LOVE EXPERT Reveals The 3 Signs That Relationship WON'T LAST! | Jillian Turecki & Lewis Howes

Every relationship we've ever had will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves, period, end of story. And if you can't, if one cannot actually accept that, they're just gonna keep moving.

I think you gotta have a dream.

The School of Greatness.

Really? Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes.

What would you say then are the three main reasons most relationships fail? Don't work out?

Lack of connection, for sure. Feeling like they're distant from each other, but they don't know how to create that same emotional intimacy.

They don't know how to reconnect or.

They don't know how to... Yeah, they don't feel understood. They don't feel seen. They don't feel like... Usually what inspires us to commit to someone in a relationship is that we feel very connected to them.

Why does it leave? How do they get disconnected?

So, you know, the number one reason that I have seen is stress, people not managing the stress in their lives.

They don't have the tools on how to manage, how to regulate their emotions.

Exactly. And how to face the demands of life. And the thing is, you don't have to know how to face every demand of your life. You can be stressed out, but it's the chronic stress Because when you're chronically stressed, and I've experienced this before myself and I've seen this in countless people, right? When you don't have the tools to deal with the demands of your life, and maybe some of the demands are huge. Maybe they're not so huge, but it's the way you're seeing them that they're so huge. Then you start to disconnect from yourself. Your nervous system gets completely dysregulated. you don't feel like yourself. And then what happens is that when people are stressed out, it's like they're shut down for business when it comes to their partner. Because we, if you haven't experienced, I don't know if you have, when you're really stressed, we become obsessed with ourselves. We become obsessed with the problem. We become obsessed with not knowing where there's a way out. And look, sometimes stress is really, really intense and heavy and real and traumatic. But when we're in that, we're not actually connecting with the other person. We're not present with each other.

Yes.

And so when it's, of course it's going to happen once in a while, right? We get mindless in our relationships. Sometimes we can be the most conscious, self-aware person, but sometimes we will be just mindless when it comes to the person we love. But yet, if it's over and over again, if it's over weeks, if it's over months, if it's over years. And then all of a sudden you're like, you haven't had sex in months or years, or you haven't truly connected, like you haven't had conversations where you're looking at each other in the eyes, you haven't had the physical and emotional intimacy. And so that is really, and it's like those two people, they would say, yeah, I still love this person.

Right.

And then once it gets really real, then they're like, I don't want to lose this person. I want to go back to the way it was. So I would say that stress and then taking each other for granted would be the second reason why relationships fail. We basically, when we start seeing someone and we're falling in love with them.

We pour into them all this love and appreciation, and we see them and we're grateful.

Yeah, they're a gift, exactly. And then life happens and all of a sudden they become a given.

Right.

And so this person who you once saw as a gift becomes a given, and then people feel totally taken for granted. And that leads me to number three, which is resentment. People don't have the difficult conversations, they feel unseen, they feel unheard, And then you take someone, for example, who hasn't learned, for various reasons, how to assert themselves, how to say what it is that they need, how to have the difficult conversations, how to have the courage enough to dare to rock the boat of the relationship.

And create boundaries or whatever it might be.

Or create bridges. You know, I mean, it might be a boundary that leads to a bridge. I mean, the whole point of a boundary is so that there's more connection, not less.

Right.

So then they stew in their own resentment and it becomes like bloody hell for the person. It becomes like contempt and then all of a sudden you're looking at that person and you're like, I hate them. They love them, but you're like, I hate them. And so it's the stress, it's the taking people for granted and the resentment. And the stress, I think, is the bigger umbrella. under which all the rest rests.

Do you feel like people should even enter into a committed long-term relationship if they don't, if they haven't yet figured out the tools for managing stress in their own life?

No, I think that they can, but they can learn the tools while they're in a relationship.

But if they don't learn the tools in the relationship, then what?

Then it's gonna be a problem. I mean, so let's just say someone doesn't know how to manage their stress Just their day-to-day stuff, right? Like everything is a big deal or they're freaking out over money, they're freaking out over this or that, and they come home and they're just always on their phone dealing with their stress. And then their partner's like, well, what about me? Right, right, right, right. And then it gets really tiring. It's like, well, what about me? Then partner B will say, we'll try to like maybe like if they're super codependent, like overcompensate, like let me help this person with their stress, let me heal them because That wanting to heal their partner of their stress is just so they can get their partner back.

Back to peace, back to a place of like, yeah, we're together.

Yeah, we're together. Like, you know, like, you love me again. You're looking at me again. I matter again.

Yeah, so stress, I'm hearing you say, based on all the conversations, the coaching that you've done with people, if people can learn to minimize their stress or navigate their stress in a healthier way.

Yeah.

Then they can get back to being there with their partner in moments that matter.

Yes.

And showing them the affection, the attention, or the presence that your partner needs.

Yes.

It doesn't mean you have to be perfect every day, but it's like you're consistent in that attention.

Yes, exactly. Because what happens when we're really stressed is that we get in our heads and we ruminate and we obsess.

Analyze.

Analyze. I mean, you know, I've been the queen of that, so I can speak very confidently about that, you know, and most people just, it's hard not to live in your head. One needs consistent daily practices to not live in your head. Now, some people have a natural proclivity to really go with the flow of life more, but I see that way less than I see people who live in their heads. And so let's say you have one or two people and they're in a relationship, and they're always in their heads. They're not connecting.

With the other.

Yeah, they're not connecting with the other, exactly. And so that really is the cause of so many relationships ending that not enough people talk about.

Is that like a personality type thing to be aware of, like understanding when you're meeting someone, are they an analytical person who's always in their head? If so, Just because they're charismatic in one way or just because they're talented here or because they have status doesn't mean it's going to be a great relationship long term.

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, I think that there are a lot of people, I struggle to put people in too many boxes because I've also known people who can be incredibly neurotic and analytical and in their heads and brilliant that way, but somehow they just make their lover feel like a million bucks. And yes, maybe sometimes they get two in their head, but they're really responsive to their partner's feedback when they're like, you've been two in your head, and they're like, okay, I'm gonna wake up.

Right, right.

Because we're not perfect.

But then you gotta find someone who's responsive to feedback.

And that's actually-- and receptive to it. And that's the more important skill. Not to not never be-- you have to have important-- you have to have daily practices to deal with your stress, but life happens. but to be responsive to feedback, I feel like that's really one of the most underrated relationship skills. You have to, I've actually just been talking about this recently a lot, so I guess here we go. When you're in a relationship with someone, it's so important, and you and I talked about this a little bit, to have an aligned vision of how, you can't be the same, but you have to have an aligned vision of how you want your relationship to be, how your lifestyle you want it to be. And in that, if there's real true emotional intimacy between two people, they're gonna know, like you're gonna know what is most important to your girlfriend, to your partner, however you call her, right? And she is gonna know what's really important to you separate from the relationship, right? You're gonna know what their path is and they're gonna know what your path is. And I think that a relationship skill that's really worth honing is holding each other accountable to that. Meaning, if we see that the person we love is veering off their path too much, to be able to compassionately and with a lot of love to saying, I love you, but like, what's going on?

I think that's the approach. It's interesting because when I first started dating Martha, my girlfriend, I was like, listen, I'm, I'm My intention is to never get mad or react to you about anything you do. Now, this was after months of us dating and me really getting to know her and me then being in full acceptance of who she is as a person. Not trying to change her, not saying I wish she did these things, not saying she has the potential to do something. This is who she is. And I'm choosing to accept you fully for who you are. And so I said, but I have certain standards that I want us to create agreements on. So we talked a lot about these things early on. And one of them was never to jump to judgment at me without context, without compassionate context and support. I was like, this is something I'm working on where it's like if I feel like someone's just jumping at me with judgment, it's hard for me to receive it. It's hard for me to receive it, especially if I feel like I've been showing up fully, if I feel like I've been putting in the energy and the attention and I've been, you know, being there in the relationship, say that I've been being there. You know, create the context first and be like, man, I really appreciate how you showed up in the last few days around this or this and this. And there's just one thing I want to talk about which I feel like it's been on my mind that I want to give feedback on or however you want to communicate it. But start with the like, you've been showing up amazing. If I have been, you know what I mean? Start with the things that I've been doing well. So I can be like, oh, I feel seen, I feel supported, I feel acknowledged. Okay, great. Now, if you want me to bring attention to something else that you saw that maybe I could be better at, cool, bring it to me. I'm open ears. But get my heart open first. Don't let me put up a block, you know what I mean? And I think, Just communicating like how you want to receive feedback is important too. so you have an agreement around it.

I think that's wonderful. I think that's wonderful. I mean, no one responds well to criticism. And people in general have a habit of focusing on what's missing rather than focusing on what's actually there. Yeah, and people, the thing is, is that I'll add to the list of what destroys relationships.

Yes.

Selfishness. And that's a really triggering word for a lot of people because You don't have to be a selfish person to become selfish in a relationship. You can be a giving, loving person where none of your friends would ever describe you as selfish. But when we feel threatened and uncertain in our relationship, when we feel scared in any way, we go into fight or flight. And in that moment, and in those moments, we can only think about getting our needs met. And we go into survival mode.

