The Wild Risks of Sight-Unseen Home Buying with Cheyenne McGriff

You're listening to Crazy Shit in Real Estate. You'll be amazed at all these wild but true situations that others have found themselves in. Because on this show, you'll hear uncensored, unbelievable stories from the world of real estate. I'm Leigh Brown. Let's dive right in. I'm Leigh Brown. This is Crazy Shit in Real Estate. And I love so much my guest today. Cheyenne McGriff is with us from South Dakota. She is a delight and super adorable. And I know you're going to enjoy this episode too. So get your notepad and pen, and I'll see you on the other side.

I usually have a mic, but I put on headphones instead, so I was hoping those would work today.

You sound fantastic, and I can't see them with your hair, so there's no big— you're not going to get some people making comments about visible headphones, which I don't know why they do that, but hey.

I know, people are funny. Or, I mean, it's a trend now to have those big huge ones too, so I don't understand that.

Do they squeeze your head? Because they give me a headache. I can't wear them because they hurt.

Yeah, I can't either. It drives me crazy.

I mean, I don't understand that trend, but I think it's going to pass fairly quickly because how do they hear ambient noise at all?

Well, I agree, and I can't— like, I can't ever— I can't even have a, like, a headband.

It freezes my brains.

Yes.

There we go.

There's my background. Better.

Diane, tell my audience where you're located, how long you've been in and around real estate. Give them a little bit of the thumbnail on you.

Awesome. Well, I'm very excited to be here today. I've been an avid follower and listener of Leigh for a very long time and even attended some classes here in South Dakota that you've come to teach. So I'm excited to be here and meet virtually today. So my name is Cheyenne McGrip. I am a full-time realtor in western South Dakota. So if you think Black Hills, Badlands, that's me. Mount Rushmore. So if you've been out here, that's where I am. I've been in real estate for 6 and a half years now. I work on a team with my grandparents, which is pretty cool. My grandma's been in the business since the mid-'70s, and my grandpa joined her probably about 15 years ago now. So we all work together. Um, I have a puppy, I have a kiddo that's 4 years old, and a husband, and I live in a town of 800 people. So that's a little about me.

Okay, so I have to ask you, they keep talking about adding President Trump to Mount Rushmore. Do you think that's gonna happen? Like, is there room for it?

I don't know if there's any room.

I think it might be a bigger feat than, uh, somebody want to take on, but I mean, I don't know if we have the artisans for that nowadays. I'm not sure that the kind of sculptors who pulled that out of that rock face could do it now. I really don't.

No, I don't think so either. And it's pretty amazing to think about the lack of technology that we had then and what they were able to do.

I agree. And the scale, like if you think about how tiny you would be trying to create something that you can look at and is beautifully recognizable portraits. It's wild.

It is. It's amazing. And honestly, as a South Dakotan, I probably don't go to Mount Rushmore as often as one would think. Sometimes when things are in your backyard, you don't appreciate them.

One time, right? Don't you have to go on a field trip there at least one time?

Yes. Yes. Went on a field trip there when I was in elementary school, and I used to work for an economic development organization. So we would tour like visitors out to Mount Rushmore from time to time.

So do you have to go to Sturgis if you have to go to Mount Rushmore?

Oh yeah.

Required to go to Sturgis too?

Yes, absolutely. And you know, there are some people in our, our area that aren't so excited when Sturgis comes around, but I like it. It's fun. There's lots of energy and music and new people.

I think it's really exciting. Like you get to show off your state and these people come from everywhere and they're excited to come.

Yes, they love it. And sometimes they want to buy getaways. So it's good to be engaged.

Well, I mean, isn't that the story of economic development, though? You're supposed to create something that's a draw, that is exciting, that's lovable. And then when it works, people start complaining about it because it worked.

Yeah, accurate. Or they want it, but not in their backyard kind of thing. Yeah.

That's— I think that's the conversation happening in real estate around the country right now. When you look at counties that are struggling with growth, like the county I live in has grown a ton because we're great. But now we have people that say, wait a minute, too many people here, pull the drawbridge up. And so there's this whole closing mentality, which as a realtor, like I, I love that I get to tell people it's a great place to live. So now I gotta say it's a great place to live, but not for you.

