Lucy Hale Opens Up on Getting Sober & How to MANIFEST the Life of Your Dreams!

At the peak of my success with the TV shows on Pretty Little Liars, I was at my absolute darkest, most shameful, I don't even like calling it partying, because that makes it sound like it was enjoyable. I guess like the benders started.

Was this just alcohol or drugs and alcohol?

Mainly alcohol, but towards the end it was also drugs.

Yeah.

Yeah. Our next guest stars on the hit ABC family show Pretty Little Liars. An American actress, singer, and television personality. And quickly becoming a voice of strength and vulnerability. Please welcome Lucy Hale. The only thing that's gonna make you happy is already within you. Does money make life easier? Yeah. Does a great job make you happier?

Yeah.

Is it gonna fix the broken parts of you? No, never, not ever. The only thing that can do that is you and your connection to something bigger than you. I remember speaking out loud and speaking to the universe and literally daydreaming about being in LA and I manifested that for my life.

So what's the difference between manifesting from a pure connection to God versus manifesting from a darkness? And a disconnection from God.

So, okay, so there's a couple elements to this.

Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Lucy Hale in the house.

So good to see you. What's up, man? I'm so happy to be here.

This is, I mean, we've been trying.

To make this happen. We have been. For a while. We have been. I wouldn't call them roadblocks, but we had some, the universe said, not yet.

Pause, pause. The timing isn't right. This is the right timing. Yeah. And I think whoever's watching or listening right now is going to this is going to help so many people, no matter what they're going through or how they're challenged in their life right now. Because you have an amazing story. You've been in the public eye for the last, I guess, 15, 20 years almost. You've had a massive career, millions of followers, tons of success. But for a long time, you had a lot of sadness and darkness inside of you. And you were numbing yourself to try to overcome the insecurities that you were facing. Even though you were in the limelight and had everyone turning to you saying, wow, you're amazing or you're talented or beautiful or whatever it is, but you had these kind of insecurities inside of you that I've heard you talk about. And three years ago, you talked about as a moment that was almost rock bottom for you or was rock bottom for you. And I've heard you talk about this openly. But how can someone hit rock bottom a few years ago After so much success and so much fame and so much attention, what does that feel like internally? And how do you decide to start making changes so you don't feel like you're at the bottom, even when everyone else seems like you are on top?

Yeah, I mean, it was a really unbelievably confusing ride to be on because externally, how I showed up in the world, my persona was successful on a big show, like cool clothes, good eyebrows, like all the things, right? But then I'd go home at night and I had this like unbelievable guilt and shame for having those things.

Really?

I did and I think that that was just a limiting belief I acquired at some point as a kid of thinking that receiving meant selfish or that receiving meant you weren't grateful. And like, I just had this idea that I needed to humble myself. And so I felt really guilty for a lot of the things I had. And I want to say that that sort of shame, to me, shame is the lowest you can get as a human. I think it's like the worst feeling. I think it's a really scary place to be in. And I want to say that that shame is what fueled the drinking and the numbing out and the because subconsciously I was sabotaging my life. Because I was saying I wanted success. I was saying I wanted a great relationship. I was saying I wanted to be respected, but I was doing things. At the time I wasn't conscious of them, but I was doing things. I was trying to implode my life because I felt like I A fraud.

Wow.

And now, without getting too deep into it, I believe that we all have souls, and I believe that my soul really needed to learn the lesson of unconditional self-love and unconditional self-worth. And so I believe that my soul always knew I was going to go through this, and that I really do. And I'm sure I could talk about this forever of like, why I think we're here on the planet. But one of my big lessons was learning to love myself even though I had done things that I knew were out of alignment with my truth. And really understanding why I was making certain decisions and really getting curious about why do I want to sabotage my life? Why Do I dislike myself so much? And, you know, and then it took the path of sobriety. And to me, sobriety represents so much more than just not drinking or doing drugs. It represents getting to the core of the wound and then getting your life back in alignment. And it took like 15 years of trial. Yeah, man. Like, I, I struggled heavily at the peak of my success with the TV shows on Pretty Little Liars. I was at my absolute darkest, most shameful. And so like that juxtaposition was unbelievable to me because and it's really proof that you can have all the things you say you want and still still feel empty because what was happening for me is I thought everything outside of me was gonna make me happy. I thought the job, the boy, the money, the whatever. I was like, that's really gonna fix me. And it shocker. It doesn't. So yeah, it took a lot of trial and error, a lot of really trying. It's not that I didn't try. I really, really, really always wanted to feel better and to understand myself more. And I had many rock bottoms though that would have appeared worse on paper. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, some will take to the grave with me. A lot of rock bottoms, a lot of scary rock bottoms, a lot of really sad rock bottoms, losing relationships, my own physical danger, losing my career, all of these things. But the moment I got sober, it was the first time I had experienced like a spiritual intervention because that's really, I could still cry thinking about this moment because it was so visceral. It was-- Where were you?

Like what was this?

I was in Austin, Texas.

Okay.

I love Austin. I need to go back and make new memories there. But it wasn't like a crazy time. Like nothing really quote unquote bad happened.

You didn't have like a near-death experience.

Or like-- I mean I had in the past, but this time it wasn't. I just remember I woke up and it was almost just like I knew that if I did not change my life from that moment forward, I was gonna lose everything.

Really?

And maybe even my life. Like it was that clear to me and it was a sensation I felt and I felt the presence of a higher power that loved me a lot and was like, listen, listen girl, it's not too late. Because I felt like it was too late. Really? Because I had tried for years and years and years.

What did you try? Was it like therapy and ayahuasca and like I tried spiritual retreats and meditation, kind of all these things?

So I didn't start all the spiritual stuff until that's the place I'm in now. But I mean like rehab, inpatient, outpatient, every type of medication.

Try that stuff, yeah.

Every type of medication. I did try religion. I tried everything, everything. And nothing really, nothing stuck for me. And I really think that's because I believe patterns repeat in your life until all the lessons are learned. The same people will keep showing up. you'll keep making the same habits, everything will continue on until you've really wrung out that rag of all the lessons. And my God, for some reason, my soul's like, no, again, again, again. And I really did learn a lot about myself and through those 15 years of what I was running away from. I mean, I didn't even realize until I actually got sober and had the clarity and clear mind for a year, like how much sadness and rage and anger I was holding on to that was so old. Wow. Like it felt ancient. And I, you know, that really is my biggest lesson in being sober is being able to speak up for myself and set boundaries for myself and honor my truth, because that is why I was drinking. I was drinking not because I like to take tequila shots and, like, run loose in the streets of LA. No, I was drinking because that, in some weird way, allowed me to unleash these, like, parts of myself that I really didn't wanna-- I felt like I couldn't behave that way in my normal life. And so I do have a lot of darkness in me and a lot of depth and a lot of, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. And it scared me, I think, a lot of my life. But now I kind of run towards that because I think people who struggle in this way or struggle with anything, it's just because we're afraid of our own power. And I'm not anymore. And I, if you can't tell, I love talking about this because this was bottled up for a really long time because I was like, well, I can't talk about it because no one's gonna hire me. Like, I can't talk about it. No one's gonna want to date me. I can't talk about it. People are gonna be be scared of me. But when I first spoke about this a couple of years ago on another podcast, the amount of people that I have connected with and the amount of people who are like, that helped me get sober, or that helped me realize like how I'm sabotaging my life. And that's why we talk about these things. That's why you do what you do. It's because it's so important to be that ripple effect in someone else's life.

