How I Went From BROKE To Achieving My DREAMS... (& You Can Too) | Lewis Howes

What's the biggest mistake, failure you wish you could have avoided? So many mistakes I've made in my entire life. Here's the thing, I don't know if I would take back any of these things because I wouldn't have the wisdom that I have now without those mistakes and the lessons and the learning. And so when I launched the School of Greatness 10 years ago, I was in it, I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really?

Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. Hey everyone, welcome to this special episode today. I'm very excited to connect with you on something meaningful me because today's episode marks a day that I've only dreamed about when I first started this show, the School of Greatness. Today we are celebrating our 10 year anniversary here at Greatness Media and the School of Greatness Show. And I wanted to reflect back on the past 10 years on a lot of different things, what I would have done differently, and also answer questions from you, the fans of the show who have been here for 10 years, because we got a lot of questions submitted for this specific episode on business, life, what I would do differently and things like that. Before I get into Q&A on all these questions that you guys have sent me, which I'm excited to dive into. I wanted to reflect a little bit about the past. And I've been thinking about the overall journey of myself, about Greatness Media, where we started, where we're heading, and where we're at today. There's been a lot of ups and downs for me personally over the last 10 years with the business. Some years have been up, some years have been down. We've tried a lot of different things based on just seeing here are opportunities. Let's go jump into that opportunity. That worked or didn't work. There's been a lot of different things that have happened in 10 years, but we are kind of now finally in a place where I feel like we're actually able to accelerate. I kind of feel like we're just getting started for the first time, because it's been 10 years of trying, testing, and building, and now we're ready to ramp things up. And people have asked me over the years, you know, Louis, what are the secrets to launching a podcast? What are like the ways you could hack it faster? If you were gonna launch it today, what would you do? and there really aren't that many things you can hack your way to accomplishing what you want. There are obviously things you could accelerate, there are things you can do a little bit better, but I have realized that there are really only three things that I have done consistently that have supported me to getting from where I was with one show and one listener using my iPhone when I first started out, I literally recorded in my living room on an iPhone to where it is now over half a billion downloads later, over 1300-1400 episodes deep, multiple best-selling books, and just an incredible growth overall for me personally and with the business, all from having a dream and curious about asking questions to people. And when I launched back in 2013, I realized I had a gift in terms of not being afraid of being perfect. And I think a lot of people are concerned with launching something or getting started with something and needing it to look perfect and be perfect. And for me, it was never perfect and it's still not perfect today. You know, Mike is in here producing the show. We still are finding ways to optimize and deliver better performance on the way we produce it, pre-produce it, film it, you know, audio, video, all these different things. It's still not perfect today. and I think perfectionism is a distraction and it holds us back from actually launching the thing and actually giving our best. And I don't think you can be great if you're trying to be perfect. I don't think greatness is about being perfect. I think that again holds us back from getting into flow. So I want to talk about three key things that I've learned in the last 10 years. If you were to ask me, Lewis, how has this really been successful for you in getting to where you're at. There's really three key things. Number one, I never missed a week. You know, I never missed a week in 10 years. I showed up. I was consistent. And again, it was, it's never been perfect. I've never had the perfect episode, the perfect video, the perfect audio, the perfect sound bite. It's never been perfect. There's always something I could improve. And some weeks I showed up when I didn't want to. Some weeks I didn't feel my best. Some weeks I thought I did a horrible job preparing and a horrible job being present and asking the wrong questions. Some weeks I felt like the guests didn't really show up the best of their ability also. And some weeks I was burnt out and overwhelmed. But at the end of the day, I kept showing up. For me, consistency has been the number one thing. I was telling a friend this recently, a person who has made a ton of money in their life, exited a massive business, and they were telling me that they wanted to launch a podcast. And they said, do you have any advice? And I said, yes, do not do a podcast. Do not launch a podcast unless you want to do it for a minimum of five years. You'll do it consistently, even if no one shows up, even if no one watches, no one listens, and if you make $0. If that excites you and you still would want to show up and do it, then launch a podcast. Otherwise, it's just a lot of energy, a lot of work, and you got to know why you want to do it. So for me, I've been and I've done it consistently even when I didn't want to do it. I just kept showing up consistently. That was the first overall foundation. But I want to talk about kind of three key things that have supported me on this journey. But if you're not willing to be consistent, then it's just not going to work. It's not going to be successful long term. So go into it thinking, Can I do this consistently? Whatever it is, if I'm going to write content, if I'm going to launch a podcast, I'm going to do anything, start a business, can I show up consistently with all the world challenges, with all my inner world challenges, with all my friends and family challenges, with financial challenges that are going to come up? Can I be consistent? That is the baseline and foundation. But here's the thing, something I did from the beginning, I knew I could be consistent from playing sports and doing the business that I had before, where I was showing up weekly for myself doing webinars, I knew that I could be consistent because I was excited about it. And I knew that I was going to do it for at least a year without making any money. I made that decision I wasn't going to try to make money. So I went into it with the right reasons. That was the foundation. But if I was going to give you three keys to really focus on if you wanted to launch your own show or do anything great at a high level, this would be the key number one. I've had a lot of reflection over the last 10 years. Interviewed some of the greatest minds in all different areas of life. done a lot of research on their science of what works, what doesn't work. And I'm super pumped about the greatness mindset. If you haven't picked up a copy yet, make sure you get a copy of this because I have created the entire framework with my team in this book that will support you in figuring this out. And in chapter three, chapter three, I give the first key of this episode. And it's about developing a meaningful mission. Now, again, in this chapter, I break down the entire framework on how you can create this for yourself. When I launched this show, I was very clear on the meaningful mission, which was to serve 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life. I didn't have a fuzzy target. I didn't say, I just want to do this because I think it'd be fun. I had a very clear target in bullseye on which I was aiming at and trying to strive towards. I didn't know how long it would take. We still haven't accomplished that goal in 10 years. Still on that mission. It's a meaningful mission. And there's a difference between success and greatness. Success is about our goals, our dreams. It's about me, me, me. It's about what we can accomplish. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's fine. We can all have goals and dreams that are geared towards us and what we want. And we should have those things. But I think again, there's a difference between success and greatness. Greatness includes success, but also supporting the people around you on that path of accomplishing your goals and dreams. It's about we, not just me. And so when I launched the School of Greatness 10 years ago, I was in a transitional point in my life. From wanting things to be about me to then saying, okay, this hasn't been working fully. It's accomplishing things. I'm making money. I'm getting people to pay attention at what I'm doing. but I still felt unfulfilled. And it wasn't until I said, I'm going to shine the light on everyone else. I'm going to make a show about others. I'm going to make it about them, not about me. I'm going to lift them up. I'm going to be curious. I'm going to support their books, their programs, their events. I'm going to push them and serve an audience. That's when everything started to grow and the fulfillment internally was also there. And this is one of the things that I think people lack the consistency and the discipline, which has been the foundation of the success of the School of Greatness, is the ability for me to be excited about it consistently, even when there's a lot going on in my life, even when I don't feel like it, even when I feel like I need a week off. I still have the excitement to show up because there's a deeper, meaningful mission beyond just me. That is a renewable, sustainable energy. that is something that charges on its own. It doesn't require me having extra discipline and motivation and only helping my life. It helps other people around me and it never gets old. It never gets old when you message me, when you reach out to me, when you say hi to me on the streets and you say, man, I listened to this one episode that you brought this person on and it changed my life. That never gets old for me. If you just said, oh, thanks, Louis, for having all the answers and teaching me these things. you're so smart. That wouldn't be as rewarding as thank you for providing a platform and a place for us to learn. Thank you for putting yourself out there and being a guinea pig and