We definitely experienced, I mean, if you remember it during COVID time, we were wild here in our part of South Dakota.

Because we were on north, we had a governor that shut us down. And so I was not essential for 6 weeks, which means I was working remotely, but I kept looking at land in the free states. I was looking at South Dakota because you have beautiful acreage up there, but then—

We do. Well, maybe I can help change his mind. It's a pretty great place. But yeah, we were quiet for about 2 weeks, you know, when everybody was shut down and then it was like, floodgates were open. Everybody was moving here and trying to get here. And, and, you know, we're seeing the impact of that now with the increase in prices and lack of inventory. But I feel like we're starting to level back out.

So you were at the beginning of your real estate career when COVID hit. Now that we realize that was 5 years ago next month and we're recording this in February. So 5 years ago in March, you were a year and a half in.

Yeah.

Market went from normalized and then it was moving up, but then it got completely set on fire and it was a market that none of us have seen. My 25 years had not seen it. So of course your year and a half hadn't seen it. How did you pivot into that as a newly seasoned realtor?

Yeah, it was, it was pretty wild. So like you said, when I started it was more of a, I don't know if we ever have a normal market, but more balanced.

Fair.

Um, yes. I often tell the story that my very first clients, they had a price range of $250,000, and I was able to show them homes all over in so many neighborhoods, so many options. We had like 3 days full of showings, and then that is no longer. Um, so when COVID hit, it was just like I said, the floodgates opened. We had to really adapt and move quickly, and plus we still had some of those regulations like, like, you know, mask and gloves and all those things that we dealt with during that time.

Um, my favorite, that we had to wear booties because COVID apparently transmitted through the soles of your shoes. That one, I still, still can't figure out the rationale on that one.

I felt pretty, very blessed though, to be on the team that I was on because ha, if I would've been all by myself, it would've been horrifying. Um, but thankfully I have just amazing mentors and my grandparents and plus the office I'm in, there's a lot of experience in our, in our RE/MAX office. So it was, it was a really good spot to be during that time because we were able to learn from each other on what was happening because we had to learn quickly, like how to write good escalation clauses and how to still protect your buyer in these situations. And it was, man, I, people ask me often if I'd like it to go back. To that time because it was so busy? And I say, absolutely not. But one really good thing I got to very early in my career become kind of a ninja at writing offers because you had to get really good at writing offers and learn new tactics and ways to stand out in a super competitive environment. So I do feel grateful that I came into the market at that time. I'm grateful I had a little experience before and I didn't just pop in because real estate looked easy during that time, uh, because it really wasn't.

And.

And now, I mean, I had to flex those muscles the other day with a couple of multiple offer situations, but, uh, for the most part, we're a little bit back to balance.

I love that positive perspective on how you became adept at writing offers. And I've, I've told agents that before, it's not about the volume that you do as a, as an agent, but it is about muscle memory. And so when you know the paperwork well enough and you know the market and you know how sellers are behaving and then you know your competition because in a town of 800, you know your real estate competition and the ones you don't know super well, your grandma's got stories about them going back years. So you know all the pieces which allows you to write better offers. And if you're a newer realtor watching this or listening to this, make up some clients, imagine things and sit here and generate fake paperwork to get the muscle memory because that is a beautiful way to talk about something that had to be learned and not just by you as a newly minted realtor. Those of us that had been in a long time had not been in multiple offers for years, had to relearn that skill, had to relearn things that we had not messed with, the escalation clauses. And then the love letters came up and then we got the love letters knocked out for all their fair housing violations. And so all of these things, we're doing this all the time and I'm with you. I didn't like it. I like a normalized market where multiple offers is 3 offers. That's the kind of multiple offers I like, not 48.

Well, exactly. And I feel that, you know, the one reason I really don't miss that time is one, you would— I mean, the buyers are just so disappointed all of the time because they would love the house and they would miss out and we'd be $50,000 over asking with a big appraisal gap and still nothing was working. And it was really super rewarding when they finally got into a house that was wonderful. But they were making— I just don't love the decisions that my buyers were— they felt forced to make as far as paying over or waiving contingencies, you know, which I never recommended waiving inspection contingencies. But in any event, I feel like buyers are able to spend a little more time and make some— make some more educated decisions, I guess I would say, than rushing into a house just because it was the one that fit in their in their budget.

