DO THIS To Make MILLIONS In A Market Crash (Become A Millionaire)| Robert Kiyosaki & Lewis Howes

We're publicly going out into a depression. You know, we're not going to get out of this.

Really?

Oh yeah. And so the thing is, is this good for you or bad for you? I'm looking forward to it. You know, the last crash was 2008. And I made more money in 2008 than in my whole life.

Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the legend, Robert Kiyosaki in the house. Thank you so much for being here. Super excited about this.

Well, thank you. People say I'm a legend in my own mind, you know? And my reply is you may as well be a legend in your own mind because you're not a legend in anybody else's mind.

Hey, you got to believe in yourself if you want to create great things in the world. At least you've got to believe. It's almost 25 years now, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, right? Are you sick and tired of talking about Rich Dad, Poor Dad or is.

It still something you enjoy talking about? No, it's kind of what we were talking about. This is what I was supposed to have done anyway. You know, it was so I got on my path. Yes. And what I was saying, what you and I were talking about before we started, is I meet a lot of guys who something tragic happens in their life, but it was the best thing ever happened to them. Like I had a friend who was a Olympic snowboarder and he did one of those goofy things those guys do. shattered his body and nobody could heal him. So he became an acupuncturist. And the guy is greatest, he found this real gift. It's not snowboarding or whatever he was doing, is he's a healer and he uses acupuncture, you know, and he heals people. He's unbelievably good, but if he hadn't crashed, he wouldn't be where he is today.

Yeah.

What was the big tragedy in your life?

Oh, this every other day.

What was the big tragedies? What was like the big aha moments where something bad had to happen for you to say, oh, let me wake up and take down this path?

Oh, that's a lot of, I mean, I really was, as an entrepreneur, my biggest failure was that I was successful in my first venture. This is, I was about 25 years old and I started a nylon and vinyl coated surfer wallet business. And everybody said, well, why are you doing that? I said, well, I don't know what else to do. And I used to make nylon wallets. I went to school in New York at a military school, a sailing school. So I used to sell these nylon wallets out of sales. So when we're looking for an idea for a product, the product sucks, the product doesn't really count. I just needed to start a business. so I was working at Xerox at the time in Hollwll, and I gave my, I showed this little wallet to my, to partners, to criminals, but anyway. So we came out with these nylon wallets. We had them manufactured in Korea, and nobody would buy them. So I have 100,000 wallets in a warehouse in New York. I'm in Hawaii. and my friend and I are going door to door trying to sell these students. No way. And everybody kept saying, you shitting me? What are you guys doing? And what happened was because we failed at the wallet business, I was sitting in our offices in Honolulu and somebody says, hey, jogging had just started. Baby boomers are first getting into hell. And they started jogging. They had the Nike waffle and all these other good shoes. And so this guy in Golden Gate Park goes for a jog and he didn't know what to do with his keys, so he put his key on top of his car tire. He went for a run and guess what? He came back and his car was gone. Wow. And so the headline says, San Francisco Times, what does a jogger do with their key? And I went, oh my God. So since I have kind of a quasi-engineering background, I designed with a hook and tear method, and built the shoe pocket that went on a runners shoe. So I had this nylon wallet, not a runner's shoe. I mean a shoe pocket. So I go around the world again, so I'm going broke so fast. We had no money, we just kept borrowing money, raising capital. But it was all good because I was learning how to raise capital. Yeah. So finally we're desperate, we buy a full, those days, it took four months for an ad to come out. So we had to shoot the stupid shoe pocket on a New Balance 320 shoe.

And.

We got it into Runner's World magazine. Oh, wow. It was 16,000 bucks.

Oh my God. A lot of money.

And then we waited for the phone to ring. So we had to wait till like January, February, March, you know, the phone didn't ring. So we want to quit. We're out of money, you know, can't pay the rent, the repo man with my Harley. And it was getting so bad. So, let's give one more shot, just one more shot. So we go to New York City at the Sporting Goods Show at the Coliseum. And I'm setting up my booth in the basement because that's all I could afford. And this guy goes walking past and he goes, my company was called Rippers. So I'm putting my big sign up, Rippers. And he goes, Rippers? Rippers? Where have you been? And I turn around and I said, I'm here. No, no, no, no, no. He says, Where have you been? I'm like, What do you mean? He says, I saw your ad. I said, Good. My store is filled with people coming in looking for the shoe pocket.

