The 6 SNEAKY SECRETS You Can Use To WIN ANY EXCHANGE |Chris Voss & Lewis Howes

And correction is an addiction. Might as well be one of the seven deadly sins.

So you don't have to be aggressive.

To get what you want.

To get what you want.

The last impression is a lasting impression. No matter what.

Everything in life is a negotiation. And in this video, former FBI negotiator.

Chris Voss breaks down the secrets to getting anything you want in business and life.

My job to get on the phone was to be the immovable nice guy. And the nicer you are, the more movable you could be. Forgive me for picking on Mr. Donald Trump right now, but the style of being, you can be very aggressive or very assertive without being aggressive. And his style is he wants to yell at people, he wants to intimidate his way in. You don't have to give up that much assertion. You just. You don't want to be that mean. You don't want to be that hard on people.

For example. What do you mean? Like, how?

Well, you know, we're in la, There's a great guy here in town. His name is Tom Girardi, voted top trial attorney in California several years in a row by the Bar Association. He gets voted top trial attorney so many times that when they put it on the front page, they say, again. So he comes in and he's a guest of my class at usc. And he stepped. And I know he's a top trial attorney, but I don't know his style. I figure he's going to be an attack dog, because I spent so much time in New York, you know, I used to attack dog attorneys. And Tom walks into the class and he says, you know, the key to negotiations is being nice and gentle. Now, what Tom does by being nice is get you to drop your guard. And Tom is an immovable, unrelenting opponent, and that's why he's so successful. And he's ridiculously nice about it. Like, he smiles and he chats with people, and he always talks about how we'll collaborate with each other in the future. You get into an argument with him, and immediately he'll bend it, where he's talking with you about how you and I are going to be successful together 10 years from now or in the future, which is the same thing a hostage negotiator does. Like, if you're barricading a bank, I'm going to say my first goal is to get you out of there alive. Well, I picked a point in the future that we can collaborate on. Tom Girardi does this instinctively, and he's just super nice about it. I mean, like, you either you're going to cooperate with him because you like him so much he's never going to let up on you, or more than likely you're going to say something accidentally and he gets people saying stuff accidentally. And then he doesn't jump on you if you say something accidentally. He lets you say so many things accidentally.

What do you mean actually?

Well, like, you know, he loves to get people on uncovered emails that they never should have written. Like, if you, if you send Tom an email saying, tom, let's go have lunch together, he will not email you back saying, okay, because he doesn't put anything in emails. Because that's a downfall of almost every single lawsuit. Somebody who's done something wrong is going to put it in an email. And Tom knows if he's nice to the other side long enough, he's going to figure out where those emails are. So. And that's what people do all the time. You know, lawsuits are uncovered. People get into trouble with what they put in emails. When they say, hey, they send an email to somebody else, they say, hey, you know, we shouldn't be doing this. And a person sends an email back saying like, yeah, it's okay, nobody's ever going to find out. Oh my gosh, in today's day and age, people put stuff in emails. And so Tom knows he's just relentlessly nice, relentless and the most charming guy you ever met in your life. So you don't have to be aggressive. Secret to gaining the upper hand in a negotiation is giving the other side the illusion of control. Now I'm coming at you as a very control oriented negotiator. As soon as you don't struggle with me over control, you actually begin to gain an advantage because then you feel.

Like you're in control and you don't have to try to gain it anymore.

Right? Right. I'm more than likely going to start dropping my. If I'm a control freak guy, if I want to talk all the time, I'm a control freak guy. Control freak negotiators who want to talk all the time, they feel out of control when they're not talking. So you want to get them to the point where they don't talk, but they don't talk because they're relaxed, not because they're trying to seize control. So you did a real nice job with that. Now the only thing, another thing that we teach is, see, you're not going to give me a car. And you try to make it sound like you were going to yeah. Now I teach how to say no. And then you want to feel other ways of saying. Because the real answer to that, just like at the very beginning of my book, you're supposed to look at me say, how am I supposed to do that?

So points it back to a question, right?

A how question.

An open ended question.

Well, not just open ended. How. How is the key to life. Yes. Is nothing without how. So you never find. And. And you could also start talking about how without talking about yes.

So just say what I even say.

You could say, how would I do that?

Would I say, I'd love to get you what you need? How would I do that?

Just how would I do that?

How would I do that? So give them the control to figure out the solution.

Right, right, right. How am I supposed to get you the car in that time frame? Because that's what you're trying to express. There actually is a time problem here, right.

In 60 seconds, how am I supposed to get you a car?

Right, right. That's different than we can get a car. We just need 60 more seconds.

We need more time. Yeah, yeah, right.

Because now I think you're ducking me. Okay, but if you, instead you say, like, how am I? You know, of course the cars are out here right away. But first of all, I got to tell everybody what we're going to do. I don't need anybody to get surprised. Talk through the details of how this is going to get done. In the meantime, what got you here in the first place, how do you find yourself into this kind of a situation? How do I make sure I get you out of there alive? The succession of how questions. How am I supposed to promise to get you a car if I don't know that she's going to come out alive? You take what you want and make it the path to what I want. You know, how am I supposed to get you in here if it doesn't benefit me also?

Right?

So as soon as in any negotiation what I want is now a means of getting what you want, then that changes the dynamic right away.

So how do you deal in a negotiation with the kind of person who has to win, who has to get everything they want? They're very controlling Alpha, and it's their way or no way.

Well, getting everything they want is actually third on their list. First of all, being in control is number one on their list, and that's emotionally satisfying. The second thing is the alpha type, which is, we refer to that as the assertive. The one thing that's more Important to them than actually getting what they want is being respected and making sure that you know everything about what they're coming from. And it's a classic guy who's working for his boss and said, you know what? My boss didn't do what I wanted him to do, but he heard me out or she heard me out. I can live with the direction we're going as long as I know that my boss knows my opinion. And so the assertive type of negotiator, it's really more important to them that they fail, felt that they conducted themselves respectably, that you respected them, and that you knew what they were coming from. And once they know those things, they'll actually soften up on what they want.

If they feel disrespected, they'll probably be more frustrated and angry and demanding.

Right, right, right, right. Because when they're very demanding, what they're really saying to you subtly is, I want you to know how important this is to me.

Right.

I want you to know how important I am.

So how do you meet that person? Just come to them with respect or with calm.

You know, you could say, look, you're impressive. You're phenomenal.

You've thought, it's all out. This is very.

Yeah. I mean, clearly, you know where you're coming from. You know what you want. I'm lucky to be talking to you at all.

Right.

I mean, if were I to sit down with Donald Trump, I would, in fact, be lucky to be in the same room with him. That'd be the first thing I'd say to him. I'd say, stroke his ego. You're an American icon. You're the symbol of American business, certainly in New York City. Yeah. Stroking their ego is not a bad thing. It's a version of empathy because that's how they see themselves. And the emotional recognition, like emotional currency, is not going to solve every deal. I just don't want to try to solve any deal with money when I could have solved it with emotional currency.

I'm saving my money with emotional empathy, currency, intelligence.

My money is too important to me to waste it when I could buy something with satisfaction.

Hey, it's Louis here, and I would love to connect directly with you. Text me the word YouTube to my number 614-350-3960. To receive weekly inspirational messages from me.

Doing a lot of coaching in the real estate industry with a gentleman named Steve. Steve Shaw, performance coach, cool guy, played in the Super Bowl. One of the people that have completely adopted our approach in Real estate. And this is just human dynamics. So this is not limited to real estate. Since she changed her approach about 10 months ago, she's gone out on 80% fewer appointments.

Real estate appointments.

Yes. Gone out 80% less. Have cut the same number of the deals that she did the year before. 80% less work, same number of deals, and her deals are much more profitable.

How is it the pre questionnaire?

Is it the.

There's a little bit of an elimination. How do you eliminate up front whether or not somebody is either accidentally on purpose, never going to do business with you and not burn the bridge?

How do you figure that out?

The. You know, the simplest way is if.

You were.

Buying my circus, if you were looking for negotiation training.

Yeah.

The first conversation, I'd say, Lewis, you know, Harvard's out there.

Wharton is out there.

