5 STEPS To Master The ART OF SEDUCTION Today! | Robert Greene & Lewis Howes

You have to buy into the fact that you're usually bad at dealing with people. You're not seeing who they are. You're seeing reflections of your own, your own fantasies or projections. You have to admit that you're not good at dealing with people and you need to improve. If you understand that and you want to change and you're motivated to get out of your shell, then.

How do we understand the strength of someone's character? Whether they're toxic, whether they're. They have high values. Besides this, you know, the things that we can see of like, okay, they broke their word or they're negative, or things like that. How do we really determine someone's character?

Well, the first thing you have to do, the most important thing, is to realize that determining people's character is the most important thing that you have to do in judging them. So normally we think if someone's very charming, that that's great, or if they're really good looking or if they're very successful. So if we're looking, let's say we're looking for a business partner or a romantic partner or a colleague to work with, we're going to base our decision on those kinds of appearances. Like, people can be very good at deceiving you with being very charming and flattering, or they have a brilliant resume and you'll be seduced by that and what you want to do. The first step in that law is to say, no, that's not how I'm going to judge people. My main value is their character and the strength of their character. And character is something from deep, deep, deep within. The word character comes from the Greek chiros, which means to carve. And character is something really deeply carved inside the person. It's who they are at their core. It creates patterns of behavior that they can't even really control. It's who they are genetically. It's who they are from the early values of their parents. So you want to connect to that. You want to see that it's not immediately visible to you because people will disguise their character. You want to see that, and you want to value it more than anything else. And what you want are people with strong character. And what that means is people. They have an expression for metal. They call it tensile, where a metal is stronger if it can give a little bit, because if something is too rigid, it breaks. So you want people who are adaptable, who can be fluid, who aren't weak because that metal isn't weak, who have an inner strength and a core to Them, but they can bend, they can learn, they can adapt, they can change. You want to see people who are empathetic.

You.

You know, who know how to get along with other people. So if you have two people to choose, and one has a glittering resume, but the other person understands human nature and is superior in a social sense and can. Also has a good work ethic, you choose that other person. You don't choose necessarily the person with that glittering resume. And so the one. One of the things you look for are patterns in judging their character, because people reveal themselves in the past. They reveal who they are through their actions. They try and disguise it, but they reveal it. So I say in that chapter, nobody ever does anything once. So let's say you have a friend who does something kind of nasty to you. They talk behind your back. Then they'll say, oh, Robert, Robert, that was just. Something came over. That isn't me. You know, I'm sorry about that. That just happened. Circumstances made me do that. And you'll be likely to believe them, but the fact is, if they've done that once, they've probably done it many times. If people gossip and you hear them gossiping about other people, they'll probably eventually gossip about you. So you want to be able to look at people's patterns and look at their past and see trends and understand that if they've done certain things in the past, they will continue to do them. Because we humans have compulsive behavior, we are compelled to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.

How do we. How do we stop that pattern if we recognize it within ourselves? My character's been off. I've been doing something, you know, for years a certain way that I don't want to do anymore. How do we do it so we can strengthen our character but also say, you know what? I believe this other person can have a stronger character through breaking a pattern. Or is it just not possible?

Of course it's possible. At the end of every chapter, I show you how you can turn this potentially negative quality into a positive quality. So when it comes to you and your own patterns, you have to first realize that you have these patterns before you can even begin to break them.

So Awareness.

Yeah, Honesty. This book about awareness and being honest with yourself. If you don't admit that you have these patterns, then you can't possibly break them. I know in writing books I have terrible, terrible patterns.

Like what?

Well, stressing so much over things that aren't that important. Obsessing, Stressing, obsessing. I take note cards for everything that I read, all my research and I take way too much, too much information. I have like thousands of them writing. I have to stop and I say stop being so such a perfectionist. It's like you're wasting your time. It's been book after book after book. I'm very aware of it and I'm very aware of breaking that pattern. But you have to see it and be honest with yourself in order to break it, you know, so that's the first step is seeing the pattern and then not struggling against it, not trying to be somebody who you're not, but finding a way to use that pattern, to use that problem to your advantage. Similar to what Ryan Holiday wrote in his book the obstacle is the way. I have an example in the book of an actress, Joan Crawford, from the Hollywood classical period. And she had a very troubled childhood, didn't know her father, her mother beat her, men abused her, etc. And she managed to take. And it was creating terrible patterns in her life. And she found a way to turn that around, to use all of those disadvantages and make them make herself much stronger and very powerful performer. By bringing all of the pain in her childhood into her acting. By becoming so focused on the director because she had been abused. She was very sensitive to other people. She used that sensitivity to focus on the director and other actors, to be in tune with them, to connect with.

Them, to build relationship essentially.

Yeah, she was very aware of her own weaknesses and her own fragility and she was able to use that as a strength. So with other people, it's never hopeless. I mean, some people are toxic. I talk a lot of them there about toxic characters. Those are the kinds of people who can't really change their patterns, are too ingrained. And we've all met people like that. We've all had to deal with a narcissist who's so deeply self absorbed, there's nothing that's ever gonna save them or pull them out of that self absorption.

Unless they have like a near death experience or they have someone close to them.

That's true.

You know something where it's like a big awakening.

That's true.

Or they get sick or whatever.

Right.

You're right. That happen. That does happen sometimes. Sometimes it does. But you have to be honest that there are people out there, you can't be naive. There are people out there who are toxic, who are dangerous, who can ruin your life. You hire the wrong person. And I've dealt with a lot of, in my Consulting with a lot of people who hired a business partner who ended up sort of taking the business from them. Very common scenario. You have to not be naive and recognize these toxic types. And often it's best not to try and change them because trying to change them entangles you in a lot of their drama.

And it just. It's just never gonna happen. You might be trying for years and wasting your time and energy, but you.

Know, people have to be able to change themselves. You know, they have to be motivated. You can help illuminate some of their patterns and their problems, but it has to come from within.

Yeah. Now you talk about the law of self sabotage. And you know, you could self sabotage ourselves by attracting toxic people, but also what are other ways that we sabotage ourselves?

Well, it's. This is a chapter about your attitude in life. Right. And the point of that chapter is related to human nature, is none of us see the world in the same way. So you and I could go watch a movie. It's the same movie that we're watching. I love it. I see something, you hate it. You see something else. You don't experience it the same way. We're watching the same world, the same reality, but we experience it differently. Everybody you meet is experiencing their world differently than you are. So you have an attitude that colors what you see. And some people have an attitude that tends towards the negative. And I describe a negative attitude as something that's closed. So you're not open to new experience. You're trying to close that lens. You have certain beliefs, certain ideas about life, and you're not willing to change them. Right. Because that gives you a sense of security. And so you want an attitude that's expansive, where you accept people, you're not always judging them, you're not negative about them. You understand that people can't necessarily help who they are. You're open to change, you're open to having adventure. And that kind of attitude kind of gives you a certain degree of freedom so that the worst thing that happened to you and you're able to transform that into something good. So your question was, how do we.

Recognize when we're sabotaging ourselves and what's the things we do most to self sabotage?

Well, if we have a setback or a failure in life, which is inevitable, do we do one of two things? Do we analyze ourselves and see what we did wrong and how we could change ourselves? Or do we immediately look outward and blame other people? That person screwed me. Society doesn't like me because of these Circumstances, I'm screwed and I can never help it. It's the world, it's not me. That's a self sabotaging pattern of behavior. Because if you're always pointing fingers at other people and blaming them, you're never going to learn from your experiences and you're going to end up being quite bitter. So that's probably one of the most, the main sources of a self sabotaging.

So you could easily say, this stupid bee that stung my neck, that caused this blood clot and this high pressure in me. I blame the bee for this stroke that I had. Screw you, bee. Or you could take responsibility and say, well, what did I do to my health leading up to the bee sting for years and taking full ownership and responsibility is what I'm hearing.

Yeah, that's what you're hearing.

The story and the perception around the experience, the way you see that movie playing out, having a positive attitude around.

It and reflecting about the role that you played in what happened. So we can't, we're not in charge of everything that happens in life. There are circumstances that are beyond our control. Right. But a lot of what does happen to us is something that we do that we are responsible for. There are amazing studies about the role of attitude and what happens to you in life. So they have this thing called the Pygmalion effect. Teachers who treat a student as if they are smart and going to do well. Those students end up doing well. Right. So how you treat people, how you think about yourself, has a great impact on what happens to you. When doctors prescribe a new medication, there's always the same trend that when a new medication has been invented, the success rate is like 80% because people believe in it, because it's new. And then like two years later it starts going down because it's not. Yeah, it's a placebo effect. So if you believe something is going to work, if you believe that you are great and you deserve good things, that you are a good student, you will end up making those things happen. So how you look at yourself will often determine what ends up happening to yourself. So if you're talking about what, what causes self sabotage, if you go through life thinking, God, I'm not really that good, you know, there's something wrong with me. I don't really deserve good things. I don't deserve to have a lot of success or to have a lot of money. People read that off of you. A major theme in this book is that we are masters at reading people's body Language and nonverbal behavior. So. So when somebody feels that they don't deserve things, it's kind of an off putting quality in them and it pushes people away. So you create self fulfilling dynamics by how you look at yourself and your attitude. I had a chapter in the 48 Laws of Power called think like a king to be treated like one. And there's a story of Christopher Columbus who came from dirt poor poverty, but but imagined that he was royalty. And by imagining that, people started treating him like that. And as they treated him like that, he felt even more kind of greater about himself. And he was able to convince the king of Portugal to give him these ships, when in fact he was sort of a mediocre captain. So your attitude and how you think about yourself sort of determine how people treat you and what happens in life.

Yeah, I always say that we're either life's an enrollment game and we're either enrolling people in our vision or unenrolling people. By the way, we're showing up our energy, our language.

What do you mean by enrolling?

I'm enrolling you to come on my show and getting you to come on my show because of the energy I put out, the relationship we have, the connection, the platform, or I'm unenrolling you by the way I've treated you over the last six or seven years. By the platform, being out of integrity or not doing that well, you're not gonna be as excited to want to say yes. We're influencing people all the time.

You are influencing people all the time.

In a positive or negative way, right?

Yes. Everything you do, people are reading and they're either saying, I like that or I don't like that, or I'm indifferent.

Yeah. Yes is like I'm enrolling you, yes or I'm not enrolling you.

It's a no.

And you talk about the. You know, the chapter that I really like is about seven.

Number seven. Where we are here.

Where am I at here?

Soften people's resistance.

No.

Okay, where are we at?

The persuasive one.

Yeah, seven is that one.

Yeah, right here. The five strategies to becoming a Master Persuader. This one? Yeah, right here.

Seven. Yeah. Well, you, Louis, don't need to read that chapter because you already have that kind of mastered.

But I think people need to understand this because I think what we just talked about right there is probably one of the most powerful parts of this whole book in my mind and in life, is are you enrolling people in your vision, in being the King or queen in getting the ships that you want. Are you stepping up, enrolling people and getting people to say yes to you?

Yeah.

Or your dreams or hire you or date you or marry you, or are you not showing up in a way that people want to say yes to you?

Right.

And I feel like.

Key question.

My whole business has been built on getting people to say yes when I had nothing. You know, I was on my sister's couch 10 years ago.

Yeah.

