MULTI-BILLIONAIRES Share The 8 Simple Steps To SELF-MADE SUCCESS | Lewis Howes

Whatever success I had came more from my knowing how to deal with.

I had no option. In my mind, I was like, I am scripting a new life for myself.

Success is how well do you do.

What you do when being successful in business is not easy. But that's why I talk about just simple tools in here.

Today is the day you start becoming more successful than ever before, because I'm bringing you in this video some of the richest billionaires in the world to give you the tools to in order to transform your life. You're just like, I'm so hungry, and I'm willing to sacrifice to stay competitive. And you were telling me that most people aren't willing to stay competitive for a long time. And that's what's really I've seen and admired about you, is how you're able to buy, you know, the Houston Rock. It's how you're able to do these big projects and buy these things because you're so competitive. Consistently over decades, where most people go in for three to five years, something doesn't work out, and then they stop their competitive edge. So how do you keep that edge?

You know, it's really interesting because I did an interview yesterday with somebody who's really popular right now, and they're very young, and yet they said they already have those valleys where they went into a funk. Like they were burned out after, like.

Two years of working hard or something.

Yeah, yeah. And I just said, you know what's funny is I've never had a burnout ever. And I've been going like this for a long time.

Decades.

35, 40 years even. I mean, I started going at it in my teens, hard, and I never had that burnout. And I think that's kind of a state of mind that you're going to get burnt out if you want to get burnt out. But I always was going like this, and so I just kind of felt like I'm so fortunate to have it going. Why should I ever let the momentum go the other way then? Of course, one of my great sayings is there's positive people and negative people. And when you're with a negative person or you're with a positive person, one of two things is going to happen. The negative person is going to make the positive person negative, or you're going to take the negative person and make them positive. So I've always paid attention to who I've always been around also, and I never wanted to be around people that didn't want to achieve. But I've Never even come close to saying, I'm done. I'm burned out. I'm not doing this anymore.

Right.

How do you spot the people who are truly wanting to achieve and who have that positive energy? Because sometimes people, you could bring people on your team and they could have that in the beginning, but they can kind of lose that or they can spin off a negative cycle. Do you. Are you very loyal to the people that you have in your companies to give them multiple chances? Or is it like, okay, enough is enough.

What a great question that is, because I even list a bunch of people at the front of this book who really helped make me become who I am. Because even though I'm the leader, I'm the bull. You are dependent on people. When you build a company my size of 60,000 people, that's it.

Pretty small, right?

And I truly probably have 25 vice presidents that average 25 years.

Wow.

Okay. And I tease my people about this all the time. I go, I never, ever in the last 35 years have probably lost direct answers to me. Maybe one or two people. And so why are y' all losing them every year?

Right, right.

And so when people ask me, what. What are you most proud of? And I think it's the people that truly deal with me on a day to day basis. Even my assistants. I have one for 27 years and I'm one for 26 years. You know, they truly grew up with me. You know that we're young girls. And so. And I think it is. If they tell you, they say that's the hardest son of bitch to work for in the world, but I would not work for anybody else.

Wow.

I think that's what they would all tell you.

I mean, in a world where it seems like everyone wants to change jobs every year or two because they want something new and exciting, how do you cultivate that culture or environment where they're like, still excited every year? Is it because you're acquiring new companies all the time?

I think that's part of it, is that they know that we're the bull and that, you know, even in tough times, if I call them into my boardroom, it's not, hey, we're getting bought out, it's who are we buying? Because we eat the weak in bad times. So it's, I think it's leadership, you know, respect. It's knowing that we're the bull out there in our industries.

For those who don't know what you mean by the bull, who haven't read the book, what does that mean? To be the bull.

Just, you're the ones always that everybody else is worried about. We bought a couple of companies in the last week and it's because we were opportunists and we are the ones who can always deliver and we're the ones who have the funding, the due diligence, to do it quickly. We outwork people. A lawyer of mine who handles all the M and A, he was at the office from 9am Sunday a week ago till Monday night at 9pm 36 straight hours getting a deal done. Okay, it's just a culture of we are the best. And not that there's not great companies out there and we're just still in the whole world a company, but in what we do, in doing mergers and acquisitions, in the restaurant business or gaming business or whatever, aquariums, amusement parks. But we outworked everybody to get the Houston Rockets. I mean, my team, during Hurricane Harvey, when everybody was flooding, was still at the office trying to get that contract signed because we wanted it done by Monday of Labor Day during the big flood in Houston.

Is that right?

100%. And. But the Houston Rockets went on the market on July 17, and we signed the deal up on September 5 for the most money ever paid for a professional sports team. So it's just saying we're going to get it done before anybody else can.

Now, why pay the most premium? Why not try to like, create the win win, get the best deal for yourself? Why say I'm going to overpay? Maybe it's not an overpay in your mind, but why do that? And when everyone's telling you, maybe that's.

A little too much, you know, because I, I listen, I listen. And I'm going to tell you what I heard. I heard from some very, very smart people. And this is one of the reasons that the book's titled Shut up and Listen is because I do listen. And I had some really smart people who know a lot of people who went after sports franchises say they quit too soon. It's the biggest regret they ever had. Meaning they sold the business franchise. They went after, say, the LA Clippers, they went after the Golden State Warriors. They went after and people that could afford to do it and they just said, oh, I'm not gonna pay that extra hundred million or two hundred million or whatever. And then they had to go buy a team in the years to come somewhere else, not in their hometown, whatever. And so I was told there's, you know, there's never been a team sell for less in sports. And it's just a mistake you don't make. And so I listened to people and said, you could regret this. And it's kind of funny, but I already knew I was not gonna lose, okay? I was not gonna lose this opportunity. And when other people, I even had the Tad Brown, who I've known for years, who runs the business side of the team even today, called me at one point and said, y' all weren't in the room kicking tires like some of the other people. Are you losing interest? I said, no, Ted, I haven't lost interest at all. I said, everybody else is in there trying to justify how do you pay $2 billion? Because they made it really clear that they wouldn't sell it for under 2 billion.

Wow.

They're all trying to figure out how you pay that for it. I was out there making sure I could raise the money. And so.

I like that.

And no, seriously, because you weren't even thinking.

You were saying, I'm going to.

Right.

I knew that the team on a bad year is gonna make 40 million and on a good year is gonna make 90 million. Okay? I knew that. Okay? And I'd known tad for 15 years. But if you start trying to say, okay, if it makes 40 million or it makes 80 million, it's gonna take me to 50 million, do you pay 1.9 million or 1.8 billion or 2.2 billion? It has nothing to do with it. Okay? Okay. And so while everybody else was doing due diligence that way, even people that have a lot more money than me, okay, they're trying to get there and they missed the box. Okay? They were looking at the wrong thing instead of realizing this is a 10 year play. And I could promise you one thing. I bought this team in2016. In 2026, it'll be worth $3 billion.

Okay?

Yes. Okay. It's already moved up in value. So it's just the feel and knowing what to do and not getting caught up in the due diligence, that doesn't matter. And I think one of the reasons I've been successful is because nobody does due diligence on an acquisition more than my team does. But it's just don't get caught up in the things that don't matter, like price of a few hundred million. And then. And you know what's so funny? And then you know how it got their attention? Everybody else wrote letters. They said, okay, we want everybody's letter of intent today. Everybody had all the kind of buyers, all the potential buyers. Everybody had all kind of ins and outs and everything. And you know what I did? I said, I'm Gonna put up $100 million, non refundable, no financing contingency, no NBA approval contingency. And if something happens, I'll walk away and lose it. Okay, so that.

With the previous owner?

Yeah, with the previous owner, yeah.

Wow. No one else would go in.

Nobody else will do that.

And you were.

That's the second time I've done that. And it worked for me because my great casino in Lake Charles, right outside of Houston, I did the same thing.

50 million, right? Or 40 million?

50 million. 50 million, yeah. So it's worked for me twice. I hope I have the opportunity to do it again, that it's something I want to do that bad.

What is the things that people should be looking at. You mentioned people are looking at the wrong things. They're thinking about the price or the other things. What should they be thinking about if they want to acquire something? Whether you're a small business owner that wants to acquire something for a hundred grand, or you're, you know, a billionaire like yourself trying to acquire something for 2.2 billion. What is the thing they look for?

Well, if it's something that you really, really want and you can afford it and it doesn't really matter, you should just go get it. Okay.

Why is that? For the peace of mind.

It's just for the peace of mind and so you never regret it. Okay. I can go back 20, 25 years ago, and I've been asked this the last few days. What is. I had a chance to buy this unbelievable car collection about 25 years ago that had great muscle cars. Right when they were. It was unbelievable. And I was really buying it at a bargain because the father had died, the son was selling it, didn't give a damn. And I lost a deal over a couple hundred thousand dollars that today, if I owned that, I would just walk in there and say, this is mine. I just love it. And I learned a lesson. And 25 years later, that's the one deal that comes back and haunts me because I negotiated a little bit too hard for something that really mattered. Now, let's look at in a box of a real business deal, you can't get caught up emotionally. There's always another deal. And I walk away from deals all the time. Really all the time. Because there's. There's always another deal. But you know what? There's only so many great car collections. There's only one NBA team in your own hometown. Okay. And so there's certain things you don't worry about, and that's where you have to be smart and say, there's always another casino to buy or another restaurant company to buy. But, but, but keep. Keep it right. Know what's in the box and know what's out of the box.

I'm glad you said that, because I. I acquired something a couple years ago that I was. I did this move without knowing I was doing a Tillman move. Greatness.com was available, and it was probably overpriced.

What was it?

Greatness.com.

Okay.

Okay.

In my space, you know, there's only one word for domain, and my. My word is greatness. With the square Right podcast, I wanted to build something bigger than just this show and wanted to build a media engine around this word that every athlete uses. When I see them talking about on social media and press conferences, 100 brands about it and their slogans, built for greatness. Pursuit of greatness.

I love that.

I was just like, I want to own this word. I don't want anyone else to have the word. I want to own it. There's only one domain in the world. You know, it's like a franchise of one. And I was just like, I want that.

And were you able to get it?

I bought it.

Yeah.

For.

I know, but I'm surprised you could get it trademarked because it's a word.

I know.

Trademark. Just the domain.

Okay.

Just a domain so I can build.

Or anything I want to build on it for my media engine or. Yeah. Content for all that stuff. My books, everything that I have, I can build around that word. But it gave and I haven't used it yet. I just have it. It just redirects to my personal site because I want to build it the right way. But for me, it gives me peace of mind that no one else can build something. It confused my audience.

No, because it's such a strong word.

Strong.

And it's something that we all are after every day. The people who want to be.

Exactly.

Okay. And so I love that in you.

Learn how to continue to level up like you're doing now.

And what success really means I'd like to share with you and your audience. I'm working at Stuart's Cleaners. I come there one day after John Marshall High School. That's what was my job after high school. I swept the floors, I brushed the blankets, I put the little drapes on the hangers and all that good stuff. So I came there and Stuart, who was tight, this guy Was so tight he squeaked when he walks. Really a tight one. He had to pay me a dollar and a quarter an hour because it was required for young people. You could not pay him less than that. Okay. Or he'd pay me 50 cents an hour.

So I go in the late 50s now.