Wow.

I said, Call me. That's what I said. I asked him, why didn't you call me? He says, you, idiot. You don't have your address or phone number on the ad.

Oh my goodness.

Wow. And then what happened is Playboy put a picture, you know, they featured this young thing with nothing on but a shoe pocket. And our sales went to the run. I looked like a genius, but this is where we went broke. We couldn't keep up with demand. Wallets took off, shoe pockets took off. We were borrowing and borrowing and borrowing just to finance inventory. We were shipping all over the world. And we went broke because I kept raising money and one day, But we were already like 850,000 in debt, which was a lot of money back then.

Wow, that's a lot of money right now.

Yeah, well it's relative. Anyway, so I go back to my partner, Stanley, the accountant, the CPA, the CFO, and I said, how much more do I have to raise? He says, I think 100,000 will do. I said, good, so I'll raise another 100,000, right? So I handed the check to Stanley because he couldn't, you know, accountants can't sell. So I gave him $100,000 and said, well, this take care of the problem. And Stanley said, yes. He took care of his problem. He paid off his investors. Oh. So we're still broke, we have no money, Stanley hits the road. And that's how it went down.

Stealing Stanley.

I love that guy. He didn't make the biggest favor of all. You know what I mean? I learned so much, man.

What was the greatest lesson you learned from that big success slash failure?

Well, just because they're smart doesn't mean they're not dishonest or crook. And I've run into more crooks, you know, I think I hired them on intention.

Until you learn your lesson, right?

No, no, every entrepreneur I've talked to have had somebody steal from. I go to my doctor and this little cutie working for him, this beautiful young woman, you know, as sweet as everybody loved her, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And so one day I went and said, well, where is she? And he goes, Where is she? Well, what she did, because she's tech savvy, she raped the invoicing on their computer. So, you know, 20, you know, like 90 went to the doctor and 10 went to her.

Wow.

And so she heisted. I said, that little sweetheart, he goes, smart. And then, so he, he called the police. And this is the interesting part. Her father was already a rich guy, and he comes in and says, I'll pay you anything, just don't send her to jail.

Wow.

So then that was the next thing you learned. Is it better to send her to jail or take the money? Take the money. So she's in jail. No, no, she's not.

What?

One of the things, you can't teach that stuff.

Yeah, you got to experience it. You got to go through it.

It's right in front of you all the time.

Man, what's the lesson you've learned in the last two to three years that you thought you'd already learned, that you keep learning? That comes the hard way. Is there anything that you still learn or have you seen it all?

No, as you know, Rich Dad Poor Dad is the story of my rich dad who had no education, but he grew up in business for real. He took over the family business at 13. So he kind of grew up in the real world of money, where my rich dad was a PhD. Poor, helpless, desperate. Went to Stanford, Northwestern, very smart guy, good guy in all this. But as you know, teachers don't know shit. They teach stuff they don't know nothing about.

Right.

Well, some of them are forced, I mean, they're forced to teach that, right? Some of them try to educate in other ways and inspire.

Don't defend them. Don't defend them. I don't like them. Anyway, you know what happens? When do I get in the most trouble? is when I criticize going to school. Because to many people, it's their only hope and salvation. Yeah. So if I say, well, I don't think school teaches you much. I may as well piss on the pope. You know, they said, I know. If. If you don't go to school and then I tell us, well, you know, Steve Jobs dropped out. He did pretty good.

Yeah.

It's dropped out. Dell dropped out.

Zuckerberg.

Zuckerberg dropped out. Henry Ford. Walt Disney, they didn't hurt. So anyway, religion is, I mean, education is religion to most people. So that's why I step on toes and I get dumb.

