How To OVERCOME THE HATERS & Manifest Your DREAMS INTO REALITY | Pokimane & Lewis Howes

I'm excited to connect and learn more about you because you are a part of a world that I really don't know much about. You are one of the top streamers in the world. And we were just talking about this off camera about how not everyone, but sometimes people that come on and watch streaming, they experience loneliness, sadness, they feel like maybe misunderstood or people don't get them. And they find a way to connect with other streamers in things that they like, gaming and things like that. I'm curious, did you ever feel alone yourself growing up? And did you ever feel alone while you were streaming to millions of people?

Well, two-fold question, so two-fold answer. For starters growing up, I feel like I was lucky in the sense that I'm a very extroverted person. I love to talk to people. I find great interest in other human beings. So, It's very easy for me to talk to others, but I felt it was very, very difficult to feel like I belong anywhere.

Really?

Absolutely. And I think that's something that I've struggled with, frankly, most of my life, even though I have good friends. So I think, you know, I learned a bit more about this sentiment year over year, and I found that a large part of that, especially growing up, was due to my upbringing being very different than my friends because I immigrated to Canada at the age of four. Well, my family did bring me along. And I grew up in a more like cultural, religious, strict household than most of my friends did. So things like staying out late, sleepovers with boys, going on trips, those were not things that I was really allowed to do or were common practice for us. And so I'd find myself kind of going to school and having some friends and getting along, but not necessarily relating on a very deep or fundamental basis. And I also missed out on a lot of, like, the bonding experiences that they might have been able to have that I wasn't allowed to experience. And frankly, sometimes Being culturally different from people and not finding many people similar to you makes it hard. You want to fit in, but you, in a sense, will never be able to because no matter how hard you try to be like another group per se, you can never fully become that and you always end up being somewhere in the middle. Yes, so I also feel like my whole life I've had this sentiment of being very indebted to my parents for the sacrifices that they've made. And that's just not something that someone can really relate to, especially when, like, you're in middle school, you're in high school, you're like, what do you mean? Some kids are just like, what do you mean, like, your whole life is about making your parents proud? Like, you just maybe don't get it. So, yeah, I think that's what personally made me feel lonely initially, but I found so much Solace and like comfort in bonding over gaming with people online, actually. Right. Yeah.

Now, fitting in and belonging, what's the difference for you in terms of fitting in versus belonging?

Actually, that's a great question. I think fitting in is being socially acceptable. You know? It's like I walk and talk the part. I am easily digestible to others. But belonging is more so. The people around me understand me to my core, to my soul. They get where I'm from. They understand your decision making, your purpose in life. That's more so belonging. And I am lucky enough to have built at this point in my life some really deep friendships where when I'm around these people, I feel like I belong. I think another part of that is there is such a cultural and racial aspect to belonging. When people around you don't talk or look like you or come from a background like you, it's hard to feel like you belong.

Interesting. So how did you learn to fit in and belong in the streaming world when maybe not everything in the streaming world or the gaming world also fits into your cultural values?

Yeah, oh my. I think for all content creators, it's a bit of a trial and error process. And I think to some extent, we're all a little bit people pleasers, you know?

Especially if you're streaming, it's about getting eyeballs and attention. Yeah, they like this, I need to do more of this.

Exactly. It's a lot about like, it's just a feedback loop. And you wanna make that feedback loop as positive as possible. Initially, at least, right? You're just like, oh, I think I'm doing the right thing.

Especially if you're trying to make it a career and a business and make money and survive.

How do I optimize those positive reactions? But sometimes, somewhere along that path, you start thinking, Wait, am I even enjoying what I'm doing? Am I losing touch of what I want to do versus what I know my audience wants me to do?

Did you ever feel that way?

Of course. Really? I'd assume most content creators do at some point. I do think luckily for a lot of my career, it was just so exciting that I didn't think too much about that until someday you burn out and you're like, hold up, let's take it back a couple steps and reevaluate. And since then, I've just come to view it more so as you need a almost like a Venn diagram. What do people want from me? What do I want to do? Let's make sure I'm focusing on what I want to do and maybe that middle part are the things that you do the most. Yeah, right.

That's interesting. Yeah, I saw on your YouTube you talked about kind of hitting a wall, taking a break, reevaluating your process. Did you feel like you really burnt out hard or was it more just a moment of like, okay, I need to reimagine what I'm doing and why I'm doing this?

Probably both.

Really?

I think, as privileged of a career and lifestyle as content creation is. I think especially when you're trying to optimize it, it's very like go, go, go. And I think most people experience burnout at some point. You kind of just push through it. I would say every year or two, you just try to push through it, find motivation somehow, try something new, whatever it is, right? But this time around, or the last time I felt this way, I realized like there was something deep within me that just yearned for something different.

Really?

Yes.

So before, years ago, you were like, okay, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and stressed and tired, and I keep showing up, and part of it's fun, but it's kind of draining, and you would push through. But this last time, you're like, I need to completely reinvent.

And that was a very difficult decision to make. Even filming that video, I was like, cheering up, Yes, so many aspects to go into, but very big decisions.

Why was it so hard to make that decision?

I think any time that you've, I mean, it's hard enough to find something that works for you, right? I feel like we spend our whole lives trying to figure out what's gonna work for me, and then imagine finding that, and a few years into it, you feel like it's not for you anymore, maybe, or you feel like you just. Your heart yearns for more. I feel like there's no other way for me to really summarize that sentiment. And, I mean, there were just so many aspects to that decision, whether it's, like, financially or the people that rely on me, I decided to, like, pay for my parents' retirement. I work with so many people whose incomes rely on me. Any thing, any change that I make to my business structure, even though as a person, you know, I may just look like a person making content, there are so many other people that I should consider and my audience, right? Obviously, there are people that I want to make happy. And I feel like this constant desire to make people proud. And I'm like, what if this doesn't feel like the right choice for other people, but it was something I had to do for myself. And I just keep hoping that as long as I try to optimize for my happiness and health, that will allow me to output the best stuff that I can over my whole lifetime, whatever that will end up being.

Right.

Yeah.

So when you were doing, you know, before you made this decision, this was, what, like last year or like the last?

This was like eight months.

Eight months ago, yeah. So you took a pause, right? You took a break. And how long was that pause?

That was about a month. So every like two years or so, I'm like, I'm gonna go insane. And I'm so lucky to be able to take a month off.

Sure, sure.

But yeah, it's 'cause the rest of.

The year, it's like-- Now before then, were you like streaming every day a certain amount of hours or five days a week? Or what did that look like?

Yeah, so I probably started off like six days a week. At least six hours, which is- Six hours a day.

Yeah. Streaming your content.

