Parenting Expert: The Real Reason Kids Struggle (Say This To Help Them) | Dr. Shefali

Children's mental health crisis has never been such an abysmal tragedy. Suicidality, loneliness, anxiety, body dysmorphia.

How can parents protect their kids from everything coming at them?

A parent needs to be in supreme emotional regulation. If the parent is on TikTok and the parent is sabotaged and hijacked by comparison and anxiety and perfectionism, how will they show up for this child.

Oprah has called her revolutionary and the best child expert she has ever interviewed and the pioneer of the conscious parenting movement. Please welcome Dr. Shefali.

I empower parents to just be very comfortable with the fact that they are going to screw up their children. Like, don't try to avoid that. If you just accept it is going to be a shit show, now let me lean in and try to show up the best I can.

What is the number one skill for conscious parenting?

The skill above all skills is the ability to—

I'm excited about this because you have two new books out. One is called Raising Conscious Daughters, which is perfect for me because I have twin daughters, 6 months old, and the other one is called Raising Conscious Sons. So for any parents listening or watching, these are the two books that they need to get to understand how to not mess up their children.

Yes.

And how to hopefully be better than and their parents. Now, a lot of people watching or listening would probably resonate with— they didn't have the best childhoods. Some people said they had a great childhood and their parents were amazing, and that's great. But those that think they had bad childhoods or they had emotionally immature parents have this belief that they're going to raise their kids differently. But sometimes that can be a trap to think, my parents didn't do it the right way, they messed me up. I'm not gonna do that to my kids. Why is that belief a trap in your mind?

Because you can't think your way into good parenting. You have to heal your way into good parenting. And healing happens in relationship. So you can think, you know, like every non-parent, you know, seeing a parent on the plane with their toddler who's like throwing all the stuff all over the aisle. And that non-parent, like you and I did before we became parents, we're like, oh, I'll never be like that. Yeah, yeah. Right? I will know how to connect to my child. I'll know how to regulate. I won't lose my shit. But you can't think conscious parenting. It is a practice. It is a cultivation. It is a healing. And it is a growing into. And you have to do the work. But here's the beautiful thing about what I teach in conscious parenting is that your children come to raise you and they come to awaken you. If you're willing to look into the mirror of this most intense relationship. And the reason I call it more intense of a mirror than the partner is because you can't return them. You can't divorce them.

Oh, man.

There's no expiration date. There's no exit ramp. My daughter's 23. I'm still in it. Every single day, I have to show up. So that locked system where you have no fantasy of—

There's no exit.

There's no exit.

I mean, if you exit, you're really creating trauma, massive trauma.

Yes, you individuate. You have healthy separation, age-appropriate, but you can't just take the exit ramp because this has become intolerable. You have to sit there and work through it. And the second reason why children are so profoundly our mirrors is because we truly call them ours. You're like, my sperm or my egg, my body, my genes. How can you tell me they're not mine? So in conscious parenting, I'm teaching parents that yes, they came through you, but how do you not impose your ideas, your fantasies, your ideals, your expectations especially when those belief systems are largely toxic. Like so many of us pass down toxic belief systems. How do you think our world looks the way it does today? And that's why I wrote these books because it starts from the home. You know, we are at a cultural inflection point, Lewis, and you've just chosen to have children.

Yes.

At this very critical point in our world culture where for the first time, the parents' attachment and connection is potentially being bypassed, hijacked, sabotaged by technology. So where before, when I wrote "Conscious Parenting" the first time and I came to you years ago, our attention was in jeopardy just because we were distracted.

Parents were distracted.

Parents were distracted. But at least we knew that attachment needed to be secure. Now our attention and our attachment is being hijacked by technology. You know, people are creating relationships with ChatGPT bots, with their AI agent. They're having employees and team meetings with AI agents. Soon there will be robots in the house. So this mass disconnection is so pernicious, so dangerous for the parent-child bond that I felt that I had to write yet 2 more books. Each year I think this is my last parenting book and then something happens that makes me realize, and I wrote 2 for sons and daughters, even though they're both growing up in the same world, the algorithm treats each of them differently because it knows how to hijack each one's neurobiology differently.

Yeah, not even the algorithm, just society treats men and women differently.

They do, whether we like it or not.

The real-world algorithm and the digital algorithm is hijacking sons and daughters.

Yes, and each one adapts to that same world in very different ways with different hormonal timelines, different developmental blueprints, different neurobiologies. And so, So I felt in order to truly give parents a blueprint, you know, everyone now knows that there's an urgent situation going on in the world. Children's mental health crisis has never been such an abysmal tragedy as today. I mean, this is astronomical levels of suicidality, loneliness, anxiety, body dysmorphia, identity fragmentation. I mean, you chose this time to have children.

Well, it's interesting because your daughter is in her young 20s, right? So I'm sure there were challenges from when she was in middle school and high school, I guess 10 years ago when it started in middle school, high school for her, that she had to face certain challenges with society pressure and social media and comparison and all these things. But 10 years later, like she almost missed what is happening now, right? I'm sure she had a lot of her own things that she had to navigate. But imagine being 8 now with all that's happening, 9 or 10 now with all that's happening. How can parents, like, protect their kids from everything coming at them? Like, how does even parents think consciously enough on what to do?

Yeah.

To serve their kids.

Yeah.

Let alone at 8 or 9. But for me, as my 6-year-old daughters, it's like I have no clue what's about to change. It's going to change so fast.

Yeah. So the first place for any parent, especially of young children or teens, or even me, and even though my daughter's in her 20s, is that the parent needs to be in supreme emotional regulation. But if the parent is on TikTok—

Oh yeah, scrolling all day.

Scrolling all day.

No chance.

And the parent is sabotaged and hijacked by comparison and anxiety and perfectionism. And she's feeling lesser than, and the male parent parent, I'm just talking stereotypically, is dismissive and avoidant and suppressing his emotions, how will they show up for this child now? So I'm telling you, when I wrote Conscious Parenting years ago, 16 years ago, attention was a problem. Talk about how difficult attention is today, right? Attention and attachment are being hijacked. So what do parents need to do?

So there's a lack of attachment to —of parents?

—to our children, yes.

Is it the parents lacking the ability to attach their kids, or is it their kids' inability to focus to attach their parents?

Well, we have allowed digital immersion and overstimulation of the modern chaotic world to so infiltrate our own psyches and our homes that the capacity for us to show up connected to ourselves, our moments of solitude with ourselves, Lewis, When is the last time you stared outside a window? Bored. Bored.

Yes.

And allowed yourself to be connected to your own thoughts and allowed yourself to unwind without just, mm, let me check my phone. Oh, let me send some emails. Oh, and let me start scrolling. So those gaps that have filled the moments of solitude have disconnected us as adult human beings. Wow. In itself, our capacity to pay attention, to tune in, to zone in, to attach, to align with our children, to watch them. You have 2 daughters now. You're already noticing so many differences. But imagine if your capacity to pay attention was diminished over years. You're distracted, you're overwhelmed, you're anxious, you're chaotic. They pick up their mirror is you. So they're looking into the mirror, which is the parent, to see, is the world a safe place? Am I a person of worth and value? Attention. They're looking based on how you are looking at them. But if the parent is glossed over, the parent is disconnected, the parent has no ability, it's not the child's fault, right? The child is born into the environment. It's the parents who have to create the pace. So for a parent like you in today's world, you have to be even more conscious, I'm sorry, than I was. You have to be otherworldly because otherwise the void of your lack will be filled in not just by boredom, but by strangers in her algorithm or her friend's algorithm. So then you have strangers in your child's psyche. You wouldn't allow your daughter to travel the world alone at 8. But the world is in her algorithm by 8. Wow. Yeah.

Now, what would you say is the number one skill to develop to be a conscious parent? Is it emotional regulation? Is it healing? Like, what is the number one skill for conscious parenting?

The skill above all skills is the ability to be present. But the ability to be present— What does that take? Takes 15 things, right? It takes Being at complete here and now mindful attention. What does that take? That takes a simple existence. Your ability to have an unchaotic life. Your ability to be okay in the present and not live in the future or the past. That means you have to do some healing of your past. Your ability to be with this being who is not really gonna give you much. It's kind of a one-way street for a long time. And then, then the quality of your presence. So it's not just being there, it's what you are there and what you are showing up with. So if you're showing up with a lot of dogma, a lot of fundamentalism, a lot of homophobia, for example, that's not conscious presence. So then you have to work on your belief systems and heal yourself and ask yourself, what do I wanna pass down? To my children in their emotional legacy, right? What is their emotional inheritance? And that requires me to examine my belief systems, right? So if you have a 12-year-old who comes home and says, I wanna be an artist and I don't wanna go to high school, how will you navigate that? You have a kid who is on the medical track and then drops out and wants to be a, a potter or a carpenter. How do you navigate that? You have a 15-year-old who is confused about their identity and they don't know who they're going to be, and you're terrified that they may go away that is not okay with you. How are you going to handle that? So in all these infinite moments, you're being asked to show up in the most conscious way possible, and you won't be able to do it unless you've cultivated that practice.

It's hard for a lot of people to heal. And to be present and to deal with their own traumas from their parents, let alone once they bring children into this world, learn how to not repeat the pattern of that trauma. But again, we're talking about the trap in the beginning. A lot of people, I remember saying, "I'm never going to be like my dad in this way. I'm never going to be like my mom." But then you start to see like, "Huh, why am I acting in certain ways? I have to catch myself." It's like, Is the only way to not repeat the things you don't like about the way you were raised, is the only way is you have to heal from that parent-child relationship yourself first before you can have a new parent-child relationship next?

Yeah, it's not an if-then. It's something that happens simultaneously. So don't worry, anyone listening who feels they need to be prepackaged healed, It's not possible. The beautiful thing is your willingness to lean in when you see your dad show up through you and not have the narcissistic audacity to think your dad is not going to show up. Your dad is going to show up over and over and over again. Really? Yes.

