If You Want To Become A HIGH-VALUE Person, WATCH THIS! | Stephen A. Smith & Lewis Howes

Betting on yourself is believing in you, knowing who you are, what you're worth, having an idea about it anyway, and willing to work towards that to validate that reality. That's betting on yourself.

I think you gotta have a dream.

The school of greatness.

Really? Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howis.

We've got a number of things in common.

Okay.

After learning more about your backstory, your childhood, and diving into your book, Straight Shooter, number one, both not diagnosed with dyslexia early on in eighth grade. I was at a second grade reading level when I got in eighth grade. I think you were held back in fourth grade or somewhere around there.

Yeah.

So we both struggled in school.

Okay.

We both are the youngest. I'm the youngest of four.

I'm the youngest of six.

Exactly.

Right.

And we both had challenging times with our fathers.

Yeah.

And we both played college basketball.

Yeah.

So those are just a few. And we both have a podcast.

There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on, you know.

But it's amazing that I learned more about your story because I didn't know a lot of these things about you, and I want to talk about some of them. But you seem so. You are confident. You seem confident on. On camera, on tv, your podcast, when you're doing all the different stuff on tv. But did you always have this confidence? And if not, how did you start to develop that confidence? Especially with all the setbacks, with all the heartaches, with getting fired from ESPN at one point and then coming back. How do you stay confident when you don't grow up that way?

Well, first of all, to answer your first question, I was not always confident. There's no doubt about that. I've always had my insecurities. What I firmly believed in, as it pertained to me was that I always worked hard. I was never lazy. I was always somebody that believed in hard work. And when I got to a point where that seventh grade teacher. It's in the book. And that seventh grade teacher talked about, you know, finding what my passion was, and you'll have a star on your hands. And it was really validation for me at that point that I had that kind of potential. And so that's really, really where it started. And from that point forward, the mission was to find what I love to do and discover whether or not I can make a living actually doing it. And when it came to sports, obviously, I was incredibly confident. I wasn't incredibly confident as a player, per se, because even in College, I was 5, 9, 5 10, 130 pounds, you could blow me away, for crying out loud. But I could really ball.

Yeah.

And so because of that, I had enough confidence to know that the skill set which got me a basketball scholarship, which put me in a position to learn from a legend not just about sports, but about life. I learned about that, and then I learned about the importance of networking. Because he knew everybody and because he knew everybody and I was one of his players, I came to know so many people and a multitude of people that I'd come to know. The late, great John McClendon, ultimately the sunny hills of the world of Philadelphia, the John Chaney's, the John Thompsons of the world, and various others. You could pick up the phone and talk to anybody, or you could run into anybody and have a conversation, and they edified you with their wisdom, their knowledge that they were eager to impart upon somebody that wanted to listen, somebody that they felt was interested in making a difference. And that's when that last part came in. Because if I wasn't interested in making a difference, if I wasn't interested in impacting the lives of others in a positive fashion, they would have not been interested in giving me the time of day. I had to be interested in something greater than myself to get their interest to. To elevate in me.

How were you always interested in making a difference in other people's lives or since the time? Always.

Always. I was. I was just growing up in the streets of New York, Hollis, Queens. Half of my friends are dead. A lot of them were in the drug game. Those who were not in the drug game and aren't dead still had their struggles. And to. To see the things that I saw and to be surrounded by a bunch of Muslims growing up, you know, black empowerment was a big thing, a belief in oneself, and that was the difference. So many people think about black empowerment and you think, you know, you got folks screaming about white folks and other being the devil or something like that. It was about black empowerment, believing in yourself, being self sufficient, striving to do whatever you could to be the best that you could be, so you could be seen as an equal. And that's what people miss in this day and age. So understanding that difference just made me more motivated to be in a position where if I spoke, people would hear me. Not just listen, but actually hear me, because I came at you in such a way that you couldn't help but open your ears and be receptive to what I had to say, even if it were for the purposes of simply disagreeing. With me, you had to listen. And that's what I tried to do.

How did you develop that skill set to get people to listen?

My mother told me I had it coming out of the womb that. That, you know. You know, they marveled at the struggles that I had in the classroom because it didn't show in grades per semester. It would show up in elementary school on the final exams. And then when you took the final exams and the reading comprehension wasn't up to snuff, you got yourself left back. But if you listen to me throughout the year and I'm talking, you're like, this is a really, really smart kid. Because I knew how to speak, I knew how to articulate my thoughts, et cetera, et cetera. My challenge was reading and then comprehending exactly. I can't.

I couldn't read a page and remember what I.

That's right. I couldn't do it. I couldn't. I couldn't comprehend it. And so for me, you know, that was the big challenge. And, you know, but I always had supreme confidence in my ability to express myself. I might not have had it any in other. Any other way, but when it came to expressing myself, I knew that. And I remember throughout the years, you know, because I've been single all of these years, even though I'm a dad. And I would tell. I've always told women this one line. There is no one you will ever find more emotionally honest than me. What I meant by that was, you will know how I feel. You'll never be able to say, I had no idea.

Right.

This was totally clueless to me. He didn't tell me. I didn't know.

You expressed it fully.

No, I expressed it. I articulated my feelings very, very well because I was raised by five women, my four older sisters and my mother. My brother left when I was 9 years old to go to the armed services before coming out and becoming a salesman before he passed away in a car accident in 1992. But I was raised by my four older sisters and my mother. And so when you're around five older women, all of whom are telling you what to do, right? When you stand up to express yourself, you had better know what you're talking about. Otherwise they would slap me upside the head and say, boy, go ahead. And it was just that simple. And so I knew that. And after dealing with them, of course I'm fearless, because who could be worse than them, right?

What was the greatest lesson your mom taught you then?

Wow. My mother. You know, obviously, hard work was first and fore, it stood out above the crowd because my mother was like, you're never gonna get anywhere being lazy.

And you're the hardest working guy on tv. You work more days than anyone else.

