"Do THIS For 9 Days To MANIFEST Your Dream Life In 2023" | Lewis Howes

So our imagination and Seneca said it best, we suffer twice, one in reality and one in imagination. We suffer twice. What you're now doing is you're creating a story of what's going to happen.

And that story... You talked about the fear of fear and how you had to learn to let go of your fear of fear. What does that actually mean, letting go of the fear of fear?

Yeah. So I talk about how We fear the wrong things. What do we fear? So most of us are fearful of how our friends are reacting, what's happening on social media, and what's the random bit of news that we heard? None of it is fact-based. That's one of the biggest issues that we have. It's worry-based. It's worry-based and it's also imagination-based. So we become fiction writers. We've all watched too many movies. Now we start writing these beautiful movies in our head. We're not beautiful, scary movies in our head of what may happen. So our imagination, and Seneca said it best, We suffer twice, one in reality and one in imagination. We suffer twice. And this is the book.

What actually happens to us?

Totally.

Within the story we continue to tell our story.

Totally. Now there's this incredible study in the book that I have to talk about. So they took monks and they took non-monks and they competed against each other. They competed against each other literally. So they put this plate where you experience heat. And so what happens is the non-monks touch this plate. Now this plate heats up gradually. Softly and then at one point it gets really hot for 10 seconds and it cools down and so what happened is that when the non-monks touched it the anxiety and pressure and stress in their brain just triggered straight away even though it wasn't that hot.

It wasn't hot.

It was heating but it wasn't hot to do anything major to you but the anxiety and stress in imagination or in anticipation went through the roof in the non-monks. Now this is what's fascinating when the monks touched it They showed that it didn't feel anything as it rose, but as it got to its highest, they felt physical pain, but they showed no trigger of emotional pain because they did not assign any emotional element to that pain. So my point with that is you can look at the news right now and you can get scared straight away and get in complete freeze mode, feeling stuck, paralyzed, whatever it is, because what you're now doing is you're creating a story of what's going to happen.

And that story-- and you can cause sickness in yourself.

You can cause sickness in yourself.

Just by the story. Not actually-- the reality. The facts of the disease hitting you or something happening physically to you.

Totally. And that story, again, can be used positively. So your story may actually be true. But if it's gonna be true, now you can prepare. And that shifts you away from being scared because now you're preparing. And so the real-- you- can be.

Confident because you prepared.

Exactly. And so we should be shifting our fear energy into preparation energy. Because what fear does is it keeps you locked there, right? We just feel stuck. I'll give you an example. When you were preparing for big games, when you used to play in the NFL, right? And you're playing American football against some of the biggest athletes in the world, it's like you can either sit there and be scared that you're gonna play this game on the weekend, or you can prepare. And your confidence is in the preparation. So when people go, how do I feel confident right now?

Are you preparing?

Are you putting the reps?

Are you putting the reps? Are you building your immunity? Are you taking your vitamins? Are you drinking lots of water? Are you drinking lots of water? Are you taking the steps that are needed to prepare for whatever's coming?

You will feel more confident that way. So how do we learn to let go of the fear of fear though? How do we say, okay, we're only gonna allow it to hurt us when it actually hurts us and not the fear of it. Is there a process, is there just an awareness of this that when you're in anxiety, worry, stress, fear, you just breathe and meditate then what's the process of letting go of the fear of fear?

Yeah, so meditation mindfulness powerful tools, but I'd say the process and I want to be as tactical and strategic as we can, the thing is to get really close to that fear. So what we usually do- Embrace it. Embrace it, get close to it, get intimate with it.

We- Become the bat. Sit in the bat cage.

Literally, literally, yeah.

And embrace the fear.

Totally, we run away from fear, we like to run away and go, oh it's not coming with me, or what we do is, We hear one thing and we define the whole understanding of our fear based on that one thing. So it's like someone, and I'll give you a normal example in a normal life scenario. Someone says to you in the office, you know that they're gonna cut a few people. And you don't even check, you don't even know. Is it real? And now you just made it real and now you're running with it and you're trying to run away from it. So you're trying to avoid conversations with your boss, you're trying to avoid any conflict, you're trying to, you know, you're just trying to avoid it. And so actually what you need to do is go, okay, let me actually discover that fear. Let me go intimate with that fear. Let me ask myself, where's that fear coming from? What am I really scared of? What am I really scared of? Am I really scared of losing my job? Am I scared of not having any money? What am I really scared of? And when you get to the root, and I call it the why ladder in the book, so it's asking yourself, what am I scared of? And then go, why am I scared of this? Why am I scared of this? Why am I scared of this? And when you can't ask why any longer, you've got to the answer and that's what you have to deal with. Most of us are not dealing with what we're actually scared of. So that's how you let go. You let go by keep asking yourself. So I'll give an example of mine. Like if I heard that or if you hear that in your office that people are getting cut, it's like you just get scared and panicked. But the question is, why am I scared of that? Am I scared of that because I haven't been working hard for six months? Am I scared of that because I've been skipping meetings? Am I scared of that because I know my boss will probably fire me first? Or am I scared because I've been performing really well and I'm expecting a promotion? Knowing which one it is sets you up to build the path forward. Not knowing that just puts you in this panic frenzy. I think also like doing all the.

Things you talked about which is discovering within yourself, being aware of it, but then also just have the conversation. 100%. Run it with your manager, your boss and say, Hey listen, I heard some rumors that there might be some cuts and I want to let you know that I'm 100% committed to doing whatever.

It takes to help this company grow.

Yes, 100%. I believe in this mission more than anything. Here's what I've been doing the last three months and here's what I want to continue to do.

Is there anything else I can do?

Totally. Show them the why you shouldn't get cut.

Exactly. And that's, you know how to approach that discussion when you know which side you're on, what your fear is.

I remember as a freshman playing football, I was playing Division II football in Minnesota. They usually red shirt all the freshmen. And I went into this with a big ego thinking like, I'm gonna start, or at least I want to play, right? so I went into it with an ego in the first place, but I also, which wasn't good, but I also went into it with some things that were good from this conversation. I tell the coach straight up, like, I know you don't play freshman, but my intention is to play. What is it going to take for me in order to get on the field? You know, do I need to get here early? Do I need to stay late? Can I sit here in the office with you after the before practice and go over game film, whatever it was? and he was, he told me, yeah, I need you to come in the office every single day and watch game film with me. I need to be with your receiver coach every single day beforehand and doing reps. And I just did it. And I eventually started to play my freshman year. I didn't start in the beginning, but I started to start at the end. And that, for me, it was powerful. It's like I dressed it because I wanted to play, and I was afraid I wasn't going to play at all and just waste a year of practicing like every other freshman would do there. That was my ego going, like, I need to play. But I was also like, I'll do whatever it takes, and I'll practice, and I'll confront it with conversation and say.

This is my intention.

This my vision and I'm going to do whatever it takes for you. And so I think that in a perfect example, if you're in a workplace, you've got to be confronting it and be proactive in your company.

Correct. And that's a perfect example of getting close to fear rather than running away from it. Spot on, man.

For me, my whole mission in the last year and moving forward, the next projects I'm working on are all about belief in yourself. I believe self-doubt is the killer of dreams and I believe that And you have this amazing graph in here. It's about ego versus self-esteem. How do we build self-belief, self-esteem, self-confidence while also not allowing our ego to be so big and think we can just do anything? How do we balance ego and self-confidence so they don't hurt each other?

Yeah, absolutely. And what we experience most of the time is extremes. So the two extremes that most of us experience are either I have to think I'm the best. I'm the best in the world. I can crush anyone. I'm like gonna show everyone what I'm like. Or most of us experience the other extreme which is I'm the worst. I'm the stupidest, I'm the dumbest, I'm the most worthless, I'm the biggest loser. Notice how that's both ego.

Really?

Yes.

Why is it negative?

So, the ego wants to be the best of the best or the ego wants to be the worst of the worst. The ego won't accept being in the middle.

Really?

The ego wants to feel the Deepest sense of being the lowest. And that's why victim mentality is actually a Subsequence of ego.

Really?

Yeah, that's how it's explained the Bhagavad Gita because the point is that you can't deal with just being bad. You have to be the worst.

My pain is the worst. I think Jada talked about this on your podcast where she was like, you know, I had to tell people why my hurt was more painful than their hurt and they could never understand how bad it was.

Exactly. Exactly.

That's ego.

Yeah, that's ego as well.

So you see these two sides of ego keeping us locked away. And so the only way to get with that and the only way to balance it and bring it all into one is genuine self honesty. Honesty is the best place to be. And the best thing about honesty is I'm really good at this, I'm really average at that, and I'm really bad at that. And the challenge we have with that is most of us have no idea. We just have zero self awareness about what we are good at, what we are bad at, and what we're average at. So we think, I'm pretty average at everything. I'm pretty good at everything. And when I hear those answers, I'm like, simple things, just go and talk.

To people that know you.

Yeah, what am I great at? Ask them, what's my superpower? What do I do differently? What do you think I do that is different than no one else does? And guess what? I guarantee you, if you ask a colleague, if you ask a friend, if you ask a family member, if you ask a people- They'll say different things. They'll say different things. But you get to learn about yourself. So real confidence comes from knowing your strengths, and going all in on them. Your confidence does not come from just standing up the right way or just saying the right stuff to yourself.

I speak the language all the time.

Yeah, and that's important. I'm a big believer in all of that, but what I'm saying is that that doesn't build real confidence. Real confidence comes from thinking, I'm really good at this, I know I can do this, and I love doing it. And really, this is the most important bit. Confidence comes from serving other people. When you see the impact you have on others, and this is the biggest issue, the reason why we have such low self-esteem, today in the world is because people are not serving others. So they don't see the profound impact they have on others. When you put out a video or a podcast and people tag you on Instagram and they say, Louis, you stopped me from depression or you helped me out of a divorce. Or people, when they watch my content, they'll be like, that stopped me from committing suicide or whatever it is. When you see that, you get such a deep sense of self-worth that you matter. And guess what? Everyone matters. Whether you matter to one people or.

One million people, everyone matters.

But if you see your impact in someone's life, you will feel such a deep sense of self-worth. And so whether you're serving at a giving out free food or whether you're serving at a local charity place or whether you're serving through your work, serve, serve, serve. Because when you take that step, you get a boost of self-esteem.

But why do so many of us live in fear and desire mode as opposed to duty and love mode? Why is that? Like, why are we still focused on It's conditioned.

