Codie Sanchez: “Just F***ing Start!” Why You Don’t Need to Be SMART to Be RICH!

I am not smarter than anybody else or richer than anybody else. I just move faster than anybody else. And by the time they've even pondered an idea, I've made a move, made three mistakes, and found a better way. Just f***ing start. This is the stuff that I learned on Wall Street that I didn't realize is like, why the people on Wall Street are so much richer than us. It's because they understand how money actually works.

And we were never taught this stuff. She's become a partner at a private equity firm, and she's the founder of.

Contrarian Thinking and Unconventional Acquisitions. Ladies and gentlemen, Cody Sanchez.

Guys, give it up one more time for Cody Sanchez.

There is nothing wrong with being an employee. Being an employee is amazing. It means that you do not carry all the risk.

So if you're a personality type that doesn't like risk, you shouldn't be a business owner.

I don't think you're gonna want the call on a Friday night when you're gonna run out of cash. If you don't have enough money right now, that's actually not your problem. You don't have enough knowledge about money. and how to get it. And as soon as you fix that issue, then this whole new world opens up to you.

Of all the millionaires you know, how many of them do you think are actually happy and fulfilled human beings?

I think that.

Hey, guys, Lewis here, and I'm so excited for what you're about to experience with Cody Sanchez. She talks about the three biggest skills to earn more money in this episode. I took all these different notes. She also says that your reputation is your biggest blocker to money. And she talks about how to increase the value of your reputation. I thought that was very interesting. She also talks about how money is everywhere. And most people don't believe money is everywhere. They feel like it's limited. So I'm excited for you to dive into this interview. Make sure to comment, like and subscribe on this channel. And also get ready for an amazing interview with Cody Sanchez. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring Cody Sanchez back in the house. Excited you're here. And here's the thing that I think a lot of people wanna hear from you today. We are about to start a brand new year. 2025 is coming. And most people said 2024 is my year to make money. And yet most people weren't able to do that. They are confused around, you know, their losses from the crypto market. Some maybe made a lot, but a lot lost a lot. Others tried Airbnb businesses and then started selling those off 'cause they realized it's a lot of work. Some people tried the stock market and maybe they made money, maybe they lost money. Some people thought about buying a small business. They realized it takes 100 hours a week of all their time and they don't actually care about that business. It's not their passion. So what do we do in 2025 moving forward around money? What are the things that you've seen over the last year? and where people can start to really build wealth 2025 and beyond.

Yeah. Well, first of all, my richest mentor once told me a line that I go back to again and again, which is that your bank account is a direct reflection of how fast you move. And that was kind of painful for me to hear that first go round. The faster you move, the more money you make. Because that meant that my bank account was in my control. At that time, when I heard that, I didn't like that very much. You know, it felt like, you know, I hadn't been given opportunities and all all these different reasons. And so if you're going to move on anything, what I would say is move as fast as possible. And it's fascinating because you've met with many billionaires now doing this podcast. I've met with many of them in buying businesses, building businesses, Etc. And if there's one thing they all have in common, it's the same idea of speed. So, you know, when I was talking to Bill Perkins the other day, who him and I have done a bunch of deals together, he said the same thing. He's like, I am not smarter than anybody else or richer than anybody else. I just move faster than anybody else. And by the time they've even pondered an idea, I've made a move, made three mistakes, and found a better way. And so if I could give anybody broad money advice, it would be, you,'re waiting too long. And maybe be a little honest with yourself about, are you thinking a lot? Is there a lot of mental masturbation going on on money? Or are you actually taking action? and then doing the scientific process, trial, error, trial, error, trial, error, as quickly as possible with as little cash as possible so you can figure out what works for you. And then the only other thing I would add is, you know, coming into this next year, you have what, I don't know, 40 days left in the year, something like that. So January 1 can start on January 1 for you, or it can start today. You know, it can start 30, 40 days earlier than everybody else. And because of that, you've already got a head run. I can't tell you how many people, in fact, I was just talking to another person this morning and they were saying, well, should I wait until 2025? Because business financials at the end of the year, they're wrapping up their financials. It's actually a really reasonable question, but the answer to waiting is almost always no. And so if you see people who are really successful, they just move faster than you could ever imagine. And I remind myself that a lot. And so I would start there, whether you're going to start learning, whether you're going to start doing, whether you're going to start allocating, start because you'll make some mistakes, but you'll learn a lot from it.

If someone is just doesn't have that much money to invest, though, and they're thinking, I've already got college debt that I'm still trying to pay down. My expenses are already a lot. I don't really have that much to risk to try either investing in something or buying a small business. Like, what if I lose it all in the next six months? And then that trial and error turns out into a big error.

Yeah.

And I can't come back from that. Is owning a business for everyone?

Yeah. Well, two things. One, you never lack money, which is a weird thing to think about. You never actually lack money because all you really lack is the knowledge of how to get more money from other people. And if you look at it right now, where are we sitting today? We are sitting at record high levels of what's called sideline institutional capital. We have more money sitting on the sidelines, sitting in cash, not invested than we almost ever have.

Really?

We've got record levels of cash.

Just in the bank, just like in savings or what?

Yeah, and everything that is considered either money market accounts, money market accounts or cash equivalents. So that would be like short term debt, that might be actual cash accounts. And what's fascinating about that is that means that they actually suffer not from not enough money, but not enough deals. So if you're able to reframe your mind that way, then what are people actually looking for from you? They don't want your last $10,000 or $100,000. $1,000, and I don't think you should give it to them. Protect the fact that you shouldn't go into bankruptcy and that you don't have to. What do they want instead? The really, really rich, they actually want to steal your time. They do. And instead they want you to do the hard thing and they pay you to do the hard thing. And so if I was suffering from not enough capital, I don't have enough money as I was before in many times in my life, I would just be looking for where is there somebody who has money that they need to allocate to do deals? Where is there somebody who's more well off than I am, but they don't wanna spend their time working? I can get the money from them. I can do the hard labor work until the trade offsets, and then you become the person who trades somebody else's time for your money. And so, I don't want anybody to go into bankruptcy doing this. I don't want you to spend your last dollar. I don't think it's necessary, and I wish somebody had told me that sooner. Nobody did. And so in the beginning, I lost.

Lots of my own money.

Trying all this.

Trying to invest in things.

Right. And then, you know, a fascinating thing happened to me. I remember back in the day, I was an intern for a wealthy family that was friends of my parents. And I remember, like, not realizing that people had that much money. Like, I didn't come from much. I was like, they have a BMW. Like, that's crazy. You know, they have BMW and it was like an H2 Hummer. Remember those? Like, back in the day, I thought it was the coolest thing I ever seen in my life. And, and I was basically her, like, little intern. I was running around. I drove her cars. I got them washed. I picked up, you know, the kids. I did whatever she needed for, like, seven bucks an hour or whatever it was. And anyway, I remember watching them work 10 years and I worked as hard as I can for as long as I could with her. And then I went into finance. I started to learn a few things. And then I remember I came home on Thanksgiving, actually timely, and I was talking to my parents and they had come over to my parents for like a glass of wine or something. And my parents don't come from much money. So like investing was never something we understood. They have no debt. They don't understand how to use debt. It's like, very immigrant mentality when it comes to money. And I remember saying, yeah, well, I'm working on this thing in finance and we have this deal. And the husband whose name was Robert was like, well, I'd like to invest in that. And I was like, well, I don't know. I don't wanna take your money. What if I fail? What if it doesn't work out? He goes, well, that's the point. I wouldn't give you enough or it would really hurt me if you failed. So I was like, well, how does that work? You would give me the money? He's like, yeah, I would give you the money. You would take a cut of it and you would invest it in that deal. And that was the first time when I started to understand, oh, I'm doing him a favor by letting him into a deal that I have, and he gives me money for it. What is this witchcraft? Right.

Well, he has money. He's trying to figure out how to invest it.

100%.

He's going to put it in a bank or a money market fund until he feels like, oh, here's something I think could make me more than this safe investment.

Yeah. I mean, if you look at returns, why do people want private deals? Well, because the highest return over any rolling 10-year period, if you were to look at it like a bar chart, The highest return is private assets, predominantly private equity, which just means businesses that aren't listed on the public exchange, small businesses. But those businesses are also hidden. They're hard to find. You can't just go E-Trade and buy. Because of that, the wealthy are always looking for these, it's called an asymmetric risk, a way to invest a dollar and potentially get a hundred as opposed to invest a dollar and get a dollar 10 with a money market account or putting your money in the bank. If you can flip your mindset to start asking yourself, instead of how can I I work with only what I have instead saying, how do rich people think? And how can I use their money to achieve both my goal and theirs? And then we also don't have this class warfare between the rich and the rest of us because we go, oh, I'm just, that's like a conduit. They're like a conduit to more money for me. And so that is how I would look at it. If you don't have enough money right now, That's actually not your problem. You don't have enough knowledge about money and how to get it. And as soon as you fix that issue, then this whole new world opens up to you.

