The Most EYE OPENING Speech On Why You're NOT HAPPY In Life... | Dr. Phil

I think we generate the results in life that we think we deserve. It's not about the money. It's about finding a way to be who you are in your own paradigm. You have to decide.

Wonder should people know that it's time to leave a dream they've accomplished or that it's so good, but it's not what they want anymore. Like, how can they let that go?

You know, the worst thing you could ever do is if you're pursuing the wrong dream or if your dream changes and you don't change with it. For example, let's say that you work to become the best accountant in the entire world and you achieve that goal only to find out that being the best accountant in the whole world was not what you really wanted to do. What you really wanted to do was be a drummer or sell shrimp out of a van down by the river. And you worked to become the best accountant in the world and you did. But once you got there, you realize this isn't what I wanted or it's what I wanted at one time, but it changed. I changed and I didn't evolve my goals with it. And you know, when I left that, I actually started a company in trial sciences called CSI before CSI was ever on TV, Courtroom Sciences Inc. And it was a trial science firm where we did trial strategy, jury selection, mock trials, shadow juries and trials.

That's how you met Oprah, right? Didn't you help her with the trial she was doing?

I helped represent her in the Mad Cow case in Amarillo.

And.

I did that for 12-15 years. I came to a point then, is right when I started Dr. Phil. And I remember the day that I hit the wall in that profession. I had done everything you could do. Every, I represented every major airline in the world. I represented all the nine major film studios out here. I represented half of the Fortune 100 represented, I was involved in the tobacco litigation, the breast implant litigation, everything you could imagine. I'd done virtually everything you can do in that profession. And I remember a day of building a truck pulled up in front of our building. was literally an 18-wheeler pulled up with a file for a case and the copy bill for the file was a million dollars.

Oh my gosh.

And it pulled up and I had one of those moments where I went, oh my God. And it was like, I really wish they hadn't pulled up.

Oh my gosh.

That's when it's time to go do something else.

Interesting.

When just to copy the files, a million dollars, that's good business. That's a good case. And you're going, oh, God.

You don't want to do it anymore.

That means I got to read it. That means I got to get involved in it. And I thought, It wasn't worth it anymore. I just, I'd done it all. And I was living on the road. I had trials going in Pittsburgh, LA, Houston, I mean all over the country. And I was traveling all the time and I thought, I've done it all I don't want to do anymore. And that made the decision to launch Dr. Phil real easy.

Did you have Dr. Phil already before then?

I've been doing Oprah in Chicago on a weekly basis for four or five years. Then it was time to launch Dr. Phil itself and I could have done both and I decided no, I'm gonna sell my interest in this and just go all in on.

What do you think would have happened if you did both as opposed to saying I'm gonna put all my effort and energy into this one platform?

I don't think I would have done justice to either one because I think I fastly found out when I got into doing my own show here, I fastly found out that this is not a part-time thing. I mean, this is a, you've got to be body and soul.

Yeah.

And, and be here just really involved in in content, format, story selection, everything from designing the studio to everything, it became all consuming. And I was into that about a month or two and realized that before we ever got on the air, a year before we were on the air and said, this is not something that you can do as a part-time thing, you either got to go all in or not at all.

And it sounds to me like you are extremely invested in the whole process of the show, of the production, of the crew, of the stories, every decision you're involved in. And I think a lot of people, I think I heard you talk about this somewhere actually, that people don't know how hard it is to do a talk show or anything of a big production. They think they can go in with their expertise and it'll be great. But you had decades of expertise, but then you had to develop so many other skills, it sounds like, right? To learn about TV, learn about content, learn about storytelling, and you haven't stopped.

It depends on, you can come out and be talent and show up and be a pretty face and do what you do. But if you're really going to succeed, and it's a different situation from the beginning, I own my own show 100%.

Wow.

And that just doesn't really happen. No. Nobody really does that. But I approached it as a business. and run it as a business. And to do that, you've got to be involved. And we launched the Doctors, which we own 100%. Wow. You know, we've launched other shows and, you know, we have a very.

Large.

Involvement in it at every level, you know, production, distribution, international, formatting everything and all the shows that we do.

So.

It'S not just a matter of showing up and doing that episode. It's a matter of your distribution deals domestically, foreign, formatting, your facilities, everything. So there's a lot that goes into it.

How long did it take for you to learn that process to be able to own 100%? Because you didn't own it 100% at first, did you?

No, I didn't. But the third year, I took over ownership of it at that point.

That's impressive, because it's a big undertaking. I mean, it's a big investment. It's a lot of like, could easily fail and, you know, lose all this money.

Yeah.

When we started out, I was a Harpo owned it, and I was a profit participant.

Okay. You got a talent fee plus an executive producer fee plus, yeah.

And it was a sharing in the profits. And then at that point we flipped and I became the owner and she became a profit participant. And she said exactly what you said. She said, if you wanna do it, you can. But understand you're taking on all of this and all the liabilities and stuff. And she said, I know you know that, but just know that's what you wanna do. You can do it. I said, I understand. And I did. And it's worked out great for her and for me. And we're still partners and it works out great.

So there's still profit sharing there for her then. That's amazing.

Yeah.

So it's no risk for her and she's still involved and that's exciting.

Yeah, she's a great partner.

And I saw that you, I love this about you, that you really care about your relationships, you really continue to acknowledge people for years after they've believed in you and supported you and I saw that you send Oprah two letters a year. for the last, I don't know, 20 years it sounds like. And this is something I think people don't understand, the power of an acknowledgement and the continued acknowledgement of just like a thank you and here's how much it means to me. When I saw a clip of you and her talking about that, she was like, you have no idea how much this means to me. Every year I get those. And you said, you don't get thanked enough in your life. Why is acknowledgement so important for you to continue to do, not just like, I thank you for giving me this, you know, opportunity. I'm done telling you thank you. Why is it important every year to do it for you?

Well, you know, I think you got to dance with who brung you. And, you know, I hate these people.

That.

You know, wake up on third base and think they hit a triple, as the old saying goes. I don't think there would be a Dr. Phil if it wasn't for Oprah. And, so, you know, here we are 20 years on and, you know, I've got a well-established brand and people know Dr. Phil and all of that and, you know, that's all well and good today. But 20 years ago, that wasn't the case. What was the case was that Oprah generously, unselfishly pushed me to the forefront. and I will never forget that. There were times when I was on the Oprah Show that she got off the stage, went into the audience, set up a table beside her chair for some hot tea, and said, Take over the number one platform in the history of television. It's yours. What do you got for me today?

And you hosted it.

And turned over the show. Wow. on a regular basis. You know, a lot of people and, you know, I enjoyed great success on the Oprah Show and there were a lot of people that would be threatened by that. That those were the highest ratings of the week most of the time. There were a lot of people that would maybe be threatened by that or whatever. Not her. She just kept pushing me to the forefront, pushing me further, pushing me further, pushing me further. And just unselfishly and generously did everything she could to establish me and my brand and support me and everything that I did when I came out here to launch the show. The first one I shot, she was in the control room. She came out at the breaks. She was there. I shot my 1000th show. She was there on the stage in the control room. 2000th show, she was there.

No way.

3000Th show, she was there. in the control room just, you know, just has been such a loyal, generous supporter and till the day I die, I will thank her for everything she's done for me and for my family. And I don't now enjoy this success and forget who brung me to the dance.

That's beautiful. And so do you have like a certain dates that you send these letters or is it, I mean, you guys talk all the time, I'm assuming on.

The phone and chat, but we do.

But why do you still think it's important to send letters even though you're talking on a consistent basis and telling her like, thank you again so much and face, you know, seeing with her all the time?

Yeah, I just think it's important to sit down and thoughtfully kind of recount what's happened during the last year with myself and Robin and Jay and Jordan, who she's very close to, and just let her know what's evolved. And, you know, I call it the O factor because, you know, you always think about the metaphor of throwing the pebble in the pond and the ripples out. But the O factor is like throwing a meteor in the pond. There's a tsunami everywhere. It just keeps going and going and going. And it's impacted my boys, which she has such a close relationship with Jay and Jordan and how it's affected their lives and all across time and just had such an impact. And I just don't ever want her to forget that we know that.

Right.

You're not too good for her. You think it's all you now and you're the one who created this success on your own?

No, and I hope I've given back to her along the way as well. She's called me in some tough times and I never ceased to take that phone call, but I can spend the rest of my life and never repay her for everything she's done for me and mine. And I never hesitate to say that. That's why I said, people say, what's your secret to being number one? I said, Oprah quit. She's number one. She retired. You kept showing up. Growing up, yeah.

That's right.

Who would you say is the most influential person in your life growing up, the most influential figure, whether it be a parent or a coach or mentor or family friend?

Clearly it was my dad, both negatively and positively. I haven't had a drink in over 50 years. because he was a bad alcoholic and I just said, I will never go down that road. He was also the hardest working man I've ever seen in my life. I got a tremendous work ethic from him. I've never seen anybody work as hard as him. He was never tired, he never gave up, he always fought and I respected him for that. I hated that he was an alcoholic, but I also understood it too. I know a lot of what he went through growing up and he self-medicated a lot. I don't excuse it, but I understand it.

