How To OVERCOME TRAUMA & LET GO Of Your Past To Heal | Laura Berman

There is a story you have that you can't have it, that you don't deserve it, or you can't create it, or it's not possible. And that's where the healing happens, because if you follow those breadcrumbs, you will--.

I think you gotta have a dream.

The School of Greatness.

Really? Yeah. Please welcome Lewis Howes. A year ago, you were on the show, and you came on a week after probably one of the most important moments of your life. can you share that story and what you've learned about thriving through loss and grief as opposed to really going down in the dark place?

Curling up in a ball and dying, which is the other option. So when we last met here, it was basically a week to 10 days after my middle son, Sammy, was tragicly murdered, basically, through fentanyl poisoning. He ordered a something we still don't know because the toxicology reports were all fentanyl. But he ordered something from a drug dealer that found him on Snapchat and delivered it to our house while we were sleeping like a pizza. And he it was Super Bowl Sunday and he asked me to come and talk to him later about an internship he wanted to do because he would have been graduating from high school now. you know, a year ago he was starting to apply to college, and he wanted to do a summer internship to beef up his college application. And I went and did some errands with my youngest son and came back, and my youngest was running into Sammy's room ahead of me to give him some candy we had just gotten while he was out. He had a lollipop or something he wanted to give him, and found him. My son found him first. My youngest, he was gone on the floor. and had died of fentanyl poisoning. So someone had sold him, which is, I mean, it's actually the number one killer of people 18 to 45. And in 2022, someone died of fentanyl poisoning every 15 minutes. I mean, 2021, excuse me, someone died of fentanyl poisoning every 15 minutes. Like it is astronomical what is happening. Oh my gosh. And unfortunately, Sammy was at the beginning of this curve. And we didn't know, I didn't even know about Fentanyl. I sure as poop didn't know that you could get drugs on Snapchat. I didn't know that drug dealers were targeting our kids and sending them colorful menus like you can get one Percocet for $2. We'll deliver it to your house. So anyway, that was, you can imagine, the biggest, deepest, most horrific Nightmare pain that anyone can imagine brought me completely to my knees. And for some reason that night that he died, the police were still in our house. And I was trying to figure out what happened. And I had talked to his best friend who sent me the screenshot that Sammy sent him of the menu. And it had the guy's handle on it. No way. And so I went running to the cops. And I was like, look, go get him. He's right here. And they're like, we're really sorry, Snapchat. Chat won't help us. They won't, they cite privacy laws. They won't give us any information. And if we do target this person, then all they do is just disappear and create a brand new profile. And so, and I remember at the time I said, well, let me order drugs from him right now and you stay. And they said, no, no, you can't do that. We got to bring narcotics. And I was so If I had had my wits about me, which obviously I didn't, I would have insisted and I wish I had.

I knew I had. Yeah.

But I felt so, I was going nuts. My husband was already going nuts. And then I started going nuts, like, what do you mean? What the hell? The kids are gonna die. My kids, someone else is gonna, the first thing I thought of was more kids are gonna die. And my husband, I don't know why he said this, because I wasn't a big personal social media person. post things on social media that were, you know, therapeutic. But I didn't really talk a lot about my own life.

Content about your work. Yeah. Yeah.

And he said, you should post about this and let people know. So I don't, Spirit wrote it. I don't even remember writing it. I don't remember finding the picture of me and Sammy. I just put it out there thinking, okay, maybe one kid won't die if I let parents know. And it was an explosion.

Wow.

And the next thing I knew, I had 10,000 parents, like literally, I had to put them on the Facebook support group, Parents Were Safer Children. I created a group. I was getting called by media, and all I could think, and I didn't want to do it, obviously. And I said to my husband, I don't think I can do this. Like, I'm snotty and crying, and I don't want to put on makeup. He's like, Then don't. And so I didn't. And I went on every show you can think of, because they were all calling me. And I just kept saying to myself, if I do this, at least one kid won't die.

Oh my gosh.

At least one kid won't die. And that was the only justice I wanted. That's all I could think of, is that I don't want another kid to die. And then, so I had already had scheduled with you to come in and do a podcast.

And I think, I can't remember if I heard about the news, or you reached out and said this happened.

No, you heard, because I didn't tell you.

I think my assistant saw it. I saw this on the news or something, and I was like, well, she's not coming in to talk about her book launch that was happening.

That was a podcast launch. So I was launching my podcast. It was due to launch on Valentine's Day.

Oh my gosh.

And I would have canceled it, but I had this all these this team, and they were they'd been working for so long, and I was like, I'm not gonna let this horrible asshole who killed my child take this away, you know? And so, I said, Just let it go for it. I don't know what it's going to look like. And so I kept this interview, because I think you were one of the first interviews I did around the launch. But leading up, in fact, even the day I came in here, I had been on Dr. Phil that morning. So that whole week, I was doing media after media after media about this tragedy. And I had said to myself, okay, on Saturday, I'm going to do this for a week only. 'Cause I could have done it for-- I could still be doing it. I mean, people want to talk about it, right? I'm gonna do this for a week, and just everything that they ask me to do, I'll do. But on Saturday, I am leaving. And I can't believe I had the balls to say this to my poor husband and my youngest, who is still living at home, and said, Listen, I know this is the worst time in all of our lives, but I have to leave you and go into the woods. And I think I said that to you on our interview. I was like, I'm about to go into the woods. and wail my pain, 'cause I knew, I could not, I had to hold it together. Not really for my husband, but for my son. And if I had gone that, as far as I needed to, into the pain, I don't think any of them would have been able to witness it or take it. If it was around them. You needed to go and be with, you know, support in a different way.

Yes.

You know.

And you guys were such a beautiful part in the storm.

I know you were, like, freaked out, 'cause we were talking, we weren't talking about, I mean, we talked about this a little bit, but we were talking about other stuff. And you kept saying, are you sure you wanna do this? And I was like, yes. It's like a respite. And you were so, all of you were so sweet. You were like, you, want some cake? Do you need a hug? You were so nice. And I never forgot it because I could feel your compassion and love. And you also were not, you know, judging the fact that I, you know, like, what the hell are you doing here? But I needed to be. I needed to keep moving forward because I made a decision that week And I don't know why because talking to as many parents who have gone through, you know, who have lost their children, everyone is so different and most don't feel this way. Most people want to die when you lose your child, you know?

What's the feeling like for most people when you lose a child?

I think for most people, you know, every parent, you know, it's our worst nightmare, obviously any parent. The minute I remember each of my children being born and immediately thinking, oh my God, I've never loved anything as much as I love you and you're such a miracle. and then, oh my god, you could die.

You know, there's like that moment.

At any moment, you're so vulnerable, right? Yeah, and then over time, you kind of, it's in the back of your mind, you worry about their safety, but you don't walk around unless you've got a major anxiety disorder. You don't walk around thinking about them dying or really, and people, and I would have said the same thing, oh my god, if one of my children died, you'd have to put me in a home somewhere. I wouldn't be able to keep living, you know? And that's what, I would have probably said the same thing, and with all things, you don't know, until you're in the situation, what you're capable of. But I think for most people, there's so much pain and loss and guilt and overwhelm that they just don't want to live. And also for many people, especially if they, you know, think-- and I don't, but they think that their-- that energy dies, right? To me, I know that we're all energy and energy never dies. It just takes a different form. But a lot of people don't understand that, and so they think when someone dies, they are gone. And not only are they gone, they go somewhere, maybe to heaven or somewhere else, whatever you believe. And so a lot of parents are like, oh, I just want to die.

So I can be with my child. Be with my child, right?

And they're either waiting to die so they stop living, or, God forbid, they do something to assist in the process, or they unconsciously call in a life-threatening illness, right?

They manifest it through their body or they attract something that's not healthy for them.

Yeah, and what was so astounding to me and completely unexpected is I would say three days after he died, it was very quickly, I suddenly had this realization that like, not only am I very clear that I absolutely want to live, not just for my family who still need me, but also because life is so astoundingly fragile. It is such a gift. Any of us hit by a bus, fentanyl poisoning, whatever, any second of any day, I had no idea until the day he died that I only had 16 years with him. And so, Life suddenly became such a, like even it was always a miracle, but I just kept thinking like, it's a fricking miracle that any of us exists. That that sperm and that egg came together, grew, nothing interrupted, that we're still here, that I'm a spirit in this body, that I get to have this body. Like, I'm fricking staying here. And so that was like a very clear decision. And then the next decision was like, okay, There are some specific things I need to do if I'm gonna survive this physically.

Because what do most people do in that situation that you've encountered?

