Goldie Hawn: “I Had to See a Psychologist” Her 8-Year Journey in Combating Anxiety & Panic Attacks

I started having panic attacks. I did not feel comfortable. I didn't want to go to Hollywood. I didn't want to be that person. I didn't want to be a star, certainly. My next guest, you all know.

One of the best and most unique performers to ever grace the screen.

Would you welcome Goldie Hawn?

Goldie Hawn.

I started meditating. It was the most extraordinary experience for me to get. out of my head and into my heart.

Wow.

And it, I just could feel my heart beating. I kind of met myself again. Happiness is not anything from the outside. Happiness is what you build on the inside. Wow. The only thing that I did right in my diary was, I wonder if I'll ever find a man that will love my children the way I do. I wondered, you know, I wondered if it was possible.

What do you think is the biggest lesson that your kids have taught you?

I remember the way they made me feel, helped me see perhaps, God, I wish I'd have been there more. They are the most important pieces of my life.

Did you always feel like you had a good sense of self-love?

That's a really interesting question. Because I haven't been asked that. Did you always have self-love?

Welcome back, everyone, to School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring and iconic Goldie Hawn in the house. So good to see you.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Thanks, Freddy. I'm so happy to be here.

Thank you for being here.

I love this. I love the School of Greatness.

Thank you very much.

We all can be great if we focus on that and have sort of a pathway to believe in yourself.

100%.

So I love what you're sharing with everybody.

Thank you very much. You have such a, I told my fiance that you were coming on and she was like, man, she's such an icon, she's so inspiring and she's done so much. But the thing that I think is really inspiring and impressive is how you've been able to be successful in your career, especially in Hollywood, which is a challenging industry to be in, while also thriving in, you know, an intimate relationship for such a long term. And we were telling, we were talking before off camera, Yeah. That your kids still want to hang out with you and they want to spend time with you and be close to you. And I was saying that is a true measure of success when you can live your dreams and your kids still want to be with you as they're adults.

Yes, it's just the greatest gift in the world. You know, we live very close to each other and we can walk to each other's houses mostly. Oliver lives a little further down and Boston a little further up. But nevertheless, I mean, it's been amazing to have that gift. I thought, oh my God, but when the kids were really younger, even if we got a boat or something to be on, they just wanted us to be on it. Don't invite anybody else, just have us on it. Really? Because we have more fun. I mean, we have so much fun together and we laugh together. I don't know, I'm just so blessed. And now my grandchildren are all together. So it's, what makes you want happier? At least I can speak from my point of view, then, than our family. I don't think, I don't even imagine my life without that. That's the main thing. Somebody asked me once, was I'm doing a lot of things that could create what you call a legacy. So, you know, what would you call your legacy? And I said, my children. My children are our legacy. That's the greatest thing you can put into the world, our healthy happy, productive children. We're doing okay.

What's been the, I mean, with you being able to pursue your career and your dreams and be an actress at the highest level, how do you raise healthy kids while you're also busy, driven in your career as well? How did you do it?

Well, it's your instincts, you know? I mean, listen, I did private Benjamin. Katie was, you know, in my arms. I was feeding her. She was, you know, nine months old. So the reality here is, is that you do what you can. I think it's like having children. It's like playing baseball. You never take your eye off the ball.

That's good. That's true.

That's true. You never take your eye off the ball. That's the problem. Because even if I was working, I would connect to my kids. I'd find out what they ate. I'd make sure, you know, and I'd try to get home before their bath. This is an area they know when you're not present and they know when you are, and you can't lie to them. So, you know, I just try to be the best you can be and we're not perfect. So that's the, I think intention to be the best parent you can be is pretty much all we can do. I mean, you say, oh, you go to the park or we play together or we do this together. But love is everything. That builds happier brains, I couldn't tell you.

100%. Now, did you always feel like you had a good sense of self-love your entire career or in previous relationships that maybe weren't working out? How do you keep that sense of self-love and project it on your kids when maybe you're not going through a good situation?

That'S a really interesting question because I haven't been asked that. Did you always have self love? I had my insecurities.

I.

Didn'T think I was very pretty. I was flat chested. I was, you know, not what the girl that the guys looked at. But I never, I never lost self-love.

Really?

No. I mean, there are, you know, situations to get out of, and I've had a heck of a lot of them. But I don't think I never thought I could do it. I always felt I could do it. And that's believing in yourself. You know, I was left off on 10th Avenue when I was 18, going to New York to dance at the World's Fair. So I had my first job. And I had nowhere to stay because the people I was supposed to stay with left for the summer. And I'm standing there on 10th Avenue going, Now what do I do? And that's kind of who I am, right? Let's solve the problem. You know, let's not go too much about the I and all there. Let's just try to get me a place to stay tonight.

How did you, where did you go then?

I went to my dance teacher and my choreographer. And I stayed with him for about three days until I found an apartment.

Wow. So you went to the next best solution. What's the next best thing to try?

Yes, exactly. Solution oriented sort of how my brain works. So if there's something going wrong, like a film that I was directing at one point after I was filming, it was called Hope, it was for Turner. I then, I was having just the best time. I loved it. However, One night, I had done this incredible scene. And the scene that I had to do was all edited. We had to do a lot of editing on it. It was really a long scene and it was done all day with kids fighting and all this stuff going on. And what happened was someone came at dinner and said, oh my God, we've lost the entire day. Because the film at that time, it was film and that was exposed. When that was exposed, I asked everybody to leave my trailer so I could start thinking of a solution. Instead of getting flappable and angry and who did this and who did that, we just have to create solutions to our life. It isn't poor me, it's how I'm gonna actually execute me. So that's what happened. And it actually turned out better having cut it and then brought it outside and shot it in one shot.

Interesting. Redoing it.

Redoing it. Made it better. Redoing it. So, you know, things, we think things are terrible. And if we really take a look at them, they're not as bad as it seems.

Wow. Now, so did you feel like you always had self-love maybe in earlier relationships that weren't working out or marriages that weren't working out? Did you keep that sense of self-love?

Interesting. I felt I felt frustrated in some of those relationships. My first relationship that I had was we were both dancers and that was awesome. And he's Greek and I loved the Greeks. That was a big Greek period for me. And he is wonderful and he's gifted and he was a dancer and so was I. The problem that happens in that is that you don't lose necessarily love. But the life is changing because I couldn't walk into a room, it was laugh in period, and I couldn't walk into a room without people looking at me. I'm saying that because it was all like, boom, what happened to that person? It was like it blew up.