That might sound weird to you? I know, being in front of a computer talking for six hours every day. Yeah, but to me, I was like, that's not enough. And I even had a manager at some point who was like, no, you need to do like 10 plus hours every day. And I was like, I kid you not, my brain will melt.

And so you're playing video games and you're talking for six hours a day.

I know, that sounds like not much, but you feel like you have to be so on that whole time talking to them.

Yeah, it's a lot of energy.

And I do feel like every streamer is a bit different. Some people are like, I'm just gonna chill and play my game, and I feel like maybe that's more sustainable or easier to do even 10, 12 hours in a day. But for me, I literally not stop talking the entire six hours. And I end up being pretty tired after, but then you wanna film some YouTube videos, you wanna take photos, and I'm someone who honestly, out of everything, I love the business aspect of being a content creator. I've helped co-found an organization. I co-founded a management agency and consultation brand. I work with a clothing company. I just love doing all of these little things on the side. So it's many streams of income, many projects, many everything's all at once, which is fun, but sometimes it gets a little overwhelming, too. Yeah.

What are the top three revenue streams that most streamers make from? Is it live streaming? Is it sponsorships and ads? Is it selling your own products? What else is there?

I would say primarily streaming. And when you stream, you have like subscription revenue if people subscribe to you. That's like a fee every month. And then you also have ad revenue and donations as well if people wanna send in money. Yeah, but I feel like at some point in your career, it's like you don't want to accept too much in donations. So I personally like capped mine.

Why don't you accept donations?

Well, I'll cap it at like two or $5. I think that's my cap because it just started feeling wrong to take money from people. You know, when I was like a college student in debt, I was so grateful. Yeah, it was so nice. And it made such a huge difference in my life. But once you get to a certain point in, again, very grateful, very privileged, but financial stability, the likelihood is that this person might need the money more than me. Even $20, send me two instead, not 20. Keep the rest for yourself. So it's like I keep that interaction without, I don't want to cause financial strain on anyone.

Sure, sure, sure.

So that sponsorships for sure. and probably like YouTube ad revenue.

Right, those are the main revenue streams, the top revenue streams for you. Gotcha. Now, how did you deal with self-image and self-confidence when you're staring, maybe not looking at yourself the whole time, but you're on a screen and you can see part of yourself for six hours a day, some people 10 hours a day, you've got probably tens of thousands of comments coming through throughout this time. I'm assuming tens of thousands of live viewers at different times, if not more, and money coming in, and also positive comments and negative comments. How do you stick true to your family values while also staring at yourself and having to be a personal brand and put yourself together and be on camera and photos and play a character in a sense sometimes? To an audience, how do you manage that?

That's a great question because I don't feel like a lot of people even consider that aspect of it. Obviously it looks very fun. You play games, you make videos for a living, and it is really, really fun. But when you look at it from that angle, especially from that of a female streamer, you do get constant comments on your appearance. and there's simply no way to not process or be impacted by that mentally, right? Personally, I try to take as, I guess, a reasonable and realistic of an approach as I can, which is like, if I know that this is a part of my day to day, I need to minimize the negative aspects, right? That means one, having moderators who will remove like the really annoying or weird stuff.

Yeah, spammy stuff.

Or the negative comments. Even filtering out certain words is very, very helpful. And secondly, I try to spend so much time offline or honestly, undoing the downsides of just being chronically online, frankly, yes. And when those kinds of things get too hard, therapy. And frankly, the most difficult times in my career or the times where I'm most unsure of myself, I try to ask myself, if I try to imagine myself five or ten years younger, watching me, how could I make this person proud? That's the question. how can I maybe positively influence them in the decisions that I make, the things that I do or say? What is something that could like enrich someone's soul? Because I think you can very easily just start like focusing entirely on like how you look or optimizing for that. But is that like the right message that I want to send to my female viewers or people who might not feel the best about themselves. So I try to be considerate of all those things.

That's good.

But especially therapy.

What's the big, when did you start going to therapy and what was the biggest lesson that you've learned in therapy?

I actually feel like I started going almost as soon as I moved to LA.

Really?

Yeah. As soon as I started feeling like, oh, this is just getting to be a lot.

What is? What's getting to be a lot?

Oh, well at the time I lived with other content creators.

Oh man, so it's nonstop all day. All day, all night. Streaming, streaming, streaming.

Yeah, it felt like I was in a reality TV show.

You kind of were. An online reality show, live streaming.

Yeah, kind of fun, but kind of mentally overwhelming. And I was like, how do I keep my sanity intact? And I just try to be very considerate of how I'm being influenced in a way, right? So I started going to therapy then and it was really nice because it felt... How do I say this? It felt like it was like, yeah, just keeping me sane a little bit. Like a way to take care of my brain and calm it down. I think the thing that I learned or the thing that comes off that comes to mind when you ask me that question Is my current therapist now at one point told me like, Hey, the rate that you're going at, I don't think there's any way for you to continue this lifestyle and this, like at this rate without needing consistent therapy.

Really?

Yeah.

Wow.

This was maybe like a year ago, and that was very helpful for me to realize I was getting so frustrated with some of the issues that I was experiencing that I realized for me to stop winding up in the same place or winding up in the same place, I need to make big changes. You want to see big change, make big changes kind of thing.

What were the biggest frustrations you were facing?

Some of the like, Just some of the harassment you get online, or not just you in general. I'm very cognizant that if you put yourself out there, there's gonna be negativity, right?

You're opening yourself up to all types of comments. Yes, 100%.

And honestly, I feel like I have a pretty thick skin. I grew up with an older brother, we fought all the time. I've played video games my whole life. So like, I get it, right? But even all those things considered, being a female in a male-dominated space, There were just certain things that I was dealing with that were getting to be too much and too cyclical.

Really?

It felt like every three to four months it was like some crisis, some big thing that was like really impeding my life.

Really?

Yeah.

What were these, what types of crisis? Is it like stalkers? Is this like...

Sometimes it's like other content creators, like having some sort of like hate campaign against you.

Really?

Or like farming you for views.

Like a bully campaign almost.

Yeah, I hate to say that and like, you know, at the end of the day, I'm putting myself out there, but it became very evident that the way that I was being treated in the past was very different than my male counterparts.

Really?

And that was very frustrating. Luckily, that has improved like year over year, I would say, but was difficult to deal with at certain points in my career.

What advice do you have to young individuals watching or listening who struggle with criticism, rejection, the opinions of other people? How have you learned to overcome those opinions? To not let it affect your self-value and self-worth?