Sure.

He.

Was a big factor in my life. I had a football coach in high school that was a big factor in my life. he helped me graduate.

Got you to show up to class and make sure you showed up.

Yeah.

Yeah, he did. And, you know, I think that you, you take those lessons along the way and you, I used to have coaches tell me when I was playing football, you know, they give you that. You've heard it.

Yeah.

You know, man, football teaches you about life. You know, whatever.

Yeah.

It does though. And you roll your eyes, yeah, right, come on. But the fact of the matter is it really does. I can't think how many times it was a minute, 10 seconds left in the game and you're 13 points behind and somehow or another you wind up winning and you lose, it ain't ever too late.

It ain't ever too late.

You never quit till it's over and I've learned that. even playing tennis. There are days that I'll be scheduled to do two shows. We wind up doing five.

Oh, man.

And if I didn't play tennis every day and stay in shape and stay sharp and work out and stuff, I wouldn't be able to do five television shows in a day. I. And the, the competition and the conditioning and stuff, I mean, it's just. I've just been a jock all my life. And that's when you reach down and pull it out and get it up and get it done. Dig deep.

I can feel I like it.

Yeah, you have to. And you can be tired later. You do it. That's it. That red light comes on. You do what you got to do. I'm curious.

What was the biggest lesson your dad taught you? And also the biggest lesson this coach taught you?

You know, they both said it kind of the same way. Big time players make big time plays at big times.

I love that.

And they both said that to me.

And.

You know, I was, I've been captain on the teams that I've played on, and it kind of pushed me into a leadership role. from a very young age. And I really think I'm fortunate in.

That.

I really feel like that I'm in one of those jobs where everything I have ever done has prepared me for what I'm now doing. And, you know, there are a lot of jobs that you wouldn't be able to say that about.

Right.

You know, if I was a heart surgeon, for example, I wouldn't necessarily be able to say that, but because I deal with human nature and human interaction and all of those things, then being parts of a team, you know, having been very poor, having been homeless when I was a teenager, having been in these different situations and scenarios, I think has allowed me to, A, not be judgmental of people because I've been where they've most people have been. And I also understand, you know, what they face. I know what it's like for a kid to say, I could never take my friends home. because I never knew what I would find when I opened that door. I never knew if the utilities would be on or off. I never knew if my dad would be drunk in the driveway. I never knew if he would have attacked my mother. I never knew if. Well, I. When they talk about that, I understand because I've been there, right? And I'm. I don't. relish that, and I'm glad that my children didn't go through that. But since I did, I've at least been able to apply it in relating to the people that I sit with sometimes that are looking for some guidance. And having been in those scenarios, both negative and positive, I'm able sometimes to relate.

Yeah.

And they understand, you know, he gets it. He gets what I'm saying. I can see it in his face, he understands.

How do you think you stay so relatable to people? Even though I think Ellen had a show, I think it was called Relatable or something, like a Netflix series that was about trying to stay relatable as she earns however much she earns a year. How do you think you stay relatable with, you know, just the success you have being a TV personality, a big entrepreneur and businessman, how do you keep that relatability?

Well, I hope I do.

And.

I think part of it is growing up in the South.

The accent?

Maybe that's part of it. But we moved around a lot. It almost sounds military because I went to first, second, and third grade in Tulsa, fourth, fifth, and sixth in Denver, seventh, eighth, and ninth in Oklahoma City, 10, 11, and 12 in Kansas City. Then off, I mean, we moved every three years, not by design. It just worked out that way. So I was always the new kid. I always had to be making friends. I always had to be taking down barriers and finding a way to to fit in. And I think that's why athletics were such a big part of my life. Because as you know, I mean, God, you've been a Decath Elite and you've played all of these different sports. You know, when you're a jock, you have an immediate peer group.

Absolutely.

If you don't.

Guy friends right away.

Exactly. If you don't, you're just standing there, you know, looking around, like nobody to sit with at lunch. But if you, if you show up and you can run fast and jump high, then you have something in common with somebody.

Right.

And so I always found a peer group everywhere I went and fit in to the group in that way. And that helped me in so many ways. Like I said, I went to high school in Kansas City and half of the team was black and half the team was white. Well, you've fastly realized there's absolutely no difference. And you've learned right away that there might be cultural differences in practices, but human beings are human beings. And I got comfortable with that from a very early age. And I was so glad that I did. And that served me well. you know, my whole life, whereas there are a lot of kids grew up where they were never around, they lived such a homogeneous life. They were never around anybody any different than themselves. And that's not true in athletics, as you know. You know, it doesn't matter. Somebody can run fast and jump high. That's all that matters. You don't care if they're polka dot.

Can they help you win?

Exactly.

Are they a good person on your team? Do they have a good attitude? Do they work hard? That's what you look for those characteristics. I played football in arena football in Alabama for a year. I was one of the only white guys on the team. And they cared, could I play the game?

That's right.

Could I ball?

Yeah.

And if I can ball, then I'm good enough to hang with them.

Yeah.

Doesn't make any difference. And then it extends off the field.

Absolutely.

And so right away you learn, you know, we're all the same.

And.

I think I got that instilled in me really early. You just relate to everybody.

You talk about being a big time, big time players make big time plays at big moments, big times. If someone's not a big time player in their life right now or in their career or relationship or business, how can they become a big time player to be able to make big time plays at the right time?

Well, I think everybody can. I think that's the whole point. Look, if you don't star in your own life, who's going to?

Absolutely.

I mean, think about that. It starts with this. I think you've got to decide that you're going to be who you are on purpose. Don't wake up every day and let the world tell you who you are, who you're going to be. And I think a lot of people do that.

What do you mean by be you on purpose?

Well, the world is going to tell you who to be and and where you fit in. Your parents have an expectation set for you. Your job has an expectation. Your community, your church, everybody has a slot for what they expect you to do. And that may or may not be who you really are. And I think you have to make a decision about who you really are, what your values are, what you believe, what matters to you, what doesn't matter to you, and you've got to decide, I'm going to embrace those values and pursue those goals, and I'm going to do it on purpose, and I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm going to be who I am, and I'm going to do it on purpose. And so when you say, what are you doing and why are you doing it? I'll say, I'm doing A, B, and C, and I'm doing it on purpose. Like me, don't like me, but that's who I am, and I'm doing it on purpose. This is not a mistake. I believe in a defined brand.

A defined brand.

A defined brand. Do you think anybody's going to confuse me with somebody else?

No. No.

Seriously, you're not going to confuse me with somebody else. There are a lot of people out there that have fine brands. They're good people and what they do is good and they have a lot to contribute. But, Like Marianne Williamson. I know Marianne, she's a wonderful woman. She's very spiritual and, you know, she's kind of ethereal and she's into those, that's not me.

Yeah, we've had her on the show. She's terrific.

Isn't she terrific?

She's great. But it's not your brand.

Not me. She's not a, and she's not me and I'm not her. But there's a place for both of us.

Absolutely.

And there's room for both of us. There's a place, but you're never going to confuse my message with hers or hers with mine, but I love her. I think she's got a great message, but she's got to be who she is and I got to be who I am. And it's like, it's like McDonald's and the Palm. You're not ever going to go into the McDonald's and expect to get a five pound lobster and you're not ever going to go into the Palm and expect to get a Big Mac and fries. They have defined brands. They are distinct. They're good at what they do. You can't ride two horses with one ass. You've got to decide, all right, this is my brand and this is who I'm gonna be and I'm gonna ride that brand. That's me. And I think that's what I mean when I say you got to be who you are on purpose. I'm very straightforward. I'm gonna tell you the truth as I see it. Now you may disagree and if you do and what I say won't withstand challenge, throw it out. 100% I am not the repository of all knowledge and if what I tell you won't withstand challenge hit the eject button and move on if you don't like what I'm saying, that's why you have a remote control.

Right.

Hit that up or down button and move on to something else. Got it. But I'm gonna be who I am on purpose. I'm gonna sink or swim not based on what somebody else decides I should say or do. I'm gonna do it based on what I believe at the core of my soul I need to do. And, you know, there are a lot of psychologists that take the approach like, well, how does that make you feel? Well, tell me how does that make you feel? That's a valid approach for people to discover certain things. That's not me. That's not me. I'm not going to talk to somebody for six months and then say, you,'re an asshole.

Right.

If I know that in the first five minutes, I'm going to tell you. You're an asshole. Yeah, you don't need to talk to me for six months for me to tell you you're a narcissistic jerk. Work on that.

Right.

I'm going to tell you right now. And if I'm wrong, then fire me and go get somebody else. But I'm not going to wait six months to tell you that. I'm going to tell you what I believe. And I'm straightforward. And I know a lot of 75 cent words. I just try not to use them. I can tell you you're a schizophrenogenic mother with conflicts here, there, and other, or I can just explain what that means. I would rather just explain what it means.

Yeah.

And that's my brand. I don't think common sense is nearly common enough. And so I try to present common sense information to people's homes every day for free.

Yeah.