That's what they say. That's what they say. I have averaged, you know, I've never worked less than 330 days a year, with the exception of last year when I had Covid. Outside of that, I've never worked less than 330 days in any year in my entire career, my entire journalism or television career. That's been nearly 30 years now, if you can include the newspaper industry. But I would tell you that hard work is what stands out. To answer your question directly because. But it was for different reasons. My mom was a very, very hard worker, but she had to, because my father was negligent.

He was lazy, right?

He was. Well, you don't want to say the word lazy in this respect. It wasn't that he wouldn't work. It's that he would take his earnings and go elsewhere.

Got it.

And he wouldn't bring it home.

So he'd do it for himself.

Tell him to do it for himself and not the family. And that was really the crime. My mother, as a result, was forced to work. But what she wanted to instill was the importance of hard work. She says, because you don't work hard to play hard. She used to tell me, you work hard to have the ability to play when you want to. There's a difference. And what she meant by that was that you handle your responsibilities first. And when you work hard and you have that sense of pride, it goes right out the window if you utilize your efforts in the wrong fashion. But when you do what's right and it's based off of that effort that you put in, then you feel good about it because you took care of your responsibilities. Then you can go play. Sure. Can't do the playing before any of that stuff. And so I've always been about my business in that regard to put in the work to make sure. Like one of the greatest compliments I've ever received in my career. I had to give a speech at the University of Syracuse. This is about three years ago. And the less than three years ago. Actually more like two years ago or so. Two to three years ago. And the athletic director of the school, his name is Mr. John Wildhack. He's the athletic director at Syracuse. He's my former boss at espn. He was an executive VP spanning three decades. Whatever he was as an executive doesn't even come close to what he is as a man. He's a good man and somebody that I have a lot of love and respect for. And he asked me to come and speak to the Syracuse football team. And when I went to speak to them, he introduced me and he said, I've been in this business for 35 years. This man, Stephen A. Smith, is the only talent in my career that I had to make take vacation. And it was the honest truth.

Wow.

It's not to say I wouldn't take vacation, but I'm very big on when the job gets done, that's when you take it.

As Kobe said, job's not finished.

It's like, you know, people go on vacation. Yeah, Kobe was big about that too. And, you know, Lord, I miss him so much. God rest his soul. But it's like he was that guy. And, you know, for me, the story's the story. When something's percolating, the audience expects to hear from me because of what I've been blessed and fortunate enough to establish at espn. If I ask the audience to invest in me on that level and I build that kind of cachet with the audience, if I can't do something, I can't do something. But if I can, I'm supposed to, because I asked them to make that investment in me. And so to me, it's why I've been on vacation on a boat between St. Thomas and St. John's and I'm working on Sports center, literally in the middle of the ocean, 15 minute boat ride. That's all it was, Right. It's a reason why I'm in Barbados one summer and I'm doing the same. It's a reason why I'm in St. Thomas Virgin Islands, and I'm doing the same, you know, or I'm in Europe and I'm doing the same because I had the means to do it. I had the access to that intel. And the audience had come to expect me to be a guy that they heard from when something was percolating. And you hear Dan, da, da, da, da, Sports center, breaking news, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Where the hell's Stephen A. And it was my job to say, I'm right here. And so that's the kind of mentality I've always had, right?

You're here. You just may not be in studio in the same place every time.

Well, absolutely. Most of the time I'm not, because I'm on a move. I'm making things happen. You know, I mean, I don't I'm not somebody that's. Stand still. I'm in the studio because they have me. Like, people could sit up there and say that he's not at games and stuff like that. But you don't hear people saying that about me because they knew that when I didn't have a studio show to do, I was at a minimum of 125 games a year.

That's crazy.

Minimum.

That's amazing.

I. I showed up. I was in the locker room. I was courtside. I'm in the press box. I'm. I go to games. I stop going to games as much because, a. I'm stuck in studio, and I can't just get up and travel when I got to be in studio the next morning by 9:00am Number two, and more importantly, when you, you know, you. You're not at the games, and because you're in studio, people are looking at you and they're thinking, hey, well, you know, why isn't he there? Then they say, this guy was always there, and this guy would always be there. Any chance to get. Cause I, like, I can't stand talking about people I don't talk to. Now. You can't help it. Cause you can't talk to everybody. And so many people make news. But I'm the kind of guy, if I'm talking about Lewis, I'm like, yo, man, I'm about to say this today. Here's how. Here's why you're telling her. This is how I feel. I try to tell her first. You can't reach everybody. And more importantly, sometimes, especially in the world of sports, unlike politics and stuff like that, in the world of sports, they don't want to be reached. They don't want you to have that access. A lot of times, very few of them are different. Kobe was one of those people, like, I was, like, guarded with what I said.

Sure.

Because Kobe called. It wasn't publicist. It wasn't some agent. It wasn't anybody. It was him.

Right.

Man, I know that. I didn't just hear your say, blah, blah, blah.

Did he do that one time?

Oh, several times. Really? Kobe, beyond me, you know? The hell you didn't say Stephen A. I expect you to know more. What the f. Was that? I mean, come on. Now. And then we'd go back and forth and we'd argue about it, you know, Shaq and me, same thing. We'd argue about it because they, you know, they knew I knew my basketball. So we'd have a conversation. We'd talk about Things. But if they right, I'm gonna say they're right.

Wow.

And if I said something publicly and I was wrong, I'm not going to connect it. I'm not going to correct it properly. I'm going to correct it publicly.

Wow.

I'm going to show them that courtesy. And that's my mo. That's good with anybody. I don't care who you are. If I say something publicly and I'm wrong, publicly apologizing, I'm apologizing and I'm correcting it. Because it's not personal. It's not personal. I have a job to do. I know there are lines I'm not going to cross. I'm not going to get into your personal affairs. Whatever. Stay out of the police blotters. Don't make your personal business our personal business because your business becomes public outside of that. Ain't none of my business.