What did Mark Twain's quote say? Like, don't let schooling get in the way of your education or something like that. And one of the reasons why I started the School of Greatness, I was telling you before we started recording, is that I was in the special needs classes literally every day for as long as I can remember. Since kindergarten until seventh year in college, I had a tutor, I was in the special needs classes with a few kids who had learning disabilities. And it was the most challenging thing for me because I wish they would have taught me things that I'm learning now. And the reason I created the School of Greatness, because I was like, what are the things I wish they would have taught me in school to help me get ahead in my finances, to help me get ahead in my health, my mindset, my, you know, how to deal with a breakup in a relationship, a tragic time, like the, the emotional side of things, the the education that I wish they would have taught us, I was like, I'm gonna go create it. I'm gonna find people like Robert and teach us the ways. So, you know, you're doing that through your work and I'm trying to do that, but I think there's people trying to do good by educating outside of the traditional school system where they're, I think they're more limited.

Right.

And that's why I created the cash flow board game is because I learned about money playing monopoly. Yeah, I learned more about life playing Monopoly than I did in four years of college. Yeah, I went to a really good school, you know, the best schools in the world, US Merchant Marine Academy. I came out a rich man, but it didn't teach me much about money. I was only a high paid employee.

Yeah.

So then I joined the Marine Corps. Then I have two professions. I can fly for United Airlines or I could sail for Standard Oil. I didn't want to either because it wasn't challenging anymore. I think if there's a lesson is that I'm looking for the challenge and some people are looking for security. They're two different people. They're very, very, they're extremely different people.

Yeah, and you talk about, you know, rich favors the bold, those that are willing to take risks and willing to put themselves out there. Do you think you can get rich without taking risks and being bold and taking, you know, these big chances? Or can you keep this security mindset and really gain true wealth?

Well, many people have. You look at Cuomo and all those guys, they were born rich kids from their father. Trump could have taken that path too. He was born a rich kid. So it's not, I think it's either an entrepreneur or not.

You know what's interesting? I never thought I was an entrepreneur. Until I had a big wake-up call, a tragic experience. And it was kind of like a perfect storm. I didn't know how to make a dollar. I was not like selling baseball cards. I didn't do the lemonade stand. I didn't try to hustle all this stuff as a kid. I literally maybe made a little bit of money in the summers just because my dad put me to work. And I had this dream of playing professional football. And then I made $250 a week. My dad got in a tragic car accident. He was in a coma for three months. I didn't have a college degree. It was 2008, the economy went down. I was living on my sister's couch. She was feeding me. I was making no money. I was living off three credit cards with student loans. And I didn't have my dad as that kind of financial safety net anymore because he wasn't able to help me and bail me out. So it was more like, what do I do? No one was hiring people with degrees at that time, even master's degrees. I didn't even get a bachelor's degree yet. And I was just like, How do I survive? So I don't think if the worst thing in my life would have happened, I want to be here learning how to be hungry, how did I say, I need to go survive right now and take chances. So I think that perfect storm mentality made me into this survivor creative mindset willing to risk it all. Whereas if I had my father to kind of protect me financially or say, because he was like, you,'re going to take over the business, you're going to come work for me. And that was my mindset when he kind of left emotionally and mentally, he's still alive today, but not the same from the brain trauma, it made me step up as a human being as a 24-year-old and say, I got to learn some stuff.

And that's why I say to young people today, look at this pandemic, this coronavirus pandemic, you know, it's really tragic because it attacks the old guys. But even worse is that baby boomers had it the easiest of all generations. But now their pensions are gone, their 401 s are gone. Social Security is broke, Medicare is broke. So I say to younger people, this pandemic, this crisis is the best thing that ever happened to you. You think about that iPhone. You have more power in that iPhone than I had with my Sparrow mainframe computer. And then so when I meet people that say, oh, the economy is bad, I said, the only economy is between this year and that year. You know, there's the economy out here. But this is the best time for your generation, because you're tech savvy. I'm not tech savvy. You know, you got, this was made for you guys. The old guys like me are being cleaned out by the pandemic.

Unless you have a lot of assets that are bringing you in cash.

The way is clear for you now. The old guys are gone. They're dead.

Right.

What are you gonna do a bunch, you know? So it's really a great time. But exactly, as you're talking about, the bad times are leading to the best times. That's it. Yeah. If you can see it. But some, unfortunately, as you know, there's a lot of your generation are younger. They'll never recover.

Yeah.

They're gonna see this as the worst of times.

I know. And they're gonna, they're gonna reflect back to this in five years and 10 years and say, that's the thing that screwed me up or hurt me and. and be a victim to it as opposed to saying, okay, this is happening and how can I make the most of it? And what's it going to take for me to learn a new skill or get more creative or be hungrier in this time?

