The DARK TRUTH About Success, Happiness & FINDING PURPOSE | Wayne Brady & Lewis Howes

But I feel like I grew up watching you and being inspired by you every single week on TV. And every time I watched you deliver a message, it seemed like I was just in awe of your talent, your, I wouldn't call it natural talent, 'cause I know how much you had to develop it over your years. But you were so gifted, so talented in your creative endeavor and in your art. that it is, I've just never seen anything like it. So first off, I want to acknowledge you for the incredible joy that you brought so many people around the world with your talent, with your art, with your creative expression. And it's just amazing. So I really appreciate all you've done.

Thank you.

For humanity with your gift, because I think there's a lot of people that develop talents, skills, gifts, and they use it for themselves to make more money or to become famous or be successful, but they're not using it also to be in service. And I really feel like you've done that.

Well, first, thank you. And I will accept that. And the reason I use the wording, I will accept that very specifically because folks can compliment you anytime. And I know for me, the kind of person I am, it's cool to get compliments, but it's still uncomfortable sometimes because when I started doing this as a kid, all I ever wanted to do was just to act. And the purpose of acting is to become someone else or to hide behind a character. So most of the stuff that you do, so when someone compliments you, especially for doing things where you're just being the character of yourself, and it's like, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool. But I'll accept it because I think I've come to a place in my life where I also understand what you were saying about using your gift or whatever you have to to bring life and light to other people.

Yes.

And I was just talking, I was giving a speech the other day saying this exact same thing. I now understand that. I never understood that because for many years it was about that. Because at the end of the day, no matter how inspiring someone sets off to be, you're like, oh, I wanna be the Mahatma Gandhi of the entertainment industry. Sure. at the end of the day, it is a business, right? We all, you have your talent, you cultivate it with the hope of the wares that I have and the product that I have can bring me a life and can pay my bills and take care of my family and blah, blah, blah. That's what most people acting or in the entertainment business, because it's such a hard and subjective business, that's what you're doing. yeah, you just want to get to where you get so I can so I can make a living. So the hustle blinds you. And if you're lucky enough to ascend to no matter what place, the hustle is still there. I mean, I dare say even Tom Cruise is still hustling. It's just on a mega level or whomever you think is at the top of that food chain is still doing their thing. But at a certain point, you have to go, oh yeah, you know, this thing that I consider a job, it's making people happy. And I've just reached that point in the past, I won't even lie, maybe the past five to seven years that I made that delineation. Really?

So when you were starting out, and I watched a lot of you on Whose Line Is It Anyways, I think a lot of people have seen you there, mostly. But when you were starting out, specifically that show, were you thinking, I'm also bringing joy to people, even though this is a fun, you know, improv comedy show? Or are you just thinking, I'm trying to make a living, I'm trying to make it, I'm trying to stay here?

Well, it's, no, no, I wasn't thinking about bringing joy to people because I don't think that most people do. The business is not, the business is not built for that. If you decide that that's what you're doing, then that's an individual decision. That's great. But it is, hey, this is your job and you're doing your job. And I think especially when I started on Whose Line, when I was 25 or 26, I was happy to be on the show. So I'm happy that I'm on this show. and yes, I know objectively that people are laughing at the show because that's what it's supposed to do. So if the thing is doing what it's supposed to do and that I'm being rewarded for that, that's great. I don't think you can truly appreciate those things until maybe you are a little older and a little more advanced in your life and career because we are also separated from the people at home. So unless you're like me, a stage performer as well, where maybe you're stand up, maybe you're a singer who tours, maybe you're doing Broadway, maybe you do. That's, I think is the closest that you get to that, oh, that's right, these people, okay, it's amazing that I get to do this and those people are standing and they're smiling and they're happy. That's when you get to that, piece of it. But if you're on a TV show, then you don't think about the audience at home as long as they're enjoying it and the show continues to go.

And you're getting a paycheck every week.

And you're getting the paycheck. So it's not to make it sound mercenary, but it is a job. But like at the end of it, it is show business. It's a job and you're hoping that your job is making people happy, but that you're hoping that your job is doing the thing. I think social media It was the catalyst for people to start changing the way because the rules of engagement changed. Because in the early 90s and 2000s and those, so social media wasn't big, so you operated in a vacuum. You only had Nielsen ratings. You had ratings. Oh good, so my show's working. Awesome. And then I get to go on tour, whatnot. Awesome. Now though, And the reason that I say that in the past few years, I've embraced the fact that I know that I can bring joy is because.

You engage with people online and you see their comments.

And you see their comments, right? And I think it really hit me at the beginning of the lockdown, during that phase of the pandemic, because Let's Make a Deal was one of the only shows to continue to go straight through. And I knew at that point when everything was frozen, the fact that we could, even if we just, we did a little online version of Let's Make a Deal when I was sitting at home with my buddy Jonathan and we were just having folks get on live with us and we were giving away money or t-shirts or, you know, just small things. Folks were like, Hey, thank you. Jobs have stopped right now because we're scared. And so the fact that you gave us a hundred bucks, 500 bucks, or you give us a t-shirt or you acknowledged me, oh, that made me feel so good right now. Thank you for that. And that's when I began to really listen and to engage and go, oh my gosh, this show is affecting people on that level. And it can take me out of my own head of this is a job.

Yeah. I'm curious, I mean, you've been very successful at converting your talent and gift into a career that has been known, a career that has been, you know, 30 years in the making essentially, and that has brought you a living and then some over the last 30 years. I'm sure there's been ups and downs and shows canceling and going through, but your talent and gift has brought you quote unquote success. I'm curious, How did you learn how to turn success and happiness and bring them together? How did you learn to be successful and be happy at the same time?

Who said that I learned that? I don't know about some of your other guests, but I certainly will not bull you right now and say, I sit at the intersection of those two. I think that's a work in progress.

Really?

Absolutely. That is an absolute work in progress because the two do not equal each other. And the two, I think it takes an absolute effort to make your occupation meet success. Because the problem is, and not just with show business, but I think with any job, where you find success, your bar for success gets bumped up. And the more that it gets bumped up, the more your expectations rise and the things that you were happier with before no longer meet that bill. So now you're chasing.

Wow.

So I distinctly remember at one point, because before Whose Line, when I was 26, I'd already been a working actor since 16. Just touring, or I'd been on sitcoms, guest stars, I'd done a bunch of one-hour shows as guest, I'd already done a ton of theater, singing backup for folks and doing stuff. so, so, so I'd worked for 10 years. So, so that was an overnight thing, you know, 10, get 10 years in the making. But I was always lucky to be working in show business. But I remember specifically at one point before I got Whose Line, just praying. And you should never do this, I feel, but, you know, we're all guilty of it to whatever deity or force you pray to. But I remember saying, God, man, it would be so just, just help me out enough. I just need a gig that will get me enough to. To get a new car, because my car had been repossessed. My. My. My Corolla DX had been repossessed. And my girlfriend, Mandy, at the time, who. Who's now my business partner, we. we were leaving our apartment in North Hollywood and I think that I was like, I forget the number. I think the number was maybe like $8,000 or like five to $8,000 in debt in the sense of cards or, you know, whatever the thing was. It seemed like an absolutely insurmountable number because I'd never been in debt, but to have that is like, God, if you just, how do I, and I got this gig, it dropped into my lap. And I remember, okay, well now that I've got this, and it was a job to go to Tokyo as a lounge singer, to work in these clubs, they were paying me $1,000 in cash, which for some people listening, maybe $1,000 doesn't sound like a lot, but it was $1,000 a week in 97 or something. Cash? In Tokyo, so no taxes.

Soing expenses and everything paid for you.

And I was living in a place there and I was making tips, so my aim was I was going to come back to the States. I was like, I'm coming back to the States with like twenty thousand dollars. That's all I'm going to do. I'm going to stay there long enough to make this, and that'll and I'll take care of everything. And once that's taken care of, I'm gonna be so happy. I'm gonna be so happy I'll be able to get a cheap car and I wanna buy a Nintendo. I remember that was I wanna buy a Nintendo. I wanna get a car and I can have six months down on a brand new apartment. That's all I want. God, can we make that happen? He did. That happened.

Did it make you happy?

No happier than, like, the not happy just, oh, relieved. I've got some breathing room. And then just a little while later, a confluence of events happened that were really cool. I got, I was cast in the Lion King as one of the original Simbas and I didn't end up doing it because whose line is it anyway came around. So all these opportunities manifested and then, you know, the other stuff happens. But then, oh great, now I can buy a new car because I just got this TV show so I can buy a cheap new car and now I can buy a small house. Great. And now I've been on TV X amount of time and now I've created this other show. I created the Wayne Brady Show, my sketch show. So now I can, oh, so now I can move to a better house and now I'm happy. No, I'll be happier. Now I've gotten a taste of that.

Now you're comparing to other people.

Yeah, so now I'll be happy when, oh, when I can do what that dude's doing and I'll just buy a bigger house and maybe I can get another car and I can do this other thing and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Fast forward to, I wake up and I'm 50 and I've been on TV for X amount of years and whatever and have these shows. I'm happy because I have a wonderful family and I love my daughter and I love my ex-wife who's my business partner and I've got many blessings. But I cannot look you in your face and say, if I'm truly happy happy, because I've never given myself truly the room to breathe, to find out what is my level of happy. I've been chasing things all these years, and that's where I am now, right now, in my process. I'm working on not chasing.

Wow.

And really discovering what's my bar for happy. Because happy is a very broad and subjective thing. I think it's more what can you do without and still be okay?