Right?

You ask. But what you do on the court of field to play, that's my domain. And if you play, like, excuse my language, I'm going to call it right. I'm going to say it just the way it is, because that's what we saw. Understand that. And Kobe was one of those dudes that he challenged you because he was a basketball savant, brilliant mind, you know, and this is what he is. But this is me. So it's Kobe, it's Michael Jordan, it's CP3, it's D. Wade, it's Shaq, it's all of these people that I've known. You know, it's stars. You know, Spike Lee's in the world, Jamie Foxx in the world, Michael B. Jordan's. In this day and age, everybody got st to say, but a lot of times they're right. I'm not. Doesn't make me wrong. But when I am wrong, I'll correct it. It's the right. It's the right thing to do. And I'm always, always, always going to be that guy. Because I'm not the most religious person in the world, but I do believe in God. I do believe in a higher power. I do believe in the spirit. I do believe in that. And if you don't have that kind of oomph inside of you that really humanizes you and shows your humanity and your willingness to be fair, then you ain't worth much. And I will never be that guy. But then you also have people that are just ultra sensitive. They shoot 2 for 20. And you said they shoot. They play like trash tonight. And it's like you Talked about their mama. It's like, it's like, wait a minute, you shot 2 for 20 in front of 20,000 people in attendance and millions watching on television. 1. Why are you having an attitude with me? You did it for the world to see what's the problem. And so you have to. You just maneuver yourself through that minefield. And the best way to do it is to be fair.

I'm curious about how you handle criticism and feedback and hate and anger and frustration and arrange the emotions that might come as criticism towards you for being so forward in your thoughts and your full range of emotions publicly in certain things. A lot of people that love you, a lot of people that don't love you as much and they both watch you.

Yep.

Right. They love you, they hate you. They're still going to watch you. But how do you handle when you say something that maybe you were wrong or right or whatever and people don't like it and they are aggressive in their attacks, their feedback, their criticism. How do you handle that and still stay confident when maybe a lot of people are second guessing you in that moment?

It depends on what we're talking about.

Sure.

First order business. Was I honest and truthful? Did I display my humanity? Was I fairly? If the answers to those are yes, excuse my language, they can kiss my right. I kill us.

Yeah.

And kill us what they think it really does. I don't lose in a minute of sleep over a second asleep over. It doesn't faze me in the slightest if I'm wrong. Totally different. I have to correct that.

Yeah.

I was wrong. And I have to be just as straight up about myself if I as I was willing to be about them. Now we get to a different category. Was I cruel? I am not a person. I have a hard time with somebody telling me I was cruel. I don't believe I'm a cruel person. I don't believe I'm cruel because you, you did something in public display and I called it like I saw it. Yes, you wanted everybody to see it. They saw it. They judged your actions, not you. Your actions, your efforts. Your actions, your efforts, your lack thereof, whatever. I don't believe that's cruel. Now if I use that to campaign against you and to character assassinate you and to get everybody to believe this is who you are, they shouldn't like you, they shouldn't trust you, they shouldn't show you no love, they shouldn't give you any second chances and stuff like that. That's cruel.

Yeah.

I don't believe I'm that guy. And so you'd have a very, very difficult time convincing me that I'm a cruel person. Because I can tell you right now, there's not many, believe it or not, people think that athletes can't stand me or whatever the case may be. Listen, man, I get a lot of love and respect from these guys. Do they want to sit down and be across from me during an interview? Hell no. They don't want that. They don't want that smoke. Because they know what I'm going. They know some of the questions I'm going to ask.

Sure.

And unlike a reporter that hasn't been blessed and fortunate enough to achieve what I have achieved, that needs to ingratiate themselves with them so you don't alienate them so you can continue to do your job. I don't have that problem. Literally, I can wake up every morning and say, who do I want to talk about today? By virtue of A, the debate show format that I work on, B, the fact that it's been number one for 11 years and that the viewers keep coming. We're in linear television, okay. And just last month in linear television, you know, in an age where shows are being canceled, salaries are being cut, people are being laid off, show still number one. And the print and the ratings are pre pandemic ratings.

Wow.

In linear television, in an age where they're using smartphones and subscribers have dipped by the millions, my ratings have stayed the same or have increased double digits.

Incredible.

Month to month over the span of years.

Why do you think that is?

Well, they got love for me or they love to hate me. My host, Molly Kurum is phenomenal. The contributors on the show, from Michael Irvin to Mad Dog Russo to Keyshawn Johnson to Dan Olofsky and Marcus Spears, Ryan Clark and, you know, Mina Kimes and Kendrick Perkins and all these people that I have contributing to the show, they're phenomenal and it's entertaining because we haven't. We've brought that entertainment element to sports.

Right.

We're not just spewing our knowledge about sports. We're trying to entertain you. We're making you laugh. We're making you think we. We're talking about a lot of different things. So that goes a long way. But to get back to your question, I say this to you again. Cruel is a different animal.

Yeah.

And to make sure that I'm not cruel, again, you're dealing with things differently. And I make sure as long as I'm fair, as accurate as I possibly can be, and I display My humanity and avoid being cruel. And most importantly, making sure I draw a distinction between assassinating what you do as opposed to who you are, your character.

Yeah.

As long as I make sure to draw that distinction and I don't engage in the character assassination of another person. I sleep very well at night.

That's amazing.

I sleep very well at night.

Now you've had, you know, in your book, which is beautifully written, by the way. I love. I love the stories and everything. I haven't finished every.

That means a lot to you to say that. Because I wrote it.

Yeah, I can tell. I can tell your voice. I'm excited to finish it. But you talk about a lot, about the setbacks. And I don't think people know about all your setbacks. Personally, I'm curious. Or professionally, quite honestly, I'm curious. In your mind, what was the biggest setback in your life, either personally or professionally, that people either know about or don't know about? And what was the biggest lesson that you learned in that heartache, in that setback, in that pain that has served you today?