So how long were you using alcohol then to numb the pain or to numb the lack of ability to create boundaries in your life or speak up or kind of like own your power?

I mean, the funny thing about my old friend alcohol is that it starts out as a really good friend, right? Like it's sneaky and But I wanna talk to you because you don't drink. I've never been drunk in my life. Okay, I need to, I'm gonna circle.

Back around to this because, Is there any benefit to drinking? No. Zero.

Not for me. 'Cause I've never been drunk. Okay, but not for me. So there are certain people who, like it blew my mind that people could just have a glass of wine. Because if Lissy over here had a glass of wine, like I'd be buying the whole place yay or nay mom shots. two hours later.

Sure.

I am an extremist, which is a blessing and a curse, but you can't say I ever didn't like go 100% with drinking. Because I went, and the other thing is, I never knew if it was gonna be fun or if it was gonna be, you know, blacked out crying on the phone to, you know, someone I'm gonna regret talking to. But I used alcohol Yeah, so it was a slow creep up. It wasn't, it was always very clear looking back in hindsight that I was a binge drinker from the beginning. But I would say around like early 20s, because I went to rehab at 23. Yep. And I, that didn't work. It did for a little bit, but.

What really needs, If rehab doesn't work for you or it didn't work for you, what is the thing you needed to heal your soul or to get in alignment to say, I don't need alcohol to allow me to feel safe or whatever it is? Like what did you need at 23, at 30, at 34? When you're in these kind of rock bottom moments where you turn to alcohol to numb or feel protected.

-Yeah.

-What is it your soul really needed?

I mean, I do believe in the divine timing of my life. So at those moments, I did have what I needed. But I think what I really was craving was, I mean, honestly, like simply put, my connection with a higher power, my spiritual, I was spiritually broken, is what I was.

You're spiritually bankrupt.

Absolutely. Wow. And that brought on more shame because even as a little kid, I was like highly connected to God. Like, I remember speaking out loud and speaking to the universe and literally daydreaming about being in LA, and I manifested that for my life. And at some point along the way, I just... It's not like that left me. I cut myself off from that. That connection is always there.

Interesting.

As people, we just, forget, suppress, cut it off. But I think what I really needed was, well, I needed to get scared sh*tless is what I needed. And that's what happened when I got sober. I was scared. I was very scared. And not everyone needs that, but I needed, it was like someone was shaking me to wake up. And so I had to be so scared because I, it's not like I wanted to die. I wanted to live. And I needed I needed my connection with something bigger than me.

And what scared you?

Oh, I just, I was like, do I make it out of this? Or is this gonna be my life?

This three years ago.

Three years ago. I'm like, is this gonna be my life? Because I was just in this pattern, yeah. Psych for years. And I was so physically, mentally, emotionally tired. I couldn't even, I literally couldn't even look people in the eye because I ashamed of who I was.

Wow.

Because there was just a moment in my life, all I did was wear sunglasses because I was like, people see right through me. I was just really lost.

Wow.

Really, really lost. And the second I stopped running, I was just tired of running. I was like, for what?

And what were you running from?

I think I knew that there was like this, box inside of me that I had chains locked up. I didn't even know where the key was. I was like, no, no, no, it's good. We can just shove that down as far as possible. But I knew throughout all of this that if I just opened the box, sat with it, slowly unpacked it, that it would be okay because I knew that all the answers were there.

Interesting.

My answers were all inside of me. It's never going to be outside of me.

And the more successful you became or the more in the spotlight or the bigger the audience.

--There'S another way of numbing out.

--Of course, like let's do another movie, another TV project.

--People like me, look at these followers. Look, I'm number one on a call sheet. And listen, let me preface with I love what I do. My job has saved my life in so many ways. The fact that I get to create and collaborate, it just blows my mind that I get to do that. But it was such a fancy Band-Aid for a long time because my success was completely running parallel with my struggles.

Gosh, that's interesting.

It's really weird. It's really weird.

The more successful you became, you also felt more struggles piled on top of that.

Exactly, and I felt like my, Issues with alcohol or numbing out were getting worse.

Wow. Yeah. How did you function on set or in projects when you were numbing out at night every night?

I was really clever about my ways because I wasn't drinking during the week because my job was important to me. But when I would go, I would go. Weekends were mine. I was like, the weekends are mine. And they normally were blacking out and not remembering what I did. and luckily I, you know, had people, you know, I was safe, but how I mentally and emotionally functioned, I don't know. Like I have memories of being at work and like truly having to walk away because I was like, I was like, people know what's going on. Like I wasn't there though. Like a part of me was not there because I was just, it was, Survival. It was like fight, what is it? Fight or flight all the time. And it, I just now, before we started, you were like, you feel so grounded and it's just, I just now, after three years, my nervous system is like, oh, we can relax now.

I was gonna say your nervous system seems like more safe.

It does.

More in alignment.

Yes.

And you're probably, you know, you're really great at eye contact, but it sounds like three years ago, you wouldn't have been able to do this.

No, no, God no.

I definitely, because of the shame of someone seeing through you. And I can relate to that growing up, dealing with sexual abuse as a kid. I felt ashamed, because I never told anyone for 25 years.

Yeah, oh that's such a burden.

That if people really knew this about me, no one would love or accept me. And so I was in the let me perform, let me achieve, let me be great at something in sports or whatever, to mask the pain.

When did you start talking about that?

12 years ago.

And did it feel like you could finally be yourself when you could?

No, I felt like I was gonna die. Like I felt like it felt like I had to say it finally, but that my life is over.

'Cause you thought people would...

I just thought no one would accept me, people would make fun of me, people would judge me. Yeah, I mean, but it actually, the, you know, the pain, the trauma, once I started to process and heal and started to share, It became more of a superpower to be able to connect and empathize and understand people and, and be more relatable to other people who'd been through something similar.

Yeah.

Um, but I thought it was going to ruin my business and my life and no one would ever date me, you know, all these things. It's like, everyone's going to make fun of me.