Oh, I love that you bring that up. I do think a lot of agents fell into the trap of, but everybody else is waiving contingencies. Everybody else is waiving inspections and they forgot to talk the buyer through it and say, look, here's the risks. You're gonna have to sign this right here that says I told you about the risk. Because our buyers were very swept up in the frenzy at that time. Which I think they're all pretty still happy about because they got interest rates that don't exist right now. And even if rates do come back down, it's not going to go back down to 3s. It may come down to 6. We're at, let's see, the day we're recording this, we're at 6.85. So I think maybe it goes back to 6, but it was, it was crazy. And I love that you also mentioned there is no normal market. So when you're looking at your own trajectory and you're looking at being in business with grandparents and what a blessing that is. Yeah. Is the goal that they want you to take this over and they will be able to spend less time working and more time traveling, or what's the, what's the family outlook?

Yeah. So like you said, I'm very blessed. I, I say often that I, and this is not like a brag on myself, it's a, a gratefulness statement, is I feel like I was at least 5 to 10 years ahead. Having that, that start because I got to learn from pros that have been doing it a very long time. I give one example before I get into the family aspect of it. One example is my second set of buyers I ever had. They wanted to go look at a subdivision and it was super affordable homes. They were so excited and I was printing off my docs and my grandma says, well, where are you going to go show a house today? And I told her such and such subdivision and she said, no, you're not. I said, okay, why? She said, that subdivision was built on top of a mine. You will not sell a house in that subdivision. Literally 2 years later, the subdivision started sinking into a sinkhole. I'm not kidding. So I was like, wow, that was, that was very valuable.

I mean, I was thinking radon and arsenic and the mercury situations that happen around mines, but it literally was sinking back down into the depression.

Yep, quite literally. So big lawsuit, big drama, horrible situation for the people that bought houses there. But yeah, so that was, that was amazing. That was her first like, nope, you're not gonna do that. So it's awesome to have that. I mean, she's been in— and I live in a town of 800 people, but the city I work in most often is much bigger. Um, so I do have—

you're in South Dakota, tell me what bigger is to you.

It's Rapid City. If you're familiar with that. So we have two cities in South Dakota that are bigger. Sioux Falls is the biggest, and then Rapid City, which basically encompasses all of the Black Hills. Um, so yeah, I don't know, I'd have to Google the Rapid City, uh, population. I want to say 80,000, but let me check. 3, 2, 1. Yep, about 80,000.

But look, you knew the answer before you looked it up, so now you can say, hey, self, I knew something.

Yes.

So as far as family though, so As you, before you jump into your family thing, we gotta drive that home. She knew things that you would never have known because your brain wasn't baked in real estate for all the years prior that hers was. And y'all, that's the power of a mentor. It's not that they're telling you what to do, it's that they're a resource for you. And so she wasn't telling you how to manage the buyer. She was telling you something that was absolutely critical for them to know. Because she'd been there and you had not. So if you don't have a mentor, you're going to have to go find one and you might not have a grandma. Now you're thinking, well, Leigh, you had your dad and Cheyenne, you have grandma and you got your pawpaw too. Go to your local association of realtors. That's where you'll find a lot of seasoned agents that they volunteer and they give back because there's a civic responsibility around real estate. But you'll find somebody that's been in the business 30, 35, 40 years. And they would love to take you to lunch and tell you some things that you would not know otherwise. So you get outta your comfort zone, go find your own relationships. Now I'll let you jump into the family side, but I had to jump on that cuz it's just the perfect encapsulation of the power of a mentor.