Well, they do what I had done. I mean, as you've learned, as anyone who's lived long enough and grows as they live, has learned that many times in your life you look back and you say, oh, now I see how everything led to this and I'm using all of this in service to that, right? I had had a lot of grief in my life. I had basically shepherded through my mother's, through her death, my father, my spirit mother who was like more of a mother than even my mother was, both my grandmothers. I was there when all of them died. I had been through tremendous amount of grief, but when my mother died, which was probably 10, 11 years before Sammy died, I did what most people do, which I was working like a crazy person. I was launching a show on OWN, I had a radio show, I was like so busy I couldn't lose it because I had too much to do. And I also didn't want to be with the pain, which most of us don't. And also I was someone who, like most of us, lived a lot of time up here either in my intellect or out in woo-woo land, you know? And so I immediately, when she died, moved, you know, to what we now call spiritual bypassing. I tapped it away. I had all these strategies. I found spiritual meaning, which was all very beautiful, but I didn't deal with the pain.

You didn't feel it. You didn't feel it in your nervous system. You didn't allow yourself to shake and shiver and yell or whatever the body needed to do to let it out.

I had to stay with myself, right? And within a year, of her dying. I was 40, no genetic predisposition. I had breast cancer, a very aggressive kind of breast cancer, in the same breast she, her breast cancer started in that ultimately led to her death. And it was aggressive and I had to go through chemo and a mastectomy and it was intense. And boy, I mean that was the journey that led to my quantum love, my book, and a lot of other beautiful things. But I learned that you've got to feel your feelings. If you don't, you're gonna get disease. And so I knew, like, okay, this pain with Sammy multiply by 1,000,000,002 what my pain with my mom's loss was, which was the biggest, most horrible loss.

Sure.

And if I'm gonna survive this, There's no frickin' way I can bypass anything. So that's when I, so I said to my husband and my son, really my husband, I didn't say this to my son, I was like, I don't think I'm gonna make it, like physically. I do not think I will be able to stay alive if I don't do this. And God bless him, he was so kind about it. He didn't even give me a trickle of guilt. He was so wonderful. And he needed me at that time.

He was suffering. He was challenging, right?

And he let me go, and I went into the Redwoods 1440 Multiversity, which is in Scotts Valley near Santa Cruz. I'd done some events there through the years, and they heard, as did everyone else. So they reached out to me and said, We're closed because of COVID But if you want to come, you can just stay on the campus. And so I went, and they had filled the house with blankets and vegan food. They had a framed picture of me and Sammy on the bedside table. They were just, they just made this nest for me.

That's beautiful.

And one of my besties came with me who's masterful at just holding space, and she was my grief concierge. And my days were filled with forest bathing, wailing, bodywork, somatic experiencing therapy, grief yoga, breathwork, just all of it. And I did that for a week straight. It was the longest I had ever left my family.

Wow.

Without it being work. Sure.

Were you in contact or did you disconnect from the world and them?

I made, I actually put it on YouTube. I made for my loved ones at first and then I decided to just compile it and put it on YouTube. I made a video at the end of every day saying where I was, what was happening, how I was feeling, what I experienced, just to give them an update because, you know, all the people in my life who loved me were also suffering. That was the other thing I learned through my mother because I was not someone, I'm always the giver, that's how I stayed safe in my relationships. You gotta need me, right? That was my little hitch. So to suddenly, I realized when my mom was dying, I remember one of her nurses saying to her, 'cause she was like, I was, if you don't let other people help you or give to you, you're actually hurting them 'cause they need to. 'Cause they're in pain too. And I never forgot that. So when this happened, I just kept saying to myself, they need this too. Like they're in pain too, not only because of my pain, because they cared about him and they're having their own experience of what happens.

And they feel helpless if they can't do anything about it, right?

My friends did this amazing thing. The first Friday I came back, they all got together. A lot of them, I had friends from all over the Little groups from all over the country in different parts of times of my life and somehow they all found each other and they showed up on Zoom and they had this little service for me where they each lit a candle and said something and then they continued every single Friday for a year to just show up on Zoom whether and I just needed to show up and whoever could come would come and and they would just be there for me. We would talk about things. Some of my healers would come in. It became known as the love bubble. We still do it every month or so. It was really beautiful, all the ways that love showed up for me. But that week in the Redwoods was the beginning of an amazing and intense healing journey that really taught me that you not only can survive something like this incredible, seemingly unbearable loss, but you actually can thrive through it.

How does someone, what does someone need to do in order to thrive through massive loss, pain, grief?

Well, I'll tell you what I've learned so far. Yes. And I think I'm gonna have a lot more a year from now. But the first thing is, you know, Some of the things I've already said, like you have to let other people support, right? And to be able to receive love.

Why is it so hard for people to receive love and support from others?

I think there are lots of reasons. For me, I was raised in a family where I was more of the caretaker. I was the parentified child. And they're really, my parents were wonderful people, but just not very emotionally mature and had a lot of their own wounds, and they didn't have a capacity for my emotions. And I was very emotional, you know? And so they would either tease me or they would diminish it or like they just didn't, there was not space for that, first of all. Second of all, if I gave to them and took care of them, then I could get my needs met, right? And so I could very easily with my parents, and they made this clear in lots of subtle ways, I could very easily become a burden.

To your parents.

To my parents. And then, and they wouldn't say you're a burden, but they would get mad, they would get rejecting, they would get frustrated. You know, there was, so I was always really careful not to need too much. And I stayed safe and made a lot of crappy relationship decisions from a place of attracting in and being attracted to broken little birds or people that I could take care of. Because the story I had is if you need me, you won't leave me. Which it's signing you up to be in relationships with energy vampires. But I was very aware that I was struggling to receive because I was afraid I was going to be a burden. And I was embarrassed. And I was deep inside, this wasn't conscious, I think I was afraid of being abandoned. Inside them, they would be like, you know. I don't know. I would do that. I don't know why it's so irrational, but I really, so what I did is I just verbalized it to them. I was like, I'm really cringing receiving to you from you because I feel like I'm a burden. I know you're gonna say I'm not and I know you don't think I am, but I'm just adding this feeling so I can release it. And I literally had to force myself cringing to receive their love. And then once I opened to that, I think, you know, this is all, all these things in our lives are divinely ordered. It really was the beginning. Once I was willing to receive another human being's love, I think that was the beginning of what ultimately, which is a huge part of thriving, what ultimately led me to open to receiving God's love.

So other people's love first, then God's love was part of the healing process.

Allowing it. Allowing it because one of the things that happened obviously is I was missing him so much. I needed him so much. I had had spiritual communications with my mom and things. I have a million friends that are mediums and psychics and whatever. But with him, I needed personally. I didn't need a message from him. I needed personally to feel him and to connect with him.

And- How'd you create that?

Well, first, this is related to it, I needed to create a relationship with Spirit. And I didn't even have a name for it. I didn't like the name God or Spirit or Oneness or Love. For many years, I grew up in a very secular family. I was very spiritual when I was little, but they conditioned that and teased that out of me. And then I just decided, none of it is real. And then when I wrote Quantum Love, all during that time after my mother's death, I was rediscovering that spiritual connection. But my relationship with God, or what I now finally have their name, which came to me in a meditation, for me personally, not for everyone, is Holy Oneness. So I would kind of manifest things by putting in an order to the Cosmic Waitress kind of thing. But I didn't have a two-way relationship. First of all, it was a one-way thing, and it wasn't in me and of me. It was somewhere out there.

That's for sure.

And I was freaking pissed when Sammy died.

Mm-.

And like, How could this happen?

Why would you let this happen? Why is this happening?

Right. So I knew that I needed to be able to have conversations with Holy Oneness and understand what was happening. So I used the skills I had already developed for meditating and grounding and opening up my crown chakra and and getting really quiet and setting intentions. And I worked with some amazing healers who I've worked with for years, but then this became the agenda. And so I went into all kinds of agreements that I made early in childhood because I was so like most kids who have imaginary friends and see fairies and see all these things, which by the way, I think are real, right? Because we're taking in 40 billion bits of information into our minds every millisecond. and only consciously processing 2,000 of them because of our five senses. So it's all there. We're just not, little kids are still fresh enough that they can perceive it, right? But I was either shamed or told it wasn't there and it would happen the most at night and I was scared sh*tless because I didn't understand what was happening. I had no context for it. Everyone was telling me it wasn't real, but there it is. So I made an agreement like, this is not real. I don't, you know, and I totally shut down my faith. And so a lot of this healing has been about opening up my faith again. And when I opened up the faith, then I started receiving messages. And I got messages about soul contracts that Sammy and I had together and why he left when he did and what this is all in service to. I started to really, I first felt him just inside my heart. And then I still, I mean, I can feel him right there. It just all started to open up. As I broke open in this pain and called in that grace, then things just started to open more and more. But the crazy thing is that the more I was willing to be in the depth of my pain and stay with it, and feel it, the more I was able to connect out there. And you, you know, I always thought it was the opposite, like go beyond bodily concerns, you know, a lot of this past spiritual teaching, at least in the past, was about, you know, Leave your body. Leave your body. You're not your body. You shouldn't worry about your body. You know, it's actually the opposite. Because our body, it turns out, is the bridge to our soul. And so when you are fully embodied, that is when you can really connect, which seems so counterintuitive. But you can't really be in your body unless you're willing to be with the pain that you left your body not to feel.

