An Uncomfortable Conversation With A Black Man... | Emmanuel Acho & Lewis Howes

I'm gonna say this again so people can let this sink in. It wasn't enough to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration. If we really wanted to change our world. I think you gotta have a dream.

The School of Greatness.

Really? Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest, Emmanuel Acho in the house. My man. Ah, my guy, it's good to see you. I am excited to have an uncomfortable conversation with a black man. We have a lot of similarities in our life. We both grew up in kind of predominantly white schools.

Yep.

Then played professional football. You were much more talented than me. I played arena football, but I was one of the few white guys on the team in Alabama in the south.

Okay.

You also went from a white school to the NFL, which is mostly black culture.

Yeah.

And what was the biggest culture shock for you being a black person at a white school system, then being in black culture in the NFL?

Yeah, man. So my big, really like white school school system I speak of is high school. So, I went to a private school from grades, it goes from grades one through 12. I went to this private school from grades five through 12. And so, I show up and I'm like, where are the black people at? So, I show up my graduating class for example, bro. 75 people like three or four or five were black. And so, for me, I'm getting all the time Emmanuel, you don't even talk like you're black, right? Emmanuel, you don't even dress like you're black or Emmanuel, you're like an Oreo, black on the outside, white on the inside. And so I started to become confused, Louis, 'cause I was like, wait a second, maybe I'm not black. 'Cause I remember, I'm Nigerian culture. My parents born and raised in Nigeria. There's a difference, people, between color and culture. You can be black and be white cultured. You can be white and be black cultured. We see it much less frequently because America is a white world, so it's very hard to be white and live in an exclusive black world, but you can be black and live in an exclusive white world. So I was questioning my own blackness because everybody was like, oh, you're not that black. I'm like, I mean, I don't have a band-aid under my eye like Nellie. So maybe I'm not that black. So then I get to college at Texas and while Texas's campus is still white, my world is black. My college experience was black. 'Cause we playing football, 80, 90 people on that roster that are black. Coaches, you know, besides your head coach, coaches, they black. Strength coach, black. My culture there is Black. Then you get to the NFL and the only difference there is now, it's the same Black people, but now they have money. And so it's just like, it's the Black culture on steroids.

Right.

Not literally, but figuratively speaking on steroids. And so there were so many transitions for me, bro. Like I was so confused when I got to college. It was a wild time.

Did you ever feel like you needed to become, you needed to do things to fit in more in college or the NFL in that Black culture that you weren't doing from growing up or high school? That's a good question, bro. We're like, oh, I don't know, I'm just putting out there, guys are getting more tattoos, I feel like I gotta get a tattoo.

Guys are whatever, doing their hair a certain way, I gotta do my hair a certain way. That's good. No, but I felt like I could finally be me, 'kay? I didn't have to do anything more, but I felt like, oh, I could finally be me. In my high school, for example, dudes weren't really just rocking dreads, you know what I'm saying? In my high school, again, we had certain strict, stringent rules. I don't know how public schools are.

Dress codes all the time.

I was a proper high school kid. We wore gray slacks, white button downs, couldn't have facial hair, for example. Couldn't have long hair, all that jazz. So I draw the parallel to Tarzan. Remember the movie Tarzan?

You ever see Tarzan?

We all love Tarzan. Tarzan, remember, although he was fully human, he grew up around animals. So he lived his life believing that he was an animal until he saw humans. Then he was like, wait a second, y'all look like me. See, I grew up around white people. Now on Sundays I was going to church in the inner city, and on Wednesdays I was going to church in the inner city, and my house was Nigerian culture. But Monday through Friday, I'm going up around white people. Then I get to college, I'm like, wait a second, y'all talk like me. Y'all walk like me. Now there are some cultural disconnects, you know what I'm saying? Like, now I'm around, black people from the country, black people from the city, black people from the hood. But I didn't have to change me. I could just be me a little more. I'm going to end kind of even as an adult, I have my hair kind of in a mohawk now. Now, when I first started on TV, fade, all the way even all around, because that is more appropriate for kind of the white world in which we live. So, I didn't want anything I did, it's called code switching, we can go into that later, but I didn't want anything I did to be perceived by a white employer is a different way. So it was very similar. It was like, okay, now I can be, but now everybody knows I'm intelligent, so now I can just be me. So now I can be like my fullest version of myself.

Without having to worry about what someone's gonna say or do or whatever.

Correct.

What's the most uncomfortable conversation you've had with a white person so far?

That's a good question. The most uncomfortable, so here's the kicker. People hear uncomfortable and they think like, I'm gonna be uncomfortable. Just because it's uncomfortable doesn't mean I'm gonna be the one that's uncomfortable. I think that there are two. The first, I was doing this show with Oprah. It was called, it was an Oprah conversation on Apple TV. Y'all should watch it if y'all haven't. And I get, it was 10 people on Zooms and they're asking me different questions. Oprah is facilitating the conversation. And one person says, Emmanuel, Jewish people suffered the Holocaust, which was more recent and more lethal than slavery, and they got over it. How come black people can't get over slavery? Mind you, you know the question is uncomfortable, bro, because everybody else was on camera and asked their questions. This person chose to not show her face. Didn't even show her face. When I heard that, I thought to myself, yo, that's wild. But here's why I loved the question. Because the only bad question is a question not asked. She's thinking that whoever this person was, I believe it was a woman, she is thinking that. So I would prefer you ask it so I can answer it and let's have an honest conversation as opposed to you just living your life like, I don't know why these black people can't get over this. You're thinking it, but you're not talking about it.

Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about it. Outside of that, I did an episode on my show Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. I did an episode where I had white parents raising black children. Children. They had a biracial son, they had two black children, and they had a natural born white son.

I think that's- They adopted black kids.

They adopted black kids. And I asked the black daughter, the adopted black daughter, and with her white parents sitting right next to me, her name was Story. I said, Story, do you wish your parents raising you were black?

What did she say?

Regardless of how she answers that, Louis is about to be awkward.

What did she say?

I mean, regardless.

How old is she?

She's 12. So you know what K-Low- oh wow. You know 12 years old? They're great liars. So I'm like, do you wish your parents raising you were black? And she was like, she paused. She's like, no, I just wanted them to love me for me. I said, yes, good answer, girl. Wow. But now I look to my left and now mom's crying. Oh. Mom, Jamie Ivey, her husband Aaron Ivey. One of the most powerful episodes I've done. Again, if y'all haven't seen it, check it out. Not for my sake, for your sake, honestly, 'cause I do a show for the people. That was uncomfortable. because that could have gone south real quick.

Think about this.

