Give Me 96 Minutes & I'll Delete Your Fear of Failure | Dan Martell

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I was so scared, bro. I was like sitting on the ground with the gun under my chin. My thumb was on the trigger and I just couldn't push it.

Yeah, man.

I just wanted to stop.

He is a serial entrepreneur, an investor, and a bestselling author of the book Buy Back Your Time. We have the inspiring Dan Martell in the house.

The things that happen to us that hurt us the most are the most powerful tools that we have to help other people. I think sometimes when we're in the thick of it, that bottom is a great foundation to build from, but it's also proof that God is the rock at the bottom.

What is the mindset that someone needs to overcome this feeling of rock bottom and overwhelm to finally step into their abundance. I wish I understood this sooner, and you kind of alluded to it, but Dan, I'm excited about this because I've known you for, I think, a decade and a half now. 2008, 2009.

Yeah.

I don't think a lot of people know who just see the highlight reels of you and just see the short content of your success. And the private jet and the millions of dollars and the, you know, the AI mastery that you have, that back in your teens, in your early 20s, you were a drug addict, you were alcoholic, you went to jail, you had a lot of issues, a lot of mental issues that consumed you to thinking that you weren't lovable, that you weren't enough, that you'd never amount to anything, to the point where you almost took your life. And It's hard for people. It's hard for me to know that because I've known you for so long and I know the positive attitude you have, the discipline you have now, the habits you have, and the love for life you have. But for those that don't know about that, why do you think you got to such a dark place in your life where drugs, alcohol, attempted suicide became the norm and going to jail became the norm? Rather than living a life of I'm deserving of love, I'm deserving of peace, I'm deserving of a beautiful life.

You got to do— you got me going already. With the, with the benefit of perspective, because God knew I could do it. You know, I think sometimes when we're in it, in the thick of it, and we hit we can call it rock bottom. You know, you've heard this. It's just like that bottom is a great foundation to build from, but it's also proof that God is the rock at the bottom. You know, all these things you just said about me feels kind of like, who is he talking about? But it's like, bro, because I go back to Dan, who's 14, 15, I was angry. I had a lot of shame, made a lot of bad decisions. I didn't feel worthy of any affection, love. And when I look at that kid and the life I live now, it's like I feel so blessed, bro. Yeah. Like, dude, this is what I hope everybody Hears this, that no matter what you go through, if you choose, and it sounds cliché, if you, if you choose, and this is what you write about, and that's why I love your books, is to grow through it, not just go through it and just pull out the lesson. I'm just— this is all I am. And you've seen me for 15 years. I'm just an example of making mistakes because I, I am human. So human. But at 17, I learned that as long as you take a lesson from that moment and then just try never to repeat it, that's, that's the like, hey, let's just— I call it new mistakes.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, there's new mistakes.

I, I get I'm, I'm gonna make more. Let's just make new. But I know that I went through that So I could be the dad for my kids.

Really?

Oh yeah, dude. I am— I, I'm not emotional because it's sad. I'm emotional because I'm grateful. I am grateful that, that Mike's mom wouldn't let me play with him and made me stand at the end of their long driveway. And not every time I called she would pick up, hang up, pick up, hang up because you wanted to hang out with the kid.

And she knew that you were not a good— you were not a good, you know, uh, and rightfully she should have.

I would have honored— I would—

you would, of course.

But that and, and other examples of people that didn't believe in me, that was— that's what— again, God doesn't put us through stuff that he doesn't know we can handle. He just won't do it. Now, you might not realize this should be your rock bottom and you need to dig a little deeper until you feel like that's a challenge. I get the call. The parents are dealing with the kid like, hey, you got to let him feel right now. Like, nobody wants to call me when their kid's in it. No, because, like, you don't want to hear what I think. Yeah, I think you should let him stay in jail and don't bail him out this time, because if not, here's my— and that's what I tell the parents. If not, you're going to get him out and he's going to make a bigger mistake.

Yeah.

And he might end up taking somebody else's life and it's your fault. Ooh, mom, dad. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I was at a gas station the other day and a friend of mine asked me to talk to his buddy because his kid was going through stuff and I went off on his dad, said, if you go get him, this is the third time he's been arrested. If you go get him, I'm holding you accountable. Wow.

What do you feel like was the root of you going down that destructive path in your teens?

So it's funny, people hear the story, they read my book, and they might have heard me tell a more kind of like detailed version. And they go, well, I didn't go through that, but— and I always— I get it.

It's—

but it's not the thing you went through. It's how you felt about what it was, how you interpreted it. Yeah. So when you ask that question, yes, yes, yes, yes. And everything. So I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 11. So immediately I told myself a story. You're broken. Now, my parents didn't mean to make me feel that way, but that's what I told myself because I was given this pill that if I didn't take, I acted out at school and they'd have to come get me. And then, then I learned just through circumstances that, you know, you know, my dad wasn't around a lot because he was trying to provide for a family of four. So he was in sales and he was traveling, he's on the road a lot. You know, I couldn't appreciate that until I was an adult and have my own kids. And I learned that if I acted up at home, my mom had to call my dad. So as a kid that misses dad, I correlated that if I just acted up, dad shows up. Yeah, that might not have been the attention I wanted, But it got the attention. And then, you know, that's like 11, 13. Then, you know, I end up making some bad decisions and get taken out of my home and put into a group home. And then I got spending time with people that were twice my age. And now I'm exposed to concepts and ideas that no 13-year-old at the time— I learned— I turned 13 in a group home with people like Shane, who was I kind of look at back then as a big brother, was 17.

Wow.

And he'd been to juvenile detention 3 times by 17, teaching me about life. Probably not a good role model.

Yeah.

So it was just a lot of that, man.

But when was the moment that you felt like you wanted to end it all? Like, was there a moment you were like, I don't want to live anymore? And this life is not for me and I'll never amount to anything.

Yeah. Well, there's the one I wrote about in my book that, you know, where I stole a car and got a high-speed chase.

And did you run into your house or something?

Or— I ended up crashing into a house and I went for the gun. That's actually not— that was the byproduct of what happened.

You went for the gun, but it didn't go off, right?

Yes. But what nobody knows— I never share this version. You asked, and I've known you 15 years, so I'm going to tell you. Stuff that I don't talk about because you asked very specifically that you wanted to end it all. 2 weeks prior, what happened was I essentially, you know, again, I'm not like massive shame. I didn't tell anybody this story. You were there the first time I ever told it for 15 years. But I end up doing a break and enter, stole a bunch of guns. My mom found the guns and called the cops. So my brother says, hey, don't come home. Cops are waiting for you. So I go on the run.

How old are you?

15, 16. And the only place I knew to go was my buddy Scott. His parents had a cabin. We'd been to it in the summer and I knew where it was. It was the middle of nowhere. He's not there.

Yeah.

And there's food and there's stuff, you know, it's just like hunting camp. So I went there and there was a gun there and I was probably there for 3 days. And I just remember on the 4th day, I grabbed the rifle, some bullets. I went for a walk and I was like, it was, it was next to a national park. So it was like super quiet, super majestic. And I walked down this long hill and I just sat in the field and I loaded the gun. I was so scared, bro. I was like sitting on the ground with the gun under my chin. My thumb was on the trigger and I just couldn't push it. Really? Yeah, man. I just wanted to stop. And I just remember thinking, like, who would find me? How much pain it would cause. And the truth, I didn't want to die, man. I just wanted it to stop. I wish there was like a button I could hit and just like reset everything.

And what did you want to stop? Was it all?

And I just wanted to just not like— I just I'm— I just— I had a pattern of making bad decisions. Like, it was almost comical. My family would make fun of it. It's like, you go do something and you always get caught. Your brother does the same thing, never gets caught. It's so weird. Like, my parents would see it all the time. And I just wanted a reset. I didn't know if I needed to move countries or whatever. And but unfortunately, at that point, it just was too far. I'd already been I went to juvenile detention the first time when I was 14. And I mean, dude, it's the worst thing you could ever experience as a kid. And I get out and I'm like, tell the guard, you know, nice meeting you, but never see you again. He's like, I'll see you soon. Wow. I said, bro, that's not cool. He goes, we always do. Ooh. I didn't know at the time, 80% of the kids that come and go come back. Yeah. And he wasn't wrong. So, yeah, man, I almost ended it all.

So in that moment, what made you not pull the trigger in the field?

I believe— I really hope everybody hears this because this is like the most coolest thing in the world. I believe we have angels. I believe we have people looking out for us, and I can prove it. There are people that got in their car today and they didn't come home. And if you did, you have people like— I believe that when it's my time, it'll be my time. Yeah, but it wasn't then.

Did you sense something? Did it— something— was there a voice inside you that said not now? Was there like, it was one more day?

Yes, it was. It was. This is, this is why, like, it, it was, it was literally a It was a scream. No.

Was it a voice you heard? An internal scream?

It was inside. And it was like, no.