Right, right, right. Disconnected with. Yeah.

And so, you know, on social media, this was the other crazy thing, because I told you I wasn't really, you know, a public with my personal life. But I just started, because so many people were wanting to know my journey, I was like, all right, you can watch me beat the out of a pillow to get out my anger. OK, I'll sit here and ball and show you that you can move this and it'll take three to five minutes and then you'll be lighter and free. And so I started modeling that, which held me accountable in some ways. And I just made it at first For the first several months, it was constant. And then over time, it grew to several times a day. And I would say now, I make it a point usually at least once a day, and I can tell you my process if you want, of just going into my body, scanning it, letting the energy out. Because that's what emotions are, energy and motion, emotion, right? Letting that release.

How do you let it release?

By feeling it, right? So what I do is I ground first because we're energetic beings that we have to sort of otherwise we're not really in our bodies, right? So the way I get there is I just like pull light and it's always a different color, often indicative of what I'm needing in that moment or that day. And I take really deep breaths. The whole process takes like 10 minutes. I take really deep breaths and imagine light flowing in with the in-breath through my whole, every cell bathed in that light. And as I breathe out, it flows out my tailbone, grounding like deep, deep roots into the earth. So before I came on here, and depending on your reach, like before I came here today, I did this, and I, you know, you have a huge audience. So my reach is going to be super wide. So I made my, you know, like a tree. Your roots have to be twice the width of your reach.

Mm-.

Right? So depending on where you are and what you're doing, you ground for that. But for this feeling part, I ground, and then you just do a really gentle body scan. So you just gently move your awareness slowly, like a copy machine moving really, really slowly, and then. you just wait until you notice sensation. And usually- It's in the chest or.

The stomach or the throat or, yeah.

And for me with grief, it's like, right, sometimes it's in other places, but it's usually right here. But wherever it is, and then I just stay with it. I'm not telling myself stories about it. I'm not trying to figure out what it is.

You just feel it and you breathe and experience it.

I just put all of my conscious awareness on it. That's it, with no expectation other than it's like sitting next to a friend holding their hand and not saying anything.

And what happens when you do that?

And then as soon as you do that, then you're also softening and like you've made a decision with yourself to let your body take the lead.

Kind of surrender your body, relax your body.

Yeah, and you surrender your mind.

Uh-huh.

And you're just, you're not making any decisions, you're following your body. Just for those 10 minutes. And if you just make that decision and put all of your conscious awareness, the next thing you know, you will notice your body wants to do something. Sometimes I would be on all fours, almost giving birth and moaning. Sometimes a lot of the time, I just need to ball or scream into a pillow or beat the s*** out of some pillows with a baseball bat. Like whatever my body wants to do, I just move out of the driver's seat and let it release. And it takes just a few minutes. And this is why people are so scared because they imagine, and we're taught this in a way, we think because it seems so huge, we think if I let myself feel that, I'm never going to come back. I'm not going to be able to function. It's going to take me away. It's going to carry me away. But it's actually the opposite. And it's like a pressure valve. You're just constantly releasing. And if I don't do it, I've noticed that within three days, I'm immobilized.

You're tense, you're stuck, you're emotionally drained.

Yeah, I'm immobilized. I just don't feel like doing anything.

You're depressed. I'm depressed. Exactly. If we don't release the emotions, those types of anxious thoughts, depressed thoughts, stress thoughts occur. Which manifest in our bodies.

Physical trauma. And so you have to allow yourself, people get scared of feelings, but it's really physical, right? You're not even thinking, because for me, I'd be like, you know, go into all the thoughts around it.

No.

You turn that part off.

I'm curious your thoughts on this. The difference between feeling your feelings versus letting your feelings consume you in a dramatic way, versus numbing your feelings.

Numbing your feelings is the easiest one, right? Numbing your feelings is what most of us do, either with substances or technology or distractions or, you know, just repression, right? Because all of us are taught and believe that it will carry us away. Like, if I really let it out, and it's like a, a little scary monster in the basement. You don't want to look there. You don't want to go there. So you just push it back there. And then unfortunately, whether you want to or not, you're acting from those places. So when you're not allowing them to be with you, those parts of you that are feeling that start driving the bus. And that's why all of a sudden you'll get triggered or you'll react to something or you're making bad decisions that you wouldn't otherwise make. because there are these parts of you that are like, you know, be with me, feel me, let me, you know, integrate with you.

If you suppress them or numb them, they're gonna keep coming up some way.

Oh, they do, they don't go away. And they make you sick.

And what happens if you let your feelings consume you? You're very dramatic, you're overly dramatic towards your feelings. You're feeling them so much that you're lashing out on the world or you're beating yourself up or reactive to other people.

Yeah, that's usually not authentically feeling your feelings.

What is that?

That is the other end of the spectrum of not being conscious, right? So someone like that has learned that the only way they get comfort is A, outside themselves, and B, by flashing lights and sirens. Like, I have to be so loud and big They learn that early to get my needs met.

To get attention or to get sympathy.

The stream of that is someone with, let's say, Munchausen syndrome, that disorder where somebody fabricates or takes weird things to make themselves sick so that they can go to the hospital.

Get attention.

And get attention and nurturing. What it is is a deep, dysfunctional, unmet need for nurturing and care. that you never learned a healthy way of, first of all, being with yourself.

It's taking care of yourself.

Yes.

Being the adult to the child within you.

Yes, yes. And people that do that have no idea how to self-soothe, never learned, and are just like grasping around outside themselves hoping that someone will make it better for them, which never works. Right.

The healthier version is to feel your feelings, right? To feel them, to experience it, and then let them go eventually.

Yeah, and they go. I swear to you, if you do this, it will take maybe five to 10 minutes, and then you feel lighter, clearer. You don't feel like you still have all that stuff in you. You feel released.

Yeah, you look very light.

Yeah, I am.

Your energy is very relaxed and obviously it was like the week after this happened last time, but you look like an emotional weight is lifted off of your energy, off your body, off your face. You look younger, you look healthier, you just, there's an aura and energy about you that is calm.

Thank you, yeah I am. And part of that, which is the other way that this can be an opportunity to thrive, is that I'm not scared of anything anymore.

I mean, you go through the biggest fear, you experience your biggest fear.

Right, the worst thing that could ever happen happened. So what is there to be afraid of? I'm not afraid of anything. And for me, I was never really afraid of physical stuff, like getting, you know, something happening to me physically. I was more in fear around, you know, as a recovering codependent, around relationships or really boundaries. It was really hard for me to hold boundaries. I was always worried about being a burden or hurting someone or offending someone or someone rejecting or someone judging or whatever. Or even in my relationships, you know, I just didn't ever have the practice. I was never allowed boundaries growing up. So obviously I'd been working on it for many years, you know, but it was always like I had to move beyond the fear to set the boundary. You know, and I would avoid a lot of conversations just because like it's.

Not worth-- To keep the peace.

Yeah, it's not worth it. I'd rather just let this roll off my back, which it really wasn't rolling off my back.

Yeah, you were numbing or stuffing or whatever.

Yeah, or just like, eh. But now, I'm incapable of tolerating anything that I don't want to tolerate.

Right.

Like I literally, even if I wanted to, I don't know, like I think I would crawl out of my skin.

It's easy for you to say no to things. You're not abandoning yourself. If someone wants you to do something you don't feel comfortable doing, all that stuff.

Or like even, I remember I was going somewhere not long ago to do a show in New York, and I would have never had the balls to do this before. And they were gonna pay for my travel. And none of these shows, you know.

They pay... For you to speak or...

No, like to be on the show.

Like to be on the talk show.

Yeah, talk show. I'm trying to remember, oh it was the Nick Cannon Show. And I was going there and they were, you know, they make your flight, whatever. And they're like, when do you want to leave? I was like, okay. I just want to, I just need to, since I'm coming in and you know, and I need to be there in 24 hours, I have come to a point where I have to be really careful with my energy. And I want to show up as my best self on your show. So I need to fly at this time and fly business.

Yeah, of course. I've never had the boss tell me.

You'Ve never said that. No, I would have upgraded myself. I would have, and you know, they don't normally pay for business these shows, you know?