You blew up.

Yeah, I blew up. And that's not fun to have a partner who isn't blowing up. And I could say he was doing amazingly well and so forth, but It's just, it's a crazy thing. There's no balance there. And that wasn't pleasant for him.

Do you think it's possible for someone in a relationship when they're both not well known, where one can all of a sudden get a lot of notoriety or fame or success or an abundance of something and the other one hasn't grown there, can they still make it work, do you think?

It's very hard.

It's very hard.

Especially, well, I mean, there's, you know, degrees of success, right? It's very hard in people who are, you know, outward facing that you see that are famous or whatever, because there's no secrecy anymore. You can't hold back. You can't wish now not to be so exposed. You can't anymore. So everything eats away a little bit at a time. If you don't have inner stability, then it'll eat, it can eat away at you. There's no doubt about it. We're not made of steel, you know, and.

There'S no much of like reinforcing of that person of like, oh, it's everything's good if they're not feeling good about themselves.

Exactly. And it can undermine self-esteem, undermine sense of self. And that's, that's just not good. I mean, everybody needs to find a purpose. Everybody needs to find. their center. And sometimes you can get off balance when you're with a partner that is so celebrated. And with that comes money. And money is very tough. Okay, so the whole idea of money has so much power. Just the idea of money creates power. So that, you know, having a lot of money and gaining money is really sounds really good. Back in the day, I remember thinking, well, we'll just put everything in a pot. I was so young, I mean, I was 23 or something.

And kind of share it together.

Yeah, just throw it in a pot. You know, we'll do this, we'll do this, and it'll all be cool.

But when you're bringing 95% and they're.

Bringing 5%, no, and you buy a house and they don't own it or they own part of it, but not enough. And it's, I swear, it just, it's, what is it? Erodes.

Really?

Erode some of your relationship. Well, you can start out feeling very optimistic, but if you realize it, you always have to remember what it is you love about that person. What is it you couldn't live without with that person? In order to nurture your choice, because that's the most important thing. and then if that is going to eat you up and get under your skin, male or female, females, of course, it's easier because girls are not supposed to make all the money and they're not supposed to be powerful and they're not supposed to be the decision makers and they're not supposed to be, and it, that goes from the cave days. Okay, this is very cavey. It's very cavey. Some boys can't, you know, always help themselves and, and we get that. So when a woman has all the money and a woman has all the ideas and has all the power and makes the decisions and so forth, there's a little part of the woman that feels like she'd love to have a man taking care of her.

Wow.

No matter how rich they are.

What it, I mean, this is powerful. What advice do you have for women now who want to make their own money, who want to have their own successful career, who want to share their art in the world and be celebrated for it. What advice do you have for them about finding a male partner and what they should be looking for to have a healthy, successful relationship as well as career?

Yeah, well, that's very subjective because you have to find someone that's a friend, first of all. They can be a friend. And also someone, you have to know yourself to know that if you're falling sexy with somebody or you wanna fool around, you wanna have fun, that can happen with no money at the table, okay? It's really important to look at yourself what your needs are and show boundaries for yourself. Because if you don't have boundaries and know that this will never work and know that it will never work, I don't wanna feel guilty when I come home and I bring a paycheck that's more than he is that way. or you figure out when you're together as parents and the husband isn't doing quite as well and the wife is flourishing, they exchange jobs and they're pretty good at it. It's really, really nice when you have that. It's rare, but it does happen. And then you have such value for each other in so many ways. But it is very subjective. So remember when you get attracted to somebody and he happens to be something wonderful, but not necessarily making anywhere near the money you are, you just take a look at it. Make sure that you don't jump into something before you realize you'll resent later.

Have you, I mean, have you seen anyone in the industry, I guess Hollywood industry who, where women who have had made more money than the men they're with be successful in relationships as well long term? Have you, have you seen that?

Well, I'm, you know, I'm not a, what is it? In other words, I know some people in the industry, let's put it that way. But I'm not, you know, somebody who knows everybody. Right. Okay. And we see people who get married again and they go back, you know, and they get together. And I think it's very nice because the ones when you get married again, that's what Liz and Richard did, you know, you know, that so when we were Richard Burton, they got married for a second time, you know, so there's always something there, you know, there's some electricity there that said that they can't live without. But I really, I really haven't. The people that I do know actually are do pretty well with that. Pretty well with that. But there's artists and there's all kinds of things that you love about that person and you want to stay there. So that's what I would suggest. My issue that I never, I mean, I had men in my life, but never for marriage. And I knew that.

Really? You'd be seeing them or dating them, but you were like, I dated them.

Or, They're wonderful, wonderful, fun, you know, great. I mean, really. And, but they were not family.

Really?

No.

How do you cut that?

How do you cut that? Much more money and much more, you know, whatever.

Than all of them.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

How do you separate your emotional connection towards these, you know, relationships, knowing they're not gonna stay with you? to long term, those relationships, knowing that you're not going to potentially commit long term. Like, how do you, how do you navigate the emotions of knowing like, hey, this is a lot of fun and we're hanging out and connecting for a few months, but also knowing this isn't the guy for me.

I think there's kind of sex is important. So when you're having a good sexual relationship with someone, that doesn't always mean you love them. It means you have fun with them and that that actually could be a pull, but you can't be blindsided by that emotion and that hormone.

That's a challenge. That bonds a lot of people, right?

It's very bonding because there's things that happen after your orgasm, you know, where you're having all these hormones, you know, and oxytocin and all this stuff that makes you feel very close to that person. But I think we have to have conversations with ourselves, private conversations with ourselves. and look at the truth of what this is. And I was with someone and I just had the best time. And he's, you know, he was really funny and, you know, really great. Not going to be the father.

Really?

No, because for me, I wanted to know that I would find someone who loves my children as much as I do. Wow. And I wasn't gonna take anything less. Wow.

Yeah, wow, that's interesting. It sounds like, so you were married twice before, correct? And then we were talking off camera about how you met him in the same year I was born, about months before I was born. You guys met, you occurred, right?

I know, I mean, it's so crazy looking at you. 41 years ago.

