Dr. Phil REVEALS The 3 Steps To Find & Build The PERFECT Relationship! | Lewis Howes

You don't talk about issues and resentment while you're angry with each other. Talk about it while things are calm. And most people think, no, no, no, let sleeping dogs lie. I don't want to bring up an issue when there isn't one. No, that's when you need to talk about it. That's when you need to say, Look.

I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really?

Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. I'd love to ask you some questions about relationships because you have a lot of wisdom around this. and my audience loves to hear about how to find the right partner, how to improve the quality of the relationship they have already intimately. And you've been with Robin for how long? Almost 40. Is it 40?

We just had our 45th anniversary on August 14th.

Wow, 45 year anniversary. How long have you been with her?

About 50 years.

50 years?

Yeah, just 48, 49, somewhere in there. But almost 50 years. We've been married 45.

So when did you, and you were married before, correct?

Very short time. I'm a high school sweetheart for a very short time. We had the good sense before we had kids or anything to say, we weren't ready to do this. We were just married for literally a few months.

I mean, we don't even really know who we are until how old do you think that we kind of form our real identity?

I think until you've been out and seen some of the world and had jobs and changed locations and gotten away from home and family and been on your own. Where you've really found out who you are and what you're about. It's hard to know who you are entering into a relationship. And that takes some time. And, you know, when Robin and I got married, it was in 1976. And I had finished my bachelor's degree and master's degree, and I had, you know, been out and been in business and lived on my own and completed two degrees in college. And at that point, I felt like I knew, you know, a little bit about life and knew who I was coming into a relationship. Right. She always knew who she was. She was so much mature than I was going into it. It was astounding. And 45 years later, we get along great.

That's crazy.

Yeah. In this town, it's really crazy.

It's really crazy. When did you know that she was going to be your partner, your wife, your, you know? person in your life?

You know, I was not at all looking to get into a relationship when I met her. I was actually just visiting my parents and she was a friend of my little sister's and she came, I'd had the flu and was kind of stopped over there to kind of recuperate and she came walking through the room. I didn't even know she was in the house. And she came walking through the room, she was there visiting my little sister.

Whoa. How old are you at this time?

I was 23.

Okay.

And 22-23, and she was 19. And very charmingly said, who are you? And she said, well, who are you? and we were there alone and visited for a couple hours and went out the next night. And man, there was something about her from the very beginning.

Wow.

It just, there was something different about her. From the minute I met her, she was, you know, spunky and smart and obviously very easy on the eyes and. But her personality just sparkled like crazy and still does today. I can't spend enough time with her. Wow. After 45 years, isn't that crazy?

Amazing.

Yeah.

What is the thing you love about your wife the most?

Her personality. She has, it's kind of like when we decided, I always had a rule in the family that if we were going to make a big change, it took four yeses and one no. so I had two boys and then Robin and I said, we're going to make a big change. It took four yeses and one no, even though Jordan at the time was like 10, 12, whatever, if we were going to make a change, if anybody said, no, don't want to do it, we'd not do it. So I remember when I came home and we talked about coming to LA and launching Dr. Phil. I'm telling Robin, I said, you know, I talked to Oprah today and she says, you know, it's really time to launch your own show. We're getting an awful lot of mail. Come on, you know, it's really time. I'm telling her that. While I'm telling her, she's like getting boxes and packing shit. She's like, she's got the spirit of adventure. It's like whatever. She's already packing. Yeah, we had a great life. We have a beautiful home on the golf course at Las Colinas in Dallas at the Four Seasons. Wonderful life. Couldn't be better. Kids are in school. She's going great. She's like, oh, really? She's packing her backpack. Really? Like, whatever, man. She's just like, it's a spirit of adventure always. And I love that about her. And she is fiercely loyal. You don't want to criticize her husband or kids.

It would not be fun to be around.

She's 5'2 and 108, but you do not want to. You don't want to pick a fight with her about husband and kids. She's ferocious. I love that about her. Wow. And she's a lot of fun. She got a great sense of humor. And she's a small town girl from Duncan, Oklahoma.

Wow.

You ever been to Duncan, Oklahoma?

Never.

Yeah, well it ain't there and they headed that away. It's a middle. You go another 10 miles and fall off the earth. Yeah, yeah. It's in the middle of nowhere. And she grew up poor like I did. Her dad had a driving range and her job was to, they didn't have a ball picker-upper. She was the ball picker-upper.

She had to go out with a.

Bucket and pick up the balls.

They didn't have the cart with the fence.

No, that was her. She was just picking it up, like, dodging balls. Kaylin would wear a football helmet if they were still hitting.

Oh, wow.

That was her.

So she's, Spirit of Adventure, I love it. Pretty scrappy. I think I saw her in a video somewhere with you a few years ago say that she's never missed an episode of Dr. Phil's show. This was a few, I don't know if this is still the case. 20 years in. 35, 100 episodes almost.

Yeah, we'll hit 3,500 this season.

She's never missed one.

Never missed one.

Oh my goodness.

And she's not just the proverbial audience member. She is one of the foremost ambassadors in the fight against domestic violence in America. She's become our representative in that. And she's testified before Congress on those matters. She's developed an app for escaping those situations that's been honored at the United Nations and on Capitol Hill. I mean, she is very, very Prolific in that arena has a foundation in that regard. She's very, very active in that. She's a go-getter that's amazing. Yeah.

What would you, I'm curious, your three pieces of advice for having a happy, healthy, long marriage? Because a lot of people that stay together a long time, but they're not happy and it's not healthy. And I feel like they still say, well, we've been here for 30 years, but the kids know that they should have got divorced a long time ago.

Yeah.

So what would you say are your three pieces of advice for a happy, healthy, long-term marriage that makes you say, I can't spend enough time with her? And then what would you say is Robin's three pieces of advice? Is it the same or is it different?

Well, I can speculate about hers, but I think one that we share, I know because we've talked about it, and that is you deal with the issues when they come up.

Don't wait for them.

Yeah, people, you know, we people ask us, you know, do we have, you know, big fights and blow ups and stuff like that? And the answer is we don't because we deal with stuff before it gets big. It doesn't mean we don't have disagreements because we certainly do. And but we don't let things build up across time. We don't procrastinate emotionally. We deal with it when it comes up. And I think if you don't ever allow for unfinished emotional business, then you always keep the slate clean. Don't ever let there be unfinished emotional business, because then it builds up and then one thing stacks on top of another and then on another and then on another and resentment really builds out of that.

