Why Most Agents Stay Broke (And Don’t Fix It)

I'm Leigh Thomas Brown. This is Real Talk with Leigh Thomas Brown. Today I've got Dan Reshawn with us, and he is an author and a coach, and he's been a real estate agent, and he's waited tables, and he's done all kinds of things. But if you're experiencing a gap between what you're doing right now and the results you want, he's going to have some insights for you. So I hope you'll enjoy this conversation, and I'll see you on the other side. Well, tell my audience who Dan is, where you're located, give them a little bit of a thumbnail sketch so we can dig into our conversation.

Okay. My name is Dan Roshon. I got my real estate license in 2007. Had my first 6 months was sucked. That was back when, you know, there was like the headlines were doom and gloom, foreclosure galore, and it was not a great time to get started. Took me 6 months to do my first deal, April 2008, and then April 2009, I bought the brokerage that I worked for. So I had a lot of success in those 12 months. That was a Keller Williams Realty franchise. I owned that for 10 years, sold it 2018, and since then I've gotten into coaching and and, and now I'm sort of in like this in-between point where I'm helping people out even outside the real estate industry. And what I do is I help people to be able to get consistent, predictable income. So even though it is more than just showing up 5 or 7 days a week, there is a predictable path that you could follow. And I outlined that in my upcoming book, Teach to Sell, of how people could be able to get a consistent, predictable income.

So anyway, I was curious, tell us what you were doing before you decided to dive into real estate and then why did you decide to get into an unpredictable job at a time when, I mean, 2007, we still didn't know how bad it was gonna get because it had just started the upheaval. So talk to us a little bit about that time in your life.

Yeah, I didn't have a foresight of the economic environment. You know, I didn't have the awareness of what I was entering into. So I was really moving away from pain more than moving towards desire. And at the time I was waiting tables, I was recently a recovering alcoholic. And I had a lot of, I had a lot of, a lot of challenges that, that, that I was moving away from. And I knew that I wanted to help people achieve their dreams, solve their problems. I was really just looking for a solution. And I looked at different franchises and realized I needed about a quarter million dollars or so to buy a franchise. And I didn't have it at the time. That's what got me into real estate sales. So I don't know if it was a mastermind of even understanding what I was getting myself into. I didn't know.

I didn't have a regular that was in real estate. What was your exposure to the business? Because in 2007, HGTV was out there, but it wasn't a hardcore obsession like it is for people now.

Yeah. I started maybe investing as a waiter. I was investing probably 10 years before then. And so I had, I had real estate experience, but not, well, I had sales experience as well. Right. My sales experience was as a waiter. Right. And I mean, I've been a salesperson since I've been 12 years old. I was selling since I was 8 years old. My first business got shut down by my principal because I was selling those little bubblegum balls. I'd buy them for 50 cents a pack. There was 10 of them. I'd sell them for 25 cents a bubblegum. That was my first business, 8 years old, and my principal shut me down. So I did have sales experience, right? But I would say that it was really more like I had real estate experience. Like I knew how to put deals together. I knew that there's wealth in real estate. And probably at the time I was probably more creating cash flow than wealth. Where I was doing flips or wholesales and that type of stuff. And one day we're scooping butters in the ramekins, getting ready for the shift. My buddy Cribbin says, hey, Bill Cribbin. He says, hey, Roshon. He says, have you ever considered being a salesperson? And I hadn't. We did have a regular who was a lender who would like do everyone's, you know, everyone's refinances and finances. That was about the only real connection I had in the real estate industry. And interesting enough, I tried to do business with that regular through the years, and I don't know what happened in his world. We never did business. Together. So again, it was just looking at what are the options and I could spend around $3,000, a 60-hour class, and then I have an unlimited opportunity and it just seemed like the easiest option.

So you thought brokerage was the way to make money instead of selling? Because that's kind of hilarious. Every broker that's watching this is like, dude, it's a good way to lose all your money.