Wow. What would you say is the biggest mistake you've made around money that actually hurt you the most, but became the best lesson for you?

I invested in a deal with a friend, which is always a scary thing to do. I think the best friends you get from business not the best friends are because of a business. Like, it's like you and I have a great friendship, right? And it's like, I don't really need anything from you. You don't really need anything from me. But I get to like learn from you, 'cause you're in business and you get to learn from me and we get to have like fun conversations about it. The second that I come to you and I'm like, Louis, the thing is we're gonna do this together. We're gonna sell it to your audience. Here's what's gonna happen next. Slight red flag. And so I would just go back and if I could have done it again, we have a new rule, which is that I never get into business with somebody that I haven't done and watched to do business for a year. So one year, I have one year moratorium. I wouldn't get married in less than a year. And I wouldn't do a business deal in less than a year. And I did that the first time. And, you know, we lost several hundred thousand dollars. But more important, a friendship.

You lost a friendship.

Totally lost a friendship.

Like, you know, it's hard to repair after, like, there's big money wounds that are hard to repair relationships from.

It's very true. And a lot of times you think you like somebody, but then watch what happens when times get tough.

Ooh.

You think you trust somebody, but watch what happens when your incentives and theirs are not aligned. And it's where you really get to see the kind of human that any of us are, is when stuff goes bad with money. It is deep and it's survival in the modern day world.

That's how it feels.

Right?

What would you say are three questions you should ask someone and get alignment on when starting a business partnership with a friend, family member, or a business colleague?

I would say, one, tell me about a time when everything really went wrong for you in business. What happened? What you're looking for there is, do they say it was this guy's fault, this guy did this, that happened, blah, blah, blah? Or do they say, I really got him. I did XYZ and I got him, and I showed him red flags. If instead they say, hey, we failed in this endeavor, but you know what? We recouped the assets, we made the employees whole, We learned this, we moved on to the next one. Him and I are still friends, green flag. Second question I would ask is, what do you want out of this? What is like the perfect scenario that happens from this in the future? Pay it forward for me, three to five years. What happens from today to three to five years with this deal? And what you're looking for is, do you guys have the same vision of the future? And there should be no wrong answers. How I would phrase this is like, I wanna make sure that I get everything out of this for you that you want? Tell me what your future looks like so that we can align. And what you're looking for for you is like, oh, he's saying that he just wants an extra $5,000 a month and to work passively. Red flag, right? If what he's saying is, I want to build something lasting forever and I'm going to work really hard at it. And here's what I think it's going to take. Green flag. And probably the third question I would ask is simply, who else were you involved with before in your business dealings? and then I would go talk to them. Because the best people can tell you things, but what you're really looking for is show me, don't tell me. And you should ask yourself those same questions too, and make sure that you're the type of human somebody should want to partner with before we go judging others.

Because it's gonna be a lot of work in many years. You're gonna be spending all your time with this person, a lot of your time.

Oh yeah, and we talk about this a lot, but the only thing you have at the end of the day that will be your blocker to money forever is your reputation. And lots of people think about that like credit. If I have bad credit, or if I have a resume where I've only been places a year and a half, or if I have a bunch of failed startups. And that is all true, but it's more than that. It's what happens when you lost money for somebody else. It's what do other people say about you behind your back? It's what happens the second that you got further past someone, they were no longer useful for you, What did you do with that person? What do you treat the guy like that's in the valet line that asks you a question but can be of no use for you? And that reputation protection, I think, is so important.

For people that just feel overwhelmed around money, what would you say then are the three biggest skills to earn more money?

Yeah. Well, I think if you want to earn more money, the right question is exactly what you said, which is what skills do you have today? that are worth more to somebody else than they are to you. Because the first way you're gonna earn money is you're gonna be an employee. By and large, most people start out having their skills get compensated by somebody else's vision.

That needs that skill set.

100%. So you wanna figure out how can I just increase my skill set? And so that might be some of the easiest things to increase your skill set for is you wanna be a profit center, not a cost center. So what does that look like? I want to know with my skills that I can easiest and fastest as possible track. For me doing X, I make the company Y. You know, for me providing this service, the client, you know, I can charge the client Y. And so in the beginning, some of those that are really easy are like sales, incredibly important skill set always, marketing, incredibly important skill set, finance, because you understand the language of money, incredibly important. skill set, leadership, getting more out of each of your people that you work for or that you work with. Incredibly important skill set. I think those four, if you can focus on those four skill sets up front, you'll be pretty powerful and dangerous.

Sales, marketing, finance and leadership. I think leadership is probably the most important thing. It's more of like a soft skill, I guess, right? It's like if you can learn to understand your own emotions and the emotions of others and you can respond in challenging situations when company morale is down or whatever, and you can empower people to move forward on the problem at hand and create the solutions faster, that is a powerful skill set.

Absolutely. I mean, world's strongest man can't lift a boat, right? But you get a group of people together, they can lift a boat. So what's more powerful? World's strongest individual contributor or the person who can get a crowd of humans to all move in the same direction? It's just physics, right? And so I think a lot of people don't understand what real leadership is. which is, can you get a bunch of people, a crowd of people, to lift the boat together? It's always why I kind of giggled with David Goggins, because lots of people look to him for leadership advice, and he's a badass individual contributor. But if you read his books, and if you talk to people who are.

In the teams, not a very good leader, actually.

He's more of a one-man band. He's a one-man world's strongest man.

Yeah. Inspiring.

Very inspiring. He's built a lot of wealth for himself with that. But I would never employ that guy. You couldn't pay me Enough money to employ David Goggins.

He wouldn't want to work anywhere either, probably.

He also, he's turned down all my offers. But yeah, and the reason I wouldn't is because he wants to work individually and he is relentless in his single-minded pursuit. What you need for a leader is somebody who actually wants a lot more collaboration. You're like, hey, I want you, you and you to be incredibly successful. And if one day you become more successful than me, I win. And that is, that's hard for an individual contributor to think. He's like, I want to win the race. You're not going to win, I'm going to win. Yes. And if you're a leader, you're like, great, you're better, faster, stronger than I am. Go sprint, because I still get to benefit from it. So I wish I had understood that earlier. But I think you have to be good individually before you can be a good leader, because you have to earn.

People'S respect through your doing. What do you think is the biggest thing that holds people back from being a better leader for their life and.

The people in their life? I think you have to care about your people. It's literally, do you care about your people? And if you don't care about them, fake it. Because empathy is actually, it's contagious. So if you start asking questions, if I start asking questions about you, your background, your fiance, you know, your pets, your cats, your- By the way, what?

I'm building the catio right now.

Oh my God.

This week it's been built. I just thought, can I tell you? We had a conversation the last episode about catios. And I started doing research. They're building it this morning. I swear to you, I'm gonna send you a photograph of this. Full circle Catio delivery.

Catio life, let's go.

Wait, can I tell you a funny story? You got the trad wife and you're.

Building the Catio life. Listen, I was just trying to talk my husband into a mini pony, and he was talking about the lack of.

Utility in the rose. Right, right, right.

It doesn't matter.

It gets towards the end of the year. He's got mini ponies in the backyard. Rose isn't useful. I love a rose. They bring you joy. They bring me joy. For those that don't know what we're talking about in the previous episode, Cody, we'll have it linked up. I don't know how we got to be talking about catio. We're talking about what we're watching on our Instagram feed. And I said, all my content is like cats and catio, 'cause I wanna.

Find a way to get my cats outside. Hysterical. So funny story, one of my employees, Lindsay, her boyfriend is a catio maker for a living. Come on.

I swear to god, asked Tanner.

Where?

In Austin, Texas.

In Austin, Texas. Wow, that's amazing. And yeah, and I remember- Part of the reason he can make them bake right now. Well, I don't know. I haven't asked him his financials, so like, can you please- Show that to me? But I might. But I was funny. I told Lindsay, I was like, that's the worst business model of all time. I'm like, it's like custom every time it's local, you know, you can't replicate it. Like, we've got to get catio man into like toys or like, like, like something repeatable, you know? So if he's listening, you're welcome. That's great. Could you please not?

I don't know where I was going with that, but, leadership, I'm curious. what is the biggest thing that blocks you from next level of abundance financially then? What leadership skill and what tactical skill?

