Jojo: Live Your Passion, Use Your Voice, And Own Your Story | Lewis Howes

You can change your story, you can change your narrative whenever you want. Like, you can be a victor. You can have victory over your circumstances, and you don't have to be a product of your family of origin or whatever cards were dealt to you. You can create whatever type of life you want, and it can be amazing.

All right, welcome back everyone on the School of Greatness podcast. We have the inspirational and iconic JoJo in the house. Thank you. So glad you're here.

I'm so happy to be here.

We've been connected on Instagram for probably a year or two, at least. And Billie Jean connected us.

One of my besties in the world.

One of your besties, a guy that I've been getting close with over the last three years. Good guy. And we're finally here, so I'm super excited.

I'm so excited because I've been subscribed to this podcast for a long time, and I just, I love all the little jewels of inspiration and wisdom that I get from not only you, but the guests you have on. And it's just, it's so delicious to me.

It's soul food. Soul food, that's what it's about.

I'm so excited. Do you listen to a lot of podcasts? I do, I love podcasts. Whether I'm working out, or I'm getting ready, or driving, and I love sharing them with my friends and family. It's awesome.

Now, you have an amazing story and you remind me a little bit of Leanne Rhimes.

Okay.

When I had Leanne on, she talked about how when she was a teenager, she became so world famous pre-social media.

Yeah.

And this kind of happened to you as well. You were, you know, a young teen that was a superstar before social media. If there was social media then, where do you think your life would be if it was like, not only all over the press, but then all over everyone's social media channels.

Oh, well, when I came out, Myspace is really where we launched my music. So Myspace was like a huge deal for me and connecting with my fans. But, I mean, I think now, if you're just first coming out, you have to really take advantage of all the different platforms. And it's not that you have to, it's fun, but you just kind of have to be more spread out. Yeah. I didn't really have to. You had one platform there. Yeah.

MySpace.

Yeah.

So interesting. Pre-Facebook, pre-all that stuff. Yeah.

People were on Facebook, but it was college kids and I wasn't a college kid. You couldn't even get on there. Couldn't even get on there. I mean, I was 12 when I recorded my album 13 when it came out and when my life changed. So, I dig social media right now and I'm actually quite quite glad that it wasn't such a big part of my early teenage years because it must be so hard being a younger person and like feeling that that is what validates you. And being in the music industry is weird enough so...

It's already weird enough. But so many kids, their teens are getting their self-worth from likes and engagement and everything like that. Do you feel like your life would have been more screwed up? Not that it was screwed up, but you feel like It would have been much more harder to being, you know, a celebrity famous on tour, all this stuff happening as a teenager and...

I think so actually.

Why didn't people like this or I need to be more sexual or whatever it is.

I think so. I think that if I was... Because it's really hard to not, I mean to resist the temptation of reading all the comments and seeing what the feedback is. So, I think that if I was a young teen, like I was when I came out and I had that, It would very much shape how I felt about myself and influence who I became.

How do you feel about yourself now?

I dig myself.

Yeah. Have you always dug yourself?

No. No, there were times I did not dig myself. It's such a journey. I think because I had such incredible success at a young age, that gave me a sense of self that was like related to a number one and related to adulation and acclaim and applause and attention. Awards and yeah all of that and I needed to define myself outside of that when I was like tied up in a legal situation with my former label to where I couldn't release music and I wasn't shutting down malls anymore and I wasn't the most famous person wherever I'd go. Like people had surpassed me that used to open for me.

How does that feel?

It felt embarrassing. Really? I mean there are other words too but that's like the first one that comes to mind if I'm just being honest.

When you're the main attraction, when you're the lead and then other people are just excited to be there and open for you and then they Now they're the leading you're opening or you're not even there.

It made me feel awkward, embarrassed and like, because I felt like my career at that point was out of my control. I hated that feeling. So it made me just kind of want to retreat because of all those things.

Because this is still a time when independent artists weren't putting out music on their own. This was like pre-Macklemore, pre like, All these individuals who are having control of their music, right? This pre-Spotify, so you really had to rely on the record label, I'm assuming.

Well, it was unfortunate because I, I like wished that I could be independent at that time. But I was, you know, contracts are legally binding, so I like could not, I did not own my voice. I could not make decisions on what to do with my recorded voice.

That's crazy.

So I could tour, so I stayed afloat doing that. I connected with my fans and it kept me feeling energized because otherwise I just felt so isolated not being able to release new music.

So you kept singing the same songs?

Singing the same songs.

To the same audience sizes or smaller intimate?

It kept getting more intimate. It kept getting more intimate and I needed to find the like how really what I realized is that I have some ride or dies.

Fans.

Yes, super die-hard. Yeah. But like you mentioned, independent artists weren't as poppin' as they are right now. But I was able to do something that I took a page out of what I saw people in hip hop doing a lot more and I put out mixtapes for free and I just put them directly on the internet, whether it was SoundCloud or whatever.

Napster back then?

Not Napster, I'm not that old. But it was definitely... SoundCloud. SoundCloud. So I had a few mixtapes and I was able to Speak directly to my fans that way. For free. For free. The first one being called Can't Take that Away from Me, which was a statement of just like, okay, label or powers that be, you can't take away this relationship that I've built with my fans and music and my love for it. And then Agape, which means unconditional love. And then a Love Joe series of just like a few songs here and there.

Wow, have you been to Agape?

I haven't.

With church?

Have you?

I've been there once, Michael Beckwith, who's the-- I love Michael Beckwith. He's amazing.

He came on the show earlier this.

Year and I went and watched it.

And there was a-- oh, I have to hear that.

Oh, it's mind-blowing, yeah. I have a lot of respect for what they do over there, but-- you- should go sing over there.

Oh, do they have-- oh yeah, they.

Have a whole choir and different performers come and sing. It'd be amazing for you. Oh, that's right up your alley. On a Sunday, it's like all soul food. That's right up your alley.

Just do some jazz or do one of your songs, whatever you wanna do. You can just be creative there. That's cool. I'll make an intro if you want. Please do.

That's cool, you have a song called Agape.