No, that was ego-driven. That was not business-minded. Uh, so that was 18 months after I got my license.. And I had our franchise, it was a Keller Williams Realty franchise and it was going out of business. And I had two agents who owned another Keller Williams franchise that came up to buy it. By this time, 18 months in, I was the top agent in the brokerage and they'd asked for my support initially. And I said, hey, well, I'd love to be able to support you. And, you know, is there an opportunity for it to be, to be an investor? I think they were thinking like 5% or whatever. And so initially I was, I think, a 20% investor. And then they asked me to be the operating partner. And both of them had 30%. And by this time, candidly, I didn't trust either of them. Now I like them both, but I didn't necessarily trust them. And, but fast forward when I ended up selling, I think I was like a 75% owner or something like that. That, but that was through like buying partners out, silent investors out through the years. And, but again, I'll just be honest with you. Would I do that again? I probably would because it was a great learning experience. And, but I learned every— so I owned the broker for 10 years. I learned everything I needed to learn in 5 years. And then the last 5 years really was difficult. And so if I was to do it again, I probably would have been a little bit more mature to say, okay, I got my lessons after 5 years. Let me sell. We were highly profitable at that time. When I ended up selling, we were not highly profitable. Right. So I basically just broke even and got— I got a little bit, you know, I got a little bit of a profit on it, but not like a retirement, like I can, you know, go to Florida or whatever the rest of my life or wherever. But yeah, so that was my experience with it.

So you seem like you have a pretty restless personality, go jump into something, let's go do it. So was that last 5 years because you had cracked the code and you'd figured it out and you were ready to do something different?

No, the last 5 years is because we were struggle. So it wasn't, that wasn't like my personality. My personality is really like I'm determined spirit. And I never, ever, never, never, never, never give up. And so, but through the years as I grow, I realized that there are times that I should grow up or give up rather. I guess I had to grow up to give up. So yeah, so it really just more like just persistence, right? Now that quality has served me through my life. But as I, as I grow, I also realized that the same quality that can serve you can also get in your way and not being willing to give up when I should have. Or, or not even give up, but move on, I guess. I think that's more, more appropriate.

I'd say that's definitely a more accurate way to put it because it's not like you threw in the towel and just walked away. You closed it up the right way to take care of the people around you. I'm gonna guess you were very—

Yeah. I mean, I found the right buyer for it. Somebody I thought would, would care for them. I had, you know, when I sold it, I mean, this is '18, 2018. I had a one-on-one conversation probably over 3 days with every single agent in that brokerage. You know, just like, how do you have 150 conversations in a short period of time? That was, you know, and I didn't have to, right? But, you know, because at this point, like, I'm, I'm no longer the guy, right? Like I sold it. I'm an agent at this point, but it did matter to me that they understood what happened. They understood that they were going to be in good care and they were going to be able to trust the next guy. And I believe he's done a good job. I really, you know, I have moved on emotionally and physically, you know, since then. So. So there's that as well.

And all I can picture when you're talking about that marathon of 3 days is season 7 of The Office when Michael's trying to say goodbye to everybody. He starts one by one, by the end it's groups of 3 and 4, cuz he's outta time. And so that's the, the visual I got.

Well, it did. It's, it felt, it absolutely felt like that. It was like, oh my goodness. You know, it's like, it was like, you know, you think having 150 like conversations of any type in 3 days, that's 50 a day. Maybe it was more than 3 days, but it was a lot.

So if anybody comes to you now because they remember you from those days and they say, hey, I'm thinking about opening my own shop, I'm going to buy a franchise. What are the first 3 things you tell them? And it could be pro, con, in between. What is your gut reaction to them?

No, I wouldn't tell them anything, but I would ask them some questions.

I love that.

And so the ques— yeah, the questions I would ask is, you know, what is causing you to want to do this? You know, what are your goals? And are you being honest with this? Is this ego-driven or is it business-driven? And understand is if it's business driven, then let's actually look at the numbers, right? See, is this going to allow for you to make more money with less time? Is it going to allow for you to scale? Is it going to, to be able to serve you and your family and your goals? And those are the types of questions I would ask. For me, I would never do it again. And it's, I was in the military when I was 18 years old. I would never join the military again, yet I'm grateful I did it. So it's, it's like I would, it's a one-time thing for me. And would I recommend somebody else doing it? I don't have the right to make any recommendations for anybody because I don't know who I'm speaking with. Right. But I do know that I could apply my experience to be able to help them to think better. And, and so that they can, you know, be able to have an open mind about actually what they're doing and what's motivating them to do so or not.

