What’s Happening to American Farmland Right Now

The sellers signed an amendment for all those terms. We handed it off to the buyer who was a broker representing himself, and he then emailed back the signed version to the title company saying, here's the signed extension, and had handwritten additional provisions in there on a seller-signed amendment.

And did he say he's not an attorney, so he's writing amendments without being an attorney?

Oh, it was—

I'm Leigh Thomas Brown. This is Real Talk with Leigh Thomas Brown. Today, I'm so excited to share with y'all Johnny Clemmy, who has written an amazing book about American family farmland. So if you are interested in American agriculture or land or land auction, or you have a family farm, you're connected to one, this is right in your wheelhouse. And if you're not in any of those spaces, it's still in your wheelhouse because he's a delightful human. And so you get to learn some things today. So get your notepad, get your cup of coffee, and I'll see you on the other side. There's an article about a family in Virginia who is currently fighting a 115-mile-long high-voltage transmission line that's going to go through their land and the adjoining farmland for data centers.

Yep.

And so they're trying to figure out what they're going to do because they don't apparently have a voice in that. So then I'm reading this, like, you know, you want to preserve American family farmland, and then you have the government stepping in to take away opportunity from people. And so my brain is in a million directions, but anyway, yeah, welcome to my world. So Johnny, I'm so glad to have you on the podcast this morning. And I'm talking about Johnny's book, which is available, I guess, everywhere books are, Amazon and your website and all that.

Yep, absolutely.

And you could probably go to johnnyklim.com. Is that right?

Americanfamilyfarmland.com.

Americanfamilyfarmland.com. Y'all can't have my copy because it's already got some notes written in the margins, but Tell our audience who you are, where you're located, and give them a little bit of a thumbnail sketch of you. Of course, you and I met at the Certified Auctioneers Institute, but we could have met at the National Land Conference because now I know you're a land broker in addition to being an auctioneer. So we have a lot of parallel lives here. So tell the world about your, your life.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor. Greatly appreciate it. I, I love your candor on the conversations that you have and it's great to be here. My name is Johnny Clemme. I grew up on a farm in West Central Indiana. I own a farm today with my better half, Carrie, uh, one county away from where our original family farm is at. I've spent most of my life in agriculture. I authored the book American Family Farmland. It came out last September, which is just a passion project of mine. I do a lot of mediation work, consulting work with families who are going through the often, you know, difficult once in a lifetime decision of what do we do next with the family farm. Sometimes that's reimagining the family farm, creating a new legacy. Occasionally that means, you know, a thoughtful sale when necessary. But my passion is for preserving the family farm. It's a challenging thing to do in today's day and age. But, you know, I grew up on the farm. I live on the farm today, and it truly is my passion.

So what kind of farm did you, do you have now? Are you row crops? Are you pasture land? What, what are you dealing in?

Um, so we live about 25 minutes southwest of Purdue University, which is West Lafayette, Indiana, about halfway between Chicago and Indianapolis. Where we live, we're about a half mile from the Wabash River. So, you know, we don't really have great farmland soils where we're at, but, you know, we've got about 40 acres of woods and riparian buffers. We've got, you know, some tillable acres. I mean, Carrie grows a big garden, you know, to feed ourselves and the kids and, and their families as well. And so we're not really into row crops anymore, although we plant a lot of different crops more for just wildlife management and personal enjoyment. But we do plant some, some soybeans just with a little side project that I'm working on. But, you know, primarily we're just in a space where our family farm is more of a place of, you know, get-togethers, recreation, friends and family to gather at this point in time.

Well, kudos to Carrie for making sure your family can eat your own vegetables because I was reading an article this week that they think the increase in lung cancer is primarily coming from pesticides. And so the people who eat only greenery from grocery stores are the most subject to all the pesticides, which is causing the lung cancer. I can't go down any more rabbit holes. It's so bad for my brain. But I want to ask you a question though. You said you have timber on your property. Is it under timber contract?