But it's true that when you truly honor your truth and live from the most authentic place, because I had similar feelings. I was like, after I did the podcast, I was like, well, My career's over. Bye Hollywood. But I was welcomed with so much warmth and so much love. And so it actually, I could still cry thinking about it because I never thought I was deserving of that. And it just goes to show that when you honor that, who you are, there's no one else on the planet like you or me. And When you live in that truth, people, they have no choice but to, they don't have to like you, but they can say, damn, I respect that.

Yeah, one of the scariest things is being your most authentic self and people not accepting you. But one of the most beautiful things is being your most authentic self and everyone accepting you for who you are. It's like, makes me emotional thinking about it because it's, I think it's what we all want, acceptance. We want to feel seen and acknowledged For the human being we are. And when we have shame, guilt, insecurities, not enoughness, unworthiness inside of us, then we want to hide and protect those things inside of us that are afraid from other people seeing that. Or we overperform or we people-please or we do things to not create boundaries of authenticity to try to be accepted within groups in society. Yeah. And we've become a different person, a different version that is not truly us, authentically us. And all we really want is to be accepted and seen for who we really are. Even all the mess and scary parts inside of us. And it sounds like you were masking that for a long time.

For a long time, but also to add another layer to that, being your authentic self and not caring if people don't like you, because if you're truthful to you, Like, and that's the best feeling for me. I don't know if you relate to this, but like, there's really nothing I would change. I mean, there's always growth and evolution of self, but there's nothing I would change about myself. I'm not hiding, there's no skeleton.

Well, you're taking some stuff to the grave.

I'm like, there's some things that come with it.

But like, but you don't need to share everything with the world also.

But like, I'm me, and if you don't like what I'm saying, turn it off. If you don't, Don't follow me, but like, this is me and I can sleep at night knowing that I'm truly in alignment with hopefully one of the better versions of myself.

Yeah, and then something that just came up for me is like, yeah, we don't need everyone else to like us as long as we like us. And it sounds like for 15 plus years, again, correct me if I'm wrong, you had 10, 20, 30 million followers who loved and liked you. But you didn't like you.

Yeah.

So what's the point of having hundreds of millions of followers adore you if you can't love you?

It's, yeah, it really ate away at me and it really messed with my head. I now look back and I'm so proud of, I mean, even though I handled it in a specific way, I am so proud of that juxtaposition because, like, it actually should have gone worse. You know what I'm saying? how I felt. And I really, I've always kind of felt like in my life that I'm kind of this lone ranger, like I want to do it myself. I felt a little misunderstood in my life, and I definitely felt that way during that period of my life. And yeah, just reflecting back on how I used to feel, it feels almost like a different lifetime ago, but it still resonates. But, you know, I still, there are still things I struggle with, of course, but it really is the best gift to say, you know what I did, it's not even, oh, yes, I love myself, but it's more like, wow, I really did my best today. Where can I do better tomorrow? Like, who can I apologize to? Like, is there any way to like clean up my side of the street? How do I challenge myself more? Now I'm just obsessed with, you know, I want to know more about myself and I want to speak more with people and connect more with people. Yeah, I'm like, my friends bless them. I'm like, they hear me talk about all the different things that I try. Like, I'm obsessed with spirituality and self-help and definitely, I've funneled my addictions into that, but I think it's better.

It's better than alcohol.

Yeah, I would.

Eating disorder or something.

I still love caffeine.

Sure, sure.

I love a Diet Coke, but let me have my Diet Cokes.

Exactly. There's a quote that you shared that I want to talk about. And you said this, I made the choice on the morning of January 2nd, 2022 that I was going to do everything I could to get sober. I knew that if I continued on the path, I would have lost everything I cared about. It was the scariest choice in my life, but also it's been the best gift. When I made the change, everything else changed. My whole life has changed. And again, we were talking about how this is like little over three years now on the journey of being sober. But really what it sounds like the journey of committing to being in alignment with yourself. And when we step into alignment and allow our nervous system to heal, we don't need these things to make us feel better. We don't need extremisms of alcohol on the weekends or extreme foods or whatever it might be to feel peace.

It's so true. And that to me is, I don't even like to use the word sober sobriety because to me it's, yes, I am sober, but it's less about not using drugs and wait, using drugs, drinking alcohol, and it's more, I love myself and my life so much I would never do anything that's gonna threaten my peace. And that applies to people, that applies to environments, that applies to substances, that applies to everything. My peace and a calm nervous system is my top priority. And so it's more about, like you said, anything that's gonna shift me out of alignment, I'm not doing it. I'm sorry. There's no, it's not even an option. Yeah.

You mentioned that when you were growing up, you felt connected to God. you speak about God, you feel connected, you're either listening from a place of openness to God. And then it sounds like when you got to LA and you started getting into the industry, God kind of, you kind of either blocked God away from you or just focused on the material world more rather than the spiritual world. It sounds to me like as you started to heal the little girl inside of you. Yeah. And reclaim the version of you, that little child inside of you that is that had that wonder and possibility and pure light and joy. It sounds like you've gotten closer to God in your own version. What has that journey been like for you? Reconnecting to God and reconnecting to little Lucy inside of you. Yeah, that was really a channel of spiritual joy.

Yeah, I feel like this whole journey has been, I'm not a changed person. I'm just going back to who I always was. It was like coming home to myself. I was like, and you know, and we all experience that. Like life happens, happens, heartbreak happens, and it's like we just get all this stuff piled onto us and we're like, wait, I'm in here. Like, please come find me. And so I always have felt really connected to my inner child and But I knew that my inner child or little Lucy, like I took on a lot of stuff early on. And so I knew that a lot of my healing was, and I think that's why I avoided it for so long, is because I knew that I was going to not have to live in that space again, but have to really acknowledge what I felt and what I went through and who did those things. And it's just, I was like, I'm not dealing, and you know, 20 years, I was like, I'm not dealing with it. But what I realized is nothing's ever as scary as we make it up to be in our head. And you don't, I was like, now I realize I don't have to attach to those stories that we tell. Like, I was giving so much of an identity to alcoholic victim, I was complete victim mode, and we don't have to do that. Real healing lies in letting, feeling it, you know, and then completely letting it go. We, it, half, not even half, all of the stuff that weighs us down are not our burdens to carry. None of it's our.

And so, why did you think you made it your burden to carry?

I think when you're a kid, you just do, you just do. Kids are pure, you know, it's like, oh, you have no choice really. And then I moved to LA young and grew up really quickly. I was surrounded by adults. I was making a lot of money early. It was just kind of an expedited childhood. I didn't go to high school, I didn't go to college. And so there was a mixture of wanting to be normal, intertwined with all of that as well.

When did you move out here?