Why is that? Just because it's been programmed for so long?

It's a blueprint. It's a blueprint. And I'm not saying that's going to happen, but when it happens, don't be shocked by it. Lean into it and go, wow. And you almost thank your child for showing you that unhealed part still lives in you. Interesting. Yeah, because many parents feel ashamed, you know, when they yell at their kid or they lose their temper. Now, I'm not endorsing it, but shame is yet another voice from the past, you see? So they've not only yelled, which was probably because of a trigger from the past, because very rarely are we reacting in the present. We're typically reacting from the past. Then we have shame and guilt and blame and resentment, which is more past. So I empower parents to just be very comfortable with the fact that they are going to screw up their children. Like, don't try to avoid that. Don't try to be so obsessively perfect and then be so hurt that you are messing it up, because that's your narcissism. If you just accept it is going to be a shit show, now let me lean in and try to show up the best I can. So my daughter at 23 will say things to me like, "I cannot believe Dr. Shefali is saying this to me," right? Because she'll use that against me. She'll use my alter consciousness against me. I'm going, "You are so manipulative." And I go, "I'm so sorry I'm not Dr. Shefali. Like, I am a human being struggling here, and I'm not I'm not here to be perfect. I'm here to grow. And I cannot apologize for the rest of my life for being my messed up self. I'm here to grow, but I'm not here to pretend that I can just be embarrassed and ashamed all the time. This is who I am, my vulnerabilities, my imperfections and all. And we will work through it together. Let's go for therapy together. Like, I'm not here, I'm not hiding from it., but I'm not gonna pretend it's not in the room. I am here with my baggage. When a child comes of age, we need to tell them, in case you haven't noticed, I have a lot of baggage. I'm not perfect. I'm not perfect. And now we have to deal with this. And when you become a parent or you become a partner or you become a friend, you need to own that baggage that you will carry. So this idea, this holistic kind of positive psychology, perfectionistic, healed self, or this idea that you don't harm harm people because of your baggage. No, you do. We're always with our baggage, and we don't have to be embarrassed about it, but we do need to own it, lean into it, and have humility that I have a lot of it, you know, and I'm not away, I'm not separate from it.

Yeah. This belief that parents own their children, right? Or it's like, these are my kids, right? When you're constantly choosing to have kids, Did those children want to be in this world? Like, how did those souls say, I'm choosing to be with these parents? Do we have that answer?

Yeah, so Lewis, you're presuming the worldview of a soul, right? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know, right? What we do know is that biology has created life. Now our children are here, and we do know that every child comes with their essence. You were telling me how different your twins are. Different. Different.

It's crazy to me. It seems crazy to me. Yes. But why are they different? Like, why is it—

Because every wiring is different, and it's so intricate, the symphony of neurobiology and neurochemistry. You know, you were asking me, I mean, this is about my midlife and how I'm experiencing midlife compared to my friends. Why are they experiencing it in one way and I'm experiencing it differently? Why are you made up like this and your best friend made up— why are you so coordinated? And it's because our neurobiology and our genetics create the symphony within us that is unique each time. And just a little tweak causes a cascade of differences, right? My vocal cords could be just a little different and I could be better than Adele. Not me, but you know. It's just a little tweaking, right? Why do I have these eyes and my brother has different eyes? Why are you so tall, your sister different? It's neurochemistry and genetics and then culture, right? So biology loads the gun, but then culture pulls the trigger. Pulls the trigger. Yeah.

I mean, What do you think the purpose is for our children to be in our lives? What is that purpose? Is it to teach us? Is it to be a mirror of the triggers that we haven't healed? Is it to teach us to grow? Is it to— I love it.

I love that. What is that purpose? Okay, so let's look at the— I look at it as different layers. So at the biological layer, which is the most basic layer. Procreation, survival. It's procreation, reproduction, life, regeneration. Genetic transmission, right? So that's at the genetic. We have this call to life. Life has a call to life.

And to extend life.

And to just extend life. You know, you were talking about your legacy. Yeah. It's this primal urge. Women, many of them will say around age 35, "Oh my goodness, I need to have a baby." What is that, right? There's this primal blueprint. So that's biological. Then on the psychological level, I always teach that If you wish to lean into that, you can begin to uncover your patterns and you can begin to look at the child-parent relationship, the attachment, the dynamics that show up, and undo the dysfunction on the psychological. You go to therapy, you call Dr. Shifali, you read my books. And then I do think you can, if you want to lean in, to the transcendent level. If you wish to have an evolved view of parenting, and that's where conscious parenting comes in, which is beyond ego, which is beyond, this is my child. Now I look at my child not as mine, but as a being I get to help usher into their destiny, but I don't attach them with my identity.

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Yeah. And then it's like letting go of the identity of mother. That's hard. Letting it go. So if, if a child comes to the parent and goes, I hate you, And you wanna go, well, I hate you too. Or how dare you talk to me like that? Because now you're stuck at the psychological, the dynamic, the dysfunction, because my identity is attached to how you talk to me, right? Every time I descend into my ego with my daughter, it's because I'm identifying how dare she talk to me. I'm her mother, right? Everything I've sacrificed.

Yeah, she came through me, ruined my body, all these things, right?

It's a body. Role, identity, how other people will look at me, how can she talk, she, me, daughter, mother, role-based identity. But then when the few moments that I can transcend, I can see her as a being who's struggling and who's lost and who's disconnected and is yearning for connection. And if I'm able to be so beautiful in that transcendence. Very hard to do. I look at my job not as her mother, but really as her guide to take her back to herself. Interesting. Right? This is about her being integrated, her being connected. Even when I don't like who she is right now, or I don't like that she's, you know, my daughter decided to become a chef, right? I love it, but had I not You don't like that?

You do? No, I do.

Of course. I'm just happy.

Hey, maybe it's for you. Yeah. I'm so happy.

Yes. But had I had a different vision for her. Oh, you should have been a lawyer. You should have been a surgeon. Or, you know, you have so much potential. How can you be cutting chicken? Right? I could trip her. Sure. Right? I could say, this is not okay. Standing in a kitchen is not okay. This is a stupid job. It's $7 an hour. I could do a lot of things to damage her out of my, love, but it would be my ego.

Ego love is not real love, right?

But parents think it's love because I'm protecting her.

Why is the tendency in a society for a lot of parents to want their kids to be in a certain lane in their— at college and then have a career that the parents want? Why is that so important for so many adult parents that their kids become a certain profession? Yeah.

You're asking me the most important question. So I'm going to give you a provocative answer, and many of your listeners are not gonna like me right now when I say this. And this is why I teach conscious parenting. The reason for that imposing our ideals is because in many ways, the very reason we have children is to have a trophy, is to have an ambassador, is to have somebody who heals us, somebody who now we can curate and puppeteer to be the unrealized selves we never were. Oh my gosh. But it's really subconscious. Yeah, we're not thinking it. No, you're not thinking it. And that's why parents get very offended when I say, and I'm not saying that it is always true, but it's always a potential. I see it in my parenting, and I'm trying to be conscious, Really? Yes. One every day.

I mean, listen, as a driven individual who had grew up looking to accomplish and achieve to feel worthy. Yes. I could probably see myself unconsciously creating that trap for my kids, for my daughters, of repeating that cycle of like, all right, now I see you gifted in this area, so I'm going to nurture it and I'm going to develop it. Yes. And even saying this out loud, I'll probably still do that. Yes. But it's knowing how to do it. I guess it's learning how to do that as a parent. From a place of love and nurturing to develop their gifts and talents and personalities and expressions, but also being okay if that's not the direction they want to go in. But it's going to be really hard, especially when you see talent, because I'm going to be like, let's go maximize this. Yes, yeah, of course. Yes, I'm going to want to maximize that talent. Yes. So it's learning, I guess, or coach me, learning how to develop and nurture and celebrate the talent, but also just celebrate them as their being outside of the talent.

But that's what you just said. You hit it. You have to decide as a parent philosophically, am I raising a human being or a human doing? And don't lie about it. Yeah. Right? Because if you're raising a human doing, then the kid who just strums the table is going to become a drummer. The kid who's just pirouetting in the kitchen will be enrolled in ballet school. The kid who's just good at math is now sent to, you know, learn chemistry at MIT without you even realizing because you are identifying your role as a parent to raise a human doing, an achiever, an exceller. And that mindset typically of that parent is a very scarcity-based mindset because they were raised like that, that they must prove their existence and their worth. Like you were, you got so much validation for your achievements, you've tied the two together. And so without that, you're like, who am I then? Like, I'm not worthy. But children are inherently worthy as they are, but you have to really believe it. And when you are okay with your child being ordinary, what if you have a child who is completely average, Lewis? You've never been average. So, I mean, I know you struggled in school. So you have vulnerability and connection.

I have insecurity, yeah, yeah. But you overcompensated. Driven, yes. Obsessive and so on.

But what if your child doesn't overcompensate? Now, it's going to be tricky. I'm not saying that they should be losers. But what if a star, a star parent, which I see so much, has an average child, which actually is a good thing. I mean, it's not a bad thing. It's not like, look at you. You're like, oh my God. Like the average is— is a criminal or like the biggest loser. They're good. They're just like solid B or solid— they're good.

Well, I was never a B student, so I guess it was okay, but I excelled another way.

