How to Become A BADASS At Making Money | Jen Sincero
Jen Sincero talks about shifting your identity and beliefs around money. She covers why people sabotage their own wealth, how to stop seeing money as immoral, and what actually changes when you decide you deserve to earn more.
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The number one question I get at my talks is, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it, because you're killing off the person they love. I mean, think about that. Like, you're changing who you are, and they're comfortable with who you are, and they feel that's their reality too, is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.
I think you gotta have a dream.
The School of Greatness.
Really?
Yeah.
Please welcome Lewis Howes. And I wanted to start with asking you a question about money and talking about money for a moment because I feel like a lot of people are in fear around money right now. They're scared, they're uncertain of what's going to happen with all these things in the world around money and inflation and crisis and all these different things. I'm curious with all of your research and all of your feedback from your audience, with your book about money. What do you feel like is the number one thing that holds people back emotionally and mentally around believing that they are deserving of making the money they want?
About the deserving piece. Oh, wow. Well, first of all, I think that a lot of people think it's not okay. Like there's a real morality around making money.
Really?
Because think about it, we really focus on greed. And when you desire money, it's not the same as being greedy, but I think that we combine those two things. And so of course, if you decide that you wanna make money, you don't tell people. I remember when I was on my path, like, get rich. People were grossed out, you know? It's not, I mean, I always compare it to like, if I was like, I'm gonna lose a hundred pounds, people were like, go, you. But you're like, I'm gonna get rich. They're like, you,'re disgusting.
Wow.
You know, so there is a real judgment around that.
Why is that? If someone's ambitious around making money and creating financial abundance for themselves, why is that?
I think because there is an implied morality piece where you're gonna do things that are really bad for everybody involved. Like you're gonna, money's the main goal, so you'll do anything to get rich. I think there is this really weird perception of that. And I do think that, you know, the news definitely focuses on all the evil that people do to make money. And so, I mean, you know, that you rarely hear about people giving lots of money your way or doing wonderful things with money. It really is about how evil the rich are.
Yeah, it's more rare to hear that people are giving, but you don't hear about it though.
Yeah, not so much.
And it's also, here's the interesting thing, because we've also been taught to diminish our giving, like to not talk about our giving, to make it anonymous, don't brag that you're giving. where I actually have started to prescribe to maybe talk 50% of the time about what you're giving and the other 50% of the time it doesn't have to be, you know, you telling the world about it. But I think when you say, here's what I'm giving, it inspires other people to be generous and giving as well. Absolutely. And it doesn't have to be only money, but it can be your time, your energy, your resources another way. But I think sharing about it sometimes.
Empowers other people to be more generous as well. I agree. And it also takes away the stigma that you're an egomaniacal fathead and that you want all the praise for being such a good guy. And why not? We talk about other good things we do. It's just money. I've written about sex. I've studied religion. Money is by far the most loaded.
The most loaded.
Absolutely. It's the dirtiest topic. I don't know why. And I really don't. It's interesting though, like, did your parents talk to you about money?
I grew up, A little bit. A little bit, but there was stress around money, which caused it to feel more unsettling. So there was some conversation, but most of the conversation was stressful or their relationship wasn't peaceful. So I was like, okay, well, if they're not peaceful, but they're working really hard and money is tied to working hard, then something must be off.
Exactly.
And it wasn't a money issue, it was just an emotional healing issue.
Right.
And that just happened to be mixed in with money.
Yes, and so in your little brain, you put it attached to money makes stress. Yeah.
Exactly. What was your perception of money before you started to make it versus when you started to make it?
Well, I grew up in a super waspy household, so we don't discuss money. It's dirty and uncooth. Never learned anything about it at all.
No education around it.
Hell no, oh my God, no, like nothing. And so, when I-- so I was very of the mind that it wasn't cool to want to make money, you know, the unholy dollar. Like, I was a rock and roller, so I was more about the art.
And-- you-'re not gonna sell yourself out.
Exactly. Selling out, like, what a concept. Selling out basically means you're getting paid for doing what you love. Like, why is that so bad, right? And then the whole starving artist crap and all that stuff. Yeah, and that rich people sucked and I was too cool to focus on money. I also believed I sucked at making it, which was the truth. I also had a weird feeling that like, I was, it was almost like a different species. It's almost like me, there's me and then there's grown-ups, right? And I felt that way about money too. Like there's me and there's people who actually make like real money and have big houses and fancy cars and like do stuff like, but I was, I was like the child version of that, you know, always sitting at the kid table financially. And so it was a total identity shift that I had to go through where it was like that I could open myself up to like being somebody who could receive that kind of wealth. It was a real big shift for me.
Do you think we have to go through an identity shift in order to see money differently and to be able to receive it differently?
I think you do. Absolutely. That's a really great way to go at it.
Yeah. So what was your, you know, the key words around your identity with money? when you didn't have much versus the keywords that you would speak about within yourself or what money is once you started to unlock more money.
Well, it wasn't necessarily around identity, my words, 'cause I did have two very serious mantras, but there was a lot of visualizing myself with money. And like, I wrote about buying the Audi and youd Are a Bitch, and like, I'm not the kind of person who drives an Audi. Are you kidding me? Like, and like, almost feeling like this is the guy who is like test driving it with me and be like, Get outta here, I know who you are.
You can't afford this.
Yes, exactly. So, but my mantra is really like, and before I started making money, I said, I can't afford it to pretty much anything you could throw at me. My first words out of my mouth were, I can't afford it.
And I- what are we doing when we're saying that? Whether it's true or not true.
We are buying into an identity as somebody who can't afford stuff. We are also proving it. You know, what you speak, you want to prove because you want to be right and it is sort of the foundation of your reality. So when I say I can't afford it 100 times a day, I'm subconsciously pulling in proof, like, look at the car I'm driving. I'm living in an alley. Like, I make this much money a year. I'm building all the foundational blocks to prove that I can't afford it. And that becomes my reality. And then that becomes my, I like to call it familiarity zone, because comfort zones are not comfortable. Interesting. Right? So then I'm just proving it over and over and over, and that becomes my reality. And then To shift out of that literally means to obliterate your reality and your identity, right? So that's what- It's like an explosion.
It is. It's like you have to have a death, an explosion, a bomb almost to go off.
It does, and it's killing off your old identity. And this is why I'm gonna totally go off on a segue here, but this is why the number one question I get at my talks is what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it, 'cause you're killing off the person they love.
Oh, man.
I mean, think about that. Like you're changing who you are and they're comfortable with who you are and they feel that's their reality too, is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.
Wow.
So it's really a thing.
It's so interesting. I was telling someone on my team this a few weeks ago that in the different seasons of my life from 18 until now, I have had all these amazing experiences from school to sports teams to moving to new cities to finding new groups and communities. And a lot of them I've outgrown in certain ways or just transitioned out of. Maybe not outgrown, but just I've gone to do other things. and continue to try to evolve. I'm not saying I'm better than, but I've continued to try to evolve and let go of the old me. And some of them don't like it and I lose friends in the process of changing myself, reinventing myself, letting go of old behaviors and stepping into a different identity. And it's not easy to have communities that you love and people you are familiar with and hanging out with that support you. go to parties and do whatever activities, and then all of a sudden they stop returning your calls.
Yeah.
And they stop texting you back. And you feel sad, hurt, you know, disappointed.
Yeah.
That you're trying to go somewhere and they don't support that. It's a scary time.
Yeah, it is. It's very lonely. That's why it's lonely at the top.
What suggestions do you give to people then who are shifting their identity, stepping into a new reality for themselves, and their friends don't like it, their family doesn't like it, their communities don't like it, and they're telling them to, hey, come back and hang out with us. What do you say to them?
Well, first of all, really make the decision, are you gonna stay small and shrink just so that you can be around those people and make them comfortable, or is your comfort more important and your growth more important? And also, it doesn't serve them either. Like, if you all stay at the same low level, 'cause not everybody ditches you, There are some people that are just like, oh my God, you inspire the crap out of me. I'm gonna do it too.
It's true.
Right? So focus, it's all where you place your focus, right? And then also focus on who you're gonna meet now that you're getting big. Right. Right? Those exciting, inspiring people who are turned on by the same things you are, who are doing the same things you are. Like it's all about where you put your focus.
And you can only, I mean, I really only have maybe five to seven close friends that I can actually spend meaningful time with outside of my girlfriend, which I spend a lot of time with, outside of my team, which I'm spending time with during the day.
Yeah.
It's only so many nights and weekends that I can spend quality time with people.
Yeah.
And you may need to open up space to invite in people that are at a, I don't know, an awareness or a support or a level of thinking that you want to be at as well.
Right.
To create that time and connection with. So it's scary though.
If it's not scary, you're doing something wrong, though, right?
So how old were you when things started to shift psychologically, mentally, and emotionally? And did you create a bomb? Was it more of a slow breakthrough for you in shifting this identity and this old skin?