I moved out when I was 15. So I've lived here for a little over 20 years.

You really grew up young.

I did. I did. I mean, I guess, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, this is definitely, but all that being said, I feel like the journey of my life, it still would have been the same thing whether I was back home or here or wherever.

But you feel like it was amplified here though, maybe?

Probably so, but this ties back to My soul has a plan for me. There were book markers I needed to reach. There's a million different ways I could have reached those book markers. That's free will, right? But I needed to learn some lessons. And they're tough lessons. But yeah, I really do believe I would have dealt with similar themes, maybe just not in the public eye.

Exactly. There's something you mentioned earlier. You talk about, you know, whenever I saw, I see you resharing some of the stuff on here, specifically about manifesting or with Dr. Joe Dispenza and kind of these different topics. -He's a big fan. -Yeah. I don't know if you've been to one of his events yet. No, I want to. He came and spoke at Someone of Greatness last year here in LA. I would have known you, I'd have had you come out, but next time. Next time, yeah. But it sounds like you said earlier that when you were a kid, you were just dreaming and manifesting, coming to LA and having this career and getting these opportunities.

Mm-.

And it sounded like you had a pure channel to God to be able to manifest your dreams and really go for it.

I think so. And of course, as a kid, I didn't have the vocabulary of channel or manifesting, but what I thought I was just a really elaborate daydreamer.

That's beautiful.

But to the point, 'cause I spent a lot of time alone as a kid. I didn't have many friends. I genuinely loved being alone because then I could be in my head and I could create these environments that made me really, really happy. And so I did a lot of music growing up, so music was always my emotional valve and just that really got me through some stuff as a kid. But yeah, I mean, I have memories of being in my house or backyard or whatever on my trampoline and just knowing I was moving out of the city I was in. I knew I was destined to do something big. I knew it. And even at this point, I didn't even know what an actor was. I was just like, and this isn't, you know, talking bad about where I come from or my family. I was just like, I feel kind of like a square and a, you know, what's the saying?

--Ground hole?

--Yes. I was like, I love my family, but something's not right here. I always just felt like the black sheep of the family, just in how I viewed people, the way I dressed, like my interests, everything. But yeah, now I look back and I was like, dang, I knew how to manifest.

You did.

As a little kid.

Well, here's the interesting thing, because you manifested your dreams as a kid when it seems like you had more possibilities in your mind and you were, I guess, closer to God or having a different relationship with God. But then when you were in LA and you started to go down a darker inner journey, you know, externally, you kept manifesting still. You had opportunities and money and audience growth and it's like gig after gig. So what's the difference between manifesting from a pure connection to God versus manifesting from a darkness and a disconnection from God?

So, okay, so there's a couple elements to this. Now, do I believe in manifest-- you don't have to believe in manifesting it, it is law, but I feel like my destiny as a person was always to be in LA, so Does that make sense? So like even if I was in a bad place in my life, like my soul wanted to be here, but I would say the biggest difference in manifesting from, it's like I was manifesting things and they would happen, but I'd still have the feelings of unworthiness.

Really?

Yes, and what's really interesting about, like I manifested some things after Pretty Little Liars and it was a couple of TV shows, and I'm talking, I did like three TV shows in a row that got canceled. And I was like, but you know what it was? It's because I had this limiting belief that I didn't deserve what you had already before, what I had already, or that I had already peaked or that, you know, and so I was manifesting jobs that weren't going to follow through.

Interesting.

Oh, my God. And we were talking about, like, money beliefs earlier. Everyone read Lewis Howes' book. But I've had to really reestablish a healthy relationship with money and with success and realizing that success doesn't equal bad or evil. To me, more success equals, Wow, I get to connect with so many people. Or, Wow, I get to create content, movies, TV, films that's really going to help people. Or, Entertain them or give them a break from their day. David has really helped me with all of this stuff. And so my life has felt like a series of trial and errors like most people's. But then I realized, oh my God, I realize my part in it. Because we are manifesting every second of every freaking day. And the biggest, like if anyone takes anything from this podcast, It is get really comfortable with your thoughts and make sure you're focusing more on the positive than the negative. I feel like what I realized was I was latching on to so many negative limiting beliefs that were really hindering my growth as both an artist and a human.

Interesting.

And I was blaming other people. That is the worst thing you can do is say, well, I'm not getting this job because this person's not working hard enough for me. And it's like, no, no, no, no. I don't know. We are so in control of whatever we want to create. And that's a scary concept for a lot of people.

Yes.

To accept. A lot of people don't want to accept that. But it is my belief. It is my belief that we are master master creators and we are so powerful. And like how cool that, I mean, look, I'm sitting here like two years ago, I was like, dang, I really love this podcast. And I was like, I could really see myself on this podcast. And here I am. But we're also manifesting little things like a cup of tea. It's just, I love it. I think it's fun to play it. Once you get familiar with how it all works, it's fun to-- Now, but.

You mentioned something earlier about, like, you felt like you were a victim for a long time, right? Yeah. Like, you were living in victim energy. Yes. Obviously, you were creating stuff and from the outside, you know, people didn't see your failures. Even though you had three shows that didn't extend after the first season or didn't get picked up after the pilot or whatever. Yeah. But everyone else on the outside is seeing you win except for maybe close industry friends hearing about some of the.

Ten trolls on the internet.

Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, it didn't work out for you. But it's not like you were living in a victim energy inside of you and it's because you weren't feeling worthy or deserving of the success or like, I've already received too much success and I shouldn't have received that much anyways. When did you start to shift out of victim and unworthiness energy into hero or main character energy.

Yeah, I love that.

Into and into I am deserving and worthy of all the blessings that come to my life.

Yeah.

When, how did you shift that energy from I'm undeserving to deserving?

I mean, I feel like it was around the time I got sober. I mean, definitely a year or two before I got sober, I started having these like little glimmers of hope or like, things were really connecting for me spiritually or like how I was getting in my own way, how I was contributing to this sob story or like contributing to my own suffering, you know? And that is the biggest wake-up call a soul can have is when they're like, oh my God, this is my part in why I'm in so much pain. Because I think it's so easy for us to just like blame, blame, blame, blame.

So you're blaming who? Like managers or agents or like studios.

Or-- I mean, no, I mean, I think I was just, Yeah, it was like people around me or other people in the industry.

Or were you saying like- Or I thought this girl got it because of some other reason or what?

Yeah, it was like, oh, I don't look a certain way or I'm not a good enough actor. Or what are these stupid stories that we tell ourselves that aren't true? Like I was just giving my power away too easily. And all of that started to shift when I, first I had to get clear-headed, right? It was like, okay, Stop drinking, stop doing all this stuff, and just like really, let's get back in alignment. And I had to be really clear-headed and you know, the first year of sobriety was really about just in my environment changed, the people I was with changed. The second year was-- 'Cause you're not.