I'm a man. You met him 41 years ago.

You were a man. And you came out of baby boy.

Is that crazy? A month after you guys met or you got together, I came out.

You did.

And what if you can go back to that time, how have you been able to make that work where you guys have been on to, you know, raise two different families, come together, join families and be happily together for 41 years in this industry?

We both look at each other and go, oh, my God, can you believe it? You have to want a relationship to work. You just do. I mean, there's all kinds of arguments that come up and things you don't agree on and all this stuff. And, you know, I mean, Kurt and I don't have a big, you know, we don't always align politically. And, but, you know, I like him. I, you know, whatever he thinks or all this stuff, I think, well, you know, that's his thought. So you have to individuate because your man or your woman is not ever going to be everything the perfect dream. and they're not gonna be just like you. You know, I think if I had somebody agreeing with me all the time, I'd go crazy because there's no friction. There's no, so, but when you get into these dilemmas and having a relationship to sex and all the things that go with it happen, when you're on a movie set, it really turns, it's like a family. And then you can actually create these relationships that are feel very deep, they feel very connected. And it's a caution because there could be relationships that are happening there that you're not even aware of, and all of a sudden you're realizing that's all I'm thinking about. And you've got somebody at home, boyfriend or husband or whatever. And I think men are more vulnerable in many ways because they're more, you know, sort of visually active. They don't necessarily want to marry the person. But, you know, they want to excuse the French, you know, do the French thing. And so that's kind of who, you know, how it works. And so it's fragile, you know, because you can't help but think, oh my God, I mean, he's going to work. It was such a beautiful girl. I mean, I mean, God, how's he going to resist that?

How did you navigate that when he might be on set doing, you know, intimate scene or something or with beautiful people around and how did you guys both navigate that? You're doing the different scenes as well.

You just navigate it. You just know that, you know, but she's beautiful and whatever and, you know, you realize that men are a little different than women. You know, they're, you know, they can have reactions in ways that women can hide or don't. We're much more skillful, I would say. And who got us excited? But, you know, I don't feel that we had many challenges. Really? No. I mean, I certainly-- he didn't for me, and I did for him probably a few times. I just got insecure or jealous a.

Little bit or something.

I was never jealous. That's a different word. But I've always been sort of thinking about what if. And he was so sexy and great and such a brilliant actor. But at the end of the day, through all of these things, children and parents and our parents and all the different things that you go through, the different houses you build or that you'd have or the time you are or the time you spend with your children, then your grandchildren start coming and And what happens is that if you like that person, if you want to be together, if one person doesn't want to be together because they feel they're getting older and now they have to be with a young person or to shore up their security about being a man and I'm whatever, and that happens a lot, particularly with wealthy men. So that happens. There's all this crap that can happen, right? But if two people don't want it to happen and only one does, forget it. It's not gonna work. If the two people want that because we love family, because this is where we're together, we love each other, we love to play together, we love we've got great sex together. You get through this stuff. At the end of the day, when our grandchildren start coming, you have a whole different, I would say, feeling of springtime because you kind of fall in love again.

Really? Yep.

If you've done it right, you're there for each other. And as people get older, there's more vulnerability. But if you're together, then that's supporting each other and it's very loving and it's just amazing. So these are the stages of relationships. Wow. And it depends on if you're with an abusing, abusive partner, get out. There's no question that narcissism is alive and well, and some narcissists are actually quite successful. They, most of them are. And They don't have a lot of empathy and we look at that and go, oh my God, this is terrible. And they're just awful in relationships, terrible. So if you don't, if you show them that you're, 'cause you're the supply. So let's say I have a narcissistic, which I don't, but what happens is that you become the out front person. So we call that supply. So you put out the pretty thing in the front, you put all these things out and then the next thing you know, If you say anything wrong or do anything wrong, it's a nightmare. So it's all great out front, but when they come home to home, they can really be abusive. Get out.

Yeah.

I mean, there is no cure for this. It is making the one who's being abused neurotic. And you do can get neurotic. And then you don't have self-love. Then you wonder why you're still there.

Wow.

Then you can't get out. And then he's all of a sudden the nicest person in the world or vice versa. And suddenly you're sucked back in. Now that you've got you, then there's the way it goes in. It's the worst cycle. I know a lot of women who are in relationships like this.

Wow.

And you can't get out. You can get out, but he'll follow you. There are things that'll happen because of it. There's nervousness and there's seduction. and you end up really not liking yourself. So there's a way to, I think for your own good in those relationships, you have to really individuate. You're not a couple. You're dealing with a person who needs what they call supply. In which case you have to look at yourself again, that existential examination. of who you are. And if you want to feel proud of yourself instead of feeling like an object like this, get out, support your friends, have them support you. But it's quite something. So there's, you know, two people who want to be together and are kind to each other most of the time. We're working toward the very thing that we can build to make us happy. Happiness is not anything from the outside. Cars, burn, money, thing, whatever. Happiness is what you build on the inside. Really, you know, identifying the things that make you happy. Whether it's flowers, whether it's walks, whether it's slowing down, whether it's looking at mountains, climbing mountains, being out, I've looked at a lot of nature, but It's also giving back makes you so happy. Your children, I know that can make you crazy, but just think of how wonderful they are. So that's, I think, what we have to do. Happiness starts from the inside.

That's beautiful. What do you think is the biggest lessons that your kids have taught you?

Children teach you a lot. We don't listen to them enough. What have they taught me?

Maybe not something they said as a lesson, but something from experiencing them as a fellow human being.

Yeah. Well, they will speak to what they might have had, like if I was working a lot. But I'm honestly trying to think of what they taught me. They, it's really more of what they gave me.

What did they give you?

Yeah, that's Sally. What, you know, what little gifts did they give you? I mean, my son and, I mean, you know, I just, I can't, I don't want to speak about them behind their back, but they're amazing people. And I remembered the way they made me feel and helped me see perhaps, God, I wish I'd have been there more. Oh, I didn't go to that game or that hockey game. And I was away and I took this trip, and maybe I shouldn't have taken the trip because it was like three weeks away from them when they were little. And we observe ourselves and we beat ourselves up sometimes. But I learned probably from my children that they are the most important pieces of my life. And I wish I always could have been given them more.

Really?