Yeah, yeah, I was 40. It was in my 40s. Yeah, you know, I really struggled and suffered for way too long. Don't get me wrong, I had a fun life. Like I was going on road trips and I was in a band and I was doing all the things I wanna do, but financially I was just so stuck and stubborn in my thinking, you know? And so that's actually how I finally picked up a self-help book. Like I was, I mean, self-help was as ugly as making money was for me at the time. I was always scared I'd die and they'd find me in my house 'cause I was too cool. And that's when I was just like, I have got to do something. And that's when I started reading them when I was sort of end of my thirties, I was living in my forties, but it was in my forties that I hired my first life coach and went totally into debt for it. Like put it on my credit card, called her and begged her for the money back. And luckily she was a great coach. She's like, that could be the most important money you ever spend. And then I was like front row doing every single thing she said. And luckily she's an excellent coach and I tripled my income in like three months. And then once I saw myself do that, then I was like, okay, this works, this works. And then I was just A straight A student just doing all the things.
It just kept showing up.
Oh, I kept doubling my rates and kept cold calling and doing all the stuff that I was just like, but it was so cool at the same time. Like it was so fun because one of the things about being stuck is that life force that's going through all of us, right? Like it was about the money, but it wasn't about it. It was about the money. Money is great. I don't want to, you know, I love having money. It's just freedom and options, right? Money is just freedom and options, and who does not want that all day long? But also it was about the life force that I knew I could be doing better. There was just so much Jen Cinchero that wanted to go shine, basically, right? And I was blocking it off. I could just feel it. So it was just this clogging and this frustration that once I hired the coach, like, I was in the game and I was playing and I was taking risks and I was doing stuff I'd never done before. And it was so exciting. It was so alive, you know? It's a life force. Money is currency and currency is energy, and that energy is a life force.
Ooh. And when you were feeling stuck financially and around money, was it more of a thinking or a feeling in your body and an emotional connection to it? or was it both?
Both. Definitely both.
So, what was the thought and what was the feeling tied to it?
The thought was, I am never gonna get out of this. I'm 40. I'm living in a garage in an alley. I've never been able to make money. It's just not something I personally can ever do. And then more subconsciously, lots of things subconsciously, but it's not okay to do it. I discovered that I had a really, the biggest block for me was, if I get really rich, I will, my father who wasn't able to show love very comfortably would always give me a 20 or... That was his way of... Yep, and I was like, if I get rich, I don't need dad anymore. Oh, wow. And it's like putting a knife in his heart.
Oh, my goodness.
That one blew everything open for me when I realized that. And so, yeah, so those were the things, but it was really hopelessness, just like frustration and hopelessness, like, How am I ever gonna get out of this? And then I guess the feeling was hopelessness, despair, sadness, anger, frustration.
Resentment.
Yeah, resentment, yeah, everything.
Now did you resent people with money back then? Was it like, oh, you know, screw them, they're entitled, or they have this or whatever?
Anybody who talked about it, I was really resentful of. I was like, Shut up. Don't talk about money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What happens if we don't speak about money in a healthy way?
We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman. Yeah. And I think anything that's hush hush has, you know, and I do, I relate it to sex all the time. Like we're all supposed to be really good at sex, but you're never allowed to talk about it and you certainly don't learn about it, you know? So it's like this weird mysterious dirty thing. It really is. I mean, it's dirty. Money is dirty. You know, I don't want your dirty money. You know what I mean?
It's dirty until you don't make it dirty, right? Exactly.
Until you change it. Exactly. So just by like airing it out and talking about it and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not, you know, it's so not a big deal. And it's like, we all need it. You know, it's so funny. I always think like, you know, if I told the average person, like, I'm gonna give you 10,000 bucks, they'd be like, sweet. And then, you know, but talking about like, how do you feel about rich people? How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money? And the disparity, you know, the difference between that, like you want it, but there's still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in two of my books to write that letter to money, 'cause it's a really interesting exercise. You wrote like a love letter to money. Yeah, you just write a letter to money as if it's a person almost. So it's like, I love you. I wish I had more of you, but I don't trust you and I feel like a dirty for even saying that, and you know, all so all the all the things. And then you can see what you got going on.
This is a topic that I've been fascinated about for decades because I didn't have money at one point. Also, I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. I couldn't pay for the rent. I didn't buy food. I was just like living off of her for a year and a half when I was recovering from a surgery, a wrist that I broke playing football. And I was afraid of it. My father also got into a pretty bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured, where he was kind of that lifeline for me, where he'd give me a hundred bucks when I needed it and paid for things and just said, Hey, go live your dreams, and when you're done, we'll figure out what you're gonna do. He got in a car accident. He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.
Oh my God.
Ended up surviving, but wasn't able to work anymore. So he was physically alive, emotionally and mentally kind of not here. So he passed a year ago, but it was 17 years of him struggling, right, to try to recover. So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially in a sense. I mean, just give me a 20 or 100 bucks here and there. And he was no longer able to do that. So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, I don't understand it. I don't know how to make it. I don't know why anyone would give me money. Where does my value come from?
How am I gonna ask someone for.
Money when I don't even know what skills or values I have?
Right, right, right.
And early on, I started to learn from these mentors and coaches teaching me about money. And one of them was around the way we speak about money. Because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil or I'm not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us if we think it's bad and evil? We're going to be rejecting it or if we don't think we're deserving of it, why would we receive it? Why would we bring it into us?
Right.
And so I had to really shift this conversation 20 years ago around money and do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations, not talking about it like it's this hush hush thing, but just being more open and conversational and not being so emotionally heightened when you talk about it and learn from a peaceful place of talking about it. So I love that you have this write a letter to money. And really, I tell people, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate it.
Exactly.
And treat it like you're the greatest lover of your life.
Right? Yes.
Treat it like if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be giving you words of affirmation and physical touch and like gifts. If you want all these love languages, then you've got to pour into and appreciate the partner you're with.
Absolutely.
Tell them how grateful you are every day. Tell them what you love about them, what you see in them. And when you appreciate a person like you said, or if you appreciate money, it can appreciate in value and can do you in return.
Absolutely. It's energy and it really that like money is currency and currency is energy like I had to hear it like 6,000 times before I really got that money is energy. It's a frequency. So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it, and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just being in surrender and in alignment and having it flow in. So at the beginning, you asked me what my mom, you know, what my words were. So at first it was, I can't afford it. And then I eventually went to, Money flows to me easily and freely. And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was so in debt, but I had started doing all the energy work around it. And I was like, All right, what are my blocks? When you write a new mantra, it's all about really like the letter to money, like what just kept coming up and that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn't know what I was doing. So there was hard and stuck and Confusion, so flowing easily and freely was just like, yeah, even though I did not believe it at first, it wasn't about believing it. It was about the feeling, because we are emotional creatures. And that emotion, the frequency of emotions, was the flowing, the easily and freely flowing, was really, really powerful for me.
So now when you write a statement or a mantra that you're wanting to step into, but you don't believe it yet, Is that lying to yourself or how do we overcome this thing that, okay, this is what I want and this is what I'm stepping into and the feelings I want to experience, but I don't have it yet. I don't, I don't, and that's not actually true yet.
Okay, I'm just gonna say if you are not successful at what you wanna be successful for and you're feeling stuck, you're already lying to yourself because you're buying into the identity that is not in the flow. So that's the lie. So money flowing to me easily and freely because I live in an abundant universe and I am a creature who receives, that is the truth. So even though the identity that I'm in is not believing it yet, it doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm feeling it. So I always tell people, like, you don't have to believe it at first, like, but you have to feel it. So that's why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it. So ease and free and flow was the most important part of that.
Do you feel like, okay, you said you were around 40 years young when this kind of happened. Was there something in your life that was like, I'm just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades or like, I just want to see what's possible for me in this next decade. Was there something around that time that made you say, all right, this hasn't worked for 40 years of my life.
Yeah.
Now I'm gonna try something different.
You know, I think it was-- there really wasn't like, I didn't almost get hit by a bus, or, you know, I just-- I-- first of all, it's so boring being broke. Like, you can't do anything, right? Really, you can't do anything. So-- and I think it was just sort of a-- it's almost like I ripened, you know? It's almost like, how many times do you hear something before it's the aha moment? You know, why does that suddenly happen? I think you just finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason. So I'd started reading the self-help books and I was really into it and, you know, I made a bunch of half attempts at, like, getting my act together, but I think it was just-- I think I just ripened and then I made the decision. Like, I think really living in-- and it was like a one-car garage. Like, it was small. And I think after a little while of that, I said, I'm sick and tired of this. -KRISTIN: -KRISTIN: I am. 40 years old, you know, I can do better than that.
Right, right.
And so I think I was just so sick of myself.
My friend Dean Gracioci says, we pay attention to what we pay for. Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention more to, okay, now I gotta make my money back and I'm gonna make more than my money back. So I'm gonna focus, I'm gonna do all the painful things that she tells me to do. and I'm gonna be the best student I can be. Is that what your thought was because you invested?
Definitely. And I will say though, is I've had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing. So it's not a guarantee. So that is part of it for sure, 'cause I've also given like free coaching sessions to my friends and it's like the biggest waste of all of our time, right? But so I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real, but I think more importantly your attitude. And the decision. It's deciding.
-Ben: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. -SUSAN: Because you can decide to invest.
But you're still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes. -BEN: Absolutely. And I've been given things for free, especially at that time in my life.