And that's worked for me. And that's a brand that I embrace. And so I am who I am on purpose. I don't apologize for it. Some people may think I'm a barbarian, some people may think I'm the second coming of common sense. I wouldn't disagree with either one of them.

You are who you are though. What happens if we don't get clear on our values and we aren't, we're being someone else on purpose but not ourselves, what happens to us?

It's not authentic. It's not ever going to work. Look, if you're not authentic, if you don't really, if, look, to me it's congruency. If you're not congruent with what you really believe at the core of your soul, then you're incongruent. And it's not gonna work. It's like an airplane that's not aerodynamic. It's like flying with your gear down. It's not clean, it's not gonna move. and if you are congruent, then it's going to feel right to you. Remember when you were a kid, we've all done this. When we were kids, we'd get in the swimming pool, we'd have a beach ball and we'd try to hold it underwater.

And it pops right up.

Wear yourself out holding it underwater. It keeps popping up this way and that way. To me, that's what it's like when you're denying who you really are. Oh man, you're holding that beach ball underwater. It keeps trying to pop up. Let it pop up. That's who you really are. And that's what I mean when I say be who you are on purpose. Let that baseball pop up. That's who you are. And that's what I do. I'm not... And you gotta know who that is and you gotta stay in your lane. You've never... I don't know how many of my episodes you've watched, but you've never heard me tell anyone what to do with their 401k.

Right, right.

You've never heard me give anybody investment advice. that is not my lane, that is not what I do. Now I might have an expert come on and advise a couple or something, but that's not me.

You might be good at it yourself because you've been doing it for a long time, but it's not your expertise.

So I'm not going to talk about it. I have a lane. Now fortunately, human functioning is a pretty broad lane. So I can talk about marriage, parenting, individual pursuit of goals, mental health, mental illness. There's a lot of, I have a broad lane so I don't lap myself right away. but there are things outside my lane, I leave those alone. And I'm gonna stay in my lane and I'm gonna do it authentically. And I think we have to know what that is and be authentic and own it. And I think that's very, very important. And then I think you have to star in your own life. I don't care if you're a teacher or a plumber or a butcher or a baker, a candlestick maker, you have to decide I'm going to take pride in who I am and I'm going to be good at what I do, I'm going to be proud of what I do, and I'm going to be the star of my own life. And maybe that's in the way you give to other people, the way you parent your children, the way you spouse with your partner or whatever, but I think we generate the results in life that we think we deserve. And I can follow someone around and never speak to them and tell you a whole lot about that person. If I see somebody in a gray suit, a gray shirt, a gray tie, a gray bag slumped over, shuffling along the street, I know that's what that person thinks they deserve. I don't have to talk to them because they generate the results in life they think they deserve. And if they're disheveled and they're tired and they're bent over and they're depressed and they're lonely, they're generating the results they think they deserve. We all do that. And if you see somebody that is genuinely happy, they're engaged and involved and they're looking around and they think that's what they deserve. People generate the results they think they deserve. And I could watch somebody and tell you what they think they deserve. Because it's who they surround themselves with. It's the activities they choose. And the problem is you model that for your children. Somebody comes home, says, How was your day at work? Oh, it was horrible. You know, another day, you're modeling for your child to sell out, take a job you hate, but do it every day of your life. Don't model that for your children. What is that about? That's terrible. That's not being who you are on purpose. That's being who somebody else wants you to be. And modeling for your child that you grow up and sell out to what somebody else wants you to do, whether you like it or not.

Wow.

I hate when people do that. And I try to get people not to do that.

Right.

They say, well, it's easy for you. You've got enough money to do what you wanna do. It's not about the money. It's about finding a way to be who you are in your own paradigm.

And.

It'S not about, you know, quitting your job and go flying freight out of Africa. It's finding a way to shine in your own world, in your own orbit in some way. It's how you do what you do, not necessarily what you do.

In this time, it seems like this. Maybe because I'm in LA, I see more of it like this, that it's really hard to find a quality partner that's a great match for you in general, in the US, I'm speaking. It's hard for people to find a great partner and stay in a healthy relationship. I've heard People say that 80% of being in a great relationship is picking the right person, is choosing the right person. I'm not sure if you would agree with that. But why do you think it's so hard for people to choose the right partner when we're always choosing something from a pain or from a need or a lack as opposed to a healthy conscious whole place?

Well, I think it is, you gotta know what you're looking for. And I think So many people, there's a difference between Mr. Wright and Mr. Right now. He'll, Mrs. Wright and Mrs. Right now, it's what is it you're looking for? And I think we have to know ourselves to know what we really need. And sometimes, if we don't really know what's driving us, you know, it may be insecurity and we bring out the worst in each other. I see people all the time on stage where you've got somebody that's really dependent with somebody that's really over controlling and they bring out the worst in each other and they think it's a perfect fit. Oh, we just fit like hand in glove because She was very passive and he was very dominant. And so it just seemed like, wow, what a perfect match. It wasn't a perfect match at all. It was pathological from the get-go. You know, she needed to get a backbone and the last thing she needed was somebody dominant that played into her passivity is the worst thing they could do. You've got to know what is it that's attracting me to this person. Is it a pathological need to be controlled or is it that I really admire this person. You've got to really ask yourself, what is it that's attracting me to this person? Is it somebody that makes me feel safe in the moment, but it's not really what I need? You've got to ask yourself what's driving you in the moment. And a lot of people don't ask that question.

I mean, how do they... If someone has dealt with a lot of, I guess, trauma from their past, is it possible for them to choose a healthy relationship until they heal or start to at least work on that healing process? Or are they always gonna kind of fall into that trap.

Well, I think you're gonna do one or two things. When you enter a relationship, you're either gonna contribute to or contaminate that relationship based on what you bring with you when you show up.

Right.

If you bring a wounded soul, if you bring open wounds, if you bring resentments, if you bring a lot of unfinished emotional business from being cheated on or hurt or abandoned or neglected and you bring all that pain to the relationship, you're going to contaminate that relationship. Or if you've healed all of those things where you come to a relationship saying, I want but don't need a partner, now you're going to contribute to the relationship. So I think if you are really hurt, you've got to heal that hurt before you can go into a relationship and not contaminate it. It's like baggage. You're going to pick up baggage up and carry it with you and set it down in the relationship or you're going to empty it out before you go. And I think that's why I think everybody, everybody should do an autopsy on the relationships they've been in before they go to the relationship they're headed towards.

What should they be asking themselves about previous relationships?

What did I do? What did I do to contribute to the demise of that relationship?

Not blaming them, them, them, but... Yeah, they're gone.

They ain't bringing them unless it's a really weird relationship. What did I do to contribute to the demise of this relationship? Was I too passive? Was I too domineering? Was I too suspicious? Was I too naive? Was I what did I do? Even if you were cheated on, even if you were abused, even if you were just completely run over in the relationship, what did you do to contribute to that so you don't do it again? And if you can own whatever role you had in that so you can adjust that and not do it again, then you've got a chance of not repeating those mistakes in this new relationship. You can't do that unless you do an autopsy on the one you've been in.

Sound advice right there. What about questions you should ask someone before you're gonna get committed to them, whether that be in a marriage or just an exclusively committed, you know, dating relationship, to know that you're setting yourself up for potentially a good relationship.

Well, you got to know what your deal breakers are.

Oh, yeah.

There are deal breakers, right?

Right.

And, you know, you're not going to find a perfect candidate. Right. You know, if you, if you find an 80% candidate and the 20% that's not there aren't deal breakers, you can grow the 20% faster than you can find it.

Right, right, right.

Because you can say, well, I'm gonna wait till I find 100%. Well, no, you're better off to take the 80 and grow the 20 or 10 of the 20 or whatever it might be, as long as they aren't deal breakers. And there aren't many deal breakers. Deal breakers are like physical abuse, drug or alcohol abuse, and they won't get treatment for it. They won't, you know, there are those things that if they have some of those things that are just non-negotiable, that if you were in the relationship and those things occurred, you would leave. Then don't get in to start with. If there's somebody that's gonna hit you, don't get in. Because if you were in it and they did, you would leave. So that's a deal breaker, don't get in. But you've got to decide, what are your deal breakers? If you are on this earth, Robin believed she was put on this earth to be a mother. If I was absolutely 100% committed in this life to not have children. That's a deal breaker. That's a deal breaker.

Yeah, I'm right.

She should know that up front. That wasn't the case, but had it been, she would want to know that.

If.

Her father was a bad alcoholic like mine, and she said up front, I will never marry a man that drinks. And as it turned out, I was committed to not being a drinker because of what my dad had demonstrated to me. And we were kind of fated in that regard, because you drink? Actually, I don't. I'm sorry. I thought she wanted to go out drinking. I was just telling her the truth. I'm not your guy. If you want to go clubbing, I ain't your guy. I thought I was giving her the wrong answer. And she said, oh, okay. Little did I know that was the right answer. But you got to know what your deal breakers are. And, you know, aside from that, you got to see if there's compatibility, if it feels right. There's got to be chemistry.

Right.

There's got to be chemistry. If there's not chemistry, you can't. You can't grow chemistry. That's there. That's either there or it's not. I don't care. I don't care if he's the most handsome guy in the world or she's the most gorgeous girl in the world. If there's not chemistry, that won't grow. You'll know that right up front.