being vulnerable and looking like a fool sometimes and making mistakes so that we can learn from your mistakes as well. That is more rewarding for me than me being the guy with my name plastered on everything and making it all about my show. It's about our show. It's about you, the audience. It's about the guests we bring on. Yes, I'm going to share things as well from what I learned, but it's always been about we, not just me. And I want to continue to make it that way to the best of my abilities. Now, I know a lot of you guys want me to do more solos. You want me to share more of my wisdom, and that's why we did this in the book, and we'll be doing more of that this year and beyond. But it's always going to be about we with the intention of service first. So in this book, I talked about again in chapter three, building your meaningful mission. And so many of you, I would guarantee, If you ask yourself right now in one sentence, what is my meaningful mission? I bet most of you don't know what it is for your personal life, for your career, or if you're building a business for your business. I am clear. It's not fuzzy. It doesn't mean it's easy to accomplish. It doesn't mean again, I've been working on it for 10 years. It still hasn't happened. But I'm clear and allows me to make clear decisions and allows me to measure things and it allows me to feel fulfilled. because I know that my goals include a lot of other people. It's not just about me accomplishing, it's about us improving and growing. And most of you, I would bet, that you don't have a clear one sentence meaningful mission. Again, I talk about it in chapter three of this book on exactly how to get this figured out. The science and the research behind why it's so important. If you don't have your meaningful mission, how it's going to continue to make you feel in fear, insecurity, doubt, uncertainty, and why you feel like I'm not just clear on what I'm supposed to do. So that is number one. Get clear on your meaningful mission, and it must include more than just your goals and dreams. It must include others. Now, again, there are certain nuances to this, you know, depending on what season and stage of life you're in. So I want you to get clear on that understanding and not feel like you're a failure. If you don't have this figured out right now, it's okay. There's different seasons of life. We can change this meaningful mission at different times. If you don't feel like you haven't figured it out right now, it's okay. You can continue to improve in this process. But that is step number one, getting clear on that. Step number two is really about being clear on investing in yourself continually. There are three main fears that cause us to doubt ourselves. Three things that hold us back from doing anything, whether it be having meaningful relationship with someone we care about, having the courage to have conversations with people when we feel like there's a misunderstanding going after the career or building something we want, whatever it is, there are three main things that cause us to doubt ourselves. Three fears. And I'm a big believer that self-doubt is the killer of dreams. And if we have self-doubt inside of us and we don't know how to recognize it, manage it and master it. We will continue to feel stuck, continue to feel insecure at the different stages of our life. So again, in the book, I break down how to figure out which one of these fears holds you back the most. But for me, I feel like over the last 10 years, I've been willing to invest in embarrassing myself consistently, putting myself out there and saying I don't have all the answers. I'm willing to try workshops and try meditations and do therapy and talk to friends about challenges I face and hire coaches or whatever it might be. I've been willing to be vulnerable to put myself out there and try stuff. Some stuff worked for me, some stuff didn't work for me. Some stuff I was resistant to, other stuff I was open to. But the more consistent that I've said, I got to continue to work on my inner world, my belief, in myself overcoming fears and insecurities, the more powerful the process has been. And I am never going to be a finished product. It's always going to be a journey of growth and transformation. But I can honestly say that at this stage, I feel more peace in my heart, more calm about who I am than I ever have in my life. And it's because I've been consistently working on me, improving me, and going to the emotional gym. If you want to stay in great shape and stay physically healthy, you've got to be consistent in your health, your physical health. If you want to have great relationships and you want to have great confidence in yourself, you've got to constantly be emotionally evolving, emotionally transforming and be consistent in it. You can't stay stuck in the old patterns that won't support you in getting to the next level of your emotional life as well. So for me, that's been a big thing and I think as a man growing up, that was never something that was talked about. That was never something that was supported, that was celebrated or seen. And it's been a big transformation in my life for the last 10 years, being willing to invest in overcoming my insecurities and fears that I wasn't even aware of. And I was so driven by ego that I thought I had it all figured out before 10s of years ago. And now I'm open to exploring and trying new things. Even if I don't feel like it may not work for me, I'm still open to it. and that has been a massive factor in the success of the financial growth of my business, the success of my health, the success of my relationships, all these different things that I've been able to create. I can honestly say that investing in my emotional belief, emotional healing, emotional environment internally has been the key to so much abundance in my life. And so again, we talk about this in the greatest mindset on how to recognize which fear holds you back. Because we all have a dominant fear between failure, success or judgment. And if you can identify it first, lean into it and start to embrace and overcome it, it's going to unlock a lot of different things in your life. So we've created that whole process in the Greatness Mindset book. Again, I want you to go get a copy so you can have access to that information on how to do this to be more successful in this. And the third thing is Team. This is extremely simple that there's no way that I would be able to do what I'm doing without an amazing team, without people on this team who are clear that they are aligned with the mission as well. They are on the same mission of we're here to serve, we're here to create something meaningful to help the people in this community. You who's listening, you who's watching, you who's reading and consuming, we are here to create meaningful media that serves you in improving the quality of your life. That's what we're all here to do. And they join the team with that intention. They know what this is about and they are all in on that process. And I think it's finding great people who want to be a part of that same mission. But if you're not clear on your meaningful mission, you're going to attract the wrong people because you're not clear. So finding great people, investing in your team, celebrating your team, supporting them, being there for the team to help them flourish, to help them grow is something that has been really a key factor for me. I'm not saying you're going to do it right all the time and know what to do all the time, but really saying how can I find the right people on my team. This can be your friends, your family, your relationships, those things as well. It doesn't have to be people on your business team, but in every area of your life, who is on your team? who is supporting you and who are you supporting and investing in those relationships. Again, the School of Greatness would not be where it is without the people on Team Greatness who make it great. They're the ones driving everything and they're the ones with talent supporting you, listening to you, finding all the stuff that's gonna support you and unlocking the content to help you as well. So those are the three things. and my team has reached out over on social media in our newsletter and asked for you guys to submit questions. And so what I want to do is kind of do some Q&A, some coaching and diving into answering some of the biggest questions you guys have around this and more things right now. But again, to recap that, number one, you got to have the foundation of consistency with all things. So if you don't go with the mindset, I'm going to do this consistently for many, many years, whatever it is you want to do is not going to work out, period. After the foundation is set, you got to have those three factors. Those three factors are going to support you in really developing the thing you want to create, putting it out there consistently and making it successful. The first one is creating a meaningful mission. And again, chapter three of the greatness mindset walks you through the entire process of creating that. Make sure you get the books. You have access to that. Second part is building belief in yourself consistently, overcoming those fears, identifying them so that anytime anxiety, overwhelm, stress, insecurity shows up, you've already faced it and addressed it. So that's not gonna be the thing that holds you back. Again, self-doubt is the killer of all dreams. If you don't believe in yourself, you will not take action. So you've gotta master that thing. And when you can do that, then you can focus on, okay, how can I get people on my team, friends, family, accountability buddies, if I'm investing in people, in their livelihood, in their lives. How can I invest in them knowing that they're gonna be a part of this meaningful mission? Those are the three things that will support you in facing the challenges that are to come no matter what you do when you launch your thing. You will face challenges and adversity. And adversity reveals character. It reveals all these different things that are gonna happen for you personally and the people around you. When anyone on your team or you individually feels resistance, faces adversity, you're going to get to know who these individuals are and it's going to give you power and information on how to support them and empower them to be elevated for your mission. That's what this is about. And what I want to do now is I want to dive into these Q&As and answer some of these questions.

