How VoteRiders Is Helping A Million People Get Voter ID

Welcome to Another Way, the podcast of Equal Citizens. I'm Jason Harrow, the director and chief counsel of Equal Citizens.

Today we've got a really great, important

conversation about voter id, something we haven't talked that much about on the podcast. It's with Kathleen Unger, who's the founder of Vote Riders. Vote Riders is a remarkable organization that helps voters in many states not only

learn about voter ID, but actually do

what they need to obtain an ID so that they can vote in an upcoming election. That includes, as you'll hear in our conversation, driving people to the DMV and Social Security office to obtain necessary documentation or IDs. It includes even paying for birth certificates or Social Security cards or other evidence that people may need to get IDs

in some states where there may only

be real IDs available or other very difficult forms of IDs to obtain. And Kathleen and I, in this conversation we talked about a lot of aspects

of voter ID where we discussed the need for voter ID in so many

states, over 35 states, sometimes even for absentee ballots, and how onerous that can be. We discussed specific populations of people that are particularly unlikely to have voter ID. And at the end we discussed the impact of COVID 19 coronavirus on voter ID and then what Vote Riders is doing to impact over a million people this coming election year and help them to either have the confidence to vote

with their current ID or obtain the

IDs necessary to vote. This is a really important area and I was really happy to talk to Kathleen. I think it's a really good nitty gritty conversation about what's going on in many states, including essentially all of the swing states. If you want to help them out, by the way, you can go to voter.org Kathleen wasn't lying when she says they have very clear information about voter ID and real ID on that website. So it's a great place to go for all your questions. And also if you want to donate

or volunteer, before we start, you should

know you can support us on patreon patreon.com equalcitizens and you can find us online at equalcitizens us now. My conversation with Kathleen Unger.

Kathleen, really excited to talk with you about this sort of underreported and undercovered issue of voter ID and what your group is doing to make sure that people can vote. People have the IDs. People know the laws in the states where they'll need these IDs to vote. So let's start by framing the discussion. A lot of People have heard the word voter id, and some people have associated it with certain types of voter restrictions. But you've been doing this for a while. So tell us sort of how you first heard about voter ID and what you sort of felt about it and what you decided you needed to do about it.

Right. Well, thank you again. My passion has been election protection since 2002. So I knew that after the 2010 election that a tsunami of voter ID laws would be headed our way. And I knew that the existing organizations, which are terrific, they focus on advocacy and litigation. And it was and still is an outrage to me that literally tens of millions of voters are at risk of being deprived of their right to vote on the ground because they don't have an acceptable ID to vote. Or what we've come to learn is potentially as much an issue that they are so confused by these laws that they won't vote even though they have a valid id. So I founded Vote Writers basically eight years ago, and we're a national, nonpartisan nonprofit. And what we do is we ensure that American citizens can vote with confidence, knowing they cannot be turned away. And we do that by identifying, educating, and helping citizens to secure their voter ID, assisted by, at this point, nearly 1700 volunteers, including lawyers. We work especially with and through partner organizations nationally and in the states and locally. At this point, way over 400 partner organizations.

So let's start with some numbers, and I think numbers are helpful to sort of get our heads around the scale of this. So you said in 2010 you saw a tsunami of voter ID laws coming. What? You were clearly right. What does that mean in terms of numbers? How many states currently have laws about voter ID on the books? And what. What do those laws sort of typically say? What do they require of voters?