No, it's not actually. You know, we were fortunate enough to buy this particular patch of ground, you know, a long time ago and the previous owner had already timbered it, you know, but I fell in love with the place. I mean, I knew I was just trusting my gut, you know, at the time I was trying to find a farm to sort of set down roots and, you know, it just, it spoke to me. We do plant a lot of trees. I mean, we have those thoughts in mind, you know, we plant a lot of oak, we've got some walnut, those kind of things, but no, No timber contracts, but where we live, we do have a lot of neighbors though that have some timber contracts. Our area of Indiana does have some timber, but most of the, you know, the timber and timber contracts are Southern Indiana.

So make sure that you watch my episode where I was ranting about the EUDR, the European Union Deforestation Regulations, which are already having devastating effects on timber here because I'm very wound up about what's happening with land because As you know, it's, it's not just the dirt and it's not just real estate. It's, it's how it's a part of life. And I think that city people don't experience that in the same way because maybe they haven't had the dirt under their fingernails. And it's, it's a connection to the dirt, which is why I love how you're talking to the American family farmers, because that's who's vanishing right now. We've watched it in North Carolina. Where you've had so much big money come in and roll up the small family farms. But I grew up on 400 acres. I mean, that's a small farm by Midwestern terms. That was very big in North Carolina terms, except for the eastern part of the state with the big tobacco. But where we were, that was small and it could sustain a family. It would be very hard to sustain a family in today's environment on 400 acres without all the subsidies and everything else that's gone on. And so the world has changed a ton. And I will say that in the changing world, we've got a big conversation in Cabarrus County where I'm located about conservation. And we had one of our best landowners in the county, and, and I might be their realtor, I love them a lot, but they have 1,600 acres that they've put into conservation easement to keep it from turning into a sea of vinyl houses and concrete. So can you talk a little bit about the conversation about conservation, the conversation around conservation with a farm family, especially considering the thoughtfulness that you put into the finances of the American farm family. And I think that's one of the powerful angles of your book. You're honoring the fact that people can be in a real financial squeeze because there's very little money in farming, but there's heavy emotion in it. And so if you're getting the big dollars from a data center or from D.R. Horton, how do you find a way to look at conservation as an alternative? So can you kind of go in that angle as I've given you like 87 pathways into it, because I can't finish a sentence straight when we talk about this, because it's, it's so big, Johnny. And I think you understand that.

Well, it is big, right? I mean, land and farmland and ranches, I mean, they're a finite resource, right? And there's only so much land to go around. I mean, those, Those adages have not gone away. And, you know, we face these dynamics where population is, you know, growing, urban centers are growing, you know, in our neck of the woods, you know, with more agricultural land. I mean, there is an attention and people are looking at agricultural conservation easements even, you know, and not necessarily just, you know, a timber conservation easement or a wetland conservation easement, but truly putting in an ag conservation easement to say this farm will stay agriculture. It will continue to produce crops and, Yeah, it's, it's top of mind for a lot of families. I mean, you throw in challenging economics, you know, I mean, if you're a row crop farmer, you know, your economics are obviously a lot different than your, if you're a vegetable farmer, you know, that's on the fringe or the edge of an urban area, you know? And so we see what we typically find in these situations, especially with the families that I do a lot of consulting work with is, you know, we have to start with values, right? Because if you start with finances, You're going to hit a wall, right? There may not be enough money to go around. You know, there may be off-farm heirs and farming heirs and how do you manage those dynamics? But, you know, ultimately, you know, these are the conversations that you have to say, what is important to us? Why is it important to us? You know, does this matter to our family to, you know, prevent this farm from being paved over? Yes or no. And if the answer is yes, well, you're going to go down a particular path and have your own set of challenges and opportunities there. And if the answer is no, you know, we just, we want to, we know our kids are going to sell it. Why, you know, we're just, we'll let them deal with it. You know, sometimes that happens too, but you know, a lot of times these families find themselves in a situation where, you know, sometimes passing the farm to the next generation might create more challenges and more problems. And, you know, that, that process, if you're considering succession planning, most families that we work with, successful succession is a long game, right? It can take 7 to 10 years to sort of go through that process. And so I think I hit on some of those points that you're talking about, but I mean, bigger picture, you know, if the family farm is important to you and you care about it deeply, you need to start having these conversations today, not after some sort of an event that causes you to be in a reactive mode instead of a proactive mode.