Well, I really appreciate your honesty here. Because I was actually having a conversation with someone yesterday about this. I just moved into a new home in Studio City. Kind of a dream home for me, really. But I've been living in two-bedroom apartments for the last 15 years. kind of living in a safer environment, you know, less expenses, non-committal to owning something, all these things. We're having flexibility, you know. And I really love the space that I've created with my girlfriend. But I'm also like, if I had to go back to a two-bedroom apartment, I'd still be pretty happy with my life. I don't think I'd be less happy. It doesn't mean I don't want more and in the environment that I want, but I'd still be happy. and I think I'd be happy because I've really in the last few years done a lot of healing work to have more inner peace about who I am and my past. So that's why I feel like for me, why that would be the case. Cause I used to chase, chase, chase as well. And it's not that I'm not chasing and developing, but I feel like I'm allowing things to come and man and drawing things to me more is the intention. I'm not saying I'm perfect data, but that's what I'm working on creating. I'm curious for people watching and listening, what do you wish you would have known about fame and success and money in the show business world before you ever got into it? If you could go back and speak to the 16 year old or 25 year old before you kind of started popping even more, what do you wish you would have known after all these years of experience about fame, success and money?

I think I would have known about, you use the word intention. I think that's what I would have been more aware of. Not necessarily the money piece or because at least in my mind, my journey, and you also mentioned healing and the chasing, I think that's it. It's a buzzword now, you know, that folks talk about trauma, but I think it's a good buzzword because it's true. We operate from a place of trauma. And you know, that thing that wounds, wounds that some people like to, you know, make fun of, of oh, oh, so what are you doing? You're gonna heal your inner child? You're gonna, yeah, you know, and go back and parent that kid in a way that maybe you haven't. So, yeah, so many of the things that we do, so I, so my trauma and the wounds that I know that I'm still working on healing, hence why I can't say that I'm happy or not, is because that young Wayne never felt worthy enough, I think always felt less than, for a number of reasons. And so that Lil Wayne used promised himself that when he got to a place that he could use his talent or his gift or whatever that thing was. And once that hustle started, he wasn't gonna look back and he was gonna show everybody and everything exactly how good he was based on that. And so while that sounds cool and inspirational for, you know, a Hallmark movie, scrappy kid pulls himself up by the bootstraps. Immediately what ends up happening is you're operating from a place of you are chasing. And if that was my baseline, that's my baseline, that's where I started. I already started hungry and chasing and thinking that the more I get or the better I do, all of these things are gonna make me feel better and then you'll see. and then you'll see, I wasn't operating with intention. I just wanted to work. I said from the age of 16, I was lucky enough to start doing plays and got my equity card and I was started, I said I just want to work. So because I just wanted to be able to take care of myself, I want enough money to be able to take care of myself. I want to have, because I didn't have, so I want to have. So if you're operating from a place I want to have, I want this now, I was not intentional with my show business journey.

You're just kind of saying yes to whatever, I'll do anything.

Yes, everything. Yes, which started at that point saying yes, but then as my career and as life goes on, you're still in the thing I've spent a lot of years saying yes and doing which is why I've done it. I've been very blessed to do a lot of varied things all over the scope, but if I could go back and say, hey, hey, hey, But you know what'd be cool? Instead of doing maybe 30 things over the course of this time, whatnot, what if you were to do 14 of them? Half of these things. And the 14 would have just been, oh, bangers. Bangers, each of them things that you really, really, really loved and really wanted to do. Maybe you would not have made as much money without doing the other half of them, the 15 to 30 other things. But A, you might have been a lot happier and they would have been for your soul. But then in success, if those things would have worked out, then exponentially it would have out grossed the gain for these things. so that's what I look at and I go, damn, huh? So I try to teach those lessons to my daughter who's now in the business and so I mentor other actors and young producers and say, hey, this is the road that I walked down. I want you to be really specific about what you want to do because you can have that prayer answered. Oh, I just want to work. I just want to do, I just want to, Sure, that can absolutely happen. But will it be exactly what you want?

Will it be enough to feel loved, to feel joyful, peaceful, happy?

Absolutely.

There's a great quote that Jim Carrey talked about. I'm gonna butcher it here, but it's something like, I wish everyone would become rich and famous and realize it's not the key to happiness. Something like that. I wish everyone would experience it so they could realize, that's not everything. There's a lot of benefits to being rich and famous, but it's not going to make you feel happy.

Absolutely. The two do not have to go together. And yes, it sounds... I can understand how to someone who may not have something that they want, or they go, well, that's easy for you to say, but I know that I don't have X to go to the... the grocery store and get that, that, that. And I understand that because I've been there. I completely get that. But specifically, you have to listen specifically to what that thing is. It's, yes, you can have that thing. You could win the lottery tomorrow. How many times have we read about the person that is the Powerball winner?

And then they go bankrupt a couple of years later, they commit suicide.

$783 million, even the lump sum, you get it paid out, you get half of that for the rest of your life. Your life is set, isn't it? But they end up losing their friends, their family. Maybe they lose their lives. Maybe they go back. That does not guarantee happiness. It's the thing that you do with it. It's what you do with it. My grandmother, who raised me, did not have a lot. And we did not have a lot. But I know that that old lady was happy. I know she was happy.

Do you think she was happy? Do you think she was unhappy with her kids or her daughter, right? Was your mom was her daughter?

No, no, my father. Her father, yeah.

Was she unhappy with, you know, your parents who were not showing up for you?

Oh, no.

She wasn't mad about that. She was happy to take the responsibility.

And no, because the way that that happened, you know, for anybody watching what we're talking about, I was raised by my grandmother, but my situation was a little different. I was raised by my grandmother mostly, but my father was there. He was in orbit. But because he was in the military and he always moved around, they made a very specific choice, which I think was, you know, it was a pretty mature choice for A kid his age when they made it, he's like, look, I don't want him traveling from post to post with me. And because of his job specifically, he was a combat engineer. And so, you know, guys that go in, they build the bridges, and they also would fight and defend it. So he was doing his thing all around the world and here in the States. I get it now. And knowing the kind of dude that he was, it was a lot to be able to pick me up, take him with me, and do... So I think he wanted stability. He wanted the childhood that he was given. And I think he also thought, well, I don't think that I can give that to him. So, Mom, please raise him like you raised me. Because I love how I was raised. Right. So raised...

So she was happy about it.

So she was happy about that.

And your mother, where was she in the picture?

She was still in Georgia. They divorced. And what a wonderful lady. And I have an amazing relationship with her right now. And we've definitely become closer in the past few years.

She wasn't around much when you were growing up, right?

No, no, no. Because that decision was taken out of her hands.

Which.

I don't wish I had a time machine because I grew into who I grew into and I don't know if I'd want to mess with that much. I think that, but I wish that it would have worked out a little differently for her in terms of having a relationship with her son, especially her firstborn, because the narrative that I always received with with that side of the family was that, you know, that this was for the best. And my side of the family from Columbus, Georgia, they had a very specific arc in terms of, you know, a couple people got arrested and they hadn't had their whole thing. So I was always told, well, it's a good thing that you live here because that's the projects and you would be there and da-da-da-da-da. Right, right. So I never hated her, but I was just like, oh, it's good that I'm here. Now as a father, I feel for her because she didn't get a chance to raise her firstborn and her young man. But we are definitely trying to make up for lost time. That's good. That's my chick.

What was the biggest lesson your grandmother that she taught you growing up that you still think about to this day that really helped carry you through your life?

I think my work ethic. I definitely think my work ethic. That's the thing that has gotten me through days when I didn't think I could get up. I think one of the biggest lessons she taught me and I talked about this before is even in the depths of depression and for anybody who has been through depression or is going through depression, and one of the hardest things is to show up, right?

Because you're exhausted, you're drained, you don't feel good about yourself, you're self-loathing, you're, you wanna lay around and do nothing.

You just wanna lay around and I'll even go a step further to say that for my own personal journey with with depression. It's not even laying around and doing nothing. I've talked to my therapist and the way that I visualize things, it's always, I think, in a very, I'm a very big sci-fi nerd and it's, I picture my battery that if I am this, If I'm this superhero and I go out in the world and I show up in my suit of armor and I'm able to do everything I can, it's like someone has just gone around back and removed that battery. And no matter what I do, sitting there like, I gotta get up, I gotta get up, but I can't. I can't function because my battery, my arms are too heavy. My body is too heavy. My heart is too heavy. My legs won't work the right way. So the easiest thing to do is just to shut down. No matter what I want to do, I just shut down. So to combat that, because I've got to show up, I've got to show up for people. I have to show up for my daughter. I have to show up for my job. because my job is how I take care of the machinery that is set up around me. So I make my bed. That's one of the things that that old lady, my grandmother, and if anyone, you know, watching, if you are raised either an island, if you're of island descent, or if you're a child of an immigrant, and you're a first generation here, you know the thing of get up, make your bed, and go, and just go. Because once that bed is made, now you have stuff to do. You don't have the luxury of stopping. Now, to a degree on the surface, I will say that's a little toxic because of the whole, 'Cause that generation, what's depression? You know what I was saying?

Yeah, just mask it.

If my grandma was still alive and we talked about it, and I think if I tried to explain to her, no, no, no, Mommy, you know, like when you feel really bad, I feel bad all the time. I still work, I still get up, I go, you know, so that generation is like, no, we don't have the luxury of I feel sad, I feel bad, I can't wake up, I can't go. So just do it and you don't talk about your stuff. That's the toxic component of that. So I hear that. But the good piece of it is, if I make my bed, I have no option now, 'cause I've made my bed, it is, you could bounce a quarter off of it, I can't get back in that bed.