This is now going into the late 50s. Yeah, it would be the late 50s, early 60s, late 50s. Anyways, Stuart said to me, I want to talk to you, Johnny. That's what they called me in those days. Okay. I said, oh my God, what did I do wrong? You know? He says, last night I was working late and that little mezzanine where we have the cot upstairs, I wanted to rest a bit, so I went up there, took my wash off, put on the little table and. And it dropped on the floor. Now this is a cot with those old spring cots that open on the bottom, a little mattress on top. He says, I reached down to get it and I noticed under the cot there wasn't any dust. He said, I just moved it. So he moved this thing and the filing cabinets behind.

There was no dust.

He says, you move everything when you clean it. As if I'm washing you all the time. I said, stuart, I like my job. My mom growing up had my brother and I clean the house. We would do dishes, everything. We were part of it. You hired me for a job, I'm going to do it whether you're lucky or not. He says, I've never ever had anyone work for me that does that. Well, I'm going to give you a raise. You're now making $1.50 an hour. Now, where I went to high school for those kids that even were lucky enough to have a job, I probably was the highest paid kid at the time. But it showed me this. What is success? Success is not how much money or how much power you have. Success is how well do you do what you do when no one else is looking and keep on doing it. Successful people do all the things unsuccessful people don't want to. And my two biggest suggestions to people that are entrepreneurs, working for someone or working for yourself as an entrepreneur is two things. One, be prepared for a lot of rejection. You're going to get it selling encyclopedias. The average lifespan is three days. It's door to door commission only. I'll work. No leads.

And everyone says, no, oh no.

They say, no, oh God. But they told me and I believed them, that when you do it, if you knock on 50 or 100 doors and they slam it in your face, it's the guys that have that energetic attitude to keep on going and don't let it get you. Knock on door number 100, just as enthusiastic as door number one and you'll succeed. And he was right. I don't know. If it was 100 doors, 150 doors, nobody would let me in. Finally let me in. Did I make the first sale? No. But I eventually, after a week, made a sale and I believed what they said. So one of the great things is if you're ready for rejection, whether it's your parents, your friends that say you don't have enough money, you don't look like this, you're not that going to like you. We hate your idea. No matter what it is, you're going to get rejection. When people say, no, no, no, no, no, you know you're going to get it. Be prepared for rejection. If you're prepared, it's not going to hurt you as much. The second thing we already covered, go into the reorder business. Have the quality of your product or service so darn good, people are going to reorder. Use it again.

Yeah. Why do you think now, especially so many people are afraid of rejection. I feel like people don't want to launch something, their business idea, their book, a podcast, whatever it is, because they're so afraid of what might happen. Wrong.

That is an unbelievably perfect question. What world are we looking in today? Okay, an example politically, no disrespect, so you know where I stand politically. I am an independent. I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican. I actually give to both parties, but only individuals that I like or think are gonna do something. So I'm in the middle right, but what do I see around me? This is not America. If you're, for example, God forbid, someone that puts up a trump sign. Not that I agree with them, okay, but someone puts up a soft sign, it's, oh, you're a racist. Oh, my God. You don't believe in freedom and you don't believe in ecology. Wait, wait, hold on. You don't have to say that to people. They may be wrong. You may believe differently or vice versa. You know, we should be socialistic. Everybody should have everything free. It's like, well, wait a minute. Why are you segregating America? Is we the people of the United States of America? I don't care if you're to the left, to the right. Express your opinion and don't put somebody down for their opinion. But whether someone is right or somebody is wrong. We've got to stick together. We can't have a split nation. And I think if we go forth with love and realize that it's going to be good in everything we do.

Sure, yeah. Is that why you think people are afraid to say something, to put. To launch a business, to create something in the world because they're going to get so much hate or backlash or rejection?

That is correct.

Because they're just afraid of the.

The world.

A lot of people are afraid because they look at both sides, how everyone is putting everybody down. As this one is saying, if you vote for them, you're going to start losing jobs, the economy is going down. Now, whether that's right or wrong, who knows? Right the other side, if you vote for this guy, again, whatever. You know, look at all the misery that's going to happen. Wars, everyone hates us. I mean, it's one against the other. Well, of course you'd be afraid. And then we're through a time in our lives where a lot of people aren't working, A lot of people are. Are saying a lot of things about other people. One of the great rules of life, and this guy wrote this great book. Was it the four and five Agreements?

The four agreements.

Four agreements.

And they were called five agreements. One of them in there is the most important agreement of it all. And it is this. Do not spread gossip or put anybody down. You start spreading the wrong information to people, and all of a sudden you find out you were wrong. They told someone, they told someone else. They told somebody else, you're destroyed. Now you find, oh, no, it wasn't true. One of them is, don't be around people that gossip. Stay away from that. If there's bad news, don't give it out. Look at the higher side, the positive side. Because you tell one person and if they're low on the tone scale, they're going to tell another. And if someone's really down, they're low or angry or upset, they're going to say, oh, yeah, this is the truth. And tell others to kind of agree with how they're down, how everyone should be down. Because look how bad things are opposed to. No, no, no, no. Things aren't that bad. That's why I'd love to share this story with you and your podcast. You let people see the truth by people knowing. I started Paul Mitchell with $700. My partner threw in 350. My mom put in some money, not even knowing that's what she was doing. And I put a little bit. America still Works. It's we the people. All this negativity, don't pay attention to it. Look at the higher side. Yes, there's things wrong. There have been things wrong with our lives for millenniums, my God, maybe for lifetimes, okay? But each time, we're getting better. Each time, whether you like that president or not, that's in there. There's something good you could find out that's been done to please all of us. Look at the upper side. Look at the past, people. There's something good that's being done. And when you move forward, if you move forward with a positive attitude, no matter who becomes president, you help our country become better. Instead of stalling and saying, well, I'm not going to do anything because I don't like that president. Sure, it's we the people of the United States of America. And it's we the people on business. Don't be afraid. Put your message out there. Put it out there. It's okay. So many people are afraid to put their message out because, well, that might be too much this way, too much that way. Ooh. People may consider that instead of solar energy, it's a new form of energy. I can only talk about solar energy, otherwise I'm going to be big in trouble. You know, be free. God wants you to be free. He created you in his image. He wants you to be free to speak your word. If someone doesn't agree, that's their problem. But don't put anybody down for saying their word or their products or their slew. And don't be afraid to start something, people. We started Paul Mitchell when it was the worst scenario ever. With no money. We weren't afraid. We believed in ourselves. With all the doors closed, we kept on going forward. When the going's tough, the tough get going.

That's true. Yeah. It seems like people are more afraid of the fear of rejection than actually being rejected. It's like they've never even been rejected, but they're just afraid that it might happen in the future. How does someone learn to overcome the fear of potentially being rejected?

Great question. Okay, first of all, what is fear? Fear is the unknown. It's the only reason people are afraid. They're afraid because they don't know what's going to happen. They don't know what this person's going to do. They're afraid. They don't know the outcome. So if you're fearful, find the problem or find the unknown. Even in a problem, there's an unknown. When the unknown is exposed, there's no longer a problem. Find the unknown and go forward. And don't create things because they don't exist.

Were you ever afraid of rejection personally or since you were just doing door to door for so long and tried so many different things that you would experience so much rejection that you embraced it? Is that how you got overcame the fear of it?

I could tell you the one that is the funniest of them all. I'm 11 years old. I'm in Atwater, California, walking up Boise Street, I think it was with my friend Michael Vucic, who sold papers with me. And we came up with the greatest idea. Let's make a song. We'll go together with our newspaper in hand. We'll go door to door, we'll split the orders. We got a dollar for every new order, by the way. That was a lot of money when we were kids, right? We'll split it, you know, and together we'll present it. And we came up with a song. And the song was Good evening. Good evening. We're the examiner boys. If you'll subscribe to the examiner, we'll sing a song for you. Like that, right? So Michael and I never did this before. We went to our first door, knocked, had our papers. The minute he opened the doors, we started singing. The minute we were done, we looked at each other and just ran away. This guy thought we were nuts. We just ran away. That was the only time after that we could do anything. And yes, you get a lot of rejection. But when I actually got out there and door to door sales, cycling encyclopedias, it struck it with me. You must knock on all the doors, overcome that rejection. I would say I learned more about overcoming rejection. For the four years I sold encyclopedias door to door commission. Only then we could ever imagine. Yep, four years. Average guy lasts three years. So, yeah, when I got in the Navy in 64 to 65, 66, 67, three years, three years or so books.

You know, after the Navy.

After the Navy.

What was the big lesson you learned while being in the Navy?

Greatest lesson I learned is when I was in Washington State a couple years ago and I received the Lone Sailor Award. I gave the lesson out. Being in the Navy, I was a normal everyday human being, okay? And I became an officer many years after I got in the Navy, in an admiral, but that's a whole different story. But being in the United States Navy as an enlisted man, what I learned was I graduated from high school, I was a common person. How a bunch of common people could get together and be trained Properly. But as a team, they achieve extraordinary results. Boy, did I learn that lesson. Meaning that you can't do it alone. I'm a common person. But let's get us ordinary people together, be taught properly, and as a team, we achieve extraordinary results. That I learned out of the Navy, and I thought it was a great thing to do. And of course, how to really be neat with my clothes, you know, really neat, and package them. And how to listen to people when you may not agree with them, but there you have no choice. When they say do something, you just do it. But I learned how to do that easily. So it was an easy segue for me to go along with other people I didn't agree with, but I would listen to them. And I learned the famous word selling encyclopedias. When someone said no, or even not selling, we were talking about something and someone has a different viewpoint than mine. I learned the magical words. I could appreciate that, however. So you could tell me that, oh, this is white. I say, well, no, no, it's black. We're not going to go back and forth. I'm going to say, you know, I can appreciate that. I can say, however, from my viewpoint with my lens, it turns out to be black, you know, but we all see things a little differently, and here's why. Through my lens, it's doing it. I'm agreeing with you. I'm not saying you're wrong. It's like, even in selling, would you like this? No, sorry, we have too many lines. Well, you know, I could appreciate that. I really can't. However, if you would just take half of this order, I will not only guarantee it'll be one of the greatest things you'll ever have, but within one month, anything you haven't sold out the door or used, we'll take back and give you your money back. Now, that's fair enough, isn't it? No, I'm sorry, no. Why should I push your line? You're an unknown line and have all these other lines, the big ones. I could appreciate that. However, I know you're going to succeed with this. There's no way you can lose money. I'll come back, hold a class with you. I would do that three times, and in most cases by the third time, they at least bought one or two bottles from. Sometimes they bought nothing from me. Okay? Like for a whole week I made 12 sales. And I think I'm pretty good at presenting something. It was tough, but I stuck with it. And then I made more and more as time went on.

I'm curious about what you learned in the Navy and how you applied it to business from this teamwork mentality. Was there something you learned in the Navy that actually you saw within the first year, five years of Paul Mitchell that you were able to apply, that accelerated the growth?

Oh, definitely. Is give normal people that are ordinary people an opportunity to achieve on their own. Jp I lean you so much. So to go to the next step, I needed a Luke Jacobe Ellis. I need a gym. I need Henrietta. I need more people to know what the heck they're doing. Okay? Because I don't. But I know if we get together as a team, we'll be able to succeed. And that's where I learned. And it was the hardest lesson to learn because I wanted to do everything, be in charge of this and that and that and the late 80s, I couldn't do that anymore. So getting into 1989, 1990, it was, let's bring the others in and work together as a team. Well, along the way, I was lucky. Some really brilliant people that had already done something great already got involved with us. But that's where I learned it. You know, you can't do it all. You need a team to work with.