It's conditioned, right? I've said this before that we're wired for generosity, but we're educated for greed. I think I just said it to you two years ago when I was on the podcast. It's like, and when I said that in a statement, it was, yeah, and so true. We're wired for generosity, but we're educated for greed. Because what happens is when the kids, you see kids, you wanna share. Go out their way, they wanna share. You wanna buy a candy bar, whatever. It's all right, yeah. And then as we get older, we're told that there's less. And this is what the key is. As we get older, we're told there are finite numbers of how many kids get made on to the basketball or baseball team. We're told there's a finite number of college spaces. We're told there's a finite number of how many tickets there are. We're told there's a finite number of.

People that are successful.

Guess what? In the theater of happiness, there are infinite and unlimited seats. and there is a seat with your name on it. That's okay. There is a seat with your name on it in the theater of dreams, in the theater of happiness, but you think that because you think that there are only 100 people allowed in, that if someone else makes it before you, that you don't get in, and guess what? Is there a cap on how many billionaires there are in the world? No. No, is there a cap on how many millionaires there are in the world?

No.

No, is there a cap on how many happy people there are in the world?

No.

And that's why I really am encouraging Forbes.

I want Forbes, forget printing a rich.

List, print a happy list, print a service list.

We should do that. We should do that.

Serving the most in the world.

Wow. That'll be competition based.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

I gave more than you get.

And that's why it should be service based on time, energy and money. Because we should start showing how much time people give, how much energy people give. Mother Teresa, I don't think she gave.

Any money to her charities.

But you get a lot of time and energy. You look at all the people who made a change in the world, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, like, They may not.

Have given a lot of money to stuff.

They gave time and energy.

You don't have to give resources, but your resourcefulness, your love, your time, your focus, your attention, your compassion. Love that. You know, resourcefulness of the heart, not of the wallet. I think it's- Love that. And you don't need to have a lot of money to make a big impact.

You don't. And this is the training. See, we've been educated for greed because we've been told everything's limited. There's limited number of this, limited number of this, number... And every time you play in numbers, and I think it was Bob Marley who said it, but every time you play in numbers, you'd always be dissatisfied. Because guess what? Someone's always gonna have more. Someone's always gonna have more. I was speaking to a friend recently, and this friend was telling me that he bought a home, which is very expensive. Yes. Very, very expensive. And he went to a party at someone else's house, and he told me that when he was getting a tour of this party, He found out that this person had a painting on his wall which cost the amount his house cost. And so he was joking, he was like that guy's painting in the house. He's got my house on his wall. And that just puts things into perspective. And you think about that, and then you look at someone like Jeff Bezos and you think, oh well he's the richest man in the world, but does he have the most fame? No, he doesn't. Does he have the most beauty? Subjective decision. Does he have the most strength or power? Maybe not. And so no one has the most of everything. So when you measure yourself by numbers, you'll always be second, third, fourth, fifth in something.

And I think by measuring yourself, by needing to have the most of anything is probably a recipe for unhappiness. I'm like, well, okay, I'm not gonna have the most of anything, but I'm gonna have the most money. You're still gonna be unhappy.

Totally.

Even if you have the most of something doesn't mean you're gonna be happy.

Totally. I think it was Albert Einstein who said it best that not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted. And I love that because it removes this belief that things are finite and limited and then not. If you want to be happy and successful, no matter that there are 700,000 podcasts, if that is your dharma, if that's your calling, if that's your purpose, Like, you can do that. There's no cap on how many successful soccer players that can exist at the same time.

Or how many books are out in the world.

There's no cap. There's no one stopping you, and that's the mindset that we're educated.

So can you share what that means to hear in between the lines through prayer, meditation, mindfulness, and kind of what this all means? How can we understand this? There's a lot of noise about it, but what does it really mean?

Yeah, beautiful. First of all, I'm glad to be back, man. The School of Greatness is- Excited, man. A special place. And the fact that this is, so everyone who's listening or watching, this is how you test whether your friend really knows you.

Louis just told my life story in.

30 seconds, which means that we're real friends. Louis was able to summarize everything that I've been through in the last 10 years in 30 seconds. I appreciate you, man. Of course, man.

And I'm really happy to be back.

And yeah, I think Yeah, let's talk about the term and let's talk about that specific answer. So when I hear the word mindfulness, to me, what it really means is intentionality. What I mean by that is, are you crafting, designing, and intentionally creating your life, or are you just coasting in the passenger seat of your life, which is just dragging you and driving you wherever it's taking you? And so it's the difference between being the driver or being in the passenger seat. And so to me, living intentionally is what allows you to live a life of by design. And so I'll give you an example of what mindfulness can look like. There's something in the book that I talk about called the three S's, which are sights, sense, and sounds. Now, if you think about that, we're exposed to sights, sense, and sounds every single day.

Yeah.

Every single day. But how many of us have crafted those to be sight, sense, and sounds that we want in our life? So this is what I realized when we were monks, one of the most important things was, what was the first thing you saw, the sight, when you woke up?

And right now, most people are probably seeing their screen.

Yeah, I think 80% of people look at their screens first thing in the morning and the last thing at the night. So you're seeing your screen first thing in the morning, but what are you really seeing? You're seeing everyone else's priorities. you're seeing everyone else's issues and challenges, you're seeing everyone else's messages to you, which means you're already starting your day off reactively. But what if you started your morning looking at a painting that inspired you, or a picture of a loved one that brought joy in your heart, or your favorite quote by Lewis or by anyone else that when you read that in the morning, you were like, oh yeah, I feel in charge today to make a difference in the world. So imagine the first thing you saw in the morning was something inspiring. How much would your day change? That's mindfulness. Mindfulness is being intentional and mindful about what you are exposing yourself to. Let's talk about sounds next. So sounds were something that I started to study actually much later from a modern life perspective. But when we were monks, we would wake up to birds, we would wake up to water, we'd wake up to gongs or cymbals. Chants. Exactly. Which are all beautiful sounds. Now, the crazy thing is all of us wake up to something called an alarm. Now, I don't know why anyone would want to wake up to an alarm. Why would you want to wake up alarmed? It means now your system is alarming. Like, why would you want to do that? Why would you want to wake up in shock? In a state of, like, a jolt? I don't think that's a positive way to wake up. So changing the sound that you wake up to. Now, I'm not saying that everyone can wake up to nature sounds. Maybe you're one of those people who just hit the snooze button again. But what if you woke up to a sound or a song that brought you joy? Now, when I lived in New York for two years between 2016 and 2018, I started to feel quite exhausted by the end of the day and I was really looking into like, why is it that I feel tired? And I started to realize I came across this term called cognitive load. And what it means is that a lot of the sounds that you hear in New York City are sounds that are insignificant For your mind to process, drilling, construction work, taxis honking, driving, cars screeching, scratching, people yelling at each other. People yelling at each other on the streets. All of that sound is called cognitive load, where your brain is now trying to make sense of meaningless sound.

It's also just like, should I be afraid? This is a loud sound. Is my brain going to fight or flight? Like, I need to protect myself. So you're always being alarmed.

Yeah, exactly. And you hear sirens.

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Now, when you hear sirens, sirens have an emotional trigger and they have an emotional response to them. So think about your day. Think about when you come home from work. Well, now you're working from home. What sound do you want to hear when you're working? What sound do you want to hear at the end of the day? When you sound design your life, that's called mindfulness. That's being intentional. And then finally sent. Scent is such a powerful sense that we're not even aware. How many of you, when you smell your favorite food, can't already wait to eat it? Like, you can almost taste it. You can taste it already without, just through scent. Why is it that every time you walk into... Yeah, I think pizza has one of the best scents.

Well, your wife, Roddy's got some amazing food. That was amazing scent. When I walked in the kitchen last week, I was like, It was amazing.

That was for you, that was for you, that was for you. That was a good meal. That was a really good meal. She really appreciated that you loved to eat too. She was happy, her heart was full.

Exactly. Bring a former jock into your house and you'll clear all the food out.

She was like, I've never seen someone eat that much. I was like, you know, this like big American dude. I was like, Lewis is like, you know, he can eat. And so, no, it was great. She was so happy that you appreciated it so much. She really appreciated that.

But the scent is important in your life.

When you walk into a massage spa, it's the scent, the eucalyptus, the lavender, the sandalwood, it calms- It puts you.

In a peaceful state.

Dude, scent puts you in zen without trying. And so mindfulness is intentionally creating a life that makes you feel what you want to feel without having to just create the feeling from inside. You may say, Jay, you know, I really struggle. trying to be positive, I struggle trying to deal with anxiety, I struggle trying to be focused. Your sight, sense and sounds can help you do that. And you start creating an environment where you naturally feel that. Like today when I walked into your studio, I saw your books, I saw these motivational quotes, I saw a boxing glove and it's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm in a uplifting environment. Right? So you already get triggered.

Exactly. Yeah, I think, A friend of mine mentioned one time on the podcast, Chris Lee said, you, want to create an environment like a rainforest where things can thrive and grow, as opposed to having an environment like a desert where things go to die.

That's beautiful.

And if you have sights, scents and sounds that are like a desert for your life or your heart, then it's going to be hard to grow those things from your heart. But if you create an environment of a rainforest where things can grow, water, nature, you know, cool air, things like that, then you can really start to cultivate that growth. You mentioned about creating and designing your life. How much of the world do you think we receive by being here? And how much of the world do we create ourselves?

Yeah, that's a beautiful question. It's a complete dynamic dance between what the Vedic tradition would call fate and free will. So fate is what is already created for you and a good example would be the place you were born, the type of family you grew up in, the socioeconomic background you had. It was already there when you walked into the world. But within that, you had choices where your free will came about. You had the choice to either do what everyone in your neighborhood did or to do something different. You had the choice to have a relationship with a particular person or not. So what happens is that we're constantly creating new spaces from which we have another choice. And so you kind of see as this dynamic dance between, okay, now I'm in this situation and now what is my choice in this situation? So I would say, I'm not saying it's equal. I'm saying it's a dynamic balance and a switching process where you're constantly creating a new level and then now in that level you have a next choice.

Because we didn't have the choice to be created here. We were here and that wasn't our choice. Now everything after that is our choice, right?

Yeah, and there are some, obviously there are some traditions and I'm a big diver into reincarnation and past lives. So according to the beliefs of reincarnation and past lives, you have at some point made a choice to be here. But taking it more simplistically, the truth is that when you're brought into a situation, the best analogy that I've heard and it's been told for years is of A father is an alcoholic. One of the sons that he has decides to become an alcoholic because his father's an alcoholic. The other son decides to never drink alcohol because his father's an alcoholic. So they were exposed to the same situation and same scenario.

Same environment.