And I'm not going back in.

I'm not getting back in the bed. So now go. And that is how even through some of the roughest patches that has gotten me through. Even this past year, I lost my grandmother and I've been very, you know, I've talked about it a little bit. I did Dancing with the Stars last year and I dedicated it to her. And this is the anniversary of her this month actually, she's been gone a year. This is one of the darkest years I've had. Because I always lived in fear of losing that old lady. And a lot of what I did in terms of success, once I got to a certain point, I was like, Look, Ma, look what I did. Look, this is my show. I'm gonna fly out to see my show. Look, Ma, this is the show that I'm in on tour. I'm gonna fly you out. Look, Ma, I'm in Vegas. Come play all the slots you want and come and see the show. Look, Ma, I'll do a soap opera so you can come and say it here. For so many of the things that I've done, I did so she could be happy. And then when that person's gone, it's like, oh, now what? Now, now what? And that little battery plucked right out my back.

Really?

So I've spent this past year really trying to dig myself out, out of that. Wow.

What has been the biggest, I guess, realization you've created in this last year? It sounds like you've been doing emotional coaching and therapy and supporting yourself. and that what is the thing you've learned since her passing in this last year that has supported you in facing the depression or the different things that you were chasing and running from to now face and heal and mend? What are those lessons you've learned?

One of the lessons is definitely how to start to try to forgive myself which is very hard, especially if you think that you've done things wrong, because there are no time machines. So the most that you could do is either sit and dwell on it and go, I'm such a hole and I've blown all this stuff and I'm wrong, I'm wrong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and live in that, or decide to go, I did, or, that really wasn't your fault, man. Like you, you, you just took blame for something that because it's also easy, some especially where, where depression lays, it's very easy to. Well, I've already got £10 of stuff on my back. Yeah, I'll just take, take more because now it's an excuse. Now, now I can, ah, now I can just wrap up in it. And now I have a reason. Like you're depressed.

Yeah.

Now, now I have a good reason. So learning to- We got this pressure.

And this thing and this weight and all this responsibility.

Bring it.

Wow.

So to forgive yourself, what if you.

Had to forgive the most about yourself?

I think one of the things that I definitely felt was I wish I would have been there more for my daughter in her formative years because I was chasing I wasn't there for her on her first day of kindergarten because I had just released a record and I was performing at the R&B museum in Philadelphia. It was a big deal and I'm singing and doing this stuff. But my daughter screaming because dad wasn't there. And I'm telling this small kid, no, no, no, it's okay, but daddy, it's right, but daddy's doing this dad, daddy has to. Stuff like that, I have incidents, I have all these incidents all throughout her childhood that are little slivers that I can replay all over and over in my head. And now she's 20. So I think I always feel a lot of guilt about those things. And I've always tried my best to be there for her. for her otherwise. That is my heart, my pride and joy. She is amazing and I'm proud of the person that she's grown into. But I see where you can't not be affected by certain things in your childhood. And like with her, I see that she craves stability. she craves stability in her choices and she has intention. And I see that, that, you know, that's the positive and the negative. The positive is she has intention and she's doing that. But I see where, where, and she's even said, you know, this is the kind of place I want to live and this is the, the life I want to live. And these are the things I want to do because, oh, you and Mom. Wow.

Wow.

You, you always go and going and going.

There was no stability or no, you know, that feeling.

And so we had stability, but of a different kind. Like, she wants, like, the white ticket fence stability. Right. She's like, I want this.

Someone there at a certain time every day.

And that's what she's looking for in a partner. That's what she's looking.

She.

So I. So it's interesting to see the effects of your. Your conditioning and your parenting on another human being now. Now that she's becoming an adult.

Wow.

And so things like that, it sounds.

Like you've got a pretty good relationship with her now, and you've been communicating these things with her as well in this process.

Yeah. yeah, we, we have a great relationship, man. I, we butt heads. We butt heads a lot because she is my, my, my mini me. And we will all the time, but with love. Yeah, we bump heads, we're mad. Then we turn back, go back around, we hug and we kiss and, and, and I'm really fortunate that she she is the person that she is.

What's the thing you love about her the most and the lessons she's taught you about being a better man?

The thing I love about her the most now that I see her, because I did a very. I'm. I'm gonna say toxic and unhealthy because I can't think of a better word for it. But I. But. But I realized a while ago, a couple years ago, and she. She had to tell me, at first I thought she was joking, but whenever I see a baby picture of her or pictures from when she was little, she's always climbing on top of me. Look, see, we always were like this. And why aren't you affectionate now? And you're always, see, that's how I love the edges. Like, Dad, you know that I'm a grown person now and you love that version of me so much. you know, I'm here. I said, I know, but I loved when little Miley would. And that was weird that I wanted so badly to have the little person who needed me would climb on top of me and make me feel good and did. And so I needed her to check me on that. So I think the thing that I love most about the woman that she is becoming is I love that she is taking the lessons that she's seeing from her parents. I love that she has a voice because I was not raised in a household where I think like a lot of kids of my generation, I'm going to go on a limb, especially I think a black household where, you know, you weren't allowed to talk back to your parents. There were, you know, like there are memes we make fun of like, you know, when you go to little Timmy's house, Screw you, mom. Like folks make fun of that, but really there was none of that in the household.

You're getting slapped, you're getting spanked, you're.

Getting beyond it being a military, beyond the fact that my dad was always in the picture. And I could tell you stories that my dad was, if my household was a country, dad was the defense system that was always on alert and the president the ruler of my country who ruled with an iron fist. Wayne, if you step out of line, I'm bringing in the dad.

Wow.

And there were a couple times when the dad, let's just put it put it this way, when your dad flies from Stuttgart, Germany, because of some that you did in school, and you walk home that day off the bus and you see a car in the driveway, that you know should not be in that driveway. And your heart sinks because the last conversation you had with that man was, listen, Junior, if you put my mother through changes, I'm gonna put you through that wall. Wow. Yeah, well, you're not here, and she's always on my back, and you know that. Okay. Oh, man. I'll see you later. See me later. He's in Germany. I'm smart. I know how far Germany is. And the army's just not gonna let you come. So that being said, there was rarely any talking back in my house. And so even when I felt that I wanted to express myself, 'cause as much as my grandmother and I, and my grandfather was in the picture to a certain point, he passed when I was 10, loved that guy. It was not the household. My grandmother was right. so whatever it was, it was right. So if I. No, that is not fair. That is not. Not to sound artsy fartsy, but there are times when I've had to, as a character, what does it feel like to be shut down? I've had to go back and I'm like, oh, yeah, I I I know exactly what that means to. To. To have to hear something and. And. My mouth is so closed that my jaw is hurting and it goes up into my, and I feel it and I'm just, I can't say anything. And then it's like, do you have something to say? No, ma'am.

Inside, you're like, yes, but he's like.

Yep, no, ma'am, I don't. And just, so I never wanted that for her. So the fact that I have this beautiful, intelligent daughter who can speak and she has her voice. She's like, Dad, I disagree with you. Mom, I disagree with you on that. Not disrespectfully, but the fact that she has that. I love that in, in her. And for a while, I think there were times when I reverted to the old school, too. I reverted to what I knew. It's like, don't say that to me. That is disrespectful. How dare you. That is disrespectful. And her mom did it, too, because we're both children of that generation until, thank God, for therapy, we had to go, she wasn't being disrespectful, man. She was just speaking and speaking her peace. And that's what I love about my daughter. I love who she is.

That's beautiful.

And I love what she will and will not accept. Right. I love that.

That's beautiful. And I'm so glad you guys are, you know, deepening that relationship now.

Oh, that's my girl.

Yeah, that's cool. You talked about in the beginning about chasing, you know, as when you were 16 and moving out here to LA in your early 20s, you were chasing after any gig you could get and money to come in and opportunities. I also know that you, I talked about, you know, you got a stutter and you were bullied, picked on as a kid. I had a similar situation for my, my childhood. Do you feel like you were more chasing Success to prove people wrong or were you running from something because it was too painful?

That's a great question. I think in equal measures, right? I think it's in equal parts because both of those things have to exist. So, And all of our childhood journeys and the things that we remember only recently because I'm writing this one-man show. So it's made me try to remember things. And as we know, our memories are the most unreliable narrators, right?

We blow it out of proportion. We remember, change things that didn't happen.

Right. It's the most unreliable. So even now it's forced me to really try to rethink a lot of things that I've taken as, as my, as canon in my own superhero origin story. It's like, well, that's exactly how it happened because that's how I got here. So it's made me go back and reexamine things. So, yes, I was definitely bullied. Yes, I definitely dealt with that, I think, by internalizing things. And there was a time when I did have a, what I think of as a close to debilitating stutter.

Really? How old were you then?