I have an album called, a project called Agape, 'cause my dog's name is Agape.

Oh my gosh.

Because I just love that word.

It's a great word.

It's unconditional love and that's what I feel for music. I really don't care for the industry. It's just, it's mad yucky, but I love music so much. We love music.

Did you, when you were pre-12, did you have this dream that this is the life? that would unfold for you. Like you were gonna be the superstar, your songs were gonna be out there in the world, and then there would be this control over you.

No, didn't envision that part. That wasn't part of my vision.

But you dreamed of like, I'm putting my music out in the world, my creativity.

I saw it so clear in my mind. It was just, I knew from a young age, I feel so lucky because some people don't know what they're passionate about. I never had to really think about it that much. I had other interests. I liked dinosaurs and I liked, you know, cats and stuff, but no, like music was just always-- Like when did.

You have that vision?

Oh, as long as I can remember.

Like four or five years old.

Exactly, yeah.

You're like, I'm gonna get my songs on stages.

I'm gonna be a radio-- I saw Mariah Carey performing. God, she's so-- and just being so glamorous and exceptionally talented. And I was just like, I wanna be a diva. I wanted that. I loved entertaining family friends who would come over. and anybody who would listen. You know, my aunt would go to the nail salon. I would ask the ladies what their favorite songs were, and I just always wanted to perform.

Would you perform at the salon?

Yeah.

Really?

I mean, we would go into, I'm from South of Boston, so I would ask my mom from the age of like seven if we could go into the city, 'cause I saw people putting out hats.

Basking, yeah.

And I would put out hats and sing on the street. I swear to God, My parents were not stage parents. Like, I was a weird, precocious little kid. You'd go by yourself?

No, no.

My mom would come with me.

Would she film ever?

No, we didn't. That'd be amazing if you had some footage. I know. I was such a fearless little girl. Wow. Because I think that's what it takes to especially have such an early entrance into it. Yeah.

You just need to just love it. Did you ever feel like you were.

Afraid after you became this...

Yes.

When did that happen? Yeah, fear came into my life, I think, probably when I was making my second album, because I had so much success with the first one. And it was just a difference of a few years. 12 recording the first one and then 14 recording the 14-15 recording the second one. But I was like, it's that sophomore thing of how can I, I don't think I wanted to top it, but I wanted to, have another hit.

--Match.

--And thankfully, yeah, and thankfully I did. We had a huge song with Too Little, Too Late, and that took me around the world once again. --That's awesome. --And that was dope. But fear really like crept in after I turned 18, and I'm like, wow, look at the clock ticking. Like I feel like at 18.

--At 18.

--Because I think I had seen so much from a young age that As I started to like not be the youngest in the room anymore, it just started to freak me out and I needed to, it took me years to change my perspective on that and to not compare my journey to others.

Isn't that interesting? I remember in high school I was always on varsity sports teams as a freshman sophomore. I was the young one.

Right. Right?

And I would always start and I was always the youngest starter. So all the juniors and seniors would play and then the young one. And I was one of the better athletes, so I was always kind of an all-star on the team at a young age. And I remember becoming a senior and having more fear because I didn't have, I don't know what it was. It was like a cushion or something where I had to be the one to have to perform all the time.

Yes.

And had to deliver every time. And there was a lot more pressure on me.

Because now you were an old, a young OG.

And I always felt like the youngest, but now I wasn't the Right, so.

Now it's also not as glittery and exciting because there was all this shine on you for being the youngest and now it's like oh I just need to be excellent now.

Am I gonna be better and better?

Yes.

I gotta reach this potential from a young age. So you have how long did this fear stay with you after 18?

How many years or... Mmm, a good 10 years. I'm just shaking it now.

Really?

Yeah, I just... Did it get worse? Yeah.

Every year.

I can't say it was every year, but there's so many ups and downs because I developed what I would call a situational depression that has, you know, that I've kind of ridden the wave of when I filed my lawsuit for the first time against my record label so I could get the rights to my voice back and be able to continue on with my career since they weren't a functioning label anymore.

So give people context for they don't know what happened How old were you?

I was 18 when I sued them for the first time because they were in breach of contract. We weren't able to... I had delivered several versions of a third album to them and there was just no...

They didn't want it or they didn't want to put it out?

They didn't have the means to put it out. They didn't have distribution anymore and it was just a whole bummer of a situation. I really thought that we would just ride off into the sunset together because these were my father figures. They were my uncles. They were my mentors. So I never wanted to like, who wants to be in a lawsuit? It sucks. So horrible. We tried to work it out for a while, but I was tied up in a legal battle with them for about five years. So at 23, I took a lot on. I was like, what could I have done differently? Or But it really did, I don't want to be over dramatic about it, but it was a bit traumatic for me.

It's very traumatic.

I felt so out of control and nothing's really in our control, but I was just so disappointed and so hurt that we couldn't make things work and like do all these great things together. Because all I've wanted to do since I was a little kid is work and perform and Connect with people, and I felt like that was taken away from me. So, I was very upset.

--'Cause you couldn't release your art to the world because of the contract.

--Right, right. And it wasn't just about creative control, 'cause I wasn't like putting a hard line of sand and being like, no, I want to make a, you know...

--A jazz record or something.

--Right, I want to do some left stuff. It wasn't that. I was like, I was really down to try, at least from my perspective. So, Anyway, thankfully that is not going on anymore, but it created a lot of like agitation within me and upset. And again, like I mentioned, seeing people that had told me that I was the reason why they started singing and that they, you know, grew up learning how to sing through listening to my songs and stuff and then seeing them reach the heights of their career while I felt like this caged bird.

So you saw young superstars become mega stars.

Yes.

And say to you, you,'re the reason I started this.

Yeah, and that's obviously such an amazing thing to hear.

It's inspiring, but you also wanna see yourself.

Correct, I wanna see the top two. Yeah, yeah, I was like, I really don't like being this thing that like this kid that can't play in this playground that I love. Yeah, yeah. And I was just not comfortable with being a afterthought.

Gosh, I feel like Olympic gymnasts, I feel like have some of the hardest lives who are like Olympic gold medalists when they're 15, 16, very similar to your situation when you're on this global stage as a teenager and you reach the top.