Congratulations, Louis, on 10 years of the School of Greatness, amazing achievement and wishing you lots of years ahead. So my question to you is, What would you say to yourself of 10 years ago when you were starting out based on everything that you've learned, all of the amazing guests you've had on your podcast, what would you say to yourself back then 10 years ago? All the best, God bless.

I think I would probably just say that get ready for a wild ride. Get ready for a wild ride. And if I could go back and give myself advice, I would say don't get too distracted. In some ways, I feel like it was a good thing for me to try lots of different stuff in the first, you know, five to seven years because I wasn't educated still. I still needed to try things. I brought on a lot of different things in my business. But at the end of the day, if I could go back knowing what I know now, I would say just do a few key things at a really high level. Do them to the best of your ability and stay focused. I think I got distracted and tried so many things and they were fun opportunities and they were great for a while, but I think I would be farther along had I been focused on a few key things that I was really excited about as opposed to trying lots of different things. Hi, Louis.

I guess my question for you is.

I want to know what brings out.

The excitement in you, the thing that.

Makes you want to jump up, you know, what What is it that really.

Just makes you want to go all in on something? That's what I want to know.

You know, for me, I think I'm wired in a certain way where I just really care about people. I really care about people. And I think a lot of it, if I'm psychoanalyzing myself from childhood, I think I just went through so many different experiences that made me feel like, what's the point of all this? Like, you know, does any of this matter? Why am I here? I think I questioned these things a lot as a kid. And I really want people to feel supported in this journey because I didn't feel the support that I felt like I wanted and needed at different stages of my life. And it wasn't because my parents weren't good parents or anything like that. I just didn't have the tools and I felt like school was extremely challenging for me and I wish they would have given me these tools on emotional intelligence, on how to lead myself better, on how to deal with failure better, on how to deal with being insecure and deal with heartbreak. I just didn't have the tools and it left me suffering in many different ways. So I really get fired up and excited about supporting other people and having those exact same tools that I feel like I had to learn the hard way When I hit 30 years old, that's when I really started to dive in and say, okay, I got to learn these things. Certain things have worked for me, but in other ways I'm struggling and suffering and these tools have given me a lot of peace and just being able to manage things better. Again, in no way am I perfect. I'm still a completely imperfect human being that makes mistakes and has challenges, but I feel way more at peace through all the constant inner work and growth that I do for myself and the accountability. That's what gets me excited.

Hi, Lewis. Thank you for all your hard work and your dedication to your podcast for.

The past 10 years. I'd like to know how after you feel more well with yourself to take the first step into really embodying and taking action in your greatness.

Thank you.