Yeah. But you know when they do this, may I kiss your royal ring, mommy? That's a lesson in happiness. It allows you to see what makes you happy. You know, we have this very interesting thing in our brain, which is called metacognition, which means that we can see ourselves, we can witness ourselves. So you can witness yourself. That means you go a little bit above you and watch what you're doing. Watch what you're saying. Look at it and go, Ooh, Cindy said that. Right? And so when you have this feeling of metacognition, you get to see what it is that you're in and it makes you so grateful when you're looking at what your children are sharing with you. It's the greatest It's the greatest thing in the world.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm not a parent yet, but I have been called more and more lately to want to be a parent. And I'm just curious, what lessons would you have for someone who isn't a.

Parent yet on how to- Don't overthink it. Do not overthink it. It's very natural. You have to ask yourself, what are your qualities? Are you, do you listen? Are you a good listener? Clearly you are, because I'm rambling on right now. And your anxiety around it, is it going to take too much time? You know, there's all kinds of things that interrupt your life. There's no doubt about it. Children interrupt your life.

But you were still able to have a great career and act and create.

Oh yeah. But it's especially for your first one, my third one and then, you know, that was like, oh, give me five more. But your first one and your second one's a little easier. Your third one is, you know, boom. I was never anxious. I wanted children so bad. So I never read a book on parenting. I never read a book because you have to be, Mm-hmm. Truly with your ability to manage your emotions and stress and be aware and stuff like that. It's like the natural, it was natural for me. I wasn't precious on it. It was just natural. And then what you realize is that after you go through the pregnancy, which is always beautiful for the most part, very romantic and all that, Then the baby, you know, comes out very exciting. We're all going to say. And the same thing that happened with, you know, with the first brother, let's say, and it comes along to a second child, they are all excited about the baby until it gets here.

Because all your attention's on the new baby.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, the big acting out and what they do and so forth, you know, and you realize, well, you got to pay attention to them and let them hold the baby and those things.

Right.

But having this, what's it like? You can't describe, you can't, I couldn't describe it for you. Again, it's very subjective. What it feels like to see your baby come out. That is, it's just a miracle. Wow. And when you see that and it looks a little like you and a little like this and oh my God, I mean, I, I don't, it's just such a miracle that I don't even, I mean, like, I remember I walked around pregnant all these times and every time I got pregnant, it was a blessing. And I thought, oh my God, I am the vessel carrying this human being. I'm so lucky. I get to be the harbor of the growth of a human being. And I was, beyond honored to be a female. And then I had an emergency C-section so I did all C-sections so I didn't have the birth and all that. But I did birth these children. And when I saw them, oh wow. It's just crazy. It really is. And then you think, well, what am I gonna do here? Is there chaos in the beginning? Yeah, the baby's crying, she's on the thing, goes on the breast, that's the nursing. and all that stuff. And then Daddy sometimes feels a little helpless. It's like he can't do anything. -Yeah, what do I do? Yeah, look what I do, whatever. But then you're building friendships for the rest of your life.

-Wow. How did you learn to trust in love again after, you know, a couple of marriages not working out? Now you have kids. How do you trust to love again? How do you trust someone to co-parent with you? Someone new in your life? Like how do you with these precious kids that you have, how did you do that?

It was hard, but not for long. You know, I'm, I know I needed a man to help me, you know, raise the children in an even way. I have a male influencer, love that, love them. But I never doubted, I can't explain it. I didn't live in anxiety that way. The only thing that I did right in my diary was, I wonder if I'll ever find a man that will love my children the way I do. And I was weepy that evening. I don't know if I was on my second glass of wine yet or not, but I was like, I wondered, you know, I wonder if it was possible. And it was clearly possible. Right. 41 years later.

It's incredible.

I can say it's pretty great.

Wow. How did you know that? I mean, I know you wrote it down. I wonder if it's possible. How long did it take for you to create that possibility for that moment of writing that down?

Two or three years?

Yeah. Cause some women or men will go years just, you know, dating people where they're like, this isn't the one, then they think it's never going to happen for them. So how did you keep the faith and the trust that you would attract the right person?

I was very busy working. I had my focus on the kids and I had focus on my family, daddy was still alive and my mother and all that. And I didn't fret. I just didn't. In fact, I really enjoyed having just another female in the house taking care of the kids and there wasn't a man in the house. you know, at least one that wasn't nuts. A crazy man living. No, not really. I mean, but the truth is, is that I didn't have any anxiety about that.

So you weren't anxious to be in the right relationship or to find someone on or.

No, I mean, I felt I had the wherewithal to take care of the children with help and with my mom and dad and, you know, everybody. And so I didn't, but I do remember a friend of mine who was well known, but I won't mention his name. But I remember he came home because he's a really good friend of mine. And he came home and I was, we'd just gone out to an event together and he dropped me, he didn't drop me off, he came in to see if I was okay and saw Oliver sleeping and he was in front of the TV. and he picked him up and he took him upstairs and then he came down and said, go on up there. And then when I came down, he said, I can't believe you're doing this alone.

Wow.

And that meant a lot because I was, but there was no heroism in that. There was just fun. You know, I mean, worrying is the worst thing you can do. Live your life. Enjoy the things that you enjoy. And then don't wait too long because oftentimes what happens is you get very addicted to your own way of living. I mean, I leave the light on when I do this. I do the thing in the bathroom light. I always flush the toilet three times. I'm making this up. But so when you live with somebody, it's like you think somebody's gonna take all that stuff away, you're gonna have to deal with it. It's not untrue. I mean, I said, I don't think I said for 40 years, every night Kurt said, I said, how do you turn the light out? And he said, oh, I just thought you wanted night light. I said, no, I like to sleep in the dark. 40 years. I mean, oh my God, it was so funny. He wants a night light. But I mean, it's sort of like that. But it's just you'll know. You'll meet someone and you'll know. And if you squeeze the sand too much, it'll fall right out of your hand. So hold it nice and easy.

I mean, the thing that I'm inspired by you is you have this sense of, you know, this meditation you've learned, strategies, neuroscience you're a fan of, you're a researcher of the mind, but a lot of people know you as just this successful actress, right? What made you really fascinated about understanding about the mind, neuroscience?