Like anything I could get my hands on, I was straight A student.
So the money did have something to do with it, but I was- But.
You were also committed in free, pay, whatever. -SUSAN: I was ready.
-Ben: no, I was- you- were all in. -SUSAN: oh, my God. -BEN: Before you weren't committed. -SUSAN: Yes. -BEN: Because you had the emotional blocks that were just- Half. Yeah. And so I do think it was that sort of, it's sort of like the water hitting the rock, and then it's the Grand Canyon, you know, like reading the self-help books. Like, I did, I had started that a couple years before the garage. So I was sort of priming myself. And then finally I was just like, I'll do it.
Let's do this.
Hit me.
Yeah.
What was the book that really inspired you the most? The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles. Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, not only because it's like this big, because I'm super impatient, but I mean, it's super cryptic. It's like, it's all about the universe being a thinking stuff, and when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world. And I just, I just, it really, really, really spoke to me. I've read it hundreds of times. Really? Yes. Yeah.
What was the biggest takeaway from that book?
So happy you asked, 'cause I talk about this line all the time is, To think what you want to think is to think the truth, regardless of appearances. So this is everything, right? So mindset is everything. So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I'm living in a garage, in an alley, driving a car with no grill, like those are the appearances, but to think what you want. And I think the want is so key too, because that's your authenticity. That's not like thinking what other people think you should do and how you should live your life. To think what you want. the purpose that you were put on planet Earth to live out. That's the truth. That is the truth. So your desires are the truth, not what's physically around you.
Wow. So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires? That it's for something not just selfish and self-serving by itself or ego-driven, but more I don't know, driven by something greater, you know, because if someone says, well, I want to make a lot of money, or I want to make $100,000 in a year, or 500,000 or whatever it is, or millions, how do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don't hurt ourselves in the process of making money or become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?
I think you always come back to Is it fun? Does it give me energy or deplete my energy? And does it have meaning? Those are the three things that I'm really living my life by these days.
And.
I think that if you're in alignment with those three things and other things, certainly, but those are sort of my big three.
Is it fun? Does it give me energy? And does it give me meaning?
Yeah. And is it meaningful? Yeah.
Is it meaningful?
Yeah.
I like that.
Yeah.
And where were you at 39, doing things that weren't fun, that drained your energy and they weren't getting meaning?
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off. And then like when I really did the math, I was like, the amount of time I spent hustling for this gig and they don't pay that well, like magazine articles, come on. I was making like, I was probably losing money, quite frankly. So, yeah, no, there was none of that. It was not fun. It was exhausting. It had some meaning. But you gotta get all three, you know? Yeah.
Or at least start working towards it. Because you may not be able to at this season, but you gotta focus on, can I get one?
Can I get one? And is it leading in the direction- Can I have something that is fun, that is gonna give me energy and has meaning? Because you're right, like when you're building a company or when you're doing something like it is exhausting. But if it's still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah, yeah, it.
Doesn'T get to be a picnic all the time. When was the biggest aha moment for you then? Was it after you made a certain amount of money or a client paid you something, or was it just a feeling you had releasing all of it in the process of working? When was that moment where you're like, I'm actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money.
Oh, interesting.
Maybe I'm not abundant in money.
I can tell you, no, I actually did, and I did put it in youn Are a Badass, I put it in one of them. It was when I had, oh my God, it was such a cool moment. Because money is currency and currency is energy, right? So we're really gonna get woo-woo with the money, like really shifting the mindset around money. And bring me back to my story if I go off on a tangent, 'cause I'm about to go off on a tangent and I wanna wander, but I... Money is currency and currency is energy. Yes, money is currency, currency is energy. And I've had so many clients that have told me, and it's happened to me too, where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency and they focus on the amount, the exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn't even think of. And so my story is around that where I was working with my coach and we were really gonna shift my money reality. And so she's like, you know, what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now? Like what would have a lot of meaning? And I was like, $10,000 'cause I'm $10,000 in debt on my credit card and I hate being in debt. She's like, Perfect. And so she's like, okay, so how soon are you gonna make it? And she goes, you know, like about a week, two weeks. Cause I, you know, and I was at the time making like 30 grand a year. And I was like, my God, if I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible. And I was like, but you know what? I gotta do it in two days 'cause I know myself and I won't keep myself in that frequency. Like I'll lose steam and I'll decide that like, yeah, it's not, I can't do it or whatever. Like I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in. So I was like, all right, 10 grand in two days. She's like, great. Okay, so how are you going to do it? At the time, I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers. And I said, I'll get three private clients, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we're, you know, putting all the pieces in place. And then she's like, okay. And is there anything else? And I was like, well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching years ago. He was my first private client. I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour. And I was like, I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again. And she's like, okay, great. And we're still on the phone and I checked my email and he has written me. I have not thought of this man or communicated with him in years. Email, he's like, you know, are you still coaching? Can you help me? When can we start? Wow. And so she's like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna put together a $10,000 package for him and you're gonna sell it to him right now. Holy cow. I know.
And I was like, I was charging.
Him 15 bucks an hour. I was, and I really adore him. He's such a special person. And I was like, felt like, you know, a greedy pig, blah, blah, blah, all the things, fraud complex, gigantic, imposter syndrome. Oh, beyond, beyond. And so we put, she's like, and what we'll do is we'll put together a $15,000 package and a 10 so that the 10 looks cheap. And I was like, I can't do 15. She's like, all right, 12. Paid in my ass. Did a 12, sent it to him and literally wanted to throw up. I was just like, if he, 'cause I really cared about this guy, he bought the 12.
Holy cow. I know.
I know.
You're like, I should have made it 15.
I know exactly.
I know. Well, here's the thing. You know, it's not like you were charging him $12 an hour. Obviously, you created a position and packaging of services that would over deliver, that would serve him in a big way.
I worked with him for five years after that.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not like, I'm just gonna charge some number and then, Give very little. Oh, no. You made sure that the value was there. Totally. How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted? My coach helped me put it all.
Together, but then I had to rise to that frequency. And I'll tell you, you know, when you're charging something that scares the out of you, you show up with your A-plus game. And he did, too. It was a lot for him, too.
We knocked it out of the park.
Because you pay attention to what you pay for.
Yes. Right?
Yes.
Yeah, totally. You'll rise to the occasion.
I got to focus. Yes.
I'm going to give. I gotta show up on time. I gotta deliver the results on time. Absolutely.
Give my best here.
Yep. Interesting. So now here's, I'm curious about the next thing. Was that everything to the story first off? I wanna make sure I get- oh yeah, yeah. Okay. Money is currency and currency is energy. I'm curious about the next thing. So once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, this is crazy and this is more money than I've ever made in my life, essentially, in two days, Did you fall back at any point or did you stay focused?
Oh, interesting. Because sometimes people get an opportunity and.
They get excited and then, well, I tried it again and it didn't work. So maybe this is a fluke, maybe this was a one time and then the thermometer goes back down to what they're comfortable or familiar with.
Very common, very common. I did not, but only because I continued to get coaching and I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages. I mean, I was paying six figures. By the end.
100 grand for like a year of coaching or- Wow.
So I just, because I knew myself, I was like, I am rickety in this whole sort of wealth consciousness department. So I knew that I had, it's like getting a personal trainer, right? So I just kept investing in the coaching and now, now I'm good, but I do still have to work at it.
I mean- It's different levels.
It's different levels, you know.
I feel comfortable at this level, but.
If you wanna break through- Exactly.
Exactly. You do something you've never done, because.
You'Ve gotta have a different frequency still, right? Exactly.
You get, you know, yep, oh, there's always more growth to be had. Do you feel like you're kind of at like a block right now? Because again, you've sold, you know, I don't know, five or 10 million copies of your books. You've got coaching program, you've got all these success, financial freedom, all these different things. But is there like a level you've reached that you feel like, okay, well, can I break through this? This is so much now and I feel abundant, but could you break through?
If I could decide what I want the next thing to be yet, I'm still in that sort of incubation period of like, what would be fun? Give me energy and have meaning. I'm getting there. Like, I definitely feel like I'm getting there and I'm doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime, but it's not the big-.
What'S your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?
That I don't know what to do with it when I make it. Like, I'm good at making it. My bookkeeper called me one day and she's like, Would you please just open a savings account at your bank? 'Cause I had like a million dollars in my checking account. this was a while ago. I finally got my act together. So, you know, I've hired financial planners. Like, I've hired people who, grown ups who know what they're doing with money, but like, I'm teaching myself about it. But I find it boring. I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league. So luckily there are amazing people who.
Know what they're doing.
So I have finally gotten that team together.
Gotcha.
And there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention that is a little scared it's.
All gonna go away.
Really? Yeah. But I don't, I'm not, it's not that bad.
And I probably should not even speak it out loud.
Right, right.
Right?
Yeah.
Well, you're being honest about it. I think there's one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn't happen, but another thing about saying it so.