Oh gosh, I was in early elementary school because a few things happened. So my grandmother was from the Virgin Islands and my grandfather. So, the US Virgin Island, St. Thomas and St. Croix. And so the neighborhood that I was raised in, it was predominantly black, middle to lower income housing. And so from the get-go I never quite fit in with the kids around me because of, because of how I was raised in the house and because of the, my grandparents accents. And I had a very thick accent to up to a certain point. And then I was, a big part of my early story is deals with how do you learn to become a man even when you're a boy, because it starts when you're a boy. So what are those lessons that you're learning? And what are those toxic lessons? And what are the lessons that you're learning culturally? so I'm this black kid in this black neighborhood being raised by these parents that even though they're black, they are not like the other people in this neighborhood. So I'm learning a whole different cultural lesson and vocabulary and everything. So I'm already different. So I'm already different. So that's one layer. Kids smell something different. They don't like it different. I'm already a bit of a, you know, back then a nerd was a dirty word. Now finally it's grown into folks like, oh, I'm a nerd too, 'cause I cosplay. Great. But so I enjoyed certain things that are not what the other kids enjoy. Then in kindergarten, and I don't know how, I would never do this to my kid now, I'm glad I was tested. And so, I go, I'm, it's advised that I go from kindergarten to second grade. So he's smart, skip him. In order to make that happen, then I'm bused from my neighborhood to an all-white school that's more affluent and they have these, this pro program. So I'm splitting time between there. I'm dealing with identity issues. There was a lot that I was working with that I didn't know how to handle and I couldn't talk to my grandmother or I didn't know how to even at that young age, I didn't know how to talk to them about the things that I was feeling. So in second grade, I'm already dealing with issues of race and belonging that I was not equipped on top of regular bullying. Kids are assholes right across the across, we are little jerks. But I was dealing with something and only recently have I seen that I was dealing with a big issue. How do you deal with an issue of race and identity and then on top of the regular hazing that we do to each other? So I didn't know how to deal. So my defense mechanism, which starts the beginning of that, am I running from something? Is is now I either fight back or I run from it. I feel bad, can't talk to grandma, which became my whole life. I love my grandmother more than anything. It was one of my best friends. And we talked about stuff, but I tell you, there are a lot of unresolved conversations that we never had. We never had in my life. I've kept a lot of stuff that we, so we never had these talks. no one to talk to. So I kept my own counsel. So that was the way that now I'm very used to keeping my own counsel. I don't talk to people about things. And I'm very quiet, very serious and very withdrawn because that's my way of not dealing with these people that now I get into it with them. So then that's the kid that goes, I'm gonna get out of here. First chance I get out of here, the first chance I'm getting out. And I'm gonna use whatever is at my disposal to get out. Because now I understand, and especially going to the schools that I started to go to, now I understand what it's like to be, you don't know that you're poor until somebody else points it out.

Makes fun of you and laughs at you and misses on you.

Making fun and there are a whole bunch of things, but so now So now I see that. So now I'm like, okay, I see what it's like. Those people must be happy because I've been to their homes and I walk in and they make me feel special because they let me in and oh my God, the house is so big and they're clothes, clothes are nice. And they let me in here because some of them feel I talk a certain way or that they so they now attributed this thing to me of like, oh, you're a good one, especially being from the South. So when you're from the South, you'll know what I'm talking about. So you're a good one. So now the race issue comes back. How do you deal with your identity? I'm getting a little older, dealing with issues of race and culture, and I internalize all of it. So, yes, I run away because I'm like, as soon as I get the chance to get the hell out, and I'm gonna show all of you. I'm gonna show all of you how much better I am, the fact that you kids in my neighborhood said that I wasn't this and I wasn't that and I wasn't good enough. And then the other kids in the other school, you made me feel small because of everything that you had and you made me feel this way. I'm gonna show everybody.

Wow.

And that is a very unhealthy place to start from. Because there wasn't love and acceptance of self. There was no self-love. I didn't want to start acting because I loved myself and I loved when I found a talent and I was like, I love this thing. And I'm going to hoard this thing and keep it to myself. And no one knows that I wanted to do it until I was 16. No one knew so I was in my bedroom percolating. doing voices, writing scripts, learning to sing and copying people on TV. So when I actually came out and did it, the kids at the group's like, what the hell? Wayne's on stage? He says, yeah. It was like, yes, this is what I do. Ha.

See?

Look, gotcha. That's me. I'm out. And it was also to show my grandmother. It was to show my family, 'cause none of them got it. So when you start from a place of your whole thing is based on, Look at me. I'll show you. That is not the healthiest spot. And now you can't make me feel bad. Now you can't shut me down. Now I'm gonna have a voice. So I'm mad at my grandmother. I'm mad at the kids in my neighborhood that made me stutter because I was too afraid to speak. That's not gonna happen again. In fact, I'm gonna be able to speak better than all of you. In fact, words are gonna become my thing.

Wow.

But I didn't know that I was working with all that. Because once I started, I was just running. So it wasn't until I started therapy at the age of 40 that I realized that I'd been running my entire time, running without intention, going back to the thing, I was just running. Let's go. Every run, let's go. I will not look back. Let's go. That's what I do.

Do you think human face can be truly happy and have inner peace inside of them. If they are constantly running and they never take a look at, take a second to look back and address and create harmony and new meaning around the memories that causes pain and forgiveness of ourselves and others, do you think we can find happiness and peace without some point turning around and creating amends with our younger selves?

Of course we can't, no. I think if you live in a state of even with all the fame.

And all the success and everyone telling you, you're amazing and you've got this.

Gift and talent, not even in, it's in, it's, it's, is it in spite of? Because if you live in a state of flight or, or fight, when do.

You, you're constantly running from something, when do you stop?

And then when you do stop? Because you, because you know, at a certain point when, and I don't care if this is the biggest Instagram influencer or somebody who has 20,000 followers, as soon as one person says, Hey man, I know you, I like that hit of dopamine that you get. in the early stages, oh, that feels amazing. So you start chasing that drug, that feeling, that feeling because that makes you feel better. And that paycheck that lets you buy whatever the thing is, that, oh, now I'm happy 'cause I feel better. But like any drug, I assume, 'cause I'm not a, you know, I'm not a goody-goody, but because of that old lady slapped me in my head. I've never used drugs, but, But I drank so I can only imagine like any drug or liquor or anything that you take that this feels so good right now. The law of diminishing returns. It can't feel great after a certain point. It's just it's just cool. It's like whatever. So then you're running and running, you're running and you're running and running and running. and like I talked about that battery, it wasn't until later on that I realized what that was. That truly is the physiological effects of that. When you're adrenaline, that you have to create adrenaline, you know, your thyroid and as you get older, you burn, those things burn out. and I just did a panel, your blood work and everything. And as you get older, of course your testosterone lowers and everything happens. But when I saw what my numbers were in terms of my adrenal gland, in terms of my testosterone, in terms of things that you take for granted, because you're going, you're going all your life and you're fighting, you're fighting, you're fighting this, I'm gonna fight that person, I'm gonna fight online, I'm gonna fight this job, I'm gonna fight this thing, I'm gonna forget, That's the battery. Nature took that battery. It said, Hey, look, man. You've been doing this for too long and too much. Let's just bloop and force you to sit down. Force you to sit down. That's real. That is absolutely real.

How would you keep the mindset? Because I know that that has happened over the last 25 years in different stages of your life in show business. But whenever I have watched you on TV, you look like you have all the energy in the world, all the creativity, the spontaneity, the genius in you comes out in those moments. But I'm assuming, I don't wanna assume that much, but based on what I'm hearing you say, there's probably days where you're like, I don't wanna go to this show right now.

There's so many days like that.

How do you keep your mindset in a place of, I'm here to deliver and perform a great performance than you can do while your battery is drained. How did you learn to do that?

I think a piece of me just says that it's a sim as simple as I'm an old school showman and a performer and you know that adage the show must go on. Wow. Which is also one of the most toxic, self-toxic sayings. Yeah, the show must go on. I've learned to perform through family tragedies, through migraines, through ripped ACLs, but anyone I think that functions at a certain level, an athlete, especially athletes, that have injuries. Play with injuries and then you go home and you'll collapse later. An athlete, a dancer, an actor, the CEO of a company.

Yeah, you gotta show up, make money.

You show up and you're given a presentation, nobody's sitting there like, oh, you know what? Let's go ahead and write a check anyway, even though I know that he's sad right now or he has a migraine. No, it's okay, don't give the speech. Don't make the stockholders happy. We're good. That's not gonna happen.

You're gonna show up. But how did you develop that mindset for so long? Like it's been decades for you showing up and performing. Like how do you keep your mind strong when your emotions or your heart feels weak?

I developed that as a kid. I think that was one of the first things that I developed being on stage. It's like, this is my, I developed that because if you derive all of your identity and everything that is good you think in your life from the thing you do, if you don't do that thing well or it goes down at some point, then what does that say about you?

Interesting.

So I developed very early on I might suck at relationships. Which I do. I might suck at this and I can't cook that thing, I'll burn this, I'll... But, I tell you what, I will get on that stage and I will kill that.

So don't even... And if you don't kill it, what does that say about you?

Right, then I have slash and/or am nothing.

Wow.

So I have no choice. so whatever I'm feeling, I am going to drag myself on that stage and do it. But that also only works for X amount of time. And now, you know, like I was saying, being in being in fright or flight, I understand that more so because no matter how much sometimes I go, all right, I'm going to get rid of it. If you're not in total agreement and accordance, with your mind and your spirit and your body, it becomes harder to do. And I only assume, 'cause I haven't gotten there yet and I don't plan on it 'cause I'm doing the work, I only assume there does come a time when the machine will not go. No matter what you say.

You can't out-think it.

You can't out-think it. Right? Like it's gotta have some, it's gotta just break down. It has to. So that's my thing. I'm not gonna let that happen. So that's my so I think that to any performer watching, that's why I feel that your intention has got to be set because you've got to think of this in the long term. You have to think of it as not a sprint. You have to think of your career as a marathon. I'm going to lay the seeds. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to take care of myself each step of the way.