Your voice?

No, it was a voice. Okay. And it was like— it was— and it wasn't even a voice. It was a feeling. Not—

no, it's not.

Not today.

Yeah. Wow.

Just What did you do? And it freaked me out, dude. I threw the gun, threw the bullets, ran away trying to forget where they were because I didn't trust myself. Just didn't want to remember where I was because I didn't want to get down to a low point because I was drinking and doing drugs. I was like— and dude, it wasn't until years later because everybody knows about the high-speed chase, but nobody knew about that. I didn't want to talk about that. I don't want to. But that's the truth. I didn't want my parents to know that. That's how I got—

one of my first memories of being sexually abused when I was 5, you know, one of the first memories I have in my life.

Can I tell you how proud I am of you? Nice.

Appreciate it.

Because I remember you shared that with me. You didn't— nobody knew.

Yeah, it's before I opened up.

Even about your brother.

Yeah.

Because you shared— because you knew that story of me because I didn't tell it. But you— and you said, hey, man, I want to tell you about my brother. Nobody knows this.

Yeah.

And I remember thinking, man, that's such a powerful—

Yeah, because I didn't know it about you.

No. Yeah. Yeah.

So I was like, what? You went to jail? My brother went to prison. I know.

Yeah.

I had two uncles pull the trigger, two different uncles from ages 5 to 7, separate sides of the family. One of my dad's younger brother and then my, my mom's brother-in-law. And so I went to two funerals back to back when I was 6 and 7. So young. From two separate uncles. Who didn't know how to deal with the pressure, the weight of life, different causes. One was on drugs, one was an accountant and couldn't handle the pressure, and both shot themselves. And so I know I've experienced that close to me. And I know, you know, how much it takes to not pull the trigger also for you when you're feeling that way, because I've had those feelings when I was younger of like, what's the point of all this? And why am I even here? And I I never attempted anything to take my life, but I felt I shouldn't be here, you know, multiple times. And so I want to, I want to acknowledge you for being here and for making a difference in the world because, you know, I think it's easy to, when you feel like you're not enough, when you feel like none of it matters anymore, when you feel like I've messed up so bad, I can't come back from this.

Yes. I can't come back.

I can't, the shame I have for my family. The shame I have with my friends, the shame I have with God. I cannot come back from this. And I think you're a great example that not only can you come back, but you can transform your entire life. You can have a beautiful family, you can have beautiful kids, beautiful wife, and make a big difference in the world. And your story is what's going to help you make that difference as well, not hold you back if you step into it. And so I want to acknowledge you for that because again, everyone hears about the money and the success and the big personal brand you have now. But I don't think people truly understand the shame you were feeling to want to take your life multiple times. You have to be feeling so low self-worth and so such a negative self-identity. And I'm saying that because I understand that feeling that you have to feel so bad about yourself to want to end it. And so I acknowledge you for not ending it and for— it didn't happen overnight, but you've transformed consistently over time.

Yeah.

28 years. You said, you know, hundreds of hours of therapy and lots of other transformational work. A lot of work. When was the moment that you actually started to love yourself?

That's a good question.

Do you remember? Because I'm assuming it didn't happen overnight, you know, after you're throwing bullets in the field and taking them out of the rifle. It probably wasn't in your early 20s. And I know you in your late 20s when you're driven to achieve and get exits and make millions and prove, because I was in that space as well. But when was the moment you actually said, I like myself and I love myself?

It's like, I'll be honest with you, man. I don't think I love myself 100% today sitting here. And when I say that 100% of the time, because I— you see what I'm saying? Like, I had—

I hear you.

Yeah.

So on a scale of 1 to 10.

Yeah.

How much do you love yourself?

8. Strong. Okay.

But that's I look at that as loving yourself.

No, no. And I'll tell you, so I think we have to define what that means. For me, it's I love me without anything else. That's— let's talk about that. I love life without my job, without the resources, without the money, without the recognition. Following the brand. Dude. My life without my kids, that's a hard one. So, so like my definition of a 10 is can I be with myself, by myself and love myself 100% of the time? 100%.

Well, I mean, no one wants to be alone.

I know. But no, but that's actually for me, the criteria when you say that is, is can I be on the top of a mountain by myself and be in pure bliss and joy?

I mean, love. I mean, life's not about being isolated. It's about being in relationship to others. So it's You know, sure. Can I, can I have a day by myself?

Dude, I didn't, I didn't know how to do that. I mean, the guy that wrote Buy Back Your Time. Why? Because I was optimizing for, like, for system structure, people.

What the bomb?

So it's like I had to write that book to help me get through that part.

Once you had all that time, could you be okay with yourself?

Dude, that was the craziest process. That's like when I was working with one of my coaches, Stephanie. This is— she challenged me. She goes, "I love you, Dan, and you're—" But now what?

Yeah, yeah.

"I dare you to go spend 5 days by yourself." Oh, yeah.

Have you done that yet?

Yeah, she made me do it.

And what did you discover? I—

what I discover, it'd been a while since I had taken care of myself fully. That's an interesting concept because I'm not a backpacker, go camping kind of guy. So what I did is I went— I did— okay, so I rented a van. That came loaded. Okay, so Intervan loaded, you can rent them. Luxury car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Camping, not glamping. So I got a van loaded and I remember like I was going to do 3 days. She said, no, that's not enough. 5, you got to go 5. And I'm like, well, what do I do? She goes, that's the whole point. That's the whole point. You figure it out. Yeah. No agenda, no process, no nothing. Work. Yeah. She called it window therapy. You need to go drive windshield therapy. That's what you call windshield— go drive and be with you, be with your thoughts, be with the presence, be in the woods. So I— when was this? This wasn't that long ago, bro. This is a couple years ago.

Really? Yeah.

Well, like, there's been— like, everything is— it's phasic. It's like a wave, like, right? It's not— again, it's— it's— I'm just an example of every day waking up and trying to not repeat mistakes and be a little bit better. And it got to the point where I was like, okay, what's my next level? And I thought, okay, I gotta do meditation. Okay, meditation's cool. But now I was like, oh, maybe I to do a silent retreat. And then she was talking to me and she's like, you go do this. And I was like— and again, I always look at what I resist. Yeah, of course, the thing you don't want to do is what I got to do. So that one I was like really resisting. I think I said no to her for about a year, and I finally did it. On the backside, that took 3 days. On the 3rd day, I was walking in the woods. I remember the moment where I was at, and I just dropped in, man. Just dropped into the beauty of nature, beauty of the moment, beauty of the presence, beauty of the oneness of it all, though. And I was like, Oh, so in that moment, pure love. Really? Oh, the wildest realization that this Earth has been around before I showed up and will be here after I leave. And it is the coolest. Like, the sun is the Earth breathing every day, right? And just like all these, like, just things. So I would challenge anybody listening because it's easy to, to, to, to stay busy. Even where we work is almost like a way to distract ourselves from trying to discover our purpose. All that, right? So I went through all that, the achievement, you know, challenges. But there was still a part of me that could not find that in him by himself. And I went to that place. And, and the cool part is on the backside of that, I became a better person times I think my wife, like, she— Renee was like, "Oh, no, Dan's different." So, I would just challenge people, even if it's for a walk, no AirPods, no phone, no podcast, or nothing, go for a walk by yourself and slow down and don't have a planned route and don't try to— I mean, do measure everything and try to compete against and how many feet of elevation, just go wander.

But, you're the optimization guy. I know, but that's why I used to be a trail.

You're the productivity guy. You're the— I remember talking to her. I was like, where do I go? She goes, you'll figure it out. Where do I sleep? No plan, nothing. No, I was a sapo. No phone. She gave me a sat phone. I was allowed to bring a satellite phone in case something happened and a couple books.

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Everyone's thinking you're a psychotic crazy. You're just standing there just staring at the seat.

I'm just connecting to people. Just, hey, how's your day?

Oh, it's interesting because you'd have to talk to people.

Yeah, I remember when I got— I go, oh shoot, I got to get my rental car to get to the hotel, but I don't know how do I get directions to the hotel. I don't know how to get there. I don't know my phone, my GPS. I had to stop at a gas station, bro, like it was the '90s and be like, hey, where am I going to this place? Can you tell me? And stop. They also thought you were— down. Hey, where am I going? You know, back in the '90s. And it was The first couple of days it was like stressful. But then there was one day, probably halfway through the week, I was laying in this cave of water right next to the ocean in Kauai. And I was like, this is incredible. I didn't want to go back.

You got it. I was like, this is it.

And I was like, oh, I could be here forever. You know, it was just like peace.

That's what happened to me. Yeah. Day 3. On the 5th day driving, I was supposed to be home at noon. I didn't get back till 5. I didn't want to. You don't want to go.

You don't want to turn the phone on again. You're like, I'm good.

