3x OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST Kerri Walsh-Jennings: DESTROY SELF-DOUBT & Learn to WIN | Lewis Howes

I cannot wait to become the woman I need to be to walk this life and the greatness of this life. And yet I want to rush it. Like part of me wants to rush it. Like it's such a disconnect. I think you gotta have a dream.

The School of Greatness.

Really? Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. All right, welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got Carrie Walsh Jennings in the house. Super excited. Oh, me too. The icon. I've seen you.

Oh.

I've seen you. I play a number of times. I saw you in London. It was my first Olympics that I went to. And I told myself, and you were one of the only few sports that I actually watched. I remember watching from the top in London, it was like a nice little venue.

Amazing venue.

It was cool, yeah. And somehow I think I connected with someone from Gatorade who had extra tickets, and I was in there and I was watching you guys. It was amazing. I watched you in Rio as well.

You did? I was there in Rio?

Oh, a good game or a tough game? Did we win or lose? I was just looking at my phone before you got here, 'cause I thought I had videos of it, but I couldn't find it, so I have to go back.

Just say we won.

You- won that game for sure. And that was amazing. And I remember going to London as my first Olympics to attend, and I was like, I can never miss an Olympics again.

Oh really?

It was amazing just to experience it.

I cannot wait to experience it as a spectator 100%. Yes. I want more as a competitor. I want one more. But my goodness, they do such a great job. It's unreal. It's unreal. And then you just feel like you're.

Floating everywhere because the energy is like so electric.

It's cool. But you don't get the experience out of all do you? No, you're just focused. I mean, you know how it is when you're competing. You're just like, I'm here to do one thing. And sightseeing and all that stuff is for later. But no, we're on a mission. Usually for volleyball, we go almost the whole two weeks of the Olympics and we play every other night until the playoff rounds. So you're just like, the hardest thing in the world is to wait for your next match. You have like 24 hours plus. You're like, oh my gosh, when usually we play two or three matches a day.

We're like rolling.

You do one match and then you wait two days. Yeah, exactly. So it's a mental time. What are you doing in the downtime? Man. Well, I have my children and my husband, so that's wonderful. But I find myself, it's really hard. Like I have not mastered that and I don't know if I can, you know, because I want to be with, like my kids didn't go to Rio cuz Zica. We were worried, but my husband went. But when I would be with him, I was so anxious and tense. and it was just, it wasn't fair to him, you know? And it's like really hard to express, like I love you so much and I want to be with you, but I can't. You know? She's like, well you have two days. I'm like, I can't.

This is the two most important weeks of the four years for you.

I mean, I guess so. Ultimately, yeah.

In those two weeks, you should be so dialed in and focused. You need to be selfish.

Yeah, well yeah, but I'm of the mindset where I just want to have so much fun and like, I want to win with my people, like living life. I'm obsessed and I'm intense and all these things, but I also want to have a flip side of that because that's just, I think that's possible and I have not done that yet.

You mean having fun, being with your friends and dominating. And dominating and your team and winning every game and just not all this pressure and stress.

Yeah, well, I don't even see it as pressure and stress. I'm in a little vacuum when I go to the Olympics. You know, it's like, we don't stay in the village 'cause that energy is intense. We stay there for like two nights before opening ceremonies and then we're like, peace out. Because some people are done the first.

Day and they're just raging and flinging.

And drinking and having sex with everyone in the village. It's like, yeah, they're going crazy. All those stories, I mean, can you imagine four years of just waiting? But yeah, so we kind of disassociate from that. But like, to me it's just another tournament. Like I kind of have the Hoosiers mindset where, you know, it's like the same court, all the measurements are the same. So, and it's so true. And then we don't watch TV. Usually we're in a foreign country, you know, and I don't really watch TV anyway. And so we just kind of go in your little cocoon, know what you wanna do, but I just wanna do it with a little bit more lightheartedness. Not hang out with my family all day and long before a night, you know, a match or whatever, but just.

Just- Some quality time. More balance. Now, I remember watching some interviews of.

You talk after you won the bronze. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sorry, people ask me that.

It depends on the day you hit me. I'm like, what? What do you got?

But I remember you talking about, maybe it was in Tom Billups interview or somewhere else, or maybe it was briefly after the Olympics were done when you said it was like one of the greatest lessons for you. It was like your most happy medal. It was not happy, but it was like you learned the most from it. You were like, I'm grateful we got this bronze.

Something like that. Well, we won the bronze, right? Like we won, like to go from like utter devastation, like literally, I'm not.

Getting into the gold.

Yeah, not even just that, because I've lost so many times in my career, but it's like losing a a certain way, you know, like not playing great. And it was my fault. Like that's how I framed that entire match. And so to miss out on this opportunity, not only my dream, but my partner's dream and our family and our team, like that's how I framed everything. So the 24 hours, the less than 24 hours between the semifinal match loss and the time we played, I was a wreck. Like such a zombie, just like literally walking in circles. Do you ever walk in a circle?

You've never been like, what am I doing?

Right, because you've never been in that position before. Never. You always made the gold medal match. There was so much shame and so much embarrassment and like, oh Oh my God, this is crazy. But to get the opportunity to go and live another day, to fight another day, my husband at one point, he's like, you got to stop feeling sorry for yourself. You have another chance. This is so rad. Go and be an American and show that spirit. That's what America is made of. And I was like, dude, it's so right, right? I try to live with the Christmas spirit in me every day and the Olympic spirit in me every day. And losing the semifinal match was such a great opportunity for me. To just like, I guess look in the mirror and be like, are you gonna practice what you preach right now? Suck it up, be a woman, pull your boots up and go get them, you know?

Or are you gonna feel sorry for yourself?

And lose the bronze. Right, and lose the bronze. And go out in fourth place. Dude, the worst. My first Olympics, we got fourth.

That's so hard. What was that? In indoor, in Sydney 2000.

Sydney 2000. Oh, indoor. Indoor. You did indoor Olympics. Yes. So I was finishing at Stanford, And then, yeah, it took like a year off to do that. But we got fourth. And we kind of overachieved. So it wasn't like, it wasn't that much of a heartbreak.

It was like, we got as far as we could go.

Yeah, and we could have should have, but we didn't. And it was okay. You know, I don't know.

It was more okay. I hate losing.

When was it? When you was that? It was 2000.

Yeah, so I was 22. This is 2020.

You've been in the Olympics for 20 years. I know, I'm an old- you-'re a machine.

I, yes.