I had a serious anxiety problem and it was a panic attacks. And I got that when I was dancing and I was happy. I was a dancer. That's what I did. And I loved it. And I was in LA. I was so excited. And I just come back from dancing in Vegas and I went to an audition and that audition actually I got the job. I was like, oh my God, I was so excited. And my mom, I called my mom and dad, I said, oh my God, I'm gonna be on a tennis yearning for a show. And the choreographer was like so excited. He said, I'm always gonna use you and always, you know. And I was so happy. There was an agent that came up and he invited, he said to me, do you, I'm just basically covering the show at William Morris. He said, but do you have an agent? And I said, no, I don't. and he said, well, here, come and see me Wednesday after the show is over because it was going to be filmed. We were rehearsing. I didn't pay any mind to it because I just come from New York, believe me. I got as much me too issues as anybody could imagine. And I thought, another. No, no, no. You're not gonna. I get it. So they called me at my apartment in Hollywood and said, Miss Holland, blah, blah, blah. Yes. Oh, we're waiting for you. and I said, oh my God, you mean this is real? Yeah. So I got in my car, I drove to William Morris, and I sat there while they talked about me and around me, and I'm watching back in voice like, oh, oh, oh. And they said, well, if you want a designer, you can. And this was a young agent, it was a junior agent, and they signed me. About a week later, I went up for this job, Desilu Studios back in the day, and I got this job. And I went, well, wait a minute. I said to this agent, my new agent, I couldn't have gotten the job. They said that I was too young for that part. He said, no, no, they wrote in a part for you.

Wow, a different part.

A different part. And so that's what happened. And what happened was, is I then became anxious around it because I thought, first of all, I was going to eventually go home and open a dancing school and get married and be happy. And these were things I saw my life doing. Well, you can't always plan your life. In fact, you never can, as long as you stay open for the possibilities. So my point is, is that I then became anxious and then I started having panic attacks. I did not feel comfortable. I didn't want to go to Hollywood. I didn't want to be that person. I didn't want to be a star, certainly. And when I was 11 years old, people said to me, if I wanted to be a dancer, a star, doing Broadway, and I said, no, I just want to be happy. And I was 11. And I remember this, and I thought, oh, they look surprised. Interesting. But happiness is something I've always kept Premo in my mind, Premo in my mind, premier happiness. That any unhappiness that I was experiencing, I either learned for it or walk away from it. And so that's what happened. I wasn't going to be dancing anymore. I wasn't going to be a dancer anymore. My life had changed, is what happened. And so I went to a doctor. And an answer to your question, long-winded answer. And I went to a psychologist and I worked with him for eight years.

Wow, really? How old were you when you started?

21.

Okay.

And I went to him, it took me a year to start, you know, to work through. But it was the most fascinating experience. Because once again, if you're watching yourself try to get better, smarter, healthier, however, then your mind can become just a treasure trove of possibilities. It's incredible. So oddly enough, I did the Freudian way back then, and that had some brilliance to it because he created something when you said free associate, you'd have to lie down on the bed, on the, you know, what they have, you know, the small sort of reclining chair, whatever. And you had to think of, you know, whatever comes to your mind, whatever. Doesn't matter what. Could be chewing gum, Could be, you know, one time I was, one time I had an old Corvette and it was given to me for a parade or something. And it really looked like a penis. I mean, it was this long with a thing and whatever. And I drove it around and one of my things I remember saying when I laid down and pre-associated is I said, I feel like in my car, I feel like I'm driving a penis. So that was the first thing that came to my head, right? But you have to be honest and say what's coming into your head, right? You've got to be clear. It could be some terrible stuff. That wasn't so terrible, but it was the idea that I had, which I thought was kind of odd. So, you know, when you go through the examination of your own mind with freely, without censoring, this is really important to be able to grow from these various things. What happens is that you don't think, you think you're feeling fine, you go in there and you start either free associating or talking. And the next thing you know is, is you're either crying because something happened, there's all kinds of veils that get lifted from your eyes and from your vision. And that's what's so beautiful. And then, then it's like a window gets open in your brain and suddenly that fear of whatever isn't there anymore. so. So that was my interest. And I continued that. Right. So I was just learning and learning and learning at that point. I call it the University of Me. And for eight years, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then inside of that 1972, I started meditating.

Really? Wow. Before it was big.

Well, it was the Beatles then, you know, it was like my Rishi, my Shyoga, and he. He was the guy that did TM, Transcendental Meditation. And I was initiated to that. Very simple, you get a mantra and so forth.

And I can't- you- can't share your mantra, right?

No, you're not supposed to share your mantra. But I can't even explain it because it was so visceral. But it was the first time I sat down and I really focused on the quiet, the breath, the smell, the scent of the incense. The wind from the window that was moving the curtains. And I sat there and it was the most extraordinary experience for me to get out of my head and into my heart.

Wow.

And I just could feel my heart beating. I was so happy. I found my-- I kind of met myself again. Because I am a happy person by nature. And all the struggles and all those things, it just unlocked my true joy. And even today, all the time when I meditate, I just, I actually, my heart gets so full that I actually have a tear or two that comes down. Because it's just such a beautiful feeling. You know, the feeling of nothing, feeling of nothingness. and yet you're in the middle of nothingness. And yet that's when you're flourishing. I can't explain it, but it's, it was beautiful. So that's when I started meditating. And then I started learning about the brain.

Wow. So you've been meditating for 50 years. Now, did you start, when did you, I mean, we've got the, I guess the Oscars are coming up here soon after this interview. When, when did you win your Oscar? What Were you meditating by then or?

That was 1971.

So it was like right around that time, right before, right around that time.

Yeah, it was Peter Sellers' movie and I was doing that in London. And I'd been nominated for an Academy Award for my first movie, which I thought was completely crazy. And then I went to work and I was making, there's a girl in my soup in London with Peter. And I just forgot that they were on television that night. So I got a call saying, Goldie, way to go, you got it. And I said, I got what? They said, you, got the Academy Award. You won. You won Best Supporting Actress. And I went, oh, my God. I didn't know they were on television last night. Wow. And it was like one of those stories. It's just like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. You know, then I called my mom and dad, and it was just so great, but I wasn't thinking about them. I wasn't looking at that. And by the way, those days, you know, they didn't stop the music for the Academy Awards.

It wasn't the biggest thing.

No, it was big, but it was very, very local. In other words, yes, it was on television in the UK.

It wasn't a global thing.