Karris is out there. I got a lot of great competitors. I mean, these people that are really good. Why me? Why would you ever. I was a hostage to no shoe.

Yeah.

Why would you ever come to a hostage? To go, she had to learn how to negotiate. Now, you're gonna do one of two things. Because why triggers defensiveness in every human being on a planet. If I'd have said, louis, why'd you wear those shoes? Right. Your first thought is like, what's wrong with my shoes?

Yeah.

And you might say, because I like them. Because they're comfortable.

Right.

It's defensive.

You know, it's funny you say that, because my mom, I ask her why all the time, and she says to.

Me.

She Sundays to me, six months ago, I stopped answering why questions. I go, why? So. But it's interesting. So why? Why is why.

Globally, the word why always creates the defensiveness on anybody we ask it. Now, you may not always be accusing them when you use the word, but if I've done something wrong, you're going to say, why'd you do that?

Yeah.

That's everybody's first response when they think somebody. And so we hit it enough, we're always defensive. So. But if I say, why would you do business with me? If you're going to do it, you're going to defend it. You can say, well, hostage negotiation, you negotiate depression.

So you reversed psychology.

A little bit of reverse psychology. So either you're going to give me the reasons right away because I've just hit an emotional button in you. I've actually hit two. I've created defensiveness. And also it gives you. You think, I need to be corrected. And correction is an addiction. It might as well be One of the seven deadly sins. I can trick you. I can get you to tell me so much more if I. If you're correcting me. I get you to say things to me that you would never say to me otherwise.

Interesting.

I really like. I don't think I've ever thought of this.

So that's why we do what we do.

So I think I actually started doing this unintentionally, but I didn't know. I wasn't saying why necessarily, but I remember I was trying to. I had this high ticket mastermind called the Greatest Mastermind for the last three years. We actually just put it on pause for this year because I'm putting my effort and energy into other things. But I noticed the time it took from year one, I was doing all these phone calls to sell people to get into the Mastermind.

Right.

And it was a $35,000 price point and it worked fine because people applied, they were, you know, they showed interest and it worked. Year one, year two, I remember I said, I'm going to do no phone calls. I'm going to save my time because I was spending an hour on the phone selling people, but just making sure they're qualified because a lot of time, yeah, Year two, I said, I'm only doing emails and I'm gonna essentially get them to enroll themselves in it for me. And I started asking certain questions. I don't think I was saying, why me? When you go to this Mastermind and this coach and this, I wasn't saying that, but I was more asking them to enroll themselves in it for me. Say, you know, what's the purpose of you joining? In the last year, I did something similar. It was just like I had someone else on the phone say, why do you want to be a part of this With Louis specifically? Not. Not saying there's all these other options, but just going, why do you want to be a part of this? And then he would listen to them say why they wanted to be a part of it. But I don't think I had the perfect system, the way you talk about it. But I think that's. And I never had to jump on a phone call, I never had to do an email. And people just enrolled in a higher price point every year, which was powerful. Yeah, I like this approach to saying, you know, there's all these other options out there.

Why do you want to be? I mean, we never bad mouth our competition.

Right?

Right.

I say that great.

Why me?

Now the other response is going to be, now here's what you're really looking for. These are the people that you're not going to do business with. If somebody looks back, you say, well, it's up to you.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah. Yeah, you convince me. Yeah, well. And in point of fact, that's a defensive reaction on their part. Vision, drive, decision. If they. If you sit, somebody sits down with you and they don't have a vision of doing business with you in their head already, you can't put it there, really.

You can't inception them.

No. Well, no, you can. I need to diagnose whether or not there's anything in there. Yeah, well, if. If it is also, I mean, the return on my time, like, I get people to want to do business with me right now.

Yeah.

Because your most valuable commodity is your time. You were just talking about time.

What do you and I have?

It's exactly this. What's our commodity that's equal to Warren Buffett's?

Can't get it back.

Warren Buffett's got 24 hours. We got 24 hours. You can't get it back. So I could chase a deal for a long time, or I can take the deals to people that are ready to do business with me now, and there are enough people ready to do business with me now that the chase is probably a fool's errand right now. Coming to that is really hard. Very few people can do it early in a business career because they're so desperate for opportunity. To think it makes no sense to not chase every opportunity. And everybody that we've taught this to, who's been in business for any length of time, you can just see the light going over their head.

They're like, man, I've been hustling for years.

I didn't need to hustle those people. Yeah, they said I didn't need to hustle those people. Well, the only thing you needed is to develop a gut instinct for the people that aren't worth the hustle. You know, I guarantee you anybody attends your mastermind, no matter what you charge for it, it's going to be cheap money for them.

Right.

But if my mindset isn't there to start with, if I show up, I'm not going to pay attention. My mind's going to be in other places. I'll be wasting my time. Right.

So you don't sell those people anyways. You want to get the people that already have a vision of working with you, it sounds like.

Right.

Or a vision of working with you where they realize the visions align. And now this is a great collaboration.

Right.

But if the visions or the values, if the core values don't align, what.

I mean, what if there's someone who's just starting out in a business, they maybe don't have the reputation, they don't have the credibility yet. They don't have the audience size where people aren't coming to them, seeking them out yet. They're trying to make a name for himself. The new real estate agent who's never done a deal, the new videographer who's trying to get their first client. Like, how do you get them to say, well, why do you want to work with me if I've never had the experience?

Well, they're not going to be able to answer that question, so. But there's another way to do it. An attorney I hired recently on a very specific issue wrote a white paper on that topic and put it out there. So I already knew he knew what he was talking about. He put that out. He demonstrated an expertise in the area. He took the time to do the research, he took the time to review the issues. He took the time to write this white paper and he put it out there. It was an issue that we were struggling with internally. I had an intern at the time, he says, hey, I found this attorney who wrote this white paper. Like, perfect. Bang. We went in right away and I knew that he had it. So if you're just starting out.

Put.

An article on LinkedIn demonstrating what you know at that point in time, credibility.

Yeah.

You know, people, people want it. Well, yeah, people want to know if you understand and so you can be brand new in an industry and develop an understanding of some aspect of that industry in short order. LinkedIn is one of those great. It's a marketing tool. It's a marketing platform. Put a piece out on, on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

Pretty. Pretty good chance it's going to create some more back and forth. There's going to be a bunch of people that are going to be critical of you. Nine out of ten of them aren't going to know what they're talking about. But a couple of people who are on your side will add some comments that will help refine what you know. And now you've just demonstrated you're bringing value to the table the minute you walk in the room.

What are the characteristics that make a great negotiator in your field? And also, how do those translate into the business and relationship world just in general outside of.

Well, let the other side go first. You know, most people have. Are. So they're burning with their argument. Here's why you should make this deal. And they've got that memorized. And they're not going to listen to a word you say till they get it out. So trying to talk to them is really like trying to talk to a paranoid schizophrenic because they're rehearsing their speech in their head and their logic, and so they, they just. You just can't get through to them. So you let them go. You let them go first. And another guy, Ned Coletti, former GM of the Dodgers, friend of mine here in town, phenomenal negotiator. He's lectured at, in my class at USC also. You know, and Ned always likes to let the other side go first. You know, he did the Barry Bonds deal. He's done a ton of deals across the board. And Ned says, well, you know, in a two hour phone call, there's going to be 90 seconds of solid gold where my. The person I'm talking to based on changes that they made in their tone of voice and the adjectives that they used. I mean, he's got an instinct for it he couldn't identify. He used to always say, there's 90 seconds of sock gold. And I'd say, what is that? And we talk it through. And he says, well, yeah, it's going to be a change in the tone of voice. It's going to be a different kind of adjective. So Ned wants you to go first because he wants to know what it's going to take to make the deal. What they want, right? Yeah. What they're burning for or how they characterize what they have or what they're.

Not saying too, maybe.

Exactly. Right. What someone has failed to say is often a lot more important than what they have said, which is why I give it a little thought in advance. All right. What are they going to say if they've got this? So I actually like to look for more of what they haven't said, what's glaringly missing. And that's going to take. I'm going to need you to walk through it a couple of times before that jumps out of me.

Okay. Okay. Who are the most difficult people to work with then? Would you say it's the alpha people, or would you say it's the uncertain people, or what type of people are hard to work in negotiation with?