So is it a wild guess for me to say that that approach of asking questions so that somebody else can arrive is part of how you developed the coaching strategy around No Broke Months?

I would say, yeah. I mean, for me, it's really about understanding how other people, how they perceive the world, right? Through their senses, through their beliefs, their values, and their identity, right? So you have to really understand, like, what is it that's fueling my beliefs, my values? What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? And then how can I understand how to ethically guide somebody else to make a decision? Including myself. And those are really the frameworks that I approach that I've learned through business through time. And that's, that's the approach that I take.

Well, if there's one thing I've discovered when I'm coaching agents and helping them put a, a brand together, put a marketing action together, they haven't done very much deep diving on who they are, what they bring to the marketplace. There's such a focus on the surface right now. I think a lot of people haven't, spend enough time with themselves to dig in. Have you seen the same thing and how do you coach people past the surface level so they can, they can get a better depth of understanding?

There's a linear order to it, right? So there's 4 pillars to business, and this is whether you're a real estate agent, a broker, owner, whatever the case may be. It doesn't, whatever the case may be, there's 4 pillars and they're linear. And so what you're asking about is really that deep diving, which is, you know, rests within the belief. And so if you don't have the ability to really to deep dive and believe in yourself and understand yourself, and then be able to set yourself up so that when times get hard and they will, that you can be able to have the technology and the framework so that you can be able to emotionally stay stable. And that's really the first pillar of business is what you're asking me about, right? But then built on top of that, would be finding business, lead generating, right? So, so it's belief and then lead generation. And then on top of that is getting people and systems to support you. That, that's organization building. And then on top of that would be leadership. And leadership in my definition is to teach somebody else how to think so that they can get what they want.

Okay. So in those 4 pillars, which one do you think has the shakiest foundation for the vast majority of the people with whom you've spoken?

I don't know if I would answer to say any of them are shaky. I would say more accurately is that most don't work on one before they go to the next. And so without the understanding that the next level is the, the previous level is required to be able to enter into the next realm. And so for example, you know, a lot of times I'll see people just jump into lead generation. And they don't believe in themselves and then they get crushed on it and they don't realize that it's going to take 50 outreaches to be able to get one piece of business and they quit, right? Well, they're not quitting because they suck at lead generation. They're quitting because they, they don't have the tools to be able to believe in themselves to be in and to understand the reality of what the business is. Okay. And so really whatever, whatever technology, however you want to be able to lead generate, My belief is you got to look inside yourself first and you have to sit there and say, what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? What are my superpowers? What would my mama say that I'm good at doing? My daughter, my dog, my best friend. What would they say makes Dan Rochon freaking phenomenal? All right. And there's some things that make me not phenomenal as well. Right. But I'm looking at the phenomenal stuff.

Right.

Then, right. Then take all those different things that makes, make you phenomenal. Then look at all the different ways to be able to find business. I can, you know, in real estate sales, I can go FSBOs, expires, open houses, billboards, cold calls, Facebook ads. There's, you know, there's so many different ways. So I look at what are all the different ways I could find business? What are my superpowers? And now I'm going to align them. And I'm saying, well, if I'm a social person, if people love me, when I enter in the room, I make people feel warm and alive. Maybe an open house would be more appropriate for your strategy than calling expireds. Okay. If you're fearless and you don't, you, rejection, you don't even notice it, right? Then maybe calling expireds would be more appropriate than open houses. So it's really slowing down. I heard on a podcast by a Navy SEAL in the movie F1 a few weeks ago, I was flying to Italy to do a talk and I was coming back and I was watching F1 and they said slow is smooth and smooth is fast. And that's sort of like my new mantra, right? So it's almost like take a step back and slow down, right? Because if you don't really identify what you're gonna resonate with, then it's gonna be harder to maintain that, you know, 49 rejections because you're not only you're getting rejected 49 times, but you're doing something that you don't like. And now it, it's like the odds of you succeeding are pretty much zero.