Survival mode.

And we go into survival mode, and we think they have to change, they have to do this, they have to do that because if not, then something's gonna go wrong in our relationship. So people get very, very fearful, understandably, because no one wants to be rejected by someone that they love. so we go into fight or flight even if it's like the kind of fight or flight that feels super subliminal and it's going on for months and we are thinking again how can I get my needs met? How can I get my needs met? And then we go like for we'll say okay, Lewis is varying off, you know, I have something that I have to tell Lewis and instead of saying, instead of thinking to oneself, let me not just open up their heart so that they're more receptive to me, but let me open up my heart so that I can really appreciate inside of me how wonderful this person is. I can see their beauty and I can see who they are. And then bring up the feedback, not the criticism.

To bring the vulnerability and the intimacy to the conversation from yourself first.

Yes.

In order to create that space for the courageous conversation to happen.

Absolutely. But it gets complicated because people get really scared. You know, they feel unseen and the resentment builds up. And so it's like it's a peeling away of the onion to really figure out like what's actually happening, but the answer is always simple. It's just not easy.

Yeah. Something I do with my, with Martha, I don't know if I do this every week, but frequently I'll say, what can I do to be a better partner? Is there anything I can do to be a better partner? And she hasn't said anything yet. She's like, you're an amazing partner. Yeah, but I think it's because we're so proactive in the conversations and. I have this kind of philosophy that I've been putting together recently about how the best approach to enter a conscious relationship, to minimize as much friction as possible and be in more of a state of peace and harmony and alignment rather than survival and stress. And I think from a lot of the pain that I've been experiencing over the last 20 years, It got me to have some wisdom around this by applying something differently. I want to see if you can poke a hole through this, my philosophy.

Okay. Bring it.

I've said it on here a few times, but I want to say it again for people maybe haven't heard it. It's eight kind of keys to entering into a relationship.

Okay.

The first part is working on your own healing journey, being aware of all your triggers, all your traumas, and, and working on the healing journey. I think healing is a journey. It doesn't mean it's like you're healed overnight once you start talking about it, but have a accountability process where you're integrating the healing experience, whether that's a therapist, a coach, you're, you're committing to doing something to process this in your own way. Um, before entering, if you're going to enter and you don't do that, then I think you have to learn the tools of how to heal with that person. I think we're all going to be healing throughout life as challenges arise, but of the past traumas so you don't bring them into the new relationship without being aware of them. That's step one, healing. Step two, when you're getting committed with someone before you get committed to someone. Again, this is for a less friction relationship. Doesn't mean it's not going to be perfect. There's going to be challenges and adversity that comes, but to minimize the stress. is to find alignment on love languages. So that the way you show up, we were talking about this before, the way you show up naturally and the way you give love is how someone wants to receive it. Yes. You know, for whatever reason, I tended to choose people that wanted gifts and acts of service. And it was always like, I don't care about giving gifts, but I'm like an affectionate person and I like to tell you what I like about you. I like to use words and affection. So it was always like I had to become someone I'm not naturally good at for someone to feel loved. So it doesn't mean it has to be perfect, but like being in alignment of your love languages, that the way you show up is naturally how someone receives love and vice versa. Again, friction, less friction. That's the goal. Not perfect. That's two. Number three, four and five is being aligned on your values, vision and your lifestyle for life. I think if you have completely opposite values, it's going to be challenging. You might have a chemical connection in the beginning, but eventually when your values are off, there's going to be friction. Same thing with the vision of your life and a relationship. What do we want? Do we want to have kids together? Do we want to be raised in a religion? How do you think about money? Like the vision of where is this relationship going? Love or that chemical feeling of love is not enough if the vision is two opposite ways. And then lifestyle, you know, do we like to go out and adventure? Do we like to travel together? Or You know, as one person want to be out all the time and drinking and the other person wants to be at home watching Netflix, that's just going to be more friction. And one person has to sacrifice who they are to make someone else feel more connected as opposed to both having a shared alignment. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some similarities there. So that's 3, 4, and 5. And then 6 would be, this was an I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I told Martha before we got committed, we were dating for a number of months, right? I said, the only way this works for me is if we both commit to therapy together from the start.

Together as a couple.

As a couple and individually. Because healing is a journey and processing and integrating is a journey and A big value of mine is personal growth. And that means both of us individually and together. Because if one is growing and the other one's like, I'm good, I don't need to learn anymore in life, there's gonna be a disconnect. So I said, I've always wanted to do this, no partner I've wanted to have been with in the past wanted to do this, and I'm not gonna abandon myself anymore. And if that's not something you wanna do, then cool, then we don't need to be together. It's fine. If that's not a value for yours to have personal growth and accountability of our emotions. Cool, then we're just not a good fit. It's all good. And she was like, yeah, I'm down. And it's been incredible because at any moment there is some friction or like, oh, this doesn't feel as comfortable. We take it there and we address it early as opposed to when it's late and you're stressed out, we address it, we figure out what's the root cause of that feeling and we create an agreement that we both align to. So we have a shared language and agreements, and we have a third party who has witnessed the agreement. So one person can't say, oh, you never said this, right? Which always tends to happen. We agreed to this 10 years ago. No, I never said that, you know? Just having that accountability and responsibility on both parties and both individually growing. Once that has happened, those six things. Me saying, okay, before I fully commit and accept you in this committed relationship. Again, doesn't mean it's going to be perfect, all these things, but before I commit, my relationship has to be a relationship of service. And we need to have a shared value that service is at the heart of our relationship. Service of each other, service of ourselves to make sure we're taking care of it individually and in service of our community and the world. However that looks, as big as small as we want to make it, but it can't just be about us. It needs to be something bigger than us when we come together. And are you open and aligned to a service-based relationship? You are not messing around.

-Not messing around. -Yeah. -Why?

Why go through suffering and pain without having clarity and finding alignment? She was like, Yes, service. Let's do it. Great. What does this look like? Having those conversations and being aligned. It doesn't have to be perfect. It's being aligned. That's number seven. Number eight, because once that's all taken care of, and you're witnessing behaviors matching words, which is really important. Some people could say this is a value, but not show up in life that way, right? They can say I'm in service, but then they don't, you know, all these things. So having the time and space to witness actions based on their words and behaviors. then saying, I fully accept the human being you are before committing. I fully accept I'm not going to change you, I'm not going to get upset at you, because why would I get upset at you? Why would I get angry? If I am in alignment of all these things, what could I possibly make me upset? That means I don't have the tools for stress management or emotional regulation. So if I fully understand who you are and I accept you, then I shouldn't be upset. We can have conscious conversations that maybe they're uncomfortable, Maybe it's like, oh, I didn't like that, but I should never raise my voice. I should never yell. I should never get to these places that are unconscious. If we have consistent therapy, if we're in alignment, we created agreements, we communicate conscious and lovingly with each other. And that means you need to fully accept the human being I am. I travel, I've got my business, I've got these things, I've got my priorities, and you're an actor, you're on set with guys, you're kissing guys in movies. I have to accept that's who you are, or what you've done in your acting life in the past, right? Am I okay with that? Knowing I don't want to change you. And we both need to be in agreement of acceptance of each other. That was the kind of the eight steps that I've been discovering and creating over the last couple of years that has, again, supported a healthy conscious relationship. Again, it's not perfect. But supporting less friction, more peace and harmony, more love and less stress, which I think is what people want in a relationship. They don't want to enter a stressful relationship. They want to feel peace and love.

And again, in theory.

In theory, right? Unless they're used to that and they're familiar with it and they enter because what they're familiar to. But it's been a beautiful process being in partnership with someone who is also in alignment, right? And who is willing to go on the same journey. And I'm not saying this is these types of conversations and what people want to have with each other, but I was just like, I'd rather be single and in peace than enter an unconscious relationship.

Yes.

So, I don't know if you'd add or take anything.

Yeah, I want to take a stab at this.

Because you're the expert.

Yeah, I want to take a stab at this. So I'm curious, I have a question for you. I'm curious, so what does commitment mean to you? Like how long did it take until you were like, okay, I commit to you. Three months, yeah. Three months of-- Was it exclusive for three months?

It was, we did not go there sexually.

Okay.

For three months.

Okay.

Right, so there was a dating period for three months and I So you waited. I said, I'm waiting. I committed. And I said, I'm waiting. We're not doing this. And she was like, yeah, cool. I work for myself.

And that's what I tell all my single friends.

And that was the best decision because chemical confusion is one of the hardest things to overcome. The sexual chemical bonding.

Forget it.

Confuses you from spiritual connection.

It's correct.

You will forget all these values. You're just like, oh, I love this feeling.

Absolutely, it's correct. And lust is not love.

Maybe that's step one, wait.

Yeah, and this is what I teach singles all the time, wait. Well, how do you know you're gonna commit to someone if you don't know how it's going to be sexually? Okay.

Well, still wait.