Same environment. But they both made different choices based on their experience. And that's the choice element. That's the element that we should be trying to empower in our lives. Because we can constantly say, I'm limited by my environment or I've been restricted by my environment. And hey, it's true. There are so many of us that have been limited and restricted. But by now you repeating that, you are going to repeat that restriction in your life.

How much of a positive environment supports us in our growth or holds us back? There are some people who have the perfect family situation, resources, beautiful backyards in nature who are lazy. And there are others who have, you know, divorced parents, abusive parents, abusive friends, an environment of a desert.

Yeah.

And they figure out a way to thrive.

Totally.

How much importance does our environment play in our overall success?

If you look at the examples that you just shared and you really analyze life, you'd see very little because you see people craft their own life. So a good example for me is that when I came back from living in the ashram and there were other people who may have been monks who'd also left the path and I came back to a not financially successful or supportive family. So my family doesn't have abundant wealth and couldn't necessarily have taken care of me or paid for me forever. and I had to figure out my own life. And that to me was a great sense of impetus and incentive to go and figure it out and learn new skills and network and meet people. And I saw other friends whose parents had like a property portfolio with like 10 properties ready to hand them over. They had a BMW the second that they came out, whatever, you know, from their own life. Or I even have friends that had all of that and didn't become monks and didn't even find careers. so I've also got friends that I went to school with that today don't even have careers, even though their parents were really well established.

Right.

Which has all of these examples have continued me to believe that we truly have influence in our more than our environment. Our environment affects us for sure. It plants seeds and weeds into our life, but there is still a choice. And I think even if you feel there isn't a choice, Simply by accepting that there is, it means you have a chance to get out of there. And I think that's what- Because if.

You don't accept that there is, then you're just gonna stay stuck.

Correct. There have been so many times in my life and there's a beautiful quote from Edison. I don't think I said this last time, but if I did, it's worth repeating. He said that when you believe you've exhausted all options, remember this, you haven't. And the reason why I love that is your mind continuously feels stuck when it's tried the obvious. And that's why a lot of creativity and focus studies say that the first 10 ideas that come to your mind are never the most interesting. It's when you get into the 11th idea that you start breaking the pattern. And so if someone asks you, oh, what's your best business idea? Your first 10 ideas are probably not that innovative. And so the mind constantly gets stuck on that train. And you've got to keep reminding yourself that there is another door. There could be another pathway. I was thinking about a piece of advice that so One of my closest spiritual mentors who was in London, I knew him since I was probably like 12 and properly since I was 18. He passed away this year from stage four brain cancer. And he'd had brain cancer for about, I think like three, three, four years now. And so I hadn't really had a real interaction with him for the past few years because every time I saw him, he wasn't fully functioning in his short-term memory. His long-term memory was there, but his short-term memory wasn't. and I remember speaking to him probably about seven, eight years ago and asking him the question. I said to him, you know, I've got so many ideas. There's so many things I could do. Where do I start? And he said this beautiful thing to me. He said, you, know what? Your role should be to open up every door possible. And he said, let the world close the doors you're not meant to walk through and walk through the ones that remain open. And what I realize is most of us are just not opening up enough doors because we think we only have the option of two doors. We look at life as binary. Zero and one, zero and one, right?

It's just this or that.

A or B, this or that. And I mean, I think you'd say this too about you and every guest you ever had on. I don't think life is ever this or that. It's like this, that and that, and maybe that and that. And there's always a gap.

Of course. The challenge that people have that I've sensed a lot is the fear of criticism when you go after something that you weren't supposed to do or that people don't think you're supposed to do. Why do so many people fear criticism from peers, family, friends, the media? Why is that such a big fear? And how do we overcome criticism from others?

Psychologically, we feel a sense of safety and security when we think people agree with us. That is just psychologically true that we would rather avoid conflict and sit in a space where we agree, and therefore we have something called confirmation bias and the echo chamber, where we keep surrounding ourselves with thoughts and ideas that are similar and reaffirm our beliefs. Now, I think that you can have that and at the same time entertain ideas that you're not sure about yet. And so one of my favorite examples was MIT did this study where they asked people which person was more creative and innovative. and they showed two charts. One chart was employee A and the other chart was employee B. The chart for employee A, all of the people they knew, knew each other and knew them back. So it was almost like a closed loop. And employee B, they knew lots of people who didn't know each other. And they found that people who have more people in their network who don't know each other are more likely to be creative and productive.

Really? Why is that?

Because they expose you to opposing ideas and they may counteract how you think. So one of my favorite examples of this is a conversation between Mark Zuckerberg and one of his mentors. So Mark Zuckerberg told this story at the Facebook headquarters a few years back. I wasn't there. I've seen it on video. I'm sure it's available. And he talks about how when he was struggling with the direction of Facebook in 2009, he approached his mentor and his mentor happened to be Steve Jobs. Wow.

Pretty cool.

Wow.

Pretty cool. I wish. Really cool. It's so cool, man. And so anyway, so Mark Zuckerberg goes to Steve Jobs and he says, I'm.

Struggling with the direction of Facebook.

Remember at that time Facebook was five years old. There was no fan pages, I don't think. I don't think it was, there was no creators. I don't think there were fan pages. It was very much used by university students at that stage. Like I think it was mainly like Ivy League and college kids. and I don't even think it was international in a massive way, very early days, and now we can't even think of that. But 2009, I mean, you just about had the iPhone and just about had Instagram and YouTube. So he went up to Steve Jobs and he said, I'm struggling with the direction of Facebook. What do I do? Now, Steve Jobs at that time obviously was already the founder of one of the biggest brands on the planet, and obviously the brand still is. He had access to investors, he had access to business coaches. I'm sure he had access to life coaches, he had access to- Health experts.

Health experts.

He had access to anything. Like, I don't think there was anyone- Scientists, whatever. Scientists, PhDs. I don't think there's anyone in the world who Steve Jobs couldn't have called up at the time. And Steve Jobs said something amazing. He said, you, know what, Mark? I think you should go and live in an ashram in India.

He did not.

He did. Oh, wow. It's a true story. He goes, and when you go to live in the ashram in India, That's where if you spend some time there, that's where you'll find your answer. Shut up. And Mark did it. No way.

Went to the Ashram.

It's a true story. For how long? I believe he was there for, I've seen two online, I've seen two versions of the exact time he was there. I've seen some people say it was a couple of days or a week or some people said it's a month. So I think it's hazy how much time he actually spent there. But he went. And he says that based on that experience, that's where he found the direction of Facebook, to be connecting people. Now, the reason why I love that story is because it's the unobvious, alternative, random connection. And when Harvard did a study of 3,000 executives, they looked at and asked them, what's the number one skill for being a good leader? And a lot of people would say communication, a lot of people would say vision, strategy, humility. And the number one answer that they got from 3,000 executives was the one word which is called associating. And what that means is the ability to spot patterns where everyone else doesn't see them. And that's the connect that real leaders can spot patterns and connections in anomalies. So most people be like, what is an ashram got to do with a tech platform?

Right.

But that is where you expand your mind to find answers that you never expected.

How important is creating alone time.

With.

Noises, people, busy work to allow your mind to expand? Is that the only time in that silence, I think you mentioned it, silence to hear in between the lines?

Yeah.

Is that where we start to hear what we're supposed to be creating, where we're supposed to be heading, our mission?

That's, yeah, I'm really glad you brought that back. I wanted to get back to that. When we talk about, there's a beautiful statement by David Lynch, who's movie producer and deep meditator, and he says that prayer is how you talk to God and meditation is how God talks to you. And whether you believe in God or the universe or spirit or divine, whatever it means, the point is that there is a dialogue and a conversation.

So, prayer is like you're speaking, you're saying, Here's what I want.

Here's how I feel.

Help me.

Help me.

And meditation is more receiving.

Receiving, yeah. And so I love that statement because I think it makes it very clear that we have to have a dialogue with the universe. We have to have a dialogue with people in our lives. We have to have a dialogue and there's both giving and receiving. So when I talk about hearing in between the lines, the best example I can give you, Louis, is let's take a look at you and your relationship and mine and my wife's relationship. One of us is always traveling. So you travel, your partner travels, I travel, my wife travels, sometimes we're missing each other. Imagine you've got really busy and hectic. Do you think, and anyone listening or watching, you can ask the same question, if you were really busy and hectic and stressed out, do you think your partner feels comfortable to tell you how they feel and get your attention?

If I'm busy, stressed out, overwhelmed, will my partner tell me how I feel about themselves or about- yeah, do you.

Think they would feel confident and to be like, Louis, I need to tell.

You something really important.

I don't think they would.

They wouldn't. They really wouldn't because- They don't wanna.

Stress you out more.

They don't wanna stress you out more. They're not present, all these things. Exactly, exactly that. And so what happens is when you're still, your mind and body actually get to speak to you and give you signals of how they feel. And so when you're still, that's when you notice that ache in your foot that you haven't noticed for a month. Sometimes when you slow down, that's when you get sick. because your body wasn't allowing itself to be sick because you were pushing it to get through stuff. And so just like your partners can't communicate with you until you slow down, your body and mind can't communicate with you until you still. And so there's a beautiful Buddhist teaching that says what movement does for the body, stillness does for the mind. And so when we find that space, stillness and solitude, you really are able to hear your deepest desires and challenges, your physical pains and areas of growth. It's one of the reasons why when people meditate, they feel sleepy afterwards and they think they're doing it wrong, but actually they're doing it right. Meditation just told you you needed more sleep. You needed rest. Yeah, meditation was just a signal. So sometimes when I meditate with people that I'm coaching, they're like, pass out. Some of them will be like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry Jay, I'm just feeling so tired. And I'm like, no, no, then sleep and rest. Yeah, that's what your body's telling you because you finally listened. And some people are like, oh Jay, I feel so energized. And I'm like, yeah, because you allowed yourself to be in line with your.

Body and now your body's saying that you feel energized. And that's great, you've got that energy. Go work out, go build something. Or you've cleared out those negative thoughts.

Or you've let go of those distractions or that resentment. And so you're not feeling this weight so you feel lighter. Correct, and so that stillness, and silence is one of my favorite ways for you to actually build that relationship with hearing your inner voice.

Is there too much silence? Like if you say, okay, five hours a day, is there a tipping point when you're like, okay, I think you do two hours every morning, but a lot of people say, well, I've only got 20 minutes maybe. Is five hours too much? Is an hour, you know, what is the maximum or minimum or a sweet spot you think for people to be silent every day?

Yeah.

To live a great life.