It was also beautiful because it made me realize how little I needed to be absolutely in bliss. Happy. Nothing. I needed nothing. Happy. And that's why I think what's— what? Okay. On the backside of that, why actually it made me more dangerous in business is that I don't need anything from anybody. Yeah. And I know that even—

you don't need to accomplish. No, it's fun. You know, you're going to create to, like, build something.

Yeah. It's part of the human experience to create.

You don't need it to make you happy. Here's the question then, because, because you've hit rock bottom. For those that might be feeling like they're in a rock bottom right now, or they're just burnt out or overwhelmed, what is the mindset that someone needs to overcome this feeling of rock bottom and overwhelm to finally step into their abundance?

You're here to do something. You're here to do something big. I don't even need to know you. I don't need to meet you. I don't need to ever see what you do. But you, by the fact that you are human and you have a soul, you are here to do something. I wish I understood this sooner, and you kind of alluded to it, but the things that happen to us that hurt us the most are the most powerful tools that we have to help other people.

Yes.

It's true, dude. It's so—

that—

say that one more time. The thing that hurt us the most, that gave us the most shame, that scares us the most, that somebody else might find out, the thing that was most painful is the most powerful thing you have to help somebody else transform your life, period, full stop. I get it all the time, and I discovered I had to go to Peru Okay. Actually, that time I saw you at Giovanni's event, right after that, I went to Peru and I'm hiking in the mountains and I ask the question, how do I figure out my purpose? And the guy that brought me there, Philip McKernan, okay, says to me, it sits right next to the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And I don't know about you, man, Well, I know you would resonate with this.

You know what that is and you don't want to talk about it.

Dude, you put it in a box, you threw it at the bottom of the ocean.

Stuff it.

Oh, you, you haven't thought. But when he says that to me, oh man, what do you do with it? And it was— I needed to be in a mountain in Peru to process. Yeah, that was good. And that's why it's hard. In it for somebody listening to this to go, I don't even know where that would happen. And good news is you don't need to know, but you do have to make a decision. And the decision right now is that tomorrow morning is a blank piece of paper. Tomorrow morning is a new day. And if you wake up and do something positive, that is the opposite of whatever you're feeling, that is all you got to do just tomorrow. And And all I would invite you to consider is just make a commitment for tomorrow.

That's it.

One day at a time. Dude, that's one of the benefits of being, you know, somebody who's done the steps was just like the power of that. I'm not making it. It's not as hard for the rest of your life. Not making it heavy. We're going to make it simple tomorrow morning. That's it. Yeah. Let's win the day. Let's, let's just start there and we'll decide if the next day is something we want to continue doing. But those are the two opposites. It's like, do the thing tomorrow morning, but also realize that whatever you're going through could be the thing you need. This is crazy. Could be the thing you needed to go through to get you ready. Yeah. For what you've been asking for. It's true, man. Oh, dude, I'm— I did all of it. You know, I think of Oliver Anthony. Okay, so like, people forget because he's kind of had a thing and he's kind of moved on, but like, He was this musician that was drinking and not— multiple jobs, struggling in life, mid-30s. But— and he says it, he's just— he just made a decision, did two things. He said this on Joe Rogan, okay? Oliver Anthony wrote the famous song Rich Man North of Richmond. He said, I gave my life to God, and then I made— I started making about other people and stopped making about myself. And a few months after he made that decision, some person pulls out a camera and he's playing at some backyard Party. Yeah. And that song, he's the first artist to ever go number one Billboard as an independent in the history of mankind in music. Crazy. One video, one moment, and we're— anybody could have that, but it sits. You can't pretend like it didn't happen, and you have to make a decision.

You've probably said God 5 or 6 times. I know. When did you allow God into your life.

It's just, again, it's basic. I think I thought I knew God and I didn't know God. And then I like discover more and more and more. And Erwin McManus, big impact. I would say Erwin had the biggest impact on me a decade ago.

He did my wedding. It was beautiful.

I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that. Yeah, great guy. Yeah. And it's just like I grew up, you know, Catholic, but like what they call it, CNE Christians, New Year's Eve, Christmas, Easter. Yeah, Christmas, New Year's Eve, Easter. So that was, that was my exposure. Yeah. And then it was just over the years, you know, I went through the phase of like, I believe in energy and I'm spiritual and quantum and all this stuff. And then I listened to Irwin on some guy's podcast and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. You know what's wild about this and how God works? This is Crazy. And not super— like, today I'm like, of course I discover his podcast. And then I get a DM on my Instagram from him. His son. Oh yeah. Somehow his son was talking to a friend that said, you need to talk to Dan. Great guy. So he reaches out to me and I'm like, hey man, is it cool if I FaceTime with your dad? And he's like, yeah, for sure. And I'm sitting in the park. I remember where I was at. So you're— No, it was a while ago. Okay. Years ago. Yeah. Maybe 5 years ago.

Okay.

Yeah, I listened to his pod 10 years ago. Oh, yeah. So it was— I listened to a pod, maybe it wasn't 10, maybe it was 7 years ago, but it was, it was maybe a year or two after that.

Pre-COVID or during COVID Yeah, it was pre-COVID.

Okay.

And so you FaceTime him?

Yeah, he agrees to it. And I'm at the gym parking lot. and he's like, hey, Dan. And, and his— my video is not working, his is. And he's walking around his house, and I can't get my freaking camera to work. And we talk, and I was like, hey man, I got some big questions for you. He's like, what's up, hit me.

Dude, is God real? He laughed. He laughed.

He goes, would you be surprised to find out that I get asked that question 17 times a day? I go, Now that you say it, I think that was pretty ignorant of me to think that. But, um, and I'll tell you what Erwin said to me. He said, hey man, just, just read the story, study, man, may you make your decision. And that was— that's the difference. Like, you meet people, like, and that's why, like, I don't even talk about God really, but you ask and I, I can't not because that's what my heart says. Because I don't want to scare people away. I think that the best way to get people introduced to faith is just by being somebody of quality that is of faith. Like, that's like— people try to make it about that. It's like, just be a great human. People will be like, hey man, how do you, how do you always seem to be in a good mood? Or how do you, how did you overcome that thing? Tell me about that. And then you're like, oh, now I get a chance to tell you something. Yeah. So that's what he said. He said, just go study the story, go get to know the person. And I did. I just, I'm an avid student. I read, and I read his book, The Genius of Jesus, a bunch of other stuff, and Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing is like, so when you say when did you just— it's like, I feel like I keep discovering magic.

How has your relationship with God been of great service and support to you personally? Hmm.

I have the coolest new best friend now. I might— he might be my best friend. I'm not his best friend, but that's cool. He's the coolest. His name is John Maxwell, leadership GOAT, wrote so many incredible books.

That guy from Ohio, by the way. Okay. Yeah.

Pay attention, everybody. Yeah. And I share that because people come into your life to show you what's possible. I know you do that for everybody that follows. That is— that is what you're here to do and you do it so well. And it's always fun. People like, is Lewis the real deal? The realest of deals. Please get into him. Show up like that's— and I get it because people ask me that. I'm sure they do. Yeah. Get to know Lewis. And John's one of those, you know, when they say don't meet your heroes unless his name is John Maxwell. Oh my gosh, what a great human. So I'm hanging out with them, you know, this is not long ago, maybe 4 years ago. And we're talking and I'm just blown away at him at his event. He's such a great person. And, and I asked him, I said, how do you do it? You know, he goes, oh, it's I didn't, I didn't know I'd do any of this. And then he tells me something that just shifted everything. He talked about the biggest impact. He says, I have goals that are God-sized goals, and they're so big, they're beyond my ability to know how to do them. And they're so big that it's the ceiling of his floor. And he inspired me in spirit to dream, knowing I don't know how, that I need to. And he tells me this: you gotta give it to him. All the, the stuff that you don't even know, this challenges the fr— like, he tells you to. Like, he doesn't— I'm hearing this, it's not— he says it, but he's like, you got to give it to God and let God figure it out, dude. Let What are we doing? He goes, oh my God, you're going to get it going. Because he kind of gets like animated, frustrated. It's like people say they have faith, but they don't act like it. I can tell by the level of worries that they have because he said, give me those. You go to sleep. I'll work on them. Well, how did that impact my life? Oh, I was under-indexing. I was thinking small. I was acting scared. I wasn't— I didn't have God-sized goals. Mm. All of it. Whatever. Faithful servant. Use me. I'm down, down for the ride. Let's go.

Wow. So it's— was that a— was that like a turning point for you?

Yes. Yes, it was. It was. It was a core moment that I realized, hmm, that happened to get me to the point where I can have this conversation to then take the brakes off. Hmm. That if I didn't do that, I wouldn't have the appreciation of what he was saying.

Really? No, no. You had the brakes on in life. What do you mean?

Yeah, man, I was— I wasn't. But you were successful.

You're making millions, you're impacting lives, you're selling companies, you're investing in companies, you have coaching programs, all of it. But you have brakes on.

I didn't have God-sized goals.