Sure.

We made a deal early on that we weren't gonna do that.

So you guys have probably never really resented each other because you've always dealt with the challenging stuff when it comes.

Yeah, maybe in the moment, I might have said something where she resented me saying it, but we dealt with it right then and then it was over with. And so I think that's critically important. I think if people would really commit to doing that, I think it would make a huge, huge difference.

What's a way to approach that by starting the conversation if the other partner is always triggered? by the emotional stress or maybe there's some trauma they haven't healed yet or dealt with where they resist it or they just try to lie. Like how do you approach that conversation?

Well, I think the thing to do is you have to talk about that outside of crisis. You don't talk about it when something has gone off in the ditch. You never talk to a drunk about their drinking while they're drunk. They can't talk about it while they're sober. You don't talk about issues and resentment while you're angry with each other. Talk about it while things are calm. And most people think, no, no, no, let sleeping dogs lie. I don't want to bring up an issue when there isn't one. No, that's when you need to talk about it. That's when you need to say, look, while we're getting along, let's make an agreement that if I do something that really gets on your nerves, you will tell me and I promise to you that I will hear you out. And that's the time to talk about it. Don't try to solve problems during crisis. Yes. Make your plan outside of crisis. And I think that's really important. And I think secondly, we have agreed that our objective when we disagree is not to get the other person to agree with us, but to be heard. In fact, you don't even need to respond. I'm gonna tell you how I feel, and you tell me how you feel, and then we'll just walk away and let that sit with the other person. And you know what? If you really love each other, and you really wanna make the other person happy, most of the time you will find a way to get the other person most of what they want. But if your goal is, I'm gonna, you're gonna agree with me, I'm gonna make my point and you're gonna agree with me, then you're making it a win-lose situation. And think about that. Think about when you were in high school and you were playing the Lancers. What were the signs in the hallway? Crush the Lancers, you'll smash the Lancers. Do you really want a win-lose situation with your partner? No. Crush my wife, smash my wife. You don't want a win-lose situation. Let me tell you how I feel. And I just want to be heard. I'll hear what you say and I'll let you be heard. And then let's drop it at that. And then we can come together and talk about it another time. If that's your objective to be heard, it will work itself out. And that has really worked for us. We don't put it on a win-lose situation.

Right.

Because if it's a win-lose, one of us is going to be the loser, and I don't want to be the loser, and I don't want to be married to a loser. Right.

You don't always be winning and then your partner losing every time.

Yeah. Yeah, because if she's a loser, that's where resentment comes from.

Yeah. Okay. So that's number two, right?

Yeah, that's number two. And I think if people will, and that's a hard thing to do. Yes. That's really a hard thing to do because we want to win. We want to make our point.

We want to be right.

Yeah, we do get to be right fighters and we want to be right. And the other thing is, I think we really have to resolve that if somebody has to stop being all of who they are to be half of a couple. Oh, the price is too high.

Oh, my gosh. That's the greatest thing you said, because so many people are inauthentic in their relationships.

This doesn't work. If I got to stop being who I am to be half of the McGraws. Oh. It isn't going to work. And if she's got to stop being who she is to be half of the McGraw couple, it's not going to work. I've told her before because she said, I wish she would be more sensitive. I'm like, no, you really don't.

Wow.

You really don't.

Wow.

You think you do, but you really don't. Because you know what? You didn't marry a cheerleader. You married the middle linebacker.

Right, right, right.

And not that there's anything wrong with a cheerleader. and I mean that. I'm not saying that to be politically correct. There's nothing wrong with a guy that is more effeminate or more emotionally sensitive at all. There's not. But that's not what attracted you to me. Right. And if I became that, that's not who you married. And had I been that and then I became more of a gorilla, that wouldn't be who you married. You married me, and there's a reason you did. You felt safe with me, or there was something about me that you were attracted to. Don't try to change it now. And there have been times where Things went off the rails somewhere and I stood in the gap and she was like, yeah, I'm sure glad you are who you are.

Right? Yeah.

Because there have been times where we've been in situations where I needed to step up and be who I was and she was like, Man, I'm glad I married you.

I'm glad you're the linebacker.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, yeah, okay. But that doesn't mean that you can't evolve across time. Yes. And I think I've learned to be more less cerebral and more emotional across time. Mm-. But you can't ask somebody to stop being all of who they are to be half of the couple.

And what happens if your partner starts asking you to change? Well, as opposed to accepting kind of where you're at.

I have a range.

Yes.

Okay. There's a range where, you know, I'm over here in full chromagnon mode. And there's a range down here where, you know, I can hold the baby and... Right. I remember Jay had to have surgery when he was four weeks old. And I was on staff at that hospital, and so they allowed me to carry him into the operation room. Wow. she'll never forget that image of seeing me walk down the hallway with his little head right here and he was kind of crying and I was carrying him in there and she said that was probably the most tender scene she's ever seen in her life. You know, that was at this end down here. So, you know, you have a range in there. And so, yeah, you can move within that range. That's okay. But that is who I am. You can move within that range, but You don't ask somebody to be somebody they're not. She'll ask me sometimes something like really great will happen. And she'll say, come on, give me something. Give me a happy dance. Give me something. I'm not the kind of person that jumps up and down. He goes, Hey! But inside, I might be going, Yes, this is really great. And it's a great sense of satisfaction to me, but I don't jump up and down and run around in circles. and she'll jokingly say, come on, give me something. And I'll say, I'm very happy about that. She'll say, okay, that's good for you.

She's dancing around and jumping on couches.

Exactly. And my highs don't go real high, my lows don't go real low. Maybe that's boring.

You're like Tom Brady, you know, you're just like, you're consistent.

That's all I have. Accomplish, accomplish. But, you know, I'm not real, I'm more cerebral than emotional. But inside, I've, you know, I've experienced, I'm very happy about it, but I don't run around with my hair on fire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is good, so I don't have much of that.

And what would you say are the three things that Robin would say are the keys to a happy, healthy, long-term thriving marriage or partnership.

Yeah, I think she would say, first off, spending quality time together. I think she really values that quality time and I think she thinks there's just no substitute for that. And by quality time, I mean intimacy, where intimacy being defined as sharing things that you would not share with anybody else on the world, in this world.

Can you give an example of... You.