I do my show and the book based on questions from emails and whatnot. So, so many parents who have adopted children lay their head at night wondering if they're adequate enough. Wondering if they're loving enough. Wondering like, man, I know I'm white and my child is black. I'm doing all I can, but I can't provide exactly what they need. I don't know what they're going through. My hair ain't like their hair. I don't even know how to do their hair. I'm black, my child is white. I'm doing the best I can, but maybe I'm falling short. Parents sleeping at night, And when Story, the Black daughter, answered that question to her me and her mom, I could just imagine adopted kids answering that question around the world.

Yeah.

Like so many parents getting that answer that they wanted, that they lay sleeplessly at night wondering. So that bro was powerful.

Yeah, I have a good friend of mine who's adopted, I believe, two kids, two Black kids. He's a white guy and he's very white looking. And he's had to deal with a lot of challenges from just like taking his kids to the park pre-pandemic to black women, you know, mothers coming up and being very scared for these younger black kids, thinking that the white parent has kidnapped these kids or something has happened and worried for them. And he has to deal with, I don't know if that's reverse racism or.

If that's, what's funny is, it's not reverse racism, but it's one, I hate the concept of reverse racism. Racism is racism, right? Black people can be racist. Now, a group of black people would struggle to be racist because I say three things are imperative for racism, power, privilege and prejudice. And at large, black people don't have power. But that would just be kind of, it would be stereotyping.

Stereotyping.

You feel me? Like it would be like stereotyping, but bro it's real. We have a human inclination of like, wait a second. If you see like a white person with like two young black kids, like what the heck is going on here? Because the world just told me if I see a black person with two young white kids, you're probably the nanny. or you're probably the hell, like that's what the world is told. It's what movies has told us. Let's go back to slavery. That's what it was. Right. The several of the black women were used to raise the master's kids, if you will. And so the world has told us black, older person, white, younger kids, you're probably like walking, whatever the case may be. When it's reversed, it's like, wires not crossing, firing correctly, what is going on here? So yeah, man, it's real.

Do you think white parents should be focusing more on adopting white looking kids.

Or.

If there's a lot of white kids that still need parents as well, should parents only be focusing on their race so that there's not this cultural question?

That's a really good question.

Or is, you know, is it acceptable to adopt any kids you want?

For me, I would say adopt who you want, bro. What we know is needed in this world is more what? Love, is more what? Peace, unity, harmony. That's what we need. So if someone is willing and has the ability and empathy to look beyond their skin color and love someone who doesn't look like them, I will never, ever, ever, ever try to put a rule, restriction, or boundary on love. I will only adopt someone who looks like you. No, no, because that in and of itself is undermining achievement and improvement in our society. Now, what I will say is, and I've said this on my episode and I'll say this now because it is imperative, do not remove your kid's culture, your child's culture if you adopt them. Don't do them a disservice. Because again, I said it in jest, but don't make them white. Begone.

Now, if they wanna hang out in white culture.

Now, let me say this, let me say this, 'cause let me clarify, let me clarify, 'cause this is an issue we have in our society. You can't make them white. You can make them white cultured. When I was young, Louis, I finally realized when people would say, Emmanuel, you're not even black. What they were saying is, Emmanuel, you're not black culture. And we need to do a better job delineating between the two. A black person is black as black. It don't matter if I'm white cultured or not. If the cops see me, I'm black. So you're black. It doesn't matter whether what your culture is when it comes to oppression. But you can make them, you can not make them white culture. Just remember that they should be black culture as well. I grew up in a Nigerian household. I am now, I understand white culture, I understand black culture, I understand Nigerian culture. My parents would try to speak to me in Igbo or native language to make sure I maintain my Nigerian culture. We would go back to Nigeria to make sure I maintain my Nigerian culture. That's not to say, hey son, Don't go to this white school. Hey son, don't go to this black school. No, do that. But also remember who you are. And so I would say make sure your children remember. Remember, remember. Like also remember who you are bro, like because genuinely speaking and some white people don't know this like, and I've said this in the book, it's funny, black people's hair is different. Like black women can't just get into a pool and get out the pool. Like hair is different. Black people, we using lotion all the time. because our skin is different. Our skin will get dry, we'll get to what's called ashy. Like, there's differences in color and there's differences in culture. I just want everyone to acknowledge that. Yeah.

What's been the biggest challenge for you from putting out one piece of content that you were hoping that would inspire a few people that inspired tens of millions and turned into a really a phenomenon in 2020 to serving and educating people who were very ignorant around this topic. What's your life been like since that one video came out? And now, within six months, a book with Oprah and the New York Times bestseller.

Say that again, bro.

Say that again. New York Times bestseller.

Let's go. Let's go.

You know, we both debuted number three on the New York Times bestseller list.

The hardest part, I will say this, I understand why people are one hit wonders. I understand it because it is hard to follow up.

It's hard.

Dude, my first episode, people don't, y'all don't understand. Go back and watch the very first episode of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. It's me sitting in a burgundy tank top and a burgundy Zara long sleeve in a white room. I say this, welcome to the first of hopefully many episodes of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. The operative word there, Louis's hopeful.

I didn't know. You didn't know. You were like, this might just be one video.

This might just be one video. Gosh. I had no idea. So, okay, we do the first video. I act, I don't, I don't know anything about anything. So I do it, I drop it on a Monday.

On Tuesday's Blackout Tuesday.

For those of y'all that aren't aware. So everyone's posting a video on the next day. And nobody's posting any content. Why? Because Blackout Tuesday. The timing. The timing, incidental. I had no idea Blackout Tuesday was a thing. So the reason it went so viral was so many incidental pieces. Blackout Tuesday occurs, now everybody's posting it. So now I have 25 million views in four days. Six days later, I get a call. Achy. McConaughey speaking. What the hell? How'd you get my numbers? No caller ID call. McConaughey speaking. I want to have a conversation. McConaughey, like, like Matthew McConaughey? Yeah, man, let's have a conversation. I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna record my next episode in four days, man, would love to have you. Hint, haven't told this before. My second episode was gonna be Instagram Live. I didn't know how to follow up. My first episode got 25 million views. You can't beat that. So, my second episode, I was gonna go on Instagram Live, hey, thank you all for watching. Ask me questions, I'll answer them live. That was my idea, McConaughey. I wanna have a conversation. Yeah, McConaughey, let's record it in four days. It's gonna be my next episode. Let's do it tomorrow. McConaughey wants to do it tomorrow. Okay, let's do it tomorrow. So, episode two, McConaughey, episode three, Chip and Joanna reach out. Chip and Joanna Gaines. Episode four, I've now heard from Oprah.