You know, you're talking about a little bit of a tight match, and that has a tendency. It's a little bit based on how bad I want to make the deal. Like I Don't like liars or I don't like. The most difficult people to work with in the long run are people who haven't thought anything through, which is as bad as a liar, only their heart's not in the wrong place.

They don't know what they want specifically.

Or they don't know how they're going to. They don't know how they're going to get this done. Which is again, we go over and over again. I go over and over again, yes is nothing without how. And the person who thinks like, yes, is going to make a deal. Well, yes is not going to make a deal because you got to have how. How are we going to put this together? And someone who doesn't think things through, a lot of times they're actually kind of dysfunctional on their own side. So they'll make promises they can't keep, and they have no idea they can't keep those promises. And so when they take your deal, you think you've done a deal with them. They take it back to their company. Their company goes like, no, we're not doing this. This is a stupid idea. We can't do this.

Sure.

And that happens a lot, I think, in a private sector. I've heard from a number of companies that fully 50% of the deals that they make that don't go through get killed internally because somebody cut a deal for them and they took it back to the company and the company says, no, that violates our terms and conditions. We can't deliver on that basis. So you're dealing with someone who just doesn't have a clue as to what's going on on their site. A lot of people like that.

When you're making a business deal, what do you recommend as the amount of time to consider the deal before saying, yes, let's do it, here's the deal points. Here's what you want. Here's what I want. Okay, should we sign it right away? Should we give it 24 hours? Should we take it to our team? Should it be a week? You know what's kind of a standard.

You think unless you've got something in line ahead of time. The company name is the Black Swan Group because we believe there's black swans in every negotiation, which is something you didn't know that as soon as you found out, it's going to change all the parameters.

The deal. Gotcha.

So you sit down at the table to find out the unknowns. And it's impossible to research all the unknowns. Plus a lot of the unknowns, I'll find them a lot faster if I just ask you. Right. And I could research for two weeks something that I may be able to get you to tell me about in 10 minutes.

For example. What do you mean something you'd want to ask?

I'm speaking for a long time client and they have another firm that I've been affiliated with coming doing a different block. When I found out they were doing that block, I could suddenly reach back through my network to find out what the, the competing partnership firm of mine is, what they're charging. Or I can just flat out, well, I need to get the information. A lot of information you got to get by not asking. You got to trigger it. The phrase ask good questions, it's really get good information. And a lot of times you won't tell me stuff if I ask, but if I act like I already know. Or there are other ways. Hostage negotiators trigger information without asking questions. And hostage negotiators get that information and make you feel good about giving it at the same time.

So give me an example, either in a hostage or a business deal, what that kind of trigger could be.

Well, it's going to be, it's going to be some sort of a statement. I might say, look, I'm sure my competing company's charging you twice as much as I am.

Oh. And then they'll tell you the answer.

They'll want to correct me, oh, actually.

No, it's the same. Or actually, you're getting a better deal.

Never underestimate the other side's desire to correct you. Wow. Because it makes people feel powerful and smart. You know, you're going to want to feel smarter than me. One of my clients is negotiating a deal for a commercial office building in South Carolina and it's almost 100% occupancy. It's in a mixed use, historic area. So it means the, the building can't be knocked down and nobody can build in it because it's a historic area. And so the building is basically impossible to replace. And it's 100% occupancy. Makes no sense to sell the building. So they're genuinely thinking, why is the seller selling? First of all, you can't ask why because why makes people defensive. If I look at you and I say, why did you wear a black shirt? Your instant thought is going to be like, do I got to defend the black shirt?

Why I'm doing it? Yeah, yeah.

So you need to find out why, but you can't ask why because it Makes people, definitely.

So what would you ask there?

Well, then again, you don't want to ask at all. Because if you're smarter, you change your why's to what's. And it's more likely they'll respond if you say, you know, what's making the seller want to sell. So you know what is causing them to do that?

Not why are they selling.

But instead, what my student did was he said, well, seems to me the seller's selling a cash cow because of a disbelief in the. The market fundamentals in the future of the building.

Now, let me correct you. This is why I'm doing it.

Exactly. And the other side would be like, no, no, no. They got a couple buildings that are underwater now. I can't imagine a real estate agent answering that question ever. I mean, this is highly confidential, proprietary, you know, my seller is desperate for money is what the answer was. But because it was a correction, and people love to correct, they'll correct you without thinking it through. It's an involuntary response, a desire to sound smarter than you and to be right and correct you, which is a burning desire in most people because it makes me feel smart, more powerful. And I'll seize every opportunity to feel smarter, more powerful. You at the table.

Gosh, it's like chess.

It's emotional chess.

Emotional chess. I love this.

How do you take criticism?

Not well.

I've never really been good at it until I wouldn't say I've mastered it. I think I've gotten better over the last six years. I started to really, like, say, okay, let me not react to this criticism. Like, they probably have some good intention. They're trying to tell me, and maybe there's some truth there. So let me start to listen to the feedback or the criticism and say, okay, how can I be better? Is there any truth in there that really resonates? Or are they coming from a place of anger of their own thing?

Criticism is mostly fear driven by the person criticizing.

Right?

Yeah, yeah. And. And you criticize that. In point of fact, you've been hurt, you've been disappointed, you've been frustrated. You know, there's a lot of saying, you know, never take advice from anybody. You wouldn't trade places with. Criticism is a form of advice, but you're afraid to tell people how to do stuff, so you just criticize what they do some people. And then they get. It becomes an addiction for some people. Criticism is not a great behavior. I know you've heard the phrase, nobody's doing better than you will ever criticize you. They'll mentor you.

Right.

So first of all, how do I take criticism? I got to take a step back, understand if somebody's coming at me with just a criticism, even if they ask permission to criticize, they got some, they got struggles that are worse than mine.

If they ask you to give you criticism, I'm.

I be, you know, they are an open wound at that point. So I'm not gonna, I'm gonna say, yeah, sure, go ahead.

Right. I'm gonna.

They've already told me they're probably coming from a difficulty, difficult place.

Gotcha, gotcha.

So what I'm going to try to do is just kind of take it easy on them and understand where they're coming from. A blog I'm a big fan of. Eric Barker writes this great blog, Barking.

Up the Wrong Tree.

That's great.

Eric told me one time, for every, every hater, there's going to be 10 people that are on your side. So when a critic comes up to me, I see that as there are 10 people. You indicating to me that I'm successful with nine other people. And I'm not going to get down on this person because it's very easy to get down on them because unfortunately they're coming from a negative place.

Yeah, gotcha. That's good to know. What's a role playing exercise that anyone can do with a friend that would make them a better negotiator?

Try to get whoever you're talking to to say the magic two words. That's right. Which means you got to summarize where they're coming from. If you, in, in any given interaction, if you got a point you want to make.

Yeah.

Before you make it your trigger, you're not allowed to make your point.

So give me an example. And you want the other person you're role playing with to say, that's right.

Okay. So you were telling me about critics.

Yeah.

You're a high profile guy. You're about helping other people, which means you get criticized a lot.

That's right.

And when you get criticized, I mean, you know, I wouldn't say you're empathic, although you are. I would say you're probably more compassionate. Those are two different things. Empathy is. You have to have empathy to be compassionate. But empathy is not compassion. Compassion is the next step. Empathy is a compassionate thing to do, genuinely understanding somebody. But there's a real fine line there. They're distinct things. And I think you have a tremendous amount of compassion for people. So you know that when someone criticizes you they're attacking you.

You.

But you also know that they've been hurt and they're struggling. So you want to know how to respond to them and have them better as a result of the interaction instead of coming back and making them feel worse. And you struggle with that because you're under attack and you try not to, try not to fire back at them, right?

Yeah, that's right. So you want to have a conversation with someone.

If you could summarize their point of view first summarize the other person's. Would you summarize the other what the other person struggling with in any type of deal making, in any type of.

Deal, business deal, relationship, buying coffee, upgrading, whatever it is.

Right, gotcha. Yeah. Then after that you can make your point.

Make your point or make your proposal or.

Yeah, or whatever.

So if you're trying to get an operator, if you're trying to get an upgrade on an airport, you know, on a plane or a hotel, right. Or trying to get a super sized.