It varies. There are some times that I think getting left back. And be very, very clear, I got left back twice. I got left back in the third grade in June of my third grade year. But that September, after summer school, they promoted me back to my right grade. So it was like I didn't get left back at all. That's nice. Then I went to the fourth grade, completed that year, and they got left back again.

Wow.

And this time held back the whole year.

The fourth grade over.

Fourth grade, I had to do the fourth grade over. So the third grade I didn't have to do over after summer school, but the fourth grade I had to do over. Wow. And so it was incredibly embarrassing and humiliating. And some of the things that my father said about me to my mother hurt incredibly much. There's no doubt about that. It's all in the book. But sometimes I've thought it was that. And then there were other times I thought it was in 2009 when ESPN let me go.

That was kind of the dream job. Right? This is the place. This is the space.

You know what? Yeah. But that wasn't the reason. It was that everyone knew. You gotta remember, I had. I was on NBA Countdown, NBA Shoot around at the time. That's what it was called. And I had my own show, quite frankly. And a year and a half earlier, the show had been canceled. After 327 shows, 780 plus interviews, the show had been canceled because of minimal Ratings. And everyone knew. And so when you go from that to being on billboards, to being on commercials, to being on national television every day, to getting let go, everyone knows you're gone. Everyone knows it's not of your own volition. Everyone knows you've been fired. And then you also have to take into account the black element. When you are a black man, you do not. If you're smart, which a lot of us are, you don't assume that opportunities are waiting for you. You know, obstacles are standing at every door. You do firmly believe, and you're raised to believe you have to do twice as much to get half of what folks in white America get. And so that challenge that you have to embrace and you have to deal with, that's hard to deal with when you have achieved. It's hard to deal with when you standing on the mountaintop because everybody's gunning for you to try and take you down. But when you fall, you never assume it's guaranteed. And so for me to lose my job was bad enough, to lose a seven figure salary was bad enough. But to then turn around and to know that everybody knew and to know that you had your share of haters and people were basically saying it was justified not knowing anything that was going on or why it happened, to go through all of that while at the same time wondering whether or not you were going to ever be able to restore your career while you're an expectant father, my goodness, it is. It was by far the scariest moment of my life. There's no doubt about it. Because you want to know what a nightmare is for a man? And I say this to people and I've said this to black men, I've said this to white men. I've said this to everybody. I said this is where real men come into play, where we all in this together. If you are a real man, you want to provide for your family to those out there. You ain't a real man if you ain't thinking about providing for your family. You know, say if you want to take all the money for yourself and you don't want to give nothing to anybody else and you want to leave everybody else hanging while you live the good life. That is not a man. A man provides. That's what men do. When you have a family, any man, I don't give a damn what ethnicity you are. When you have a concern as to how you're going to pay your bills.

Scary, Tom.

There is nothing worse.

Scary.

There is nothing worse because then you.

Don'T feel like you can be a man.

That's right. There's nothing worse. I don't care if you have a woman with money.

You still don't feel like you're a man.

You don't feel like you're a man because it's like she could make 2 million a year. No matter if you made 300,000 a year to her 2 million, you still okay?

Yes.

Because you know, you could provide for you for the lifestyle and you could provide for a certain lifestyle. Maybe not the lifestyle her salary gives you, but it ain't like you on the street, right?

You're buying food, you're paying for rent, you can travel, you're fine.

You don't have to make as much as her whatever. But when you cannot provide at all. At all. It is no worse feeling on the planet. That is. That is as close to death spiritually as I've ever felt in my life. With the exception of losing my mother.

Wow.

Nothing. Losing my brother was devastating. Losing my mother was just a different level. It's hard to explain and put in the words what I went through after I lost my mother. But a close second was when I was unemployed.

Wow.

And wondering whether or not I was going to have a job.

And what was the lesson for you and what did you learn or develop at that time?

First thing I learned is that don't give a damn about popularity. Whole bunch of people knew me. Well, this is double edged sword to that. That means they knew I was fired. Yeah, I was popular. That means when I got fired, I was popular.

Talked about. Exactly.

You know, they're popular for the wrong reasons.

Yeah.

So you can't give a damn about that. The other thing was, and the most important lesson, master my business. I thought popularity was people screaming my name in the streets. I paid little to no attention to revenue and ratings. I left that to other people.

Interesting.

So you know what that meant, Louis, I didn't know my worth. Had no clue.

You didn't know your financial worth because you were like, well, people know me. They're talking about me. I'm on tv, so that's enough.

That's right. Exactly.

You didn't understand the numbers, the bank.

Account, when you go to negotiate. Right. Well, you offering me X amount of dollars? Well, I think I'm worth twice that much.

Yeah.

Well, why, how can you validate that?

So you didn't know how to communicate that at that time?

I had no idea. Right. I was clueless.

You're like, I'm just happy to Be on tv. I got the popularity.

I talk about all of that in the book. And then I went and let's just say this. Fast forward less than 10 years later, after I had been back, because I returned back to ESPN two years after that, and I had gone through a couple of contracts. But by the time 10 years later arrived and it was negotiation time, there was no emotion. Zero. Zero. It was like, these are my ratings. This is the revenue that I'm told I bring into. I bring to the table.

Right.

Where's my money?

Yeah.

And that's exactly how I felt.

It's amazing.

And all of a sudden, you become empowered because the industry has a right, any industry has a right to speak their own language. You can't go before a judge, in a courtroom, in a criminal courtroom, talking like an accountant. The accountant has his language. The criminal justice system has its language. The corporate justice system has its language. You see what I'm saying? The medical profession has its language. You have to speak that language outside of speaking that language. You have to edify yourself to the point where you're having a conversation and you're looking people straight in the eye devoid of any emotion. Because when you're talking numbers and facts, now they have to come at you with their own. And if they can't do that, then emotions infiltrate the proceedings. And once a motion infiltrates the proceedings, it only did that because you don't have the facts to back up the argument you were making.