I think for starters, just accepting that statistically, There's gonna be a percent of people that don't like you. That's okay. That's life. Do you like everybody you've ever met? No. Right? So don't worry about it too much, right? Some level of criticism, of distaste, is to be accepted and is completely normal. Secondly, take advice from people that you look up to. 'Cause, you know, some of the things random people online say to me, I'm like, I'm sorry, you don't have the qualifications to comment on that, frankly. Which is kind of funny. And lastly, this one is a bit more specific. Like when you're dealing with criticisms that are solely tied to something that is outside of your control, whether that's like how you look or your gender, your race, any of these things that are much more personal and frankly unfair. From my experience, it is best to find validation and reassurance from like-minded people. The support I got from other female streamers and women in the space is like the sole thing that kept me like pushing through. So that's so, so, so, so happy.

That's great. Think of all the amazing things in life that are expressions of just you. For instance, the song you stream over and over again while you're in your 13th hour of gaming at 4:00 a.m. in the morning. With all the lights off, trying not to wake up your roommates, or the recommendations that you share with your friends on the top six comedy podcasts that are the best to listen to on your way to the gym and back, or even your new haircut, which may or may not be an epic bowl cut from the 90s and hopefully is. Everything that makes you, you, makes all the difference. State Farm believes insurance should work the same way. Your plan, your coverage, they need to be personalized to you and the ability to choose the plan you want by picking the options that fit you like building your home and auto policies, is exactly what the State Farm Personal Price Plan is all about. Getting the coverage you want at an affordable price just for you. So, are you ready to make things personal? Call or go to statefarm.com today to create your State Farm Personal Price Plan. Prices vary by state. Options selected by customer, availability and eligibility may vary. What are the advantages and disadvantages that women have in the online streaming gaming space versus men. Advantages and disadvantages in the same space.

I'd say advantage is like sometimes, I don't know if minority is the right word to use in this case, but I guess it is. Sometimes being a minority helps you almost like stand out in a way as a content creator when there's something that differentiates you from everyone else, right? if you see a hundred people and they're kind of similar or like, even if they're like the same gender and then there's one girl, we're like, oh, at least like your eyes kind of drawn there, like, this is different, right? So maybe that's an advantage, but it's also a disadvantage because then people will use that attribute to maybe pick on you or treat you differently. Yeah, that's the main thing. I mean, I don't know if you know much about gaming, but It's pretty well known that like there's a hint of misogyny here and there. I don't like to talk about it too much. It's like a bit of a tired topic, but it just kind of is what it is. Luckily, I feel like there is more variety in the gaming community year over year. The pandemic brought a lot of eyeballs into this industry a lot as well. So, yeah, it's improved a lot.

What is the the thing you love the most about being able to stream to an audience live?

I love the interaction. I love talking to people. It's so fun. And getting like an insight into other people's lives. And I feel like there is no greater sense of fulfillment than having like a positive influence on someone else.

Yeah, that's good.

Which might sound grandiose for like gaming, blights, you know, when someone's like, oh, I'm so happy to see you live, or you've kept me company during a tough time. That's so nice, right? And being someone who, like, I've been a viewer of the same content creator that or type of content creator that I. That. That I then became, I understand that position so well that it just feels really good. Yeah.

Now, how long have you been doing this for about?

Oh, my God. Almost 10 years or eight, nine years.

Nine years. you've been in the kind of streaming space.

Yeah. Crazy.

Do you feel like after almost a decade of being in the space that you fit in or that you belong?

I think I would probably say both at this point, but mainly because it feels like I really carved out a space for myself. I, like, took years building my own little chair, and I'm like, I'm gonna sit here, okay? You can't do anything about it. And luckily then, you know, I got my little circle of friends and now I feel like safe and really loved.

You belong in that community, right? Maybe you fit into the whole community, but in your community you belong.

Yeah.

What is it about you that makes your community love you the most?

Oh, I feel, I don't know, ask them. I would want to say that I try to be as like upbeat as I can. Just naturally, that's what I like to do. I feel like I've been very lucky to have had this career at a kind of pivotal time within streaming. And I feel weird saying this about myself, but it feels very nice when members in my community are like, oh, you inspire me or you motivate me or your make me feel like I can stream. As a woman, as this, as that, you know what? You make me feel like it's okay. That is so, so kind.

You see comments come through constantly. You're-- most of your community, I'm assuming, is in their teens and early 20s. Is that correct? Most of the community?

I would think so, yeah.

Why do you think so many people in their teens and early 20s struggle with mental health and motivation today?

Honestly, I hate to say it, as someone who profits from this industry. But I think social media has a big hand in that. I also think though that there are just a lot of modern day issues that feel very isolating or difficult for people to deal with. I think that was off the top of my mind.

Do you feel like people are more isolated? that they don't have a purpose or they feel like they don't belong in their communities. That causes them to suffer mentally.

All of the above. And the internet can be a great getaway. Like, even for me personally, when I was in high school, it felt like I had a bit of a double life. Like, Hannah Montana, I would go to high school, I was like part of the student council with all my friends, and I'd go home and I would only be online with like my online friends. And I felt like I bonded with so many people over gaming, people that I felt like I couldn't have those types of connections with my friends that I knew in real life. Really? Yeah.

So you had deeper connections online than in life connections.

I think so, yeah. But also it's like that's kind of when you connect the most with people on your off time, experiencing things together. And gaming with someone is experiencing something.

Bonding, you're like competing, you're going for a challenge, let's go.

Absolutely. You have like the same hobby. Okay, the first game that I started streaming was called League of Legends. And during that time, like before it started blowing up, it was like any time I met someone who also played, it was like, oh, you know, immediately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like a secret club. And so that sentiment is so, so nice. And I think we're also living in a day and age where all human beings are so multifaceted and especially like the Gen Z's generation, everybody is so unique and different, but sometimes you grow up either going to a school or in a city or in a household where you don't feel like every part of you is really accepted. And that leads to not feeling like you belong, isolation, and sometimes, luckily, you can get that sentiment online.

Yeah.

But then sometimes being online too much can also hurt your mental health.

Right, it's a balance. Did you always feel like you were accepted at home?

I always felt very loved, yeah, and accepted, but just like... it was a little bit stricter and I just always felt like the most important thing was like following the rules, making my parents proud, Go to, you know, get straight A's. Oh my God, yeah, such a nerd.

Go to college.

Get straight A's, go to college, study engineering, law, or become a doctor, yeah. And like that, that was the path laid out for me. That's it.

So when you went to school and you studied, I think, chemical engineering, right? And then you dropped out eventually.

Yeah.

Which is almost like a death to an immigrant's parents, right? It's like, I cannot believe this. What do you mean? There's no other option than getting an amazing degree.

I mean, I've been out for years. after taking a break from school, I didn't call it dropping out at the time.

I want to pause.