Like, where do you go?

Where do you go for the next 80 years of your life or whatever? It's like, I feel like that's one of the hardest things to overcome. I'm not saying it's, I mean, poor them for having a gold medal, but it's a different type of adversity you have to face.

Right, right, and it's not a-- It's.

A first world problem, but the inner battles that you face are extreme when you reach those levels.

Exactly. But I think that the payoff that can come if you are able to like change your perspective and have a new idea of what success is or just keeping your blinders on and saying, okay, so I. That's amazing. I've accomplished that. But what's next?

Just not focusing on the past so much.

Yeah, it sucks.

Yeah, it does suck. What was the biggest lesson for you from, I guess, 12 to 18, when it was? this explosion of attention and acknowledgement and hits and opportunities. What was the lesson for you during that time? And then what was the lesson from '18 to now? As you're rising to the top and then as you're transitioning from figuring out this lawsuit to reinventing yourself to identity to everything.

The biggest lesson in my teenage years, I guess, were was I would say you can't take things personally. I think I learned that pretty young. That everybody's gonna do what's best for them and things are gonna make sense in their mind. No one's a villain in their own mind. Like people are doing what seems like the right thing to them, in my opinion. And you just can't take things too personally. I think I did learn that. I also learned that... You take a.

Lot of things personally?

Yeah, yeah, 'cause everything was about me. I mean, I felt like I was the center of my universe, I was. You know, I was not only like this young girl, but I was a product and I was a Brand and a business.

Yeah.

So it was just interesting to think about all that. But I also learned that people will say they love you and you need to be able to use your discernment to realize when that's true and when it's not. I mean, I don't know if it's as much in your industry, but like, you know, you live out here in LA and people just love to throw that around and that can be a painful thing, especially when you come from a broken home, and you want love, and you want family.

And you feel it as true when they say, I love you. You're like, okay, this means something deeper than just, I love you, friend.

Yeah.

Friendly thing.

Or I love you if this continues to be lucrative for me or whatever. So I guess that plays into what I said about like not taking things personally, but discernment, like developing discernment, I think, from a young age.

I feel like you just have to go through heartache to experience and learn discernment. It's hard to be discerning without going through the challenges, I feel like.

I agree.

Without people hurting you or disappointing you or expectations not being met.

I agree.

You got to go through it. Unfortunately, you had to go through it at an extreme level of probably betrayal and backstabbing and who knows what.

And then to answer your question, I think the lesson that I've learned from 18 to now in the last 10 years is Nobody is, you have to save yourself. You can change your story, you can change your narrative whenever you want. You can be a victor. You can have victory over your circumstances and you don't have to be a product of your family of origin or whatever cards were dealt to you, you create whatever type of life you want and it can be amazing.

Do you feel like no one was there to save you, you mean, or no one was there really had your back or it's gonna help you? You had to help yourself?

I do feel like I needed to help myself. Yeah, I think that maybe there was a lack of... I didn't feel supported in my situation.

By who? By friends, family, industry people.

By more industry people. I think they just felt like it was this thing that I was never gonna get out of. So they just were like, She's a smart girl, maybe she'll go off to college.

She had a nice run. Yeah. And we're on to the next.

On to the next.

On to the next young product.

Exactly. Wow. Yeah.

Probably makes you feel a little used.

I guess so. Yeah, it just made me feel What is my worth if I'm not that?

So how did you learn to create your own self-worth when people in the industry didn't think you were as valuable for a period of time?

I had to... so much trial and error and introspection and seeking God in different ways and I think focusing my energy in different places, whether it was like learning how to be in a relationship or exploring different interests of mine, or working on myself, becoming a student again of a voice, like studying how to sing properly for the first time, because things had come naturally to me. I needed to be proud of myself. in different areas. I needed to have little things that I could be like, okay, I'm making progress in this area. Or even like, I was asthmatic as a kid and over the past few years, I've like gotten really into fitness and wellness and now I can... this is a thing for me. Now I can run a mile and that's good. And I eventually want to do a 5K and maybe one day do a marathon.

All right.

I have to just have these incremental goals that make me feel like I'm capable and really whatever I put my mind to, I can see.

For young girls, teenagers or pre-teens in the social media world that deal with a lot of comparison, that deal with a lot of they're not sexy enough or good enough or talented enough, what advice would you have for them to develop self-worth throughout their teens and 20s?

Comparison is the thief of joy.

Yeah, Einstein's right? Didn't he say that, I think?

I think so. I love Einstein.

It robs you.

It robs you of joy.

So much.

We get to make a choice about how we see things and I think social media can be really detrimental, especially to an impressionable mind. And I'm not I'm not above that. Like I'm still have the capacity to be hurt by things and be, you know, have impressions laid on me. But particularly for younger girls, I would say turn off the comments maybe. Like you cannot have your self-worth attached to the number of likes you get. or to what boys respond to or what girls respond to or you have to find a way to feel good about yourself.

How can they do that?

I know, I know.

If you could go back to 14, 15, 16 JoJo, what would you say to her about developing self-worth that wasn't attached to accomplishments, likes, boys flirting with you, all those things? Is it mastering of a new skill? like you said, is finding a goal and seeing yourself overcome something challenging.

It's like when you make a commitment to yourself about something, it's seeing that through, honoring that. Being a good person, I think, is the most rewarding feeling. Being a good friend, knowing that you are somebody who people can rely on and lean on and Making yourself proud though, like I don't think that girls are really feeling proud of like sexualization of them. I don't think that makes them, it's not gonna bolster your self-worth. So whatever that might be, work on things outside of the exterior, whether it's you finding a hobby that you love or reading or religion, spirituality, whatever. Try to just really cultivate all the parts of you that make you unique because it's so much doper to be yourself like that radiates in such a wonderful way. When you get to know yourself and you spend time in solitude, and as a teenager you probably don't want to spend time in solitude, you want to be social and stuff, but you gotta like who you are. And again, I guess I don't really have the best advice as to how to do that, but journaling is a great idea, a great stream of consciousness. see what's in your mind and it's okay if some insecure thoughts come in, but you can take responsibility for that second thought and say, that's not true. But comparison is the thief of joy. I still do it sometimes, but I really check myself now. I pay attention to what thoughts are coming in my head. I try to replace them with something else.