Yeah, you overcompensated. Yeah. But we have such anathema to ordinariness because we live in a hustle culture for decades, because we live on external. And let me tell you, that's why these two books are so important, because if we lived like that, Lewis, comparison anxiety, perfectionism, obsessiveness, external validation, they, in this generation, are living that to the point of collapse. Oh yeah. They are not handling it. You know, why are our children falling apart today? Because they cannot handle it. They are telling us, the statistics are clear, they are drowning and we are not paying attention. We're just keeping on going. We're just, we're like, oh, why stop at social media? Let's go to AI. Why stop at AI? Let's go to super AI. We're not listening to our children. The st— we have never before seen such a mass collapse of our children's mental health. Wow. 8-year-olds on diets, 11-year-olds addicted to porn, infinite girls self-harming, body dysmorphia, suicidal ideation. Boys and males 4 times more than girls and women to commit suicide, like to complete it. The loneliness epidemic. I mean, we are not paying attention. I wrote these books to wake us up, not just to the urgent call for help, but to provide a blueprint. Because it's one thing to be anxious, but now what to do? So chapter by chapter, I have tools. Just try these 5 things. You know, and just the memory of like, okay, in this moment, that book said I need to take my daughter back to her sovereign self and I can do it. I have to remember that she's losing her voice. So for girls, for you, for example, right? What are you facing, right? In 10 years. Yeah, what am I facing? Or even sooner. Who knows?

I don't know what I'm facing in 10 years.

But there are some things you can know based on female history.

Neurochemistry. Yes. Yeah, you're facing, you know, puberty. You're facing—

The tendency. Yeah, yeah, of course. The tendency. And of course, you can have a boy just like that. It's not just strictly divided. I don't want to be reductive here, but just on the main, girls are extremely sensitive to emotional rejection. Oh, yeah. We've talked about that. And to connection. Uh-huh. They scan the room for, do I belong? Am I worthy? Do you approve of me? They build their sense of self through connection. So today's girl is growing up with less connection and more strangers comparing her to impossible standards. She's never going to be good enough to the AI filters and to the amazing curated editorial feeds that she's scrolling. She's being bombarded by products. Bombarded by perfect bodies. So her sense of self, which is created in relationship, is now with these digital perfection. She will— she is and will keep feeling disembodied and collapsing. She will not find her bearings. And we cannot call it dramatic or unhealthy that she's anxious. Anxiety today is an appropriate response to an insane culture. And our girls are anxious. And her neurobiology is so sensitive. The estrogen that creates the baby in her gives her the oxytocin to bond. The oxytocin to bond makes her uniquely fine-tuned to eye contact, to the emoji. I've had 16, 17-year-old girls come to me Showing me text messages and going, "You know, they put 3 exclamation marks, or they had this emoji, and this emoji means that they don't like me." Oh my gosh, the psychology of the emoji, right? Because what they can't do with eye contact and body language, they're projecting onto text. They're interpreting. Which is, you know how hard, you cannot interpret text. You and I cannot interpret text. We get it wrong. So imagine the girl who's trying to find herself through this. So what I will tell you for girls, is to never call their emotions drama because you're gonna be like, okay, this is a bit dramatic.

What if it is? I was gonna say, okay, never call.

It probably is, but calling it dramatic, wrong thing to do because you have to help them feel safe in their body. You know, girls have to learn how to manage their hyper emotions. So calling it dramatic is judgmental, it suppresses it. Okay. The next thing you need to be aware of is that they need physical contact and presence, girls and boys, but more girls than boys, because they find themselves through relationships. And boys are driven by different neurochemistry. So as much as the girl is relationally driven, the boy is driven by pursuit, by achievement, by competition, by action. And if you look at how our boys are being raised today, you know, on average, children used to spend 13+ hours outside with friends a week. And now it's less than 5. So that boy, imagine you, the most active boy, the most physical boy who needed venting.

Outside all day, all night.

Yeah, so now strap him into a chair where all he has is a video console. So he is channeling all that male energy, testosterone, into a screen and killing And WarGames, that's how these video game gamers, the producers of these video games, the creators have hijacked our boys' neurobiologies because they've made these levels and they've made these worlds where they have— Imaginary conquering, I guess.

And they have brotherhood. Yeah, virtual.

Virtual brotherhood for virtual challenges, for fake achievement. But that real energy that's suppressed and coiled in the body, has nowhere to go. So then he will pick up that AK-47 and go shoot up a school. I'm just saying, it has to go somewhere.

It's so funny, I saw this video maybe a few months ago of a father in a car talking to his son who was like, I don't know, 13 or something. And he said, you know what punishment used to be when I was growing up in the '80s or '90s or whatever? He said, being in my room and not being allowed to go outside was punishment because all we wanted to do was go outside and play with our friends. And he goes, really? He goes, I like being in my room and just being on video games. Like, I could just be on my video game in my room all day, forever.

But look what's happened. The outside elements of nature where you're free, you're taking risks, your body is being tested, you're with other children, you are playing in real time and learning skills, competence, hierarchy, dominance. For boys, so important. All that is being replaced by a digital algorithm that is keeping the boy feeling— all that physical energy is being suppressed and he's mentally engaging, but that does nothing for him. Yeah, it gives him this addictive dopamine, but not natural dopamine. And now he's addicted to that synthetic dopamine, but his body has all this testosterone and nowhere to take it. So boys are shutting down and then, comes porn, and then comes the manosphere ready to sweep in. You know, the minute an 11-year-old boy logs on, the manosphere content comes to the boy, not to the girl, but to the boy. Without him realizing, he's being told how to have a square jaw and big biceps and how to get a girl and how girls are actually the problem. And how if he's rejected, it's not because of him, It's because of the girl. So look how brilliantly architected. They give the boy a channel to displace all their frustration. So the boy who's not going out to the playground where he's being tested by other boys, where he's being challenged, where he has to deal with rejection and failure, now he's in the video game matrix, barely being tested because the video game keeps him successful. It keeps him going. Keep winning. Keep winning a little bit, at least. Challenging enough, but winning. It's artificial. It's not real skill. And then the manosphere is telling him, all this pent-up energy, you know, you have a right to go and get women. And if they don't accept you, even though you've learned no skills, you've been sitting in this chair, when they don't accept you, it's because they are being evil. They are the problem. So our young boys are getting a completely artificial view and they're lost. Our boys are lost. So in my book, I think this book, Raising Conscious Sons, is so on point for today because we are making boys feel so ashamed on one hand of their emotions, and on another hand, we give them this caricature of masculinity with big biceps, Popeye style, and They're like, okay, I can't be soft, or I have to be so crazy hard. I don't know who to be in between that. So we're telling boys what not to do, but we're not showing them what conscious masculinity could look like. Wow. So here I give them a blueprint.

That's powerful. I don't want to miss what you said about the girls thing. You said there was, I think, 3 main things. First, never call girls' emotions dramatic. Second thing you said, they need physical Connection. Connection and presence. Was there a third thing for women, for girls?

Well, I think the most important thing after that would be to be so careful about how you may inadvertently sexualize as a male figure other women. Because they are picking up how males look at them. They're picking up cues. You know, we've all done this. The male gaze and how they're being treated as an object or as a human. So as a father, you have a unique opportunity in how you look at women and how you talk about women's bodies and how you comment on hair and appearance, especially with your wife, and how you devote your, your bounty toward their mother. Will deeply affect their sense of self. So you play a pivotal role in your daughter's self-esteem and self-worth and how she views herself in her body.

Would you say that the father is the main person of a daughter that determines their self-worth?

Is a primary one, is a primary architect. It would be good if you don't mess that up. But if you're not there, It can be any male figure. Right. Right, but of course we want the biological father, but if they're not capable, not capable.

I mean the father figure, I mean, yeah.

The father figure, yeah. That's what I mean. Yes, the damage a father figure can cause to a girl is insurmountable, but even to a boy. Oh, sure, yeah, of course. Boys need the conscious masculine blueprint so desperately. So basically we need more conscious men, yes, and women.

Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that how a father treats the mother is one of the best predictors of success of how children end up in relationships. Yes, it's powerful.

Really? Because you can be the antidote to the misogyny of the culture. And if you leave it to culture to teach boys and girls how men and women interact, there's going to be just the perpetuation of oppression. But you have a unique opportunity to undo that through the modeling, whether you, Not you, but whether the father and mother stay together or not is not the point. The point is how does the man revere and respect the unique role of his children's mother.

What would you say are some, like, a few things that a father and a husband can do to really set up the success for the health and well-being of their daughters or sons? With the mother and the things that they should never do with the mother?

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm asking for a friend. So I think a father, the most powerful thing a father can do is understand his own shadow, the parts of him that he has been culturally and historically taught to repress. His anger, his sexuality, his judgment, his misogyny, his racism, especially if he's a white male who's been dominant, or his privilege. Uncover and unpack that because there is so much that an unintegrated adult privileged male, the damage that male can do without realizing it. You know, especially a white male who's of privilege. You have the capacity to break— I mean, I'm not putting all this on you, but your position has so much healing potential because it's caused so much harm in the world. So you get to undo that. Talk about brown people, talk about women, talk about sexuality and how women are objectified. Bring it to the table. Teach your son. To what conscious restraint means, what conscious sexuality means. Initiate your boy to handle his business in a conscious way without shaming the boy. Initiate your boy into his manhood with beauty and celebration, but also with boundaries and restraint. Teach him to respect when a girl says no, there is no ambiguity. Teach him to wait for the yes. Teach him what respect means around women's bodies, right? So you can show all this. And you can teach your daughter how to not objectify herself.

That's the thing I think I'm most worried about or concerned about, is ensuring that my daughters protect their bodies, you know what I mean? And like making sure that they really value their bodies. I think that's the thing I'm probably most— I'm not afraid of, but just worried about with all the influences, right, that they're going to experience from society, friends, online stuff, whatever it might be. How can I as a father set my daughters up the best way possible to ensure they protect their bodies? Yeah. And their self-worth around their bodies.

Yes. Yes. We are in an era of artificial female empowerment where OnlyFans as a symbol is seen as sexual empowerment and emancipation. How damaging is that? How damaging? Because it's really patriarchal. Patriarchy again, the toxic patriarchy.

Isn't that interesting? Again. But what is, so how damaging is OnlyFans mentality and culture?

For the girl. For the girl. For the girl who is the OnlyFan.

Yeah, how damaging is that?