I think 20 minutes is a great starting point. Yeah. Because 20 minutes is significant enough time for your mind to switch off. So we hear that studies showed that we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day. And a lot of them are negative. 80% are negative. I'm guessing a lot of them are repeated. And so if you're only gonna say I'm gonna do five minutes, it just takes five minutes to switch off. Like it takes five minutes to just overcome that noise. And so I'd say that 20 minutes is a good amount of time. And hey, you're not trying, and I think this is the challenge with meditation mindfulness, you're not trying to empty your mind. You're just trying to be present with it and actually listen to it and experience it.

Why did you decide that you wanted to be a monk in the first place and how old were you when you did that?

Absolutely. So the story starts with something I've been saying a lot called youd can't be what you can't see. So I didn't grow up wanting to be a monk. What did you grow up wanting to be? Yeah, I grew up wanting to be a mix of an art director, like for a big magazine or online company, because I loved design, I loved graphics, I loved video and art when I was growing up. I loved philosophy and I loved economics. Those are like my three favorite subjects: art, design, philosophy and economics. And I always thought I'd be something boring like an investment banker, because I often say when you, when you grow up in a Asian or Indian family, and if you have any Asian or Indian followers, they'll agree. I had three options. I could either be a doctor, a lawyer or a failure. Right. Those are, like, my three options. And so that's what I was going to be. I couldn't be any of those, so I was going to be an investment banker or a strategy consultant. Because I was like, I'm rubbish at medicine. You know, I'm not very good at law. So I was kind of going down that route because you can't be what you can't see. and growing up as a young Asian person in London, you don't see many people in the media, you don't see many Asians in sport, you don't see many Asians in anything apart from accountancy, business, medicine and law. That's literally what you see. And then I was 18, I'm at university, I'm studying my undergraduate, which is in behavioural science.

In London.

In London. So I've always been fascinated by why people do what they do, always fascinated fascinated by why we make decisions, why we lie, why people cheat, why people pretend to be someone they're not. Like all those questions always fascinated me, but just from an intellectual point of view rather than helping people unpack it. So I was studying that and then at my university we'd have some of the best entrepreneurs coming to speak every week.

In London, right?

In London, in London. I cast business school. So there's people coming in every single week And then I found out that the week later after been watching entrepreneur after entrepreneur, loved hearing from CEOs, their success stories. I was a huge fan of rags to riches stories. Not the riches because of wealth, but just that whole thing of people going from nothing to something. That fascinated me.

So I used to read autobiographies.

I thought I hated reading until I was 14, until someone handed me an autobiography. I think I remembered reading the Rock's autobiography back then too. because I used to watch wrestling. But anyway, so I'm fascinated by people who go from nothing to something. And then a monk's invited to speak at my University, and I actually get forced along. I'm actually not that interested. I'm like, what's a monk gonna teach me? Who cares? Like, never seen a monk in my life. Don't really know what they do. I get forced by one of my mates to come along. I basically have nothing better to do that night. I turn up. I'm hearing this monk speak, and he captivated me like the most beautiful woman in the world, right? I was just completely enthralled and addicted to everything he said. I was hanging off every word. And there was a voice in my head that was just like, who is this guy? And then I find out that he'd given up jobs at Google and Microsoft to become a monk.

And I'm thinking, wait a minute, who does that?

You know, everyone that I've ever met.

That'S all they've been chasing.

And all the stories that I'd followed in life were people who went from nothing to something. And here was a guy who had something, but had traded it to have nothing, but looked like the happiest person I'd ever met. So it was like the most paradoxical moment of my life, like the most ironic thing that could have happened. Anyway, so I go and speak to him afterwards. I. I love networking with speakers. I'd always approach people after. their speech if I was moved, I went up to him and I just said, you, know what? Everything you said just resonated with me. And there was one thing that he said that stood above everything. And he spoke about this principle about plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit. Plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit. What he meant was selfless service, giving without expecting, using everything you have, doing something for nothing, just being able to give. And for some reason, that 18 year old me, hearing about selflessness, that word kind of just.

I don't know what it was.

It was just one of those moments that just. It penetrated through. Through every desire I had. And service and selflessness became, like, my biggest aspiration in, like, a moment. And I started talking to him, so I started interning. with him in India as a monk every summer holidays. So I finished my freshman this year. Yeah, yeah, basically 18, I guess that's what you call it. When you just started out. Yeah, I got it.

So after the first year you had a summer break. Correct. To go to India to be with him for a month, two months?

Yeah, a month or two months. However, so I'd get a summer holiday, I'd spend half of it working in a big corporate firm because I thought that's what I was gonna do. And I'd spend the rest of it and Christmas holidays that we get in London. I'd spend it in India just kind of shadowing him. And I describe it like that. I was literally interning to be a monk where you live like a monk, you practice monk principles, you follow what they do on a daily basis and you get to experience what it's like. And I'd work at like the big, I'd work for some of these biggest companies in the world and then I'd go to living as monk, like polar opposites. We'd be out at night drinking, networking.

After this work, right?

The stuff you do. bars, clubs, Etc. And then, like, for the rest of the months, I'm, like, meditating and spending time with these enlightened beings.

And.

And I can honestly say, having tested and experimented both, I fell in love with that lifestyle more. So having everything on that side versus having nothing on that side, I. I fell in love with having nothing. And so it was like a perfect a and b test. You know, it was like the perfect process. So I always say you can't be what can't see. I wouldn't have become a monk if I didn't see a monk.

That.

That's. That's my journey to why it started. Why did I decide to become a monk? Because I got to meet a monk, which exploded the horizons and possibilities of what I could be. First of all, I became a monk because I got fascinated by giving everything you have in the service of others. At a very early age, I just got fascinated by that principle. And the third thing was I fell in love with the lifestyle of a a monk more than I did of a modern person.

Why did you fall in love with that?

I fell in love with it because I got so fixated on the fact that what if you could spend your whole life just helping people?

Like, what if that's all you did?

What if you had to learn, grow, create just to make a difference in people's lives?

Yeah.

And you didn't need anything back and you didn't want anything back. And the only the example I'd seen of that at that age was the monk. So that was the only kind of test I had, right? That's the only person I'd experienced.

So you haven't met someone who started a non-profit or something like that?

I had, but I had met people.

Who'Ve done NGOs and not for profits, but I always found that they were still looking for funding. And I didn't necessarily fall in love with their character. And I think that's a big part of it. When I was with the monks, I felt completely in love with their character, the way they behaved, the purity of it. The way they spoke, their purity, their whole demeanor was just so attractive. And I was like, that's what I want to be when I grow up. So, while everyone else wanted to be other stuff, when I was 18, I wanted to be a monk.

Wow.

But I still, yeah, anyway.

How many summers did you spend with him before you said, okay?

Three.

So, throughout the whole of university, I spent three years, every break. I spent with him.

And then after college.

Then after college, that was it. I didn't even go, so I graduated, but I didn't turn up to my graduation ceremony. So my mum's still upset that she doesn't have a picture of me holding this scroll, wearing the hat. And I left for India straight away. Why didn't you complete it then?

I finished as an I graduated in.

The sense of I had my degree. But why don't you go all the way, see it all the way through? Because I had to, I remember it being delayed till December and we finished in May. And I was just like, I'm going I'm not waiting till December. I'm not coming back for that. It's meaningless. What does it even mean? And I left.

I don't care. I want nothing in my life.

Yeah, yeah. And then I went.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I left and I was 22 years old and I just left. I just wanted to be there and be with him and be with the other monks. And I saw them doing all this incredible work. It's not like they were just being monks in the way people think. I always talk about how half the day was silence and a half the day is service. So the service side is building sustainable villages, building food distribution programs, teaching, you know, helping communities. It wasn't just being, it was doing as well. So I love that aspect of half the day to grow myself and then half the day to give.

Yeah. And I was just like, when am.

I gonna have time to do this if I work a job?

Right, right. What's a typical day like then? What time did you wake up?

Yeah.

And you wake up on like a concrete floor with like a little yoga.

Mat type of things.

Literally, yeah.

So we'd sleep on the floor. The floor was wood. It was like this, this nice wood that you have. It was decent wood. So it was wood. You have it thin yoga mat. So anyone who does yoga knows those thin yoga mats, not the posh ones. And then your sleeping bag, literally. She had a sleeping bag. Yeah, you get a sleeping bag, right? A pillow or no pillow? Most people didn't use their pillows, but my sleeping, I had a nice sleeping bag, you know. I was still that monk from London. Everyone can tell, right? It was like, yeah, this sleeping bag looks a bit too premium, but I was like, you know, this is the, this is the least I can do. Of course. So I still had the premium sleeping bag.

We'd wake up at about 4am every day. Every single day, 4am.

So the first week must have been.

A little rough to, like, get into the. Well, you know what?

The way I remember is that I was so pumped that I talked myself into it. Plus, I'd been doing it every summer, so it wasn't new. It wasn't like I just threw myself in. I'd lived like that for three summers. So I was kind of aware of what it was like, but I'd pumped myself so much, I was gonna, I'm gonna be there at 3:30 you know, I'm gonna wake up earlier than everyone, you know, I was in that and.

I've always been like that.

I've always been someone who wants to push. I want to do a workout before everyone. Literally, like, I was like, I'm gonna meditate two hours before everyone's awake. And so I'm pushing myself to limits.

That, that I didn't know and I.

Wanted to test it. I was like, I'm gonna be it for the rest of my life.

So, wow.

So I was like, I'm gonna be it for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna do this properly. So I ended up waking up at 4:00 a.m. From 4:00 to 5:15 you have collective meditation, collective prayers, collective chant, yeah, group.

Chanting.

Chanting. Yeah, group chanting.

It must have been very like healing almost at the same time, just like chanting together. Yes. The symphony that you create with the melodies.

We underestimate what it feels like to be in a place where people have meditated for hundreds of thousands of years. Like, places take on energies. And that place was a place where people have meditated. Those two monasteries, people have meditated for, like, 40 years in that space.

Right.

For over four hours a day. So you're, like, walking into, like, the most spiritual, sacred atmosphere in the world. You only tap into that more. You know, when we go to a place, we know what it feels like when you've been on a stage. that Michael Jackson performed at or when you'd been in an arena where, you know, your favorite artist, whatever it is, the analogy that works for you. It was like walking into the arena of the monks.

Wow.

Like that.

That legendary monks. Yeah.

The legend of meditate. Like everything you expect a spiritual atmosphere to contain. You're getting that because it's. It's amazing. So, yeah, it was four to 5 15 is group meditation, then 5 15 to. seven is private meditation. So that's your personal practice. So that's already three hours since you've been awake, right? Seven o'clock till 7 30 is group meditation, group chanting again. And then 7 30 to 8 30 is a wisdom class on the Vedas. So the Vedas are 5, 000 years old, linguistically and philosophically, the oldest books on the planet. And so you're training the Vedas for an hour. 7 30 to 8 30.