Well, that's absolutely critical advice right there, because I think we all have this bias in our mind that, We'll deal with it someday. We don't have to worry about it. And forget that kids who inherit things don't all have the same viewpoint. I'm, I can think of, are you an Office fan? Did you watch The Office? Oh yeah. Seriously, my favorite show of all time. Do you remember when Dwight was having to navigate with his two siblings, the inheritance around the farm?

His brother that drives the Mustang and, and his nephew. Yeah.

So you have the one brother wants the land, wants to keep growing beets. The other one wants to go do fancy things. And the sister's like, I ain't got time for all this. It was the perfect encapsulation of what happens to sibling groups. And if you don't have a 7 to 10 year window to figure it out, the bigger question, I would love to hear you give some ideas for where people can find solutions. What happens if the brother who wants to farm doesn't have cash on hand to buy out the other two siblings because they want their piece of the pie. And we know that in estate situations, often there's one sibling at least who just wants cash and they don't care what happens to the rest of y'all. They just want their shares cashed out, but not everybody's able to physically come up with the money. So how do you recommend people approach that from a planning perspective? In an environment where farmers have trouble saving in the first place because the farming commodities market, market is of course so volatile and it's heavily subsidized. And now you've got fertilizer costs going up, everything is moving. So savings becomes a background issue, which is something you have to figure out because the kids are going to get the land one day.

It's not an easy conversation, but fair does not always mean equal, right? I mean, sweat equity is a real thing. How do families define sweat equity is challenging. You know, for some families it is easy, right? For the family that quote unquote still gets together every Sunday for dinner, it's a different conversation. For the family that's spread across the country, you know, with non-farming heirs, it certainly becomes more difficult. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, if you're in a position now where either your kids are going to take over the farm someday or you see yourself in a position where you're soon to inherit this farm, I mean, the conversations may be tough, but you have to speak your mind and your thoughts because the people that sit at your kitchen table cannot read your mind. And we say that a lot, right? And for some families, you know, that I work with, we just can't get together in the same room. Sometimes that's geography, right? Cross-country relatives. But other times it's just, I don't want to have that conversation. I'm not comfortable with it, you know? And so, I would encourage anybody who's, who, who may be, you know, going through this now or who sees it on their horizon. I mean, there are resources out there, you know, whether it's at the university level, a lot of university extension programs, you know, have free resources available. Even in my book, I mean, you can scan a QR code and you can download all of the worksheets that I use with my clients, you know, with families who aren't good at having these conversations. Sometimes we just say, hey, here's your homework. Take this worksheet home. Fill it out, right? They didn't know they were going to get homework when they hired me, but you know, here's your homework, fill this out. And then, you know, sometimes it's my job to share that with the rest of the family members. I mean, for families that have that dynamic, you know, sometimes can get them in the room, but usually it sometimes means we need to have these separate conversations to really identify what's important, what that person's values are, what lens they're looking through, because Like you said, you know, one farm, multiple perspectives, right? Everybody might have an expectation of, I should get my fair share, but mom and dad may say, no, that's not fair because, you know, the daughter or the son has been here farming this farm and putting the time and building this farm and, and fair is not equal. And sometimes that's a hard pill for people to swallow.

So there's just so many complexities to it. And I'm sitting here thinking about you with your worksheets and the, the conversations that you have to replicate, because you may have to talk to this sibling separately from this one, separate from the parents, because they just need to talk to you separately, but you got to give them the same information. And I know that when we talk to the public, you've seen this too. Of course, they're interviewing multiple realtors, multiple brokers, multiple auctioneers. They've been told, go get multiple bids and proposals. What are the top 3 things that you think a farm family should be asking as they're in whatever stage they are about the transition process, whether it's transition through sale or to heirs or to conservation? How do they pick a broker or an auctioneer? What do you wish they would ask you actually?