It doesn't have power over you.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, it's like if you're afraid of it, like you're afraid to have the conversation around money. Yeah. I'm all believer, like don't speak into something that exists, you don't want that to happen. But I think, you know, when I started talking about my fears and my shame and my insecurity, it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me. And now I can see it outside of me or I could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me and afraid to talk about. And then I could get coaching about it. And then I could, okay, let me create a game plan. Okay, well, I'm afraid of it, but now I have a coach to help me invest it the right way and whatever I need to do. As opposed to ignoring it and just, I hope I don't lose it, but I don't wanna speak about it.
Right, that's a good point. That is a good point. Okay, I'll tell you another one. What's the other one? We're airing out my dirty laundry. The other one is that I'm gonna make too much of it and I won't, and it is, it's kind of like the same as the first one, but I won't know what to do with it. Like I'm scared of it coming in too fast and too much, 'cause it's gonna bury me alive almost. Yeah, I know, I know. Oh, this is why, so I- Bury me alive.
Kind of, yes.
Why would it bury, why would money bury you alive? Just tell it to me what I--.
Well, this is the interesting thing, Jen. I think it's powerful that you're talking about this because there's different levels of insecurities or fears at the stages of money we make. And when I was broke on my sister's couch, I had a lot of fear and insecurity, uncertainty of the future. And then I remember one day I made $6,200 in an hour doing like a live webinar selling a program. This is in 2009. Okay. Before there was like courses and webinars, all this stuff. and I go, I'm the richest man in the world with $6,200. Now, I had to split that with the person who promoted this training for me, but I still felt like $3,100 in an hour. I go, I could do this every day for the rest of my life, right? Because I was sleeping on my sister's couch. But there was still, I never made six figures, and so there was still a challenge, like, how do I do this and how do I manage it and I understand it? And now taxes, what? All my money's gone. I just made money. I have zero again, this fear of like, this tax thing, and then you get to the next level, the next level, the next level. And I just think there's different challenges or things we get to overcome at every level of money as well.
Sure. Yes.
You know what I mean?
You level new devil, right?
Is that right?
Yeah.
So one of the fears is will the money bury me alive?
Yeah.
Why do you think that is?
Like, gosh, why do I think that is? I think it's my insecurity about not knowing what to do with it. When I had very little of it, I could manage it, right? That was easy. And then as I started getting more and more, and so I do have pieces in place, but I've opened, I've hired a new financial team so I can make, like build the nest and it will come. 'Cause I was like, if I don't take care of this, I will literally block it. I will energetically block it if I'm scared of it coming in and think it's gonna bury me alive. Like that is not a abundant mindset, you know? Sure. So yeah, so I just created the nest, so now. bring it on, universe.
Right, right. So now you can, you have, you have a foundation for it to come in.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's not scary anymore. Because I knew where it's gonna go. Yeah. But I realized that I was just like, wow, I am kind of scared of it coming in too much.
I know.
It's interesting, isn't it?
Yeah. I think it's fascinating. I think we all get to experience at different levels how to break through. Otherwise, wouldn't it be interesting if it was just, I don't know, there's no obstacle in, by like, you know, What do you think are the key things that abundant mindset people around money do differently than scarcity mindset people around money? If you had to say three or five kind of key things.
They appreciate it, as you said, that is a biggie. They appreciate it and they speak about it as they love it, they're not weird about it. They're also generous with it because when you pinch yourself off from giving, that is sort of a subconscious way of saying there's not enough to go around and it's not gonna come, I'm not in the flow. So when you don't give generously, it's 'cause you're scared that it's not gonna come in anymore. They take risks. You gotta take risks. You are where you are because you've been doing what you've been doing. So if you wanna change your life, you've gotta do stuff you've never done. What else wealthy people? They learn about money. You focus on money. That was such a big thing for me too. When I was broke, I never wanted to think about money, right? I was all about writing songs and doing much more noble things. Sure, sure. But then, but when you're broke, all you think about is money. I don't really think about money that much now that I have it. But every single decision you make when you're broke is about money. I would have to pay for this. Exactly.
I'm actually supported. What happens if I don't have money?
Right, you wake up in the morning, first thing in the morning in a panic because you got to pay your bills. So you're always thinking about money. So it is really just sort of getting in the flow with that and just, you know, being on good terms with it and focusing on it. And, and, you know, how are you going to make it? Like being realistic about your income streams and, you know, and if you want to make it, you've got to coax it in, you know?
Give it.
Yeah.
I'm curious about this. Okay. You you're a starving artist, you wanted to do noble things, which about art and making art and all these different things. What would have happened if someone would have said, Jen, you know what? I love that you're an artist. I love that you have this, you know, passion for art and you want to keep doing this. And this is the way you've been for 40 years. And we don't want you to change. Here's 100 grand a year for the rest of your life. Don't worry about money up to 100 grand. What would that have done to you if someone would have given you 100 grand a year? And you would have just been like, okay, I'm gonna write and do whatever I want. And how do you think it would have been mentally, emotionally, spiritually versus you having to risk emotionally and mentally. You getting to heal, let go, overcome. Challenge yourself into asking for money, into becoming something greater than that limiting belief. What do you think? Where do you think you'd be now?
Probably would have spent it on beer, honestly, back in those days. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't, you're absolutely right. It's a frequency, you know? It's like, I don't know. I mean, I always had, I guess, I'm gonna say gall, that's not the right word, but I did do a lot of stuff that was pretty edgy and I pushed the envelope a lot. So I may have gotten there, but I don't think it would have been as exciting as it was to do it myself. You know, there really is, you do grow and they say, you know, starting your own business is the best personal development course you can possibly do. Because all your stuff comes up, right?
All of it. Relationship training, it's leadership training, it's inner child training, everything.
Everything is pushed. Totally. So it wouldn't have been as satisfying, I don't think. I think I still would have done it though, because that is kind of my personality. When I'm ready to change, ready to change, and I do. Yeah, yeah. So, but I think it wouldn't have been as glorious, and I probably wouldn't have written you are at bats, which.
Totally changed my entire life. So- It changed yours, but also changed other people's lives. Yes. So it's who you become, the lessons you learn, the wisdom you have. Yes. To then be able to be of.
Service and teach from your own experience. Exactly. Yeah, the book about me getting 100 grand a year just for being would not be that interesting to people.
Right, yeah.
Right, that's interesting.
Yeah. What has been the biggest lesson in the last 10 years? Because that was 10 years ago when you wrote you were on bat, right? And you've written two or three books since then, I believe. What has been the biggest lesson three books since then?
Yeah.
What has been the biggest lesson in 10 years since you were a bat to now? Personally, physically, and financially.
Oh man. Let me think, okay, the biggest lessons since I wrote you are that.
Because when you get more money, more impact, more celebrity fame in an industry, people change around you. Some people don't, some people do. You get to make different choices with your health in positive or negative. You have more abundance to do bad things or good things. And you get to see how you show up emotionally, spiritually as well.
That's such an interesting question. I definitely feel like since it came out and has had the success, you know, that I've gotten better and better. It really, this sounds cold, but like not caring what other people think about me. Like that is something that I'm really dedicated to right now where it's like the one star reviews and the five star reviews, you know, it's like, believe me, I'm so grateful anybody reads the book, but the five star reviews are the real dangerous ones, right? Where you're just like, I'm so cool, people think I'm funny and smart. you know, really getting good inside, like just being like, it doesn't matter as long as I think it's good and I think it's funny and I think it's helpful, that's it. And so that has been really important to me because it is weird. I mean, I'm sure you too, like people know who you are and it's like, it's a little uncomfortable sometimes. I mean, it's great too. Like I love meeting my readers, but it's just like, I can't get too wrapped up in their opinion of me because it's about my opinion of me. So that's been a really big one.
Not, so not letting the opinions of others be the opinions of you about you.
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting. This really coming to the high hype.
And the low lows.
Yeah, definitely. Because you hear a lot about the low lows, like don't focus on the criticism, but you really got to watch it with the five star stuff too. That's interesting.
Yeah.
Because then if it goes away, you're screwed, right? You're totally screwed. I mean, that's why so many celebrities wind up in rehab, you know? Especially if you, I always think about this too that I'm so glad for me anyway that it started when I was older. If I was getting all these accolades, I would be such an idiot. I know, like no way. Oh, I'm really great. I'm so grateful for all of it, my God. Yeah.
Okay, that's personally, what about this lesson financially?
Financially, I guess I love giving money away. Like I didn't, I really honestly never thought I was that generous of a person, but I am. But so I'm very happy to find that out about myself because I didn't really think that I was, but also, That I was just making fun of this this morning with a friend of mine that I'm still kind of cheap with myself in ways. Like, I'm not great at like, I mean, I have a nice house, I have a nice car, I certainly spend plenty of money on myself, but I can just be like, I'm not good at being rich and like getting room service and like spending, I'm just, I'm still kind of, you know, the Italian immigrant's daughter who sort of pays attention. So not that that's bad, but- It's.
Interesting, I have a little bit of that in me, although in the last couple of years, I've started to learn how to take care of me, like with travel and food and convenience and saving time. Convenience. Whereas for, I don't know, the first five years of my business, I was making money, right? It's like, not like I didn't have money, but I was so afraid to lose it also. I was just stacking it. Every time I travel, I would try to find, who do I know in this town that I can sleep on their couch?
Yeah. Isn't it funny?