I would like to add to that too. I wish that there was a rule that you had to mentor under someone for a certain number of years, like a minimum. Of 2 years because I often tell people, like if they ask me if they should get into real estate or how they should do it, and I tell them you have to have a mentor. There are so many things that you don't know when you're fresh and you go to your classes and they teach you the basic laws, like they teach you how to get your license basically. And there is so much to know about actually doing the job and how to not get yourself sued or in trouble that you won't learn in class. You have to learn from someone who's been through it and who has lived it. And it's really easy to think you know everything when you get started because, you know, you watch HGTV and you're like, oh, it's super simple. I'm just going to get started right away. All I got to do is show these buyers 3 houses and they're going to pick one. It's fine. And they're not going to have any problems or negotiations or trouble or disagreements with the seller. Anyway, I wish there was a rule.

And they never have an inspection on house hunters. We got to point that out.

Yeah, ever. Yeah, that's a whole thing. But, um, I do wish that there was a requirement for mentorship, you know, as they, they have it in almost every other profession. And this is a very important job. It's very important what we do and how we, we help people get into homes that, oh my gosh, that's their biggest financial decision that they are likely ever going to make. And you need to make sure that you are not only confident, but just make sure that you know what you're doing, that you know what the rules are, that you know how to protect your clients. Because, man, it's important. And without my grandma and the mentors that I have, I just feel like I could have been sued so many times and not even knew it.

Right. That's absolutely true. And I hope every real estate commissioner watching and listening to this will take that to heart. And Cheyenne will be your case witness on getting this through our commission level, because I think all 50 states should be discussing this. You make the point so perfectly. So if you're in real estate and you're listening to this podcast or watching it and thinking, man, I need some more Leigh Thomas Brown answers in my life. Well, guess what, friends? I have a new program that is launching right now called Answers.RealEstate, where I will give you every bit of insight I have to help you grow your real estate business, help you better respond to consumers to provide a more excellent real estate experience so that the next time you land on crazy shit in real estate, you'll have a better solution to whatever you ran into. Answers.RealEstate. There are monthly plans available. You will love it. Get your coaching, sign up with me today. So tell us about the family trajectory. I know a lot of my viewers and listeners are in and around the family aspect of real estate because it's a very common thing in our business. If you grow up around this business, you're exposed to entrepreneurism at its most visible place, which I think is real estate. And it's hard to work a jobby job when you've seen somebody make good money or no money or good money or no money or good money or no money, and then just fall in love with the cycle. So are you gonna inherit the business? Is your grandmother looking at you as her exit strategy or have you discussed that?

Yeah. So when she invited me to join her team and she had worked on me for a couple of years when I was in college, she was like, well, maybe you should take some classes and I always kind of knew in the back of my head it was an option because she had offered it to me. I remember in like, I think 5th grade, I did a presentation on I wanted to be a real estate agent when I grew up. Uh, and I wish I could find it. I know, I wish I could find it. I remember standing up with my, my PowerPoint or whatever we had then, slides, and talking about it with the little RE/MAX balloon on my PowerPoint.

So Diane's mom, I know you're out there, find that presentation, I beg of you, please. It belongs on YouTube.

Leigh Thomas Brown. It would be so cute. But, um, so I always kind of knew it was an option and I went to college for communications and public relations because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And I thought that I didn't really wanna take many science and math classes, so I just did that. And it's, uh, it's been a great, uh, background for me. So I graduated from college and I worked in the economic development world for about 3 and a half years. And that was really cool in a lot of ways, but it was, like, gosh, I just felt like I was working super, super hard and I had to answer to two different boards and there was never really like a trajectory for growth in the position I was in. And so my grandma again said, hey, you know, we're maybe gonna retire someday. We'd love for you to start taking your classes. And so she helped me take my classes. She supported me throughout that whole process and I took the classes at night while I was still working full-time. And then just kind of jumped in, got my license and jumped in with two feet. Never part-timed it, went full in. But I was young. I mean, gosh, I— this was 6 and a half years ago, so I was in my early 20s, freshly married, no kids yet. So I didn't have a lot of risk as far as jumping in with two feet financially, which I was very blessed. I wasn't, you know, I didn't have a family to support at that time, but thankfully Things went well.

Well, you said you were blessed. I would say you are blessed. Yeah. Put tense on that, sister. Fix that tense.

Absolutely.