Hanging out with the same people who are drinking.

My whole life completely changed. But I have been lucky that a lot of, like my family, I have some, All of my closest friends have been my friends for years, years, years, and they were, you know, stood by my side. But a lot of my life changed, looked different. The second year was more about like, okay, I need to integrate into the world and have fun. But I was, you know, I can't like sit at home in my house all day with my dogs, although- It's.

Pretty fun too, though.

And then the third year, so the year I just came out, because I'm in my going to my fourth year, my third year was like, Everything changed.

Really? Last year?

Everything I had bottled up came to the surface. It was like I got hit with everything one after one. It was like emotional whiplash. And luckily, work was, I had a lot of time last year to deal. You know, it's funny how those things, I was like, thank you, universe, because I really needed time to sit with it.

And if you're working all the time, you don't have time to say, oh.

No, it's like, I'm busy. Like, I'm booked and busy. I don't have to worry about my emotions or whatever. Like, stupid. But I had the time. And it was during that year where I realized, oh, if I change the way I think and I believe it and I embody that, I can change everything in my life. And so.

So what were your thoughts like on repeat for two decades before you started to change your thinking?

It wasn't all bad. There were moments, I think I've always had an innate sense of purpose. I always was like, I'm here to do something important. I haven't always known what that is, but I've always had, I always feel like I've been very open and I've had a good heart. I wasn't just constantly like, Shitting on myself, you know? But I think a lot of the limiting beliefs were playing small. I thought I needed to be really quiet.

Really?

And just, yeah. Yeah, really, I thought, because to me, the limiting belief of speaking up, setting boundaries, speaking your mind, I was like, oh, that is a troubled woman. Like, that is too much. that this theme in my life for all the girlies listening, I feel like it is a similar theme with women feeling like we're too much, too emotional, too complex, whatever it is. And I really tried to make myself small. And it worked because I'm like five foot two. I'm like, I'm physically small, and I just need to be the nice girl, and I need to be really polite, and I need to do what people tell me, and then Then, you know, I'm gonna be accepted and loved and adored, whatever. And it did kind of work for a while, but I felt, I didn't feel like myself because I do have opinions and I do have ideas and I know what I want. I definitely know what I don't want. And it's so fun to be able to stand in a place of power while also being kind. I think I thought if you spoke up, you were not kind, but it's just not true. There's a way to do it.

I think the most powerful human in the world is someone who can courageously share their opinions and create boundaries in a kind and conscious way.

100%.

Not screaming and reacting and get away from me, but actually, you know what you just did? That doesn't work for me.

Yeah.

And I want to let you know, maybe I'm misinterpreting something, but I need to have distance from you for a while, or I need to create this boundary, but actually having the courage To disappoint someone and have someone not like you in order to create safety within you is one of the hardest things to do.

The courage to be disliked, that is powerful. But guess what? You're actually doing things right if people don't like you because living in your truth and I have found that when I've been, and it's kind of what we were talking about earlier, when I have felt the most aligned, been speaking my truth, emanating my inner light, It triggers a lot of people.

Oh yeah.

Oh, it triggers, I've had, the amount of people it's like, there's a couple of people online that were like, I don't believe her. Phony. But it doesn't phase me because I know who I am. So actually, if you're pissing people off or if people don't like you, you're doing something right. Because there has to be duality to everything. Not everyone's gonna love you, not everyone's gonna adore you.

100%.

And actually it took the pressure off of me. I felt like I had to do that. And I'm like, it's too tiring.

You don't need everyone to like you anymore.

No.

Yeah, and you can just be yourself. It doesn't mean you want to like.

Try to piss everyone off. No, no.

And I'm like, please love me.

Please love me. No, it's a good balance.

That's true. Another quote you have talking about this whole journey, this was on, I think, a three-year anniversary post after getting sober. You wrote this on Instagram. It said, I began my journey in remembering who I am. since then, I've experienced moments that can only be described as pure miracles and magic. What are a few of those moments in the last three years since being sober that have been miracles and magic for you?

I think for me, I struggled a lot with being present in every sense of the word. I think that's why I like being an actor, is because I'm forced to be very present. And I connected those dots. I was like, oh my God, that's why I gravitated towards it as a child, because it took me out of my head and I could just focus on whatever I was doing. But my life, there's so much stillness in my life the last couple of years. And I'll just have these moments where it's not anything profound. I'm just like sitting, drinking my coffee with my dogs, and I'll just be so moved to tears by how great I feel. It's almost like I can't believe I'm so comfortable in my own skin. I felt really afraid of myself for a long time. I was afraid of my choices. I felt like, you know, I felt like a wild card. And so to just be really, no.

It was-- Really, you just didn't know any day it could be just something wild or crazy.

Yeah, I mean, sober me, I was, but I was a people pleaser. And so I just never, I felt like I was trying on all of these different masks. and none of them really felt like me. And so now I just like what I meant by that quote about miracles and magic is I feel so connected to myself and I feel connected to my, I call them my team, my guide team up there and I just am in awe of what I've been able to do. I'm in awe of other people. I feel like I have so much empathy for people and what everyone's fighting silent battles we know nothing about. I mean, I'm like the perfect example of that for 10 years. And there were so many people who, I don't have resentment towards them, but like they just didn't know what I was going through. And that's why it's so vital to be kind to always be kind. And I don't think I would have garnered that amount of understanding or empathy had I not gone through what I've gone through. And I don't think, and I don't mean like enable people, but like we don't understand anyone else's point of view or what people are going through. So just be patient.

Do you feel like you were kind and patient with others?

At moments, yeah. And then I would get mad that people wouldn't show up for me. And so then I'm like, oh, was I only doing those things to get something in return? Because that's not actually giving. If I'm giving my time or my energy just because I want them to show up for me, that's selfish. That's people pleasing. And so that was a big wake-up call for me to be like, oh my God, am I not as good of a person as I thought I was? Because People pleasing is actually selfish. Like you can still be a good person, but it comes from a wound. Yeah, and if I act this way, then I'll be accepted and loved and adored.

That was most of my life. It was like trying to fit in or trying to make people happy, especially in intimacy. Yeah. It was like I felt whenever I was single, I was so joyful and I felt like I could be my authentic self. Yeah. And then six months after getting into a relationship or nine months, For whatever reason, I would choose people out of a wound, I'm not making these people wrong, I would choose them out of a wound where they never accepted who I fully was. And they wanted me to change to make them feel safer or more comfortable or whatever. And then I would change to please them. And then I resent myself, I resent them, I resent the relationship. But I was like, I'm gonna try to do whatever it takes to make it work. And then I couldn't get out of the relationship 'cause I was like, I invested all this time. And then it was like a cycle.