'Cause I was like, I'm not gonna pay 200 bucks a night for a room. What are you talking about? Like, I can use that money and I can put it somewhere else.
Yeah.
And I was always like, how do I just get on the cheapest bus fare?
Right.
How do I get like the middle back seat on Southwest? Like how do I get a $39 seat? Do I?
Yeah.
And just sit there for six hours in the middle and just, you know, crammed. Yeah. As opposed to, you know, convenience and saving time and having my health optimized and using it to do those things. But I was afraid to lose it. So it's just work, work, work to make it, but I was afraid to lose it for a while.
Yeah. And also like the value, like I still, and I make myself do, but I hate paying for parking. I would rather drive. And we're talking like $2 in a meter.
Like, I'm so weird about that. I'm like, you, rather roll on the.
Block five times to try to find a free spot? Yes, waste, yes, waste my time. Like, it's so stupid. But I crack up. But I also have this thing where like, I'll spend 60 grand to put solar on my house, but I won't spend $15 on a wooden spoon.
Like, I'm just, I don't know. It's just kind of funny catching yourself where you're, well, I think there's a, There's a, there's a power in being mindful with your money and being, I would call it frugal, I guess, maybe in certain ways, but abundant in other ways.
Yeah.
Right? It's like be abundant in certain ways, but don't just overspend on everything because you have the money.
Yeah, I guess. I know.
So be mindful of certain things.
Minding, you know, whatever level you're at too, you know, like when you don't have money, you also don't want to be pinched off and stingy with it. Like it really is about, this isn't just You know, two people with money talking about it, it really is about figuring out where you're at and how to stay in that abundance mindset and in the flow and leaving an extra dollar when you tip or whatever, you know, but just really catching yourself when you're pinching it off. Because it doesn't matter how much we're talking about, but it's that pinching off. If money is currency and currency is energy and you're pinching it off, that is not doing well for you.
Blocking it. What was the big lesson about relationships.
In the last 10 years?
Whether it be friend, colleague, intimate relationships.
Yeah, you know that people are still really uncomfortable with money and I do feel like it's being of service to talk about it freely and openly and joyfully and it totally turns people off all the time and close friends, absolutely. And, but taking a stand and doing it anyway. and really, like, I kind of do have to, I have to be a little careful because it can be braggy, but again, like, if I lost 100 pounds and I was telling you about losing 100 pounds, people would be happy for you. This is the same kind of thing. Like it's something that really is an achievement that helps me be healthy and happy.
Yes.
And why shouldn't I talk about it? And the fact that you're uncomfortable with it doesn't mean I shouldn't talk about it.
Right.
And sink down to your level, right? So that's been, and I have lost friends over that, absolutely.
Wow. It's interesting because we'll see, you know, on social media, these physical transformations of people. Here was me six months ago, here's me now.
Yeah. And a lot of you'll see a.
Lot of people celebrating that, right? Like congratulations, amazing, it's the encouragement, it's like look what I was able to do and I'm so proud of myself. And I wish more people would do that around money too. Look, like I was $30,000 in debt and look at my bank statement now. Like I'm debt free and I've got a thousand bucks in the bank. Oh my God. You know, whatever it is. And I think Dave Ramsey celebrates that for people in his, you know, kind of community where it's like when they get out of debt, he brings them on the radio show and they kind of announce it.
But I don't see this on social media that much. Because that's a safe space. Because everybody's listening to his show is talking about money.
-Yeah, you do it in the public.
Space, you are going down. -Yeah. -Why is that? -I don't really know. I don't know. I think about this too. Like, how did that all get started? When did it become such a dirty thing? It has, I'm sure it has to do with some kind of control. Like some people wanted to control something. So... Right.
I'm curious about, you know, if you're down to go there, about intimate relationships. How has making money impacted you intimately in relationship?
I am definitely, that is my Achilles heel right now. So that, and it's been a little weird for me 'cause being a very, I have stories around being a very successful woman. and how that's not so feminine and how, yeah, there's a lot of stuff on that. So that's the new frontier, which I'm super psyched about.
Figuring it out.
Yeah.
What do you feel like is the biggest struggle around that?
You know, is it... My own beliefs around it totally. Come on now. I know all this. It's all the same thing, you know, but that's a deep one. And it's kind of a new one, you know, because because I haven't been a successful woman for a long time. And so it's interesting.
Wow.
Yeah.
So is this like, you know, people just are intimidated by you because you have money or what is that?
That's what I think. Because men are supposed to be the providers and supposed to, you know, yeah, be the providers and to be more successful. And I don't really even care about that, you know, but I do care about somebody being at the same level of me spiritually and sort of just, you know, just with what they're into and stuff like that. So that's really important to me. Interesting. Yeah.
'Cause that might be a block for some women. Like, if I make more money, will I be in a great intimate relationship?
I think so.
If I make more than my partner, right?
Well, the way that it's set up anyway, that is sort of it, you know, that men and, you know, so I just got to find a guy who's either as as who's, who's got really good wealth Consciousness, who's as successful, who's totally out there. But it's, it's my own story.
It's always your story.
Yeah. What would you coach another woman who says the same thing?
Or who's like, they've got a, you know, a successful growing business, or maybe they're, you know, making a million dollars a year in their business or more. Yeah. And they're like, man, I've been struggling because. Yeah. I haven't found a guy who's comfortable with me making this much, they feel like they can't add as much value to the relationship.
Right.
What would you say to that?
Well, of course, Louis, I have had that client because the second you have an issue, that client shows up. I don't know if you fight like every time, because I'm doing this group coaching course and, oh yeah, like plenty of people in that group asked me the very question. So what do you say? So it's super easy when it's the end. Well, I know, I mean, I know the answer, but am I like really gonna live it is, Watch your thoughts. What are you believing about it? What have you decided is true about you, about your environment, about the way the world works? Like, it's all your thoughts. Like, if you keep harping on, it's hard, he's not out there, I'm to this, I'm to that, then that is the truth.
That's what your manifest or your practice is.
-That'S true. -To think what you want to think is to think the truth.
That's true.
Yeah.
It's interesting because my girlfriend, I was telling you about her a little bit before, she's extremely successful in what she does. She makes a lot of good money. And I celebrate it. I'm like, yeah. Awesome. For me, it feels great to have someone who's more, you know, energetically aligned or like more of an equal match.
Mm-.
Even though my business does more than her business, but she's making a killing, right, in her own way. And I'm excited for her.
Yeah.
And it doesn't make me feel like I'm not able to provide as much. with her making good money also. For me, it doesn't affect that within me. But maybe 10-15 years ago, it would have. Maybe I would have felt insecure or not enough because I hadn't worked on my stuff. Right. So I think it's just finding, you know, someone who's in alignment, who's a good match emotionally, spiritually, psychologically as well, who's done the work and doesn't find an intimidating. Exactly. I find it inspiring. I'm like, wow. And here's the interesting thing for me. not to go off on this too much, but for me, something switched in the last five to eight years where I had this kind of morbid thought where I said, okay, if I'm with a partner and I don't feel like she can be resourceful and I die, can she take care of my kids financially? It was kind of a morbid thought, but I was like, huh. And I struggled in the previous relationships that I was in thinking, would they be able to financially figure it out? If they didn't, if they didn't remarry, if they didn't find another man to support them financially, if they, you know, their parents didn't fund them, whatever happened, if I, we had kids, I died, could they financially be resourceful and do things that would make our kids proud of them? You know what I mean? And so, and that's my partner now. So it's like she is financially resourceful and creative enough to generate money if she needed to.
Right.
But I don't need her to make anymore. You know what I mean?
So, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, something to think about there. But, so that's one of your blocks right now, one of your challenges.
Temporary block, yes.
Releasing the blog very quickly.
Yes, I'm just airing all the laundry here. I hope when I leave this room, it all stays here.
Exactly.
Yeah.
We'll open the window so it goes somewhere else.
Please, get a fan.
Yeah. What is the, What is the question you get asked by your readers the most that you wish they truly could hear and believe the answer to?
Oh, so many. Well, the one that I said about what do you do when the people closest to you don't support you? Another one is how do you keep the motivation? Like, you know, we go to these seminars, we read books, we listen to the podcasts, and we're all raring to.
Go, and then a month later you go back in your hole.
Exactly, yeah.
So how do you stay motivated?
Yeah.
On your vision and on your growth journey? Yeah.