So what did that feel like when you have brakes on your life, but you're also extremely successful in the eyes of so many people?

It's exciting and then scary. But then as soon as the scare comes in, I go, God, hey, remember that thing you told me I could do? I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to give it to you.

What does that feel like when you— okay, now I'm going to have God-sized goals. I've been playing at this level, which has been big in my mind and big to everyone else around me. And I've created a life of abundance, financial wealth, success. I bought my time back, good people around me. But I've realized there's a massive gap of God-sized goals. How do you let go of the stress or the worry? And how does that feel to say, I give it all to you?

Oh my gosh. I think we as humans, we use emotions to make us decide. You know, it's without emotion, there's no motion. So a lot of people create stress back against the wall, burn the boat, chip on the shoulder, chip on the shoulder. It's his dark energy to create, motivate them to do the thing. And guess what? It works. It does. The same Dan that was like, Louise, you don't want me to let me play with Mike. I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you. Beg to hang out. Dude, I would fantasize getting rich enough to buy the company she worked at to fire her. I'm horrible. I'm horrible. But that was old Dan.

But that drive works. Yes. It doesn't bring you peace.

No. And that's the thing is you use it to create that. And what happened was, is I was successful, but it was through this dark energy. And then when all of a sudden you realize that you're allowed to dream bigger without the emotion, without the stress, without the pressure and the noise.

The dark emotion, maybe it's more of a—

Yes, because it comes from— you asked earlier, like, when did you learn to love yourself? 'Cause that's what it is. It's the not enoughness. It's, I've got a hole inside. Prove. Yeah. And I think that that next thing of achievement's gonna prove it. But it was like, even processing that, I realized, here's a crazy idea. You're allowed to have it all without doing anything.

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You have to do the thing. But you're allowed to receive. And I think people are actually more— they're closer to the opportunity than they realize, but they don't allow to receive. They're blocking it. They're making up the rules where it needs to be true. You know, we all do it. When I do this, this, and this, then I'll be— I'll do this. It's like, or you could just ask for it now and see what happens. And that was like, that was the big idea is I think I was making up rules. I would just ask everybody listening if they could just ask themselves, what rules did I make up that has to be a certain way? Have you been to Date with Destiny? Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. UPW. Okay. So Tony Robbins does this exercise at Date with Destiny around values, away values. Away values and toward values. And it's to this concept where he says we make these rules of what needs to be true for us to allow ourselves to feel good, and we make these rules that are easy for them to happen to feel bad. Hard to feel good, easy to feel bad. How about we flip it? How about we make the rules to feel good Simple. So I'm allowed to feel healthy because I drank some water today. Yeah. Not went to the gym, dialed my macros, blah, blah, blah. I can feel healthy and I'm taking care of my body if I just had some water today. Make it easy. And then rejection, not they didn't reply to my email right away, it's they said no, called me up screaming no. Make it hard to feel the rejection. And I just, I think of it like when you ask me how did that feel once I brought the God-sized goals into my life, it just— I felt like I found this superpower of opportunity that didn't need to be hard anymore.

Why aren't you talking about this stuff more?

Nobody asked me about it. I appreciate it, man. Nobody asked me about it.

But you and I both know this is more valuable than which apps to use on AI. Not to say that you shouldn't be doing this. Yeah, but I'm empowering you and giving you permission to start talking about this more on all your content. Thank you. You know, kind of like how I've seen Gary go from talking about social media to gratitude, appreciation, all these other life skills. You have so much wisdom. And this is not to shame you by not doing this. I'm just giving you the permission to continue to do more of this. In your content.

You know, the story I was telling myself as you say this, tell me. That's what Lewis does. And yeah, but you know, I know, I know, because we've been doing this for a while. I know that in that comment is— but that's— we all have our own version of it that people are going to resonate with.

You don't have to do it the way I do it, but you can do it in your way.

Yeah. You know, I just— yeah, it's like I just need to just add it.

Yeah. What is your conversation with God like on a daily basis?

It's an interesting one. Again, I can only speak— it's— I'm still learning. Like, I mean, that was my favorite thing that Erwin said to me. He says, the more questions you ask, the more questions you'll have, or the more answers you get, the more questions you'll have. Yeah. And recently is just the, the reminder of appreciation to listen when this— like we even said before we started, you're like, I want to spend more time. So it's like that, that, that intuition, that, that guidance. I'm just— those are the conversations like, like, talk to me more. I'm listening. I'll, you know, where, where, where do I need to consider? Who do I need to pour into? Where can I slow down? Work out. Where can I speed up? I don't know. Just those, you know, I'm—

When you doubt yourself, how do you overcome that doubt?

I just— I do this thing.

I just— You literally do that.

I have to, dude. I'm so human. I wish people could literally spend some time in my mind so they could see it because it's easy for people to see guys like us and we know what we look like and think, oh yeah, but you don't struggle with this. You don't struggle with that. You don't get— you don't understand. No, I do. The difference is, is where I think a lot of people suffer, they suffer for days. Yeah, I don't suffer for days. I used to. Weeks, months. Oh my gosh, you know, Renee will tell you, 15 years ago we first dated, she would come home and for 3, 4 days in a row she'd find me in bed just binging some dumb show on the ice cream. And yeah, just I was not. I just— and it was these, these almost like these moments where I would just allow myself to get into it and I just couldn't be good for anybody else. I would just like pretend I was— I was sick and I wasn't sick. And, and what happened over the years is I realized like, oh, what, what am I going to do? And this is what changed is I just made that commitment, kind of like the 12 steps. I said, okay, well, and I give her credit because she would say this to me. When's the day? If you need this, I'll give you the time. I want the day and I want the time.

You're going to switch around to change the mood. Yeah. Have it. Tell me. And what would you say?

Well, depending on how long I was in it, I could have been, give me 2 more days, give me till 5:00, give me whatever. Yeah.

This is not long back in San Francisco. Back in the day. Yeah. I remember when you guys met. You came to my place.

I know. I remember when you guys—

you guys meet at South by now. You guys met in San Francisco.

Toronto, and she came down.

Yeah, yeah, then she moved down, huh? Yeah, but I think I came up to the office like— float— was it Flowtown? Yeah, I think in— yeah, yeah, that was crazy. 2009. Yeah, yeah, I was like 16 years ago. 16, man.

So I was doing it then for sure. Yeah, because I remember I was binge-watching House, and she's like, how long? I was like, okay, tomorrow 5 o'clock.

She's like, cool. Mine was Weeds. That's what I've been— I remember her. I went through like same 5 seasons of the— through depression for like 2 weeks just watching it.

The insanity of her life. Well, this is the thing. It's like we just need to not feel. Yeah. So it was just like my, my new way of not feeling. And what happened— and this is where I hope everybody could learn from that because this is what I had to learn— is that I had a choice to make those not weeks or days, but moments. And today when you ask that, that's it.

Do you literally make that move in my head?

And maybe in like, sometimes just like, yeah, just like you might need that as a trigger to be like, here, give it away. I see it come in. I know it's not, it's not him. Not, it's thank you, not need, like, give it to me. He said give it to— I, that's what I heard. I hope that's what it says in the scripture. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it does. Yeah, if not, that's what I think Erwin told me. Wow. Or at least John Maxwell told God-sized goals. And when the doubt comes in, he says, give them to me.

I'm curious about this. For those that are looking to create wealth and generate more money, when was the time you had the most money but were the least fulfilled?

You remember? I know you know this, but you're really good because like I— the way you asked that got me to a place that I've never shared before. I was 28 years old. And what happened was this was when I was— I didn't know, like, I didn't know how to win. So when I started to win, I didn't know why I was winning. So I just kept doing everything because I didn't know what it is.

Keep doing everything I'm doing.

What if it stops? But it stops. So this is from '26 to '28, and this is when I finally found some stride in my company. The third company, the first two completely failed. My dad's like, you should just get a job. I'm like, I can't do it. And I just had this gear and I'm working Sunday, 6:00. I'm supposed to be at my girlfriend's parents' house for dinner and I leave the office and I run back because we were supposed to be there at 5:30. At 6:00, I get back, I walk in. And she was just done. Done. Done with you. Done. Done. Just done. Walks past me, goes to her parents. Done. But what most people don't like is 2.5 months later, I sell the company. Multimillionaire, cash in the bank, zero-day earnout. Zero day. Zero day. That's the next— the day. I know. And in that, it's nice. And it also made me realize how much I allowed my work to keep me distracted. And then the morning I woke up and I didn't have to go to work and I had a bank account that was full of money and I was depressed and nobody cared if I get out of bed. Hmm. Dude, I think 2 days after that moment, I had a massive panic attack. Where it felt like an elephant was standing, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I had to go to the hospital. They introduced, like, you know, I ended up getting a psychiatrist, this guy named Manuel.

And you had millions of dollars.

Oh, dude, it was— you made it. Made it. And, and this is the part. I did it all for her, for the girl. And guess what? She never asked me for it.