Yeah, I'd be making like six figures, maybe even seven at one point, and mom's like, so when are you gonna go finish your degree? I'm like, I'm making more than I would have made with my degree. Are you kidding me? So yeah, it was like always that plan laid out for me. So I just grew up in that sense, like people pleasing for my parents and then people pleasing for audiences around the world. And I was just always thinking of like, what should I do? Do the quote unquote right thing. And it was only within the last like two years that I've am really trying to rewire my brain to think about like, what do I want to do? The wants instead of the shoulds. That's what my therapist said. He's like, you have a bad case of the shoulds. It's like, what do you mean? Stop thinking about what you should do. What do you want to do?

Yeah. How has that been a struggle to kind of break the rules of what your parents want or what you feel like your community wants and actually doing what you want?

Yeah, absolutely. Especially because when you fall into that feedback loop of like, what do other people want of me? You get validation from that, right? Like, oh, I posted this thing and I, you know, cultivated it to be what they would like. and they liked it.

It worked.

Right? And then maybe you post what you want.

And they don't like it.

Not as much. And you're like, craving that validation, you know? So it's for sure a part of the job that you need to manage so that you don't, because if you keep feeding that beast, oh, it gets bigger. But it is a part of the job as well.

So, yeah. How do you manage? How do you manage now dealing with ego and validation and also just feeling really good about you, not doing something for ego or validation, but for you and also being able to impact people. How do you manage that?

I've a lot of journaling. I plan out my whole life. So basically, and also it's almost like I'm rehabilitating myself. Like, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy. I feel like I do that to myself. For example, instead of posting something and immediately looking at like, are people liking this? What are they commenting? How is it performing? Etc. Etc. If I know it's something that I liked and that I feel good about or I feel like it's going to reach and resonate with the right people, I just let it go and I try to just forget about it. So I'm almost like trading myself to not crave that feedback loop as much.

The dopamine hit.

Yes, and not be so tied to the results. so I that and instead setting other goals for myself. Because the thing about validation from other people, frankly, to me, it was like a school rubric. And for a long time, I'm like, I wish with content creation, you could get a rubric. Like, am I doing good enough? The numbers never stop going. So what is good enough? And even maybe people climbing, like, the corporate ladder might be able to relate. It's like when Are you supposed to feel enough or in any aspect, right? Whatever you're optimizing, how do you know it's enough? So figuring out what is make your own rubric, make your own goals as opposed to following what is maybe more traditional, whether that's like what does success look like to others or just focusing on like monetary value, things like that. Figure out what you actually want to optimize or reach.

Yeah. Do you feel enough right now?

Luckily, yes. I want to say yes. I feel like I am reaping the rewards of like, I feel like a year or two of trying really hard to work on myself so that I don't keep being the same version of myself that I was all of these years. Not that that was a bad version, but I just feel like, you know, the beautiful thing about life is that it's so dynamic and you can choose who you want to be at any point just by changing the decisions that you make, right? Because we are kind of just like a culmination of our decisions.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So it took a lot of thinking and planning of like, what do I want the next phase of my life to be? Because I can a hundred percent keep streaming every day forever. I don't know. But I felt like I wouldn't change at all. I wouldn't grow as a person. I wouldn't experience new things. So how do I make this change? How do I let go and try something new?

Right. What was the biggest thing you had to rewire in your brain in the last couple of years? What was that shift that you had to really transform to get you to the current place you're at now? We're all work in progress. But to be where you are right now, what did you rewire?

For sure, just like, I'm so type A. I mean, studying engineering, I'm just always thinking about optimization. Optimize, optimize, optimize. That's why, you know, I'm a content creator. I work with algorithms and stuff, right? So I think letting go of that a little bit and recreating new goals has been difficult, but very worthwhile because you can find, like, what you find fulfilling might change over years, right? So figuring that out constantly.

When do you feel the most loved and the most enough?

I think it was really, really important for me to find ways to recreate those sentiments that are not relating to my work. And like really carving out a private life, like good relationships with friends that I trust, And that is actually such a priority for me. I think with them I feel very loved and enough. And also when I put myself out there in a way that I know is not optimized to my audience, but people still really enjoy it. That means a lot to me.

Really?

Yeah.

So you're not trying to do what they want or what the algorithm is telling you to do, but you're just like, you know, I want to talk about this. I want to create this type of content. And here's what's on my heart and my soul and my mind. put it out there and maybe it's not the biggest thing ever, but it still does well.

Yeah. Or some people say, oh, it really resonated with me, or I took this away and have implemented it into my life. That is so fulfilling. Makes me feel good.

Do your parents actually know what you do?

Now, yes.

Because it took my parents, my whole family, probably, I don't know, until two years ago to know what I was doing. 'Cause they're like, what do you do with this online marketing thing? This pot, what is this?

How do you make money? You know? Once, my mom's a teacher, so once her students pieced it together, and they started calling her Poki's mom, then she started getting it.

She stopped telling me to go back to school.

That's funny, not Poki's mom, but Poki's mom. Yeah, yeah. Poki's mom, hi Poki's mom. That's hilarious. That's so cute. She's like, I get a lot of.

Benefits at school from being your mom. I'm like, good, you deserve them. You've sacrificed so much for me, as.

You should, you know? That's amazing.

But they've been around for a few years.

Yeah, absolutely. When you find out, they still don't really understand streaming. They can get around YouTube videos, TikTok. Streaming is still a little bit of a bubble. Yeah. Yeah.

But how long, because you essentially quit college, so how long until they were like, okay, you don't need to go back. We get it. You're okay on your own. You're not gonna starve and be alone the rest of your life. How many more years was that after you Paused college.

Four or five? A while. I would say maybe four. Four years of like, everything's gonna be okay. You're coming back.

To do some money.

Even now, I paid for my parents' retirement and my mom will still be like, Do you need some money? But it's really, really sweet. And frankly, I feel like the biggest privilege I've had in life was having caring and attentive parents, regardless of like, oh, were they kind of strict? Did that make me feel like, whatever. They were there for me. They cared. Wow. They... Like, they loved me 100%. And even when I, like, ran off to LA to do God knows what, they still always told me, like, if all else fails, you have a bed in our home with us. Like, you can always come back here. and I feel like that's something that everybody deserves. And it hurts my heart and soul so much that it just feels so unfair that some people don't have parents that treat them that way. I don't know. I'm like, can I treat you that way? I'll make an extra bed for you.

Right, right.

But, yeah, it feels like you're genuinely the greatest privilege I've had.

Oh, that's cool. What decision have you made that you're the most proud of?