There are currently 35 states with voter ID laws. We expect that number to go up, and we also expect that some of those laws will be made more strict. For instance, there's a voter photo ID law that is much stricter that is poised to be passed and enacted any day now in Kentucky. Of those a dozen states, laws are strict, meaning that if you don't have the requisite id, your ballot will not count, period. The remaining states laws are kind of on the spectrum of difficulty. In some states, you can sign in an affidavit that you are who you are, and that will enable you to a vote on a regular ballot. In some other states, without the ballot id, you have the right to vote on a provisional ballot. And if the canvassing board determines that the signature on the provisional ballot envelope matches your signature in your voter registration records. That ballot will count. So there are a range of states of laws that apply in the various states reverting to that subject of confusion, which both are on the ground. Experience and reputable studies show that a good 9% or even more of registered voters are so confused and intimidated by these complicated and onerous voter ID laws that they won't vote even though they have a valid id. And so this applies really in every state. Every state has, even those without voter ID laws is filled with confused voters and importantly with insufficiently trained poll workers along with insufficiently trained DMV employees. So there's a lot of confusion around this. Here are some examples of the kinds of IDs requirements that's Wisconsin is a strict voter ID state. For example, your certificate of naturalization is valid only if it were issued within two years before you vote. Also in Wisconsin, a student ID is valid only if it has your name, your photo, your signature, a date of issuance, and a date of expiration, which is no more than two years after the date of issuance. Plus, in addition, you need to provide proof of enrollment. Only four out of the 16 University of Wisconsin campuses have student IDs that are voter ID compliant in the state. The strictest voter ID law is in North Dakota, where if you're a North Dakotan living in North Dakota, There are only four types of IDs that are valid. A current North Dakota driver's license, a current North Dakota state id, a tribal ID from a recognized tribe, and fourthly, on, you know, a verified letterhead, signed letter from a recognized, you know, senior living facility. What does that mean? It means that only that if you are a North Dakotan overseas, only then can you use a US Passport or a military card to prove that as your voter id. So I think those two examples, and of course a lot of people have heard about the fact that there's some states where a concealed gun permit is valid but a student ID is not, or a government employee photo ID is not valid. Putting this in context, There are roughly 40 million voters in the United States who do not have a driver's license. And why is that an important number? It's because a driver's license is by far and away the most common type of ID that voters use to vote. And of the 35 and plus states with voter ID laws, there are only two types of IDs that are common to all of them. A current driver's license in your state or a current state ID in your state.

So I mean, those are some pretty stunning examples of really strict id. So let's talk about though, what your organization, which is gearing up for really massive mobilization and indeed already in the middle of a massive mobilization in terms of helping people. And I want to in particular just talk through sort of two kinds of people that you can help. So let's take the first one and we can stick with North Dakota if you wish, or a place like Wisconsin. Let's go to Wisconsin, actually, since it's the first one you brought up. So suppose that there are people in Wisconsin, perhaps a student, that maybe have id. So they have a student id, but they're not sure exactly of what the requirements are for voting in Wisconsin. Or perhaps they are a senior citizen who once drove but has an expired id. What sorts of things are you doing to enable those folks in Milwaukee or anywhere in Wisconsin to know what they need to do to be able to go to the polls and exercise the right to vote?

Well, that's excellent question. Thank you so much. And you brought up two of the key demographics of voters who are disproportionately impacted by these laws. Students and young people, older adults who are no longer driving if they ever did, voters of color, people with disabilities. Now, at this point, almost one in four Americans has a disability. Obviously, a lot of these people are not driving voters with low income. And then there are women because 80% of women who marry in the United States change their names. So since a number of states require an exact match between the name on your ID and and the name in which you're registered to vote, a lot of problems come out of that. So coming back to, for instance, with Wisconsin, our and you mentioned Milwaukee, our Milwaukee based Wisconsin Voter ID Coalition coordinator has worked with vote riders for almost five years and continues to build our our partner organizations, of which we currently have over 85 throughout the state. So just as she did in 2018, Anita is spearheading the Souls to the Polls canvassing plan in the Milwaukee area. That entails her speaking at several dozen churches, training congregants and working with them to canvas the neighborhoods around each church to ensure voters are registered and have an acceptable id. And I know we'll get into the subject of the impact of COVID 19 as we go along and so we can talk about the impact on these kinds of programs. We organize and host voter ID clinics. And so for instance, in Florida, this entails setting up so that there are lawyers, there are notaries, we work with the State, which has a mobile unit so that people who have the documents that they need in order to obtain an id, they can, right there at our voter ID clinic, get their driver's license or their state ID and they're good to go. Our partner organizations are the ones that reach out and bring in dozens and dozens of people who have questions who need help. I mentioned there about the documents that you need in order to obtain a voter ID and something that your audience can probably relate to. This aligns very much with what's required in order to obtain a real id. So what does that mean? It means proof of citizenship, an original or certified copy. That usually means your birth certificate. And then if there's been any name change since then, you need an original or certified copy of all of any and all changes of your name. I call it a chain of name trail. So how you got from the name on your birth certificate to the name that you're using today, you need all of those legal documents. You can need a proof of your Social Security number. Usually that means your Social Security card. And then again along the lines of real id, two proofs of residence. So just to kind of briefly walk through what issues all of those can raise with your proof of identity, we come across this frequently. Actually the name by which someone has been known virtually their whole life is different from the name on their birth certificate. And so the easiest way, frankly to deal with that situation is to get yourself a court ordered name change. And so again, our lawyers and who are pro bono are very helpful in that regard. Social Security card. Given what's going on with real id. And you brought up about what's happening at these government issuing ID offices like the dmv, which are super crowded. That actually is also happening at the Social Security Administration offices in Orlando, where our Florida Voter ID Coalition Coordinator is based. She has told all the voters whom we're helping if they're not in line outside of the Social Security administration office by 8:30 in the morning, bother. Because they won't be able to get to someone in the office to help them before their business closes if they're not there by that time in the morning. Proof of residency. Just if you think of a nuclear family or in any living situation where there's more than one person who is age 18 and older, oftentimes the bills all go to one person. It's in one person's name. So the question for your proof of residency is how do you prove if you're not that person who's receiving all these bills, how do you prove that this is actually your address? So you can see the issues that arise with that.

