How to Create a Financially ABUNDANT Life | Lewis Howes

The investment money is working to build you wealth. You become wealthy with your investment money. Your savings are there to protect you against an emergency. Your spending money is what allows you to live your life. What is it that you want to be investing in and how long are you investing for it?

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We'll get into now, how do you live more, live better today by earning more money in a bit, but this is where now, the passive investing is the most accessible way for somebody to start investing. And then somebody's going to say, what do I invest in? Right? Because we're talking about, well, you can invest in the stock market. There are funds like there's index funds, ETFs, mutual funds. They all work similarly with some nuance differences that allow you to invest into a basket of stocks, a group of companies. So, for example, I like ETFs just because they're very convenient. So you invest in a ticker symbol ETF stand for exchange traded funds. So, for example, if you wanted to invest in the stock market, the general stock market, there's a fund, an ETF called VTI. Now, I'm not telling you what to invest in, just giving you some examples. VTI is a total stock market ETF. If you invest in that one ticker symbol, you're getting exposure to the United States stock market.

You're getting diversified.

Getting diversified in the stock market, not across different asset classes, but within the stock market. and you could then, you know, pick, oh, I wanna invest in, let's say the S&P 500, which is the 500 largest companies in the stock market. SPY, there's a ETF that gives you exposure to that. Let's say you wanna invest in the Dow Jones, that is the most commonly discussed fund. It is a group of 30 companies in the stock market, big large companies. DI is a ETF that gives you exposure to that.

So you can invest in three stocks, which would be hundreds of stocks throughout those three investments.

ETFs, yeah, those three ETFs you'd get exposure to hundreds. not thousands.

And all you need to do is invest in those three things and set it and forget it.

And now you can just set it, remember automatic. So the key here now is you invest when the market's up and down. You don't change it. So when you see the market crash happen, you don't stop. You keep investing. The only thing that you would change is potentially buy more.

Yes.

Because when you see these types of market pullbacks, most people are selling and they're running away because they're panicking and getting scared that my investment is going down. that's when you want to be coming and buying aggressively because now investments are going on sale. And so this is where it's again, that mindset shift of understanding what is it that you want to be investing in and how long are you investing for? If you're investing for the long term, who cares what's happening in the next two months or next two years? You're investing for the next 20 years. I call it a decade of sacrifice. If you want to become wealthy and seriously wealthy, not like, oh, I have a little bit of money. No, you want to become wealthy. You got to put in what I call the decade of sacrifice, where you're working to spend less and earn more, that way you have more money to invest. And most people are not willing to go through that sacrifice because that means I can't have that Gucci belt today so I can have more investments today. I can't show off my stock portfolio or my real estate portfolio the way that I can my Gucci belt. And most people would rather have the show, would rather have the look, than the actual thing that will make you wealthy. And that goes back to the mindset, the thing you talk so much about. your mindset has to be focused on saying, you know what, I want to become wealthy. And that's hard because now for one, you have to be convinced yourself. And now you might have a spouse, you might have kids. And that means you all have to be on the same page financially, right? Because money is a team game. It's in the house. If you think, you know, I'm going to go and try to build my wealth myself and then your husband or your wife is going out and spending all this money, they're going to be pulling you back. So you got to be on board where I'm mentally on the same page. My spouse is on the same page. My kids are on the same page. We're going to build wealth and we're going to build something that we've never seen before. And that's that first mindset where now I believe I can do it. I'm going to do it. Now you start putting in that sacrifice. So we started about the passive investing. Next is active investing. And I also should mention that you.

Can do passive and active investing. I do both. I do.

What's the example for you? So I invest my money in five places. I invest my money into businesses, which are my own businesses and startups that I invest in, invest my money into physical real estate, invest my money into stocks, invest some of my money into cryptocurrency, a little bit more of a speculative play, and then I invest a small piece of my portfolio, about 2% of my overall investment portfolio into physical gold. So my gold, my cryptocurrency, and some of my stock market investments. are passive, meaning this happens for my stock market every week, for crypto every day, for gold every month. It's the automatic, passive and consistent. I don't touch it. It is automatically pulled out of my checking account and it is invested. Interesting.

And your bank, you can set up parameters in your bank to automatically do this. Yes. Two specific places you want to invest.

Exactly. That's nice. Technology has made investing so much more accessible.

Do all these banks do this or.

What are like the top few that you see that many banks will allow you to move money from one bank account to the other. These investment accounts, you're going to have to work with a particular brokerage. There's tons of brokerages out there that do this. You can find whatever you like for, let's just say you want to invest in the stock market. There's a bunch of brokerages out there that will allow you now to invest your money into the stock market through this passive type of system. You just have to find what's right for you. And this could depend on what country you're in, you know, and just the, your, what interface you like the best. And it's become very accessible. There are so many, it is so much simpler now than 10 years ago, let alone 50 years ago. So we are very blessed to be able to do this now. On the active side, this is where now I invest into my own businesses, I invest into real estate, and then I also invest in some stocks.

You do real estate funds or do you do your own individual real estate buildings yourself?

I have done some real estate funds. but that is the smallest piece. Most of it, probably 99 point some percent of it, is actual physical real estate that I'm going on and buying myself. And so now it's when we talk about active investing, what does this mean first? This means now that you are going out finding investment opportunities to invest in and then you're putting your money in and now this is where the research is important. So like for example with business, I invest in my own businesses. I also invest in some startups. Startup investing is very risky. Nine out of 10 startups will statistically fail. So I know that when I invest my money in these startups, a big chunk of this money will I will probably never see again. But my goal is now that a small piece of these startups that I invest in will go big and then that will make up for the other losses. Yes. With real estate, my goal is completely different. With real estate, my goal is cash flow. I call it cash flow because cash flow funds the guac flow. And what that means is now when I own a cash flow producing asset, I'm getting money coming into my account now every month with my real estate that I don't have to actively work to earn because I have a property manager company in place, I have a system in place. So it's not like I have to go to work to earn this money. I buy the properties, I have the systems where we renovate the properties with the contractors, we do the right inspections. Then I give the keys to the property manager. My job is done. Now, every month I'm getting cash deposited into my bank account. Every month and every quarter I get financial reports going over what's going on with my properties. So it's hands off. I still review the properties. Like I review the financials, I review what the property manager is doing, but I'm not going to work to earn this cash. Now, I should also say it took me a ton of work and a ton of time and a ton of headache and a ton of mistakes to learn how to do it the right way. Yeah, because I didn't grow up with real estate investors in my family. I had to go out and just kind of do it and figure it out. And it was very stressful. A lot of people on the internet make real estate investing seem like this, Holy grail, go buy some real estate and you're gonna be swimming in the dough.

But here's the thing, when you buy real estate on your own, it's almost like a full-time job managing the property, managing, if you're doing the Airbnb or short-term rentals, it's like you're gonna constantly clean and adjust and promote it and market it and deal with the Airbnb stuff. or you need to find someone to pay to manage it. But ultimately at the end of the day, you got to deal with the taxes of it, you got to deal with the expenses of it, you got to deal with the fixing of it, you got to deal with the regulations around it, whatever it might be. So how do you invest where it doesn't become a time suck and an extra job in real estate, but it's actually cash flow that is more passive. Is that even possible with real estate?

I can only speak from my experiences because for me, It was a huge time suck.

It was like a full-time job.

It was more than a full-time job. I couldn't sleep at night because of how many issues I dealt with.

But so why be in real estate today if it caused you so much pain previously?

Well, see, you go in with a vision, right? Like entrepreneurs, you have to be a little bit crazy. You don't know how something's gonna work out, but you're putting in countless hours, you're not sleeping at night, you're sacrificing vacations, you're not talking to your family, you're doing a bunch of crazy things because you think this thing is going to work. That's how it was for real estate. I'm known for being like that stupid person and I've always been that thing. And for me, it's like I believe something so much that I'm willing to make a lot of sacrifices and keep doing something. And for me, when I invested in real estate, I was 19 when I started, when I bought my first property. And I did it kind of all by myself because I told my dad I wanted to invest in real estate, and I grew up in a very traditional Indian house. My parents are immigrants. My state in India called Punjab. So my parents came to this country with very little. And so. Yeah, exactly. You got the pangat moves down. That's our dance. We were just talking about pangat before this. It's a traditional dance. But my parents came here with very little, and, you know, they wanted me to be a doctor, and it was very, like, strict that you have to become a doctor. Nothing else is the option. So anything that wasn't medical related was like. A big no-no.

So becoming a lawyer, you were a failure.

I was, yeah, that was a huge compromise for me to become an attorney with my parents. But this is before I even became an attorney where I said, I wanna invest in real estate. My dad was like, and I was actually studying for the Medical College Admission Test when I had the idea to start investing in real estate. And I had some cash saved up because I was working on an event planning company at the time when I was in college. My parents didn't know about that. So I was making a little bit of money and I was like, I wanna invest in real estate. My dad's like, you,'re stupid. go study, go become a doctor, and then worry about all this other stuff that you're doing. So I was like, all right, I'm just gonna do this without telling you.

Yeah. You know? So how much was your first deal?

It was a small condo that I bought. The condo about three or four years prior to me purchasing it sold for about 150 Grand. It went through foreclosure. The banks had it listed for eight.

Thousand four hundred dollars. Oh, man, you got the jackpot of that thing.

It sounds like I. I made an offer. For four grand.

Oh my gosh.

I didn't know what I was doing, right? So I'm like, well, Did you get it? Well, I put it off for four grand. They said, we'll give it to you for 7,000. And I said, no, I don't know what I offered. Something else, maybe less than five grand.

Yeah.

And then another person came in to potentially buy the property. And so the bank says, we have another offer on the table. Give us your highest and best offer. Now, to put this in perspective, I didn't know this was a good deal. because I'm 19. I knew nothing about money.

Five grand's a lot of money at 19. It's like all your money.

Yeah. So I know nothing about investing. I didn't know what passive investing was. I had only read books about investing. So I'm, I'm reading some books and now I'm just going out doing it because I know nobody in real estate. I didn't even know you could invest in real estate. So I'm like, okay, well somebody's making an offer. I kind of like this deal because I'd looked at a few other properties. So I was like, well, how about I make an offer for eight grand? we'll see where they go. And the bank took my offer. The other person offered less than what I did.

Wow.

So I bought it for eight grand, I put in a few thousand dollars worth of work, and then I listed it for 600 a month. And the profit on that was between 250 to 300 a month, depending on the month, which now sounds great, right? This is the, the beauty of real estate. The downfall is it was a big pain because I didn't know what I was doing. I hired a I don't want to say scam property manager because I haven't been able to validate that, but I don't know if they were licensed. The tenant moved in, we didn't have a lease. The tenant was absolutely crazy. They had my phone number. So now I'm going to class. Like I remember I was coming out of my chemistry classes or my physics classes and I had these voicemails, these multi-minute long voicemails of the tenants talking about how the world is ending. They're like, this property is going to go up in flames. So I was like, what's going on? I get an electrician out there. We go to the property and this is like after multiple issues that happened, I went with an envelope of cash. I probably had like $50 of cash in this envelope that I gave to them because I felt bad for the tenant. Electricians looking at the property, they're like, yeah, your light bulb fused. We can just replace that. That's it. That was it. There was an instance where they were cutting cucumbers on the countertop. They missed the cucumber, they scratched the countertop. She calls me crying that she needs a brand new countertop. Oh my gosh. I gave it to them.

Oh.

Because I didn't, I don't know what's going on. So like, I dealt with a lot of issues and that was just the first one. I've been like the first, I would say three were my learning curve where I was like a full time, like I'm on the phone talking to people trying to find contractors, I'm trying to find the right attorneys, I got screwed over by attorneys. I mean, I made every mistake possible.

Why'd you keep doing real estate after the first three failed?

Yeah, see, this is where the stupid comes in out of me. well, I read books and people talk about how investors own thousands of real estate units. I was like, how can somebody deal with thousands of tenants like this? Like, it's not possible. Like, there has to be a system. I just had to figure out how to crack that code. How do I break this system? And that was my journey was learning it. And it was very painful, very expensive and very stressful because the third deal literally depleted my bank account. I was talking to my wife about this the other day where that third deal was so stressful because I made every mistake possible. I talk about this on YouTube. It's my worst real estate deal ever. I bought the deal because my contractor told me it was a good deal. He told me that, hey, we can fix it up for not a lot of money. And because it's such a good deal, you're gonna be able to make a lot of money on it. So he's like, don't even worry about getting an inspection on the property. Just go ahead and buy it.