I'm gonna take that. Wow. Yeah, 20 years of an Olympics. Yeah, so that's five Olympics going for six, and I want six, so I wear a four. My husband, oh my gosh, my husband was like, I'm like, babe, do you like my new necklace? So I wear this gold four. And he's like, yeah, what does it mean? I'm like, what? I'm like, can you take one moment and think about it? It's gold four. Yeah, it's gold four. Yeah, and he literally, exactly, this is what I want. And I like to, you know, rep myself in what I want. And this is, I just got this this weekend. It's a black Viga, which is very popular in Brazil, but it's like empowerment, and it's just like a sign strike. And I was like, that's a sign. I'm gonna wear it. And it's kind of black and mom-ish. Yeah, I got Kobe everywhere. I love that. But anyhow, it was an opportunity to like live by my values, you know, which is never quit, never say die, you know, step up to the challenge, and just give it my all, you know? And winning the bronze was the hardest thing ever, mentally and emotionally. I remember that. Volleyball's volleyball. But my God.

You were like crying, you were like excited, crying. You were on doing your post interviews.

It was like, you're so happy.

Remember being so happy. I remember seeing you high five, like.

Everyone around me originally.

Well, that's what I do. But you were so excited.

We won the bronze. Oh, it's so fun. You know, and something that I really, really want to do on the way to qualifying for Tokyo and then in Tokyo, like, I don't want to feel relief after a win. I want to really feel like exactly. Exactly. Satisfaction. We did it. We knew we can do it, and we're living in our greatest. Wow. You know, because after winning that bronze was total relief.

'Cause what if you'd gotten fourth?

Yeah, and it was just, yeah. And it was ugly. Like we won ugly. We did not play great volleyball, but we won. And I think it was like the perseverance and literally the American spirit, I believe, that fueled us to win because.

That'S something special, you know? It is very special. What do you think would have happened if you got fourth in the last Olympics?

Would you still be competing or would you be done? I have no doubt. You know, I think part of the reason, like I'm so confused why we got third. Like I'm so confused about that whole semifinal match. Not that I always play perfectly or we always won, but like, We were the best team in the world. Like we were playing amazing that tournament. And there was, everything felt great and it was just a night. Excuse my language. Beep that one. But I really think I would have retired and I would have retired prematurely. If you want a gold, if we wanted gold. And if we want a fourth, I would have, it might have taken me longer perhaps to say I'm coming back, but no way. I just wasn't done. On the way back from Brazil, I think we left the next day. Flying back and literally in the back of my book or the seat back, you know, pocket, they always clean out the flight before, right? In the back of the pocket, there was a book, you either win or you lose, but the losers cross out and it said, learn. That's the book there that someone left. And I'm like, okay, God. Wow. Okay. I'll do it, you know?

Hey, it's Lewis here, and I would love to connect directly with you. Text me the word YouTube to my.

Number.

614-350-3960. to receive weekly inspirational messages from me.

So I'm just, I'm still learning. And this, this quadrennial, I kind of live my life in four years, right? Which you can understand, but it's been really challenging. Like, really challenging because it's like, instead of being here, the alpha, like on top, winning consistently, like Brooke and my partner, Brooke Sweat, who's incredible, we literally started at the bottom. and we're making our way up. How do you start at the bottom? What do you mean? So I had, after Rio, I had a couple surgeries. You lose points. I had terrible finishes with my, another partner. So you lose points, right? And then Brooke had surgeries, didn't have a great year, so we had no points. And you need entry points to get in tournaments. So we had, you've won gold medals in the past, right? 100%. Yeah, someone's like, let's just grandfather you. And I'm like, you're crazy. I would be so insecure. secure once I got there. You know, you need to be sharp and you need to be sharpened by the world competition, you know? So anyhow, it's been a crazy three years so far with Brooke and I, and I'm just ready for smooth sailing, you know? And for us just to take up our space. Like we're both so hard on ourselves. We just had a tough practice this morning and I'm like, why are we so mean to ourselves? Like we know how to play volleyball. We are both excellent. We are so good and yet we make one mistake and it like affects Everything. We get quiet.

We like-- why do you think you beat yourself up?

Man, just a bad habit. I don't know. I feel like my framework for so long in my life was like, just do it right and don't F up, you know?

And what if you mess up?

Then you fail, you know? And it's just-- and I-- my life, like, I was so, so supported, but there's a lot of excellence in my life and a lot of very high expectations and things that I'm so grateful for. But the flip side of that could be that you identify yourself with your victories, with your successes, you know, with your performance. And I certainly do that. I still do that. Really? And Rio helped me break through that a little bit. Being, becoming a mommy, leaving the sport for, you know, a couple years, getting pregnant, having babies made me show that I'm very irrelevant. You know, like the world moves on. If you're not performing, yeah. If you're not winning and playing at the top level. Or just, yeah. Exactly. And so that kind of made me kind of own myself as a human. But the losing and the like the poor performances, I still have a tough time with that because I'm like, God, A, I'm better than this. And B, it's just that mental framework before as if you're not winning, you're failing, like I need to shift that because it should have never worked. It worked for a long time, that fear of failure. It pissed me off, it motivated me, but now it makes me smaller and it doesn't serve me in a powerful way.

In what ways does it make you smaller? Like internally you feel smaller or you.

Feel-- I kind of live in the what if, instead of I'm doing this, like F you get out of my way. It's like I'm just, I'm kind of on my heels more instead of like stepping up. You know, like I always want to be a hunter when I compete. And the mindset to me is everything, because I work my ass off. Like I'm so strong and I'm so physical and I love training. The mental and the emotional side of it is so challenging. You know, it's as an individual human, as a woman, and then with Combined with my partner who his or her own amazing, you know, ecosystem of your emotion and all these things. Life partner or your-- well, both.

But we're talking volleyball here.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But you know, 'cause it's like, and it's so cool in volleyball. Like, you know, I was thinking about this, and all of the world, it's such a unique sport 'cause it's two on two, right? Like, you have doubles tennis, but you are solely responsible for that return or that hit. I set my partner up, she sets me up, so there's a whole 'nother dance element to it and connection element to it. So, I'm rambling, but it's really fun. It's what I love the most about the sport, is that aspect of it, but also that I have to pull my weight. You know, we have to lean on each other, but each be super autonomous and capable of handling our you know what. So it's a beautiful sport.

What do you think is the biggest weakness you have mentally?

My self-talk.

Okay, so let me break this down. You're the best in the world.

I was.

Okay, well, you're arguing.

And it pisses me off to say that. I should just let you roll with that.

You're the best in the world. Just because you got third four years ago in a tournament doesn't mean you're not the best still. Ron James loses too.

I know, but it's different.

He lost a couple weeks ago.

Every time I play, it's for a championship. Like every single time. Really? Every time. I mean, you have a tournament, but if you lose, You're out of the tournament, so there's another champion.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, for that tournament champion.

Yes. Like there's it's not a season.

How many championships are there in a year? I mean there could be anywhere between 10 and 20. Okay. I mean we've played season where there were 18 and we won all of them. All of them?

I think Misty won and I won all of them.