No money, no skills, no degree. And it was an energy that I had to learn how to just get people to say yes and more and then building momentum around that. So I'd love to talk about this. Becoming a master persuader. And the first thing you talk about is, which I think most people aren't doing, you say, is to deepen your listening. A better listener. Most people don't have the patience to care about someone else. They're so concerned about what they think about them.

Well, people always talk about being a better listener, and their advice is usually very weak. I mean, it doesn't. Ineffective because, okay, I've become a better listener. I'll try that. But it's very hard to overcome certain patterns. So I try to tackle the question of why is it that you're not a good listener? And at the root of that is you're more interested in yourself than you are in the other person. You won't deny that you will say, oh, no, no, no, that's not me. That's not me. I really like people. But the truth is you're more interested in your own thoughts and your own ideas, things that you're so certain about your own experiences than about that other person and what they're saying and what's going on inside them. If you can flip that around, if you can actually feel the motivation to get inside Lewis and get inside his head and his experience, then you will suddenly will become a better listener. That that's the key, not just telling people to listen more. The key is the quality of the listening and the emotion involved. So if I feel I want to get inside that other person, inside their life, then suddenly you will start listening. What will make you interested in other people? Well, first off is the idea you don't know them. Normally when you're, let's say you're on a first date with someone or just meeting someone, you. You have assumptions about them. You create a simplified version of who they are, and that's what you think, and that'll stay with you forever. Instead, you want to think that person is more interesting than I imagine. Their first appearance isn't really who they are. They're like a book that I could read. We love going to movies and getting inside other characters and what motivates them, being taken along for a ride. Think of the people that you meet in life as a character in a movie, you want to know what motivates them. They are more interesting than you think. They've had traumas. They've had problems from their early childhood. They have fantasies. They have a shadow, a dark side to their personality. They're not revealing. They're more complicated and interesting than you think. So if you're motivated to understand what makes them tick, their experience, suddenly you will start listening.

Yeah.

So that's the key to me. And it's not easy.

Why is it so hard for people? Because for me, it's. It's been an easy thing because I've used my insecurity of not feeling like I was smart enough growing up because I was one of the poorest students in school.

Yeah.

So I was like, my voice doesn't matter as much. Let me just ask smart people what they think. And it became a huge advantage for me.

Right.

Because I've learned that being the most interested person in the room, you become the most interesting.

Well, the key is really so much in the book is are you motivated to change yourself? Do you want to become successful in life? This book is trying to realign your priorities and how you look at the world. Normally, your focus is on yourself and on your work and the techniques in your work, you know, the skills you have to master. And I'm telling you, the key to success in life is people. We're a social animal. You know, we're like dogs or wolves or whatever, chimpanzees. We're a social animal. And how we interact with people will determine how far we get. You can be brilliant at hacking computers or whatever, but if you're terrible with people, your life is going to be hell. So. So are you motivated to become somebody supremely skilled at understanding and working with people? That's the whole point of the book. You have to buy into that. You have to buy into the fact that you're usually bad at dealing with people. You're not seeing who they are. You're seeing reflections of your own fantasies or projections. You have to admit that you're not good at dealing with people and you need to improve. If you're. That. If you understand that and you want to change and you're motivated to. To get out of your shell, then you can make that leap. I'm a big advocate of baby steps. You're not going to suddenly transform yourself into Bill Clinton overnight, remember thousands of people's names, or suddenly become a great listener. So every day you give yourself little tests. So you have now lunch with this person who you normally find kind of boring. All right, for 10 minutes, I'm going to shut off my internal monologue and I'm going to force myself to listen to them. And I'm going to glean some information, some nugget about their character that I never understood before. I'm going to ask them about their childhood. I'm not going to be like, it's not going to be that kind of inquisition where I'm asking them, you know, penetrating questions, but in a relaxed mood. I'm going to find out about something that really motivates them or something deep or some traumatic experience they had. You force yourself day by day to take little baby steps in which you try to learn something about people that you didn't know before and get interested in them and their experiences.

What do you think is the greatest skill or a couple skills that anyone 20 to 30 year old, kind of in their 20s, should be learning how to master today? From the skills of psychology, the skills of human nature, the skills of understanding people. Which skill should that be?

The best thing is to be able to get inside the minds of other people. If you develop that skill, the sky's the limit. Nothing will ever stop you, because people are like a mystery. They wear a mask and you don't have any idea what they're thinking. And I have this metaphor in human nature, which I never wrote. But imagine a device was created in which some app that you can know the thoughts and feelings of the other person. Do you know the power you would have? Be insane. Okay, you're not. I can't give you such an app. I can't invent that. But. But you can develop half of that power by becoming someone of insane empathy. And it's not easy. And not everybody's born the same way. But it begins with one very simple step. And that is? Normally you go around more interested in your own thoughts and ideas. You're thinking about your boss, you're thinking about your girlfriend or boyfriend, you're thinking about this person who said this, that or the other. And you, you're locked in your head. It's like a record, like in the old vinyl days, going around and round and round, the same grooves, right? And even when you're sitting There, talking with someone on a date or something, you're thinking about yourself. You're still in there, right, because you find yourself more interesting than the other person. And it's very human. I'm not judging it. But inevitably you think your own dramas, your own ideas, your own problems are essentially more interesting than the other person. So if that's your starting position, you're naturally going to be more absorbed in yourself. You need to switch it around and you need to tell yourself the other person is more interesting than me. Their life, their thoughts, their ideas. It's like an undiscovered world. It's like going to Tahiti or something and visiting another culture. They have experiences you've never had. They have a world that. That's not your world. It's fascinating. Why do people love movies? They love movies because they get to go inside other people's characters and they get to vicariously live in them. It's voyeurism. You can have that in everyday life if you switch that thing where you're more interested in other people. And so when you listen to them, you're not listening with the idea of, do they like me? Are they thinking about me? What does it have to do with me? I'm sorry, Using that voice, please. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Kind of a whiny voice.

What's it about me?

Me thinking, just in a Zen way. Absorb yourself in their words and their energy and think about what? What they're saying. What's the subtext behind them? What's the body language revealing? What is it that motivates them? What is their inner life like? I can't get inside Lewis Howe's thoughts. It's impossible. But I can get inside your moods and emotions because we humans are very susceptible to the moods of other people. We can feel them. So I can start to. If I'm open enough, I can understand the tone in your voice, I can understand the subtext of what you're saying, and I could pick up the emotion behind it and what you're intending. And once I do that, well, then if someone says something, I don't have to take it personally because now I understand that it probably comes from other things that have nothing to do with me or I want to persuade them to help me on a project. Well, now I know what their world is like, what their spirit is, what their problems are. I'm going to mold what I'm saying to get them interested in my idea. Doors open up to you, left, right and center. The whole universe Opens up to you. Once you put. You're able to put yourself in the mindset and the point of view of other people, enter their spirit. That's the single greatest step you can have. So you're about to start your first job, and you're all insecure and you're all worried about you and what people think about you. Try and make. It's not easy. It's not natural. Try and make that switch. And don't think about yourself. And try and figure out what is your boss like? What is he or she? What is motivating them? What are their insecurities? What are their doubts? What is this person feeling? That. And suddenly you're going to navigate this social environment in a much different level.

I love this. This is powerful, I think so. To get in the minds of other people would be the greatest skill by far. And the way to do that, I'm hearing you say, is through empathy, through asking interesting questions, through listening.

No, it's taking this one step, which is other people are more interesting than me. I love going to see movies. That other person is like Hannibal Lecter. I'm sorry, that's not. That's not a good choice. Sure could be, but. Or they're like this other character in some other movie. I don't know. Choose whichever one you want. Right.

Beetlejuice.

There you go.

Okay.

Wow.

That was a long time ago.

Yeah. Just thinking of a fascinating character.

They're like that. They have a. They have stories, they have drama. Right. Their childhood was probably weird. They come from a culture, from a city, from a background that's not your city or background. And to try and understand it now, some people are harder to do that with than others. There are people out there who are like, just total. And you don't really want to have to get into that world. Right. You feel like you're getting yourself taking a shower of mud or something, or excrement or whatever. You don't want to get into the world. But even then, it pays. If you've got a psychotic boss, it pays to get inside their mind so that you don't take things personally so you can understand where they come from. So even with horrible people, being able to understand who they are will prevent you from taking everything personally.

So having the understanding that other people are more interesting than me, having that framework in your mind allows you to.

Look at them differently or as interesting. They have stories to tell. They have a life that's fascinating. They're like a character in a movie. I want to understand it and asking.

Questions allows you to understand it.

You have to be careful with questions because if you're so obvious, you're going.

To tell me about this.

Yeah, yeah. So did you. Did you love your mother? Did your father.

Why are you asking me this? Yeah. So how do we get to know them without being intrusive?

Well, it's an art. So, you know, people love to talk about their childhood. Right.

And their successes and.

Yeah, yeah. But I found like childhood is the main thing. Everyone has this kind of emotional attachment to their experiences as a child, to where they grew up, to their parents, to their family, to their earliest friends. It's got all sorts of emotions surrounding it that are very potent and uncontrollable. So a very kind of slip in question about someone's childhood and then asking a few leading questions and letting them do the talking. So if you're at peppering them with questions, you look like a lawyer or someone who's.

Or someone like me who interviews people for a living.

Right. So you want them to do 90% of the time, 90% that it's obvious what you're doing. 80% or 70. People love to talk. Right. If they do 70% of the talking, they're not even aware that they're doing that. But you're letting them talk, you're letting them be the star. But you find a foothold into their. What excites them and you get them to talk and open up about their childhood and then occasionally a question and then occasionally you go into your own life to sort of show. Oh, yeah, you had that. I have something very kind of similar. Mirroring people is a slightly manipulative trick. I don't doubt that. And I talk about that in Seduction, but it's very powerful. They started telling you things about their childhood that are powerful and you go, yeah, I had something very similar. And you probably have had something similar. Yeah, that's a really potent way of connecting to people. But you've got to be subtle. It's an art to getting people to talk and open up to finding that thing that lights their face up, that gets them excited, you know?

Mm. Yeah. I think the book influenced by Cialdini. I don't know if you studied that, but just likability allows you to. Is one of his main. I think it's seven or eight keys of influence, but he talks about likability. And the more someone can see that they like you through mirroring or through. We have one thing in common, makes them like you more. So finding that commonality Social proof. There's like a bunch of other things. I can't remember all seven of them, but yeah, likability is one of the biggest things. It's one of the reasons why I'm just always trying to have fun, just be playful and kind of ease the moment for people so they can feel like, oh, this is relaxing and fun and playful.

Well, I must admit that's why you're a good interviewer. And I know that because I've had. I've been with many bad interviewers who are kind of tense and nervous and defensive and they're insecure. Right. Then they make you feel that way, but you have an energy that kind of brings out that part of. At least for me, that's good.

Yeah.

That likes to yammer.

How does someone not be insecure? An interviewer, a someone trying to get a job and they're doing an interview with their potential boss. When you're with someone who you're inspired by or higher status or influence position, how do you not be insecure or nervous?

Okay, one simple answer. I mean, there might be exceptions, but it's pretty simple. Do your homework. Be prepared. So if you go into an interview, you're naturally nervous, but if you've prepared the sh T out of it, you research that person, you know who they are, you know what the company is like, you know what the position is, why the other person was fired, what they're gonna need from you, you're gonna feel a lot less insecure than if you just kind of go in and wing it. Right. Okay. So if you're on any kind of project. I talked in the war book about Alfred Hitchcock, the film director, and my wife is a film director. It's a nerve wracking task. You've got an army of 80 people who are all and insecure and ego ridden, et cetera. They're all secretly hoping you fail so.