Mm.

That's what I did. I trusted him, right? Bought the property, gave him the money, he ran away. I didn't know that he wanted the money because he was running into financial problems. Then this property, it turns out, had a lot of defects behind the scenes, which I didn't know. We had the city come out and look at the property, and it was the repairs cost way more than what the actual property cost. And so now I was really in trouble because I wanted to get this property rented out. My bank account, that property account literally went negative and I had an overdraft fee on this account, which I had no money to pay at the time for that property because I was putting all my cash into this. And like I was saying before, I was in that event planning party business, which was a cash business. So I had like literally a bag of cash in my room. So I went to my last resort, which was I pulled out the cash out of my bag and I gave it to the contractor. I was like, dude, we got to get this done. I need to get this. I need to get some income out of this property because I couldn't sell it.

Right.

I couldn't get a certificate of occupancy. I couldn't rent it out. And so it was like, I was so stuck. I was fortunate that I had that cash, but, I mean, it was a tough situation. That was my real life tuition. Like, that was where I learned. Like, I say that one deal taught me years worth of real estate in one property because I learned so many things. Wow. That I should not do. But then from there, you know, I was able to stabilize. I made some more money with other Ventures that I was doing because I was making money for one reason to buy real estate. Like, that's all I was doing and losing it in the I was losing in real estate, but I was learning, right? That was my learning process. So I guess I can't, you know, I, I wouldn't change it because I learned a lot from it. Very stressful.

Like, when I say I lost sleep, I lost a lot of sleep during that time. So when you're gonna buy a property now, what is the approach that you take so that it maximizes your return, saves you time and energy and minimizes stress? If you like, what is the approach? If you're like, okay, am I buying single unit properties? Am I buying apartment buildings? Am I buying duplexes, fourplexes? Am I Am I working with another investor and buying a bigger deal? What is that thought process into buying a deal? First off, and then how do you set it up so it doesn't take you a lot of time to manage it?

Sure. So I would say the first thing is I need to know what my return is going to be. And generally, my general rule of thumb is I need a 7% cash on cash return annually. And what that means is for every dollar that I invest, I want to see 7 cents of cash flow. that's money that's hitting my bank account after expenses that has nothing to do with appreciation. So I want to look at those financials. I want the seven percent cash on cash return. Then I got to look at where am I investing? So I like to invest in areas that are growing that have more like up and coming-ness to it. So this is now I want to see populations at least stable, if not rising. Do a quick Google search of any city and Google will tell you what's happening with the population. It's made it so easy.

Wow. What are the top three cities that are rising that are also not over, I guess, overpriced right now? What are those top cities?

Let's see in 24 months where that actually is because we're going through this correction in real estate right now. So let's see where interest rates go because that's going to influence that's true. Housing prices and real estate prices in general.

Interesting.

But keep an eye on interest rates. The general thing is as interest rates go up, property prices will go down. So let's, let's, we discuss that.

What do you think is going to happen over the next 12 months with interest rates?

Well, the Federal Reserve Bank says that they're going to raise interest rates. And if they keep doing that, they're going to push this economy into a.

Lot of pain because it came down a little bit, right? Recently.

So mortgage rates and interest rates are two different things. So, okay, interest rates set by the Federal Reserve Bank. are called the federal funds rates. This is the interest rate that one bank pays another when they lend each other money overnight. So think of it like the wholesale price, right? When you go to buy this mug from Amazon, Amazon's buying it from the manufacturer. They're buying it cheaper. Then they sell it to you at a marked up price called the retail price. So banks have this wholesale price called the federal funds rate. Then they jack it up and sell it to you as the mortgage rate. So federal funds rates, the Fed rate, can influence where mortgage rates are going.

So interest rates can be different than mortgage rates?

Right.

They are different than mortgage rates. What's the current kind of interest rate at the time of this interview?

For mortgage rates? For the interest rate versus mortgage rate? So the federal funds rate right now is right around 5%, just under 5%, the federal funds rate. Mortgage rates are hovering around the mid 6% for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage. Wow. Now the question is, where are we going to go from here? The Federal Reserve Bank has a mission to fight inflation. That is a big deal. It is a super serious problem and we've discussed this in other interviews. I'm not going to go too deep into like what is inflation, why that's happening. We have an inflation problem and that is a serious problem because if we don't solve the inflation problem, then we risk a serious currency crisis. We risk potential hyperinflation. We risk our are dollar losing the reserve currency status. So it is a serious issue to bring inflation down because, yeah, a recession is bad. A currency crisis is even worse. That's why the Federal Reserve Bank is working to increase interest rates because that brings down inflation. Now they're looking to increase them.

Increase interest rates. And what about the mortgage rates?

So that pushes mortgage rates higher. Higher. So now Rising interest rates have The consequence. And that consequence is a slowing economy because when you raise interest rates, it makes borrowing money more expensive. Unless people want to buy more money, less people buy. And now, if you remember what we said just a few minutes ago in our economic system, spending is good for the economy. Higher interest rates, less spending, bad for the economy. Our economic system wants people to spend money. In fact, they want you to be in debt and spend money because if you're in debt and you're spending money, they're making money. They're making more money. They want you to be in debt because more debt means more spending today that grows the economy.

They don't want you to win.

They don't want you to win.

They don't want you to be spending.

Exactly.

Think of all the amazing things in life that are expressions of just you. For instance, the song you stream over and over again while you're in your 13th hour of gaming at 4:00 a.m. in the morning with all the lights off trying not to wake up your roommates. Or the recommendations that you share with your friends on the top six comedy podcasts that are the best to listen to on your way to the gym and back. Even your new haircut, which may or may not be an epic bowl cut from the 90s and hopefully is, everything that makes you, you, makes all the difference. State Farm believes insurance should work the same way. Your plan, your coverage, they need to be personalized to you. And the ability to choose the plan you want by picking the options that fit you, like building your home and auto policies, is exactly what the State Farm Personal Price Plan is all about. Getting the coverage you want at an affordable price just for you. So, are you ready to make things personal? Call or go to statefarm.com today to create your state farm personal price plan. Prices vary by state. Options selected by customer availability and eligibility may vary. When I see payments come through in my email or my bank or wherever they come through, I say thank you. I say thank you every time, whether it's a dollar or, you know, a big check. I'm like, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I don't, I don't say thank you when I'm paying something. why? And I want to try this because I think it's an interesting approach. Why should we also say thank you when we're sending out money to others?

Because if you get a bill, that means somebody did something for you. For example, if it's an electricity bill, because of the electricity company, I can use the internet. I can use the lighting and microphone. and computer. And it's not only one-man job. There is this service person, there's this people who are at the power plants, and also there's somebody who just brought oil to Japan from Middle East. And there are, I don't know, thousands of people working for the electricity, and they make sure that it's in my house installed properly. So, there are millions of reasons to appreciate the electricity. And if it's $300 or $500 or maybe smaller or bigger, wow, you know, if I'm asked to install somebody's house with that electricity, I cannot do that with this money. So, thank you for just giving me the electricity. Thank you for giving me water. Thank you for serving me good meal at the restaurant. Thank you for giving me a ride like Uber. So you can thank the person who gave you the service and product. So the reason you have to pay, you're getting something in exchange. And usually takes more than one or two or could be a hundred people's work. And then you ask the money. thank them too. So that means that the money you give to the electricity company will be paid to all the people.

Wow.

So, like, I can. It's like a magic one. Even if it's a hundred dollars, this magic one can. I will start saying, thank you, thank you, thank you, guys. So, you know, it'll just thank. It's like a domino effect. Effect of thank you. So it's not just thanking your money. thanking the people who are connected with me. So we are all living on this planet together. So if we have this feeling, everybody's feeling this way, we all connect it. We all connected with the people in the Middle East, we all connect with the people in Russia, Africa, China, US. Ah, like it or not, we are all connected. So do we hate each other, or do we appreciate one another. So if we start doing more, there will be no exploitation of any kind. That's the economy I want to see in the coming years.

Yeah.

It's such a simple philosophy and practice that I think if we can all start to do it a little more with money and with everything, the people that we see are friends thanking them when they're coming, thanking them when they're leaving for their time, their attention, My girlfriend does this with our meals. Every time we eat together, she's really thankful. She puts a lot of time and attention thanking the people that just made this, the people that delivered the food to the restaurant, the people who harvested the food, you know, and all the people. And it's not something I did until about a year ago with food. And it's something that I've noticed, my digestive system relaxing, like me just taking in the moment and feeling a better sense of joy and happiness while eating food as opposed to just eating protein bars to get to the next thing. But really appreciating it. And I think when we appreciate things, which I'm hearing you say, when you appreciate money, when it comes, when it goes, when you appreciate food, when you appreciate your home, your family, your friends, those things will appreciate in value and they'll want to come to you more. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

Yes, exactly. And, Luis, you know what I've been talking about and you've been practicing it without knowing maybe, but I think you've been doing it as a natural person. You know, there are certain things like a natural business person, natural artist. So you're one of the natural people who just appreciate things. You know, that's why you're successful and people love you. And so if you want to be like if the viewers want to be like Lewis, you have to learn what he's doing. It's not just small habits, but I think the attitude toward life. Somehow, there are only two kinds. One kind is people who keep appreciating, the other one keep complaining about it. if you just, you know, it could be something very small, but after 20 years, your life will be very different. So I hope everybody will appreciate one another a little bit more from yesterday.

And what happens if we start complaining about money more, whether it be just kind of frustrated little comments here and there, you know, what happens to money in our life when we complain about it, as opposed to appreciating and thank it?

So if you start complaining about money, like 95% of us, money, just look at from a money's perspective. You know, if you've been complaining about it, oh, I don't want to go to him anymore. And then it's like a mutual feeling is mutual. Okay, you can complain about it. Okay, fine. I'm not going to come to you. So, and I think subconsciously, if you're complaining about money, you don't want it to be near you. So my favorite question to people is, if money was a person, who would it be? That means if money was a person, would it be a fun person? Always joking, always making, entertaining you? Or is somebody like a assassin, you know, who's gonna try to hurt you or scare you? or gangsters to try to intimidate you. So if you're complaining, money may not be such a fun, good person. So I think by complaining, you make money a villain, and you don't want that scary person to live in your house. So for happy, wealthy people, money is their best friend. They're so happy to welcome them at home. You know, when you open the door, I find you, Luis. Luis, thanks. Just come on here, just grab a beer. You treat your best friend like that.

Do you understand how much more valuable you are than money? And how much more... Remember, Buddhist monks, there's millionaire achievers that go to Buddhist monks all the time. The reverse never happens. There's no Buddhist monks going, How do I get the Luis?

I need to make millions. Yeah.

Why is that? Because the highest thing we have, the number one asset we have is our connection to ourself. Then most of us think it's money. So we make that the highest vibration, but it's not.

Inner peace.

It's inner peace. It's this moment and you have that available. The best things in life are free is a very cliche sentence, but it's true. And that's true, but also we only pay attention to what we invest in financially. So we overlook meditating here, but if we could pay to meditate, we'd all of a sudden do it. So we have to understand that what is free for real will bring in everything else that you want. I have a rule too with money that you might think is cool. This is a thing that I want to offer people. If you're trying to figure out how to create a space for money, I offer people to think about how they think about money. Think about how unconsciously you think about it. Like you're never enough, you're the root of all evil, whatever. Now picture that you're money on a date with you. And if you're on a date with a person who says you're never enough, you're the root of all evil, you'd never want to be there. Well, money doesn't want to be in the vibrations of judging it.

You reject that person. You reject that person, so you're rejecting money. Right. And you think that, yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to, how else do we say, I'm going to use you to get someone to like me. I'm going to, this is how money is seen. So how could money show up if that's how you see it? Because you wouldn't say, stay with someone on a date that said you're never enough, you're the root of all evil? It's like, okay. So how would you like to be seen on a date? You'd like to be seen as I love you no matter what, no matter if you're small or big, if you're off or on, if you're feeling like shit, I love you all the way. And if you can look at your debt or have $1 in the bank and go, I love you, now you're creating a vibrational space for it to show up. Because you're safe, because your focus isn't on money and how it needs to change, you're much better off because you're on how you're going to change. And when you start changing like we just did and looking at these things and not needing to overcome as much as loving it, now you're focused on the thing that actually creates the money. Remember, every dollar you've ever made came from you. So don't get excited about money, get excited about you.