Me for free, right.

You're trying to get some type of.

Upgrade for free, Right.

Would you do the same thing? Would you say, I know you're going through, it seems like it's been a long day for you.

Well, you can look at them, tell whether or not it's gonna be a long day. So right off the bat you say long day.

Right.

And then as soon as you get ready to make your ask, what's their initial instinctive response? The knee jerk reaction.

What's that gonna be when I make an ask?

Once you've made your ask, what's their. If somebody's trying to get something for free.

Yeah.

What's your typical knee jerk reaction?

This person's just trying to get something for free from me.

Right.

So.

And everyone does this or everyone.

There you go.

Everyone's doing this.

Yeah. So you walk up and you go like, hey, look man, I know I'm gonna seem like just another jerk who's trying to get something for free. Somebody who treats you like you were their servant. Oh man. Somebody who doesn't care about you could care less whether you live or die. They only care that you long you're alive long enough to make my coffee because that's what the other guy's thinking. How do you articulate what they're thinking? Especially the negative stuff about you? When you say that they're going to.

Be like, no, no, no, no.

But what you did was you just woke them up. You know, you, you woke, you snapped them out of the negative loop. That's in their head because the last guy come in and said, yeah, I want to, and I want it now. And I hate waiting in line. Starbucks.

Do you do this all the time? All day long? Are you constantly in the game of negotiation with people?

It's. It's that, you know, that I brush my teeth today just because I brushed them yesterday. You know, I genuinely. I got to keep my skills up because it's either stay even, decline, or get better. I want to keep my skills up. The mercenary in me does it because I got to keep my skills.

Skills up.

The missionary in me does it because I actually care about people. Yeah, I just assumed that you had a good day. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that you didn't. That my interaction with you didn't leave you worse that my interaction with you left you better. Everybody we encounter should be left better by the interaction.

How important is the intention? Before you walk up to the coffee shop, before you go to the hotel, before you get on the phone with the other business owner to make a deal, before you have a conversation with your partner about where you're going to dinner, do you set an intention first? Like walking into the hotel, you're like, this is what I'm gonna say. This is the result that I want to get out of this. This is the way I want to leave people feeling the intention.

Yeah.

The intention is, you know, I want you to have fun with the interaction.

The other person.

Yeah.

I want you to have fun.

If I. If I. If I'm playful, if I'm intending for you to have fun. You know, I'm in a department store.

Yeah.

I'm joking around with the guy behind the counter, and I go. I go, tell you what, you know what? How about if you give me the employee discount, right? Give me the employee discount. I'll say it like that. Give me an employee discount. The guy in the store says, if I give you the employee discount, going to have to pay for it myself.

Really?

And I go, I'll pay you back. I said it just like that.

He went.

And he started walking around asking people how he could key it in and get me the same discount without having to pay it himself. He walked around the store for 10 minutes.

Really?

I saw him walk up to a manager. As the manager shaking his head, he's.

Going to someone else.

And on his way back, another employee walked up to him on the side, whispered in his ear, and he went, okay. And he walked up, and I get 30% off.

Wow. But you didn't pay him back. It was Just like a playful.

I just, you know. Yeah, I just, I just, I just was being playful about it, just being silly about it.

And what's the best way to get an upgrade at a hotel for you?

All right, so slightly different take on the approach.

Yes.

My son does this all the time. My son Brandon runs my business. He's our best negotiator. He prides himself when we all come into a hotel. He's got to be in a better room than me. And I'm the boss.

That's hilarious.

And as far as I'm concerned, I'm paying the bills.

Yeah.

Of course, he got an upgrade in a hotel one. One time that I couldn't even get on the floor.

You need a special key. Yeah, key code.

Me and the other guys were going, hey, we'll come up to your room. He goes, no, no, I got. He goes, I gotta come get you. I said, no, we'll just come knock on your door. Goes, no, you can't even get on the floor I'm on. He paid less for his room than I paid for mine. I'm the boss. But he'll walk up to somebody and say, I'm getting ready to make your day the most difficult day you ever worked here. And he says, somebody works behind a counter at a hotel, I mean, God.

Knows what they've seen.

You know, have you got a head in the bag? Do you want to. Are you gonna have ritual sacrifice in a room? You know, what have you done? You've done. Because in a hotel they've seen every, every kind of sort of crazy thing you could imagine. And they just go, oh, God, what is it? He goes, I'm just gonna be another self centered person looking for a free upgrade. They're like, oh, my God, that's it.

That'S it, that's it. Oh, yeah.

And they, they, they're immediately through the roof. And they start checking it in and listening.

Hey, you know what?

I. Yeah, I tell you what, Let me give you this room. It's on exclusive floor. It's on a presidential suite. President ain't coming. So I'm gonna give you the president. I know the president ain't coming tonight. We're holding a suite for him just in case.

You can have it.

He's not gonna be here.

Wow.

I remember from our interview the last time, I think if my memory is right, you would say one of the strategies is leading with, like, being challenging in a certain way, or I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna be demanding a lot. Isn't that something that you talk well.

To a little bit?

Yeah.

You know, that way.

Right.

Hey, I'm gonna, If, if, if I know you're gonna react negatively to my ask, I will give you a preview that makes it worse. Look, worse than what? Then what it's going to be?

Yeah. So what do you call that, that framework?

For lack of a better term, it's emotional angle. Emotional anchoring.

Emotional anchoring.

You know, we, we don't do price anchoring, you know, but we'll do emotional anchoring. If you're not gonna like what I have to say, I'm gonna say, look, you're not gonna like this. Right.

That's what it is.

And then I'm gonna shut up because your amygdala is gonna kick into gear and you're gonna think that I'm gonna insult you. Your parentage, your family, your genealogy, everything. Because the amygdala is going to go into overdrive.

Wow.

So whatever I ask for after that is going to be relief. And I'm doing that also because I need to keep an eye on how you feel when we're done. Not as much how you feel at the start, but how you feel when we're done.

So you want someone to be. It's okay if they start off in a lower, energetic or negative attitude, as long as when you finish, they feel like, okay, it got better over time.

Yeah.

You feel good at the end. The last impression is a lasting impression.

Interesting.

And that's unavoidable. Yeah. It's what we refer to as a law of gravity. It doesn't, you know, we have gravity. We can't explain why gravity works, but you're still not going to step off the balcony because gravity's there.

Right.

The last impression is the lasting impression, no matter what. So I need to, more than anything else, make sure that the last impression is positive or at least feels collaborative.

Or you're a business partner with someone, or you've been in a long negotiation for six months with someone. Either one, you've been a business partner working together for a year or two, or you've been trying to find a deal with someone else for a year or two.

Right.

And it's taking too long.

Both actions have taken too long that haven't. You haven't been getting the results you want and you feel like you've been taken advantage of a little bit. Let's just say that. How do you. And it's going. It started off good and it's going the opposite way.

Right.

It's getting worse and worse. How do you finalize it so that it goes back to a high or a higher mark, leaving you feeling better and leaving the other person feeling better?

Or. Or you get out of it.

Yeah. Or you just get out of it. But you just say, okay, I'm done. Bye. I don't want to talk to you. How do you not burn a bridge if you're in that situation?

I'd probably say something to the effect of, look, you're not gonna like this.

So you start with the emotional anchoring.

Right.

Interesting.

This isn't working for me.

And I'm.

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't do it anymore. And my problem here has been that I like you. I've always liked you. And the stuff that we've done together successfully has been phenomenal. And I would like nothing better than at some point in time in the future for us to be able to get back to that. But for right now, in order to preserve the memories of the positive things we've done, I gotta be.

I'm out now. Wow.

How do I remember that? So every time I'm in a situation, I can say that same thing.

Well, it's a little bit of a sequence.

Yeah.

And the sequence is. We need to stop what we're doing right now. But if we're gonna stop what we're doing right now, what everybody thinks of is, where is this going in the future.

Future.

So I gotta. I gotta create a point in time for the future that we're both happy with.

So there's still a bridge there.

You know, there's still. There's still an opportunity for the future.

Yeah. Maybe it's a year. Maybe it's never gonna happen. But you keep it open.