It's all an inner game. you know, I feel like from interviewing a lot of the great athletes, they talk about the inner game and mastering the inner game and finding stillness inside so that they can perform at the highest levels in their craft when the stakes are at the highest. They've got to be calm and still on the inside so they can master and manage what's going on around them. And again, in the book, we break down the exact science and the research of how to figure out what's making you feel unwell, what's making you feel insecure, flustered, resistant to what's happening in life. Why are you resisting having those conversations that you know would help mend relationships? Why are you resisting looking at the scale when you know you haven't been eating as well as you should be? Why are you resisting getting out, ending an addiction, something that's been hurting you? Why are you resisting it? and there is a root cause to a lot of these things that make us feel unwell. It took me about 25 years to figure that out because I was masking, trying to project feeling good and confidence, false confidence in the world. And it wasn't until I said, okay, I'm willing to open up internally and face the things that I was struggling with. And I didn't even know that I was really struggling with something. I just knew that I felt stuck and I felt like I couldn't sleep at night, but I didn't think anything was wrong with me. and there's not something wrong with me or with you, but just what's the thing that's holding me back? And once I was able to dive into that and be in a process of upgrading that belief that I had, it supported me in a lot of different ways. So again, in the greatest mindset, we exactly walk through that entire process if you're feeling that way. It's an absolute pleasure submitting this question for you, Louis. My question is, over the last 10 years, you have asked your guests what are their three truths if they could wipe everything out? And they only have three things for us to know about them. I'm asking you over the last decade, what are your three truths and how did they evolve over the last decade? Talk to you soon. Great question. I've answered this a few times over the years because people ask me sometimes. But what's coming up for me right now is three key things. one is health. And, you know, I'm not 30 years old anymore. It's been a decade since I've launched this show and I've seen people that I've interviewed pass away based on being unwell or being sick. I've seen friends pass away. My father passed away last year. And, you know, with COVID happening, a lot of people struggling in their health, the most important thing for us to face first is health. With good energy spiritually, physically and emotionally, we have more clarity, peace and space to create, to show up, to play, to have fun, to do all those things. And so first is to focus on and be responsible of taking care of your health. Don't hurt yourself. Don't be a critic to yourself constantly. Be a positive coach. Don't constantly eat bad foods. Try to make better choices there. And really set yourself up to take care of your body. It's the only body you've got. So make sure you take care of it. That's number one. Number two is having a gratitude practice, a gratitude mindset, whatever you want to call it, but being in gratitude. there are a lot of things that you'll face and that you have faced in your childhood and to now that are challenges. And some of us face a lot of really bad things. And we can't change what happened, but we can create meaning on what happened and try to create perspective and try to have gratitude for how it's made us a better person and trying to become better from the different challenges that we face. so practicing gratitude for me is the thing that unlocks abundance, it unlocks peace, it unlocks love, it unlocks joy, all those things. So being grateful, it's hard to be grateful and angry at the same time, but when we're angry, usually we don't have gratitude. And when we start to make that shift, we can go from anger to gratitude and have more peace. So focus on gratitude. The third thing is be in service in life and most importantly, be in service in your relationships. I just, you know, after interviewing all these successful people, the ones that I respect and admire the most, specifically the men who are more seasoned than me, let's say, the ones who have more years, more experience, they live in service to the people in their lives, to the missions they're on, and they really care deeply about relationships. So be in service in your life and be in service in your relationships to improving the people around you. Those would be my three truths and I hope you enjoy them. Okay, so here are some questions that were submitted over on Twitter. This is from Nardia Carta. What is your vision for the next five to ten years as you continue to pursue your wonderful purpose? Again, we talk about this in the Greatness Mindset. I've talked about this on this episode so far that the meaningful mission for me is to serve 100 Million Lives Weekly. That's what I'm up to in my life. That's what gets me out of bed. That's what gets me excited. That gets me motivated when things are tough. That's what allows me to put in long hours, all these different things. But at the same time, the thing that I'm focused on is my health, my relationships, not just like work and the mission alone, but it's how can I have great relationships? How can I continue to have a great practice with my health? and have the energy to live a long good life. I want to have a lot of fun in my life. I believe that every day we should be laughing. I believe we should be playing. Even it's for a few minutes, we should be doing those things as often as possible. So I want to keep my childlike joy, my childlike expression and have fun. You know, life doesn't have to be so serious and overwhelming and daunting, even when there's a lot of darkness. So that's something I think about. this is from LinkedIn with Newton Chang who said, what's the most important life lesson you would share with the Lewis Howes of 2013? And the game, I just keep coming back to peace. The highest currency in life, I think, is peace and inner peace in your life. It doesn't matter what's happening externally around you. You don't have control on the, the world's environment. You can control kind of your space and your physical environment. most of the time. But learning how to master peace internally is the key. I just think that allows us to be less reactive, less stressful, less overwhelmed, less triggered in life when we can have that currency of peace. This is from Elaine Lloyd on LinkedIn who said, my main question is, what is your mission and how do you stay grounded, focused and committed to your mission? Here's the next 10 awesome years. Again, I want to repeat this. It's to serve 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life. That is my meaningful mission. How do I stay grounded in my mission? This comes to having really good people around you who keep you humble, who keep you grounded in terms of not trying to hold you down, but remind you to stay humble as you rise in power and success and accomplishments. And so I really have quality people around me. You know, I have really good friends who grew up in the Midwest like myself. I have close ties with my family. My girlfriend is amazing at supporting me in so many ways and coaching and inspiring me, but also just reminding me that I'm a human being and, you know, I'm just a man. This is a journey. We're all in this experience together. I'll be here for a period of time and then it'll be over and I won't be here, reminding myself of the fragility of life. Darren Mills on Instagram said, I'm working on launching my own podcast now and I'm having trouble keeping consistent with creating content. How do you stay consistent in the early days of SOG? I'm not sure if you're clear on why you're doing what you're doing. If you're clear on it, then you'll just say, okay, I'm going to do whatever it takes because I'm clear and it's something bigger than just you making money. It's bigger than you trying to have a big show. It's bigger than all that. There's an end in mind. There's a mission in mind. There's a reason in mind beyond just personal success and accomplishments and all these different things. I think it's hard to stay consistent. It's hard to be creative when it's just about me, me, me. When I focus on others, when I focus on service as our mission, it allows me to have energy and stay consistent. Another thing would be making sure you find the right people around you to support you in staying consistent. You know, we've got great producers and editors and people on our team that have structure that allow us to create content ahead of time, plan ahead of time, as opposed to just let me wing this last minute and just figure out what we're gonna do. It's really planning and organizing ahead of time, and having that structure. This is from Isidro on LinkedIn who said, I want to know when the next book will drop. Will there be a decade of wisdom and self optimization? The greatest mindset is dropping. Make sure you get your copy right now. How to Unlock the Power of youf Mind. This is our best work. This is something that we as a team worked on together. From 10 years of interviews and content, we said, how do we create the perfect structure the perfect system if you're struggling stuck and overwhelmed on how to get unstuck and get into peace and create the thing you want to create in your life. It is here in the book, so make sure to pick it up right now over on Amazon or you can go to lewishouse.com/tgm for the greatness mindset and get a copyright there. Amy Anderson on Twitter said, How did you find and establish your niche? so that you could stand out above the rest in the motivation and self-help space. When I started 10 years ago, podcasting wasn't a thing. I was kind of entering a new frontier, if you will, in this industry because there were very few podcasts at the time. I had a decision to make. Do I go smaller and niche down and build an audience around a niche or do I go broader? And I wanted to go broad, which a lot of people told me not to do because it takes longer to get an audience. It takes longer to create results typically if you go broader from the start. But at the time, I was just so clear that this is what I wanted to create for the future. I wanted to be able to talk about relationships, health and wellness, sports mindset, champions mindset, money. I wanted to talk about all these areas of life. as opposed to just one niche. And I feel like it took me longer to build, but more sustainable and really allowed me to do the things that I was curious about. Sometimes people create a niche and after two to five years they get burnt out in that niche and they want to recreate something. You've got to relaunch something. So I created the thing that I wanted to have for a long time and built a meaningful mission that would support the long road. This is from Carrie Lee McClelland. on LinkedIn who said, what has been the most profound yet simplest thing you have learned? And from who? I mean, there's so many lessons, but the simplest thing is gratitude. I think a lot of people want to manifest, they want to have abundance, they want to be prosperous, they want to feel good. Gratitude is the simplest key. Whenever I feel frustrated or stressed or overwhelmed, I lean into that. and if I don't lean into it, I feel more stressed and overwhelmed. So, it's just a key. It's something that unlocks as part of it. Rhonda Byrne who wrote the book the Secret talked a lot about this in the interview that we had and she talks a lot about that. So, if you haven't watched that interview or listened to that interview, we'll have it linked up in the description where you can hear and watch that with Rhonda Byrne from the Secret. This is from Mikala on Twitter who said, what's the biggest mistake failure you wish you could have avoided in business and personal life? Oh my gosh. There are so many that I... So many mistakes I've made in my entire life. And business, here's the thing. I don't know if I would take back any of these things because I wouldn't have the wisdom that I have now without those mistakes and the lessons and the learning. and the humility and the frustration and everything that comes with the mistakes. But if I'm having to answer the question, I think I would have... I don't think I launched too many programs early on in the first five years that just didn't work out. But again, I learned... They were like little mini PhDs because I learned how to become a better at a course creator or being better on video. I did a talk show for Facebook that only had one season and didn't continue. And that it didn't work out. And it was a year and a half of my life, but I learned so much from it. So there's certain things that I don't know if I would take them back because they were also great learning things and lessons for me to improve. And on the personal side, man, there's too many personal things for me to mention of mistakes I've made. But I would say not abandoning myself. I abandoned myself too many times to please others and make others feel happy and that would make me change who I was to make them like me so I would never abandon myself. Sammy Adari on Twitter said, what are the top three breakthrough moments that massively changed your journey towards greatness? Which I'm sure you had an emotional time building these, the bumps and bruises along the way. So the top three emotional moments One with a workshop that I did 10 years ago that was about leadership and emotional intelligence that helped me see myself differently. Another one was when I went to Poland with a group of guys that I took to do a five-day journey with Wim Hof, doing breathing, breath work, ice baths, jumping in frozen rivers, climbing mountains half naked in the snow, and facing fears. The third one was probably a recent one where I did a Dr. Joe Dispenza's 7-Day Meditation and I also went to India for two weeks to do a meditation as well. Those kind of deeper dives where I disconnected from my phone, computer, work and I took a look at myself. And I took a look at what was working and what wasn't working and I said, How can I see if there's any room for growth? How can I continue to grow? those deeper dives really supported me in kind of unlocking the journey and keep me again grounded and reflective on how I can keep growing. Alejandra on LinkedIn said, congratulations on the wonderful 10 years. I recently saw you on a billboard in Times Square. Was this a goal of yours when you started the podcast 10 years ago and how did you celebrate? I don't know if it was like a specific goal, like one day I'm going to be in Times Square, like up on a billboard, but I'm sure I thought about it. I remember in 2009, before I launched the podcast in 2013, I did a magazine shoot with Gary Vaynerchuk, Seth Godin, and a few other people in Times Square. And I remember this being kind of like one of the biggest moments of my career at the time in 2009. And I remember looking around and seeing all the advertisements with all the people on the billboards and I was like, it would be kind of cool. You know, that was like a seed planted. that I was like, this would be kind of cool if this happened. But it wasn't like, I have to do this. This is my dream and goal. But it was definitely a seed planted. How did I celebrate? I ran the New York Marathon the day that it was up in Times Square. So I put myself through pain, adversity, challenge, and then I had a pizza that night afterwards because I probably burned like 7, 000 calories. So that's how I celebrated by running a marathon and facing a challenge and a fear of mine and having a pizza. Joakin Chase on Instagram said, In what ways do you think creating a mission for Greatest Media has helped the company and how has the mission evolved over 10 years? I think it's what has allowed me to attract people on the team, what has allowed me to attract community and audience because it's focused on a clear mission and that allows for people to get behind that mission who are interested and excited about it. Without a clear mission, people come and go and they don't know why. People know why they're here and if they're not aligned to the mission, then they'll leave and it's clearer on why they're here. So that's really helped me. Has it evolved over the last 10 years? It hasn't really evolved. It's been the same meaningful mission since the beginning. So I think maybe in ways it's evolved, it might have been more focused on like early on as I was defining and developing it, it might have been more about helping people be successful, but then it became more like, okay, let's help people just improve the quality of their life in all these areas. That's how it's evolved. Patrick Miller on Instagram said, you, recently launched the Daily Motivation Show and I love the show and I listen daily during my workout, my morning workout. In revisiting those clips from the past School of Greatness episodes, are there any moments that have stuck out as powerful. So many moments. I listen to the show almost daily. Sometimes I'll listen to five in a row from the whole week if I'm going to work out or a long run. And I'll listen to them on repeat. I just love it because again, it's not me talking, it's all the great guests we've had on. And I love listening to their messages and these moments. When I'm in some of these interviews, guys, I'm taking notes and I'm like, gosh, this is so powerful. I want to take this note and I want to go listen to it again. But sometimes I don't have that time to go and listen to it or find it. And that was one of the reasons for starting this. I was like, there's so many powerful moments. Let's just make a show out of this. So they've all been great. And there you have it. Thank you so much for joining me on this 10-year journey that for me feels like again, we're just getting started. None of this would have been possible without you guys, without you showing up and consistently supporting the School of Greatness. So I'm so grateful for you. that you show up, that you listen, that you share each and every week. And wherever you're at, thanks again for listening, thanks for showing up, and I'll see you in the next episode. If you got value from that, then go ahead and stick around for more coming up right now.