Right?

Like if I went on a hike with you, we get lost in the woods, I round a corner, I'm not with you and we find a waterfall, I find it, you don't see it. I fill a cup up with water and I come back and I say to you, dude, a cup of water. What am I not showing you? I'm showing you the small thing.

Yeah, not the waterfall.

Not where it came from.

The source.

The source of the water. is the much more important thing. So none of us look at the source of where our money came from. We look at the money. So you're sitting here dwelling, not you, but people that we're dwelling on the cup of water.

Yeah. Not us being the source of creating more.

Every dollar you've ever made came from you. Get excited about you. Start the focus on what you are, not what money will give you.

And your energy is going to attract or repel more wealth. A lot of, you know, a mentor of mine said, I was at a salsa club learning how to salsa dance, terrified out of my mind, and I saw a guy who was amazing, who was a public speaker. He actually got me into public speaking. And he said, the world makes room for passionate people. I think money is attracted to passionate people as well. Because people are passionate about life, they bring in energy, bring a richness, a fullness, a richness, and they attract riches, whether it be through the community or the art they're creating or the business they're creating. Yes. And you're going to start to attract.

Especially in this time, because I know there's people watching this go, well, what do you say about all the greedy billionaires and blah, blah, blah? And what I say is that's the old consciousness.

Yeah.

That there, in fact, we see through it and it's starting to crumble. So the old way of doing things Selfish was a conscious shift because I believe in like the 50s everyone was just like a factory worker working for and then it was like this breakaway where an entrepreneurial boom happened. So taking your focus off of the old story and moving into what you are and learning how your thinking changes things was the highest consciousness we understood at the time. So at that time that created this old consciousness of your focus you know, changes it so you think positive, whatever, and that created it. And then we keep going and take a good thing too far, and then all of a sudden it's this billionaire thing. You can feel the most controlling mindsets crumbling. You can feel the suicides from the people that have made lots of money but see that it's not the answer. You can feel the people that are controlling other people. All the control as the control fell in you during this interview. as you said goodbye to the, the old story and kind of loved it. All control in the world is starting to fall, and the old structures aren't working. And what will work in the new century, in the new future, is the birth of this Consciousness, this Consciousness following your heart. You will not be able to make money just from massive achievement. It won't work.

It.

I'm telling you, it's going to be. We see through it, the consciousness sees through it, it's too small. When there's going to be a major influx of Martin Luther King's, Mr. Rogers, Oprah's, Wayne Dyer's, it's coming. Because we're so repressed that our hearts are going to springboard like the Renaissance and there's going to be, you know what I'm saying?

That's true. You mentioned this a couple of times and it reminded me of another mentor of mine, Chris Hawker, I was working as an intern for him for about six months when I was on my sister's couch, broke, no money. My dad had just gotten into an accident, a car accident that left him in a coma for three months and he was kind of my safety net. He was my financial stability where he would support me financially on things and he always said, you know, when you're done like living your dream and chasing your football career, whatever it is, you would only come work for me.

Wow.

He had an insurance company and life insurance. And I did the whole like insurance internship and did the testing and I almost failed three times on like getting my whatever it is like the series something, whatever the life insurance test that I had to pass so I could sell life insurance. I should have stopped after I failed the first time because I just knew it wasn't for me but I did it so I could have this backup plan.

Wow.

And so when my dad got in his accident, he had to sell his company to his partner because he was no longer able to work anymore. And I didn't have the financial stability like I had before. So I was sleeping on my sister's couch for a year and a half and I was working as an intern for about six months with someone that I was learning a lot from. And I remember at one point being like, man, I just really want some money. I feel like I've been working hard for a few years. I really could use some money. I'm not paying any rent money on my sister's. I feel like a loser because I can't contribute to her. I can't even get my own apartment. I'm just a loser. I was 24 at the time. I was like, Man, I'm just a loser of a guy. And he said something to me that you said. He said, Money comes to you when you're ready for it. And I was like, I feel really ready. I could really use the money right now.

And he goes, I didn't say desperate.

Exactly. We didn't say that. He was like, It's going to come to you when you're ready for it. And when it starts to come, it's going to make sense. I was like, Gosh, I just want it though. I just want it right now. And it's funny because maybe a year later, it started to come. And then it started to really come pretty quickly, like six months to a year after that. And I remember reflecting a year and a half prior, I was like, Man, I wasn't ready for this. Like, if this would have came two years prior, I would have blown it. I would have been scared of it. I wouldn't have been prepared for it. I would have been so freaked out by the numbers in my bank account, I would have sabotaged it probably. And so I really feel like it comes to you when you are prepared and ready, and sometimes it's not when you want it to be.

And when people say, How do you get prepared and ready?

That's the key. So how do you... Yeah.

How do you get prepared and ready? So for me, meditation gets me to understand that I'm the abundance, not money. And the second you understand that you're the abundance, and I mean understand it in your nervous system, I mean, don't just hear that sentence while you're still dying for it in your body. Like really be in the alignment of understanding that I'm the abundance. Wayne Dyer said beautifully, you know, there's a thing that everyone thought, you don't attract that you attract what you want. And Wayne Dyer said, you don't attract what you want. You attract what you are. What you're in vibration of. So if you want abundance, you need to get to a place where you understand your abundance and everything comes into your life the second you finally don't want it. It's not, don't want it like avoiding, like you don't need it.

-Not desperate, yes.

-The second you stop looking for it, you don't even remember you wanted it. That's because you have to access the fulfillment of the connection to yourself first, and then weirdly it's going to create, first of all, so many creative things, but you're gonna just start, first of all, you're so aware that you see things differently. Think of just that, when someone's in their head, They're walking down the street on their phone worrying. You could pass a $100 bill and not even see it. But when you're not in your head, you suddenly start to see all these dots connecting and everything meaning something different. And you see every moment as meaningful. Like last night I was waiting to go into a restaurant. One guy recognized me and said hi and we created a friendship because he's also a musician. That's cool. And then this four-year-old girl comes in and just sees me and starts dancing in front of me and showing me her toys. And I just had that moment was so much cooler than if I was looking through wondering, you know, what is going on in politics. And yeah, that was fulfilling that moment. And because that's fulfilling. And then on my way to the table, each step is fulfilling.

Yeah.

Now this is more fulfilling than anything I perceive could come to me to make me happy. Once you actually have practiced understanding that this moment is more important than anything you think you want. Now you are abundance, not money. And once you're abundance, it's impossible for it to not come. You're just going to start feeling safe to everybody. They're going to want to hire you. You're going to get bizarre offers. They'll just say, can you help me through something? Can you create this thing? You'll get an alignment with your creative gifts more than your fix it gifts to make money. You'll be in this higher thing. You'll be worth more, better jobs will start asking you. You'll start to actually feel heavy when million dollar offers are coming because you're like, Even that I don't want. And then it just, every time I say no to something, even if it's a huge thing, the bigger thing comes up. It's like life's like, How about this? How about this? And then the only question I ask.

Is, Does this expand me or contract me? Oh yeah, that's good. Before the interview continues, if you feel like you're not living your most authentic life, not leaning into your purpose, and not living the life that your future self would be extremely proud of, I've written a new book called the Greatness Mindset. and I think you're gonna love this. Through powerful stories, science-backed strategies, and step-by-step guidance, the Greatness Mindset will help you overcome all the different challenges in your life to design the life of your dreams and then turn it into your reality. Make sure to click the link below in the description to get your copy today. Okay, let's get back to this video.

Right, if it expands me, then I say yes, and I can feel that within two seconds. If I get to a pros and cons list, I'm already in contracting. Do you get what I'm saying?

Wow.

So, a way that I always give an example is if you've ever had lunch, you ever have lunch plans with someone and then you hope that they cancel.

Yeah.

Okay. That's your highest saying cancel.

Wow.

But you're used to living a notch below it so you wait for them to do it. So, that's what I'm talking about is the highest. What expands me? So it expands, you know what expands me a lot? Is saying no to a lot of things.

That's so powerful. Yeah.

Saying no, like, that's one of the.

Hardest things to learn how to do, but then it's one of the most freeing things when you're in that space.

Yeah.

Because there's times where you might think my highest is to go out and get laid or party, but it's actually like, really sometimes my highest is to go to bed early. Sometimes, really my highest, like, it's not our highest to do what we're doing. Is it your highest to go on Facebook a hundred times a day? No, but we still do it. So we live second highest and we miss out on the universe. So for me it expands me to be in alignment with the universe in that moment.

How important is developing skills and value? There's one thing of being abundance and being acceptance and all these things, but there's another thing of like, okay, well the person still doesn't have any skills that are valuable for someone else to give them money.

So, you know what I mean? Crazy answer here?

Yeah.

That's a belief that they need the skills. So, let me explain that. So, let's first of all talk about value. Okay?

Value is perceived, right?

Sure. And most people think value is what they're worth is based on what's in the bank, right? You could say that person's got a net worth of 20 million, whatever.

Cool.

That's nice. But there's some people that could lose that money and remake it again in 10 minutes. Like Tina Turner, her bank account got robbed. could just go on tour and fill it again. Then there's some people who inherited it and won the lottery. And if that went away, they're still not valuable at that moment at least. So what's the cause of value? Is it how much money you have or is it what's under it? And what you understand is under it. The factor of value is do you understand how valuable you are?

So how do you understand how valuable you are?

By creating the evidence of it, whether it's through leaps, whether it's so for me, when I started saying no to really tempting things, it would be really hard that moment. Like it'd be really hard. I remember when it was like no dating for six months and then like the Swedish bikini teams, like even us. And you're like, no. That's a joke. I didn't turn down the Swedish bikini team. But when you start saying no, it might be hell in that moment, but the next day you wake up and you're like, Now even I'm someone that can say no to that. Now I'm elevating myself above that temptation. So if I'm someone who can say no to that, you feel the force in that? So that's one thing. So there's a lot of skills I believe that we might need, but if they aren't your highest to do them, they're not a 10. And if they're not a 10, that affects all of what you do. My friend Glenn Morshower says, if you pee in part of the pool, you pee in all the pool. so my company, my job in my company is to do this, is to go on stage, is to coach people, is to be the space to co-write the book, to make the movie. I don't do the accounting, right? I have no idea how to do the accounting. I don't give about the accounting, right? I don't do the wardrobe, I don't do any of that. But there are people who it is their 10 to do that. So I delegate that because if I did this thing that's a three energetically, then I'm going to average and bring that onto the stage. My energy will be more depleted because I'm doing things in my life that are like that. Same thing. If you're out of alignment in whatever area, you're bringing that into all of it.

Yeah.

You get what I'm saying?

So true.

So, so for, so that's, so that's my answer to the skills thing because there's stuff that we're just natural at. And most of us disqualify what we're naturally good at because it hasn't been done before. They go, why would anyone want, oh, just stay with it. Because that thing you have is new. That thing you have is calling to you and it might not make sense now. But so many people I've worked with are like, well, one thing I'm passionate about is this, but I can't seem like, stop the second part. The yeah, but it's the old story. This thing you just said feels good to my body. Doesn't it feel, well, yeah, but no one will make money. Know, you're using the past story, literally what this is, what we are, what we are is the universe trying to change the planet through you. The universe is trying to change itself to a higher consciousness through you. That's what's happening when we receive on a higher level. It's like higher level ideas come through. So when you, when you meditate or whatever, you have an insight that's higher that insight. You go, it's exciting, but you can't make sense of it. You can't wrap your mind around it.

Follow it.

You're not supposed to wrap your mind around it. One thing people say is, I can't wrap my mind around it. You're not here to shove the infinite vastness of what you are into your teeny mind. You're here to acclimate your mind to the vastness of what you are. That's the difference. You know, there's so many quotes that people say, to insult people that live in their hearts, like this person went off the deep end. The implication is the shallow end is better. This person went over their head. Yeah, I'm using my whole body.

Right. Right. I'm not staying in my head.

Are you out of your mind? You better believe it. I'm in my heart.