It wasn't a global thing. You know, they weren't selling diamonds and people coming in there and going, you know, come to our room, we'll give you a diamond. It was quite different. But Fred Astaire was the one who announced my name, and that was my idol, my true idol. Wow. And I didn't get to see it.

Oh, man.

Yeah, except Jimmy Kimmel and I were on a plane, and he said, Did you ever see that clip? And I said, no. He said, I'm going to send it to you. And he sent me just, I don't know, a year ago, maybe less.

Really?

He sent it to me and it was him saying my name. And the winner is, and I heard him say my name, it was like music. And I cried. So at least I was able even all this time later to be able to have an emotional connection. Wow.

What was that? I mean, so you weren't able to accept the award on stage. This was about 50 years ago.

But- I'm more, I don't know.

A year ago, you got to watch the actual clip of being awarded. and so what is that like? I mean, that's a, that's like a, going back in time. Did you kind of relive that? If you were accepting it on stage?

No, not at all. I mean, I don't go back in time. You know, I know that there are things that remind you of what was. Right. But, but, and, and yes, you can go down memory lane and, and do all that when, and I think what I don't do is walk backwards. So it's, it's, you know, it's always, you know, what's ahead. No. That experience of watching it was emotional because I was looking at Fred Astaire. Say my name.

Pretty cool.

And that was important to me.

So what is life like after winning an Academy Award? Did you have more anxiety because there was more pressure? Did you feel more joy? You know, what was that like?

No, I didn't feel I knew that. I made a deal. when I did Cactus Flower and there were three other movies I had to do and they were all set, they were already agreed upon. I was a new fresh face, right? So really nothing happened. Really? I just worked on things like, you know, I think there's, see which one? There's a Girl in My Soup was one of them with Peter Sellers, I think. So I was paid a certain incremental amount for each movie. It wasn't anything, knock your socks off. And I just worked. And I think ultimately, when you start, you know, look at your life and everything, because I was a ballet dancer from three and worked that way all the way. I'm a worker bee. I mean, I just work. I either make movies, I decided to produce, you know, and I made these decisions for very practical reasons. Nothing to make my career better, but only to make my ability to control what I did because I felt that I wasn't going to be the Meryl Streep of the world. I was going to be a special kind of strange entity. Yes, funny, yes, this and that other. But so I felt producing was probably smart because then I could pick and choose, you know, what I wanted to do to throw light on in society or, you know, for either for women or for people that we'd wanted to produce movies for. So I was kind of a business person to tell you the truth of looking at that and looking at what we can make funny that's actually quite serious.

Well, I mean, as a, you mentioned how you were in ballet, you wanted to be a dancer, you wanted to open a dancing school, but then life shifted for you and you had more opportunities, right? You had opportunities to act and do other things. How did you let go of this dream you had your entire life of being a dancer and opening a dance in school? How did you let go of it and mourn it, even though you had other success and opportunities coming your way?

Well, I don't know that I mourned it after I've been doing so much work on myself, you know? Yeah. I didn't mourn it. It was just a reality. And by the way, it was pretty great, you know? I was doing a lot of movies. I was doing stuff. I was fascinated by what I was doing. I loved it. And also, Just to let you know, I had done some acting. So it wasn't just a dancer. I mean, I did Romeo and Juliet in Lake Matoaka Amphitheater, which was about 3,000 people in the open amphitheater. And it started to rain. And I think it's probably one of the greatest things that's ever, you know, other than my children and the Academy Award, or Dolan Globes or whatever, was my father. went to, I was dancing there, but I wanted to play Juliet. And I got the part. And these are all like high level actors from Catholic University and all this stuff. I was about 8-17, maybe 17. And I got the part and I learned all of it in about two weeks. It just shows you a young brain. And then I did it and then it was like the sky opened up. It was raining, and it was an amphitheater. And I was doing the speech, you know, the, what do you call it? The potion speech? And no one left the theater. It was unbelievable. And I didn't know whether to stop or go on.

Just pouring down on you in the middle of the scene.

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't pouring, but it was definitely-- it was raining. So anyway, then, but my dad came back, and my father was, The greatest. He was a musician. He had the mind of a musician. He was incredible. But anyway, he wasn't always the one that would throw his arms and, you know, I love you, honey, you know, that. He was very pristine and elegant. And he came back and I was standing there backstage and he said, Go. Where did you learn to do that? And he was just lost it. And for me, that was the greatest moment for me.

Wow.

As an actress, I mean, truly, truly, truly. My father was so taken aback, so proud of me. And that mattered so much to me. So that was one thing. So in all do whatever, I had acted before.

Sure, sure. Wow. What was the greatest lesson that your parents each taught you?

Be real. Be real. Look at reality. Reality is basically what you're gonna live with and any expectation isn't. My father was a great philosopher. And my mother told me, let me tell you something. There's many people on the casting couch. But you, when you're up for a job, you better be ready. You better be ready and you better be appropriately, well, basic, not appropriately. You better be aware that what you need to do, oh, I know what she said, because it's not the producers that are gonna make you a star or make you get the job. It's the people that will love you, the people that will be able to want you back again for whatever reason. It was very kind of prophetic because.

I know- Audiences, people.

Audience, she said, it's the audience that you have to win.

Not the producers or casting directors.

No, no. You prove that you know what you're doing. You've worked on your craft. You be ready when the time comes.

How do you win over an audience if the producer or casting director doesn't give you the opportunity or the roles?

Well, that's if they do.

When they do makes you win over the audience.

Yes, yeah. I mean, that's obviously they didn't, when they don't, you know, they're those guys.

Right, right, right.

Those guys, especially if you don't put out.

How do you master your craft to win over an audience, whether it be music, art, dance, film?

You can't answer that question. You don't master your art in order to do anything. You master your art to be able to create something. that starts in your heart. It's art, there are many forms of art, painting as well. But this feeling of, it's like people used to say to me, 'cause my father's a musician, do you play an instrument? I said, yes, I play myself. I play my body, I play myself because I'm also an instrument. So in a way, you can't describe what that feels like when you're in the flow. And I think the only outcome is that you know, you know, it's like, you know, people that actually know it was all the sports or all the aerobics or all the acrobatics or, you know, the gymnasts or whatever. They know they landed properly. You know, they know their balance is perfect. you just kind of know. And so that's the difference between thinking too much. You're asking a lot of questions about what do you think when this happens? What do you think with that? And how do you prove if you're whatever? And I love it, I love the questions. But some of them there are not always the right on answers because art and creating art is a is so deep, you know, and how we get these ideas on writing or how, like, I got my idea on what I'm doing with children. That stuff comes to you in the strangest ways. So that's the part of feeling free to improvise with your mind, you know?