And I mean, basically that work talks about the power of the mind and the power of thought to create our physical world and material world. And then the greater secret takes that to a whole new level, actually. And so then you really get to see that. Oh, my gosh, it's super easy. Create anything I want. Like, really? So easy. Because if we have a belief, it's hard, then it's going to be hard, you know? And so. And so it has everything to do with our mind and what we believe. And so if we believe a thought, it will manifest. End of story.

Manifest.

So if we believe we are deserving of great love, then we will manifest. If we. we're going to be poor, we're going to stay poor. If we believe we don't deserve something, then it's not going to come to us.

And, you know, it's interesting because, because for all of us, you know, and we've been conditioned, you know, I mean, you were very fortunate because you, you had a childhood where you were, mind was opened and you were opened and your heart was opened. And that's the biggest, biggest thing is to open yourself to the possibility that everything isn't the way it appears to be. And so even if you can just open yourself to that possibility, just for a moment, you can pick up it all the next day. You can take it all with you the next day that it's all real and everything that you're seeing. But if you just for a moment open to the possibility that things might not be the way that you think they are, then you have the greatest opportunity to really discover something incredible, how incredible you are. So, so with the secret, yeah, I describe it really. And so I really simplify it and the Law of Attraction because I would say to anybody, if you would just think about what you want, that's all you'd ever get in your life.

It's as simple as that. But a lot of people think a lot of negative things. They do. Because it's on a loop that just holds them into this negative pattern. So how do we break that negative thought pattern?

Right. So, I mean, the mind is like a computer program. So, and the fact that it's on a negative loop is because we programmed it on a negative loop. But, But we could have been influenced when we were children and things like that. So one of the things that the mind loves is repetition. I mean, loves it. If you really watch your thoughts, this is the same old thoughts over and over again. It's just kind of dishing up the same old thing. So it loves repetition. So the way you can override a program is to put in the opposite. And when you start out, you feel like you're lying. You'll say something like, you might be really broke. Gee, I was when I was making secret. So you might not have any money and you're trying to instill, you know, wealth and prosperity and riches. And every time you say it, you feel a contraction in your body because you know you don't have it. But, you know, truly, because I did it myself, after a while you change it, you really begin to change it and you don't quite have that contraction anymore. And then you start to see money coming in, you know, in, in different ways. And, and, and, and, or you can be given things that you were going to buy, and now you don't have to buy it or. so you begin to see, you start to see signs of land, you know, is one of the great, one of the great new thought thought writers would say, talk about a sign of land. So you start to see sign of land. Now, that's what I did in the secret. You can do gratitude. That will turn everything around. That will make you feel good. That will get you off the negative rant. But those negative thoughts are coming from beliefs held in the subconscious mind.

Right.

That's where do the beliefs stem from for most of us?

They stem mostly from our childhood conditioning. Yeah. Somebody's, our parents said something to us, we just swallowed it. Pork, line and zinker. You know, we're like, right, that's a belief. And, and so we take it in and, and then we have all these beliefs that, that, and you can hear, you know, if you, if you're talking to somebody like, if, if if somebody says, oh, I believe, or because we say that all the time, or somebody says, I think behind those two, behind those two statements are going to be a belief. And so the really interesting thing, they're hard to spot because you believe they're true.

They seem real.

Yeah. So you don't think. Yeah. You don't think they're a belief. You think they're real, you know, and so they can be hard to spot. But if you start to listen to yourself, you know, I believe or I think or especially look at the things that you have really strong opinion about. Because where you have a really strong opinion is a belief that's underneath that. So, so one of the things that in the latest book is that I show how to show how to dissolve those, those beliefs and just really by some of the things that I've just mentioned. and, and you can dissolve them and you just feel free. Every time a belief goes out, you feel completely free. You know, it's an amazing, amazing feeling to, you just feel as light as a feather. And actually you feel invincible. Yeah. Because can you imagine, like if we have the, for example, the, the feeling of doubt, right? Doubt and uncertainty. Now, doubt and uncertainty play a big part in most people's lives, and that can be paralyzing those two things. So just imagine living a life zero doubt, zero uncertainty. I mean, incredible.

How do we get to a place of not doubting ourselves?

You can because you need to know who you are. You need to know who you are so that you don't doubt yourself because the one that is doubting is the ego, the one that is doubting is the mind. It's not who we are. So then you've got to become very aware of your thoughts. That one that is doubting, the one, the negative thoughts, they're all coming from the ego, right? All of them. Because who you are would never have a negative thought ever, ever. Who you are would never judge who you are, doesn't have, who you are is allowing and accepting. And so you, so all of those things are coming from the ego and they are not who you are. And that voice in your head that you hear, that voice that's so familiar to you and seems to know an awful lot about you and sounds like you, that voice is not you. That voice is just a program.

What was the voice that was in your head consistently pre-secret that you had to overcome that belief? And then what's been the program? Because I feel like every new evolution of us is gonna be some type of thing to overcome. So has there been something you've had to overcome in the last 15 years post secret to get to the next level?

Definitely negative thoughts. Definitely.

Before the secret, you had a lot.

Of before this, oh, heaps. I was like everybody. I was like everybody. I was just like, oh, I was pointing out all the things that were wrong. And somehow I was kind of brought up. And I think a lot of us are that you're a good person. If you, if you point out the things that are wrong, you know, you have to speak up and say, that's wrong. you know, that shouldn't be happening. And, and, and so I, I was kind of brought up with that, too. And so that's brought up with judgment. And that does not help us at all. Judgment. We need to put it in the trash because that does, that does not belong with us. And the one who is judging is the ego. That's, it's the ego is judging the one that has negative thoughts is the ego. So, so I had all of that going on. You know, I had doubt, I had uncertainty, I had feelings of unworthiness. headaches, heaps of stress. Oh, my God. Heaps of stress.

I was like, pre the book.

Pre-secret yeah. Living on the edge, you know, I was like this with life, like white knuckles, you know, what's going to happen next, you know, something bad's going to happen and being really afraid, it's, you know, something's going to happen to somebody I love or so, I mean, I live my life like that and I think everybody does and and they just kind of keep it all squashed down, you know, and, but most people live their life that way. And, I mean, you know, in the last year, if you've been terrified, you know, in the last year and really fearful in the last year, you know, all of that fear has been given to you as this lovely gift, you know, when you're maybe a child, and it's like, here's a whole lot of things to be fearful about. And, and then we go through Fear. And I mean, it's very easy to see that there's no pandemic that is fear, a fear-based pandemic. Why do we know that? Because there are many people who are not afraid. And so if the pandemic was, you know, in the world was actually a real fear manifestation, then every single person on the planet would be fearful. And while there are a lot of people fearful, There are still a lot who are not. So that just shows you that the fear was already here with us, you know, before the pandemic came along. Right. Yeah.