And then probably 10 year old book.

Yeah.

Wow. It's the oldest book, like, yeah, oldest dated book I've heard of.

So.

Yeah.

Over 5, 000 years old. Holy cow.

Yeah.

It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. It was funny, actually, I, I was sharing this, and I share this all the time, but then I'm gonna throw this in there. But I was, when I was at Thai's house, he said this to me. He said that I was telling him about the Bhagavad Gita, which is 5, 000 years old.

And he said to me, 5, 000 years, just like you did.

I just like, yeah, 5, 000 years. He goes, if it lasted 5, 000.

Years, that must be a really good book. And it's true.

If you think about it, how many keep using it?

Yeah. Yeah.

How many things still matter and change.

Lives today that did 5, 000 years ago? Will the Beatles be around in 5, 000 years? Will Elvis? Will me? Will you? You know, will any of this? But the fact that a book has withstood 5, 000 years. That's pretty impressive. That's pretty impressive. Anyway, so we do that from 7 30 to 8:30. And then at 8:30 you get breakfast, right? You finally get breakfast and from 8:30 to 9:00 whatever you eat breakfast. And then for the rest of the day you'd spend the morning studying the books again on a personal level. You do basic things like cleaning, you'd wash your clothes, you'd, you know, all the domestic stuff that you have to do, clean the space you live in. And then usually by lunchtime everything changed. I'd either be out teaching local communities, or we'd be helping build these sustainable villages, food distribution programs, etc. So the rest of the day was not as planned as the morning. So when we now talk about morning routines, when I hear about that, I'm just like, yeah, that's like a monk thing. Like as a monk, you're trained to have an incredible morning routine, and then whatever you do in your day will be incredible because you've started off correctly. So it's interesting to see the rise of the morning routine.

Right.

As habits and success because as a monk that's what you're trained in. Wow. So yeah, that's roughly the schedule and.

Then it changes after 9:30 a.m. And.

Where in India was this? So this is in Mumbai and four hours south of Mumbai. Okay, wow. So but when you go outside of Mumbai, I'm looking at these beautiful plant things you have. It's kind of like that, you know, it's just like woodlands, like green. Really?

Yeah, like no cars, no traffic, no noise, fresh air. How would you guys commute then or travel to speak or teach or build homes?

So we would have cars that we would either drive ourselves. I never drove in India. I never would drive in India. It's the scariest experience in the world. People get scared about New York. India is just a different level. So I never drove, but they would have drivers, et cetera, who would drive us around, monks that drive.

So the, what's it called, the place you were at?

Ashram.

Ashram.

So a monastery is an ashram. Ashram is just to Sanskrit for a month.

So it had like some funding so you guys could rent cars or whatever.

Yeah, so the funding comes from donors that really believe in the work you're doing and then that money is used effectively. Again, people say oh how do monk drive? How do monks use money? Well we'd never use it for ourselves. We had two sets of clothes, we didn't have any possessions, but we were using the cars and what we had to create these communities, to create sustainable villages, to create change in the world. So again, everything's being utilized for a higher purpose rather than the mentality of, oh, you can't use that. So if we didn't use that, we might be happy. But how are you going to help the rest of the world?

Right.

You know, so that's how we were trained.

Were you in contact with your family as well during this time or.

Yeah, I used to connect with my family because the tradition was taught of, like that, again, that balance between Detachment and attachment. So it said that. Detachment and attachment are two sides of the same coin. Attachment and aversion. So some people just want to be monks or want to have isolation because they want to get away from reality, which is no better than being fully attached. So the Bhagavad Gita says that attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin. So actually the ideal is the central balance where you're able to talk to your parents, you're able to give them love, you're able to be grateful, But then again, you're still realizing that there's more impact you can have in the world than just making your parents happy. So it's that perfect dynamic balance between the two. So I'd speak to my mom and dad every month probably, catch up with them on the phone. If I was in Europe and traveling for what we were trying to do as months, and I'd come and see them, etc. Say hello to them. So I wasn't completely detached, but it was always making sure that balance. you know, not like, oh, I'm not that monk life should the way we were trained is monk life should never be an escape from reality. It shouldn't be that you can't do anything else in life and you don't want responsibilities. That's why you become a monk, right? So it was very it was very much ingrained in us that you're not here because you can't do anything else. You're here because you know this is higher and you can have more of an impact in your life in the world.

But you're not supposed to be in a relationship or have sex as a monk.

No, you're a celibate monk.

So why do you detach from that then? Yeah, good question.

Escape from that. So that's to be able to give yourself all the time focus and energy on personal growth and development. So we all know this, right? Anyone who's been, and I've been in multiple relationships before I became a monk.

We all know this.

When you're in a relationship, things slow down because now you're managing two minds. you're now having to give energy to another person. You have to give time to another person. You lose time, energy and moments to invest in your own growth. So monks traditionally have lived celibate lives so that they can focus on their own growth, so that they're not distracted, they're not falling prey to any lust or engaging in any flirtatious conversations that again brings down the consciousness and distracts the mind. you're learning to train your mind like an athlete. Like so many athletes can't. I mean, maybe. Maybe you have this experience, too. But I remember reading David Beckham's autobiography many years ago, and he was talking about that, how they were trained not to have sex before big games.

Right.

No alcohol in the weeks leading up to big games. I remember him talking about how when all his friends were out partying, he'd have to get to bed on time.

Yeah.

So it's like you see athletes go to very similar. training as monks.

Sure.

So it's not abnormal. We see it in modern life where.

People who have to be peak performance.

They also use the same measures.

Yeah.

Very similar measures to monk life.

This impersonal growth also come from experiencing life and not detaching from it, only isolating yourself, but also experiencing all the things that could happen in life and growing in that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the whole thing there is is that most of us just throw ourselves into the deep end and then try swim and figure it out. Monk Life actually begins at like five years old. Like the training of Monk Life is ultimately training in self-actualization and self-awareness. It's meant to start when you're five. The problem is we all went to normal schools that try to put stuff in us rather than take stuff out of us. You talk about this.

Right, right.

Like you were told at school that you weren't very good and you weren't good at English. And now you have a New York Times bestseller.

Right.

And it.

And it's like.

But no one noticed that potential inside you. No one noticed that, oh, Lewis was really creative.

Right.

And you're not the only person. There's so many people who feel like that. So the modern schooling system didn't extrapolate your self-actualization your element and just try to put maths, English, science inside. So the point is that you're trying to get to such a strong Foundation that when you interact, the world, you're going with a sense of strength, fuel, energy to make a difference rather than going into the world and then going, oh my God, where am I trying.

To figure it out?

And I find what happens today is that when you don't, we all know this, I mean self-love has become such a big thing now that when people don't figure, yeah, it's like a huge trend now. But my point is that if you don't start at a place where you have self-awareness, self-actualization, you have figured out what works for you, what your strengths strenths are how you want to be in an environment. When you walk out there, most of us just pretend to be someone else. Most of us get lost. Most of us get carried away.

Yeah.

So my point is, strengthen yourself, grow yourself, and then, of course, interact with the world.

So we had that.

We were going out to pitch to Forbes Ritz list members to fund our philanthropy work. Wow.

Right.

We'd be in these pitch meetings dressed as monks and then be laying bricks. the next moment. So you get the perfect balance. At one point you're in this fancy office and the next morning you're laying bricks, you're like digging. So it's not that you're not getting both, you are getting both. Just the relationship aspect of a female partner or a male partner, if you're a female monk, is limited because the whole aim is to allow you to just focus on first finding yourself before you try and find the checklist you've been following your life.

What would you say are the three questions we should ask ourselves every single day that would help us improve our life?

In that moment?

Internal questions every day during meditation, what should I be asking myself? And what should the world be asking ourselves in order to make sure we're living a purposeful life? Yeah.

What a beautiful question. Yeah, I'd say one of the first questions that always comes to my mind is, How can I be of service today? How can I be an, and this is extended from that first question, how can I be an instrument of love, compassion and kindness? And that's what I count as service in my definition. And so what I would say to anyone listening is define the words yourself, because what service means to you may be different to you. And so it's important, but for me it's like, how can I be of service today? And the reason why I love that is we've talked about this before. When you're wired for service, you're set up, right? We talked about in the last podcast, like service sets you up to feel satisfaction, to build bonds and create connections and does so much. So being of service is one of the first questions I would ask. The second question I was asked myself is, what do I love about myself?

Right?

What do I actually love about myself?

That is probably the most powerful question anyone could ask, because most people never learn to love themselves.

Totally.

And we always find the things that we don't love about ourselves, and we fixate on those things. and that's one of the repeating thoughts in our head that keeps us playing small every day.

All the time. All the time. And we talk a lot about today self-love and self-care, but I think, you know, a lot of that starts with self-awareness, which we know about self-knowledge, but self-knowledge creates self-trust and a lot of it's like learning to trust ourselves. And it's like, if I don't know what I love about myself, how am I ever gonna trust myself? How am I gonna trust that I have my best interest at heart. And so asking yourself, what do you love? And then the third and final question I think I would ask myself is, who do I want to be?

Right?

Who is the person that I need to be, that I can love, that I want to love, that I want to give more love to? Like what parts of growth are there still available? And there's one thing I want to add, which isn't a question, but it has been a really reaffirming or deepening affirmation for me that I keep reminding myself, and I think it's helped a lot of people that I've shared it with is literally some days I'll just put my hand on my heart and I'll just repeat to myself, I'm exactly where I need to be. And it's just such a great reminder. Like, if you literally put your hand on your heart and you just go, I am exactly where I need to be, you stop getting lost in the future. You stop worrying about the past, and you realize that everything you need to learn, everything you read right now to make a change, it's all right now. It's all right here. And so that's one of my favorite things to repeat. It's not a question, but it's more.

Of a mantra saying, Correct.

Yeah.

Because I find it so hard for people today who compare themselves to everyone online about not being where they want to be or not having the career or the relationship or the body or whatever, the following or the attention. A lot of people compare themselves to other people in their space.

Yeah.

Friends, family, and they don't feel enough. And so when we say to ourselves, I'm exactly where I need to be, does that help us eliminate the feeling of not being enough? Yeah, absolutely.

You're spot on because we're always feeling like we're, we either feel like we're ahead, we feel like, oh, I'm doing better than everyone. I'm kind of like winning the game. Or more often we feel behind where we feel like, oh, they just got promoted. Oh, they just, you know, they got proposed to. whatever it is, like we always feel.

