“PMs who use AI will replace those who don’t”: Google’s AI product lead on the new PM toolkit | Marily Nika

When all these tools we use every day started coming up, I started figuring out how can I be an AI-enhanced PM? So how can I be better at my job, have more impact, be more productive?

So what you're gonna walk us through is this has inspired some ideas of, wow, if I had a fridge and a video and data, what products could I build that would be useful to me as a consumer? Where would you start as a PM who is working on a smart fridge?

Within minutes, I can literally see what the entirety of the world is thinking about. We have opinions in our hands and we can split and filter out these opinions based on people that want this versus people that don't want this. And we can actually read and have them debate with each other so that we know what it would take to find product-market fit.

Okay, you did your market research in 3 minutes and your PRD generation in 90 seconds.

No, my job is not done as a PM. The next step is to actually create A prototype so that the people that I will present this idea to will see my vision having flesh.

Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Clarivoe, product leader and AI obsessive, here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today we have Marily Nika, an AI product lead at Google and AI educator who's thinking a lot about how AI is changing the art of product management. She's going to speedrun us through using some of her favorite tools to do market research, build out requirements documents, prototype complicated things, and a few tricks on how to use AI video gen to influence your stakeholders and sell your vision. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. AI has already changed how we work.

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Well, welcome to How I AI. I am excited because we have a very fun, kind of unique product use case. You've been thinking about and using AI to explore the space of what it means to both be an AIPM and how you can PM AI products. So let's dive in and talk to us about what's been on your mind in terms of products.

Yeah, it sounds good. And thank you so much for having me. Yeah, what I like to say is that I was in AI before it was cool and I was a pure AI PM, meaning I was working with scientists on training models for speech recognition and it was great. But since 2017, when all these tools we use every day started coming up, I started figuring out, you know, how can I be an AI-enhanced PM? So how can I be better at my job, have more impact, be more productive. And I'd be happy to walk you through a couple of my, you know, how I, how I AI. So I'm just so excited to, to be here.

Great.

And so what fun product are we going to talk about as an example? I know that you have a lot, you know, we were just talking before the show, you have lots of jobs. I think this is a little bit of a hypothetical that we're going to work through, but I think it does show off some of the techniques that you've learned In the course of the last couple of years in your career. So what are we talking about here?

All right. So when I was trying to come up with a cool use case, when, you know, I was planning the podcast, I thought about what happened last Sunday. And last Sunday, I was literally walking out from my house with my kids, and I look at the fridge, and I post that image that the fridge had on LinkedIn, and As you can see, that image went viral. So it said, these items are expiring soon. And it said my Coca-Cola apparently was 80 days old. First of all, I didn't know Coca-Cola expires. Second of all, I did not know my fridge could do that.

Okay.

I know there is an inwards-facing camera, but I saw this and again, I put my PM hat on. What an interesting insight. And as you can see, it says, you know, you can dismiss it, you can snooze. It does say search for recipes, you know, which is not great. But when I posted this, there were 700 likes, 100 comments of PMs commenting what they could do by having this information, and 13 reposts. So I'd love to unpack this as a use case and see how we can leverage this suite of amazing AI tools we have and just, you know, see, see in action what it'd be like to be a PM for a smart fridge.

This is totally product thinking because you have a device or something in your house and you get surprised by a user experience. And I too did not realize Coca-Cola expired. I thought you could use it till the end of time. And so what you're going to walk us through is this has inspired some ideas of, wow, if I had a fridge and a video and data, what products could I build that would be useful to me as a consumer? And you're going to use that as an example to walk us through some of the really useful AI-powered PM techniques you've found over the past couple months. So, where would you start as a PM who is working on a smart fridge for busy families who clearly have 80-day-old items in their fridge?

Well, we have this magic in our hands, and the very first thing we do as PMs, right, is talk to users and listen to what users want, user research. Now, traditionally, you know, you would either leverage the UX/R department of your company or you would hire an external research agency. But with AI, within minutes, I can literally see what the entirety of the world is thinking about. So I open up Perplexity and something that not a lot of people know about is that there is this magic filter here. You can obviously search the web if you want, or academic papers. Or you know SEC filings on finance, but you can only search through discussions and opinions. So this searches through Reddit. So here's what I'm going to do.

Okay.