Frankly, persevering through very difficult, weird online situations. Really? Yeah, there were a lot of times where as the number one Twitch female streamer, I was put in a position where I really didn't want to be. Not that position in particular, But just like being talked about in certain ways, either like people being inappropriate towards me or like sexualizing me when I really didn't want to be, or spreading rumors or this and that, especially on like a large stage in front of communities and communities and whatever happened, doing my best to react in like the right way. In a way that would make other women in the space feel safe. And I think the messages that I still get to this day of people like being grateful for that means the world to me. Yeah.

So when you were facing some of these difficulties, you know, the ego wants to defend, it wants to react, it.

Wants to... And sometimes I did.

And I have to apologize for that. to say what it needs to say, it wants to, whatever it might you want to do, right? It wants justice. It wants fairness.

This doesn't feel fair.

It's not fair, it's not right, that's not true. Why did they do this? So how did you respond in a, I guess, conscious way that people still talk about today? How was that response?

I think when you're in tough situations like that, especially when you feel that ego kicking in, you need to get advice from other people. People that you trust, people that you know will give you an honest answer. And don't get advice from one person. Ask like 10 people, you know?

So don't just jump on video and say how you feel right away.

Been there, done that. Not the best idea, but really formulating like, how do I want to go about this? And as I said before, like, if I was in the audience instead of in my shoes, how would I want to see my favorite content creator or someone that I look up to respond or react? You know, what would I find inspiring? What would I find benefits this ecosystem as a whole of like live streaming of gaming, this community? How can I make a good Impact when I know people are watching or are waiting for my answer. Right.

How many people are on the streaming Twitch world?

Oh, me.

How many million people are on the platform? I'm not even aware.

Well, I have like 9 million followers, so more than that. Right.

And how many people, just to give context, because I'm assuming a lot of people watch or listen to this, my community isn't on Twitch as much. What is, like, what is the top people on Twitch? How many live viewers will they have on an average day?

Well, Twitch has gone through, like, its ups and downs. So, like, the peaks were like 50, 100,000 viewers.

Live.

Yeah. For some of the top people. For you as well. When everybody was at home during the pandemic, yeah, I've had numbers like that, which is insane.

100,000 people watching live.

What? Like, you can't even fathom that.

Yeah. Right? Football stadium.

Exactly. But nowadays it's calmed down a little bit and it's more so people who are like really dedicated to watching. So like probably the top live streamers maybe have like 50,000. I'm more around like 10,000 which is still like a ton. I feel like that was like I hit one to five thousand, I'm like set for life. Like this is fine. Right. And then you get into it and you're like the way that it can snowball is crazy. Wow.

And what is the strategy moving forward for you with business, branding, with managing, you know, this community and this audience and kind of reinventing yourself? What's the vision you have moving forward?

Um, as I said before, I've just like written down a bunch of mantras that I want to live my life according to.

What are those?

Some are just like, I mean, if I had my phone, I'd tell you right away, but, like, for example, instead of just focusing on content that either I know people will like or that is, like, optimized for the algorithm or whatever, balancing that. Balancing that with an equal amount of content that is for, like, a specific community of people that I wanted to resonate with, like, every piece of content doesn't need to be a banger. Sometimes you just want to. cultivate a community or tell like-minded people how you feel, what you think, make them feel like they're not alone. And sometimes that that's not everyone and that's okay, right? It's more so about, again, creating that community of people that you will be proud to be a part of. Yeah.

And what about the, the business that you have going forward? Is it less streaming and so therefore potentially less Revenue there and you're trying to generate Revenue in other places? What's that strategy for you?

Yeah, so it was a little bit twofold making that decision.

Because you're not streaming all the time anymore, right?

Not anymore, no. I'll stream maybe like two or three times a week, as opposed to like almost every day kind of thing.

Still six hours or a little less?

I'll do like four to eight hours, something like that.

But half the week.

Yeah. Which is different. And I'm working on other projects. As you know, like when your income is directly tied to your time. It's not very scalable and it can be very tiring if you're trying to optimize how much you make, right?

Well, it's all on you, too.

Yeah.

It's like the energy of your face, your persona, your brand. You've got to be on constantly.

Yeah. Yeah. And as I mentioned before, I love the business marketing aspect of everything. So interesting to me. So I'm in the works. I have a project that will launch when it launches. Sure. And that's been such a fun, like, passion of mine, and I wouldn't have had the time to pursue it if I didn't actively make the decision to, you know, stream less and explore other things. But for a long time, it was really hard, especially as I said, like, coming from an immigrant family or, like, being an immigrant, it's like, The number one thing is to make it financially and like pay back your parents. And that has always been like such, such a heavy factor in my decision making that to rewire that was a little bit difficult. And again, I'm so lucky to even be able to make the decision not to. But I'm sure I'm not the only one out there. Like, I find there's probably a lot of people who end up working so hard in one direction. for example, especially like the corporate ladder, and then you wind up somewhere where maybe you're making good pay, but you might not be as happy as you thought you were.

Right.

So what do you do then, right? And I feel like there were like different seasons of my life, and I intentionally decided to make one season, like the season of like, I would just grind. Let me just grind until I'm financially stable enough to do whatever I want. So that was even having that opportunity is very lucky again. It's very difficult for me to talk about these things because I don't want to come off like out of touch or privilege, even though being a content creator, you frankly just are. But speaking frankly, that was just a decision that I decided to make. I was like, I'm gonna make less money so I can have a more fun life.

Sure, sure.

But before that, I'm gonna grind my so yeah. My parents don't have to worry. No, I don't have to worry.

That's amazing. Well, you wanted to have more peace, more harmony, more balance in your life. And I think, you know, you mentioned being a content creator is a privileged life. And I think for some, you know, I think there's a lot of content creators that don't make any money. Yeah. That don't have either the timing, the talent, the skill, you know, the, the drive that you've had where it's really popped off and worked for you. Some people try and it doesn't work for whatever reason. And there's a lot more people that that struggle trying to make a living from content. I think it's a challenging thing. So for you to be able to do what you've done is inspiring and impressive, but it sounds like you figured out, you know, you can't keep doing the same grinding thing nonstop.

I mean, for some people, they can, and if that makes them happy.

Right.

You know, all the more power to them.

I'm curious, you've had a, you know, eight, nine years of kind of experience in the streaming world and just, reinvented yourself a few different times and grown and been to therapy and all these had some hardships and dealt with some stress, you didn't feel like you belonged or fit in at times. If you could go back to your 16-year-old self and give three pieces of advice before you kind of jumped into this world of streaming and online personality to set her up for success, what would you say to her?

I would actually start off by saying like, disarm yourself a little bit. You know, apologizing is not a bad thing. Sometimes things may feel unfair, but not everything is about what's fair or not. Life in general is not fair. Um. so take a moment. Like, anytime you feel defensive or reactive, it's much better to just take a moment. I also like to think, like, I don't dwell on this kind of question too much because I'm like, what if I this, what if I that? Would I go back and change this decision? At the end of the day, I'm like, as cheesy as it sounds, I really do view every mistake as, like, a learning lesson. That's also how I cope. I'm like, I might have made that mistake, but I learned from it. What else can I do?