Like we're ahead of the game.

They had their first child or whatever. They had their first child, they bought their first house, whatever it is. And we're always feeling ahead or behind. And so when you say to yourself, I'm exactly where I need to be, you realize you're not ahead or behind. And the problem is if you always think you're ahead or behind, then you're always comparing yourself to others. Whereas if you're where you need to be, you now just need to get to the next place of where you want to be.

Yeah.

And also you only get ahead of yourself by first being present with yourself.

And I think it's really hard to say that when you're in a challenging place in your life, I'm exactly where I need to be. I broke, my dog died, my girlfriend broke up with me. It's hard to accept that. And I've been there, I know you've been there. It's really challenging to say, my life is perfect right now when you don't feel that way. But I think when you can learn to accept timing of life, and know that, you know, a mentor of mine early on, when I was broke and I was an intern working for free for six months for someone, I was living on my sister's couch. I remember saying, I would do walks with him every day. And I was like, man, I could really use some money, like in my life. I'm just sick of being broke. And he said something I'll never forget. He said, money comes to you when you're ready for it. And I was like, I feel pretty ready right now. Like, I feel like I could have some money.

Yeah.

I wasn't ready for it mentally, emotionally. My life wasn't set up. I didn't have systems set up in place to really receive the money and be able to do good with it and be able to use it for good in my life and put it to good use. And later when I started to make money, I realized like, oh, I probably would have blown that money. I would have spent it poorly. I would have made the wrong investments, whatever it may be. It's hard to hear when things aren't going well, but I think trusting the timing of your life. Like, if you would have built your empire seven years ago, you probably wouldn't have been ready for maybe you would have been, but you wouldn't have been ready or social media wasn't the right timing for your message to be out there. Is that right?

Yeah, I think that if I wouldn't have gone to Monk School, then I think you can become successful but still feel extremely dissatisfied. or misuse the success.

Yes.

And I don't think that that can be blamed on anyone because no one's ever been taught how to deal with failure or success. There's no class on here's how you deal with failure or here's how you deal with success. But the funny thing is those are the two most extreme things that we all experience.

And the things we're most afraid of are failure and success.

And success.

So how do we deal with failure? If you can give a mini masterclass right now, what would you suggest to people who are afraid to fail how to deal with it.

Yeah, I think one of my first things in failure is don't take it more personally than it actually is. And I'll give an example of that. When I was applying to 40 companies that all rejected me before an interview.

Yeah.

All I was getting was an automated response saying your application will not go any further. I can't take that personally. because they didn't meet me in person. They didn't have a interaction with me. They just saw my name. They saw I've been a monk for three years. That resume is useless. I mean, what's your transferable skills? Like sitting in silence and stillness. Surprise, surprise, no one wants to hire a monk. And so they rejected you.

But that's not personal because they didn't.

Meet me in person. But what if they had met me in person?

Right.

So that's the first step. The first step is don't take all failure. I'll give an example.

Me and you.

We reach out to countless guests to be on our podcast.

Who say no all the time.

Who say no all the time. But if I don't hear a no from the guest directly, that's not a no. Like someone's team can say no, someone's assistant can say no, someone's PR team can say no, but until they say no personally, it's not a no.

Okay, but when they do say no.

Then that's a no, yeah. So then let's move on to the next one. So how do you deal with that type of failure?

Yes. So if I deal with a failure where someone meets me in person and gets the no. No, Jay, you're horrible.

You suck.

Like, I don't want to deal with a monk ever in my life. Yeah. I would never go on your show. I'm never listening to you. Never.

Yeah.

Then how do you deal with that type of person? So I've heard you say this.

I've said a couple of times, and.

I'm sure it's been repeated a bunch of times around how I genuinely believe failure has feedback. Feedback. And so for me, it's like failure has the ability to actually tell you what you need to improve. Now, not to improve to get their attention, improving to get the actions that you want to take.

Yeah, the results you want. The results you want.

And don't make that result about the person who said no. Don't try use failure as a way to prove someone else wrong.

Because what happens when we prove others wrong?

When you prove others wrong, you end up trying to get validation and approval for them. And now if they're not impressed when you're right, you lose again. So you end up losing twice.

And you spend all this time and energy years maybe to prove something wrong. I've been there many times. And then you're like, I felt good for a moment, and then I feel empty again.

Totally.

And so that's the thing about failure in the second half is you have to see failure as an improvement. If I'm completely honest, everyone who rejected me in my life up until now has made me more hungry, taught me so much more about myself, and made me up my game. And I think if failure doesn't make you up your game, it's the same as losing in a sport.

Right?

When you fail and you've lost games and you've won games on the big stages.

You didn't have the skills, you didn't have the teamwork, you guys weren't hungry enough, you were communicating enough. There's something you were missing. So you go review the game film, you check the stats, you see what could I have done better, and you try to improve that for the next game. And I think a lot of people can do that in life, but we're so afraid to go on the next game of life. Like I got rejected once and it hurts so bad. how do people learn to overcome that pain of rejection?

Yeah.

To keep going.

Yeah. You know, in sports, luckily, there's a season which is like, you might have 30 basketball games. After you lose the first two, you don't say, I'm just gonna give up the rest of the season.

Yeah.

You keep playing.

Yes.

But in life, a lot of people stop playing.

Yeah.

Why? Yeah. I think that's great mental training, too. I think sports is great mental training because you have to show up to the next game. Even if you lost and you don't feel bad. Exactly. That. You don't feel good, sorry? And one of the things, before I dive into that question, one of the things that you reminded me of was the Last Dance documentary. So there's that season that Michael Jordan, everyone is in agreement that he is one of the best players to be playing and they keep losing.

They didn't make the finals.

They didn't make the finals, they lost. And then they realized they need to get the team and they need to find, I think they're bringing Dennis Rodman and then they start bringing in all these other players that strengthen. Whereas if they would have just said, oh, we got the best player in.

The world, we just keep doing this.

I'm not sure they would have got there, right? But the coach, Phil Jackson and the team, they had to adapt. And so you're saying, why do we feel that pain in rejection and how do we deal with that? I think we feel that pain because we look at a failure, right? We look at it as a complete definition of us, right? We're looking at as, there's that famous statement of like, You know, failure is an event, not a person. And I don't know who said it, but it's one of those statements that really clicks. Like, failure is an event, not a person. Whereas we start thinking we are the failure. Like we say, I am a failure. Exactly, right? Like, I, those are the words. I am a failure. I got rejected. And it's like, no, your application got rejected. Your effort. Your specific effort at this moment in time got rejected. Your specific exam at this point got failed. You did it. You are not a failure. And so you have to disconnect and distance yourself from the event.

You know what's interesting is like, no one who was successful at everything they did ever told a good story. Like the greatest stories are the ones who overcame failure and adversity. It's not the ones who are like, everything was easy for me. Everyone loved me, everyone accepted my actions. I didn't have to work hard and it just came to me effortlessly. People don't care about that. That's not a good story. That's not an inspirational human being. It's a human that had to deal with adversity that we really admire and we look up to. Even if they had some low moments, it's a much better story of hearing about someone's failure than hearing how they succeeded.

Totally and that's a beautiful lesson that one of the biggest mistakes we make is we don't study the stories of the greats. So how many people's lives have you studied from start to finish? If you've studied someone's life from start to finish, I genuinely believe this is like the core skill that's needed. I would say that the people I admire, I have studied their lives from start to finish. I know why they made bad decisions, what they consider to be good decisions. Like there's autobiographies and biographies out there. podcasts like ours where people can come and listen to people's stories. If you've not studied someone's story, then you can't follow that path because every time you hit a rejection, so every time I get rejected, I think of Steve Jobs getting kicked out of his own company.

Crazy as that sounds.

Every time I fail, I think about Michael Jordan losing a game. Every time I get tired of training, I think about Cristiano Ronaldo putting in that extra rep. Those are the visual cues that we need, but you only get those visual cues if you've done the research and the study. And then you go, oh, if Steve Jobs was kicked out of his own company, but then still had the audacity at one point to go and build Pixar, then I think I'm all right.

If I just didn't get this job. Yeah, and he wouldn't, and Apple wouldn't be where it is today without him getting kicked out, learning the lessons, having humility, like gaining some compassion, all the things that people said he didn't have fully at he learned by having to be kicked out, start something else, bring a new perspective. What did you call it? The association?

Yeah, associating, yeah.

Like he was able to then go somewhere else and spot different trends and then he came back to Apple and built it to where it is today. It helped build it to where it is today. And he probably, Apple wouldn't be where it is today without him being a rejection.

Which is crazy to just think of that, yeah, exactly.

So if he would have kept saying, I'm gonna keep doing it my way and this is the way it is, it probably would have had some challenges.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the, the more you study the lives of inspirational people, and that's what I'd say is everyone should pick their top three inspirational people and go and study their life.

The full life.

Yeah.

Their full life.

Yeah.

And read the biography, the autobiography, listen to every podcast. I mean, like, seriously get immersed in that person or the journey in the industry you're trying to make it in. And when you do that, you'll that your journey actually doesn't look that different from theirs. It actually probably looks similar.

So how do we go inside our minds and say, okay, I'm getting rejected over and over again. I'm trying really hard. It's not working. How do we still deal with that emotional pain? Is it just the self-awareness that every great person had to go through this and this is just a timing thing? Like how do we eventually just ease that or should we not try to use that pain?

I don't think it's about easing it. I think it's about engaging it. You know, it's. And I believe that the engaging does the easing, in my opinion, at least. So what I mean by that is behind that pain is a understanding that I don't have this skill.

Yeah.

Or is an understanding of I didn't try hard enough, or is an understanding of, oh, maybe there's just another option. Because guess what? Sometimes you may have done the best pitch in the world and you just had an executive that didn't like your vibe. Keep going.

Keep going.

Like, you, you know, you've just got to realize that there's one. There's a, there's a, you have to engage that pain in Discovery, and that eases it. Because when you discover, like, oh, like, for example, let's take my podcast. My podcast producer, the team that was meant to produce my podcast, pulled out two weeks before we launched my podcast, and I thought I had this big deal. I was really excited. I'd never launched a podcast before and I thought, oh yeah, this can be amazing. And I was in India meditating for my annual trip that I take. I come back and the first news I remember receiving is, by the way, this isn't happening anymore. And I'd said that I was gonna launch my podcast on Valentine's Day 2019. And I had my episodes recorded with my wife and I'd already gone out and made the content. So just to tee up how bad that two week notice was, I'd already gone to Monaco, interviewed Novak. I'd already interviewed Lily, I'd interviewed Russell Brand in London, I'd interviewed my wife, and obviously those people are all close friends and people I know, so they were very happy to be on the podcast even when it was new. So I'd already done all that effort. I'd already created all the content myself. All this podcast company was gonna do.