Exactly. Right?

It's easier done than said. How about it's too big for your britches? You're too big for your. How about we change pants and adjust to me versus me. shoving myself in my old britches. What are we in the 20s? These old quotes that are bullshit. Every insulting quote, if you just reverse it, it's so funny how dumb it looks. Oh dude, you're out of your mind. You're right, you're in your head. It's like you're thinking small. You better be out of your mind. I love to go over my head so I have to use my body. Because just my small mind can't grasp these concepts we're talking about. But my body knows it. Like if you listen to this, you have to be listening from your body. You cannot listen from the small story.

That will make sense.

In fact, this is very offensive to the small story.

Yeah.

Right?

How dare he? I'm in this limitation and most of us instead of fighting for our freedom fight for our limitation.

Gosh.

They feel like they're in a safe space, right? It's safer being limited.

Totally, well it's ironically it's not. It's actually the most dangerous place.

But it seems safer.

Yeah, but it's more comfortable in that place. Yeah, but I mean what we call a safe space could be an abusive relationship. It could be, it's just you're used to it. So because you didn't die, you go that's safety. And everything that I've never seen before, I don't know that I won't die, so my body's scared of it. But the truth is usually what the body's got is way better.

The reality is people think millionaires are trust fund babies, that they inherited everything or they got lucky or hit the lottery. None of those are true. These are regular everyday men and women that have worked hard over time and they've been investing 25-28 years. And the way the book is structured, we've got the information from the study and we've got the information I want people to know about the stories in this book of people that were homeless and turned it around. People that had a million dollars or more in debt. and turned it around. And so, Louis, it really goes back to a lot of the stuff you talk about. It's the mindset, right? It's the mindset. And when you get the right people with the right information, results can happen.

Yes. What are we talking about these myths that millionaires, about millionaires, what are some of the myths that surround millionaires?

Well, we talk about six in the book, but I'll tell you, too, most people believe they inherited it all.

Right?

You see somebody with money, you think, oh, all mom or dad handed it to them. The truth is 79% of the millionaires that I talked to, first generation wealth builders, they didn't come from anything. These are people that focused and built money over time. Next myth, well, if you're a millionaire, you make high paying job, right? You got big income.

Yeah, yeah.

Nope. A third of the millionaires that we talked to never made six figures in a single working year. Really? Think about that for a second. Dual income. Never made six figures. So that blows that myth out of the water. A third of the millionaires that we talk to. Wow.

Right?

Now you think about six figures nowadays, it's more prevalent than it's ever been.

But for people, a lot of people with six-figure salaries have nothing in the bank. Thank you.

Because they just spend it all.

That's exactly right.

And they're using credit constantly to buy bigger things. That's right. No, no, you're absolutely right. So what happens is, is people tend to think that income is so important. And I'll tell you, no, it's not because I was one of those people. I remember I was making about 30 grand and I thought, all right, when I get serious, one year out of grad school making 30, 40 grand, I said, all right, when I make this amount, I'll start to get serious about my money. Well, you know that path, right? Well, when I make this amount, the next thing you know, lifestyle grows and you never end up taking control. But these are regular, everyday people that took control and were focused. It's amazing. So let me tell you this. Top three positions of the 10,000 millionaires we studied. Number one was engineer, which doesn't surprise you, right?

They're good at planning.

Yeah. Accountants. Organized. Yeah, accountants, same thing.

They were number two.

They're good at counting stuff. Number three was teachers. Teachers. They're not making that much. Exactly. And you think they're undervalued, underpaid. How are teachers doing this? Well, if you think about what it is, wealth building is a long-term view, right? Not a quick hit. And so these get rich quick schemes that we see on TV at late night, they get me riled up because they're preying on people. But these people were people that built wealth over time, investing in their 401K, their 403Bs. So anyway, the goal of this book is to let people know their American Dream's not dead. It's alive and it's well, and it's available to people.

We just have to take action. Absolutely. What are some of the things that they do on a daily basis, these millionaires? What are some of the steps to.

Take and how do they think differently than non-millionaires?

Great.

97% of the millionaires that we studied feel that they control their own destiny. Now think about that for a minute, because we have a victim mentality issue in America today, where we want to blame somebody for us not achieving something or getting in our way. So these millionaires think differently. 94% of them live on less than they make. So that means if they're making 100,000, they're living on 70 or 80, right?

You can't build wealth if you live on more than you make.

That's exactly right. And that's where the credit cards people start extending themselves and using credit cards. But 73% of these millionaires never carried.

A dime of credit card debt.

They never carry debt. Debt.

Yeah.

Right.

You might use a card, pay it off every month. Pay it off. And so the mindset, and I love to give people an economics and a PhD in economics. Interest that you pay is a penalty, right? If I use someone else's money, they charge me. Yes.

Right.

That's a penalty. Interest that I earn on my investments is a reward.

Right?

So why choose to penalize yourself? Don't use debt. Get yourself out of debt and invest and grow your money to reward yourself.

Yeah. Powerful. Now, how have you managed to, through all the stuff you've gone through, I'm assuming the last 15-20 years, you've gone through some challenges. You told me before off camera that you have a child who has special needs and was told that they live past a certain age. You're, you know, I'm assuming you've had challenges in relationships with business partnerships, intimate relationships, family.

Yeah.

The more wealth that I've accumulated and the attention that I've gained, there's more people with handouts.

Yes.

Expecting whatever it may be. How have you personally managed the emotional challenges that have come your way by not letting it affect your mindset around money? money so that you don't do things emotionally with your money. Right. Well, I mean, I've been there.

I don't know about you, but I made some mistakes. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, a mistake that you make one or two times, you can call it a mistake. But when you keep doing it over and over, it's not a mistake anymore. It's called a choice.

Yeah.

So for me, I'm very. I'm a man of faith, so obviously I'm rooted there, but I got good people around me. Yeah, I got good friends. people that have known me since my childhood, people that know me for who I am. So I'm not an author and speaker with these people. I'm just Chris. And so those people keep me rooted, right? Mama Hogan is no joke either. Okay? She'll keep me rooted. And so I think it's really important to understand what am I trying to accomplish? Like I don't want notoriety. I don't want to be famous. I want to be known that I help people think bigger, right? And so staying rooted in that, it helps me to be very, very clear on what I'm doing. People will come up and tell me, oh, Chris, you changed my life financially. And I go, oh, whoa, pump the brakes. I didn't change anything. I gave you some information. You did the changing. And so I think it's really important as we help people that we stay aware of who's doing what and our role.

Yeah, I think there's a story about Marcus Aurelius where he would go around the town and he had someone just walk with him beside him and say, you,'re just a man. I remember that. Every time someone would praise him, be like, you,'re just a man.

Can you imagine that? I mean, seriously, isn't that cool? How rooted does that keep you? You know, so, you know, John Wooden's got a quote. He says, you know, be careful of fame because fame is man-made. And if man giveth, man can take it away. Absolutely. You know? And so being aware of that, I think, is really, really important. What's the heart behind what I'm trying to do? Yeah.

And so, you know, if I travel.

And I go speak to 10,000 people, if I get one person whose eyes light up and they start thinking differently, then I've done my mission.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's the biggest challenge you've gone through in the last 15 years?

Oh.

Personally, emotionally, financially.

Biggest challenge was definitely the diagnosis of my youngest son, Case. At age two, they diagnosed him with this rare genetic disorder that could kill him. to take away his speech, take away the ability to walk, ability to eat and eventually end up on a feeding tube. There's the scariest moment of my life, sitting in that doctor's office holding that two-year-old boy, listening to that and went to some dark places over a few years. Well, you know what us men do when we have challenges. We don't, we're not smart, as smart as women.

Yeah.

Women, women go share.

Yeah.

Men don't share. We isolate. And then we internalize and then we stuff.

Right?

And so you can imagine working through something like that, isolating. It messes with you.

It does.

It messes with you.

It does.

And.

That was the biggest challenge I've walked through in the last 15 years.

How did you get through that initial few years of stuffing or...

I just stuffed. You know, I didn't do what I should have done. Isn't it amazing how hindsight S 2020. I wish I would have sought out those close friends and they would check on me. And what would I say? I'm good. I'm fine. I'm all right. And I wouldn't. And so that was a learning lesson for me that isolating is dangerous. That it's good to reach out and get help. It's good to have people you can be real with. And I came to this realization, we need four people in our lives. You need a mentor. this is somebody that's having some success and can guide you. You need a coach who will push you, right? You and I know word coach means something to us, right? Because they will get on you, they will drive you, because what's the goal to try to help you to get better? But you need two more. You need a cheerleader. You need somebody that believes in you. They're not worried about what you achieve. They believe in you. And that's important to have. And then you need a friend. You need somebody you can be real with that you can just say what's on your head. They're not holding it against you. you can be honest. So if you get a mentor, a coach, a cheerleader and a friend in your side, that's awesome. But I want to encourage people to do this. Not only find those four, you need to be one of those four for someone else.

You need to be four of those things. That we're saying. That's right. You need to be a mentor. Yes. You need to be a coach.

Yes. A friend. Yes. And a cheerleader. Absolutely. For someone else. For somebody. And when you do that, now what it does is it takes the focus off of you. You know, one of the things you and I have in common is I firmly believe that if you've ever walked through a mess in your life, that it qualifies you to be a messenger. It does. You know, when you've gone through some stuff, you learn.

That's right.

And if you're willing enough to be transparent to share it, and you're not worried about people's opinions, the impact you can have on someone else to give them the courage to try or to reach out and talk, that's a big deal, man. This life is hard. It's not meant to be done alone.

Yeah. Wow. Who is your mentor, coach, cheerleader and friend?

Oh yeah. Well, mentor is obviously Dave Ramsey. This man has been an incredible mentor for me, just guiding me and then over the 13 years of being with him. My coaches, man, I've got a lot. I've got some people with Walking With Me spiritually. I've got people that are walking with me from a business perspective. I'm constantly reaching out to learn. I'm like a sponge. all the time. That's big cheerleader. Mama Hogan. I mean, that's my number one fan right there. She's behind me. I've got all kinds of family, uncles and everybody. They're just for me. Friends, I got amazing friends. Childhood friends, people at the office, people that care about me as an individual, not just what I do. They know me. Not the book. No, no, no. They'll call me out. Yeah, yeah. You know, they'll call me out. I got a call from a buddy the other day. He goes, Dude, how's the road? He goes, you,'re keeping your head clear, you stay in focus. And he said, Don't believe the hype. And so what he's telling me is, Hey, keep helping people. Keep your heart in the right place. And so it's good to have those accountability people to check in with you. It just keeps your heart in the right place.

What would you say is your biggest insecurity, fear, or challenge right now? You've been through different phases of life and as you grow and my expand, I'm assuming there's new challenges that you overcome and then new stuff that maybe you haven't overcome yet. Right.

I think my biggest fear is, am I doing everything that I could be doing?

Right.

I've got three boys. They're hilarious. 14, 13, and 11. And these boys are my legacy. I grew up with a single mom, so my dad wasn't around. He came around with birthdays and holidays or whatever, but it wasn't there. So when I had started getting ready to have kids, my goal was to try to be the dad that I wish I would have had. And so that puts some weight on you, right? But I was hanging out with my boys and we were somewhere and I saw a poster of a little boy at a bus stop with a duffel bag, right? And he was just sitting at a bus stop and I can't even remember what was under it. But I saw that little boy and I thought of me.

Right?

Like waiting. And then I realized, man oh man, in my own life, like, you know, somebody somewhere is waiting on me to become what I was destined to be. And so if they're waiting on me to become who I was supposed to be to impact their life, how long am I gonna make them wait? You know? And so what that means is, is that I need to do everything I'm capable of doing and some things some people say I can't do, just to be able to help that person somewhere that's waiting to hear an encouraging word, or something to impact their life. So that's something that drives me every day. Yeah. What is it that people say you can't do?

Oh man, I've had people tell me I couldn't write a book.

You know, my first book came out 2016, Retire Inspired. I told a good buddy of mine, I told him I was working on a book. He goes, Man, you can't write a book. Really? Yeah, and we were in church, right? I wanted to punch him in the eye. You can't hit people. You can't hit people in church. not a feeling that's a sin, right? Somewhere. But then later on, when I finished the book and at the book signing in town, he was one of the people there. And I realized something. What initially he said was that I can't write a book. What he was saying was, it's not something he's ever thought about doing, and it's not something that he could do.