Um, would families be interested in a smart fridge? So if I ask something like this, it's like I get the entirety of Reddit and people's opinions. Just mined at once. And I can see references, I can see all the threads, and I can jump into them to actually see the discussion. And I see use cases that are kind of positive, family use cases, common concerns, adoption barriers, some sentiment, and all these things. Now, this alone is pure gold and a treasure. However, what I love doing is taking things one step further. So here, Bear with me. Here's what I'm gonna do. Now create 2 agents, one that is pro smart fridge and one that is against smart fridge. Use everything you read and have these 2 agents debate at least, I don't know, like 20 times about it and give me The minimum set of features I would need in order to convince the against agent. Now we're diving into Reddit where we have opinions in our hands and we can split and filter out these opinions based on people that want this versus people that don't want this. And we can actually read and have them debate with each other so that we know what it would take To find product-market fit. And we did that in seconds. And it's just such an incredible, incredible tool to have. All right. So here we have the pro-agents arguments, and then we have the against-agents arguments. And you can see the discussion is based on actual references from, from the actual discussion. And then there's a 20-round debate of pros and cons and all these things. And the best part is the ending where Perplexity told me, okay, here's what you need to do in order to build a fridge that is going to resonate with families, which is your target group. I can't even begin to describe how much time this has saved and how much more likely I am to find product-market fit by leveraging this technology. So now naturally the next step There's something I, I do called tool hopping. So we're gonna hop on to our next tool, but I'd love to see if there is any comments or any questions here.

One comment I do have on this is so often we hear about AI that it really wants to tell you your ideas are great. And so I think if you just said, do families want a smart fridge without any additional prompting, it would probably bias towards telling you that. Families do want a smart fridge, maybe with some caveats, but it tends to be pretty agreeable when it comes to interacting on ideas. And so I love this idea that I want to make sure people don't miss, which is actually prompting the AI to create 2 different personas in its analysis. Create a persona that's very for your idea or implementation or design or code. Create an agent that's very against your idea. Again, it doesn't have to be an idea. It could be, are you against the implementation of this code? Again, a really good use case. Have them do a hypothetical or artificial debate on the topic and then deconstruct that debate in a way that allows you to identify what would be the convincing arguments, capabilities, or implementation that might work. And so I think this is just a really great little hack on getting higher quality More critical thinking out of these LLMs that might be biased a little bit to agree with your ideas and tell you they're good.

Yeah, I completely agree. And the most important part is I told it what format I need this response in, and the format I need it in is features, cuz I'm a PM and because features is the input I need for the next tool I will demo. So now what I'm gonna do is I am gonna copy the, the minimum set of features that reflects the things I need, and then I'm gonna go to ChatGPT in order to create, um, a PRD. Now I have created an AI product GPT, as I like to call it, that has a template of my favorite PRD. And essentially I prompt it with specific features and it outputs a PRD in the style that I speak in my own voice. So the next step is I come here when it says ask anything and I say generate a PRD about a smart fridge that has these features. And essentially I am pasting the output from Perplexity. And now there we go. Immediately it just generates and says, okay, well, the PRD is an AI-enhanced smart fridge with local-first intelligence. This is what it includes. Here's the problem statement. What users, you know, my privacy conscious consumers, DIY open source enthusiasts, summary and feature analysis, architecture, key features. Of course, it does prioritization and all these good things at the same time. Now, this is not going to be perfect immediately. However, it gives me an incredible head start in order to just have my strategic thinking in the, in my head and spend, spend way less time in making a copy of the PRD and changing the title. So now I'm an AI-enhanced PM.

The other thing I want to call out for folks that are looking at this is this is a GPT specifically to create PRDs around AI-powered products, I noticed, or at least that's what it looks like. And so I do think that you can create sort of general-purpose document generators, but the more you can do a combination of structure and content in terms of your prompting, I think the higher quality results you're going to get. And so, okay, you did your market research in 3 minutes and your PRD generation in 90 seconds, but you know, it's a long way to the factory floor and actually building this thing. And so You know, once you have this, how do you like to think about designing great products with, with AI, or what's the next step for you?