Still wait. Because I say you can't even know if someone is worth your time if you don't feel safe with them. If you can't safely express an opinion when you're around them, and if you can't get certain just core needs met.

I think that's huge. Yeah, exactly. That's like the baseline.

Baseline. And if you don't have the same values.

Forget it.

But if you just don't feel safe around someone.

Yeah, you don't feel, I mean obviously.

The values, you don't feel safe around them. You feel like you can't express yourself, you feel like you can't be yourself. You know, if you're loud, you can't be loud with them.

If you're really timid, you can't be.

A little timid, you just I can't be you.

If you're not accepted, then don't have sex with me.

At the very base level, you know, like, or appreciate it, you know? The thing, so that list is extremely comprehensive and, you know, personally, I love it. There are some things, though, that I'll just poke some holes, I don't know if I'm gonna poke holes, but it'll be an interesting conversation. I don't necessarily believe therapy is for everyone.

What is the alternative towards emotional accountability and integration consistently? 'Cause I'd love to know. Yeah. I'd love to do that.

Well, some people, they work with a coach. I look at it as coaching.

Oh, you look at it as coaching too?

Okay.

I look at it as a coach or a therapist.

Or a mentor. Or a mentor, like, you know, like a spiritual teacher. Exactly.

Or something like that.

Some type of accountability.

Yes. Practice with someone who can hold a great space and you respect and you're gonna act upon.

Yes.

So whether you call it a therapist, coach, spiritual, priest, doesn't matter.

Okay, okay. Then that, because you know, something that I see a lot is triangulations, and when someone is going to a therapist and they're venting to their therapist about their partner, and then the therapist is getting on board with the person, and there's a triangulation happening. So I've seen some really 100% gnarly things happen.

Somewhere where you have emotional accountability.

Yeah, absolutely.

Whatever that is.

Absolutely. But it's interesting because I was just, I had lunch with a dear friend recently and she was in, she does all the work. But she was married to someone who was just awful, who wasn't doing the work and you know, part of, she learned that part of the reasons why she was doing that is because of her mother, you know, all that stuff. She's a brilliant, amazing person. And now she's in a new relationship. That's the best relationship she's ever had in her life and she's like, Jillian, He has no trauma. I was like, None? I was like, There's always some.

Even if it's a little tea.

Yeah, yeah. And she's like, He is the most, he comes from the most loving. That's great. You know, so, and she's peaceful though. And yeah, he's got practices, but there are some people, and I do think that they are unicorns, but there are some people who are so well adjusted and have been raised in such loving families that they can. I always believe that there's room for growth and he has to grow for sure. He needs to grow. But he doesn't bring any weapons to a relationship. And the thing is, she's friends with all his exes and they all say the most amazing things about him. They just didn't last because Vision, alignment, lifestyle, wanting certain things being the same. So that's the only thing that I'll add, but it's interesting that there are some people like that. And I'll add, you think it's good.

For someone to be friends with all their exes in a new relationship?

It depends. It depends. What if that ex is from 10 years ago?

I'm asking.

Yeah.

Is that still bringing that energy into a future relationship?

I think you can have unfinished business with an ex.

I get it if you've got kids and things like that.

Yeah, and you can have unfinished business with an ex, but there are people who you may have dated 10 years ago and it's like they're like a sibling to you now.

Right, right, right, right.

You know, and so I think that people have to be a little bit flexible.

What were else you were gonna add? I interrupted you.

I know there was something, what was it? It'll come to me.

So you don't think everyone needs therapy, but you do think everyone should have some type of accountability.

Absolutely.

Individual.

100%.

That's not just their best friend telling them whatever.

If they want to have an excellent relationship, that's going to have problems because all relationships have problems. It's how you face the problems. You have to relate to them, right? Yeah. Do the problems become what define the relationship or are the problems the things that just show up that you work through?

Yes. Do you think one, a relationship can truly thrive if one person is developing and working on themselves and processing and learning new skills and the other person is not.

It's very hard, you know, because people, I think growth is very important. I also think that everyone grows at different speeds and they grow differently. So whereas Therapy has been very impactful for you. For someone else, it might be something different, right? There's many paths.

Of course.

Because you're doing something. Doing something, right? And I think that people grow at different speeds. And I do think that you have to love someone as though they would never change. Though the funny thing is, it's like we want everyone to sort of grow, to evolve. But we have to agree.

It shouldn't be on their terms, right? That's why I told her, I said, listen, I'm committed to my own growth. I'm going to continue to grow and evolve. Yes. But you've got to accept me where I'm at. Yes. And if you don't accept me where I'm at now, and you want me to change right now into something that's going to make you happy, this is.

Not going to work. Or fall in love with potential, which is a trap. You cannot do that. No, you cannot do that. And also, what defines growth? How do you know that you're growing? You know, because some people will say, they'll go on like, you know, a retreat or do ayahuasca or do something and be like, oh my God, like all of this, you know? and the other person's like, whoa. And then that doesn't mean that the other person is not growing. So it's like what really, I think growing as a couple is really important.

That's why I said we've got to do, what do you call it, coaching or therapy?

I love that.

Committing to it together, individual on our own and then together.

I love that.

And she was like, yeah, I'm down. So she has her own coach that she works with every two weeks for an hour, an hour and a half to work on her own stuff individually. I do that as well individually and then we do it together. I love that.

From the beginning. From the beginning.

Which has been huge for us.

Oh, I think it should be non-negotiable.

That's what I said. I was like, it's not negotiable for me.

Yeah.

If it's not something you want, then find someone else and I'll find someone.

Else or whatever, yeah. Because guess what? No matter how much work we do on ourselves, we're gonna be triggered and that inner child is gonna come out screaming and we're gonna be like, you know, a total ass sometimes and, you know, we're gonna have to apologize. I mean, being in a relationship means that you have to know how to forgive and forgive often because oftentimes we will make mistakes with the person we love and we didn't even realize that we were doing that. I mean, how many times have you hurt someone's feelings and that was not your intention?

Yeah, so many.

So many.

Yeah.

So many times. So I love, you know, if more people, because the problem is that most people enter couples therapy when it's too late.

Probably not gonna work out.

Yeah, when there's just too many problems and too many things to unpack. I mean, yes, it can work, you know, it can help, but if you can do this stuff preemptively, it's huge. Anything to prevent resentment.

And pain and suffering and frustration.

Anything, you know, to foster honest conversations, you're gonna win, even if you end up breaking up.

.

You're going still win, because at least it won't be the kind of break up that destroys you.

Yeah, thislis.

That traumatizes you like asping Yeah Exactly.

Hert full back and forth.

Yeah. And that's tra you know what? That's trauma, oh, yeah, huge.

Yeah, And that it will hold people back from opening their heart in the next relationship.

See it all the time. People are walking around so wounded and so closed.

What is the most unpopular thing or truth about relationships that most people don't want to know.

And I'll tell you straight up that every relationship you've ever had had one thing in common. That was you. Just like every relationship I've ever had is one thing in common. That's me. It's not that all, all of them cheat. It's that you keep cheating. You keep choosing cheaters. It's not that, you know, all of them are narcissists. It's that you're choosing the narcissist. It's not that all of them are this or that. You're choosing them. You're part of that. And it's such an uncomfortable truth because people don't want to see that in themselves, but it is the path to your freedom, 100%. Every relationship we have ever had has been a mirror. and it shows us where sometimes it reflects back to us where we've done a lot of work and it's lovely. Sometimes it reflects back to us how wonderful we are. And oftentimes in our past, if it hasn't worked out, it's going to reflect where our self-worth is, where our immaturity is, where our trauma is, every relationship we've ever had. will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves, period, end of story. And if you can't, if one cannot actually accept that, they're just gonna keep repeating patterns, guaranteed. Guaranteed. If your picker is off and busted.

Because-- Man, mine was off for years.

Yeah, because, you know, whatever, you're addicted to the chaos, or daddy did this, or mommy did this. Which is familiar. Of course it's familiar, and this is very real. I don't mean to say it cavalierly.

Real.

But then you have to recondition yourself to understand what a healthy person is and go for that and become healthy yourself. Because most toxic relationships, of course there are abusive relationships where there is actually a very clear victim and a very clear perpetrator. But most of the time what people refer to as toxic, which is just an overused term and, you know, the current zeitgeist. But when people refer to toxic, it's two people with consistent, because we get unregulated once in a while, that's called being human, with consistent unregulated emotional states, blaming each other for each other's pain and not taking responsibility.

You did this to me. You made me feel this way. What you did hurt me.

And they're constantly unregulated. That's toxicity. Now, I was in my 20s in a horrendous relationship. Talk about chemistry, 'cause once you have chemistry with someone, you're screwed.

You feel this chemical connection. You're like, this feeling, you're intoxicated.

It's a wrap. And the thing is, if you haven't done work on yourself, you're gonna have that chemical explosion with the one person who's bad for you. And oftentimes, the person who's the best in bed is the person who's the worst for you. And usually they're just, you find the sex is amazing with them because there's a danger and then there's also a familiarity. I mean, we can, There's like a.