For those that don't know Spanx, can you share how it all started so we have an understanding of what it is and how you got into it?

Absolutely. It actually started with my own butt because I couldn't figure out what to wear under white pants. And I'm sure you've had this problem.

When you're getting dressed all the time.

So what ended up happening was there was, you know, Reg, our undergarment options were no good. There was underwear that left a panty line, and then there was the girdle that was way too thick and heavy. And so then they came out with the thong, which just put underwear exactly where we've been trying to get it out of wedgie. And so Spanx was born out of just being a frustrated consumer. I wanted to wear my clothes. I wanted a smooth canvas. I didn't want to see lines or any kind of things going on underneath. So by taking the hosiery material, which was meant to be seen on the leg, until Spanx sort of looked at it with a different lens and said, no, no, no. I want the hosiery material to actually be what I create the undergarment out of. And it was wild trying to convince the hosiery manufacturers to help me make this product with that in mind, because for so many years, they'd been material to be seen on the leg.

Right.

I said, no, it's just. It's the perfect material to create the perfect canvas for women under our clothes. And it opened up my wardrobe, opened up so many other women's wardrobe. We could start wearing colors we didn't feel comfortable wearing. And the models get airbrushed. We get Spanx.

There you go. There you go. I love it. And when was this?

What year this was in? Well, I cut the feet out of my pantyhose in 19. 1998.

Wow.

Yes. I was 2718 years ago.

Am I doing my math?

Yes, I was 27, and then I spent the next two years getting it made. I worked at night and on the weekends on the idea while I was selling fax machines door to door. And then the company was launched in 2000 when I was 29.

Wow.

Yeah.

Selling fax machines door to door. Where were you living?

In Clearwater, Florida.

Okay.

Where I grew up, fax machines on Clearwater Beach.

Are there fax machines anymore around?

No. I mean, thank God I'm not still doing that. I don't know what would have happened. There are no more fax machines.

Just like no one watches the movie Airplane anymore.

I cannot believe I need to know. Is. Is he the only one on the planet who's not seen the movie Airplane? I was quoting Airplane. As soon as I put the headset on, I'm like, stryker, you're too low.

You're too low.

And you just stared at me like.

What is she talking about?

That's it, guys.

So how long were you selling the fax machines?

I sold the fax machines door to door for seven years.

Seven years.

Yes, I know. And before that, I wanted to be a lawyer, but I failed the LSAT not once, but twice.

And you wanted to be a lawyer. That was your job.

I wanted to be a lawyer. I was like, I'm gonna be a lawyer.

But you wanted to be a lawyer, but it didn't work out.

I wanted to be a lawyer. I failed the lsat. Not once, twice. So then instead of going to law school, I drove to Disney World and tried out to be Goofy. But you have to be 5, 8, and 5, 6, and I'm 5, 6.

So you didn't wear heels?

No, I didn't wear heels. I didn't wear heels. And so I was the height of a chipmunk.

So you got the chipmunk.

I got the chipmunk part, but I didn't end up doing it. I put people on rides in a brown polyester Spacesuit at the World of Motion and horizons at Epcot.

Epcot Center.

And I would see people that I hadn't seen in a while and come through. Yeah, I'm walking on the moving sidewalk, putting people on rides. And they'd go, hey, Blakely, is that you? Didn't you graduate from college? And my big Mickey Mouse here said, sarah Blakely.

And I'd be like, yes, get on the ride.

Oh, my gosh.

But that's what I did. And then I sold fax machines door to door for seven years. Seven years.

Did you wake up every morning and say, this is my dream to sell fax machines door to door? Were you thinking, no, what am I doing in my life?

Exactly. So what happened was a lot of people think that Spanx started when I cut the feet out of my pantyhose, but actually it started long before that. It started when I was selling fax machines door to door and getting my car business card ripped up in my face, being escorted out of buildings all day, every day that I woke up one day and just thought, I'm in the wrong movie. Like, how did this happen? This is not my life. Cut. Scene. Director. Like, call the producer. And I got out a piece of paper and I wrote down, what am I good at? And the only thing in the good column was sales. And I thought, okay, what am I gonna do with that? And I ended up writing in my journal, I'm going to invent a product and sell it to millions of people. That will make them feel good. And then I asked the universe for an idea, and I was very specific, and it took two years, and I only cut the feet out of my pantyhose one time. And I was not going to squander any idea the universe gave me because I had really asked for it. And then the minute I cut the feet out, I started trying to make it. I started looking up manufacturers on the Internet.

This is before Alibaba, wasn't it? Yes, because I joined this. I did this about eight years ago, and I used Alibaba for something, and it was easy to find, like, a manufacturer in China and test different things. But how did you find a manufacturer at that time?

A website called thomasregistry.com and it lists all the manufacturers in the country based on category. And that's when I found out that a lot of hosiery and undergarments were being made in North Carolina.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So you got a local.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I called and called, and no one would take my call. And they'd either hang up on me or say they weren't interested. So I took a week off of work and drove around in person and just showed up. And I just showed up.

I want to create a sample.

Yeah.

Because if they weren't gonna get a big order for something, they're probably like, what's gonna do a little sample for you.

Right, Right.

Yeah.

I showed up with my lucky red backpack from college. Always with me.

You still have it?

Yeah, of course. And you didn't bring it here? Come on, it's with me. It's with me in la. Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So anyway, I went into the host. The manufacturing plants, and they asked me the same three questions. And you are, let's say, Sarah Blakely. And you're with myself, and you're financially backed by it. I was like, sarah Blakely. So you can imagine how those went. It was like, well, have a nice day, honey, and good luck. And about, you know, a few weeks after I made all those rounds, I got a call from a guy in North Carolina who had took pity on me, said, sarah, I've decided to make your crazy idea.

Wow.

And when I asked him why had the change of heart, he said, I have three daughters.

Wow.

Yeah. So he ran the idea by them, and they're like, dad, that sounds interesting. You got to give that girl a chance.

Amazing. So he called you back. You didn't follow up with these people?

Oh, yeah, I was following up to no avail.

But he followed up and said, yeah, we'll give it a shot. Yes, we'll make this. So what was the next step? Was he just making a sample for you or testing different models or sizes or.

Yeah. So it just set up to make the garment. While I was making it with his manufacturing plant, I was also wanting to patent the idea, and I was also trying to come up with the name for the invention. So I was doing those three things simultaneously, driving up on the weekends and working with Ted in the back of the manufacturing plant that I'd become very close with.

Driving to North Carolina. From Florida?

No, from Atlanta. I was living in Atlanta.

What's that about eight hour drive?

Six hour drive?

About four and a half.

Oh, it's not bad.

Yeah, it's not bad. And so anyway, Ted became my buddy, and I went to get it patented. But all the patent lawyers wanted between three and $5,000, and I had $5,000 set aside to do this.

That's it? Yeah.

So I wrote my own patent. I went to Barnes and Noble.

No way.

And I Bought a book called Patents and Trademarks and I wrote the patent. And then I called one of the patent lawyers that was the nicest to me and said, please, please, please, will you write the claims over the weekend for a discounted price? I've done all the other rest of the patent.

The legwork you'd done.

Yeah, you just kind of needed to.

Button it up and.

Yeah, you needed to sign it off, the legal part. And so he did. He actually admitted to me that when I came to visit him, he thought I'd been sent by candid camera, which let me put it in your can of camera.

I know.

He thought he was being punked.

Of course. Of course.

Wow.

Yeah, he thought he was being punked. Okay.

And he thought, where's Ashton? Where's Ashton?

Yeah, exactly. He thought that his friends were playing a joke on him.

No way.

Yeah. He goes, who's this girl Sarah? I mean, like, you're not the typical person who walks in the door saying, I've got a product and I want to patent it. So anyway, he did that then at the same time, I'm trying to think of the name. I had horrible names written on scrap pieces of paper all over the place in my apartment, in my car and rental cars, on the back of like Avis agreements. And you want to hear how bad the runner up name to Spanx was?

Yeah.

Open Toed Delilah's.

No way.

Yes.

I cannot believe that was even an option.

It was. It was the runner up. Like, how bad is that?

Open Toed Delilah?

I so wouldn't be sitting here with you right now if I named it.

That is the horrible.

Yeah, it's so bad.

Wow.

Yes. So anyway, okay, so Spanx stand for. Well, it's all about the butt. Makes your mind wander a little bit. Nobody ever forgets it. I had no money to advertise. It was risky. It was fun at the time. Listen. Now it's become a household name. But when I first invented it, I would call people and say, hi, I'm Sarah from Spanx. And they would hang up. Right.

I thought it was probably like a porn.

Yeah.

They thought I was pranking them. I'm called. I'm like, no, really, I'm Sarah. My company really is called Spanx. And I had department stores across the country that wouldn't sell it. They thought it was too risque of a name. Yep. And my mom sent her whole luncheon to the wrong website. When I first started, I was like, mom, it's with an X. Oh my God. Super important. It's with an X. So, yeah. Anyway, I ended up buying the words Spanx from a man who said he was holding out from the porn industry. Funny enough that you say that.

I bet. Yeah, I paid Spanx with an X.

I paid money for that. But anyway, yes.

So amazing.

Named it Spanx. It came to me because I narrowed down my thinking. I knew that Kodak and Coca Cola were the two most recognized names in the world at the time. And I thought, what do they have in common? I like to think about words and phrases a lot. They both had a strong K sound in them. And the man that created Kodak liked the K sound so much, he took a K and put it in the beginning and the end of the word and played with letters in the Alphabet. And I also had a bunch of friends who did stand up comedy. And it's this weird trade secret among comedians that the K sound will make your audience laugh. So I put all that together, and I'm like, okay, I want my product name to have the K sound in it for good luck. And literally, Spanx came across my dashboard in my car, in my mind. And I pulled off the side of the road, I wrote it down. I went home that night, I typed it in my computer for $150 with my credit card. And at the last second, I backspaced the K and the S and put in an X and hit send.

So it was accident, kind of with.

The X, you backspaced.

Gotcha.

I backspaced because I stared at it for a while, and I had done research that made up words do better for product than real words, and they're easier to trademark. So then I had the name and I had the patent in the works, got my prototype, and my patent lawyer said, sarah, I need to know what's in this garment in order to write the patent. I said, okay, no problem. We'll call Ted. So I get Ted on the phone. I'm like, ted, can you talk to manufacturer? Yeah. Like in the back. Yes. I'm like, ted, can you talk to my patent lawyer? He's like, yeah. So we're all talking, and he goes. I go, can you tell him what's in it? He's like, yeah. Well, it's 70 nylon and 30% lacquer. And I'm like, all right. And so I'm taking notes. My patent lawyer's taking notes. And that night, I could not sleep. I'm up all night, and the next morning I wake up, I'm like, how is there lacquer in this product.

What is lacquer? Just so I'm aware.

I think it's like paint thinner or something.

Okay. So I called 30 paint thinner.

So I called Ted. I go, Ted, can you spell lacquer? He's like, yeah. L, Y, C, R, A. I'm like, oh, my God. Lycra.

Oh, yeah.

I was like, got all change on lacquer. Immediately my patent lawyer was laughing. You know how fast you would have gotten a patent if you tried to make this out of paint thinner? He's like, they would be like, sure.