Who thinks she's so empowered. How damaging is that? Yes, because she now makes money at a 10x. So she thinks she's empowered. Now I'm not saying it's not great to have money like that and all-powerful.

What does that do for the psychology of a woman?

But she's not understanding that she's still earning her money through her own objectification and handing it to the male. So then at least just know that that's what you're doing. Don't pretend you're not doing exactly what you're upset that the toxic patriarchy does.

So a lot of women, listen, I'm glad you're saying this, but a lot of women aren't gonna like what you're saying.

I know that, yeah. But it's true. Yeah. Think about it. I'm not saying don't do it, but know what you're doing. You are objectifying your own body Handing it to the toxic patriarchy and then upset with the toxic patriarchy when the toxic patriarchy objectifies you. Yes. That's all I'm saying.

Don't be upset.

Because you are participating readily and making money of it at your own objectification. So own it then. Go, I am working with the toxic patriarchy toward my own objectification. That's not gonna heal the world. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But this is what our daughters are watching, right? I have so many 22-year-olds who come to me and go, they want to be, on OnlyFans.

What is the statistic of women on OnlyFans? Do we know how many there are?

I mean, it is more than you want to. Between 20 and 30, I think it's appalling numbers. I don't have the exact statistic because people won't say.

Between women in their 20s and 30s?

Yes, it is a thing. It's an aspiration to do. And you know how many married white American, married, married, married men are on OnlyFans? They're the highest population. Oh, sure.

I mean, they're the ones spending the money.

Yes, yeah, because they have the money.

Yeah. I mean, my wife has access to my phone, so she knows I'm not on there. But I could see how addictive it could be. I could see how addictive it could be.

But let's go below. Let's go beneath it. Let's go beneath what's happening, right? It's one thing to judge it. Of course. But it's another thing to understand it. Let's understand it. Yeah. Right? Why is it addictive, right? It's addictive for the same reason a video game is addictive. It provides instant dopamine, no rejection, no failure. There's no failure in porn. So our sons are watching girls bending over, making sounds, always willing. There's no foreplay, there's no skill. So our boys are thinking, "It's no rejection." "What's wrong with you? You're supposed to act like that, you know, and always want me." So this is why it's addictive. It's addictive because it creates this psychologically comfortable world, which is a simulation of reality. If I pay my OnlyFans friend, how much, I don't even know, $50 a month, she will do anything for me that my wife gives me trouble for because I didn't clean the dishes. Now I have to deal with reality. I don't wanna deal deal with reality. So there's a mass exodus from reality. In traditional prostitution, I'm just saying, this is not a— we're not going down there, but there was at least a human being. This is a screen, and soon it'll be robots. So what does that do? It takes away real-life failure, real-life friction, real-life skill building, resilience, grit. It creates entitlement. It creates apathy. Restlessness, boredom. And where does all this energy go? Right? It is going to explode in perversion. And we are seeing that. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, again, everyone's making their own choices. I've made a lot of mistakes in my past. So I'm not here to judge anyone who's either paying for it or getting paid for this. But on a psychological and emotional level, if a girl in her late teens, 20s, or 30s is going on any platform to receive money for their body sexually, nudity, things like that. What is that doing to them psychologically and emotionally or spiritually? And how does that affect them in real-world intimacy and relationships?

Well, they are fully participating at the level of transaction, and they need to understand that They're not transacting computational skills or medical skills for money. They are transacting their body. It's another form of barter and exchange. No judgment, but they need to know what they're doing. And when you do it over and over, when it is your actual body, right? It's not a skill, it's my body. And for a female, it's a penetration. It's a lot of physical. Interaction, at some level, there has to be a dissociation to survive it, right? At some level.

Even if it's not a physical transaction, but a more OnlyFans transaction.

Correct, even if it's only on virtual, but many times it blurs, right? Yeah, I'm sure it does, yes. Because you have to produce content, right?

Right, right, with someone else.

With someone else, yes. Lewis Howes.

I'm just thinking of a woman just getting naked or something.

No, no, no. Action, a lot of action and variety. And so, so that woman has to dissociate on some level. And it does have its own cost. But again, we can't judge it. We have to understand it. Right. We don't want to put anybody down. It's up to them to, to figure out what works for them.

But I guess what's the consequence then, in intimacy, in real-world relationships?

Yeah.

When someone does that year after year? Yeah.

Yeah. We don't know. But it, it has— it is bound to have an effect. Right? What the effect is, I don't think it's positive. But, but hey, you know, after 10 years of doing it, it could be like, I'm so fed up with this, I want real intimacy. So we can't say that how the person will evolve and turn it around. But in that moment, to, to be an object of desire for money over and over and over is bound to come at the price of connection.

What if for women watching or listening is thinking, you know what, I'm doing this and I'm making generational wealth and it's freed me from having to go get a job that I would be working so hard to make any money and it's given me freedom and flexibility and it's my body, I can do whatever I want. And so, it's given me this life that I could never have doing any other job. What would you say to a woman who says that to you?

I would say, if that's your conscious choice, and you're clear that it's a transaction, and you're willing to pay the price of extreme objectification, no one can stop you. But do not think it is liberation and sexual female emancipation. You are playing into the oldest game in the world. Really? And do it with consciousness. No other woman should judge them, but they have to figure it out for themselves. But don't call it sexual liberation when you're playing the same notes of female-male dynamics.

Why is it not sexual liberation when so many women are saying that?

Only because it comes at the cost of that transaction, meaning it's not you on your own. Autonomous, sovereign. You won't do it for a dollar. You're doing it for the $50. You're doing it for the $500. So it's the transaction.

So it's not— When you exchange for money.

Right, it's not sexual liberation because that's my authentic truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come, I wanna do it in the park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is autonomous sexual sovereignty. This is clearly transactional. So as long as you know that it is for the money, I won't do it for $2, I'll do it for $2 million.

Yeah.

No, so that's not sexual emancipation. That's very good business savvy.

Right.

Right. I'm trading my body for money. It has to have a price. Of course. Yes. And that's okay as long as you know it, but don't call it you're doing it because you're sexually liberated. No, you're doing it because you figured out the formula.

I mean, let's take it down the next path. For women or men getting involved in selling themselves for money, their bodies for money, whether it be them interacting on videos or them just doing it solo and selling themselves, they're selling their body for money. And then they have kids and their kids grow up knowing that mom or dad does this. How does that affect the psychology or the emotions of the children of parents who sell themselves? For their body?

I think the parents have to create a very clear narrative. They can't leave it to the imagination of the child or culture. You must express your purpose behind it. When I leave my house to go on a job, which takes me away for 2 weeks, I have to explain it. I have to have a narrative. I have to have a mission. I have to have a coherence. So however the parent needs to do that, hey, I did this because I wanna create generational wealth. Hey, I did this because, That's all I know how to do. Have a narrative that allows your child to understand your personal impetus, your personal motivation, so you don't leave it to their imagination because it's too much. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And you don't want them to necessarily feel that that's the quickest, best way to do things, right? So if you overglamorize it or if you, you know, you have to allow the child to understand your motivation, but they have other choices.

What if someone's like, you know what, it's between making, you know, $7 an hour and giving my whole life to this other thing or being financially free? I said, all power to you.

Just know that you're doing it for the transaction. You're earning money this way, which happens to be a way that falls into what you complain about the patriarchy will do to your daughter.

Just know that. Mm. Yeah, that's a challenge. I mean, The more you talk about these things, the more I am worried about my daughters in society. And I am curious, I feel like I have a pretty good game plan so far, but I am sure things are going to throw me off. I am sure. And it is being prepared for the unexpected is what I am also trying to prepare for.

Yeah. You know, Lewis Howes is saying that God laughs at the most, especially of the parent. Exactly.

But you know, stuff's going to be thrown my way. If you could coach me and give me advice, or any parent who's got young daughters, what would you have me do in the first few years of life to try to set myself up for the best possible environment scenario so that they can thrive into coming home to their true self, which is what I think you said being a parent is about, is getting your kids to come home to who they truly are.

Yeah, it's very easy and very difficult. Okay, so the easy part is you have to be safe, you have to light up, you have to connect, you have to be attuned, you have to be there. It's easy. The difficult part is you have to ensure with intentionality that you are not attaching to their doing. So if they're dancing well and you're like, oh my God, you're such a good dancer, and then she sees Daddy light up because she's a good dancer, she's going to inch towards that approval. That's the difficult part.

So how do you navigate it to celebrating them without emphasizing on the task of celebration?

Yeah, really hard. It's a decision you make that for the first 7 to 8 years, this is just a formula, I'm not telling people. It's just a way of looking at it. For the first 7 to 8 years, I am not I'm not going to focus on the doing. I'm just not. Even though she's showing promise of being a world-class skier or tambourine player or salsa dancer, right? Like you are. I am not going to emphasize the doing. I'm going to stay unimpressed. Neutral. Unimpressed. Really? No, lovely. You can clap and laugh, but you're not pushing it.

You're not like, ah, you're awesome.

And then taking them for professional singing classes and then enrolling them You're not pushing it. Because that's not the focus. The focus right now is just exposure and range and play and being in their body.

For 7, 8 years, yeah.

Yeah, you have to be honest.

8 years, then you drive them into some specific— But here's the thing.