Right.

And that's the way it is for some people. You know, you look like James Bond and for some girl it's like, yeah, it must be.

They don't care, yeah. What would you say is a non-negotiable for you both in your marriage on a daily basis? we get up and say we love each other in the morning or we give each other a hug every day or a kiss or is there like a non-negotiable we talk about what we're grateful for every night? Is there something you guys do that is automatic to support the growth and the quality of the relationship? Something small or big? We go on a trip every, you.

Know, out of the well, I can say it on both sides. Yeah. And this comes to my mind because I Talked about it with a couple today. In almost 50 years of being with Robin, I've never called her a name or cussed at her, nor has she ever at me. Really? That not ever, never, ever.

That's inspiring.

Let me tell you, there are some women, and I'm talking about Robin like she's scary and she's not.

She seems like a sweetheart.

I mean, she is. She's on my phone.

She's always smiling when I see her videos of her.

She's just a, you know, absolute doll.

And.

You can see looking at her, that's not a posed picture, it's just her in the back of a helicopter.

But.

There are some women you just look at and you say, would you ever call her a name?

No.

Some women just don't, you just look at them and say, no, no, it's like, Wow. You just wouldn't ever do that. And nor would she be. She's never one time. This is something we just don't do.

50 years and never called each other a name.

Not one time.

That's incredible.

Really?

That's, I mean, I don't know many relationships where they're not, when they're in an argument saying, well, you, you're this and this and I, oh, no.

No, no, it's not even been close.

That's beautiful.

Oh, wow.

That's inspiring.

Well, maybe, but it's just never even been.

Wow, that's beautiful.

I've never even bit my tongue to, it never even occurred to me to call her a name.

That's amazing.

Um, then maybe it's because I grew up in a very violent household.

Right, right.

I had three sisters and, they were in violent marriages and my parents were in a violent marriage and it was just something I just would never do. That's just not. And that's, this is something that I could not accept myself doing.

You want to be proud of yourself?

I could not accept that from myself.

Okay. So that's one of the non-negotiables.

I can't think of a time I've ever called a woman a name.

Wow. That's great.

Ever. I might have turned and walked off.

Right.

I just, that's just not something that you do. Right, right. Maybe it's part of being from the South or something. You still do that.

Yeah, of course.

You just don't do that. And my sons, I've never heard my sons speak of a woman in a derogatory way. That's beautiful. Then they better not.

Right, you get a whooping.

I just don't think you do that.

Yeah, okay.

But that's beautiful.

I mean, I just hear of a lot of marriages that are, you know, struggle and there's name calling or frustrations and it's just like that probably doesn't help develop more love.

Well, you know, John Gottman is, I don't know if you've heard of him.

Gottman Institute.

Yeah. Yeah.

And he talks about the four horsemen and, you know, those are the things that predict divorce in a relationship and that sort of thing, name calling, is one of those things. It's defensiveness and stonewalling and aggression. All those things that you get into that have to do with character assassination is one of those things that if you see people doing that, you can predict the demise of that relationship.

But you've worked with so many people. Is it fear, is it insecurity, is it the shame they hold on to? What would you say is kind of the the main thing?

I would say it's comfort zones. I think people limit themselves and get in their own way. I think everybody does that, me included. Everybody gets comfortable in their own life and before you know it, days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, months turn into years and you look and you go, wow, I've been doing this for a long, long time. I think it's really difficult and something that you have to consciously do to continue to challenge yourself to go to the next level. And then on the other hand, you can do that so much that you get what I call caught in ascendancy where you're never satisfied where you are and so you're always reaching for the next level and there's some balance in between where you always want to better yourself and challenge yourself to go to the next level, but that doesn't mean you're not satisfied. You know, I'm very gratified with the things that I do and I'm very proud of the things that I do, but it doesn't mean that I'm not always looking for a way to do it better. You know, we just started our 20th season, for example, but every summer, you know, when we wrap the season, we take, you know, three or four weeks to everybody decompress and go off on their own and stuff. But then we start meeting on a regular basis to start saying, okay, let's deconstruct that season. Let's start saying, what are some ways that we can do to tell our stories more effectively, to reach more people, to get out there more effectively? We're always trying to reinvent ourselves and stay relevant and say, how can we come back and and do a better job than we did last year. Not that we didn't do a good job, but we want to do a better job.

Sure.

I think people get in a comfort zone and that's real easy to do.

What's your comfort zone right now?

You know, I think I have been doing Dr. Phil, and I'm not talking about myself in the third person, I'm talking about the show. You know, the actual platform for 20 years. you hear people say, this is the way we've always done it. Well, that doesn't mean that's the way we should do it. And I'm always challenging the staff to say, look, it doesn't matter how we did it last year or last two years, is this the way we should do it? For example, people's viewing habits are changing. Pacing has to change. The expectations that people are going to sit passively in front of a TV screen and let you dictate what they take in for an hour is pretty obsolete now. People get their information in smaller bits at a faster pace than they did when we started. And I think my number one competition now is myself on the internet versus watching me on broadcast television.

Interesting.

I get billions of views on the internet versus broadcast where people, they want a 18-minute bite or a 20-minute bite and I generate that content on broadcast and distribute it on the internet. And that's really the number one competition because nobody else in broadcast is even attempting to do what we do. They have different subject matters. There's some great shows out there. They're just not trying to do what we do.

Right.

You know, I'm gonna add another, you're a star also on TikTok, I saw. You've got like 50 million views in your last video that I was like, you're like crushing TikTok, you're all over YouTube. I mean, it's amazing how you've reinvented yourself to stay relevant with the different platforms. I was listening to an interview you had with Oprah. I know, I started with Jay Leno, where you were like, you know, when we started this 20 years ago, there was no social media, there was no- yeah, think about it.

There was really internet. I mean, it was kind of like just getting started. It was. There weren't any of these social media platforms, which means we've had to really adapt over the years because there was no such thing as cyber bullying, for example. And we've now had to learn, research and study that because kids are taking their own lives by being cyber bullying. I read a study, I read all the time. I can't add two and two and get five every time, but I read really fast. And so I'm a voracious reader. I just constantly am gathering information and data. And I was just reading a study.

That.

Like one in three girls, we're talking about the negative impact of Instagram.

One in three, like in the country or just teens or?

Yeah, teens, young girls. And so there's this impact of social media and putting expectations on girls in terms of their body image and all of that. And so those were things that weren't challenges we had to face then. And having to teach young people where they have to realize, look, I put this stuff out on the internet. They don't think that a college admissions committee is going to go look at that stuff when they're considering them for admission. a human resources group is going to look at that when they're considering them for hire. They're going to go back 10 years, 15 years and see what they were doing when they weren't applying for a job to see who they really are. And so you've got to teach them, look, you've got to think about this stuff because once it's on the web, it's out there forever. It doesn't go away. And so just a whole different set of values that we're having to deal with that weren't even on the radar when we started.

What were some of the problems, I guess, 17, 20 years ago that are still the same today from human beings that you're seeing and what is different?

Well, you know, all the dynamics are the same in terms of, I think, interpersonal relationships. You have the same things from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s in terms of interpersonal relations. The number one need in all people is acceptance. the number one fear is rejection. And you can put synonyms in there, acceptance or success, belongingness, rejection or failure. You can put synonyms in for those things.

Embarrassment, humiliation.

And those things have been consistent generationally across time. But what's different within that framework is We're jumping a lot of steps right now. When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, relationships formed in steps. My mom would take, her mom would pick up. We would hold hands at lunch. We would then go to a movie together and stuff. A lot of that is jumped over now because kids, They move so much faster. What we were exposed to on television then, there were three channels, you know, I Love Lucy, Gunsmoke, Dick Van Dyke. They were sleeping in separate beds on network television. You watch Lucy and Ricky, they had them in twin beds and they were sleeping and they looked like snowsuits.

For pajamas.

In the same room, but in different beds. In the same room, but twin beds. That's what network would allow on. They wouldn't let the public see a husband and wife sleeping in the same bed. They were in twin beds with a nightstand in between. Wow.

I didn't even know that.

Well that's what network television showed. Then that's what was acceptable. That's what the censors would allow. Look at what's on network television now. That's what you would consider pornography back then. and our kids at 10, 11, and 12, that's what they see now. 10, 11, 12 year olds weren't seeing that back then. So they've jumped way ahead on the curve in terms of what their expectations are and what they're exposed to. So I think they get exposed to a lot higher levels of deeper levels of physical, interpersonal, and emotional intimacy at an earlier age than they were back then, and they've jumped over all those steps. So what are they? Well, they get deeper into a relationship without having done those preparatory steps. So they're much further into a relationship without having these trials before they get there. And so when the wheels come off, they're not prepared for it. We have things in life that prepare us for things that come later. Like we lose a goldfish. We lose a pet bird. We lose a cat before grandma dies. prepares us for death. We have dolls and pets that prepare us to raise babies and things. We learn on with lesser stakes for later in life when the stakes are higher. And now we're jumping over a lot of those steps where we get to high stakes interactions without some of those interval steps. And then when the wheels come off, we're not prepared. We haven't had those interval steps of learning before we got to the high stakes losses and we're not prepared for it.