So was it challenging to get it? Did you get it the first try, the patent?

I did.

Wow.

Usually it takes a few turns, doesn't it?

I got the patent the first try, and I got the trademark name Spanx.

Amazing.

Yeah.

So it didn't seem like there was that many challenges. Once you submitted it or whatever, you kind of got the things you needed in place. You got the orders in. Was. Was there a lot of challenges after that? Once you got the patent, the trademark?

That was a really hard part. Is just. I heard the word no for two years. Yeah. All the manufacturers, nobody thought it was a good idea. And. And also, when you're just yourself trying to break into an industry, like you mentioned the manufacturers, it's not really in their best interest to slow down machines or try to give a girl with a couple grand a chance.

Unless you're gonna give them a bunch of money for a big order of something.

Right. So that was the hard part. And then once I had it, I cold called Neiman Marcus, and that was the first account I called on.

Did you get it?

Yes.

Well, you were great at sales so you could sell it.

I was so excited. It was my moment. I flew to Dallas. I called them and said, if you give me 10 minutes of your time, I'll come and meet with you. And she said, all right.

This is a buyer.

Yep, the buyer. I first called the Atlanta store. They're like, girl, we can't help you. We have a buying office. I'm like, well, where is that?

Give me their number.

And I went in, and halfway through my pitch, I could tell I was losing her. So I said, you know what? Will you please come to the bathroom with me? And she was like, so buttoned up. I mean, Neiman Marcus. Like, her pen matched her belt. That matched her shoes. And she was like, what?

Like, what am I going to do in the bathroom? I know.

I was like, just follow me to the bathroom and show you my own panty line. And I went in the stall with Spanx in my pants and without it in my pants. And she was like, oh, I totally get it. It's awesome. And I'm gonna put it in seven stores.

Wow.

Yeah.

Just like that.

Just like that. It was so unbelievable. I was so nervous. And then, of course, I had to call Sam. I'm like, in the rental car on the way back to the airport, I called the owner of the manufacturer. I'm like, sam. Sam, it's Sarah. I need more. I just landed Neiman Marcus. And he's like, what? He was in shock. He goes, sarah, I thought you were gonna give away his birthday presents for, like, years. And I said, no, Neiman Marcus just bought it anymore. And he patched me through to Ted. He goes, okay, you need to talk to Ted.

Okay.

So Ted comes back in. He's on the phone, and I go, ted, I need more. And he goes. I go, I just landed Neiman Marcus. He goes, well, that's great, but what you can do about the crotches?

The crotches?

Yeah, exactly. That's what I said. I go, what? Don't they come with crotches? We've been making them with crotches. He goes, well, yeah, but we only got one crotch machine. It's being used by somebody else.

No way.

Yeah.

So what do you do then?

So I just landed Neiman Marcus, and I have no crotches.

Oh, my gosh.

I don't know where to go for a crotch, do you? I mean, where do you go? I actually looked in the Yellow Pages.

Crotch making machine.

Yeah, I just. I looked up crotch machine. I looked up crotch.

I don't know how you spell crotch.

Okay, listen, this is what I learned. I'm gonna teach you something. Okay, So I didn't know that.

What's Yellow Pages again?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

It's a big book. It's yellow. It's what we used to look. Hilarious. What's Instagram?

You just got on it.

Okay, I just joined it seven days ago. All right, so where was. Oh, crotch.

Crotch machine. Lift it up.

Yeah. So anyway, in the Yellow Pages, it's not under crotch. So I learned there's a fancy word for crotch named gusset.

Gusset?

Yes. What? Gusset.

Never heard that word.

So I started calling gusset companies. They were, like, FedExing me crotches from all over. My roommate would come home and be like, you got another crotch in the mail? And then I ended up finding a man by the name of Gene Bobo that worked for a crotch company just 20 minutes north of where I lived. In Atlanta, and he saved the day. And they made the crotches, and then I could deliver Neiman Marcus.

So you had the leggings, they made the crotches, and then you sewed them together. Is that how it works?

Yes. Yes. Apparently, yes.

Gotcha. Okay, so then you had another. How many did you print the first time?

3,000.

3,000.

3,000.

Pair of the first Spanx1.1 SKU, right?

Or yes. $20. One skew.

Three sizes or like four?

Four sizes, yeah.

And 3,000 of them.

Yes. And that's what Neiman's ordered. And then I sent them to this. They sent them to the seven stores. I had no packing and shipping department. So the semi trucks were pulling up to my apartment in Atlanta, and I was sh. Myself to Neiman's.

This is amazing.

And then I called every friend I had in those seven cities. Like people I hadn't talked to in 20 years.

Hey, go buy a few of these. Take your girlfriends there.

Hi, Christina, Remember me? I used to sit next to you all the time in grade school. Will you please go buy this product called Spanx? I literally called them and I said, and I'll mail you a check. So I paid all my friends and friends of friends to go buy the product.

That is brilliant, actually. To get some movies.

Yeah. I said, go in. I gave them a whole script. I'm like, go in and say, I've been looking for this all my life. I can't believe it's here. And create all this excitement. And then, of course, a week later, I talked to the Neiman's buyer, and she's like, sarah, we are blowing out. I'm like, you don't say, no way. Meanwhile, I was buying them all.

Yeah, brilliant.

You have to wow your own success. So then once I started running out of money, Oprah called and put it on as her favorite product of the year.

How long was that for? Until the time was in Neiman Marcus to Oprah calling.

Like a month.

It just happened.

Like a month or a month and a half.

How did she even hear about it in a month?

I sent it to her in a gift basket, and her Andre who dresses her put it in her dressing room. And she put them on and has basically worn them every day since.

Shut up.

I'm not kidding. It was so unbelievable. I had no money to advertise in the back of my apartment. I was selling fax machines like a month before that. But I have to say, I was working every night and on the weekends for two years quietly trying to get.

This man, building this thing.

Yeah, building it. I had no option. In my mind I was like, I am scripting a new life for myself.

And was this movie about you that came out a year ago?

Joy?

Yeah. Is that about you?

My dad called me, goes, Sarah, I just saw a movie. It's basically your life except for the dysfunctional family part.

Okay, sure. Yeah.

But I could really relate to her. I'm sure it was like a hustle and. Yeah. But when I got Neiman Marcus, I think a lot of people think that's when you have arrived. That's when I double timed. I mean I, I got on a plane and was gone for two years straight. And I went to every department store in the country that sold Spanx, every Neiman Sachs, Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's. And I would go before the store opened and do an all store rally and tell them what my product was, explain it to them, do a demo, give out free product, and then stand there in the department for eight hours a day and tell customers what it was. Because I didn't have any money, advertisements, I was selling it for them. But what I didn't realize I was doing was I was building a salesforce not on my payroll. Because all these people started to become so ambassadors. Ambassadors. And they were rooting for me and they loved the product. And so that was a really important part of the formula. And then I learned what my next products were going to be because I was standing right there with customers and.

Let'S say what they need, what the challenge is. I can't do this. But why?

They told me what they wanted.

Amazing.

Yeah.

What would you say is the difference between a wealthy or rich mindset versus a poor mindset? Is it a way of thinking? Is it a way of acting and being and doing? What's the difference between rich mindset and poor mindset?

I mean, in an ideal world it would be those that are wealthy, got wealthy because they did a tremendous job of helping others. You invented a cure for cancer. I mean, you say, well, we don't want anybody to be wealthy. Well, don't you want people to invent things and come up with ideas? Don't you want Thomas Edison to be successful who invented all these things that make our lives better? What we don't want is people to get wealthy by rigging the system, by trying to limit innovation, limit competition. All those things that we see going on in our system, which is what we call cronyism and protectionist, that's what we're against. All of it. Even if it makes us money. We want a system, as I said, a system of equal rights and mutual benefit where people succeed by assisting each other. And so ideally that's the difference. But that potential is in everybody. So for many people today, it's because they were throwaway people. No one believed in them. With this top down, okay, we're going to tell you, we're going to come in and tell you how to live your life and we'll give you money and you'll be all right, so your poverty will be less painful. Where's our job? If you empower people, everybody can get out of poverty because everybody can contribute. So how do we find a way to help people contribute? And we've done this. My wife and I started an organization here in Wichita called youth entrepreneurs 30 years ago. It was in one, one school here in Wichita that was in a poor area. I mean, and these kids, well, I'll tell you a story of one named April. This was after we had been doing just a few years and well, let me tell you this, the program here is what we call three dimensional education. That is, it's hands on. It isn't just classroom, it's doing. And it starts with helping them find their gift, turning it into value skills, and then use it to succeed by contributing. And they start, we help them start their own small business. And then the ones that have the best business plan, then we give them some seed capital, not a lot, maybe $1,000 or even a few hundred so they can start and they start doing it. And so then the top performers speak at graduation. And this girl April, I'll never forget her talk, she said, I grew up in a terrible area. My mother was an addict, my brother had been shot, my sister was in prison, and I thought it was hopeless. So I was failing everything in high school. And she said, and then I heard about this class where I could get some money. She said, well, I'd like to get some money. And she said, I got in there and I found, wow, I've got to have a winning business plan and a successful business. Wow. So I've got to learn to read and write and present, so I better start doing that. And then if I have a business, I got to do math to know what's working and what's not. And then if I want customers and employees, I've got to learn to treat them with respect. So she said, it changed my whole life. And I went from failing everything to getting straight A's. And then she got a scholarship to college. And I've kind of lost track of her. But she had a successful business of her own, so we see that story. I could tell you dozens of stories like that. So that's the difference. These people who grow up in these areas where they have bad educational system, a bad criminal justice system, all other problems, people in the community hurting each other, drive by shootings and stuff, so everybody's scared, so they join gangs out of self defense. I mean, we've got to help them. We have to have and we do. We have social entrepreneurs working this that are transforming lives.

As a former athlete, I'm a big fan of visualization, of seeing the results I want to create on the football field, on the basketball court in the future. But I've always been a big fan of visualization. Every morning thinking about what. What do I want to create for the day? How do I want to show up when something happens, how do I want to respond and react? And for me, I find that visualization has been really powerful for my life. Is this something that you do in business relationship or deal making? When you're about to negotiate a deal, do you visualize the outcome? How is that in your life? If it's.

Yeah, but I don't. Not with. I mean in football it'd be the image or like a chess player visualize, okay, the moves, 10 down. What if it does this? So that's a different. I don't have that, but I have one for. Okay, what are the principles involved here? What are the concepts? And okay, what do we need to do to apply those concepts? What apply these principles. Because we find when we violate these basic principles of human progress, we fail. We don't think we're doing it because we're going through the motions and we're using the right words and all stuff, but we're not really doing it. And so that's. We need constantly have these checks and why we need this challenge, continual challenge culture from everybody. And so like if you're a supervisor here and your people aren't challenging you, we go help you now you're not getting their knowledge. So you cannot succeed if you're only using your knowledge. Those people out there doing the work see waste and see better ways that I will never see and even you as their immediate supervisor won't see. I mean, the thing to visualize is how do we better empower our people so they come up with answers rather than me? And so those are the things I think about.

When you were in your late 20s and 30s, did you ever Dream or imagine that this is where your life would be now and this is where your business and visions and nonprofits would be at. Was that ever a dream or were you just like, make some money and have a good family?