I was just talking, you know, I think as a, you know what usually stops me? So once you get to like, let's say a business that does 10 million a year, 20, 30, 40, 50. If you want to go even bigger than that, what stops you is getting out of the way. of your best people. You have to do two things simultaneously. You've got to attract the top talent in the world, sell them. My idea is that as a business owner, your idea is you are building a pedestal and that pedestal is lifting up your team so that their dream is higher and bigger because of your pedestal, because of what you've put them on. And so I have to be able to sell them on this really big dream. And then simultaneously, I have to trust them enough and be clear enough in my vision that I can get out of their way. And so, you know, just last night I was sending a bunch of my leaders, where am I in your way? What is a roadblock that you have? What do you need that you do not? Where am I annoying you right now? Because your business can only go as fast as the boss goes. The boss isn't going fast. The business isn't going fast. And so it's actually the same with your bank account. It's this idea of speed. And so that is the biggest hurdle in most businesses that I've seen. It's, you know, money is funny. Money is a mirror. It's a self-reflection mirror of how highly skilled we are in today's economy, how highly, how high our self-belief is, and then simultaneously how much others believe we are skilled. So it's like it is just this, this mirror on multiple sides. And if you want to attract a lot of money, you got to believe that you're capable of it. You have to get other people to believe that you're capable of it. And then you got to be able to deliver on it with your actual skill set. And so no trick mirrors, you know?

No trick mirrors. No skinny tall mirrors, right? No circus mirrors. In your book, if people want to learn how to build extraordinary wealth, they can check out your book, Main Street Millionaire. You say that sport is about how much we practice. Business is about who we hire. A lot of people have tried building businesses and they failed miserably hiring people that have taken a lot of their time and energy, the training and then just not being the right fit or they didn't stay long. It just felt like a drain to them. How do we learn how to hire great people and really incentivize them to stay around long term so it's worth investing in them?

Yeah. Your number one skill set if you want to make a massive amount You money is hiring. Period, end of story. It is attracting humans and it's really hard. Why is it so hard? Because in your job, you can go and spend 10 hours, 20 hours a day working on graphic design, working on sales. You can get so many reps in. It's really hard to get a lot of hiring reps in because one, it costs money every time you hire somebody. Two, it's hard to find talent. So even to get enough interviews to see if you're good at them or not. Takes a lot of time. Three, the feedback loop's really long, right? So like the first 30, 60, 90 days, people are ramping up. You're like, I don't even know if they're good or if he's just new. And so hiring is really hard for those specific reasons. Not enough inputs, not enough practice, not a fast enough feedback loop. And so if I was to want to get really good at growing in business, I would obsess a lot more on hiring. The other thing that's really good about obsessing on hiring is you can also then tell how to get hired a lot more easily and make more money. And so if I could obsess with what type of person is the best hire that I have, what are their characteristics that they have? What are their skill sets that they have? Why would I be willing to pay them this much or not pay them this much? And once I have that broken down, I'm like, oh, wait a second. So this person's worth $250,000 a year. This person's worth $50,000 a year. What's the difference in their skill set? Huh? I want to be even more like this person. So if I didn't have the ability to hire, I would probably just war games what a skill set looks like between the two more often so I could get in the 250 bucket and out of the 50 bucket.

You said money is a mirror. Skills plus self-lease beliefs plus others believing in your skills and your ability to deliver. When you look in the mirror, what do you see in terms of your self-belief?

Well, I believe that money is everywhere. I think it's literally just floating all around us. And it was funny because I did a podcast with Diary of a CEO, and I remember a lot of the comments were like, it's not this easy. You can't. And I realized, one, there's cultural differences. So Americans, we're wildly optimistic. We're a little brash. We're a little loud. We really believe in ourselves and innovation. Brits, less optimistic, quieter, not so loud about their accomplishments. So there's some cultural differences. Neither one is really good or bad, but one is better for making more money, which is why even Mississippi has a higher average income than most of the, we'll call it, counties in the US in Britain. Even Mississippi, one of our poorer states. And I think a large part of the reason is because we are relentless, loud, brash, and optimistic as Americans. Those are really good characteristics. for attracting money. So I, one, believe money is all around. I think I can get it whenever I need it. My husband has an incredible line, which is he says, there's 100% ROI on fun. So he's like, I always spend on fun. And he said, it's just money, we'll make more of it. And so if you believe that, then I think money is easier to get. And simultaneously, if you believe that, then when you're going out and talking to people, you're just coming at it with this like massive amount of abundance. the problem is that's really hard to do. Like when you're in debt, when you're scared about what's gonna happen next. I mean, I remember back in the day, I had multiple times, like even last year, we had like one business where the CEO reached out to me last minute. He's like, Hey, we're having a couple issues in the business. I'm like, okay, cool, man, what's going on? He's like, yeah, we're about eight weeks from running out of cash. I'm like, your sales cycle is 12 weeks. You're out of money right now. We're out of money. What are we gonna do? And in those moments where you're almost out of cash, where it's scary, it is not just that you're gonna run out of money. It is an immediate failure feel. Like you are like, oh no, I'm failing at this. I am a failure. And so, you know, I felt that so many times in business and it's hard when you're in that moment of, what if we run out of money entirely? what if I can't pay my employees? What if I can't pay my mortgage?

It's really hard to go, yeah, money's all around.

It's coming to me abundantly. It's flowing from the universe. Yeah, and I just manifest that. You're like, no, I can't. But simultaneously, I know it's not gonna help me if I believe that I'll never get money in that moment. I'm probably not gonna get out of it. And so in moments like that, what I typically do is I sit down and I write my out list, which is like, all right, I have no money. I'm struggling. This feels really painful. Let's acknowledge that for a second. Now what are we gonna do about it? And you wanna have a 90 to 10 rule, which is I think the best winners in life typically talk about the problems 10%, focus on potential solutions 90%. And so then I would start writing my list.

As opposed to 90% of the problems 10%, maybe there's a solution.

Right, which is what we're geared to do, right? We are geared as humans to look around for problems all the time because historically one problem could have eaten us. right? And so it wasn't like solutions all the time. It was just don't die. And so we have to work through that. But in my money case, I might sit down and write a list like I did when this one company was going sideways and say, okay, can we, what are all the things I could do to get money right now? Speed fast. And so it was like, well, could we increase our prices? So every dollar we make increases the mail we bring in. Could we go out and could we tell our vendors that they actually need to pay a sooner. So that's called changing your terms. Could we actually not pay people? Could we extend our terms in this business? There are all these levers that you can pull. The problem is nobody ever teaches us about money. It's the same thing for us as individuals. So if you're struggling and you have no money right now, did you know you can go to your bank and say, I need an extension on my mortgage. I want to extend it out. Can I get on a payment plan for my bank? Do you know your bank will do that with you nine times out of 10? Why? They don't want to take your house. That's an asset they have to manage, an asset they have to sell. Do you know it's the same thing often with rent? You can go and negotiate your rent payments. And so I think often if we can think about, all right, what are all the levers I could take to increase the amount of cash I have in front of me? Give myself a little breathing room, and then I could think about really earning on the upside. Yeah.

What is the personality type, do you think, that is for starting or buying a business versus a personality type that is not for owning a business?

Yeah, well, I don't think you can spell rich without risk. And so if you really want richness in your life, like if you want to be very, very rich, you are not gonna get there if you take no risk. Unfortunately, I've never seen it done that way. Maybe you guys could tell me if I'm wrong. So, and if you wanna get rich, here's the stats. One thing that's cool stat, 79% of all millionaires in the US are self-made. That number shocked me. 'Cause if you heard in the news, you'd think, no, no, it's all handed down, you know? But 60% of all millionaires own a business. So you immediately know, well, I have a 60% higher likelihood of becoming a millionaire if I own a business. And if I want to make crazy levels of money, like 30 million plus, 88% of people who are worth 30 million plus own a business. So first you got to be honest with yourself. What do I really want? If I want to be a millionaire, And if I wanna be worth 10 million plus, hard to get there without having some version of ownership or equity.

And taking risk and working your butt off nonstop.

100%. Like, I giggled 'cause another YouTube video did a video of me and it was like, Make millions, it's easy. No work.

Passive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I'm pretty sure I've never said that in my life.

How many hours do you think you work a week?

Oh, a lot. I mean, when I was in finance, I was working 70, 80 hours a week. I remember one of my colleagues, Eduardo, we were walking back from a, we were in New York at the time, and we were walking back from work one day, super late at night, and he just passed out in the middle of the road. And I was like, holy hell, Eduardo, are you okay? What's going on? And he was exhausted. It was like passing out from exhaustion.

Working 80 hour weeks for years probably.

Yeah, and he was young. So analyst program, I was only there for like two years. He would have been about the same. just that compounding plus, you know, it's a work hard, play hard environment.

And that was an employee job. You're an employee. But you were making a lot of money as an employee, but that was what it took to put in the time to have a skill set at the right business to be able to deliver results to get that type of income. It took you 78 hours a week.