But you're like, the only way I can do it is if this happens otherwise...

I would have been like, oh my god, they're gonna say no. They're not gonna really want me to come on. They were so gracious about it. So things like that, but also in my personal relationships, like things even with my partner that my husband where I would have been like, oh it's not worth it. Or something I knew that was gonna maybe be a hitch or a difficult conversation or something that was gonna be an issue that I wanted to bring up, I would like procrastinate bringing it up because I didn't want to deal with whatever it was.

It's just something on your mind, you're talking about it right away.

And I'm just like, listen, I have a story that you may have a bad reaction, so I'm scared to bring this up, but I'm just gonna bring it up. Or whatever it is with my friendships too. So most of my friendships, and certainly my, God bless my husband, because He has risen to the occasion. And I said to him, he said, you know, we're always gonna stay together. We're gonna be okay through this. And I agreed. But I said, you know, coming out the other end of this, I can already feel I'm gonna be a different person. So you're gonna have to decide.

To come on board or-- yeah.

And he has, every step of the way. And I, you know, don't-- I have changed a lot.

Mm-. Yeah, I can tell.

Yeah.

From my personal experience and a lot of people that I've been around and known, for whatever reason, it seems like it takes some massive loss, near-death experience, traumatic breakup of something we're so afraid of happening in order for us to transform, to change, to grow, to let go of these things we've been holding on to for decades, potentially, that hold us back from our most authentic selves, our highest sense of love, healing the things that we've been holding on to. Do you think you'd be able to get to this place without this type of grief or a loss in your life?

I don't know. I call those things AFGEs, another growth experience. And Lord knows I've had a lot of them. And they do, what they do is they break you apart so majorly that your Ego at least for the moment not that it ever goes away just nor should it but it sort of Disappear, you know, it just disintegrates and so all your yeah, it chatters so all your defenses Shattered with it and that's what allows the transformation and I do feel and I learned this, you know, to a certain extent with my mom once I got breast cancer that the universe holy oneness, you know, taps scratches at the door and you don't listen and knocks and you don't listen, bangs and you don't listen. They're like, okay, we're tearing down the whole house. And then you listen. That's so true. And so I have said multiple times, like, okay, I am done. I don't need any other, I am willing to awaken, I am willing to do what it takes, I don't need any other traumas or dramas or devastations. And the other cool part is that So, I think of awakening in three strains.

Okay, tell me.

So, one is those few who spontaneously awakened, you know, the burning bush, right? Or Eckhart Tolle, who says he was sitting on a bench and he awakened, right? You know, like that.

So, it's very rare.

Right, that's very rare.

I just noticed something and it woke me up.

Yeah, and then there's a huge swath who awakened through the AFGH, who awakened through tragedy, trauma, that broke them apart enough so that they were open to that awakening. But there is a third strain now, which is really exciting, which is happening, you know, all the prophets and the astrologers and the healers have been talking about this idea of ascension, right? You've heard this term, right?

Sure.

What's happening now is The planets have not been aligned this way since the Revolutionary War. So the way the planets are aligned, the way the poles are shifting, the way the solar flares that you can see on the NASA website are coming in, what is happening with the Schumann resonance of the Earth, the electromagnetic fields of the Earth, this is really cool, has drastically risen. Now think about it, we are all energy. and our energy is constantly fluctuating. Each of us has an energetic frequency, right? And that frequency is set, it's changing constantly in intensity and vibration based on what we're feeling mostly, right? This is one of the premises that I teach in Quantum Love. And you and I, even to even be in each other's orbit, are vibrating in harmony, but right now we are matching each other's vibrations.

Right?

But all of us, Mother Earth does not ever match us. We always match Mother Earth. We always match the Earth. That's why if you want to raise your frequency or you're struggling in your.

Life... Go to nature.

Because it will not match you. You end up matching it by the time you're done with that hike, right? Or that moment or that forest bath. So what has happened now is that the frequency of the Earth has drastically risen for the first time in thousands of years. What's this called?

The Schumann.

The Schumann resonance. Schumann resonance, I haven't heard of this yet. Yeah, it's really cool. I geeked out and went, I've gone all the way down the rabbit hole. You can go to the NASA website, you can go, I mean, there's so many cool things happening. The higher your frequency, the more you can manifest, the more powerful you are, the more joy you feel. So joy and bliss is the highest possible frequency. shame and guilt lowest possible frequency.

Right?

And that's really one of the secrets behind the secret is that if you want to manifest something that makes you feel joyful and alive but you're living in guilt and shame, you can write yourself all the million dollar checks you want and it's not going to happen.

You've got to learn to heal the shame, the guilt.

Yes. And so what happens in order to raise your frequency, you have to heal. What is happening now is that the Earth's frequency has drastically risen. We have no choice but to match it. And as we match it, all our sh*t's coming up to heal. That's what's happening in the world right now. That's why we see so much chaos and darkness and craziness.

It's all coming out.

It's all coming out. But the cool part is that's the third strain of ascension. that countless people are awakening now, either doing the healing to awaken because they're and the symptoms, the ascension symptoms, because literally our physical bodies are having to adjust to such a high frequency. People are reporting sleeplessness, buzzing in their ears, heart palpitations, you know, with no real understand, like physical symptoms. Food they liked before that they know, inability to drink, you know, alcohol where they could before and loved their margarita now, you know, they feel ill if they drink one.

Right.

You know, there's so many changes happening. So there's a huge proportion of people that are awakening without having to go through an AFGE, but they are gonna have to face their.

Yeah, my therapist talks about, you know, healing is not a one-time event. It's a journey. It's a you went through your week-long, let's call it transformation in the woods, right? Where you got to really go deep and dive in deep on a lot of these different things and start the process of releasing. But then you were like, every week I was doing something where I allowed people to support me and I was processing, and if something comes up on a daily basis, I'm still processing, right? It's not like it's over.

Oh, no, that was just my initiation that week. That was just the beginning. And I do think it saved my life because I went so hard, fast and deep, deeper than I've ever gone in my life. I mean, I was literally in labor of pain. Like I was rocking back and forth on the floor, on all fours, in so much physical pain, wailing, you know, like just climbing into the arms of the mother tree every day. The redwood far-- like it was so, So deep and intense and painful, but I started to feel the very beginnings of release. And so that was once you start doing this.

It gives you some hope probably.

It gives you some hope and it gives you some tools. So then I just had to keep doing it in order to function.

What do you think wouldn't have happened if you didn't go all the way into the belly of the beast?

I think I would be dead now.

Really? Yeah.

I think I either would have stopped wanting to live or I would have gotten some horrible illness. Yeah, I don't think, and I certainly wouldn't be like this. I would be, you know, I talked to so many parents, and I hear from so many parents, I heard from a woman the other day, and it broke my heart that said that her child died 17 years ago, and she still can't walk by his room. She has never touched it.

Oh my goodness.

And I'm like, to live with that degree of pain how do you live?

And like you said, it's near impossible to manifest abundance when you're in a state of shame, guilt, sadness, regret, resentfulness, anger. It's really hard to create something or manifest what you want to create your dreams, to have the relationship. Yeah, you're just stuck in the past.

You're just stuck in the pain and the guilt and the self-blame which I definitely I mean, I'm done with that part, thank God. But I spent a lot of time there. You know, your child doesn't die and you don't, you know, no one's child dies and they don't feel guilty. I mean, I went over every minute of that kid's life about what I could have done differently that might have changed the dominoes.

What does self-blame do to someone and how do they get out of that?

Self-blame is the lowest possible guilt. Shame is the lowest frequency and then guilt. Right? And self-blame is basically guilt and shame. Guilt is you blame yourself for something you did or didn't do. Shame is you are inherently a bad person. I'm bad. Yes. Or evil or whatever story you want to give or inept or whatever story you want to give yourself, but that you are inherently that versus I feel bad that I'm this. And there's a very fine line between the two, right? Most of us are feeling, that's why we say guilt and shame, because they're, you know, so close. So for me, what happened? And self-blame is... And self-blame is guilt and shame, right? Self-blame is it's my fault that this happened. I'm either a horrible person that deserves this or a horrible mother, or that's shame, or I shoulda, woulda, coulda and didn't, and it's my fault.

And I don't deserve this in life. I don't deserve this. I shouldn't, yeah.