Trauma bonding or something.

Yeah, exactly. So I remember in my 20s, I was in a relationship with someone for about a year who, without question, is toxic. Like, there's just, Right, you could feel.

It, you knew it.

Everyone knows it.

They're like, what are you doing with this guy? He's treating you this way.

Everyone knows it. It's just, it's a fact, right?

But why did you stay then?

Exactly. Where's the toxicity in me, the low self-worth and all of that? Because the thing about being in a very unhealthy relationship is two people really bringing out the worst in each other.

Not the best, yeah.

Definitely not even close to the best. To the point where that, when that relationship ends, part of getting over that relationship is trying to overcome the shame that you feel for like, even going there.

I was there, how long of a life did I have with this person, the time and the energy and why would I, how could I do this? And what was I thinking, the shame, the guilt, right?

Yeah, and also just some of the things that you did, that's like, how did I react this way?

How did I react this way?

Yeah, like that boundary that I do, or like that thing that I said, like, yeah.

This is interesting, I ask people this sometimes, and I ask my younger self this now, I'm like, if sex was off the table, what I have stayed in certain relationships. There's no way. Zero chance I would have stayed after a year or two years of feeling like I'm abandoning myself or getting screamed out every week or whatever. I've been like, what am I doing this for? Why would I stay in this thing? For whatever reason that chemical bonds you for a moment and it's so strong and then you're like, okay, let's have a few good days and then it goes back into chaos. You're like, Let's get back to that feeling, right?

100%.

But if you took that off the table or if you just waited as long as you could.

Absolutely.

I'm not saying you have to wait until marriage, but if you wait until you get to experience someone over and over and over again in lots of scenarios and you felt safe and peaceful, then maybe, okay, you can start in that sexual interaction.

And you can make out.

Yeah, of course. I'm just talking about intercourse, right?

Yeah.

But if you took it off the table and you asked yourself, would I be in this if we didn't have sex for a year?

Probably you wouldn't.

Yes, exactly. If I'm not gonna have sex for a year with this person, would I put up with this behavior? Yeah, exactly.

Like I get screamed at, would I be yelled at? Like, no. Exactly. I don't need this. Yeah, I don't need this, exactly. And people, they don't wanna wait. And I always say, build that emotional intimacy first. Well, what if the sex is bad? You know what, you can work on it. And when you're making out with them, you know anyway. You can have some idea if there's-.

I feel a connection, my body's telling me that. Yeah, if there's, you know, there's chemistry from a kiss.

Period.

Exactly.

So you don't have to go there.

I've heard this a lot lately. They're like, if someone is boring, you should run towards them, not away from them. You know what I mean?

If all you know is chaos.

It's chemical chaos, right? It should run to, that's a safer environment. It doesn't mean he's the one or she's the one to be with for you. But start looking at people that make you feel comfortable.

And safe. Yes. Where you can, I tell people all the time who have that pattern of always just dating emotionally unavailable people or people that have been wronged for them. And usually that person doesn't have the self-esteem necessary to be in a relationship with someone who is gonna respect them and love them. But I tell them, just practice, go towards boring, exactly. Go towards that person so that you can have an experience of being in the presence of someone who you could potentially date and you can just be totally yourself.

100% yourself.

Yeah. No errors, no errors. No strategizing to get someone to be more interested. Yeah, you can flirt and do all that fun stuff, but no strategizing to get someone to be more interested in you, just you. And that is, I mean, that's like revolutionary for some people.

It's funny when I first started dating Martha, I told her early on, I go, if we hang out and you want to like hang out as dating, you know, I'm gonna tell you 100% the truth about who I am. Everything about me upfront, I'm gonna tell you what I like, what I don't like, what my vision is, what my priorities are. I'm gonna tell you everything and I'm never gonna change for you. Like you either accept me or you don't. And it's not like you're bad or we can't be friends, but If we're going to enter into a relationship, I need to feel safe and I want you to feel safe to be fully authentic of who you are. Your full expression be it, flourish, grow. Like I want this to be an environment of peace and harmony so you can be yourself and say, But I want the same thing in return. Otherwise, what are we doing? Why are we trying to dim our light in some way?

How did you get to that level of confidence to be able to say that to someone?

So willing to be alone and in peace than replicate the same pattern of choosing someone based on the chemical connection, not the spiritual connection. Yeah. So I chose because of chemical connections, because I would go there quickly.

Yes.

And then I was like, oh, this is a great feeling.

This.

Okay, I must love this person or like this person. Let's see where it goes. Right. And let's keep going back to that.

Yeah.

As opposed to creating spiritual intimacy and authentic connection without sex.

Yes.

That was the game changer. And it took me, I don't know, 20 years to figure that out and multiple painful experiences. Because once I commit to something, then I want to make it work.

Yeah.

Then I'm like, I'll change whoever I am to make you happy. Because I want this to work.

Right?

It's like the athlete in me. It's like, okay, if this isn't working, who? who do I need to shift to be so you're happy? And then after two years of relationships, when people aren't happy, I'm like, I'm exhausted. I've changed every part of who I am, my identity, to try to make someone happy who is just not a happy person. Or we're just not the right fit because we got bonded chemically, not spiritually. And we never had the courageous conversations early on about what we truly want in life. So I wanted a certain life, They didn't want that life, but we were connected. And that's why early on, I was just like, this is who I am. This is my priorities. This is my life. This is my lifestyle. This is my vision for my life. This is a vision for a relationship that I want. Is that something that seems interesting to you?

Yeah.

Without having the sexual chemistry yet, right? We're connected, bond.

Yes.

And her being able to critically and emotionally think without that sexual bond. And be like clear minded.

Very important also for a woman.

Clear minded. Yeah, I totally accept this and I like this and yeah, this sounds good to me. And me and Martha did exercises early on before we got committed. We went to Sedona. I took her to Sedona in a vortex and I created a vision and values exercise. I said, I want you to write down all your values. I don't want to see them. And I'm going to write down all my values. and we're gonna look at this together and see, is there alignment? Or really, your key things in life are not the same as what I want. And every time we do this, I was like, this may be the end of our like journey of dating and in this process, because I want you to be so happy in a partnership. I want you to be thriving, safe, in an alignment of your, I don't want you to change your life. I want you to find a good match that supports your life. and I want that for me. So I want that for both of us. So this was all before that sexual, you know, connection.

Look, if more people did that, more people would be happier. I mean, it's also a huge paradigm shift when it comes to relationship, because we're really talking about, like, seriously conscious relationships. Conscious, really.

Not hookup culture.

Not hookup culture or not just like the relationship of our parents. where it's just like there's very specific roles. Yeah, it's a completely different, and what I would just add to that so that people understand, because I also worked with a lot of people that are expecting perfection.

--Yes.

--And it's so important that, so one of the things that I have people write down, --They need to be perfect.

Themselves then, if that's what they're expecting.

--And that's, to me, that's just It's too much pressure personally.

Too much.

So one of the things that I have singles write down is what are you willing to tolerate? Like be clear about what you will not tolerate, be clear about your values and your vision, but what are you willing to tolerate? Like can they be a little messy?

Right, right. Can they not clean up after themselves once in a while?

Yeah, yeah. Like can they be a little introverted? You know? Can they, what are you willing to tolerate? Because you cannot have your expectations so high. Like, can you tolerate, like, I don't know, like, because people have, like, these really strict standards about how other people look.

In a relationship. Yeah.

No, like, how they physically look and all of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, like, this is my type and whatnot. And it's like, okay, I understand what, you know, we all have a thing about what we find stereotypically beautiful and what is our type, but chances are the person who you're really gonna fall in love with, they're not necessarily the person that you would necessarily think. I've said that to Martha, I was.

Like 10 years ago, I don't think I would have been as attracted to you. Yes. You know what I mean? She's extremely attractive and beautiful and sexy. She's got nothing to do with that. Right, but it wasn't my ultimate type, if I say so.

Yeah. From a wound, you know what I mean? Yeah.

From a healthy place, she's like, the best match, right?

So it's-- Exactly. When you change yourself, you change who you're attracted to.

Absolutely, yeah. You're not gonna keep repeating the type that doesn't work.

Yeah, unavailable becomes boring. You know, all the things that-- because when you're so connected to what's really important to you, not just important to you in life, but what's really important to you in terms of how you wanna feel in a relationship, because I really think As I'm sure you know, that a relationship, when it's good, it has the power to really heal.

Heal.

It's so healing, and when it's not good, it is-- you could be killing it at work. Your career could be on point. You could have all the money in your bank. You could even have your health. If your relationship's not going well, you're gonna wake up empty, and that's just the bottom line. It's just how it goes.

And it drains the rest of your life.

All encompassing.

For someone like me, it's very hard to be struggling in a relationship and not have some of that pulled into my work and my life and my.

You know, it's like- For anyone.

Because then I'm just thinking about it all day.

For anyone. It's that intense. It's that exhausting. But when it's right, not perfect, but when it's right, you can heal. You can heal a lot. When someone loves you, when someone really sees you and loves you, It can heal the parts of you that don't love yourself, basically.