They can be the director.

Yeah, it's a nightmare, right? And Hitchcock, people were astonished. He'd be on the set, he'd be falling asleep. Oh, oh, really? Okay. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. He was like Buddha. He didn't care. He was never upset or anything. People, how could that be? Directors are the most nervous, bitter people. They're so control freaks. It's because he prepared every detail. He knew beforehand. He knew every shot that he wanted, what the clothes looked like, what the colors, how the framing would be. He storyboarded it in exact detail. And he said that by the time the film was being shot, I was bored because I knew Everything how it was supposed to be so he could be calm down because he was so well prepared. So if you do your homework, it's maybe not going to get rid of all your insecurities and all your nervousness because the degree of nervousness is okay. Because you have to understand the physiology. Adrenaline is a very powerful emotion. And feeling a little bit of doubt and a little bit of fear will drive you and keep you awake and alert. So you don't want to be so confident that you'll just do anything. You want a little bit of tenseness. But if you prepare and you've anticipated the situation, it will get rid of 80% of those doubts that you have.

We were talking about before and I have a couple final questions for you. We were talking about before self doubt, before we started recording. And I'm curious your thoughts on doubt, doubting ourselves and how do we train our minds or our bodies or our life to so that doubt doesn't keep us from accomplishing what we want or keep us from trying something we want. Because I think a lot of people don't do something because they doubt themselves so much from the fear of failure or the fear of success or people judging them. What's your thoughts on this?

Well, the main thing is you have to try something, you have to do something, right? And of course if you're full of doubt and insecurities, it's going to be very hard. And so what separates the person who is going to learn is on the way to success from somebody who won't will be that person who's 22, 23. They tries it, they do it, they take that job and they write that thing or they do that whatever it is that the other person maybe wouldn't try because they're not afraid of failing, right? So a certain level of you can't control that because some people are born that way. I don't know if they're born that way, but something about them in their DNA has given them that drive. But if you don't have that drive, if you have your insecurities, understand pain is a very powerful motivating factor. But if you're 22 and you don't try something, you don't feel the pain. So why not? Then you're 23, then you're 24, you're not feeling the pain. Then you're 28, it's still not feeling pain. And you're 32, you're starting to feel a little depressed and you're 35, man in your 40 you're picking up the bottle, you know, okay, so understand you're 22, that life is very difficult and that you're gonna. You're down a path towards something really, really bad unless you get your act together and try that first thing, because what happens. People have studied fear, and it's very important. And I know back in 2001, I was in Vienna, Austria, and I was watching. I was in a theater. I was in the middle of this very packed audience, and there was a fire, and people were panicking and running around, and I got such a sense of claustrophobia, it killed. I was like, ah. And from then on, I couldn't get on an airplane. I couldn't get in an elevator. I was like, developing major claustrophobia, right? And then I went. I saw a therapist, and she said, you got to expose yourself. You got to go back in that elevator. You got to go back into that airplane. And then you realize it's not so bad, and you'll get over it, but avoiding it, you'll never get over the fear. So take that first step. Do whatever it is that you thought you couldn't do, and don't be afraid, because that is the most important moment in your life. And then you realize it's not so bad. Okay, People are making fun of me. I failed. But they never tried anything. I at least tried it. And I have an idea for my next one. It wasn't so bad, you know, but if you never make that first step, I don't care. The wisdom of Solomon won't be able to help you. Right. He'll always be stopping before you can. So you've got to have the guts to make that first step, and then the doors will open for you.

What I'm hearing you say is it's an experiential event. It's not a theory of, okay, let me think my way out of the fear, the insecurity, or the doubt. It's. It's like, no, I have to practice this and experience the feeling of, I failed or someone laughed at me or I tripped and fell. Whatever it is, you've got to experience it.

You have a good way of summarizing what I'm saying, because you said it better than I did.

Well, this is something I've been fascinated by, because I think so many people doubt themselves, and their doubt is what keeps them from going after what they want. Getting into the relationship, they want getting out of the relationship, they want getting the job, all these things. And they're afraid of failure. They're afraid of success, and they're afraid of people's opinions or judgment when they take this action. And I tell people that the simplest thing you can do is write a list of your biggest fears and insecurities, circle the top one, the one that scares you the most, and then do that until you feel at peace with it, or at least you can embrace it, essentially become Batman of that fear and live with the Bats of that fear, that insecurity, where then it becomes a powerful thing for you. And this is what I did in my teens and twenties from being terrified of public speaking. And I went to public speaking class every single week until I felt like, wow, I feel powerful up here, not powerless. And I did it with so many different things that I was insecure about until they became skills as opposed to fears, insecurities. And so I love that you said you've got to expose yourself to the fear. You've got to re. Go into the elevator, go back to that theater that have the fire and breathe and feel comfortable so you can live your life.

And then we go back to that thought about, you know, that question, could it have been worse?

Yeah.

Well, think of it this way. If you don't try that thing, it's going to be a lot worse for you down the road. You're going to never get anywhere, and you're going to. The pain will be intense in 15 years. You're not feeling it now, but have that hindsight to realize that the worst thing in life, the worst feeling of all, is to see that you wasted your potential, that you had dreams and you never even tried them. And then you're in your 50s, your 60s, you're facing death. Why was I alive? I didn't do it. I could have done this, that or that. Never even tried. Remind yourself of that. You know, they used to have emperors in ancient Rome would have a slave walking by them and whispering into their ear, you're going to die. You're mortal. You might die tomorrow.

You might die tomorrow.

Right? And that was like a reminder of their mortality and that they had to not get.

So wasn't that a story from Marcus Aurelius where he had someone talk to him and say, you're just a man or something? Or was that who it was? I can't remember. But someone had someone just say every day, you're just a man.

Right.

The more powerful he became to kind of keep him more grounded, right? You're just a man or you're going to die.

Or just have that whisper, you're gonna fail. You're gonna. You're gonna be. You're not gonna realize your dreams. You're gonna waste your life. You're wasting your life. You're wasting your life.

You're wasting your life.

You don't wanna feel that way. I know, like, it's hard to. It's. I coming from a position of privilege and I don't deny that.

Sure.

But I was not. I didn't have anybody help me. All my success was pretty much on my own. I worked really hard. But I can tell you this, that prior to my success, I was really unhappy. I was really unhappy. I was very depressed. I even had moments I was suicidal. I felt like I could do something, but I wasn't able to do it. And then the ability to write my books. Now I don't have that feeling anymore. And it's the greatest thing in the world to not ever feel like, you know, that doubt and that depression, it's like a constant exhilaration.

It's amazing.

I finished it. I wrote that book. I did it. You know, I can feel good about myself. And I want other people to understand that you may not. It doesn't have to be a grand project, but it has to be something that makes you feel like, you know, because when you're a child, you have these dreams. Everybody had these dreams. You're gonna be the best basketball player in history. Like me, like I thought I was right. You know, Jewish kid's gonna be a great basketball player. Okay. You know, Or I'm gonna be the best. This. I'd be a great writer. I'm gonna be. Blah. And then you get older and you lose those dreams and it's very depressing. It's very debilitating. And you want to keep some of that child within you alive. And some of that ambition, some of that desire to achieve something great. And having ambition is not a bad thing. It's a dirty word today because people think it means you're selfish. But your ambitions can be towards achieving things that help people as well.

What's the greatest fear for you now that you haven't yet conquered or overcome or insecurity that you're still dealing with?

I don't know those. You know, I haven't, believe it or not, a tremendous fear of failure.

Still after all these massive hits and millions of book sold. And every time you get a. I'm.

Neurotic and I don't deny it.

Every book is a hit and just changes lives.

Well, it's because I don't know if it's from my background, I come home with straight A's and my parents would go, eh, okay, so what's next? Okay, so it's instilled in me some way. I don't know why, but. So I'm writing my new book, my first chapter, and I'm going, this isn't working. It's too intellectual. It's not going to hit people. It's not relevant to their lives. I have to change it. I have to change it. If I write the book like this, people are going to laugh at me. And I go through that every single time in every single book. Now I'm able. It's kind of a split personality because in the back of my mind I know I'm kind of playing a game, but I still play the game and it keeps me motivated and it keeps me working. So I must say, I'm still deathly afraid of failing my readers and of them being disappointed in me. Going, I thought Robert was this great writer and look, he's put out this shit, man. What's wrong with him? He's getting old and soft. I'm still afraid of that.

How do you manifest and attract a partner that you want to be with that has those three keys? The connection, the attraction and the balance that you feel like is the one could be one of the ones. How do you set yourself up to attract that incredible partner?

So, one, you gotta be yourself. So finding yourself is number one, all right? You can't connect with someone if they're connecting with the fake you, all right? That's a false connection. So you have to discover who you are, become confident in that, stand strong in it. Now who is drawn to that person, you know, it's real. All right? And so that's where we begin. Two, you need to exude positive energy, all right? To me, and this is. I think this is very important for women, all right? Because the reality is that it's men or the type of men that a lot of women want aren't going to be drawn to a negative woman. No, there's millions of good women, but that doesn't mean they're positive women, all right? And it's that lack of positive energy that holds them back more than they realize. Really? Yes.

Just like even just saying negative things throughout the day, they might be a good person, but if they're always complaining or negative.

Exactly. And not even just what they say, again, it's how they're coming off. Off.

Because they feel energy, their body language.

Yes. It's like so look at it like this. I tell people all the time, it's not what you say, it's how you make them feel. All right? So you can say all the wonderful things you want, but if in your presence, they don't feel at ease, they don't feel peace, they don't feel that positivity that's still going to throw everything off.

If you say nice things but you have a frown, what's the point?

Exactly. Exactly. And what a lot of women aren't realizing is that their energy is off because they have walls up. They're so scared, they're so fixated on.

Protecting themselves because they've been hurt in the past.

Exactly. Haven't healed from those things. But I tell people all the time, the same walls you've up to protect you are the same walls blocking your blessings. All right? So you don't realize you're restricting your ability to love and be loved because you're walking in fear. All right? You can't walk in fear and expect all these wonderful things to happen. It doesn't work. Work that way. Even in business. The ones who succeed are the ones who put the fear aside and say, I'm going to have faith and push forward no matter what, no matter how it looks in front of me, no matter how many people tell me you're doing the wrong thing, get a regular job, whatever. No, you believe what you need to do and you push forward past that fear. It's the same thing with relationships. You have to push forward in faith, not fear if you want to receive that great relationship. And so, yes, this can happen with men as well. I don't want men thinking they can carry around much of negative energy and they're gonna get a great relationship, but I do think it shoots women in the foot more. Because here's the other thing that people don't talk about a lot. And some people may not like this, but I'm just gonna keep it real.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

It pulls women away from their feminine energy when they're not positive, when they're not positive, and when they're holding on to these fears and have these walls up. And it's the feminine energy that makes the woman, woman so powerful. That is what. That's the tool that is at her disposal that can make the world her oyster. All right? But women have become very detached from their femininity. And the thing is this. If you. A lot of women will say they're not feminine, they're just not that way. I dispute that in most situations, no, you become detached from it. You become uncomfortable with it due to, again, a lack of healing and due to experiences in your life. Now, if you are more masculine, so to speak, and you are happy that way, then by all means continue to live your life as you are. But if you're not seeing things work for the way that you want them to, and you're in that energy, that more masculine energy or more further away from your feminine, then consider making a switch. Consider at least trying it. See the difference. And what I find with a lot of women is that not only is it beneficial to them as far as relationships wise, it's beneficial in the quality of their life. But their health, their health, their peace, their work, you name it. I have a client, she's a doctor at a big hospital. And when she came to me, she was frustrated with relationships, ready to give up on men. Nobody liked her at work. She was just a hard, tough manager. So we worked on her energy, we worked on healing. We got her energy, we got her to embrace more feminine energy. She will swear by it right now. In one month, her whole hospital start to love her. Now, they're all helpful, whether they were women or men. Men started coming out the woodworks.

