Advocate for Affordable Housing for People with Disabilities

I'm Leigh Thomas Brown. This is Crazy Shit in Real Estate. Today, you see, I'm wearing my North Carolina Realtor scarf because I have a really special North Carolina Realtor with us today. Becky LaForest is going to share with you what she's doing in real estate, and it's not what you expect. So enjoy this conversation. Get your credit card ready because you're going to want to get involved in her project. I'll see you on the other side. So if you're in real estate and you're listening to this podcast or watching it and thinking, man, I need some more Leigh Thomas Brown answers in my life. Well, guess what, friends? I have a new program that is launching right now called Answers.RealEstate, where I will give you every bit of insight I have to help you grow your real estate business, help you better respond to consumers, to provide a more excellent real estate experience so that the next time you land on crazy shit in real estate, you'll have a better solution to whatever you ran into. Answers.RealEstate. There are monthly plans available. You will love it. Get your coaching. Sign up with me today.

Good morning.

Sorry I'm a minute late. I was with the VA. They've got some really good updates for us. So I actually, I don't ever interrupt them when they're talking. So.

No.

Great.

Well, how are you today?

I got no complaints. I hope you're doing well. I love that dress.

Oh, thank you. Doing great.

So now, where are you located in the great scheme of the world?

I am in Oriental, North Carolina, over on the Neuse River.

Girl, I love it out there. It's so nice.

It's beautiful. We love it. I was in Wilmington for many years. Still do business there. My partner's there too, but we decided to slow it down and come over here to eastern North Carolina, and we love it. Just love it.

Hang on a minute, since we're a North Carolina podcast, let me put on my North Carolina scarf here.

There you go.

Show out a little bit. I don't know how to tie these darn things. That is not my, not my bailiwick. There we go. That'll work, right?

There you go.

My son says I look like a flight attendant when I do this, and I say, you know what, that's kind of— he's, he's turning 18 this weekend, and so he said it's a flight attendant fit. I'm not cool, so I had to look it up, and I, I realized that that's just outfit. And I'm thinking, why, why can't you just say outfit?

They got their own language, you know. I've got the grandkids that age, so I know I'm dealing with that all the time.

What, did you marry an older man with kids? How do you have grandkids age of mine?

Oh, I do, I do. Yes, I do.

Well, you look good, honey. Talk to me a little bit about how you got into real estate. What's your background? Give our viewers and listeners a little bit of insights into Becky.

Well, when I was moved to North Carolina, I was working in the construction industry. In Tennessee, I was actually an estimator. Oh, commercial and such. And so when I moved to North Carolina, I decided to get my real estate license and continue on that path. And have owned 2 firms through the years. I've been almost 25 years now here, and so, you know, recently started my nonprofit. So that's what I'm here to talk about, affordable housing and how that, you know, I just came to the full circle. In Tennessee, I actually worked in the field of family support services for people with intellectual developmental disabilities. And then, you know how God works, Mm-hmm. It brings me here and I end up in real estate and got a little bit away from that field, even though I still did volunteer work and such. But then several years ago, end up meeting a young lady that has put me back into that field, and we now are starting our affordable housing program. So When God gave me that vision a few years ago, I said, "Oh, now I know why you put me in real estate, because all the things that I've learned now, I'll be able to really build upon the nonprofit," which is my life goal and my heart. And so that's where we're headed, and I'm really excited about what we're going to be doing for our IDD community. So thank you. That's where I'm at now.