Eh, she didn't want that.

People listening need to hear what I just said. Yeah, because we all get up to do the thing for the person and sacrifice for the kids, for your wife, for your— it doesn't matter. They don't want that. They never asked you for it.

So why do we think that we're doing it for—

it's just our bullcrap to give us permission to do it, to be distracted from connection, from intimacy, from So when you say, when's the moment you made the most money and was the loneliest, saddest, depressed? It was that. I remember where the— I, you know, it's like, and it was a blue sky, sun's coming through my thing and I'm laying there and I just was like, you should be happy.

Yeah. What happened?

What, where did I miss the calculation? There was an error. I'm a software guy. So the error in the formula, how did I not catch the bug?

What was the formula you had before then?

That, that sacrifice was required to, to create a life that I could have lived without the sacrifice. Like, if I want to be like right now, you know, when I talk to Renee, okay, because I'm, I'm God-sized goals, I'm all in, okay? Like, yeah, I have a great family office team and they protect me from myself. But I also like— yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, hey, you can't put all that into this, okay? You gotta diversify portfolio. But I also let them know, like, hey, I, I don't want you— I want you to challenge me, but I'm making my calls, okay? Yes. And the only thing I— now that I've gone through that, the blessing, the gift is that I know, because I've asked her, if I make a decision and I lose it all, everything. Is that okay? And you know the only thing she says to me? Don't be mean to me. And as long as you didn't take advantage of anybody. Oh, that's it, bro.

Bro, I could lose it all tomorrow. She'll still be with you. I don't care. Martha says the same thing to me. I was kind of telling you beforehand, when we started really getting serious in kind of dating and commitment and Engagement. She was like, I'll follow you anywhere. And it's like the most powerful thing to hear is a woman say to you, I will follow you anywhere. And it's also the biggest responsibility to not want to blow it all up so that she has to follow you down some dark path or some path of like, oh, now we're struggling. But it's such a gift for a woman to say that.

She took the pressure off of me to have to be. That's what— when you said, what was the difference? Before, I thought I had to be and do something for her to love me. And now I've got a person that says, as long as you're loving and you didn't do something to take advantage of me, I, I'm good. Well, then I can push and I can create because it's a— I'm playing to win, not playing not to lose. Yeah, that's a different energy. Yeah.

At the end of the day, you'll probably keep a few million safe in case it blows up.

The insurance said, like, dude, it would be really hard for me to mess it up.

Let's go. Yeah.

But at the same time, I know that, you know, if I ever wanted to hit the injection button and shut down my social media and reset my life and move to another country, she's good. Yeah, you can do it. Yeah. Like, and I think that's the beauty of it. And also, I think What we essentially want in asking that question is, are you with me for me? Yes. Are you with me because I can create this? Yeah, that's probably a little nice.

Yeah. I mean, look, I want this too.

Yeah. But, you know, can we be good without it? Because then I'm able to create from a place of contribution and not fear.

You know, a lot of wealthy people, What happens to someone if they chase money but they don't have a spiritual foundation to hold it up?

Hmm. It's kind of like addicts in addiction. They say the addiction is patient. It can wait. What does that mean? It can wait 7 months. 17 years. Like addiction, it's waiting for you to mess up, to come back.

Oh yeah. Oh man, it can wait any moment. You could go back.

I had a counselor at the rehab center that saved my life. It's called Portage. He was sober for 30— 28 years and relapsed on heroin. 28 years. 28 years, man. He was the one— he was 10 when I was there, and this was not too long ago. And it's patient. Yeah. So when you say success without faith, here's what I know. You can get the money, but it's— you will do something to self-sabotage it because it's empty. It's not. And it doesn't matter who you are. It's— there's no amount of money that can— that hole is this, this, this, endless place that you could pour everything. It's kind of like this bottomless— you just— the billions and the homes and the jets and the stuff. And you're right, these are people that I run into and ask me for advice, and I sit there and I feel— I feel it. It's a— for me at this level, it's, it's an energetic— my team actually feels it because sometimes we like, you know, they're around and they're like, and I'm like, yeah. And I really, you know, I also hold faith that God's going to show up, have that conversation, and then that person with those resources are going to do beautiful things. But that's what happens is you can have all the money in the world and you give it a long enough time, patience, it's patience. It's that not enoughness never goes away. You can mask it. You can protect yourself from it. You can pretend like you're not self-sabotaging. But it will show up and it will get you. And we can— we— their history is littered with people that had it all and self-imploded on themselves. Dude, I, I love MGK. Have you ever met MGK? I've never met him, but okay, I've never met him either.

Another Ohio guy, by the way. I know that.

I do know. But here's a great example of an artist. Tell me. That is so talented that deserves the accolades. And it just seems like he continues to go through this pattern, almost like he feels like that has to be true for him to do his art.

Mm. Well, I suffer. You may not go through this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No amount of this. And I'm assuming because he's been doing it for so long that he's seen his peers take off and I just don't know what it is, but that I just, I think of it because I'm like a big fan. And yeah, and I've just— I've seen those— that pattern just show up. And when you said without faith, that's what it is, because faith is the— it's, you know, you can have all the pieces, but then it fills it in to hold it in place. You know what I mean? It's kind of like— like I see this board with these, like, you know, core pieces of life. And then you need to— you need the water around to, like, stabilize the glue. The blue. Yeah. The fill it in.

When you say God-sized goals, what does that mean for you? How do you measure these? Like, do you have clear goals in mind? And do these goals have monetary results tied to them? Because you invest in businesses and you want them to grow and do well. So how do you track and focus on making money? Because you run businesses and you invest in companies that need to do well. While also focused on the impact these companies and the money will do on people's lives as well.

So our mutual friend Rob Dyrdek, having dinner with him last night, he asked me that question because he's made a lot of money. A lot of money. Boku, boku, boku.

He's very rich and he has a lot of fun.

He literally lives life to the max.

He lives it. Yes.

And he asked me that because I don't— even though people know I have my own talk about money, and I think he was curious of my philosophy on this. Here's how I know I have a God-sized goal. It scares me and I have no idea how I'm going to pull it off. Yeah, those are like the two things. It's if you know the how, it's not big enough. Okay. And if it doesn't scare you, it's not the right one. I literally go Oh shoot, I got to do that. You know, I don't want to write a book. Oh, I got to write a book. I don't want to be a guy on YouTube. I got to be a guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, geez. You know, you've been such an inspiration. I told you this earlier, like watching you and I'm like, I don't— I should, but I'm not going to.

It's like, well, I bet you put yourself out there all the time.

Yeah, but that's how I know it's a God-sized goal because I know that I need him to help me push through. When you ask the question, you said, you know, and then you have these businesses that need to make money or not. I know that, you know that, we know that. Yeah. But that was interesting because I— it kind of got me because that's the part that I'm also incredibly okay with, is that if it doesn't, it's, it's good.

Hear that? Yes. Because you have money and you've got investments and you're going to be fine. Yeah. You don't need that investment to make you money, but But in order for that to succeed, it's got to thrive.

Yeah. So, this is where that's the question I gave to Rob was, or my answer to Rob was the infrastructure that I have for businesses making money. And dude, nobody operates like I do. You know this. You've met my team. I've literally put them with your team. My background in software and systems thinking, all that stuff. I do that for the people. I do it for the world we live in. We live in this world where people need money. They need money. They need targets. They need a ladder to climb. They need a North Star principle. They need culture. They need vision. They need that. I get that. I can provide that. But the way you create it starts with— It's got to be scares me and I don't know how. Then the way you, you make that happen is you have to like, like do the basics, which I think if you don't measure, it won't happen. Like it's the measurement side. And, and then, then it goes to the habits, which you write about so awesomely in your books. It's can you design the habits, the daily rhythms where it makes the goal inevitable? That's always my question, Lewis, when I'm building a company. We have a big goal if we want to take it public or make $1 billion. But regardless, I always have to break it down for my team. Yes. To make it— if we do this at this level of volume, then it wouldn't be inevitable. It would be— it'd be ridiculous not to assume that this would happen, which would unlock the outcome. And that's when you ask, like, how do I create— like, what is it? How do I define it? How do I create it? And then how do we do it? That's the process. So measure, then the daily habits, the daily rhythm. It always goes— it always starts with— it has to be scary because that's how you know it's the right one. You can't know how to do it. So that's counterintuitive because people are like, well, how do you build a rhythm to achieve it? You break it down and you say, what's the most logical next step? So it's like big goal goals. For me, goals have to be something You know, like going to the Olympics.

I'm chasing the Olympic dream. I know. And I don't know how to do it. I mean, I have an idea, but I don't know how— if it's going to happen or not. No, there's no guarantees. No, I have to show up every single day, giving my best, improving rhythm every single day. And I've got 2 and a half more years to see if this will happen or not.

If— that's called faith.

And you don't know.