Yeah, for sure.

So you can't do it with like 40 hours a week, just kind of casually showing up and expect like multiple six figures.

I don't think so.

Do you know any business that's paying someone to just do the bare minimum?

No, unless you are the capital. That's where you start.

Unless you have the money.

Unless you got the money, then I have many businesses that I do no work for now.

Right, right, right.

But that's because I did risk.

Invested.

I put money down.

You can lose it all.

And I could lose it all. And the only way you get around that is you work really hard as an employee for somebody else and you get a percentage of the company, which is something that we do for our employees and I think really important. but you got to become valuable enough to do it.

How valuable do you need to be? How much do you need to be earning for that business, like bringing in for that business?

Well, there's two ways that you can actually get equity in businesses that we learned in private equity that I think are useful for people. The first way is you can ask to buy in. So you can say, Hey, I don't have a lot of cash, but we're going to do this deal over here. Could I put $10,000 into this business deal? You know, hey, you're gonna do this partnership. Could I like buy into the partnership for 10K? And we don't, we're not taught how to do that as normal people and we should think that way because what is that telling me? That's like, hey, you're willing to put a little risk on the table. And also you're not trying to sell me that you should get XYZ entitlement. You're saying, put some skin in the game. It's the worst. Right. So that's, and that's how most private equity guys make their first dollars is they are just allowed to put some skin in the game, which is great. And then the second way is you become so valuable that the business can't see itself operating without you. And this is typically how startups do. So it's like, hey, you're so valuable, you're going to do the first stage of XYZ of the company. Because of that, we're going to give you a percentage, and every single year you'll get a little bit more of that percentage over like three to five years. So two ways to get a percentage of a deal. And we teach one in the book called partial acquisitions. And so basically, if right now you're working, like, let's say somebody's working for you or me, right? And if you're working for a company right now today, and you love what you do, and you want to stay there, but you want to get some income on the side, you have a skill set, you're a photographer, I don't know, you're a videographer. Then what could you do? You could go to other companies that have, that need your skill set, and you could say, Hey, if I can increase the revenue of your business, If I could decrease the costs of your business, or I could decrease your pain of the business, could I get a percentage of the business? And you could do that both for distributing equity, that's where you cash flow or regular equity. This is what I'm teaching a lot more people to do, because there's a stair step way to buy a business. Maybe you're not ready to go all in. We'll learn how to get a small percentage instead.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you're not a personality type that doesn't like risk, you shouldn't be a business owner.

Not outright, not outright. I don't think you're gonna want the call on a Friday night when you're gonna run out of cash.

How many hours do you put in a week on average as a business owner versus when you were an employee?

Well, I like work, so I just worked a lot both times. I think, you know, I was probably working from seven until seven or eight or nine.

As an employee.

As an employee.

And now as an owner.

I'm probably working from seven until six as an owner. But a little bit on the weekends. And maybe when I was an employee, I wasn't working on the weekends. And, you know, I think when you're an owner, your schedule kind of looks more, I think, you know, when your name's on the door, it's easier to work more hours. Like, let's be honest, it's just easier. Yeah, it's yours. It's yours. And so, but when you're the owner, it's also easier when you set the hours to work more of them. And so, you know, for me, I got no problem. taking, you know, four weeks off and going to Europe. And I'm checking on stuff every day a little bit, but they're mainly running the business. When I was an employee, that wasn't an option. But when I did go on vacation, I was an employee, wasn't checking. You know, I was like, Good luck, bye. So it really depends on how you wanna run your life, you know, too. But I think the one thing that I do wanna impress upon people is like, there is nothing wrong with being an employee. Being an employee is amazing. It means that you do not carry all the risk and you can actually become massively wealthy as an employee if you understand how to become so valuable that you get a piece of multiple games. Like for instance, right now we're we're hiring a president for one of our companies and he's from a huge company. So do we have a right like it's not really reasonable that he would come and do this for one of my companies, given what he's done in the past.

And you couldn't pay him the salary where he's making it like maybe one fifth.

Of that. And so why would he come work for me? Because I'm like, listen, you could go work for this one company and have one shot at goal. If that company wins, you're going to win big. But the founders got to sell at the right time. You guys got to hit these huge milestones. The investors got to get paid. You've got one bet. Or with me, you can come into this company and you can take an equity bet on this company, but also a bunch of these other little bites. And so That's why I think private equity is so interesting and why people stay as private equity employees for decades. I mean, I have a friend, let's call him Frank, who's probably one of the richest guys I know. And he has been an employee in a private equity firm for like 30 years. He's like dating celebrities, has a plane, he's an employee, but he gets little bites at the apple. And so I'm trying to really explain this to my employees.

Less risk. No risk.

The only risk is getting fired.

Right, right.

You know, and that you have to work a lot.

He's not managing payroll, he's not having to hire and fire people necessarily, or maybe that's his job, but he's not dealing with having to bring in all the money constantly to keep the business running.

Right, well, and let's talk about the truth of the matter here, is that 90% of startups fail in a 10-year period. Most startups fail in the first three to four years, and in those first three to four years, you make $0. In fact, you spend on average 30 to $50,000 a year attempting to make money.

Oh, man.

And then, when you eventually do make money in year three or four, the average entrepreneur pays themselves anywhere from $40,000 to $60,000 a year in salary.

So you go five years making no money, essentially. Exactly. Working more hours than his employee.

Right.

What's the benefit then, if you spend a half a ticket of your life.

Where most likely you're going to fail? I think that is the question we.

Have to ask ourselves.

Which doesn't seem exciting, Ness. No, that's why I get excited about boring businesses, because what are the two reasons that most businesses fail. Well, 60% of businesses fail because they don't have product market fit. Which means, like, I had an idea. I wanted to sell these graphic mugs. These graphic mugs are amazing. I asked all my buddies, you can buy one, Louis?

Like, yeah, of course. Great idea.

You should go be your own CEO. Everyone thinks it's the best idea ever. Then you're gonna sell millions. Right. Then you go and create the company. And all of a sudden, Louis is a little cheap. Nobody's buying my mugs, right? So the market didn't actually want what you were selling. And then the second reason most businesses fail, which is about 20% of the reason is lack of cash flow. So you have this big idea, nobody wants it, you run out of cash before you get to figure it out. And so I think we've been sold a total lie about business creation and startups, which is that employment sucks and also we should go start a business instead. And what often happens, and I hire a lot of these people, is they go start their business. They're like, oh my God, this is worse than employment, and I'm not making any money. And so if you're gonna play the odds, if you're gonna go gamble, you can play the slots and know that you have the worst odds out there playing the slots. And if you're gonna gamble, you at least are probably gonna play blackjack if you're good at it, because you know that's where you have the best odds. Business is very similar. The best odds is somewhere where the business already has product market fit and.

The business is already cash flowing.

It's already making money. It's already profitable. And it's been doing it for years. So that's why I'm obsessed with this idea of boring businesses and buying them because statistically it has less risk and it has more ability for you to earn over time. It's not no risk, but it is less risk than a startup. And nobody talks about that.

What are the main reason people are selling their profitable businesses then? If a business has been profitable for five or 10 years and it's so hard to be successful, why sell the business?

There is a huge gap in education asset value in business owners and ability to sell your assets. Think about it this way. If you owned a house anywhere in the country and that house was too small for you and it was still livable, it's still a house, maybe it's not the nicest house, it's not really what you want. You would never just go, let's just light that fire and like walk away, right? It would be, that would be crazy. You'd be like, okay, well let's sell it for whatever it's worth, or let's put a renter in there, or let's do something with that asset. We think about a house like an asset. In the US, we do not think about our businesses as assets. We do not think about our business lines and divisions as assets. And so what do we do instead? We just walk away from a house that somebody else could live in. And so, you know, there was a, who was I talking to? It was, oh, it was Sean Rad, founder of Tinder. So him and I were chatting the other day. Yeah, it's a buddy. Love him.

I got him connected to, he's lost a lot of weight in the last year, 'cause I got him set up with my trainers.

No way.

Yeah, so he's been, you know, just transforming his health. He's been doing great.