I love this so much. So of course, you know, I'm on the board for North Carolina Housing Finance, and we just had our board meeting, and we were talking about supportive housing because it's the, the space of taking care of and providing spaces for people with special needs, intellectual delays, is so needed because you're talking about a population that is not going to generate income. This is not a money-making housing space, but it is a necessary housing space. And we talked about how it's one of those where you'll see an orphanage over here, and you'll see a battered women's shelter over here, and then you'll see intellectual disabilities over here. It is a broad spectrum of needs in the supportive space. And I don't know that there's anything else that is going to be as fulfilling as being a resource for somebody who has no other resource unless it's provided by a person like you. So it's a really exciting space. And I just want to remind all of you listeners, as Becky gets into telling her story and what she's got going on now, everything you do in life, every past profession, it can all add up to something that you don't know about today. Because my guess is that before this last 25 years in real estate, You probably didn't know when or how something was going to appear that would be your life work. And it appears and you have all the tools ready for it, as you probably had at 23, because, you know, at 23 you don't know everything, friends. If you have one at home, let them listen to this. They actually don't know everything. All right, Becky, so tell us a little bit about how, how did your heart land in this space before you start telling us what's going on with your nonprofit?

Well, so about 30 years ago in Tennessee, I worked with an agency where we started a movement for deinstitutionalization. And so what I got to do is I got to take vans and trucks and go to these institutions where people had been really locked away all their lives. And some of my folks that I got out of the institutions, they were 50, 60 years old. They had been there their entire lives. And could have probably lived independently. And so it was such a beautiful movement. We were able to move them into these beautiful homes that we had built, and then others were— some were able to actually graduate into apartments and get jobs. And then our older folks started an active elderly program where they got to just have fun, and we traveled and did a lot of fun things. So it was just always dear to my heart. And so I was really shocked when I came to North Carolina and I met Emmy who is now my sister, she adopted me. I had, uh, was taking some classes and I had to do clinicals at a nursing home. And when I went there, I met Emmy, and Emmy was about 33 and she was in a nursing home. This just vibrant woman just in a nursing home, and it just shocked me because—

like a resident?

Yes, living in a nursing home. And so I was, you know, then I'm like, I've got questions, you know, because coming from Tennessee and that there was laws and laws have been passed in North Carolina too for 25 years, but they've just not adhered to them unfortunately. And that's just the truth. So I was really shocked, you know, to see that, like, why is she here? And so time went on. I would go back and visit her a little bit, just several months passed and it literally— I just couldn't shake it. I just couldn't. So God just kept speaking to my heart about it. And so, you know, got my kids together and we discussed it, and, um, we decided to go and ask Emmy to come live with my son and me. My daughter was already out of the house, but we all— we were all in. And of course she adopted us, so she became Aunt Emmy. So now she's got a lot of nieces and nephews, great-nieces and nephews, and then we consider ourselves sisters. So that's our family dynamic. And so through the— Emmy coming to live with us, and you can watch that in our documentary, the story, her story is amazing, and it's on our website. But she has achieved— she's a 5-time gold medalist with Special Olympics. We even went to USA Games. She's been nationally competing as well. Uh, she has a career, she has her own apartment, and she's just a vibrant, very independent woman. And it's just amazing, you know, it's just that— who knows what would have happened? I don't know what would have happened to her. I'm just saying that I'm just so thankful that, uh, God just put me in that space and her in that space at the same time. But what's so interesting is that when I was a little girl, I used to pray for a redheaded little sister, and I got one.

She has red hair.

That's how God works. And, you know, I'm so excited about what we're doing. So Amy really has inspired all of this, and she and I have worked together to start A Home for Grace. And our goal is to provide affordable housing for people like Amy that are able to live— there are thousands of people like Amy that are able to live independently, but they're their biggest obstacle is housing. There's a crisis, and we know there's a crisis just for any of us right now in housing. I mean, I even look at, you know, young adults or seniors who can't find affordable housing, but imagine being someone like Emmy.

Try— I think the fact that the support services are so important in the supportive housing space because She needed somebody to support her in going to do these great things, not to do it for her or infantilize her, but to say, hey, you can do this. So let's give you that boost. What do you think is the biggest hurdle besides the lack of supply there? Because obviously supply is an issue all over North Carolina and all over the country. What's the other obstacle you've been running into in getting this up and running?