Know, there are times that she and I spend together, just maybe out on the patio, relaxed and talking where, you know, I have, you know, my guard down, she has hers down where we're, just completely relaxed. We're not on, we're not in any way.

It's not business mode, it's not TV fill, it's not this.

We're not censoring anything, we're just completely relaxed and 100% candid with each other, talking about, you know, life or family or dreams or whatever, things that we just wouldn't share with anybody else. Yeah. And I think that's really important to her that there are things that we would say to each other that we wouldn't say to anybody else because we don't feel safe enough to say it to anybody else. And to me, that's intimacy when you say and do things with that person that you wouldn't say or do with any other person in the world. Not your best friend, not your sister, not your brother. it's just reserved for that. It has nothing to do with romance or sexuality or anything. It has to do with just trust and that uniqueness of that one relationship where it would not happen with another person in the world. And I think she really values that. I know that because she said so. And I think so when I say quality time, that's intimacy time. Yeah, that's what that means.

Okay. And what do you think would be here number two?

Having each other's back no matter what.

Even if the person's wrong.

Even if the person's wrong. And that doesn't mean that privately you might not say, you know, we might modify this situation but publicly or otherwise that there's never a doubt where you stand.

What happens if you don't even for a slight little moment, don't have that person's back in a public or friend setting, let's say.

I don't know.

You never experienced it?

I'm not gonna find out.

Right.

I just, I just, and I've never experienced that with Robin, because that's why I told you a minute ago, you don't want to pick a fight with her by getting sideways with her husband or children. Wow. Because that's, to her, there's family and everybody else.

And.

That'S really core with her.

And.

If you've been raised by an alcoholic, then you understand what I'm talking about. Because when you've been raised by an alcoholic, you've learned that you can't depend on the leader of the family to be there. And when you become the leader of the family, you say that will never happen in my family. Not one minute of one hour of one day will any member of my family ever doubt where I stand.

Wow.

And that is core to her soul.

That's beautiful.

That is core to her soul. That will never happen. That is beautiful. She's been where they've banged on her door at three in the morning. with a bunch of drunk men out there saying her father lost their furniture in a poker game. And they pulled up my truck and wanted their furniture. And she'd seen her mother stand on the porch saying, you,'re not taking our furniture.

Wow. Even if he was wrong, she's not.

Yeah. You're not taking our furniture. Her mother stood in the gap and said, you,'re not taking our furniture. You're not taking my daughter's bed. and she knows what it is to stand by your family. And that's critical to her. That's core to her.

Seems like an amazing woman.

Yeah, she is. That's why I said you don't want to get on the wrong side of her. You don't want to get on the wrong side of her.

And what would you say the third thing is that she would say you think?

I think she would say that you, absolutely recognize that children, I'll put it this way, when you start being parents, you don't stop being wives, husbands and lovers. Just because you start being parents, you don't stop being husbands and wives. And she has been so great about that over the years. The children joined our lives. We didn't join theirs. Wow.

What is the mistake most people make when they have kids?

Well, they really stop focusing on their role as husband or wife, and they start being totally focused on the kids, and they, they stop carving out time for each other. Now, there are going to be times when you do, like when the children are really young and you're up all night, right, you're breastfeeding or changing diapers or You know, dad's getting up every other minute or mom's up every minute and you're surviving those times. I'm talking about across the years.

Yes.

You recognize that those kids come and then they go. And when they go, it's the two of you. And if you haven't known each other for the last 18 years, when they leave, you're gonna be sitting there looking at somebody you used to know. And you don't want that to happen. If you were really great lovers and intimate and best friends 18 years ago, and you haven't been for the last 18 years, and then they go off to college, you're sitting there looking at somebody like, Didn't I used to know you?

Wow.

And I think she would say, you, just don't ever make that mistake. Don't ever let that gap come in there. Now, in short term, of course, you sacrifice for your children whatever it takes for them to flourish and be nurtured and do what you take. But across time, across the years, you remember to nurture that relationship between the husband and wife. You remember that they're going to leave someday and it's going to be the two of you take care of that relationship. So when they leave, you're not sitting there with a stranger.

Some wisdom right there. That's some wisdom right there.

She's talked about that before. That's how I know she would say that.

Right. I'm curious, it seems like.

In this.

Time, it seems like this. Maybe because I'm in LA, I see more of it like this, that it's really hard to find a quality partner that's a great match for you. In general, in the US, I'm speaking, it's hard for people to find a great partner. and stay in a healthy relationship. I've heard people say that 80% of being in a great relationship is picking the right person, is choosing the right person. I'm not sure if you would agree with that. But why do you think it's so hard for people to choose the right partner when we're always choosing something from a pain or from a need or a lack as opposed to a healthy, conscious whole place?

Well, I think it is, you gotta know what you're looking for. And I think, you know, so many people, there's a difference between Mr. Wright and Mr. Right now, Hill, Mrs. Wright and Mrs. Right now. It's, what is it you're, what is it you're looking for? And I think we have to know ourselves to know what we, you know, what we really need. And, Sometimes if we don't really know what's driving us, it may be insecurity and we bring out the worst in each other. I see people all the time on stage where you've got somebody that's really dependent with somebody that's really over controlling and they bring out the worst in each other and they think it's a perfect fit. Oh, we just fit like hand in glove. because she was very passive and he was very dominant and so it just seemed like, wow, what a perfect match. It wasn't a perfect match at all. It was pathological from the get-go. You know, she needed to get a backbone and the last thing she needed was somebody dominant that played into her passivity is the worst thing they could do. You've got to know what is it that's attracting me to this person. Is it a pathological need to be controlled or is it that I really admire this person. You've got to really ask yourself, what is it that's attracting me to this person? Is it somebody that makes me feel safe in the moment, but it's not really what I need? You've got to ask yourself what's driving you in the moment. And a lot of people don't ask that question.

I mean, how do they... If someone has dealt with a lot of, I guess, trauma from their past, is it possible for them to choose a healthy relationship until they heal or start to at least work on that healing process? Or are they always gonna kind of fall into that trap.

Well, I think you're gonna do one or two things. When you enter a relationship, you're either gonna contribute to or contaminate that relationship based on what you bring with you when you show up.

Right.