Was put it out there and help.

Me market it a bit, and then they pull out two weeks before it comes out. And I'm going to myself, wow, okay, like I can either sit here and be really sad or I can scrap together and figure it out. And so the only thing I realized was it actually turned out perfectly because now I own my podcast.

There you go.

And I'm completely aware of every part of the journey and it gave me more confidence in myself that I could scrap together when I had to. Yeah. And I think that's what it is, that we lack confidence. We're waiting for someone else. house to tell us how we should feel about ourself.

And I think if we go back to those three questions you said, like when you're feeling a failure over and over and over again, or you feel a sense of I'm not enough or whatever it may be, go back to asking those three questions to yourself. How can I be of service today or serve today? What can I love about myself? So even when everyone's saying no, what is there to love about me? To remind yourself and not be validated by other people's opinions.

Yeah.

And who do I want to be that I can love?

Yes, exactly. Who do I need to become?

Who do I need to become that I can love? And just keep focusing on the process because the process is the prize.

Yes.

And focus on that journey.

Yes.

I'm curious about success then. You know, we've talked about how to deal with failure, but how do we deal with success? Because this is actually, when I ask most people, 50-50 of people are failure and success is their biggest fear. And some people say, why would you be afraid Success, but a lot of people are afraid to succeed because of the weight, the pressure. Can I maintain it? My family and friends aren't going to support me and they're going to try to pull me back down, all this stuff. How do we deal with success? Because we're not taught this growing up. Yeah.

So how do you think we should deal with it? One of my favorite ways to deal with success is continue trying to be the least successful person in the room that you're in. I think there's those statements of like, you know, never be the dumbest person. Yeah, never be the smartest. nice person in the room, Etc. And I think it's the same with if you become successful, don't just stand at the top of the mountain. Don't just stand at the top of the building. Go back down the stairs and. And keep building and keep living as that person that got you there. Because you only got there because you started from the bottom, right? No one starts at the top. And so you started at the bottom and you built it up. And it was that mindset that you started with that got you there. And so you wanna keep rediscovering that mindset and new parts of it, and new parts of that mindset too, where you're always trying to challenge yourself. And so for me, one of the best ways of dealing with success is keep expanding the goalposts, right? Keep widening the goalposts, keep making them harder to reach and challenging yourself. Because when you challenge yourself and you push yourself out of your comfort zone, you're naturally humbled. Because you're naturally humbled when you're walking into spaces. I'm sure you feel this sometimes. Sometimes I walk into a room and I'm like, how did I even get here?

Sitting at a table, I'm like, why should I be here?

Yeah, and there's part of it that's imposter syndrome and that can have its own negativity, but part of that just lets me feel like a beginner again. And I appreciate that feeling and I go, this is amazing because learning to be grateful and stop just thinking that, oh, I earned all of this and I did it all myself and I'm self-made. you start recognizing gratitude for all the people that got you there. So for me in success, first thing is be grateful for all your teachers, mentors, guides, people that got you there. The second thing is always keep challenging yourself because the more you're out of your comfort zone, the more naturally you stay humble. You don't stay humble by trying to be humble. You become humbled constantly by trying to do stuff that's out of your league, which constantly makes you prepare, work, deepen, study all that stuff. All of that stuff that makes you go there again. And then the third thing you do with success is I think you try and share it with others. You try and use your platforms as an opportunity to give other people a platform so that they can come up as well because you're reminded of what a beautiful gift you have.

Yeah, and how the people supported you or gave you an opportunity or gave you an interview or something.

Yeah, there was someone successful who had.

To give you something in the piece of wisdom.

Coming on your podcast. Yeah, giving you an insight.

Or even rejecting you.

Like, even indirectly, someone had to do something.

That's true. You know, it's funny because I love this approach to having humility when you succeed. And I also think, let me know if you think I'm off here. I also feel like sometimes we get into a place where we're always putting it on other people. Like, you know, it's not about me, it's about the team, it's about this. Like, I see that a lot as well, where or some people are more extreme, like, I'm the man. And then other people are like, you know what? It wasn't me at all. It was God. It was the team. Like, I just showed up, you know? So I think there's a balance of, I love this speech that Snoop Dogg gave, where he's, I think it was like on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. He's got his stuff. And he says, like, I want to thank me for me. I want to thank me for all those late nights I put in, for all the hard work, for like overcoming the rejection. Like, he went on this thing, and I want to thank me for like, showing up.

Yeah.

And I think we also should acknowledge ourselves for, yes, people helped us.

For sure.

We got guidance. We had all this, this, this access. But Snoop Dogg still had to show up.

Yeah.

He still had to put in the hours and the time to make the results. And I think it's correct me if I'm wrong. Is it good to also acknowledge ourselves for the work we put in, the wins, the things we do.

Yeah.

Or is it all about being humble and acknowledging everything else?

I think it's about being honest. It's honesty, right? Like humility means to be honest. It's like the ability to say, this is what this person deserves credit for, and this is what I deserve credit for, and this is what this person, it's like, it's kind of like when you write the acknowledgments of your book, right? You write, I mean, and I remember doing that process and really thinking about like, who's helped this book in different ways? And everyone gets their line in the acknowledgment who's made a difference. Now, your name goes on the front cover because you you wrote the book. Like you want everyone to receive the credit to the degree they merit it.

Yes.

And so you never want someone to feel like they didn't receive as much credit as they deserve. And at the same time, you don't want to give someone more credit than they deserve. The point of credit is to give it where credit's due.

Right.

And so for me, that's honesty, that's humility. Arrogance and pride is when you start to feel like only you did it on your own. And we all know that's just not true. Like, I can't say I did it all on my own. I just, I can't anyway. I definitely can't say that. And I can't say it was all other people. And so that is the, that's where honesty and humility, I think, live together.

Yeah.

Acknowledging everything about it.

Yeah.

I'm curious about, you know, a lot of people haven't learned about how to deal with failure or success, and I don't think people have been trained how to believe in themselves. And for me, self-doubt is a big thing. I think it keeps people back from their dreams. And I'm curious, I want to share five words with you. Beliefs, thoughts, words, actions and intentions. How should we be thinking about beliefs, thoughts, words, actions and intentions within our life? Because I think those five things dictate the results, the outcome, our feelings, all of this in our life based on beliefs, thoughts, words, actions, intentions. How should we be thinking about these things? How should we be speaking to help us build our self-confidence? What's your thoughts? I'm throwing a lot at you here.

But... No, let's go down each of them. So let's start with beliefs.

So.

I think the first thing we have to do with beliefs is you have to realize everyone has them. It's not like you don't have beliefs just because you don't know what they are. Everyone has beliefs that they're currently living with. and I think life is about unlearning the beliefs you have and questioning the beliefs you have and then creating new ones. So the first thing I do with the beliefs.

Unlearning.

Yeah.

From the beginning.

From the beginning.

What if your parents had the answers and the way and the religion and this, should we be questioning it all?

I think we should question it because questioning the okay, questions are the most powerful invention in the world because questions either strengthen or weaken a belief based on the information. So questions aren't always from a place of doubt and cynicism and trying to find a weakness. Questions are a sincere request to figure out something. Like when we're sitting in these interviews, you're not sitting there trying to like be cynical or be you want to help yourself and people who are listening and watching. And so that's a question first of all. A question is not to catch someone off guard. A question is not to put someone down. A question is not to mislead people. A question is to uplift yourself and others. And when you ask a question in that way, the answer can either strengthen a belief you already have or weaken it or introduce you to a new one.

Why do we get so frustrated when our beliefs get questioned? When we have a belief that we put out in the world, or we question someone's belief. Why do people, when they get shaken in their beliefs, they attack, they break down, they whatever. Why is that? Why don't people just say, okay, that's interesting. Let me look at that more.

Yeah, because we have defined our identity by our belief. So imagine you're on one of these assault courses and you're on this rope and you're being told to swing to the next rope. But in order to catch the next rope, you need to let go of this rope. but you're scared because this rope is currently your safety. So your current belief is your safety. And when you have to consider holding on to another belief and to entertain both together, you're scared that if that one doesn't hold, I'm basically gonna fall. So people are scared that their belief is currently their safety net. And so even if it's wrong, it still makes them feel safe and they feel comfortable, and we don't want to feel uncomfortable, so we'd rather hold on to that. safety net, right? So the only way to do it...

How do we get comfortable with questioning our beliefs but not being like holding on to nothing?

Well, realizing that you don't have to change your mind or you don't have to leave what you think in order to entertain or be curious or explore anything and explore like exploring, experimenting and experiencing can either strengthen the belief you have or help you find a new one. But you have to do that middle three E's of exploring, experimenting and experiencing. And the problem is that we are just theoretically thinking, we're not experiencing the benefits.

And this is what I love about what you've done in your past. We've talked about this, how you grew up in a certain religion and then you started studying different religions to see, okay, let me just try this on and let me see what I like about this religion and does that apply? Can I let something go and what I grew up in, not making anything right or wrong, but just saying what works for you.

Correct.

Right?

Yeah.

Taking that experiential journey of asking questions from different beliefs allows you to just say, okay, yeah, this is working for me already. I don't need to change. Exactly. And I like this and I'm gonna keep growing and go from there, right?

Yeah, definitely. I desire for safety and security. So what you're speaking about was when I was around 16, maybe 15, we used to celebrate Christmas every year. And Christmas is probably my favorite time of year. We were talking about it, like I love listening to Christmas music. Christmas songs and I love Christmas decoration and for me Christmas is presents. Presents. And so I grew up in a culture where we celebrated Christmas but Christmas was presents and a family dinner. And because I went to my school in England we'd celebrate all the religious holidays so we knew about all the main stories behind every major world religion. And so I remember celebrating Christmas at home but thinking I don't know that much about Jesus and should I not be connecting with Jesus because that's why we even have this day. And so I started going to church in my local area just out of curiosity. I wasn't trying to be a Christian or trying to be a Hindu or trying to be anything. I was just interested and curious to be like, what is it about Christ that created a day that has lasted thousands of years that people all over the world celebrate? There must be something here. And so I feel like we get so scared because we want clear designations. We want like a clear title of I am this or I am that. And that gives us a sense of safety and security. But really answers come in the curiosity, not in the security.

Yeah.

Right.

What does that identity do to us in a good way or in a negative way?