Oh, good. I didn't tell, I'll have to tell them that we're buddies. So he was funny 'cause I was explaining this to him and he's like, you know what's interesting? Because I went into a, oh, God, I might mess this up slightly, but let's say that he went into like an old book binding shop. And in this book binding shop in LA, he looked over to the left and there were like these racks and racks and racks of books. and he was like, these are some cool vintage books. And so he was going through them and he was like, Hey, I wanna buy a couple of these from you. And she's like, no, I don't buy them. You can just take them. And he's like, no, no, I'm gonna, I wanna pay you for them. What's the deal with these? Why do you have thousands of books here? And she's like, oh, well my husband had a bookstore and he died or they got divorced. And so we shut down the bookstore. So what are all of those books? Those are assets. And if they had been thinking about their business as a house, What would she have done? She would have done an appraisal, had somebody come out, look at what the books are worth. She might have had somebody come and look at what the lease was worth for the business. She might have sold the whole business or done an asset sale. And so Sean ended up buying a bunch of one-off books, and then he was laughing. He's like, God, I felt bad because I went and checked them later, and I'm like, totally underpaid for these things. Wow. Because they were worth something. And so people sell their business because they don't understand the value of the business, and they don't think it's sellable. And like an example that I would probably give you is like, you've done it. Like you've had a business line before, right? Let's say your education business. And you're like, this isn't serving the current business right now. I'm gonna shut it down. Reasonable. You're like, I'm the face, you know, it's not set up to sell. You haven't prepped a business that you created to be a business you could sell. Right. Because most business owners do not know how to do that. And so you shut it down because you're like, well, reputational risk, all of these things. But let's say that you went through our program that we teach and we talk about like prepping a business for a sale like a cake. You would have done all these tasks, which meant that you would have removed yourself as key man and you would have had a business that somebody else could take over. And the benefit there is somebody else gets to steal your 10,000 hours and you don't have to close a 10-year asset bill.

Sure.

That you have.

I did that with my first business and the person that took it over, it was kind of like all my online courses before I launched School of Greatness. And the person that took it over ran it to the ground. Did you sell it? Yeah, I sold it to him, but then it was also a sell over like three years. So he ran it to the ground after like four months. Did you get your cash out of it? First few months and that was it. Okay, so you sold me a lot. So that was a challenging thing, but.

It was a lesson, you know? Yeah, but I think this is a perfect example. So I bet if third party people looked at that, they'd be like, why would Lewis sell this business? He's making, I'm gonna make a million dollars. Making $100,000 a year from the business. That's a great business. Nobody would sell $100,000 a year business. But why would you sell it? Because you had a million dollar opportunity over here. And so you have opportunity costs. Yeah, exactly. So there's $900,000 that's waiting on Lewis.

To make a sale, right? Well, the big lesson was kind of what your biggest mistake was, it sounds like, was, you know, it was a partnership that wasn't working out.

Yeah.

And we weren't seeing eye to eye for like many months, probably six to nine months. And it was exhausting trying to be in partnership with someone where we just didn't have the same vision.

Right.

I'm not blaming him or myself. We just weren't aligned. And we didn't ask those questions early on. I didn't ask those questions. He didn't ask those questions. And so we didn't, we had clarity over like, let's go make some money over the next year. But we weren't thinking years in the future. We were assuming the other person wanted the same thing.

Yeah.

And that created a lot of stress.

Yeah. Well, there's a whole chapter in there about partnerships and how to not knock them up. It's not perfect, but there's, I have like 12 key lessons about partnerships that are really important in selling it. But I bet, did you do that sale with seller financing? Was that like largely, hey, a percentage of future profits? Yeah, we did. Yeah. So he sounds like he actually got.

A pretty good deal out of you.

He got a great deal. Yeah, because he was able to talk.

You into his vision of the future. Because I knew he couldn't pay me upfront.

Right.

He wasn't able to do it. And he was like, I'm gonna use this money to do the marketing and.

The ad spend, and he just ran into the ground. And you probably didn't do a real.

Deal process to have multiple people come.

In and potentially venture business.

Yeah, exactly. But why would you do that? And I was also just like exhausted. You know, it's like, for a lot of people are exhausted running their business.

For years, well, they might sell it on the cheap, 'cause they just wanna get out. That's exactly right. That's the 70s, which is, you know, death, divorce, distress. I always forget this. You move, death to force, distress, you move locations, you have disagreement. So that would be like a business partnership. You have.

Debt.

Yeah, that's not the exact one, but we could use that one. We've still it in since I'm forgetting it. And somebody on the internet will tell me what the seven is. Sure, sure. But for most small business owners, they're in the pain cave when they're looking to sell. In this case, largely retirees, because 60% of all small businesses are owned by people 65 plus in the US, which is wild. So a lot of them just want to retire.

And they've been running it for 10, 20, 30 years, maybe some of these businesses.

Right. But a lot of these business owners too just have the same thing you have, which is opportunity costs. I'm running this landscaping business, but this.

Roofing business is really taking off.

Exactly. So I think that's a beautiful story to share because a lot of people don't think it happens. It happens all around us.

And it can be exhausting. And that's, I mean, not to be opportunistic, but that could be the time where you could swoop in and find a business that is distressed, that's struggling or a partnership is falling apart and.

They need to sell. Yeah, it's one of the seven slash.

Three and a half days. There you go. I thought you were going to say like duck, dive, dodge from like dodgeball.

Well, we were laughing earlier because In the book, we come up with all these acronyms. Yeah, then you don't remember them. You have to look up the five things.

And then I forget the acronyms. What are the 26 steps to building wealth?

Okay, step by step.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's why you need SOPs to business. Exactly. You do have a chapter or a section in the book that talks about how to 10x your profits in year one. When someone's launching a business or looking to buy a business, can they actually 10x their profits in their first year?

Yes, 1,000%. However, do not buy a business based on that expectation. So I say you buy businesses based on realities and profits, not dreams and potential.

Kind of like getting into a relationship too.

Right, exactly. Don't expect a lot of change. But you can model it. You can do a financial forward-looking model on it. So for instance, in our businesses, you buy a business based on the profits in the business. So if the business is doing 100K, Typically, that means you're going to buy the business for anywhere from $100K to $500K. 1 to 5X is the profit multiple. But what's interesting about these small businesses is a lot of these businesses are so under optimized. And we have lots of ways we talk about this. But in this instance, this was a laundromat that we owned. And basically it shows how you could use seven different types of acquisitions in order to grow the business. Plus some things like price increases. But for instance, you might have a laundromat and then you might buy a second laundromat. So you have economies of scale. Plus you could use the equity of one laundromat to acquire the other laundromat. You could add additional revenue lines, right? So you could add gumball machines and soap dispensers. You could buy the real estate of where the laundromat's sitting and then thus get the rental income from your laundromat plus everybody else in there. You could also do some vertical integration. So you could be thinking, well, what's my biggest cost? Soap? You know, could I white label a soap brand? And then could I sell that? And so there are all these ways that you can think about using acquisitions to grow your business. And I think acquisitions are the hack to fast growth. Like I have never heard of a billion dollar company that has acquired zero things. I don't think it exists.

Really?

No, they're at least acquihiring talent, they're acquihiring competitions, competitors, different product lines. But if you want to go fast, you buy 100 clients at a time as organically acquire one at a time. Even Facebook, like Instagram, perfect example. WhatsApp, perfect example. The big boys play in the game of acquisitions.

They got a lot of cash to spend on that, was it $5 billion or something?

Yeah, but if you think about it, what's interesting is they use cash because for them, cash is their cheapest asset.

Speed.

Yeah, well it's speed and it's cheap. What should they have done? If the WhatsApp guys are really smart and the Instagram guys are really smart, they would have asked for a lot.

More equity in Facebook.

So, you know, once you see this-.

Five bills, all right.

You know, it's like, I mean, it's.

Like, okay, do I need more- I.

Think that the Instagram guys said- They.

Sold it for a billion, right?

Yeah.

They said they regretted that transaction.

Because how much was that worth then? Oh, God. I mean, they would have taken more stock from Facebook, right? Yeah, 100x. So I think that again goes back to this, to me it feels like, kind of like you open, like, I don't know, Pan's Labyrinth or Pandora's Box. Like once you look inside, you're like, oh, wait a second, we were taught for so long that money is hard to get, that it's impossible, that it's not around us. And once you start to play the game of ownership and deal making, you realize money is often the cheapest thing. And once that happens, then your world can really change.

What about for people say, okay, but if I'm gonna get an investor, I have to give so much of this business that I want to do a deal in. And what if I only get 10, 20, 30%? Is it worth me buying in a business where someone else is just giving cash to own 60, 70, 80% where I'm still doing all the work for 10, 20%?

Yeah, well, I would say, why'd you give them 60, 70, 80%?

Whatever. Whatever the number is, you know what I mean though? And then the more you need to raise, you have to dilute your equity even more.

Yeah, you're right.

I have friends that started a business, I won't say who they are, you probably know them, they're in your town. They're worth a few hundred million in their business, right? They've been around for about a decade. And they've had to raise money over and over and over again at scale for their business, physical product, good business. They're in tons of retailers, but they only have like a few percent each now because they've just had to keep raising to be able to scale it. and they put all this time and energy in for a decade. Maybe they get a sale where they make a few million? I don't know, but maybe not.