If you bring a wounded soul, if you bring open wounds, if you bring resentments, if you bring a lot of unfinished emotional business from being cheated on or hurt or abandoned or neglected and you bring all that pain to the relationship, you're going to contaminate that relationship. Or if you've healed all of those things where you come to a relationship saying, I want but don't need a partner, now you're going to contribute to the relationship. So I think if you are really hurt, you gotta heal that hurt before you can go into a relationship and not contaminate it. It's like baggage. You're gonna pick up baggage up and carry it with you and set it down in the relationship or you're gonna empty it out before you go. And I think that's why I think everybody, everybody should do an autopsy on the relationships they've been in before they go to the relationship they're headed towards.

What should they be asking themselves about previous relationships?

What did I do? What did I do to contribute to the demise of that relationship?

Not blaming them, them, them, but... Yeah, they're gone.

They ain't bringing them unless it's a really weird relationship. What did I do to contribute to the demise of this relationship? Was I too passive? Was I too domineering? Was I too suspicious? Was I too naive? Was I What did I do? Even if you were cheated on, even if you were abused, even if you were just completely run over in the relationship, what did you do to contribute to that so you don't do it again? And if you can own whatever role you had in that so you can adjust that and not do it again, then you've got a chance of not repeating those mistakes in this new relationship. You can't do that unless you do an autopsy on the one you've been in.

Sound advice right there. What about questions you should ask someone before you're going to get committed to them, whether that be in a marriage or just an exclusively committed, you know, dating relationship, to know that you're setting yourself up for potentially a good relationship?

Well, you got to know what your deal breakers are. There are deal breakers, right?

Right.

And you're not gonna find a perfect candidate.

Right.

If you find an 80% candidate and the 20% that's not there aren't deal breakers, you can grow the 20% faster than you can find it.

Right, right, right.

Because you can say, well, I'm gonna wait till I find 100%. Well, no, you're better off to take the 80 and grow the 20 or 10 of the 20 or whatever it might be, as long as they aren't deal breakers. And there aren't many deal breakers. Deal breakers are like physical abuse, drug or alcohol abuse, and they won't get treatment for it. They won't, you know, there are those things that if they have some of those things that are just non-negotiable, that if you were in the relationship and those things occurred, you would leave. Then don't get in to start with. If there's somebody that's gonna hit you, don't get in. Because if you were in it and they did, you would leave. So that's a deal breaker, don't get in. But you've got to decide, what are your deal breakers? If you are on this earth, Robin believed she was put on this earth to be a mother. If I was absolutely 100% committed in this life to not have children, that'd be a deal breaker. That'd be a deal breaker.

Yeah, I'm right.

She should know that up front. That wasn't the case, but had it been, she would want to know that. If her father was a bad alcoholic like mine, and she said up front, I will never marry a man that drinks. And as it turned out, I was committed to not being a drinker because of what my dad had demonstrated to me. And we were kind of fated in that regard. Did you drink? Actually, I don't. I'm sorry. I thought she wanted to go out drinking. I was just telling her the truth. I'm not your guy. If you want to go clubbing, I ain't your guy. I thought I was giving her the wrong answer. And she said, oh, okay. Little did I know that was the right answer. But you got to know what your deal breakers are. And, you know, aside from that, you got to see if there's compatibility. If it feels right, there's got to be chemistry.

Right.

There's got to be chemistry. If there's not chemistry, you can't, you can't grow chemistry. That's there. That's either there or it's not. I don't care. I don't care if he's the most handsome guy in the world or she's the most gorgeous girl in the world. If there's not chemistry, that won't grow. You'll know that right up front.

Right.

And that's the way it is for some people. You look like James Bond and for some girl it's like, yeah, it must be.

That okay, yeah. What would you say is a non-negotiable for you both in your marriage on a daily basis? we get up and say we love each other in the morning or we give each other a hug every day or a kiss or is there like a non-negotiable we talk about what we're grateful for every night. Is there something you guys do that is automatic to support the growth and the quality of the relationship? Something small or big. We go on a trip every, you know, out of the.

Well, I can say it on both sides. Yeah. And this comes to my mind because I Talked about it with a couple today. In almost 50 years of being with Robin, I've never called her a name or cussed at her, nor has she ever at me. Really? Not ever, never, ever.

That's inspiring.

Let me tell you, there are some women, and I'm talking about Robin like she's scary and she's not.

She seems like a sweetheart.

I mean, she is. She's on my phone.

She's always smiling when I see her in videos of her.

She's just a, you know, absolute doll.

And.

You can see looking at her, that's not a posed picture, it's just her in the back of a helicopter.

But.

There are some women you just look at and you say, would you ever call her a name?

No.

Some women just don't, you just look at them and say, no, no, it's like, Wow. You just wouldn't ever do that. Nor would she be. She's never one time. This is something we just don't do.

50 years and never called each other a name.

Not one time.

That's incredible.

Really?

I mean, I don't know many relationships where they're not, when they're in an argument saying, well, you're this and this.

No, no, no, it's not even been close.

That's beautiful. That's inspiring.

Well, maybe, but it's just never even.

Been, Wow, that's beautiful.

I've never even bit my tongue. It never even occurred to me to call her a name.

That's amazing.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a very violent household.

Right, right.

I had three sisters and they were in violent marriages and my parents were in a violent marriage and it was just something I just would never do. That's just not. Yeah. This is something that I could not accept myself doing.

You want to be proud of yourself?

I could not accept that from myself.

Okay. So that's one of the non-negotiables.

I can't think of a time I've ever called a woman a name.

Wow.

That's great. Ever. I might have turned and walked off, but that's just not something That you do.

Right, right.

I mean it's part of being from the South. You still do that.

Yeah, of course.

You just don't do that. And my sons, if I've never heard my sons speak of a woman in a derogatory way.

That's beautiful.

Then they better not. Right.

You know, whooping.

I just don't think you do that.

Yeah, okay.

But that's beautiful.

I mean, I just hear of a lot of, marriages that are, you know, struggle and there's name calling or frustrations and it's just like that probably doesn't help develop more love.

Well, you know, John Gottman is, I don't know if you've heard- Gottman Institute? Yeah.

Yeah.

He talks about the four horsemen and, you know, those are the things that predict divorce in a relationship and, you know, that sort of thing, name calling. is one of those things. It's defensiveness and stonewalling and aggression. All those things that you get into that have to do with character assassination is one of those things that if you see people doing that, you can predict the demise of that relationship.

How does someone heal and get to a place of healing in a relationship? if they one or all four of these things are happening, is it possible to come back and love each other more than ever, or is that kind of hard to come back from?