And that's why I say this philosophy. These concepts have enabled me to achieve more than I ever dreamed and totally transformed my life. And we raised our children with this philosophy, which I talk about in the book. I mean, this is so powerful. And then to have the luxury of seeing what it's done for so many other people's lives is just. I mean, as you tell, I'm pumped up about it.

Yeah.

How do you talked about your kids? I know you have a great relationship with them. How do you not? For all the parents listening and watching who have generated some success or some financial abundance in their life, how do you not screw up your kids when you have wealth? How do you keep them humble and grounded and hardworking and committed to growth and self actualization when they essentially have everything at their fingertips if they wanted it?

Well, I mean, I learned that lesson from my father. He exemplified integrity, humility, treating others respect, hard work, lifelong learner. Like, he would say things like, son, learn everything you can. You never know when it'll come in handy. And on every one of these issues he would talk about and he would do it. I mean, he worked all the time, just like I do. And he, boy, when we didn't treat somebody with respect or like we were waiting in line for a movie together and we'd say, okay, it's kind of crooked here, maybe we move up. Well, he would come and grab us. You go back to the end of the line. I mean, he was a bear. And you, if you bragged about anything, boy, you would get smacked down. And if you talk bad about any person, oh, man, I got the belt a few times.

So he was pretty disciplined.

So we, I mean, we weren't as tough on our kids, but we talked about this every day. For example, the school had the kind of the five valleys. Love, courage, faith, honor and loyalty. So every night at dinner, I would have each one. You could pick any one of these five and then you would, you need to tell me how you exemplified that with a specific example. And at first they were frustrated cry, this is starting in the first grade. And so that was a little intimidating. But after they got into it, it's just like with our employees, okay, you go help others succeed. You go create value for others. And obviously our best customers are those who reciprocate and who reward us for it. So that changed them. And then every Sunday evening I would take them in my library and play a tape for like 10 minutes, whether it's Maslow, Aristotle, across all these disciplines that I had learned. I had tapes on them and play it for about 10 minutes. And I knew that was their attention span max. And so then we'd just have a discussion. And my daughter picked up on it. I mean, she was eager, she was doing. My son wasn't. He was more like me.

He was, let me go play dad.

Yeah, yeah. I got important things to do. But then he's gotten it and he. And now because of this and this business of finding your gift and then developing and using it to help a boy, they are both doing that. Like, my son has started a business here called Koch Disruptive Technologies and he's now has investments in 10 companies. And we do that through the philosophy of mutual benefit because there's all this money rushing in for hot technologies. But we're a preferred partner because we say we have all these businesses and some of them be a good pilot area where you can apply it. And then our people will work with you to show you how make it work better because they'll be the ones applying it. And that's what we call Koch Labs. So our whole, all our businesses, we look at laboratories, Koch Labs. And then in Stand Together, he's built these relationships with all these technology entrepreneurs. And so now they're working with us on Stand Together because they've made money and they want to have meaning in their lives so we can help them find what they're passionate about and where they can make the biggest contribution. So he's done that way beyond what I could at his age. And then our daughter, well, she was frustrated for a long time like I was, couldn't find her way. Now she started an organization called Unlikely Collaborators. And they get together and she finds people who, who are frustrated about something, have a hang up, maybe they're bitter. So they go through these sessions. Well, she starts it with telling about all her problems and her failures. And of course then that opens them up and they talk about it. And she's totally dedicated to helping people and she's working with us. She's helping show us what she's learned on, on helping people in ways that we haven't used.

I'm curious about your non negotiables. On a daily basis, do you have a list or things that are non negotiable that you do? Maybe it's you get up At a certain time or you always take a walk or you eat a certain way. Is there anything like that you do? Or you always give your wife a hug and a kiss? Is there something you always do? Non negotiable.

Yeah. I work my mind and body every day. Every day I'm going to learn something that will help me contribute. I'm going to find a way to contribute and I'm going to work out because I've got to stay in shape to do all the things I'm doing.

Yeah.

So those are my primaries and that's what keeps me alive.

What do you feel is missing in your life?

The ability to move our society better in a direction of equal rights and mutual benefit, where people assist each other. Because it's gotten so divided and these ad hominem attacks and no one talking about, as we said about, okay, let's find ways to work together to empower people, help people rise, particularly those who are starting to nothing rather than like an occupational licensure. Okay, will all the business people in the community get together? We're going to make these rules so tough that these people starting out can't compete with us. I mean, that's monstrous. So that's one of our key issues. We got to get rid of these regulations like that, these protectionist, croniest regulations that keep people back and slow down innovation, undermine competition, undermine opportunity.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, it's hard to overcome all that and hard to make it all happen in a powerful way.

Yeah. So that's my biggest frustration. I'd like to wave a wand and bring it on.

Figure that out.

I'm not a utopian. I mean, we'll never be perfect if we move 10% in that direction, like reading history. This would make a massive change. Just 10% improvement in those principles of human progress.

Yeah. And I'm curious, what do you think is the biggest fear you've had to overcome in the last 40 years and what is the greatest fear you still face today?

Well, my fear is always that tomorrow I won't be able to contribute. I lose my. Which, I mean, as you get older, you lose some of your capacities. And then I'll lose it and I won't be able to contribute because then you might as well just throw me in the ditch and cover me up.

How do you manage that fear?

Well, the way I manage it is every day contribute. And if I contribute and I can still offer something to help and I'm still making the difference, then, okay, I'm good to go now. I got to now I got to work on how I do that tomorrow and maybe next year, God willing.

So I started my business in 1975 investing. And it's, you know, it's easy to be wrong in investing. That's part of the game. But in 1980, 81, I calculated that American banks had lent a lot more money to countries than those countries were going to be able to pay back and that they would therefore have a big debt default and that would cause an economic crisis. It got a lot of attention because it was a controversial view. And then in Mexico defaulted in August 1982. So that prediction sort of wow, came right. And some countries did. And I got a lot more attention because of that was right. And I thought we were going to go into an economic spiral, a depression, a big debt crisis. And I couldn't have been more wrong. And that was the exact bottom in the stock market.

Yeah.

And I lost money. I lost money for myself, I lost money for my clients. I had to let everybody in my company go. And I had to. I was so broke, I had to borrow $4,000 from my dad.

Wow.

Some of my family bills. So, I mean, I was, it, it was a lot of pain.

This was 82.

Yeah.

So you're broke then? 82 broke.

Totally. No money. No money.

Wow.

And that was one of the best things that ever happened to me. It was very painful, but it was one of the best things because it gave me the fear of being wrong without me losing my audacity. In other words, it gave me an open mindedness. It made me start to think how do I deal with what I don't know. So it made me find the smartest people I could find who disagreed with me to start to understand their thinking. It made me think about how I could maintain that upside. Risk goes with return. So I didn't want to have an ordinary life. So I still wanted the big upside return. But how could I do that without less risk? That's right. So that was a problem. That was part of my reflection. And that reflection led me to understand how I could diversify better, how I could stress test my thinking better and so on. Then I brought in the smartest people I could find who were independent thinkers who would disagree with me. And I did that. And that was the exact bottom financially and so on in my life from that point up to. And not long ago, Fortune described Bridgewater as the fifth most important private company in the country in the US and so it was that pain and reflecting well on that pain that gave me a greater ability to deal with what I don't know. And I learned. This is an important thing to learn that I learned that whatever success I had came more from my knowing how to deal with my not knowing than from anything I knew. In other words, what you know in your head is only a small percentage of what the important things and the right things to know is. And so to be able to go outside of one's head and to take in the best of the best of the best wherever it comes, and then use that to make decisions. And all of that came from that painful, very painful mistake.

Where do you think you'd be today if, in 82, you didn't go broke and have that massive pain?

I'm sure I'd have a very ordinary, I don't know, life. I don't know. Because I wouldn't have known how to have great upside while having acceptable risks.

Right.

In other words, at the time I reflected it, I felt it was like the following. I'm on one side of a jungle, and I'm on this one side of a jungle. And you could go in order to imagine you could have great success if you can cross the jungle alive to get to the other side. But in the jungle are all sorts of terrible things that could kill you and so on. And you have a choice. You can have this. You can have this ordinary life, or you can try to cross the jungle. Now, each one of us would approach that differently. For me, I had to have the greatest life I could have, and I have a little bit of a taste of adventure. So how would you cross that jungle? And what I learned was that the best way to cross that jungle would be with a team of people, people who I cared about, they cared about with me, who could see things that I couldn't see, and I could see things that they couldn't see. And that way you could be effective together. And so that's what I did. That's how it worked. And what I also learned through that thing is like, I don't want to get out of the jungle. I don't want to get to the other side, because the actual act of being in it with them and to do those things is itself rewarding. So I'm confident that I wouldn't have learned that if I didn't have that kind of experience.

So you're still in the jungle today?

Yeah, I'm in my jungle. But my jungle, all everyone's jungle, is a life arc. There's a life arc, right? You have to recognize the life arc, you know, zero to, I don't know, 80, 85 or something. Is the life arc, something like that? I'm 71. I know where I am on that journey. Okay. It's important to know, where are you on your journey? And then when you start to think about that, like, where will I be in 10 years? I'm going to be a different person in 10 years. Okay, where will the people I love be? Think about yourself. Where will you be in 10 years? And where will the people you love be? It could be your kids. It could be your parents. Where will they be and what will their experiences and the journey that they're going through and you're going through. And this script in the Journey, by the way, is pretty well known, right? Like, I think I'll give you example. I think it comes kind of in three phases. The first phase is when you're dependent on others and, you know, you're learning. Okay? Then what happens is you get out of school and you become independent and you go to work, and then it's entirely different. You're in the second phase of your life when others are dependent on you and you're working and you're trying to be successful. But there are the arcs. And you could see markers along those lines. You know, do you get married? When do you have a kid? Like, I realized, like, when my kids have kids, I'm now in my third phase, okay? So you see these things, you know, and so you have to see that. So what I want at this phase of my life at 71, I'm in transition from my second phase in which I've worked and I've won and I, you know, I played, you know, it's like, had my battles and it was great and so on. And now I'm in a mission to pass along the things that were valuable to me. I want to pass them along to others, and then I'm going to go quiet, and then I'm in that other phase, you know, but you learn things. And so this is kind of a mentor pass it along phase.

How do you stay confident in transition from kind of one identity to a new identity that's something new, that's something unknown, Whether it be in your personal transition life or in the financial world where things are unknown, things are transitioning, or it might seem like it. How do you personally stay confident in the transition?

First of all, you're really talking about comfort with ambiguity.

Yeah.

Okay. And the way that I feel it is life is like an adventure. I Mean, if you knew everything, it wouldn't be nearly as good. Right. So the ambiguity is part of it. It's part of the game. It's just the way it is. And then, so to then experience that and to know how to deal with ambiguity, because the same rules apply, you know, feel it, feel it. What's it like? How does it feel? Where are the pulls to. How do you learn? How do you learn how to approach it? What's it like? Speak to others who have been in there in that spot before, you know, taste it and so on. Our preferences change, you know, as you're going through all those things, so you feel it out, you learn about it, you go to the things that you feel the pull toward.

I'm curious, you have feelings you've been talking about for a few moments, but I know you're a very thoughtful human being. You create algorithms for your entire work, your team, everything is based on algorithms, kind of thoughts and ideas. But I'm hearing you say you're a deep feeler as well. Would you say you're more led by thoughts or your feelings?