So what happens when people achieve success before they're prepared for it?

I think it's the same thing as experiencing loss before you're prepared for it. You haven't had those plateaus, those steps where you had a little bit of success and then you had some more and you learned to appreciate that. and with the internet bubble and some of these things, we've had some very young people that went to insane levels.

Of wealth and fame.

Yeah. And they had no idea of what really usually goes into earning that kind of wealth and financial freedom and stuff. You see it now in some of the pro sports leagues. I saw a statistic not long ago that 80% of professional athletes two years out of the league are either bankrupt or in serious financial dire straits financially because they go from having very little, if any kind of financial independence or income, let alone wealth, to millions of dollars and they don't know how to handle it. And then next thing they know, it's gone and they haven't prepared for it. They don't know. Shaq talks about the first time he got a $20 million contract, he didn't stop and think about, wait a minute, half of that goes to taxes. So he was spending $20 million. He thought, okay, I've got 10 I can spend here, five here and five here. And then they came in and said, no, no, no, wait a minute, you only had 10 to spend. You spent 20. And he's like, holy. And, you know, he, he says that. He says, I, I, I wasn't, nobody taught me about that. I wasn't prepared for it. And then I got caught in a rears in the beginning. I had to play catch up. So they haven't been through those steps where they learn, hey, you got to pay taxes on this, you got to hold some things in reserve. And most people think that when you see all of these people get in trouble with credit card debt, they think, oh, people just went out and went crazy with their credit cards. The number one reason they get in trouble is some kind of medical problem.

Really?

We have double income families and then one can't work because of a medical problem. that's where they get it. It's not that they're out spending crazy, it's that they had a double income family and then one couldn't work and now they're in serious trouble.

So I'm curious about your story a little bit because when you were in college you were studying psychology but also you were this all-star football player, turned all-star tennis player in college on a scholarship. and then for essentially, call it 30 years, you were working, but it wasn't until you were 20 years ago when the season started, the first season started for Dr. Phil. And really that success kind of took off to another level by being one of the top talk shows. What was the challenge that you faced at that stage of your career or since you have 30 years of working experience roughly did you feel really prepared for that level of success and fame?

Well.

It was not a rags to riches story for me. That makes a great story, but that wasn't the story. I had, you know, my, I was raised by a mother and father that were very loving, but my dad was a terrible alcoholic.

Really.

And when I say terrible alcoholic, I.

Mean.

Really bad alcoholic. When he finally got a job, he had Wednesday afternoons off and every Thursday morning was spent finding the car because he'd come home drunk and had no idea where he left the car.

Wow.

I had to find the car and get to school by noon because if you weren't in school by noon on Thursday, you weren't eligible to play in the game on Friday.

Right.

I had to find that car and get to the next school.

So you're running around town trying to find the car.

Yeah, and I was in Kansas City. You had no idea where the car was and you finally kind of learned what its haunts were and you'd go around and find them.

And.

It was not a a good situation. But when I got on my own, I've always been very fortunate to kind of have a knack for making money. Really? When I was very young, I was making more money than my dad was when I was 19. Really? And I've always been able to, you know, to me, and it may sound cliche to say it, but I've always thought money was the cheapest commodity I had. It was time that was so critical. Money you can replace, money you can make. It's time that's really precious. And when I got married and had kids, that really came into focus then. and I've never, since high school, never really had a job. I had a job in high school and since then I've always been in business for myself.

Really?

And I mean always. I had a job in high school working for Hallmark cards. I worked in their underground warehouse in Kansas City. They had an underground warehouse on 31st Street where they kept all their greeting cards. I got a job working in it was carved out of actual rock. I mean, it was just carved out and I worked there. But after that, I never had a job. I loved working for Hallmark. What a great organization that is, I can tell you. But I've always been in business for myself and that really carved a philosophy for me. I used to read all these people would say, well, you know, so and so's philosophy was, I always thought, I must not be very smart because I don't have a philosophy. And I don't think those guys thought they had a philosophy at the time either. You never have a philosophy until you.

Get older and then people assign it to you.

Right, right, right. The wisdom you had. Exactly. Then they assign you a philosophy. I look back now and realize I've always had a philosophy that Everybody's in business for themselves. I don't care if you're working for the post office. I don't care if you're working for General Motors or some large company. Everybody's in business for themselves. They just don't realize it. Even if you're an employee, just rank and file, you're still a company of one. And you've got to approach it that way and say, I am in business for myself. How am I doing? how am I presenting myself? What's my marketing plan? How am I moving up the chain? What am I doing? And I actually have been in business for myself all my life, but I've always thought everybody was, they just don't think about it that way.

But when you got into psychology, were you thinking, I'm gonna build a business and make a lot of money in the field of psychology, I guess, 50 years ago?

Well.

I certainly approached it with kind of two things in mind. And one was, I recognized very early on that if you're going to get in to a helping profession, you have to acknowledge that there are multiple forms of currency.

Okay.

If you're purely motivated monetarily, you don't want to get in a helping profession.

Right.

Because you can't leverage it. It's not scalable.

Usually a one-to-one practice is not scalable.

It's just not. And so if you don't have.

Social.

Currency, spiritual currency, the currency of giving something back and impacting people's lives. If those things don't matter, if those things don't fill the void for you, then you shouldn't be in that profession. And I told myself if I ever got to the point where those things mattered less, then I'd stop doing it.

Wow.

And I really had a gut check moment for myself in that regard because the average income for a PhD psychologist back in the 80s was like 48, $50,000 a year.

Right.

Not much.

I mean, it really just wasn't much. And at that point, you know, I was making, you know, maybe a couple of million a year as a psychologist because I took an entrepreneurial approach to it. Sure. But I remember over Christmas break one year I was down at the office with Robin and we were just kind of wrapping up for the year and stuff and I went up to the receptionist desk and the appointment book was out there and I looked at it and it was solid for the entire year.

Oh man.

I mean it wasn't a 15 minute walk in there and I thought, oh my God, I still want to do this.

Wow.

What year was this?

This was in '88-'89.

Wow.

And I thought, I just don't want to do that. And there was a time when I would have thought, wow, this is great. You know, you're building a practice. This is great because I had a hospital practice and another hospital practice and we had groups and we were doing a lot of biofeedback type things for pain management and stuff and it just Everything was just couldn't be better. And I thought, it just looked to me like nine miles of bad road. Wow. I was just fatigued at it. I thought, I don't want to do this anymore. And that was my gut check moment. And if I ever got to that point, I'd say, I won't do this anymore. And to walk away from that.

Was.

A real gut check moment. And I talked to Robert about it. I said, you know, I said, if I ever really wasn't all in, I would shut this down and walk away. And she said, are you serious? Wow. And I said, yeah, I'm serious. And, and I did.

Shut it down.

Shut it down.

Did you wait to the next year and, like, finish the commitments or the appointments that were scheduled or were you just like, This is the last year.

I referred them all out. I did everything you're supposed to do to get them to the proper places and checked all the boxes, shut it down and moved on. What'd you do?

I mean, did you have a game plan? Did you have a dream after that? Was it just, well, let's give it a year and figure it out what comes to me?

Sort of, but not really.

Really?

Well, I'm assuming you had savings and.

Investments to... No, it wasn't. We didn't like moving to a cardboard box or anything. But I started two new enterprises and it was clearly a gut check time. Wow. I know Robin was talking to.

My.

Boys a couple of years ago and she said, you know, your daddy's taking chances that would make grown men throw up. So don't think this was an easy road.

Yeah.

I mean, we don't even really know who we are until how old do you think that we kind of form our real identity?

You know, it's, I think until you've been out and seen some of the world and had jobs and changed locations and gotten away from home and family and been on your own. Where you've really found out who you are and what you're about. It's hard to know who you are entering into a relationship. And that takes some time. and, you know, when Robin and I got married, it was in 1976, and I had finished my bachelor's degree and master's degree, and I had, you know, been out and been in business and lived on my own and completed two degrees in college. And at that point, I felt like I knew, you know, a little bit about life and knew who I was coming into a relationship.

Right.

She always knew who she was. She was so much mature than I was going into it. It was astounding. And you know, 45 years later, we get along great.

That's crazy.

Yeah. In this town, it's really crazy.

It's really crazy. When did you know that she was going to be your partner, your wife, your you know, a person in your life.

You know, I was not at all looking to get into a relationship when I met her. I was actually just visiting my parents and she was a friend of my little sister's and she came, I'd had the flu and was kind of stopped over there to kind of recuperate and she came walking through the room. I didn't even know she was in the house. And she came walking through the room, she was there visiting my little sister.

How old are you at this time?

I was 23.

Okay.

And 22-23, and she was 19.

And.

Very charmingly said, who are you? And she said, well, who are you? and we were there alone and visited for a couple hours and went out the next night. And man, there was something about her from the very beginning.

Wow.

It just, there was something different about her. From the minute I met her, she was spunky and smart and obviously very easy on the eyes. But her personality just sparkled like crazy and still does today. I can't spend enough time with her.