What was the, what was the belief that you still had to overcome post secret? Because you overcame a lot to be able to create something like that. There was this incredible movement. But then were there other negative beliefs that still held you back?

Oh, yeah. The biggest one, the biggest one was that I was abundant. that was the biggest one.

That was your limiting belief or.

Yeah, that was the one I. I had been brought up with. We can't afford it. We don't have enough, you know, and money would come into my hands. It would slip through my fingers. You know, things would break down. The universe would do all these things to get the money out of my hands. It was just like, take it away.

Yeah.

Because I had this belief that I did not have an abundant amount of money and that I was always in struggle, and that came from my parents. Bless them, you. they are beautiful. But that came from them, you know, we can't afford it and all of those things. So I was brought up with that, as many of us are. So the one that I had the biggest thing to overcome, the belief, the biggest thing to overcome was the belief in lack of money. And I knew I needed to overcome that for the secret to sweep the world.

To be able to attract and bring you.

Yeah, because if I didn't overcome that, how could Could it possibly... Why would.

Money come to you then? Exactly.

So I had to overcome it.

How did you overcome that? I mean, how do you overcome the fear of lack, the not having enough? I'm not worthy of money. How do we finally transition into abundance?

I did that by many, many things. I tried many things. All kinds of... I was experimenting with it. So, I mean, I would just walk down the street and say, There's prosperity, everyone breathing in prosperity, I do all these affirmations, you know, I'm breathing in prosperity with every breath I take. I am my substance is prosperity. I am abundant. I am worthy, you know. And so I would say all these affirmations, I would have them all pinned up around the apartment that I was staying in. And so that I would see them and read them every day. So that was just one thing I did. Then what I would do, the biggest thing was because at the time I was in incredible debt. I was making the secret and I just didn't have the money to make it. And I started out $2 million in debt, mind you, because of a whole lot of shows that went really wrong.

And so- Because you were producing TV shows at the time.

Yeah, I was. And so, I mean, $2 million in debt makes it sound like I had a lot of money. I never had anything like that money. But these particular movies that we're making, they ran over budget. And so I started with $2 million in debt. I remember I discovered the secret and I went to my accountant and I said, you have to do whatever it takes to keep my company afloat. I'm going to make something that's going to change the world. I'm going to make it. You keep my company going. And so, and he just said, okay. And so I took out, oh my gosh, I maxed every credit card I had to the limit. I mortgage my home to the absolute limit. I took overdrafts out of my company so I could make the documentary.

Wow.

And so I had crushing debt coming in on me and I needed more money to keep making it. So it was a journey of absolute luck, you know, and the luck was just an expression of what I'd been brought up with. So I had to turn that around. So one of the things I did, like the, when I would go and get used to get, then you would get your bills or accounts in the mail, you know, it wasn't all online. and so I go to the Maple and pick this with me, you know, and straight away, my stomach, my stomach would like. And if anybody's been in that situation where you just don't have enough money and you've got all these bills, it's a horrible feeling, you know, and my. My whole body would contract, and I would know that is attracting a lack of money, and that's not attracting abundance. So I used to do this thing whereby. I would do gratitude and I would listen to music and I would do all of as many things as I could until I felt really, really good. And I would just say to myself, I am abundant and nothing would object, no thought would object. And I'm like, right, now's the time to open the mail, right? I'm feeling really, really good. And so then I would open the bills and I would look at each one as though it was a check. I would imagine it's a check.

Wow.

Not a bill.

So you played a game in your mind and you're like, okay, it's a hundred thousand dollars.

And I would go, wow, look at all the checks I got today. And so I would do that, you know, and then I'd open them up and I'd be like, wow, 160 check. And, you know, a 2, 300 check. And then I felt like it wasn't. I was, I would add them all up and that's how much I received today. And then I would think, you know what? I need to be receiving more. money than that. So I would add zeros to the, to the bills and I would pretend that they were, instead of 160 dollars, a 16, 000 check that was coming to me. And so it added all up and I've received all this money. So that was one of the other games that I played. And then I did something quite radical. I, it was an experiment and test and all of these things I did. so that I could tell what worked and what would work for people. And so I thought, what's the way that I can feel really good about money? Because when you don't have enough, it's really hard to feel good about money.

Really hard.

Really hard. And so I thought, what's the one way that I can feel good about money? Okay, the way that I can feel good about money is if I give some away. And so what I do.

Well, what about if you have no money to give away?

I took it out on my credit card. Wow. I took out these $20 bills on my credit card. I think I could access $100 or something. So I took out all of these $20 bills and I thought, Right, I'm going to walk down the street and I said to the universe, Show me who to give it to. And so I would walk down the street and I was looking at everybody's faces. And I don't know if you've ever done that in your life is just, so silently walk down a street and look at people's faces, like, with a heart wide open. And I was just melting, looking at all these people's faces.

And.

And. And then it was just amazing because the universe would just show me who to give it to. Like, these kids walked out of a store, and they're, like, counting their money. I don't have enough to get that, you know, they're wanting to get something in the store, and so just. just, you know, gave them twenty dollars and they're like, thanks, lady, and ran back in the store to get, you know, the ice creams or whatever they wanted. And it was an ice cream store, I think they were out the front of. And so, yeah, I just went down the street giving away this money. And in fact, there were two, I think there was two or one twenty dollar note that it just like stopped. It wasn't clear anymore who to give it to. And so I just stopped. Do you know that that was on a Friday and on the Monday, I received $25,000 in my account from a place that I never, ever, ever could have expected. Wow. Yeah.

It's so powerful.

Right?

It's crazy. Was there any of the other tests or games that you tried to, you know, change your thoughts and play with your mind to start seeing yourself as abundant and in private.

Yeah, I did. I did lists of all of the things that I was going to, all the things I was going to buy, you know, when the money came in. So I did all of these lists, and I imagined that I had those things already and. Yeah. And I wanted, I remember it was like, I want a house on the ocean. I really went all out. You know, that was just some list. One of the things I remember is that I'd always wanted a Range Rover all of my life, and that was just beyond. anything I could afford. And especially in Australia, like they were crazy prices. So, but still I put it on the list and I put all these things on the list. But, you know, interestingly enough, like I did that because that was a way to turn money around. But when the secret got released, I didn't care about any of it because, and I didn't even care. All that mattered was that I had got it out into the world and now it was in the world. It could never be taken away. and that is what mattered to me more than anything, is that that was going to get into people's hands. And so. But still, I have to tell you, got all the things on the list. You know, there's amazing views out here of the ocean. I ended up by getting a Range Rover. And so, yeah, but I did. I did a lot of practices, and I have shared those practices in a lot of the books, and also we created an art. which was the secret to money. And so there are a lot of the practices in that I put in that app. And I was just dedicated.

Wow.

Because I knew this was a big thing for people and, and that if I can do it, anyone can do it. Yeah. And you just, all you have to do is you keep doing it until you do not feel any more lack anymore, until there are no more thoughts coming up saying, oh, no, you broke, you know, or. thoughts where you're even looking at the money going out with like a contraction, you know, something else I did. I imagined that with those bills that I would open, I imagined that I was giving those people money and helping their families and helping. So I would imagine that as well. That was something else I did that. That I am. That when I paid a bill, I would really sit down and I would think about all of the people that worked in that company and all of their families, I would feel the feelings of all of that. Then I would think about all of the industries that service that company that I was paying the money to and that all of the money that I'm paying affects all of those people and helps their family and helps them get food. And so that was sort of another way that I felt really good about money.