Yeah, it's like it's the step when you can't see the step. Trusting that it'll be there. Yeah, that is probably the biggest opportunity for people is that's why you have to start small, is people don't trust themselves enough. So it makes it feel like it's too big.

Just start small. Yeah. Even if the dream is 5, 10 years away, start with small money. Yeah, that's it. Let's just get a glass of water.

Let's get a glass of water. Let's, let's call ourselves healthy.

What do you think are the beliefs and behaviors that keep people stuck in a scarcity or limiting mindset?

Then there's only two things that hold people back, in my opinion. One, believing like they don't deserve it. And then not deserving it comes from some kind of unhealed thing they, they experience or happened to them, or they made a decision around that they have shame around that makes them feel not worthy. Simple example. For years I was speaking, traveling. I don't know if you ever did this, but somebody asked you to speak, you always say yes. You want to show up, you want to help out. I never asked for money. Never. And then I remember I was at an event and a guy who was just like me speaking, doing his thing, tells me that event organizer paid him $25,000 to speak. And you were like, well, what was the difference?

Yeah, he asked for it.

I didn't. And I think that sounds like a lot. Like, I would love to get paid. I'm talking little things like asking for travel expenses. I'm talking— I'm just— just ask, right? I have another friend that is the most value-added person in my life. And I get that we have to be a value giver. Never in 15 years has he ever asked me for anything to a fault. And I know where that comes from. So I think that's the one thing is people don't feel they don't— they don't deserve it. You know, they don't deserve it. The second thing is that they think it's bigger than they're capable to do. It's too big of a step. And I'll tell you why they do this is because they compare their chapter 2 to somebody else's chapter 17. I've been building companies for 28, almost 29 years. If you just started and you're mad because you don't get a lot of views on your YouTube or whatever it is, like, it's such a fascinating— because what I see with young people today, they literally think they should be a millionaire at 20. Crazy. You don't understand that the guy that you know that's 18 that's a millionaire started when he was 8. I'm not even joking. They started when they— he's 10 years. You just didn't see those 10. You might have just started last year. And because the gap's so big, they just give up. And that's, to me, the best thing that we could ever do for ourselves is just ask ourselves, am I getting better? Like, we know this because we hear it all the time. I'm only competing against me from yesterday. I got one dude. I don't— that's why I don't compare. And when people try to compare me, I go, I appreciate you saying that. Oh, you're going to be the next this. I'm going to be the first Dan because that's the only thing I actually can do. So if somebody's listening to this, this is the most powerful thing they could probably hear. Be the best. Insert your name. Be the first. Insert your name. Be the most expressive. Be the, the most, the, the just the most authentic version of you. And if you do, this is what happens because that's what we admire. You've met some of the greats. I haven't had the privilege. I know what made them great. Yeah, they were who they were. They weren't trying to be somebody else. Yep. The best musicians, they just were like, this is who I am. I really hope people like it because I don't know how to do anything else. Yeah. And that is what makes us attracted to them. So I think those are the two things.

I think a lot of people hear that and they think of this idea of like, that sounds great. To step into my most authentic self, but with so much uncertainty coming in the future, how do I actually do that when I'm so uncertain about AI, financial crisis, wars, political uncertainty? Can I afford rent in a few years, let alone buy a property when there's so much uncertainty financially of the future? How can someone step into their most authentic themselves, knowing it might all fail for them?

Hmm. When you ask me that question, this is where I go. Certainty is currency. What does that mean? It means when people come into commerce or into moments or decisions or anything, the person who is most certain about the future usually creates the future. So all the people that people are watching online That's all that those people have. They had the most certainty in the moment, whatever moment that was. It could have been the certainty I'm getting up and going to the gym tomorrow and my husband or wife says, I don't think you will. Well, I am certain I will. Watch me. Or a sales conversation or whatever. And even in this world with things like AI that is creating so much change and turmoil and uncertainty, I choose to be certain about the optimism. You know, even Elon Musk recently, he's on stage and somebody's asking about something and he goes, here's where I've gotten to. I could be pessimistic and right, or I can be optimistic and wrong, and it's better for me to be optimistic and wrong for my mental health. So he just chose, right? Certainty about the future, certainty about hope, certainty about abundance, certainty about you know, nobody's going to have to work and everybody's going to have better health care than the president, whatever it is. He just, he just, and he's creating that. And that's kind of where I've gotten to. It's like every moment that we delay the decision is just, you just live in this, you live in this like Yeah, this, this questioning everything.

So many people wait to launch their book or to create the project or chase the dream or get into the relationship, whatever it is. They live in fear of it needing to be the right time or needing to have the right skill sets or whatever it might be, whatever it might be. They wait so long and they keep thinking about wanting to do this thing and then they live with like more resentment towards themselves, regret, shame that they're not taking action. And they're just living in that fear. And it's really, yeah, for me, it's sad to see because I want everyone to thrive. But a lot of people sabotage themselves and what they really want, or at least giving it a shot. It doesn't mean it's going to work out, but like, at least do it. If it fails, at least you can move on to the next thing and you learn and you learn, right? I feel like everyone is failing at AI right now. You know, it's the feeling you get because a lot of people, unless you're an AI expert and you're building AI tech, you're in the AI world, you're a programmer, it feels like everyone else is still in the dark of how to actually use AI to benefit their life, to help their career, to make money. For someone watching or listening who is not an AI wizard, What is the one thing that they could create certainty around and how could they use AI today that will make sure that they have a more certain future tomorrow? 100%.

Number one thing people get wrong about AI, it's the only technology that's completely different from previous technologies. The press came out and we had scribes and scribes had to retool, they had to learn. What is that going to mean? And the ones that did ended up owning the publishing companies. The internet comes out. If you were writing for a newspaper, if you were willing to learn, you did all the work and you showed up, you became a web developer, right? If you, you saw this thing called mobile and you decided to like take a bootcamp and learn to code, you could become an app developer. AI is the only technology in the history of mankind that's ever come out they will teach you how to use it.

If you ask yourself a question, let's, let's, let's make this simple.

I understand. So here's what we're going to do. Yes. What type of person do you think might be struggling with this right now?

Someone who's got self-doubt, someone who's insecure, someone who's not physically or emotionally healthy, someone who's living with debt. Yeah. Living month to month, who's got 2 or 3 jobs. They don't have time to breathe. Yeah, they feel, I don't have time to think and I have all these responsibilities weighing on me. I've got kids, I don't have time to be there for my kids. Got it.

So all I'm doing is I've got an app called Claude open. You choose your AI. The cool part is it works with all of them. I'm not even going to type because I don't, I don't type. I'm going to teach everybody a pro move right now. You hit that little icon, it's going to dictate what I say. Okay, so I'm going to stop and start it over and I'm going to say I feel absolutely overwhelmed with AI. I have no time. I'm stressed out. I see the changes in the world, but I need to figure out how do I create certainty in my future? And I know that AI has the opportunity to support me in that. Build me a plan that I can do with a busy schedule with 15 minutes once a day. That's all I got. But I can commit to you for 15 minutes once a day, I'm going to show up, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to learn whatever you tell me how to do. Build me a plan for the next 90 days and, and make it simple because I'm not a tech person. Send. And you will watch again. It's the only technology in the history of mankind that can teach you how to use itself. And the number one question, if you look under all my AI videos, as simple as I make it, as clear as I make it, as black and white as I make it, the number one question list, you know what it is?

How do I use it?

How do I learn it? How do I learn it? How do I learn it? How do I learn it?

Ask it to teach you how to learn.

It is building. Let me read you what it's saying. Creating a polished Apple style 90-day AI year. It's building a full 50 minutes a day, 90 days researching. It's saying you have no time. We're doing this. Don't worry about it. It's doing its thing. Dan, is that free? This is free. It doesn't cost anything. You can do it in any— I don't— there's all these, like, the negative voices show up. They see that he's a tech guy, he's a software guy. No, I just— I don't know. I don't have a phone. Use— go to the library and get on a computer. I don't know what to say. But it's— this is how powerful it is. It's still thinking because I gave it some constraints. Lewis, I told it I'm stressed, I'm— I don't— right. So it's like, oh, this isn't an easy one. I got to do some like deep— what are we doing here? And I should have probably used a different AI. Yeah, well, just a faster one. Yeah. Opus 4.6 is the most powerful.

And that's with Claude.

Yeah, Claude, Open 4.6 or Opus 4.6. But this is—

I could already see someone saying, oh, well, I'm using ChatGPT, so now I need to learn a new one because it's more powerful. Gemini and now I don't know what to do. No, because there's too many to use. And you're telling me this one's the best one?

Nope.

So this one's going to give me a wrong answer?

Nope. They'll all do the same. There is no wrong answer. Okay. The answer is this is how you learn AI. Okay. Every day, come back to it. And say, here's what I've learned so far. I'm still confused. Make it simpler. I was trying to teach my kids basic math. They're 10 and 11. We were traveling the world.

I couldn't teach that.