Or more important, who's your teachers?

Who are you listening to?

Well, you know, that's why I keep saying to the young, the millennials, you know, if they're a pack of wimps, you know, I meet millennials who are just horrifyingly weak, snowflakes, I call them. you know, they go to college and dorms, they're taught trigger events or whatever, you know, the, the, I don't know what they say today, but they've got to have special rooms where there's no whatever. I'm going holy mackerel. Welcome to the real world, you know, and there's other Millennials who are as tough as nails. I mean, this is the biggest opportunity they've ever had. Huge. So it just depends upon what's between this year and this year, what's in the heart. That's it. Yeah.

What do you think is the next step, the first step or the number one step for the average person with the kind of the normal job that they might be losing, they have some debt, they got some credit card, what's the next step for them to not only survive but thrive in this market, in this time?

Well, I always say quit your job. But that's not, I don't have a job. I've only had one job and I never wanted a job after that because I had to be hungry. Not to say, you know. But we're all different. We're humans, we're different beings. If I show you this diagram here, you know, it's why I created my cash flow board game. Because we have four different intelligences. We have mental intelligence, we have, I don't know what that one is, physical intelligence. You probably have very good physical to make, you know, all and all that. Yeah. Emotional intelligence. But spiritual intelligence. So I went to military school in New York. The first thing is spiritual. You know, I become a marine, it's spiritual.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Because you're putting your life on the fricking line.

Yeah.

You know, so Nazim Taleb, you know, he wrote the book, the Black Swan. He also wrote, Anti Fragile. He says there's three kinds of people in the world. There's fragile, and that's what our school systems are putting out, fragile, MB, snowflakes. And that's your choice. You wanna be that way? have a good life. The second type is that so a fragile is like a champagne flute. You hit it, it shatters. Then the second one is called robust. And a robust person is like the rock. You know, you can pound on them, dump on them. Yeah. They take it, but that's all they do. They take it. And that anti-fragile is somebody like you where they pound the crap out of you. and you get smarter and better because of it. So I love Nassim Taleb, and a lot of people call him Dr. Doom, but the way I look at this whole thing, this economy is we're probably going into a depression. We're not gonna get out of this one.

Really?

Oh yeah. And so the thing is, is this good for you or bad for you? I'm looking forward to it. The last crash was 2008, and I made more money in 2008 than in my whole life. so this one here, 2000, you know, what is it, 2020? I'm gonna get even richer.

But other people are gonna get poor.

And if they're baby boomers, they're gonna blame it on this coronavirus. Oh, my health, you know, that, hey, hit the road, put on some running shoes, change your diet, get some sunlight, you know, get healthy. Don't get, don't be a wimp. But, oh, no, I'm so afraid of dying. I'm going, you,'re already dead. You don't even know it yet. In the Marine Corps, we used to call them corpse people.

Corpse, not corpse.

Yeah. A corpse man. No, a corpse man. A corpse man is a person who's dead but doesn't know it. Wow. They're so afraid of dying, they're already dead.

Yeah.

It's about taking action, taking control of your life, taking control of your health, your finances, everything.

This is the best time to be alive right now.

I did an interview with Dave Ramsey last week and he said, you know, the last three or four recessions or down economies, whatever you want to call it, crashes. He said, I made more money during those times than I do in good times. So I'm hearing him say that. I'm hearing you say that. How did you make more money then? And how are you planning to turn this into an opportunity to make more money now for you? What are the things, the actual, like, action steps? Is it investing more in the stock market? Is it real estate? Is it buying other assets? What does that look like for you?

Now the lesson is here, you got to choose your teachers wisely. When the market crashed in 2008, guess how much money I borrowed? A lot. 300 million.

No way. From investors, the bank, or how does that work?

Because interest rates were dropping and real estate prices were going to the toilet. And when I walk into my banker, this is what Richard Dad Port had about Richard Dad Port has about a financial statement. Income statement, balance sheet, statement of cash flow. It's a book on accounting. People don't even know it's a book on accounting. So I walked into my bank with my partner and had all this property that was floating to the surface. And I say, I'll take them off your hands. I just give me the money to buy the property.

Wow.

That's cajones.

300 million.