Look what happens when you take a kid who is playing with sticks and stones in the park and is really good with sticks and stones. They can make forts, they can play baseball, they are hitting the goal with sticks and stones. Now you put that kid into regimented baseball with a coach. Do you see the difference between him being in his body in the sticks and stones and then being on the field? He's now performing. Mm-hmm. Yes. He's not playing. He's not playing. There's pressure now. Yeah. So this earlier and earlier advent of movement from play to performance, a child's natural being to performance, is the fracture. But no one wants to wait till 8 because by then everyone's already at Carnegie Hall and playing world baseball. Yes. I say the story of when I took my daughter at age 8 for a dance class. Okay, Lewis, I thought I'm so advanced because in India there was nothing. So I'm thinking I'm super advanced, 8 years old. I'm taking her to the local dance studio. Okay. The woman looks at me and I'm very intimidated because this is such an American thing. And she says, "Oh, okay, your daughter's 8. Okay, good, good, good. We'll put her with the 2-year-olds." So I said, "No, no, no." She's 8. My daughter's 8. She's like, "Sweetheart, nobody learns dance at 8." So I went, "Where was the memo?" She said, "No, they're already very advanced by 8, so she can only learn dancing with the 2-year-olds." Wow. Yes. So I had to enroll her in solo activities like tennis and horse riding because I was so behind the curve. Wow. And I did not know this. Like, parents are on the money. They are on it. It's a profession. Parenthood has become a profession. Wow. And parents take it very seriously. If you look at the football little league and the baseball little league.

And probably it comes from like the idea of like, I want my kids to have the best opportunity.

An early start.

Right? I want them to have the best opportunity to succeed in life.

But are we creating an athlete? Right? We are. Are we creating the Ivy League student? Yes, we are. We're not raising children. We are raising an adult, but we're not raising an adult, we're raising a child. And children need to be in their body and play. And play is a child's work. And the minute you take them out of play and make them actually work, you've actually short-circuited their natural development and taken them out of connection with their body into the doing space.

What about helping with picking up after your toys or chores or whatever? That's not work then. It's helpful work.

But also you don't have to flip the hell out. Of course they're contributing. They're part of a system. You don't have to go crazy either. The house will not be clean and just accept it.

But I mean, like, taking them out of play and having them still have to do some tidying and learning.

They have to still brush their teeth, but everything through play. If you can do everything through play, you will have success. But play takes presence from the parent. It's much easier to say, I'll punish you, go do it yourself, go do it now, versus saying, let's make a game out of it. I had a mother come to me recently with, I think, 3 or 4 boys, and she was haggard. She was like, I'm about to shoot myself, help me. So I go, okay, you were waiting for the girl, weren't you? She was like, yes. And she said, I'm not taking the risk of another child, 'cause she got 4 boys, right? And I told her that if you don't make every activity some sort of adventure or hurdle or scavenger, a challenge, you will be fighting them because all that physical energy before they brush their teeth needs to tumble and search and hunt and look, send them into the garden to look for the toothpaste, to look for the toothbrush, to look for— An adventure. An adventure, exhaust them or play with them, make it a competition, make it something that speaks to the boy's energy. But our boys are being wildly domesticated. And their testosterone cannot be harnessed. And we want our boys to sit in circle with like the girls.

And sit still for 8 hours.

And sit still. It's not possible. It is not possible. So our education system is anti-male neurochemistry.

Yeah, I feel like it really, I suffered because of the system. Yes. You know, it's like, I don't blame somebody.

That is not how you should have learned. No. You learn through your body. Yes. Most children learn through their bodies, especially boys who are all body, right? Body, boys are bottom-up, girls are top-down. And that's why girls can sit and be coordinated much earlier and their executive functioning turns on much earlier. So 1 in 5 boys, I think, are diagnosed with ADHD. And then the pipeline to medication, then the pipeline to diagnoses, then the pipeline to always feeling lesser than. And not good enough starts early.

Man. Yeah. So up until 8, play, play, play. What's the next phase? 12. 8 to 12.

No, I'm saying to 12. No, you can't do it to 12. Okay, no, no, I'm teasing. At least till 8.

At least till 8, but keep going as long as you can.

Because what are we trying to create here? Are you trying to create an Olympian? Read the biohistories of every Olympian. They'll have some deep depression or drug abuse. I mean, do I have to say about Tiger Woods and the price, you know, all these superstars have paid? So what are we trying to do here? You want to be a parent of an Olympian. You want to be the parent of a superstar. So you didn't just become a parent, not you, but the average parent is not just becoming a parent. They're becoming a parent, they want to be a parent of a superstar. To a performer. To a performer. Even though all their life they hated performing and see the ravaging effects of it. But we repeat the cycle. So play, play, play.

Is there the next step? Season of life though that we should be thinking about?

Then you need to be aware that your daughter is entering pre-adolescence and her hormones are going to turn on. She's going to be more acutely sensitive to nuance, to body language, to eye contact, to rejection. Rejection will feel physical to her.

So how can I as a father teach her? Teach her? Yes. To about that season of life, to not give in to any man, to like make sure she really protects herself, creates boundaries, says no. And this— so I talk about these pillars in my book, okay?

And the most important pillars for a girl, and I'll just run through them fast. The first one is the pillar of voice. Voice, allowing a girl to know she has a right to her inner voice. That means you don't give her answers, you teach her to tune into what her body is saying. You don't tell her, "Eat your food." You ask her, "What is your body saying? When does your body want to eat?" You teach her that her inner knowing is there, we're going to cultivate it. At 2 years old, it looks like, "You want fried egg or you want scrambled egg? You want yellow shoes or blue shoes?" Very simple. But she begins to learn that she has an inner voice and her parents want her to actualize it. Okay. The next one is embodiment, the pillar of embodiment, which means she must learn body integrity and that her body belongs to her. So whether grandma wants to kiss her, whether daddy wants to tickle her, if she says no, her body belongs to her. Right? And this ties into boundaries, right? Conscious boundaries where she needs to understand that she is a finite being with finite energy and she can displease others. So this is where boundaries comes in.

So to ask you a follow-up there, I know one of the main things you talked about was girls need physical connection and presence. Yes. So as a father, At this moment, they're 6 months, I'm hugging them, I'm kissing them, it's like I'm there with them. How do I make sure that I don't cross a boundary as a father so that my daughters feel safe with me, but also communicating them what's safe with others?

It's about how much you're listening, how much you're allowing them to listen to their inner voice. So before jumping in with an answer, you're listening. What do you feel? How do you feel? Talk to me. You know, what's one of your daughters' names? Aliana. Aliana. Aliana asks Daddy, you know, Daddy, what should I eat? And you can so easily say what to eat, but you say, hmm, what does Aliana want? And she was, I don't know. So you said, look inside, what does little Aliana want? And you teach her the skills through your presence. You can only do it if you're present. Yes. You can only do it if you're not in a hurry, because if you're in a hurry, you're like, eat the beans.

But I guess more on like the physical touch side of things, physical connection.

Yeah. You can, you know, as she grows older, you can knock on her door. You can say, you know, "I wanna hug you, can I?" You know? Okay.

What age is that, I guess?

6 or 7, you know, as you'll see, you'll see. And with this new generation, it could be 4 or 5. Interesting. 'Cause they're so smart. They're so clever. Like my daughter will tell me, and she's 23, but she would say things like, I do not want your advice or opinion. I'm just telling you because I respect you. Like, stay in your lane. Yeah, yeah. So things like that. That means, so voice, embodiment, enoughness, that she is enough as she is, right? That's the whole human being. You don't have to do anything. You don't need to be a superstar to make me happy. You don't need to be a perfectionist to make me happy. You are a work in progress and I accept you. I accept you as you are. The more mistakes you make, the more I accept you. You are free and safe, right? Giving that feeling of, oh my goodness, we made a mistake. Oops, you know, and here's Daddy making a mistake, showing that you are enough. We talked about boundaries, that she's allowed to say no to you. If a father allows a daughter to rebel against him, no Daddy, and the father goes, "Wow, I like that you use your voice." You have now given her a prototype on how to handle the patriarchy.

Oh, that's good. Yes. As opposed to what do some fathers do to daughters when they rebel against them?

Yeah, so maybe they can say something like, "You're being irrational. You're being stupid. That's not smart." No, the fact that she's pushing against you, even if it's a bad decision, the act and exercise of regulating and activating that muscle of daring to speak up to a 6-foot-plus man plus father, she's bold now, you know? And the mother can empower her. And how the mother talks to you, that the mother is not scared of the father and the father backs off, not capitulate, but backs off. You are now teaching her that strength doesn't mean that I have to, you know, give my power away. Strength means I can share power, right? You as a male can share power. You're not giving it away, but you're not holding it. You're not dominant and tyrannical. You're sharing power. When you allow your 7-year-old to say, "No, Daddy, I don't like when you do that," and you go, "Tell me more. I wanna hear. I'm interested in knowing how I did wrong." Now she's going, "Wow, I can tell a male to back off me?" But how will she learn to tell her male boss to back off her? So she practices with you. And then I have other pillars I talk about just quickly. I talk about her having antifragility. So antifragility means that this is more something I see women do, mothers do, rushing in to fix and rescue. A lot of moms do this? Typically, but you may do it too. You may have a hard time saying no to your daughter. So you rush in to say yes. This is my number one problem is I just rescue. You do? I do. This has been my biggest nemesis to get over is to like, oh, I cannot just give the answer. You know, it's been really hard. I've had to train myself and she can manipulate me. So yeah, but I know that this is my nemesis. I know what it is. It's on the blackboard, you know? But anti-fragility means not, rushing to rescue. Doesn't mean you create chaos, but you pause and have confidence that your child is competent, even at 2. Wow. So you wait, you let them struggle with the cap, and you let them spill the milk, and you let them— within reason.

Yeah, yeah. Not for hours.