And now I moved to LA. Wow.

So you were still in Austin then? I was still in Austin. I was still in Austin, Texas. I was in the middle of a job transition. So I wasn't even supposed to move to LA. My job was supposed to take me to New York. All of a sudden, job things change, I moved to LA. It was so many God timing things, stars aligning, but I believe in, I'm a man of faith, so there's so many God things. That bro, that was, that's the weirdest part of it all. And I mean, dude, I could tell you stories about rejection and so many obstacles with why this was not supposed to happen. Well, really, I could. I mean, that's a whole nother book. This video is not supposed to happen? No, bro.

The first, it was supposed to be.

Called Questions White People Have. It was never supposed to be called Uncomfortable Conversations. My first thought was, hey, I'm gonna call it Questions White People Have. I called my homegirl Rachel Lindsay, the first black Bachelorette for all Bachelorette fans. It was great. Great. So I called my homegirl, I said, Hey, Rachel, I'm gonna do this thing called Questions White People have. Three white people at a table, three black people at a table, white people reach into a fishbowl, ask a question, black people answer it. I wanted Lewis to see white and black people in dialogue. That was the goal. Man, middle of COVID couldn't make it happen. So now I have my homegirl, she's like, Hey, Acho, I'll drive down, I'll do it with you, this white girl, I'll do it with you myself. She drives down from Dallas to Austin, it was gonna be her and I. We rehearsed for a whole day. All day Saturday we practice. On Sunday, an hour, six minutes before I'm supposed to be in studio, she calls me. Yeah, she called me. She was staying in my house, in my guest room. She called me downstairs like, Hey, I can't do this. It's supposed to be you, not me. They don't want to see me. She has tears in her eyes. I just can't do it. It's not right. I can't do it. It's not right. I'm like, what the hell? It's a white girl, right? White girl. I'm like, what the hell? What the hell? We practice this. We practice this. So now I had to do it myself. Remember, uncomfortable conversations with the black man. Not uncomfortable monologue with a black man. The first episode I was not supposed to be by myself. Now get this. I opened the door to the studio five minutes before I'm supposed to record with my right hand. My left hand vibrates text from my friend. Achó, a different friend, black girl. Achó, I really don't like this idea you're doing. Questions white people have. They didn't educate us as to how to assimilate into their culture. Why do we need to educate them as to how to assimilate in the arts? I said, unless you have a better idea, I'm just gonna go where God leads. I hit my literary agents, like three weeks before the first episode, three days before the first episode. Hey, I have this idea. I think I want to do something. I don't know what it is, but I think I want to do something. Hey, the market space is just incredibly crowded. It's not aggressive, probably not gonna go anywhere, like in this type of space. Yeah, the market, the space is crowded for books like these. Like, racism is hard to cut through.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's hard to cut through. People aren't really buying it. A lot. I said, Hey, I'm gonna do this with or without y'all. True story. I sent them that after we made the New York Times best sellers list, I text my literary agent, Never forget. I said, I'm gonna do this with or without y'all. And the rest is freaking history. So there were obstacles after obstacles after obstacles telling me to stop. And I was just like, God called me to do something. I had to do it. I couldn't say no. and five months later in New York City.

Wow, man, it's crazy. Now, were you talking about this stuff privately or publicly about race and, you know, moving this conversation forward? Or were you just a sports broadcaster?

That's a good question. After George Floyd was murdered, I-- so again, The last one of the last pages of the book, you'll see me with all my friends. You can see the friend group I have. I have a lot of close white friends, a lot of close black friends. It's the very last page before acknowledgments, so the last page of the actual book. Okay, yeah. Check it out. You'll see like it's a picture, bro. And it's 17 people at my going away party. And eight are black, eight are white, one's Hispanic, right? And why do I say this? Because this is my life. Uncomfortable conversations, white and black culture, It is my life. And so my point here is after George Floyd was murdered, I pulled up to my white friend's house. It was four people. And I sat in the car for a second with my black home girl. Her name is Mo. And I said, I really don't want to go off on these white people. True story. I was like, I really don't. Yeah, they're my people.

They're in the book.

They're in the book. They're at my going away party. My closest friends. I was like, I really don't want to go off on these white people because I was so I'm like, yo, I'm tired of seeing black people being oppressed or murdered or enslaved or whatever, or mistreated excessively because they're black. I'm tired of that, especially at the hands of white people. We've seen that for years in this country. We've read about it, we've heard it, we felt it, I'm so tired of it. Ah! Caught my breath. I walked inside the house. I said, I always said, Hey, listen now. Very sober minded, very somber. I said, you've known these white people for how long? 10, 12 years. Like they're my dogs. They're family. And not even friends, they're family. Like at this point, they're family. It's family, bro. Let me put this. The white girl, her name is Brogan. I walked her mom down the aisle at Brogan's wedding. I'll put it like that. Like they're family. This is family. I said, y'all listen down, we gotta talk. I said, what's up man? I was like, what is it about white people that make them view black people and such? So we get to talking, we get to talking. And Louis, after 45 minutes, my white friends were like, how can we help? What can we do? I said, you'll have to expose yourself to black culture, black people. You can't live in this white neighborhood, in this white cul-de-sac, go to your white church, go to your kids, send your kids to a white school, and expect to understand black culture and black things. You can't do that. I said, hey, how many black people were at your wedding? Because I know I was there. I said, how many black people were at your wedding? I said, how many black people were at your wedding? I knew off the top of my head, it was me, my brother. They said, I asked Brogan's husband, she said, there were three, you, your brother, and this other dude. I said, okay, how many knew you? how many came for you and how many knew broken first? And he thought, he was like, dang, you're right. I said, if you don't, if you don't, it's not that you don't like black people, but if you live your life according to the easiest way you'll live your life, not consciously, you'll just live a very white life. He said, okay, well how can I even meet black people? I said, you can go to black church. They said this, four white people sitting there talking to me and my friend. They said, we thought black church was your thing. I get it now. These incredible white people who love me dearly don't understand jurisdiction or lack thereof of cultural boundaries. Where they can go. We gotta have conversations. And that's why the book started, that's why the show started which led to the book. I was sitting at this table with my dearest white friends and as soon as I'm talking to them, I'm like, they don't even understand. So the only way you can understand is by talking. Somebody's gotta talk. Somebody's gotta do this. Because if these people who I love, One woman who my mother, I walked down the aisle at her wedding. If they don't understand, then how can I expect random person to understand?

Who aren't hanging out with black people.

So I said, We gotta have conversations. And that's how everything-- and when was that? That was on Friday. That was on-- what month was that? That was in May. 'Cause remember, George Floyd murdered May 25th or 26th, something along then. That would've maybe been May 29th or 30th. It was a few days after George Floyd.