All right, let me get your number, girl.

Let me get at you, girl. She ended up meeting her soon to be fiance on an airplane two months after we started doing the coaching.

What were the shifts that she made every single day? Like, what was the things that she said, okay, I'm going to not be this way, I'm going to start trying this.

It was one being more conscious of your energy. I think, number one, we have to be mindful of the energy we're giving off. We become so distracted by our issues that we're facing in the world, by our responsibilities. We're not always in tune with what we're giving off. So to give an example, and this is just a small one, even for me as a man, I work out a lot. When I come out the gym, I started to notice I'm very tense, my face is, you know, hard. Exactly. So I've learned to, when I walk out of the gym, take a deep breath, relax the body, relax the muscles, and the energy completely changes. All right? Because, yes, you can become very intimidating as a man, just like you can become very intimidating as a woman. And so you have to be mindful of, are you making yourself more approachable? Are you allowing people to feel more comfortable being around you? And so that starts with being mindful of it, being conscious of it. And one great way to do that is get an accountability partner. All right? Tell someone who has the ability to be positive because you don't want to pick a negative person to be your accountability partner. It's going to throw everything off. But you pick a positive person, you say, hey, listen, whenever I'm being negative, whenever I'm giving that bad energy, let me know. Because now when they tell you, you won't always realize when you're doing it, at least not at first. But once they start calling you out, now you become more mindful of it. Now you can take hold of it and control it. And now you master what energy you're giving off at certain times, and that changes everything.

Wow.

When someone feels like they found the one, and I've heard this a lot, like, I know this is the one, or I thought they were the one, and then it didn't end up working out, and they want to get married, they've decided marriage is for them, they want to be life partners. What are a few of the conversations that they should have to not know for certain, but know for better certain that this is the right decision, this partnership is the right decision to move forward in a long term committed relationship as opposed to just maybe the infatuation behind it or the initial connection or the attraction. What are a few questions they should be asking each other that maybe they haven't asked yet to know whether or not they're setting themselves up for that successful long term relationship?

Okay, number one, how do you envision your role in marriage? All right, People don't go in finding out what the expectations are before they get married. They have this assumption that we're just going to transition from how we are in a relationship to being that way in the marriage. No, no, no, no, no. Because a lot of times things change and the level of expectation raises. Now, in marriage, you also have some people who may think, for example, you may have a man out there who thinks, okay, my job is to court you when we're boyfriend and girlfriend and when we're married, when we're married, I don't got to do all that work anymore. Now I'm your husband, I've given you the ring. Satisfy me, make me happy. You got to find that out because you're setting yourself up for failure if you don't realize he thinks he gets to take time off now that he's married you. Or he may think, as long as I'm paying these bills, don't ask me for anything else. You got to find out. So we need to ask, what do you.

She should be asking that.

Yeah. Both of them should be asking, how do you perceive your role in marriage? What are your expectations from me in marriage? Let's find out what we need, what we're expecting from each other. Number two, making sure our values are aligned. All right, so whether that be spiritual, whether that be even financial values, whatever those things are, let's make sure we're on the same page about it. And if we're not on the same page, are these things we can balance out and work out? All right, so, for example, if. Let's look at it from a financial perspective. If I'm a very frugal man and this woman is a spender, I have.

Friends in this situation, and it's not good. Exactly.

And I'm sure they didn't talk about it in advance. You want to talk about these things and say, okay, how do we view this? What are your expectations as a spender? Are you someone who thinks, well, I got to be able to spend some free money every month, I got to go shopping every month. What is it? Let's come to an agreement beforehand that we're both comfortable with, but let's understand what we're walking into here. All right, Again, we don't talk about these things. We just assume, oh, because she's not asking for money now, she won't ask for money later. That's not necessarily true. Let's find out. What are we expecting? Do our values align in marriage? I definitely think, number three, sexual expectations. I think that needs to be discussed and understood. And again, it's all about compromise. If a compromise can be found. So it's not saying, okay, well, I expected four times a week, he or she says two times a week, and now we're just going at it? No. Well, then maybe we go three times a week, but we make sure the compromise is something that we can both be happy with. When you compromise on something that you're not going to be happy about, you're not compromising, you're sacrificing. And those sacrifice can be good in some instances, not when it's very important to you or it's going to be important enough that it would cause you to wander if you're not getting it. Never sacrifice something that's going to make you want to look at someone else in your marriage. All right, so if you need three times a week to be happy and satisfied, make that very clear. Don't agree to two and then wander. Yeah, exactly. And now you're Entertaining other people because you never set that expectation. Another expectation, as we talked about earlier with attraction, is how we keep ourselves up physically. I do think, what if I just.

Gained 60 pounds in 7 years? And is that okay since we're married now?

Listen, people need to be honest. So like I tell some men, if you can say, you know, what if my wife gained 60 pounds, I don't care. I'm cool with it. And you're going to love her with the same energy and desire that you did 60 other pounds ago, great. But if you can't maintain that desire, that passion £60 later, you need to make that known. Now. You can't be afraid to say, well, that sounds too shallow. So would we rather be shallow now or have a disaster relationship later? Have you cheating on your partner because you weren't willing to be honest in the beginning? All right, same. And women, too. Because an epidemic that's happening is women are less honest about their attraction needs, so to speak. All right.

Really?

So whenever we talk about attraction, letting yourself go, I think people automatically think of the woman letting themselves go. But a lot of men have let themselves go. Absolutely. And have fallen far from what he looked like when they first got married. But she's not always being as honest and straightforward about that. One reason may be because she doesn't want the pressure on her. So that's one issue right there. Or she may be afraid of his ego and think it's too fragile. Exactly. And doesn't want to say anything. But again, if you can't maintain the same passion and desire with that fall off, you've got to be honest about that. So he understands. Because what happens is this. So let's just use this example. He lets himself go. He lets himself go. The sex falls off. All right? And the sex is falling off because she's not as attracted to him anymore, but she's not being honest about it. Now, when she does say anything about whether it's his weight or whatever the case may be, he's going to think you're just making excuses. You're just trying to give a reason not to have sex rather than embracing it, as this is the reality of what's holding us back. However, if we. We had this conversation from the jump and you were honest about this, then I always knew this would be an issue. Now when you bring it back up, it's going to be like, yeah, you did tell me. It just happened. So now it's going to be easier for me to embrace that and actually do something about it.

And have the recognition and awareness about it. Because we'd already talked about it.

Exactly.

Now you do a lot of these events and workshops for hundreds of women at a time. Are women opening up in these experiences when you're connecting with them and saying, yes, I do lose the attraction, like appearances are important to me, or is it not as important? From the events that you've done with the women you've talked to, what is the feedback on appearance and looks?

So I will say this. When it comes to appearance, looks and sex, women aren't as vocal and transparent in a group of people, really. But one on one with you, one on one, different story. So same thing. Like using the sex example. If I ask a group of women, are you getting orgasms regularly? There's going to be women in there who lie because they don't want to feel inadequate. They don't want to be the woman who doesn't raise their hand and say, yes, I'm getting it good. So they're going to be hesitant or not know how to answer it. But if I ask in private now, I'm going to get the real truth. Yes. And now she's going to be very clear about loss of attraction, lack of sexual satisfaction, and all these things. So that's why people have to be careful. Because I think sometimes we're assuming these issues don't really exist because we're not hearing it in that group setting. Don't be fooled. Some women just, they feel more comfortable privately expressing those things. And I've heard it enough times to know this is real. And again, you just have to, even if you haven't heard it enough times, pay attention. There's a reason why we're seeing people fall off in marriage. There's a reason why we're seeing this disconnect. And even when it comes to infidelity, there's a great focus on men who've cheated. But there's a lot of women who've cheated.

A lot of women.

And it's not always for emotional reasons. It's for sexual ones, too. So again, my thing is not to sit here and say, well, it's about who does work. It's about, okay, how do we fix this? How do we make this better? And we have to accept that, yes, there are contributing factors to why we see failed marriages, why we see influence, infidelity, why we see disconnects in our relationships. Let's address the underlying issues and be honest about it so we can get this on the right track.

Wow. Are there any relationships that you're aware of that have open relationships that are successful, or do you think it's very hard to do? Because more and more with the Burning man scene and all these people exploring these things, what's your thoughts on, you know, open relationships or, you know, being together but also having multiple partners?

So I'm gonna be honest. I'm very skeptical of open relationships. Now, I don't want to sit here and say it's impossible for it to be successful because I haven't met everybody and I haven't studied it enough. But I have studied it to a certain extent, and from what I have found is, again, a lot of open relationships stem from one. The perception that one person can't fulfill me. And since one person can't fulfill me, why not have more than one? All right? And to me, find the person who's experienced that deep and genuine connection. They don't have that perception because they had a moment in their life where they met someone that they thought, this could be it. I could put my all into this, and I would be happy with this one person. If you haven't experienced that connection, of course, there's a natural progression to thinking, well, maybe it's not going to work with just one. Can I entertain multiple? If I can even handle multiple. The other thing is, I do think it also stems from a lack of successful monogamy. And when I say a lack of successful monogamy, I don't necessarily mean that they weren't able to maintain monogamy. It's like, okay, if I get in this monogamous relationship and now I get cheated on, or I've had multiple relationships where I've been cheated on, I may start to think, what's the point of trying to be monogamous anyways? Exactly. Why not just get an open relationship? Which one allows me to not be so vulnerable to one person. I now have more emotional control. And what you'll find in a lot of situations is there's still somebody running that show. And what I mean by that is.

One of the people are running the show.

Exactly.

And they're running it in a way that it's protective, protecting them. All right? So I met a woman one time. She was into polyamory. And she said, well, her ideal polyamorous relationship was a man and a woman, but they're not allowed to have other people. All right? So it's like you're trying to control this environment for your sake. All right? For your protection. So that means there's something deeper going on here. So to me, I just tell people, when it comes to open relationships, if you really believe that's your thing, fine. I'm not here to tell people that they can't live their life that way. But I just want you to make sure you've healed from everything first. If you heal from everything and you still feel like this is for you, do your thing.

Do your thing.

But you might be surprised what's going to happen when you uncover and address some of these past traumas and issues. You may not be so inclined to want to be in this open relationship anymore. And again, I would still argue that if you meet that person you have that amazing connection with, it changes the game and it can completely throw you for a loop. Because I've seen people who were once into open relationships and completely shift to monogamy because they met that person and was like, I never thought this could happen, but it's here and I want it. I'm going for it.