No, no, no. You know when the child's nervous system is overwhelmed, you will know. But you know, when it's the fake, wait a little bit, a little bit, slowly. And I'm not saying let them cry it out. I'm not talking about letting them get too overwhelmed, but let them struggle a little bit. And when they struggle, see it as you're building skills. You know, so in my divorce, one of the hardest things for me as a mother was that my daughter struggled. I mean, I would've undone the divorce, married, because I couldn't take it. Wow. She really— My guilt. Yeah, yeah. My projection, actually she struggled way less than I struggled. Right. Because my projection— Of her struggle. Of her struggle. Because I couldn't take myself as a struggle giver, right? I can't struggle. I caused you to struggle. Even though I didn't, and it wasn't only me. And, but I had to really learn, to see the strength it gave her, right? And that she did develop muscles that have made her so powerful. I'm not saying everyone should do this to their children, but there is beauty in the struggle. Competence grows from struggle. You have to practice struggle, you know? And that's so hard for parents who fix, who are very empathic like me. It's hard for me. But in this generation, because everything is at the fingertips. Uber Eats, you know, our children will complain. You'll see that the Uber Eats driver messed up the delivery. Yes. And you're like, are you kidding me? Right? Or Amazon sent the wrong delivery in 6 hours. Right, right, right. So they have no resilience for things going wrong. The world is becoming more and more at their fingertips. So they wait less for buses, cars, for life. They don't wait anymore. They're not bored. So they don't activate their own skills and creativity and imagination. They don't need to be creative. Now they can just go into ChatGPT. Why be creative? Why write a poem when ChatGPT can write a better poem? So look at the effects on their own skills. So this is creating apathy and listlessness in our children. And literally our children are collapsing because they have no skills. They don't know how to talk to people. I had a 24-year-old come to me looking for a job. So I said, oh, tell me what you've done. She said, well, I sent my resume everywhere. I said, what else? She said, I sent it, no, like to 75 places. And? And? I said, you didn't go to the places? You didn't go in person? She's like, go in person? I said, yes, you don't leave. You make sure you make contact. Did you serve? Did you volunteer? Did you work for free? They're like, work for free? My daughter just got an internship. She's complaining constantly. Can you believe they're not paying me? I go, why would they pay you? You're just starting out.

You don't have any skills yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they have entitlement because they've seen influencers making $200,000 at 18. They've seen influencers flying in private jets. So they're thinking this is the world. But our children have a distorted, your daughters will have a completely distorted reality. And when they go to get their first job, and people look at them and go, we're gonna start at $6 an hour, given that we'll have an economy. They will be aghast. And also you are raising them in reaction to your childhood. Oh yeah. So you're giving them the world.

I've created a life for myself now that I didn't have. And how do you communicate to parents who have created abundance? Yes. To not give their kids abundance. Yes. But to teach them How to appreciate the abundance they have and how to go create it for themselves.

And not take it for granted. How do you teach that? And not be entitled.

And not spoil them too much. Or how do you teach that?

You have to constantly remind your children, this is something that mom and dad worked for, and this comes with a lot of effort. And let them see the effort. You know, see that this is what it takes. And then whenever you can, ask them to start earning something, you know, or contributing. It's extremely hard because we, We have overcorrected from our past.

We've gone the other way. You shouldn't give them everything that you didn't have.

That's what a lot of people do. But our lifestyle gives them everything. It's true. The exposure, it's already inbuilt. So it's not about not living a beautiful, abundant life. It's just constantly bringing to their awareness that this came at a huge cost that you haven't seen and really educating them. Travel, right? Is a great way. Go to India, go to Africa if you can, since you have the wealth. Show them as much exposure to contrast, to friction, and create friction in their life a little bit. Like, a little friction is okay. Like, let them cry a little bit. Let them deal with finding resilience. We just give them the answer, so they're not finding resilience. So you have to let them struggle. So if your child is struggling, oh my goodness, my sister, you have twins, they'll fight over clothes. My sister took the clothes. Let them have the— let them duke it out. Like, let them feel the pain of that. Or the AC isn't working, you know. What the hell? Let them sit in that a bit, you know. Sweat. Create friction because we have so anesthetized the world. There is no friction, you know. Even we can't handle friction. How long can you wait for an Uber before losing it, right? Because we've lost the ability to have delayed gratification, and that creates weakness. We are weaker mentally. We are unstable. Too much abundance and privilege and padding has made us fragile.

And so anti-fragility was the fifth pillar. Was there another one?

There's two more. There's sovereignty and sisterhood. Sovereignty is connected to what we've been talking about, but it's really about Self-authorship. They get to decide their greatness. You cannot project it onto your child. So greatness could be a cobbler, greatness could be a superstar, greatness could be a chef, greatness could be a mom. So as long as they understand that it comes with consequences, as everything does, they are the authors of their life. And then the last one is sisterhood. Which you will see with your— you literally have a sisterhood.

Yeah, hopefully they create a healthy sisterhood.

Yeah, so because the toxic patriarchy has divided and ruled, women compete with each other. We want to—

Because of men, women compete?

Well, because of the system. Okay. The system has taken so much power away from us and taken all the power into the male Now we are left scrambling, and we've lost connectivity, right? So we want to be the chosen, we want to be the best, we want to be picked. And we are, we're seeing each other as a threat. This is inbuilt in the post-industrial era. And you, we have to teach us girls that their greatest allies are not the lover, the male lover, not the male and I'm not saying anti-male, but just become more pro-female. You have sisters and cultivating that is important. So how the mother does that, how the mother has friends, how the father reveres women and nurtures the sisterhood.

Not in a sexual way.

No, no, no, no, no. As connections. Yeah. Is going to be vital for your children. Women and men, And girls and daughters need our sisters.

Sisterhood, yeah, without competition.

And men need, and boys need their brotherhood. And boys don't have their brotherhood. Let me tell you a quick story about boys. I had a group of mothers come to me. It fascinated me to no end. Their sons were between 12 and 14. The boys were disappearing at night, sneaking out of the house together. Yeah, together and forming like a club and roaming the streets. Kind of cool. In the subway, right?

As long as they're not doing something illegal, but yeah.

Creating their own band. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Of soldiers, their brotherhood. And the mothers were losing it. I think it's cool. And most, but because it was dangerous, it was in subways, you know, and the mothers were mostly single mothers. Oh yeah. And because these boys were not being initiated by a brotherhood of elderly men, of brothers, of fathers, of uncles, they were left to find it for themselves.

I see what you're saying.

And this is the formation of gangs and cults. Boys need strong men in front of them to transmit the wisdom of initiation.

What happens if a single mom raises boys and they don't have a father figure in their house, where for whatever reason they don't have a father figure and they only have a single mom that they haven't introduced to an uncle or a brother or some other father figure of some good intention, what happens to the young boy typically?

Yeah, so what I've seen in my— the cases I've worked with are several things, very important. And again, parents are not going to like what I'm saying, but it's kind of a pattern. The single mother usually comes with her own grief and trauma at the hands of male anger and violence. Yes. She's been betrayed, she's been hurt, she's been abandoned, she's bitter, she's weathered many storms of male violence and anger, right? 1 in 5 girls are sexually molested by a male by the age of 12. Wow. Yeah, I was many times by the age of 12. Wow. So we're carrying legacies in our body, right? Yes. We raise these sons, at some level, I have it toward my daughter. There is a projection, and I project onto my wild boy who's just being a boy. He's goofy, he's silly, maybe he's masturbating in bed. He doesn't know, he doesn't know what to do with his body, and no one is showing him. She's seeing this as a threat. I've seen so many single mothers clamp boys' energy and project without meaning So much rage, like, you will not talk to me like that. You will not be one more male who perpetrates me. Now, that boy is just being a boy and needs containment and needs help to channel his wild physical self. He doesn't need punishment, scorn, and then the mother disconnects. Shame. Shame. So that's a common thing. Then that mother is at a loss. She's like, what do I do with this boy? You know, he's masturbating every day. I don't know how to talk to him. I don't know what's going on with him. He's looking at porn. He's looking at girls. He's touching my breasts. Whatever it is, all this sexual energy she's threatened by, and it's not her place. She doesn't know how to talk to him. Then she's exhausted. She's tired. And this energy is— and she's raising him in a city and no dual income, and she's exhausted. He's exhausted, she's exhausted, they're clashing. I then tell those mothers, I'm so sorry, you have a lot of power and you're doing amazing and your presence is important, but you need help. So enroll in the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers and Big Sisters, find him a big brother, find him an uncle who is wise and willing to initiate him, who can talk to him about his wet dreams and his his body and what to do with all these impulses, find help, you know. And that's why male elderly males would— and Scott Galloway talks about this— like adopt a boy, because boys are growing up uninitiated, unmentored. And unmentored boys will get mentored by porn and the manosphere. And it's not the mother's fault. And I don't mean to make it so gendered, but You know, can you talk to a girl about her menstruation? You can't because you've not been through that. So in the same way, and of course mothers are doing an amazing job, but there's some things a boy will respond to differently from his own biological.

What is the differences between an initiation from boyhood to manhood and an initiation from girlhood to womanhood?

Yeah, both of them are marked by a surge of hormones, which means it feels out of control. It feels scary for the boy and the girl. The girl is growing breasts. She feels, you know, she's got all this weight on her. She's curvy. She's getting all this attention. I remember at 11 in India, you know, all this attention. And I'm like, I'm just a little girl. And my mother didn't fully know how to initiate me. Right? When I got my first period, I thought I was dying, right? I thought like either I had diarrhea attack with blood or I'm dying because no one told me. No one told you? No, because I was too young. I mean, no excuse. I prepared my daughter from the age of 7 because I'm like, I'm taking no chance. No, but there's no harm because we don't know. Puberty is younger and younger. So I felt out of control. I felt embarrassed. I wanted to tape my breasts. I was growing too fast, too sexy, too this, too much attention. Nobody gave me the words, even though my mother was so lovely. She didn't give me the words for it. You're gonna get male attention. You will be groped by men after— every day I got groped. Nobody talked to me about it. I figured it out myself and protected myself. I never spoke about it to anybody. Yeah, every day it was a battle on the streets of India. Yes, groped, pushed, pulled, pinched. Most Indian women are. I just learned to survive. But I was prey, and I wish somebody had told me to protect myself. To kick, scream, fight. So I taught my daughter young, you will kick, you will bite, you will scream, you will punish, you will do anything. You're not to be a good girl. So most girls are raised as good girls. So that's another thing you can teach your daughter.

Now, what should I say?

You don't want a good girl. —whatever, what? Stay away from that word.