First of all, I think the one thing I've learned in my research above all else is that in the absence of love and belonging, there's always suffering. So when I hear about your experiences growing up, that's suffering. You know, that's real suffering. And for me, not making the drill team when I was, I think it was in eighth grade, by itself is not a lot, but how my family responded to it, it was like, when things changed for me, and I didn't feel like I belonged to my family anymore. So I think that I still am trying to figure it out. I don't know that I've interviewed anyone, even spiritual leaders, who have the belonging thing completely nailed, because I don't think it is what we think it is. I don't think that it's having a big posse of friends, or having a crew, or rolling with a bunch of people, I think I'm still trying to figure it out because I still feel lonely and alone and on the outside of things on a really regular basis.

Really? I mean, you're going on a book tour with thousands of people, a 15-city tour, millions of fans around the world, and you still feel alone.

Yeah, I can feel really lonely.

Why?

And it's really hard because, you know, you talk about that book tour, I'm a severely introverted, super super private. And so I love that connection between me and an audience, but it can also be hard on me. And also, I'm talking about things that no one, it's weird to me that people sign up to talk about them, but they're hard topics sometimes. And we laugh and we have fun and we'll sing, but I think what I've learned in doing the research on belonging is that belonging is being a part of something bigger than yourself, but it's also the courage to stand alone and to belong to yourself above all else. And so I think I spend a lot of time belonging to myself, and sometimes that makes other people uncomfortable. And so I think that's hard. I think I do feel, I'm always looking for, I don't know about you, but I'm always looking for the roadmap. Like, I want to find the researcher, storyteller, Christian, lover of all people, fighter of the resistance. I want to find the blueprint of who's ahead of me believing what I believe in and doing it really well. But there's not really a blueprint sometimes.

We're all trying to figure it out. We're all trying to figure it out.

I don't get to copy anybody. And so it's hard. It's still hard. But here's a thing that has changed everything for me. I belong to me. So even when I feel alone and I wonder like who's my crew and who are my people, I belong to me for sure. For the first time in my life maybe.

Yeah, and I think we lose ourselves sometimes by trying to belong in groups that we don't don't fit in.

Yeah.

You know, I remember being in, you know, the youngest on these sports teams growing up. I was playing on the junior varsity as a freshman or the varsity or whatever. So, I was the youngest and I remember just wanting to fit in just like you did on that team. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to feel like they liked me, like I mattered, like I was a cool kid or whatever. And when they would do things that I didn't really agree with or they would bully other kids or make fun of people, it's like, I I didn't want to not say anything. I didn't want to stand against them because I wanted to belong. So if I did stand up against them, then that means I was alone. And that was my biggest fear, was being alone.

Oh yeah, because that's what teams and groups deliver. They deliver this thing that you're not alone. The problem is there's just, I was so shocked to learn in the research that the opposite of belonging is fitting in. Because fitting in is Assessing a group of people and thinking, who do I need to be? What do I need to say? What do I need to wear? How do I need to act? And changing who you are. And true belonging never asks us to change who we are. It demands that we be who we are. Because if we fit in, because how we've changed ourselves, that's not belonging. That's not belonging because you betrayed yourself. for other people. And that's not sustainable.

Yeah, you start to lose yourself.

You start to lose yourself exactly what you said. And so I think it's hard. You have to show up as who you are.

How do we find out who we are?

That's the life's work, right? That's frickin' hard.

Do you know who you are?

Yeah, I do.

Who are you?

In what way?

If someone just said, who are you, Brene Brown? What would you say?

Brene Brown. Mom, partner, researcher, storyteller, Texan. I don't know. I'd ask them how much time they have. Because, you know, the thing is that we want to, when we ask people who they are and we want to know we'd like those really easy easy files to put them in.

Of course.

But I'm a complicated person.

Are you? Yeah.

And so I think I know who I am.

What makes you complicated?

I don't know if I'm complicated, but I'm complex.

You're interesting.

I hope so.

Very interesting.

I think what makes me complex is I think what makes everyone complex is the paradoxical nature of people. So, you know, like, I speak in public, I love doing that, but I'm incredibly introverted. Yeah. I'm kind of a traditionalist around things. My kids say yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, but I also raise them to challenge authority every time they get the opportunity to do that. But to be really polite when they're doing it. Sure, sure. Yeah, so I think I'm unapologetically earnest. like, I believe in the goodness of people, but I believe it's hard work to stay out of fear and stay good.

Yeah.

And so I think I understand people. I think I have a lot of empathy, but I'm also not afraid of discomfort.

Yeah.

So I think there's just a lot of push and pull.

Sure.

And I think that's true of all of us. I do not like to be defined.

I think that's, I, I was gonna say, I My entire life, I didn't want to be defined as well. They were like, you,'re gonna be this jock in college, you're gonna be like this alcoholic, you're gonna be in the frats. All my siblings said this to me and I was like, no, I'm not. I made a bet with each one of my siblings, $100 each, that I wouldn't have one sip of alcohol in college. 'Cause I was like, I'm gonna go against everything you think I'm gonna be. I joined the school musical 'cause they were like, you,'re just gonna do sports. I sang, I played guitar, I salsa danced. I was like, I want to do everything different than what people would expect of a tall white man, right? That's awesome. I was like, I want to be different. Yeah. And I think in that process, I was like trying to discover who I really was, what I liked, my dreams, what, you know, what was fun for me. Yeah. As opposed to just trying to fit the box and the mold of everyone else. Because you can lose yourself in that.

Fitting in, I think. You can lose yourself in the fitting.

In, and you can lose yourself in.

The rebuttal to the fitting in. It's true. Trying to go against it all true. Yeah, it's really hard. I mean, it's this thing that it's a quote that is Braving the Wilderness is all about this, starts with this quote from Maya Angelou that we're never free until we belong nowhere, which we belong everywhere, which is nowhere, which is no place at all, which I thought was a terrible quote for many years. And I was like, why are you saying that, Dr. Angelou? You're pissing me off. But then I realized, really the, and she says the, the cost is high, but the reward is great. And I think, I think that's the thing that I feel like I belong everywhere I go. No, no matter where it is or who I'm with, as long as I never betray myself. And the minute I become who you want me to be in order to fit in and make sure people like me is the moment I no longer belong anywhere. And that is hard. I mean, that's a hard practice. That's an everyday practice. Wow. Yeah, 'cause I can be whoever you want me to be like that.

You're like a chameleon, you said.

Oh, I can be totally like a chameleon. Like sometimes it's really funny 'cause I always, 'cause I travel so much, I have all these miles. I always sit in business class, and I'm normally the only woman in business class. Every now and then there's one other maybe, which is a conversation we should be having too.

Sure.

But it doesn't matter what dude sits next to me. Like, I can talk about whatever that person like, and it's so funny because we'll talk about sports usually first, or football, or we'll talk about politics, and he'll say, what do you do? I'll say, I study vulnerability and shame. Shame. Oh, well, huh? Well, I'm gonna play some angry birds, you know, and right that moment, like, I can just, it's not that I know everything about everything, it's just-- so.

You'Re saying most men don't wanna chime in and learn more about that?

Yeah, that's usually, if I wanna go to sleep, I'm like, I'm a shame researcher. What do you do? You'd be like, okay. But I think I can be anything.

Yeah, you're definitely Adaptable.

I'm adaptable and adaptable is great because anyone that comes to my home or here to work, I can make you feel comfortable.

Of course.