So, I've tasted that.

What have you been I guess in.

The last 12 months? We won one last year. Out of how many? And we played the most of anyone in the world. Over 15.

These are world championship tournaments.

They're not just like US world tournaments. So you're playing the best of the best, basically.

So you won one out of how many?

I won one over 15. We made maybe three finals. But I don't care. You know? So my, yeah, this talk, this is what I did.

So anyway, when you go into a practice, let's break it down. When you go into practice this morning, for example, just an everyday normal practice where you're going hard, you guys are practicing, I'm assuming you're practicing against men, right?

Like who are two coaches?

Bigger, faster, stronger type of mentality. Yeah, often. Yes. And so normal practice happens and you don't do what you know you can do. You don't do what you're capable of. You miss the block, you whatever. I don't know the terminology perfectly, but you miss the certain stuff that happens. What do you say to yourself when you do something that's not perfect?

I mean, you'll get a couple beeps. Like, what are you doing?

You'll say this internally.

Oh yeah.

Not often.

I'm sorry, kids.

You're good. I'll say it.

But yeah, it's kind of like, but it's not deep the way I say it or mean it. But like, death by like a thousand paper cuts is a real thing, you know? And I just, there's like fear behind that and there's weakness behind that and I think anything Like everything is energy. So if that's like, I'm creating momentum with those thoughts and with that internal dialogue. And I just, I need to stop it and I need to be like, Carrie, you're on your way. Like this is a process. And so what I'm coming to learn, that I have to love the process. Like I have to make the decision and then just be done with it. You know, because you only fail if you just frame it that way. And I'm not gonna quit. You know, that's the ultimate failure to me, or having a poopy attitude and like, ending on those terms, that would be quitting. But the process is a beautiful thing and I love it. I just have forgotten that I love it.

Now, how often do you say positive things to yourself or do you only speak positively internally when you do something right?

You know, I don't know how to answer that. Yeah.

Do you speak positive self-talk internally?

In my life, I do. I'm a happy girl.

I mean, I practice.

Look at the butterfly. Look great, you know. I don't know. Our coaches do a good job being like, that's what good looks like. You know, that was great Carrie, you're doing this good. And I tend to only hear the criticisms, so I don't even think about that.

You don't even hear that, it just goes in and out, and then you.

Wait until, oh, but you can improve there.

Yeah, exactly. Wow.

Exactly. So you don't even say anything positive to yourself? I mean, during matches I for sure do. But not during practice.

But better there, no, but I, and.

I so believe in practicing like I compete. I've seen videos where you talk like that. No, no, no, no, no.

You're like just as intense and practice.

Well, yes, and now it's like I'm too on this side of the spectrum, too intense, too aggro.

I wonder if you, I mean, if you were this negative, maybe, I mean, to yourself, like, but maybe that's what's driven you to be successful.

I don't know.

I wonder what it'd be like if you were positive for a week.

No, I know exactly.

You practiced it daily for a week.

I love it. So I listen to Abraham Hicks every day, right? Love her, love them. Law of Attraction. So what I'm doing now.

I'm trying to have her. Yeah, she'd be great. She's like impossible, but if you have.

A connection to her, let me know.

Don't, but I'll try for you.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, you'll probably fill the whole building.

No doubt. Anyway, so go ahead, you try to listen to her. Oh my God, I'm sorry. I just visualized that. I would like to be there. Thank you. So she tells you, if you're in a funk, she's like, A, don't talk about it, which I'm obviously talking about it. And she's like, B, just like write down lists of the positive aspects. You know, what's going good?

With the phone.

With, no, with my game. With the day, with my relationship with my husband, with you, with my partner. Just focus on the good is the bottom line. Because again, every thought is momentum in one direction or the other. And I swear to you, I live my life that way for some reason. Well, not in practice. Not lately. I know, and it's driving me crazy. And it's such a disservice to my team. I'm being a selfish athlete right now. And it's almost like, I don't know, I mean, you're a man, I don't know if you get this, but when women are on their periods and they're just so hormonal, I have these moments where I'm being an a-hole and I can't help it. I'm just gonna run with it. I know I'm doing this, but it's almost like it has control over me.

Really?

And I think it's just there's fear. I want what I want so bad. There's fear of what? Of not qualifying, of not being the greatest ever, of not achieving this dream of 4G. Yeah. But mostly not doing it the right way. I can lose. I can totally lose. I just, I fear losing the wrong way. What's the wrong way?

Like, are you not trying, you mean, or?

No, that would never, ever happened.

So what's the wrong way of losing? I don't know.

What's this fear?

I guess not winning.

Like it's just the bottom line. So you have a fear of losing. I have a fear of losing.

Not qualifying, getting a, you know, silver or bronze or not a medal at all. What would happen if you didn't qualify.

Or if you didn't get the gold medal? All good. I mean, I would be so bummed and it would fuel me in other areas. And I'd be like, yeah, it would always be something, you know, a pebble in my shoe. But I've lived my worst nightmares. Like, I've lived it. You know, I've lost on the world stage. I've almost lost my marriage. Like, I've lived hell on earth. My personal hell on earth.

You know, to other people, they're like, that's nothing. Yeah.

Which is totally valid.

Sure.

Your own personal experience is still traumatic and challenging in its own way. Totally. And it's... Even if you've won three gold medals.

Exactly.

Call me Greek. I don't care. But I've lived really, really hard things in my life and survived.

What's the hardest moment you've been through?

In my career?

In your life?

In my life. Oh man. Well, losing loved ones, obviously that takes a cake. We've had a lot of loss in our family. But our faith is so big and it's just that, thank goodness. But almost losing my marriage. Like the hardest the craziest thing that I felt like I had no control over.

So the only... How did you almost lose it?

By losing sight of it. Like being so focused on my career, taking for granted that my husband was right there with me and not putting in the effort, you know, and realizing too late. Really?

Was it after you had kids?

We, I was pregnant with our first and he's like...

He was saying peace out already.

I was just like, I was a week overdue and he's like, we're done. I was like, oh, f***.

Really?

That's gnarly. Yeah, and totally like, he was going through stuff, but we were just like this and I didn't recognize it, you know? And I was so selfish and so driven and so focused on winning the 20-2008 games, I just lost sight of my people. Like, you know, and I will never do that again. You know? And we founded a company called Platform 1440 so that we honor the minutes in the day. You know, they're only 1,440 minutes in the day. Like, that has become one of our greatest filters in life. Like, you're gonna choose to do that? Does it service our 1440? Does it keep us connected? You know? And I'm terrible at it, but it's, you know, that awareness at least.

It's like, yeah. So when you almost lost the marriage, how did you bring it back? How did you make it work?

Well, I came to the realization that I had a big hand to play in it. Like, I stopped feeling like a victim and I stopped pointing the finger.

