The SECRET To Manifesting & Achieving ANY GOAL You Have! | Payal Kadakia & Lewis Howes

When you're living your plan B, success is someone else's success. You're living inherently based on someone else's expectation of you. And therefore, I think you got to have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. We were talking beforehand that most people have dreams, but they don't go for them. Something you were saying. You have been going for your dreams your entire life, but why do you think most people have them and never go for their dreams. Why do you feel like limited few actually do?

I think it comes down to being inspired by different stories. I think you have to see it to believe it, right? That's one. You really need someone to follow and be inspired by. I know this sounds strange, but when I was younger, I didn't see anyone who really looked like me or who I think was this hybrid of different cultures and then also even different personalities. Like, I knew I was analytical, but I was also very creative. And so I would be one of those people who would be doing math homework, but I'd be watching Beyonce and Britney documentaries because I loved that entertainment side and that creative side as well. So I think that's a big chunk of it. And then at the end of the day, society has conditioned us a little bit to have fear of doing things differently. And we need to learn to listen to ourselves, to be very, very confident in our identities, right? Not care about what other people think of us, to not be scared of failure. to really push through those things. And a lot of it requires you to just start. And you can start in the smallest way, whether it's, you know, we were talking about it. Sports, you know, for me, it was dance. It taught me the tools of life. And I think we forget that sometimes it's the smallest things that we do that teach us those lessons for these great things that we do. ClassPass would not exist if I didn't learn how to dance in a small basement when I was five.

Really?

Yeah. Because so many of the lessons of how do you have discipline? How do you show up on time? How do you be prepared for something? How do you work through something when you can't do the step? Those are the same mentalities that you need when you're an entrepreneur who wants to go and build something big.

What's more important in your mind? Is it the belief in yourself? Is it being clear in your identity? Or is it learning how to master goal setting?

Great question. Those are all very different things and all important, but I think ultimately it's the belief It's the belief in yourself, but I'm going to change that a little to the why, too. I think it's the belief in what you're doing ultimately. It is the passion in your reason for partaking in anything that you do that's going to push you through all those challenges. It's the energy that gets people to join you in the battle. It's the energy that gets you to keep going when you lose part of the battle. And that to me is the crux of it, is caring enough about what that impact is. And it's not just about you, right? If it's just about you, it doesn't resonate. You'll quit. And if it's something about, you know, just about being famous or having money, that's not worthy enough. And your soul will feel that. And you'll know that it's not worth to keep fighting. So to keep fighting, you just need that deep, deep why.

So it's a belief in what you're creating, why you're doing it. Not just a belief that I want this for myself, but there's a deeper meaning behind it.

100%.

And so that's the first, is that one of the first things is having that belief in what I'm doing first?

Yeah, I mean, I think you need to have a calling, right? And I, you know, in my book, I talk about that as the first chapter because to me, if you don't know what you're driving towards, we can't even get into what's holding you back. You don't know where you're going, right? And so if you know where you want to go, your true north. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of things in the way, but you will fight your way through them.

I think I read that you started class pass around 27, is that right? Or 20?

When I was 20, I think it was, yeah, 27 years old.

27. Okay, so from, let's say, call it 18 to 27, did you know what your calling was?

So for me, it was all always about dance. Like my life revolved around this artistic expression that I actually found when I was three years old. I know it feels crazy. I know a lot of people don't always find they're calling that early, but for some reason when I was really young, my parents put me in like dance classes and I'd perform at like family functions. And I know this sounds weird because everyone's like, yeah, like that was like a little thing that you did on the side. But I think when I would perform and I would realize that I was impacting other people and their hearts and they could feel what I was feeling, I've started to realize what the impact of the sense of service could be, right? The sense of I was- Through dance. Through dance. I felt like as a human being, I could impact other people, right? It wasn't, oh, do I want someone to tell me I'm a good dancer or did I do the steps right? It literally was this amazing environment for me to say, I impacted people. I made them feel something. And I think once you know that we have the ability, it's a power, right? As like a human being to feel like, I have the ability to touch other people, and I discovered that at such a young age that, to me, I always kept striving for that feeling in my life and to whatever I did. Like, that just trumped everything else.