And they're potentially going broke at the same time because if all you're doing is chasing buckets of leads from Zillow or realtor.com or any of the lead generation sites, but you haven't figured out the rest of the pieces, it's no wonder you're spending all this money getting yelled at and not making it back. But I think their business model is predicated on people who just need more, more, more instead of doing the, the understanding of what's happening with the ones you do have.

Yeah. And you're gonna just barrel through it. You can have success, but it's not a happy success. If you can, a lot, even a, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

That's the technique you're talking about there. Get enough of 'em, but that's, That'll wear you down.

But as I was saying, but if you align whatever your lead generation strategy with like your DNA of who you are, your spiritual being, then you can now enjoy what you're doing while you get rejected.

Oh, thank you for telling me no. Thank you. Have a good day. Which actually, if they're jerks to you, your cheerful positivity will tick them off. And so then you actually do win. So there's something he said.

Quick story. When I, I know it's your show, but quick story. When I was a waiter, I used to tell the other waiters that I would want to take the biggest jerk in the restaurant that would come in as a customer. I said, I want that guy. And they're like, why do you always take the jerks? I said, because I care. Like, you care for the jerk? Nope. I care for the taxi cab driver. And this is well before Uber. I care for the taxi cab driver that that jerk is going to get in the car when he leaves this restaurant. I care for that person. And if I can help this jerk be 1% less of a jerk, then I just helped the next guy have 1% of a better life. Right. And so, or at least an interaction in that case. So it's just this understanding about like, we can show up and care for others and make an impact even when the other person's not, you know, nice to you. And I don't know how relevant that is to our conversation, but a little sidebar. I'm grateful that you let me share.

I think it's so relevant because you're talking about spotting opportunities and you were spotting opportunities with difficult people. So what was the secret sauce to making that person less of a pain?

There's a thing that I teach called the CPI Communication Model. So that's Consistent Predictable Income. And what that is, is to be able to be in rapport and connect with other person's energy and then ask them deep diving questions. And I call those ADEPT questions and then actively listening. And I believe that anybody can have a better day when you, if you choose, if you're choosing to have a better day, you can influence anybody else's day simply by paying attention to their energy and connecting your energy with theirs. And then as you connect your energy with theirs, now you can be able to begin to influence. Now you can be able to begin to guide. Now you could be able to to help them have a better day because people aren't jerks because they want to be jerks. People are jerks because they were hurt in their lives. They were, they, they went through experiences that caused them to be able to, to protect themselves. And that protection shows up to treat other people poorly. Right. I do a lot of neurolinguistic programming work. So there's a, there's a presupposition in NLP that says that everybody does the very best that they can do. Given the tools and resources that they have available to them. Right? And so if you can understand that to say, they're doing the best that they can. They've had crappy tools and resources. And as a result, the best that they can is not very good. But if I can help them have better tools and resources, then they could become a better person. And then that impacts, you know, a daisy chain for the next, that's the butterfly effect.

So isn't that MKUltra? Didn't they use NLP?

Who is this?

MKUltra. Didn't they use?

No idea.

You never dug into MKUltra?

No.

Okay.

Well, first time I heard of MKUltra, I am a naive under— I'm going to check it out. MKUltra. That's my next. Okay.

Welcome to the, welcome to the rabbit hole and all of my, all my friends who watch the show that are coincidence spotters are giggling maniacally behind the screen at how you're not going to sleep now for a couple of days. But anyway. So looking back at that neurolinguistic programming, so you're changing somebody's outlook by a tiny percentage while they're in your restaurant so that they won't have a negative impact on the next service person they encounter. How does that translate into your work with entrepreneurs and with real estate agents who sometimes, because they're involved emotionally in their businesses, whether it's my real estate brokerage or the boutique next door, she is madly obsessed with people who walking in getting something that makes them feel great. And so if they don't find what they want, she's experiencing that little bit of, ah, because she wishes she'd been able to serve them at a higher level. So how do you hit that mark of helping somebody else while also managing your own emotions, which won't deserve?