Well, I call it going to the spiritual gym, and you've got to have a spiritual gym practice because you do not get to work out physically and then stop going to the gym once you're in shape. So just because you got in shape at the seminar or listen to the podcast or whatever, you don't get to stop doing stuff. So, and it doesn't, and you know, everybody's like, oh, I'm working so hard to start my business. I don't want another thing to do. So it's like, it can be 20 minutes. You know, you working out for 20 minutes a day can do a lot of great things. So it's like spiritual gym workout, meditate for 15, read a self-help book for five. Like, what music are you listening to? Who are you hanging out with? What makes you feel like you could flip over a car? Like, what are those things? And do them every single solitary day for 20 minutes. It's not that big a whoopie doo. You know, when you think about that it's gonna change your entire life, you know, so, and take it as seriously as anything else because that work will make everything else that you're taking seriously and trying to achieve so much easier. And, you know, I'm giving a lot of talks right now, and the thing that I'm just so excited, and I'm so excited to be speaking right now too, because it reminds me it's my spiritual gym, right? Like we all need it. But the thing about, because we are spiritual creatures having a physical experience, right? And if you, and like, instead of just giving it lip service and talking, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. But think about it. We are the universal intelligence that created everything that is. We are, our thoughts, our universal intelligence, the stuff that created everything that is. Why are we not more stuck up? Why are we not feeling so powerful all of the time? If we're really gonna believe it, if we're really gonna go steroids on woo-woo and go there, And really, like, if you thought about that all day long about your thoughts being, you know, when you're in alignment, not the garbage thoughts that you think, but when you get quiet and you tap into your inner yippy skippy, as I like to call it, and you're there and you're in the flow, it's like, it's so exciting, right? Instead of spinning out on how pissed off you are at somebody, you're freaking out about this. Or judging people and gossiping.
Judging people and gossiping.
And that is what we do all the time, right? If you can just catch yourself, and that's why awareness is the key to transformation. Right? So you just catch yourself when you're in the spins. And this is why meditation is so important, because it gets you into the habit of catching yourself, right? Because you're trying to stay clear. So it's not just about catching yourself in meditation and moving the thoughts away. Meditation is practice for doing it all day long. So catching yourself and be like, Ah, I'm gonna tap back into universal intelligence, the stuff that created all that is.
So, and then just going from there. If you could reflect on you are a bad, which when I read it, it gave me like this jolt of energy because I was like, this is exactly what I want to talk about consistently. You know, I had, I had, the School of Greatness, I think, had come out for maybe, I don't know, I think I read your book maybe a year after I started. I saw it on the shelves, but I ended up getting it maybe a year after I started the show. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm so glad you're talking about this because it's everything that I believed in. and everything I wanted to continue to express in my own way. If you could reflect on one idea from that book, and you could only share one idea, you,'re so mean, man.
All right, let me pick a book.
That you believe is the thesis of the book that you want people to remember and remember a concept, a phrase, an idea from it. What would that be for you?
Well, Kind of what I just said, but since I just said it, I'm gonna use my point for another point.
For another one, yeah.
Use my one thing I get to say. I really believe that if we all did something that scared us every single solitary day, our lives would change so quickly, we would know what hit us, right?
Let's go, Jen.
And scary in that like tear-citation way, like terror excitement. Like you don't have to like run into traffic, you know? But something that's like in the direction of where you wanna go that scares you because fear is the sign, it's the compass that You're getting outside of the familiarity zone.
So true.
Right? So if you just take those steps outside and just do the scary thing every day, every day. Wow. 'Cause that's really when I was making all of my huge financial transformations. It was always, you know, my coach would always tell me something. I'd be like, totally didn't wanna do it, but I knew if I did it, it would transform my life. And it was exciting. You know, it was like leaping into the void just like, Yeah, and that's the sign.
I have this concept in my latest book, the Greatest Mindset, called Creating youg Fear List. If you want to become fearless, you've got to create a fear list. That's brilliant. And really go all in on this. This is something I did as a teenager in my 20s, my 30s, at different seasons of life. I was like, what is the thing that makes me feel so insecure right now? I had a lot of false confidence. I was like this jock ego, like I'm big and tough and I'm an athlete and I can dominate on the sports field. But then, I couldn't talk to girls without being, you know, sweating and being terrified. Yeah. I couldn't dance or sing in public without being, like, humiliated or, I mean, whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't speak in public also. So all these things I wrote on my fear list in my 20s after I broke my wrist and was on my sister's couch, I was like, I'm already humiliated. I have no money. I'm living in my sister's place for a year and a half. You know, my dad just went through this thing that I don't have him really in my life anymore. My passion, my dreams are gone. So I have, what do I do now? Let me just conquer all my fears. And it was the greatest gift I gave myself because it gave me so much belief and confidence in me every time I would just get a little bit better in my fears. It's not like I had to like overcome it all in a day. But I just saw a little bit of progress every day in practicing my fears, public speaking. a little bit every week, I was like a little less nervous, a little more confident, had a little more skill every week over a year's time where I was like, man, I'm a powerful human being. I can do anything now. Let me figure out the next fear and just kept repeating it. And I'm still in that now. I'm trying to learn Spanish and I still get insecure speaking Spanish. I'm still a beginner, but it's like, I gotta keep practicing and a little bit of growth every day, a little bit better. I don't have to be fluent overnight, but what am I overcoming just little by little? That really gives me a lot more confidence in self and belief. And I think my thesis is self-doubt is the killer of dreams. When we doubt self, it's really hard to do anything courageously because we're constantly in doubt mode. That's why I loved your book about stop doubting yourself and start stepping into your greatness. And a lot of people are stuck in doubt. What do you think beyond facing fears we can do to believe in ourselves more and overcome the self-doubt that we have better.
I think not waiting until you're ready, you know, and this is kind of saying the same thing, like facing the fear, but like making sure everything's perfect, making sure you've got all the money tucked away, making sure you're the right weight, you know, whatever, like just doing it now. just do it now and take action now is a really big one, I think. And.
Also.
Paying attention again to how you speak about yourself and what you think about yourself and how you treat yourself. And I wrote a whole section in Bad Habits about boundaries. Boundaries are huge when it comes to self-care and self-doubt. And we make lousy boundaries and put everybody in front of us because we want to be liked. And, you know, and then we're passive aggressive and resentful, which is super fun for everyone, you know? So it's like, but, you know, really getting clear on who you are and what you love and making that a priority.
When did you stop abandoning yourself?
You know, I still do it sometimes, of course. I mean, yeah, yeah.
In what ways do you, oh, God. Is it in relationships? Is it in self-care? Is it in the way you talk.
To your-- Not speaking, you know, sort of not, standing my ground in the moment if somebody says something really crappy, you know? And it doesn't have to be, I'm not, I also don't want to be the personality police, like if someone's gonna say something, but more just not saying anything, like instead of like brushing it over because it's awkward, just letting it sit there like the big turd it is and let everybody like have a good look at it instead of helping them recover or, you know, just like in the moment is always interesting to me. So, Slow me. So my mantra for the past five years has been like, slow down and shut up. Like, just slow down and shut up. Like, I'm, you know, just listen and just choose your words wisely. You don't have to react to everything. Exactly. So, yeah, for sure. That's personality.
Police is always.
Yeah. It's not your job to teach everybody how to behave. Let them say what they want. Let them, you know, and this is all part of my whole, like, not giving a crap what people think of me. It's just like, think what you like. think what you like. It's not my.
Right. It's almost, it's almost, you know, in a way, and I've done this many times, it's not like I'm saying I'm above or anything, but when we judge another person because they didn't do it the way we liked it or they think they should do it or it's appropriate in the setting, we are being judgmental.
Yeah.
We are being judgmental. We're not accepting. I'm not saying that's the right or wrong thing to do, but it's just something to notice.
Yeah.
There's a judgment that's happening.
Oh, yeah.
And when there's a judgment, there's usually.
A right and wrong. Yeah.
And so it's just, is that serving us in the flow of our peace, our happiness, our abundance, and being in harmony with the world? And maybe there is a time where we need to step up and create a boundary and say something and say.
Get away from me, or whatever it is, but... But it's really more about, it's the inside job thing where it's none of your business. You know, that's their journey. So that's really, you know, and I don't think we ever get there.
I don't think, I think it is.
Human To judge and to sit. And it's fun. Come on, let's be on that.
Sure, sure.
But I do think that it's a very worthwhile way to spend your time, like working that muscle and just getting, because it's also more fun. If you don't, if you just leave it to them and let them do it, you're not spinning out on it anymore. You're not focusing on it, which pulls more of it into your radar anyway. If you can just focus on what feels fun and good and true and just let them have it back. Right.
Where would you say on a scale of one to 10, let's call it the self-love inner peace scale, before you started writing youg Are About It, which I'm assuming was, I don't know, a year and a half, two years before the book came out somewhere around there.
I wish that I was that kind of writer. Before, before- 10 minutes before it was due.
It was more like- Right, right. Well, before the book, before you started writing the book, Where were you on that scale of inner peace and self-love? 10 being you had perfect peace internally, lots of love for self, care for self. One being you hated yourself and had no peace. Where were you on that scale?
Gosh, you know, it really sort of depends on what area of my life we're talking about. Because it's kind of a general feeling.
Of all areas combined.
Probably, Around a three or a four before.
And where are you now?
Now, giving myself an eight or a nine.
Okay.
Yeah.
What do you think shifted? 'Cause most people that I've asked this question to, before they became more successful, more wealthy, more known, they were usually higher and then they dropped.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Most people, I would say 90% of people have asked this.
Wow.
I'm always fascinated. And they say the pressure, the weight of it all.
Oh, God, no.
Do I, you know, Do I really deserve all this? That type of thing? -JEN: you: know. -DEB: so why do you think it shifted from you, from being a three.