Sure.

And if you don't have the facts to back up the argument that you wanted to make, so you divert to your emotions, what that means is you don't want to pay me. Now we get to the why would you not want to pay?

Right.

If I'm bringing in this revenue.

Yeah.

In the world of business, you have people that have this mentality. You ever see these corporations and they talk about, well, you know, we gotta lay people off because, you know, we're projected to lose this amount of money. Well, actually, you didn't lose money. You projected that you were gonna make more than you actually made. You budgeted accordingly. You didn't meet that targeted number. And so everybody around you have to suffer because your numbers were off. Right. And because of that, that might have led to you hiring people that didn't need to be hired, hiring an inordinate amount of people that didn't need to be employed, et cetera, et cetera. It could lead to a lot of things. But at the end of the day, the point is there's real losses and then there's actual. There's projected losses. So when you're paying attention to all of these things, all of a sudden it empowers you because now you have an idea of what your worth is. And it leaves you in a position of being able to make better decisions about what's best for you because you're able to depersonalize things. My problem back in the day was that I personalized. I got caught up in. I deserve this. I work 330 plus days out of the year. You got guys getting paid more than me that you paying. They work. They work 100 days out of the year. They work 20 days out of the year.

You got emotional.

Yeah. And you got emotional.

You didn't know the numbers, and I didn't know.

And again, sometimes the numbers are always arguable. They always. They can fudge it. But the point is, you have a ballpark idea of what those numbers are and what your worth is. And by virtue of that, when they come to you, you're able to negotiate. When ESPN came to me with my last negotiation, they shocked the living hell.

Out of me with how low or.

How high it wasn't the number that I wanted. And I eventually got more.

Okay.

But the look, the opening offer was so low. Was very respectable. Oh, it was. And I knew it.

So they shot.

I went like this. Well, this is lower, but damn, I didn't expect an offer this much.

That's nice.

So all of a sudden, it changed the whole tenor of things, because I knew you respected.

You're not frustrated. You're not.

Not at all.

Yeah. You're like, okay.

Because it's like, okay, there's a negotiation that has to take place here. But this number is very respectable. And the number was respectable enough because you didn't mean. You didn't have to make me work for it.

Right.

If they had made me work for it, I would have walked. No one knows that.

Wow.

But I would have walked because after what I had been through, I'm perfectly fine if I have to make less now to get more on the back end. Being in an environment that I think is fruitful and edifying for me.

Wow.

And the fact that they came with such a respectable offer at the very start completely disarmed me, because now it's a fair negotiation. You're not insulting me. And because of that, that changed the whole. Changed my whole complexion.

Yeah. You're like, yeah, I want to be.

Here, then I want to be here.

I feel like you want me here.

There we go.

I want to be here.

There we go.

That's good.

There we go. And that's important, because when you work as hard as I do, you expect to feel wanted.

100%.

You expect to feel wanted because you got to remember we sign contracts. So understand. As long once I sign my contract, as long as I show up to work every day and I honor my contract, I don't owe you anything. I could win, I could lose. It doesn't mean anything. My number's guaranteed, but I don't play that way. I pursue number one at all times.

Yeah, you pursue the win.

So I got my money, and I could have rested on my laurels, but it ain't in me. And it was made considerably easier for me not to rest on my laurels because of how they open those negotiations. The respect that they showed me made me say, I'm good here. I appreciate that.

That's good.

But it took that because I was planning on walking. Nobody knew that, but I was planning on walking.

From espn.

Yes.

Wow.

Yes. It all came down to how are you going to treat me? Because I knew that I had felt disrespected in the past.

Isn't it interesting that you cared? Well, you cared about the money, obviously, but more about the way you were treated and whether or not you would continue to support a massive global organization in being successful or you taking your talents.

Right.

As LeBron would say elsewhere.

Right.

And it's interesting for people to know, just in working environments, relationships, that people care just as much about how they're treated over the number people. And maybe it's not over, but it's. It's just as it's an equal.

My pastor. My pastor. And again, I'm not the most religious person in the world, but, you know, I love God, and I'm. I'm thankful for all the blessings that he's given me. And one of the greatest blessings he's given me is my pastor, A.R. bernard, at the Christian Cultural center in Brooklyn, New York. He is a man that is near and dear to my heart, and I love him eternally. And a lot of times I use him as that litmus test, per se, or that morality gauge per se, for lack of better words. Sorry if that's not good, Sheriff. I want to make sure he knows when I'm on the air and I'm bragging or what. I'm having a good time trying to make people laugh. I'm joking around or something. He knows that's not my M.O. you know, so it's like he knows that about me. If I'm sitting there, look, I look good. Hell no, I don't think I look that good. I'm not ugly. I'm not Godzilla. But I don't think I'm some male model. I ain't Zoolander, okay? I'm not that guy. That's not me. All right? But here's the thing. At this industry, in this industry that I'm in of television, broadcast television, stuff like that, I believe I'm the best there is. I ain't apologizing for it to anybody. I think I'm the best thing since sliced bread.

Yeah.

My pastor knows why I feel that way.

Why is that?

My sisters and my family and my closest friends know why I feel that way. Number one, I always use this line, I'm brilliant because I know I'm not. I steal from those who are and I learned from them. And I disseminate that level of brilliance that I got from other people. Always giving them credit, number one. Number two, here's the biggest thing. I think I'm the best because I think about the company. I know Bob Iger, the CEO of Walt Disney. I know George Bodenheimer, the former president of ESPN abc. I know Jimmy Pitaro, the present president of espn, who's a really, really good man. Nor B. Williamson, Dave Roberts. Pick up former bosses like John Skipper, John Wildtack, Connor Schell or whatever. I challenge any human being alive to go to any of them and ask them what my dedication was to winning. What is winning? It's not my definition. They define it. When you represent a brand, the brand decides what winning is. You can't sit up there and say, this is what winning is to me.

No, not your company.