Sure.

So you just let it go. Definitely that would be number one. Number two is like, try very hard to stay true to yourself. But that's also, that's a lesson you learn. Sometimes you stray too far one way and you're like, I don't really feel like me. And then you, you know, you're back a little bit throughout life probably. and lastly is probably to prioritize your health as much as you can, physical, mental, in whatever ways that you can, because, you know, that's the number one limiting factor of anything you want to accomplish, right?

For those who are, who look up to you and whether it be young women or men that are like, I want to get into streaming. I want to make this a full-time career or content creation. What's the one thing you would have people do with an hour a day before they did any of their content? If you could have an hour to do this one thing to set yourself up for a better life, what would that be?

Before making money.

Before you start, yeah, before you're 10 hours a day grinding and just going for five to 10 years. If you had to carve out an hour a day for something else, what would that be?

Honestly, before your day, get some sunlight, 10 minutes. Meditate, 10 minutes. And have a well-balanced meal, 10 minutes. Honestly, move your body somehow. That's it. Those four things. And your quality of life will improve significantly and you will be minimizing the downsides of However hard you want to work. Right.

Because I feel like there's a lot of, I mean, I see the younger generation and I see a lot of them just either on their phone for 10 to 15 hours a day and it looks like they're either consuming TikTok or Snapchat or Twitch or whatever or just messaging their friends all day or they're on a screen, you know, some type of screen. And I just feel like I, I see the power of using social media and it's what I've done to build my business as well, but I also know how powerful it is to disconnect every day.

Not just powerful, I think necessary. I wish there was more education surrounding that topic, especially for the younger generation. Parents nowadays who have to figure out how to manage their kids' relationship with these devices. It's all very new territory, but people need to be very, very cognizant of the ways that it can shape your mind. And I mainly speak to this, especially for young girls, because I know how detrimental it can be to their self-perception, their confidence, all of these things. Yeah. What.

Does looking at yourself looking at other women on social media or streaming with filters and, you know, modification apps do to young women.

It makes you feel not right. You know, I feel like we're constantly being told whether we recognize it or not, When we see something repeatedly and we see something be praised repeatedly, we know, oh, this is what's right. And anything that doesn't look like that is wrong.

Wow.

And so I think it's very important to one, be weary of who you follow. Are you diversifying who you follow? Are you following them because of how they look, because of what they say? What are the reasons for that? And are those reasons good? And then two, I just implore people to spend more time in real life, frankly. Because online, you see a lot of the same, but when you're just walking around in real life, you see what real bodies look like, what people look like up close. We all have wrinkles and spots and this and that, and not everybody's flat-stomached, and even the people who post photos like that at some point are not, like after a big meal. So, like, yeah, go to the gym, see real people working out what those things actually look like. Otherwise, our entire- our perception is just a culmination of what we see. If all that we see is optimized, filtered, modified in some way, it's not realistic. So make sure to spend an equal amount of time in a more realistic environment.

How's that affected you at all, seeing other women you know, on social media with filters and everything else?

For sure, and I mean partially just as a viewer or as an audience, or a woman in her 20s, you know? It's like, oh, this kind of style is praised a lot. Should I do this? Should I do that? And then secondly, as a content creator, like, oh, people really like this kind of look. Would it be optimizing my business to look this way? You get what I mean? There's so many levels to it and I think going down that rabbit hole too much, one hurts your brain and two honestly detracts from the fun and more like fulfilling parts of content creation, which is like making someone happy.

Right.

Or putting something out that means a lot to me, as opposed to focusing too much on appearances, can be hard sometimes.

Sure.

Yeah. So I've had, like, anytime I feel my brain getting caught up in that a little bit too much, I'm like, okay, let's reel it back. Let's reevaluate how much time I'm spending online, what I'm thinking about, the kind of content that I consume. That's really important, too. Right. Yeah. Like you said, your whole TikTok is motivational stuff. It is motivational. So that's what your brain is going.

To be all about. And the things that you talk about is going to be all about that, too. Exactly. I'm curious about your perspective on money. You started making really good money in your late teens, early 20s. More than 99.9% of people in their late teens and 20s in the world probably. How did that affect you? Making more money than your peers, most of your peers, at a young age? And what is the dark side of making money for someone who's really young?

Well, I don't want to act like it's such a detrimental thing, you know? Yeah, because, I mean, I started streaming when I was in high school, didn't make much. In college, was still in debt for like two years. And then it started taking off. And then maybe two, three years after that, I started making significantly more, like more than what a doctor makes. And then for like two, three years, It was much, much more than I could have ever imagined. So initially it was really just like step by step. Like I'm just looking to have like a part-time job basically. I can make a little bit of money here while studying engineering. Cool. Then I was like, wait, if I focus on this for a couple months, I can pay off my student loans. Cool. And then frankly, for me, my dream in life was always to make six figures. Because that's like what a doctor makes. Sure, right? Sure. Let's go. And I really felt like at that point, I was like, okay, I'm good. But it felt like the expectation in life is to optimize that. So when you see the opportunity, right? It's like, go for it. Go for it. but at some point it's like you don't really realize what you're sacrificing or if you should keep going for it. And I think there were a lot of times where I just put like my health and my mental on the back burner because I was so fixated on like I need financial stability. And just like with anything else, it can get like like, it just becomes a habit or almost, like, addicting. It's like, okay, need to focus on this. And I just. I lost sight of again, like, what do I want? What actually makes me happy? And it's like, there was such a scarcity sentiment. Yeah. I mean, even with content creators, it's like, you don't know where your career is going to be in a year or two. Right?

What if the algorithm changes? What if they cancel my account? What if. Who knows, right?

Yeah. I'm not going to say that there were like crazy downsides aside from like things that I had to figure out myself, right? Like how to really manage my life and my business structure. But I do feel like sometimes to my peers maybe they like viewed me differently knowing that.

Really? How so?

Well, I think depending on the person, it might be something that they judge you off of.

How much money you're making?

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. I think for some people it can be inspirational, but for some people it's like, oh, you're over there and I'm here kind of thing. But it's like, oh, I don't come from money. Like, I'm not like that, man. Yeah. Which I understand, right? Everybody makes. assumptions based off of what they might know about someone. But I also think the lifestyle that I was leading when I wanted to, like, save up as much as I could, take care of my parents, do this, do that, that lifestyle was also isolating.

Really?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

How so?