Or four to an eight or nine? -JEN: Because of what it's about. Like for me, this whole journey of writing youg Are a Bats and all the subsequent books is all about loving yourself. I mean, I put Love Yourself at the end of every chapter. I know. So it's like, so this is all about getting into the flow and connecting with spirit and all that stuff. So for me, it's been such an education. and so nurturing. And the more I teach it, the more I talk about it, you know, it's me going to the spiritual gym, so it has helped me immensely. And I, yeah, and I also have this interesting sort of perspective on my success. And I don't know what this says about me that I can't take it in maybe, but I really feel like I'm watching all of it through binoculars backwards. Like it's over there and it's not me somehow. So I feel like I gave birth to the book. I did it. I wrote it. did the best job I could. Like, I'm very proud of the book, but I feel like the book is out there changing lives and that, and also that it's really the people who are reading it that they're changing their lives. I didn't change their lives, you know, I just gave birth to this thing because plenty of people read it and don't change their lives. So, you know, so I really credit the readers with changing their lives. I definitely helped them, but I didn't do it, you know, they did it.
Do you feel like you wrote this book for yourself? Because you were at a three or four, then.
Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, totally. Well, I love that, because we've done a lot of different similar, like, you know, meditative experiences and emotional intelligence trainings. And I went to, I think you wrote in the book, but I think you went to Hoffman Institute or something like that, right? Yeah, Hoffman. Did you go to that? I went to something similar. Yeah, called MITT here in LA, which was all about, you know, it's a multiple week-long experiences emotional, you know, exercises and screaming and yelling. Dieting and, you know, screaming, you know, these things.
Yeah.
And so when you wrote, when, when I was reading your book, I go, oh, wow. Because I had just gone through this. I go, I know the power of this, how, how helpful it is to release the emotions. Yes. The old stories, the old, the old narratives, the old, you know, beliefs that we have about ourself. There's many different modalities in doing that, but I went through a similar one for this year, so. I'm curious if you could look 10 years in the past with you being 10 years older. So you're 10 years older from now, but you're looking at binoculars in the past to today.
Okay.
And you are coaching yourself today 10 years wiser.
Oh, I know. Definitely stop complaining. That is one of my biggest goals is just to Really stop complaining. Wouldn't that be a lovely thing?
What do you complain about?
I don't even complain that much, but I would like to not do it at all. I really would. Like, I'm pretty good.
What does complaining do to us when we do it?
It makes you focus on the negative and pull more of that into your radar and just get you out of gratitude and lowers your frequency. And I'm the most charmed person I know, so seriously, So, you know, and you're allowed to have temper tantrums and you know, you don't have to be all Pollyanna all the time. I'm a big believer in pity parties and like freaking out and getting mad, but you don't have to be there and you get it out, right? Okay, so just making that choice. Number two would be, oh, I think it's about being more proactive about the things I love to do. Really, like, and I'm starting this now, like I'm planning a river rafting trip. I'm like, aside from spiritual Retreats and all that stuff. Oh, that was the other one was meditating more, getting my spiritual practice better. So getting more proactive about planning the stuff I love.
Activities, hobbies, experiences.
Yeah, because I tend to like- People, friends. I love doing stuff, but I really am not the best planner. And so like this year I'm planning, and then one of my top three favorite things is being outside doing some gigantic hike or camping trip or backpacking trip with people I love. So being the person who plans those because they don't happen unless I plan them. So, and they're super fun and I have plenty of people who will go, so.
Sure, sure. Yeah. And the third one was the meditation one.
Yeah, just really getting, I'm really good at meditating and I do have a good practice, but I feel like I could be more consistently in it and just, yeah, just up my spiritual game and my spiritual muscle.
Yeah. It's you coaching yourself from the future.
Yeah. Oh, I guess stop thinking that I can't meet a successful, that I'm too successful. That would be another one. Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think a lot of women sabotage their financial success because they don't think they'll attract the man of their dreams.
I bet they do. I bet they do because it's such an ingrained piece of our, you know, living in the patriarchy as a woman, like it's really Interesting. And it's such an exciting time to be a woman right now. I'm so excited I am just because I feel like there's so much stuff that is airing out, right? About the way that we've been raised and, you know, but I even still find myself, like, I had to hire a plumber and there was a female plumber. I was like, I'm not gonna hire her, I'm gonna hire him. And I was like, oh, really, Jensen Cero? Like, that was my knee jerk because we're raised to think men are more capable. And that's just deep in me so I can catch it and obviously not do that, but But it's so deeply, deeply ingrained that I am sure women are not letting themselves be successful because of that. And also that it's not ladylike, you know, that it's not feminine. And just all of these things that I don't think we're at all aware of that are now coming to the surface.
-Jesse: Hmm.
Definitely.
-Deb: Wow.
-Jesse: yeah.
How important is healing our past and our thoughts tied to having peace around making money.
Super important. Because if you're, because if you go out and make a ton and you're still weird about it, right? You're first of all not gonna enjoy it and you'll probably lose it. Or you'll be, you know, put it in a hole in the backyard and never spend it or- -Torn it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it is.
What is the thing that people should focus on healing the most? in order to set themselves financially free.
I think it's different for everybody. I think we all are fed different lies and fears and things. So I think it's, but figuring out what your bag of worms is, you know, you've got to get clear about that. And I'll tell you, the way that I discovered the big kahuna for me, which was my dad, like stabbing my dad in the heart like I was talking about earlier, was spending money. So the way that I, so I did, I did the letter to money. I was doing all, I was really serious about figuring out my stuff. with money. And I was at a coaching seminar and this coach was speaking from the stage and he said that he charged $85,000 a year to work with him. And he was great and I really loved him and I totally wanted to work with him. And when I heard $85,000, because I have been doing all this work on my wealth consciousness instead of being like, he's high, like what a, you know, but about a million- He's crazy.
Yeah, yeah.
Very rational excuses not to do it. Instead of going there, I went to, okay, how am I gonna get 85 grand? Like that's where my mind went first. And that's only because I'd been going to the financial spiritual gym for so long that that's where my mindset was. So I went, how am I gonna get $85,000? And I had a vision of my father. And a lot of stuff comes to me visually. A vision of my dad, and he always wore this yellow v-neck sweater, and he had his hands in his pockets, and he was looking down at the ground really sad. And I was like, oh my God, that's it. It's going to kill him if I get rich, because he won't be able to show me he loves me anymore. Oh my gosh. It was so profound, and that really was a straw that broke the camel's back for me.
So what did you do after that then?
Well, it was interesting. I ended up not working with that coach.
But I got you thinking about, yeah.
But I ended up hiring a different coach a couple of weeks later for the same amount. Oh wow. Yeah. Mm-.
So how did you heal that? belief around, like, I'm gonna kill my dad if I make a lot of money. Did you have conversations with him? Did you do something internally?
It wasn't about him at all. It was about me and my perception. So what I started doing was visualizing him being so proud of me, and supporting me, and being happy, and like turning it around just being like, He's gonna be so relieved that I can take care of myself. Because my dad had me when he was older, so it's like, he'll feel so rested. And the other thing too that was so funny, like my relationship with it was pretty rough. And so whenever, when I started getting, when I started making money, and I would tell him about it, he didn't really listen very well. And I'd be like, Dad, you know, I just got paid this much. He's like, that's nice. He has an Italian accent that I always try to imitate that I'm terrible at. At the end of the call, he'd be like, you know, do you need some help financially? And I'd be like, Dad, I just told you that. And so I'd get, you know, all After the yellow sweater, hands in pockets moment, I was like, it's the only way he knows how to show love. So I could be like, Dad, I just made $10 million. And at the end of the call, he- you- need 20 bucks. Do you need 20 bucks? I'd be like, you know, that'd be great. Thank you so much. And I could see how much it meant to him. And I get 20 bucks and everything's good. So it was a really beautiful and.
It really healed my relationship with him a lot.
Did he say, I love you? Did he speak- oh, he always said, I love you. Like he was good that way, but he was a real, He was a super introvert and he just was really uncomfortable with emotions. Yes. And he's Italian. I thought they're all screaming and yelling. And I was like, Are you sure you're Italian?
Sure, sure. But that was his way of showing.
Affection and that he loved you by this act. And he also was raised to think.
Men are providers and that's how you show-- yeah. Even if you make money, I'm still gonna provide and support you. Yes.
What do you think would have happened.
If you would have stopped allowing him to give you 10, 20, 50 bucks.
What a really good question.
Because he wanted to give it to you. What would have...
It would have really hurt his feelings. It really would have made him feel cut off from me.
So this is interesting because you don't need someone to pay for you for things, right? You can pay for your own life. You can pay for food and dinner and trips and your home. You don't need someone to pay for you. The thing that I've learned in the last couple of years of being with my girlfriend Martha, is that it's, it's, you know, I don't, she can take care of her own stuff and she takes care of certain stuff, and there's certain things that I take care of for us. That's it. And I take care of myself financially in certain ways, but I've gotten to the point where I don't feel like I need to pay for everything to feel like she, like, I'm enough.
Right.