Give me the money and I'll buy your properties for you.

That'S crazy.

So it depends. And this is my whole thing. I am now 700 million, almost a billion in debt. Really? You know why? Because I don't pay any taxes. The more debt I have, the less tax I pay. And the average guy goes, how do you do that? Because you have bad teachers. And so it's this whole thing that you got to choose your teachers wisely. That's why I wrote the book, fake. Fake money, fake teachers, fake assets. I don't touch that garbage that Wall Street puts out. I don't have a 401k. I don't have stocks, mutual funds, ETFs. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, but I don't need them. Okay?

Right.

And the other part is, look, for young guys, the best teachers are not in colleges. The best teacher are on YouTube. The best teachers are on YouTube. Wake up. You know, those guys, George Gammon, he's fantastic. Patrick Bet-David, fantastic. He's great.

Jim records.

The fake teachers are in colleges. They're telling them to get a job, the corporate ladder. You know, Patrick Beck David said it the best, and I love that guy. He says there's two kinds of leaders, wartime and peacetime. And a peacetime leader is a guy like my poor dad. He goes through all the right schools, he has all the pedigrees and credentials, he does all the right things, he climbs the corporate or the government ladder and all that. Well, wartime leader goes to war. So, Jobs, Steve Jobs, a wartime leader. I'm a wartime leader. Difference is, I went to war. I went to war twice on the front lines. And I changed, what happened? So, I joined the Marine Corps, I got a flight pilot in Pensacola, I learned to fly, I go to Camp Pendleton, I strap on my weapons, I go to advanced weapons in Camp Pendleton, I go to Okinawa, and then they send me into Vietnam. And I came out of Vietnam about four months later, back to re-station in Okinawa, and I thought everybody had changed. I looked at the fellow Marines and I thought, and it wasn't that there were, I had been to war.

You got tougher. You got dauntless.

It's different when somebody's trying to kill you. Every single mission, I went down three times.

No way. Yeah.

And I came back stronger and tougher. So I come back to Okinawa, I got like a week off and they're gonna ship me back into Vietnam again. I said, what happened to these guys? And it wasn't that they changed, I changed. So what happens to entrepreneurs who go out and they get their ass handed to them and they survive? If you survive, you see the world differently. And so that's what happened to you when you got injured and all this.

Yeah.

You see a different world. Whereas some peacetime, who's climbing the corporate ladder right now, they just lost their job. They're sucking their thumb. You know, this is the worst time for them. Yet for a wartime leader, this, they're excited.

They're excited about it.

Yeah, it's the best at times.

Yeah.

If you're an entrepreneur right now, the world's open to you. You're an employee. Your world's dead to you.

What?

Yeah. An entrepreneur can create their own success.

Yeah. What advice? Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

It's a job. They're a peacetime. Remember? See, watch Patrick Beck David. You know, he's great. Later. Peace time later. Which one are you? You know, I mean, no, that's. That's what it comes down to.

Yeah, that's true.

So this is the best of times for the wartime guys. Horrible time. peace time.

Right. And for the people that are the wartime people, what is the best advice you would give them now for the next year or two years to capitalize on how do they make more money, how do they make their millions during this time? What would you say?

You can't make money now. You should hang it up. I tell all you freaking millennials, man, you got, you know, I don't know where it is. I got this iPhone. If you can't make money with that, hang it up. You know, like we used to say, hang up the jockstrap. You're not going to make the team. You can't make money with an iPhone through social media, through marketing. You have the world at your fingertips and you can't make money. The problem is between this year and this year, it's not out here, it's in here. That's why you've got to choose your teachers wisely.

Yeah.

You know, so let me just say it again. The best teachers are on YouTube. So it's the best porno. Take up your mind, make up your mind what you want to listen to. You know what I mean? We have a choice. So, I'm just being real to you.

I hear you, man. I hear you. What's the best investment people can make then to capitalize on this opportunity? Is the investment in education.

Left ear, look, if you're poor right.

Now.