Wow. What do you think are three questions that everyone should ask before they have sex or before they get committed exclusively in a relationship?

The three questions they should ask. Well, for sure, do you want to have kids or not? They might be at an age where that's a given. Right, that there's no, there's not gonna be any kids.

Sure, sure.

Right. So do you see yourself as a parent, you know, 'cause I don't. Or I really must have a child. And this goes along with your eight things. Another question before they're committed is-- I.

Think it's nine now.

Okay, okay, nine.

Which is something I did this time. But I forgot to add it down there.

Yeah, wait.

Wait.

Wait. What does money mean to you? How do you like to spend it?

That's one of the biggest pain points in relationships, right?

Oh, big time. How do you like to spend it?

Most people never ask that question.

No.

And they just assume this person handles their money the way I handle my money.

Exactly. Or they have money or they don't have money, whatever it is. And how should we, when life gets really stressful, when the crap hits the fan in life in a big way, and we have to really meet some serious demands in life, what is going to be our strategy or attempt to find our way back to each other? What's gonna happen when the baby is screaming and we can't have sex for a couple weeks or someone's had surgery? How are we going to address the elephant in the room? Are we gonna make sure that there is no elephant in the room? How are we gonna find our way back to each other? How much more specifically, you said three, what's an acceptable amount of time to go without having intercourse and why?

How important is sex in a healthy long-term relationship?

I think it's very important, although it's also critically important to note that sex doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. And so I think that sex is really important, but it has to be once again aligned between two people. There are two people who can have a beautiful relationship and not have that much sex because of the meaning that sex has for them. and whereas someone else, it has a completely different meaning. But I really believe that if you're not passionate about each other, whether you don't want to touch each other, then you have more of a friendship. And some relationships, some people are okay with that. They really are okay with that. So I'm not here to judge that. But I think that it's really important to feel passionate about the person that you're with. it's going to change over the years and you have to put certain practices into place such as, you know, date nights and, you know, spending a little time apart but not too much time apart, man, you know, making sure that you're managing your stress so that you don't become rigid and tense because the whole physiology of stress is the opposite of what, of openness. It's the opposite. And so we don't really, we're not attracted to our partner when they're stressed out.

No.

And we don't feel particularly sexy and in the mood to have sex when we're stressed out. You know, it's just not really sexy stress. So I think that that's really what's more important. And I think passion's important. Yeah, to really pay attention to that. I also think friendship's important. And some people would say, you know, the friendship's overrated. I think it's all important to work on all of it, as long as you have other people in your life who you have, that you have other friends. Your partner can't be your only friend.

No, gosh, I talk about Martha a lot, my girlfriend, but she's so wise because she has great girlfriends, great relationship with her sister and her mom and her family dynamics.

Yeah.

And she's also got her own coach, you know, therapy coach to work on just life stuff, whatever's opening up for her. So she does an amazing job of not coming to me every day or every week with the stresses that she's facing or just the challenges, right?

She has other outlets.

And she communicates with the women in her life to support just to have conversations. It's not like she's dumping on people, right? But it's just talking through things.

Very important.

And then She's good by the time I'm like, Yes. Hanging out with her or I see her at night, she doesn't have to bring it to me. She does sometimes, but it's not from a overwhelmed place. It's from a, okay, I've already processed this a little bit. Can I get your opinion on something? I'm just kind of struggling with this. And it's incredibly healthy the way she does it. Because it doesn't feel like throwing a weight on your partner.

Yes.

Every day, oh, this is the worst.

Day at work every day. The constant venting, which is different than going through a hard time and vulnerably opening opening up to your partner and breaking down to your partner and your partner being there for you.

What happens when someone brings their problems to their partner daily or weekly, venting? What happens to the relationship?

It destroys passion, for one. Those are the people who stop having sex because that's not when you're sexy, is when you're venting. And so, that's just, it's just constant venting and complaining is such a passion killer. It really, really is, and it's okay to complain once in a while. We're human. But complaining really is the passion killer. So, if you're in a relationship, even if you're in a relationship with a codependent, they're going to want to fix it constantly. A lot of men have said to me, I can't make my part-- they're complaining constantly and I feel responsible for that. So, that's a big one.

And they can't fix it.

And they can't fix it.

There's nothing I do where it stops them complaining.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So they- so you feel like a failure.

You feel like a failure. So that's a really common narrative with the men who I've worked with. But in general, it's just, it's so exhausting to be around someone who's constantly complaining. And it's just a passion killer. And it's like, I think that this is the self-awareness piece. And that's a really, I think a lot of your nine points speaks to something larger, which is just a level of self-awareness. We all have blind spots, and we will all behave and act unconsciously sometimes. This is really important. But self-awareness is so important to be like, oh, I'm complaining a lot. This isn't adding to the culture of our relationship. This is taking away from it. And so I'm gonna take that vent to my bestie, who's gonna be like, bring it, and she's gonna complain with me a little bit, and we'll just get it out of our systems. And then bring it. It's really, it's never a good thing when your partner is everything to you.

You gotta have a community.

You have to have, even if it's just, even if it's a small community, you have to have other sources of love. And people, they fall into these traps where it's like, you're, I only, not only do I expect you unconsciously to be my, my parents, but also my best friend and my confidante and my lover and my this and that. And it's too much pressure. I can't imagine having to be that, all of that for someone. It's exhausting. So it's really important that, that A, you are able to go to your partner for the really hard stuff, that you're able to Break down when something is really really hard in your life and that you know that when your partner When you're in pain your partner listens But the everyday grievances and stresses and all of that go to someone else as much as possible youe can do it a little bit with your partner here and there, but that you don't want to be youe don't want the bonding between the two of you to be bonding over pain. Pain is suffering and It's just, it's a habit.

It's a nasty habit. It's not a high frequency of energy. Not at all. So you're not, you're attracting and connecting.

Based on lower frequencies of energy. 100%. And sometimes that'll happen and it just takes one person being deciding to be the leader in their relationship being like, Hey babe, we're doing this too much. Let's snap out of it. You're right. We're like, way doing this, let's snap out of it. And that's the camaraderie of relationship. That's the partnership part of relationship. It's like, yeah, we When you said something about being of service, it's like sometimes you have to do the hardest things in service of the relationship. You have to name the elephant in the room. You have to have the hard conversation, not just to serve yourself, but you're like, but literally in the service of the relationship. Our relationship needs this level of honesty. Our relationship needs this.

I'm curious about marriage. It seems like the institution of marriage has suffered a lot. Whereas people get married and then over, I think over 50% now get divorced within five years or something.

Yes.

And then Esther Perel said of second marriages, it's like 60 or 70% get divorced. And it just keeps it higher. You think people get wiser and you'd like learn after one marriage, but that's what I've heard based on-- It's true.

And I know why. Do you want to know why?

Tell me why.

Because a lot of people, what they do is that they get divorced and they think, okay, they're the problem. I'm out of that. Or the relationship was the problem. I just need to find another partner and everything's gonna be better. And that's not true. Changing partners sometimes is actually very necessary, because sometimes, like I said, your picker is busted. and who you choose to be in a relationship matters. But who we choose to show up as matters just as much. And if you changing partners is just like we said, love is not enough. Changing partners is not enough. And so people get into second marriages think this is going to be better this time, but they haven't actually done the work. They haven't processed to understand what their part was in the demise of their former relationships. and you have to know your part.

Absolutely. I've interviewed a lot of people who have been together for 30, 40, 50 years, and I ask them about, like, the keys to conscious, healthy relationships over decades, not perfect relationships, all that stuff, but just ones that continue to thrive and seem to get better every year. Right. And manage the conflicts and adversities of life. And most people say that 80% of the success of the long-term relationship is who you choose. It's like you said, your picker. It's who you choose and making sure there's alignment on things. And I think having the courageous conversations before you commit long term, you know, and being able to get aligned. I'm curious, sticking on marriage, what's your thoughts on creating agreements, having a written contract before marriage about what each person's committing to, having a prenuptial agreement where it's like, okay, how do we, what's your thoughts on all that?

I'm in support.

Contracts, agreements, prenups. So there's just clarity.

I'm in support. Prenups can be, you know, when there's enough money involved, I think it's necessary. I mean, look, the romantic in me says no, but I'm also practical. So I think prenups are important. I think it's important to know where everyone stands. And I also do love the idea of having like a contract. It's like we're gonna hold each other accountable, whatever these things are, and that we sign to, you know, whether someone adheres to it or not. I mean, I guess it's like the same thing. If there's a breach of contract, you know, I'm gonna sue you. No, but it's like, you know, you.

Can'T- It's just having something where you've both agreed on.

I'm in full support.

Okay, three years later, here was our contract. These seven things that you agreed to, you're not creating anymore. Or I'm not doing these three things and I want to recommit to this.

Yes.

Because otherwise, if we don't do any of the things that we say we want to create in a relationship, why would it flourish? Why would it thrive?

100%. I'm in full support.