Yeah, I'm a big dude. I'm a big deal. They say I'm the most recognizable face on espn. Blah, blah, blah. Man, you bigger than espn. No, I'm not. They'll be just fine without me. NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, National Hockey League list goes on and on. I'm a lot of things. I ain't a 22 billion dollar a year conglomerate. Right? That's not who I am. I'm not that big. I'm not Walt Disney. But you know what? Whatever Walt Disney's mission is, how can I help? So as I say in the book, how can I make my bosses more money? How can I get some of it right? That mentality, That's a game changer, is what makes me the best.

That's a game changer.

Because what I'm saying is I'm not saying I'm the best because I articulate myself on television better than anybody else. Even though I think I work as hard as anybody, but I work more than anybody. Or that I got. Even though I've been number one for 11 years in morning television, pardon the interruption is number one on ESPN. Not me. I'm a lot of things. I'm not my brother, Michael Wilbon. I'm not my brother from another mother, Tony Kornheiser. I'm not those guys. They're the institution. You see what I'm saying? I understand who I am. But what I'm saying is, is that you show me what winning is for the brand and I'm going to bust my butt to go and get it for you. Don't forget me. Make sure you reward me. Or I'll go someplace.

Treat me well. Yeah, treat me well.

I'll find a way to go someplace where I will be treated well. Even if it's on my own, like I'm treating. Do them on my own podcast. I will do all of those things. Okay? All I'm saying is, is that that is what I believe makes me the best. It's my commitment to excellence for the collective whole.

That's incredible.

Not just me. I don't go on First Date. I'm the executive producer of First Date. The boss is handing me carte blanche. I'm the one that determines to run down every day. I'm the one that goes on TV every day and executes. The people that contribute to First Take have been hand picked by me. I picked them, okay? I'm the one responsible. Do I have bosses at the Institute? Dave Roberts? Yes. Jimmy Pitaro? Yes. Nobi Williamson? Yes. Bob Iger? Yes. I have to answer to these people. No question they're the bosses, but they've made me the boss of First Take.

Right.

Okay. Antwan Lewis, exceptional black man, be producer for First Take. James Dunn, Sam Tanucci, Nick Scialo, all of these guys, phenomenal guys. But I'm the one that they put it on, On. On the shoulders. Okay? I understand every day. What would Dave Roberts want? What would Jimmy Pitaro want? What would Bob Iger want? I'm not saying that those decisions are the final decisions that I make because they left it up to me.

Sure.

And sometimes I believe that my thought process, it's rare, but sometimes I believe that my thought process might be a little bit different than theirs and it might work better for this particular show. But there is never a moment that I'm on The air that I don't think about what they want. And a lot of people will sit up to you what trying to true independence is that. Stop it. The fact of the matter is you getting a check from somebody else, you have an obligation to think about them.

Sure.

And a lot of times is just like a musician. If you Jay Z, you run a Roc Nation, you're a billionaire, blah blah, blah. Do you make music just for yourself or do you think about what the audience would want? What about the record company that you. The people that you employ? Who do they think about? You know, we have the president of the United States, leader of the free world. Want to get reelected? Don't you got to think about what your constituency wants. Everyone has to think about somebody. It is absolutely silly and erroneous and disingenuous to convey a message that says otherwise.

Yeah.

And that's what I know.

That is brilliant. You said this because if everyone could take this in and realize it's about the win win. It's about how can you know. When I was playing high school ball as a freshman trying to make the varsity and I wasn't as good yet, but I was tall, so they put me in there.

Right? Right.

I would listen to the coach and say. And complaining about some of the starters who weren't hustling. He said, we need more hustle.

Yeah.

I need you guys diving for balls, jumping out of bounds. And I was just like, I'm gonna be the hustle guy. Right. I'm gonna do what he needs, what he wants so I can play and try to help him win.

Right.

And that got me on the team. It's like working for a company. It's like if you can help the company make more money and show them that they're gonna want to continue to support your growth. The win win. So this is for me, that's brilliant. And I don't think a lot of people probably think you think that way.

They don't.

So for me to know that you're thinking of like, how can I make this the best show in the world? Obviously for me, but for the company to succeed, the win win. That's why you're one of the best.

And that's why I can be in a negotiation. And I'm looking at them with a raised eyebrow. How you gonna treat me? Right. Because the names that I mentioned, along with everyone else at that company knows that about me.

Yeah.

So if you know that about me, why would you undercut me? Why would you lowball me? Why would you put me through stress and strife when you know I'm trying to do this for you. You. Because those are the things that are going to determine my tenure here. See, because you do get to a point in life where you got new regimes coming in. You got people that have been reassigned, repositioned, and they got their own vision and they want their own people. Well, they don't always tell you in corporate America, and I'm not talking about espn, I'm talking or Disney, I'm talking about in general. They don't always tell you they don't want you anymore. They just have little ways of showing.

Right.

And so when you realize that, it's incumbent upon you to say, I got the message, it's time to make new plans. And so the beauty of the business that I'm in, the business I've chosen to be in, is that instead of working around the clock trying to figure out what somebody else wants from you, good or bad, there are moments that crystallizes it for you in your mind. Pay attention and you'll see what they are.

Yeah.

And you'll know what to do accordingly. Don't be scared to leave. Don't be scared to bet on yourself. You're going to be scared anyway because it is scary. But at the same time, betting on yourself isn't always leaving. Betting on yourself is believing in you, knowing who you are, what you're worth, having an idea about it anyway and willing to work towards that to validate that reality. That's betting on yourself. Whatever decision emanates from that is based off of you looking at you and saying, I'm going for it.

Yeah.

And that's why I wrote my book, that's why I have my podcast and all of this other stuff. Because that's the point I reached.