Don't say you're being a good girl? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Never say that? No, no, no, no, no, no. You're such a good girl? No, don't say that. No, no, no, no, no, no.

What should I say instead? Just go, I want you to follow your heart. I don't want you to follow me. Follow your heart.

What if they wanna follow me?

Yeah, yeah, but is it what you want? Okay. You're always taking her back to her voice because that's authenticity. You don't want, of course we all want the good girl and the good boy, but you try, you try, especially for the girl. Yeah. Because I grew up and most women, I'm sure you're, my wife too, grew up with the mantle of good girl syndrome and being the parentified daughter. I handled everybody's emotions in my family. I was the emotional cheerleader, the emotional blanket, the emotional janitor. I was my, anything wrong, I was the one. And most empathic, caring girls. So you don't want to blame that.

How should I communicate if they do an action that I think is a good action? What do I respond to that action?

That was so kind of you. 'But are you sure you're being kind to yourself too?' Or, 'That was so kind. I would like to do something kind for you.' So we want kindness, but we don't want blanket compliance, obedience, civility.

And what if it's around performance? Like, 'Oh, you did a good job of playing that song or singing that or dancing.' Like, how do you respond or communicate? Is it not around the job? Is it more around the effort?

Yeah, how did it feel for you? Wow, you know, like I've learned to become intentional about saying even small things like, I am proud of you. I slip up, but I try to. Of course. To like, wow, that seems really hard to do. Like, was it hard? Or that's impressive.

How did you feel about it?

How did you feel about it? Try to not. Yeah, of course. Right? But also when you don't attach to your own accolades and you're an ordinary human being at home, they'll realize that ordinary is okay. Yeah, of course. Right? If you're walking around narcissistically attached to your image, they'll pick up on that. If you have pictures of you everywhere, Lewis the Great, then they're going to pick up on that.

I'm gonna take my photos down. No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah, all winning all your trophies. Yeah, yeah. Maybe you wanna put them away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

So the good girl syndrome, the parentified daughter, these These things all create in our daughters that sense of disconnection, that they won't stay true to themselves. Really? Yeah, because they learn they like the compliment more. My dad gets really happy when I'm extra nice and I give up my food for the sister. I get extra praise, right? So you have to be careful.

Yeah, 'cause then they would abandon themselves from what they really want. Or what they really wanted to say or do.

Right. So you have to always try to keep them on track.

So I guess it's teaching them how to be of service to other people and how to also contribute to society or your friends, your family, and be a giver, but not overgive to get attention from someone. Right.

Like every day, how did you serve your friends? But then you ask, how did you serve you? What is one thing you did for yourself today? That made you and only you, what did you do for you? That's cool. Right? And then what did you do for others, right? Yeah, that's cool. So we forget that part because we're so scared to create selfish children, but we then mistake that for a lack of sovereignty. We are trying to create sovereign children who understand that they have a place at the table, especially girls, right? Girls need different messaging because we have been oppressed by the patriarchy so much that we feel unworthy unless we have the approval. Of men? Mostly men, but of the system. Oh, really? Yeah. And the system is manipulating us for our image. One of the most money-making industries is the cosmetic industry. It's a bazillion-dollar industry.

I try to remind my wife, like, I like her without makeup. Makeup. Yeah. Almost every day. Yeah. I'm like, I think you look better without makeup. Yeah. And it's true. I like— when I first met her, she didn't have makeup on and I was like, stay like this always. I like this look, you know? Wow. And I'm not saying you can't have it. And she's an actress, so she wears makeup at times. But I, I really love natural beauty and I love the idea of not putting your value in appearance only. I'm not saying you can't look good every day and you can have makeup, but make sure you don't have to have that to love and accept yourself. I think it's important.

But just you saying that is so freeing for her because we've been given the image that we need to like turn it up, you know, at all times, otherwise we will lose our partner's attraction.

So interesting you say that because I posted a video this last weekend where I showed myself and Martha, you know, like in the morning walking outside, and she wasn't wearing makeup. It was for like a half, like a second maybe, or showed her. And some woman left a comment. I saw this in the comments. Some woman said, I'm amazed that she's not wearing makeup, where for 25 years of my marriage, I'd never let my husband see me without makeup. And I thought to myself, that seems exhausting. Yeah, that sounds exhausting. I guess I see like, okay, you're trying to look good for your husband. And yeah, but it sounds exhausting for the woman to have to always be wearing makeup to feel she's turned on for the man or something.

Yeah, you will have the biggest shock watching your daughters fall into the market.

I don't want them to wear that stuff.

You're going to have to understand when they fall into it because the tsunami of pressure a girl feels as young as 7 and 8 to belong, and because her sense of self comes from validation and approval, she will be in the system and used by the system to make money— To buy products? Yeah, because it's a multi-bazillion-dollar industry.

How do I raise my daughters then to not buy into the system of makeup and beauty products?

Well, a large part is how you are with your wife. So you telling her in front of them, no, no, no, don't put the lipstick. You look so much better without it. Right? And she living that way, ordinary at home, and going out feeling proud of herself and reserving the real dress up for special.

Yeah, work or like whatever, yeah.

Yes, and not letting her children fall into the designer brands and the expensive clothes and keeping it toned down will at least delay it. It will not appease it. We all have fallen into it, me included till today, but I can watch it, I can pick what I want from it and play with it. But it'll happen. It's an avalanche coming at your daughters about how she looks. How she looks will be more important to her, or how others perceive her will be more important to her than how she perceives herself and her intelligence, her talents, her success, her achievements. All of them will be drowned under the noise of how others perceive how she looks. Really?

Yes.

Gosh, this seems exhausting. But we have to have sensitivity for it. And compassion for it and combat it. Combat it with the antidotal message, which really comes from the mother and how the father treats the mother. Really? In terms of beauty and appearance. So if you are like, you know, your wife dresses up and she's all hot and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let me take a picture. Now you've put so much focus on that.

But if she's in sweats, you're like ignoring her. But imagine if you said, oh, I love you like this. Yeah. This is even better.

Yes, I like that you haven't cared about your hair. I like that you're so brave to be natural beauty. If the words natural beauty are used in your house over and over and over again, you're gonna do good.

That's what I've been doing already. So I already do that.

That's an amazing message, natural beauty. I want your natural self. So when your daughter gets ready for a dance competition and she gets all with glitter and baubles, and you can say, wow, that's really not even half as good as your natural beauty. Beauty instead of like, oh, you look so cute. Yeah, trying to be an adult, you know, and oversexualized. No, you know, look at these competitions, these Toddlers and Tiaras, look at these pageants, look at these dance competitions. I mean, no knock, but it's an oversexualization of our girls. Why do they need to dress up like that? Yeah, in these cute little outfits. It's an industry, it's commercial. So you will see You know, I call it the parental industrial complex. You are now part of it. Things that will come to your children in the name of good parenting, you will begin feeling guilty because everyone in the neighborhood has signed up for the pageant and everyone in the neighborhood is going for the competition. And you're just— you're like, wow, childhood is the biggest money racketeering business because they know that the parent is so vulnerable because you have such a big ego. They know we have such a big ego. So they're like, "Oh, let me start putting out studies that children who don't play 14 languages are not gonna get into an Ivy League." Now all the parents are scrambling, "Oh my God, they only know 3 languages or 14 instruments," or, "Go study abroad," right? Look at the application process to an Ivy League. You have to do pre, pre, pre, pre-college courses called AP courses in 8th grade, money-making. Right? You have to go and volunteer somewhere. Money-making. So everyone's making money off the parent's vulnerability that my kid will be left behind. So they play right into your ego because you don't want a kid to be left behind. You don't want an ordinary kid. Remember, we didn't have a kit for an ordinary kid. Yeah, yeah. So from that moment on, you and your child are in the pipeline of the biggest money-racketing business ever.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

And then when your child comes to you and says at 12, all my friends are having a Sephora party and the birthday is at Sephora. And give me your credit card.

Give me your credit card, daddy, please.

I'll be the only one. Everyone is going.

I was coming here to be inspired, but I feel like doomed now. You feel deflated.

That's why you have to read these books because I've given you the antidote. Because it is dismal. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, but I don't Don't just create the anxiety. I've given you some tools, but you have to apply the tools. But if you don't know the avalanche coming, how will you prepare?

You got to prepare for it. I mean, if you were having kids again today, you know, and new kids were coming into the world today, I, I know what I would do. What would you do? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Would you take— would you put them in public school, private school, homeschool? Would you like What would be the path for the next 16 years?

Well, first, if I had kids again, see, okay, okay.

Let's say you have kids, yes.

Yeah, I had amnesia and I had kids again.

You have kids born today, what do you do?

Yeah, the ideal setup, okay? Ideally, I will try to homeschool. Uh-huh. I will try to live in a community. I will try to live near as many conscious parents. I will join Dr. Shefali's Conscious Institute and read all her books. I will, not give in to a phone till they are 21, which is insane. So I know that, but at least till they're older and bigger than me and they bully me out of it. I will create more simplicity in my own life so I am more present. I will not be afraid to create boundaries and create friction and allow them to struggle. I will not project my insecurities of greatness and wanting them to belong. I will be braver in allowing them to be against the matrix. I will be badass in teaching them to fight the system. I'd be more aware of how the system manipulates me. I wasn't aware, you know, So when my daughter got the phone from me at 13, that was the first generation of children. We were the first guinea pig parents. I was like, here, take it. I thought I'm giving her candy. I did not know I was giving her crack. Wow. I was fooled. I was innocent.

I was gullible. All of her friends had a phone.

I thought I was a good parent. I thought I was opening her to the world. How bad could it be?

Once you give it for a year, it's almost impossible to take it away.

And back then it wasn't sophisticated. But now it is. So we didn't know.

We still knew, like, social media wasn't as addictive.