It was called look in the mirror. That's what Richard always said to me. He said, if you're looking in the mirror right now and you see a loser, that's what you are. You can't make money in this economy. You've got to change your thinking. Hindsight is 2020, as I said. If you're looking, you don't have any money, you don't have a job, your boyfriend or girlfriend has left you. And Cindy goes, well, how did I get here? How did I get here? There was a great book called Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn. So he gets thrown in a concentration camp or a gulag in Siberia and he says, How did I get here? You know how you got there? Because he was a peacetime leader. Didn't fight back. So people are being sold that they'll go to school, get a job, pay taxes, save money, get out of debt, buy a house as an asset, and invest for the long term in a well-defined portfolio of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and ETFs. And I do none of that.

And why do you recommend the opposite?

'Cause I don't have to do that crap. That's Kool-Aid. Go to school. Go to school. What did they teach you about money? Nothing. Get a job, you pay the highest taxes. Pay your taxes, I don't pay taxes. Get out of debt. Well, debt, money is debt after 1971 if you know your history of money. Your house is not an asset, your house is a liability. And why would it invest for long term in the stock market when I can make my own assets? I don't need the stock market. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

Mm-.

But I create my own assets. I create my own cash flow.

Every day I can- you- mean through your business, through your creativity?

I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah. Most people are employees. They're looking for jobs. I'm just looking for...

So like right now- Should entrepreneurs invest in the stock market? Do you think if you're entrepreneurial you shouldn't invest?

Look, fine. A stupid teacher is going to tell you what to do?

I'm asking your opinion. I'm curious as a teacher.

I don't give advice. You know, I wouldn't follow Warren Buffett either. You know why? Because he invests the money. Why do I let him invest my money? I want the fun.

So what's the investment you make the most in?

Look, please hear what I'm saying.

Yes.

I made a fortune in 2008. 2020, I'm making more money and paying less taxes. It doesn't mean I don't have problems, but I'm prepared for this. My biggest problem right now is because everybody's taking a vacation, I can't get enough product. I'm selling out, you know, my cash flow game is sold out. It's selling out constantly, all over the world. All over the world, I get royalties from my book sales. My book sales are going through the roof right now. So I'm making more money.

That's information, yeah.

There's two kinds of discipline. There's internal or self-discipline, and then there's external discipline. So right now, if the world's kicking your butt, that's external discipline. And if you're self-disciplined, the world's kissing your butt right now. It's up to you. So that's why I love the Marine Corps. That's why I love going to military school and not a university, because I got my ass kicked. every single freaking day. First word I had to learn at the academy, mission. Mission is spiritual. What's your mission? And my mission has always been to serve people. Most people only give a fuck is making money. That's screwing people. That's called the Federal Reserve Bank, Wall Street and all that. I want nothing to do with them. I just don't play their game. But you have to get smarter enough to play their game. So that's why YouTube has the best teachers. This guy George Gammon, Matt, he's a great teacher. Patrick Beattie, David, fantastic teacher. Cardone, fantastic teachers. So choose your teachers wisely. That's all, that's what I say, because I have to choose between my rich dad and my poor dad. My poor dad, PhD, poor, helpless and desperate. And that's what he wanted me to do when I came back from Vietnam was get my master's degree, get my PhD, and fly for the airlines. If I had done that, my friends who flew for United, they're broke. You know why they're broke? Because Wall Street stole their pensions. It's called an ESOP, employee stock option plan. The biggest crisis coming up right now after this pandemic is pensions are going to crash. That's right, you got it now. Yeah. Thanks, Mike.

Why are they gonna crash?

Because they're empty. Mike, wake up! Wake up!

You!

Know there's a better book than that. It's called the Creature from Jackal Island by G. Edward Griffin. It's a big book, get it on audiobook and listen to it, you know, a couple of 10 minutes a night or something. The Federal Reserve has only one purpose, is to keep the rich rich. That's their only job. So every time the market crashes, as you notice, money pumps in, they pump the prices up. The rich exit and the poor middle class who listen to Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman, and their advice is good for the middle class. Don't get me wrong. They're told to invest for the long term. Okay, so what's happening to the poor and middle class with their 401k and IRA right now are set. That's like saying, okay, put the handcuffs on the Titanic. It's going down. Meanwhile, the rich have got their G5 flying in to pick them up and get off the boat. They're out.

Right.

Because the problem isn't in the stock market, the problems in the repo market. Corporate credit market, the consumer commercial paper market. They don't tell you that. They don't teach that in school. So suddenly voila.