In a good way, it creates a and this isn't just about religious identity. It's any identity. Just any identity. Whatever.

Yeah.

It's not about holding on to this identity of yourself.

Yeah.

So in the good sense, it surrounds you with more people like that. So if I'm a podcaster, I hang out with more podcasters. We learn more about podcasting, and that's a great thing because we will become better podcasters. The mistake is I go, oh, I can only be a podcaster, but I can't write a book. I can't make a video. I can't do that now. And that's the mistake that it makes. So it should be evolving. These titles that we give ourselves, these communities should help us evolve, not devolve. Yeah. And, and not stop us from expanding and growing. And so you want to be around people that are always curious and insightful.

What did you notice about the outside world maybe a year or two years into the flow of your learning about yourself and about the wisdom and the philosophy of being a monk? What did you start to notice the most? Most common things of when you're just talking to people or just walking down the street and just being aware of what was happening?

It's actually, I've been quoting the Gita a lot, the Bhagavad Gita, but I'll quote a modern day, I guess somewhat modern day philosopher because I think this encapsulated perfectly. He said that, this is Cooley, a philosopher writer, he said, Today I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am.

Right?

And I always feel that blows my mind every time I say it. I'm not what I think I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am. So we live in this perception of a perception of ourselves. So we've all seen the movie Inception. Imagine you get lost so far into someone's perception and that's your perception. So if I think Lewis thinks Jay's good, then I feel good. But if I think Lewis thinks Jay's not good, then I don't feel good. and we live like that today. If I think someone thinks I'm confident, I feel confident. But if someone thinks, if I think someone thinks I'm not confident, then I don't feel confident. And that's what I noticed when I lived as a monk.

That people were so far removed from.

Their own understanding of themselves that they were either lost living a life they didn't want to, lost living up to someone else's expectations, or lost becoming someone to impress someone else.

And so people were so, their real.

Identity is almost buried under six feet of multiple identities they've created. And that's what I started to notice. We have a social media identity, we have a LinkedIn identity, we have a Twitter identity, we have a Facebook identity. Then we have an identity we are to our boss, then we have an identity we are with our Friday night friends, then we have an identity we are to our Sunday people. and we've just created all of these identities. And if you ask people, who are you? We struggle to answer that question. And so as a monk, you're just taught to dig deeper beyond all those identities and kind of, again, bring out yourself rather than Define yourself. So that was what I noticed. I just started to notice that people had a big lack of self-actualization they were very disconnected from what they wanted, needed, and understood about themselves. and most people's identities were crafted by the reflection in this mirror of their mom, dad, friends, boss, partner, whatever.

How do we start to tap into self-realization better? Yeah, how do we learn that about ourselves?

So I think it starts even at a physical level. I'll give a basic example at a physical level. Anyone who's a physical fitness or a health coach will we all know that different bodies need different food, different sleep, different fluids. We don't all need the same thing. Me and you with different body types can't do the same workout.

Right.

Right.

We can't.

I would die if I tried to.

Lift what you lift. It just wouldn't work.

And I would die trying to sleep on the floor.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah, but exactly.

Right.

And that's the point that our bodies.

Have different tolerances in different things.

That's self-awareness at the physical level already. So now what I realized by living as a monk is I can't survive of a four hour sleep a night. Like I realized that about my body.

When you were a monk?

Kind of when I was leaving and when I kind of came back to my real bed and I was just like oh I like this. Yeah, this is good. Yeah, right? And I kind of came to that realization that I'm not able to function as effectively as I want to. I could when I was a monk because we meditated so much.

That just got you to a higher vibration. Exactly.

So now I meditate two hours a day, then I used to meditate four, six hours a day, plus the collective, plus the environment, all of that helps. So now that I don't have that, I can't.

But if I have that, I can. Could have just slept those four hours.

And been a better.

Exactly. So the point I'm making is that's physical self-awareness. We know our limits, we know what we can do, we know what we can't do, we know what our challenges are. on a mental level, what's self-awareness? Knowing what type of people I like to be with, knowing who helps me grow and who drains me. That's mental self-awareness. So self-awareness at every level. And then we go into the spiritual consciousness level. That's disconnecting from all these identities and understanding the identity that we are wired for generosity and we're wired to serve and only in service. Can we be happy? And that's us on a consciousness level. That's the identity of consciousness. Like water is wet, the sun is heating in light, consciousness is service. Like that's how it fits.

Why are we wired for that?

We're wired for that because all of.

Us as consciousness have been designed and.

We see it since like even kids, like I was giving this example of this beautiful and you may have seen it is it went viral on Instagram. there was this little girl, probably about two years old, watching a cartoon, and she takes a handkerchief, and the cartoon character's crying, and she goes up to the television, and she tries to wipe it off, right? And it's incredible because this girl's two years old, and she thinks this cartoon character animal's crying, and she gets a real tissue and tries to wipe it on the TV, obviously it doesn't work. And there's another one that with this statue of this rabbit and there's like four rabbits and one rabbit's like falling off the end and this little boy is trying to push the rabbit up but it's a stone rabbit, it's just a statue. He's trying to help it back up.

So we see and there was a.

Great article in Wired about this, about how we're wired for generosity. Our brain is happier in service. Why are we that way? I'm not fully sure but what I do know from my experience as a monk or what I can verify is that we've been created to connect and serve. We've been created to connect and serve.

But you don't know why.

I can give you my opinion in the Vedic opinion. I can't tell you why for everyone. The reason is the main deep or the main Vedic reason is that we've been created that way because that's our nature and that's what makes us most happy. because this whole world is almost a school and education system to make us realize that one truth, to make us realize that one truth. And we see that when we're serving, when we're doing that, we feel genuine happiness. But when we're trying to gain and greed and power and strength, we even feel empty as it slips through our fingers. So the why is because that allows us to connect to our deepest self.

The happiest self that we have.

And modern studies have shown that. So Michael Norton at Cambridge University, he did a study where they gave people 5-10-20 dollars to spend on themselves. Have you seen this?

Go ahead though.

Yeah.

And then they spent 5-10-20 dollars on others. So people spent 5-10-20 dollars on makeup, Starbucks and normal stuff, right? That was the, that was three common, three makeup Starbucks and then something else. I can't remember. And then people who spent on other people, they also bought others the same stuff. Starbucks was still in there.

Yeah.

And they're buying all this stuff. What they found is that when people self-assess their happiness before and after without knowing about this a b test, people who spent the money on themselves didn't feel any happier or any less happier. But the people that spent on others felt 10 to 20 happier. And then he went and tried this out. This was a college in the United States that then went and did in Africa, they did it all over the world and the stats and the pattern showed the same.

That we're wired for generosity, we're wired.

To serve to make us realize that that's our real nature, that's our greatest self-awareness.

Wow.

Right, so that's the Vedic opinion and that's why you had to probe me to go to why it is. I know why it is but I yeah. I want to give people an answer that I feel they can connect with.

So what was one of the greatest lessons you learned in those three years then?

Do you want to share the one I shared before or share another one? I've got an.

I'll share another one.

Yeah.

Okay. I'll share another one. This is, this is probably my, one of my favorite things. And it's because this was what I learned on my first day of monk school. So if you think about what you learned on the first day of school, when you were three or four, if I don't remember what it was. Alphabet, the numbers, right? 1 to 10, ABC, right? The 26 letters of the alphabet. So I remember my first day of monk school. I've just shaved my head. I'm now wearing robes. I still look like I'm from London, like I can't get away with it. I'm walking around and I noticed this monk who's teaching. This monk's 10 years old and he's teaching a group of five-year-old monks, right? And I see him teaching. He looks like adult, like, wow. You know, his ability to, like, teach these five-year-olds and conduct himself. And he's got this great aura about him. And so I'm kind of eavesdropping on his class. I can't obviously go and sit with a bunch of five-year-olds even though I really want to because I'm like, I feel like a five-year-old next to that 10-year-old and I, I went up to him and I said, what are you doing? And he said, oh, well, we just taught their first class ever. And I said, oh, cool. And he said, well, what did you learn in your first class at School. And I said, oh, well, I learned the alphabet and numbers. And I said, well, what did they learn? He said, you want to know what they learned on their first day of school?

I said, yeah, of course. He said, the first thing that we.

Teach them, the first thing you learn at Monk School is learning how to breathe. I said, why? He said, because we're taught that the only thing that stays with you from the moment you're born to the moment you die is your breath. All your friends, family, the country you live in, all of that's gonna change. The only thing that doesn't change that stays with you from the moment you're born to the moment you die is your breath. And he said, notice when you get stressed, what changes? Your breath. When you get angry, what changes? Your breath. When you're sad, what changes?

Your breath.

When you're happy, what changes? Your breath. Every emotion is experienced with to change in the breath. So he said, when you learn how to navigate and manage your breath, you can actually navigate any situation in life. And I was just blown away. I was just like, wow. And then I remember researching it and noticing how athletes were taught how to breathe, musicians, singers, especially those who play wind instruments, will have to reach really high notes. They're all trained how to breathe because.

They have to use their breath.

In challenging, stressful, pressure-filled situations. But I was like, so are all of us. You've got to go on stage in front of 10,000 people. You've got to go to a concert. You just lost a deal or a contract. Our breath changes in all those scenarios, yet we don't know how to use our breath to change our life. And so for me, that was a huge learning point where I just thought.

Wow, that's what you're taught.

The priority is on root of things, not the leaf of the symptoms. And that's the biggest thing about living as a monk. You're not dealing with your challenges at symptomatic level. You're dealing with it at root level.

Right?

People say, oh, if you're stressed out.

Just take a stress pill.

If you're stressed out, just go to get a massage. If you're stressed out, just relax, watch Netflix and chill. But all that's doing is pacifying you escape for that hour, two hours, maybe a week. peak. But going to the root of it and learning how to change your breath means you can manage any situation in life.

And.

And that principle, that's an example of the principle, which is so much deeper that always go to the root. It will take longer, but it will last longer.

Right, right.

Right.

If you go to the root, it takes longer, but it lasts longer. But if you go for the symptom, you get it quick and it never lasts. And it never lasts. And we all know that. So that was the deepest principle I learned as a monk. Always go to the root. Cut down the root of that weed in your heart. Cut down the root of that weed in your mind. Don't just let it grow and kind of water a little bit and snip, snip, cut a bit. Just really go to the root and just knock it out there.

Just get rid of it. Get a big axe and cut it down.

Wow.

Are there any weeds in your life right now?

Loads.

In your heart or in your mind? Always. My daily practice is to refine my intention. The biggest weeds that we all get.