And you were like attracting the same type of-- Same person. But this is what I mean about the lesson.

We'll keep repeating until you-- Until it got really painful. And then I was just like, I almost had a similar wake-up call where it's just like, I can't live like this. I've repeated this five, six, seven times now over like 15 years or something. And I've got to look within. I've got to do some healing work. I've got to create boundaries in a conscious way. I've got to learn how to say no. I've got to learn to not people please, all these things. So it was about four and a half years ago when I started the healing journey for myself in a different level. I started healing 12 years ago around sexual abuse, but then four and a half years ago around intimacy and relationship around the people pleasing. And that's when everything started to change for me. Talk about miracles and magic. I mean, it's like I would not be able to create a sense of peace inside of me without doing that healing work. And I know you talked about healing the inner child for about a year during my healing journey, I had a photo on my phone of my eight-year-old self. And so every moment I looked at my phone, I was reminded to reclaim the boy inside of me and to say, you know what? He was screaming at me through eczema or through chest palpitations through like pain in my chest through feeling like someone was choking me. It's like the boy inside of me was saying, take care of me.

Yeah, trying to get your attention.

Stop neglecting me and recreate that integrated healing of oneness of all the parts of me. And it wasn't until I started to really heal the little boy in me and turn around and face myself and the darkness and the wounds and start integrating that's when the pain left my body.

That's so powerful the way you just worded that. And I did talk therapy for many years, and we did a lot of inner child work, a lot of inner child work, a lot of meditations where I visualize myself as a little kid. Even for my, it's interesting to do for other people too, because if you're angry at someone, if you do a meditation or you can even journal about it, envision their inner child, Power. You can't be mad.

It just like --So you see a little girl, little boy who's hurt or sad.

--Everyone'S wounded. We're all wounded. Okay, the thing I just posted today says the irony is that your light grows brighter the more you embrace your darkness. Isn't that crazy? The only way out is through. It's so, so true.

And --What did you learn about Little Lucy when you started doing inner child healing. What did you learn about what she needed most that you were neglecting for her to receive?

I think as a kid and still sometimes now, I think definitely as a.

Child.

I didn't feel like I had emotional safety or I felt like I was, I was a very emotional child, very complex, didn't know what to do with these big feelings like, I'm talking like really questioning some big stuff as a small kid. --What'd you question? --Purpose of life. I remember telling my mom when I was very small, I was like, I feel like I'm gonna die. I feel like I'm gonna die young. I'm talking like three, four years old, crazy stuff. And so there was a darkness there. There was a desire to know, and I was curious about a lot. And I never really felt like I had a lot of people to connect to, and I'm sure Seeing a kid with like that kind of energy probably freaked people out, you know? As an adult, it's cool as hell. Like I love it. I love that about me. But as a little kid, you know.

I-- you- didn't feel emotionally safe.

No, I felt like if I were to express what I was truly feeling, there wasn't always an outlet to go to. Like I-- I spent a lot of time in my room crying because that is where I felt safe to actually be myself. And I think that's also why I spent a lot of time alone. I also want to say my parents are amazing, by the way, I'm not saying. It was just, I don't feel like it was very different than a lot of other kids I knew. And that's why I think music came into my life, because I think it became this safe space for me. But I also think If I were to be sitting next to little Lucy, I think she just wanted to be understood and seen and able to cry if she wants to, able to laugh if she wants to, like just free. I think I just wanted freedom.

Why did you not feel free?

I think without going too deep, I How do I word this?

I.

Think a part of me was really scared of what I was feeling. My intensity, I still get scared of my intensity sometimes. But also, my parents were divorced when I was young, and so I think when something like that happens for a kid around like four or five, I didn't understand what was happening. But of course I'm absorbing the energy of that, and I wanted to make my dad and my mom happy. And so I was like a shapeshifter. I could do whatever I needed to do. I realized early on if I acted this way, that made certain people happy. If I acted this way, it made certain people not happy. So I'm not gonna do that. So I'm just gonna be this person. And so I maybe took on some emotional burdens really young. Once again, no anger or resentment towards that at all anymore. I've sorted through that, but. but also I think even before I moved to LA, I was just, I was growing up quickly. And this is a lot of people's story, right? Like, I'm sure as parents, I'm not a parent yet, I'm sure when you're a parent, you're gonna screw up, you're gonna mess up. They were doing the best they could. And I have been really lucky that they've been very, my sweet mom, she's been so patient with me over the years and I've always been very supported by both my parents. I think at times maybe not understood by them. I think we're all different people, but I have a really good relationship with my mom and a good relationship with my dad, too. I see parts of them in me. I definitely know what I've gotten from my dad and what I get from my mom. It's such a nice place to have forgiven. This is what I mean about not blaming. How many people do you know are like, well, my so-and-so did this, and that's why I'm this way. It's like, okay, keep telling yourself that, and you're gonna keep being miserable. So I was like, I'm gonna stop.

Blaming all the characters in my life. When did you start stop blaming everyone?

Last couple of years.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, this is new. I-- and how does it feel?

I mean, 'cause almost when you're blaming others, you're a victim to what they did.

This is what I mean about the victim mentality. It was, that's what it was like, Oh, well, I came from a child of divorce. It's like, yeah, Lucy, so it's like 90% of America, you know, like get over it. Deal with it. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't wallow in it anymore. Okay, that's the cards you've been dealt. What did it teach you? Everything is a learning experience. Everything that happens to you, good, bad, ugly, pretty, whatever, is there to teach you if you choose to take that route. And I do. It's exhausting sometimes. Sometimes I'm like, ah, ignorance is bliss.

Yeah, I know.

But as you know, once you're on that path, there's no looking back. You don't stop. You don't just say, Nah, I'm good here.

No.

Keep climbing. Keep going.

Yeah, it's tough because once you've, I guess, started to heal and get out of, and really take full responsibility for everything, and Create meaning from the past pain, not saying it's okay what things happened to you, but say, okay, this did happen and I can either be a victim to it or I can take create meaning from it and see how I can be empowered from it.

Exactly.

Once I do that, yeah. Not excuse people's behaviors or whatever or actions, but that's what I was going to say.

Like with your experience, of course you didn't deserve that. Of course people don't deserve for those things to happen to you. Absolutely not condoning that. But it's like you, I'm sure you've had to say, okay, this is what happened. I didn't deserve it. And you've obviously taken such a beautiful path with it.

Yeah, and you can, well, I can either stay in victimhood.

Yeah.

And let that anger fuel me, which I did for a long time. Sure. And it created results out of anger and out of frustration and resentment and feeling abused and taken advantage of. So I was driven to prove people wrong.

Wow.

And it got results. Anger is probably the second most powerful fuel in the world. It will get you what you want.