Yes, it's really interesting how this flow has changed, right? It used to be, hey, I'm a PM, I come up with an idea, I'd create a PRD, I debate with a PRD and collaborate with my scientists and my engineers until we're done, and then we create a little MVP. Now my job is not done as a PM. Now that I have my PRD, the next step is I need to build. So I'm putting my AI builder hat, as I like to say it. And the next step is to actually create a prototype so that the people that I will present this idea to will see my vision having flesh. So the next step is to build, to prototype. There is obviously many tools that we can use. One of my favorite tools is, of course, v0, Lovable. Google AI Studio has prototyping as well now. I will use v0. It's one of the tools that I have had the best kind of outputs with. And what I did is I copied the output from my custom GPT, and then I'm on Palette to paste it here. So the prompt that I will use here will be, Create the UI of a smart fridge, given this PRD as an input. And I will just paste the whole thing because it's a very long document. It takes it in as a note and then I just do this. So now we just wait.

And do you feel like these PRDs, obviously I do, you know, we have an integration with, with v0 and all these. Vibe coding tools, because we really believe that a PRD is a higher quality input to this. You know, have you tried this, you know, prompting directly versus just pasting in the PRD and feel like that extra step really does help with the prototyping quality?

I do a lot of experimentation and I experimented because I wanted to move fast at some point. And I realized that the number of tweaks I had to do later on really got me overwhelmed and tired versus me starting spending some more time in order to make sure the angle is very, very good. It really pays off.

Yep.

And, you know, how do you think about where this might fit in the product development workflow? It seems like for you, a prototype is really a communication tool. So it's a tool by which, you know, if somebody read the PRD, you're like, yeah, yeah, it's like a locally intelligent smart fridge. Sure, whatever. But once you can see, touch, feel it, it becomes much more compelling. And so, you know, I'm curious, do you think this is an influence tactic that PMs are underestimating? Is it really to design the right thing? Where do you think PMs can use this kind of prototype?

The perfect place to use this is at the product review. So I find that a lot of product reviews happen more often now with AI because things move fast because some people are really not convinced with AI yet. So if you enter a product review that's just about, hey, here's what I want to do, are you in or are you out? Here's where you need to invest your resources in. And they can get the link and on their laptop actually touch it, feel it, see it move around. You communicate your vision and your passion more effectively versus Here's a PRD that I turned into a deck for you so that I can walk you through it. It's just so much more, it adds credibility, it adds value. It's just so, so, so much more effective.

Amazing.

Okay.

And now we have an open fridge dashboard. I have to call out for people who are not watching on YouTube and are listening, my favorite part of this UI is the door status widget that tells you if the door is open or closed.

It's amazing. My kids go to the freezer to get ice cream and they don't close it.

Mine too.

Mine too. It beeps. If you know, you and I have the same life. They close it like, but it's this much, this much open.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And the light is on and they're in such a rush to eat the ice cream that they don't care.

Okay.

So yeah, we can see here fridge temperatures, door status. Power usage was a good one. You know, the temperature that you can change, recent activity. Oh, what time it opened and closed. That's also good to call them out and say, did you have an ice cream? Temperature check completed, safety monitoring. It's all these controls. And you can see that this tool took the PRD as an input and it added features on top of it. It guessed what the UI needs to look like. So imagine your leadership or even your cross-functional partners to be able to experience your product idea. Imagine just how much more effective the meeting would be.

Yeah. One thing I have to, have to call out is because you said that privacy and local intelligence was so important in your PRT based on your research. And I think that's a lot of people saying, I don't want my smart fridge monitoring me. I don't want a cloud-connected smart fridge. I don't want advertising. I don't want monitoring. If you go up to, I think, hardware, I'm pretty sure, or diagnostics, I'm pretty sure your smart fridge is shipping with a GPU, which I find very, very funny.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, maybe you can also run your coding models locally through, through your fridge, you know?

Exactly. I love it. A little bit of storage as well. Yeah, this is, this is great. Um, but again, this is a wonderful 100% local processing. Look at this. It has a little badge that shows you so that you can feel safe. Yeah, this is great. I would buy this thing. I think this is, this is really phenomenal.

This is very much like a Silicon Valley fridge right here. It's in dark mode. It's, uh, it's got system diagnostics as long as you can like Root into your, your fridge, people are gonna be really happy.