Wow.

That'S powerful insight. What about in a relationship that's you've been together for a long time, we've been married together for a long time, and it just feels like it's not working. And you're talking about divorce and both of you aren't happy, but you've got the kids, you've got the home, you've got a lives together, and both of you aren't happy.

Right.

And you've like addressed this and talked about it, you've tried different things that haven't worked.

Maybe.

Is there a way to rekindle those three things and find that connection again?

Maybe.

Maybe you've lost that attraction and imbalance. Is that even possible in these times? Or is divorce the only way to then go find true happiness or connection somewhere else?

If a true connection ever existed in that relationship, then it can be fixed. But that's the key. Did it ever really exist? And we've got to examine that because again, many people have been living off the fantasy of their perception of things, what they wanted to believe it was and wanted to hold on to this feeling of being in love when in reality they were involved in an unhealthy attachment to this individual. So we have to go deeper and find out. Is that there? So if the connection was there, yes, we can work on everything else. We can get things on track. It's going to create a lot of deeper emotional discovery, so to speak. As far as finding out, okay, why is there a disconnect now? How do we fall off of track? How can we now correct these Specific things, because there's very specific things that need to change. Are we both willing to put in that work? All right. And if both sides are willing to do that, then it absolutely can work. Now, if there was no connection, get.

A divorce, get a divorce, get a.

Divorce sooner than later. I'm a man of God and I would love for everyone to be able to stay married. Right? But I.

Even when people have been convinced that you get married, you stay married forever, even if it's a religious thing or you feel like the pressure of society.

Like, here's why, despite those things, you don't stay married, especially when you have kids. So so many people stay married because of the kids, Right? But if you can't create a positive environment at home, you are damaging the kids worse than you would in divorce. Divorce isn't, in my opinion, the greatest struggle for the child. It's lacking the understanding of what just happened here. So if you've been feeding your kids all these years that mommy and daddy love each other and everything's all good, despite our dysfunctional relationships.

And why are we getting divorced?

Exactly. So now one day you wake up, we're getting divorced, the child is confused, confused. And the thing is, we're not honest with the kids about why this happened, what went wrong. We're not saying, yeah, you know what, we knew a long time ago we weren't best for each other. We're not giving them the honest truth for them to learn and not make the same mistakes, repeat the same pattern. Exactly. What the child now thinks is you can't trust love, you can't trust marriage because you can love each other and one day, now it's over, and now they become dysfunctional, or they now have dysfunctional relations because they're skewed perception, perception of things. Because they lack clarity in understanding what just happened here. But going back to divorce versus staying together again, what a child needs more than anything is a positive, loving environment. If you can achieve that together, great. If you can't, you are better off apart.

Wow.

Because when you speak to adults now, adults who are struggling today grew up in dysfunctional households. And it didn't matter if it was a one parent or two parent household. Exactly. Dysfunction is dysfunction. And we pick up on these things. No one is that great of an actor that they're hiding it from their child. The child sees the problem, feels it.

Feels it, feels it.

Exactly. And then you don't even realize you neglect the child in certain ways because you're dwelling in your own issues, your own Struggle. There are women right now who have mommy issues or they have what I call I don't want to be my mother syndrome, where they saw their mother allow herself to be treated poorly, abused, suffered through a horrible marriage, and the woman is like, I don't want to ever be that. And now because she's holding on to that, she either becomes her mother or creates other issues not trying to be her. All right, so it still creates a negative cycle of dysfunctional relationships, all stemming from we stayed longer than we should have. We try to hold on to something that we can't work. My thing is this. Even for those who are spiritual, if you're going to say we're not supposed to get divorced because of God, well, God didn't say act a fool in the marriage. At the same time, like, what's the point Together, exactly how are you glorifying God or your spiritual beliefs by staying in a negative marriage for the sake of staying, you're defeating the purpose. The purpose is to have a healthy, happy union, to raise healthy, happy children. If we can achieve that together, it's time to go. I mean, I wish it could be different, but that's just the reality of the world we live in. Because too many of us have made the wrong decision in who we marry. And we have to accept that. I'd rather you accept that now. Go through your healing process and both you can find your happiness and learn how to coexist as co parents. And again, creating a positive environment in that co parenting relationship. Because I don't want you to be co parents and still be dysfunctional. Exactly. Again, defeating the purpose. All right. I want you to get away from each other so you can find happiness, not be more negative.

Yeah. Heal, move forward.

Yeah, exactly. Be happy. Be happy for them if they found someone else. I know that's tough for a lot of people, but be happy. If they're at peace, you find your peace. Let the children see happy, healthy relationships, not just with other people within yourself. Stop showing them a miserable father or mother. They see it and they hold on to resentment. I can't tell you how many, I won't say every, but I want to say 90% of clients that I've seen and I would argue that if you spoke to any therapist or coach out there, the majority of people have issues stemming from their parents growing up in.

That household or their environment.

Exactly.

Their parents or their environments.

Yeah, exactly. And it's just all dysfunctional relationship. Relationships is the backbone of society. When we allow that to be as dysfunctional as it is right now. That's the reason why we have all these problems. We fix that, man, this world becomes a hundred times better place to live easily.

Why we lined up ourselves so much.

Because it is shameful. And a lot of times we hate that we got there.

We hate ourselves.

We hate ourselves that we got there. How in the world did I get to this place? How do I need these pills to go to sleep or to wake up? How in the world do I have to keep kissing they butt to still work at this job? Like, this is not me. This is not who I want. And so because we have disdain for who we have become, it's like if we acknowledge it, that reinforces that we're actually there. And maybe we can't live with that. And so it's this vicious cycle of faking to make it. And that's why a lot of people say you got to fake it till you make it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Face it, Face it, so you can make it be real so that you can actually move on to there. And a lot of people are delaying the inevitable. You can't hold up a facade forever.

No, it's gonna crumble.

At some point, it's gonna crumble. The sad thing is, a lot of time it crumbles. When it has more people to damage. A lot of times almost always, right? Yeah, a lot of time it crumbles. Now I have three children, and they're in relationships, and now everything's dependent on me, and I've built this empire of podcasting or business or fitness, and now I'm in this space and place that if I'm honest, it'll cost too much. May I submit to you. If you're not honest, it's going to cost you too much. Yeah, I'm already on Lewis.

Let me stop.

So how do. Have you. Have you had to heal in the last 10 years, your relationship, from stuff that happens every year, or is it only stuff from 10 years ago that you guys have to work on?

Bro, you know the answer to this question, man. I'm a. I'm a flawed man.

Yeah.

My wife is a flawed woman. We serve an amazing God. We're people of faith. But he knew we were going to mess up, and there was room in the plan for imperfection. Like, that's what I always tell people because I'm a pastor and people know I'm a person of faith, and they think I'm just going to throw the Bible at them all the time. And What I tell them, I was like, no, no, no, just first look at my life. Like, I've experienced amazing grace and now I have to extend amazing grace and I have to receive amazing grace because I'm still going to mess up. My wife had to forgive me for something before I came up here, you.

Know what I'm saying?

Like, this is a daily walk. But that's why I tell everybody the beautiful thing about journey, if you can get this stuck in your brain and in your heart really, is that this life is about progression, not perfection. I know culture sells us perfection. I know your parents may have wanted perfection from you, I know you've probably required perfection of yourself, but that is the wrong metric. This is about progression. How much did you move forward from yesterday to today or how much did you move past? I know you wanted to cuss them out last week, but you only said one cuss word this week. You know what I'm saying? Or last year it was about being successful, you didn't take any break. But this year you actually took a few days and had soul care and self care and spiritual enlightenment and getting back in your place of faith. Like, how did you progress? And I think for me, in all of my relationships, especially the one with my wife, the one that I'm in covenant with, I have to know that I'm going to need grace because I'm still figuring it out, right? Like there's nobody, anybody on earth that says they're a relationship expert, are liars. Nobody knows everything about all relationships. We're just trying to share from our journey and truth that we've experienced. And I know for me that in the journey that I'm in right now, I make a lot less mistakes than I made 10 years ago.

Right.

Because I've progressed. But am I going to make more.

Mistakes the next 10 minutes?

Probably. You know what I'm saying? And so it is daily. And yeah, there's tons of healing that has to happen from every lie, from every deception, from every wrong word that was spoken. I tell people this because a relationship is all about trust. And this is the thing that people don't really factor in. You can spend decades, years, months building trust, but this is the truth. Trust is lost in buckets, but gained back in drops.

Yeah.

So you could have an entire five gallon bucket of trust built up.

Yeah.

But one thing that you never said you would do, you do and the whole bucket goes out. And now you have to come back in every day drop by drop, drop by drop. You don't Get a fountain of trust built back up. And that's where most relationships fail, is because they lost the trust and they were not diligent enough to build it.

Back up because it takes a lot of hard work.

But the problem is you have history with that person, and a lot of times they would rather start over with somebody else to do the same exact thing instead of going back and.

Yeah, it sucks.

Yeah. No, didn't we talk about this? You know, I don't. You know.

Oh, come on.

But no, this is valuable, and I'm the one who tipped this thing over. And so I'm going to be the one to be consistent enough or disciplined enough to put those drops back in.

What's been the biggest lesson for you in the last 10 years of putting drops back back in over a decade plus with your wife? What's the lesson you've learned as a human being through that discipline, through that daily drop?

Yeah.

After breaking trust back in the past.

Yeah. Yeah. Trust is way more valuable than money. Trust is way more valuable than connection. Trust is way more valuable. There's a book that I encourage everybody to read. It's called the Speed of Trust. And it basically, the premise is that where there's trust, everything takes less energy. Yeah, it takes less money and it has better results. But where there is no trust, it takes more energy, it takes more money, and there are minimal results.

Yeah.

And you can apply this to business relationships. You can apply it to your family. And I think our culture is one that doesn't trust. We. You prove to me and, and, and, and at the moment that we don't go into situations with trust. There's this disconnection that doesn't allow people, like, the vibe's not right or all these different sayings. I think, for me, I've learned that trust is probably a higher commodity than anything else. My greatest relationship, me and my wife Natalie, don't have to be doing anything. But when I'm in a bed, in a hotel with a woman that I fully trust, it's more satisfying than any platform I've ever been on.

Wow.

It's more euphoric. It's more. When I can say something and somebody believes me and I don't have to prove it to them, but they know what I'm saying is real.

That's amazing feeling.

Oh, what are you talking about? Name the places you get that. Name the places you got to make presentations to make people, you pay believe you. Come on, let's be honest, like, because there's still not full Trust there. But when you put in so much trust that that person, your yes is a yes and your no is a no, and they fully trust what you say. Yeah. When I told my wife that I was going to take care of her and I would never hurt her again, and to be able to now, 10 years removed. We just did a 10 year vow renewal and we went out to this sand desert and now it was me and our three kids and we're sitting there and glass Runway, it's on YouTube. And we just like. It was just the most beautiful thing to look into her eyes and say the words unscripted. That came from my heart and to look at her and knew they were hitting her heart. And she fully trusted what I said. You can't tell me nothing. Like, nobody, like, there's no feeling like that. In the sad truth, Louis, is most people will never feel that. They will never know what it is to have another human being with your flaws, with knowing the worst about you. I can't hide from my wife. She knows everything that I do. She knows when I do take showers, when I don't take showers.

She knows when I leave the toilet.