You didn't say, this is your fault.

I've got this thing I'm doing here. Don't you understand me? No, he was right. He was totally right. Yeah, so I just went to work on me.

Really?

Yeah. And then Casey, my husband, you know, was going through his own stuff and my only prayer was like I pray for clarity for both of us because neither of us were clear and we were so angry and so hurt and like acting out, lashing out that way, you know, and so I just prayed for clarity. Thank goodness he went and did his work, you know, and we just worked our asses off.

And it's been- In the marriage and the relationship.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it was like, Our psychologist, who's our performance psychologist, but who helped us navigate this, amazing. He was like, Carrie, if one of you has a tip of your baby toe in the door, there's hope. And literally that's all my husband had in there. And I was all in.

He was out already.

He was done. He was so hurt.

I don't want this. What was hurting him the most?

I'm his girl, you know, and I just, I wasn't honoring him. You know, like we made a commitment. to like love and cherish and support and I was so selfish and I just I have so much like I adore my husband so much and I would write him love letters like I felt so connected to him on the road but he at some point he just lost the connection fully and like I the notes that he would never read them and he just felt yeah, he was just so hurt, you know.

But you were still so you were still trying you were sending him I.

Was yeah, but that's kind of half-assed like I could have there's so many other things, you know, then when I get home be tired and I wouldn't like suck it up and you know, because that energy exchange is everything, you know? I don't believe in faking things, but I know I can make something special even if I'm tired. Yeah, because he deserves it, you know? Of course.

So there wasn't a lot of like, so you're pregnant. You're pregnant and he's like, I'm out.

Yeah. Because you're not trying. You don't care.

Yeah.

Well, he's like, we're just two different people living two different lives. Wow. We've changed. Like every, like so many heavy, heavy things were said. where if I talk about it, I'm gonna ball.

How long were you married for or together for?

Well, we started dating in '01. We got married in '05. And that was 2009.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah. But I was gonna say, it's like all the major heartbreak in my life, aside from losing my loved ones, has led me, which is so cliche, but it's led me down profound paths of self-growth and deeper intimacy with God, with my husband, you know, with my partners and with the sport, you know, so it's truly a vehicle for self-growth, you know, failing and kind of living a messy life. However, I do believe that you can grow through joyful moments.

Of course.

And I would love to do that.

You don't have to be messy all the time. To learn and grow. Now, do you think you would have, I don't know how you'd have a better career, but do you think your career could have been better Single without having a marriage?

No.

Do you feel like the marriage held you back in any ways? No. Or do you feel like it supported you in actually achieving all your dreams?

I mean, it's just at some point, so I fell in love with my husband, like my first day on the beach. Like I met him, we it was--.

He was a volleyball player.

Yeah, and he's a stud. He's my favorite. God, no. No, no, no, no.

You couldn't have achieved The three gold medals on your own without him?

No. No. I mean, of course, of course. But it's like, I'm here to live life.

Right, right.

You know, and I want that full experience. Like, after, before Beijing, I was like, I had a miscarriage. So we got married in '05, I had a miscarriage. They're supposed to be twins, didn't split, and went to heaven. And so we had, the timing of it was like, we have to make a decision, either don't play the next Olympics or wait and have babies after. And we're like, okay, we'll wait, we're young, we got it. But my job started to feel very trivial and very shallow.

Your job being?

My job being professional beach volleyball player.

Why was it trivial?

Just 'cause I was ready for more. I was ready for family. And so just my husband brought a new layer of myself and my life and my world. And then children obviously enhanced that by a billion. And so I'm here to love life and just to do it with my guy. You know? And so no, he's, no. No.

What's the greatest lesson that marriage has taught you about sports?

Oh, I mean, they're so similar.

Marriage is a sport, isn't it?

It's, I mean, it's like a full contact sport. Man, it's like what you do on the daily, like your habits. Basically, you are your habits, right? So if you're performing great on the court, your habits are probably pretty solid. You know, recovery, you're eating, you're working your ass off, all these things. Mindset, yeah. Yep, you're connected with your partner. Communication's great, yeah. Same thing with your marriage. Like it's those little things and those habits, you know, and it's just, it's so worth the time to water that side of life, and it's so important. I've said this before, but I literally, I've never won a Bible match when my husband and I are fighting.

Never. Really? Ever.

I can't do it. Not even like an early round match? No, no. Like for some reason we get like.

In fights in the later rounds.

I'm like, this should be easy. But we're not talking. For two weeks. Yeah. No, like, you know, life is just crazy. But like, if my life is crazy.

You have to clear the fight first before you go into the match.

Because my soul is just hurt. Like, he's part of my spirit, you know? And so if I'm feeling disconnected from Casey, then I'm just in trouble, you know? So that's how much my family and my people mean to me and affect me. And I love them so much. Like, my goal in life is to be autonomous, because that's like the ultimate freedom. You know, I can be in command of myself. myself. I can be commanded by tools in life on the court, off the court. And I don't want to lean on anybody, but my people take me to the next level. And their love and their support, my love for them make me so brave, you know, incapable of enduring anything. And so it's just that part of the equation is important to me.

What's the greatest skill you think you have that makes you different than every other volleyball player?

Oh, like a technique or can It.

Could be any skill. It could be a mental skill. It could be a habit skill. It could be a technique. It could be a power aggressiveness. It could be jumping. I mean, what's the thing that you have that no one else has?

I just have to say it's the full package. You know, I'm 6'2 and a bit. I'm really physical. I'm really effing hungry for the win. I got called last year, next level intense, or last year I got called next level intense by my partner, my coach, and I was like, really? I am like, I didn't even, I never think of myself that way, just the way I'm wired, you know? But I think that like desire to win that competitive nature, that intensity, you don't see it a lot. Like you don't see it a lot even, I mean, I was going to.

Say with your height and with everything, like the whole package.

Well, I was going to say in men's sports too, but you see it, obviously. But yeah, women, it's just, it's a, it's a different vibe out there. It doesn't mean they're less competitive, but the expression of it is different. Yeah. You know, and so... Tiger out there, you're like a lion, like ahh!

You're gonna eat someone's throat.

Exactly, exactly, happily.

Are there any young women who are like in their mid 20s, late 20s who have that same type of like competitive drive?

Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, they're... It's like everyone's like game face is different. You know, the way they express their competitiveness is so different. But yeah, there's a handful of girls where they bring an edge.

That.

And I, yeah, some of them like piss me off like what? But I respect them all and I appreciate it. You know like there's one girl she actually won the Golden RIo, Laura Ludwig. She's my favorite player. She's German. German, yeah. And she's my favorite and she has such a rad edge and such a big sweetheart, but she's just she's so German. She's so like I am on point and determined and I love her edge. You know, but outside of maybe two or three others, like there's really not a lot of like intense people.