Well, I think there's power in forgiveness. I think you have to step back and label these things and say, Look, here's what we're doing. And this creates wounds. This creates pain. that it's real hard to recover from and we need to acknowledge that and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And if you can get a couple to acknowledge that and stop doing it and hold themselves to a higher standard of communication, then yeah, you can heal those, but you've got to be willing to forgive what has happened in the past and forgiveness isn't a feeling. It's a choice. Most people think that it's an emotion, it's a feeling that you've got to wait for this feeling of forgiveness to fill your heart. That's not true. It's a choice. You choose to forgive the person. It doesn't mean you forget. But you choose to forgive them for what they've done and forgive yourself for what you've done. But it does do any good to forgive it on Monday if you turn around and do it again on Tuesday. So that means you've got to forgive it and then hold yourself to a higher standard. And so, okay, instead of this contemptuous behavior that I show and calling names and assassinating their character, what am I going to do instead? How am I going to express my emotions in a less destructive way. And when you do that, then, wow, you say, this didn't last for two weeks. It lasted for 15 minutes.

Right.

And now we're having dinner. Wow. Right. And then we had a nice evening and we were even laughing and maybe had a sexual encounter that night and that had momentum in the next day and gee, we're turning this worm, you know?

Turning it around.

Yeah.

Is there anything else that's, you know, you do on a daily basis that you always do that's a consistent, you know, for you as a non-negotiable in your marriage?

You know, I think it's, we don't ever, even if we're traveling, we don't ever go a day without making eye contact. And to me, eye contact is something that has really, really fallen away. Yeah, it's powerful.

Especially the phone's just like this, right?

Yeah. And I've, yeah, I say I've played football in grade school, junior high, high school, college, and then raced motocross for a long time and my elbows are really bad and I can't button this button on my shirt. I can try to do it with one hand, it takes forever. So forever, Robin always has to do this button on my shirt. So every day that I have to change suits twice a day and all that, so Robin always buttons this button. and stuff like that. So at least twice a day, she's always right here doing that button. And every time she does, we make eye contact right there when she's doing that button. And she will tell you that that's a special quiet moment every day when she buttons that button and makes eye contact. Nobody knows what's going on, but that's. a private moment twice a day when she knows my button and puts that on.

What happens if in those moments you're maybe distracted or preparing for the next show that's coming out, are you just like frantic, you're eating something, you know, it's just like the producers are in your ear, how do you stay focused and present in those moments?

When she's doing that? Yeah, when she's... You can't be that close to her and look her in the eye and be distracted. She's like, okay, you're just there. Yeah, yeah. You'd have to know she'll get your attention.

Yeah, so by the way, she'll do something. That's beautiful, eye contact. I think people have lost the art of eye contact, like you said. It's something that I love to talk about and love to, I almost love to be awkwardly looking people in the eyes to see, can they look at you back, you know, whether it be in an intimate relationship or a friend. I do this with hugs as all also. I hug people for a really long time to see like, okay, can they be intimate and connected or is it uncomfortable for them?

I've got a new show on CBS, a new primetime series called House Calls with Dr. Phil. the first thing that I've done with a lot of these couples that are in such dire straits is just have them stand up and make eye contact. And you would be astounded at the difference it makes when I make them stand there and make eye contact.

What happens when they do that? Just for a few seconds? The minutes is that?

No, I'll make them stand there, make eye contact. and I have them, the first one I did, I had them make eye contact and really hold it way past the point of comfort and then say one of four things. I trust you, I don't trust you, I don't know if I trust you or I'd rather not say.

And what usually happens?

Real powerful moment.

Wow. These are people married.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And in the first episode, her son had died from a drug overdose and she blamed her husband for cutting him off.

Mm. And.

They really hadn't touched in two years. Oh man. And In that moment, they hadn't really looked at each other and she looked him in the eye and just totally broke down and collapsed in his arms and said, Of course I trust you. What have I been thinking? Wow. Just in the first 30 seconds of that episode. Just making eye contact brought him back to, what am I doing?

Why do you think we're so afraid to connect in the eyes?

Intimacy.

I could talk to you for many hours about this and hopefully I can have you back on sometime in the future, Dr. Phil, but I want to ask a final few questions to wrap things up. And again, thank you for your time and all of your years of wisdom. Very relatable and I think this relationship section specifically is going to be powerful for a lot of people. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the Three Truths. It's a hypothetical question. I'd like you to imagine that you get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but eventually it's your last day. And you continue to accomplish all of your dreams and have the relationships you want to have. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, all of your content has to go somewhere else. It's not here on earth anymore. So all of your shows, your videos, your books, this podcast, it's gone for whatever reason. But you have three lessons you get to share with the world. I call it three truths. The three things you would kind of leave behind as lessons for people to live by. What would you say would be those three truths for you?

I think number one would be you get one bite at this apple. It's no dress rehearsal. So don't, don't waste time. Because I do think we, like I said, let days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, and then we look back and say, you know, where did it all go? This is not a dress rehearsal. So, you know, grab on. And, and, and make the most of it. And I think secondly, I think people really struggle with that existential crisis of feeling emptiness at different stages in their life. And I would tell people, When you feel that emptiness, the best way to fill it is to give away that which you need the most.

Ooh. Yes.

If you're feeling lonely, find someone that you can see and tell is more lonely than yourself. and give them what you need. We've been through this quarantine. There are people, you know, maybe it's an elderly person living in your apartment building or down on the corner, and you know they're alone, you know they don't have family, and you're sitting there and you're feeling disconnected and alone and empty, Go give to that person, knock on their door, back up six, 12 feet and say, hey, I know you're here by yourself and I'm on the way to the store, can I pick something up from you and leave it on the front porch? You probably don't want to give me your cell phone number, but here's mine. If you would like to FaceTime and talk or if you're mowing your yard, just keep going across your driveway and mow theirs. Give away what you need the most. Promise you it will fill you up faster than anything you can do. Give away what you need. It will heal you faster than anything you could ever imagine.

Okay, that's number two. Number three.