So I don't mean to turn up, but I want to drill down even further into a couple of these really naughty issues because, and just bring some context, which is it sounds like what you're saying are things that can't really be resolved on the eve of going to vote Right. On November 2, 2020, when the election is November 3, 2020. So I guess the challenges here is what do you do with, let's take again, keep in our minds that, you know, that elderly person who doesn't drive anymore and has only ideas, a driver's license that expired five years ago and it's now March and it's, you're not going to get a new driver's license obviously the day of vote. So what are the options in terms of you're reaching those people, you're, you're helping them and the realistic prospects of going through this process to, as you said, perhaps get a name change, perhaps get a Social Security card, perhaps get a chain of name change title, perhaps get a utility bill and some sort of verification that it's you there and not your son or daughter or something like that. How does that all really work? How do you manage that at vote writers to start that long process now?

Well, thank you for bringing up that salient issue. Procrastination, which I think everyone has some level of experience with, is not the friend that you need when you're talking about voter id. Voter ID is different from, first of all, let me just say to clear up, try to clear up any confusion in this regard. Voter ID is different from and in addition to voter registration, okay, Voter registration is relatively easy. You have a form, you fill it out, it's recorded, done right as you just walk through. Voter ID is very different and it can take a long while to obtain the documents that you need, you know, in order to get your voter id. So our, so we, this is why frankly vote writers and our efforts are a 365 effort, as in every day, not just, you know, September before the November election. And that's because we are trying to reach people and we work with them all the time so that they are ready to vote. So here's some examples of what we do. We have created voter ID information, wallet size, business card size cards for all 50 states in English and in Spanish. And so they're freely downloadable on our site. We print and ship millions of these cards for free to other 501 organizations that have a plan to distribute them and these cards show the highlights of the IDs that are required includes our helpline number and email address to people know where to go to get their questions answered and to get help and they have actually measurable impact on turnout. Our partner Mifa Mia Evota distributed our Texas voter ID Information wallet cards as part of their canvassing effort in six majority Latino precincts in Houston for the November 2016 election. And while overall Houston Harris county voter turnout decreased by 1% compared with the 2012 presidential election, turnout in these six precincts increased cumulatively by 92% almost by an average of almost 9% proportion precinct in 2018, turnout in the 13 precincts where Mi Familia Vota Texas distributed our voter ID cards increased by an average of 435% compared to 2014. These cards are great frankly, because people literally put them in their wallet now when they go into the polling place and they're dealing with a a misinformed poll worker, they literally have something to hold onto and say what you know, but it says here that what I have is valid. And so it gives again people that all important confidence. We've created a voter ID chatbot, which is all you do is you put in Our helpline number 884-433-88743 and whatever text and up comes two questions, English or Spanish and what state you know. When you complete that automatically you get a brief explanation of the card that you need, the link to the card for your state, and then how you can obtain personalized service, either continuing in a text version or on the phone. And that's available through texting, Facebook, messenger, website, chat. A terrific program that we have is we call Direct Voter Contact Partnerships. There are literally thousands of organizations engaged in voter registration, issue advocacy, get out the vote. They do that through canvassing, tabling, phone banking, text banking. And virtually none of them deal with voter id. It's complicated, it's time consuming. So with these partnerships, they add a voter ID question to their script. Whatever they're out there doing, we always hope that question will be do you have a current driver's license in your state? Because it's the one question you can ask that no one will be confused by. And if you have a current driver's license in your state, chances are likely you're good to go. So we're constantly doing presentations and trainings and parenthetically our website, vote writers.org is the single most comprehensive up to date resource of voter ID information in the country. Frankly, it's also singularly the most comprehensive resource for voter for real ID information in the country. And then of course through paid media, social media, earned media were just very aggressive out there and then assisting voters, of course. So vote Writers covers the cost if you need it to obtain the documents that you need. We were talking about earlier about the birth certificate or your marriage license or, you know, any of these documents. Also we arranged transportation to the ID issuing offices. Clearly you don't have a current driver's license in your state. How are you supposed to get to and from these offices? So those are just some of the kinds of the ways that we are going about it, which we are in the midst of expanding, especially on the digital front and phone banking and text banking because of the advent of the coronavirus.