Really?

Yeah. Not that they're mellow, but you know, next level. They're quite intense.

What would you say is your greatest weakness then? Is it your self-talk?

So I would want to say my inconsistency, which is not physical lacking. so I guess it would be inconsistency into what? Like, like I'd make mistakes, you know, like really aggressive mistakes or I'm going for things and I, I want to be more precise and I want them to earn the points that I've given people points. But I, and I was gonna say that perhaps my, like my mental agility, you know, like when I get stressed, like I go higher and higher, higher instead of taking a breath and chilling, like I'm working on that and I've gotten so much better. But I know that about myself, you know, and then like when you're kind of breathing faster and higher, like your vision goes from here to here, you know? And so I'm really, I'm very aware of it.

And that happens during game, during matches.

Yeah, you know, like, 'cause you're, it's such a sensory experience, like I'm, I rely on a lot of vision, a lot of touch, and I try to listen to my partner and then I sense the other team, you know? So if I'm like, like in this vibe where I'm just like, over excited or nervous or fearful or just over amped like my senses turn off and I almost hear white noise, you know, and then I almost match. Yeah, you know, and then you're like, like I'll go up to go hit the ball. My partner's saying line, line, line, line. And I don't hear it till after I land. I was like, oh, that would have.

Been nice to hear. Wow. Just stuff like that.

And that's because you're breathing too fast. You're too anxious in the mind. Really? Yeah. Because if I could take, you know, slow, deep breath from my nose, I might My whole system's gonna know I'm okay. But I just, I'm one of those people who, like, look how fast I talk. I'm just a fast talker. I'm a fast liver and I live.

Up here in myself.

And so when I get going- I.

Know you're practicing this. You're practicing breathing, you're practicing meditation. I'm assuming you've got the best coaches.

Who are like, you're doing Wim Hof.

Or you're doing Laird stuff. I have so many questions about your last experience. How fun.

It was unreal. Do you do any of the stuff with Gabby and Wim? Totally. I mean, I've been trained by Gabby and Laird, who I adore. I want to be like them. They're great. Wim, I bought his 10-week course. I didn't finish it, but I will. I believe in all of it. It's really good.

But it's such...

It's hard to slow it down though. Yeah, man.

It's hard to sit there and breathe.

It's the hardest thing for me. Like meditation to me is the one thing in the world I wish everyone did. And it's the one thing... You never did. No, I do.

I do it.

But it's really hard for me. It's like pulling teeth. even though I believe in it with all my heart. I believe it's more important than going and busting my ass in the gym. I believe it's that important and yet it's still hard. So that's where my work lies, like the stillness work. But I know these things. So now I just gotta create habit and routine and just, I just gotta chill the F out.

If you could add, if you could add two habits to your daily routine or to your training routine that you know would make you even more elite and win more. What would those two habits be that you're not currently doing?

I'm doing everything I believe I should be doing. It's the way I'm doing it.

What's the way? Well, it's not you creating a new habit by the way of doing it.

Totally.

So what's the way of the way?

I'm trying too hard. I believe you're trying too hard. I'm trying too hard. Like when I'm meditating, I'm like, hey, God. What do you got for me? You know, like, and when I'm going through these, like, these progressions in practice, like, I'm just like, I'm so eager to be so great. I'm just, you know, I'm effing it up. Like, be quick, but don't hurry. What is that quote? Like, John Wooden, he's so rad. Like, I'm being too quick.

What's the result now?

Yeah, and that life doesn't work that way. You know what I, with all of my, with all of myself, I know, like, my life always works out. Like all is always well. I believe that with all my heart and whatever happens is going to be amazing. And I'm in this because I cannot wait to become the woman I need to be to walk this life and the greatness of this life. And yet I want to rush it. Like part of me wants to rush it. Like it's such a disconnect and I think it's just fear behind it. So whatever that fear is, I need a name and look at and give it a hug. Be like, we're buddies. Like it's okay, you know?

So imagine.

Is this all gibberish? I love it.

I love talking to athletes because for me, this is my everything. I try to translate from my sports experience into business and life and relationships. So for me, this is awesome. Imagine you're on a beach by yourself, and you're walking up to the net, and there's a volleyball court. It's just you, you're in Manhattan Beach, your favorite beach, but no one's around and you're standing looking at the net. And then all of a sudden from the distance there's a figure that's coming and walking towards you. It steps on the court over the line and walks up to the net. And this person is the greatest version of yourself. It's a reflection of you but the ideal image of what you want to become.

Yeah.

And you get to see yourself across the net. But this person is perfect in every way imaginable. The way they think, the way they look, their body language, everything. It's the greatest version of you. What does that person look like?

Jesus.

Wow.

Like very clearly it's Jesus in my head.

It's you. I mean, if it's you, the greatest version of you.

No, it's like so, I mean, like, Are you religious? Yeah. Whatever. You don't need to, yeah. Okay, so Jesus is just my homeboy, right? And I just, like there's this artist online, I should look it up and show you so you can put it in the show notes, but El Kurlo is his handle. And there's, he does this artwork of Jesus. I'm gonna cry. And it's like the essence of Jesus or the soul of Jesus or the frequency of Jesus is like, It's just heaven on earth. It's like all is always well. You are good enough. You have it all. You know, and that knowing, like it's a knowing, a happy knowing. You know, not that tough stuff doesn't happen. There's like a happy knowing that I am capable. All is well. I am supported. And that would be me, but when you had me do that imagery, it was Jesus walking.

Wow. But if it was you, why?

If it was the devil, there too.

Yeah, right. It's true. If it was the best, it was you, an actual identity of you walking towards you. A six foot three. Are you six three, six two?

Six two and a bit. Six two and a quarter.

It all looked the same. The greatest version of me.

I wouldn't change my, for sure. For sure, for sure. Yeah, you know, what an interesting exercise.

Yeah, you know, I-- Would you be taller looking? Would you be standing differently?

Would you be speaking differently? God made me to be I would just be fully in myself and fully okay with what I am. 100% I'm good. Even though I'm very much a work in progress, I believe I'm good. I believe God did good. And I believe I'm working to get whatever blessings He gave me. It's my job, my duty, my honor to make those even better. But making them better my way, I got this tattoo and it's the chakras and I'm after alignment in my life. And I think what I'm trying to with all of my many words is that I'm after alignment. And Jesus represents alignment. And to be my greatest self, I have to be aligned with my source, my God, my Jesus, myself, who I know Jesus isn't within me. God is within me. And so if I can find that peace, even when it's chaotic outside, whether it's with my children, my husband, or on the court, then I'm a badass.

Yeah, you are. How do you get to a place of inner peace when there's chaos in your life? How do you go to that place?