Seat up or when I put it down. She knows like, so in the most vulnerable place. She knows when I do my workout and when I don't. Like, I can't hide from her. I can hide from people on social media, I can hide from people that are that I work with, but from her, I'm vulnerable. And to know when I speak. She trusted it was well worth everything that I had to do.

And what happens if you are 100% in integrity with your word? You're following through, you're being honest, you're showing up, you're delivering in a relationship, but the person doesn't trust you after years and you're like, you have access to my phone.

It's the right passwords.

You. You know where I'm at 24 7.

Yeah.

And you still don't trust me. Is that still my responsibility or is that the other partner's work they get to do?

So the beautiful thing about the story that I'm telling you, I'm telling you from my side.

Yeah.

But if you were to talk to my wife right now, there were things she had to do on her own during this whole process or she wouldn't have made it. She wasn't sitting there, like, prove to me that you were. No, there was self discovery. She was going on, do I want to stay in this relationship? Is this worth it?

When.

What do I Bring, what do I have? What am I worth? And that's why I tell people all the time, no matter if you're a couple, you're still single. Like, even though you're in a relationship, you still have to be single enough to continue to improve. A lot of people stop improving once they get in a relationship.

Like, I got it. Like, what else do I need to do?

I made it, and all that other stuff. But when you are in a relationship, there are still two very single people that need to work on their communication, work on their insecurities, work on their ability to communicate, work. Like, and if you stop developing your singleness in marriage or in relationship, that relationship, come on. Is headed for, at one point, for somebody to be on another level and be like, this is not what we signed up for. Hey, I thought we were partners. I thought we were. We were doing this together. I thought we were growing and going towards this together. And that's why I encourage people all the time. Like, what have you brought to the relationship lately? Like, what skills have you improved? In what? Has your emotional intelligence gone to another level? Has your spiritual awareness gone to another level? Has your faith gone to another level? Has your. Have you learned a new language? So when we go on our vacation two years from now, we don't get swindled at the, you know, like, what are you bringing to the relationship?

Relationship?

And I just would encourage every couple not to focus on. Because when I say this, a lot of times they'd be like, see, you ain't brought nothing to the relationship in three years, Kathy. Like, hold on, hold on one second. Like, no, ask yourself, what have you brought to the relationship? And if you both are asking yourself, that's part of the reason we wrote that, this book, taking your relationship from good to great, because it allows people to evaluate where they're at spiritually, emotionally, and then be able to say, what do I need to change? How do I need to do this? And that's the only way that you can go from good to great in any relationship.

My friend Matthew Hussey talks about this. He talks about relationships from women on how to really attract the right man in their life, the right partner. And he said to me one time, you know, if you want to find a great partner, make a list of all the things you want from them and then become that list yourself. Whatever you want someone else, you need to become that friend first and really add that value to them as well. It's kind of like what I'm hearing you say is, okay, after a year, two, five, 10 years, you have to keep becoming that list yourself to keep that partner excited or engaged and trustworthy and connected. And both parties have to be working on that list.

Is that right? I have a little different perspective on the list because sometimes the list limits.

You who tell me more like, so.

I tell people a lot of time because specifically a lot of my sisters, a lot of they make lists now. They got lists. He got to be 6, 5. He's got to have this amount of money.

But are they becoming the things that they want from the qualities?

Not the, the things.

The qualities.

Yeah.

And that's the thing. Sometimes I do believe that there are certain things that you need to be able to lay out and really ask yourself, am I becoming those things? I. I don't think, though, the package always comes the way you think it's going to come.

Of course.

True.

And so a lot of times, like six, five, shredded.

Yeah.

And all kinds of things, even some of the qualities. Because the thing is, I tell people this, you write down what you want. I believe God factors in with your mate what you need to see. The problem is, like, if you ask Natalie, I'm not what she wants.

What does she want?

She wanted some big Hispanic model for lotion. Like she wanted somebody, you know what I'm saying? The typical beautiful. But what she needed was me. And, and when you look, a lot of people make these lists at the beginning of their list, but somebody needs to start a podcast interviewing couples who actually made it, right? So somebody, you maybe need to do a series of relationships who lasted for 40 plus years that thrived. That thrive, not that stayed together and not that were business partners.

Right.

That thrived. Because if you ask a lot of them, which I did a lot of research writing Relationship goals, the book, when you ask them, most of them did not get what they wanted on their list. They got what they found out they needed. And honestly, the things that I need, I don't never write down on the list because I need somebody to help encourage me when I want to go have ice cream instead of stick to my doctor. I don't write that down on the list. I just write down, I want somebody supportive. Well, in my mind, when I'm writing that down on the list, I'm thinking, support me in whatever I'm feeling at that moment. Maybe not support me in what I've decided in a different moment. And I need that, but it's not necessarily that I want it. And I found out that a lot of times when you Rip up the list and start becoming the best version of you that you can be. You will then begin to see that I am now worthy and worth being with somebody who's worthy and worth being with.

Right.

And you don't settle for a lot less. And that's why I called it a relationship goal. I know it's a proper. A popular term in culture, but I said people aren't doing good at relationship is because they don't have aim. Like they're. They're not aiming at a goal that actually is going to produce the, the greatest end for them. And so that's my whole thought about it. I do believe you got to become your best version, your best self. But then when you do that, a lot of times it creates an entitlement in people that they will. They will dismiss the right thing because of the wrong package.

And what happens if you continue to be your best version year after year and the other person's not willing to go on that journey?

Yes.

Is it till death do we part? Even if they're constantly pulling you down and saying, I'm not going to work on myself. Yeah, you do all the work. I don't trust you. Even if you're 100% honest.

Yeah.

Is it, you know, is that what it is?

There's always provision in a relationship, especially when there's infidelity and there's different things that have happened that there may be. This may be an unhealthy situation that we, that we can't progress in. I honestly feel, though, a lot of people give up too soon on that. Yeah, nothing good ever comes out of the easy way. There is nothing great, I'll say great that comes out of easy. If it's going to be great, there's got to be some work that goes.

Into it, some pain.

So there's got to be some pain, there's got to be discomfort. There's gotta be. Do I gotta do this again? Are we still talking about this? And I really do believe in our society today that we rush into things because we know how easy we can get out of them instead of taking the time. That's honestly why I've written books and done series and millions of people have watched it. Because I'm trying to convince people like, hey, like, take this seriously. It's not just like, oh, we met at the bar, we hooked up, we lived together, now we should make a life together. And I'm not saying that people haven't been in relationships that have worked like that. I'm just Saying that if you had to take a test to get a driver's license and be able to drive legally in your state, it's easier to get in a relationship with somebody.

Thank you.

Build a marriage, have kids that are going to affect the rest of us with no actual preparation, no training. No training, no required reading, no counseling, no honesty. Like, no. Like, hey, just before we get married, let me tell you how much debt I'm in. Hey, just before we get married, let me tell you that your friend and that friend and that friend, I slept with all of them just before. There's no requirements. And that's why I'm saying if. If we don't put that in and build that into the relationships we want, how can we expect? It's gambling. It's like, maybe this will work or maybe it won't. I think we can be more intentional on setting a real goal, and I believe those goals need to be put on principles that have lasted in faith that can last for a long time, man.

What are the main principles that every relationship should be founded upon?

Bro, I wrote a whole book about it. I'm gonna give you three of them. Let me give you three of them. The first thing has to be transparency. Yeah.

About everything.

Everything.

Like, I had this thought. Yeah, I looked at this. I did. Any idea?

So. So I don't. I'll say this. You have to be wise, because you. You. You have to. Depending on the layer of relationship you're in right now. If you just meet somebody today and you don't even know if you want to be with them, I don't think it's wise that you.

You.

You tell them everything. But I do believe that there's a difference between transparency and honesty. And many people have adopted the thought process and the philosophy of being honest but not transparent. Honesty is, when you ask me, I'll tell you the truth.

But until then.

But until then, I'm hiding something.

Yes. And a lot of times, most of us don't get asked the questions that we need to answer because those questions.

Are scary to us.

Oh, my gosh.

They're scary to ask.

And you don't want to know the answer.

And you don't want to know a lot of times. And then it automatically. If the person is not emotionally secure enough, then you're like, what, you don't trust me? Like, there's so many different things that are there. And that's why I always ascribe to the philosophy of being transparent. You don't have to ask me. I'm going to offer it up. I'm going to tell you, hey, when you talk to that guy at the restaurant, that made me feel some type of way and it made me really start thinking about the insecurities of my last relationship and why we broke up. And I'm not asking you to solve it at this moment, but I'm letting you know how that made me feel. And I'm just gonna process with that. There's no question that your mate could have asked to get that response that genuinely. Because then they'll say something like this, Are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine.

Like.

And the truth is, no, you're not. But I don't emotionally know how to let you know that. That honestly, it wasn't really what you did. It's what I've been through. Yes, that triggered something in me. And now I'm insecure about what I know I have, but it's because of what happened to me. Like, sure. But that takes being transparent. And what I found is when I'm transparent, it honestly provides more empathy from the other person to be able to, man, I'm sorry you felt that way. What can I do? And like, that then is deepening that relationship more than it is creating a wedge between it. So I would say, number one, transparency has to be the top thing that you have in a relationship.

All right, that's number one.

I think that you need to have common faith goals. I think for me, a lot of things that I found in relationship is a lot of people like each other, but what their faith is founded on are two totally different things. And I think you should be equally yoked in the or equally compatible in the things that you believe. And when you do that, it's more easy. It's easier to have conversations about how to raise children, finances. It's easier to be able to go to. For me and my wife, we're Christians that believe in the Bible. And so there are certain things that we disagree, agree on, and then we can go to the Bible and we're like, okay, but this is something that we believe together. Let's wrestle through this. Let's work through this. Let's. How does that make you feel? Let's ask somebody. There's so many problems that have been solved because we believe the same things foundationally in our faith. And I'm encouraging people a lot of times that when you do that, it creates a foundation that moves past emotions. A lot of times that, yeah, it's just like, well, I can't get it. And I can't get it. But then when you go to certain things, love is patient, love is kind, love keeps no record of wrong.

Dang.

First Corinthians 13 is jacking me up right now. Love offers forgiveness.

Love.

Oh, love is long suffering. Like, these are words that we have adopted from a book that we believe has truth in it and principle to live by. And because we're on the same level in that faith, it corrects us sometimes when we don't want to be corrected. And that's where I tell people the Bible is one of the only books you can read, that when you read it, it reads you. Like, and. And for us, that has helped us. And so transparency, having strong faith foundations. And then the third thing that I would say is fun.

Yeah.

If you cannot have fun with the person that you're in relationship with, good luck. Like, because there's certain things.

Life is hard.