I'm curious again. You are, and you come across extremely confident in your knowledge, your wisdom, your brilliance, and knowing you're not brilliant. All these different things. You're extremely knowledgeable. You've got decades of reps and experience. But for people that are riddled with self doubt and insecurity, you mentioned insecurities at the beginning that you used to have. How does someone overcome the doubts that come up? Whether it be the fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of other people's opinions, the fear of pleasing their parents. How do they overcome the doubts and start to gain that confidence, that self esteem like you?

Well, a couple of things. Number one, first of all, understand you're not alone, that everybody you run across has had Doubts. Everybody you've run across has had apprehension about who they are, where they're, where they are, where they're going, etc. You're not alone in situations like that. You want company. You want to feel like you're not this aberration, you're not this anomaly, standing alone by yourself in the wilderness of fear. And you're the only one that doesn't have the courage to tackle it and overcome it. That's number one. Number two, educate yourself about what you want to do. You should be scared if you're clueless. You should be scared if you're ignorant to what you want to do, why you want to do it, and how you intend to go about achieving whatever aspirations you may have. You're supposed to if you're going to overcome that fear at some point. Knowledge is a part of the equation. So educating yourself about what it is your field is, what it is your aspirations are, whatever the case may be, the minefields that lie in wait, all of these different, the potential mind fields, et cetera, et cetera, you got to know to educate yourself about those things because you have no shot at overcoming it if you don't educate yourself. And last but not least, you know, it's not just about educating yourself and knowing that you have company, but really the most important thing is really putting yourself. And it requires like a literal, not just figurative, but a literal look in the mirror, asking yourself how you will feel if you never try.

Oh.

Asking yourself, yeah, if I never try, if I don't go for this, where's that going to leave me? When you don't do that, what you have done is refrained from challenging yourself to be all you could be because there's no one that could become all they could be without looking at themselves.

Absolutely.

You know, Denzel Washington talks about consistency, the importance of consistency. You understand, you got to put in the work, you got to go for it, but you have to have consistency. Because without consistency putting in the work, the dream is nothing but a dream. Right, And I get all of that, but you have to be able to look at yourself, and you have to be able to be honest with yourself and know when you mess up. Because when you mess up, Louis, it's going to catch. What I mean when I say it's going to catch you is at some point you're going to look at you and you're going to say, I didn't try, I didn't go for it. And we know this because of relationships and various other things, but I often tell people this, particularly when it comes to relationships. Relationships come and go. Things don't work out sometimes. But there is nothing on earth worse than when you know you're the reason it messed up. See, if somebody mistreats you, if somebody that you love wants, you know, don't want you no more, but you wanted them and you trust, treated them right and blah, blah, blah, but it didn't work out. It hurts. But you'll be fine. Yeah, most people will be fine. When you're not fine is when you know it was you.

You messed up, you messed.

You heard them, you want. You wanted them, and you messed up, and you messed up. Now, if you didn't want them and you messed up, okay, because you didn't want them, perfectly logical explanation as to why you messed up. But when you wanted them and you effed up, it's no greater pain because you got to look at you and you got to say, damn, I blew this. And that's some hard, hard stuff to overcome because it lives with you. Because no matter what you have, even if it's better, you don't know it. Because you're thinking about what you lost, because you're the one who messed up. If they messed up, you ain't thinking about it like that. But if you messed up, you're always thinking about what you lost, and it's hard to move forward.

I've got a handful of questions for you left, and one of them is about. In the book Straight Shooter. Make sure you guys get the copy of the book Straight Shooter, Amazing Stories and Lessons from Stephen A. You talked about your dad, and I'm curious, the biggest lesson he taught you, whether in a good way or a bad way, that you said, I'm. This is something he did. Positive that I'm gonna do as a father or something that I'll never do as a father that he did. What is that lesson and what has he taught you about fatherhood? Now that you are a father?

The importance is two things. One positive, one negative. The positive part is he taught us the importance of laughter. Because my father was funny, really. And, you know, he was exceptional in sports, and he was an exceptional calypso dancer. He could sing, and he would make people laugh and smile all the time. He could light up a room and you know, the importance of laughter. You could bring up a lot of gifts, but somebody's ability to make other people laugh is one of the greatest gifts you could ever give anybody. That's a positive. The negative is that. And it answers the question about fatherhood. He taught me what not to be as a father. My father is in the book. It just wasn't good. I loved him, always will. But I didn't shed a tear when he was gone.

Wow.

The only reason I see him at his grave site is because he's buried next to my mother.

Wow.

If he wasn't, I wouldn't go visit him. We didn't have that good of a relationship. It's not hatred, but there is a significant and flagrant lack of respect. My lack of respect for my father has very little to do with me. It has very little to do with how he, quote unquote treated my mother. Because my philosophy is don't put your hands on a woman. He put his hands on my mother. We had killed him, but he never did that and he preached against it. So I give him credit for that. But what he did with my mother, he forced her to be the man of the house. Now, I know that's not the popular thing to say in this woke culture. I'm not apologizing for that. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing for a woman to have a career, to make money, to provide for her family. I admire it, I respect it. I throw no shade on it. But I am unapologetic about the fact that if you can afford is your responsibility as a man to provide for your family.

Especially if your wife just has six kids. You've got to take care of nurturing and feeding and it's your job.

It's your job, you understand? I mean, any help that she could give you is great, but the responsibility is supposed to be yours. And if you can't do it, you scratch, claw and even die trying. One of my favorite all time shows was the show Good Times. James Evans Sr. You know, he lived in the projects in Chicago. They had the scratch and claw. They barely had enough money to feed their family. It was a popping in the projects, but that's what they had to deal with. He was the one out there busting his butt every day to make sure that his, his wife and his children were provided for. I'm of that ilk. It means nothing to me and I mean nothing. And I'm not married. I've never been married. Even though I'll probably get married sometime in the near future. The bottom line is this. It's my responsibility and I usually say this. And even though I would take care of my wife and what have you, I have two daughters and I tell people all the time if they're hungry it's because I'm starving. I don't eat. I don't eat unless I know they eat.

Wow.