You know, I think no matter what, you gotta trust your gut. I was just having this conversation with, with somebody who's not my client, right? But, you know, they're, they're in this process. They're a trustee, right? They have a fiduciary responsibility. To maximize value, but at the same time, they're in this interesting position where, you know, the emotions are at play. And I always come back to probably 2 or 3 very common things, themes every time, which is what are your goals, right? And if you can determine what your goals are, then we can reverse engineer to the solution that is best for you and your family. You know, along with that comes timing, right? Because timing is a big part of the outcome, right? I mean, we want to be mindful of dollars and cents and the financial side. And sometimes, you know, the right way to sell the farm is not to just, you know, go to auction and maximize value because we may need to, you know, do a closing in a different calendar year for tax purposes or whatever it happens to be. But I mean, I'm to a point now where, you know, I really like to give my potential clients, you know, sort of here's an expectations list, right? Here's what you can expect of me. What are your expectations? And if I, if I can come into that first meeting and they can tell me what their expectations or their goals are, you know, I think that's where every family really needs to be, you know, and it, can they all get aligned on the same page? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I mean, expectations are critical to the success, no matter if we're handing the torch to the next generation or if we're saying, hey, we're going to list this farm or we're going to auction this farm.

Okay. So it sounds like you're interviewing your potential clients more than you expect to be interviewed. My question would be, what do you wish the client would ask anybody they're interviewing?

I guess it depends on—

well, I'll break it down for you. So we have like 1.5 million realtors in the country. The bulk of them do traditional residential real estate, but they'll know a guy who's got a farm to sell. Who calls them because they trust them. That person has never sold a tract of land. They've never looked at the business aspect of the ag side. Maybe they're not in auctions. They don't understand the auction method, but they will absolutely sit there and say, I can do it because— how about realtors believe in themselves like no other profession does. What do you wish that person who's friends with a traditional realtor would ask them so that they could understand that this is actually a specialty field, that a, a specialist can bring you a different perspective, like you've already mentioned, taxation angles, the timeframe angles. What do you wish they would ask to help them narrow the field a little?

Yeah, I think one of the questions that you could ask is, have you ever conducted any transactions where this was a once in a lifetime transaction? Right. And when you, and we talk about that a lot with our clients, right? I mean, because again, if we're selling the family farm, that's been in the family for multiple generations, this is a once in a lifetime transaction. I don't take that lightly. My team does not take that lightly, nor should the person who owns that farm. Right. And I mean, part of that vetting process is, does your broker understand that? Does your auctioneer understand that? Right. Because, We're really selling more than just the soil, right? I mean, we're selling something much bigger. Again, some people don't necessarily understand that who didn't grow up on a farm or grow up on the ranch, you know, but even if you're a buyer, you know, those are the things that you're dreaming of and trying to accomplish is to build this, you know, this asset to grow family wealth. And I think that's a great question to ask, you know, I mean, how many once in a lifetime transactions have you been involved with, you know? And I think it's also important to just be blunt too. I mean, how many family farms have you sold? You know, how many ranches have you sold? Whatever that happens to be. And even if it's timber, right? I mean, you want somebody who has experience. I'm not against giving the new person an opportunity, right? But it's also, as a broker or an auctioneer, it's also your fiduciary responsibility to work in and stay in your lane, right? And if you need to bring in an expert, you bring in an expert, right? And if all you're doing it for is the money, I don't think you're going to be in business very long.

At least we hope not. I mean, you're making the perfect point there. And if you're in real estate watching this, just hear what he said. You have a chance to go get the business, but you better bring somebody with you to stopgap experience that you don't yet have. And I look at this in terms of Getting out of your lane into another lane should come while you're in the passenger seat and somebody else is driving. That is great advice. And I love that phrase about it being a once in a lifetime transaction. I mean, yeah, that puts the whole perspective into why it's, it's so heavy. It's so multifaceted. And frankly, these are very seldom quick transactions unless something's gone haywire with the courts or bankruptcy or trustees. Those are a different ballgame altogether.