So true.

But you won't feel the way you want to feel once you get the results. You're not gonna feel it. Love. You're not gonna feel peace. You're not gonna feel alignment because you did everything out of anger, revenge, proving, you know, I'm gonna show them. I'm going to do something as opposed to I'm going to show up for the greatest version of me and live an empowered life to serve and inspire people around me.

Yeah.

And really step into the version of me that I'm most excited about that wants me to become something greater. And I think when we can step into that energy of like, this is a goal and a dream because it's going to help and serve others in the pursuit of this dream, it's just a fuel that is more renewable and Feels more peaceful.

Yeah, so wait, so it's anger, because I agree with you that anger is not necessarily bad, but I also believe there's like a spectrum of emotions, right? And like you can't go from shame, depression all the way to like bliss.

You have to like work up the ladder, right?

You've got to learn through the ladder.

You've got to learn through the ladder is better. Yeah, but I do agree. Because you can only live in anger.

For so long, like it's not sustainable.

Well, an anger causes so many, disease and cancer and frustration hurts and you react in the different ways that you're, you know, like, I wish I didn't say that. Yeah. You have to repair a lot more from anger.

So true.

You're so much more reactive. And you're kind of like blowing and blowing through relationships and burning bridges. You're just like, ah, you know?

Yeah. And so you can get results, but.

Is it going to be a rewarding life? It's so true. And I think the true reward comes from healing. and feeling whole while you create. It doesn't mean you can't tap into the darkness or tap into the memories of the pain, but I think living in that space is very painful. What do they call it?

Emotional alchemy. It's like transmuting it.

Transforming it, transmuting it.

Yeah, that's power.

Yeah, it doesn't mean I'm gonna be perfect every day. I'm gonna have frustration and anger, but it's like, how can I get back to a place of love and peace and calm? Yeah.

And really alignment. It's so true and I think that, you know, when people haven't seen me in a while they're like, oh my god, you're just, you're doing great. And I'm like, I am doing great, but it doesn't, just because you make certain choices doesn't mean that every day is just glowing, glittery sunshine. I mean, there are days where I'm like, I feel like I'm on drugs because I'm so excited about life or passionate. Like, no, it's just like learning, oh, I'm having a really bad day and I'm gonna let myself have a bad day. And then I'm gonna let it go.

And have a better day tomorrow.

And not stay in victimhood for too long. Oh yeah, 'cause it's easy.

Oh God, it's so easy to latch onto it. Yeah. Now how do you navigate, I mean.

We don't have to talk about this.

If you don't want to, but how do you navigate.

Is it about dating?

I was like. Relationships in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to be about intimacy, but when you start to heal, knowing what I've gone through in my past relationship journey of getting into relationships out of a wound, Yeah. Versus getting into or being open to relationships out of wholeness or the journey of wholeness.

Yeah.

How have you reflected on that when you think about previous relationships? And I don't know your dating history. That's not what this is about, but.

Well, how long do you have?

Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's not really about like who you're dating or who you're not or whatever. It's like, how do you navigate.

Your.

Vision for a relationship that she wants? and creating that in your mind, daydreaming again in your mind about the type of relationship you want intimately or personally or professionally and creating from that space.

Yeah.

A vision around values and around a person who's also on a healing journey or who's got growth mindset, not in victimhood or not being attracted to people who have shiny objects about them, but more attracted to their Spiritual alignment. Have you thought about that in terms of working relationships, but also intimate relationships?

I think about it in every type of friendships, family dynamics, romantic relationships, even people that I'm hanging out with just, you know, for a little bit, definitely working relationships. I think all of those have changed astronomically when I started putting myself first, because what happens Yeah, let's go. But I think it's the type of people I was attracting in my past were people who were of a similar wound or were going to trigger my wound. I was caught in that cycle. And that's how the universe works. I'm not a scientist, but Billy Carson can tell you how that works, right? I also was attracting you know, some relationships without getting too specific that weren't for my highest good. But now, oh, I think about this every day. But it's almost like I don't even need to worry about who's coming into my life as long as I'm true to me. Because if I'm embodying the person I want to be with, if I'm living from a place of love, of integrity, of value, of passion, whatever, I can only attract people who are that.

A mirror of that.

No one else can even break through that barrier. And if they do, I recognize it very quickly. And I'm sorry, but they gotta go.

Yes.

Because like I said, where I'm at in my life, work too hard. I have a zero tolerance for people who aren't gonna elevate my life.

Yes.

I'm not pulling people up. I can connect, I can support, I can be there. But especially in intimate relationships, like we have to be of the same mindset. There has to be a similar outlook in the world. Spirituality is very important to me. But yeah, I feel like I'm very clear on the type of people I want to spend time with. Definitely.

What are those values to look for then with someone that could be an intimate partner or a professional relationship? What are the values that they need to embody for you to feel like this is alignment of just being in a relationship with you?

I feel like transparency is super, super important to me. And I feel like when I have that, everything else is okay. Because if you're being honest and transparent with me, like, I can believe your word. I've been in so many dynamics where, you know, especially in LA, people are like, oh, yeah, you know, they'll tell you one thing and you never hear from them again. Never, yeah. And I mean, it's more of I don't know if it's exact values, but I'm seeking out people who are on a similar path as me, who are actively working towards getting to know themselves more, connecting with other people. But yeah, I don't know how you feel, but when you're on this path, like, it's not the, I don't want to say it's hard because that is a limiting belief that it's hard. It's just, I feel like I'm in a phase of my life where it's weeding out the things that are not supposed to be a part of my life anymore.

Cleaning it up.

Cleaning out, cleaning house.

It's interesting, transparency is so key and I really think it's just pure honesty. Everything you say is an honest thing and you're being authentic to the moment. When I started, when Martha and I, my wife started dating, she was asking me very, just honest real questions from the beginning and I go, Are you sure you want to hear the answers? because people usually don't like certain answers of past stuff I've been through or whatever it might be. And she goes, yeah, I always want to hear the truth. I go, okay, well, I'm going to tell you the truth about everything you asked me then. So be ready. But we'll see how you react. If you react where you're like hurt or upset or like angry about something in my past, then it doesn't work for me. Like you have to be willing to receive and accept all of me in my past. It doesn't mean that's like what I'm doing now, but it's like, you got to understand all the complexities of me. And she was, and so from the beginning, I was just like, you sure you want the answer? She was like, Yes. And I would tell her the answer to any question, and she was really great at not reacting with like negative or positive, just like, Thank you for being honest. Even if it was like hard for her to hear something, she was like, Thank you. And she didn't scream or react or run away or anything. And I think when you can be fully transparent with one another, Your word becomes powerful when you can trust the person. Right. But when you're not transparent and you're hiding even little lies here and there.