It's his belief.

That was him, right? And so for me, that was a grow up moment. He wasn't putting a limitation on me, he was speaking his own limitation, right? And so I just remember that and I go, oh no, limitations. And so that's where I said, I'll accept compliments from anyone, but I ain't accepting limitations from nobody, right? And that's anywhere in my life. You don't get to put a limit on me. That's what I love about, you know, Dr. Martin Luther King. The fact that he had the courage to have a dream, but the courage to share it, you know, that's something I want us all to have that mindset of. Stop thinking about what people say you can't do, you know? I mean, opinions are like yesterday's, everybody's got them. what are you deciding in your heart to go do? Now start to go do that.

Yeah. Wow, man. So what do you do now in terms of your own wealth? How are you, you've probably learned a lot again over the last 20 years from the banking world, like selling services, you learned a certain amount to get to one level, and then you realize like, oh, some things work well and some things don't work well. And then you go back to another.

Level of your wealth.

And then you realize, okay, Now I've got more wealth, some things work and some things don't work. You keep, I'm assuming, expanding. Yes. I'm building my wealth.

I realize, wow, there's always something to learn.

That's exactly right. There's always stuff. Now there's taxes. Now I've got to learn how to invest my money. Now I've got to learn what's the.

Right places and all those things. So what's the phase you're at right now and what are the biggest lessons you've learned in the last couple of years? Okay. So the phase I'm at right now is obviously continued growth, right? Because with inflation, costs are going to go up. so you can't hide money in a cookie jar and just put it in the ground. It's got to grow. So with me, I'm always looking, but I'm understanding risk more. You know, these latest crazes that come out, I just cringe. You know, cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, right? Now, there's this thing out there, it's not even real, that's been given a value by somebody that's not regulated.

Right?

And so when you look at this, you would laugh at that. But we've had people seriously pursue that. Day trading years ago was a big thing. So for me, what I'm doing is I'm trying to be smart with what I do, but I need to be crystal clear on what not to do, meaning I don't want to take unnecessary risks.

What are the things that are non-negotiable you won't do?

I'm not doing debt. I am not doing debt. So what's that mean for people? That means I don't borrow money. I'm not looking to borrow money to leverage borrowing money from my home, to put invest, no leverage schemes. I don't borrow at all. And I'm crystal clear on what it is I'm doing, meaning the longer range view. Louis, what I started doing years ago was I started making two-year decisions. I wanted to make a decision today that I look back on in two years, and I'm glad that I made it. Now imagine some of those decisions.

Oh, gosh.

Well, I mean, staying allergic to debt. I mean, I have people come to me all the time with business opportunities. They're like, Hogan, listen, if you put in this amount, we're gonna do boom, boom, boom, boom. And in looking at that, I have to be smart enough to say no. If it looks too good to be true, we know it is. But I think it's more about making the, I think I've made more money by not doing things than I would have by going down a path.

And did you invest in certain things early on where you're like, yeah, that seems like fun and interesting. And you're like, I never got my money.

Oh, yeah, no, I learned my lesson.

I think eight startups over the last eight years. Guess how much money I've made. How much, Louis?

Zero.

How much did you invest?

Give me a ballpark.

Probably. Probably about 250 to 300 grand.

Okay. Okay. That's not as bad.

I wasn't going, like, big. Right. I was like, let me just dabble. Yes. Let me just get in the game, play with it.

It's okay if I lose it. I met the mindset. Like, I'm gambling. Right. Well, and that's exactly what I did. But here's. And you know what? you paid a dollar amount, but you learned some stuff. I learned some stuff. You know what you're not going to do ever again. Exactly. And see, to me, that's valuable. Yeah. Because obviously, as things grow and profiles grow, the risks grow, you know, the bigger things come. So I just want people to take, that's why my website is Chris Hogan 360.com. I want people to take a 360 degree look at a lot of the things they're doing, their business, their life. Like, look at this and make decisions about what like, I'm crystal clear on what I want, but I'm absolutely certain of what I don't want. I don't want failure. I don't want negative attitudes around me. Right. I want to make sure that I'm impacting people.

Yeah. That's powerful. What are the things that you, so you don't borrow debt? Nope. And so what's that mean? It says you can't start something unless you use sweat equity, unless you have the money. Pay cash. Pay cash.

Pay cash. So that means real estate.

Right?

If there's a property that I want to buy.

I don't go to a bank.

You don't get a loan.

Nope.

I save up and pay. Now, what does that make me do? It makes me have patience. That means I'm not letting... I get everything you want now. That's exact. Well, and that's... you have kids yet?

No kids.

Okay. Oh, you got freedom and money.

Okay.

All right. I'm sending one of my boys to live with you. Exactly. But kids want what they want and they want it now. Yes, you're right. Give it to me now.

Right.

And so if as adults, we do that. That's dangerous. That's why the average credit card debt right now is 15 grand. People have 45,000 in student loans, car payments of $600 or more a month. So for me, I look at debt as a thing that limits me from doing what I want to do, not getting me there faster. Now I'm old school and I did my stupid. I did single stocks. I did all those things and I lost a lot of money. But looking at it, what I was trying to do was to get rich. instead of building wealth, right? And there's a difference. Between getting rich and building wealth. That's right. What's the difference between getting rich and getting wealthy? Getting rich is where you want to quickly get money, right? And these are the lottery winners that I've talked to. They got money in really, really quick, but they also lost it really, really quick. So building wealth is a long-term view, meaning you can have some fun and enjoy some stuff, but don't get so focused in the enjoying that you forget to plan for the future.

Right.

What's the YOLO? That's the hipster phrase. You only live once. Well, in my mind, if you have that mentality and you believe that, you've broke for a long time. That's right, because you're doing everything for today. So anyway, I want people to have just awareness. Like you can have some fun today, but let's also make sure we're doing some things using the 401ks, using SIPS if you're self-employed, put some money aside so we can start to grow for you. Talking to these millionaires, the number one thing they said that to build wealth was employer sponsored retirement plans, 401ks, 403Bs and Roth IRAs. So people out there that are self-employed, the SEPPs, solo 401ks, you've got ways to be able to invest.

What is your thoughts around the identity of money and the psychology of how it plays in our lives? Because a lot of people want to make more, they want to attract more, but they're just struggling with just the concept of it.

Well, I think we've been programmed quite a bit with our relationship with money. We have a relationship with everything known in our environment. You have a relationship, a neurological network in your brain for your parents, for your cell phone, for your computer, where you live, where you've lived in the past, what you're going to do tomorrow. For the most part, the brain is a reflection of everything that we know, right? Along with that is our relationship with money. And I feel like I have a really good relationship with money because I work on having a really good relationship with everything in my life.

Did you always have a good relationship with money?

I think so. I think so. I've never really lived in lack. That just wasn't part of it. Even when I went to college and I had to take out student loans and stuff, I always figured out a way to always be a little bit ahead of the curve. And so, let's back up and just look at how people form beliefs because most beliefs are created from past experiences, right? So children when they're in their early ages, their brain waves are very slow. Like their brain waves are in alpha when they're like seven to 12, they're in theta when they're like two to six years old and they're in delta like when they're newborn to two years old. And so these brainwave states are states that were really suggestible to information.

So when we hear information, we believe it.

And we accept it, we believe it, we surrender to it as if it's the truth without analyzing it because there's no analytical facilities yet. The analytical mind starts around 12 or so, 7 to 12, and that analytical mind is actually what creates a barrier between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind.

So before 12, roughly, what we see, how we model our parents' behavior, what.

We'Re being programmed subconsciously. That's really, really important because if you heard money is the root of all evil, money is bad, only certain people are allowed to make money, you have to work hard to make money, this is how you got to do it. that becomes the foundations subconsciously. Let's like recording an audio file. You just keep recording that audio file. It becomes a subconscious program, right? So a lot of people have a relationship with money based on either what they've been told or what they've experienced in their outer environment, right? So then we gain information from our environment and the stronger the emotion we feel from experiences in our lives. The more altered we feel inside of us, the more the brain freezes a frame and takes a picture. And that snapshot is called the memory. Based on an emotion. Based on an emotion. The emotion alters our internal state. So you're going along as Louis feeling really good, and all of a sudden you have this trauma, you have this crisis, you have this shock, and all of a sudden you have this dramatic change in your internal state and your senses get heightened, and then you freeze the frame and you associate this internal state with whatever it is that's causing it, right? And that's how we create long-term memories.

Are painful memories more powerful or beautiful memories more powerful?

They're both equal. They're both equal. But the problem is I think most people experience more than negative emotions. Those negative emotions really are derived from the hormones of stress. The alarm system, the emergency system, creates an arousal inwardly. That arousal is saying there's something dangerous in your outer environment. and it could be a person, a circumstance, an accident or whatever. And that change in emotional state causes you to remember the event. You gotta pay attention. You gotta stay really and narrow your focus on the cause. So think about people who have relationships with money from the past. All beliefs are based on past experiences. So you have an experience where you lose money, you have an experience where money is taken away from you, you have an experience where you don't have enough, you're living in a place where there's not enough money or a family that's not enough money, then the emotion that most people are living by on a moment to moment basis is lack. Like I'm in lack of having something that I want. Now there's nothing wrong with that because the experience changes your emotional state, you freeze the frame, you take a picture. The problem is that's hardware. So we think neurologically within the circuits of that past experience and we feel chemically within the boundaries of that emotion, which would say, for example, be lack, right? So now the person says... Before you.

Go on to the next thing, what happens to the body and the mind when it is in an environment of lack? Mentally or physically, I'm in lack. What is the body of the mind saying?

Yes, so the body is saying, I'm waiting. for some external event to occur. I win the lottery. I marry the right guy. Whatever it is that you're waiting for that event to occur, that experience produces an emotion. So the emotion then takes away the lack. And so when we play the game in three-dimensional reality, the creation game in three-dimensional reality, We experience separation from everyone or everything because our senses fool us into the illusion, the hallucination of separation. I'm here and you're there. I'm here and the door is over there. So I'm aware that I'm here at one point of consciousness and the door is over there, another point of consciousness. Okay, so in order for me to get from here to the door, I gotta move my body and do something through space. I gotta do something and everything in this three-dimensional reality is going to take time and energy. So, okay, so then here's Lewis right here. And then he says, okay, I want this experience in my future and your brain automatically predicts and projects how far in the future you think it's going to take.

Maybe it's a year, five years, 10 years.

30 years.

Oh my gosh. Right?

Because that's what it's going to take to pay off that house, right? So now, one point of consciousness, I'm here, the other point of consciousness is where I'm placing my dreams. so I mean separate from that experience. So then how do I get to that experience? In three-dimensional reality, you got to get up and you got to do something. You got to go to work, you got to drive to work, it takes energy, you got to fill your car with gas, you got to eat food, you got to work, you know, all this stuff, you got to sleep, you got to recover if there's stress. And now people are, in a sense, waiting for the experience that's 10 years down the road or 30 years down the road to happen. to take away the lack of them not having it. And unfortunately, many times when the experience finally occurs, they can't enjoy it because they're too exhausted, right? So then, so you play the game, you go to school, you study really hard, or you study on your own, you develop some skills, you make the right choices, you start saving money, you start learning from your mistakes, and then the game is how many things can you accumulate? And that accumulation then you associate with being wealthy or being abundant or being successful, right? And some people get really good at it, right? You can get really good at that. But for the most part though, when we create from three-dimensional reality, we're creating from lack and separation. In other words, you're driving down the road and see someone driving a car that all of a sudden you realize that you don't have. The moment you become aware that that person has that car and you don't have it, you're in lack. of having it, right? So what the brain naturally does is it naturally creates you driving that car and you have an image of yourself driving that car and you start identifying, wow, that would be a greater experience for me to have. The problem is the distance between the thought of what you want and the experience of actually happening for most people is the concept called time, right? Between cause and effect, right? So some people develop the ability to manage themselves and manage their life, they've got certain skills and they can pay for it and they can get it very quickly. The problem is when the novelty of that experience wears off, you know, the car and they're no longer identifying with that and the feeling of emptiness and.

Lack comes back, they need to find something else.