Did you think you were a bad kid?

No.

Do you think you're a good kid?

Absolutely. I knew I was a good kid. Absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt. But also, what do you think of as a good kid?

Did you believe you were a good person, like a good human? Even when other people were bullying you and picking on you and saying you can't do something?

Oh, absolutely. Because none of that ever, because that's why I asked you, it depends on what your connotation of good or bad kid is. Like when I think someone, they say that you're a bad kid, You're either bad, bad to your parents, which is a construct, which in therapy, you know, that comes back to you like, well, I was bad. I shouldn't have done that thing. I was bad. I fell off the wagon. I was bad. But as a kid, I know that I listened to my dad. Yeah. Mother. I know that I was a good student. I tried to do my thing. I know I didn't intentionally hurt anybody. So my value, in terms of that, was cool.

But in terms of your identity, My.

Identity wasn't even good or bad. It was like, I wish I would have been accepted. And that's why I even said, you know, that unreliable narrator. Now if I could go back, I know there were times when I think it's a cycle. You feel unaccepted because this guy, like just off the top of my head, and this is stuff that I'm going to watch this podcast later and go back and write down the stuff I said so I could put it in the book and the script.

Yeah.

I remember a guy named Alan. I don't even know what grade I was in. Maybe third, maybe fourth, fifth grade. I remember Alan and I being in the bathroom and him saying something to me to the effect of, I don't remember the exact words, but especially as a kid and especially where I was from, you know, one of the worst insults that you could call somebody. is to call them gay or to use. Yeah, use. You use the F word. Yes. You're gonna talk track. So, yeah, really clever. So I remember being in the bathroom doing some. Something. Alan. I mean, going, stop looking at my.

My.

My. You. You must be a insert F F word. You get it. Like, it came out of nowhere. I was like, I don't. Why would you. I don't know. I was so sheltered that I didn't even know what he was talking about at first. I was like, I don't know.

You asked about it later. Right.

Until I asked somebody, I didn't even know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, that's what she was. And so even when someone's saying something like that, it's not a matter of being bad, it's a matter of like, well, why am I, what did I do that I am so different or not acceptable? So I don't think it's a matter of good or bad, I think it's why am I so unacceptable? Why don't I fit? How can I fit? What can I do to fit in? Why don't I? So let me try whatever I can do to fit in so that maybe I'm not called these names so that maybe I can hang out with these people and do these things.

You're celebrated and accepted and not outcast.

Right.

Did you ever learn how to accept yourself?

Not until recently.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. Not until recently.

So were you, you know, and I'm not sure if you were cautious or unconscious about this, but were you chasing something to be accepted by others?

Absolutely. And I think you talk to most performers or anyone in the spotlight. I mean, that is the I never chased fame. I'll be the first person to say that. I didn't care about being famous because that wasn't even in my mindset. So when I said I was 16 and run and run chasing, I was chasing the work piece of it because work equaled money, which equaled success, which equaled stability, which equaled the bragging rights, which equaled me being able to say, haha, look. But to me, Proven people wrong, yeah. Right. But I felt cool when I was just working at Universal Studios. as, you know, as the Ghostbuster in the theme park or, or, or the Wolfman or Dracula in the Beetlejuice rock and roll show, because I was making a living. So if, so if anyone would have said, said, do you feel good about yourself? Like, yeah, look, I'm on stage. Thousands of people see me each day. Granted, I'm dressed as the Wolfman and I'm break dancing and saying in a song, but I'm on stage. You're working again, paid. Right. So my scope of that just, I think, I think show business is one big theme park show. No matter if I'm hosting the AMAs in front of thousands of people there live and millions of people at home. Mandy and I, when we were doing our walkthrough, when I just hosted the show and before the show, when looking at the cameras and everything, we started laughing because we thought, this is just like being at Universal Studios, except it's on ABC in front of millions of people. But I'm at a theme park. Yeah. So fame was never, because I always look at it in that way. The fame wasn't a part of it. So I never chased that to make myself happy. I was chasing the work piece so I could have the financial gain so that made me feel good about myself.

When did you feel like you started to accept who you were and accept yourself and not need the outside acceptance? And maybe it's still a process you're in, right?

It is now. It absolutely is. Because I wish I could go, oh no, I learned, no, but you do chase that external and now, especially in the age of social media, because that is a, that's a barometer of how well you're doing in the world. And it's also a business thing now. Yeah, you want to make sure that what you're doing is accepted. Am I still relevant? Am I good enough? Am I, because those things impact your your, your, your work. But I think that my thing personally, still, I still have those issues from when I was a kid.

I think I saw one in your acceptance speeches of something. I don't remember if it was recently or not, but you're mentioning how you, you know, you didn't get in some cover band or something.

And you're like, oh, that said the AMAs. Yeah. Yeah. Which if that isn't that kid Wayne, speaking through grown-up Wayne doing a natty-natty boo-boo.

Right.

Because I wrote it into the thing as a bit of the comedy to set up the song. But it was real. I was like, you know what? Y'all didn't want to let me in your cover band.

And now look at me now.

So, right. Right.

But where, I mean, I know that feeling so well because most of my life I was chasing success as an athlete. you know, in college and professional sports and then in business transitioning it because I was picked last on sports teams over the girls. I was picked last because I was made fun of and in special needs classes all the way through college and couldn't read and write and just struggled in school and had similar, you know, bullying tactics towards me. And I always remember feeling like I don't belong, I don't fit in. So what can I do? My gift was sports. to say, okay, you're never going to pick me last again. I'm always going to be the most valuable person on every team I play on.

Yes.

And I will work harder than anyone. Even if I don't have the size or the speed or the natural strength, I will do anything and everything to be as successful as possible so that people have to pick me. That was me for most of my life until I hit about 30, about 10 years ago. I just turned 40 last month. And I realized, wow, I was, you know, as successful as I could take my sports career professionally, right? And I played with the USA national team for eight years for a sport called team handball. And I was driving in business and making money and building my personal brand and getting all this acknowledgement. And I remember at 30, my entire life was still breaking down in every relationship because I was so focused on chasing success as opposed to feeling self-love. feeling acceptance of me and all the parts of me from my first memory until then. And it wasn't until I was able to start looking back and healing and mending and forgiving others and myself and accepting all the parts of me when I started to have some growth. And it's been a 10-year journey of healing and facing these things, but it's been a process. And so I know, you know, similar feeling of like, I left home when I was 13 and I was like, get me out of this place. I need to get away and start new and, you know, chase something. So I understand that feeling of not being accepted. And I don't think anyone listening or watching likes the feeling of not being accepted. And what I've learned is, you know, for nine months, I had a photo of my five-year-old self on my screensaver a few years ago. I did so much work on facing my little Louis inside of me and asking him, what did you need to hear? What did you need to feel? What did you need to experience in this moment at seven, at nine, at 12? I had some of the most profound healing experiences emotionally within me by creating those kind of spiritual exercises for myself, my younger self. I'm curious, it sounds like you've been starting some of this inner child healing and addressing some of it. What is it you think, you know, little Wayne at five, seven and nine and 12 really needed to feel and hear that you didn't receive?

Well, first off, thank you for sharing that with me. And I know that your viewers and listeners have heard it. But in listening to you and listening to those things and seeing even as you talk, talk about it, looking in your eyes and seeing you get transported back to those places, oh man, I feel for you. And what's interesting is I know that there's still someone that will watch this at some point. Because I just think it's human nature that'll go, well, why you griping? Look at you, man. You still, you got the School of Greatness, so shut up. You did the thing. But it's deeper than that. Yes, you did the thing, but I feel you did it out of self-defense, out of there being no other option. And I know that feeling to want to be you said to be the most valuable player. That's how I've always wanted to be is like, I will be the MVP.

Of every show, of every stage.

If I do something, I will be the MVP in that group. You will remember it will be. So to hear that just, oh man, I just feel for you because I.

Know that But the last two and a half years of healing that and really having a beautiful relationship with my psychological five-year-old, seven-year-old, 12-year-old, 17-year-old self that was not feeling accepted, that was not feeling loved, that really hated myself and would say mean things to me all the time. It's been a beautiful journey because I always felt chest pain and heart palpitations throughout stages of life. pain, tightness in my throat. I don't know if that you can relate to that. Yes.

That's why as you say it, yeah. Oh my God.

And, and I would have like a ball, I almost feel like a ball of pain in my chest that would come and go. I could manage it sometimes through like having good habits and sleeping and eating well and working out, but it's still always there. And a lot of it was because I wasn't willing to heal and face the scariest parts about the shames, the insecurities, the things that I felt like I was not enough in. And it took me many, many months of exercises and practice and emotional coaching with support to where there was one day, this ball of pain that did not seem like it was going away. It literally popped and disintegrated throughout my body. And I'm getting chills now thinking about it because It like something released inside of my chest. I don't know how to explain it, but the pain released, disintegrated. I felt like all over my body kind of this fluid flushing through my body. And I was like, that's interesting. This thing just went away and it hasn't come back since it almost two years ago. And it's been extremely profound. It's probably the hardest work I've ever done in my life, harder than any sports training, any business that I've launched was facing the parts of me that I was the most afraid of, and allowing myself to feel self-love without needing someone else to love me or accept me or celebrate me, but me celebrating me. And it was, it's, it's something I want everyone to feel and experience because I suffered for so many years of my life, and I know a lot of people are suffering.