Like, I'm, I'm good enough or that I'm, eight deserving or worthy, or this is my value in being able to give everything financially. Now, again, and I don't want to rob her of being on a paper, the things that she's made her money, I want her to be able to pay for certain things for herself. But it does mean I get to show up in a different way, maybe not financially, but spiritually with my presence, with my generosity of my words and my time, my thoughtfulness, and provide value in other ways not tied to money. And sometimes that can be uncomfortable if we haven't trained ourselves how to provide value outside of money in relationships. And I've had to learn that and it's been a powerful breakthrough in a lot of ways. It hasn't been in the last two years. It's been like a decade of me doing this, but It allows me not to feel like, oh, she's paying for her own food right now. I'm worthless.
Right.
Then I'm nothing to her. And it's been powerful to empower her to be able to make decisions financially, which she was doing before me. She didn't need me to do that. She was already doing that. But to me, I feel like I have to pay for everything. And she just has to let me provide.
Yeah, I know. It's interesting.
It's more of a mutual providing of value in the relationship intimately. peacefully, like the highest currency for me is peace.
Yeah.
I would take peace over money all day long. And she brings peace to the relationship. Therefore, I don't need her to ever spend money on anything. Just be peaceful and I'm, you've got a happy man, you know? But, and I think that's just something to look at. Like what, how can you bring value into a relationship?
Yeah.
Related to money.
Yeah. Listen, Louis, I'm cutting you a check after I leave. Like the fact that you said that right after I was like, oh, of course it's my daddy stuff. I mean, come on. Yeah? Yeah. No, that is something to look at for sure.
What was the best lesson your dad's taught you?
You know, he... Well, I don't know if this is such a great lesson, but it's a really funny line, so I have to say it. But I remember when I think he taught me a lot about perspective, because he grew up in Italy, in Naples, and he didn't come over here till he was in his 20s. And so I did, and he just always thought American children were so spoiled. He was like, oh my God, you whiny little. Like, I can't even, so I remember like one time, like in college, I was like, Dad, will you help pay for therapy? I'd really like to talk to a therapist. He's like, you don't need therapy, you know what you need? A war fought on your soil. And I was like, oh my gosh. Okay, right, good perspective. But just sort of his, I mean, I think also that you can love in different ways. Like, I feel like that's sort of what he has really taught me, you know, with the money stuff. Like, that was just his, you love however you can, and that he really did, I mean, the guy could not look at me without crying. Like, he just, that's true. But he couldn't express it. So it was like, it was really, like, he couldn't, and I was so angry at him for so long for not- Telling you certain things. Yes, and not listening to me the right way and all that stuff. And I'm just so, he lived into his 90s and so glad he did because I feel so good with where our relationship was by the time he passed. Because I put down the bag, you know, I was like, Let it go, Jen. Like he is doing- Yeah, he's doing his best. the best that he can. And he loves me and how lucky am I that I have a dad who loves me that much. So it was really, really great. So I just feel like he really taught me a lot about it doesn't have to be the way you expect it to be. It can be different. Somebody can love you differently than you would love them. and that you expect it. And to be grateful as that they do.
Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that.
Yeah.
I want to ask you about coaching because I've heard coaching a few times as an athlete. I know the value of coaching from sports into business. I have a relationship coach, health coach, nutrition coach. I have coaching in every area because coaching worked for me as an athlete to get to my goals and accomplish the dreams that I had in sports. So when I transitioned from sports into life, the first thing I did is look for mentors and coaches to guide me on my path. I don't think I'd be where I am today without having great coaches and guides. Do you think we should all find a money coach or have some type of coaching within money, whether that's a financial advisor or maybe it's reading your book around money or listening to content about money or Should we have guides and coaches?
Yes. I mean, especially if you're not making it. Like, you need money and you need it now, you know? So get a coach. Like I always talk about Olympic athletes have coaches. Why do you think you and your scraggly little trying to scrape it together? Why do you think you don't need one? You know, that's what got me doing it. I was just like, who am I kidding? I've been trying for 40 years on my own and I couldn't do it. Right. Yeah, no, I think coaching, I think coaching because also we all know what it's like, like when you're saying, you know, how would I coach somebody who's going through what I'm going through? Super easy, right? When it's not me. So that's what a coach also does. It's like they see, they're not in your forest with all your trees. Like they're looking at it without all your around it, you know, so they can see it so much more easily. And so a good coach can save.
You so much time and money in the long run.
Do you have a coach right now? I don't have a coach right now. Yeah, but I'm still in that sort of incubation. Maybe I need a coach to help me I want to do it. But, yeah, no, but I'm not scared of hiring them.
I mean, I love, right, right, right. But it, you're in a season of discovering and reflecting on what you want next.
Yeah.
You've done so much in the last decade and.
Yeah.
And now you're figuring out, okay, where am I at? Yeah.
What do I want to contribute or.
How do I want to show up?
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It'll come to you. It's fun. And I'm still, and, you know, I'm still doing stuff and I, I really believe in not sitting around and trying to figure it out because when you're about to do something new, you don't.
Know what it is.
You've never done it, so you gotta go out and do stuff. Try things. Try things. So I'm out there trying things for sure, and I'm, you know, and I'm still doing all the bad stuff. You know, we've got a lot of really cool things happening in that arena. So that's all super duper fun.
That's great. That's great. But just, you know. Live the dream, Jan. I got a couple of final questions for you. Okay.
What is the thing you're most proud of that most people wouldn't know about you? I would say that I'm a really good friend. I have friends, I have lifelong friends from forever and a lot of them and we're just like a family. That's cool. I feel like I'm an art collector and I have all these masterpieces of humanity that I just, I pick good ones.
That's a great.
And I keep them around because they're really important to me.
That's cool. I like that explanation of it. You're an art curator of humanity.
I am.
I like that.
I'm telling you, I want to have an unveiling, which will just be called a party to some people, but.
I like that a lot. I asked you this question on our previous interview that was a virtual interview, but I'm curious your response to it now. So we'll have to reflect afterwards on what those answers were before to where they are now. This question is called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want to live on this earth. But then one day you turn off the lights in this physical world. And you get to create and achieve and accomplish all the things you want to do. But for whatever reason, all of your written audio and video material has to go with you. From all your books and this interview and everything is gone. Hypothetical scenario. But you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons you would share with the world. And this is all we have.
Okay.
Left of your words. What would be those three truths for you?
Well, let's see. Three truths would be the most important thing to develop if you want to really live an awesome life is your mindset. Really develop your mindset and pay attention to it. Do the scary thing. Definitely do the scary thing every single day.
And.
Have as much fun as you can. Like, what else are we here for?
Yeah, that's beautiful. You have, again, 10-year anniversary of youf Are a Bat. You've got other amazing books as well. You're a bestseller at making money. You're a bestseller every day. Bad habits. So many amazing books. Number one New York Times bestseller. You've got an amazing course, I believe, as well. Coaching course.
Group coaching course. Group coaching course.
@Jensincherro.Com, S-I-N-C-E-R-O.com, where they can get that information. What do they get in this course and this coaching?
Well, I'm doing it live now, which I haven't done in eight years, and it's so much fun. I missed coaching. I really missed talking to other people. And I've been selling it as a DIY course for a while, but now I'm back in it. So basically you get, it's eight weeks long. And what I love about this course is I wrote it right after I finished writing youg Are a Bad So I put in a lot of time management and sort of like brass taxi kind of thing, and every other week is a spiritual element. So you start applying the spiritual to the tactile. So because I really feel like we talk about all this stuff, but unless you're actually doing it while you're taking action, who cares? So people, that's been so much fun. So basically you get a video at the beginning of the week, you get a PDF with the video, and then every other week you get 90-minute coaching, group coaching call with me.
That's cool.
That's recorded, so if you can't be there, it's fine. Or a guided meditation or a guided motivational, something or other. Yeah, it's really fun. And a Facebook group where you can hang out with the other people in the course.
Everyone can use more coaching from you.
Ah, thank you.
The synergy, I love it. You're also on social media everywhere, Janice and Chero everywhere on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. What's the main platform you hang out the most? I like Instagram the best. I do too. to make sure to follow you there. So if you enjoyed this, make sure to follow, share a story, leave a message about your biggest takeaway from this episode on social media and also in the comments below over on YouTube. I want to acknowledge you, Jen, for your journey, you being an example of what's possible for people. Someone, you know, your whole life until you were 40, really being stuck in a mindset and having the courage to break through. through taking action on your fears consistently, through investing in yourself, through investing in coaching, through being willing to risk feeling vulnerable, feeling overwhelmed, feeling embarrassed, feeling like a failure at times, and doing it consistently over the last, I guess, 15 plus years now. So I really, really acknowledge you for you being a channel to share this work with the world and impacting so many people along the way. It's been a beautiful Journey to Watch. I'm a fan of you, your work, your books. It resonates so much with me. So I acknowledge you for the gift that you are to humanity as well. It's beautiful.
Thank you so much. It's so nice to meet you in person. You're like the easiest, but you're totally kindred. You are like, you're just nice there all day. Yeah.
My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?
Allowing yourself to be, do, and have everything that lights up your little heart. People are like, Money can't buy happiness. I'm like, yeah, you can certainly be unhappy with money, certainly. But it's so much easier. Money is just gives you options and freedom. I love options and freedom. Options and freedom make me happy.
Yeah, you still have to heal your past. You still have to learn how to manage.
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