Well, the biggest obstacle for, for everyone is funding. So if you— a person with intellectual developmental disabilities, say they get Social Security Disability, but it's not even enough to cover rent, much less food and everything else. So also there's just no funding for housing. There's no funding. When Emmy was in the nursing home, They paid— Medicaid paid thousands and thousands for her to live there. When she left there, not one penny followed her.

Why?

It, it's the law. Medicaid will not pay for housing outside of an institution, so you have to be institutionalized to get funding, even though it is less expensive for someone to be in their home. The cost— but the other thing, so In 12 years, we have never gotten any assistance for Emmy for housing ever. There's been not a dime. And so this is every— this is most people with these disabilities. There is no money for them for housing. So, and the general public, I think obviously you probably just think, well, they get all this, they get this, they get this. No, they don't. Even when Emmy started working, now her Social Security's cut in half. But she wants to work. I mean, everybody really wants a job, but then they risk losing their disability benefits of Social Security. But they need that because if they lose their job, they need that money back, you know, their services back. So they cut their income in half, which is okay because they're working. But like even EBT food stamps, they lose their food stamps when they start working. So it's a vicious cycle of endless poverty, and there's no way that they can afford rent. The other problem is too, this is sub-minimum wage. I mean, a lot of employers only have to pay them like $3.70 an hour, which also keeps them in poverty. So it's really, the obstacle is no funding for housing. If we can If we can take care of the housing piece for them, then they can support themselves. But that is the issue.

But aren't outcomes improved for people with the same challenges that Emmy has? Aren't the outcomes improved when they're in better housing situations than when they're in an institution?

Well, absolutely, because in an institution they don't have the opportunity to work. They don't have age-appropriate activities. It's congregate living. They're just herded to cafeterias and things. They don't have any independence. They can't take care of themselves or cook or do their own laundry. So absolutely. And they're also contributing members of society. They're taxpayers. They're just all the things that they contribute to society, and they want the same things. Emmy and I were just in Washington, D.C. in April at the disability conference. And we went on Capitol Hill and Emmy advocated for affordable housing to pass the Home and Community-Based Services bill. There's 3 bills right now that we need passed. And I don't understand even why that they have such a struggle with passing that, which what will happen there is some of those Medicaid dollars can now follow people into the community where they can leave institutions.

Oh, so it's a control issue, kind of like the school choice issue is control. So when North Carolina, we saw a huge Medicaid expansion agreement last year. Is there any conversation in our state about that expansion being loosened up for restrictions so somebody like Emmy can get housing support, or has that conversation not started here?

Well, so what has happened with that, which is a good thing, so more services are now being provided to people. So let's say you might have even like children at home that need a lot more care. They're getting more care, so that helps parents to keep their children at home. Or caregivers with adult children with developmental disabilities that need more services and care, they're getting that in the home, which is which is wonderful because a lot of people are faced with going into institutions because of the level of care that they need. So that's a wonderful thing. The housing piece is still not being addressed. And I don't know if there's gonna be funding available. That is the issue too, because there's a great need out there and we understand that. And so let's say like Amy and her peers who can live independently and work and do the same things that we all do, They're really last on the list, which is understandable. I mean, if you look at the big picture. So there's just no Section 8, there's no housing, there's just nothing left for them. And usually people in general, developmental disabilities, they're on the bottom. So you got this basket and they're at the bottom, and then you're piling all these other groups on top that need assistance. And then by the time they get to the— they run out before they get to the bottom of the basket. That's really how it works. And so, you know, we don't wanna depend on the government. We want to just have, you know, we just wanna have homes in the community and it's not a group home, it's not congregate living, it's not institutional living, it's not a campus. We just want homes in the community where we, they're neighbors, they're our neighbors, and they are just like the rest of us where they can live and work in their community. And we also will provide supports through local support services like The Arc, for instance. That's who we're partnered with, and they provide support professionals that come in every week and, you know, make sure everybody's doing well, thriving, independence, safety, and all those things. And in the homes that we're choosing, they'll be in safe neighborhoods. They'll be, you know, just like anybody else would live in. So Hopefully the homes, some of the homes that we're looking at, we would be able to convert those into some separate living spaces so that you can have some roommates too, but then have separate little efficiency apartments. So that's what we're trying to do.