Really? Did you always do that?

No.

Did you just allow negative thoughts to kind of run your mind for a while?

Yes, and I've been on this like a journey of trying to just consume inspiring stuff like your podcast and I love Oprah's Super Soul Conversations. I love reading Wayne Dyer. I love Tony Robbins. I mean all this stuff is really great tools and I don't know that I would have utilized it as much as as a teenager, I think that just with time, I was just like, I really want to take more responsibility for my projection of like how I see myself and what I want for myself in the future. So these are just tools that I've tried to adopt through listening to people who I respect, who have done great things, and I guess modeling what they're talking about.

What is the challenge you face with being in an intimate relationship as someone with fame and touring and opportunities? How do you navigate that being in relationships?

I can be a really great girlfriend and I can also be very selfish.

You have to be if you want to achieve something at this level, right?

I think so.

You have to be selfish. to put time and energy into mastering your craft, touring all the things you gotta do.

Yeah, so that.

So there are periods of time where you've gotta be really selfish.

And that can be a challenge when you're trying to cultivate something meaningful.

So how do you do it?

I have made so many mistakes along the way. And I think I'm just learning how to be in relationship with myself. I think, what was Emma, I forget her last name, but she, plays Hermione, and she said that she's in a self, she's self partnered. Emma Roberts? No, Stone.

Emma. What's her name?

From Harry Potter?

Watson. Watson, there we go.

Emma Watson, yeah.

She's amazing.

I love what she said about being self partnered. She said she's in a self relationship, right? Self partnered. It's amazing. Because I didn't trust myself in relationships, because so I'm single right now, and I'm self partnered, but I didn't trust myself because I knew that I was, Because of the insecurities that I mentioned a little bit that I developed and the anxiety about not being as desirable in the marketplace or whatever, I knew that I had the potential to seek validation through the attention of other men.

Wow.

'Cause it feels good. 'Cause it feels good, it made me feel high. And it's not that I would, even if this was what I did, this just wasn't what I did, but even if I was sleeping with a bunch.

Of people.

Which wasn't the case. It was just like I would allow myself to entertain when it wasn't appropriate. And I learned that that's really not cool. It's not cool. It's not something I can look at myself in the mirror and feel good about. So how do I balance? I think, so I'm sorry, FaceTime is a game changer. As I'm sure you know, being in.

A long distance-- I was in a long distance relationship for like 10 months and she just moved in.

Okay.

Like a week ago.

Woo!

Yeah, Christmas Day actually.

Yeah.

FaceTime was a game changer. It was like every day for, you know, a few times a day we'd check in for 10-20 minutes or whatever and I don't think we'd be together without FaceTime.

Yo, thank God for FaceTime. Like, I was, I love to tour, I love being on the road and it was really nice to, when I, was in my last relationship, be able to like take him with me when he couldn't, you know, be marked all the time. Yeah, here's my sound guy, Earth says, what's up? Like, you know, and just he was able to develop relationships with my crew even when he wasn't there. And that's so meaningful to me because I love to integrate my worlds, like my friends and family and my boo and, you know, all of it.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, so FaceTime is a game changer.

Do you feel like, in the future? I don't know. You've probably seen relationships with musicians. Most of them not work and some of them maybe they do work. Do you have to almost tour with people for periods of time in order to make it work or does that make it worse?

Oh, you mean if you're dating a person and you guys are like on a tour together?

Do you need to be like, if you're on tour for a year and you only see them like two months or something, is that gonna work or does a person need to go on tour with you for periods of time? if you're gonna make this work. What have you seen with other people in the industry? 'Cause it seems like most musicians don't work out.

I know, it's really tough.

Are there any? I mean, I don't even know. Jay-Z maybe and Beyonce, right?

Right, right. And they co-headline tours together. It's so ill. I mean, the fact that they're able to bring their family with them, they have the kids, I mean, that's ultimate goals.

But who else is married after 10 years?

I mean, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. It's really, really cool.

They probably travel a little bit too.

Don'T they, or no? I don't know. I don't know what their touring life is, but I think that anything you really want to dedicate yourself to, if you're really committed to it... You'll figure it out. You'll figure it out. But I don't want to go, I personally don't want to go six weeks without seeing my person.

I can't go on two and a half. It's about the limit for me. Two weeks, that's what I did. Every two weeks we would visit. I would visit Mexico City a lot. And I was there 15 times this last year. Wow.

See, y'all made it work.

And then she was able to come out towards the end of her job. She had some time off, so she came to visit me more. But it's rough. After three weeks, it's kind of like... I know. Out of sight, it gets like...

It can get really prickly.

And then I don't like being on the phone.

I'm like sick of it.

I don't like being on the phone.

I don't want to be on long. I don't like being on the phone, but I need to feel connected and I need I need that skin to skin contact too. I need to like be able to hold your hand and like, are you a real person? So I think that like when I think about my future, my ideal situation, I would love for them to be able to come out a few times, but also he needs to have his own thing in life.

Because if he's just touring with you and just dancing.

I don't respect that.

It's not sexy.

It's not sexy.

You want him to have his own thing.

Yes, yes. So.

You wanna respect is one of the most powerful things in a relationship. Once you lose respect, it's over, I feel like.

It's true.

And you respect someone based on how they're following their career or their dreams or how they're taking care of themselves, not because they need you.

Exactly. Even if they establish boundaries and they're like, I won't be able to come see you because I'm finishing this project or I have to be over here or whatever. Like as annoying as it is, That's hot.

Yeah. Sexy, right?

Yeah.

You're like, dang, go do your thing.

It's inspiring, yeah, go do your thing.

That's cool.

But until then, until that moment, that self-partnership is something I'm really working on because I just want to feel totally comfortable with in this skin and date myself. I take myself to go hear live music, to the opera, or I'm honoring What feels good?

That's amazing.

That feels nice.