It is hard. There will be trouble. It's promised. But. But if you can find somebody to look at in the. In the darkest part of the valley and laugh and laugh with them. It happened to me and Natalie on the plane yesterday. I told you before, we brought two of our daughters with us, and they're seven and three years old, and we're on a plane from Tulsa to la. Three and a half hours. You can imagine all the fruit snacks and the iPads and all of the different things. Crying, just the whole nine. And my wife is pregnant right now, so put that on top of it. So. And she's trying to eat, and I'm sitting in the chair next to her, and something drops off of her plate, and I can just. I can see break down just right up ahead like a movie. And I just love. Look at her and just start laughing. And she sees me and she breaks out, and for 20 minutes, laughing. We are dying on the plane. Not because everything's good, because we have somebody to be through and go through everything with us. And that joy, I mean, literally, we got off the plane and all the other stuff she said, I haven't laughed like that in so long. And she just kept laughing about it. And those are the moments that I found. Like, I told you a little bit before, but our son, MJ, he's 5, he was diagnosed with autism. And this has been the greatest emotional faith journey that we've been on. He's five years old, still nonverbal. I'm the guy of faith. I lead a church. I'm a pastor. I believe. And in my home, there's a situation that has not changed yet. And it's challenged every time. Thing. The one thing that has gotten us through, or excuse me, the three things that have gotten us through. The three things I just gave you, transparency, our faith foundation, being the same and being fun. I wouldn't be sitting here today talking to you on my way to a fourth child after my wife battling depression, me challenging my calling, trying to figure out why is this happening at the moment where everything great in my life is happening. And it's those three things. Being transparent about how I felt and my emotions and her being transparent about how she felt and her emotions. And having our faith anchored to something that was stronger than us and us having fun that I told you before we came in here, I am having the most fun in relationship. I'm not faking. This is authentic. This is the joy that I have to be. Because we have decided that there are some principles we have to live by that that most people are going to show you in reality television. Most people aren't going to give you in a blog or a tabloid and it has to be lived out. And that's what we're trying to do.

Before we continue this video, make sure to subscribe below and turn on the notification bell right now so you don't miss out on these great videos every single day. What's your definition of chemistry, connection and compatibility?

All right, so chemistry to me is the art of getting along, flowing with each other. All right? Chemistry can be created, it can be destroyed. Think about it from a team sports perspective. You can put players together and they have to build team chemistry. So through repetition, through practice, they can get to a point of having chemistry. Yes, some people have instant chemistry. All right, but just as it was instant, it can also be broken instantly. Exactly. You know, we can start to not get along and not flow with each other very easily. Things can get in the way. And again, this happens even in team sports or even in the corporate arena where you have team building exercises. But then things happen that destroy the structure of the business.

Absolutely. So that's chemistry.

That's chemistry.

How important is chemistry?

It is still very important. It is not the most important. And I say that to mean chemistry has to be in every relationship for it to work and flourish, but it does not set the stage for everything else. All right? Connection sets the stage for everything else. So basically, if you have connection, you will be able to have chemistry and compatibility. But now let's talk about compatibility. I believe compatibility is a very logic based structure of putting two people together. It's also about, we're compatible in the sense that we share values. All right? So again, you can meet someone that you are compatible with. You guys share similar values. You guys come from even maybe the same kind of cultures. There could be a lot of things that make you guys compatible on paper.

But what is real compatibility?

Well, to me, that is real compatibility, so to speak, is that, yes, you guys on paper are a good fit. All right? And you guys should work. But again, without connection, it won't matter. So I would argue that a lot of marriages. Let's even talk about arranged marriages. Some of them were built on compatibility. Well, this person came from the right family, so we like this. They have a good job, they have a good education. They would be a good fit. Here. They share the same values. But when those two people are really alone with each other, it doesn't always hit. Which is why if you go on an online dating site, it can match two people together that are compatible on paper.

Interesting.

But in person, it doesn't always play out the same.

Because what is missing?

The chemistry, or more importantly, the connection.

And sometimes we might be tricked. Oh, we feel the spark of chemistry, but you may not have connection. Is that true?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

So you might say, oh, we're compatible on paper, everything. We have the same values. We want the same things for our life and marriage and kids and where family's going to be. We have compatibility, we have chemistry. There's some type of spark here. I feel like, ooh, there's a little something down here.

And we get along and we know how to flow.

That's amazing. But you're saying if we can't find true connection, or if there isn't connection, can connection be created?

No. And so that's the huge distinction to me with connection. Connection cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed. It's either there or it's not. Wow. There's nothing you can do to build connection. You can build a stronger bond. You can create a stronger attachment to each other, but that still doesn't mean connection is there.

1.

And you see this play out in situations where you have people who could meet each other right now, have this amazing connection. Something happens where they fall apart. They come back together years later, 10, 20 years later, and it's like they never stop talking. It just falls right back into place. It's connection. It's a deeper thing that's occurring there. To me, connection is your spirit recognizing its match. It is something that is happening beneath the surface of the. All right. Which is why Many people who have felt connection, you can't always explain it. Connection does not always line up with the logic of compatibility. It's not always, oh well, it makes sense because of this. No, no, no, no. It's just there. You just feel something with this person. You feel drawn to them. It's so much deeper than anything you've ever felt. And consider this. You can be compatible with tons of people. You can have chemistry with tons of people. You do not feel connection with a bunch of people, period. If we were to survey people who have felt a connection in their life, you'd be lucky to find many who can say two times, wow. The majority will say it's a one time occurrence that has happened to them. All right? And being able to have that again, it's very difficult. Now, I don't want anyone listening to be discouraged if they did not end up with the person they had a connection with. I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen a second time, but I will say that if you surveyed people, you would have a hard time finding that many people that say it said it happened twice.

When does someone know it's connection and not chemistry? Because I feel like you might be tricked. We have this incredible connection. We understand each other, we get each other. I can't explain it, but I feel something. That feeling might be also chemistry at time. The same.

Same time.

Right.

It might be masking.

Yes.

If it's really connection or chemistry, how do you know if it's true? Connection over man. This is desire, connection, attraction. All these things happening at once.

One, can you truly be yourself with this?

That's big.

All right? Because again, a lot of people, they go on these dates, they're bringing their representative, and the chemistry happens on a surface level with the representatives that both, both sides are bringing. But when you actually show your true self now, what happens? And a lot of people have not done that with their partner or the person that they're getting to know. So again, you're falling into the hype of the chemistry or the compatibility, but you're not discovering true connection being there. So you've got to be able to be yourself because real connection loves you at the core. All right, you can show me all the parts of you I still want, want you. All right, Number two is can we enjoy each other with no distractions? All right, Again, what people fail to understand, and this can happen with chemistry, is that we're bonding based off of the activity or the things in our environment. Meaning, all right, we love Going out together and we do all these fun stuff, and we're doing all these things, and that's great. All right, we know how to have fun together. But can we be alone in a room, no tv, no distraction, no phone, just us and still love being with each other? A lot of people can't say that. A lot of people are only able to be in their relationship and tolerate their partner. And I use that word strongly, tolerate their partner. Because they have enough distractions in life. They have kids, they have work, they have all these other things.

Tv, video games, man, caves, whatever.

Exactly. All these things that pull them away from their partner, that does not allow them to face the fact that, no, you really don't like each other at the core, man. And so that is a huge sign of connection. That's why, like, one of the things I suggested in one of my books was go on a road trip. And it's just a random suggestion, but go on a road trip for at least six hours, no phone, no distraction, just you and them talking. Will you still be happy after those six hours? A lot of people can't make it that far in a car ride with their partner. All right? A lot of people cannot be in a room alone with their partner and nothing else to take their attention. So you've got to really push those boundaries to see what do we really have here if this is really going to be called a connection. Right.

And your fear is, are you able to grow together after 10, 15 years? Is that one of the main things?

So it's, you know, it's hard to, you know, you never. You never can look that far ahead, you know, and we don't know what's in store.

May not be here tomorrow.

Exactly. It's a concern of can we still give that same energy? And it's both sides, because, again, I'm not saying I'm not perfect. So even though I'm confident that I could do it, what if there's something that throws me off? You know, it's just that, yes, as time goes on, there's that test of really putting your best foot and bringing that same energy that you brought in the beginning. Now, again, I think I'm holding myself to a higher standard than I think most people do, because I think that a lot of people's mentality is, well, things change. Things are going to be different. It's okay, so what, you don't go out as much anymore. People think like this, but they don't realize that's why your relationship is deteriorating.

Right?

I don't want a deteriorated relationship. So when I think about, yes, can I be with someone past 10, 15 years if I accept a level of mediocrity? Of course. But you don't want that. Exactly. I'm saying, can we maintain excellence after these 10, 15 years?

Fulfillment.

Exactly. Peace, happiness, all these things. Because to me, what is the point of being here if we don't have it, if we're not operating at our highest level?

What about. What about the saying that I hear? Whether this is a meme or this is women saying this online? Maybe you know the line better than me. If he can't accept me at my worst, he doesn't deserve me at my best.

I hate that line. I absolutely hate it. And I hate it because it has turned into validation for not addressing your flaws and issues. All right, I agree with it from the standpoint of you've got to be able to handle your partner's worst moments. All right? Because we're going to all have moments. We're going to all fall. We're all going to make a mistake. It's going to happen over time. That's just the way it is. But when you are essentially trying to say, I have a horrible flaw and you should accept it, even when I want to consistently make you deal with it, no, that's not gonna work for me. I can't accept that. That's not okay. And so a lot of people. That's what they're turning it into.

That's you not taking accountability and responsibility for growth.

Exactly.

Going back to. Okay, this is where I'm at. I don't want to address it. You just have to accept it and. Or don't be with me.

Exactly. You know, it reminds me of, like, once upon. I don't know if they still say it, but I know at one time people would say arguing is healthy for a relationship. All right, I decided.

I don't know if I agree. I understand that. Yeah. I just don't like that.

No. At all.

Can you communicate with. We don't agree on this, but do you have to argue?

Exactly. That's my thing. Disagreement is acceptable. Disrespect is not. All right. So say one more time, disagreement is acceptable. Disrespect is not all right. So my thing is you. Yes. It's okay. And even healthy to have disagreements because we have different perspectives. We can bounce ideas off each other. We simply have to know how to navigate that and come to an official decision on things when we have those moments. But arguing. Arguing says we are being disrespectful. Whether our tone is negative, the words that we're using, you know, we're getting loud, we're getting angry. We're basically throwing negative energy at our partner. That's not healthy. There's nothing healthy about that. But a lot of people will say that because they want to validate the unhealthiness in their relationship. They don't want to face the issue of, I need to learn how to talk to my partner better. I don't want to have to fix my tone. Why do I have to watch what I say? Because that's what an adult does.

Wow.

All right. Grow up. You know, like, I'm sorry to anyone listening to this, but that's the real. We can't just think it's okay, especially with our partners, to speak. However, we want to throw all kinds of insults to be disrespectful and think this is okay. Because what people are not realizing is all it takes is that one really bad argument to plant a seed of negativity that now grows into something worse in the relationship. A lot of people's issues are not the issue that they're facing in that current moment. It's the culmination of all kinds of things before then. It's the buildup from that last time you disrespected me or made me feel some kind of way. And ever since then, I've resented you. And now in this resentment, I've given you an attitude. You didn't know what the attitude was about because I didn't communicate clearly. Now you're giving me attitude. And now you see how it turns into other things. Now that attitude turns into not having sex with each other. That attitude turns into. Okay, the way that we talk to each other in general, maybe becoming secretive because now we don't feel like dealing with each other anymore. And what you don't realize is it started from disrespectful arguing.

Wow.

All right. It can also start from some other stuff. All right. But arguing is a huge problem for a lot of people, and we can't just keep sweeping under the rug. So going back to your point about the whole take me at my worst. Yes. Worst moment.

Always like this. And once in a while, a good attitude.

Exactly.

Consistent negative behavior has to be addressed and corrected.