I'm open to it. I want. And I'm finishing positively, but I am finishing.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Because the last words that I. The last two sentences, maybe even just the last sentence are gonna ruin ringing.

Your ears over and over and over and over.

Because that's what your brain is always going to go back to, the last impression. How do I make you feel at the end? I make you. I make. Make you feel valued. And you're going to appreciate the fact that I walked away without calling you names. But I walked away.

Right.

It's hard to do.

Yeah, it. Well, it's hard. Get your. Get your practice in.

You got to do practice. Yeah.

You know, you. You just. You work on a few times. Most of the time, what people have at the end is the battle for the last Word is when the last word is a cheap shot.

Right.

That's when people screw you to hang up.

Right. And I'm gonna call you back, just say screw you right back, and then I'm gonna hang up.

Yeah.

You know, there's a battle of the last words of problem, the last words of cheap shot. But when a last word is a positive thing, it's not a problem.

So always end on a positive. With positive words.

Right.

Even if you feel taken advantage of, even if they hurt you, even if they screwed you over or whatever, you should always try to end in a positive way.

Yeah.

Without question. Because if you're talking to them, then your goal was to resolve things and to have a great relationship. Now, you might say that at the very beginning of the interaction, but it's more important to say it at the end. You know, My goal was always to have a great relationship with you.

And.

If we can get out of this dynamic, that would be my goal again. But right now I'm out. But understand that at any point in time, when we could go back to working collaboratively, I'd love to do it.

Oh, that's good. Yeah.

And so usually what it is, is take. Take what you said at the beginning and at least say it again at the end.

That's good. Yeah, I like that. What is something that you did as a hostage negotiator with terrorists around the world that you use today in just common interactions? Is there something that you did at the height of, like, this intense conversation that you. You do on a daily basis?

Pretty much everything we've been talking about.

Yeah.

You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna make a verbal observation on. On how they're processing things. You know, it seems like.

It seems like.

It sounds like.

It feels like you'll see all these things.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the bread and butter of great hostage negotiations. Really?

Yeah.

It's having them be seen or heard.

Yeah.

Being understood.

You know, people are taking actions to make a point. What happens if you can make the point without taking the action?

They're taking actions to make a point.

Right.

And you're.

You're saying you don't need to take that action? Because I hear you.

Yeah. Let me see what happens. If I can. If I can. If you. And it makes no sense at all, but I'm going to take probably 90% of a terrorist agenda away just by making them feel hurt, making him or her feel heard. I'll deal with whatever I have to afterwards. But let's say I could only take away 10% of their agenda by making them feel hurt. What if I could only take away 1% of their actions by making them feel hurt? That's worth the investment to me. Let me see what's left over after they feel hurt.

Less fingers, they're cutting off, less people, they're blowing up, whatever.

Right?

Yeah. One way or another.

Yeah. What is. What's the best approach? Say I'm looking to buy a company, I'm looking to acquire something I really like this software, this tool, this agency. I want to buy them. What's the best approach? Without seemingly. Or thinking like, oh, if I come to them like I'm too needy, I really want them, then I'm giving them all the power.

Right.

What's the best approach of someone that wants to buy something?

Yeah. Completely counterintuitive. What are all their arguments for making you pay the high price? State them first. Because what that actually does is it leaves them with nothing to say.

So, eight Mile.

Very nice. Exactly right?

Eight Mile.

Yeah, we used to, we used to use that, that clip from 8 Mile all the time.

So good.

Articulate everything they got to say.

So for instance, if I'm an agency, you want to buy me, right.

My company.

What would you say if I'm like, my business is growing, we've got all this attention, we're helping people, clients with big results, where we're growing as fast as possible. And you're like, wow, this company's really growing. We got to get them now before they're too big. What would you. You call me up on the phone, do you write me an email? Do you, hey, I want to meet for coffee. What's the best approach in person? Email, phone, video conferencing. You could have it any way.

All right, I'd say, look, I'd probably say right off the bat, like, I'm completely blown away with what you're doing. You guys are phenomenal. You're on the upswing. You guys are killing it. I'm gonna seem like a cheapskate. I'm gonna seem like I'm trying to get something for nothing.

So emotional anchoring.

Yeah.

Is it a ridiculous idea for a to talk about you selling me your.

Company, getting something for nothing? Is that what he said too?

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Because I've started off with appreciation.

Yeah.

I've lowered your expectations of me. And see, the last thing that I did also was I did what we refer to as a no oriented question. Instead of saying, would you like to buy? Would you like me to. Would you like to talk to me about selling your company. I'd say, is it a ridiculous idea for us to talk about you selling me your company?

What if I say, yeah, it's kind of ridiculous and we're done?

I never had a shot to begin with. See, this is about keeping me out of deals that either I'm never going to make or I don't want to make.

So it saved you six months of your life, potentially in a two minute phone call.

Right.

But if they say, yeah, we're growing super fast, it'd be, it'd be hard for me to really want to sell right now. But, you know, if you made me a great offer, I'd be open.

Then I'd say, sounds to me like there's just no way that I'm gonna be able to ever make you happy.

Because I need a great offer.

Yeah. If you say something like that to me, what you're actually doing is trying to get a really high bid out of me to soothe your ego. You want to go back to the employees and say, you know What? We're worth $150 million. And I turned it down because in five years we're going to be worth $450 million. Wow. So that kind of, that kind of a question is you want to bid for me to make you feel good? You're not seriously gonna, by laying it out like that, you're not seriously gonna entertain selling.

What if you as a business owner were like, we really, we really need something like this. We need an agency like this to help us grow. What if you're in a position like, we gotta find an agency like this. If it's not this agency, someone close to it, in order to help us grow, would you say, okay, let me go look at the other options internally to yourself, or, or would you keep that one open so that you can potentially come back in six months if something happens?

Or.

Well, then the last thing I'm probably going to say is, how do I help you grow faster than you've got the means to get there on your own? You know, my guess is based on your rate of improvement, what would you say is a high, high multiple of how much you guys are going to grow? How are you gonna get there? We have to start talking about. Because now, and this is, this is a typical dilemma for a lot of companies that are buying other companies because the company wants to sell today, is more worried about today's price as opposed to the amount of money that they could be worth in the future. And they're leaving this future money on the table. Like, let's say your company's worth $9 million, but you had a buddy sell.

His company for 12, so you're not.

Taking less than 12. 12 for your company. Now it's worth nine. I can only buy it from eight. Yeah, but I can take you to 200 in three years.

So you got to show them the future potential as opposed to now.

The contrast, the fear of loss is our ultimate decision making tool. People, most of the time, will sacrifice the future because of the present, but what you need to do is not sacrifice the future over the present. So I'll say to you, so $2 million today is worth more to you than $130 million in three years.

Wow, that's good.

And then you go like, wait a minute, no, that doesn't make any sense.

So you need to reframe it for people.

Right.

Interesting.

Because people are almost always framed on the wrong thing.

Yeah.

Almost always framed on today as opposed to where could we be tomorrow?

My favorite way to say no, which I got, you know, the how question before, the favorite way to say no was, how am I supposed to do that? Just real calm deference. There's great power and deference. You know, that's. And that's what I did in kidnappings, bank robberies, everything. How am I supposed to do that?

What if they say, I don't care, figure it out or she's dead?

Well, then you know that you've pushed them as far as you can and that means you got to pivot to something else now. The end. And that's actually where you want to get to. Because a strategy of negotiation is find out you want to max every term if you can. And the only way to max that is to find out that I've hit you to the full limit without making you angry enough that you slam your hands down and walk away. Because even your reaction is shooting someone or you shoot someone, your reaction to this now is like, look, you got to do it or things are going to go bad. And it was, one of my students here in town is negotiating for, for a luxury client to rent a house in Hollywood Hills. And, you know, 20 grand a month was a rental.

They were trying to get the rental or they were trying to lease it.

Trying to get it.

And so the person said it's 20 grand a month.

Right. And it's from a very. Well, his client's extremely wealthy. So, you know, and you're negotiating a wealthy market. The other side always thinks you Got all the money in the world. And so the. He just said, how am I supposed to do that? And they said, okay, well. And they shifted the terms, and he cut the price, and he moved a bunch of other terms around. Then they negotiated for a while longer, and then he said again on the price, he says, how's my client supposed to pay that? And the realtor says, if your client wants a house, he's got to pay it. Bang, you got a deal. When the other side says, if you want it, you have to do it. Which will come usually after the second, third, third time that you said, how am I supposed to do that?