-Absolutely.

-And people can be super successful and still suffer. deeply inside.

Absolutely. Yes. In fact, you, there, there's no, of course, you, you, you can't prove this by any true standard, but I would dare say you, it's sitting home watching your favorite athlete or performer on stage or musician or, or CEO of the biggest business that you're like, ah, that life, that person that I could be like that, yeah. That person probably goes home and.

Is.

Just absolutely lonely and somewhat broken. And I know some of those people.

I know you've seen those people for the last 20 years here, 30 years.

Yeah, man. And to hear you even say, you know, that thing that dissolved, Mine was going back to that thing of like when I was a kid, the pressure in my jaw and the headache for years, the headaches that went along with when I would feel that I was being... My trigger is feeling disrespected or looked down upon in any given situation.

That was your wound.

That's such a trigger.

That's a button. I'm going does that.

And it could be, it could be my daughter that says something that makes me go, it could be my partner, it could be my friend, it could be someone that I'm a random stranger, it could be somebody online. Immediately I go to rage. Because how dare you? Right. Because that's so hard. Don't disrespect to go to that place. So I wish, I love your journey and that's inspiring to me because I have started the work with the, and it is some of the hardest work to go back and deal with the past traumas and to address yourself then and to, I've started it, but I have not by any stretch of the imagination finished it. And I do wish that I could go back.

It's a journey, you know? It's a, healing is a journey. It's not a destination where it's like, I'm healed and this, you know, it's never gonna affect me anymore. I'm done.

Yeah.

I'm great. Although that pain has subsided that was in my chest for decades. off and on. I still feel anxious and stressed and overwhelmed at times, but I feel so much more sense of inner peace that I've never had in my life. But I'm also practicing it every couple of weeks with an emotional coach.

You have to.

It's like, I'm not like, okay, I've figured it out and I'm done addressing this. It's almost a constant progressing beyond and reconnecting with the parts of ourselves that we neglected or ran away from. and making sure that we are in congruence, like you talked about, like heart, mind, congruence, where we are in alignment of the parts we're shamed of, the parts where we haven't forgiven ourselves of or that we held onto for too long, or the things that we resented in others, and we create that healing and alignment. And again, I'm not an expert except for my own experience of what I've learned from it, but I know there is peace and freedom on the other side if people are willing to face and address these things.

I love that and that's what I want. That's what I'm working towards. I think that's what anyone who starts this journey.

Yeah.

Ultimately that's what we want and I feel like, you know, I want that peace but not only do I want that peace for myself, you know, I look at my father. My father passed when he was 45.

How old are you now?

I'm 50. So I always had this clock My dad passed when I was, I think I was 23, 23 or 24.

So he didn't really get to see you make it that, you know?

No, but he did get to see me work really, really fast. I'll just say when I, I guess maybe I was 19, 20. No, no, 20 or 21, I booked these two really big roles back to back. Being in Orlando, the work was always in Atlanta. So I got on a Greyhound bus six hours to Atlanta to get to audition for the first thing was on this NBC show called I'll Fly Away, the civil rights drama. And I booked a recurring role. And it was in the newspaper in Orlando, 'cause, I mean, slow news day and local boy does good and ends up, you know, on a network show. and then right after that, I booked this old TV show in the heat of the night, starring Carol O'Connor of Archie Bunker fame. And he was also the director. Well, he was the one that cast me. I auditioned for the role of this thug, and especially when I was 17, 18, this skinny, tall kid, I was not, I was definitely not going to be the thug. And as I'm walking back to go get my Greyhound bus, the casting director ran back and said, Carol wants to talk to you. And I went in and I'm just starstruck. This was the first star that I really met. It's Carol O'Connor. You know, when I'm kid, I'm watching Archie Bunker. He said, Son, do you know anybody with autism or who's on the spectrum? I said, Yes, I have a cousin who's on the spectrum. And I know, you know, I love him and I know what he acts like. Read this, go back and read this. And I went and I applied what I knew of my cousin to it. and I booked the role, I got the job, big two-part episode. So two and a half weeks of work in Georgia in this town called Conyers. Conyers was about 20 minutes from where my dad was living. Wow. I hadn't seen my dad in a couple of years at that point. I drove up to where my dad was. I went in. He was so proud of me. I told him that I was working up the street doing the thing. He saw that I had done the other NBC show and we hadn't really seen each other spoken after I graduated high school because my family was basically angry that I decided to go into show business because I turned down a couple of scholarships to a couple of really big universities.

They didn't like that.

To follow that path. And I hated being a student. That was one of my things because I maybe had the opposite of your thing because you said that you were placed in those special learning programs. I was always shoved into every AP course and everything else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it wasn't that I didn't mind it, but some of it, the expectations of, oh, you should be able to do that. I couldn't do some of it. I was taking general math at the same time that I'm in AP English and AP studies. I felt so stupid at some points. I'm like, I don't understand these figures that are in front of my face. so I had a whole issue with that. So I said, once I'm out of school, I'm done. I'll continue to learn, but I'm not doing that anymore. So we had a whole thing. So I see my dad, I tell him that I'm working on this show. He hugged me, we sat down, he was like, you want a beer? He called up a couple of his friends, he said, my son is working, he's doing this thing with Archie Bunker, blah, blah, blah. And then later I moved to LA, and so a couple of years later, that's when he passed. So I always had this clock of my dad had a massive coronary when he was 45. I didn't know my dad well, so I still don't even really know his health issues well. I know that he suffered from a lot of, like a lot of Vietnam veterans. He had PTSD. He was struggling with a lot of stuff. I know that he might have been on, on, on what? The, the on antidepressants and. Excuse me. And whatever he was going through for his heart. So when he passed, the media was like, I'm gonna die when I hit 45.

Oh man.

And I never talked to anybody about it. I just knew I had a clock.

Holy cow.

So you're running. So that whole fight, fight or flight thing, that was in full gear. So I just knew. So whatever I was gonna do, I had to finish it before 45. I was ready to go. So the fact that I have lived longer than my dad, so the fact that I've done those things, that's one of the joys that I can not enjoy that might my dad, but that's one of the things that I can actually go, look, Wayne, look, man, just look. That was an unfounded fear. You're breaking trauma. You are breaking this thing. So just calm down. Just try to learn. Just try to heal yourself. You still have time. You still have time. and that's what I'm trying to work on now. That's why I'm in therapy. And I wish I could say that I do my. That my therapy game is perfect. It's far from perfect. I will absolutely avoid my therapist on some days. It's not fun, man. I was like, nope, not going, because I feel in. As soon as we leave here, I've got an hour session with him because I'm so inspired by you. I've gonna. We've been talking about the child childhood thing, and I've been avoiding some.

Some of it.

Because I don't want to talk to that kid. Because there are a couple of things that it's easy to talk to the kid when I go, Hey, look what you did, man. You were starring in this TV show where you just created a show and you're on this thing, but it's hard to talk to the kid when I have to address very specific hurts because I don't want to revisit them. So even just for today, just talk, talking to you, I'm going to go and I'm going to have a conversation and begin a piece of that process.

That's beautiful, man.

It's work.

And I'm not here to have you revisit those painful moments. I'll let you do that in therapy. But I'm curious if you could have a conversation. What would he need to hear from an adult that truly loves him and accepts him? What would you have needed to hear at five, seven or nine?

Just off the top of my head and just really trying to think about this, I think it I think five. I'm trying to picture that kid at five. I think even starting at five, if I were that adult, I would hug him. Never underestimate the value of affection of a hug on a child. My grandmother loved me. She with you couldn't tell her nothing about me. She loved the pants off me. But affection was in short supply. She wasn't that person. We were not those people. I was affectionate. I was very affectionate. That's one of the things that I've gone back in that work. I always was on me, you could not pry me off of my grandmother. And once I was there, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, she loved me. But I initiated it and I don't know, nobody else in my family was like that. So I learned that I need this, please give me that. So I would hug him. And then maybe when I was ten, I have a memory of my sister and I, I've got a younger sister that came to live with us, of us playing with these other kids. And part of my memory is that Wayne even now that loves to shut down and shut everybody out. Because if I'm like that, then you can't hurt me or whatnot. I remember these other kids trying to play with us and I completely put up this wall and I was like, no, don't talk, talk, don't talk to them because they're going to say mean stuff and we're better than them. And we're better, just, who says that? But that's a story that I had to tell myself at that second because I didn't want to be hurt. I would go to him and go, Hey, you can be completely open and don't try to, don't shut everybody out. Don't shut everybody out and be, and build this armor. Because even the Wayne that when you say that you watched on a show or even for when I start, when I teach acting classes, I always say, know your strengths. And I know that for me, one of my strengths is when dealing with an audience, I make you feel like I am completely open to you. And I'm not going to say the word charming because you don't call yourself charming, but I do know that I have a thing that I can draw people in and I can make you feel good and I can feel good. And we've got that thing and I'll smile at you and we do that. But as soon as I step off stage, then I am very much the whole thing, the armor is back on.

Really?

And it's not because I'm a looper, I think I'm better than, it's because I'm not on stage anymore. I'm gonna protect myself now. Wow. And I would tell the Wayne that develops that armor, which can sometimes seem aloof, which every blue moon someone has run up on me in real life and, and maybe it was the day that they were expecting. Hey, Wayne, you've been in like, yeah, hi.

Wow.

But you did it. They just caught me on that day was never to offend anybody was I have gotten so used to protecting myself. So I would try to go back and and tell that kid, Hey, it's okay to be open. It's okay. You don't have to not everybody is trying to punch you in your face, man.