It's just work, work, work all the time. And when you're optimizing for work or for financials, Everything else is on the back burner. And it takes so much effort to like, oh wait, I need to keep up with friends. I need to create a friend circle. I need to do this, I need to do that. Even taking care of like your health. It's so easy to set everything else aside when you're focused on career goals.

Right. Now, it sounds like you weren't raised with a ton of money, but you had money, you had a home, you had, you know, opportunities. But you weren't having this rich lifestyle growing up as a kid, right?

Not at all. I feel like you wanna know how I learned really the value of a dollar?

Sure.

Which in hindsight, I'm so glad that I did. I've had numerous jobs before streaming. My very first one was I was a newspaper delivery girl.

Nice.

And I can get- yeah, I've always had a very mathematical optimization kind of mindset. and I would make maybe like $100 every two weeks or something, and I would do it like two, three times a week, and I had this kind of a route, and I did meet everything up to be like, okay, every time I drop off a newspaper, that's five cents. Yeah, so I'm like, five cents, five cents, five cents, five cents, five cents, yeah. So that was, I mean, that was great, and I was so excited, you know, 'cause I didn't get like, what do you call it when your parents give you money?

In like entitled or an allowance?

An allowance. I didn't have like an allowance or anything like that. So for me to have money to spend on my own, that was the only way. Like go get a job. So I was like 13 years old, five cents, five cents. But it was so exciting to be able to do something on my own, to exchange my time and labor for any amount of money, right? And then you start thinking, okay, how can I optimize this? Let me ride a bike. A little bit faster. And then, you know, a couple years later, you're able to work elsewhere. You also divvy that up.

So what, when, I mean, how did you learn how to manage money when it started to come in in abundance, really, and more and more because you grew up, you know, five cents at a time with newspapers to six and seven figures and beyond. How did you handle it? Like, how did you manage it, handle it, and not be scarce with it still, but think abundantly? Or was there a period of still scarcity? 'Cause you're like, I don't know if this is gonna keep coming in, so...

I think I was very lucky that everything came like one step at a time. You know, from that one newspaper job to getting a part-time job, to getting a full-time job, to streaming to... I feel like, yeah, everything was incremental throughout my whole life. so I've been able to have a bit of an adjustment period. When I started making like pretty good money, I mean, I'm very lucky. My dad raised me well. He like got me a bank account at like 13. Even if there's not much in it, it's like, this is your bank account. This is how much you have. You should have a savings account. You should have a checking. And, you know, rule of thumb, try to save at least this much percentage of your money. so I was always very considerate of these things. No matter how much I made, it's like, I need to be saving at least, let's say, like half of my income. And your. Your spending money should only be like this portion. And having that mindset already going into it allowed me to not spiral too much one way in terms of scarcity or spiral too much one way in terms of. Let me just spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, right? and I also, I try to be very experimental again. I feel like I've learned so much in school, engineering, but experimental in the sense that I would experiment on spending on different things. If I spend a lot more on a video, what does that return look like? If I invest in myself in terms of my health, if I get a trainer, if I get if I invest more in like nutrition, therapy, what are the things where I get the most return and that are actually very helpful? And some things don't make that large of a difference. Like frankly, as much as I love clothes and fashion, it's like some shirts, if it's good quality, it could be $50. If it's $500, is it gonna make that much of a difference? No. But honestly, leveling up with like therapy, that was huge.

Nutrition, health, yeah.

My therapist, is like, yeah, he's honestly like partially a life coach. Very, very worthwhile. Any sort of health investment I've made, most investments in myself, I feel, paid off a lot. So I started prioritizing that, investments in that in my business. And I feel like looking at it very holistically is what helped me.

That's beautiful. I love that. Investing in yourself is never a bad investment.

1000%. And honestly, just try stuff. Experiment. Experiment almost like very considerably and safely. Like, I'm going to try this intentionally and I will jot down how it goes. Should I keep doing it? Yes. No.

Yeah, right. I got a few final questions for you. This has been fascinating, Ammon. I appreciate you.

Oh, so by the way, feel free to ask me anything about like the streaming space. I love talking to people who have no idea what it's about. So if you have any weird questions.

I'll see what I can come up with. Yeah, I'm curious. I wanted to ask you first about how to navigate relationships while being a streamer, while being a big personality, live streaming all day. You've got a massive community watching you constantly. Subscribe to everywhere. How do you build Relationships with friends and intimate relationships over the last 10 years so that you can create harmony in relationships and not stress.

I mean, it's for sure a learning process and frankly, just like anything else that's worthwhile, good friendships and relationships require effort. Like regular communication, time with each other, Um, and I think during perhaps the most like successful parts of my life, I mean, people say it a lot, but it can also be the loneliest. But now when I feel successful because I spend so much time building out these relationships, I can try to, like, maximize both at once. But you really, really need to be intentional with those things. Otherwise, it's hard to have those deep, deep relationships.

And how do you manage a intimate relationship with, you know, working nonstop and having this big audience and, I don't know, people being jealous or not? Like, how do you manage that?

I think compartmentalizing time is helpful, you know? You're like, if I want to manage these relationships that mean a lot to me, I need to create time and space for them, especially with any friends that I have that aren't in the public eye. It's about having that conversation of like, are you comfortable being in these things or not?

Like in the live streams, you mean?

Yeah, anything in vlogs, in photos. I think sometimes people can be a little bit worried, obviously, or unsure. because it's such a new space and it's very easy living in LA you'll always meet people who are a little bit too excited to be in front of the camera and you can tell maybe that's their priority in life. Yeah, so I think communication has helped me, I mean it's just the key to making sure that you're on the same page with anyone and ultimately creating very specific times when I'm on, I'm Pokimane, I'm working, I'm doing whatever. and very specific times when I'm off. And if I get along really well with someone when I'm just being me, there's no cameras, no nothing, no nothing to benefit from. And we develop a beautiful friendship relationship based off of that. That's how I know I can carry that into my public life if they're comfortable with it.

Sure, sure. Do you feel pretty safe in LA? Like as a street, you mentioned before, like the streaming world's like a different type of I wouldn't say crazy, but fanatics, right? Like if people, if they're watching you six, ten hours a day, they're probably really into you in certain ways and get to feel like they get to know you and you're their best friend and all these things.

It gets parasocial sometimes.

Parasocial?

Yeah, that's the term we use quite a bit.

What does that mean?

It just means when people... It's a one-sided relationship essentially. If someone is watching you for eight hours a day, It's easy for them to feel close to you, but you don't know them at all. So they might come up to you like, oh my god, hey, act like you're best friends. You're like, you,'re a stranger to me. So it's such an interesting- Does that.

Happen a lot for you? It's different in LA, 'cause there's celebrities everywhere and people are more like, chill about it.