So arguments are disrespect, but disagreements is okay? Is that what you said?

Disagreement is acceptable, disrespect is not.

Yes. So you can always disagree. And you can agree to not agree.

Yeah.

Or you Can. Is that right? Agree to disagree.

Yeah, agree to disagree.

But you. But what I'm hearing you say is that arguing, saying what's on your mind in an angry, aggressive way, tearing down a partner is never going to do anything good for someone.

Exactly. People have to understand whenever someone feels attacked, they will defend themselves. Even if they know they're wrong. Even if the point you're making is actually solid, the way you're coming at them negates their ability to receive it. That's why even me, as a speaker, my focus has been, do I want to be heard or do I want people to receive my message? All right, if I want to be heard, I can speak however I want. I can be blatant with the insults. I can cut people down. I can just make jokes of everybody's situation because it's entertainment. I just want to be heard. But no, I want people to receive it. And if I want people to receive it, I have to be more considerate, more compassionate. I have to check my tone. I have to be careful with my words. And that's why people watch my videos. They'll see. I try to be very careful with my words because I want you to receive what I'm saying. So if we're in a relationship, we have to take that approach. If you want them to hear you, be mindful of how you're talking to them.

Why is this so hard for people?

Because again, they don't want to face the. Or they don't want to do the work of correction. All right? And the work of correction can entail the healing. And again, facing those issues, it's also conditioning. If people have been brought up in households and environments where this is how they talk to each other, it's very hard to change. Yeah, it's foreign to now speak in a more loving and positive way. It's foreign to sit and be quiet and listen. All right? So now they have to reprogram themselves, and that's a lot of work. And I think also the acceptance of the way you're communicating is wrong. People don't like to face that they were wrong. They don't want to have to accept that. So it's. No, I have to dig even deeper hole and stick with this whole negative approach of how I do things. Because, no, there's nothing wrong with this. Or I see other people do it, you know, they're fine. No, they're not fine. They're not okay. You know, So I think those reasons just over overall. They don't want to have to do the work. And so they rather make excuses for it.

So it sounds like, again, we go back to step one, healing. If you can learn to heal, you can start to improve the quality of your choices. Dating someone in a relationship or getting out quicker. You can be a more effective communicator in relationships, Whether you're dating or in a long term committed relationship. You can have a better relationship overall with yourself when you heal and with someone else. So can you give me a breakdown, a Boot Camp 101 on how to recognize what you need to heal and then how to start healing that? What does that look like for someone? Okay, I need to heal. Sifon, what do you mean by that? How do I do it? How do I get started? How long does it take to get healed? Is this a lifelong journey? Is this overnight? What does it. It look like?

All right, so first thing, how long does it take to heal? It's going to take as long as you're willing to put in the work. Healing is not a time thing. It's a work thing. So when you hear people say, time heals all wounds. No, it doesn't. Time alone doesn't heal a damn thing. All right? It can help. It does aid in the process, but by itself, it is no good. You have to take certain steps. So when people think, well, I'm going to take a year off from relationships to heal, why a year? And if you're not doing the work in that year, that year means nothing. And that's what happens to a lot of people. They took a year off, but what they did was they hid from the world, they hid from relationships. They went in their corner, all right, and distracted themselves, but they never healed. Now they come back out of that year and they're still the same person.

Or maybe they're not the same. Maybe the first few months of dating, they're a little different. But then they fall back.

Exactly. Because they never resolve things. At its core. Now, in terms of recognizing what to heal, my first step is it's called the who hurt me list. All right, so you get a piece of paper, you write down a piece of paper, who hurt me? And now every person who comes to mind, you write them down on the piece of paper. It doesn't matter how long ago it happened.

Doesn't matter.

If you think, you move past it, if you think it's not relevant. If they come to mind, then there's some level of relevance there. Put them on the paper in about a sentence or two of what they did to Hurt you. All right, this is how we're going to start to locate what you've been holding on to. But you really got to go into this exercise very genuine. You can't be trying to control the narrative. You just got to let yourself feel. Just ask yourself the question. Close your eyes, Let it come out.

What's the question? They should ask? Who heard me?

That's it.

Who heard?

That's it.

And what if they're like, I can only think of, like, three people that really hurt me. Should it be thinking of, like every instant they can think of from childhood of that one comment, or should this be. This person punched me in the face.

Anybody who comes to mind. So I don't want them to force it, but I don't want them to under undermine it in any kind of way either. Just whoever comes to mind, put them on the paper. Because even if there's a situation where you forgot got somebody, if we tackle the big one, you're not gonna be able to escape the big ones. The big ones are gonna come out. They're gonna come to mind. If we can tackle those, then that might set the stage where everything else gets taken care of naturally.

Sure, sure.

All right. Because now your awareness is going to be there, and your level of healing will allow you to see things differently.

Because really, the big ones might be the ones that cause the most pain. And if you heal that, the other ones are just a pattern of the pain.

Exactly. And you will also start to perceive those situations differently once you've healed from the bigger ones.

Okay, so that's step one. Take. Take a piece of paper, write it out. How long should this take? A few minutes, few hours, depending, depending on the person.

Because, you know, for some people, it's going to get heavy. It's going to get heavy. And that might cause them to want to pause and take a step back. But I would encourage them, do not, like, walk away from it completely. Stick to it. But it can be as quick as a few minutes. Maybe it takes an hour because they may get emotional. Emotional in the process. But just don't run from it. But just. Just do it. Don't even worry about the time. Just do it. Okay.

Step one, step two.

Step two. So step two, I'm gonna lay this out. You don't lay it out. But you know what? I feel like I gotta do it today.

Bring it.

I gotta do it today. So step two is we gotta get things off our chest. All right?

Okay.

And this is where we do the letter writing process. So there The. There's two parts of the letter or two drafts. The first draft is the most important. This is where we're going to have essentially an emotional detox. We got to get everything out. So let's say on the list is your mother. I always bring up mothers because so many people have mommy issues, but the world only wants to talk about daddy issues, all right? And society has made it to where it's almost wrong for you to tell a woman she was a bad mother or to criticize your mother. So we suppress that a lot more than we do our fathers.

That's interesting.

You know, so let's say it's your mother, and you're going to do the first draft. And in that first draft, you're just going to let all your raw emotion out. I don't care if you curse her out. I don't care if you wish death on her. I don't care what nasty, evil thing you say. However you feel, let it come out. You've got to let the anger, the hurt all pour out of you into this letter. If you don't know how to start the letter, start it with the most damning thing you could say, all right, I hate you, because, boom. And then just go from there. It's going to start coming out once you uncork that screw. That's it exactly. And this is where it gets heavier. A lot of people may take a lot more pauses in this process, all right? Because again, so many people have been suppressing this for so long. And again, it's like any other detox. When you start to detox, the bad stuff has to come out first, all right? And you can't get to a healed place unless you flush out all the negative energy. So this is why it's important. This is not the draft to be politically correct, to try to frame things in the right way. I don't want you to be considerate. I don't want you to think about, well, I did some wrong things, too. Forget all that. This first draft is let it rip. Let it rip, let it out. And I guarantee you by just doing that first draft, you're going to feel better. You're going to feel a weight come off your shoulders. You're going to feel more peace to you, right?

That's the draft one draft.

Draft two. So draft two is essentially. Now, I always tell people, all right, you finished draft one. Pray, meditate, whatever you got to do. Just get to a kind of level place. Mentally calm. Calm. And now read the letter to yourself as if you were them. Oh, okay. And now, so put yourself in their shoes. And anything that now comes off as attacking, condescending, blatantly insulting, you're going to change it. You're not changing the message. You're just changing your delivery of the message. All right? And the importance behind this is twofold. One, we talked about it earlier. People don't know how to communicate without being negative. Their tone, their delivery is horrible. So this message letter is going to help you learn how to take your negative emotions and thoughts and now turn it and reword it into a much more loving, positive message. Now, loving positive does not mean you won't say some things that aren't hurtful to them or a hard pill for them to swallow. There's just a difference between lashing out and expressing how you feel. Saying, this is how you impacted my life. This is how I perceive things. Rather than, you're this, you, you're that, you're this. That's the first draft. But the second draft is just. You're just changing your delivery of the message. So by the end of it, you have fully expressed yourself, but in a more calm, loving manner. This is going to allow one. It's going to teach you how to be better in your communication.

Interesting.

But also, and this is the part people aren't going to like. And I won't go too deep into this part for those who may have to send it. And I would just suggest getting the book to see if they got to send it or not.

All right?

Because it breaks all of this down. But for those who do have to send it, it's going to give you a much greater chance of great things to come from that letter. Not that that's the focus of the letter. The focus of the letter is for your healing. So I don't care if you did send it and they never responded. I don't care if they sent. If you sent it and they rejected everything you said in it. Because the purpose is your release of all those emotions. All right? And you've got to embrace forgiveness. And forgiveness is another piece of this healing puzzle. Forgiving them and forgiving yourself as well, that's the real focus. But I have seen amazing things happen because of these letters.

Really?

Yes.

People receiving them.

Yes. I've seen.

These are not letters that you send out that say, you're horrible, you ruined my life. That's not draft one. You're sending out draft two, which is more of a place of, this is how this scenario impacted me.

Yeah.

This is how more of Responsibility as well. How it made me feel is that.

I'm hearing you say, absolutely, yeah. Because it's very different to accuse someone and attack someone versus saying, but this is how I received it.

Right. Whether you're right or wrong.

Exactly. Because also understand this hurt people hurt people. And some people might reject that because they say, well, I'm hurt and I never hurt nobody. That's a lie. Whether you realize it or not, you have hurt people. One example I'll give that comes to mind. Let's say you're a woman or a man and you were hurt in your last relationship, and now you've become guarded. Now, to you, you're still operating as a loving human being, but what you don't realize is your guardedness is still hurting either the potential partner or someone that you do get with because you're unwilling to give them your whole heart.

Wow.

All right. So you still.

You're not attacking them. Maybe you're not punching them or cheating on them, but you're holding back.

Exactly. And you're still undermining the relationship. So you're still hurting them, and you're hurting yourself because you're not allowing yourself to experience the full greatness of it because you won't fully dive in because you're scared and you're guarded. And that has to be fixed. But going back to the original point I want to make is in that same mold, the hurt person does not always realize how much they're hurting you. We have to understand that damaged individuals are operating from a very selfish mindset. It's I'm protecting myself. Think about the person who is overly critical of everyone else. They're always criticizing, criticizing, criticizing. They're not doing it because their intention is to hurt others. They're doing it because they want to keep the spotlight off of them and to protect themselves from criticism. So I'm going to hit you before you hit me.

Dang.

All right. So again, a lot of our parents, the things that they did, they did not understand. And even if they had some semblance of an idea, they're so caught up in their own feelings, they're blinded by it. So a lot of times this letter basically takes the blinders off when you do it in that loving manner, because like I said earlier, do you want to be heard, or do you want them to receive the message? The yelling, the screaming, the lashing out. They heard that because you may have done that with them in the past, but he never received you in that moment. Now, expressing yourself in a calm loving manner, they can't help but receive you. And even those who reject what you're saying, trust me, it has hit them in a way nothing else has in a relationship.

You are on thin ice. And the sun is coming out because.

Melting.

Right, right, right. Because again, what happens happens is you're not free.

You're not free.

You're not actually giving from your heart.