Yeah, well, I think breathing is so important. And then just like we talked about already, just like the words I choose to say, you know, that dictates thoughts and emotions. And so just, I guess just having the awareness that all is okay.

Yeah.

You know, like just be where you are and you are capable of handling it all.

What are the words that you should be saying to yourself every single day on repeat?

Part of me wanted to say you are enough, but that comes from a place of lack. I don't know. You are loved. Like what would I want my children to know every day is that they are so deeply loved no matter. I guess that's kind of the bottom line.

What do you think young women, whether they're athletes or not, what should they be saying to themselves every day? When there's so much comparison in social media and so much bullying and all this stuff going on, what should girls say to themselves when everyone might be saying other nasty things about them or to them?

Well, I think all of our jobs is just to be the best we we can be, best me I can be, best you you can be, right? And I mean, certainly I'm a woman, I compare myself every day to everyone, and it's just such a losing proposition. So if we compare yourself a lot. I mean, I think subconsciously you're just like, oh, look how cute she is. Or, he's such a good speaker. You know, just these little things. But again, death by a thousand paper cuts. Paper cuts. The owie. That sounds miserable. So I think self-love is a really big deal. I really think self-love is huge. I think recognizing our inherent strengths are really important, you know. And that regardless of winning, losing, being beautiful, you know, whatever beautiful is, like kindness is the coolest and the most powerful. And like you are made of pure love. And all that sounds so hokey and probably not helpful to a sophomore going through it, but it's like your job is just to do you and not be persuaded, not conform. You know, like all this, all the magazines and all everything on TV, it's all about putting us in a box, you know? And I feel like if you look at like all of those things and when you want to compare, be like, I'm not going to limit myself by trying to be like her. Like, I'm going to be rad, be me, and be a non-conformist, you know? And that's like a powerful place to be.

You feel like there was someone when you were growing up that taught you a really important lesson that you still hold on to today? Maybe a parent or a teacher or a coach or an idol figure that you, you know, a role model athlete. Was there a lesson you learned early on that you're like shaped your life?

There's so many. It would be hard. It would be hard to say, but for the way my life has worked out and what I treasure in life, like I treasure my family, I treasure my faith, I treasure my sporting career. Like I love sports, I love competing. And in my life, my parents modeled that for me at the highest level. Like they were so committed to each other. They were very young parents raising their children. And every week and weekend we would go to their games, like super high level, really competitive softball games or bowling or whatever it was, volleyball. And it was gnarly and it was really intense and they were playing to win and they had so much fun. And so that to see that, not to hear the words, like words don't teach, right? Like they don't. But I saw the people I love and respect the most. out there putting themselves in the line, winning, losing, like fighting with their own teammates because they all want to win so bad. And I just learned by watching. So that the gift of that to me was just the biggest.

And what's the biggest lesson you've learned as a mom?

Oh, gosh. I mean, each of my children, as with each of us, has like, came into this world differently. And I think just understanding that we're all fundamentally so different and I have to give my kids the space and hold the space for them, for their greatest selves to show up, right? To be nurtured instead of labeling them like, this one has a tough time here. This one's great here. This one's, you know, whatever. And I do that. because I fear for my children. You know, if something's hard for them, like, you know, it's like I speak it out loud and I kind of put them here and I want to feather their nest and fix it for them. But it's not my job to fix it for them. And I learned that really early on. And my parents let me fail. They had really high expectations, but they like, you know, they made me responsible because they made me go through it. And so that was, you know, confirmed me being a parent. Yeah. But also just. that, man, if you have a partner in the relationship, like the part that the partnership is hugely important to the parenting because what my husband and I do affects our kids deeply.

It does, yeah.

You know, and so I'm not cool with my husband because I'm great with my kids. My kids aren't okay. You know, so fighting for that deep relationship with my husband is very valuable and my kids see it and then they get self-worth and security from that. So I think those two things. But our kids, my kids are so wise and they're so rad and I just don't want to mess them up. They are guided and gifted and I just want their self-talk to be better than mine. Right? Yes.

What's the thing you're most proud of as a mom?

Oh, well, just them. Like I had a part in creating them. Like they are, yeah. Do you want to be a daddy one day? One day, yeah. Oh my God. Scary, but... No, it's, I mean, yeah. It should be, but it shouldn't be. It's the most beautiful times a billion. Like my kids are, they're just, I don't know. I don't know how there's war in this earth when there's so many parents and so many children. It's just, it's the most beautiful, powerful thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy to me. There's so much love.

What's your biggest fear for them?

For my kids, that they don't believe in themselves, that they don't love themselves enough.

How do we teach that to kids? To believe themselves and to love themselves more?

I don't know. I mean, I think loving that, I mean, yeah, like you can't love me enough or believe in me enough for me to believe in myself. Right? It's such an inside job. Crazy. Yeah.

How do we switch that, Dan, if we have, if the whole world is loving you, it doesn't matter. No, it's just like believing yourself. It doesn't matter if everyone's like, you got this, you have so much potential, I believe in you. But if you don't believe in you.

You'Ll never-- It's so worthless.

And the cool thing is it doesn't matter if everyone's against you or doesn't believe in you. It just takes more.

Oh, it's beautiful. Isn't that amazing? To be a person of conviction, like self-love, that would be the highest conviction that I would have. Like that I would want, that I.

Want in my life.

Because I can do anything.

I can do anything if I have that self-love. On a scale of one to ten, how much do you love yourself and how self-love? 10 being like, Jesus level of love.

I guess to yourself.

Where are you at? On average.

Well, it's kind of a happy answer because with all my heart I know I am a 10. I love myself so much and I'm so grateful. It's hard for me to say that, but it is. I'm grateful God did good. I'm becoming, I'm a divine human, I believe. Divine being. But I criticize myself a lot. so I don't know. I don't know what to say. But that doesn't mean I hate myself, but it just means I'm part of myself, you know? But I don't know how we teach our kids self-love I think we model it. I think just, you know, authentic examples are the best form of teaching. And then love them so much. And when they, like, my boy, the other day, punched my boy Sundance, our boy Sundance, punched his big brother in the throat. Like, when he gets pissed off, he goes for the, like, the eyeball. He's like you. He's like me. He's like me. But he's so chill until he's not. He's a little tormented. And so my husband got really loud and he was like, Hey. And Sundance goes, I hate myself. And he said it with so much sincerity, I started bawling, which is not okay. Like I turned around, I was like losing it. I'm like, that's his self-talk. And my boy Joey was okay. You know, he was fine. Right, right. Which it was not okay what happened. But I went to that because I think I resonate with that because he's so hard on himself. himself. And so we had the talk of you are perfect. God made you perfect. Like you have to love yourself. You know, and it's like who knows what gets through. But like those moments, having conversations around those moments, ideally, you know, at least they'll have an awareness around it or whatever.