Wow.

After 45 years, isn't that crazy?

Amazing. What is the thing you love about your wife the most?

Her personality. It's kind of like when we decided, I always had a rule in the family that if we were going to make a big change, it took four yeses and one no. so I had two boys and then Robin and I said, we're going to make a big change. It took four yeses and one no, even though Jordan at the time was like 10, 12, whatever, if we were going to make a change, if anybody said, no, don't want to do it, we'd not do it. So I remember when I came home and we talked about coming to LA and launching Dr. Phil, I'm telling Robin, I said, you know, I talked to Oprah today and she says, you know, it's really time to launch your own show. We're getting an awful lot of mail. Come on, these, you know, it's really time. I'm telling her that. While I'm telling her, she's like getting boxes and packing shit. She's like, she's got the spirit of adventure. It's like whatever. She's already packing. Yeah, we had a great life. We have a beautiful home on the golf course at Las Colinas in Dallas at the four seasons, wonderful life, couldn't be better. Kids are Wisconsin school, everything's going great. She's like, oh really? She's passionate about fall we're talking. Really? Like whatever man. She's just like, it's a spirit of adventure always. And I love that about her.

And.

She is fiercely loyal. You don't want to criticize her husband or kids.

It would not be fun to be around.

She's 5'2 and 108, but you do not want to, you don't want to pick a fight with her about husband and kids. She's ferocious. I love that about her.

Wow.

And she's a lot of fun. She got a great sense of humor. And she's a small town girl from Duncan, Oklahoma. Wow. You ever been to Duncan, Oklahoma?

Never.

Yeah, well it ain't there and it ain't headed that way. It's a middle, you go another 10 miles and fall off the earth.

Yeah, yeah.

It's in the middle of nowhere. And she grew up poor like I did. Her dad had a driving range and her job was to, they didn't have a ball picker upper. She was the ball picker upper. She had to go out with a.

Bucket and pick up the balls.

They didn't have the cart with the fence. No, that was her. She was just picking it up, like dodging balls. Kaelin would wear a football helmet if they were still hitting.

Wow.

Wow. That was her. So she's a spirit adventure.

I love it.

Pretty scrappy.

What.

I think I saw her in a video somewhere with you a few years ago say that she's never missed an episode of Dr. Phil's show. This was a few, I don't know if this is still the case. 20 years in. 35 hundred episodes almost.

Yeah, we'll hit 3,500 this season.

She's never missed one.

Never missed one.

Oh my goodness.

And, you know, she's not just a proverbial audience member. She is one of the foremost ambassadors in the fight against domestic violence in America. She's become our representative in that. And she's testified before Congress on those matters. She's developed an app for escaping those situations that's been honored at the United Nations and on Capitol Hill. I mean, she very, very prolific in that arena, has a foundation in that regard. She's very, very active in that. She's a go-getter.

That's amazing. I'm curious, your three pieces of advice for having a happy, healthy long marriage? Because a lot of people that stay together a long time, but they're not happy and it's not healthy. And I feel like they still say, well, we've been together for 30 years, but the kids know that they should have got divorced a long time ago.

Yeah.

So what would you say are your three pieces of advice for a happy, healthy, long-term marriage that makes you say, I can't spend enough time with her? And then what would you say is Robin's three pieces of advice? Is it the same or is it different?

Well, I can speculate about hers, but I think one that we share, I know because we've talked about it, and that is, you, you deal with the issues when they come up.

Don't wait for them. Yeah.

People, you know, we people ask us, you know, do we have, you know, big fights and blow ups and stuff like that. And the answer is we don't because we deal with stuff before it gets big. It doesn't mean we don't have disagreements because we certainly do.

And.

But we don't let things build up across time. We don't procrastinate emotionally. We deal with it when it comes up. And I think if you don't ever allow for unfinished emotional business, then you always keep the slate clean. Don't ever let there be unfinished emotional business because then it builds up and then one thing stacks on top of another and then on another and then on another and then on another. And resentment really builds out of that.

Sure.

We made a deal early on that we weren't gonna do that.

So you guys have probably never really resented each other because you've always dealt with the challenging stuff when it comes.

Yeah, maybe in the moment. I might have said something or she resented me saying it, but we dealt with it right then and then it was over with. And so I think that's critically important. I think if people would really commit to doing that, I think it would make a huge, huge difference.

What's a way to approach that? by starting the conversation if someone, if the other partner is always triggered by the emotional stress or maybe there's some trauma they haven't healed yet or dealt with where they resist it or they just try to lie. Like how do you, how do you approach that conversation?

Well, I think the thing to do is you have to talk about that outside of crisis. You don't talk about it when something has gone off in the ditch. You never talk to a drunk about their drinking while they're drunk. They can't talk about it while they're sober. You don't talk about issues and resentment while you're angry with each other. Talk about it while things are calm. And most people think, no, no, no, let sleeping dogs lie. I don't want to bring up an issue when there isn't one. No, that's when you need to talk about it. That's when you need to say, Look, while we're getting along, let's make an agreement that if I do something that really gets on your nerves, you will tell me, and I promise to you that I will hear you out. And that's the time to talk about it. Don't try to solve problems during crisis.

Yes.

Make your plan outside of crisis. And I think that's really important. And I think secondly, we have agreed that our objective when we disagree is not to get the other person to agree with us, but to be heard. In fact, you don't even need to respond. I'm going to tell you how I feel, and you tell me how you feel, and then we'll just walk away and let that sit with the other person. And you know what? If you really love each other, and you really want to make the other person happy, most of the time you will find a way to get the other person most of what they want. But if your goal is, I'm going to, you're going to agree with me, I'm going to make my point and you're going to agree with me, then you're making it a win-lose situation. And think about that. Think about when you were in high school and you were playing the lancers. What were the signs in the hallway? Crush the lancers, you'll smash the lancers. Do you really want a win-lose situation with your partner?

No.

Crush my wife, smash my wife. You don't want a win-lose situation. Let me tell you how I feel. And I just want to be heard. I'll hear what you say and I'll let you be heard. And then let's drop it at that. And then we can come together and talk about it another time. If that's your objective to be heard, it will work itself out. And that has really worked for us. We don't put it on a win-lose situation.

Right.

Because if it's a win-lose, one of us is going to be the loser and I don't want to be the loser and I don't want to be married to a loser.

Right.

You don't always be winning and then your partner losing every time.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because if she's a loser, that's where resentment comes from.

Yeah.

Okay. So that's number two, right?

Yeah, that's number two. And I think if people will, and that's a hard thing to do. Yes. That's really a hard thing to do because we want to win. We want to make our point.

We want to be right.

Yeah, we do get to be right fighters and we want to be right. We want to be right. And the other thing is, I think we really have to resolve that.

If.

Somebody has to stop being all of who they are to be half of a couple, oh, the price is too high.

Oh my gosh, that's the greatest thing you said, because so many people are inauthentic in their relationships.

This doesn't work. If I got to stop being who I am to be half of the McGraws.

Oh.

It isn't gonna work. And if she's gotta stop being who she is to be half of the McGraw couple, it's not gonna work. I've told her before, 'cause she said, I wish she would be more sensitive. I'm like, no, you really don't.

Wow.

You really don't. Wow. You think you do, but you really don't. 'Cause you know what? You didn't marry a cheerleader. You married the middle linebacker.

Right, right, right.

And not that there's anything wrong with a cheerleader. and I mean that. I'm not saying that to be politically correct. There's nothing wrong with a guy that is more effeminate or more emotionally sensitive at all. There's not. But that's not what attracted you to me. And if I became that, that's not who you married. And had I been that and then I became more of a gorilla, that wouldn't be who you married. You married me, and there's a reason you did. You felt safe with me, or there was something about me that you were attracted to. Don't try to change it now. And there have been times where Things went off the rails somewhere and I stood in the gap and she was like, yeah, I'm sure glad you are who you are.

Right? Yeah.

Because there have been times where we've been in situations where I needed to step up and be who I was and she was like, Man, I'm glad I married you.

I'm glad you're the linebacker.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, yeah, okay. But that doesn't mean that you can't evolve across time. And I think I've learned to be more less cerebral and more emotional across time.

But.

You can't ask somebody to stop being all of who they are to be half of the couple.

And what happens if your partner starts asking you to change? Well, As opposed to accepting kind of where you're at.

I have a range.

Yes.

Okay. There's a range where, you know, I'm over here in full chromagnon mode. And there's a range down here where, you know, I can hold the baby and...

Right.

I remember Jay had to have surgery when he was four weeks old. And I was on staff at that hospital. And so they allowed me to carry him into the operation room.

Wow.

She'Ll never forget that image of seeing me walk down the hallway with his little head right here and he was kind of crying and I was carrying him in there and she said that was probably the most tender scene she's ever seen in her life. That was at this end down here. So you have a range in there and so yeah you can move within that range, that's okay. But that is who I am. You can move within that range. you don't ask somebody to be somebody they're not. She'll ask me sometimes something like really great will happen. And she'll say, come on, give me something. Give me a happy dance. Give me something. I'm not the kind of person that jumps up and down. He goes, hey. But inside, I might be going, yes, this is really great. And it's a great sense of satisfaction to me, but I don't jump up and down and run around in circles. And she'll jokingly say, come on, give me something. And I'll say, I'm very happy about that. She'll say, okay, that's good for you.