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So we have this and it's great. It's an amazing first iteration. Obviously for a real thing, um, I would ask at least 5 to 10 follow-ups. Usually I add some images as well. Maybe I add an animation. And at that point, things are great. But this is not enough. I add one more step to my workflow, which is people really want to experience what this would look like from the user perspective. And nowadays we have all these wonderful tools that go from text To video. And so the next step I would like to do is actually go to Flow. Flow is this app by Google Labs. And then if you click on Create with Flow, you can type new project. And then here you can literally just go back to Perplexity if you want, or get your PID and say, Create a promotional clip for 2, for a couple using a smart fridge that has these features. And I can paste. And then you can choose what model you want to have. So for example, what the aspect ratio is, whether it's going to be fast, if it's going to have audio. I think I'm going to go with high quality just to see. what can come out of it and then hit this. And then we can—

Yeah, with movie magic, we can make people wait a little less, uh, as this generates. But I love Veo. It's such a great model.

Such an amazing model. I've been using Sora too at the same time. I have the, the app on my phone and obviously, you know, that generates in seconds, which is amazing. And you can do cameos and all that stuff, but They, they roll it out as part of a social network. I don't know if you've tried it.

Yeah, no, I've used it.

It's interesting. It's creepy at the same time, but mostly interesting. But yeah, I had my AirPods and I took a photo of it and I told Sora, I said, hey, tag Merali using these and make that an advert. And it just zooms in and it opens it up on the sky and has me singing. And I just go, Amazing times. Amazing times. Absolutely.

Yeah. My, my kids find it very funny when I make, um, Sora cameos of myself being like a, like doing kung fu fighting or doing something really funny. So it's quite, it's quite entertaining. I'm, you know, I think the, the social network aspect of it is a distribution. Method for the underlying API models. So I think it just shows sort of power users what's possible with it, and probably then people get excited about commercial applications. But I think it's pretty, pretty cool. Look at this door ajar. They're really worried about that door being open. Also, the screen is inside the refrigerator in one of these.

What is going on? Okay.

Yeah, let's play.

I hope the video, I hope the audio's gonna go through. Okay, let's see.

Number one, get instant local notifications like when the door is ajar, ensuring your food stays fresh and secure. Get instant—

number one.

So number one, again, for people who are not on YouTube and enjoying this high-quality AI-generated video, there is a screen on the refrigerator. This very attractive, well-dressed couple Opens up the refrigerator, and there's another screen inside.

Amazing.

All right, number two. Let's see. Okay. Two screens again. That's interesting. That's interesting. There's no voice.

This one.

Music on this one.

Yeah, cool music. This one, there is a screen inside. Basically the only thing you can see inside the refrigerator is a screen that says the door's open. And then when you close the door, the screen shows up again. It's up again. Let's keep fingers crossed for number 3 being the winner.

All right, let's see.

It says we have enough for the lasagna recipe right here.

Perfect.

And I love that it's all stored locally. No cloud needed.

It says we have enough.

I think we have a winner, Claire.

I, I think so, except if you watch it again, I think the man has disappeared and it's replaced by a lady. Watch, watch this.

She disappears and then her girlfriend shows up. I love that we have enough to cook lasagna recipe right here.

Perfect.

And I love that it's all stored locally. No cloud needed.

It did disappear. Well, we don't need him anymore. We're good.

You know what?

But it is vision setting.

That's interesting. Um, you know what I may do? I may actually generate myself, um, a Sora opening and Sora. I think that would be a very interesting—

I think we should do. Okay, so we're gonna contrast and compare. How would I improve this? I think, you know, my feedback on prompting here is it's really over-indexed on this door is open use case. So I would probably pull that from the prompt. And I would also maybe, as a good product manager, one of my favorite parts to put in a PRD— this is in our default ChatPurity PRD— is actually what's called a narrative, which is a story about an end user getting value from the product or being successful with the product. And I like to write those stories as part of PRDs because I think it forces you to take a very user-centric lens on a list of features. And so I might generate a narrative here and try the, like, pick a, pick a hero story from the narrative as opposed to over-indexing so much on the features. Um, but the quality is amazing.

The quality is amazing. And this took what, 30 minutes? If we didn't comment and laugh, it would have been like a 20-minute workflow.