It's unbelievably painful. It's immobilizing. Like you said, it's impossible to create from that place, to create healing, to create movement, to create the life you want, to manifest, to do anything. And so that, to me, is the first, really in grief in general, as you start to heal or any kind of major, and by grief, I mean the whole freaking world is grieving right now, either from lost of death to COVID or post-COVID symptoms or loss of jobs or loss of relationships or death of someone, you know, everyone in the world is grieving right now because we're all facing our shit. So, and all this crazy stuff has been happening. You can't move over it. You can't move around it or under it. Like the only way to heal is to go through it and to go all the way into the belly of that beast. And for me, It was really, none of my friends or healers, because I'm just so lucky that I have these beautiful souls in my life who know not to try to take my pain away, right? Because what we like to do with someone feeling, no, you didn't do it. You're a wonderful mother. You didn't do anything wrong. Or they could have said, well, yeah, you kind of sucked that you didn't, right? They would have never said that. They didn't do either of those things, but allowed me to just feel it and process it. And then what really, I think, because as I was allowed to really put it on the table and look at it, well, if I hadn't moved to LA, well, actually these problems were starting back. I could see all the things I could have done differently, but I also became aware, and I think this is one of the keys to releasing guilt and shame, is that every step of the way, my intention was love, support, and protection. Every decision I made from him, from the moment for him, from the moment he was born. And I've said this to my kids since they were little. Anything I do is coming from a place of love and good intentions, sometimes unconscious wounds that I don't realize I have. And my oldest son, who's now 25, we've processed a lot of the things that I screwed up. And it's been a really big with him. We've been able to have those conversations. I know that and I was able to say, okay, even though I could have, would have, should have, and maybe that would have changed the dominoes that fell, I never ever intended this to happen. Every decision I made was with this safety and protection and well-being in mind. So that helped on a practical level. But on a spiritual, emotional level, what really helped was connecting with Him.

Spiritually.

Spiritually. And getting the very clear and holy oneness and getting the very clear message, We signed up for this.

For life.

For life. And we signed up before we came here, which I already knew. I mean, I believe with every cell in my body that we, energy never dies. We're living, we come back as many times as we want. and we come here to raise others up and to serve our purpose, but also to do our own work. And, you know, that we make these agreements. We're in these soul groups, right? We make these, okay, I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna be your kid, you're gonna be my kid.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I knew that intellectually, but what I got as I connected with him more deeply was we agreed, and this is what I will say of any parent, not just me, who has lost a child. And I don't mean this to toot my own horn because I'm not at all alone in this, but you have to be such a spectacularly strong and special soul to sign up to love a child that's gonna die.

Oh.

Like to sign up for that. You know, not a lot of people want to sign up for that. Not a lot of souls want to sign up for that. And for whatever reason, I did. And I agreed to do that, and he did. And he was, and it also helped me to understand and to let him go that because what he took was pure fentanyl, which he never intended to take, fentanyl is 30 times more powerful than morphine and three times more addictive than heroin.

Wow.

So had he been able to be revived, or survive, he would have been a heroin addict times three and would have been fighting addiction his entire life. And I hadn't even thought of that, but what he said to me was, When I took that, I could no longer serve my life's purpose.

Wow.

Because it had shifted me off the trajectory so drastically that I was not going to be able to do my purpose here, but I can with your help from the other side.

Oh, my goodness. It's interesting because my producer, one of our producers, he put a note in here before and I'll just read it. He said, I've lost four friends to fentanyl-related overdoses from designer drugs. And he said, these people weren't junkies or heroin users. They were either taking recreational party drugs or trying to nurse mental wounds with Xanax or something similar. And it just seems like, A lot of people are doing this. A lot of people are trying these things recreationally to say, oh, this is fun. It's going to make me feel something. Or, I've got some anxiety or stress or mental wound that I'm trying to either numb or go up or give myself some relief, and then tragedy happens.

Yes. And I will say, I don't even like calling it an overdose, because an overdose is you intentionally take too much of a drug.

This could be one or two.

This is not an overdose. This is poisoning. It's murder, because none of these people intended, knew they were taking pills.

They were trying to die. Right.

The reason the drug dealers, what happens is it's a synthetic opioid that's made in China. It can no longer come in directly to the U.S. So it comes into Mexico. The cartels in their laboratories package it. They look identical. to Xanax, Percocet, they put it in Coke, they put it in everything.

Why would they sell a drug that's gonna kill people?

Because if it doesn't kill you, it makes an amazing customer. And it's unbelievably cheap.

And it's addictive.

And it's unbelievably addictive. And they don't care if they kill you.

And... Don't they want the repeat customer though?

Yeah, they want the repeat customer.

But if they kill you, they don't.

Get your money anymore.

Yeah.

And the public education hasn't caught up with the reality of how dangerous this is, that if you take anything that doesn't come from a prescription bottle with your name on it, you are courting death.

Oh, wow.

And I met this mother who her son had dental surgery during COVID and he was in a ton of pain, but the dentist, because of their insurance, couldn't see him for three weeks. His friend gave him a Percocet to take the edge off his pain and he died.

Come on.

I'm serious. It is insane how prevalent this is.

That's sad.

And our poor babies and young adults are literally dropping like flies. And nothing is happening both on social media, which is the main vehicle, but I mean, I, this is the other thing that has happened over this past year. I can't do it because my energy is not around activism, it's around healing. and grace. My husband has found so much healing in the activism. And so I give him most of the credit. But we were just given an award by the Organization for Social Media Safety that they named the Sammy Chapman Award in social media safety advocacy.

Oh, that's beautiful.

And he has been working to push legislation that is going to require that social media companies where children are allow at least parent monitoring software, which Snapchat does not.

No.

But if they did, you get pinged. I met another woman who killed himself because of social bullying on Snapchat. That was so horrific. And the minute bullying or drugs or anything conversation comes up, 90 with the statistics show that 90% of kids, fifth grade and up, are talking about drugs with each other online. The minute that, like if I had that software, the minute Sammy got in touch or that drug dealer and he went to order those drugs, I would have known. Right. So there's a lot of advocacy needed both in terms of protecting it, but also in terms of stopping, because now with the border as loose as it is, there's literally, the Border Patrol just reported that they confiscated in one Just what they caught in one person, enough fentanyl to kill everyone in the United States. Oh my gosh.

So it is coming in en masse.

And it is definitely gonna get worse before it gets better. Yeah, don't take recreational drugs, that's what I would say. They're putting it even in cannabis. So if you're in a state where it's legal, go to the dispensary and obviously it won't be there. But do not get anything from a dealer or from any friend who's gotten.

It from a dealer. No. if you could give yourself advice 10 years ago, you know, just about your life or what you knew was going to happen or you wasn't sure, but if you just go back and give yourself advice, what would you say from all the lessons you've learned now? Run!

No, not really. I am glad I did not know what was coming. I don't know, maybe I could have changed the trajectory, but even having lost Sammy, which I Which is weird to say, because I would do anything to have him back. I wouldn't change it also, if that makes sense.

Sure.

I would change him being here, for sure, in physical form. I would change that. But I would not change what I've learned, or what I've released, or what I've healed, or the insane power that I've stepped into for anything.

Yeah.

I'm very grateful for it.

Let's say, let's imagine a month before his passing, where were you on the scale of self-love or a year before, let's just say within the last couple of years before he passed, where were you personally on the scale of self-love? One being you had no love or confidence or care for yourself, 10 being you loved yourself, you're full of joy, light, not many things phased you. Where were you on that scale?

I would say I was probably a six or seven.

Six or seven?

I'd done a lot of work by then. And thank God I had, 'cause I also would never have survived this if I hadn't, right? 'Cause I had the baseline of those tools.

Yes. Where are you now?

15.

Wow. That's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, the things that used to A year ago, like issues, especially as a woman getting older in society, and someone who had had, you know, when Oprah was around this huge stage.

Because you've been on her show a bunch, right?

Yeah, and I had my two shows on her network and a radio show on her, you know, for years, right? And then I got breast cancer, and then Oprah ended, and the shows ended, and then there were several years and I would say kind of leading into the year before his death, where I was struggling with a set, like, am I even relevant anymore? Does anyone even want to hear from me anymore?

So because you'd been in multiple New York Times bestseller on Oprah a bunch, had your own show on her network, radio, all these different things, but then after a few years of those things not happening.

Yeah, because I was being told, like I remember listening to an agent and a production company, and they were looking, they were talking, they were planning a show with me, And somehow the production company didn't realize that or forgot or something that I was on the line. It wasn't like we hid that I was on the line.

Oh, you were on a conference call? Yeah.

They said, We're gonna need to get a young, hot co-host.

No way. Yeah.

And then I went and met with this agent another time. This was right out, like, two years ago. And he basically said the same thing. And I was like, okay. The part of me that struggles with body image and, you know, a woman getting older in society was like, okay, I'm not relevant anymore. I'm a crone. I hate that word. But, like, I'm not hot anymore. I'm not relevant anymore. No one wants to hear from me anymore. They want that hot booty shaker that's talking about sex and love by showing her breasts and they don't want me. You know, I'm not gonna show my breasts and I'm not interested in that. Right. No one's interested in what I have to say. Like I started to have those feelings.