It's a great point. So here's the beautiful part about deal making. The smarter deal maker that you are, the less you give away over time. I mean, contrarian thinking is a perfect example. We own 100% of contrarian thinking. I haven't taken a single investor, but my first couple businesses I did, It took some investors because I didn't actually realize how to value myself or my asset. It kind of goes back to that house example. We have to get more reps at understanding how to value things and create deal structures that benefit us. And so if I have a business that I know is going to need a lot of cash, isn't it wild that all we know how to do is go out and raise venture funds? Why do you think that is? Well, it's because that is the most lucrative. Equity is the most lucrative. in a fast growing startup you can get. So if you have a fast growing startup, what should you do instead? You should take a little bit more debt risk, which is like tactical to understand.

Because you're not giving them equity.

You're not giving up equity. You're giving up a percent that is set as opposed to a forever percent of future upside. You should give up less and try to talk people into your sweat equity being worth more. You should think about structuring deals where you go, Hey, I'm going to give you equity in the business, but I'm going to have the right to buy you out at X term at this time. You should potentially maybe be giving them some smaller percentage of equity, but distributions, so they don't take a huge chunk of it. So this is the stuff that I learned on Wall Street that I didn't realize is why the people on Wall Street are so much richer than us. It's because they understand how money actually works, and we were never taught this stuff. Well, we were taught, we were taught like budget, don't buy the Starbucks, you know, negotiate your salary once a year so that you get a 5% increase instead of a 3% increase. We weren't taught about warrants and ratchets and options and, you know, none of that. And yet, if we learned how to do that, your friends, we could be doing way smarter deals than straight up equities. And the thing that you negotiated in the beginning, It doesn't have to be the thing you end up with. I think as Americans too, we have this funny thing. We have this guy, Kareem, who's an investment analyst on our team. And he's the best negotiator of all time.

He's Egyptian. And so I always- oh, man, when.

I went to Egypt, I was getting negotiated with everywhere I went. Yeah, it's just the culture. It's like- We Americans were not that used to negotiating. And so the other thing that's cool is you have to remember, what do the rich never really want? They don't ever want to do work once they've given you cash for something. They're saying, I want you to deal with it. Bill Perkins says that to me all the time. He's like, Can I give you more money? I'm like, no, you want more of my life? I know what you're trying to do here. No. And so even for those guys, you might push back and be like, We're unhappy with the percent that we have right now. We're working way too hard on this business. We're your future growth. We want you guys to take some money off the table and we want you guys to give us some additional equity. We'll distribute up to this point. But as Americans, we're not really taught to get comfortable negotiating. It feels like a retrade. It feels bad. Maybe we feel cheap, but we shouldn't. We should just know that that is what Wall Street does all day.

What's interesting, my fiance Martha, she's really good at negotiating. She's Mexican. She's Mexican. And she, I mean, anytime we're trying to buy anything or build anything within our house, she's always just negotiating, negotiating, negotiating. And I love that about her because she's not just gonna say, okay, they said it was this price and we're just gonna pay it. She's always trying to find a way to say, okay, what can we do to make it less? How can we make it half this price? What would that look like? And just constantly enrolling people in bringing it down. And I think it's a beautiful skill set because you're saving money in that.

Process that you can invest in other places.

That's a good woman right there. It's a great woman. You guys are thinking about my wealth, you know? It's like, go save me some money, you know? Also, I mean, do you think women are an asset or a liability in a relationship for men?

Well, they should be an asset.

What makes women an asset for men versus a liability?

Depends on what you want as a man. But, you know, I think a good woman should be a partner in life to carry the burdens through just about everything. A burden might be that she is the negotiator and you are the earner. You know, a good woman might be that she takes care of the family and offsets a couple hundred thousand dollars in potential third party costs. instead of a cook, a housekeeper, a nanny, a surrogate, you got her. Or it might be somebody who also earns beside you, or maybe you do a mixture of both. But I do think that these days, the only thing that I do not like about the man versus female thing is like, listen, I'm happy to stay home. I'm happy to cook and clean and take care of just of everything. If you're working, and I'm not, if we're both working, and I am the one doing all of the cooking, all of the cleaning, and that's the expectation, 'cause I'm a woman and you're a man, opt out, unsubscribe, no thanks. So I think that the idea of a traditional wife, cool, if she actually gets to be traditional.

Hashtag tradwife.

Yes, and it's back. We're back. But that's the only part that I get upset about gender norms. I mean, my husband and I, he loves cooking. Like, I like stuff clean. We both run the business together. But like, don't tell me that I because I'm a woman, I got to do all this extra stuff just because of it. If we're both getting up early, grinding and working, I don't like that.

What would you say if a man is very entrepreneurial risk taker who's trying to build wealth for his life, he gets in a relationship with a woman, they get engaged, they get married. What are the three qualities he should be looking for? in order to feel like she's really to help contribute to the long-term wealth versus take away from it. Maybe what are like the soft skills of those qualities?

I, one, I love what Jeff Bezos said, which is, if I was in a third world prison, I know my wife would help get me out. Like you need to ride or die. You know, you want that person to be so aligned and so crazy that you could trust her. you know, you were like, I murdered somebody, where's the body? That's what we're looking for. This is your partner for life. It's gonna be the mother of your children. Like she better be able to get some done.

That would be one for me.

Kind of like resourcefulness. 100%.

Willing to do whatever it takes.

Figuring it out.

Yeah, and super, super loyal.

Not feeling helpless. Like I have no clue. No, I think that like victim mentality of a woman, I mean, real traditional women back in the day, they were some hard mother, you know? Oh yeah. Like so I think you can still be in your flowery dresses and hanging out in sunflower field, but feel like that woman's got your back. And then the second thing is, I do think, you know, I've seen it happen with my very wealthy guy friends, let's say, and they bring somebody on board into their relationship, and that wealth ain't doing so hot in a moment. And that woman's gone. And I can sense him a mile away. I see it up front.

Really?

Oh my gosh.

The women leave.

Yeah, 100%.

It's so sad.

Well, is it, or did you choose a woman that you knew wasn't loyal, wasn't there for him, wasn't gonna be there for you, just wanted your stuff? And, you know, we all fall in love and have made mistakes and I've certainly done that, but like, I think that loyalty plus resourcefulness is so important. Because that's what you're gonna pass on to your kids too, if that's important to you.

100%. Of all the millionaires you know, how many of them do you think are actually happy and fulfilled human beings?

I think that, I think money, kills misery a lot more than it helps happiness. Like it is a miserable existence to be on the poverty line, not able to figure things out, not able to take care of your family. I mean, we're seeing deaths of despair all around this country from fentanyl usage, from antidepressants, divorce rates, lack of people having sex and getting married. And so I think Money helps a lot with decreasing our misery level. When it comes to happiness though, the funny thing about money is it's an amplifier to me. You become a lot more of whoever you were. So if you're a nasty, gnarly, unhappy human without money, you're probably gonna be a nasty, gnarly, unhappy human with money. You're just gonna be able to affect the world a little bit more.

In a negative way.

In a negative way. And I think that's why, like a lot of people have a hole inside of them. And then they go and fill it with money. And that's why I think, you know, the Bible says that the root of all evil is the desire for money. Not that money is the root of all evil. Very important word change there. And so if you desire money above all else and you try to fill your black hole inside of you with money, I don't think that makes you happy. If you love producing, helping people, changing the world, laboring, you know, that and the byproduct of that is money, then I think you're a lot happier. But no, I've met very, very many a miserable millionaire, but it wasn't because of money. It was already there and then money makes it better.

It amplifies it though.

Yeah.

It can make it feel even a heavier weight sometimes, right?

I think so. Yeah, I mean, you've met these people too.

How many people who are millionaires or billionaires that you know, or have interviewed or been around that you think have a lot of fulfillment in their life? What's the percentage? Is it half? Is it 10%? Is it 90%? Or do you think a lot of them still struggle with finding peace, fulfillment, enjoying their lives, even with all the money? I don't meet very many peaceful billionaires.

I don't think I've ever met one. You know, billionaire, in order to get that level of wealth, you have to do things that no normal human would do. Is it worth it then? Is it worth being a billionaire? It might just never have been the peaceful type of human. you know, that just might not be who they are. And thank God they exist in the world for a lot of things that are better for all the rest of us, actually.

The Innovation, everything.

Yeah. 100. The job creation, the lift. I mean, the best thing that's ever happened to poverty levels in the, in the world is capitalism, which is crazy. People who are not peaceful at all. Right. Pushing to make the world a little bit better. But I have met a lot of really joyful billionaires, so they're not peaceful, but they got a lot of Joy because, yes. It's pretty fun being rich. Like, you know, it's not so much the one off things. It's just what you can do. You're like, I want to go build a school in Africa. Do it. You know, I want to take my family and go on the best trip they've ever been on. I want to buy 37 catios and go catios for all.