I remember in my 20s, I was afraid to be alone for a long time.

I've been serial monogamist.

I needed to be in a relationship or with someone, like constantly. And then there was a period of time where I just said, this is crippling me. It's crippling me, like the insecurity of being alone. So for a couple of years, I said, I'm gonna be alone for everything. I'm gonna go to the movies alone, dinner alone, lunch alone.

Wow, you took it to the extreme.

And I do everything extreme. Yeah, it's like I'm going to do this Wim Hof thing and right. And it was the best time. The first few months was the most miserable, but then after six months a year, I just wanted to be alone all the time.

Yeah.

I fell in love with my thoughts, with just connecting with people out, but not meeting a partner.

I know, I think I know exactly what you mean.

It's an amazing feeling.

A few years ago, I started taking these solo retreats, kind of self-guided. And the first time I did it, I went to, I just went to the beach just right here, rented an Airbnb and was silent for the week.

Wow.

And just, no phone or? No phone. I was just journaling, reading, and listening to music. And like, I got all my groceries and just like ate everything in. Just was in nature and it was a really, it was a gift to myself. And then I started doing that at least once a year. So I went to Sedona. That's like my favorite place to go do that. And Joshua Tree. I love these places that feel real energetic. But while I was making this, this album that's coming out this year, I was actually committed to not dating anyone. and being abstinent and just, I was like... For how long? For like 10 months.

Wow.

Because I wanted to prove to myself that it was all good, it was cool to do. And I also think that maybe more so as a woman, or me as a me, I just didn't want to Share any power with anybody else. I wanted all my creativity and all my sensuality and all that passion to be channeled into music. I didn't want it to be split up at all.

How do you think it worked out?

I think it's great. I love this music and I think it was it made me feel even more feminine actually to not be with anybody and to like I just loved saying yes to dates but saying no to anything else.

So you go have fun and hang.

Out and yeah, I can be friends and stuff but I just really wanted to keep that to myself for a while and I think it helped the music actually.

I have friends who've gone years or months without sex, right? And they always seem to create the most beautiful works of art in that time of channeling their energy towards that thing and not spreading it around in other ways. Whether it be sex or drugs or alcohol, like everything, right? I think it's really powerful when people can do that because you can create some great stuff.

Yeah.

I'm curious, when was the moment or moments that were the most powerful for you on stage? Do you remember like, I don't know, New York City or Sydney or wherever you were just like, wow, it was electric. You came off the stage, we thought you had your best vocal performance, your best emotional performance. Are there any of those that you have?

Yeah, there's a couple that I want to Highlight. When I was a teenager, I was in Brazil. It was my first time like playing a stadium. It was a festival. My first festival.

Well, like 100,000 people, 50,000 people.

Yeah, like a soccer stadium. You know, however many that is.

Oh my gosh.

And what was so moving for me was just the power of music and how it because it wasn't like Rio. It wasn't one of the major cities. It was a smaller, it was a big city, but it was a smaller city. where not everybody spoke English. And just to hear the audience singing the words of my songs back to me.

Really? They didn't speak English probably.

Yeah, I mean, I certainly don't speak Portuguese. I was just so moved that even like the deeper cuts from my albums they were singing. I was just like, wow, music is so powerful bringing people together from all around the world. and it just feels good. You don't even know what it means necessarily. Like there's this artist Rosalia and she sings in, I'm pretty sure she sings in Spanish. And I don't know what she's saying but it's just so beautiful, good and so moving. And then a very special moment I had a couple tours ago. My father had just passed and I was just starting a tour and I was Just so devastated. I wasn't sure how I was gonna put on any type of good show, like at all, because I was just so fragile. I just wanted to cry constantly. But, and I have this song that's about my dad that I was performing in my set. And when I did break down for the first time.

--On stage?

--On stage.

--How do you even sing it, right?

You're like, --I didn't sound good. I sounded like a turkey, like dying. And so I just took a moment and the audience sang it for me. It was just like out of a movie. Like I just saw Judy, the movie about Judy Garland, and I think she got choked up on stage and the audience and someone was saying, that seems so unrealistic. I'm like, it's not.

Oh my gosh. It happened. Wow.

It happened and it's happened a few times. Like if I've lost my voice, if I've you know, overdone it or something with the schedule. And that's just...

They'll sing it for you.

My fans are off the chain. They are so amazing. So, I'll never forget that because they kept me going during that time. And I was able to finish the tour because during the meet and greets, they would come up to me and share their stories and the connection, just the humanness. I just love being, I love this human experience.

-Is humanity amazing?

-Yeah. People are really beautiful.

-Beautiful people. I'm curious. So this was what? 15-16 in Brazil?

-Yeah.

-16, 17. -She's about 26 with your dad.

-Yeah.

-So a 10-year gap, essentially. One is at the height of your career. One is at a low moment in your personal life. What was the routine like on both of those days, if you remember? two hours before or the morning of to have this massive experience in Brazil and also this emotional experience.

So that was my first time to the country of Brazil and trying to think of the routine. It felt very standard. You know, you'd go in for sound check, you do, musicians are doing their thing and meet and greet and Before, right? Yeah. Meeting group before, doing your radio obligations and stuff. I was much less, I took like my vocal health a lot less seriously as a teenager, 'cause it just came to me.

It was like I can just sing whatever.

Yeah.

10 minutes to warm up.

I didn't work out, it was nothing like that. So, Eat whatever, dairy, yeah. Exactly, I was just doing whatever I wanted. So my preparation now before shows looks a lot different. Like I really like to hype myself up. I like to work out when I'm on the road. I like to find a local coffee shop. These are just things that ground me and make me feel happy. And I do warm-ups before and then I warm down after and that's just something that because routine is important. And because I didn't have like a normal childhood, I didn't really have routine. So I've learned about routines actually through watching other people, watching people on YouTube. Like, what's your healthy nighttime routine? Because I'm still looking at my phone, you know, I just had to like develop these things.

Um, but... What's a non-negotiable for you on a day of a performance?