Yeah. Let me give you a specific example rather than as a coach perspective. I think it'd be more relevant for your audience as a real estate agent perspective. And so like, let's say I'm a real estate agent and I'm talking to somebody on the phone and they're aggravated. Let's call it an expired listing. All right. And now probably 5% of your audience has ever even called an expired listing, but we, I think we can all imagine it. Maybe, maybe more than that. Probably 25% has called it once.

Well, probably only 70% of my audience is real estate agents anyway. So you guarantee that 30%. Don't even know what we're talking about with an expired listing. Y'all, that's somebody who stuck a sign out with the realtor. It did not sell and it came off the market because the dates ran out. And so then other realtors swarm in generally and say, I can do it better. So that's what an expired listing is. And then for the 70% that are realtors, I'm gonna say most of them, and you know who you are, you're not using that tried and true technology and idea set because you think it's for old people to do. So there's your quick definer for the audience.

So thank you. And thank you, Leigh. And so let's say I call them and they are showing up annoyed. That's perfectly natural. My job is to not bypass that annoyance because remember my job, going back to the CPI communication model, my job is to, my first job is to gain rapport. Connection, connect energetically with them. The easiest way for me to be able to take somebody who's in an annoyed state, an aggravated state, you know, I won't use bad words, but not a good state. And so the best way for me to be able to then move them to a better state is simply to label the energy. And that would be something like, hey, look, it seems like you're annoyed right now. I get it. I would be annoyed as well. Are you annoyed? Hell yes! Da da dah— whatever, whatever, okay, fantastic. I'm just curious... do you want to sell? Right? So what most people do is they go into the "do you wanna sell" when the other person's in an annoyed state—that will never work. You have to be able to pay—and now that goes to the third step of the CPI Communication Model which is actively listening. So now that I'm actually listening to the energy, I'm recognizing, to say, okay, they're not in a place that they could ever hear me. So I have to be able to transition this conversation in a nanosecond from an annoyed state to a neutral state or better. The easiest way for me to do that is to label the annoyed state with a word. It seems like you're angry. It seems like you're pissed off. It seems like this is overwhelming to you, whatever you're perceiving. And the more that you do this, the better that you're going to be able to align with that. Then once I label that energy, the, what happens is the energy diminishes. It's amazing. Okay. And it's something that this works in relationships, right? Your wife, your husband, they're not happy with you. Now you got to be careful, right? Because you may say to somebody, it sounds like you're angry and they become angrier, right? So you have to make sure you're really, really hit, you know, paying, paying attention. And it is a little bit of risk. If you get it wrong, it can make things worse. I want to, Be transparent on that, right? But if you're able to connect with the energy and then label it and then diminish and now move forward with the conversation, now you can get a solution.

So what happens when you do get it wrong? Because that must have happened to you at some point if you were acknowledging that happens. So you said, sounds like you're annoyed. And they're like, no, I'm fantastic. What's your approach after that? Obviously they're probably lying to you because they started cussing and that's why you knew they weren't annoyed.

That'd be a little bit of a different, if I got that, I would still notice that they're still annoyed and I would still play around with it. More likely what I was more referring is more like a very aggressive nature of maybe like, yeah, I'm annoyed because you guys suck and you keep calling me and you know, that type of thing. If you mess it up. What, here's my advice to that. Hang up the phone and make another call. And then through times, the reps, you know, like today I realized, like I've been in sales, like I mentioned to you, I was selling bubble gum at 8 years old. I'm 50, almost 53 years old. And the reality of it is that I'm a much better salesperson today than I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, et cetera. That's just time on task, you know, reps. And so if you make a mistake or if you get a negative response, that's your growth. I make so many less mistakes today at almost 53 years old than I did at 43, 33, 23. And so if you get a bad, a negative feedback, understand that all feedback is, it is just that. All right. So when somebody rejects you, that's feedback. Now you have the opportunity to learn from that feedback or not. What many people do, this goes back to the belief section, is you get negative feedback and you let it annoy you. You let it agitate you. You let it shut you down and then you don't take another shot. What somebody who's going to be world-class does is they get that negative feedback and they learn from it. Right. And so when I say that you may get a negative experience by using some of this technology, Yeah, maybe there's a 5% chance of a novice, right? But for me today, there's like a 0.5% chance as somebody that's done it through years and years and has developed themselves.