Luckily, I feel like, general understanding and yeah. Knowledge or education around these parasocial relationships has gotten a lot better. So even from, like, the viewers perspective, they're like, oh, we need to be considerate of these things. We need to approach people respectfully. So nowadays, to me, people are really, really nice.

That's good.

Yeah. I have had some, like, security concerns. People always want to find out where you live, what you're doing, who you're with, these kinds of things. But frankly, the less that I stream, again, a very connected long format type of content, the less of these issues I have, and I've tried very, very hard. I'm eight years into this. I've set those boundaries publicly. I figured out, what are the things and topics that I should avoid so that people don't get too curious? What are things that you keep to yourself? I don't even like, I can't post photos like outside of my window.

To show anything.

It's just a wall. Yeah. Sometimes I'll move in somewhere and I'll like paint the place differently. I'll get things removed, things changed to make sure it doesn't match anything online. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's been quite the learning experience just to avoid any sort of security concerns. Yeah.

Wow. What is the psychology of being really great on Twitch and live streaming. Like, what is the psychology to make someone a great streamer to build a bigger audience?

I think, I mean, I hate to say, but we really are all people pleasers to some degree. We are. We just want, like, that positive viewer reaction and feedback loop, especially with the chat. I think people who learn quickly adapt are great because it's interesting. You can look at your chat as like constant feedback. And if you take that in properly, you optimize how you are as a streamer, how you talk, what you say, what you do, what do people react positively to? So I would say that and people who just Have a big personality and like to talk. I mean, you have to talk the whole time, basically. Yeah.

Do those things. Yeah. Do those things and you have an opportunity and chance. That's amazing. A couple final questions for you. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths question. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. I'm gonna put this in your context. Twitch and streaming is still massive. 100 years away, but it's your last day on Earth.

And.

You have done and created everything you want to create in your life. You've had the life of your dreams. You've accomplished everything.

I sure hope so.

Relationships, family, fun, all these different things you've had. But for whatever reason, all the content you've ever created no one has access to anymore. It has to go to the next place wherever you go after we. We die. But you get one final live stream and this piece of content will stay in this world forever. And you only get to share three lessons that you've learned from your life. If you could imagine this future scenario, what would be those three lessons or what I like to call three truths that you would share if you were streaming live your final time and there was no other content to watch a review.

The first thing I would say is that I feel like compassion is the key to humanity. So cultivate that, treasure it, utilize it as much as you can. Put yourself in other people's shoes. Talk to other people all the time. No one is below or above anyone else. We all lead such cool, unique, individual lives, right? That's such a beautiful thing. And something that I find a little bit difficult about the internet is that sometimes it removes that humanity. Like, oh, you're just a person. You're one sentence. You're one comment. You're one 15-second clip. But everyone you encounter online or in person, have like a whole backstory to them. And that is what really informs their behaviors, good or bad or whatever, right? I think that's just something that's good to keep in mind. Um, two, I'd probably say something about gratitude. Another thing that I feel requires a lot of cultivating Because we live in a really, really cool day and age. We have access to so much. But sometimes I feel like as humans we weren't meant to. It's like these neurons start like firing a little bit too much, your brain becomes a little bit fried, and it's easy to lose sight of things. And gratitude above all else is what's gonna keep you grounded. and maintaining some type of contentment no matter what life you lead. And lastly, I just hope everybody's happy and healthy and has a good laugh and, like, take care of myself. It'll be so hard. You're like, I'm gonna disappear. This is the last thing I can say. Yeah, honestly, at the end of my stream, I like to just wish everyone well. Like, drink some water, go for a walk, do something good for yourself today. Take care, I'll see you in the next one. Yeah. And then never come back. Really, I mean, you can go on and on about deep lessons and this and that, but take care of yourself and Tend to the garden you can touch. The people around you that you see, treat them well. You don't have to worry about every problem in the world. Just help those that you can help. Take care of each other, take care of yourself. Yeah.

You sound like a true life coach. I like it. It sounds like you've got a lot of wisdom for your youth.

All the mantras I have in my journals.

Exactly. I've got another final question for you and I want to see where we should follow you and support you, how we can support you in a second. But I want to acknowledge you for a moment because I think it's really hard when you're in the public eye as a young age and have a lot of audience and have a lot of pressure, a lot of great stuff happening, but also some challenges to face, money, all these different things that you just feel like you're in a very solid place right now. and I acknowledge you for acknowledging that you might have different breakdowns in your past and saying, what can I do to pause and get some support and go to therapy, get coaching, get advice? I really acknowledge you for that because I think it's hard for anyone to want to go to therapy. I've been doing it for years.

I love it.

It brings me a lot of peace. Especially the youth, I think it's hard to acknowledge when, Hey, I'm not doing so well. I've got some breakdown. Let me get some support here. So I really acknowledge you for doing that and talking about it. And I also acknowledge you for reinventing yourself to do what fills you up. Not just what makes me the most money or what other people want me to do, but what also fills you up. So I really am inspired that that's where you're at in this stage of your life and acknowledge you for that.

Thank you so much. You are an amazing listener and conversationalist. I feel like you really just summarized the last year of my life.

That's good.

Thank you so much.

How, before I ask the final question, how can we follow you, support you, where are you gonna be hanging out the most online?

I've been having a lot of fun posting random TikToks. Okay. I'm P-O-K-I-P-O-K-I. Poki, that's it. But feel free to look me up anywhere. P-O-K-I-M-A-N-E on Instagram. I like to post day to day. Twitch, if you want to check out some live streams. I read I mean, this is probably my greatest and oddest life skill. When I stream, it doesn't matter how many messages are in chat, I genuinely can read all of them.

Wow. You can game and read.

You can play and- Yes, a little bit, but even if it's going super.

Super fast, you see it all.

Yeah. I mean, you just learned doing something for 10 years. That's probably the just oddest skill that a live streamer has. It's like you can skim books super quickly, but chat messages instead.

Wow.

So that's my most fun way to be like, wow, I can essentially meet or interact with a human being, just like if they tune into my live stream. That's amazing. Yeah, and answer anything. And then YouTube more so for like bigger moments. Uh-huh.

So whatever you're interested in, we'll follow you everywhere. Poke. I appreciate that a lot. Poke everywhere. Make sure you guys follow.

Final question for you. What is your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is someone who is secure in what they find fulfilling and what brings them joy and they pursue that with all their might. But you have to choose to hold on to something when you want to take a breath, right? Just like that, you have to choose to hold on to a relationship. relationship, whatever that might be with your children, with your family, with your parents. You have to make the time and you have to tell the people you.

Love that you love them.

Don't just assume that they know.

You got some wisdom, Bianca.