Yeah. And even those still take time. I mean, I'm working through one right now, court-ordered sale, you know, 600+ acres of prime Indiana farmland. And, you know, it's a lot of work to get to the finish line. We've been working with the family for, you know, a really long time, over a year, you know, working through this process. But yeah, I mean, I'm working on a farm right now, been in a family for multiple generations, and I was contacted by a residential real estate broker because the farm does have a residence on it. And she said, this family called me, but I have never sold land before. I can, I've been selling houses for 40 years and it's been an incredible experience, you know, because she's sharing her knowledge. I'm sharing my knowledge. And ultimately at the end of the day, I mean, this woman, she has just incredible integrity and she's been in business for 40 years because she does the right things for her clients. And here was a perfect example. It's about an 80-acre farm. It's very unique. It's on a very highly sought after creek in this particular county, beautiful timber, all of the things. And she knew better than to just go try to sell it because she didn't know what she was doing. And we partnered on it and we're, we're sharing commissions, but ultimately, you know, we're getting the family to their next chapter in the right method.

Okay. Let's just talk about how that's a way integrity is so seldom defined, Johnny. I mean, when we talk about it, it's normally Oh, you know, I'll do what I'll say I'm gonna do. But here she is saying what she doesn't know to bring in an expert because it's in somebody else's best interest. That is the picture of a professional. And if our organizations on the structural level in real estate were smart, that's the kind of behaviors they would be sharing with the public as what we would like to model is what she has built a career on and what she's not arrogant enough to think is not important. She sees the value of you. And I love that. It's the way things should go. Oh, it's so good.

I still remember the day the phone rang and I looked at my caller ID and, you know, her name is Sally Kerwick and she works for a major, you know, national name brokerage, but she's local and she's been local. And I've talked to her tons of times over the years and we've just had good conversations, you know, and then one day the phone rings and she says, Johnny, I have this opportunity. I don't know what I'm doing with land. I need your help. This family needs help, you know, and I think that was why it was great to meet you at the Certified Auctioneers Institute, because that's a next-level professional auctioneering education. And those are a lot of things that we talk about in our classes, you know, I mean, it is our fiduciary responsibility to do what's in the best interest of our clients. And, you know, that type of mentality and those types of values are really enforced at that level of CAI. And I really appreciate that.

I think we're gonna start the hashtag #BeLikeSally. So Sally, if you happen to see this episode, we wanna be like you. Yeah. Because that is the picture of how all the different angles of real estate can learn how to not just coexist, but collaborate to perform our state responsibility of being the best kind of fiduciary. And so you mentioned the Certified Auctioneers Institute, you were finishing up your journey in that program. I'm at the very beginning of mine. And it was wild to hear all of these people and a lot of them at the very top of their game who have decided to spend this much time and money getting better at the business of auction. And I will just say that what's fascinating to me as somebody who's been in the residential real estate and multifamily and the land side for 26 years. Being new to auction, the regular real estate side talks more about marketing and branding and business generation than they do about the sharing and the collaboration and the depth of the craft. And auction is just a little different because I didn't detect in any of those rooms the kind of an attitude where somebody's at the top, you're like, I want to take them out. It was more of, Oh, how do I help you? How do I share? I mean, you got world champion auctioneers. You've got people running insanely busy practices like the McCurdys out of Wichita. And just to, to learn from each other brings you home to say, okay, how do I serve my clients at the next level with 87 pages of notes and I can barely get 'em implemented, but I can't be the only one with that problem.

No, but you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, I mean, our, even the culture, just even at our own company here, I mean, we are a real estate brokerage and an auction firm, but I mean, our culture is a rising tide lifts all ships. And that theme is very evident in the National Auction Association and more particular in that CAI program that everyone there, everybody's there to learn, right? Everybody wants to be more successful, no matter how they define that, right? For some people that is, how do I exit my business, you know, and retire successfully? And not trip up and fail there. And for other people, it's, hey, I'm a first generation here and I'm a go-getter and how do I grow my business? You know, and for other people, it's how do I lead? How do I serve? And I think that unique combination, you know, it's one, it's healthy, right? And two, you know, it also expands your referral network. It's just interesting. I mean, you know, ever since I've written this book, I mean, my phone rings from across the country and, you know, sometimes for a family, it is just, hey, Hey, I need to talk to somebody in Texas or Arkansas or whatever it is. And now I have this network of people that I, one, I know that I like and I, and I trust that I know I can pick up the phone call and say, hey, you need to talk to somebody locally. I wish I could help you. And here is that person. And, you know, that goes a long way too.