You were moving to LA.

Moving to LA. June 15th. Didn't know I was moving to LA.

At the time though.

Remember that?

You were going to New York? New York, exactly.

So you thought you were going to.

New York and within two weeks you moved to LA. Correct. What?

Correct.

That's for the job.

That was for the job.

That was for five. None of that was based on the video. No.

That was just happened. No. Happened to be coming to LA. That's crazy. Crazy. 'Cause if I don't go to LA now, I'm more distant from Oprah and her team and everything is different. And mind you, New York was way more shut down at the time. So I don't even know what uncomfortable conversations become.

So anyway, that was how it all started.

And that's how I realized uncomfortable conversations need to be had.

This is what I love. Whenever I see someone who does something based on their calling or their mission, even if it's not their career, but they feel like it's a duty, it's a responsibility to put something out there, whether it's gonna ruin your career, whether it's gonna go nowhere, it doesn't matter. I put out a book a few years ago called the Mask of Masculinity, which is about how men can be more vulnerable and open up. how we can tear down our masks. As an athlete, I wore a lot of masks. Of course. And it helped me in a lot of ways, but then it also hurt me to being less vulnerable, putting out my ego, all these different things. And I realized that men were doing a lot of the harm in the world because we were wearing masks and we weren't willing to open up and have these loving conversations. Absolutely. We weren't willing to share. We weren't willing to heal. We weren't willing to let go of our shame, all these things. and I remember my team at the time, they were like, my agent was like, why are we putting out a book about masculine vulnerability? And I was just like, I feel.

Like I have to.

It wasn't a smart business move. It wasn't helping my business or my career. It could have hurt me in a lot of ways, but I was just like, I don't care if one person reads this. If it helps one person, we gotta do it. Dude, let me speak on this.

I said, there's a difference between your career and your calling. And I've heard, I think Steve Harvey say this, your career is what you're paid for, your calling is what you're made for. That's deep.

It's a bar.

It's a bar. I'll put it like this. I'll put it like this. People say, Emmanuel, how do you know you're calling? Remember I told you, I got called from a no caller ID number. First one, it was Matthew McConaughey. I got called from a no caller ID number. The second one, it was Oprah Winfrey. I got called from a no caller ID number. The third one, it was Commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell.

Your calling will call you.

Pick up. Your calling will call you. Pick up. Wow. See, so many times we see no caller ID numbers. I don't want to take that one. Right, yeah. I don't know that one. Your calling will call you. People pick up. I was called to this moment. I did not want to do this. I'll be honest with y'all. I'm telling the world. Emmanuel Acho wasn't like, Hey, let's have conversations about race and racial reconciliation. That'll be extremely fun. No, it's not what I wanted to do. It's what I had to do.

Yeah, you were.

I had to do it.

Because you were doing sports broadcasting on the weekends, right?

Yes. I was doing college football at the time for another network, doing all these different shows. I was a sports guy trying to create content about love too. That was gonna be what I wanted to do for fun. But I was called to do this. And then when your calling does call you, don't get distracted. What do I mean? After the first video, I get 25 million views. It since has 30 plus million views. Now I'm like, oh, I gotta get views. I gotta get views. I gotta do it to get views. I did it to change Hearts. So now, Acho, don't worry about the views. Just change. Like you said, just change one. What if we. What if just one person is touched by this? Now, by the grace of God, we're still getting millions of views, which is cool, because then you just got to see the fruits of your labor. But I don't care about it. It's like, just change.

Just move one.

Just cause one to emote. So I had to speak on that, 'cause people wonder about the calling. I'm like, you,'re calling it, we'll call you, I promise. You just gotta pick up.

What are three questions every white person should be asking themselves and their black friends or black members of the community?

Good one. One, that's a good one. My guy, I like this conversation. Yes. I would say that those are separate questions. I'm just gonna start spitballing. I never really prep for conversations, so I like speaking from the heart.

The first one, which we're asking ourselves white people.

The first thing is the gateway to these conversations. Do you understand white privilege? Does white privilege make me feel uncomfortable? What is white privilege? I'm gonna go there. Do I understand that I have white privilege? I would, if I'm white, ask myself all of these questions. All of them. Do I understand white privilege? Does the concept of me being white privilege make me feel uncomfortable? Do I have white privilege? Now let me define it. Three weeks ago, Louis, I'm walking down the streets of Beverly Hills. I walk into a restaurant. Hey, let me get this, let me get that, let me get. Oh my God, Emmanuel Achuo, I love your show, you, Meals on Me. Oh, thank you. See, my meal was free not because I'm black. My meal was free not because I'm 6'2. My meal was free because I was famous. So I had famous person privilege. All privilege is immunity from certain punishment or access to certain things based upon some thing. Immunity from punishment or access to things based upon something. So what is the adjective or word that precedes privilege? I had famous person privilege. Okay, let's talk white privilege. White privilege is not saying your life hasn't been hard. It's saying your skin color hasn't contributed to the difficulty of your life. It's not saying your life hasn't been hard. Saying your skin color hasn't contributed to that. As a white person, your life has probably been hard because for the most part, all of our lives have been hard. But let me tell you what has contributed to your life's difficulty is your whiteness. You can be white and not be privileged because just the word privilege is just access and immunity. Typically, just saying privilege means money, but you can't be white and not be white privileged. Every white person has white privilege. Every white person doesn't necessarily have privilege, but every white person has white privilege. That's why when people talk about oh, well, you have black privilege. I quickly dismantle that idea. There was a sports reporter that said these two black players, Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, the black superstars, they had recruited a white head coach to coach them. Right. Two black players recruited a white head coach to coach them. The sports reporter said, well, that was black privilege. I said, absolutely not. That was Superstar privilege. Because them being able to dictate who coaches them is not dependent upon their skin color. It was dependent upon their Superstardom. That's ours. Exactly. Let's not make that mistake. It is a very, very, very, very nearly impossible to have black privilege in America. You can have black privilege in black dominated spaces, Nigeria, but it's very, very, very hard nearly impossible to have that. So we can't throw Louis words around so quickly like privilege without explaining them.

Because they're visceral reactions. Great. Before you go on to the next.

Thing, is there a way in America that you can have black that you can?

Is there black privilege?