I'm not comfortable until they're comfortable. I'm not providing for me until I provide for them. When they're taken care of is when I get to take care of me. The priority is them, because they didn't ask to be here. They're mine, and they're my responsibility, and I live by that. And so to me, any man that thinks differently is not the kind of man that I respect.

Sure.

And my father was not that kind of man.

Do you feel like something unlocked inside of you when you had your first child? Because at the time, if the timeline is right, you got lost the job, and then the child was on the way. The first child. Was there a new.

She had just arrived. She had just arrived, yes.

Was there a new power, energy or something that.

It was pure fear.

Really?

It was pure fear, Lewis.

Wow.

I've never been more scared in my life. I've never been more scared in my life. I was petrified. And I held onto that because regardless of what I felt, I didn't deserve from ESPN letting me go. The reality of the situation was it was the time I was living in and I had to find a way to feed my child. It's just that simple. And I was scared to death.

Wow.

To death. I mean, I really, really, really was. I had saved up money. I saved up well over half a million dollars, and I was living off of it.

You know, you see that go down every month.

You see that go down every month, and it's dwindling. And you're like, oh, you know, it was really, really, really scary. So for me, that's what it is now. Anything that I have now is dressing. Because to me, I can give up a couple of my cribs. You know, I can give up the cars, I can give up any of that stuff. What I can never give up is making sure that my daughters are provided for.

Yeah.

That's my number one responsibility. Everything comes after because I'm a man, and that's my responsibility.

Yeah.

And if I were to get married, even though an unmarried, I'm still like that. But if I was married, I'd be even more like that. It's my job to handle my responsibility for my wife. Now, some people be like, man, please. You got some men out there that's like, hey, man, please pay some bills. What you think? I don't think like that. Because anytime I see a woman pushing and Struggling or whatever. I think about my mom and what my mother was forced to go through. And so for me, that is everything to me. You do what you want. I'm talking about what you have to do. I'm not talking about doing what you want. To me, if you are a man and you have a woman in your life, you have a family, she should have to pay bills. That's your job. That's just the way I am.

Sure. I love this. Steve, I got two final questions for you. I know you got to run here in a minute, so I'm going to wrap up with these two final questions before I ask them. Make sure you guys get straight shooter. Get the book. You can. Your. Your website is where you can probably get it. Straightshooter book.com your Stephen A. Smith everywhere on social media. Also, no mercy with Stephen A. The podcast. Make sure to check out a different side of you, a different perspective if you guys want to learn more there. But again, get the book. Some powerful stories and lessons in this book. I really recommend it. Two final questions. And again, thanks for being so open and sharing your thoughts here. This question is called the three truths question. I ask everyone at the end of the show. It's a hypothetical question scenario. Imagine you live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth and you get to accomplish everything you want to accomplish from this point moving forward. It all happens, it all plays out the way you want. But for whatever reason, everything you've ever said or written or on ESPN or the podcast for some reason has to go with you. So no one has access to your communication anymore. Your words, audio, video, that's all gone hypothetical. But you had three things you could share with the world. And this is all we have to remember are these three lessons that you have. I call them three truths. Okay, what would those three truths be for you? Again, this is off the cuff. So you weren't, you weren't prepared for this. But what, what are those three truths for you off the cuff?

I love family. I was honest as I could possibly be. And I never mean to hurt anybody.

Yeah, I love it. I would acknowledge you, Stephen A. For your creativity, for your brilliance, for your intelligence, for your wisdom, for your consistent dedication to your craft over decades, even when people didn't see the worth of the value, and you showing up and owning it and declaring it even more so. I really acknowledge you for that.

Thank you.

And I also acknowledge you for being one of the most entertaining people on tv. It's fun to Watch you. It's fun to be entertained. And your wisdom and your debate skills are incredible. So I really acknowledge you for all the gifts that you have and the talents you bring in the world and your real honestness in this book. Straight shirder. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Final question. What is your definition of greatness?

Wow. I've never been asked that before. My definition of greatness, sustained excellence. That's just the two words that come off the top of my head. Yeah, anybody could be great for a moment. Anybody could have their moment in the sun. But who you truly, truly are at a particular craft is whatever is done over a period of time. A sustained period of time. You know, to me, first take, being number one is not what I'm proud of. I'm proud of the fact that it's been 11 years straight. That's what I'm proud of. You can do a lot of things. You can't take away what I've done over the last 11 years. It's sustainable, sustained. And the fact that I was able to do that at a continuous level, that means I had to put my head down and do the work and just be about the business of being as excellent as I could possibly be on a day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out basis. And something along that way, I've proven two things. I didn't cheat anybody because I wouldn't have been able to have the sustained excellence if I did cheat, you know? And so I didn't cheat anybody. And just as important as that, I cared. Because when you're in our line of work, particularly when you've been blessed enough to make the money that I've made, it's real easy to sit up there and say, hey, I don't need this. I'm good. I got my money. I've never been that guy. And last but not least, it proved I was trustworthy. Because when an employer pays you, they don't pay you for what you've done. At least totally. In part, that may happen. Not totally. What they're paying you for is that they're projecting that it's going to continue. They can't project forward in a positive fashion without a belief in you and a trust in you. Somewhere along the way, while I was doing what I've been doing, I've shown I'm trustworthy, that you can trust that I'm going to be at the top or I'm gonna go to. I'm gonna go down swinging. And they no matter who it is. It's Disney today and ESPN Today. It could be somebody else next year, year after, whatever the case may be. Or it could just be me working for myself. But anything that I do, I'm always going to strive to be at the top of the mountain.

My man. Thanks, sir.

Appreciate it. Appreciate you.

Awesome.

That conditions the mindset and the perspective to look for good in the midst of adversity, opposition, or uncertainty. I tell people all the time, man, the easiest thing in the world to do is to be negative.

So easy.

Easiest thing in the world to do is complain. Easiest thing in the world to do is to quit. That's easy. Me and you both can walk out of this building and see.