They gotta go find something else. And so there's this game that goes on where you never have enough, right? And that's the lack game, right? So then if you think about people having the things they want in their life, When they create from lack and separation, it's the experience in three-dimensional reality that produces the emotion. And the emotion is saying, let's feel that experience this thing that you've been in lack and separation from and that emotion then takes away the lack or separation. But you've worked really hard to get it. Okay, nothing wrong with that. Is there another way to do it?

Yes.

Okay, so the person who's living in lack is waiting for their wealth to feel abundant. They're waiting for their success to feel empowered. They're waiting for their healing to feel gratitude. They're waiting for their new relationship to feel love. They're waiting for their mystical experience to feel awe. That's the Newtonian model of reality of cause and effect, waiting for that event to happen to take away this separation or lack. Nothing wrong with it. It's the way most people create. but what we've discovered is actually something else. The moment you feel gratitude, your healing begins. The moment you feel worthy and abundant, you're generating wealth. The moment you're empowered, you are moving towards your success. The moment you're in love with yourself and you're in love with life, you'll create an equal. The moment you are in awe of life, you're going to have a mystical experience. And so, that's causing an effect, right? So then if you can teach people then how to create instead of from lack or separation, but create from wholeness and create from what we call the quantum field instead of three-dimensional reality.

What's the difference?

Okay, so the way you, first of all, it takes knowledge, okay? The quantum field is an invisible field of energy that exists beyond our senses. You can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't taste it, you can't hear it, you can't feel it. It exists beyond our experience of three-dimensional reality.

Would this be in our mind's consciousness or would this be in a different space?

Okay, let's look at that. So the answer to the question is how much of your waking day do you put your attention on matter, on the material world, and how much of your waking day are you aware of energy and frequency. For most people, they're unaware of the quantum field. And if you're unaware of it, it doesn't exist for you. Just like you have a nose, but if you're unaware of it, it doesn't exist for you. The moment you become aware of it, it exists. Well, the quantum field, you can ask, you can study all kinds of science, and they'll tell you there is this invisible field of frequency and energy that exists beyond the senses that tend to connect everything physical and material. In fact, everything physical and material is connected to this field. Okay? So how do you get there?

Right?

How do you get there? How do you get there? So we discovered that when you take all of your attention off your body and you are not paying attention to your emotions, your drives, your habits, if you could take all of your attention off of every element in your environment, your cell phone, your tablet, your computer, your car, your whatever it is, your bed. Take your attention away from everything, every place that you live, where you sleep, where you work, and you're not thinking about time. You're not thinking about your schedule, where you need to be, or what happened yesterday. You can relax into the present moment. There tends to be a dramatic change in the way the brain functions when people do this properly. We call it getting beyond yourself, but in a sense, you're dissociating from your three-dimensional reality. Why? Because if you're thinking about anything in your three-dimensional reality, that's where your attention is and that's where your energy is. Okay? So we kind of figured out this formula when people really become nobody, no one, no thing, nowhere, no time. We are pretty much all of a sudden outside the constraints of the Newtonian world of Gotta do something to get an outcome. And if you can teach people how to linger there without a name, without a face, without a profession, without a family, without a culture, without a past, without a disease, you teach them how to be in this place we call the unknown, right? And you teach them that from that place, that invisible field, is where everything material comes from. And if they could create coherence in their brain, you need a strong signal in the brain, the more coherent the brain, the more stronger the signal.

What do you mean a strong signal?

Okay, let's see how I could say this. When most people, we look at brains in real time and we're looking at people's, how their mind is working. When you're under stress, okay, stress is created by not being able to predict something that's going to happen in your life, the perception that something's going to get worse or you can't control something. Right? So when that occurs, we switch on that primitive nervous system called the fight or flight nervous system and the brain goes into this very alarmed state called high beta. That means pay attention to the outer world. There's danger out there. So it's, but if it's not a predator and it's traffic or your co-worker or your ex, this is where it gets to be a problem because it becomes very maladaptive, right? So when we're in that state and the brain is that in that aroused state, we try to control and predict everything. So every person, every object, everything, every place, even your body, has a neurological network in your brain, right? So as the arousal happens, we start shifting our attention to all these elements, and like a lightning storm in the clouds, the brain starts firing very, very incoherently. And when the brain's incoherent, we're incoherent.

That's not a strong signal.

That's not, it's a static on the wire. disconnection, there is no signal. So when we're in that state, we're always really looking for the worst case scenario of what's going to happen because if you prepare for the worst, anything less happens a better chance of survival. So in this kind of aroused state, as we shift our attention to each one of these elements that are known in our environment, the brain starts compartmentalizing and firing out of order. that is what creates what's called autonomic dysregulation. That's causes the brain and body to get really out of balance, right? So in that state, we're over focused. You know, when you're stressed, you're over focused on something, you can't stop thinking about it. Our research shows that when you do that, you actually make your brain worse because you're analyzing your problems within some disturbing emotion and that emotion is driving you further out of balance. You're actually knocking your brain and body out of balance by thought alone and you're driving it into these more roused states, right?

For someone that's been living like that for decades, that's their base state. How do they even realize how to get out of that?

They don't usually it takes crisis, right? It takes trauma.

Extreme breakdown. A loss of death.

A breakup, a divorce, a near bankruptcy, whatever it is. a disease, a diagnosis, whatever, something where you just can't go on business as usual. Now it's time to really start looking.

They have to wake up. Yeah.

So let's get back to the concept of abundance here.

We need a strong signal in this field. Right.

So then if you can teach people to do the exact opposite, go from putting all of their attention on everything physical and material in the world of separation, and instead of narrowing their focus on something material, ask them to broaden their focus and put it on nothing. I know that sounds kind of crazy, but when you put your attention on space and you divert your attention, the act of sensing without thinking actually starts to slow the brain waves down. Not only slow it down, but all of a sudden cause the brain to start re reintegrating. starts to synchronize, right? And so you see different compartments of the brain that we're firing out of order start to resonate. They start to communicate. They're all of a sudden synchronizing and what sinks in the brain kind of links in the brain. So when a person has their whole entire brain firing in rhythm, that's a very strong signal that you can send out into the field.

So when that signal is strong in that position, what can you create from that okay, so.

But that's only one element.

Okay.

So then the clear intention tends to be a very important element that we have to have to get down. And the more coherent the brain, the more clear the signal for that intention. So with intention and attention, we could actually make thought more real than anything else. Now, what is that? You're saying what would it be like to be wealthy? What would it be like to be abundant? What would it be like to have all my needs met? What would it be like to have more than what would I do if I had everything I ever wanted? The answer always is the same, you start giving stuff away. Because if an abundant person is truly abundant, why would they hold on? They would say, I'm not in lack, there's more for everybody. Turns out though that the signal sent out isn't enough. You've got to have to draw the experience back to you.

Send the signal out to a coherent brain. Financial freedom, abundance, all these different things.

Right, whatever that is for you, whatever.

That is for you. Putting that out there with the intention and the attention, and then how do you draw it?

So, so, no, in the physical world, you gotta go get it. You gotta do something, this is the plane of demonstration, you gotta go get it, and when you're in lack until it occurs, right?

But I'm hearing you say there's a way to not chase but attract.

Alright, so if you're creating from the field instead of from matter, right, there's a very strong possibility that you'll shorten the distance between the thought of what you want. and the experience of having it. And when there's a vibrational match between your energy and that future that you want to experience, now if you're creating from the field, you actually don't go anywhere to get it. You actually draw it to you. So here comes the synchronicities, the serendipities, the coincidences, the opportunities, and they come out of nowhere. And you say, I don't understand. I didn't do anything. changed your energy. And so then the other element is a coherent heart, right? And the heart has a magnetic signature. And the magnetic signature is what draws reality to us, right? So you combine that clear intention with a coherent brain. Now here's the key. This takes practice because the person who's living in lack is usually unworthy, is usually insecure, is usually in their past, they're usually frustrated, they're usually impatient, they're usually resentful because nothing's changing out there because it's taking too long. Everything takes a lot of time when do matter to matter, right? So then if you teach them, okay, we know all about that. We know the story behind that. We know what your parents told you about money, all that other, don't worry don't worry about it. But now let's do something that would be really cool. Let's write down the feelings of how you would feel if that future happened and you're going to have to feel that feeling before it occurs. So now, okay, what does an abundant person feel? Pretty much free.

A lot of peace. Peace, excited, joyful.

In love with life. grateful to be alive, abundant. Okay, now let's practice feeling those. Turns out when you're feeling those other emotions like resentment and impatience and frustration, you're stepping on the gas pedal, you're turning on the sympathetic nervous system and you're stepping on the brake at the same time. Which is angry, you're frustrated, but the fight or flight nervous system says run, fight or hide and you're sitting in a Zoom meeting and and your neck is pulsating is because the heart is beating against the closed system, right? You're not using it in an adaptive way. So the heart starts firing out of order. It starts firing incoherently and incoherent waves cancel each other out. It's called destructive interference and then we stop trusting our future. Energy leaves the heart.

When it comes to building wealth, once you look at your network, how are you building your number one business? you know, a lot. And I tell this to everyone. Mind your business.

How so?

Because your mind is a business. So if you mind your business, your mind is a business. How are you growing your number one business?

Your mind.

Exactly. You know, what podcast are you listening to? What books are you reading? Are you watching less TV or are. What are you putting into here? Because what we put into here comes out. and so wealth building is really not just about the physical things as far as the money, but it's like, what are you learning? What are you putting inside of your mind that can then produce true wealth and keep wealth? What wisdom and knowledge are you obtaining? So that way, when you do make the moves, you can also sustain it.

Yeah.

So you'll learn that about me. It's like everything about wealth building has little to do with actual green, with actually paper. It's about your core. It's about your mindset. It's about your network. Who are you surrounding yourself with? How are you all minding your business, growing your asset, your number one asset, which is your mind? Then from there, we can talk about it. You know, how do we number one avoid debt? It goes back to, you know, Dave Ramsey's Baby Steps. Avoid debt. Get a fully funded emergency fund. Start investing. Start thinking about your kids, you know? And then from there, oh man, life is gravy. You can really enjoy and do anything that you want. whether that's some people are doing it with cryptocurrency, some people are doing it with day trading, that's fine. Whatever is good for you. Now, I don't do single stocks. I'm not a fan of single stocks. I'm just a fan of real estates, some good growth stock mutual funds, and just really focusing on building my business.

Right. What would you say are the habits wealthy people do that broke people don't do?

Oh, man. That's a good one. When I think of all the wealthy people in my circle, habits is they have a daily routine. And when I say a daily routine, they have a Monday through Friday routine. They work out, they.

Read.

One of the things that I've learned over the last, actually over the last few years is when I wake up in the morning, I do my personal Devo every single morning. After that, after I read a Devo, I actually read and study within my particular field. So anything around money, anything around relationships, I'm studying in that.

Okay?

And then from there, I go to the gym. I see a lot of wealthy people are very active and they take care of their body from there. Oh, it's another one, man. They value family.

Family.

They really value the presence of family.

Why is that?

Because I think they understand you can sit here and make all this money, but who are you making it for? Who are you impacting? Why are you impacting the world when your home is all jacked up? And so what I've learned from wealthy people is I want to make sure my home is taken care of before I take care of the world. and now again, that's not all wealthy people. That's just the wealthy people that's in my circle. They make sure that the wife, the husband, the kids, they are good, that they're in a healthy place before they go serve the world with their particular business.

Right.

And I love that. I mean, I was with one wealthy guy just the other day. He probably does about a hundred million dollars a year, and he gave me an hour of his time for lunch. he got a text message from his wife. He ended it 10 minutes early because his wife said, hey, I can't pick up the kids. He was like, I get it. It's no problem.

Hey, I gotta go.

And I was like, wow. I was really looking forward to that last 10 minutes.

Right.

And he was like, sorry, man. You know, wife can't get the kids. I need to go get them, man. You'll learn that one day, right?

You made the priority. You understand it?

Yeah.

You know, your family needs to be priority. And I believe when you can be a steward of the little of your family, then you can be trusted with more. You can be trusted with 100 employees. You can be trusted with impacting the community. But if you can't take care of home, you can't be trusted with more. And that's one thing. I'm, I'm, I got a little dog, man. So it was like for me, I take good care of her. I take good care of me. I take care of my home. So that way, you know, I can get the wife, I can get the kids, and I can and start practicing taking care of home first.