Interesting.

And actually something that I wanted to go back to about who you choose matters, people, one of the issues that people face is that in terms of choosing people that are maybe just not well matched for them, is that in order to know who is right for you, you have to understand your own psychology. You have to understand yourself. You have to understand where your vulnerabilities lie, where your weaknesses lie, where your strengths are, the trauma that you've been through. If you've had a rough go at life, then you're gonna need someone who makes you feel really accepted and safe and doesn't judge you for that. It doesn't give you a hall pass to bring that trauma in, but the reality is our past is our past. And so understanding who's the right partner for you is not only understanding your psychology, but getting really real with yourself. Because people will say, oh, I just wish I was this person. I'm really attracted to outdoorsy people, and I just wish I was more outdoorsy. Oh, I could be more outdoorsy. No, you have to be really real with yourself. You hate the outdoors, you might be really attracted to someone who likes the outdoors, but sorry Charlie, that's not gonna.

Be right for you. You can't sleep in a tent for.

Three nights with bugs, that's not you. It's not you, you gotta be super real, and that person who you're really attracted to does that, it's not gonna work long term. It's not gonna work long term, you could have a fun fling, but it's not gonna work long term, so really knowing yourself and honoring yourself is how you Choose well.

Yeah, that could be the summer fling, but then it's like if you're with the outdoorsy guy who that's his, he.

Wants that to be his life six.

Months in the mountains. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly.

You're like, well, I'm trying to create a stable home with kids in the future.

Exactly.

It's just, it doesn't work.

It doesn't mean they're not great people. It's just not gonna work. It's just not what you want for the vision of your life.

Exactly. And people have to get really real with themselves and they don't, and then.

They end up paying for that.

What'S been the biggest mistakes you've brought to relationships?

Me personally?

That you've later had to realize and take accountability for, oh, okay, yeah, I was responsible for this or this, or I could have shown up differently.

Yeah, for me, definitely has been, in the past, codependency. And what it looks like is it's funny, you know, relationships are funny. I mean, I've had some really beautiful relationships and I've had some not so beautiful relationships. And that's why certain people are going to bring out certain things in you, whereas others are not. But I've definitely brought co-dependency and low self-worth to relationships, like depending on my partner too much for my happiness.

Really?

Yeah.

What happens when we depend on our partner to make us happy?

Catastrophe. So here's the paradox. I think that we need to be with someone who wants to make us happier and that we want to add value to each other's lives. We want to make the path easier, but no one can walk our path but ourselves. And so what happens is that when, and it's unconscious, you know, and it's part of it is also conditioning. It's like be with someone who makes you happy, this or that, you know. The problem is that if you don't feel at least mostly whole, you know, we all have our things that we're dealing with, but if you don't, if you feel really fragmented and you think a relationship or another person is going to actually bring all the pieces together, then what's going to happen is that you're going to be really disappointed because then you're relying on another fallible, flawed human.

Imperfect human.

Imperfect human. And you're going to have all these expectations and your shoulders are going to be crushed by the weight of failed expectations constantly. But You know, so yeah, I've done that. Not really standing on my own two feet emotionally. I have brought stress to a relationship and not my self-awareness around stress to the point where I've closed or yeah, where I've closed, you know, not been receptive to love.

Guarded.

Yeah, guarded or just tense and stressed and just totally expecting to be loved anyway. And it's, you know, relationship is so filled with paradox. It's like, yes, they should actually contribute to your happiness, but you also have to know how to make yourself happy. No, you don't have to love yourself completely to be in a relationship, but yes, you have to love yourself at some level, you know? Or you learn to love yourself in a relationship, but also you can't enter a relationship hating yourself. There's just so many paradoxes, and I would just say that people just need to find sort of the balance for themselves. And like, the reality is that we should be adding value to each other's lives. We should want to root for our partner, and we wanna see them win, and we wanna see like their path be just like paved with gold. And we will do anything to help them, but we can't actually pave the path for them. And that's the key difference. And we can't expect that from someone.

Right. I think that's, you're speaking my language right now because, you know, over the last couple of years of doing my own healing journey, I was just like, if I enter a relationship again, right, it was kind of like if, you know, 'cause I was just like, I'd rather be happy and on my own. No, but I love intimacy and connections. It's like, okay, I want it, but it's not at the expense of suffering and abandoning my values and my vision and lifestyle, my needs. But I was like, I just want to make sure that I'm always taking care of it and loving myself and taking care of myself and creating my own joy and happiness and fulfillment independent of a relationship. Never needing someone, but the way they show up can just add to that joy.

Yes.

Add to that happiness. And I want to be in a relationship with someone that is a joyful person. It's kind of like their baseline.

Yes.

Because they've processed stuff. They've been on the healing journey. They're whole, not perfect, but whole and continue to improve. But they're just, their baseline is joy. Yeah. When someone's baseline is joy, you don't have to do something to make them joyful.

They are joyful. Yes.

And so it's getting your place to a state of peace and joy and fulfillment in your own life so that you don't need the person to make you happy.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then you're not going to self-abandon, I think, or diminish your self-worth in the relationship. If someone's abusive or acting out of character consistently, you're not going to stay in that. You're gonna be like, well, that doesn't work for me.

And that's really the key point because honestly, what's epidemic in terms of what I see personally is just low self-esteem. And people, it's sort of like two camps. I see people either being selfish and not appreciating their partner.

Not giving enough to their partner.

Not giving enough. Or I see the people tolerating too much BS.

Right.

And so to the people who tolerate too much, it's like you have to do something to raise your self-esteem. something because what people tolerate out there is what I've tolerated. It's unbelievable, actually. But part of that is also because people are so afraid to be alone and they're afraid to start over.

And the time invested with that last person.

Exactly. Love your life single. You can really love your life single, but also really want a relationship. I don't want to scourge, I think that life is better in a good relationship. It just is. And getting love from a partner and sharing and having that exchange is really profound. But you also have to give up your preferences to be in a relationship. Right. You know, I tell single people all the time, you want to lie in your bed diagonally? Go for it. All that secret single behavior, enjoy it. Because when you're in a relationship, and you're living with someone, you can't necessarily do that. But you have to really, like you said, being in the position where you'd rather be single than just in something subpar. That is an amazing position to be in.

Yeah, it's huge.

It's huge.

Are you in a relationship right now?

I'm actually not, which is wild. I mean, I guess it's not that wild. I, you know. So the whole reason why I do this is that I taught yoga for 20 years. And so yoga is like probably the most important thing in my life other than people in my life. And I had a really difficult marriage that only lasted two years. It was like actually- How long were.

You together for before?

Four years. Well, we were together two years prior to that. And interesting, this is an interesting story. So I would say 90% was perfect. before we got married. But the 10% that wasn't was so, so profound. And yeah, I felt seen, safe, loved, adored. I adored him. We had amazing rapport. We laughed hysterically. I really like it when I make people laugh. If you can understand, I have a really dark, nasty sense of humor. So if you can understand my sense of humor, I immediately feel very connected to you, right? And so we really connected, but there were things that I would never tolerate. And this is something like, we're cool, like things not working out with him, and then my mother died. So I went through a lot of tragedy to get to the place where I am now. But I'm very cool with him. In fact, I have a joke that he should probably send me a bill, because I have this whole career based on this relationship that I had with him.

The wisdom you gained from this experience.

Oh, so I'm actually very grateful. But there was an interesting story, which is that we went to, we were about eight months into our relationship, and I felt totally in love. We were both totally in love. And I don't know what triggered this, because this was a while ago, and I just don't think about it anymore. It's not traumatic for me. But something triggered him, and he had a proclivity towards avoidance. And I had the proclivity towards anxiety. And my father was very, very avoidant and shut down. So here we are.

And anxious and avoidant is not a good combination.

It's not a good combination. So it's a bad combination. But so he was shut down over something that I have absolutely, something that was not warranted. And we went to this show, 'Cause.

It was on Travels with Charlie.

This is totally his own stuff. This was not something that, I mean, I can take a lot of responsibility and have, but this is not something that I did. It's something that he interpreted. So we went to this show called Sleep no More, and I don't know if you heard of it, but it was like a thing in New York, and it was really, really crazy and really cool. And you get there and they give you, like, these masks, like, from scream, basically, like, these crazy masks. And so you be, even though if you go with someone, it's a very, you kind of get separate. They separate you. Yeah. So it's a very solitary experience and everyone's behind a mask. So you're having your own experience. But on our way there, he was in what would be the first of many of these moods where he would shut down and I didn't know what was going on. Back then, I didn't have the courage to say, what is going on? Speak up. Did I do something?

Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about it. Now, It wouldn't even, yeah. You didn't have the tools then. I didn't have the tools and I didn't have the self-esteem then. The courage doesn't speak. Yeah, all of it. And so when we went, he was totally shut down. We were separated, but there were times where you would recognize the person because you know what they're wearing, and I would be so psyched to connect with him, and he would pretend like he didn't see me. It was like a total stonewalling. And I was so incredibly upset. And all I could think about is I gotta get this relationship back on track. I have to make this better.