So I want to put a pin in the Coronavirus and COVID 19 and come back to it. But I want to follow up about something you said at the end there, which is about cost, first of all, really quickly. I mean, do any of these states have IDs that themselves require cost? Or do all states, I think people often wonder this. Do all states at least have to require some option for people putting aside the documentation that they'll need, which I want to get to, is there at least some option in all 50 states in the District of Columbia for people to obtain the required ID without paying any money?

In some states you have to, you know, sign a sworn affidavit that in essence says you are sufficiently indigent that you cannot afford to pay for it. But essentially in no state should anyone have to pay for at least either if the state has a specific voter ID or by default a state id, meaning a state non driver's license id, no one should have to pay for that, otherwise that is definitively a poll tax, which is of course prevented by the US Constitution.

But what you're saying is it can often be hard to find that, and it's not obvious. I assume for many people, and for many people they may not have the documentation or may not wish to acknowledge or admit that they are indigent or not know what the threshold is. So I imagine that itself is a barrier. But then as you mentioned, that in terms of this being a poll tax or something like a poll tax, that that's not the only component here, right? Especially with real id, as you mentioned, there's often documents. So for instance, if you need a Social Security card, if you need a birth certificate, if you need other evidence of your name or your address or your Birth date or your Social Security number. These can often cost money. Now, you said that you are trying to do what you can to cover those costs. I'm curious, like, how scalable is that? Are you prepared to help out tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people with what could be, I assume, I don't know, what is it, 10 bucks a person, 25, 50 a person for some of these documents?

So we do cover the cost. And the cost can be. I'm just having, frankly, just reviewed the expense reimbursement reports of our coordinators. I can give you some perfect timing numbers here. So I found one as low for an ID, as low as 25, but as much as, what was it, $54.25.

Wow.

Okay. Right. And so we are covering those costs. And you know, frankly, from our perspective, because this is our mission, if we were faced with 100,000 voters who need this kind of help, my reaction would be, bring it on. We're looking forward to if you want to vote. We at Vote Writers want to make sure that you can vote, that you're going to be able to vote with confidence. And that takes your having the ID and you're feeling confident that you do. Of course, that confidence also applies to those who do not need a voter id. So in that case, we don't have to pay for any id.

Yeah, but as you mentioned, that confidence is really critical.

It is absolutely critical and just increasingly so. I mean, I just, so you just in this conversation here. So this confusion between voter ID and real ID is real. And so we're getting calls hourly from people trying to understand what this all means. And the short, we have a whole page on our website devoted to this. But the short answer is to the question, do I need a real ID to vote? The answer is no. And then, however, so there are 11 states at this point that are issuing only real ID compliant driver's licenses and state IDs, of which seven are voter ID states. So bottom line, if your license expires or your state ID expires, you have no choice but to get a real id. And if that's the type of ID that you use to vote in your state, there you go. You have to go through this.

Right? Right.

It is expensive, difficult, and you certainly got to start early. So let's, let's now talk about what's going on now in terms of starting early. Obviously, we are now in the midst of an unprecedented national pandemic with coronavirus leading to COVID 19. And I want to talk about two aspects of it which are sort of the difficulties, and then perhaps we can close with the opportunities and also some closing thoughts. The difficulties, though, are, of course, I've seen already that a few states, New Jersey, over the weekend said that their DMV would be closed for a couple of weeks. Who knows how long that will last if that spreads widely and if that lasts for a while. Of course, we still have many states that haven't even had their primaries yet. This is a key time right now to get IDs for primaries. And then, of course, you know, people who have expired IDs need to start early for the November presidential election as well. What, what is the, the, the impact of closing those offices? And are there any remedies for people who say, look, I tried, right? I have an expired id, I went to the dmv, I, you know, they're closed, we're in a pandemic. What, what's their remedy?