Non-negotiable is getting my heart rate up. Like a workout or... A workout is ideal, but even if I can't get a full workout in, I will watch something on YouTube and like follow that. And even if it's just some push-ups and sit-ups like I have to feel strong. I have to feel physically capable. I have to stretch. Yeah, I think feeling physically strong because as a singer it's a muscular thing as well. And I just feel more powerful when I feel strong and agile and flexible.

I tell you what, there's something about singing that when you, I started taking vocal lessons last year.

Who are you training with? Someone out here? Yeah.

Valerie Morehouse? Is it Morehouse?

Valerie.

Is it Val?

It's been a year.

Yeah, she works with Sia.

Vocal manipulation? Or maybe it's someone else.

Oh my gosh.

Well good for you. Are you trying to get into voiceover?

No, no, I just wanted to like challenge myself. Because I'm afraid to sing in public and I like never do it. I can't wait to see this. So I was like okay, I want to over come. 'cause I think that building self-worth is when we challenge ourselves on our fears. So every year I try to do something new that I'm afraid of or just not fully comfortable or confident with. And singing has always been something where I can play campfire songs and guitar a little bit and not that good, but it just never felt like I had control over my voice. And the more I use it on the podcast, I start to lose it after a couple hours, like two or three interviews in a row, I feel like a scratchy, So let me just go do some lessons and see what I can learn. And I need to get back there.

And I need to get those muscles around.

So I need to go back and start doing it. I probably did it for three months and it was powerful because I recorded every session I have on my phone. The first few, I'm like dripping sweat, so nervous singing to this teacher. And then by month three, I just have so much more confidence and poise and grace and control.

Good for you for subjecting yourself to that when it's not like you had like, something coming up where you're like, I need to prepare for this. No, that's cool.

I just want to challenge myself.

I love the idea of facing fears too because then it just the way if you do this in one area, you can do it in any area. So my friend asked me if I wanted to go skydiving and like, no, no, I don't but like I should.

Did you do it?

No, we were gonna go. He's super sick right now but we're gonna go. I'm gonna do it.

You are?

Terrified, but I want to do it because, you know, just want to take that leap.

That's scary. My girlfriend wants to do it so bad, and I'm like, I don't want to do it.

Why?

I think it's.

But you want to go climb the Alps with ice in it?

It's just a much more of a. I think it's just. It's a bigger risk of a fear.

I feel like skydiving.

There's more of a risk. What if it doesn't open up? And I also get really nauseous with, like, roller coasters. I get. really dizzy, seasick.

You don't want to throw up all over yourself in the sky.

Here's the thing, I faced a big fear two years ago. I went on Blue Angels, like a Navy jet, which is like this, we went like 6G, they're going upside down, it's like a crazy jet. And no space bubble with a pilot in front of me, like from top gun. get you out like that. So I went in one of those. And it was the most miserable. I did it because it was a fear of mine. And it was the most miserable for three days afterwards. My equilibrium was off. I couldn't. I was just laying in the fetal position because it took so much energy out of me. The dizziness. I threw up twice in the plane. It was just like, get me out. Well, and so I don't. Don't want to put myself through something like that.

Yeah, you. You know yourself, you know us.

Not trying. I tried it, you know, but I think one day I'm gonna have to jump out of a plane. I just don't wanna die not trying it. I just don't know if it's this. You also don't wanna die trying. I don't wanna die trying. I wanna do some more stuff in my life first. So we'll see.

She really wants to do it, but maybe when you do it, I'll be inspired by watching your video. I'm definitely hoping that there's a GoPro strapped to me and that when I pass out, it'll be chronicled. But yeah, I just like, I want to face those fears and push through because I really believe in pushing through.

What is the goal for your new decade? You're about to hit 30 in a year. And it's a new decade. It's a new decade in the world and it's almost a decade for you.

Yeah, this is the last year of my 20s, so better make it count.

What's the vision moving forward? You've had so much in your teens and 20s, ups and downs.

The vision moving forward is to put out the best music of my career and to touch as many people as possible through my music. And then find a way to to make things a little bit less about me in other areas of my life. I really want to get involved in volunteering with charity and I want to do it in a meaningful way other than just singing at an event or lending money. I need to get clear on what that is. And for me, it's about making myself proud. Like I mentioned.

--What would it take for you to make yourself more proud?

--Well, preparedness is a big thing. And I love to prepare. I love to feel good about that. But I want to be impressed with my performances. I want to be impressed with my voice. And I want to do everything I can to set myself up to be happy with it because I am so hard on myself.

You have one of the best voices in the world. How are you not impressed?

Thank you for saying that.

I'm not.

I am, I don't... You're not impressed with your voice? Most times I'm not. I mean, I will walk off stage and be like, God, why do I suck so bad? Really? Yeah, yeah. Because I just don't think about, because I'm able to celebrate the greatness of other people. Like, I'm like, oh my gosh, the.

Voice on this woman and her stage presence --Who's got the best voices out right now?

--Best voices that you admire. --I mean all around Beyonce is the strongest entertainer and singer that's alive. I just think she's so incredible. --There are a lot of great voices right now. I think Ariana Grande has an amazing voice. --She's amazing. --I think they're I mean my girl Tori Kelly --Tori is unreal. --Demie Lovato, Jesse J.

There are some great great voices. Yeah, yeah, see ya.

Yeah, see ya. So many. So I can just, when people are like, oh, it's not a good time for music or people aren't singing, I'm like, are you listening? 'Cause there's some dope stuff going on. So anyway, I want to be proud of what I'm putting out, and I want to, I want the music to reach as many people as possible. So I want to tour more internationally, I want to tour more here, and continue to continue to make myself proud.

I'm gonna throw something at you and see if you're into it.

Okay.

Would you be open to sharing from your teens, your 20s, and now into the next decade, three different lyrics that define those decades for you.

-Oh, wow.

-So, from your teen decade, what's like a sentence or a line from one of your songs or a song that you like in the world that defines that decade, then another song line or chorus or whatever for 20s, and then your vision for what you want to create, whether this is a song that you have or You know, Beyonce song or whatever that's the next decade. And would you be open to singing them? It doesn't have to be the whole song, but just like a line or like a chorus or...