I would tell people to really be your own best friend. You know, we judge people really harshly. but we don't realize how harshly we judge ourselves. And, you know, I had the privilege of being friends with Maya Angelou before she passed. And, you know, she's known for being such a great poet and all, but she was also a really good, good woman and had a great sense of humor and was a lot of fun. She said something one time that really struck me. And she said, you did what you knew how to do. And when you knew better, you did better. And I think that really describes the human experience. I think we do the best we know how to do at the time. And when we know better, we do better. I say that to heroin addicts. They say, I'm a piece of s*** heroin addict. You're doing the best you can today. When you know better, you'll do better. We've got to cut ourselves some slack. We need to be our own best friend and not judge ourselves so badly. When we have more tools, we have more coping skills, we'll do better. Just don't give up. I'm the incurable optimist. I truly am. And I think this human race is going to be okay. I know right now we're not getting along as a society and we're divided. People say, oh, it's the worst division we've ever had. I guess they forget about the Civil War.

Right.

They might kill everybody. I just tell everybody, don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah. You're doing the best you can. If you want to do better, learn better.

Right. That's beautiful. Yeah. I want to acknowledge Dr. Phil for the decades of service you've had to so many people from one-on-one to millions every day now. and even beyond that on the internet now to even tens of millions every day with your videos and your content that's being spread viral. The fact that you continue to show up, you continue to learn and continue to serve for me is an inspiring model of how to be a human being. So I really want to acknowledge you for helping really raise a lot of people when they were 8, 10, 12 that are now parents 20 years later. that are helping raise their kids with your same content and evolving it. And I just really appreciate the example you set for the level of service that you have on so many people. It means a lot.

Well, I appreciate your saying that. I truly try to be a good steward of this platform. I think it's a privilege to have this platform. And I think when you're given that platform, it comes with a lot of responsibility. I kind of have a shoot from the hip delivery style and you know I speak in colloquialisms and stuff sometimes and I think sometimes people might not realize how seriously I take the stewardship of that platform. because I have kind of a relaxed way of dispensing the information I dispense. But I take it very, very seriously. Yeah. And we have an advisory board at Dr. Phil that's made up of the top minds in psychology, psychiatry, medicine, sociology, theology. You know, they're from the top learning centers in the country. These are the people that are the editors of the peer review journals and stuff that if I have a complex case, I can send it to them and we consult on it. And so I can give only evidence-based advice and stuff. And I think people don't realize how much goes into the information that I put out because I have a kind of relaxed way of Of doing it. I think it betrays how much preparation goes into it sometimes.

I think the greatest of all time make everything look effortless because they spend decades of preparation and hours before every game or every play really preparing so that it is relaxed feeling in a sense.

Robin told Oprah told me one time she said the biggest problem you'll ever have is you make it look too easy.

You're just like nonchalantly sharing this wisdom.

She said, you make it look too easy and it betrays how hard you work at it. I didn't know what she meant at the time, but I think after 20 years, I realized maybe that's true. Maybe I should sweat more.

In your 20th season now, Dr. Phil that can watch it on TV. You're also all over the internet now on YouTube and this massive TikTok sensation. If you guys haven't subscribed over on YouTube and TikTok and fill in the blanks, the podcast is incredible. You're an amazing interviewer and you have stories on so many incredible people that are your friends that you get to bring on. You know, the Oprah interview and Jay Leno and all these other people, incredible stories so they can subscribe there. I'm not sure if you're doing that.

Right now consistently, if you're on a pause for that, but I was just I started it back up and I'm getting ready to.

So good.

I'm getting ready to start doing a series on different personality disorders.

Oh, wow.

How to handle like the narcissistic personality and borderline personality and some of those.

That'll be powerful.

People that drive us crazy.

That'll be powerful. So you've got that, you've got this new show House Calls, right? Right. What else can we support, subscribe to, be a part of?

Well, I hope everybody watches Bull. Bull is on Thursday nights on CBS at 10. That's based on my life before Dr. Phil.

Wow, okay.

And we're in our sixth season. Michael Weatherly stars as Dr. Bull. And we've had great fun with that. We've got that animal rescue show on CBS All Access and the Doctors and Daily Mail TV and we've got lots of shows out there.

Your machine. You've created that amazing model that's fun for me to watch and see as I'm building my career. So, I'm gonna keep watching and keep admiring what you're creating. It's really cool to see how you've built and reinvented and given platforms to so many other people as well.

Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Of course, of course. I have my final question before you run. What's your definition of greatness?

To me, I think greatness has to do with being able to go home at the end of the day and feel like you have had a genuine impact on someone's life besides your own. I think if you can say I did something today that impacted the human experience, then that's a great thing to have done. Doesn't matter what fact it had on you, but if you've helped someone else on their journey, I think that's a great thing to do. No matter what effect it had on you, if you lifted somebody else up, I think God would smile on that.

Yeah. There you go, Dr. Phil. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. I am such a fan of everything Dr. Phil had to say in this episode, in this interview, and I wanted to do a recap of my thoughts and how I think about some of the things he shared and add my two cents as well. I love Dr. Phil's three pieces of advice about how to have a happy marriage. The first one was to deal with the issues when they come up and not to wait. Don't let there be unfinished emotional business so that you can avoid resentment. I think that's huge. Again, I speak for myself for... I never liked waiting to have these challenging conversations. When there was something that was off, I always wanted to talk about them now. I didn't like to wait like seven hours because then I'm ruminating on these things and thinking about it. I'm like, let's just have this conversation and at least get to a place of peace. Maybe we don't resolve it, but we're at least in the conversation saying we're going to talk more about it as well later. It's when there's no communication, it's when there's the passive aggressive energy, that's when things start to get harder. Make sure you have the uncomfortable conversations as soon as quickly as possible. This is a... I feel like it's an art and a science. You've got to build up this kind of resiliency to uncomfortable conversations. And it's not easy. It's not easy. That's why most people don't have them because it's frustrating, it's uncomfortable. So focus on practicing this. Just like, okay, is there anything we need to talk about today? The more you practice it, the easier it becomes. Number two he said was, don't make it about winning an argument. Make it about listening and being heard. Something that I've learned through a lot of the therapists and relationship coaches that we've had on here is that it should not be about I'm right or you're wrong. It should be about not making each other wrong. But there is a problem. I'm not the problem, you're not the problem. There is a problem. How can we work together as a partnership to find a solution to this problem? and working together as opposed to you're right, I'm wrong, you're wrong, I'm right. This type of aggressive winning mentality, losing mentality, it's more okay, there's something happening. How can we both shift and take our guards down and say how are we going to come together to be a solution and to find the solution to this challenge? I think that's for me something that I really try to apply as opposed to man, what you did was really wrong. not saying, okay, here's how I'm feeling about this situation. There's a situation, but you both need to be on the same page about this. There should be a ground rule that you talk about. When there is a conflict in our relationship, because there will be something, can we both agree to not combat each other, but agree to work together to find a solution to this challenge or obstacle in our way? And if you can both agree to that, then you can say, okay, listen, we're starting to have a little argument here, and we shouldn't argue. We should be having a conversation to find an agreement on a solution to this challenge. You're going to be much stronger in the process of building that relationship. Number three, he said, if you have to stop being your full self to be half of a couple, then it's just not right.