Yes.

Then serving people on the outside. Because I grew up seeing pastors and seeing different people focus on the churches and focus on communities and coming home to a jacked up home. And so I'm seeing wealthy people now, they've created a healthy habit to where now they're focused on family. And families now are building wealth. Husband and wives are working together. Now kids want to work in the family business. because now pops and mom took care of home. Another habit that I'm seeing here that wealthy people doing is they know where their money is going. They have a vision for their money. So, it's not just a budget but they have a clear vision of, okay, this is where we want to go. And what I've learned is that not only do they have a clear vision but they make sure everyone that is connected with them, whether they are dating, whether they are married, Whether they have kids that everyone is aligned with that vision. So, okay, if our goal is to make $100 million, cool, great. They have the vision. Here is our goal that gets us to that vision. Here are the daily habits that get us to this goal. So, they have a clear vision followed by clear goals, followed by clear daily habits that gets them to the ultimate vision. And I'm sitting there amazed one day I sat in a room and just really watched him put his vision up on the wall and just really backtracked it to today. His vision was five years down the road. He updates his vision every three months and he holds himself accountable. Him and his team hold himself accountable to okay, are we getting closer?

No.

Are we making the right decisions? Are we making the right moves to get there? And that's very, very important. That's something that I'm putting in place now myself.

That's cool. The money vision and everyone's aligned to the money vision.

Absolutely.

That's great, man.

And when you go back to it here's my thing with vision. When you have a clear vision it's going to... That's your way of saying yes or no. So, it's like if someone comes to you and says hey, I want to do this your vision says yes or no, not you. If I meet a young lady and she says hey, I want to do XYZ okay, cool does that get me closer to my vision or does that take me away from my vision? Yes, So, yes or no. If my vision is I want to do this in the next five years, I'm going to apply for a job and that job is saying, Hey, you got to do this. Cool, great. This is aligned with my personal vision. And I think 20s and 30 year olds need to learn how to write a vision for their life.

That's cool.

Because if they have a clear vision for their life, it helps them stay focused and move forward and it gives them an easy, Hey, you're a great person or this is a great opportunity, it's just not my opportunity. You're a great person, you're just not a good fit for where I want to go. You're not aligned with where I'm going. So you gotta have a vision.

What's the best way to write a vision and come up with a vision?

And that's something that I'm actually working on now. I'm coming out with this next February and the very first thing is you really gotta sit down and just ask yourself a lot of questions. What are you passionate about? What do you think your purpose is? um, and then it's like when you think, what are you passionate about? What do you think your purpose is? You know, where, where do you see yourself going? You know, my vision is to help millennials and minorities avoid debt and to build wealth. I had to ask myself why. It's because I was a millennial and a minority broke, disgusted, living paycheck to paycheck. So when I started asking myself those kind of, those questions, I really got down to my deep why. and one of my mentors, Dr. Darius Daniels said, if your why doesn't make you cry, then the price of commitment will make you cry. And so when you really want to understand your vision, you really have to ask yourself, okay, where are you going? And then why do you want to go there? And when you ask yourself that at least five times, you're going to really be able to develop a clear vision of, I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to do this by this date because of these particular reasons. It's hard to follow the step when.

You feel like you're, you're living off credit cards and in debt and you're not making any money. You feel like this sense of helplessness, really. And I know I've listened to a lot of your shows with people where they feel helpless, and it takes that initial momentum to kind of kick-start it and see little savings here and there and then pay off one thing here and there. But I tell you, once I finished those, I guess really, the, the first five to six steps, I don't have a home still. I still rent for personal reasons, but the first five to six steps and then building wealth and giving and giving, once I got through these, it's just like, man, you feel so much more bulletproof. I feel so much more bulletproof now. After 10 years of building into this recession, I feel safe. I feel fine. I feel protected. And it gives me so much more peace of mind since I did follow your steps. So I would first want to acknowledge you for that. for creating something so simple for us and providing this three hours a day for everybody. I think it's amazing. You sound like a preacher and a motivational speaker to me in the last few minutes just speaking life and hope into us. So I appreciate that. What are you telling the people right now who are saying, you know what, I didn't follow your advice. I didn't do what I should have done. I still love off credit cards. I overbought, paid for my house, and I've got this expensive lifestyle and credit cards that I know I'm wrong. I made a mistake. I own it and now I'm screwed. And I just got 50% cut of my work. I might lose my job in two months. I got all these bills. Like how do you even respond to something like that?

Well, I certainly don't say I told you so. That's not the message because I've been there. I've done stupid stuff too and that's not helpful. and it doesn't bring any healing. The thing is this, we all get wake up calls. We get wake up calls in our relationships, our spiritual walk, our leadership styles. We get wake up calls in our finances. And some people, the phone's ringing off the hook right now. They're getting wake up calls on a bunch of things. They're at home with their family and they're starting to realize I was disconnected from my family. I haven't been plugged in, they got a wake up call on their relationships at home. They've gotten a wake up call on, you know, I don't have any savings and I've got, I'm deeply in debt. This isn't working. And so the, you know, the cool thing is when you get the call, then you have to make the choice. Are you going to answer the phone? If you pick the phone up, that means baby, it's time to change. And you can look back and you might be, 27 years old right now watching this and you're screwed. You lost your job, you got no money, you got no savings and you feel like it's all over. And I remember in 1970, I was 10 years old and I was in my grandpa's backyard. We were tearing down an old deck and I pulled some nails out of those old boards as we were taking the boards off and he taught me to put them down and straighten them with a hammer and save those used nails. in a coffee can. Now, my grandpa Ramsey was one of my favorite people on the planet. This is 1970, and he was still answering the phone that rang in the Great Depression. It changed his life. He was Frugal and careful and wise with money the rest of his life. And so someday, 27 year old, you're going to be sitting on the back porch with your grandkid. and you're gonna remember back in alt 20, there was the coronavirus and it changed my life, you know, and that you're gonna be that guy. You're gonna be giving dad jokes, you know, and grandpa jokes, right? Like I am now. And you're gonna get that opportunity. I was 28 years old when I lost everything. It was my fault. It was the SNL crisis. The banking climate changed. I'd built a house of cards. I was stupid and the phone rang. It was my wake up call. Are you going to answer the phone? Are you going to change your life to where you say, never again, I'm going to control the controllables to where I'm the little pig in the brick house. Never again. That may be the only thing you get out of this crisis. And if it is, you got enough.

Preach to me, Dave. Come on now, I love this. What's the biggest wake-up call for you that this has had? Maybe it's not the financial side of things or business because you guys are thriving. Is there something, you know, relationship, family, friendships, health? Is there anything that's woken you up now or in the near future recently?

Well, I've spent the last 15 years pouring into our leadership team and into the Ramsey personalities creating the succession plan of and so it's not a wake up call, it's more of a source of pride as to how our leadership team and our Ramsey personalities are reacting in the moment here without me coaching them. They already knew what to do.

They're leading.

They're out there doing it. They're doing it. They're out there.

They're not waiting for grandpa Dave to say, what do I do? Tell me the steps.

They already did it. They already did it. And then I found out about it, you know, and that's awesome. and so it's just a sense of, ah, this is starting to work, you know, I mean, when Rachel Cruz and Ken Hogan and these guys are doing, Ken Coleman are doing all these hits and Chris Hogan, all these guys are doing all these hits, these radio and TV and appearances and all this stuff everywhere and the networks are calling and asking for them, which is awesome. And so, you know, that kind of thing is, I don't know if it's a wake up call as much as it is, it's very satisfying to say, you know, all that work of the last decade and a half of getting everybody ready to win because we were winning in a winning environment. But then when you get the pressures on and you get squeezed, you see what comes out and it's good stuff coming out.

What was the last, I mean, what year would you say was the last big wake-up call for you around, you know, one of the main areas of your life? Do you remember when that was? We're like, oh, you know, I'm eating a little too many. candy bars or, you know, my relationship or, you know, what? It sounds like you've had the finances down for many years, but is there another? Yeah.

Yeah.

Where you're like, oh, you know what? I really didn't do as good as I should have done here.

I I guess it's probably leadership, and I probably get one of those calls every day. There's some days I'm a world-class leader, and some days I'm just a butt.

In what way? Like, how are you?

So, I mean, sometimes I do a better job than other times as a leader, and I I own it.

I'm.

I get it. But you'd think as old as I am, I'd be doing better, so. But I know what I'm supposed to do, but sometimes I just don't have the energy to do it. I don't care. Yeah. And I should just care more. I really should. I shouldn't be such a grouch.

Oh, no, you're. You care a lot about a lot of people. I'm curious. What's the best. Uh, what's the best dad joke? you share.

Oh, Lord. I can't. I have no idea. Oh, you've got me. I'm not a dad joke guy, really. Other than just stupid stuff off the cuff that doesn't even make sense generationally.

So, yeah, no good dad jokes.

What.

What is the. The most common thing that you're hearing with your.

Your.

The people that are calling in for you right now, what's the thing that you hear over and over again that they need the most support with?

I think there's a sense, I think when hope gets gut punched the way it has for folks right now.

The.

Answers fall, a lot of them fall in the category of this is not going to last forever. Because there's this sense that, you know, stock market's down, do I take my investments out? Well, only if you think it's going to stay down forever.

Right.

Because, you know, you're 35. You're going to be investing for 30 more years. You don't think it's going to come up? in 30 more years? I mean, really, you're predicting the end of America? I mean, that's silly, but your emotions tell you lies when they're based in fear and when they're based in anger and they tell you lies and they tell me lies. We believe those lies in situations like this. So, you know, I lost my job. I know, but that's happened before and then probably happened again. Just get you another one.

Well.

There'S a lot of people hiring right now.

There are a lot of people hiring.

Amazon's hiring 100,000 people right now. so, I mean, there's jobs. It may not be the one you want, but you can get some food.

Yeah.

I mean, get you a leaf blower. And rich people are afraid of leaves. You know, I mean, you can make some money. So there's some stuff to do out there. But the. So the thing that the sense that.

That.

That the thing you're afraid of is going to last longer than it is.

Yeah.

Whether it's the actual virus, whether it's the shutdowns, whether it's the economic repercussions of the shutdowns, whether it's the employment situation. Whether it's the quarantine, it feels like it's going to last forever. But I mean, the chances of you being in the exact situation you're in in a few months is almost zero. Your life is not a snapshot. You're not trapped in this moment. It's a film strip. The story is going to continue to unfold. And so that when hope takes a gut punch though, and we get down in that fear or we're mad or however it is we manifest that stuff, that those negative things, the emotions that we all have in these situations, that's where a lot of my questions are coming. They're all built in that. And I'm spending all my time going, yeah, but it's not gonna last forever. Yeah, but it's not gonna last forever. Yeah, but let's visit this in May. I think you're gonna be okay. By June are you even gonna remember this? It's the great toilet paper shortage of this planet.

I don't know.

I mean, what is it? Some people are gonna have devastating horrible things. that are going to be life changing. But that's a very small percentage compared to the number of that are worried about it.

Yeah.

And so, you know, you're going to.

Get out of it. You're going to be okay.

I mean, you're going to be okay.

I like Preacher Dave, man. This is a preacher show. You know, I like this. What is the worst investment people should be making during this time? And what's the best investment they can make?

In my life, when I have become desperate, right after that's when I become stupid.

Yeah.

And explain the other one. The other one is when I get, well, when, you know, when you get scared and you go rushing towards something out of fear, that sense of desperation, this, oh, thing, when you do that, you're getting ready to screw up. I mean, just count on it. And the other time you do that is if you're greedy. If you think you, okay, I got this one. I can take advantage of this. And I mean, greedy as a lack of virtue greedy. I don't mean greedy in a positive way where I'm being ambitious. Okay. I mean the negative sides of greed. And so if you're functioning in desperation, or in this no holds barred, I'm going to just clean up on other people's pain thing. That's when you're getting ready to screw up and you're getting ready to make a major mistake. And so you're set up also for con artists when you do that. And so if you're functioning in high emotion, your brain just doesn't work good. My friend Art Laffer says, when you're panicked and when you're drunk, you don't make good decisions. and so, you know, you're, when you're on high emotion, your brain is, it's your critical thinking skills shut down. And, and so that's when I've made the biggest mistakes in my life is when I was desperate. And the few times that I was greedy where I thought, oh, I'm gonna slip in there, and that's gonna be easy money.