So what local municipality think about these? Is there specific zoning required? Have you been embraced by the county in this effort to get your house going?

Well, because we're not a group home, we're just adults. Like if you and I shared a house, we don't have to get zoning for that. It's not a group home, so they really should just be treated the same. There shouldn't be any difference seen in, in that community at all because that's not what we're doing. It's just a home. It's like if I bought the house next door and rented it to 2 people with disabilities, I don't have to go to the government to ask to do that. Well, that's good. So that— and that's— it's designed that way because, you know, it's not a group home. They want to live independently. Um, you know, right now we do have a home right now that we've had several years that this amazing investor with the biggest heart has allowed me to utilize for a home for Grace. And Emmy lives there. It has a little efficiency apartment, and then there's also a 3-bedroom, so it's kind of like a duplex in a way. So Emmy lives on one side, and then we have a another couple people living on the other side. And so it's just been a wonderful experience. So we're, you know, that is our first home, and we've been going there about 5 years. But we need to own these homes, so that's what we're doing. We're raising money because if something happens, we all know, you know, if you're renting and all of a sudden someone needs to sell or something happens, then here you are, you know, where to go. And there's really nowhere to go. I mean, I I know of one young man now, he just found an apartment, but he was completely displaced because he lost his apartment because he couldn't afford it. They went up on the rent so much. Someone just took him in, thankfully, until they were able to find a place for him to go. So this happens all the time. And so some folks who are able to go out and live into the community now who are facing the rise in rents, they're at risk now being put back into institutions because there's nowhere for them to live. So now, They've lived in the community, so they're being taken away from their friends, their family, their church, their activities, their jobs, and being placed back into institutions because there's nowhere to live. You've got— and one of the most shocking things I think I've ever experienced in my time with Emmy as a sister is that when I was trying to get housing assistance for her early on, when she first started maybe about a couple years after she was living with me, I thought, let's start looking, you know. And she— I was told the only way to get housing assistance for her was to take her and leave her at a homeless shelter.

That, that's not an answer.

And so I said, well, of course I would never do that. But then I was like, well, let's play with this for a minute. I said, so can I go with her? And they're— I said, well, where would you send her? You know, I just wanted to be curious what happens to them after you drop them off at a homeless shelter. And she said they just find a bed anywhere in the state that they can, that they send them there. So then that person now could be shipped off to wherever they can find a bed, which is unacceptable.

Right.

Um, and so I thought, well, am I the only one that says experience this? I had a meeting with some siblings and some moms recently, and I told them that story, and Every one of them had, had been told the same thing at some point for their child and their sibling, that, that because then you can get emergency services.

But so it becomes a situation where if the available dollars didn't have the same rules attached, we could actually see better outcomes for this population.

Yes.

Not asking for anything beyond what's already available. They just want to utilize it in a different way. And I, I gotta keep going back to outcomes, 'cause I think that's so important. If you drop somebody off at a homeless shelter and say, just go find a bed, you are not setting them up for great outcomes. And all those homeless shelters cost money too. And I know that's something we don't talk about nearly enough. There's a huge amount of federal money, local money, investor money that goes into the homeless population. But what if we kept people from having to land in that situation in the first place by creating more housing opportunities that would fit different people in different stages. So my question for you is, if somebody's watching this show and they're thinking, I want to, I want to help with this, I totally think the Emmys of the world should be able to use the Medicaid dollars and instead of putting it into a nursing home, put it into that independent studio apartment. How do they help out, Becky? Do they call their congressperson? Do they call their state legislator? Is there a petition they can sign? How do you get people to join you in this quest?