From that one day.

From that one night because he was stoned. I knew that, I was like, his feelings changed about me. I have to make sure that whatever it is that triggered him doesn't trigger him again. So all this stuff came up.

So you interpreted that too?

Yes, exactly. So I got really anxious. Low self-esteem. I don't wanna, or like, it's not that it wasn't perfect, it was really bad. If so in other words, if I were to encounter that today, that relationship would have ended that day.

You were like, hey, this doesn't work for me, yeah.

Without question, that actually wouldn't even been a conversation. It just would have ended because I would have known from a value system perspective and also from what is good for me that that is absolutely, we can have fights, we can have disagreements, but that is not allowed in my world. So I've changed a lot and the relationships that I've had since then, because we split many years ago, have been super healthy and super, super lovely, just not in alignment with what it is I really want. And I am just like you, like I would rather, yes, companionship is great and having someone tell you you're beautiful and lovely and friendship is great. I love you. Yeah, but what I want is something like I'm looking more to the future now in a way that I haven't in the past. So I ended something fairly recently that was lovely, that it was not painful, it was super, super healthy. And I guess I'm sharing part of the reason why I'm sharing this story is that some relation, just because a relationship ends, it doesn't have to be a drama. It can be lovely. There's no pathology to a relationship ending. you could just be going in two separate directions and that is okay.

What's the best way to end a relationship consciously? To minimize as much friction or drama. One person may be resentful or frustrated or hurt and sad that you can't control, but what's the best way to end a relationship in peace?

Accountability. I love you and I know I really messed some of this up. And I'm sorry. That's one way. But I just don't see that this is something that is good for us anymore. So you include yourself in the conversation, meaning you're not blaming the other person. You take full responsibility. You know, I remember ending one thing a few years back saying, I love you, but I love myself more. And because of that, like, you're on your path, I'm on mine, and it doesn't, it's not gonna work long term. So I wish you nothing but the best. Like, I truly wish you nothing but the best. That's obviously difficult if you're in a relationship that's had a lot of hardship, but even in the ones that have been the ugliest, you can really turn it around. by being a better person when you break up with them than you were when you were in a relationship. If you've never taken accountability, that's your time. You can learn a lot about someone by the way they break up with you. You can tell a lot about- that's.

Kind of who they are. How they show up.

It's their level of consciousness at the time.

I want to be friends with a lot of people.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah, people can be really nasty. I've always wanted to end relationships like peaceful. I want the best for you. I take responsibility for my part. I want the best for you. I hope you have an amazing life. That's always been kind of my stance.

Yeah.

Yeah. And for whatever reason, I've chosen people that are like, I hate you. You're horrible. I can't believe you're doing this to me.

Like a storm.

And then want to hold on to it for years.

Yes.

And like, try to get at me somewhere. I never understood that.

Drama.

I never understood why people will hold on to some relationship for a year or years after and keep trying to pull them down when all I try to do is be like, I just want the best for you. It's like, cool. I don't understand that. But again, that's me choosing from a wound.

Yeah, it's choosing from a and then being in their wound, you know, all of that.

And you can never do enough for someone to be, you know, there's no way to end it with that person. They're just gonna be upsetting you no matter what.

Well, the worst thing is ghosting. In what way?

You know, I mean-- Ending a relationship by ghosting them?

I mean, yeah, it's one thing to ghost someone that you went on a couple of dates with, which I think is just totally immature, but it's another thing to ghost someone that you've been in a relationship with. DM me. They write to me. My boyfriend of five years, he just disappeared. Come on. No, I'm telling you, and I get that a lot. That's painful. That is trauma. That's big T trauma in many ways. That is psychological abuse. They just disappear. I mean, obviously there were things that were wrong in the relationship, but the way that they ended it was to just disappear.

They were very avoidant, right? And they didn't want to --You know what I mean? they weren't willing to have the conversation.

They just wanted to avoid the pain. Yeah, and then just disconnect. Wow. That's a highly dysfunctional thing to do to someone.

But it's also you got to look at it as, yes, it's a trauma, but you also have to say, well, at least it happened where I'm not in this relationship, right? At least it's not, I'm not with.

A person for the rest of my life like this. And you can get to that point and that would be meeting, right? And that's the healing to get to that point. But at first you have to get over the fact the abandonment, and that takes a long time to get over.

What's the biggest wound you've had to heal?

In myself? Definitely the abandonment wound, the father wound. I've made a lot of peace with my father, which I'm very, very happy about. And it's more just peace within myself, more than anything else.

What does that look like within you? Peace within yourself.

It's remembering to think of him and see him through the filter of my level of consciousness now versus the level of consciousness I had as a teenager, as a child. It's about having compassion, seeing him as a human being. It's also, you know, you don't have to, I don't have to be afraid anymore, I don't have to worry anymore, I don't, some of the memories that I have with him in the past, I can just look at, I can change the story a little bit. I can relate to the story that I have with him differently. And I think that that's real healing. That is what really heals trauma, is being able to make some sort of peace, even if you never speak to that parent again, because I know everyone has different circumstances. Some people have been really horrendous things with family members. But I'm always helping people and I feel honored to do so and I don't feel like an imposter doing it knowing that I've done that work as well. Helping people to look at whatever troubled relationship they have with a parent and to find some peace with that, to see them as just a flawed human being who did the best that they could. Also to sometimes when we have a troubling relationship with a parent, the memories that we hold onto are all the negative ones. And our mind will disregard the things that are maybe good. And even if it's not a good memory, it's like there's something actually positive there, but we get so attached to the story and to the wound that we actually suppress some of the good stuff because for that to come up might be too difficult. That's number one. Number two, you have to grieve the parent that you wish that you had and maybe that you deserved to have. You have to really properly grieve that and come to a true acceptance of the fact that your parent is not who you needed them to be. you have to accept that. That is just one of the cards that life had for you. And we all have things that, you know, haven't really worked out.

And what happens if we don't accept that?

Your relationships will bear the brunt of that.

You'll suffer.

You'll suffer a lot. And we do, you know, the subconscious mind is very powerful. So we will, part of self-awareness is to be like, oh, I'm not seeing my partner right now. I'm seeing mommy. I'm seeing daddy. And being able to mitigate that. But if you really, really struggle with the parent, there's no peace. It's constant projecting. Either you're picking partners that represent the worst part of the parent, or represent the thing that you still need to work out. I mean, there's a lot of theories. A lot of psychiatrists and psychologists have had theories. Freud being one of them. Probably the first one to say, you know, you will pick partners who will remind you of a troubled parent or a troubling relationship with a parent so you can work it out with them.

So you can fix it and resolve it.

And that's when actually healing can happen in a relationship if two people are willing to do the work. Like, oh, we're bringing all our trauma and if they can work through it, that can be profound. But you can't fix someone else.

No, you can't. You have to be willing to-- you- cannot.

It has to be collaborative. It has to be 100% collaborative.

And also if you're trying to fix someone else, it's meaning you don't accept them. Yes.

For who they are. 100%.

Not saying that's the healthiest choice you should have, but you're not accepting them.

No, it's not that. So you're judging them. You're judging them constantly. And judgment doesn't support in a relationship. But there's all sorts of, no it doesn't. And there's all sorts of things. I mean, there are some people who are really attracted to people who are.

Quote unquote broken, because then they get to be the rescuer. I mean, we're all playing out these roles.

All the time.

What happens when someone is the fixture and tries to rescue in a relationship? Can that be healthy long term?

No, because also I believe that deep down no one actually wants to be rescued. I think that, but this is the thing.

This is the fairy tale lie of women.

Yes.

Some guy's gonna come and rescue them.

Yes. I mean, so there's one argument to say that, oh yeah, deep down all they want to do is be rescued. But the way that we earn self-esteem for ourselves is to be able to face our problems.

Absolutely. Ourselves.

Ourselves.

With support, but not with support.

With support.

Doing it for us.

Yes. And so it becomes really, really tricky because then we start to lose respect for ourselves. We start to lose respect for the other person.

Who's doing the work for us.

Yes. So having the strength to face our problems, but Utilizing help because I really think that's very important. I have invested so much time and money in support and help and mentorships. I'm a full believer in that. But you have to give someone the privilege of solving their problems.

And doing the work for themselves.

And doing the work for themselves.

It's true.

Yeah.

I mean, if you just give someone a million dollars, they might feel good for a little bit, but then it's.

Like, It gets old real quick.

Right. And then, well, you're also just like, okay, I didn't create this.

Right.

I wasn't the one who created this value for myself.

Yes.

You know, if someone just, it's like...

Being handed things in a silver platter.

Exactly.

There are lots of people who are raised with being given everything. And there's statistics that prove that a lot of these people also become drug addicts because they never learned how the value of a dollar, how to earn something, because When you earn stuff for yourself, regardless if it's money or something else, you build confidence in yourself.