She's dancing around and jumping on couches.

Exactly. And my highs don't go real high, my lows don't go real low. Maybe that's boring.

You're like Tom Brady, you're just like, you're consistent.

That's all I have to go on. accomplish. I'm Brady. But, you know, I'm not real. I'm, I'm more cerebral than emotional. But inside, I've, you know, I experienced. I'm very happy about it, but I don't, I don't run around with my hair on fire.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which is good. So I don't have much.

And what would you say are the, the three things that, that Robin would say are the keys to a happy, healthy long, long term thriving marriage or partnership.

Yeah, I think she would say, first off, spending quality time together. I think she really values that quality time and I think she thinks there's just no substitute for that. And by quality time, I mean intimacy, where intimacy being defined is sharing things that you would not share with anybody else on the world, in this world.

Can you give an example of, you.

Know, there are times that she and I spend together, just maybe out on the patio, relaxed and talking where.

You.

Know, I have, you know, my guard down, she has hers down where we're just completely relaxed. We're not on, we're not in any way.

It's not business mode, it's not TV fill, it's not this.

We're not censoring anything, we're just completely relaxed and 100% candid with each other, talking about, you know, life or family or dreams or whatever, things that we just wouldn't share with anybody else.

Yeah.

And I think that's really important to her that there are things that we would say to each other that we wouldn't say to anybody else because we don't feel safe enough to say it to anybody else. And to me, that's intimacy when.

You.

Say and do things with that person that you wouldn't say or do with any other person in the world. Not your best friend, not your sister, not your brother. it's just reserved for that. It has nothing to do with romance or sexuality or anything. It has to do with just trust and that uniqueness of that one relationship where it would not happen with another person in the world. And I think she really values that. I know that because she said so. So when I say quality time, that's intimacy time. Yeah, that's what that means.

Okay. And what do you think would be here number two?

Each other's back no matter what.

Even if the person's wrong.

Even if the person's wrong. And that doesn't mean that privately you might not say, you know, we might modify this situation, but publicly or otherwise that there's never a doubt where you stand.

What happens if you don't Even for a slight little moment, don't have that person's back in a public or friend setting, let's say.

I don't know.

You never experienced it?

I'm not gonna find out.

Right.

I just, I just, and I've never experienced that with Robin because that's why I told you a minute ago, you don't want to pick a fight with her by getting sideways with her husband or children. Wow. Because that's to her, there's family and everybody else. And that's really core with her.

And.

If you've been raised by an alcoholic, then you understand what I'm talking about. Because when you've been raised by an alcoholic, you've learned that you can't depend on the leader of the family to be there. When you become the leader of the family, you say that will never happen in my family. Not one minute of one hour of one day will any member of my family ever doubt where I stand.

Wow.

And that is core to her soul.

That's beautiful.

That is core to her soul. That will never happen. That is beautiful. She's been where they've banged on her door at three in the morning. with a bunch of drunk men out there saying her father lost their furniture in a poker game. And they pulled up my truck and wanted their furniture. And she'd seen her mother stand on the porch saying, you,'re not taking our furniture.

Wow.

Even if he was wrong, she's not.

Yeah.

You're not taking our furniture. Her mother stood in the gap and said, you,'re not taking our furniture. You're not taking my daughter's bed. and, you know, she knows what it is to stand by your family.

And.

That'S critical to her. That's core to her.

Seems like an amazing woman.

Yeah, she is. That's why I said, you don't want to get on the wrong side of her. You don't want to get on the wrong side of her.

And what would you say the third thing is that she would say you think?

I think she would say that you, absolutely recognize that.

Children.

I'll put it this way, when you start being parents, you don't stop being wives, husbands and lovers. Just because you start being parents, you don't stop being husbands and wives. And she has been so great about that over the years. The children joined our lives. We didn't join theirs. Wow.

What is the mistake most people make when they have kids?

Well, they really stop focusing on their role as husband or wife and they start being totally focused on the kids and they stop carving out time for each other. Now, there are gonna be times when you do, like when the children are really young and you're up all night, you're breastfeeding or changing diapers or or dad's getting up every other minute or mom's up every minute and you're surviving those times. I'm talking about across the years.

You.

Recognize that those kids come and then they go. And when they go, it's the two of you. And if you haven't known each other for the last 18 years, when they leave, you're gonna be sitting there looking at somebody you used to know. And you don't want that to happen. If you were really great lovers and intimate and best friends 18 years ago, and you haven't been for the last 18 years, and then they go off to college, you're sitting there looking at somebody like, didn't I used to know you?

Wow.

And.

I think she would say, just don't ever make that mistake. Don't ever let that gap come in there. Now, in short term, of course, you sacrifice for your children whatever it takes for them to flourish and be nurtured and do what you take. But across time, across the years, you remember to nurture that relationship between the husband and wife. You remember that they're going to leave someday and it's going to be the two of you. Take care of that relationship so when they leave, you're not sitting there with a stranger.

And if someone has been stuck though for a while, or maybe they've been living in this kind of limiting belief for a while, maybe it's years, or they've just been in that pattern, how can they start to think differently and believe themselves when they've never seen the results or evidence that they deserve more?

Well, I can tell you this. Really small changes. accumulate across time.

Absolutely.

And you and I are sitting here right now in September, and people are listening to this whenever you're going to drop this. And the rest of this year is going to go by whether they're doing something about it or whether they're not.

Right.

Let's say there's 12 weeks left in this year. Those 12 weeks are going to go by whether somebody spends it losing a half a pound a week, setting a goal to look up a college curriculum, to explore a different job, to redefine their relationship with their spouse, to reengage with their children, to what whatever it is, making a small change each week or each day, it's astounding how much those small changes accumulate to big differences in a short period time. We don't have to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Just make a little difference today and another one tomorrow and then before you know it, wow, I'm really in a different place. And that time's gonna go by whether you're doing something about it or not.

Absolutely.

So you might as well be doing a little something.

What would you say is the thing you get to work on to get you out of your comfort zone over the next 12 weeks that maybe you've been I should be doing more of this or I need to take a look at this thing or assess this part of my life. Is there any area?

Me personally?

Yeah, you personally. This season of your life.

Next chapters. Because I'm always asking myself, and I know at this stage, my world's supposed to be getting smaller, supposed to be slowing down, kicking back. But I look, I still look at expanding my rides and I'm looking at what is a new chapter I can challenge myself with. And I like to do things that I like to take on things that are really outside my comfort zone. Like I mentioned, I'm not good at math. So when I was in graduate school, my teaching assistantship was statistics.

Okay.

Because it scared the bejeebers out of me. So I think I'm only nine or 12 hours short of a PhD in statistics. statistics because it intimidated me so bad. I took every statistic course I could, non-parametrics, parametrics, malinova's distance, analysis of variance. I took everything I could get because I thought I will not turn away from that. I will take this one, that one, this one, that one. I will not let this intimidate me. So I like to lean into stuff that intimidates me except going to the dentist.

Oh, that's the worst, right?

Yeah.

I had, I had 18 teeth. Well, I had four teeth removed, plus my four wisdom teeth when I was, when I was 17. Oh, my gosh. And because I was supposed to get braces right afterwards. This was in the summer before football season. And my, my, I was like, man, I don't want to get braces right now and then have to wear this, you know, this, my braces all messed.

Up with the mouth guard in.

I was like, let me wait. Let me wait till after the season. This is the worst after the season turned into 20 years.

Yeah.

And it wasn't until two years ago, I've had these 14s missing in my sides for 20 years. And then two years ago, I finally said, I gotta, you know, time is gonna pass. Let me get my Invisalign. Now I gotta get some implants back in all this stuff. And that's happening in the next, like, few weeks. But it's. I put it off because I did not want to.

See, that's what I mean about relatability. I hate going to the dentist. They give you all this bullshit about it's painless. Yeah, no, the dentist is painless, but it's not anxiety less.

For weeks leading up, they're like, oh man. So what is the thing that's intimidating you or scaring you now?

I haven't decided yet, but I'm really studying that. in my life right now and talking to Robin about it. And I don't know what it is, but I know there's another chapter that I'm getting ready to open. I just don't know what it is yet. But I know, and I wasn't even thinking about that two, three, four years ago, but now it's a really hot topic with me now. So I don't know what it is, but I know it's... You feel like.

There'S an itch for a new season, a new chapter of something.

And I'm not sure what, but is.

There any potential realms of what ideas or industries or where, you know?

Not yet.

Not yet. But you know there's something, there's something calling you, pulling you.

Yeah, 100%.

Wow.

But I don't know what it is yet, but I feel it.

Wow.

I feel it. I don't think it's gonna take the place of anything I'm doing. Sadly, it's gonna be an addition to what I'm doing.

I'm gonna add to the plate.

Exactly. Robin's already interrogated me about that.