I would think that my teenage years were like... I mean this song will probably never it's always gonna be with me, but it would probably be Get up right now. Because I had to, I feel like that chapter was defined by that song and it's a little too late as well, but trying to move away from it and then also having to actually Like have that lawsuit and get things out of the way. And then for this current decade that I'm in?

20S.

20S. What is the what has that been? That has been like maybe a Joni Mitchell lyric.

Oh man, Case of youf is my favorite Joni Mitchell song.

I drink Case of youf. I got a new bag!

Still be on my feet.

I would still be on my feet.

What a song. Gosh. Her song with River, too.

Oh, I I would.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. She's so good.

Wow. Maybe. Okay, I think I've just, like, come to terms with. I I love this lyric from Free Man in Paris, which is. like the way I see it, he say, you just can't win it. Everybody's in it for their own gain. You can't please them all. There's always somebody calling you down. I do my best and I do good business. There's a lot of people asking for my time, trying to get ahead, trying to be a good friend of mine. But I was a free man in Paris. I felt unfettered and alive. Anyway, it's about finding freedom, finding your personal freedom, your personal sanctuary. For her, that's Paris. For me, that's Sedona. Or that's driving to the beach. Just kind of realizing that people are gonna do what they're gonna do, but you can put yourself in a bubble and find freedom even if you feel like a caged bird.

Wow.

And my vision for the future would be.

We will rock you.

I don't know. The first thing that comes to mind, and this is probably silly, but it's like Beyonce, I'm feeling myself. I'm feeling myself. I'm feeling myself. You know, I just want to continue to sink into who I am and I hear that the 30s are even better. You know, as I'm approaching the end of my 20s, I'm getting more comfortable and I'm giving less F's and I just want to, you know, I want that confidence to, I want to keep riding that wave.

I love those. Those are good. I love those.

Thanks.

Imagine this is your last day on this planet. and you're 100 and something years old. And your voice is even better.

Oh, my man.

It gets better every year and stronger and more feminine and powerful, everything.

And.

The entire world puts on headphones and they get to listen to you for 30 seconds. And you have to sing something that would be a reflection of your entire life or something that you would want the world to to listen to you for the last time. What would be something that you would sing that if everyone put the headphones on and they got to listen to you for 30 seconds in one moment of time and it's your last day, what would you want the world to hear?

That is a really hard question. I want to have a, I want to have a, I want to say the right thing and really consider this. What would it be? Maybe I would want people to feel the love that I have for other people and for music. And the first thing that comes to mind is The song I have from my album Mad Love, which is called Music. And the chorus is, it's like, Tell me who, who would I be without you? No matter how much we lose every night, I spend my life on you. Tell me who, who would I be without you? Would I be without you? No matter how much we lose every night I've been my life on you. Would I be without you? I can't disconnect my life from music and from how it saved me so many times that I would want to share with people the gift that music can be and just remind them that it's always there for them and that even when you feel like you're completely alone or misunderstood, there is someone who has had the same feeling that you've had. And that's one of the most powerful things about music.

That's powerful. What's your biggest fear going into the next decade?

Not realizing my potential. Yeah, I think that's my biggest fear.

What is your potential?

Endless. I know that whatever I really focus my energy on, I can see to fruition. And it's just about getting really intentional and writing things down and following through. So I guess it would be being too scattered around to where I don't really check all the boxes and toss all the T's and dot all the I's and stuff.

That'S like the creative artist way.

You get too excited about things and I don't. So I just want to see things through to the end. I want to finish.

What would help you get to that next level for you in the next decade? Is it the right team? Is it a skill that you take on for yourself? Is it what is that thing do you think that's gonna really set you up for the potential you want to reach?

I think I'm on the right path. I think I'm equipping I have a great team around me, wonderful positive people who we all encourage and inspire one another and we're all great in our own respects. When I'm thinking about my managers and my agents and those who work with us and stuff, but I think that just strengthening my mind-body connection, getting deeper into my connection with God, spirituality, I think that that will help bring more clarity because sometimes I can get just excited about ideas but not know exactly how to execute it. So, continuing to ask for help knowing that I have so much more to learn in other things. I'd like to be more of a businesswoman than I have been. I have a joint venture right now, a partnership with Warner. My label is called Clover. and I want to be instrumental in other young artists careers. I want to maybe help them avoid some of the challenges that I've gone through. And so I want to really walk the walk and just be more about it, I guess.

Be more about it. Feeling yourself. I like that. This question is called the Three Truths. So again, imagine it's your last day again. You sang your song. But now you get to leave behind three lessons that you want to share with the world. Three things that they would have to remember you by. If they had no access to your music or content you put out there anymore, but you could share three things that would be your truth for the world. What would you say are yours?

Everybody has their own unique gift and It's one of our responsibilities in this life to find out what that is and cultivate it and to be as true to it as possible. And so I would say that, that everybody has something very special and unique. If you're here, there's a reason why you're here. So never question that. Just keep seeking. If you don't know, just follow what you're passionate about. Maybe you'll find it in that. Yeah. Secondly, it's not the end of the world until it's the end of the world. Like you could always dust yourself off and try again. You can always keep going, you know? If you think there's a period, turn it into a comma. Like it doesn't need to be the end. And surround yourself with people who light you up. We can't accomplish, we can accomplish a lot on our own, but it's so much more wonderful to have people who you're strengthening each other. And if you're lucky enough to have even just one person who you can be honest with and who will hold you accountable, I think that you have something that's really valuable, something very priceless. So don't, Don't compromise just to have a friend in your life if they're not giving you that, if they're not really building you up and believing in you and helping you be your best self.

Yeah, it's great. I love those. Simple but practical. I love it.

I like practical stuff.

I love that. How can we support you moving forward? How can we connect with you? The album's coming out.

Yes. So I actually just did I did something kind of weird last year. I re-recorded my first two albums because they weren't available on streaming.

Crazy.

So go check those out in the meantime. I made them as close to the original versions as possible, and I just did it out of necessity because they weren't there. So the producers and writers weren't getting compensated. Nobody was making money from what wasn't there.

So how you weren't making any money from you those songs?

They weren't available for streaming or download.