So it's just— Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so what we're doing now, just for folks that, um, again are just listening and not On video, we are pulling up Sora. You have created a cameo of yourself, which is basically like an AI avatar of your face. Warning to people who are using Soras to create cameos: they really force you to continue to dress how you're dressed in your cameo. So I was wearing like very printed shirt when I did my cameo first cameo recording, and now all my clothes in every cameo are. Crazy. Um, but you're generating OpenAI Sora video. Did you use the exact same prompt or did you change it a little bit?

Very similar prompt, but I decided to add someone else in my cameo and I looked at who enables, who can do that. And I'm adding Mark Cuban to our video. Oh, perfect.

I think we're gonna get, I think we're gonna get a Cost Plus Drugs advertisement because also, I don't know if you know this. Uh, folks that are listening about Sora, when you create your cameo, you can ship it with custom instructions. So you can say never generate this or always generate that. I say always make me look good on my cameo. And I'm pretty sure Mark Cuban put in his, like, in every video, make sure to put a cost plus drugs ad in it. So I think we're gonna get a smart Smart fridge video with an embedded advertisement for Mark Cuban's software company.

You know, I had added, um, make me have a pet Pegasus with me at all times. Everything I do, there's like a pet Pegasus with me. Um, but yeah, let's see. Let's see how it goes. Um, all right. My Cameo is ready. First time I'm watching it. It's me and Mark Cuban opening a smart fridge. Um, all right, let's see. Let's see how it goes.

I don't know what we're gonna—

we're about to see. So this is the smart fridge you told me about.

Yeah, watch what happens when I wake it up.

It looks like a normal fridge until it starts thinking. Oh, it already knows what's inside.

Mediterranean quinoa bowl, Greek salad, pasta primavera.

I mean, first of all, Greek salad, that was interesting. I'm Greek. I think it's—

I know, it must have known.

But I mean, pretty impressive, right? It came out with a little dialogue and it's added to 2 people. I mean, this is Magic.

Look, PMs, what I want you— we've, we've had some giggles here, but let's just take a step back and talk about what we've done in basically 20 minutes. We have done full end-to-end user research using the wealth of information available in Reddit. We've come up with a highly defensible set of features, which we turned into a PRD. We turned that PRD into a prototype that then you could take into a product review and click through. And then just, you know, we're gonna work on our prompting a little bit and our cameos, but just imagine pairing that with some sort of video-generated visual or set of visuals that really just hammer home the value proposition of the thing that you're trying to build. And that package, which we just talked about, we just did, can actually be built in like 15 to 20 minutes without the chitchat. And it's just something that is was never, ever, ever possible before. And so what I think you're showing is the way we do product has changed, the way we convince and influence our internal stakeholders has changed, the way we communicate both product value and functionality has changed. And if you use a combination of these tools, even if you hit some silly roadblocks, you've just like totally flipped product management and the process on its head. And made it just much more compelling.

It's just incredible how the role has changed of being a PM. You've got to be AI enhanced. And it's not like AI is taking over our role. If anything, PMs that use AI are the ones that are going to take over the role of people that don't use AI. So it's just so important to explore and adapt and see which tools fit to your workflow. Because, you know, my choices might not be the same as other people's choices, right? But I'm excited I get to share them with you.

Great.

So in addition to this kind of new world AIPM stuff, you have one other kind of power use case of another tool that we, we see it occasionally on the show, but not too frequently. And I think your use case is really interesting. So do you want to spin that up?

Yeah, sounds good. So outside of my day job as an AIPM, I'm an AI educator and the founder of the AI Product Academy, and I have a bootcamp. It's AI Product Management Bootcamp and Certification, and people get to join us for 6 weeks and build their own product end to end. They actually launch a product by having an engineer attached to them. Now we have a demo day, and that's the best part of the bootcamp. Everyone comes in, presents, they earn prizes, they pitch to VCs. And I wanted to add AI as a judge, and I thought about how I could do that long and hard, and I ended up using NotebookLM as a judge, and I'm gonna show you what this looks like cuz it was super cool. It's super interesting. So on June 13th, we had a demo day, and what I did is I recorded the audio of every single pitch and I uploaded these separate files here. So this notebook actually has all these presentations, and then I went to the audio overview and I added specific instructions to focus on for these AI hosts. And I said, okay, this is the demo day of Merily's AI Product Management Bootcamp. And I want you to select the top 3 apps based on these criteria. Number 1, you know, how innovative it was. Number 2. Impact, and number 3, storytelling. And I want you to announce these 3 winners. And then I click generate and it's phenomenal. Now it's actually generating the audio overview and you can imagine my bootcamp at the end, it's like 200 people really waiting to see what AI is going to say. And we actually did a test with Well, we have live judges and then real people and then the AI and AI really chooses the best demos indeed. So it does listen to all the audios and it's just such an amazing use case. Everyone loves it.