That's crazy. And when we start to verbalize how we feel about ourselves to other people, it's like imagine how much more they might be saying to themselves. Because I used to say so many bad things to myself growing up. And then I would say bad things out loud about myself as well as a kid when I was insecure or worried or lonely or whatever. And it's just a daily challenge.

I know. I don't know why we do that. Self-deprecating humor, I find to be so funny, but it makes me so sad also. It's like, why would you diminish yourself? Why do I diminish myself?

Make yourself smaller.

Yeah, it's just silly. Even if you don't mean it, which most of the time you probably don't, But it's like nip that in the bud.

Do you think there's anything to being a critic of yourself though that helps you grow? Do you think like, okay, because I am critical, because I do look at this weakness or this thing that I don't have, that I'm becoming better? Or if we're always our best cheerleader internally and verbally, would we be better off than we are?

For sure. I mean, path, those are just, I think you could have high standards and you can You know, work toward perfection that you'll never get, but keep like working for progress and be kind to yourself. And still be critical.

And still be loving to yourself.

Yes, yeah. 'Cause the world's job is to be critical. You know so well.

You've got coaches that'll give you feedback. Totally, yeah. You've got results that give you feedback whether you won or lost.

It's like you already have that. I mean, have you ever played a game and you just had the worst self-talk ever and you bounced out of it?

Like usually you're stuck. It's really hard to bounce out of it. It totally is. Usually you need like a half time or some type of break or shift something.

You have to time out.

Let's refocus, let's clear the energy.

It's really hard. No, so it's just you just got a nip in the bud. So yeah, I think it probably works until it doesn't.

But like that happens.

Or it only gets you so far. Exactly, and the biggest stage is you don't want to leave any of those variables around. You want to be so high and tight with your self-talk, like in crisis management or in these big moments that I'm trying to believe that all moments are equal, which they are.

But it's just how you frame these things. So in another 1 to 10, 10 being you only speak positive about yourself all the time. Where you have the scale 1 to 10 of self-talk.

Well, I mean, I don't do the high fives that well. Like, I'm not like, Good job, Karen. Good job. Like, you did great today. I don't do that. So I feel satisfaction in things, but I don't speak to them. I would say I'm like a five.

Five.

Maybe.

I don't know. Five and self-talk to yourself.

Probably the greatest Bible player of all time. I know, but I'm going through it.

Take all this to the greatest help.

I'm going through it. It's amazing that you were able to get that far.

It's so frustrating.

No, no, and I've not always been like this. Like, you know, I'm just kind of on a roller coaster. Just right now, gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, but it's been too long. I mean, a week of this is exhausting. Like, I'm so tired. I'm so ready just to kind of just focus on the bright side, because it's there. It's like what you choose to look at. But it's like, it's what, It's what you focus on is what you're going to attract in your life, like period. So you can be going through hell but you're looking at the sunshine and you happen to see a rainbow and then you start noticing, hey, I feel pretty good today. Hey, I got a great partner. Hey, I feel supported. I want to start that momentum going. Not like, oh, I just messed that up. Oh, my partner just looked at me weird.

Oh, the sand's so deep.

Oh, it's so hot. It's all in our control too.

It's just a really challenging discipline. A few non-negotiables for you every day that dictate how your day goes.

My attitude.

Whether it be a routine or a habit or like, I have to have a sip of this every morning, I have to say goodbye to my husband or kiss my kid. What's the non-negotiable that if you don't do it, you know your day is off? Ooh.

I don't have those. Not really. I think a good attitude trumps everything. However, the days I do meditate, I wake up before my kids and meditate. those days are largely beautiful.

Yeah, they're better than when you don't, right?

100% every single time. Sometimes we miss it. I know, I know because I want to hit snooze. I know, right? It's not worth it. So that would probably be the biggest one, you know, and just making sure that I get good sleep at night sets me up for great days. It does. And that's another discipline that I'm getting.

Better and better at, but it's a challenge, you know? Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

This is a question I asked everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. So imagine you've accomplished everything you want in the rest of your life. You win four medals, you win 10 medals, whatever you want to achieve, you accomplish it. At this volleyball level, at the mom level, as a partner, as a business owner in the future, whatever it is you want to do, it all comes true. You're a 10 out of 10 and self-taught. You have everything going smooth, perfect.

I do that.

You do all these things. And, but for whatever reason, it's your last day on earth. and you've got to go somewhere else. Your body goes, your life goes and you've got to take every accomplishment with you, every piece of content you put out into the world, every business, anything that's got to go with you that you've created. Your family, your kids around but like all the work you put out into the world, it goes with you to the next place. So, no one has actually any video footage of you from winning or speaking. They don't have this you, but you get an opportunity to write down on a piece of paper three things that you want to leave with the world. And that's what I call three truths. It could be your three biggest lessons that you would share to the world from everything you've learned. And now this is all we have to remember you by these like lessons, life lessons. What would you say are your three truths without having any preparation?

I'm so ill prepared.

It's okay. Whatever's on your heart right now.

Oh.

Three things you'd share with the world?

Oh, this is hard. They're so, I mean, like, I'm doing so much work right now. What do I pick? It's your job to be happy. It's your job, like, it's not your job to make me happy. It's not my husband's job, it's not my kids. It's my job, our jobs, to create our lives. We are not the victims. We are the creators. And if we live our days that way, we can create beautiful lives. Okay, that's one. Okay. Two, accept and love people and hold space for them to grow and Inspire them by your leadership or by your ways, if that's. If you hope that they grow into something. But I feel like that would take the pressure off a lot of people if they knew. Just period, you can't.

Accept people, yeah.

Yeah, you gotta.

You can change yourself, but you can't change other people.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, best two. The third lesson that you leave the world with.

God, I feel like I have so many better ones than I can even think right now.

What would you say to your kids, if you could share one final thing to them?

I'm torn between, it's supposed to be fun. Life is supposed to be fun. Yeah, and you know, like don't take it too seriously. Like all is always well. I always want my kids to know that. Like I want them to know truly if the worst of the worst happens, you're gonna be okay. I really want the world to know that and I believe that's true. And simply like my grandpa, I asked him for advice. Like I knew, you know, he was kind of getting ready to go and I said, Grandma, what's some advice you can give me? He goes, Just don't be a knucklehead.

He's like, so simple.

Don't be an idiot. Don't do dumb things. You know, so like- Simple advice, yeah. Like, I'm so messing up your truths. You're good. Your three truths. But it's like, it's so cool to care. Like, it's okay to care a lot. A lot of people hedge their bets 'cause they don't wanna get hurt. But caring is powerful, and it always leads you to beautiful places. Um, yeah, and then I just really believe that we are the creators of our lives. We are the creators of our own happiness. I think that's absolutely true. Yeah, I don't know. Fire me. Fire me from this podcast.