But then if I get so adaptable that my goal, my intention of adapting is to make sure you like me, then that's when I betray myself.

What would you say is the time in your life you've been the most alone? Just the whole journey.

Yeah, it just sucked.

It does suck.

And you know, my daughter just graduated from high school and she had this amazing experience. You know, just incredible experience. And it was so healing to watch.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, and I think it happened because she, I think I think she has the confidence to put herself out there and student council president and that kind of, I think because we have a rule at our house that no matter what, you belong here. No matter how goofy, awkward, afraid, wrong, it doesn't matter, you belong here. And so I think when we give our kids a platform like that at home, it gives them the courage to take risks outside home. Does that make sense?

Because they feel safe coming back, no matter what happens, they always have a place to come home to.

Yeah, and I grew up in a house where it was very chaotic. I'm the oldest of four, and fitting in and being cool was the most important thing. So I think without that pressure, I probably would have never tried out for that drill team. But in my world growing up, you only did two things. You were a cheerleader or you were on the drill team. and preferably you married a running back or a quarterback. I mean, that was the way it went. And so for me, I probably would have been like president of the French club, you know, or I would have been in debate, are those kind of things.

Newspaper.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, photographer of the yearbook. Yeah. But those things did not have a lot of value.

Really?

No, no.

Your parents didn't instill that as something credible or worthwhile?

No, it's just, I, Cool was the number one, value at home. Cool, lots of friends, popular. Yeah. And that just wasn't my, I wasn't that thing. You know, I was, yeah, I wasn't. And so what I did is I just started drinking, smoking weed, hanging out with, you know, I found, I found a place to be, you know, cool. And, you know, that just goes bad fast.

Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had a conversation with your parents about this?

Oh, yeah, we've talked about all of it.

You have?

Yeah.

You've let it go, you've processed it all.

Oh yeah, because they read my books as I write them and they're like, shit, this is exactly what every parent wants, a child who grows up to be a shame researcher. But no, that's the miracle of my parents. My parents, they've taught me the best thing about parenting that anyone I think could ever know, which is it doesn't end when your kids leave. They keep growing and exploring and.

However.

Hard it was for me not being able to be vulnerable, we did not do vulnerability growing up.

Really?

No, no, no, no. Our family motto was literally lock and load. Get ready, family trips, you're in the car for five hours, that's all six of us. You really have to go to the bathroom, but the rest stop is on the other side of the highway, we're not pulling over. Suck it up, hold it. We were tough. We were tough. Like we'd fall down and get hurt. You know, my dad would say, I got bigger scratches than that on my eyeball. You know, like, yeah, we were tough. And so, and we were taught to outrun vulnerability. We were taught to suck it up, soldier on, get her done. And so, however hard that was for me growing up, imagine what what it was like for my parents in the 50s. You know, my dad, who was the youngest of six, his dad died when he was 16. You know?

Was he able to process that or no?

No, he just did the next thing you do. Played football, played college ball. My mom, who's my grandmother, who I named my daughter after, was an alcoholic. And she was drunk every other day of my mom's life. she was the most amazing person in the world, but everyone knew she was an alcoholic, so my mom wasn't allowed to have friends at her house growing up because it was the 50s and she was divorced. And so my mom became the head of the drill team and the valedictorian. And so however hard it was for me growing up, having to try to outrun vulnerability, it was a million times harder on my parents. And they did. what they knew how to do. And they loved us as much as they could love us with the tools they had. And so I don't have, I think the hard part comes for people that I've interviewed my whole life where the parents don't grow and change. And they see anything a child trying to do differently as criticism of what they did, as opposed to my parents who lean in and say, tell me more about that. Tell me, I mean, funny we hear a funny story about my dad. Yeah, it's great. So we do a lot of choice theory with my daughter and my son. And so choice, my husband's a pediatrician. So like we know a lot about child development from our just from school. And so when Ellen was little, we used to do this thing where we would say, you know, you have two choices. Like, Louis, you have two choices. You can either hand me the water, I'm gonna have to take it from you. What is your choice? So that if you decide not to hand it to me and I have to take it, It's not my fault.

That was your choice.

That's your choice, right? And so one night I was talking to Ellen, we were at my dad's house in Santanee, and I was like, Ellie, you need to turn off Dora the Explorer.

It's time to go to bed.

And she's like, mm-mm. And I said, Ellen, you have two choices. You can get up and turn off the TV, or I'm gonna get up and turn it off for you.

And if I have to get up.

And turn off the TV, you're gonna lose privileges to watch it tomorrow. And that's your choice. Yeah, that's your choice. You know, and I would hate that for you, but that will be your choice. And my dad was sitting in the recliner next to me, and he's like, ah, damn, sis, what are you raising? A hostage negotiator? And I was like, Dad? And he's like, Seriously, Brene? We had four of y'all. We didn't have time for that. So the next day I come home. I'm visiting friends in San Antonio and he's watching Ellen. And he's in the driveway. It's like 110 degrees in San Antonio, and he's sweating. He's like, Ellen, you have two choices. You can either put the bicycle up, or I'm gonna have to put it up for you. And the second one's a dumbass choice. So I was like, wow, you're so close.

You're getting there.

You're getting there.

But you're getting there.

My parents are amazing in that way that like, they're learning and changing. So I think it's harder when parents say, I'm done. What you got was what you got. No apologies, no change.

They were men.

Take it or leave it. and if you do it differently with your own kids, you're a sucker.

Wow.

And I think we see that a lot.

Yeah, we do. I mean, what should parents be learning about how they can grow? I mean, how can they start to be aware? Because I think it starts with being aware of what they know and what they don't know, and being receptive to learning something different, which is really hard to do. I think once you've had these habits for so long, so that's the first thing. and I want to dive into the lack of vulnerability with what's happening in Charlottesville right now as well. I know you did something on that this morning. So I guess how can parents listen to this and be aware and be willing to move forward in a different way of learning something new when they're so stuck in their ways, potentially, that it's worked for them to this point to get to where they're at.

You know, I think I believe this with my whole heart. I believe that 99.9% of parents are truly waking up every day and doing the very best they can with what they have. I don't think there are a lot of parents who wake up and maliciously try to screw up their kids or hurt their kids or belittle or shame their kids. I think we're doing the best best we can with what we have. And so I think to let go of the idea that if I have done something that I could have done better or that I could learn from, that I have to just come down. People defend their parenting like they're defending their lives because it's such a shame minefield.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, a great example is the work you're doing around men and vulnerability. I cannot tell you the number of fathers and the hundreds, if not thousands of fathers I've that said, I shamed my son every time he was vulnerable.

Yeah.

I put him down, I made fun of them, I hit him every time he was vulnerable. And now I look back and I know it's because that's the way I was raised or I was afraid he'd be soft and get hurt at school or, you know, whatever the thing is. And so I think for parents, it's about understanding, giving yourself permission to not have been, I'm not perfect. Like, you know, like I've never not been a researcher and a parent. My husband's a pediatrician. Our kids will be in therapy. You're right. And the reason why I think that'll be so successful is there's only two kind of kids you raise, kids who will ask for help when they need it, or kids who won't. And that's as good as it gets.

Is to raise a kid who'll ask for help. Yeah, I never asked for help. Yeah. I was always suffering inside. Yeah, right. And I always felt shameful, guilty, and I just My way of asking was being angry, resentful, mad, hitting people in sports or outside of sports because that's all I knew. It's only by helping others and buying into a vision that's larger than yourself that you'll tap into the greater version of you. And once you get crystal clear on your life's mission, again, for this season of your life at least, I guarantee it'll be a whole lot easier to stay motivated. It's just going to become natural for you and a whole lot harder to be lazy.