Wow, man, this is powerful.

Yeah.

I don't think I've ever heard you talk about this stuff in interviews.

This deep- I think I've definitely started talking about it more in the past couple years because it's the only way I'm trying to reach a point by the time I leave this earth, Nacala Wood, which I hope is many years from now, that I can honestly say I'm living in transparency and also taking control of my narrative. because even in a bigger stretch, even in terms of my work, I know that for some people in this business, I've been placed in a box and I fight that box all the time. Whether it's because there's work that I want to do and work that I'm creating, but they're like, oh, well, Wayne Brady doesn't do those things because I see I like him when he does that, that, and talk about, well, talk about fueling the resentment train. Don't even get, that's a whole I'm, oh yeah, like mad? Don't even talk to talk about that. But, but the only way that I can break that and take back my narrative of and letting me really express myself creatively and doing some of the roles that other people are in control of, I believe is to truly, instead of being the smooth way that is on these shows and that has From my time on who's Line 2, that's how I'll go along to get along is you'll never know anything about me. And that armor will make me smooth and I'll smile at you and we'll do a thing. But that's all it is. I'm going to keep this at bay by letting myself be open and being more transparent and showing the cracks in the armor, the wrinkle here, the blemish there. I can show that this is real life and I'm a real person who is capable of not only artistically delving and doing the things that I want to do, but I'm a real person who maybe my story can touch and affect someone.

This is really inspiring and I want to be respectful of your time.

I think we only have about seven minutes left.

Make sure I get you out of here. -I'm going to ask you questions for hours. -yeah. Um, because I feel like I could ask you questions for, for hours. But I've got a couple final questions for you.

Yeah, but please.

Before I finish these final three questions that I ask everyone towards the end, I wanna ask you if you're open to try something and feel free to say no. This is coming to me, we can edit this out if you don't wanna do it.

Let's see.

Let's see. I'm curious if you could, I don't even know where I'm going with this, but I wanna see if there's something here. I'm curious if you could.

Remember, Afken, we said that the best type of improvisation is a conversation. Yes. So, so, so this is the yes and so, so yes and so I'm.

Curious if you'd be open to doing some type of recap of this conversation in some type of artistic way. From the things that you've talked about, if you could go back in the last hour and a half and pull in all the conversations that we've had, if you'd be able to, I don't know if, I don't want to call it a song or something, but if there's a way you could improv or, or a rhyme or something of a recap, kind of your strength of what you do best. And we don't have, we can cut this out if this is a, doesn't make sense, but I'm curious if there's something there.

It's interesting. Let's see. You know, we don't have any music, so, so I don't know if I would call it. A straight up rap, but let's see if there's some sort of a some sort of read recap. Yes. That's interesting.

It could be 60 seconds, it could be a 30 seconds, a couple minutes, whatever speaks to your heart, whatever's on your mind from the conversation we've had, what it's brought up for your life in the past and where you were intending to head in the future.

Let's see, just off the top, your top of my head. Okay. so I've been challenged right now on this very spot to create this. Here I am sitting down on the spot, the school of greatness. I tried to arrive on time, so you can't impugn me or talk about my lateness. All right, put on the spot. I do this fairly well, so I can hate this. So let me start. I go back again. Where can I begin? I mentioned I felt like a superhero. So this is the story of my origin. Kid raised in Tangelo Park, complexion chocolate, very, very dark to parents from the Caribbean. Thinking of all of the places and the dark spots that I've been again thinking of how I was raised, thinking of the, the, the things that have been said that stuck in my psyche, thinking and dreaming in my mind in my room ruminating on the great man that I might be keeping these dreams and visions to myself because I felt that maybe I could see visions of wealth. Fame was never really on the chalkboard. It wasn't something that I saw. Really, I was thinking more of a car or never get in trouble with the law. Using that type of privilege that money could be and that would be that. Trying to become so rich that one day maybe my green would equal black. Trying to work my way out of the neighborhood by using these skills that I would develop and thinking about the relationships, a hug from my grandma in her arms that I could be enveloped, being bussed to one school and saying that I wasn't white enough, then back with the other kids, not black enough where life was tough. I swore to myself as soon as I started to work that I'd be the person on top. You couldn't call me a jerk or any other type of name that would come out of your mouth. If I mentioned this before, I'm from Orlando, deep in Florida, the deep south. So every single day was a battle. Every single day was war. Every single day was some type of fight with words and barbs that I tried to ignore. So I took it on the chin, kept it, and sometimes I felt my heart would break. I couldn't speak it loud at home, so I would develop this high, this horrible headache. I had a migraine that wouldn't go away. The only way to stop it is to do a job and get that money, there's something in the store, and I'd go out and I'd cop it. I learned early on that affluence was meant to attain wealth, and I equaled it very foolishly with wealth would equal great health. And I moved from Orlando, I was a musician and a dancer, I was an actor, and doing all these things, I would just take my chance. So I went to Japan, I sang overseas, I came, I did things, I did everything to the best of my ability. From Broadway to stage, I learned to improvise. I thought I was being smart, I thought that street smarts equaled wise. I just kept on running, running, running until the feeling would settle in. And then I'd recognize now that I was running on pure adrenaline. I met my ex-wife, well, my ex-ex-wife, 'cause I was married twice. But the second marriage, it worked out rather nice. I met her in Hawaii. We both moved here in '95. And then later on we had a child. She's 20, so for 20 years we've managed to keep her alive. Between the two of us, we had ups and downs. We worked at theme parks and theater. We did every single thing. All we can do with that paper chase and my daughter, the greatness that I could see in her, all I wanted to do was to create. Fame, I didn't want it. All I wanted was the external things, a nice car and a house so I could flaunt it. But then people knew my name, but then with people knowing your name came with a greater awareness and you'd have to learn to play the game. So I put on the shield and I put on the gloss and I'd sit there and smile at the ABC and the CBS, at the boss. And inside, I was just angry as can be. I was ready to snap on anybody at any second if I thought they were disrespecting me. Still, it wasn't until the age of 40 that I realized I needed therapy. Because my daughter, she said, Daddy, I don't want you to die. Those are real words that she shared with me. So in the decades since and in my experience, I've kept on trying. My dad, he passed at 45, so every day that's the number that I keep that I kept from dying. So now all I can do is day by day live my life. Single, we've talked about how bad it was in relationships, not necessarily looking for a wife. First, I've got to work on myself and establish a relationship with the deity from above because just like RuPaul said, and I'm paraphrasing, you need self-love. So that's where I am. I'm working at this point to parenting Lil Wayne. And so here on the School of Greatness, my life story, I hope in this rhyme I've explained.

Oh my goodness. That is incredible, man.

Wow.

That was amazing.

Oh, thanks. Now I'm lightheaded. Good, I'm glad I did it. That's amazing, man.

Thank you for the read.

That was, again, on the spot recap. Thanks. No one has ever asked me to do that. You win for the most original thing that has happened in an interview.

That's incredible, man.

Well, thanks.

Again, I love You said to focus on your gifts. And so I wanted you to be able to use some of that gift because, you know, we talked more about the emotional side of things, but which is what I'm most curious about, or fascinated about human beings and what makes them become great and what made them run from pain that turned into greatness. And how can we also create that inner peace while we are using our gifts and our talents so that we're not in shame or hurting or in pain? But we are using our talents to make an impact on others.

Which I love that. And just to add as an addendum to this, to folks watching, we've talked about all the negative stuff that forges you. But the positive piece of it is, just like you were saying, to use your gifts. The positive piece is when I was a kid, I developed whatever the natural thing is that I have that I put technique to later. But the natural inquisitive nature that makes me want to learn, that made me want to read everything, that made me a sci-fi nerd, a history geek, a musical lover to be able to write songs on the spot, to do these characters, to do these things that I did create when I was a kid in that room by myself, that ball of creativity that I was able to year by year and as I've gotten older to use that, to use that as my way to express myself so that whether it's an hour and a half show, whether it's a Broadway show, whether it's my improv show, whether it's a game show or playing a character, I was able to channel that into my thing and to be able to have something that you have built and grown. I wish that everyone did have that. I wish that everyone would have something of themselves that they can develop that talent because that is a shot at greatness. To become an outlier in something, to be able to put in your 10,000 hours at something and go beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could look you in the eye, that I could look at anybody watching in the eye, I look the audience in the eye every night and go, I am great at this beyond a shadow of a doubt. No matter what my other stuff is going on, I do this. And this is something that cannot be taken away from me unless I let it. So that is a beauty, that is a beautiful thing of being able to have that art come out of that pain.

Mm. Man. How, again, I've got, I still have these couple of final questions, but how can we, how can we best be of service to you? I want people to follow you over on Instagram and your TikTok.

Oh, thanks.

Your website. We'll have it all linked up here.

Yeah, that come, come and follow me on my Instagram at Mr. Brady Baby. MR. Brady Baby. My TikTok is Wayne Brady. And I think that those are the two, two that I use the most, of course, on Facebook, if you find me. I'm the official Wayne Brady.

How else can we be of service to you?