Yeah, it adds up.

It adds up. And then you're living like two different lives. Yeah. You know the truth inside of you, but you know you're not sharing that fully with the person in front of you.

Right. And I think, you know, this ties back to what little Lucy needed. Like I'm desiring emotional safety. Yes. And for someone to look at me, look at All parts of me, everything I've done, the woman I'm becoming, the woman I am today, and say, I freaking love this woman. Like, I accept all parts of you and just feeling really safe. And I think that that for me, like, I'm not gonna go into my astrological chart, but like emotional safety is so important for me.

Yes.

And to feel seen in that way is like.

What are the things you do for yourself on a daily basis? to create emotional safety for you.

So I know my, I hate this word, but I know my triggers. So overused, but I know my like fault lines. I know what's gonna take me. So it's really important for me to start my day with like pure energy. So I do my best to wake up. I'm not reaching for my phone. Like social media, I wish I could be one of those people where You know, I look at social media for three minutes and I don't think about it, but it's not it. Like my brain goes, I'm gonna grasp onto, you know, I'll just spiral. So I try to, you know, I stay off my phone. It's important for me to have a really intentional morning. And by that I mean whether that's meditating or outside walking with the dogs or just time where I can, I mean, I call it prayer time, but you can call it whatever, talking to the universe, talking to yourself. and I get really clear on what my soul wants me to do that day. I literally ask, what do you need from me today? And so sometimes I'll journal out just stream of consciousness writing, and sometimes I hear really specific things like, Go.

Drive.

This way to get coffee, or Go to this coffee shop, or sometimes I hear nothing and that's okay. But I've been really leaning into learning to trust my intuition and really just getting comfortable with that and getting familiar with what my higher self is trying to tell me to do. But, you know, I'm also really intentional about the places I go, the people I see. I love what I do, so I love being busy with work. But, yeah, I'm just very intentional about what I'm gonna step into. And if I do have to go somewhere where I know it's gonna be overwhelming or maybe not somewhere I'd necessarily go. Just protect myself with that white light and I go and then I all, you know what I do every day? When I get home from like being around a lot of people, I shower, just get all that energy off and I just literally imagine it going down the drain. So I do like a lot of cleansing stuff. That's cool. I do sound healing, meditation, all the things. Energy work, Reiki. I'm obsessed, obsessed with astrology right now. And for me, it's important to remain curious and playful.

I.

Think we're all, as we get, obviously when we get older, we lose that childlike curiosity. And I find that I'm happiest when I'm researching about some very niche topic. So I try to stay curious.

What about, I mean, I think that's beautiful. And playfulness is, I think, the key to staying young.

Yes.

To being playful. And you hear a lot of actors who are like, it doesn't seem like they age. And I feel like it's because you get to play all day. You're like playing character and you're playing fun and you're the role playing. It's just like a yes and mentality. It's not a block. It's more like, let me keep trying. Let me keep exploring.

It's make believe.

It is make believe. What is, you know, I keep hearing you talk about, you know, your spiritual practice. Do you hear messages from God? What is, what does God speak to you? on a consistent basis. What are you hearing, God, Sarah?

I mean, it's more of, sometimes it's not specific words, but it's more of a feeling of just, have you ever experienced this where you're just so overcome with gratitude that you have no doubt in your mind that you're in the exact right place in your life? And that's more what I feel these days. was gonna do the podcast and then saw you at the gym. It's like moments like that, like that is God. God orchestrates things in your life to let you know you're on the right path. Yes. The synchronicities, the signs are always there. So it's more of just feelings. I get goosebumps all the time. Like that is how I know I'm in alignment is it's usually only my left side. It's really interesting.

What happens if you get goosebumps on the right side?

I'm screwed.

It's a bad thing.

I'm screwed. But I do hear, you know, sometimes in meditations, I've heard some interesting things. Like I've heard, do I go here? Yes. Okay, I heard yes. So I've heard like names. I really have. I heard a name in a meditation, and I had no idea what this name was, but I heard it very loudly, and I was like, I don't know a Doris. Who is Doris? So I called my mom. I put it in my Notes app and I called her the next day. I was like, Mom, do we have a Doris or a family? She was like, yeah, honey, that's your great grandmother. Wow. Yeah. So I feel really connected to people who have passed. And I feel like it's hard for me to be still. It's hard for me to quiet my mind, but when I do, the stuff that comes through is really profound. Yeah. Now people are gonna be like, Lucy talks to dead people. I wish.

When was the, so you moved here when you were 15?

Yeah.

When did you feel like you started going off alignment?

Off the rails.

Yeah, kind of just like, all right, maybe it was small to start, but then it was like, what age do you feel like, okay, I wasn't in that pure light consciousness as much anymore. I was starting to like be more in the material world, not the spiritual world, or get into the dark side a little bit more internally.

Yeah. Probably like 18. I think that was around when I was living on my own and I started making, and I'm not saying that living on your own and making money and success equals bad, but for me, yeah, it was around that time I was living on my own and my career was taking off.

If you don't have the right influences or environment around you, you could easily sway into other influences.

Yeah, but it's also like if you're a teenager, We were all doing that for a while. Everyone was wildin' out. Everyone was staying up all night. And so, I would say around like 18, 19, 20, I had the moments of my behavior's a little different than everyone else's and oh, I'm seeing some videos of myself and that seems really scary or like the desire to want to continue the party. I don't even like calling it partying because that makes it sound like it was enjoyable. But like to continue to I guess like the benders started because I was, you know.

Was this just alcohol or drugs and alcohol or just...

Mainly alcohol, but towards the end it was also drugs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there was any like eating behaviors.

Or... Oh, well, so yes. So that was actually my first kind of addictive behavior was I, like undiagnosed, but I definitely had issues with it. I had a... from like 13 to mid-20s and I actually think it was the eating disorder that fueled the drinking.

Really?

One of the reasons because I obsessed so much about my weight and you know the amount of calories or how much I was working out that when I'd drink, I'd eat whatever I wanted and I didn't think about anything and I thought I looked decent enough to go... you know it was... it just like really you know, it gave my mind a break from all of that. And so I think it was a reprieve from interesting that turmoil. Yeah.

And so it's like two extremes.

Yeah.

Like during the week, I'm counting calories and obsessing about what I'm eating. And then on the weekend, I'm drinking whatever and eating whatever. Yeah. Has a kind of a release.

Yeah. And that's pretty common for people with addictive behaviors, that you'll channel it into something different. So. So the, like, the 15 years where I was On and off sober, I did have long periods of sobriety, but the eating disorder would kick up. And then, you know, so it was constantly being fueled. One addiction to the next. Yes, and that's really common. So a lot of people that get sober will fall back into ED territory or.