And many things.

We get a catio and you get a catio.

That's your Oprah.

I know. You know, everybody in the audience is going to be like, I don't want this, Louis.

Catio life.

But yeah, I think many billionaires are joyful, but not peaceful.

How many billionaires are unhappy?

I maybe met 30 or 40 billionaires, which is a lot, because there's not that many of them in the world. And you know what a lot of them are? A lot of them are Asperger's, which is hysterical to me. I was talking to Joe Lonsdale about that, founder of Palantir. And I was like, you know, I've met all these tech billionaires in, in Austin and a lot of them there. Yeah.

And man, some of you guys are.

Really hard to talk to, you know? And he's like, yeah, we are all, most of us are neurodivergent in some way. We're a little like off. And so if you came at us with like a normal, Hey, how you doing? What's going on? They're like, yeah, no thanks. I have no interest in that. And when you're that rich, you don't really have to play by other people's rules. You just don't engage how you don't want to engage. I mean, think about all the things you can cut out of your life if you're a billionaire. You don't have to go to the DMV ever. You're never at the airport 'cause you're flying private. I think the airport is a great equalizer for people. You're not taking the bus, you're not going to the grocery store. Everything comes to you when you're at that level. And so your ability to engage with humans, like normal everyday humans like me and you, I think really materially decreases because they're- you-'re just living in another world. You're living in a bubble and you get to affect the outcome. When, who was it? It was Bill Gates. They're like, How much is this apple or this banana? And he's like, 20 bucks. They're like, Jesus. He's like, he was so out of touch from reality, 'cause he has built his own world. That's one of the reasons why I'm not sure so much about living forever, because I think what would happen is some of us would become so, so wealthy that we would become completely disconnected from what everyday normal humans were.

We wouldn't be an alien on Earth.

Yeah, I think so. Or it'd be like those science fiction shows where we're floating in the ether and everybody down below is something different.

Are you afraid to die?

No. No, I don't think about it much, though. I'm afraid to die if I don't feel like I'm doing the things I want to do in life. That scares me.

Why?

Because I want to felt like it mattered to live here, which is interesting because theoretically, it doesn't. And, you know, I'm Christian.

I believe in God.

It doesn't matter to live here. I don't think so. I mean, we're all, like, grains of sand at some point over time. We can try to affect the outcome in, in some way. And I hope that I was able to impact people over time. That's kind of the whole point of being on the internet, I think. Otherwise, you could just get rich quietly. Like, you and I, if we want to get really, really rich, probably the best way to do it is not be on the internet. It's what I was doing before. It's private Equity. Go buy a bunch of assets, grow those assets, get third party capital, put it in there. I could become a billionaire. There's a set path. It's a high probability path.

Why not take that path?

Because I think that that leads to maybe less joyful lives.

More misery.

I think that leads to more misery. I think that leads to poorer outcomes for communities, poorer outcomes for businesses. Like walking into a Starbucks, the soul sucked out of it. It's the soul sucked out of the employees too. Walking into a corner coffee shop, I love like a local one. And so I think soul sucking. So I don't just care about money. I want to have some impact on the world because it's fun. But there was a point where I was scared to die. And that was when I was doing something I didn't like. When I was I was an employee in finance at the time. I saw all of the people ahead of me with like Lambos and Ferraris and second and third wives and bottle service at clubs. This was kind of like old school finance days. You know, everybody would have like multiple washes and kind of like show off which watch, which bottle of wine was the most expensive.

Steak houses every night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I remember one time we were flying in one of the execs planes and, you know, those things can get bumpy. And it wasn't so bumpy where I had like some existential, you know, crisis, But it was bumpy enough where I thought about it and thought, God bless, if I die right now as like an exec at a finance company that just makes more money for myself and these guys, like, I would be pretty pissed. I would be mad at myself because I wanted life to be this like great adventure where it mattered and I did cool things and I learned and I loved and I adventured and I was not doing that. And so that is when I was scared to die.

How old are you now?

38.

Have you had kind of a midlife crisis yet? Or like more of awakening of like, oh, it's technically, I mean, maybe it's not halfway complete, but it's close to halfway complete. So like we're going to the third quarter.

Yeah, yeah.

And what have I done for the last four decades?

I feel pretty good about the scoreboard thus far. So I feel, you know, one of the best parts is like, When you move fast continuously on life with a specific vision aligned to your ethics and moral compass, it feels like not as scary to die. Pain maybe feels scary, like being tortured to death sounds scary, but just it ending, I feel like I'm pretty proud of what we've put here thus far. Not done, but I'm proud. But when I wasn't living my own life, and I don't know if you've ever done that, I definitely had a period where I was not living my life.

Yeah, I was a truck driver for three months.

Oh, yeah.

Six hours a day driving in the cornfields back and forth from Columbus to Cincinnati every day.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Plus you're big. It's like, you don't have an option. This was like free, like Bluetooth, and it was like you had a CD player and it was like, there's always so much you could do and I couldn't call anyone and do anything like that. So it's just like just driving through the cornfields on the highway, flat, no scenery, driving truck auto parts in the back and just transferring it over. Getting other parts and bringing it back. Napa.

Yeah. Yeah.

For six hours a day.

Yeah. Those and that moment you probably felt.

Like, but I needed money. It paid 250 a week, though, because I needed time to train in the morning. This is like when I was trying to go play professional football.

Yeah.

So I was trying out for teams. I would train in the morning and then train at night. So I needed a job where I could do both. And this was six hours from like the middle of the day. And so I was able to get up, work out, Drive a truck, six hours, come back, work out, sleep, get up and do it again. But I only made 250 bucks a week.

But did you feel purpose because you were working towards your bigger goal or.

It was just- no, I was just like, this is not the type of purpose that I want to be working towards. Interesting. It's like, how could I find a.

Way to achieve my goal quicker?

Yeah. How can I, you know, network more or find another opportunity that pays me more?

And then what happened?

I was bouncing on the weekend also. So I was making like, I don't know, 50 to 100 bucks a night. getting tips, you know, a security at a nightclub, and I don't drink alcohol. So it's kind of like, but whatever I could do, it was like Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, just to try to have the time to be able to work on my dream.

Yeah.

So it was a challenge. But it was also like, I think having that experience and multiple experiences like that made me realize like, oh, I need to overcome all of my insecurities and fears. that are keeping me here because I have limited skills going back to the beginning of this conversation. I couldn't speak in public. I didn't have the confidence to like put myself out there in certain ways. So I was like, I need to join a public speaking class. This is when I joined Toastmasters, which I was telling you about before. So I went to a public speaking class every single week for this year. So I was like, I need skills. I need skills. And my fears are holding me back from having the confidence to relate to powerful individuals. I need mentors. How do I find them? I need to go to events. So I started going to events and that's when I got on LinkedIn. I got on LinkedIn and I started reaching out to people, even though I had no skills, no college degree, no confidence, and I was trying to do football stuff. And it was all about skill acquisition during that time. And that skill acquisition gave me courage and confidence to then go meet with the right people to create opportunities. That's what it was.

Yeah, you know, I-- Because it was.

That pain of like, I don't wanna be sitting in a truck for six hours a day. That pain made me realize, okay, I don't want this pain, so I'd rather be embarrassed and humiliated and experience that pain if it's gonna give me the chance of making more money.

I totally agree. Yeah, I never had-- I always liked my blue collar jobs. Like I did construction. I did work on a construction site. I wasn't the worker. I was like in the little air.

Conditioning thing doing the voice.

And whatever. I always liked those jobs 'cause there was so much movement. Like you could be out, you were talking to the person, you were in the car, you were going. I always, when I felt trapped, was in my corporate job. Like I remember at Vanguard, my very first job, which is where I think dreams go to die, is still to this day.

The Vanguard.

Oh, God. Hopefully they're gonna sponsor this video. But they used to, I would have to clock in in the morning with my little. Timestamp. Time. Yeah. And I would have to clock out every time I went to the bathroom and lunch. Oh, man.

So that's school.

And I was in the call center. So I was connected directly, this would have been in 2008, so it was crisis time. I was connected directly to the phone lines. The second that you got connected, people would start calling, you'd have to pick it up, and it was chaos. I mean, it was, oh my God, you've stolen all my money. Oh, oh. Because, you know, that was in their 401, they didn't realize what happened. How could you do this? Crying people in the background, and you do whatever you could, and then you'd hang up, and then the next one, and then the next one. And, yeah, that's a lot. Fah-ha, and that was, I was 21 at the time when I did that. And I remember the moment that I was like, it was, you know, fluorescent lights, those drop ceilings, right? The padded walls, the cubicles. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God, it's still, that actually, that is where my hell is. It's making me uncomfortable to talk about it. And I remember one of my colleagues and friends at the time, she was like, she was having like mini panic attacks from it. It's a lot for a 21-year-old to take on. and then that feeling of being trapped in your chair, like you can't get up. And then I remember- you- have to.