I think it would be very hard to create a scenario. If you are in a inner city and you're going to a school in the inner city that's 90% black and you're one of the 5% white and 5% will be other, then all of a sudden the people at that school and the school teachers are black and they're showing favoritism within themselves, then there could be black privilege. But remember, for there to be privilege, there probably has to be an environment in which privilege can be cultivated. And in America, black people typically, generally speaking, don't have environments that are like incubated for black people. So it's just very, very hard to have black pro, like in what space does being black grant you a benefit? Now some people will say the lazy out of, oh well black people are athletic. It's not a black thing. Read this book called Sports Gene. That's a genetic anatomical thing. So in what spaces does just your skin color being black grant you an advantage or immunity? That's what then I would challenge all white people. If you're like, wait, black privilege doesn't exist. Just think about, in what space or situation is being black a benefit? When you find that answer, there's the answer. The other questions white people should be asking themselves is, When's the last time you had a conversation with a black person or a group of black people? That I think is imperative. Louis, I'm gonna go here, and I'm just gonna give you two answers 'cause I'm going loud. I'm gonna go here. It wasn't enough for us to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration. That's a whole conversation that I might make a TED Talk or a book or whatever the heck. I don't know, it might be an episode, but I'm gonna say this again so people can let this sink in. It wasn't enough to outlaw segregation. We should have mandated integration. If we really wanted to change our world. 2013, I'm in the Philadelphia Eagles locker room. Philadelphia Eagles NFL organization. I'm playing for the Eagles at the time. I walk into the cafeteria at One NovaCare Way. That's where the Eagles practice is. And in the cafeteria, there are 53 people that are players, 53 people on the NFL roster. I look up. All the white people, true story, are sitting at a table and all the black people are sitting at a table. Really? True story. minus two people. There's one mixed black offensive lineman sitting with the white people, and there is one white defensive back sitting with the black people. True story. I said, dang, we outlawed segregation years ago, but I sit here and we unintentionally or incidentally still segregate. Think about because we gravitate towards things we are familiar with. My coach would always tell me, AchO, don't be like water. Water takes the easiest route. If I were to pour water on the ground, Lucy would just navigate the path of least resistance, and that is what we do. White, I'm in this white neighborhood. Yeah, let me go here. Oh, yeah, this church, I like that. I'll just go here. Oh, only white people? Yeah, that's fine. Oh, this small group, I'll go here.

It's only white people, but I mean, it's not my fault, I don't see any black people around, so it's fine. We just take the path of least resistance. Let me ask you a question on this. Talk to me. This just came to me. This might be very ignorant. but I've heard the term birds of a feather flock together. What if you had a duck and a pigeon trying to integrate? Would they be able to fly to their destination?

Great question.

As seamlessly... That's a great question. You know, Mighty Ducks, the Mighty V, if you got a parakeet and a...

That's a good question.

Blue Jay and a Robin and a, you know, all flying together, would you be able to achieve the whatever desired.

Route as soon as you Found your common humanity. If you have these two animals, if they never, or these two objects, whatever the case may be, if they never try to integrate, they won't figure out what they have in common. I say in the book, there's my home girl, Brittany Wheeler, she's a white girl. And if ever I say something to her, and she lives in Austin, Texas, that's my homie. She would be like, oh, bless, right? I would say you trippin', but she says, oh, bless. See, she's a white woman, grew up in Austin, Texas. I'm a black dude playing in the NFL. But we figured out our common humanity so we still rock together. Totally different. She speaks different, talks different, walks different, style different. But at the heart, we're very similar. But until you have these conversations, until you get out your box you don't realize wait a second, we actually are more alike than we are different. Not to say we don't have differences, but we actually have a lot in common. So while the birds of a feather may flock together, imagine what they could do if they really started to speak and talk and understand other people. My life is a beautiful multitude of colors, cultures, etc. So that's what I would submit to that.

And what about white people that are just like, well, I like just hanging out with white people. And I want to live in a neighborhood where I'm not forced to hang out with black people or Asian people or Hispanic people. I just want to hang out with my family and friends that are white.

I would say this, that if you were to do that and not expose yourself to other cultures, then you would end up more than likely committing involuntary racism. What do I mean? Let's talk, people. In our judicial system, Louis, we have degrees of murder. First degree murder, what is that? That is premeditated. I thought about it beforehand. Second degree murder, that's a crime of passion. But then you move down the rungs and you get to involuntary manslaughter. While it wasn't intentional, it still led to death. While it wasn't premeditated or a crime of passion, it still led to death. See, if you're only hanging out with your white brothers and sisters and your white or your black brothers and sisters and your black, then you will be unintentionally emotionally killing people when you are in their presence.

Emotionally killing them?

Correct.

What do you mean by that?

You don't even talk like you're black,acho. You're so educated for a black man. Oh my gosh, you dress so well for a black guy. You think you're paying me a compliment, but you're really emotionally killing me, because now I'm questioning my black I'm questioning who I am. So I would submit to those people who are like, well, I just don't want to. For the betterment of our society, for the betterment of your household, for the betterment of your family, for the betterment of your neighborhood, for the betterment of communities at large, push against that. Push, push, push, push, push against that. I want to eat dessert every day. I don't. For the betterment of my health. Yeah. Right? Like some days after a hard workout, maybe you don't feel like showering. But you do for the betterment of those around you so you don't freaking smell. We always do things for the betterment of others. So even if in some weird, naive, lazy way, we don't want to, you still do it.

Yeah. Okay, what's another question we should ask ourselves as white people?

I would probably say, and this, I would probably say, How are you using your privilege to benefit those around you? Okay, people say, okay, Achu, I get it. I'm privileged. Now what? Well, as this company sponsors me, this restaurant sponsors me, they give me a celebrity card. You may have heard of the company, I've said this before. But for those who haven't, they give me a celebrity card. And with the celebrity card, I'm allowed to eat for free whenever I want. I go to the restaurant, I place my order, swipe the card, it's free. That's amazing. Swipe the card. I need to get one of these sponsorships. It's amazing. It's amazing. But also in the back of the card, if you read the fine print, Emmanuel, you are allowed to throw a party for a hundred people every year. at this restaurant or have this restaurant cater it. What do I do? I throw it for the homeless. This is not to toot my own horn. This is to say, I have been given privilege because I am famous to eat at this restaurant for free. I'm not only going to use this privilege for myself. I'm going to use this privilege for those who are not privileged in this means. I say that to say, my white brothers and sisters, you have this white privilege. Don't just use it for your use it for the betterment of other people. America is not a meritocracy. America is based upon nepotism and cronyism. For those of y'all that don't read books. America meritocracy is not based on how hard you work, you'll achieve your success. It's based on nepotism. People hire their family cronyism. People hire their friends. If America was founded by white men and is based upon hiring your family white men, white women hiring your friends white men white women, then if that privilege being white, because that was the word that is that's a fixed variable, that's a fixed outcome rather than the variable outcome. If it's based upon being white, then how are you using that privilege to change the matrix? How are you using that privilege to benefit somebody else who may not have that same privilege? So that would be the third question. Now that you've understood that you have privilege, how are you using your privilege for the betterment of those around you.