So you knock it down a little more on a car, real estate deal.

Whatever it is, now you've maxed that term. Now you move on to something else. So you make the deal. But you needed to know that you pushed them as far as you could have without them storming out, without them saying, chris Voss is not any fun to deal with. I would never do business with him again. How am I supposed to do that in a differential way? They still feel in control.

You're not saying, screw you. That's too much. Like, what, are you out of your mind?

And if you don't make the deal at that point, then what they say after the fact, they say, you know, I didn't make a deal, but I deal with them again. You know, they're all right to deal with.

Did they get the lease?

How much they get?

Yeah, they got it.

How much?

You know, they knocked it down to less than 20, and then they got some softness on some other terms.

Gotcha.

And then they cut the deal for the house.

There you go.

I wish I was paying 20 grand.

A month for a lot of money for us. 20 grand a month. Wow, that's a rich, rich student.

Yeah, well, usc, they get, you know, people that are involved in a lot of lucrative deals.

Yeah, yeah. So you're saying, what is the importance of empathy in a negotiation? What I'm hearing you say, it's extremely important. And that's why you feel like a woman would be a better negotiator in general. Because they have more empathy in general or.

Well, it's the shortest. Most people have confused sympathy with empathy.

Okay. What's the difference?

Empathy is. I can see you're upset. It's just identifying how you feel. Sympathy is like, wow, I feel bad for you.

Feeling sorry or bad for someone is sympathy.

Sympathy. It is. In fact, it doesn't help anybody. Like, I don't care if you feel bad. For me, right. I could care less.

So sympathy is not a good thing.

Sympathy is a weakness as a negotiator, as a negotiation.

Empathy is a good thing.

Empathy and tactical empathy because we've really taken it past just empathy in general. Like we've been doing this long enough that I know what I'm looking for before we sit down. I know that I need to find out the stuff that are negative emotions for you because I need to get them out of the way of the deal and I need to find out the stuff that are positive emotions for you because I want to reinforce that to make the deal. Deal. And I know that the negatives are going to be a bigger deal to you than the positives are.

So can you give me an example of this in a business deal?

Well, if I don't like doing business with Donald Trump at all, then if he's annoying me to the point where I get enough satisfaction keeping money out of his hands, I won't make that deal. Or if I'm in a business deal where the other side and I've thought about this like you annoy me so.

Much that I don't want you to.

Get anything that I'll take less money to keep you out.

Right. How would you eliminate something like that, that negative in the deal so that you could.

Well then say like if I think that you're negative towards me, I'm going to say, look, I'm sure it seems like I'm greedy here. If I say to you like I'm sure I'm going to seem very greedy here that sets me up to ask for a lot of money because there's actually science that backs this up. Now identifying a negative diminishes at every time. So if I'm going to make a big grab for the money, you're going to think I'm greedy and I need to get that out of the way because if I'm too greedy, you're going to get some satisfaction by keeping me from the money even if you don't get any. And so I'm going to say, look, I'm going to seem real greedy here. I'm going to seem like I'm very self centered and that I'm greedy and then I'm not looking out for you at all. And I'll just let it sit and you'll take a lot more from me. A lot, a lot. You'll allow me to take more if I've said that in advance up front, really, because I've diminished that. Your thought Is like, I mean, I can never seem too greedy. Then when I make that grab, you're going to say, well, he was honest with me. He told me he wanted a lot of money. He didn't try to say, hey, look, let's do a win win deal. Give me all the money.

Right.

Because if I say I want to do a win win deal with you, I'm like, hey, I'll be nice to you, I'll look out for you.

And then you try to take 90 and give me 10, it's like, oh, it's not a good deal.

Yeah.

But when you say it up front, then you're more likely to get the deal.

Yeah.

And get more of whatever you want.

Right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna seem very honest to you. You're gonna like that I was honest with you. And you're gonna say after the fact, like, look, he was honest. I always knew where he was coming from.

I didn't like the deal, but I did it anyways or whatever. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's the stuff that we found out that works regularly. We had talk about another one we talk about in the book. There was a multimillion dollar deal going down in Washington D.C. the subcontractor was very unhappy with the general contractor and female negotiator and they were getting ready to lose everything. And I sat down and I said, you know, I'm sure we seem like the big guy that doesn't care about you. I'm sure we seem like the big general contractor that's trying to take complete advantage of the sub and not appreciate how hard you're working for this and not care about your future at all. And she turned that deal around. When she was done, she took an additional million in profit for herself and her company. And the other side liked them more. So not only did they increase the profit, but they had a better relationship.

This is why being honest up front or empathetic or. I can see how you might feel that we're going to do this.

It's a tactical approach. There are negatives here. We're going to address the negatives up front and we're going to make them go away. Address them up front. Most people don't want to do that. I already did that. Do you know when I did that to you?

When?

I've already done it. Remember when we talked about doing a one on one role play?

Yeah.

I said it was going to be horrible.

Oh, that's true. You said it up front.

Yeah. And I Always do that. Every single time the same way. Because if you do the role play with me, no matter how it goes, you're going to feel like you were beaten, beaten up, right?

But at least you told me I was going to be, right.

And you can't come out if I say it's going to be horrible. You can't ever say, well, he sandbagged me, he caught me off guard. And then what I always do, then I diffuse the negative and then I pitch the punch. And most people pitch the positive and hope the negative will go away.

They sandwich the negative, positive, negative, positive.

I don't like sandwich at all.

Start with the negative.

Start with the negative. And I said, and you will learn more than anyone else.

So how do you do that? In a business deal where you start with, okay, I'm sure you think we're horrible or we're trying to get more than we should, or, well, you know.

Walking to the table, you can make a really educated guess on what the other side is going to think of you. If you're a big business dealing with a small business, if you're David and Goliath, you know that before you get to the table, right? Flip side around. If you're new to the industry and you're trying to work your way into the industry, how do you look to somebody who's been in the industry? You look like an intruder. You know, I'm sure I look like an intruder. I'm sure I look wet behind the ears. I'm sure I look like I don't have any experience in this area. Because if I'm new to the industry and I'm talking to somebody who's been in the industry for a while, what I want is money. You've got. I want a piece of your pie. It's a nice big pie here and I want to take a big bite out of it. If I'm new to the industry, it doesn't take a genius to talk it through and go like, yeah, somebody who's new to the industry is trying to hammer their way in. They got no respect for people who've already been there. And I'll say that I'm sure I look like an intruder here.

So how do you frame the positive afterwards? Then you go, I look like an intruder. But.

And then I'll say, and there's money to be made here that wasn't there otherwise. Because if I'm new to the industry, especially if I'm bringing a deal in, I'm bringing you found money. The worst Thing I could do is say, hey, look, I got some found money for you. Let me bring this to you. You're gonna be like, you ain't bringing me nothing. I'm fine. I could pay my bills before you walked in the door. I didn't need you to pay my bills, so. But I want to make that point. So I'll. I got somewhere I'm going. I'm going to say, you know, I'm sure I'm look like an intruder. I'm unappreciative. I'm wet behind the ears. You've been here for a thousand years. You know, I don't know anything.

So always lead with the negative or the elephant.

Identify the elephant in the room. That's exactly right.

Doesn't have to be negative.

But the elephant in a room. Identify that elephant always gets smaller every time you call the elephant in the room out again. And there's a subtle difference, too. I never deny it. Like, there's a difference between me saying, I'm sure I seem like an intruder, which is good. And if I say to you, I don't want you to think I'm an intruder, that's a denial.

That's going to be.

I am an intruder in your mind. I'm coming into this new. I'm coming to this. Yeah.

Denial magnifies negatives. The subtle difference between denial and observation. And if I say, look, man, I don't want you to think to. I want. I'm an intruder here. I don't want you to think I'm way behind the ears, that I don't know what I'm doing immediately. You're thinking that because I denied it, and that's why. And that subtle difference is night and day in negotiations. That subtle difference makes. All of it I had. I'm doing. When I'm working on my book deal. I don't know if my agent will listen to this or not, but I use this with my agent one time because I'm a bad client if somebody's negotiating on my behalf, because at some point in time, I'm gonna jump in with no warning, of course, and not listen to you.