So.

I'm a big believer that you should become more of yourself when you're in the right relationship. that your partner should be wanting you to be fully expressed, to expand yourself. Why be in a relationship where you must shrink yourself to make the other person comfortable? You should be wanting the other person to thrive, to grow, to flourish, to build, to create, to become more expressed because you are a confident person that trusts your partner and they are a confident person that trusts you. and once you do the same. If you're in a rela, I don't know if you've ever felt this where you've been in a relationship where someone didn't want you to be more of yourself. It's exhausting. It's draining. It's like walking on eggshells. It's stressful. It's all these different things. So you want to become more of that person that you already are. A question that was asked is why is it more crucial to handle issues head on in relationships rather than to let them build up? and Dr. Phil said that this is one of the secrets to his marriage and lasting so long. I think it's important to do a check-in every day. You know, every night I'm checking in in my relationship and saying, Hey, is there anything we need to talk about? Is there anything off? What are you grateful for? This check-in, it can be a couple of moments or minutes. It doesn't have to be long. Just to keep the things fresh and every night go to bed clean energy. Another question is if someone is in the wrong relationship, but afraid to leave it because everything will change, what advice would you give them? Oh my goodness. I have been in that situation a handful of times. When I was in a relationship, I loved the person, had this, you know, had built something with this person for a year, a couple of years. or more with different people. And I remember thinking, Man, I just want to make this work. I don't want to get out of this relationship, but I knew it was the wrong fit. It wasn't the right alignment. It wasn't the right partner. But I was afraid because I knew there would be pain. I knew there would be upset. I knew there would be grief, loss on both sides. I knew we'd have to unwind, you know, whether it be living together or friendships or just different things, projects working on together, it's not an easy thing. It's extremely hard. And ending a relationship is not fun, no matter whether it's the right thing to do or a scary thing or whatever it might be, it's just not a fun thing. But you got to ask yourself, is this the type of life that I want to live? And I'm a big believer that you don't end a relationship personally until you know you've given it everything you've got personally. And maybe at the end of the day you realize it's not the right person and you made a mistake by choosing the beginning without asking the tough questions, without asking what your non-negotiables are, without asking your values, your vision, and your lifestyle. And maybe you did that and that's on you and you got to take ownership on that. So I'm a big believer in and creating that conversation when, if things are going wrong and getting back to that place. Maybe you didn't do that in the beginning of the relationship, but you can do that year one, year two, year three still if things are not aligned and say, Hey, I know we're struggling right now. Let's start having the uncomfortable conversations now to get us on a good place. Let's go to therapy now together to have mediation and a neutral party who's a trained expert to support us in finding alignment now. For me, that's what I've always done. I've always been committed to, you know, working on myself, finding ways to improve the relationship, going to therapy if needed because I think it's great. I think it's really helpful to have. If you're unable to have the hard conversations together, then find someone to mediate those hard conversations for you and find tools and strategies to work together with your own healing journeys on this process together. Not everyone knows how to heal right away. We don't all have the tools early on in their life. And so this is not to say that everyone is going to have this ability right away. We might have triggers, we might have responses and reactions to certain things. Therapy can give you the tools or go to a workshop together or get some books together and really start to work on these things together. But I think for me, I've always said, Okay, if this is not the right relationship, I want to make sure 100%. We're gonna go to therapy, I'm gonna do the workshops, books, whatever you tell me to do. I want to become better, but it's got to be both ways. Do we fully accept one another for who we are? Can I accept that person, their values, their vision, their lifestyle, and can they accept me? If we can't, then what are we doing? If we're both shrinking each other to fit into some box, that's not a lasting loving, filling, growth filled relationship in my mind. That is a relationship where you both are afraid to have authentic conversations and live your authentic power and you keep each other playing small. So what are the, what do I view as the non-negotiables in my relationship? Dr. Phil talked about this in the interview where he said, never call each other names ever. I think this is a big one. If you're texting something negative to your partner, if you're expressing it with your words in front of them or over the phone and calling them names, this just builds such resentment. And you would never really do this with someone you love in your family or a close friend. You wouldn't call them names, you wouldn't call them bad words. you want to text them nasty things. Maybe you have a disagreement with your best friend every now and then or something, but you're not really calling each other names. That's just not what healthy conscious people do. You can disagree, but a healthy conscious person wouldn't be saying you suck and you're this and I hate you and all these different things. That's just not a healthy conscious conversation. That is someone who's speaking from a wound, that is lashing out and trying to defend themselves. So never call each other names ever. It doesn't mean you're not going to be upset and angry, but you've got to check in with yourself and make sure that you don't cross those boundaries. Another one is never go a day without making eye contact. If you're in a long distance relationship and living in a digital world and all these things, it may be hard if you're traveling and traveling for work. to not be able to see each other, but being on FaceTime if you can, or Zoom or whatever it might be, I think is powerful. And whether it's eye contact or a phone call, I think the more you can spend time looking in each other's eyes, the more connected you'll be. And he shared a great example of how his wife comes to him with the Dr. Phil show every single day and looks him in his eyes and puts his shirt on and and puts his tie on and things like that. Creating those moments on a daily basis where you connect in the eyes is a powerful way to check in with yourself and your partner. What do you ask yourself before getting into a new relationship? I've spoken about this in previous episodes where I didn't ask myself the right questions in previous relationships. I leaned on the wrong things early on. I've talked about this in another episode where I I leaned on in the four elements of a relationship, the spiritual, the mental, emotional and the sexual. I leaned on the sexual side first, the attraction side, the desire, the chemistry side first of, oh, I like the way this is and this feels and this thing, the way I think about this person sexually, as opposed to spiritually. So I think leaning on the spiritual side first is really the key to start asking yourself, if I didn't have sex with this person, would I want to hang out with them? Honestly, would I want to have a conversation with them consistently? Would I want to spend eight hours a day with them? Would I want to sleep next to them if I wasn't able to add the sexual element into our relationship? I'm not saying you shouldn't be having sex and create that element in your relationship. I'm saying, would you want to spend a lot of quality time with this person? if you didn't have sex with them or for six months in the beginning you didn't have sex or for three months, whatever it might be. And if the answer is yes, I would still love to spend quality time with this person, then I feel like, okay, this could be a potential great fit for you. Not saying it will be the right fit, but there's now a space to