And what would you say are some questions we should ask black people when we're around them without? Because a lot, because I've seen this in the online space, it's not black people's responsibility to educate white people. It's white people's responsibility to become educated. I've seen that and that's so tough for me. So again, how are we supposed to have a conversation?

That's so tough. I'm a team sport guy, so I don't I don't adhere to that ideology. In team sports, you know this, in football, you might have to pick up the slack of the man to your left or to your right. Not because you want to.

You don't want to.

But the team needs you to.

You're supposed to just do your job.

Do your job, everybody do your job.

Do your job.

But sometimes somebody falls off.

It falls down.

And you have to pick them up. I'm a team sports guy. So what does that mean? If a white person is now ready to listen, It will not be because Emmanuel Achuo didn't speak that they did not hear. If a white person is ready to listen, it's not going to be for a lack of Emmanuel Achuo's speech that they did not hear. That's my thing. If somebody's ready to listen, I'm now gonna say something. I've been saying something. Now, I'm not gonna tell my black brothers and sisters, find the strength. I'm not gonna do that. Because people are tired, boss. They're sick and tired of being sick and tired. We say that in the church. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. If people are, I'm not gonna, I know what I'm gonna do. Right. I know what I think will behoove those around me, but I'm not gonna project that onto other people. So this is tough. What should their white friends be asking black friends, black people? Probably number one, how are you? Don't ask them for any, nobody cares what you know until they know that you care.

Absolutely.

Nobody cares what you know until there's a reason. I choose every word, I choose every syllable. I think about everything I say. My very first episode, Dear white brothers and sisters, this is for you. Consider this a safe space. I say that intentionally. White people, I want y'all to know I care. I made this for you. I could have said, Hey white people, let's talk.

Listen up.

Totally different. But I use words like brothers and sisters because that implies endearment. Nobody cares what you know until they know what you care. First things just hey, how are you? Okay, how are you?

That's the first thing. First thing, second thing.

How can I help? Mm-.

What can I do?

Yeah. Don't need it. Not complicated. After George Ford was murdered, three people called me: dude named Trent, dude named Russell, dude named Brandon. Russell and Brandon, same two people that I went to their house. Remember, I told you that story minutes ago? Bro. They called me, Hey, AchO, I just want to listen. If you need somebody to cry to, cry, yell at, yell, vent to vent, I just, how are you, man? That was it. That was it. They opened the door for communication. That was it. And then from there, from there we had real conversations. Correct. But don't, don't, don't, I'm not gonna sit here and encourage white people. We'll start at, no, man, 'cause some black people tired. I can't even lie, they tired. And I get it, I get it, I get it, bro. When you sit there and watch, people being murdered and lied on and executed. And it's so much of it is racially motivated. I'm not going to say it's all. I've said this before. I don't think George Floyd's murder was exclusively racial. I do not think it was exclusively racial. I do not. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think so. I don't think it was exclusively racial.

No, I think that it was power related.

Power related and race related. You think if it was a A white person. I do not think George Floyd would have been murdered if it was a white person.

If George Floyd was white, he would not have been murdered. Do you think he would have put.

His knee on his neck and maybe asserted power and then taken it off at some point? I don't even think it would have got there. This is a long conversation. I'll do it in 42 seconds. Here's why. Communication barrier. Because white people and black people don't really know how to communicate, then white people don't know how to as efficiently diffuse use a situation with black people. Communication barrier, communication is everything. If we did a better job of disarming vocally, we wouldn't have to discharge with our weapons. Communication barrier. After communication barrier, there is a subconscious thinking of black people are lesser than white people. Generally speaking, there's a subconscious thinking, why is that? That's been for everyone or for society. Okay, y'all pick and choose where you want to fall in society. But in society, that's where society has told us to fall. From slavery to Jim Crow, to television, to segregation, to everything. There is a concept of, wait, this black person is beneath me. That's just what society has told us. Just think about it. Think about anything in life. Think about whatever movie you watch. Who's the villain? Who's the victim? Who's being victimized? Think about the subliminal cues of that. And then lastly, in my opinion, and I got my master's degree in psychology, so little this is psychological based, When the cop is kneeing on George Floyd's neck and you have people telling him to stop, he's looking up like, y'all, I'm not gonna listen to you, black people.

If you think of those white people.

Telling him to stop, everything's different. I think there's a different respect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I see a bunch of white.

People telling me to stop. Oh, these are my people telling me to stop. Oh, I respect these people. Interesting. Oh, these are my, oh, I respect y'all. Okay, you're right. But he's looking at these black people like, y'all hoodlums, y'all thugs, y'all gangsters. You're only uneducated. I'm not gonna listen to y'all sitting here in your street clothes telling me I'm the cop. So I think there are a lot of factors at play, power being one of them, race being one of them.

I feel like we've only gotten started, but we've only got a few minutes left of your time. I want to go for three more hours, but I want to ask you a couple final questions before I ask them. Make sure you guys get this book, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, Emmanuel Acho. Good looking black man, brother. My guy. Get a few copies for your friends. This is a perfect gift for the holidays as well so your family members can start being educated and having uncomfortable conversations together. What's a conversation a white person can have with a white person who might.

Be.

Unconsciously racist, consciously racist, you know, what is that starter? Besides just saying, Hey, read this, you need this book. But what's a conversation to open it for someone who might be unconscious or consciously racist? I would say two things.

More than I want or would encourage people to necessarily have the conversation, you need to be anti-racist, not just non-racist. That's where I would really say.

What's the difference between non-racist and anti-racist?

Non-racist is I am not a participant in racism, but I still tolerate racism around me. Anti-racist, I am not only not a participant in racism, But when I hear it, I call it out. I'm at Thanksgiving with my family. I'm white. And my dad says, Man, can you believe all those black people that are in the neighborhood now? Like, what is going on here? Call that out.

Wow.

Don't let that slide. Don't let that slide. Yeah, I saw this black guy out the street, walking around in a tank top. Let me look, we should go check that one. Call that out. It's not enough to be non-racist, we must also be anti-racist. Then I think the biggest gateway is, like I said, which is the most common one, privilege. White privilege. Like that's the biggest gateway if you're white to starting a conversation with other white people.

How can we have a conversation as white people without feeling guilty about white privilege? When a lot of people I talk to are saying, well, I'm not trying to do something wrong.