I love this so much and it just opens my mind to a couple other use cases that I've seen very commonly. So demo days, both for courses and for hack days or hack weeks could be really useful. I have been in so many sales enablement or sales kickoff meetings where AEs do pitch competitions. And what a fun way to add sort of like a third-party analysis to pitch competitions and make those kind of fun. And so what I love about NotebookLM is you can do audio and multiple file in and then audio and multiple file out. And I think that's really Really fun.

It's great. And now you can actually do video overviews as well. I haven't tried that for my bootcamp, but that could be interesting as well.

All right.

So now there is a file that got generated on the right. We can either play and hear the whole podcast presenting all the ideas and walking us through them, or we can do this super cool thing where you can have this kind of interactive mode, which is like an actual live radio podcast where you Cole in. So let's do that cuz I really like this.

Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Okay, so you sent over this, uh, oh, our listener's got something to share. Let's hear it.

Hello, we're actually in a rush. Can you please announce the 3 winners right now?

Oh, absolutely. We hear you.

We could definitely cut to the chase, but we do wanna give just a little context for—

That's fair. We were just setting up the criteria for judging these fantastic projects.

And we are totally ready to announce the 3 winners.

The quality was so high across the board.

These projects are tackling some huge problems like health anxiety and life administration.

We grouped the pain points into 3 big areas: health and wellness pain, the grind, which is time and life admin pain, and the third one is the knowledge and empowerment gap.

Things like struggling with learning or bad leadership.

We judged them on 3 things and—

Hey, yeah, what's up? Just tell me the winners. You're taking too long.

Oh, we completely understand the need for speed. We got ahead of ourselves.

You are absolutely right. We apologize for the delay in getting to the point.

We've got the 3 winners locked in and ready to go.

You wanted the winners, so here They are. No more preamble.

The 3 top projects are EndoPath, StudyBuddy, and Front Desk.

Those 3 really stood out addressing severe quantified pain points.

All right. So this is incredible because it's not like this one agent we're used to talking to. It's, you're talking to them and then the other person that is responding, it's just, you really feel they're real and it's just magical. But yeah, that's my last use case on what I do on my bootcamp, and I think it's the most, my favorite thing to do on NotebookLM by far.

This was really good. I actually didn't know they had that feature, so I again can think of so many like training use cases, lots of things. Um, I love those little, little podcast hosts. They've got such a vibe and this was such a great use case. Okay, I'm gonna ask you our one. Lightning round question that we ask everybody, and then I'm gonna get you out of here because you're a busy, busy lady. So we've seen you, you're a tool switcher, so I know that you switch tools, but I have a question. When one of those tools is, you know, let's say Veyo. Veyo's giving you refrigerators with screens inside, with screens outside, with screens on your face, screens on your freezer, screens on your screens. When it's really— not getting you what you want? What is your prompting technique? What do you do?

The best thing you can do is just kill that instance and start over and use GenAI to help you write the best prompt. So I stopped trying to guess it myself and I use AI to help me with it. And the longer the prompt is, the better it's gonna be and the less likely to have more iterations. So yeah, use AI on AI.

Okay. Kill it. Use AI and make it detailed.

That's it.

I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Where can we find you? And then how can we be helpful?

Please find me on LinkedIn. I post content on AI product management and AI building, but you can be helpful by asking people to join my bootcamp. I have a cohort coming up in December, and as I said, people get 3 certifications and they get to actually build a full product and start their own company because I assign engineers to every team and you can build the product end to end. So it's this new tool that's coming out that is not gonna need us to do tool hopping anymore. You do everything on this one tool and it's amazing. And I can't wait to have people and see what comes out of it and what apps they create.

Awesome. And I believe you can find that course. I think we're gonna get you listed on Lenny's list if you're not already, and it'll be at maven.com/lenny. So Check out her course. It's going to be amazing for any PM that wants to do this amazing work very, very fast. Thank you for joining us on How I AI.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks so much for watching.

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