So I'll point out to you, if you're thinking, but I will, I wish I had a grandma, you can. So when I tell you to go to that local association and find that 40-year realtor, they may not have a grandchild in the business and you might just get adopted. There are a lot of agents that are at the time in life when they would like to let go of most of their real estate business except for a few past clients. And they would love if there was somebody that could come in with them, learn from them, show an excellence in customer service, and basically inherit their business from them. Those relationships are out there if you just go find it. And I mean, I'm with you. I would, I don't think I would've survived in real estate without my dad. Now maybe I would have, but I don't think my career would look the same. Because he poured into me and I was willing to accept it, just like your grandma poured into you and you were willing to accept it. It's definitely a two-way street. So I've got to ask you about the, the craziest thing you've seen in real estate in your 6.5 years on way to year 7. You've seen obviously, well, 3 different market conditions, 'cause you saw the pre-COVID market, the COVID craziness, and then the stabilization after COVID. You've watched your state go from where is South Dakota to a hotspot to some normalization there. You're working a tiny town near a moderately sized city. You've got all these different angles in just 6 and a half years. So if somebody were to ask you, hey Cheyenne, tell me what real estate has done, or what have you seen? What's the story you give them?

Oh, what real estate has done here is one thing I wish I had a better, like, thumb I could put on it is people ask all the time, how's the market? And what I tell them is our market tends to be a little unpredictable. Thankfully for us, we've remained stable. Like, we had the crazy COVID up and then we just kind of stabilized down, but our prices are staying level. I would say the craziest things that I saw during that wild time were people that waived inspections and then later found out there were serious issues, or sellers just putting their house on the market and not doing any repairs and like leaving a horrible mess during a final walkthrough. Like I had a final walkthrough where there were like, there were, there was garbage everywhere. The cupboards were full of just disgusting, I mean, just horrible. There were empty beer cans all over the backyard, dog poop all over the place. Like it was, It was disgusting. I even— can I say this? I don't know, we have to maybe edit it. I was walking around the backyard and I didn't put my shoes back on yet, and I stepped in a wet dog poop, and it was horrible.

It was horrible. So gross.

And so, I mean, just a real thing. And then my— so I'm sitting there at the final walkthrough, and I call listing agent, I'm like, what are we going to do about this? And like, well, Seller's moved out, buyers needed a house. They were basically gonna be homeless. So paid a cleaner to come in and take care of that. But just those were some of the crazy things that happened. Just like a small snippet of things that went on. A lot of sight unseen purchases, which always makes me anxious. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Always, always that ha— I had probably 10 during that time and people from California, Colorado, Those are the big ones, mostly that did those sight unseen purchases. And thankfully I had no unhappy clients when they moved to South Dakota. But I was a little like, I had that in my back, the back of my brain, like, hopefully they're going to like it, even though I had them sign a virtual showing disclosure and that they realize they're seeing it on a camera. One of the craziest things I would say that happened like during that time was in my personal life too. So My husband got hurt in 2019 and I got pregnant not long after. And so during all of this, I was freshly pregnant and working and my very brave, very strong husband was going through a pretty serious injury, which he has now come out of. But it was just kind of balancing, like working, figuring out how to work in real estate at that time, figuring out how to become a mom and becoming a mom in real estate is, is very interesting because especially when you're, you're young and new, you just will, you know, make your time work no matter what for your clients. And I didn't really have many boundaries. Definitely the new buyer's regulations has helped with, with the pop-up type of situations, but just kind of figuring out how to navigate basically becoming a mom, becoming an adult, becoming a better realtor kind of all at the same time.

Well, I mean, it forces you to grow up in so many different ways, but it is the blessing of real estate that it is a giant financial commitment, but it is such an emotional financial commitment. I know I'm speaking on behalf of everybody who's ever been pregnant in real estate. Your buyers and your sellers will give you so much grace. And it was one of the best experiences of my life was how people were actively looking out for me when I was showing houses, when I was super duper pregnant and they were thoughtful about it. There were only a couple of occasional jerks, but that's just life. So I think it's a, it's a testament to real estate in that there is good in people. Meanwhile, COVID showed us how selfish some people can be with that seller you mentioned, because they did have that attitude of, well, if you don't like it, what you gonna do? And I couldn't stand that. That level of selfishness, but I think hopefully that's going to moderate itself back out. I can be hopeful, right?