Well, and it makes a huge difference because you can know really great people, but when you meet somebody that's spending this kind of money and this kind of time, in the business, own the business, that's different than somebody who does a good job and isn't completely pouring back into it. So it's a, it's a next level kind of a relationship. And that, that is the, the good thing and the bad thing about having a very strong and helpful book about American family farmland is that you can't personally serve everybody that reads this book. So you have to have that network so that when somebody calls you, they get the Johnny level of service. So before I let you go, I want to know in your time in and around real estate, what's the wildest scenario you've seen where you still can't believe you got stuck in the middle of it? And it can be good, bad, indifferent. Give us a little bit of a story about an Indiana real estate life.

Oh gosh. Well, I mean, I primarily deal in family farms, but you know, we have, you know, I've got a buyer broker on my team, so, you know, I'll take listings that I wouldn't, you know, normally take. I mean, I'm fortunate and I'm very blessed in that regard that I can turn down business where I'm at in my career, but I've got a buyer broker on my team and he's younger, you know, he's been licensed for a little over a year, but he's got great work ethic. He's great at the details, you know, he wants to learn, he wants to get better. And we recently took a listing and, you know, it was a 13-acre, you know, piece wooded ground with a freshwater stream running through it. It sits adjacent to an actual stream that just bubbles out of the earth 24/7. So year-round stream and a swimming hole, you know, and it's like, oh, I wanted it too. But you know, perfect. Oh yeah. Yeah. Butts up against a beautiful farm. It's like a funnel for deer and wildlife. All checks, all the boxes. And this is wild. I mean, this just happened, but we, we accepted an offer full price where everybody was excited about it. And then it just started to get a little odd. It was after the contract was signed, you know, then it was like, well, you know, when they, you know, when they leave all those, that personal property there, I'd like them to put it over here. You know, I was like, well, wait a minute. You didn't write it. And mind you, this person was a broker and they wrote the contract. There was no language about personal property in the contract. And, and so that was kind of the first little red flag. It was kind of, he made some assumptions, I guess, you know, and then And then a week later it was, hey, you know, you know, now I need 3% of the commission. You know, it's like, well, you know, one, you're a broker, you wrote the offer yourself. You know, I don't have an agency relationship with you. We don't have a written, you know, buyer agency agreement. So, you know, but professional to professional, I'd be happy to give you a referral fee. Okay. Like, let's, I'll work with you. Right. I mean, I don't want the deal to fall through for something silly. If I got to throw my hat in the ring, I'll throw my hat in the ring. So that happened and then we had to do an extension. Title underwriter and title company found an issue on the survey and there was a gap and a little, little gap overlay, nothing major. It was just, hey, this description needs cleaned up by a surveyor and we're going to have to quitclaim this 0.005 of an acre to the neighbor because there's this just historical gap. It was an area of, you know, rural area that never really been surveyed for a lot of years and the modern survey found an issue. So we agreed to extend the closing for 30 days so the sellers could, at their expense, hire the surveyor back, get it corrected, pay to have the quitclaim deed done, quitclaim it to the neighbor, clear title. Let's go to closing. And we all agreed to that verbally. The sellers signed an amendment for all those terms. We handed it off to the buyer who was a broker representing himself. And when we got, he then emailed back the signed version to the title company saying, here's the signed extension and had handwritten additional provisions in there on a seller-signed amendment.

And did it say he's not an attorney, so he's writing amendments without being an attorney?