Wow, that is such an amazing thing to, I think even on Instagram, reach out, because here is the thing that we've talked about all this other stuff, some of the things that I'm trying to put out into the world. I'm trying to, during the pandemic, one of the good things to come up was In the conversation around race and Black lives mattering and these voices and giving voices to voices that aren't heard, one of the things that came up was in the world of comedy. You know, UCB and Second City and some of the giants in comedy here in LA, a lot of stories came about the inequities of how minorities were maybe treated in those spaces. And my my goal, my dream, is to create a space where the kid that looks like me or the kid that doesn't look like your average person in a sketch group or an improv group or whatnot can find a safe space to develop those talents. If I would have, that's one of the things I think that really helped me is when I was, I think I was 18 or 19 when I started really doing improv and learning the art. I learned it from a group that became my friends and my family at the time, a SAC theater out in Orlando, S-A-K. So if any of you in the South, you know, go to Orlando SAC theater. I helped form this thing called the SAC Theater Comedy Lab. And that's where I learned the art of being funny, not where I learned to be funny, the art of building And of course, I was the only person that looked like me. And I didn't know that when I did Whose Line that it was such a big deal that I was the only person that looked like me in that little group. But I want to create a space here in Los Angeles, one in Orlando, and hopefully one in New York, where I can make it okay for these kids to come into this space to use their minds, to use their imaginations, to feel free, to play because that's what I do. All of this serious talk aside, when I'm on stage, I'm playing. I'm playing like a little kid. I want them to engender that sense of play and to embody it and to feel it and to also teach them a bigger conversation about the art, not just the art of improv, but the things that I feel that help me. So giving courses in history. giving courses in singing, dancing, acting, how all those pertain to improv and sketch and writing. So hopefully I can create a generation of writers and even kids that don't go into show business. How amazing to be able to have the confidence because you've taken an acting class or an improvisation class to be able to speak in, which is one of the fears I think that most humans have speaking in front of, yeah. and assemblage. So it's like, yeah, I'll share with you now one of the scariest things in the world, to give them the confidence to take that into a job interview, take that into work, know that you can walk into a place and I can talk to anybody in this room and feel confident. I would love to be able to bring that. So we are starting an academy. I started to partner with Freestyle Love Supreme, Lin-Manuel's group, my buddy Anthony's group, to be able to bring an academy like that to life?

How can people support or be a part of that? Or should they sign up for a.

Newsletter to be contacted me on Instagram? The way that I'm building that slowly is I'll be doing workshops in the middle of all the other stuff I'm doing. I'm gonna start doing workshops here in Los Angeles and at other places in the country, doing free, free improv workshops and public speaking improv workshops.

So if that's interesting for people, they should DM you on Instagram or they can comment below.

And someone will get back to you and I'll put together a mailing list and it has to start small at the grassroots level. It's amazing, man.

Yeah. So make sure you guys reach out.

And send them a message on Instagram. And I'll definitely hit you up to.

Come in and be a speaker. So please not- I'm in.

I'm in, man.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths question. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. Yes. It's your last day on earth many years away. You get to live as long as you want to live. But eventually you got to turn the.

Lights off in this life.

Right. And you have created everything you want in your life from where you are now at 50 until the last day you get to create and make an impact and do the things you love and have the family and the relationships you want.

I love that.

But for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, everything you've created has to go with you. So no one has access to this workshop and this conversation and any TV show you've ever done. All those videos are all- so you're.

Erased from It's hypothetical. Okay, yeah.

No one has access to your content anymore.

Got it.

But you get to leave behind three things that you know to be true from your life. From all of your experiences, from your first memory till, you know, 50 plus years away from now, last memory. What would be those three truths that you would leave behind if we had no other access of your content or information?

That really is one of the best questions I think I've ever heard. That's a wow. Three truths. Okay. Well, I guess there's self-truths. So the first one that I can think of is, like I said earlier, I think approach life with intention and I'm going to steal something from my barber, my man Trey, who said something to me a couple of days ago that I think goes along with that. That then I went, what'd you say? Oh, I'm stealing that. He said, have a good day on purpose. So I think definitely the intentional piece of don't let life be something that we just get up and we do because we're lucky enough to still be breathing when we wake up. It's like, all right, it's Tuesday. It's cool. No, it's Tuesday. Let's go. Whatever that is, let's go. So I think that that's one. Live with intention. It may not always work out, but live with intention. Another one of my truths is, family is everything. But then in parentheses, that family is whatever you make it. So I don't necessarily mean your auntie and your brother, your cousin, or folks that your family is whoever is good for your soul and is on your team. Not, not blood does not necessarily make family. I have a family. I have people in my family by blood that I love. But I will say one of the best things about my time here in Los Angeles all over these near 30 years is I made a family. I made a family with my ex-wife, Mandy, who now is my, I do believe she's my soulmate. I've made a family with her, with her partner, Jason. I've made a family with my biological daughter, but with the, we call ourselves the core four, with Jason, Mandy Miley, and now they have a son, Sunny. That's a family that we chose to stay together. Mandy and I did not have to be in each other's lives. In fact, some would say it would be easier sometimes to make a quick cut and be like, okay, well I can just go in and do everything I want to. But most of the good things that have happened in my life, it's because of my relationship with Mandy and the faith that she's had in me and the love that I get from her.

Your ex-wife.

Yes, yeah, my ex-wife and her support and this beautiful daughter that we've made together. and the things that we are still trying to put out and make in the world right now.

-Wow. -Because she's your business partner on a lot of things.

-She'S my business partner. And we have our company, and she is my-- we right now have a show that we're shooting for a major streamer that is based on our family. -Wow. -because of our dynamic. And I have other friends here in Los Angeles, like my brother Harrison, who I worked with in theater, who is Mandy's godfather, to Chris from Hawaii, that I've got people who I know that if I call them and said, Hey, I'm in jail, come bail me out, or I need you because I just need a cry.

Yeah.

So make your family. That's your family. Don't make your family. Okay. And lastly, and this is something that I'm still trying to learn, I ironically, because of my, because of one of my jobs and my profession is laugh at yourself. And for me, it is very hard to do because I always am very sensitive to, I never want to have the joke. I never want to be the joke. I always don't want to make the joke. And that comes from that. Little kid Wayne being laughed at or feeling like he was the butt of the joke and like you will not make fun of me now. So, but that being said, maybe if someone does make fun, the fun of you, it's not gonna kill you. And if what they're saying isn't true, then maybe laugh at it and don't give it as much power. That's something that I can definitely learn. Right. Yeah. That's beautiful, man.

I love these three truths. I have one final question before I want to ask it. I want to share what I see as possible for you.

Please.

What I see as possible for you is a human being filled with love, abundance, peace and health. A human being that feels a ton of self-love for who you are and accepted by you, all the parts of you. and someone that accepts all the parts of you as well. And what I see as possible for you is a human that continues to transition in using his gifts, not just to make a living, but to make others' lives more fulfilled, which is what you've done, but it wasn't what your intention was originally.

-Right.

-And I see for the rest of the time that you want to create in this circus world that we're in in show business, that you continue to intentionally create things that fuel you, your soul and your spirit, but also make a positive impact on others as part of your intention. And something I see as possible for you, and I really want to acknowledge you in the beginning, and I'm acknowledging you again for all the gifts you've had, the commitment you have to working and growing on yourself, 'cause it's a journey for me as it is for anyone. And the impact you've made, even though you don't know you've made it, I acknowledge you for all that you've done for the world. And I'm excited for you to step into understanding the impact you continue to make moving forward. So that's what I wanted to share before the last question.

Thank you for the- Of course. Thank you for that. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Yeah, of course.

And I accept that and I take that.

I love it.

And that's what I want.

I love it.

I love it.

Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

I'm going to go with my first mind. So as soon as you said greatness, my definition of greatness is and I've got to go with self greatness, not necessarily what other people think of you. I think my definition of greatness is striving for something, because who knows if it will ever really be achieved, but striving to be the pinnacle of a craft. or of being yourself, whatever that best version of that looks like. And I'm not talking about the version that competes with other people to be great because you won this or whatnot. No, it's to be great where you go, I love what I'm doing or I love this thing or myself so much.

That.

It transcends just a job, it transcends a hobby, it transcends, oh, I like clothes, it transcends, it becomes such a pure joyful state of being. That's what I equate with greatness, is joyful, that you are so joyful in this thing that you're in. and I'm still trying to achieve that. And I think I see snatches of it every blue moon, every time I'm on stage. I, oh, I like that. But the greatness of going, I feel so good in this space. I feel so good in myself. I feel great in my skin right now. That's greatness. I feel like I'm glowing. I think that's greatness. Achieving that state. So no matter what your job is or your thing, just achieving a state of I feel so joyful in it. And I hope that's clear because I know what I mean.

Yes.

Because as I'm saying it, I'm kind of feeling, you know, I feel it's like a picture, it's like that, it's like a, you know, and I always bring things back to superheroes and whatnot, but feeling that, that glow, like just being in the middle of it, whether it's in the middle of a great gig, your personal best, great greatness, I think is your personal best. That's what it is. Like, I don't care what you did, but I know it's like, whoo, I can't touch that. That's just, oh, oh, oh, oh, I feel that, and I'm glowing from it, and I feel it at the top of my head, and the energy is crackling out from my fingertips. When you hit that state, I think that's greatness. And being proud, proud of it. Greatness can't live in the shadows. Greatness can't live in shame. Right? So that's why I think you're so joyous and proud of whatever that thing is, because there's not a thing shameful about whatever you just did. or what you do to to feel to feel that. That's that state. I tell people all the time man the easiest thing in the world to do is to be negative.

So easy.

Easiest thing in the world to do is complain. Easiest thing in the world to do is to quit. That's easy. Me and you both can walk out of this building and see something on the streets of LA and say man that's whack and complain about it. Or we can look at it and say you know what man.