That's a, that's a, that's a good question. And I think that, frankly, what we and vote writers would do would be, again, as I mentioned earlier, we do not engage in advocacy in terms of policy, laws, etc. But we do care and will advocate for the appropriate implementation of voter ID laws. In this case, frankly, what I could see doing. And thank you for bringing this up because I'm writing myself a note. I think that we need to make an analysis and perhaps, you know, organize a petition campaign to try to convince legislators, you know, or to expand the requirements so that people are not prevented from their fundamental constitutional right to vote. Speaking of that, you know, there's also the vote by mail. So voter ID laws apply. You know, in all those states, when you go to the polls in many of the states, you still have to have an ID when you're voting by mail. So we will be focusing on that a great deal and working with our partners that are going to be encouraging people to vote by mail when they can.

Interesting. Can you say a little bit more about that? How does voter ID work if you're voting absentee or voting by mail?

A lot of states will allow anyone to vote by mail, but there are many that have strict requirements on who can vote by mail. And then importantly, there are many states that still require an ID that a copy of your ID be submitted when you want to vote by mail. So upcoming on the 31st of this month are a couple of primaries for Alabama and Arkansas. Both states require, have restrictions on who can vote by mail, and then they also require you to submit the Very same kinds of documents or one of the same kinds of documents that you would need to show were you to go to the polls.

Wow.

And how do you actually submit that? You submit a copy?

Yes, you mail it in with your application.

So you need to find like a photocopier. Do they take like phone pictures that you somehow need to print out? I mean, that's. That I can imagine that's quite onerous for many people.

Exactly. And this is importantly with COVID 19. It's something that is going to need now a huge amount of attention, which frankly hasn't received that kind of focus previously. But now there's a movement afoot to try to get the United States Congress to pass a law that would allow vote by mail as an option for people voters in all states and D.C. so in any event, this is in this, with this virus. This is something that we're going to be emphasizing hugely and will be, I'm sure, the subject of a lot of our efforts to assist people as we go forward.

Yeah.

Wow. That's pretty remarkable. Okay, so I think we've covered a lot of ground, but let's end, I think on an optimistic note, you all are launching a pretty incredible campaign to try and help a million people get voter ID and be able to vote this election. How's that going and are you optimistic you'll meet it? And what impact will that have for the November election?

Well, thank you for bringing that up. It's actually where we're aiming for. More than a million new voters who have the ID now will have the ID that they need, the confidence that they do, or the confidence that they do not need an ID to vote. And so it is going very well. We're tracking the metrics through all of our tools and services and with that of our partner organizations. There was just today, Tuesday, an op ed that I had authored appears in Newsweek that's going to help our metrics. And we have a whole underlying formula for each type of tool and service so that it's reasonable in terms of being able to determine really how many people are we reaching with this message who are in turn obtaining their ID or have now overcome their confusion so that they will vote. But we're, you know, with schools and churches and libraries, health centers. So our partners are both in the democracy space and in the direct service provider space. And we've got our coordinators in six of our eight target states. So we're in Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas and Wisconsin. We're hoping to raise the funds to have coordinators in Arizona and Michigan as soon as possible. So it's very exciting. All of us are just working flat out and looking forward to being of service to voters and partners alike.

Yeah, no, of course. Well, it was fantastic to talk to you again. We can reach you online. Voter.org and just to summarize from my perspective, listeners of this podcast will know we talk a lot about sort of the democracy reform movement and HR1 and sort of big issues and voter registration a lot. And Adam has talked a lot about same day registration and automatic voter registration. But as you mentioned, Kathleen, I mean, registration only opens the door. And actually in many ways it's much harder to walk through that door. Right, because the door is being blocked by some, some really onerous steps with voter id. And so it's great to hear about folks like you that are really filling that space and helping people not not only become registered to vote and understand how to vote and understand how their vote is counted, but actually go vote. Right. And go have their votes counted, which as you said, tens of millions of people lack the IDs necessary to do that. So. Okay, let's keep our fingers crossed for more than a million for this November and we'll see what happens. Kathleen will hope to keep in touch. We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you very, very much for inviting me to share this important information with your listeners. Really appreciate it, Jason, thanks.

Of course. Thanks, Kathy. Sa.