Oh, it was, oh gosh. And I took this to the founder of our company. I mean, we've been in business, you know, we're just shy of 50 years in business. And I took this to the founder of our company, Ed, and I explained to this, I just, I called him, I'm like, have you ever seen anything like this, Ed? And of course he did his little, you know, classic chuckle. And I was like, well, he's either getting ready to tell me a story or he's going to say, this is a new one for me. And so, and that just happened, you know, 30 days ago. That was wild. I've never experienced that in my entire career, you know, and, but But then as it turns out, you know, we did a little more due diligence, talked to our attorney, you know, we, we discovered an expired, you know, broker's company license on the other side of the table. And it was just a weird situation. My clients were as thrilled as they could be to have that mutual release of purchase agreement signed.

I mean, I guess if he didn't have a broker's license because it was expired, he wasn't violating the law by doing his own legal amendment, right?

Well, it was interesting because his license number was on there too, and it was just really odd. So, you know, that was a wild story.

You know, it didn't say active license number. It just said license numbers. He just gave you a historic license number.

Yeah, I guess so. So, I mean, that just happened. I mean, you know, that from a, from a contract standpoint and just, you know, sort of a WTF moment that just happened, you know, but you know what, it's a good cautionary tale though on why OnX and LandGlide and LandID are wonderful tools.

Tools, but they are never as good as a professional surveyor.

Well, yeah, absolutely. And it just comes back to full circle too. I mean, it is, you know, hey, if your gut is speaking to you and there's some red flags or something doesn't seem right, you know, you know, use some caution, exercise some caution. You know, you're always going to run into some roadblocks or some, you know, hiccups on real estate transactions are not always going to be bread and butter gravy, but you know, that's Those are those learning opportunities though. I mean, that's really what those are. I mean, those are opportunities to slow down and go, okay, I personally would have never done that. This person chose to do that, but what can I learn here? What could I maybe take back to my own team to share in that experience? You know, something to be mindful of and, and, and just learn and grow. I mean, I, I, we're all humans, you know, we make mistakes. We're not perfect, but you know, at our company and sort of our ethos is, you know, hey. If you do make a mistake, you own up to it, you correct it, you move forward, right? But, you know, we're always in sort of this continuing, continual learning mindset. How can we continue to improve, you know, both professionally and personally? Because that's how we serve our families, our friends, and our clients best.

And that's just generally good life advice. If you make a mistake, own it, fix it, move forward, and then you could also have a successful career like you have, Johnny. So if somebody wants to reach out to you, how do they find you? How do they find this book? How do they get into your circles? Is it by the QR code that's in here if they buy it?

Uh, yeah. I mean, you can buy the book pretty much anywhere a book is sold online. You know, if you prefer to support, you know, maybe an organization that is into conservation or agricultural conservation, you can go to the AcresUSA website, buy from their library. If Amazon is easier for you or Barnes Noble, go to amazon.com. But if you want sort of a deeper dive, my website is americanfamilyfarmland.com. A little bit more about me, you know, my philosophy on, on life and land and the family farm. And that, that's the best place to reach out.

Well, I'm so grateful to have met you in person at the CAI event, and I'm grateful for what you've put together that really is good information and I mean, as a farm kid, this speaks to my soul because I, I miss my family farm. I'm just glad I was old enough to remember it the way that it was. So thank you for being an ambassador for the best of America and for what you're doing for your clients as well.

Well, thank you so much. It's been an honor to be on here with you, and I feel the same way. It was great to meet you in person in Indiana, in my stomping grounds, and I look forward to continuing to follow along with your journey and whoever the our next guests are.

Well, I guess I'll see you at Conference and Show in July, right?

That's the plan. Yeah.

Let's go. All right, friends, all of Johnny's contact information, including the link to AcresUSA to buy the book, are in the show notes for this episode. Say something nice in the comments, like, be like Sally, hit the bell to subscribe, and most importantly, come back and we'll see you next time. Well, friends, if that episode made you laugh, think, or shout, oppa, stink! Go ahead and smash that like button, hit subscribe, and turn on that little tiny bell so you don't miss the next round of Real Talk with Leigh Thomas Brown. You can also find me on your favorite podcast app. So whether you're in the car, at the gym, or dodging your inbox, I've got you covered. And hey, if you've got a story too wild to keep to yourself, send me a message because you just might be the perfect next guest. Thanks for hanging out with me. I'll see you next time, right here where real estate gets real.