I think it's the alignment of them. Okay, here's the facts pertaining them. There is a subliminal mind that we have and there's a conscious mind. Freud discovered that there's a subliminal mind. So we have. And in that subliminal mind, we just don't see it because you don't, because it's not conscious. But it has a big effect. And so feelings and those things are coming through that subliminal mind and it really has a big control. And then there's a conscious logical mind. So they. For everybody. And so they're in your mind. They're like everybody's mind. There are these kind of two minds that are working now. I find that when I align them. Meditation has had a big effect on me. I've been meditating since 1969.

Wow.

So for a long time. Because what that does, literally, it's an exercise where you repeat a mantra, the sound, and then you lose sort of a consciousness and you go into the subconscious mind. But in any case, to reconcile feelings with thoughts, to recognize feelings with logic and align them, like each has to double check for me, like if my feelings. Yes, I'm a big feeling person. The most important things in life for me are what? Inspiration, love, you know, what is it about? I mean, what are you doing it for? But at the same time, to be able to get there, logic and be able to express oneself. And you know, in Algorithms or so is a good thing. So when they're aligned, it's kind of a double check and it works at both levels. So I think that's most important.

When you doubt a decision or maybe just a moment in your life, personal or business related, doesn't matter. When you're in doubt of something, what is your personal mantra to get you back to a kind of a centered aligned place where you can make a better decisions?

Well, on the doubts, you know, the question is always like, how big of a deal is it and what is this type of bet and so on and you know, little doubts. No, okay, that's no big thing. You know, life and death decisions, those kinds of things, they're big, you know, those are the big questions. And what I realize on those is doubting is part of that process. You can only be sure a certain amount. How do you get to the best triangulation? In other words, take in from the smartest people and your own thoughts and so on so that you're making that understand how reality works and then try to make sure that none of your decisions are the ones that knock you out of the game. In other words, like, I've got an expression for people who work for me. You can scratch the car, but you can't total the car. So realize, okay, you don't win at all. You make your best bets but don't have the one. So you have to eliminate the killer ones because you have enough killer ones and odds are one of them is going to get you. So I approach it basically that way. Try to make the diversification, try not to have any killer, eliminate all of those that are unacceptable, and then go for the upside and doubt. But, but I'm used to doubt. I doubt there's everything. Every time you put on a position in the markets, for example, I am never sure if it would be easy if I knew. So there's a lot of doubt. So doubt is part of it. But don't put yourself in a position that you can have unacceptable. Where you go, bro, hanged around a little bit is okay, right?

So how do you have confidence when you're doubting yourself and you're like, I think this is going to do well based on all the math and historical evidence and feelings. How do you have confidence when you place that bet?

I have enough bets that I make the bet so that no one of them, I won't allow anyone that'll kill me and then I raise and I'll typically only want to make bets that I feel good about. And I will have them stress tested my bets by having other people stress test it. So yeah, just imagine, I don't know, you're playing a chess game. Okay, now, okay, maybe you're a chess master, but okay, what are you going to do? You have to still make a move. So, okay, what's the best thing to do now? Imagine you could ask the best chess masters in the world what you do and think about the pros and cons and make your decision and just not make it that also one's going to knock out of the game.

So it's that you mentioned a team going through the jungle with you and supporting you, whether it be mentors or hiring. How have you learned to bring together this great team that you've assembled where people are going to disagree with you? It sounds like people are going to have different thoughts and be free to disagree with you on certain things. How do you know when the disagreement becomes toxic? When you can look at it from a point of view of like, okay, I need this disagreeing thought, but when does it become toxic where you actually need to let go of that person in your life or on your team?

Well, what's so interesting to me, I think is that immediately your question about the disagreement is toxic. That's the first thing that people go to. Somehow they think disagreement is toxic. And supposedly it's because the part of our brain which is the amygdala, which is this fight or flight, takes disagreement as the equivalent of a fight. And so anyway gets triggered that way. Now instead imagine it's a curiosity. In other words, I view it as a curiosity. I mean, I could tell if somebody's wanting to disagree with me or I'm disagreeing with them because I want to hurt them. I mean, that's a different thing. If you want to hurt them, okay, then that's a different thing. But I mean, like disagreement should be a comfortable thing that prompts curiosity and so on and mutual respect. Like, how could I ever get along with you if I couldn't disagree with you? I like how many times, you know, I mean, you're going to disagree like you might one thing, another, then that's the beginning of trying to find out what's correct in the past. So a good partner is going to disagree with you and you have to get past it. So the fact that you're asking that question the way it is, which is a normal question that everybody would ask, so reflects the fact that there's a hesitancy for disagreement. Like it's a bad Thing and it's a fight and it's nastiness rather than just a disagreement that needs to be figured out.

And how have you personally learned how to disassociate the maybe personal attack against your ideas or your position on a stance of whatever between someone personally attacking you and just oh, this is a curious idea that they have. Let me ask them more about it. How have you learned how to do that and what advice would you have for others?

Well, first of all, I learned by it because, you know, like it works. I mean, you know, like I'm afraid of the opposite. And how can I have. It helps my decision making, it helps our relationships. What are they going to do? Bottle it up And I'm going to bottle it up. Is that smart? I mean, you know that that sounds stupid to me. You don't even know what's true. You can't figure it out. So everybody's confused because nobody knows what each other's really thinking. And then also, like, you know, you won't get to the right answer. And I mean that just is too stupid a path for me, for me to do it. And it's too risky a pass. And it's so much rewarding, so much more rewarding to do the other.

The three things that every wannabe entrepreneur should think about before they start their own business.

Be ready for rejection. Make sure your service, your product is the best they is. So people wanna reorder and be prepared to do all the things unsuccessful people don't want to do.

What?

Work as many hours as you have to, as many doors as you're approached to. And they say no, as many people are no. And then once you have a product, once you have a product, how do you make it better all the time? And Paul Mitchell, all year long we have many people working on the next generation of products or how to make our existing products better. We never let that go. Paul Mitchell's been in business 40 years and I think with the exception of one, maybe two years, we've grown every year. Those other years, those other couple years, something went on. Like what was going on right here with this pandemic in our country and throughout the world where maybe when went down, but only a little bit, little teeny bit. So we've been on strict high growth for 40 years. But we also look at what can we do to help salons, how can we help beauty salons? And now Paul Mitchell schools, How can we help hairdressers become more successful? We started Paul Mitchell Schools 20 years ago where A hairdresser not just got a license, but they learned in cosmetology school, the Paul Mitchell schools. How to be a better person, how to love yourself, how to love others, how to get along with people.

Personal growth.

Oh, personal growth. Oh, yeah, it's taught. And how to be a successful hairdresser dresser in her Paul Mitchell schools, which people come out loving one another. It's fabulous of people to come out of our schools. And I think we have about 16, 15, 16,000 students now graduating. We're coast to coast. We have over 100 schools coast to coast. And people just shine. But we take a different attitude, one of love how to love yourself and love this one that's around you.

Not many businesses can say they've been growing year after year for 40 years, except for a couple, maybe small, smaller years. What do you think has been the reason that you've been able to do that and you haven't made mistakes where it's gone down in a big way or gone bankrupt? Why have you been able to sustain that for 40 years?

And we make boo boos along the way, but we correct them. We learn. I think the main thing is people, because we love our people. Our people love who they're doing business with, who they're doing business for, and who their business around. Salons know that these guys kept their word. Oh my God. In 1980 when they started up to present day, they say, we're never going to desert you. This will always stay in the professional beauty industry. So no matter where Paul Mitchell is sold, somehow goes back to the salon. So they receive something, whether it's in the salon or else. It's always in this industry. No other one. Yeah, yeah, everyone says that. Well, what happened since that time? A lot of the big businesses at that time went out of business. A lot of my competitors, big, good competitors, sold to big conglomerates, right? And they did whatever they did. But that's their world, not my world. We kept on saying, we're only staying the professional beauty industry. And people want to glue on that. How committed is this people? In 2004, a hairdresser raised her hand at one of the lectures I was giving at a hair show and said, Mr. J.P. you're the only one that hasn't sold out. All your competitors sold another company. You're still here and you say you'll always support this industry. What if you die again, we're going for longevity, right? I said, good point. So I had my attorneys and my accountants search everywhere in the United States. Where could I park my controlling interests. I own more than 50% of Paul Mitchell. Where could I park it? So even if something happens to me, it stays in professional beauty industry. They found a 360 year US trust I could put it in. So even if something happened to me, it stays intact. Now I could have 50 beneficiaries, their percentage goes to it, but it stays intact in the professional beauty industry. And you know, like Michael Lean, my daughter's a genius. Okay, Mikey, you oversee it for now. And along the way we find other people overseeing. Alexis, John Anthony, you find people that are responsible. Worst thing you do is turn over to your business, to your family. And there's people in your family not responsible. Well, you're gonna go downhill, okay. If there's turning it over, they are in there helping people out. Okay? Not saying I'm in full control, like an ego thing at all. So I set it up or was set up. No matter what happens, it stays in professional beauty industry. My family can help pick certain people out. Okay. And direct it, but it's got to stay professional. And there was a law you had to put in there where you got to have something, if it goes down right, then they can't sell. Well, the down in there, our worst year is so little. I mean that's almost like a startup year for us. It's never going to hit that. Right. So it made it all legal now and in the years to come. And we have about 340 some odd years left on it. So when I'm long gone and others are long, long gone and the profession, they had a guy that made a promise that had nothing, along with my partner, Paul Mitchell at the time. Right. We made a promise as industry and we kept our promise that even though we're gone, it's going to stay in the professional media industry.

That's cool.

That's commitment, that's great longevity.

How many people do that?

Nope, no one did it. I think we're the only in the industry that I know right now that's ever done something like that. Because why, what if we sold out and made all this money? That's what the others did. Yeah.

I read somewhere, I don't know if this stat is correct or not, but I read that you're the third richest shark that's been on Shark Tank with your net worth. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, but you've got billions in net worth. And, and I'm curious your point of view, what's the difference between someone who's worth a million dollars and someone who's worth a billion dollars. What's the mindset that separates a millionaire and a billionaire?

I would say the mindset I could give you, my case was how to keep what I have and what I give away. I'm part of the giving pledge. Okay. Goes to a good result because we're all of my companies give. We give personally. And I have a foundation, JP's Peace, Love and Happiness foundation foundation helps also. It's what do those dollars do that do the greatest good for the greatest numbers that help them reach the next step? Where can we put money not to give away, but invest money not ever wanting in return as a charity that will have somebody reach the next stage? The next stage. The next stage. I'm a firm believer that on this planet we come with absolutely nothing. Okay. And whatever we get, we're blessed with. It's like paying a rent a little bit for our time on earth and if we're lucky enough to have, have that abundance, share it with others. So the big thing is, in my case, where does it go? It has nothing to do with do I have power, do I have this, do I have that, where can I go with it? And of course, you can pay your bills on time or pay them off on time. Right. But after you get into the millions, where can I secure my family for the future? But after I secure my family, when I do these other investments, how can I affect hundreds of thousands of people, hopefully millions in my life so they have a good life long after I'm here and a good life while I'm here? The animals, Sea shepherd included, the animals, world wildlife, I mean the animals as well as the humans. Anything with a soul in it. The trees that have living souls in them. You know, what can I do to keep this whole thing going on if I was lucky enough to enjoy it at this time?

So would you say for you personally it's more of a giving mindset that separates the millionaire and the billionaire?