It's not the math I learned. And I was asking AI, teach me the math. And I was explaining the work and then it was explaining it. I go, simpler, simpler, easier. Please use a diagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, tell me a story to illustrate it. And guess what? It just did. Wow. It's still going. That's how they get— Yeah, it's going to build the most beautiful visual plan. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'll show it to you.

You can put it up on the screen and— Yeah, we'll show up on the screen. If someone's thinking, okay, everyone's talking about AI for making money, like we're hearing experts say there's going to be ways you can build and scale your business and you can have zero employees and it'll be every employee for you. What is, what is the real way that someone can use AI to actually make money in the future? You're going to love this.

It doesn't even make sense. It doesn't make sense, Lewis.

Oh, it gives you day by day. It doesn't make sense. It's got a whole—

built an app.

Just read this. Here's a screenshot.

Yeah, they built a whole app.

Wow. 90-day AI plan. It's like a course.

It's giving you the whole course. I— that's what I asked.

From overwhelmed to operational. No tech skills required. Let's do progress. 0 to 90 days. So it asks you to build a course, essentially.

I just gave it what I gave you. It's going to give me 90. It goes, you know what, if I'm hearing what you're saying, this is what I'm going to do. It's the only technology in the history of mankind that will do that.

Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Is there a way you can actually use AI to make money right now? 100%. How do you have to have a certain business already? Do you have to have a brand already? You have to have a following already. Can you, can you, could you teach someone how to make money with AI in 24 hours where they could actually earn money? Yeah. In 24 hours. Yep. Come on.

I would do it right now with you in 12 minutes. It's— I'll tell everybody how to do it. Okay. Okay. What happens in the world right now is we have some people that are like me that are in it. Then there's a bunch of people that are not in it. Let's call it the 60% that are just dabbling a little bit or not even in it at all. There's only 5% of the world that use AI. So they're of the world, 8 billion people. There's only a couple hundred million that use AI. And of that couple hundred million, there's only 5% that pay for AI.

Wow. Who are actually—

and then they just pay for a pro account. I'm just talking to your pro.

Doesn't mean you use it.

No. And I'm just saying $20 a month. So we all think everybody's doing it. They're not. So there's a 60% audience of people that if all you did was show up, and said, hey, what part of your business or your life are you frustrated with that if you could automate, you would be really excited about? And they say, well, I don't know, I don't have time to answer my phone calls lately. If I could automate that for you, you know, how would that look? How would you want it to work? I could do that for $1,000 a month. Would you like me to set that up? Now, again, people hear this and they go, yeah, but how do I— I don't even know how to do that. We just did the demo. Use the AI.

To say, create this for me. Yeah.

Oh, I've done this with 12-year-old kids. My son Noah did this too. He literally asked me the same question. I walked him through the same answer where we created the offer. He decided to help people with their content marketing. He went, do you want to create— do you want somebody else to take care of your Twitter, your podcast, your Facebook posts, your LinkedIn posts, all that? I would love to. Cool. What would that— what would— what would that mean to your business? And I— and guess where he learned the sales script?

From AI.

Well, I know, but it sounds like— no, Dan, it's your son. You taught him. No, I didn't.

You taught him how to use it. How do you ask?

I said, ask the AI to write you a script to call my friend to ask the questions. And he did. And then he grabbed my phone. He started calling my friends.

Let me ask you another question. This is going to scare people. I'm in L.A. Hollywood's the main, you know, kind of industry people hear about here. A lot of people are getting laid off because of AI. A lot of producers and writers and all these companies are laying off tons of employees because AI is going to automate it or optimize it or save time, whatever it might be. If you had to— I know your team and you would never do this, but how many employees do you have or how many people working with you?

100 and then a ton of people outside.

So you got 100, 200 people you're paying every month employees that rely on you. Hypothetically, if you had to let them all go, you had zero employees. How would you use AI to be even more efficient and make more money and have a greater impact in the world with zero employees?

That's a fun question.

Well, I guess you'd have to ask the AI. I would ask the AI. But if you had zero employees. Yeah. And you had to let go of your whole team.

But you said impact the world, which is cool, and make money.

Okay, I got to make more money, be more efficient, and impact more people.

What's interesting is I actually think leaders have an opportunity right now to not have to replace their team. So we've seen it. Meta just announced— there's a rumor— 20% of their staff, Facebook, gone, gone. Jack Dorsey, founder of Square and Twitter, he has a company called Block, just laid off 40% of their whole company, 4,000 people out of 10,000, and his stock went up 25%. Not fair. And he says because of AI. So it's happening. I actually think that as a leader, if I had to do that, it's because I didn't see and upskill everybody. Sure. So I could, and all I would do, this is what I would do, is I'd use my platform. So I have a product called Apex, which is an agent platform for execution. I don't want to scare people, but AI is way more than just chat. We've now gone to autonomous AI agents that can do functions. I would use that to do all the functions my team, those 100 people do. Because I consider myself a fairly decent leader. Yeah. What I decided to do a while ago was shut down my company for 2 whole days and retrain my whole team. No meetings, no structure, no nothing. And we did an old-fashioned AI hackathon, and I taught every one of them how to code. Cloud code is what I taught them. Finance, HR, marketing, didn't matter what level, interns to the CEOs of my company. Companies. Everybody's going to learn to code. Now, Lewis, I know you hear this and you go, but I don't know anything about code. You don't need to. It's not the same thing anymore. Do you know how to speak English? Yes. It's literally that simple.

You know how to give instructions.

That's how we code today. I wrote—

I actually— now, these apps actually work. Build me this app, you know, if you say a 60-second voice note, say build me a full app that can be up on the Apple Store that can start making money and processing and Yes. And you can do that through AI right now.

Claude can do this for you. And I'll tell you.

But is it a fact? Is it look nice? Is it quality? Is there bugs that you need a whole team to enhance it? Really, Lewis, this is what I wanted to make an app right now. How long would it take to use Claude? I could put it up on the App Store to start making money. How many days? Hours? No, no, it's not days.

It would be the only thing that would slow us down I could— we could do it together in 3 minutes by prompting like we just did to build an app. The only thing that would slow us down is creating the Apple developer account and waiting for our app to be approved. How long does that take? Depends on Apple. Might take a day, might take 12 hours.

Oh, but it could be in a few days. Oh yeah, for sure. Really?

The first thing— there's two things that AI did when it got good. Okay, it's called GPT. That's why it's called ChatGPT. Okay, the GPT started writing copy and it started writing code. Those are the two— game changer. Yes. So here's how I know it can do that is, for example, Claude Code— Anthropic's the company, Claude's the product. The team at Anthropic hasn't written a line of code in 6 months. It's better than the The programmers, because they use cloud code to create the code. Nobody's writing code and everybody's using cloud code to create the code at the other AI companies. This is, this is not Dan's wild, uh, guess. This is facts.

Are people still hiring programmers to build out apps?

Yes. Why? Because if you don't need them anymore, what you need is somebody that can direct.

Yeah, but you don't need a full team of developers.

No, the productivity, that's why I'm assuming Jack Dorsey at Block laid off 40% of his team.

Like, we don't need people manually writing code when they can do this 1,000 times faster and better.

Yeah. And his philosophy— and he wrote it in his, his post— he said, look, I'd rather just do 40% now, not 15% now, 20% next year. From a cultural point of view, we're going to be able to create 10x more efficiency. So let me let people move on with their lives, retrain everybody. And move on to that 10x productivity. The good news is, if you're listening to this, you could be that person for yourself in your business. You could be that person on your team before your boss asks you to do it, because maybe you don't have somebody like me that's willing to shut down their company for 2 days, bring in external programmers to be available for us to do a hackathon and teach everybody how to do cloud code. But everybody walked away from that 2-day experience being minimum 5 times more productive. I don't have 5 times less stuff I want to do. I have a capacity problem. Now I got unlocked. Wow. So when you say, hey, we're going to fire everybody, and then what are you going to do? I go, I could, and I would get my AI agents to do it, but personally, I'd rather empower my team to use the AI agents to write the code. And that's what I did.

Of the 2-day hackathon you did in your company, what was the greatest idea that came out of that from someone that wasn't you? Or the greatest—

None of the ideas were mine. Just that's the way the hackathon works. Everybody built their own teams, looked at problems, pitched, just told them what they were going to work on. And the way we did it is after the 2 days, everybody had to shoot a 3-minute video explaining what they built. Real code, real working, and everybody voted. And I put $3,000 up for the prize. Yep. So what won? It's not what I would have picked, but again, the meritocracy. Yeah. I'll tell you two things. One, the thing that surprised me, Lewis, that in hindsight it shouldn't have, but it did, is everybody worked on a solution that made their job obsolete. That surprised me. That's leadership though. I guess, but I didn't tell them what to build. Yeah, yeah. They just chose to— they built the tool to not have to do the work they were doing.

Of course, because they want to do different stuff.