That's powerful. What was the art that you created? that you were most proud of. Maybe it was a big hit, maybe no one liked it at all, but you were most proud of on how it made you feel and how you showed up for the.

Well, there's a few. So, you know, it's just not just one. I mean, because everything has its own personality. I think Steven Spielberg and I did a movie together, his first movie, and probably that would be one of the ones I felt. just completely aligned in the best way.

Really?

Yeah. Sugarland Express. He was young. I was young, similar age, maybe a year or so apart. We had the best time. Wow. And it was a really wonderful movie about a young girl who really had a baby, and she was in a low security prison. It's a true story. And then she breaks her husband out of another security because he's They're just kind of stupid people, you know, that now, I mean, not everybody's gonna say how the stupid, but it's kind of like she was just hell-bent on getting her baby back. Because those, the, the people there that have them as a social, you know, services and they had the baby.

Right.

It's a fantastic movie and very much of its time.

We'Re off. What's it called?

Sugarland Express. Steven Spielberg's first film. And I was honored to be in it. And he said to me, Goldie, you know, you approved me for that movie. And I said, what? He said, yeah, if you hadn't approved me, I wouldn't have done it. And I went, oh, my God. I mean, that's too much to put on my shoulders.

Wow.

Glad I did his first movie. Yeah, because I, I was already, like, laughing. I had a basic deal at, at Universal, you know, as producer.

Wow.

I started young.

That's amazing.

I know. So it's a lot of dancing school, you know, at 16 and 17. I was already in Maryland, which is where I'm from, I created a dancing school. I advertised in my mother's store, the window. I mean, so sometimes that's in you.

You had that hustle, that mindset, yeah. Exactly.

I don't know. how and where of them, how that will happen.

I'm curious about, you know, why you decided to create your foundation, Mind Up Foundation for kids, which is really about giving them tools and resources to be more mindful.

Yes, to actually have more agency over their emotions, which is what we're dealing with today. We don't ask our children In other words, we ask them, sorry, to learn, but we don't give them any pathway to understanding their brain. And that's exactly what we do. But what happened when I, the reason I got that is because I was doing a documentary in Search of Joy, because I believe that we as humans are not experiencing, especially in the developed world, enough happiness.

Why do you think that is?

There's a lot of things that could be, you know, over, I mean, very industrialized places. London was very low on the happiness scale. The UK, we had what country was on the high level of happiness? When the, the more you get into the third world, the more you find out people that are actually happier.

Isn't that interesting?

Yeah, it's very interesting.

Why do you think Certain cities, not all cities, but certain cities with more wealth and more opportunities have less happiness than other places in the world with potentially less opportunities and wealth have greater happiness.

Well, first of all, Denmark was one of the centers for the happiest people in the world. But there's also a financial sort of socialism, okay? The one thing that was discovered about happiness is if people had just enough money to get by, doctors taken care of, schools paid for, that basically the system took care of them in a way where they didn't have the anxiety around all of those things. That particular aspect of that, which I thought was pretty amazing, because you don't pay much to go to the hospital, you don't pay. and all of it says, well, socialized medicine is not great. But I can tell you one thing, if you're happier, you'll be healthier. So this was one of them. And okay, so I want to do this documentary in Search of Joy Around the World, which I started, we were talking to HBO, and it was very interesting because everybody's great. That's interesting. Now, what is it? But is it, it's searching for more happiness. It's understanding that this is a mosaic of what's going on in the world, which was interesting because it became a cottage industry, but happiness, 'cause this was 23 years ago.

Wow.

So now 9/11 happens and I'm involved with the brain, involved with happiness, understanding where it sits, you know, where does happiness exist? How does it affect the brain? and I then decided that these children are going to be traumatized from this 9/11 and that I want to be able to create something that can put in their classroom where they can create more optimism, more happiness. And so I took, you know, what I was doing and created Mind Up. And I wanted to give that to them, but I wanted to give it to them because Just changing a few things and making the classroom an optimistic classroom, making it a place to have an ethos, which is happiness and positivity. That would help the children feel happier and better because I could see that they were really not, they were showing signs. And when I found out that 10-year-old children were committing suicide back then, I lost it, 'cause I can't even talk about that. When I killed children who are so young are taking their lives, it's sort of, who's doing what wrong? You know? And so now, now I made that, it just was part of my life. And what I did was, is I had it measured the program, because it teaches how the brain, basically the emotional brain works, not the whole brain, but they learn about that. And they learn about the amygdala, the prefrontal cortex, which is the thinking brain, the amygdala, which is the reactive brain, and the part of the brain and the hippocampus, which is where we remember. So once they learn about all these parts and what they do, which is very simple, is that they know our brain break that we do three times a day in the classroom allows them to have a correlation and a cognition to what's going on in their brain and how they can regulate their emotions and open up the prefrontal cortex to think, analyze, figure out, experience happiness, have the questions and memorize better. I cannot tell you that we, they, this is, I didn't do this, this was University of British Columbia, they researched it. And the research was so extraordinary with these children, even to a point where they said, they could make themselves happier, 83%, which is that I just lost it when I saw that. Because we need to make ourselves happier. We need to find a way to do that. And the children, you know, basically that was part of the research. They said now they could make themselves happier. It was so great that we had to do another research because we can't believe this with these children are experiencing and which the educators, So now we do another research in another town in Vancouver. Same thing.

Wow.

Okay. And that's when I said, All right, I know I'm Goldie Hawn. I know people think I'm funny. I know I'm not a scientist, but I had a dream for children and it worked.

Wow.

And so that's when I said, Now I can own it. because the research speaks for itself. So this is what I've been doing for 21 years.

That's amazing.

We have 150, I mean, millions of children have gone through this program because it was published by Scholastic and it went all over the world. So we have kids in China, we've got kids in Shanghai, I mean, Shanghai, Hong Kong, I mean, they're all over, just Portugal, Spain, Italy, basically the UK was a big one, over well over 150,000 children doing it.