After decades of success and results.

And because I was struggling to find success. I mean I was struggling to get a foothold again. No one wanted to give me a platform and I hadn't really played with social media.

Building your own platform.

Yeah because I had always had this huge platform, so I didn't bother with it. So I was kind of behind the eight with that too.

Everyone always wanted you to come speak, but then it was kind of less at that time.

Yes. And so, so you had to deal.

With this identity crisis.

I was having a little bit of an identity crisis, and I was feeling like, where's the next hill that I want to climb? And I was also feeling like maybe there wasn't another hill. And I was not, maybe your best.

Years were behind you. Wow.

And I was also feeling like maybe I wasn't feeling creative inspiration. really at all. And I would say probably in the last three months, really, it's only been in the last three months, I'm on fire.

That's cool.

I was just talking to a girlfriend the other day and I was telling her this and she says, yeah, isn't it hard when your creative inspiration wanes and you worry it's never gonna come back? I was like, I wasn't worried. I just was trying to get to a place of acceptance that it was gone. But the fact that it's here, Now it's so amazing and delicious and I'm having so much fun. I mean for the first six months, I could barely, I literally took a year off from work or from creating anything or thinking about the next thing or doing anything. And it was after that huge pause of just focusing on healing and not worrying about anything else that I was finally, I could do one thing a week and I'd be floored. I couldn't barely leave the house. It was just so hard, I would get so exhausted. And now, you know, I'm full of energy and I feel amazing creative inspiration. I got all sorts of plans.

That's amazing. So I'm glad to hear you're on a 15 on a scale of one to ten. Would you say the only way to get to a place of, you know, 8, 9, 10 or beyond on the self-love scale? is through healing work.

Yes. And here's what I learned. Not only healing, that's a huge part of it, but it is, you know, there's a huge difference between self-love and self-esteem, right? Self-esteem is I love myself because I'm a good person, or I'm kind, or I'm great at this thing, or I do this thing, right? Self-love is I am unbelievably spectacular and lovable simply because I am this unique spark of holy oneness that no one else is. That is self-love. And you come to that certainly through healing. That's what opens you up. But it truly comes through connecting with Spirit. Because once you do and you start getting those messages and having that too, it's impossible not to realize how spectacular you are. No more spectacular than you are or anyone else.

Right?

We're all spectacular. But for me and myself, I'm spectacular, like just like you are. But like I can feel that and understand that through that connection.

That's beautiful. What have you learned about relationships, intimate relationships through the process of grief, healing and transforming yourself into really a new human being? Yeah. You know, and what do you wish you knew about intimacy and love and relationships now from this point, like seeing things from this point, because I'm assuming all of your relationships are different. Your marriage is different, the relationship with yourself is different, the relationship to Holy Oneness is different, the relationship with your friends, your community, everything is different. What does that taught you about love and intimacy in relationships by going through grief and transforming?

Well, I always knew, not always, but I would say for the past 15 years, it's been very clear to me in my work and in my own life that when we are having a relationship with someone else, it's really us having a relationship with ourselves through that other person. That's what it always is. That's really in large part the purpose of relationships in a way on a spiritual soul level and an experience of union and other things. But it's really a source of healing and growth and integration. So I always knew that. But with so many things in my life, you know, I always say I was joking with a girlfriend about this. On the surface, it seems like a little infinitesimal little shift. But underneath, tectonic plates have moved. It seems so subtle. It's like the spiral of what I knew became so much deeper and more integrated. It wasn't an idea and an understanding. It was like the reality. and the fearlessness that held me back in ways that I didn't even understand or see from not only holding boundaries when I needed to, asking for what I need, being willing to receive, but also huge showing up as my fully authentic self. Like, I don't give a what you think about me. I don't care if I'm snotting and crying. I'm not worried that you're going to judge me if I say something or don't say something. Because anything can happen anytime, first of all. So why not enjoy and nothing is as bad as that. So bring your best.

Yeah, exactly.

Because I can survive it.

And so what lesson is there for people who are single that want to get into relationships or maybe people in relationships that know it's not everything they fully want. What is something that they could think about, learn, or start implementing to help them improve their relationships?

Yeah, well I think to get what you want out of love, whether it's calling love in or creating love you want in the relationship you have, it really, it does not start with understanding what you want behaviorally or how, or even how you want your partner to show up. It always comes down to how do you want to feel? That's why we want anything, that fancy car, that partner, that relationship, because we want to feel a certain way. And how you want to feel is the core of everything. And that can change. Like when New Year's, I never make New Year's resolutions, because I never keep them. But I make resolutions about how I want to feel this year. And that's my compass. And so often the way we most want to feel is the opposite of of what's happening in a relationship that's not working, right? Or in a relationship dating life that's not working because you're looking for the wrong things, you're targeting the wrong things. And what I've learned on that deeper level of having a relationship is really me having a relationship with myself is that when I can fill my own tank, cultivate those feelings in myself and heal those earlier wounds and stories that most of us adopted just as a means of surviving our childhood and unconsciously, whatever those wounds are, they are the shadow side of the gift and the feeling that you most want to feel. And so there is a story you have that you can't have it, that you don't deserve it, or you can't create it, or it's not possible. And that's where the healing happens, because if you follow those breadcrumbs, you will remember, you know, with guidance, obviously, you will get to those stories that you adopted.

How much do stories hold us back or propel us forward in our life?

They're everything because what happens is our energetic frequency is set by our feelings. Our feelings come from the story we tell ourselves. You know, I look at the rain coming down and I have a story that it's cozy and cuddly and sweet and makes me feel yummy. My friend who used to get abused by her abuser every time it stormed outside has a very different story even if she, you know, isn't going to be, she sees rain and she remembers. So our frequencies are very different and our feelings are very different in response to the same stimuli and it comes from the stories. Every feeling comes from our story and the stories come from our beliefs about who we are, what we're capable of and what we deserve. and our beliefs come from our childhood. So everything comes from the story.

So is it changing the beliefs? Is it changing the thoughts or rewriting the story first?

All three. Beliefs can be hard to change. You know, they're like the scared little rabbit. You can't just be like, you know, and yank them over, 'cause your beliefs are really ingrained. And so if you wanna change your beliefs, You have to get to the source of when you adopted that belief.

The story. Right.

Yeah. And most people, when they articulate the belief as the human they are now, they're like, that's ridiculous.

Right. Yeah.

Like, I don't believe that as the person I am, but there's a part of me that still really believes that. But saying it out loud, it's not real. So why do I believe that? What happened? How can I, you know, awareness is the first key. But then there may be real feelings and grief and sadness and anger that I need to release about those things that I witnessed or experienced that created that belief. And so I'm going to move those things. I'm going to call in grace. I'm going to ask for support. I'm going to allow myself to feel that. And as I feel that, I'm with myself and that little part of me that I've left behind knows I'm not ignoring her anymore. And I can integrate her. And now is that belief as tightly held? No. Oh, look, I have that story right now that I'm a burden to someone. Oh, that comes from my Balina. I'm gonna ignore it. I'm gonna announce it. I'm gonna call it out so I'm not hiding it. But I'm gonna make a choice to feel something different.

So it's recalling it and being aware of the story. Okay, here are some examples from my past that made me believe this thing, right? Here are the scenarios are being picked on or this person dumped me or whatever it is, or my dad told me that I was ugly or the stories that we start to believe. It's being aware of it first, calling out, and then is it healing that story? Is it letting it go? Is it processing and integrating it?

You can just let it go.

Yeah, I know.

That's so nice. I mean, sometimes with the little intractable one that's not really holding you back from what you most want in life, you can release them. But usually it requires two things. One, practical practice of changing those brain synapses and those go-to places through creating more neuroplasticity. And also through behavioral changes and challenging your beliefs and questioning your beliefs. And Byron Katie's work with the Four Questions is a great example. Loving what Is, I think is the name of that book. There's lots of great ways to do that on a practical level. But that will only get you so far. It's still like you keep, you know, you're pulled back and it's like one step forward, two steps back, right? And you can move forward.

But it's not integrating it in your body. Right. So when you- Healing. How do you do that?

You get to the, you go back, right? So I have a therapist that I, who is really, she laughs when I call her my therapist, but she is a trained therapist. for five or six years, but she's really a shamanic healer and an energy healer and even sort of a psychic. But she taught me and often still guides me on journeys back to those places where those wounds began so that I go there, sometimes I go there, and I know how to do this with other people too. Many teachers call it the completion process, right? So you can go back to that.

Place.