Ask to go to the bathroom?

Yeah, you had to clock in, clock out. And I remember she came to me one day and she was like, I feel better today. I'm like, great, what's going on? What'd you learn? And she had started on antidepressants.

Oh my gosh.

And she started gaining weight from that time and said, it was just like the downward spiral. And so that was the one time where I was like, I'm not doing this. like, I will not live this way. And so I started doing the same thing that you did. How can I acquire skills? How can I network? How can I become more valuable to other people? How can I work more on this miserable thing so I never have to do it again? And that was when I was like, nobody will ever be able to tell me again that I have to do a miserable job that I hate, and that I have to clock in and clock out without purpose. Because, you know, I think you can handle a lot of like, I've had I worked, that was a 40 hour work week at Vanguard. That was a 40 hour clock in, clock out, no work home with you, work week.

Nobody's calling you at home.

Nobody's, no responsibility, no boss pushing you. Just do your job and leave at five. That's it. And then I went to Goldman where they were like, on you and you're in early and where are you and you failed and we're, you know, firing these people and I loved it. Because I was like, they're making me better. They're pushing me to grow. They're pushing me to grow. They're doing something every day. And by the time I'm done with this, I will be so good that my skill set will be so high that nobody will be able to tell me that I have to do something I don't agree with anymore. Right. And so.

And you were there for what, two years?

Three years.

I was there for like two years. You developed a lot of skills in that time. You had to invest a lot of your energy and time to deal with that stress, right? It was like, how do I manage this?

But then you were able to go do your thing. Yeah, and I think I wish I could get more people to see that. Like, I tell my team a lot, like, you know what you really want? You want a really hard boss. You want a boss that pushes you not too nice.

You are? I'm too nice.

Actually, I could see that for you. Then you got to be hard on them because, let me tell you why. That's how they get better. I mean, you know this, you're an athlete.

I have expectations, but I'm not like a jerk. I'm not like, screw you guys, you.

Know, I'm not like, I have But that doesn't help. I don't think yelling is a sign of weakness in a leader.

I think so.

Except maybe in sports.

I think in sports, even that, it's like you can yell, but it's gotta be a, if you're just yelling to create fear all the time, then it's like, if that's your only tool, you need to develop some other empathy or skill to actually connect and see what each person needs to thrive. Otherwise you're using one thing for everyone.

Yeah, you're a scalpel.

Yeah, exactly.

And lots of things.

And it might work sometimes, but it may not work all the time.

Yeah.

And it's a takes all, and again, the number one skill to learn for anyone, whether you're an employee or an owner, is leadership.

Yeah.

I think.

I think so too.

Because when you have the ability to connect with people and see what they need in this moment and be of service to that individual for the betterment of your goals together, you both win.

Yeah. You know what's fascinating though? How about when you were younger? Like, I did not understand why leadership mattered.

And I didn't either. Didn't make sense.

No, and I kind of dismissed it.

Yeah, you hear about it in high school, you're like, leadership, what?

Who cares? Yeah, who cares? I'm best at my job, I'm doing this, it's about me. And I think as I've gotten older, God is like, back in my day, walk both ways in the snow up uphill. But as I've gotten older, I've realized, man, your ability to talk other people in to coming on board to your vision is So powerful. I mean, think about it. Who's the most powerful man in the world right now? President of the United States, arguably. What is his one skill set? Aligning a bunch of people behind him. Yeah. That's it.

Getting votes.

Yeah, that's it. It's getting a bunch of people behind you. And for them to think that their life will be better with you in charge. Not them.

It's selling a story.

Yeah.

That's really what it is.

Yeah. So it's some mixture of, right? It's like sales. 'Cause you got to sell the story. It's leadership. And then it's like the capability.

You need people to think that you're credible, right? Based on results or based on your experience or whatever it might be. Or that you're going to do a.

Better job than what someone else is doing, right? Yeah. The other thing is people are hard to fool over time, I think. So the longer, that's one of the best things for hiring and partners too, is just longevity. Yes. 'Cause you see a lot of shots, you get to see a lot of shots on goal. 100%. How do they react when it goes.

Bad, when it goes good?

And when they show you, believe them. 100%.

I want people to get your book, Main Street Millionaire by Cody Sanchez, how to make extraordinary wealth by ordinary businesses. A lot of amazing strategies, stories and lessons in here that will give you a different mindset. And I think we're talking about these skills. Leadership is the key. In order to be a great leader, you need to change the way you think about things and approach things. So if you guys want to develop more of a millionaire mindset, make sure you get a copy of the book, get it for a friend, You go to codysanchez.com/book or just it's right there on the homepage.

Right there on the homepage.

Go to Amazon, buy a copy for a friend as well if you know someone struggling, looking to grow. A lot of great strategies in this. Make sure to check it out. I have one final question for you, but before we dive into that question, we'll have it linked up our previous interview as well. I think it's done over a half a million views on YouTube so far. If you want more from Cody, check that out. Follow her on social media as well. Amazing content on her YouTube or podcast. on all over social media. Here's a question that I thought would be perfect for you. I was actually getting a coffee last week and I went to this coffee shop. There was a couple people sitting there, but no one was in line. It was like at three o'clock, right? So after the kind of the rush of the afternoon. And for whatever reason, I like to talk to a lot of people when I meet them. I like to say hi to people at stores. I'm from the Midwest, so I'm just kind of like welcoming most of the time, not every day, Most of the time we're just like, Hey, what are you grateful for? I just kind of have these questions.

And.

I could tell this woman who was behind the desk making coffee was not having a good day. The energy was low. She's probably in her mid-20s, maybe late-20s, I'm not sure. Her name was Phoenix. I don't know her last name, and I won't say where she was working. But I was just asking her a few questions. I was like, what's going on? and she goes, I'm just tired. I'm not enjoying the job. The pay isn't that good. Things aren't going in my favor in life. There's a lot of stress and it feels hard to get out of it. For someone like Phoenix, who's listening or watching right now, who is just at a job they're not enjoying, they're not making the money they want, and they don't feel like things are going their way, what's one thing they could do to start shifting their energy and start seeing the world differently so they can have more of a positive experience rather than a soul-sucking experience.

That's so good. Go make something a little bit better at the job you have right now. Like step number one, if that coffee shop isn't giving you what you want out of it, you're not making enough money, you don't love what you're doing, how can you actually give more to the business, which sounds counterintuitive, but I would come up with every single day, what's a little bit more that you can be doing? Can you be going around and seeing if anybody wants some additional orders? Try to take note how much the business is making each time that you're on shift and then how much it makes after you start making these changes. Create a little list of the things you did to affect your will on the world. Show that, hey, you actually know how a business works and you want it to grow. Small little changes. Maybe you go outside, you're starting to say hi, you hand out a little coffee sample to people. Think like an owner. Have an ownership mindset. Because when you have an ownership mindset, that transfers to ownership eventually. Then the second that you do that, I want you to go to the owner of the business and I want you to tell them just a little brief, Hey, here's the stuff I've been doing at the business. No ask. I've been doing this little list of things. It seems to be working. Here's some of the experiments I've been trying. First of all, they're gonna be shocked. Nobody's gonna ever have done something like that to them. You are already now the 1%. Second step, you do it for a few more weeks. At the end of a few weeks, you go, Hey, I've been doing these extra things. I'd love to make some additional money here. Is that possible? Can you show me like what a career progression looks like here for me to move to the next step, for me to make additional money? Here's the thing. If they say, nothing, this is Starbucks, we don't hire this way, you're stuck here, then that's a bad company and you need to start looking elsewhere. And you need to, as you're looking for your next thing, not just have a resume, but have some case studies. Here's what I did in my last business that they didn't ask me to do. Here's how I realized that I could provide positive value. I can promise you one thing only, that capability is so rare and desire is even more rare. And so if you can show those two things in the world, you will go from having an owner's mindset to an owner one day.

Hashtag CatioLife. There we go. Cody Sanchez, make sure you guys check out the book. Follow for more. Appreciate it, Cody. Thanks.

Thanks for having me.

Your frequency, my energy, is what I frequently see, you know? And that was, I was excited. My boys came in here. I wanted them to meet you because you're one of those people where I'm like, Louis is such a good and positive, like, you need to feel that energy. So it's, I'm never surprised when I meet somebody that's successful that's positive because.

Of course they are. Because look at the way.