see if there's alignment without the chemical bonds that are making you desire and more addicted to the sexual element than the spiritual element. What are the difficult conversations you've found helpful to have early on in the relationship to make sure it's a good fit? One, do you want to get married at some point? What's your views on marriage? Two, do you want to have kids in a family? Three, what is your standard of a relationship? What is your values, vision and lifestyle? These are some conversations that I think. Another one is, what is your expectation? Do you like to travel a lot? Do you like to spend time with your family a lot? What is your expectation around what you want me to do with your family? What is your expectation around money? Do you expect me to pay for everything? Do we do things 50/50? Do we do things 50/50 until marriage and then you pay 80% of everything? Having these conversations around family, lifestyle activities, values, vision, around money, around marriage, around kids, having those conversations are so important because the sexual attraction and chemistry that usually bonds people early on They start to overlook those conversations because they just think, wow, this person is amazing. It feels great to be around them. We're having such a great time. Let's just keep it going and you forget to have those conversations. And then six months, a year, two years comes around and you say, and your partner says, where are we heading? Where are we going in this relationship? What's our vision? What do you want? What do I want? And you start to say, well, I don't want this. but we've just built a year or two years of a life together. But now we want different things. What are we doing? And then we try to make it work and then people make concessions and sacrifices that they didn't want to. And they try to stay in something that wasn't maybe the right alignment from the start. So know what your vision, your deal breakers are. Know what you desire, what you want in your life. and delay the gratification from the sexual element for as long as you can so you can have those conversations so you can get clarity. Again, I think the sexual element clouds clarity. And if someone says their values, their vision, their lifestyle, money and all these different things and they tell you one thing, but then six months, 12 months later, they change their mind, then that is a big red flag. If they change their mind about a lot of these things, then that is a big red flag. If one of these things evolves over time and they evolve it, they adjust it, that's different. But if all their things start to change all of a sudden, then that may not be the person you want to make things work with. And I also love during the interview when I asked Dr. Phil about what he thinks his wife would say that are her three pieces of advice for a happy marriage. And he said that his thought is that she would say spending quality time with each other, having intimate time together, and speaking to each other candidly and sharing things you'd never say in front of anyone else. I think that's really cool because you're creating this kind of like relationship and this language and this intimacy with each other that you probably don't talk about with other people. And it's creating this unique bond, this unique spiritual, emotional, mental connection that allows you to build that chemistry, that trust, that respect for one another, and through sharing vulnerabilities. And I think that's really a key in relationship is being vulnerable with one another and opening up about certain things that maybe you don't talk about with friends or family or publicly. The second thing he said is having each other's back no matter what, even if you think the person is wrong. This is a big one, huge one. Because no one wants to look like an idiot out in the world and then their partners say you're an idiot in front of other people. No one wants that. You might be a massive idiot. You may have been completely wrong and off and saying the wrong things and doing something that wasn't okay. But then being shamed for it in front of other people by your partner is probably got to be one of the worst feelings to feel. You already feel bad, right? You're already doing something that you don't want to be doing. Or maybe you don't think you're doing something wrong, but having your partner who's supposed to have your back shame you or make fun of you or criticize you in front of other people, I think that starts to crack away at the foundation of the relationship. So even if the person is wrong, I'm not saying you need to defend this person at all ends in front of other people, but you shouldn't be bringing them down, is my opinion. And I think you can be a stand, you can be a neutral support and have their back in a neutral way without shaming them or making them wrong in front of other people. And then behind closed doors, you can say, listen, I've always got your back, but I always tell you how I feel and I give you my honest opinion and truth. as well. And I love you and I want the best for you. But what I witnessed and my experience of what happened was you were out of integrity here. You did this wrong. This wasn't the best way to approach this or you reacted here. And that's not really a healthy way to do something. So it's figuring out a way to communicate from a healthy way. This is another level of consciousness, a conscious healthy relationship is at this level. A unconscious relationship is blame and shame and make wrong and guilt and all these different things, and especially in front of a group of other people. That is not the way you communicate with someone, especially if you're building a partnership. So I like that having someone's back no matter what. I think also I would add behind closed doors one-on-one, you loving them fully by giving your honest feedback. and saying, Hey, listen, you know I love you and I always got your back, but there's some ways we can approach this moving forward because you've told me this is your values, this is your vision, this is your mission you're headed on as a human being, and that didn't fit your mission based on what you told me. So I think we need to clear on those things, then you can hold each other accountable as well. Number three, just because you become a parent doesn't mean you stop being a husband or a wife. This is massive. I think the relationships that I've studied from friends of mine who've been together for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, all of them who are happy and successful put each other first. Yes, their kids are a main priority, but they make time for each other. The kids are going to be gone at some point, 18, 20 years or whatever, they're going to be gone. So if you've neglected your partnership for 20 plus years to always put other people before yourselves or at least on the same level where hey, we give each other date nights, weekly, we spend intimate time together every single day, we're always connecting, we put a time for each other. If you're always saying, you know what, our relationship doesn't matter at all for 10 minutes a day to give each other some time because what matters more is these kids, then what are you gonna, why would it matter in 20 years? If you're not cultivating an environment of love, of connection, of intimacy, then that environment starts to die. You've got to be willing to cultivate that husband and wife, married couple partnership.

First.

And be there for your children as well and be there for your friends and your activities. that's got to be a big thing first. So I love these kind of three points that Dr. Phil said he thinks his wife would make as mainstays for a healthy relationship. And I hope you enjoy my reflections on those as well. If you guys enjoyed this, make sure to leave a comment on the YouTube video below. And if you want more reflections from me on the topics of relationships, then leave a relationships below or or leave your thoughts on having me share more about this. And if you're listening over on Apple Podcast or Spotify, make sure to click the subscribe button, send me a message over on Instagram DM or post this on your stories and let me know if you want more information from me about my thoughts on relationships. I appreciate you guys and I'll see you in the next episode. Generosity in a relationship is very important, right? It's not just giving money, but it's also giving your energy, giving your time.

To the other person. So a lot of a classic turn off that men will do is that they're not so generous.