Where you first felt that feeling and you will literally see a scene that maybe you didn't even remember and you feel the feelings that you never allowed yourself to feel in that scene or that situation and then you bring in healing. Like maybe it's you as you are now, maybe it's an angel, maybe it's Superman, whoever needs to come in you know in the moment.

Yes.

And sometimes I do this with people and we go back to the scene and now I've learned, you know, he or she is five years old and this thing is happening. And so we do, and I say, okay, look around. Are there other views around? And sometimes there's like another version of them on the ceiling. And they're all these little children, parts of them, that need to be held, recognized, felt, and reintegrated. And it's a powerful process.

It's so cool that you're sharing this because literally when I met you the first time, what was this February, you said, or January or February?

February of 2021.

Yeah, it was right before Valentine's Day or something. Yeah. I was just, I was literally, I think that month just started, like, my own therapy healing journey. And for the next few months was really going deep on a lot of stuff. And I thought I'd done a lot of healing work.

Right.

Over the last nine years, I started opening up about sexual abuse that I went through for the first time and never told anyone. and started healing different things from different relationships. And I thought I'd done a lot of the work, but I was faced with a lot of uncertainty, a lot of pain, internal pain, and I had zero peace inside of me and in my environment based on what was inside you. Yes, what was inside of me and what I was attracting and creating in my intimate relationship at the time. And I'll show you later, but my phone's on the ground over there. But I've got a photo of myself when I was like five on my phone, right? And I did so many different exercises and experiences where I went back to that time period for all the different things that were happening from probably five to seven, right? Five to around then. And allowing myself to go back to those scenes and have a conversation with my childhood self from this point, from where I'm at now, from the lessons I've learned now. And really like being able to see myself right in front of me as a young little boy going through these, like what is the world? Why is this happening? Why am I here? And why did this person do this? And being able to have a conversation and do like spiritual exercises where I'm hugging him and embracing him and pulling him into my heart and all these different things that have allowed me to feel incredible peace.

And.

It'S not easy to do this type of work. It's terrifying in a sense. It's painful. It's not fun. It can feel like an emotional hangover every time you do these types of exercises until you get to a point where it's like, okay, it's not an emotional hangover anymore. But it's something that a lot of people I feel resist going back to addressing, especially, you know, I don't want to be generalizing here, but especially men because of the men that I knew never want to talk about these things. And it just takes a lot of courage for anyone in general to do this work. So I really honor people who are willing to do the healing practice.

You have to be brave.

You have ultimate courage. It's the ultimate sense of courage vulnerable courage.

It's not like-- To be with parts of yourself and experiences and feelings that you've spent a lifetime burying.

Burying, resisting, numbing, you know, distracting.

But that part of you is almost always driving the bus anyway until you integrate them and heal that part.

And the amount of abundance that has come to my life because of the feeling of peace, you know, being peace.

And change your body's frequency.

Everything as opposed to the shame and guilt that I was holding on to, even though I thought I'd gotten rid of a lot of it, there was still other little blame, shame, guilt, frustration, resentment, anger, the lower level frequency energies. When I'm in that space, it just makes things hard. There's more friction to create in relationships and business and family and life and your health. You're just carrying more weight when you do that. So it's harder to manifest what you want. And it has been a complete transformation in my life. And I'm not saying like there's not going to be more challenges that come. There will.

It's like layers of an onion that are just- Right. And they're going to be more challenges than mine, not huge ones. They're going to be more healing in my life. Exactly. I don't need a catalyst anymore. I know. I will continue to heal. And so will you. I know. With each level of healing, your frequency Rises. You know, this is why when you, you know, you have some people have those days where they stub their toe, then they get stuck in traffic.

Everything's happening.

Everything is happening. What is basically what is happening, you know, as within, so without, what is happening around you and what you're always manifesting. We're manifesting everything that happens in our life, whether we're conscious of it or not. But we're manifesting from a place of our energetic frequency.

So true. And I've been, I'm so I'm so grateful that I've had an incredible life where I feel like I've manifested a lot. It doesn't mean I haven't had a lot of challenges and adversities that I've had to overcome. But my business partner and really close friend, Matt, he's known me since college. He's like, There's something about you, Louis, where you just bring this childlike joy to situations, and then things just kind of happen for you. And I'm like, It's because I'm coming from that energy. Most of the time, you know, not always. I mean, sometimes I'm negative or whatever, but I think it's that joyful energy you said, joy and bliss is the highest level of frequency. And when we come to that place, people want to be around that energy. They want to help you, they want to give you things.

When it's authentic. Of course. Right? Because a lot of people act joyful. Oh, no, you can smell that.

Yeah.

Not everyone can smell it, but they do. And it feels manic or it's not really from a place.

It's not grounded.

It's not grounded, yeah.

So I'm glad you're saying these things because I want people to understand this, that if you are looking to attract or create a more inspiring life, a more beautiful life, a more enriched life in all areas, it's about the feeling. And it's hard to create a feeling of joy, gratitude, and bliss and appreciation if we have shame, guilt, or self-blame still inside of us. And the only way that I'm hearing you say we can get to those higher frequencies from the most authentic place is through the integration of healing those feelings.

Going through the belly of the beast.

Yes.

And getting support, you know, because this isn't work that- Can't do it alone. It's easy to do alone. No. So whether it's shamanic healing or I love, I mean, I joke that I'm a talk therapist who now does more work with the body. With words. But somatic experiencing, super, super helpful for getting back into your body and becoming aware even of what you're feeling, which a lot of people can't. And then learning to move it and release it is really powerful.

And what would you say happens to people if they don't learn to heal their emotional wounds before they get into relationships?

Well, first of all, you are always gonna attract in and be attracted to someone who's where you are.

Wounded with similar wounds.

Yeah, like they said, and I remember that line from Rent, the musical, where they sing, I'm looking for someone whose baggage goes with mine. Oh, wow. But we tend to be attracted to either people who are going to match our wounds or who we imagine unconsciously are the light side of our shadow, right?

Fix our wounds or something.

Yeah, fix our wounds. And so you end up looking for love in all the wrong places, literally. You attract in relationships with people who are going to abandon you, not show up for you, not be fully present with you. And so I always say that to people when they say, if there's a pattern, Where you are repeatedly, with every good intention, you don't want to date someone who's a commitment phobe or who is an addict, and you set that intention and you're very clear about that, and yet you keep finding yourself, despite all of your best instincts, in those relationships. That is great information. First of all, stop dating for a while. Second of all, do that deep healing work. And when you do start dating again, run away when you feel butterflies. Because people think butterflies are like, oh, I mean, look, it's actually the body's warning system.

That extreme chemistry is not healthy.

Yes. You can have chemistry, but when you meet someone and you're like, oh, I feel like we've always known each other. They feel so familiar. That is often because they feel familiar to your wounds. Right? Be real amazing love. There's definitely chemistry and attraction and excitement, but it feels like coming home. It feels peaceful underneath. It feels peaceful. Not like, I'm finally safe. I'm fine, you know? It feels like, yeah. This is good.

This is good. Yes, healthy.

Healthy, peaceful, calm. You know, with calm in the sense that you're not worrying, I think I'm gonna call, I think I'm gonna, you know, it's not exciting, Chasey. It's, yeah, we're here. Still exciting sexually, you know, hopefully. But emotionally, it's calm, peaceful home.

Yeah. My father passed in February. I'm sorry. It was a kind of a tragic experience. 17 years ago, he got into a car accident. which left him in a coma for many months, which then he woke up and never fully recovered to where he was before the accident. He was physically alive. He could have, eventually we had to teach him how to write and talk and, you know, kind of do all these things, but he wasn't able to drive again. He wasn't able to work again. And he didn't have all of his memory, so his emotional and mental Capacity was not where it was before. And the relationship I had with him completely changed. He wasn't able to really mentor and father anymore. I was 21. And so it was very challenging for all of us, siblings and the whole family.

You had to grieve him back then.

I grieved his emotional death, even though he was physically here. But it was confusing because he was still here and every time I saw him, it was like we repeated the same conversation conversation, right? It was kind of like he had dementia, but just the brain trauma was so extreme. And he passed in February and it was like I had to go back 17 years ago and fully grieve. I kind of half grieved. And so I- Because he was still there. Exactly. And so it was tragic and sad and yet beautiful and healing at the same time because kind of all of us were every year waiting or not sure is This is the year, because he always had some health complication where it was like, maybe this is the moment. We don't know. And I feel like I have a deeper connection with him now since he's like a spiritual connection where I feel him in the room. I've never had really anyone close to me pass. And I have this sense that he's around a lot more. He's around, he's in the room a lot. I can have an actual conversation because my physical conversations with him were limited with his brain capacity. Now I feel like I have his energetic, you know, beauty.

He's not limited anymore.