What was that? Easy money. Could you share a story of one.

Of those greedy times where you tried to jump in and. Yeah, a buddy of mine, a buddy of mine, I was in my 20s and a buddy of mine was buying gold. and now this is in the 80s. Okay, it's a million years ago and he's buying gold and he had this friend that was a gold, he was a gold bug, he was picking gold and this guy had picked the gold prices where they were going within a dollar like 14 times in a row. And so we both dropped five grand into this thing and if we had hit, it was a margin deal, and so I would have made 50 grand and I thought I'm putting money in here. I'm gonna make 50 grand, but it's a margin play, which means you're either gonna make 50 grand or you're gonna make zero. And so he picked it right 14 times the time I got in the 15th time missed it. I got zero, turned 5000 bucks into zero instantly. Last time I bought gold, last time I played stuff on margin, last time I got greedy.

Was it, is there ever a time where, so what's the difference between greed and a great opportunity? of being ambitious. Can you make money fast in certain things? Or is typically most things take a certain amount of time and energy and effort?

The vast majority of people who are successful financially and successful have done it incrementally. There's very few people who you see a meteoric rise in their wealth or their success that's keep it. And I think because you build your character along the way to be able to hold on and be able to do it. I think that's my theory on it. I mean, I got rich quick. I started with nothing and by the time I was 26, I had $4 million worth of real estate. I built a house of cards, you know, and I had a million dollar net worth. I made $250,000 in 1984. I was making 20,000 bucks a month and in my 20s. So, I mean, but you thought I had it all figured out. Meteoric rise to the top. But the very thing that caused me to be the incredible overdrive of ambition caused me to go so fast.

That.

I missed the blind spots. I missed the detour signs. I missed the bridge out signs. And so I built this house of cards I thought was a stone house, but I was naive and didn't know. And along comes some regulations changes, a few shifts in the economy, a little SNL crisis, and couple- It all comes down.

Yeah.

You know, all of a sudden Dave looks like an idiot instead of a genius. And so it turns out I was a little of both because you don't build something like that at 25 if you're not somewhat of a genius. But I was obviously an idiot in the way I built it. And so I get to do it again. Get the wonderful opportunity to start over.

And build it the right way. Yeah. Yeah.

But I mean, in the midst of that, as I was falling, it took two and a half years to lose everything we own. I had stuff presented to me. I almost got conned, serious conned, like people just a real con artist type guy. There's not many of them out there. Most of the time you get screwed by well-meaning ignoramuses. But these were real con artists coming into my path and I was about to give them money because I so desperately needed to turn quick money into big money to save myself. I was desperate. And right about the time you get desperate is when you get stupid.

So don't make those decisions. So there's not really, so what I'm hearing you say is the wealthy, wealthy people, it takes time and it's incremental. It's not an overnight thing. It's not a quick rise. There might be some spikes here and there, but it's typically over time.

It's okay to take a spike, but anytime I get a spike, I'm always a little suspicious of it. Really? It makes me even more careful. I draw back and I go, well, that's really cool. Is it okay? You know, because it's not normative. Normative is incremental.

What are a few things that you think rich people do that poor people don't do? Some of the habits, the mindset or the habits.

All right.

The ones that have actually made their own wealth, not the ones that just like given the wealth to them.

Right.

I think they invest in themselves over and over again, like you just said. I think they watch their minds, their thoughts, beliefs and words and they speak with very serious intention. They continuously educate themselves. They focus on making money and that is such a big deal because money is the most loaded topic we've got going on. I mean, I really think more loaded than sex and religion. And when I, you know, I've written about all of it and I feel like, wow, money, they don't hold a candle to money. You know, think about it. If you tell people like, you know what, this year, I am going to get so rich. I am just gonna focus on making tons of money, as much money as I can. Instantly, people's thoughts go to, you,'re gonna do things that are bad and amoral to make that money. We instantly go there, don't we?

Why? What do you think is the belief that has shaped that in our minds?

I would love to know because that is, it's so there's got to be, I don't know, some sort of conspiracy theory around like controlling people so they think money is bad so they don't get too much power.

I don't know.

I have no idea. But, but yeah, I, maybe it is because I feel like that's what it's about with religion and sex. So it's probably about mind control somehow or keep the masses down.

I don't know. You know, like you said, you know, it was, it was hard being, living in the garage and not making much money. It's, it's hard being a human being with money as well. There's still challenges that come up. But I tell you what, it's a lot more enjoyable to have problems with money than to have problems without money.

Absolutely. And so when people are like, money can't buy happiness, I'm like, Yeah, I mean, you can certainly be unhappy with money, certainly. But it's so much easier. Money is just gives you options and freedom. I love options and freedom. Options and freedom make me happy.

Yeah, you still have to heal your past. You still have to learn how to manage your emotions. You still have to deal with people you don't want to deal with. You still have problems, conflict, challenges, different problems that may come, which is people wanted to take advantage, whatever it might be, that you need to overcome different things. But it's definitely much more enjoyable than needing to rely on my sister or brother to live for a few years and feel like I can't buy my own food. Like at least, you know, I can pay for food. You know, I still have relationship challenges. I still have health challenges that I need to overcome. But at least I can pay for things.

Yes.

Oh, it's so nice.

If you're going to be going through a life that is challenging, you might as well learn to make money to try to minimize some of those challenges the best you can, right?

Absolutely. I mean, we live in a reality that relies on money for everything. Like it's a tool. It is the tool of exchange. So why wouldn't you want enough to make it easy to live, you know?

And when someone who you think is, if they're terrible at sticking with their habits, what do you think is a practice they could do to start with small habits to get started? Whether it's around money or just a habit in general that they always break.

I start out the, I give a 21-day course in the Habits book and the first day is about getting a mantra in place.

Yeah.

You know, I'm not sure.

Yeah.

Why is mantra so valuable and what is the mantra that you use?

Well, so the, you know, thoughts, beliefs and words and they're so valuable because, you know, we were talking earlier about the, you know, we want to be right. So we love being right and our words reinforce our rightness. So whatever our thoughts and beliefs are, our words are sort of building a foundation of a reality, right? They are the building blocks of our reality. so for example, when I was living in the garage, my mantra was, I can't afford it. I said I can't afford it 600 times a day. And so when I decided I was going to get rich, I was like, you know, perhaps I should ditch the old, I can't afford it, and come up with a new mantra. So of course, the first step is awareness. And then to write the new mantra, you have to go deep into what you're holding, like what I can't afford it was protecting me from what my fears were around being able to afford it, you know? So I did a ton of work and I break it down in the book because it is kind of, it's much too involved to go into here, but my new mantra ended up being money flows to me easily and freely. And I really want to point out that when I was living in the garage, eating tuna out of a can, money was not flowing to me easily and freely, right? So that whole belief thing was definitely a stretch. But I loved the, like, ease and freedom and flow. Like, for me, all of my, I can't afford it, was around being constrained and bad and, like, blocking myself. And so the flow, ease and freedom, when I did the whole little process of figuring out my mantra. That's what gave me the feeling of just like, oh yeah, that feels great. Before the interview continues, if you feel.

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So how the mantra works then is I am now looking to money flows to me easily and freely. So every time I wanted to say I can't afford it, I would say money flows to me easily. easily and freely. And because I am a human and I still love to be right, I now set about proving that money flows to me easily and freely instead of proving.

That's right.

Yeah.

Right. Interesting.

So I find a dollar on the street. Money flows amazingly and freely. I'd get some crappy freelance writing job. Money flows to me easily and freely. And the other thing it did is it, it brought into my radar stuff that was all always there, but because I So busy proving I can't afford it. And we are doing this all the time without realizing it. I was literally, I put on the blinders because if it didn't fall into, I can't afford it, then I couldn't even see it. So all the stuff that was always there that was gonna help me make money, like, for example, the coach that I ended up hiring who totally changed my life. I can't afford it. I can't afford it. It's a third of my annual income. But when I started saying money flows to me easily and freely, I had to hire her because money flows to me easily and freely. So it really kicks your butt in such a great way. If you're really serious about it and if you write a mantra that feels really good, you do not have to believe the mantra at first. That's a really important thing to remember.

I was going to ask you about that. How do we say something if it's out of integrity to what is in the moment not true? Right. How do we, because I believe that, you know, in order to build confidence, we've got to be in integrity with our word. So how do we have the belief of a greater future and say this mantra even though we haven't yet proven it with those factual, tangible things?

So it depends how you define integrity.

Okay.

So it's like, okay, it's acting as if, right?

Yeah.

I think there's integrity in respecting your excitement.

So.

You know, you want to learn Spanish. You are excited about it. It has great meaning to you and you think, you know, it's going to improve your life in so many different ways. That's so to walk around being like, I'm great at Spanish. That's not so bad.

Right?

If you're just like, I am great at Spanish. I speak Spanish fluently. I'm great at it. That feels really good. And it's in integrity with your desire. So I say integrity matters when it comes to desire, not environment, because environment is make-believe.

It's interesting. I have had Joe Dispenza on many times. And one of the things that he said recently, I hope I'm remembering correctly. And he was like, you know, a lot of us remember our past, or we make stories up about our past that weren't even real. We magnify these stories and imagine things that actually didn't happen or we blow them out of proportion that wasn't actually real. But what we need to start doing is remembering the memories of our future. And remembering our future memories because these things are going to be happening. So imagining them happening and remembering them now before they happen, it will put you in the state of being to start manifesting those things. So similar kind of what you already said, which is like, okay, you're excited about this. You're desiring this thing. You're imagining it happening in the future and speaking as if it's happened in the future now is just bringing you closer to that thing. that you want. So I think that's interesting. I never heard someone really say it that way. Remember the memories of your future. But if we are really, if we're really, you know, I believe that we're infinite. There's no beginning and end in time wise and in a spiritual world. And for if something's already, you know, it's going to happen, then, then it's, you've got that experience. You can just connect to that experience that's happening in the future, so. Right. I don't know, we're getting out of here a little bit now, but what do you think is the thing that holds people back the most? Is it the desire to be right about beliefs? Is it the affection or the the things that they gain by being stuck in this situation, whether it be someone giving them attention or whatever it may be, What do you think is the thing that holds us back the most from actually having everything we want and being fulfilled?

I mean, those are biggies that you just said.

I think-- this is the School of Greatness, Dan. It's not the School of Average, you know?

I think I'm gonna go with abandonment, Bob, for 1000. I'm gonna say abandonment. being abandoned.

The fear of being abandoned.

The fear of being abandoned. So I think on a very primal level, especially as babies, if we are abandoned, we die.

And.

And, you know, being rejected is about being abandoned. Changing your identity, which you have to do in order to change who you're being, right? So, the fear of that is abandonment. If you change who you are, the people who love you, love you for who you are right now. And this is honestly, I have yet to do a talk and a Q&A where the question does not come up where somebody says, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth?

Right?

Most common question ever. The reason it's so common is because when you change who you're being, the people you love are at the greatest risk, right? So Joe Schmo down the street, when you're like, hey, I'm gonna quit my job and open up a restaurant. Your mother might tell you how risky it is, how restaurants, you know, one out of 10 restaurants succeed and your friends will make fun of you, 'cause now you're, you know, think you're Mr. Big Stuff or whatever, but Joe Schmo down the street's like, Rock on! And you're like, why is Joe Schmo all happy for me when the people who allegedly love me are dragging me down. And it's because subconsciously, mostly, they're afraid that you're gonna change and they're gonna lose you. And you're basically killing off your old identity, who's the person they love, right? And they also, this is also part of it, they're no longer right. And they love to be right. They are right about who you are. And if that changes, and they also love to be right about the fact that you can't do something like that. That's risky and scary. So it's just a mess. But the bottom line is.

A lot.

Of people won't, they'll stay small, they won't go after their hopes and dreams.

Because.

They don't want to risk losing.

The people closest to them. Look, I'm just telling you inflation, even Warren Buffett says maybe two people on the entire planet even understand the concept of inflation. What is the What is inflation? So inflation, yeah, it's a great question, right?

And what is a recession, by the way?

So inflation is an increased price.