I love this.

I don't want to be good ones.

But I love this.

Gosh, I love this stuff.

What's the thing that you're most proud of about your husband?

Oh, about my husband? I mean, his heart is the most amazing thing ever. He's so rad, man. The way he lives life is he lives his 1440 really well. And he has high standards. He holds people accountable. He has fun in life. And he kicks ass. He works hard, so he loves his work. And no, but his heart is magic.

Yeah, that's cool. Tell me more about the 1440. How do we support this?

Well, so we're at platform 1440. p1440.com and p1440.com say it again what did.

You say p1440 the number 1440 yeah.

1440 so we were started because our sport is a volleyball is so powerful so Dynamic but it's just so fractioned and everyone has their own little pieces of the pie and the athletes are suffering the elites are all dead broke you know they're all stuck in system. There's no money, no stars. People can't brand themselves.

You could win a gold medal and.

Make not much money. 100. Well, we know it's like such a long conversation, but. So we were founded to elevate and serve the sport. Like, we are a top five sport in the world. Volleyball. No one knows that. Yeah. With participants, which viewers, like, we are huge. We are one of the top sports at the Olympics in tickets and a viewership on NBC. Like, we are, we are the thing once every four years. And so 1440 was created to make us relevant every day of every year, not just once every four years. Like it's a beautiful thing to be a popular Olympic sport, but it keeps you relevant for two weeks, once every four years.

And then what?

Exactly.

And then you're irrelevant.

Exactly. So you're the best in the world like you. Well, yeah, well, she's when you've been around 20 years, people can't get rid of you. But no, but you know, the life of an Olympic athlete is really hard. But our goal, part of our goal for 1440 is to create kind of the NBA ATP model where the athletes can cut their teeth, have their careers on the tour or on whatever platform, and then the Olympics is like the sacred, beautiful cherry on top. But if it's reversed, then that irrelevancy is that growth doesn't happen. So we're here to serve as a sport, and it's beautiful, and you can follow us on social, and we have a lot of juniors and semi-pro events, and the goal is to have- so it's a tour. It's a tour, but we're a digital media company as well. So we wanna become the go-to resource center for all things volleyball training, mindfulness, kind of the holistic approach that my husband and I live by. We're outfitting our resource center right now, so we have amazing experts.

It's really, really fun. I mean, because there's been different tours over the years.

It's been like, what was the big one?

So, the AVP still exists.

It still exists. Yeah. Didn't they go through some transition? Oh, it's been like this. It's been so volatile. The AVP is wonderful. You know, it's, it's, we believe it's mismanaged. We left that that tour a couple years ago. We just thought that was something that we wanted to do. She's not a part of it anymore? No, and it was really hard because we love that tour. We helped build it. You know, we feel like it's family, but the athletes were suffering. The athletes were treated like not well and kind of holding the sport hostage. So we were, we came on board to celebrate them. You kick butt and we're going to create new opportunities. And because we believe in abundance, new tournaments, new opportunities for growth. We have a developmental program where we train around 80 to 100 athletes for free a year. The athletes just graduated from college who are trying to become pro. We give them free strength training, free volleyball training, free recovery. So we're subsidizing, yeah, Manhattan Beach and Huntington Beach. Two places, yeah. That's pretty cool. So we're giving back to the sport and but our sport, the demographics in our game are so powerful.

I mean we are the number one.

Sport for girls and women 10 to 18. In terms of people that play or participation. And then in college, you get 12 indoor scholarships and six scholarships for beach volleyball now. Like that's six for beach.

For beach in the past couple years that have them.

Yeah. So they're playing beach in college. Oh, yeah. No, it's a beautiful game and it's growing like gangbusters. And indoor is ginormous and underserved as well.

And it's big in Europe too. Oh, it's 100.

Yeah.

So we, there's a huge market opportunity.

Why is there no pro league in U.S. when U.S. is dominant, aren't they? Yeah. Indoor.

Yeah.

They're always Always the top. Always one of the top. I don't know. There's just so many choices here in America. There are. You know? So there's just a lot of white noise. So we just need to figure out the marketing, you know, genius behind what we're offering because it's so beautiful and if you show up, you're gonna have a great time. And the lifestyle of beach volleyball is incomparable.

It's a blast.

You know?

So I don't know. We haven't cracked the egg yet, but we will.

How else can we support you on this journey? Oh man. In your life with the career leading up to this. What a nice question. Yeah. How can We support you. I just think good vibes. Forgotten prayers? You want to throw my way? I'll take them. But yeah, I think you live a good life and make the world better in your way and I'll do the same and that's wonderful. But no, this is great. This has been two years coming, so I appreciate your patience.

We've been trying to get carry-on for a while. We've been emailing, Instagram messaging, texting. When can we do it? Oh, this month. Oh, next month. It's all good. It's a nice timing.

I'd rather have you now than two years ago. Totally.

Kara, I want to acknowledge you for a moment. The way you show up is really powerful because I can only imagine the amount of pressure you've had over your career in the last 20 plus years of just trying to make it, making it, staying there, you know, going from different partners to having kids to challenges with your husband to just like the age difference in your sport and just constantly showing up at a high level. with a smile, with a positive attitude is really inspiring for me and for probably so many women around the world who want to be like you as a great role model. So I acknowledge you for all of it, for not trying to act like you're perfect, for not trying to have it all put together all the time, and for being okay with the mess sometimes and the chaos sometimes. So I acknowledge you for everything. You're a beautiful human. I really appreciate you being here.

That means a lot.

Yeah, of course.

That really does.

Of course. I have one final question. It's what's your definition of greatness?

Oh man. Well part of it would be what you just said. Like when I think of the greats, what did the greats do? They showed up every day with all they had, 100% on that day. And they had such mastery of themselves and their craft because they had lived the fundamentals and the fundamentals became part of who they were. And so they were able to execute at the highest level consistently. And because their founding principles were so strong, body, mind, and spirit, and craft, they were able to have careers of 10, 20 years. Greatness doesn't happen once. Flash in the pans, that doesn't equal greatness. You know, that's a great moment. But greatness, like Jordan, like Mia, you know, like so many, like Colby, it's overtime. And those people show up with all they have overtime at the highest level performing. And the essence of them and their journey to their greatness inspires, you know, whatever that little person in us saying that you have more in you. You know, I think it's a beautiful thing. What the greats do for this world, they make us believe a little bit more. and they make us curious about what's inside of us. But the greatest of all time do it consistently.

Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

Thank you.

Thank you. If you want more greatness in your life, then you gotta check out this video right here. Yeah, a great quote that said, Rest at the end, not in the middle. And that's something I always live by. I'm not gonna rest, I'm gonna keep on pushing now. There are a lot of answers that I don't have, even questions that I don't have. But I'm just gonna keep going.