Yeah, I agree. Well, and I, I totally agree with you as far as people giving you grace. I was really nervous because I thought, oh, you know, I'm not going to be able to work the same hours, and are people going to be okay with me, you know, being pregnant? And right after I had my baby, there were a couple of times where somebody wanted to see a house. I was like, I have to bring my kid, is that okay? Which is fine when she was in her little carrier. They were like, bring the baby, we'll hold the baby. You know, that was great. Now that she's 4 and sassy, it's a little harder.

I don't know. When my kids were that age, they were pointing out things like stairs and kitchens. And one of my past clients, she looks, whenever my son's birthday comes up and I make my obligatory Facebook post, she says, I remember when Timmy helped me pick out my house. Cause he was about 4 at the time. And I melt and she melts and he rolls his eyes because he's 18. So it's, um, it's the coolest thing about this business. As long as we communicate, right? When you tell your clients, I may have to bring the baby instead of, um, don't tell them and you just show up with the kid, then they feel—

wow.

So it's again, goes back to your level of professionalism and the communication while you try to make things work. And that's why you're successful at 6 and a half years in. And hopefully we'll have another 30 years to go in this business and taking that grandma's legacy and making it beautiful.

I hope so too. One story, uh, just to piggyback off what you said, my grandma tells about me when I was little is she said she had kind of this tough client. Like he never seemed like he liked anything. Nothing was ever, you know, up to his standard. And I went to a showing with her. She was watching me that day and she opened the door and I was like, wow, look at this kitchen. And Wow, look at this yard. And she said that was the first time she saw him be happy. And then he bought the house and she's like, I think you were meant to do this job.

Okay. That's so cute. Because obviously that was that he had the Grinch heart and his heart grew 3 times that day.

I think so.

Oh, so Cheyenne, if somebody wants to reach out to you to find out about real estate in South Dakota, or they want to talk about economic development, or they want to talk about family business, or they want to find out about your opinions on apprenticeship, they just want to reach out to you for any of those reasons, what is the best platform or way for them to find you?

Yeah, so I would love to connect. Um, my Instagram is probably the quickest way to get a hold of me. It's @CheyenneSummer605, and it's 605 because we have one zip code, or one, uh, area code for our little area here. And, um, I also host a podcast. I have a really big heart for supporting moms in real estate as they get into real estate or try to transition their business as they become moms. So I have a podcast called The Real Estate Mama Collective, and you can find that on Apple Podcasts. I'm working on Spotify now. And anytime, just reach out. Like I said, Instagram's the number one.

I—

we have a Facebook page, our Soderquist Team Facebook page, and would just love to connect with anyone, and I super, super appreciate the time to chat with you, Leigh. I've learned so much from you over the years, so bless you for everything that you put out.

Well, thank you for being on the show. And of course, for all my little listeners out there that are riding down the road on the way to a showing and you're thinking, I love her, I know, all of her contact information is in the show notes for this episode. So when you go in to make a nice comment, you say something below here to elevate Cheyenne, Go reach out to her and continue to build real estate networks with good people. So thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so glad that you spent some time with us today and excited to check out your new podcast too.

Thank you, Leigh.

All right, guys, hit the bell to subscribe and make sure you come back. We'll see you next time. By the way, friends, don't miss my brand new coaching program at answers.realestate, where you can have access to Leigh Thomas Brown, submit your questions, have them answered. Meet like-minded professionals, have an entire library to help you build your business no matter what happens in the market. Get signed up today. I promise you'll be glad you did. As always, I'm so super thrilled that you joined in for more crazy shit. And if you're a realtor, investor, inspector, lender, or just a regular human being who happens to have an unbelievable story that you need to tell the world about, please or just need to one-up the story you just heard, then make sure to DM me on Instagram @leithomasbrown or tweet me @leebrown, or frankly, any social network where you hang out. I'm there. And if you had some fun, then you totally want to subscribe so you don't miss out on any future episodes.