What's the thing you're most proud of that maybe most people aren't aware of? Obviously, people know about the success, they know about the impact you've had on people's lives, they know about the financial abundance you've created and all the lives you've changed, but what's maybe something they aren't aware of that you're really proud about?

I'm really proud, and this isn't going to be a shocker to people, but I can be specific about it. I'm really proud of the young men that our two boys have become. And they're both very financially successful. I don't mean that. I mean, I've watched my two sons are both fathers now. Jay has a daughter, Avery, and she's just 12 and his son London just turned 10. And my youngest son, Jordan, who's a musician on tour right now, and he has a young daughter that's just five months old and another one on the way. They decided to close together by design. He and his wife, Morgan, and Jayce married to Erica. And I've watched these two young men become fathers. And I've seen the depth of.

Their.

Commitment and their loving and caring and the gentleness with which they've stepped into that role. And I'm really, I'm not surprised, but I'm really proud of the way that they've done that, the sacrifices that they've made. It is as simple as being up at three o'clock in the morning with a smile on their face, you know, feeding the baby and stuff like that and and the husbands that they've become. And you always, you always want your kids to thrive and be happy. And I've, my goal was always I was going to work until I knew that my family was well provided for if I fell off the world tomorrow. And I didn't mean just financially, but that they were you know, happy and secure in their lives. And I've had to revise that goal because they're way past that. They're both really happy and they're good citizens. They're good people. They treat people well. They're polite and caring. I see, you know, Jordan's on tour right now and I see him with thousands of fans around. He's always kind and nice to people and the same with Jay. I just like who they've turned out to be.

That's cool. How does someone heal and get to a place of healing in a relationship if they one or all four of these things are happening? Is it possible to come back and love each other more than ever or is that kind of hard to come back from?

I think there's power in forgiveness. I think you have to step back and label these things and say, look, here's what we're doing. This creates wounds. This creates pain that it's real hard to recover from. We need to acknowledge that and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And if you can get a couple to acknowledge that and stop doing it and hold themselves to a higher standard of communication, then yeah, you can heal those, but you've got to be willing to forgive what has happened in the past. And forgiveness isn't a feeling, it's a choice. Most people think that it's an emotion, it's a feeling, that you've got to wait for this feeling of forgiveness to fill your heart. And that's not true, it's a choice. You choose to forgive the person. Doesn't mean you forget, but you choose to forgive them for what they've done and forgive yourself for what you've done. But it does do any good to forgive it on Monday if you turn around and do it again on Tuesday. so that means you've got to forgive it and then hold yourself to a higher standard. So, okay, instead of this contemptuous behavior that I show and calling names and assassinating their character, what am I going to do instead? How am I going to express my emotions in a less destructive way? And when you do that, then, wow, you say, this didn't last for two weeks, it lasted for 15 minutes. And now we're having dinner. Wow.

Right.

And then we had a nice evening and we were even laughing and maybe had a sexual encounter that night and that had momentum into the next day and gee, we're turning this swarm, you know, it's turning around.

Yeah.

Is there anything else that's, you know, you do on a daily basis that you always do that's a consistent, you know, for you as a non-negotiable in your marriage?

You know, I think it's, we don't ever, even if we're traveling, we don't ever go a day without making eye contact and To me, eye contact is something that has really, really fallen away.

Powerful. Especially the phones just like this, right?

Yeah.

And I've, yeah, I say I've played football in grade school, junior high, high school college, and then raced motocross for a long time. and my elbows are really bad and I can't button this button on my shirt. I can try to do it with one hand, it takes forever. So forever, Robin always has to do this button on my shirt. So every day that I have to change suits twice a day and all that, so Robin always buttons this button and stuff like that. So at least twice a day, She's always right here doing that button and every time she does we make eye contact right there when she's doing that button and she will tell you that that's a special quiet moment every day when she buttons that button and makes eye contact. Nobody knows what's going on but that's a private moment twice a day when she knows my button and puts that on.

What happens if in those moments you're maybe distracted or preparing for the next show that's coming out? Are you just like frantic, you're eating something, you know, it's just like your producers are in your ear. How do you stay focused and present in those moments?

When she's doing that?

Yeah.

When she's... You can't be that close to her and look her in the eye and be just distracted.

It was like, okay, you're just there.

Yeah, you'd have to know she's, she'll get your attention.

Yeah, she'll find a way. She'll do something. That's beautiful. Eye contact. I think people have lost the art of eye contact, like you said. It's something that I love to talk about and love to, I almost love to be awkwardly looking people in the eyes to see, can they look at you back, you know, whether it be in an intimate relationship or a friend. I do this with hugs as all also. I hug people for a really long time to see like, okay, can they be intimate and connected or is it uncomfortable for them?

I've got a new show on CBS, a new primetime series called House Calls with Dr. Phil. the first thing that I've done with a lot of these couples that are in such dire straits is just have them stand up and make eye contact. And you would be astounded at the difference it makes when I make them stand there and make eye contact.

What happens when they do that? Just for a few seconds? The minutes is.

No, I'll make them stand there and make eye contact. and I have them, the first one I did, I had them make eye contact and really hold it way past the point of comfort and then say one of four things. I trust you, I don't trust you, I don't know if I trust you or I'd rather not say.

And what usually happens?

Real powerful moment.

Wow.

These are people married.

Yeah. Yeah.

And in the first episode, her son had died from a drug overdose and she blamed her husband for cutting him off.

Mm.

And they really hadn't touched in two years. Oh man. And In that moment, they hadn't really looked at each other and she looked him in the eye and just totally broke down and collapsed in his arms and said, Of course I trust you. What have I been thinking?

Wow.

Just in the first 30 seconds of that episode, just making eye contact brought him back to, what am I doing?

Why do you think we're so afraid to connect in the eyes?

Intimacy.

I could talk to you for many hours about this and hopefully I can have you back on sometime in the future, Dr. Phil, but I want to ask a final few questions to wrap things up. And again, thank you for your time and all of your years of wisdom. Very relatable and I think this relationship section specifically is going to be powerful for a lot of people. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the three truths. It's a hypothetical question. I'd like you to imagine that you get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but eventually it's your last day. And you continue to accomplish all of your dreams and have the relationships you want to have. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, all of your content has to go somewhere else. It's not here on earth anymore. So all of your shows, your videos, your books, this podcast, it's gone for whatever reason. But you have three lessons you get to share with the world. I call it three truths. The three things you would kind of leave behind as lessons for people to live by. What would you say would be those three truths for you?

I think number one would be.

You.

Get one bite at this apple. It's no dress rehearsal.

So.

Don'T Don't waste time. Because I do think we, like I said, let days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, and then we look back and say, you know, where did it all go? This is not a dress rehearsal. So, you know, grab on. make the most of it.

And.

I think, I think secondly.

I.

Think people really struggle with that existential crisis of, you know, feeling emptiness at different stages in their life. And I would tell people When you feel that emptiness, the best way to fill it is to give away that which you need the most.

Ooh. Yes.

If you're feeling lonely, find someone.

That.

You can see and tell is more lonely than yourself. and give them what you need. We've been through this quarantine. There are people, you know, maybe it's an elderly person living in your apartment building or down on the corner, and you know they're alone, you know they don't have family, and you're sitting there and you're feeling disconnected and alone and empty, Go give to that person, knock on their door, back up six, 12 feet and say, hey, I know you're here by yourself and I'm on the way to the store, can I pick something up from you and leave it on the front porch? You probably don't want to give me your cell phone number, but here's mine. If you would like to FaceTime and talk or if you're mowing your yard, just keep going across your driveway and mow theirs. Give away what you need the most. I promise you it will fill you up faster than anything you can do. Give away what you need. It will heal you faster than anything you could ever imagine.

Yeah.

Okay. That's number two. Number three.

I would tell people to really be your own best friend. You know, we judge people really harshly. but we don't realize how harshly we judge ourselves. And, you know, I had the privilege of being friends with Maya Angelou before she passed. And, you know, she's known for being such a great poet and all, but she was also a really good, good woman and had a great sense of humor and was a lot of fun. She said something one time that really struck me. She said, you, did what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better. And I think that really describes the human experience. I think we do the best we know how to do at the time. and when we know better, we do better. You know, I say that to heroin addicts, you know, they say, I'm a piece of heroin addict. You know, you're doing the best you can today, and when you know better, you'll do better. We got to cut ourselves some slack. And we need to be our own best friend and not judge ourselves so badly. When we have more tools, we have more coping skills, we'll do better. Just don't give up. I'm the incurable optimist. I truly am. And I think that I think this human race is going to be okay. I know right now we're not getting along as a society and we're divided and people say, oh, it's the worst division we've ever had. I guess they forget about the Civil War.

Right.

Kill everybody. I just tell everybody don't be so hard on yourself.

Yeah.

You're doing the best you can. If you want to do better, learn better.

It's creating this vision for your life that's compelling. But there's this other thing. I love Think and Grow Rich. It's one of my favorite books of all time. Next to my scriptures, my favorite book. But you don't just just think and get rich. You have to do things. And by the way, rich can mean more bliss, more happiness, more peace. But you don't just get those things by thinking. There's some things you have to do.