And you respect it and you respect the energy and the time towards it and all these different things. That's interesting. What do you see is going to be the biggest problem that I guess more millennials are gonna be facing with getting into relationships in their 20s and 30s now with post-pandemic And with extreme social media consumption and instant gratification thinking as a society and culture, what is going to be the biggest thing to overcome for people in order to enter healthy relationships moving forward?

To unhook themselves from dopamine. It's like, It's like porn addiction. You can scroll through social media and get a lot of, you know, you're not, you can't scroll through social media and see sex, but you can get a lot of those dopamine centers in your brain to be activated because of things that you're looking at. And that, and also having your phone on the table when you're having dinner with someone, even if you're not looking at the phone. pulls your attention away from the person that you're with. And so I think the instant gratification, not being present with one another, also like expecting sort of like the lack of patience that people have now because everything has to be, look, now it's reals. It used to be videos because people don't have the attention span. And so I think that what I'm concerned about the younger generations is them not taking enough time to really get to know someone, to also having realistic expectations. You should have high standards, but your expectations should also be realistic. You know, everyone is flawed. Everyone comes with stuff. So you can have a really high standard. I certainly do. You certainly do. But you can't expect perfection because then you're not giving yourself any grace because then you have to be perfect. Right. And that really stresses me out personally. I don't want to have to do that. So I am concerned. I'm concerned of them just being constantly on their phones with each other. I'm concerned with just needing, like you said, the instant gratification, the dopamine rush. Like, is this not right? Like all of that creates We're all walking around like, hi. You know, it's like, this is like, why do people do drugs? Because of dopamine. It's like we're all like stoned and high on something. So it's a, I'm concerned about the realness.

Yeah.

But some, that's the younger generation. Some millennials have been like some of the most like realest people I've met. Really, really in my, more than my generation. So, you know.

What's your generation?

I don't know. What am I if I'm in my 40s?

I'm like, I'm a little bit of a millennial. Am I Gen Y?

I'm 39, so I'm a millennial. You're like a millennial. Yeah. So I guess, am I Gen Y?

Am I Gen Z? I don't know. I should know this. Yeah, yeah.

That's interesting.

So, I mean, because I grew up without social media. But then, yeah. And you as well. But then I got it in college, like Facebook. was not open to the public still when I was in college. So it was just for college students.

Yeah.

And they were opening it to different. So I remember it's like, oh, it's coming to our school, like, next week. And so it was, like, when I was a junior, I think, or senior or something. So it was towards the end of my college experience where I was into sports all day in high school and college and, like, interacting with people. Yeah. Outside and playing Frisbee and, like, whatever, as opposed to. on my phone since I was 12. Yeah. Just scrolling all day.

Yeah.

So I feel like I got, you know, blessed to have had that experience. Absolutely. Because even then, having the phone now is, you got to remind yourself to, like, put it away. But if I was raised at 12 with an iPhone, I'd be on it all day, probably.

I know. And it's, it's a double-edged sword because my best friend, she has a 13 year old son, so it's like, if something is technology wrong, she's like, So I can't just ask Cash. I just act like he knows everything. But yeah, you have to, I think parents, it would behoove parents greatly to have some serious boundaries around that. Children need to write, they need to read, they need to write with a pen, they need to go out and play. If you're always on the screen, I'm concerned about depression. going on the rise pretty disproportionately.

I think it's also learning the skills of communicating face to face with people and navigating feelings and emotions in front of someone, not behind the screen by texting or just feeling isolated to a screen. It's really learning how to connect human to human and manage your emotions and stress and feelings in discomfort in front of someone.

Yes. So maybe the younger generations, there's gonna be a lot of difficulty in terms of that. Intimacy, exactly. Not really being able to connect or not being so adept at reading body language. Because that's a big part. There's lots of different ways to communicate that has nothing to do with the verbal. We're communicating all the time with our body language. We're doing it right now. And so if you miss that, you're missing a key component of human behavior and communication.

Yeah. Well, I'm grateful you got an amazing podcast called Jillian on Love with Q Code. And where you're teaching about relationships, you're doing a lot of solo content where you're teaching lessons and wisdom and skills and how to be better in relationships with yourself and with others. So I want people to check out your podcast. You also got an amazing Instagram account with great content. Is that the main place that you spend time on social media? Yeah, I have a TikTok account where.

I have some more videos, but mostly it's Instagram, JillianTareeqi and then now the JillianOnLove Instagram.

JillianTareeqi and JillianOnLove is the podcast Instagram. And then jilliantareeqi.com is the site? What can we get when we're there? What's available?

So I created something a few years ago called the Conscious Woman, and it's a membership for women.

That's great.

Yeah, I really wanted to do, even though it's funny, I do work with a lot of millennial men actually, but most of the people I work with are women. And in my own journey of becoming more conscious and learning the lessons that I learned, I really wanted to help women. feel more empowered in their relationships and take more responsibility. And so I created, you know, when I-- a few years back, when I started this journey of really full-time becoming a coach, I spent like two years creating so much content. I was like insane. I mean, I even think I like did one of your things. I mean, it was like, yeah, I was like, seriously, I was a content machine. And then I was like, what am I going to do with all this? I'm like, I'm going to put this into a membership. and I'm gonna call it the Conscious Woman. And then there's monthly Q&As and workshops that I do with everyone. And that's been, it's a really large community that's been building for a while. And then people can just purchase workshops. I have a, going through my divorce and then the death of my mom, I am no stranger to grief and heartbreak. So I wanted to put in writing and outline all the steps that I took. to not just get over that heartbreak, but to really thrive. And so I created a workbook, super inexpensive, and I started selling that about a year and a half ago, and I just call it the Heartbreak Workbook. And I mean, I just literally, it's digital. I sell it through social media. I've sold close to 20,000 copies. That's amazing. Yeah, and it's just, so that's what you're going to find on my site.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Very cool. How else can we serve you today?

Oh man, I mean, how can you serve me? I mean, honestly, like just knowing that I have people who want to hear what I have to say and that who support me, that's enough. Yeah, that's really enough. Like the fact that like I have this podcast and people want to listen to it, That feels like that there is such a beautiful symbiosis happening between me giving and then receiving and giving back. So it's all very rewarding.

I love it. Well, I want to acknowledge you, Jillian, for how you've thrived after a lot of pain. You know, I think I've experienced my own type of pain, but going through divorce and experiencing whatever emotions come up from divorce.

Yeah.

Whether it be shame or guilt or beating yourself up, whatever you faced, and then your mother passing and just facing life after that and trusting again and opening your heart again and using that experience with wisdom to serve and finding a meaning behind it in a beautiful way is really inspiring. So I acknowledge you for your transformation and your growth. and how you channel that into service, into helping others who are experiencing pain or challenge in a relationship, to supporting them to create more peace. I think that's what it's all about. We all want to have peaceful relationships. We want to feel loved. We want to be in a loving environment. And I'm grateful for your lessons and wisdom and being able to give that to more people. Thank you. Even though it was a painful experience, a powerful one that you've transformed. So I really acknowledge you for that. This is a question I asked everyone at the end called the Three Truths. So imagine a hypothetical situation. It's your last day on earth, many years away. You get to live as long as you want and accomplish all your dreams. But for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you. So the workbook, this podcast, your podcast, your Instagram content, and whatever you create, it goes to the next place. after you pass. And all we have to be remembered or reminded of you are three lessons that you can share with the world. Three truths. What would be those three truths for you?

Your relationship with yourself reigns supreme. So, and it's the longest one you will ever have. Don't leave your own side. Number two, stress is the cause of so much suffering. It causes disease, it causes dysregulation, it causes relationships to completely destruct. So figure out a way, get whatever help you need to help you face life. And then number three, it's weird that I use the word privilege, but it's the word that came to my mind, so I'll use it. I had the privilege of watching both my stepfather at different times and my mother pass being there in the room. And I don't know if you've ever seen anyone die, but it changes you, especially if it's someone that you love. And in that moment or in those several hours leading up to the final passing, because people die in different ways, but if you're in a hospice and you're dying of cancer, it's sort of like the dying process is sometimes like a week. And when you're there and you see that and you realize like nothing, all the things that we worry about, they really don't matter. Like none of it matters. Like the only thing that matters as cheesy as it sounds is love. It is the only thing that matters, like connection and love. And people are starved for more connection. People are starved for more realness. And so I guess would be just For people to understand that, like, when you die or you see someone die, you're gonna know the truth of life so hard. And so make it your mission to be aware of that every single day. Because I went through that and I still will, I get caught up in the little things all the time. I sometimes have to meditate on that moment. Just to like bring me back to reality. And so yeah, life is fleeting. Tell the people you love that you love them.

That's beautiful. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness, courage, courage. Life is hard. Fear is very real. It consumes every single person on some level, maybe in certain cultures not so much, but in this culture everyone is walking around with way too much fear. And so I think that greatness are like those moments where you just feel like courageous and you have the fear and you do it anyway.

There you go. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

What happens when you are in a period of liminality like this, where the big dilemmas are not getting answered, is that all the unknowns are filtering onto your relationships. And the relationship becomes the holder of all that stress. And that is part of the divorce rate.