I would say you got to have it in there, the giving mindset. And not just give me, give me, give me greed, greed, greed, greed, greed. How could I at one time realize I have what I have and let's just make sure it's shared with others and businesses I have. We have bonuses. We have. In fact, at Paul Mitchell, first thing I did was remembering how I didn't have free lunch is when we could afford to give everybody free lunch. We still do.

Wow.

We still give them free lunch because I can remember when I had $1. And you couldn't get a lot for a dollar.

I'm sure you've got a lot of wealthy friends. Is that a similar theme that you see with your. Your billionaire friends, of they now think, how can I contribute, make impact, give back? Or is this something just you and a few people do that?

You know, mostly it's with my friends that are part of the Giving Pledge, and some that aren't part of the Giving Pledge are very, very big givers, you know, but the Giving Pledge is, I think there's about 170, 180 of us that are US citizens. Warren Buffett is one of them. And, you know, Gates, I go on and on. It's good people that say, we've done so well. We appreciate this goodness that while we're alive or after we die or a combination of the two, we're going to give half our wealth to making the world a better place to live.

Why did you decide to be a part of that pledge? Why was that important for you?

We were invited to join Warren and Bill for a very small dinner in Dallas, Texas. We live in Austin. We moved to Dallas. And first time I met the two of them, very gracious people. They talked about not what they should do with their money, but here's the Giving Pledge, here's what we're doing, and we'd like to invite you to join us if you want to. What is the advantage? Like, minds are all together. We never solicit business off one another. We don't do that. We have our seminars that the Gates foundation puts on. And regardless of whether you agree with what they do with their money or not, that's up to an individual. But they put on a seminar, and during those couple of days, we see the various ways people have contributed, like, okay, in education, how do we do it better? What are the pitfalls? What should we look for in human welfare? In water? What are the different things? So we learn from one another how to really get the most out of what we're giving and the most joy out of it. And of course, we have a camaraderie. We get together and appreciate one another.

I love this idea of this collective mind. I call it a mastermind. In my industry, it's where other great minds get together in our space and we try to collaborate and share ideas. How important is that for an individual who is working at a job to have their own personal advisory board or mastermind group of other smart people, or for entrepreneurs to have a mastermind of people in the industry? They connect with. How powerful is that for people?

If you can, it's great. I was asked once a question when I was one of the two finalists for Inc. Magazine's Entrepreneur of the Year, right? And I remember in the final interview with everyone in the audience, they said, well, how about consultants? What do you feel about consultants? And this, the company was just starting, but doing pretty good. Yeah, we're five years, six years in business. And my answer was the dumbest one in the world. We don't need consultants. We're doing it on our own. We'll probably do it a different way anyways. Worst answer I could ever give. And I thought about it afterwards. Are you kidding? I just never had anybody consult with me other than my friend John McCormick who gave me some advice. That was it. Are you kidding? I would have loved to have a consultant or someone around me that really knew what. What was going on. So if in your business you can find people like that, even one or two that have done it before, or even a segment, it could be in a different industry. God, go to them for advice. It's priceless. They know even if they failed at that business, they know some of the shortfalls.

What would you say are the three most important tools that you've learned? Whether at 27, 40, 85. What were those tools? Three tools you wish you would have known sooner that supported your growth at the highest level for me to feel.

Good about myself, and that's true today at age 85, is how do I contribute? And the way I contribute is to use my gifts, focus in areas for which my capabilities can make the biggest contribution. Okay, so then how do I develop them? So I wish, I mean, I wasted 20 years there, if I developed a passion at age 10 or something, or age 18 rather than age 27, to find these conceptual tools that I could use. Because as soon as I'd learned one of these principles, the principles I saw through history really empowered people and move society toward one of equal rights and mutual benefit. I found that worked.

Wow.

These ideas work. So the first thing is that. And then you need to realize that, okay, you're good at this. That doesn't mean you're good at a bunch of other stuff. So don't start thinking you're just smarter than other people or anything. And I mean, this is another thing. I studied multiple intelligence theory, that we have these discrete. There are these discrete intelligence there, which, I mean, I don't agree quite the way it was written, but there was element of truth in it. And so if you realize that, then you say, okay, I'm good at certain things and I'm not good at others. And if I want to contribute, I can't be doing it all or I'll make a mess of it. So I've got to go partner with people. And whenever I found the right partners who were good at all the other things that needed to be done, then I wasn't, then I've succeeded. And when I haven't had good partners, I've tried to do myself, I fail. I mean, for me, but I mean a lot of people have much broader capabilities than I do, but mine are pretty darn good in this one area if I just stick to it to really contribute. You focus on creating value for others. You focus on bottom up empowerment. And so that's what we've done with our employees. For example, in our company, the first job of every supervisor at every level, including me, is to help your people self actualize. As a matter of fact, in our guiding principles, number eight is self actualization.

Yeah, I love that you have that too. It's great.

Yeah, so we're not kidding around about this stuff. And we find when we do that and with technology now, it's much easier to do it because it's easier to give them tools so they can be entrepreneurs, so they can be self starters. And now we're finding, I mean every meeting now, the first thing I want them to okay, what are the innovations? Where are they coming from? And they're coming from frontline people doing the work.

I mean, not from you, not from the leader.

No. Well, as a matter of fact, what I do, if I get an idea what we ought to do, okay, we ought to make this acquisition or we need this strategy or something, the first thing I do is say, okay, I got the concept and this is Popper's theory of the scientific methods. True science is coming up with a testable proposition and then not going around trying to find things that will support it, but go around and find things that will undermine it, show the flaws in it. And so that's what I get a group of people who together on all the different drivers of success with this venture, I have in mind to point out the flaws from their perspective. And we always come up with a better answer than I started with. And so this empowers everybody. And then every supervisor is supposed to help each employee find their gift. And then when they find their gift, then work with them to design a role around that. Rather than, okay, we got these roles, we're going to stick you in it. And so typically, somebody in a role, they're good at half of it and then they struggle with the other. You give them feedback and so on. That's like, if I worked for an opera company and I was a business manager, I might do pretty well. But then the tenor got sick and they made me sing tenor. They could train me, give me feedback till the end of time. I would fail and the opera company would fail. So that's what we've learned. And then give them the tools and the authorities to practice this and get turned on and make innovations.

Were you a baritone?

I'm a no tone. No tone.

You're a no singer. You leave that to your wife, huh?

Yeah, my. Yeah. And my daughter.

I'm curious, why emphasize self actualization so much with your culture in your businesses? And how else do we learn to self actualize if we're not looking for it? How do we encourage it for someone if they're not looking to grow, looking to discover their gifts, if they just kind of want to keep doing the thing they've done? How do we encourage and cultivate that?

No, that's a great question. And that goes right to the heart of it. What we all do, if we learn the way to do things and it isn't working well, we tend to double doubt. Well, we're going to do more of this thing that doesn't work. And the only way people are willing to take the risk and put in the effort to learn a new way is if you can convince them this is a better way. This will make your life better, give more meaning to your life, you'll be more successful. It's worth the effort. And so we recruit on basically two dimensions. The first is, are you contribution motivated or can we get you to be. If you're negatively motivated and you want to get ahead by maneuvering and showing the other employees are bad or you're better than they are, all of that or fudging the figures or stuff. We've had a boy. Boy, that is poison.

It's a cancer, right? It's a.

It's a boy. That's a good way to put it. It's an absolute cancer. So the first thing is, are they contribution motivated? And then the second, do they have a talent? Not credentials, not where they went to college or if they went to college, we couldn't care less. Do you have a talent that's going to enable us to do a better job of creating value for all our constituencies, starting with our customers, our employees, our Suppliers, our communities and society as a whole. And then to help us continually transform ourselves to do better and better at that.

That's a beautiful way of recruiting.

Oh yeah, no, we get people here and they get into this and you know, we talk about self actualization a lot with our employees and they say when they really get the bug and they start innovating and getting the authority to do more and experiment more, try new things.

Wow.

Now my job is fun, I'm loving it. Rather than drudgery. And technology is really helping with that. Now you can automate and so then they can figure out how to use the automation better and how to do new things. And we can stop doing that because we can do it. We can cut out two steps now. I mean, it's fabulous. Well, you can tell I get pumped up about this. And then this is the same approach we use in our philanthropic community. Stand Together once again, we don't say okay, we at Stand Together got all the answers. We go find social entrepreneurs who have lived through a problem or been close to a problem, whether that's addiction, in prison, in poverty, in a bad education system and a bad school. And they found a better way, a way to really empower the students rather than turn them off against this one size fits all schooling. Teach to test stuff to help empower them. And the same things across the board, all the key institutions. We're working to find these social entrepreneurs and then empower them to do even more and then to scale. Because as I said, I think earlier that what's changed societies in the past is where there are enough of these people who have transformed themselves and become social entrepreneurs. And when you get enough of them, showing there's a better way, showing that the person who was just a worker can have ideas and start a business and do amazing things. I mean, look at the Wright brothers. The government was supporting a big project to build airplanes and the Wright brothers, bicycle mechanics figured it out way before and way cheaper than this. Well, credentialed effort. This is the problem with this top down stuff. You okay, think, okay, we know who's smart and who's not and we're going to give them the authority to do it. And the rest of you just shut up and go do your work and we'll feed you some stuff. And we find you don't know in advance. Look at Einstein. He wasn't accepted at university. He became a patent clerk. You could go through example, through example, through history. And that's what's so fabulous. And this is why I'm so excited as I see this every time I see somebody becoming empowered and transforming their lives.

Okay.

This is validation of my whole life. Yeah. And I can't tell you the number of former employees who have either written me or come in to see me and say what I learned here. And not more than just learning it academic, but actually practicing and seeing that. Focusing on creating value for others rather than always. What's in it for me? Because if you help others, they're going to help you.

Absolutely.

If you don't help others, everybody wants you to fail. When you're helping them, they want you to win. So you develop this culture of mutual benefit and mutual assistance.

I love it. You're speaking my language. You're talking about the Wright brothers. I'm from a small town in Ohio, so you're speaking close to home to me. There's talking about personal growth, personal development within a workplace. What are the main keys to self actualization?

It's starting with believing in yourself.

How does someone believe in themselves when all they do is doubt all the time?

They find, okay, well, that's the way I was. So it took me 20 years. And that's why we wrote this book, to help it not take 20 years for people. So we need schools to or be oriented. We need businesses to be oriented. And the way they do it is they have some success. Wow. And they see other people.

Wow.

Who weren't doing well and they got in the right role and with the right supervisor who's helping empower them. And so it's bottom up empowerment. That's what social entrepreneurship is all about. Like Scott Strode, who was an addict for 10 years and he found by going to the gym and others there who had the problem and they helped each other. And he says, well, I'm going to set up an organization to do this. And it's called the Phoenix, I mean, which is rising. It's tremendous success rate. I think it's double the success rate of any other method that, that we're aware of for healing addiction. And it's this combination of community and mutual support. And they go on hikes, they do rock climbing together, they'll do boxing together, do gymnastics together. So the people can see they can do it. And then there are people there to help them. Not just talk about it, but do it. That's the key. And do it in a community. And then you have a support community who's really supporting you to go out and live, not just exist. Yeah.

So believing in yourself is the first thing. And really finding your gift and then finding success within your gift will help you believe in yourself more. What's another main key to self actualization?