These schools are following these programs though.

Yes, and it's right in New York City, we have 150 schools so far.

And so they take these little brain breaks throughout the day, is that what you're saying?

Yes, so the brain break, which is basically takes three minutes, we ring a chime, and the reason we ring the chime, this is not spiritual stuff, we're doing it so the brain attaches to that sound. and it immediately will be like Pavlov's dog. They relax, their brain starts to calm down. All the things with the amygdala is like a barking dog. So when it gets excited, when it's got uncertainty and fear and anger and, you know, all this stuff, that's the area where we have to, you know, we have to calm that down. Once they know, they breathe and they hear the chime and they sit for, you know, it's all takes three minutes. They know now their amygdala is not barking anymore and they actually feel better, they're calmer, they know how to manage their emotions. That's how they do it.

It's fascinating because I had the brain surgeon on the show a couple of times. Yeah. Who's also a PhD in neuroscience. He's done over a thousand brain surgeries, but also studied the mind with neuroscience.

I love that guy.

And I asked him, his name's Rahul, Dr. Rahul John D. And I asked him, what's the number one skill you wish all human beings could learn to master? And he said, emotional regulation. This is a brain surgeon, neuroscientist talking about this.

And so, how can we realize that if we had that, where we'd be.

Today, we'd be a lot happier.

We would be. And we'd not be in strife the way we are in America right now. We'd have to be able to look really critically at how, where this is getting us.

Yes.

You know, and that's a big, big part of regulating your temper. Same thing with relationships. Come on, guys. I mean, we've got to know how to self-regulate this because why say things that are terrible? That nobody forgets, words are like daggers. So it really gives you the opportunity to stop, hold on, and then decide to say, maybe in a more skillful way, But man, you know, so that reactivity is dangerous. And we've seen a lot of people have that and mentioning no names. So that's very damaging.

Wow.

So he was right. And we agree. Yay. And I'm not a neuroscientist.

How can we support this? It's MindUp.org, but what can people do to be of support to this mission you're on?

Well, thank you, sweetie. It's money, really. I mean, anytime you've got a foundation, I mean, no money, no mission. And we've been doing this for a long time and I don't like to ask for money. It's not my thing to do. But you realize that when you see these children, of course, I mean, it's just, I have to tell you one story though. I love these kids so much. So this little boy was basically non-verbal, autistic. And he came into the school in New York City. and when he was kindergarten. So now he's in fourth grade and he's doing much better. And I heard about him before I met him, 'cause I went to the school just recently, about three weeks ago. He is more verbal. He's sweetest thing on God's earth. And so the principal asked him if he would like to come into her office over the PA system, and rang the chime. And he said, Yes. So he went upstairs, he went to the office, he rang the chime, and then he shared and guided the entire brain break. Sid quietly put your hands in. He remembered all of it. She called your office in New York and said, I have to tell you this because this is an autistic child. he couldn't speak when he came in. The fact that he understood the brain break. So that's what I'm saying. You know, he's learning how to self-regulate himself.

Wow.

And you know, there's, there's a, when you, when you, when you feel like that, you've done something. That's you that did it.

Yeah.

And so, ah, I love it so much. How about I'm still passionate after 21 years?

That's amazing.

It's like making a movie for 21 years. One movie. It's like, yeah, yeah. Producing one movie. It's like, I don't know. I just got, what is it? Tenacity and love in my heart.

I can only think.

That's beautiful. So money is really about, you know, it doesn't matter how much, but if you could give a bit to, you know, mindup.org, it has a thing donate now. But it would be awesome.

That's beautiful. Well, I'm going to go to mindup.org and make a donation today for you. So I appreciate the mission you're on, the cause you're on to help kids. Thank you, sweetheart. This has been beautiful, Goldie.

I appreciate you.

I want to ask you a couple final questions, if that's okay. Yeah, it's fine. But I want people to go to mindup.org, check it out. Even if you don't donate, just go check it out and see how you can be a part of it in some way. But if you can give some money, give some money as well.

Of course.

Mindup.org you're on social media, Goldie Hawn as well, everywhere. But mindup.org is the main place for people to go. A couple final questions for you, Goldie. Before I ask them, I just wanted to acknowledge you for the realness that you have. your parents said, like, the real be real is a great lesson. And this is, since the moment you walked in to this moment, you've been real this whole time. And I appreciate that East Coast vibe that you bring, that East Coast energy, you know? So I want to acknowledge you for one, living a life authentic and true to you and pursuing your dreams, but also being a great mother, being a great partner in relationship. And also using your talent, your time and your money to invest in a cause that you care about with this foundation with kids. So I really acknowledge you for just an incredible journey that you've been building and creating for yourself. And also, like I said before, that your kid, your adult children want to spend a lot of time with you. For me, that's a big measure of success in my mind when adult kids want to hang out with their parents still.

Yeah.

So you've been doing something right. So I acknowledge you for all these things. Yeah, Anchors, yes, exactly. But I acknowledge you for all of that. And I can't wait to see what else you continue to create on this beautiful journey.

Thank you.

Thank you. This question I asked everyone towards the end of my interview is called the Three Truths. So it's a hypothetical scenario. Imagine you get to live as long as you want. But it's the last day. You get to continue to create everything. Your mission continues to build in bigger ways. You do more movies or whatever you want to do, you continue to do it. But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your art and work and content with you to another place. So no one has access to your movies. This conversation is gone. Your two books that you've written, you know, all these things for some reason, It's all gone, hypothetical scenario. And on the last day, you get to leave behind only three things, three lessons you would share with the world. I call it the three truths. So we wouldn't have access to any other content of yours except for these three things. What would those three lessons or three truths be for you?

Well, obviously the first truth would be happiness is one of the more important emotions to nurture throughout your lifetime. Don't believe everything you read. Don't concretize your thoughts and your opinions. Allow them to change if they will. So there.

I love it. I love it.

That's a great question, though. Thank you.

Yeah, I appreciate it. That's good answers. Final question, Goldie. What is your personal definition of greatness?

Well, my father said, Don't ever stop appreciating a good glass of water. And that's pretty great. So I always say, start with doing something new. It can be as simple as as driving a different way to work, or a different way to a friend's house, whatever, or walking a different way, just so that your eyes can see something it's never seen before. Something new that shifts the brain, right?