This is how it's supposed to be done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can. I can only sit back for so long, and so I'm getting ready. I'm jumping in the middle of this price negotiation with a potential writer.

Oh, with the writer.

Okay. You know, before I came across. Tal is a superstar.

Yes.

He is the best business book writer on the planet.

He's great.

And so before I came across tal were working with, trying to get something going with another guy, and I jumped in, in the middle of it with no warning, without telling my agent. So I did it in an email, and then I constructed an email to my agent at the same time. Now, if somebody's supposed to be keeping their mouth shut in a negotiation, the name you might call them might be a loose cannon.

Okay.

Somebody who pipes up when they're supposed to shut up and they don't check with anybody else. Loose cannon. So I sent I craft an email to my agent at the same time. And at first I wrote it wrong. The first time, I'll admit, I said, I don't want you to think I'm a loose cannon. And then I went back and edited it and I said, I'm sure I seem like a loose cannon.

So he couldn't deny it.

Right?

You weren't denying it.

You were, but this is a predictable negative. I seem like a new guy. I said, I'm sure I seem like a loose cannon. Send him the email. As soon as he read it, he sent me back. No, I don't. I always respect a bold move, so I call the negative out. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out and just call it out. Identify the elephant in the room. Don't deny it. If I'd have said, there ain't no.

Elephant in the room, Rabbi.

Yes, there is.

Sure.

And he responded immediately.

Were you part of negotiating the. With the publisher as well? Did you let him do the job?

No, he. You know what you need an agent for is really understand terms and conditions.

Yeah.

And a great source of intel. And so when the deal came through, plus, I don't try to get every last dollar and I don't try to get every last percentage.

You want it to be a win win.

Well, I want. I want you to want to continue to do business with me in the future. And if I cut your throat, you're not going to want to continue to do business with me.

Or if they don't make out what they thought they wanted to, then.

Right. Right. So, yeah. In fact, even though I don't use.

The words win win.

Yeah.

Why not?

Because. Just because I. First of all, it's shorthand for wimp win. Or so only, only, only two people really actually will throw that out of the negotiation. Someone who needs to be a stronger negotiator or. It's almost 1,000%. Now, if somebody says win, win to me early on, I know they're communicating to me. They're going to try to make this deal without giving me any money. Really?

I just don't think that way when I say it though. But maybe that's most people.

Well, you're a naturally collaborative guy.

Yes.

And you've got a lot of non tangibles to throw on the table to make it a great deal. And a lot of people that haven't thought up those non tangibles or non monetary stuff to make it a great deal, they just know that they got no money.

Right.

And if you approach the table and you got no money, how are you going to make that deal? A lot of people think, well, I gotta, let's make it win, win. And I'm so wonderful to deal with that. You'll just be famous if you deal with me.

Gotcha, Gotcha. Okay, so what do you say instead of that? I want to make this good for you and good for me?

Well, I start throwing up stuff that's really good for me, that's not going to cost you a dime. I'm going to brainstorm with you like crazy as much as I can and then I'll get you brainstorming. And I was in a discussion today to possibly go to a conference in Chicago and I already know in advance they got like nothing for fees.

Right?

So you're like, yeah. And we start brainstorming and the young lady I'm on the phone with, she says, well, is there anybody that might come to the conference that you would want to meet? And my thought was I don't know who's at the conference, but I do know, I think a profession that wants to get better at negotiation is not afraid to admit it. Are baseball scouts I'm on a phone with or I'm going to play with a baseball scout just yesterday and he's saying like, look, as a scout I'm out signing prospects on these million dollar deals. We could have a several hundred thousand dollars swing in a given deal. I'm not a negotiator, I'm a scout. So it occurs to me that these scouts are out there trying to find talent and then they have never had time to become better negotiators except by finding out the hard way. You can learn my stuff really fast. I gave this guy a copy of my book. They said, you know what, read the first 10 pages. If you can't use it, then you don't ever have to talk to me again. In the first 10 pages you learn some stuff you can use right away. So I'm on the phone with this girl for this conference today. And I go like, all right, look, I think I could really help out professional baseball organizations to their scouts, maybe not their GMs, who are doing the $100 million deals, but put me in a room with the guys that are doing a million dollar deals. And I said, so if you know anybody for the Cubs or the White Sox, just give me an introduction and we'll talk about it. That'd be worth me going to this conference for nothing if I get a good introduction to something that'll lead me to business. And she's like, she says, I'll check into that because she's right there. They're running a big conference and it's very much good for Chicago and it's good for business people. And most professional sports franchises come to know that what's good for the community is good for them. So then it becomes, in effect, win, win. Right. Just don't use those terms.

How do you become the smartest person in the room?

You know, look for emotions first.

Emotions?

Yeah.

You know, what if I figure out what's driving you? Like if I tell what you're passionate about and you're passionate about getting better and you're passionate about helping other people, and you're passionate about healthy competition and you are fueled by a great feeling of achievement and competition at the same time. And you're more likely to do stuff and engage in activities that fuel both of those things at the same time.

Right.

And the openly competitive people are either openly competitive because competition makes it feel good, or it's a defensive thing. And you need to know the difference between somebody who attacks you because they're being defensive and afraid they're going to get hurt, and they're very fear driven. And a person that's attacking you because they're just very competitive and a very competitive type just likes competition, makes a great ally. Whereas a person who's attacking you out of fear, they're not good long term allies because they're going to feel at some point in time they got to screw you before you screw them. So understanding the distinctions and those drivers, those two people look almost exactly the same. I had a phenomenal social relationship with a woman who was in real estate here in town three or four years ago. And she was fear of loss, overwhelmingly.

Fear of loss, driven in relationships, in business and everything.

Right. She was always just horrified that she was getting cheated and she didn't have great business partnerships. She was very successful, but not a lot of great partners. And it's a slight change there's a 2 millimeter change there between the competitive, because they like competition, or the aggressive assaulted because they're afraid of getting cheated. And I need to know those differences because it's going to tell me what kind of a partner you're going to be.

How do you know those differences? Just by being aware, Listening.

Yeah. You know, the emotional intelligence comes to you really fast once you start looking for it. Right. That's why some people are really good at cold reads. One of the classes I'm teaching at Georgetown right now, there's a really brilliant young lady who's Afghani and she loves a cold read. You know, starting to make educated guesses about somebody real quick.

Yes.

And she's talking to a cab driver the other day, and a cab driver turns around and looks at her and says, did my wife send you? Because she guessed the guy's daughter's name. She guessed a lot of things that were accurate about his daughter and his wife just based on a quick interaction. And for her it was a game, which is another thing. If it becomes fun for you, you pick it up faster. So you can get really good at this as soon as you start trying to look. And it's amazing. It'll also go away quickly, too. You gotta watch it.

It's a muscle.

Yeah. Atrophy. Exactly. Right. You gotta train on it. Wow.

What's a word you'd never say in a negotiation? Or the worst thing to say? Business deals or personal relationships depends upon.

What'S coming out whose mouth it's coming out of.

Like, do you ever say no? Or do you ever say, I might.

Need to say no? I probably. I like to let no out a little at a time, which is actually, how am I supposed to do that? Is the first way that I say no.

That's no without saying no.

Right. That's saying no to what's on the table, but not no to you. Let's figure if we can work this out, there may come a point in time when I. When I say no. Said and done. But I'm going to need to explore every option there. I mean, I don't. Saying hearing yes is a bad thing to hear.

So don't say yes.

Yeah.

Yes. In and of selves. I would much rather say, you know, okay, I'll do it. I love to say you win because when you win, you're going to perform. Yes is nothing without how I need you to perform at a top level, you perform at a higher level when you feel like you win. If you look at me and we make a deal and say, okay, well, that's a resigned okay. And we're going to run into trouble when we go to implement because the minute anything bad could happen by you, by your inaction, you know, there's a phrase, never be mean to someone who can hurt you by doing nothing, which nearly everybody can't hurt you by doing nothing.