Now it's like— Yeah. And I will understand that raising a child today takes learning the skills. I will not presume just because I meditate or just because I've taken a few psychology courses, I'm a conscious parent. I will have the humility to learn conscious parenting. I will learn it. I will go to school. I will get a degree in in conscious parenting. I mean, it is a skill. I wish I could be a parent today all over with the skills I now have. I didn't have the skills because no one was teaching this as a skill-based mandate. For all parents. For all parents. Think about it, Lewis. You could become a parent to 2 or 3. Nobody would stop you. No one checks on your mental health. No license, no aftercare supervision. You have no supervision. No one's coming to check in on you.

To make sure you're doing a good job.

No one has asked you if you have drugs in the house. No one has asked you, have you taken a parenting course? How are you allowed to have a child? When my dog groomer has a license for 6 months to cut nails and cut hair.

We don't have a license to be a parent. Nothing.

There needs to be a mandate. There should be a course. A mandatory course. Why isn't there? Yes. Children should not be released by the doctor back home until they do a course. I'm not saying don't have children. You can get pregnant because people will say it's my body. But then I will not release this child to you until I know you are— Yeah, sure, you're responsible for it. But then the state needs to take over the children because all of them will stay with the state. Wow. And the state is no better. I'm just saying.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. In a perfect world, having some type of education or training, because no one's trained to be a parent unless you've modeled it from your parents. But then even then, you don't have to do it.

But can I just say something? Look at the state of our world that we're not thinking about this. No. We're not thinking about this because somewhere in our holy books, and because it's biological, we have preordained it to a destiny. Like, it's my destiny to be a parent, so no one can tell me. That is true, but we're not living with our tribes anymore where the elders could help us. I'm not living with my auntie who could tell me, listen, I know, back, you go away, I'll handle the toddler. I'll watch them. I know how to manage a toddler. I've done this. This. Now the poor 25-year-old or 35-year-old is alone with the twins, no skills, harried, exhausted, digitally overwhelmed, no one to help them. And the state or the government has not helped parents because children are not valued. Children are not protected, Lewis Howes Howes. Children are a business. They're commodified by the parent and by culture. Nobody treats sovereignty of the child as something real. I mean, you are seeing with all what's come out in the world of late where children are trafficked. And I'm sorry to talk about it, but it must be talked about. Of course. Children are being trafficked. Millions of kids. Millions, right now. Yes. There are children being trafficked. Why? Because they're vulnerable. Vulnerable to whom? To the adult ego. And if we parents don't cry about it, Why would the moneymakers cry about it? So we have to do it, but in our own home, we treat our children as objects, as puppets. Oh my gosh. Right? The biggest sexual abuse happens in the home. But even forget sexual abuse, even just kissing grandma, I'm like, I'll just be happy if you can check that ego. Don't even force your kid to kiss grandma. I'm just talking about that level. Or don't push your kid to do, something against their intrinsic—

What feels good, what feels right. Like, ah, I don't wanna do that.

Right, but we bypass that and we do it because we were bypassed. So we live in a culture of constant bypassing of the authentic self and the sovereign self. So that's why I work with parents, because if the parent is not awakened, there's no chance in hell they will raise awakened children. Children. There's no chance. But we need to not only talk about our own children, we need to talk about children systemically. What is happening in our world and how we are— the toxic patriarchy, with the help of women, are sacrificing children. Those children are mother— children of mothers who gave them away too. Oh my gosh. Yeah, we need to advocate for children. Yes. So the reason I wrote books 8 and 9 on parenting is because we need to wake up and do differently for our children.

Well, this is coming at the perfect time for me, and I want everyone to get your books, Raising Conscious Daughters, Raising Conscious Sons. And you also have a program online. If they go to drshafali.com, you'll have information on Raising Conscious Daughters and Sons where they can get more training courses, curriculum, which should be mandatory in my mind, or at least highly encouraged to go through and at least get the book for yourself, get it for a friend. If you have new parents in your life, friends in your life, give them a copy as well. It'd be a great gift. I can't think of a greater investment you can give in yourself as a parent to learn how to continue to heal to invest in the relationship you have with your spouse and to invest in the relationship you're building with your kids. And so you're teaching all that in your books, raising—

And my podcast, if parents want to tune in, I work with parents every episode. So parents come with real life struggles and I help them. I try to stay away from the celebrity angle and just work with real average problems that parents suffer from. And I give them free advice. So that's for free, right? I have so many courses for free. I created an institute to train conscious parents because there is no school we can go to. So like you said, there is no greater investment.

Yes. The institute, what is that? Is it an online program?

Yes, it's a 5-month journey I've created that teaches you to become a conscious parent and then help other parents. So I have a global movement now of over 1,500 coaches all over the world who are doing this work. Wow. Not only in their own lives, and breaking generational patterns, but also teaching other parents and taking this message out into the world. That's cool.

I recommend that. Where can people get that?

Just Dr. Shefali.com? All on my website, yes.

Podcasts, courses, the books. Make sure you guys get a few copies. Social media, you're everywhere, Dr. Shefali as well. Here's a question for you. I've asked you, you've been on this your third time on the show, right? And I've asked you this question before about the three truths. I'm curious if you could share the three truths around parenting Parenting. With all your work and courses and institutes and podcasts, if you could only share 3 truths around how to be the best or the most conscious parent possible, what would those 3 truths be around parenting? What would those 3 things be?

That your children are not your canvas, your puppet, your trinket, your trophy, your ambassador, your representation. Your children are here to live their own destiny as sovereign beings, and you are lucky that you get to usher them, number one. Number two, the best parenting and the best parent you can be is when you parent yourself. So conscious parenting is parenting yourself. So you don't put your garbage on your children. That's right. So you have to take that very seriously. If you choose to become a parent, parent, make sure you know how to parent yourself. So go to courses, learn how to parent yourself because that's who you need to first parent. And then the third thing is, do not use your children to fulfill your ideals of greatness. You have to find that within yourself. Those are beautiful.

And speaking of kind of parenting yourself, how important is it for every adult to heal their inner child?

It is the most important thing you can do. Your inner child is in the driver's seat. I see 90% of unscripted time. Really? So the inner child is everywhere, and understanding your inner child, but not just your inner child, the inner child is the driver, but the one who's actually steering the ship is your ego, right? So your ego is how it takes care of the inner child. Wow. So if I'm scared today to come to Lewis Howes' podcast, and my inner child is like, oh my God, I'm gonna fail, I don't know anything, My ego could come, I'm just giving examples, could come dressed like, I don't know, like a peacock, a peahen, beautiful, because I'm covering up that insecurity. My ego could give you $10,000 so you like me more, and a big cake, and I could compliment you so you could like me. My ego could say to your assistant, you know, let me do these things for you and become a pleaser and a fixer for her so she can like me, so I can have a better, So the ego will do all these strategies to help my inner child, but that's happening all day long to the point that it's a set system now. Our ego is in place. The ego knows how to do it. The ego is always protecting the inner child. So the real work is not so much the ego. The real work is the pain of that little girl or boy who needs success to feel good or needs validation to feel good. And that's the basis of all this work.

For those listening or watching who have their parents still alive, who feel like they didn't have, who are still, they feel like they're emotionally unavailable or they're immature or they're whatever. How can adults who have parents navigate this? Yes.

I have a whole theory. So first, I totally validate validate the pain adults have felt in their childhood. This is the basis of my work. There is pain. I validate you. However, I do say that after the age of 18, and then I say, okay, 32, I give you another 12 years. You have to take accountability for your life and take that power away of waiting for your parent to heal, or continued resentment. Now, there's this whole big field of, you know, separation from the parents and creating that line. I support that if it's done in peace. If you're going to separate, but you're still in turmoil and bubbling and still carrying resentment, It's not good. Good, you have physical space, but you haven't yet done the work. You haven't healed. You haven't healed. And if you stay, but you're still bubbling and resent, it doesn't— You haven't healed. So the physical is just a proxy for the first step. Ultimately, we all had a rough hand in some way in childhood. Yes. It's a crapshoot. Somebody grew up with the fundamentalist, somebody grew up with the sexual abuser. I'm not minimizing it. It's tough.

Everyone had some type of trauma. Trauma.

Yes, some had big T. So yes, I give compassion, but at some point in life, you got to release your parents from your own subjugation. You are the one subjugating yourself by thinking that they should. Well, they didn't because they didn't have the skills. They were traumatized. They were empty. They were void. So I'm so sorry that you experienced that. Now let's heal that, but you have to learn to re-parent yourself. Yes. And then you take the power back. And then actually what I've seen is you have great compassion. Yeah. For your perpetrator. Doesn't mean you have to talk to them. Doesn't mean you have to allow them back in your life. But you begin to understand with perspective that they came from pain. This is powerful.

I'm really grateful for you, Dr. Shefali, because it's coming at a time where I feel like I need to hear this information even more. And so I'm excited to dive in deeper in the books. I want everyone to get a copy get a few of your friends. And, um, it's just a great reminder that especially if you're a parent to new kids, what's coming is scary if you're not prepared for it. Yeah. And I don't think it needs to be scary if you follow kind of this blueprint and what you talk about in your books. I think you can have an incredibly fun, free life with your kids. With this structure in mind. But if you don't have this, it's gonna be extremely scary.

It's gonna be hard. So the books are on presale. And if you go to my website, I'm doing two masterclasses where I train you in the content. So I encourage people, if they order the books, they can join the masterclass. For free. Masterclass. For free.

It's amazing. dashshafali.com for that. You'll see it on the website right there. So get the books on Amazon or wherever you wanna get your book, preorder it, and then you can go there for the masterclass. Final question, Dr. Shefali, what's your definition of being a great parent?

Being a humble parent and knowing that I am never going to be perfect, and that is okay.

Really? Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

Powerful. Our job is not to make our kid happy. That is so important and so countercultural.

Why is our job not to make our kids happy?

Because when we focus on making our kids happy, we actually start to make them fearful and less tolerant of all of the other emotions.