Yes. So there are petitions in the HC— home community-based services— bills. There's 3. So yes. So what you can do is go to that. I can provide links for you, but people— that's great.

We'll put them in the show notes for the episode. So if you send us the links, we'll— that way y'all don't have to listen to us list them off, but look at the notes for the episode.

So there are ways to— yeah, call, you know, email your senators, email your representatives. Sign petitions. The Arc has petitions all on their Facebook pages and their websites as well. So yes, we need them to hear us. We need them to, which is why we went to Washington, D.C. and continue to advocate. Amy has started a self-advocacy group and we have several folks now who have joined and they are going, they're registering to vote and they're looking at voting records and they're actually starting to advocate for themselves. Hearing from the people it affects the most is so important. And then the statistics right now are between 30,000 and 35,000 people with intellectual developmental disabilities are homeless, as part of the homeless population. So that's average national. Can you imagine? I mean, imagine that Imagine your child. What if that was your child and you were gone? Because a lot of times when the aging parent, right, then now this person has spent their whole life with their parents or their mom, and they're not— now there's, what are we going to do? Then they just get put into institutions. So it's really, um, to me, this gives such a comfort to family members who have adults with developmental disabilities who can watch them become independent and know, wow, they're going to be okay. And so that's a huge issue too. And that's huge for me with Emmy, for our family. That's so huge, was the big thing was that she would be able to be okay if I wasn't here. And she is.

I mean, well, you look at the stories that are out there You often see all of these conversations center on the children, the underage children that have these intellectual disabilities. But there's a huge problem after they turn 18. Yeah. That they don't get the same ability, the same treatments, the same benefits. But too, Becky, to your point, what does happen when the parents are no longer around? You're not gonna leave a 38-year-old to somebody else in your will. It doesn't work. So we have to keep this from being a problem that surfaces so late that there's not a great answer for it. And so I love that you're making sure this is a continuum of care and a continuum of opportunity, really, for somebody like Emmy. It's don't make her backslide. Let's make sure we continue to create opportunities. And when you think about the conversations we can have with our elected officials, you're 1,000% right. Emmy's going to get further than you or I ever will because she is the story. So if you're listening to this and you're in real estate, maybe this could be a topic of your next newsletter. Maybe you don't talk about interest rates for a minute. You ask in your community, is there anybody that's interested in being a voice for this particular population? Let me know if you know somebody, because if each of the agents who watches and listens to this found one more story, that would really bolster your efforts and Emmy's efforts to get this legislation passed. Because if you have 100 stories out of North Carolina, the whole congressional delegation is going to listen to this differently and they'll stop thinking about the dollars as much as they'll think about the humans. And that's got to be the goal because we're talking about humans here. So I love what you're doing. And before we wrap up the show, tell our, tell our listeners and viewers the, the takeaway they should have from all this besides the fact that they can support you in these efforts.