Okay. So in all of your time of selling real estate, owning the brokerage, working with real estate agents, post-brokerage, my audience loves to know the crazy stories that you've seen out and about in any of those regards and in your favor, you've got more than just the selling as a potential. We'd love to know what's the one story you have to tell.

From a leadership point of view rather than an agent point of view. So once upon a time when I owned a real estate brokerage and I had about 150 agents or so that worked for me, I have so many stories, right? The first that hits my mind was the night that I came to the office, 11:00 PM, and his name was Walt. And if you can imagine Seinfeld, And Kramer, if you can imagine Kramer just sort of like coming into the screen, like all this shavel, blah, blah, blah, right? That's who Walt was. And one night I come in there at 11 PM and I'm walking down the hallway and a door opens. And remember this, this guy's got this weird energy and he comes out of the door and he's in his boxer briefs. This is in an office environment, right? And he comes out of the door. He looks at me. I look at him and I'm like shocked. And he steps back, he slams the door in my face. And that was just another day at the office.

And it, that one, that was, didn't get brought up after that. It was just a moment.

No, no. He had to leave the brokerage after that. He was doing some inappropriate things within those doors that will lead for another private conversation maybe. But I can tell you time and time again, I had stories like that. People drunk, driving out buyers and just crazy. I had somebody living in the roof one day, like in the drop ceiling, you know, just crazy. Oh yeah. And an office, a homeless person was living in our, in our drop ceiling. And that's sad, you know, so some of it is like, you know, sad like that, but it's also crazy as well.

That's a creative place to hide out and catch a little indoor warmth, but also the Netflix thing.

There's a Netflix show on right now where the guy made an apartment in the mall. Like when the mall was being built, he saw like this little space and he made an apartment in it and lived there for, I don't know how long. It's on Netflix right now. What Netflix show is that? I'm sure you can find it. I'm not sure.

So I was gonna Google that DPT and say, what's the Netflix program with a fella living in the mall? Okay. Yeah. It should know based on that description. Okay. So as we wind up our conversation here, why don't you tell our audience about the new book you have coming out and why they should pick it up.

Teach and Sell: Why Top Salespeople Never Sell and What They Do Instead is being published by Post Hill Press in June of 2026, distributed by Simon Schuster. And it is descriptive of the 4 pillars that I described today, which is belief, lead generation, organization building, leadership. And it gives you very specific tools and resources to be able to, no matter who you are and whether if you're in real estate sales, insurance sales, But whatever sales it is, there's a predictable way that you can do this and have an outcome. And so it's the blueprint for people to be able to follow so that they can understand exactly how to get what they want as a sales professional and how to be able to help other people get what they want.

So it might just be their missing gap between they've got somebody to call, but it's not turning into income. This would help them bridge that in all likelihood if they follow it?

On a deep, deep level. Absolutely. I mean, this is ninja style type stuff. It's at whatever level somebody's ready to receive it. If you're ready to receive the basics, it's there. But if you have already been doing this for years and you're looking for like those higher level, how do I use hypnotic techniques? How do I use neuro-linguistic programming techniques? How do I use the sales techniques that the 1% of the 1% of the 1% use? You'll be able to discover it in the book. All right.

Well, friends, in the show notes for this episode, we will have all of Dan's websites, contact information so that you can keep an eye on things and preorder that book whenever it hits. Amazon for pre-orders, which will probably be in— for a June— Oh yeah. Yeah.

You can go on Amazon right now and pre-order it. You can go Barnes Noble, any of that. But if you go to teachtosellbook.com, then you get a $10,000 digital training course as well. So that's where I would direct people. Teach to sell, www.teachtosellbook.com.

Well, there you go, friends. We'll have again that link in the show notes to make it easy for you to connect with Dan and see if you can't bridge a few gaps in your own life. Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show and giving us some of this really good energy and insight. Insight in lots of ways that can be helpful to people. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. All right, friends, hit the bell and we'll see you next time. Well, friends, if that episode made you laugh, think, or shout, "Opa! Shtay!" go ahead and smash that like button, hit subscribe, and turn on that little tiny bell so you don't miss the next round of Real Talk with Leigh Thomas Brown.