In this conversation, Lewis Howes reflects on a pattern of five or six early‑20s relationships that each ended in therapy, prompting him to redesign how he approaches romance. When he met his partner Martha, he deliberately postponed physical intimacy, insisted on early, deep value‑based conversations about money, children, marriage, and agreed to attend therapy together if they committed. He explains that his previous reliance on intense chemical or "toxic" chemistry felt exhilarating but lacked spiritual depth. By prioritizing mental alignment and mutual respect, he feels safer and more spiritually connected. Speaker B reinforces this approach as an "old‑school" mindset of integrity, emphasizing getting to know each other's minds before physical involvement. The dialogue highlights the contrast between fleeting, high‑energy toxic connections and lasting, spiritually grounded relationships built on shared values and intentional communication.
Chapters
I had five or six kind of long term, one to two year, three year relationships from my, you know, early 20s until I met Martha. And none of them ended well, and they all ended in therapy. And so when I met Martha, I said, listen, I'm going to do things completely different. We're not going to be intimately until a certain period of time. I want to really get to know you. And also, if we get committed in a committed relationship in our dating phase, I want to go to therapy. In the beginning, my man put the.
Ball in his court immediately. He goes, you ain't getting none of this until you sit down with me.
It's true, though, because I was sick of creating chemical connection with people without having values conversations, without really getting to know their heart. And in making sure that we were in alignment and had agreements. And so early on, I was talking about money conversations. I was talking. We were talking about kids, we were talking about marriage, we were talking about whatever. And for me, I was afraid to have those conversations because I wanted to have fun in relationships and I didn't want it to feel too serious. But this time I was just like, I'm tired of living in pain of all these past relationships because if we don't have the priorities conversations, the value conversations early on, we're gonna have fun and then have pain at some point in the relationship because we're not in alignment.
You know, what you're spitting to me is very old school mentality. When people had class and integrity for themselves. You know, I'm saying, like, women were just putting themselves on the map like that, and men weren't out there disrespecting women thinking that they could just grab whatever they want and leave. So bringing that old school mentality, I feel like America's rebuilding that, that old school history of like, hey, why don't we get to know each other? You're beating the flesh first.
Yes.
And then you're putting your mind on the table and being like, okay, do we get along here? And then now we could get to the physical. Not to try to be disrespectful just from a learning curve. Was the physical way better? After you got like the whole mental state, did you feel safer?
I was definitely safer and more spiritual. So I don't know. You know, toxic can feel really good. Yeah. Oh, God. You know, it can feel chemical to it. Yeah. It's like it can feel great, but it doesn't have a spiritual connection.
Yeah.
And so, you know, if I think back to my 20s or whatever, like, that toxic or energy chemistry felt so high, so. Felt so extreme. And I've never been drunk or high in my life. I've never. I don't drink. I've never been drunk. I never smoked all that stuff. So I don't know what being drunk or high feels like or on drugs feels like, but I know that toxic energy, that kind of chemical energy of connection, and it is a rush. And this is a different type of spiritual connection that I've never felt before.