Well, of course, advocacy is huge. So what we're— we've launched a Just a Dollar campaign and we're trying to go viral. If we could get a mil— we're going to try to reach a million people. And if a million people gave us a dollar, then we would be able to probably get those two homes purchased this year. The other campaign that I have started is Realtors Care. And if every realtor in North Carolina would give us $20, we could buy those 2 homes right now. So I would love to— that's my ask of my REALTOR® family, is that they would give $20 each. And so that would make a huge difference. So, you know, the goal— and then I also want to go to other communities. So if you're watching and you would like for us to come and speak and tell you what we're doing and show you, you know, our passion for what we're doing, and really the program, the model It's just simple, it's just simple as providing affordable housing for tenants who need that affordable monthly rent because they can still pay rent, they wanna work, they wanna thrive in the community. And Amy works and she's got a 5-year career now. And so most people do want to, so I would just like to, that's my ask, my ask is to just go to our website, it's thehomeforgrace.org, and look, watch Emmy's story, the documentary. You will be so moved and inspired by her story and our story. It's just a beautiful story. And wow, I mean, I wish that I could be more like Emmy. I say that all the time. She inspires me. Thanks. To be better and to work harder. And so I think that we're just going to be able to do everything that God has put us here to do. I know that our mission is is from the heart, and I know that it could be successful. So we've got all the tools now really to take on this project and would love to help other people get it started in their own communities if you want to do that. When we were in North Carolina, I met so many people who want to do the same thing, so we're just starting a real network of providing affordable housing because one of the main things that people just think about, oh, I don't want to deal with the government, how are we going to And we don't have to deal with the government, we just need to own the homes. So if you have started nonprofit, or if you're just an investor and you want to get involved, I would ask investors if you— I understand you have to make money, but if you have that flexibility to get involved to provide one property for affordable housing for people with developmental disabilities with a long-term lease, it would be instrumental in someone's life. With us owning the homes now, our tenants are going to be able to age in place. They're going to have all the support services that they need to age in place so that they do not have to be institutionalized. So that's just a huge thing. But I just ask for people to go to our website, see our story, and just give us a dollar, make a donation. And I just would love to speak to anyone. They can call me anytime, email me, text me. I'd love to explain it to anyone if they have questions. So that's what we're here to do, is just promote what we're doing— affordable housing for people with developmental disabilities.

So think about it this way, friends. If you're going to Walmart anyway, how about you shop from Walmart online so that you don't get trapped in that cycle of $100 worth of crap in your buggy that you didn't need anyway?

Yeah.

And then you could then make a donation towards this very worthy project, which actually hearkens back to how things were before we let the government get so big, when communities took care of the people in their own communities and we didn't need the outside intervention. So maybe you could be a part of returning the power to your local community through a small or a large donation to this project. And if you're somewhere and this is pulling on you now, you want to get to know Becky, All of her contact information is in the show notes for this episode. And as she gets her houses up and running, there will be a template that can be easily replicated in other communities. The biggest thing you have to remember is that when you talk about affordable housing, it is not just the, the stuff that you hear about on the news and in the TV, because we often think about affordable housing as the, the people who are going to tear something up, or they don't want to work, and there's all these negative stereotypes. Affordable housing looks like a broad spectrum of opportunities for people who may or may not have the ability to go out and do the things that you can do. And so this is about making sure we have a broad spectrum in all of our communities. Becky, thank you for what you're doing in Oriental and beyond, and thank you to Emmy for what she's doing to advocate for other people. People that need her to speak for them. It's so good. And I hope that my viewers and listeners will chunk in just a little bit and help you on this pathway to more success.

Thank you so much, Leigh, for having us. Thank you for allowing us to use your platform. And Amy wanted me to tell you she had to work today, but she hopes you'll invite us back on because she wants to be on too. So, oh, well, I think what we say, Brendan, is if all of—

if my viewers would do $5, $10, $20. If we have— let's see, let me set a goal. Yeah, we have 50 people make a donation of any size. Yeah, 50 people. That's it. Small, small number of my thousands of viewers and watchers. A donation of any size. A dollar, $1,000. We don't care. Then we'll schedule part 2. We'll bring Emmy in so she can tell you where your money's going. How about that? That's my challenge to y'all. So share this episode with your rich friends. If you think you are too tight to make a gift yourself, share it with 5 friends and tell them to make it on your behalf. And then we'll see how quickly we can get Emmy back on the show. I'm glad you mentioned that. Let's do it.

She's going to love that challenge. Give her a challenge and she will certainly do it.

I bet she will, because she's already doing more than other people thought she could. She had you to come in and get in her corner and now she can shine. So thank you for That Mama Becky, I love it.

All right, thank you, Leigh. Thanks for letting us be on today.

All right, friends, hit the comments once you make your gift so we can all cheer for you. Hit the bell to subscribe because you're going to want to be back for part 2, because I think we're going to hit that goal sooner rather than later. Make sure that you tune back in. Thanks, and we'll see you around.

Bye.

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