So saying, okay, I'll do it.

Right.

Or yes, you win or you win.

Right. Right. I want you to feel like you won.

You win. So you got the better end of the deal.

Yeah. Because are you going to hold to the deal? If you got the best end of the deal, you could brag about it.

Awesome. Yeah, I got the better end. Huh?

Right.

So you win. Okay, I'll do it. You win because you're both of them together.

If I say it, that's good. Because you won. If you say it, it's bad to me. Because you feel beat. I don't want you to feel beaten. Which is one of the real big problems with negotiation. Because since I've been helping people get better at it, I get more stories. A guy says, let me tell you about this deal. I had them over a barrel. There was nowhere for them to go. For all intents and purposes, I took them hostage. Well, I guarantee you that the person they beat was as passive aggressive as possible on the implementation of that deal.

Then you feel good about it.

Money on the table didn't feel good about it. Right.

Huh?

Right.

So always make the other person feel like they got the better end of the deal. Right?

Right.

They won and.

Yeah, they won. And it was their idea.

It was their idea. I like your idea. I'll do it. Something like that.

That's really good. And so that's why usually the one word answers of yes and no, those are also frequently misunderstood. There's three kinds of yeses. There's commitment, confirmation, counterfeit. And most people are used to getting lured into a trap with yes. Would you like to make more money? Isn't it true this is the off season? You know, whatever setup. Yes, there is.

Would you like.

Okay, yeah, you know, it's leading someplace.

Yes.

One of my, one of my students is on a honeymoon and he's wanting to get an upgrade on his bungalow. And it's the off season in this, in this resort. Now, what they typically do is they cut prices on, on their basic rooms. Not the honeymoon suites, but not the honeymoon suites. But he knows they're all vacant now. He doesn't want to cut price on a regular room. He Wants a honeymoon suite. And he starts out the conversation with, like, you know, isn't it true this is the off season? The general manager knows there's a trap.

There, so what's he say?

And so the guy starts going sideways on him immediately. Oh, really?

He didn't say yes.

Right. He didn't want to say yes because he knows that yes is commitment and yes is probably a trap. And he knows, I don't know where you're going with this, but you're going someplace.

That's what he said.

Yeah.

And then what happened?

Well, and so then my student realized that, you know, he fell into this yes trap thing. So he had to kind of. He had to kind of get back out of it. And he started talking, and instead of trying to get yeses and nos on him, he started describing the situation. He started showing him a little bit. Yeah. Well, I'm sure, you know, a lot of guys like me come in, we want a room. We don't want to pay anything for it. You get so many tourists that are in here in the off season, and they're cheap. That's why they're here in the off season anyway, because they're cheap to start with, and they don't want to pay anything for anything anyway. Now, the managers appreciate where the guy's coming from.

So leading with the negative.

Right. He ends up getting the upgrade. Really? Yeah.

Free because he built a relationship, and.

Yeah, the guy's got an empty room. Yeah. Never be meeting somebody who could hurt you by doing nothing. Not giving you the empty room is doing nothing. You know, you want this guy to give you a favor, and he doesn't own the hotel, and those rooms are normally vacant anyway. So his owner, whoever owns a hotel, they're not mad at him because those rooms are empty. They expected him to be empty. So he's got options. You know, ultimately, you want to make the pitch. Like, you know, you give me that upgrade. I'm going to be a fan for life. I'm going to tell everybody.

I'm going to come back, I'm going to promote it.

I'm going to tell all my friends about this.

Something I've done for, like, the last 10 years. A friend of mine told me this line that he's like, you know, if you ever want an upgrade, if you ever want, like, something better in the deal, use this line. And I swear I've been using it. Maybe it's been wrong, but I'd love your opinion. All right, I say, what's the chance you can Help me with this.

All right, so that's a, that's a what question to start with.

What's the chance?

Two things about that that I like. First of all, it's a what question.

Yeah. And secondly, what's the chance you can upgrade me?

You're elevating the person when you ask it for help.

So you're giving them power. Right, right. The opportunity to have power.

Right. Yeah. So there's. And I don't know that I changed that sentence at all. I might say in advance, like, look, this is really going to seem greedy of me, you know, because you can't, you can't.

Leading with the negative.

Leading with the negative. If you try to call out a negative, that's not there, you won't plant it. If you try to deny a negative, that's not there, you plant that baby. That's why you have to know the difference between a denial and a straight observation. And that's a subtle difference. Because you're probably going to want to say before you ask the guy for a discount, you're probably going to say, this guy's going to think I'm cheap and I'm greedy. I don't want him to think that. So if you mention it all, you get instinct to say, look, I don't want you to think I'm cheap and greedy here. That's a denial. That plants it.

So I bet you might think that I'm being a little greedy.

Sure.

I'm sure it's coming across.

Being greedy. But what's the chance you can help? You can upgrade me.

Yeah, yeah.

You can support me in getting upgrade.

And so if you're, if asking for an upgrade as a human being, the guy's going, no, that's not greedy. You want them, you want them thinking no, you want them saying no. No is a great answer because when somebody says no, they have just protected and defended themselves. Like it's ridiculous. You will be stunned at what people are willing to say no to. I mean, just absolutely stunned. I'm coaching a guy who's working on a new position with the city of Beverly Hills, and they. They're constructing, since it's a new position, he sees this job description that he wants to take, but it's problematic the way they put it together. And he says, how do I negotiate with these guys? Because this job description is not going to make it work. And I said, look at him across the table and say, do you want me to fail? And their answer is no. And I said, well, look at how this is set up. I'd love to have this job. But instead of saying, he wants us to sit down with him and say, hey, look, this is never going to work the way you guys designed this.

Right. You can't say that, though.

You can't say that because then they're.

Coming from defense mode or something.

Right? Right. Right. Now their ego's in a way where you say, because when you say, do you want me to fail? I mean, that's. No, I don't want to begin to help you. Yeah. They say no, they protect themselves. You then come into the other guy's rescue. I mean, you're punching a lot of really powerful emotional triggers there. When you say to somebody, you want me to fail. Hmm. And one way or the other, I mean, we try to sit down and think of the most ridiculous question that they would never say yes to. Like, if at the end of a negotiation, if I can't. If my. One of my last things I'm always going to say is, like, if you can't budge at all, I'll say, all right, well, look, it seems like you're powerless here. Oh. Because nobody wants to say yes.

Oh, wow.

Seems like there's nothing you could do. It seems like you're completely powerless here, and they'll put you on hold. They'll find a way to help.

So it seems like you're powerless.

You can't help me. It sounds like you're powerless here.

Right. Nobody ever wants to say yes to that.

Wow. That is powerful.

Yeah.

Do you use that a lot when.

You'Re at the end of any bill.

Or anything or something?

At the end of any deal, if we haven't come to an agreement that I'm happy with, that'll be the last thing I'll say. It seems like there's nothing I could say, and it seems like you're powerless.

Seems like nothing that you could say to them to get what you need or for them to move the deal points, and it seems like you're powerless. They're powerless.

Right.

Holy cow. That's powerful insight.

So, yeah, a lot of people have cut deals by. They thought it was completely in the tank, and they're actually just trying to end positively. It's really. It's critical to end positively.

So give me one little extra thing then if, you know, they want to end positively. Not like, yeah, I'm powerless here. So let's do the deal.

Yeah.

Okay. I'll throw in this, or I'll give you this.

I make it a regular poor, like, my credit cards. Almost all of them got fees. And I call every year, ask them to waive the fee, and they almost always do. And until the guy says, well, we waived the fee on you the last five years in a row.

So it sounds like you're powerless here.

And I'll say, yeah, I'll say that. I'll say it sounds like you're absolutely powerless here. Sounds like you're nothing, nothing you could do. And they'll put me on hold.

He said, let me see what I could do.

They'll come back and do it. Nobody wants to be powerless.

Oh, wow, that's great.

Thank you so much for watching this video. If you enjoyed this, make sure to click the like button. Subscribe and turn on the notification bell and subscribe. And if you want more greatness in your life, then you got to check out this video right here. Anxiety is not expressed. Anxiety becomes suppressed. We suppress it, and the suppression then turns to depression.