What a crazy concept. And that's why we try to tell this to our team too.

Like, create processes, systems so you can either give it to someone else or it automates it so you can do the next thing.

And then people are like scared to do that. And then guess what?

I'm not going to have a job, right?

They got fired because they didn't want to take up the technology.

If they're not willing to level up, it's like, dude, if somebody's willing to do that in your life, they're invaluable.

You pay them more. Let's go. What are we doing? How much money you want to make? Yeah. And so that really surprised me.

And so what was the tool that won, or the app, or the—

it was a tool that literally did the conversation in one of my companies for the sales process that used to be a person. And they call it Qualify. They named it and everything. It's called Qualify. And Lewis, there's no salesperson anymore.

It's a voice. AI.

Well, so what's funny is we didn't lay everybody off once they built it. We just have them managing it and doing other things. So then the marketing team increased the leads because the— they do unlimited now and it's guided. It's not like it can do— it can do 100%, but somebody still needs to watch it. Of course, quality control and optimize. So this is the world we're in. If every— if I'm hoping your audience wants to hear kind of where the world's going, because I will give them the answer to the test. Go ahead. The internet came out, created WW— like the World Wide Web created this new role. Okay. And that's all that happens at every new innovation from the printing press to the internet to mobile. There's new jobs created, right? New, new— old jobs are eliminated. Yeah, they go down, the new one gets created. And if you're early, you make the most money, of course. So the journalist that used to work for the, the newspaper, if he was quick, he learns HTML. And an app called Front Page. I don't know how—

Yeah, I understand. I'm not— Okay. Yeah.

And then now he becomes a web developer. If you're a web developer in 2000, you're making $200,000 a year. You might have been making $70,000 writing for a newspaper. Now you're making $200,000. The new equivalent of that is called an agent operator. It's the person that monitors the code, that monitors the marketing, that monitors— it doesn't need to know how to do it.

But it needs to have common sense.

Yes.

You know, I need to get this result and it's not working. Yeah.

You look at the output of the app and you're like, oh, well, no, our brand color is blue and it made the button red. Hey, can you update it to blue? And it goes, okay, and it just does it. Or it looks at the copy and say, oh, we don't say things like that. Can you do this? But they don't do it. They're the— I call it the director, not the doer. And that is the agent operator and that is the new role. And that's essentially what I did is I shut down my company, and I said all the roles are going away. There's a focus now on workflows. And the cool part is, is I can teach you how to do the workflows, and you're going to use the AI to do the workflows. Yeah, but you're just going to be the operator, kind of the manager. Yeah, you just— nobody hated that. So the Qualify that won the AI hackathon, the team there is just using Qualify to now 5x their productivity instead of manually doing it. So there's no more bottling. Guess what? Qualified doesn't take vacation. Qualified doesn't complain. Qualified works weekends. It gets better.

It doesn't have an off day. No, it doesn't say something that's going to hurt the brand.

Give one coaching to one Qualified, everybody gets the benefit. Yeah, it's that. So that's why I'm an optimist. I just, I worry that people are pretending not to hear this. Yeah. And, and, or making it feel like it's above. I don't know, it's too big.

I don't have the time. Yeah. What was the thing that you would have picked?

Well, I know what I worked on. I, and I, and I thought we should have won. I mean, I'm a very competitive person. You lost. And you, dude, I built an AI that runs my whole company from ideation to validation to—

team doesn't see the value of that. They see like, how it's going to save my time.

I think they just thought it wasn't real. Like, I literally thought they might have thought I made up— it was fake. I built an app that we called Agent Forge that searched for ideas, looked at trends, came up with problems and solutions, launched the website, launched the Facebook ads, ran the ads to do the pre-launch waitlist. It did the ads itself.

I'm not done. This is crazy.

Then had in one of them, it came out with the idea. The one it built was a security tool, ran the ads, had somebody opt in, built a follow-up sequence in the email from the waitlist to get— it was a $50 to bump at the top of the list to get early access and actually had a sale by the time Monday rolled.

Come on.

Video with you not posting anything on social media and built the prototype.

You didn't post anything on social media. It ran the ads with the ads. The ads. Wow. Agent for how much to spend on the ads. A few hundred bucks. At $50. So it broke even.

Yeah, it was. It was right. It was getting leads for like $3 or something. Wow. It was just like 1 out of the 10 opt-ins paid the $50 to go up. Now, did I have a Stripe account? It could use the API to create the link. Yeah. So I had some infrastructure, but it did my job as a venture studio. Wow. And that's, that's when I realized, like, I'm optimistic, man. I'm optimistic. I think, I think, I think there's going to be, unfortunately, a challenge over the next few years and it's going to come back. But I'm really hoping if I can keep sharing the optimism and I can share the tools and I can show people how simple it is and, you know, and that's all I do. I think today's YouTube video was like, here's how you can use this AI to do every part of your business so that you can have more time with your family. And I show— and I— and I show it. I show it, the whole thing, the prompt, the whole thing. And it does it. It's not my business. It's very— I think it was a marketing agency, which is a lot of them. The marketing, the leads, the sales, the delivery, the follow-up, the operations, automagically done.

So I'm gonna get a couple final questions here. Before I do, I want to make sure people follow you, Dan Martell, on social media. Your YouTube channel, um, Buy Back Time. Make sure you guys get the book.

Instagram's my fave. Yes, @danmartell. Yeah, and if anybody wants my AI stuff, like, I've got an AI implementation guide. Where is that at? Just, just message me, Lewis AI, on my Instagram. Okay. If they do that, I'll know they came from here. Yeah, I'll send it to them. Okay. It is the— I built it so that people could understand how to apply it if it's marketing or sales or Because it's about—

we do this. Can we create a website for an opt-in that'll automatically send it to people right now? And then someone on your team could actually create a prompt with this to show people how we did this.

This won't come out until, you know, we're going to do this and I come up with a domain name. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to do DanMartell.com/Lewis. And not only can they go get what I just offered, I will have my team show the prompt that created the page. That's what I'm saying. And delivered it and the emails so they can see the words that created what they're experiencing. Yeah.

So DanMartell.com/Lewis. You'll get this AI report. Yeah, the AI implementation guide. And you'll also get a quick little video that AI will show you how we did this. Yes. So it'll be, you know, elevated, elevated inception, meta level, all that stuff. So DanMartell.com/Lewis, check that out. Check out Dan's book as well, Instagram and everything else. And again, I want to acknowledge you for powerful conversation, man. It's been fun. And hopefully you continue to speak more about this in your content because as people get overwhelmed and confused with AI, the more new apps come out, the more people talk about it, the more it's in the headlines, the more there's good and bad around it being talked about in the news to create fear. I think they need to continue to be grounded in learning how to love and accept and enjoy your life with the time you're creating, with the chaos that might be happening around you in the news. So I think you are perfectly positioned to speak into this based on your past. Thank you. So hopefully you continue to do more of it. If you can imagine, you know, 40, 50, 60 years from now, the end of your life, what are you going to be most proud of?

I believe every person's here to be an example of possibility. You've done that for me. I hope I can do that for others. The example I would love to leave people on after this wild journey, bro, wild journey, is this philosophy that I, you know, I don't have any tattoos and I probably should get this one. It's the philosophy of being wildly involved in the creation of life and the detachment of the desire of needing it to be any certain way. Involved, unattached. Involved, unattached. I think I first heard Wayne Dyer talk about this philosophy, and he might have got it from a Buddhist. Yeah, yeah. But I just like, I would love to be that for people. I would love for people to be like, man, He built, but he did it in a way that he didn't care, but he cared because that's what that is. The— that when we talk about the God-sized goals, that's kind of what it is. It's like, I'm not creating from a place of not enoughness. I'm creating from a place of possibility. And if it happens, gravy. And if it doesn't, also gravy. That would be the message. That would be like the permission I would love to give people to lean into is let's stop making it so hard on ourselves, but at the same time, let's hold ourselves to a higher level. Yeah, I know.

It's like, to me, my coach talks, says high engagement, low attachment.

There we go.

Be fully engaged but not attached. Low attachment. Beautiful. You know what I mean? High engagement, low attachment. Final question, Dan. What is your definition of greatness?

Having the courage to do the work. You could be, you can be somebody that everybody knows, win all the championships, win all the races, win the medals. You could still not have done the work. And I, again, I just go back to the most powerful thing that we have is that story of doing that work and then sharing it to help other people. And I just, I think when I think of like the people I admire, admiring their greatness. I'm— and even with you, I've said this, I'm just grateful that you, you did that. You showed it. You, you had the courage to do it. That's my definition of greatness. Dan Martell, my man. Appreciate it. Amazing, man. Thanks, brother. Most people really believe they're going to change their lives with their own personal will. It will make you great to a certain extent, but you will plateau at a certain level. You'll be dissatisfied unsatisfied, you'll be bored, you'll be frustrated. There's nothing wrong with— name a legend who didn't have a legendary team.