He's not limited anymore. What has been that that big lesson for you in spiritual connection with your son since him passing and the conversations you're able to have that are not limited based on what they were before.

Right. Or a personality much less limitations. Right. Like I have said many many times. And he has helped me and Holy One has helped me understand that I actually can now have a deeper, more profound, in some ways, more fulfilling relationship than I ever could have had, certainly with him as an adolescent, right? But even just him in human form, and all of us in human form are limited, despite how enlightened or whatever we may think we are, we still are a personality. We are supposed to be a personality. We don't want to kill the ego. We just want to not have it drive the bus.

Right.

Right. But the ego is what makes us and gives us a personality. He still has his personality. He's still funny and he is so wise. He's not a child anymore. He's his full soul's expression. And in many ways, I think he's becoming a mentor to me. And I do feel that and sense that. And it took me, I didn't even want to try for the first six months because I was still in so much pain. And this is the other thing that we need to understand is that when we're in the depth of pains in those very low frequencies, when we leave our body, we are like pure Brilliant high frequency. And just being in a human body, we can't possibly match that. It's when we leave the limitations of the human body that we really are our full expression of our highest frequency. So they're way, let's just for the sake of demonstrating this, they're way up there and we're here. We're maybe between here and here. Highest frequency we can reach in bliss and joy and lowest frequency we can reach in guilt and shame. And when you lose someone, you spend a lot of time down here, their way up here, they can't really reach you. So the best time for them to reach you and to connect with you, the only way that they really can is when you're meeting them in the middle. So the more you can do the healing to allow yourself to be in authentic peace and joy and openness, then they can connect even better. And so that's been something that I've also learned. And I do feel like, I also call him often before I go to sleep and I'll say, okay, come to me. Please come to me when I'm sleeping. I would love to be with you. And often he comes and I have, which I never had before this, lucid dreams. So he literally steps in. I'm having a dream, whatever. And I'm, It's not lucid, but I remember the dream afterwards. But it's literally just a dream. And he literally steps into the dream, not part of the dream. Like, it just steps into it.

An observer.

Yeah, like here, I'm here. And I, several times now, like hug him and smoosh all over, you know, because I miss his hands. I miss his smell, you know? And I'm just like, You know, sniffing, eating him up. And we're both aware that I'm just getting my fill. And it literally feels completely real. It does not feel like I'm dreaming.

That's incredible.

And then he just, it's like our time is up or whatever. I don't know. He very gently is like, okay, I'm late. See you later. And he just leaves. It's clear that he's good-naturedly tolerating, you know, and allowing. Like he's kind of like, okay, you know, go ahead. I know, like, and he's not annoyed by it, but he knows it's for me. You know, she doesn't need it.

What's the biggest lessons he's taught you since his passing?

I mean, I learned so much about him that I didn't know after he left from his, I mean, he was horribly bullied. Horribly bullied. And, you know, that was part of why he wanted to experiment, 'cause he was trying to fit in with the few kids that would accept him, which were always the druggie kids. You know, they're the ones that will accept you if you join them. What I didn't realize is how many people he touched. The amount of letters I have gotten from this girl that he went to camp with two years ago, this kid he sat on the bus with, and they all would tell me this, and I had no idea. I mean, I knew he was really intuitive and attuned, just from the things he would say and observe. But he would see, time and time again, the story I would get is that he would see someone who was struggling or depressed or feeling bad, and he would literally go and sit with them and try to make them feel better and let them know they aren't alone and make them laugh. And that is a story I hear, and they all say, I've never forgotten it. It was such a kind thing. It meant so much to me at the time. And I love those stories. I have a whole book that I haven't been able to read yet of all of his football team and stories they tell of him really showing up for him. And that was amazing too is when we decided to bury some of his ashes in a cemetery here. And I just sent an email to his school saying we were gonna do this. It wasn't like these kids were nice to him. He ate lunch every day with the coaches. They were mean to him. So in a way, when COVID started, we were relieved because he could be out of that war zone every day. But all the kids on his football team showed up and teachers and coaches. And not only that, I had planned on just throwing the dirt in and then leaving and letting the caretaker actually bury everything finally, you know, not fill in the whole grave, right? Those kids refused to leave. They silently took turns and filled in every inch of that grave. Patted it down. Stood around it silently. It was like this collective energy took over. And then they came over to me and one by one, you know, hugged me. I didn't know any, like, because they weren't friends with him and they weren't, many of them were more mean to him, but like this had changed their lives. And that is what he has taught me is that his life, because of what happened, it wouldn't have always been that way. Because of what changed the trajectory, his life has such a greater meaning now than it ever could have had after taking those drugs with him on the other side.

Oh man, I'm so grateful that you've Decided to dive into the healing journey and allow yourself to feel and allow yourself to go through all the pain and all the shame and guilt and experience it all and be at this stage now. It's really beautiful to witness. And I'm so grateful that you're healthy. Yes. In a joyful state and still in your healing journey and process. Obviously, I'm sure there's moments where aren't always beautiful and pretty, but I'm so grateful that Lori, you decided to live and thrive.

Me too.

And not just survive and be sad every day. So I'm really grateful for your example and for your lessons and for how you're teaching others this practice. It's really beautiful.

Thank you.

I have so many more things I want to ask you, but we've already gone two hours now, so I'm gonna expect, yeah, we'll have you come back. But you've got an amazing podcast called the Language of Love, which is about sex, love and relationships from a mind-body perspective. And I can only imagine how much more powerful your content is now with this process and this experience. And so I recommend people going to check that out. Also, your book, Quantum Love?

Quantum Love.

Quantum Love that people can get at your website, DrLauraBerman.com, Dr. Laura Berman on social media as well. Where do you spend the most time on social media these days?

I would say Facebook and Instagram. Instagram for sure. And I post every day often me demonstrating something.

Sure, sure. It's cool. Yeah, people need to see it.

Yeah, and it's amazing how, I mean it really is meaningful to me how much it helps them.

That's great.

I mean it helps me too.

Helps you and others.

And them, yeah.

That's great. Well, I want people to check that out, DrLauraBerman.com and social media, the book, the podcast. How else can we be of support to you?

I love when people join me. I love the community. And I never have felt so connected to this, to my, social media was always a way to educate or help. Now it really feels like a community. And I feel really connected.

That's cool.

In a personal way. And I love that part. I also am doing, you can find it on my website too, but I'm doing Manifestation Mondays Club.

Ooh, that's cool.

So the first Monday of every month we meet and, you know, I give a lesson and then I take someone onto what I call the love seat, not the hot seat, and do some deep work with them in service to the group.

That's cool.

And then they have kind of their homework for the month. and it's all about really cultivating the healing and cultivating the frequency that's holding you back that you need to create. And then halfway through the month we have office hours and so we kind of check in with everyone. That's cool. But it's been really fun and amazing community of people there too. That's great.

Okay, cool. We'll check it all out. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's many years away. You live as long as you want, but eventually it's your last day. And you've accomplished and created and become everything you want to become. But for whatever reason, you have to take all of your work with you. Your message, your content, your books, your podcast, everything has to go to another place. And you only get to leave behind three lessons to the world. This is all we would have to remember you buy your content by. Three lessons that you would share or what I like to call three truths. What would you say are yours?

That nothing is real except love. And that's what you're made of. That healing and creating the life you want is only possible by going through it and really being with it and feeling it. That everything is energy and energy, your energy, we're all connected regardless of what our beliefs or stories or politics are or wounds are, we're all worthy of love and that energy will never die. So wherever I'm going, I'm just taking a different form.

Yeah, those are beautiful. I love those truths.

Good. I just, they just came to me. I didn't have this question before. I didn't remember it.

It was great. I want to acknowledge you, Laura, for again, the journey you've been on and for your courage and for your awareness and your process and you being willing to share these things. I think it's really scary to go through it. and sometimes even harder to share it with others, close ones and then also an audience of the world. So I really acknowledge you for continuing to do the work and elevate your awareness, your consciousness and everything about yourself. It's really beautiful and I appreciate you very much. My final question, what's your definition of greatness?

For me personally, because I think that's all it is. I mean, it doesn't, everyone has their own definition and it's Healing, learning and teaching. That's my life purpose. That's clearly what I'm here to do. And that, everything I look at it, my life, when I'm living in greatness and abundance emotionally and literally, it's because I'm doing that. He'll learn to teach, he'll learn to teach, he'll learn to teach. That's it.

That's great, Laura. Thanks so much. Appreciate you.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.

Of course. Most people talk nicer to anybody else than their partner when a relationship is deteriorating. Why is that? Because you can't get away with it. Because you can't get away with it. Because if you talk like this at work, you're gone. Because if you talk like this with the police, you're gone. Because if you talk like this on the street, you're being punched.