What about like for TV or film or commercials? Nothing. So you couldn't make money off of your IP.

Exactly.

That's crazy.

Right, so now I own that.

The newer version.

Yes, I own these masters. And so you will be supporting me directly by listening. By listening. And I mean, I love social media. I love connecting with people. Like Instagram is probably where I'm most active. So follow me, it's @iamjojo. And it's the same on Twitter. I am JoJo. And come see me on tour. Like that is where I feel-- I.

Wanna watch you live.

So electrified. I can't believe I'm gonna come. You, we will bring my girlfriend.

I care if you yes or no.

You're gonna do it in LA or? Yeah, do it everywhere. LA, San Diego, San Francisco, we're routing tours right now.

So amazing.

2020, I just can't wait to get back out on the road.

Is that this summer coming up or when is that?

Probably be spring summer that I'll start. Okay, it's gonna be a few months.

Where can they go to get tickets or learn about that?

Honestly, just follow me on social media. It's all there. I think it's much, I think that's the easiest way to do it. I mean, like websites, like, that's cool.

Who goes? Yeah, yeah. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, JoJo, because you've been through so much emotionally. I just think it's really hard for a teenager to get that much fame and get that much success and attention and to figure out who you are in the process is very, very challenging. I feel like I'm 36. I'm still going through figuring out who I am. You know, it's. But to do it as a teenager is really challenging. And for you to come out more graceful, loving, kind and human and not a negative, bitter person is. Speaks volumes of you and your character. So I want to acknowledge you for everything you've done over. overcome the adversity, the challenges, the lawsuit, the betrayal, because I know how that feels and it's really dark inside sometimes, especially on a platform of your size. So I acknowledge you for gracefully moving through it and coming out on the other side in a beautiful way.

Thank you. That made me feel so warm inside. I received that.

Yeah, of course. Is there any questions you have before we do the last question?

Any questions I have?

Or anything you want to share before we do the last question?

Well, as we're having this conversation, I don't know when this will come out, but did you make any resolutions? What are you resolving to do?

You know, I feel like resolutions are very challenging because I try to make a resolution in a moment throughout the year, anytime throughout the year where I feel like something's stuck or off. Then I recommit to a new vision. So I don't like to wait till the end of the year and just be like, I'm gonna be sloppy for six months and then now all start. So I think I started making resolutions before New Year's, you know, a couple months ago. But for me, it's, I'm in a relationship with someone who's Mexican. She speaks Spanish. She's learning, She's pretty fluent in English, but I've always wanted to learn Spanish.

Since I was... Now you have every.

Incentive to do that. Since I was a teenager, I was studying it for many years and I never picked it up. And I started salsa dancing hardcore 15 years ago. And I've toured all around the world to the best salsa clubs. Oh, wow. And trained with the best people for like street salsa, salsa club style, not ballroom salsa, which is very different. Very fun. And like you said, music has been a huge influence in my life. My brother is the number one jazz violinist in the world. So, I've watched him growing up play jazz violin with Les Paul in New York City and the best all around the world. And my sister would sing Joni Mitchell on the guitar when I was growing up. My parents were opera majors at Ohio State.

Oh my god, I didn't realize how musical your background was.

I learned guitar at 18. 'Cause I felt so ignorant to be the only member of my family not talented.

-'Cause it's a language.

You wanted to speak it. -It's a language.

I wanna be able to have some.

Basic, you know, knowledge. -I respect that. That's cool. -'Cause I appreciate it and I listen to it a lot. So, I have a basic knowledge, but I couldn't play anything. Like I took a week of piano and I was like, I wanna go play sports. You know, it's just not my thing. So, I taught myself guitar when I was 18. I started doing vocal lessons last year just for myself. and this year it's all about Spanish. So, I've been actively looking and I know what I need. I need someone to come to me a few days a week and teach me. I've tried apps, I've tried going to places. I need someone to come to me for my schedule. So, I'm looking for someone who can come and teach me that I can hire 3 days a week and get going. So, that's one thing that I'm committed to. That's the main thing. That's the main thing. Health is always like a top priority but it's just reevaluating constantly what do I need?

Yes.

But it's always fitness and mindset. And then this podcast is so transformational for so many people in the world. We get emails all the time about when someone listens, someone's gonna listen to your story and they're gonna email me in six months and say, you have no idea how that supported my life. And they're gonna come back to me in six months and say, this one thing that JoJo said, I started taking action on. And Six months later, here I am.

Thank you. I mean, that's what I get from your podcast. I was telling you that I listened to your interview with Sarah Blakely. That's your last name? Yes.

Just so many great tidbits. She's amazing. So the goal is to double the show's size by the end of this year. That's the resolution. It's like it's been seven years coming up at the end of this month that we started this. We've reached 150 million downloads total on the audio platform. more on video. The goal is how do we double the audience size by the end of this year? So that's like a mission for the business. It's figuring out whatever it takes to be a maniac on a mission for that.

So that's the. How exciting.

2020 Vision. 2020 going all in.

So.

And being in a new relationship, living with someone is, you know, learning that.

Yeah.

So just trying to, I think patience for me is like the big thing this year.

Big one for me, too.

It's, you know, because I want it to happen. faster. I want to be back on top.

Yeah, I want to be back on top or I want to make this relationship work or whatever it is. But just trusting that you're doing all you can, if you're impeccable with your intention and your word and all that, we can only control what we can control. So one day at a time, I really try to live by that. I grew up being very close to AA, being very close to people who were working the steps actively. So I feel like that's a religion in itself, that the 12-step program. So I think that, I mean, this is one of my favorite tattoos, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, wisdom to know the difference. And patience in one day at a time is so essential for how we.

Just can- Focusing on now.

Yeah.

That's the resolution too. Every day. Just being grateful for every day. So, that's what I'm working on. Okay, I got one question left for you. It's what's your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness is is falling down and never staying down is constantly is resilience. Is just an unshakable spirit of seeking and learning, staying open. I think growth is greatness. Yeah. Just keeping at it.

JoJo, appreciate you girl. Thank you. You're the best. Thank you so much.

Powerful.