Well, it's having mentors, having people, these social entrepreneurs who are dedicated to empowering you. It's like Chad Hauser. I don't know whether you've read about him. All these are in the book. He was very successful chef and restaurant owner and he came in touch with some of these kids in the juvie who were called throwaway kids. And he said, that's offensive to me. Nobody is throw away, he says, so I'm going to create a restaurant totally staffed by these kids after they get out of juvie and I'm going to show them that they can succeed. And then what will happen when people come there and they get great service, great food and a great atmosphere from these throwaway kids, Then it changes their mindset. And so you open people's minds and that's how societies change. We got to show a better way. And so we have that in area after area going on and we just need to scale it and celebrate it more. So more and more people see this because we find, as you can see, people who endorse this book, look, it isn't just one group. It's people across from all walks of life, all different persuasions.

Yeah, I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I think I read online that Forbes lists you as the 11th richest person in the world. I'm sure that goes up and down. How does.

I don't believe it. I don't believe it.

How does someone stay humble of being, having that much money and being on a list of whether it's 11 or 100 or whatever. How do you stay humble when you've accumulated so much wealth and built a company with 130,000 employees around the world? How do you do that?

Well, I'm like Martin Luther. Here I stand. I can do no other. To me, the first person you've got to please is yourself. And all this external stuff. Oh, you had all this money, you've accomplished all this. Well, big deal. What I'm interested in is what I'm going to accomplish tomorrow. Am I going to help somebody tomorrow? It's what Maslow said is that to self actualize there has to be synergy. A merger of the selfish and unselfish. That is okay. I'm going to dedicate my life to helping others improve theirs, but I'm going to focus people on where there's a spirit of mutual benefit. And it May just be my own self worth that's benefiting, but that's, I mean, that's all I need now. I don't need more money or anything I need, but I need money to better help people become empowered. So that's how I use it. Look, all the criticism I get, you think I'm doing all this stuff so I can get praise. Well, I found it doesn't get you praise. People are threatened by it or they're envious or whatever. All you get is more attacks. But we're also finding as people learn this works and if they do it, they feel better about themselves and they have a better life. It's what Victor Frankl said, ever more people have the means to live, but no meaning to live for. Or Bob Dylan said, those not busy being born are busy dying. So if you're just sitting around counting your money, I mean, what's that about? That's not a lie.

How do you handle all the criticism and attacks and judgments about decisions you make or are going to make? How do you personally internalize and not allow it consume your self worth?

I internalize Karl Popper's scientific method. And that is you, you want criticism now. You, you would hope it would all be constructive to help it. But I realize a lot of it is just try to shut me down, shut me up and go hide in a corner somewhere. That doesn't seem to work for them. But, but even then, even then, when they're attacking, okay, why are they attacking? And so I like it. Maybe we can find common ground, like with Van Jones. He led the demonstration against our first event in Palm Springs. I mean, he was out there physically leading it and he hated us. And so when we started working on criminal justice reform, we were looking for people across the spectrum that would work with. And he was interested in it. So we approached him and he says, yeah, I'll, I mean, like, like Frederick Dahlia and I, with anybody to do right, I'll even work with you. And so he became good partners with our general counsel who was leading our effort in there. And they were on TV together telling what a great partnership we had. And he said on that, he said, I used to think all the people on the other side of these issues were evil of issues that I was passionate about and everybody on my side was good. He said, I find good and evil people on both sides. There are good people on the other side. They just have a different perspective on.

How to help people.

So that doesn't make them evil. That means we should work Together, put our heads together. Because different ideas, as I say, I find all the time complementary capabilities. You share ideas and you come up with a better solution. That's how innovations are made. I mean, that's what Newton said. If I see further, it's because I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. He said, I didn't invent all this stuff. I found new ways to put it together.

I love this. You're in the flow. Before we continue this video, make sure to subscribe below and turn on the notification bell right now so you don't miss out on these great videos every single day. I've never borrowed money or raised money, but you talk about the importance of getting cash when you already making a lot of money. Why should someone like myself or a business owner get a line of credit, get cash out, even if they're already thriving and doing well and they've got cash in the bank. What's the importance of that?

Well, everybody does different things and you got to do with what you're comfortable with. And I've always been comfortable with borrowing money. I talk, but that's also my success. Because the way you look at every. Unless you're a tech baby again. The world was created because of leveraged finance. Okay. There's the reason that you had, you know, all the tech companies and the media companies and the great big casinos in Vegas, the things that cost billions of dollars.

You had to raise a lot of money.

You did it with leverage finance with my good friend in California, Michael Milken really came up with. But that's why there was such an explosiveness in the 80s because of leveraged finance. I've always been scared of debt, but I haven't been scared of debt. I never had a problem with using it. But I talk in my book is this is the problem that we all do is say you, you have a small business and you want to go out and borrow some money and you do a performer for the bank, a budget, you know, to keep it simple for people. People always give a budget that is the best case scenario and they start to drink their own Kool Aid and think that's what they're going to do. Well, one of the things that projections, I'm like, here's where we're going to.

Be in three years and five years.

Yeah. Or even next year. And what I've always done is I've done that for the bank. But even today in a deal that I bought last week, I want a worst case scenario. The world's coming apart okay. And all of a sudden, all your expensive accounts are gone and are people still going to eat steaks? And I run a budget and a performer based on that. So best case scenario, worst case scenario. Because you know what happens 80% of the time? The worst case scenario.

Really?

Yes. That's just life.

Right.

And that's a tool that I've always used, because what happens is they give that to the bank or to whoever, and all of a sudden you start drinking your own Kool Aid. Like that's easy to do. It's not easy to do. Being successful in business is not easy. But that's why I talk about just simple tools in here. When Harper Collins came to me, they didn't say, we want a life story. We see you on your show. We see you on these business talk shows. We read these articles. We want you to write about your tools, why you've never failed and you've made it through all these recessions. Rather, you're a carpet person or you're an entrepreneur. Why did you get to go like this? It never really went like this.

I want to go back to your family for a second. Is there anything that you do with your kids, like a ritual or a gratitude practice or something over a dinner table? Or is there anything you say to them at night? Maybe not anymore because they're more grown up, but when you're. When they were growing up, was there something you said to them every night or every morning, or was there a practice that you had as a father with your kids?

I never did. I've never been one to try to make my kids something that they aren't. And so you're going to play baseball, or you're going to take piano lessons, or you're going to. We've always kind of let them do whatever they wanted to do. But at the same time, you know, I've taught them it's nice to be important. It's more important to be nice. And I've taught them. Even today, I just said, y' all have learned. They've learned a lot, too. Where I'm very observant. They've learned a lot by watching other families that have money. And I've told them, you see what all these people do? They go, and the next generations become recluses and really don't want to be bothered because they don't want people asking them. And they. They've lost their power and their juice. Okay? Y' all can have this power and juice in this city, in this state and this country for the next 100 years. Don't give it up. Don't become a recluse just because, oh, you don't have to do something every day and stay relevant. So many rich families, you go look at all your great, wealthy, wealthy families and look at the generations below them that just kind of live in a cave, Live off the money that keeps coming in the cave, the trust or whatever, and they're not relevant anymore.

Why is it important to stay relevant?

I just think it's important to stay relevant. I think it's relevant to continue philanthropy and give back to your community. And there's nothing wrong with being a leader in your community. And just because I'm still on boards that I was on 10, 15 years ago and just, well, now that I'm worth a few billion dollars, I should change. Why should I change? My ego that, oh, well, you shouldn't be on the Better Business Bureau board. That's no big deal. That's when you were up and coming, you know, or. I've just never changed. I've just never changed.

You've evolved, you've grown, but you haven't changed 100%.

But I'll still be in this dining room. And if I see something I don't like, I don't have a problem with going over there and telling the busboy, hey, remember those people there? They deserve that table where their feet go just as clean as the table on top. You know, I don't. I've never changed. You know, I'm not going to embarrass them, but I don't have any problem in talking to people and training people today.

How long have you been married for?

30 years.

30 years. That was a true question, Bob. Quiz. 30 years. Do you think you'd be where you are today in business without being married to your wife for 30 years?

I think a wife is very important and very supportive. You know, you could easily be married to a wife that wanted to go out and spend money and you didn't put the money back in your business. And Paige always was very supportive of everything. I never once was not supportive.

Really.

Not one time.

Wow.

Do you think you'd be where you're at today without that marriage, without that relationship?

I don't know. I just know she was always very supportive.

Supportive.

That's great.

That's great.

Now, what is the thing that is missing in your life? Because it seems like you have everything. You've got the family, you've got the businesses, you've got yourself. Sports franchise.

Now you've Got.

I mean, honestly, nothing. Honestly nothing. You know, Honestly nothing. I have to. You know, I'm very fortunate. But I know that too, though. I mean, you always want more. You're always working on the next deal, you. But, but, but I cannot complain. I mean, but as we all know, there's a paddle for everybody's ass every day.

Yeah. And is there anything you're afraid of?

Fear nothing but worry about everything.

Yeah.

Fear nothing, though.

I love this. I've got a few questions left for you, and this has been really inspiring.

Is your show on still or not this year? I know, but the problem is, and you should understand this with production and everything is they. They want to shoot 12 shows because you bring the crews together. And the first year I shot six shows, and then we shot 12 shows, and then we shot, well, shows. And so they want to shoot 12 and I want to shoot six. I just can't give up four months and then another and then the fifth month going back and re editing and green screen. So it truly takes a lot of work. It is truly full time, basically, you know, four days a week for five months. And yeah, I love going to the basketball games. And all of a sudden I'm sitting here playing the Lakers or the Clippers at home this year, and I have to be on the other end of the United States, you know, to shoot a show. So, yeah, so I'll do six, but I'm not doing 12.

Yeah, I hear you. It's a great show, though. It was binge. It's a lot of fun. You do an amazing job of educating the viewer of how to run business.

It is simple, but that's the gift that God gave me. He didn't give me a lot of other talents, but he gave me knowing numbers.

I love it. I want you to. This is one of my final questions. I want you to imagine that it's your last day on earth, far off from the future. Okay? It could be a hundred years, it could be 200, it could be whatever. But you get to choose the day that you get to die, right? You get to choose the day that you move on. And imagine that you've accomplished everything you want. Every dream you have now or later, you've accomplished it.

You own the league.

You own every league. Whatever it is you want to do in every restaurant, you've created it. You see your family grow and flourish. You see everything you want. But for whatever reason, you can't leave any of the messages you put out into the world behind. You have to take all your messages and all your work with you. So there's nothing left for people to see that you've created in the world. Just hypothetical. But imagine you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things that are your truth that you know to be true for you. That would be lessons that you would want to leave behind. And this is all people would have is access to your information. Lessons that you would share with the world. What would you say are three truths that you have?

Always try to do the right thing.

Always.

Never give up. You know, don't you find out what take out the never give up. Always do the right thing. Find out what you're good at. And I don't care if you're an interviewer or the greatest chef or whatever. Find out what you truly enjoy doing and do it. It's not always about just making money. But take that talent that he gave you because I believe everybody has a talent, that they're better at that than the majority of the other people. Okay. And then probably.

Third.

Just remember, you can always separate yourself from everybody else if you want to.

If you're looking for more greatness in your life, make sure to check out this video right here. And also check out our free page PDF the three secrets to unlock the power of your mind. To help you change your life. Download it right here.