Yeah. So I've said this, guilt doesn't cause someone to change. Love does. Guilt doesn't cause someone to change. Don't feel guilty. Like, I don't feel guilty that I'm now a little bit famous. I don't feel guilty. That'd be so dumb. I can't believe people recognize me now.

I get free stuff every now and then.

It's terrible. Oh my gosh. What have I done? I don't feel guilty. It's not necessarily your fault. Don't feel guilty. That won't cause anybody to change. Love causes people to change. Now, don't feel guilty, but I need you to acknowledge it. I need you to acknowledge it and act accordingly.

How does someone acknowledge it? Who's white?

Is that saying every day, I have white privilege? To everyone they see who's black? I think it's subconscious. I think it's walking up to the restaurant with the black person and the white hostess is there, and you know the black person got there first. But the white hostess looks at you and says, yes, how many people at your party? No, you didn't get there first. Saying, oh, they were before me. Little things. I'm not asking you to save the world, but no, no, they got there first. They got there first. Those are the subtle things, and those are the ones that everybody will probably see in the next week or two. Because that's the stuff I see all the time. I'm walking to a restaurant, somebody else is like, and they don't just act.

Like I wasn't there. Like, I get treated second class. What do, I don't wanna say what do black people feel in general because you're one human being. But what do your friends or people you know in general who are Black who deal with this on a daily basis? What are those conversations like behind the scenes when it's like, man, you know, today this happened again. Well, this happened again to me.

Man, I would say, I would probably say that several, a lot of Black people probably become numb to it. Now, Black people aren't one monolithic group. So it's hard to speak on behalf, but let me speak, your experience is your expertise, so let me speak from my experience and my friend's experience. You get numb to it. There are degrees, like I said, of racism, right? You have first degree slavery, you have like second degree, I'm like the George Floyd and Christian Amy Cooper in New York Central Park, the dogs, y'all Google the story if you don't know it. But the bottom degrees of just kind of being followed in a store or not being acknowledged in a store, If I go to the Rolex store, I went to the Rolex store in Santa Monica, I put on my Rolex. I have several watches, but if I'm going to the Rolex store, I'm gonna wear my Rolex, because I'm a black man. And more than likely, black man, can you really afford a Rolex based on what society has told me? I'm conscious of that. Before I hop on Zoom calls, if I'm wearing my chain, I'll put my chain inside my shirt. Because I'm a black man, and the world has told me, oh, black man with chain, you should be a rapper. You should be a gangster. You should be a thug. So black people, I think, at least me, I'm just very, oh, it's my life I now have to live. Yeah.

I think you told a story one of your episodes that even when you're in a car getting your mail, you saw a white woman come out and you waited in your car just so you weren't getting them at the same time to not potentially make her feel uncomfortable.

Yeah, because man, I mean think about this bro.

When you go in an elevator, you push the elevator button first.

I get off the elevator first. Think about what history has told me. Like, -oh, man, if I go to this mailbox and freaky and I trip and I use a white woman to catch myself, that started the Tulsa race riots back in 1927, Tulsa, Oklahoma, maybe 1921. That started the Tulsa massacre. Black man, elevator trips, uses white woman to catch himself. She screams, he runs off the elevator. Next thing you know, 300 homes are eviscerated. like 1200 businesses. Wait a minute, that was in the 1920s, bro. That wouldn't happen now. Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper, black man tells white woman, lease your dog. White woman calls the cops, this black man is threatening my life. Please help, come quickly. If not for video cameras, who knows how that situation unfolds. So because of that, I as a black man, especially a 620-240 pound black man, I'm just very cognizant of like, man, look, y'all not about to get me. Y'all not about to get me. I hit me.

On something stupid that didn't happen just because.

Just because you're white. And if you call the cops, they will believe you before they believe me.

What is it like with black cops? Are they more believing of a white story versus a black story? Or how does that scenario play out?

It's interesting, man. Again, again, my experience is my expertise. So I will say that, and I said this in my episode with my officers, I didn't say that like this, but I see a black cop as black before I see he is a cop. I see a white cop as a cop first. But I think when black people go to a restaurant, at least the black people I know, you go to a restaurant, you look for like the other black person and you make eye contact. 'Cause like just in case something pops off. Really?

Yes, bro.

Because think about this. Black people, we navigate white spaces differently.

Make sure you see each other like, Hey, I'm gonna be a witness if something happens.

There's a case. There's an unspoken rule of like, Hey, shut up. There's an unspoken rule. I'm like, hey, I got your back. Shut up. True stories. Bro, I went to a church in Austin, Texas predominantly white. So, when I'm walking in there, I'm looking for other black people. It's like, I wonder what you're doing here.

Even now in Beverly Hills, when I.

Go to a restaurant, I'm like, oh, good. It's good to see you made it too. Oh, my God. I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm glad you're here. Because it's me and you and about.

100 other white people at this fancy steakhouse. So, I don't know what you do.

But I'm proud, like I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. Because I know it was harder for you than it was for everybody else.

Do you do other black people think the same thing when you're, is that just you? No, no, this is a, this is.

A, bro, ask the black people that you know, ask them. Bro, I'm telling you, like when you log into a restaurant, but it's not that foreign. Let me flip the roles for you now. I go to Nigeria on mission trips every summer, and we go with white people. White doctors, nurses, we do medical mission work. And think about if you were to go into a foreign country, and you're the only white person there. When you see another white person, you're gonna spark up a conversation.

Or someone of a language. If you're in Mexico, you speak English.

Let me put it in terms for everybody listening, watching, whatever the case may be. You travel to Mexico, you travel to Italy, and you're standing in the customs line. We've all been there. I know you've been there. And you're standing in the customs line, and you don't see nobody really recognize. But then you see somebody else who looks fair-skinned, or say you're from, say you're from Texas. Texas and you see somebody in their backpack has a Texas flag, what are you gonna do?

You're gonna connect. You're gonna connect.

It's like Jeep owners, motorcyclists, they're like waving at each other when you drive by. Like what I'm saying really isn't that foreign. Whenever you are the minority and you see someone else who has something shared with you, you connect over that. White people do it too. White people just don't do it over their whiteness because in America it's white so you're always connected. But in America if you're black, you're rarely connected. Especially if you're black and white spaces. Man, that's why you write the book.

