, you don't know where you're going in the future. No idea. And so it's good to bridge those things. And for us, you know, you look at the histories of countries, it was of the world, it started with oral traditions, right? You pass things on by oral. Until we figured out how to write on paper, we had something that could preserve those things. But still, the tradition of oral history is here, and we are those village folk. We are those, whoever you want to call historians, townsfolks, the shaman, whatever. We can pass that history and help you progress forward because if you look at what we've done and where we've carried it to, you pick up the torch and you carry it even further. Success leaves clues.

Success leaves clues. And I may not be as sexy as I used to be, but in my mind I think I'm pretty I mean, I feel the same way. In my mind, you can't tell me I'm not cool. You know, my hair started growing back. We're not gonna go there.

We're not gonna go there yet. See, my hair is here.

Conversation about black men getting together and just acknowledging the successes of one another. But he don't wanna acknowledge my new hairline.

I don't wanna acknowledge that 'cause it's not a success. I want to continually be honest and not deny. I wanna make sure I bring your truths to light and help you move further. Because if you believe you got a head full of hair over there, we've got a whole other show to start.

So, so, okay, cool. So I'm gonna go ahead and let that ride. Um, but with all what I'm trying to simply say is we may not be as cool relative to being up on the latest, you know, we may not be in that, that category. But man, cool to me at this age is success. Cool to me is being able to parlay your success as an athlete into success as a father, your success as a husband, your success as an entrepreneur. That to me is cool. That to me says that you've taken what God has given you and you truly maximized it. And unfortunately, I don't think there's enough of us that are willing to, as they say, give game to these young boys in order to do so. And all I'm asking these young boys to do right now, just take a step back. Let's get to the sideline. Get to the sideline, huddle up. Let's begin to strategize and hopefully we come up with some solutions and some true action steps where this next blitz that's coming, we can stop it.

No, absolutely right. And I think to use and leverage your opportunities and your platforms as a springboard and not a peak. Correct. So I think with that said, I think we've said enough. Appreciate you, brother.

Appreciate you too, man.