'Cause these things people don't know. This is crazy, man. I wish we could go another few hours, but you've got many episodes on this on YouTube, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. The book is very powerful. I was going through it all week, and there's a lot of great resources at the end as well, what you can do, other movies you can watch, questions you can ask, things like that. A lot of great stuff. So make sure you, again, get three copies of this book, give it to your white friends. I think it'll be very powerful. Subscribe on YouTube. I watched most of them. I haven't watched all of them yet, but they're really powerful episodes. And they're short. They're only like 12-15 minutes. I wish they were hour long. And all your comments on YouTube are like, oh, where's the unedited stuff? -Make them longer. -That's why we usually do two hours on our show here because it's not even been an hour. It's almost been an hour and I felt like 10 minutes. -Yeah. -You know what I mean? I feel like I could ask you questions forever. so make sure you guys get the book. If you enjoyed this and you want me to have Emmanuel back on in the future, let me know in the comments below on social media. Follow him. Emmanuelacho, A-C-H-O, on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and UncomfortableConvos.com is the website where you can learn more about this. It's been amazing to watch the journey, man. I've got two final questions. This is called the Three Truths. I asked everyone at the end. So I'd like you to imagine for a moment a hypothetical situation that it's your last day on earth many, many years from now. You can be as old as you want to be, but you got to eventually turn off the lights. And you've accomplished every goal you set out. Every dream has come true. You've written many books. You've done thousands of episodes of your conversations. Whatever it is we're going to do, you've had the family, everything. But for whatever reason, everything you've created like this book has to go with you to the next place, wherever that is. All your videos have to go with you. This conversation goes. Anything that you said goes with you. But you get to leave that behind three things you know to be true. Three lessons you learn in your life. And this is all people would have to remember you by. These three truths. What would you say are yours?

Ah, oh, that's a good question. I would say this.

Mm-.

Like I told you, I'm a man of faith. So I would say, number one, trust God he's faithful. Trusting God he's faithful. You just want truth or you want truth and story as to why I'm saying the truth?

Either one. You said a story.

Yeah. Are they trusting God he's faithful? 2015, I was 25 years old. I had already been cut by the Philadelphia Eagles five times prior to being 25. Five times. They cut me. They signed me. They cut me. They signed me. I would, I went to work out in Philly by the Rocky Steps. After you get cut, you're by yourself. You can't go work out at the team gym anymore. So I'm working out in this open field by the Rocky Steps and I go there one day and on this open field is like 400 pigeons. And they're just littered all over the field and I don't have any bags to work out with so I steal street cones. And I'm now working out with construction street cones on a field filled with pigeons as I'm unemployed. And I was like, God, in the world. And now look up five years later and we got a New York Times bestseller.

Love that.

So I say the first one, I'll say trust God, man. He's faithful. He's faithful.

Isn't it interesting that sometimes our dreams that we really wanted, when they don't work out, something greater. But even 10 times.

10 times greater. 10 times greater.

Similar to me, I got injured playing arena football and I remember this was my life. I had no backup plan. I was a sports management degree like, yeah, I have no backup plan. It's like, what are we gonna do?

Okay.

And I remember just being like so depressed for about a year and a half thinking like, this is all I know. But then I had to grow and it became something much greater than just, you know, playing arena football.

Yep.

So anyways, okay, it's number one. Trust God, he's faithful.

My second one, and I don't know why this is, but I really like this. My brother, Sam Macho, he just wrote a book. and it's called Let the World See youe. It's kind of about being real in a world full of fakes. And he says something that stuck with me. He says something that stuck with me. He says, you,'re worth getting to know. He says, you,'re worth getting to know. He was talking to his mentor and his mentor was on his deathbed and his mentor said, so my brother played nine years in the NFL, four years for the Cardinals. And his mentor called Sam and said, Sam, remember this. You were worth worth getting to know.

Wow.

I said, that's so powerful. Because so many of us live our lives like, are we enough? Are we adequate enough? I'm not that special. I'm not that important. But think like, like Louis, you're worth getting to know. Like Emmanuel, you are worth getting to know. Whoever's listening, like, you are worth getting to know. I would say that. And number three, in my last truth, I'm just trying to figure out how to word it, because I know it. I would probably say, You can do the impossible. Don't let anyone tell you you can't. I would say you can do the impossible. Man, to think, Louis, that I could sit in a room by myself for nine minutes and 27 seconds in one take. One take.

Was that scripted?

No scripted.

No teleprompter.

No nothing.

Shut up.

I put my head down. I said, three, two. Welcome to the first episode. To think that in one take my life would change, that Oprah would call me, that I'd write a best-selling book, like that's impossible. Like you can do the impossible, don't let anybody tell you you can't. So yeah, I would say trust God. I would say you're worth getting to know, and I would say and I would believe you can do the impossible.

I've got one final question before I ask it Emmanuel, I want to acknowledge you for a moment for doing the impossible. possible for knowing your worth and for trusting in God, because you've changed millions of lives. You've opened up conversations for a lot of white people that probably wouldn't have had the conversation. Probably a lot of them that would have stayed ignorant. Probably a lot of them that would have stayed angry, entitled, privileged without being able to be educated on their role in the world, whether they were responsible for bad things happening in the past. or not, you opened the channel of conversation. I'm really proud of you and I acknowledge you for stepping out and stepping into this platform when you weren't supposed to. Being a sports analyst, broadcaster, do your job type of mentality, you stepped out of that and followed your calling. And I think if more people followed their calling and did what you did in a similar way, look what we could create in the world. Really acknowledging my man for stepping up, for stepping out and for serving people with your gift, your message because we really need it right now in this time. Final question, what is your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness, my definition of greatness would be How great can you get those around you to become? How great can you get those around you to become? When you think about the great Michael Jordan, those around him too became great. Tom Brady, football player, those around him too became great. Uncomfortable conversations with a black man. I'm hoping that those around me too become great in the sense of humanity. greatness. How great can you get those around you to become? That to me is greatness. It's not just about you, but it's about those around you. I said one day I was laying. My thoughts come to me when I'm in bed, and I was laying in bed one day years ago, and this random, like, poem line came to me. So I put it in my phone. It's my desire is to inspire those to go higher. past the required. So those that admire can also admire whom they've inspired before they expire. So like my desire is to inspire those to go higher past the required. So those they admire, so those that people that admire me, I can also admire before I die. Wow.

'Cause you've let them know you've inspired them to be great. And now you're admiring them.

Like that's my desire. I want to make people go beyond the required. So those that admired me, I can admire before I leave. And so what is greatness to me? It's how great can you get those around you to become.

Manual Attraction.

Thanks, bro.

I'm Matt. Appreciate it, man. If you want to learn more about how to master your mind, check out this next video right here. We're all faced with great opportunities brilliantly.

Disguised as a challenge.

Possible situations. And we are at that point, that nexus point in our evolution as a species. So then you don't try to fix that. That's never going to work. What you do is.