So it was more like striving for the feeling of connection and inspiration, but you used it through different mechanisms. It was dance for a while, but then it was other things, you know, class pass eventually.

Yeah.

Now, why not? If you knew you wanted to do dance, why go to MIT and not go to dance school and pursue dance as the main thing, the main calling?

So I wish that I wasn't burdened to society's expectations too.

So you mean parents and cultural expectations that you gotta go to the best school and you gotta be this.

I mean, my parents immigrated to America in the 70s, okay? Let's be honest, they sacrificed their entire life for me, my sister, I also felt a sense of duty to them, right? And, you know, they had literally, I mean, you see it when you're younger, just how hard they were working, like night shifts, like two shifts just to put food on the table. When you're around that, you're not just gonna go and jump off a cliff and be like, bye, you know? And I know they did it all for my education. So I knew I had to do something with that. And I don't regret it. I think, you know, I look back and, I feel like I had to learn to get off of that at some point. And that's the trick. It wasn't about for me just jumping off without having a plan. I think what they did is they set me up to have the tools and the foundation to be able to succeed in my life. Even though I didn't maybe see it at the time and I wanted to just go and do my own thing, being at a corporate job or working at a place like Bain gave me an amazing network. It gave me so many great parts of this journey and like the skill set that I would need to succeed, even though I maybe wanted to go and just, just dance. That all being said, too, is it's interesting, you know, and I think this is still like a topic and something that I'm still trying to figure out is that we, as especially as like immigrants, you know, or children of immigrants, we don't know how to necessarily like put our creative side first because we were taught to sort of put business side and the part that's like whether it's the doctor side or lawyer side first. And so we don't, fully know how to believe in our creative selves and say, oh, this is okay to do, because we've not seen many paths of people that look like us also succeeding in that world yet. So hopefully that's changing now, but that's another whole part of it. But yeah, for me ultimately it was really my parents and their guidance that I was listening to. But also, I think the most important thing is I spent my time wisely, so I never had to give up dancing. Right. And I do believe-- Kept doing it on the side. Kept doing it on the side. Like even at MIT, I was that person who second I would finish like my homework, I was dancing. I was like helping to put on a show. My life revolved around dance shows, dance performance, dance rehearsals. If I wasn't doing my homework, I was dancing. And everyone knew that. There was only like two things that were important in my life. And I think I was, I've always really been clear about that. And I think that's okay to be very, very clear on your priorities. So you go after that and I didn't let anything else bother me. And I missed family things, I missed friends' birthdays, but I was very clear on what my priorities were. And I knew I had to fight to dance my whole life. And ultimately, and I think people don't always realize this, ClassPass came out of that because I wanted to take that fight for everyone else. Because people were fighting to have fitness in their life, right? Movement in their life. And I knew I had to solve that problem because I saw what my fight looked like. and I wanted to make it easier for other people.

Interesting, interesting. So for those, I guess after MIT until you launched, was what, five years then, something like that?

Six years, yeah, after MIT. I had two jobs in between that I worked at for three years each.

Now did you feel like those five, six years was your calling? You were doing your calling?

No, not at all. I mean, I was split in two. I was faking who I was, right? Yeah, I mean, I was showing up to work wearing like, I don't even know, like business suits and all of that, acting like I loved what I did, but because once again, I was supposed to do that and I got this great job, like how could I not appreciate it, right? That's sort of how you feel. But I would leave every night and go to dance rehearsal. And, you know, I think one of my favorite stories is I got my first bad review. Like first time in my life, my third year at Bain. And I say bad, obviously that's like.

It's like a B plus. Yeah, as opposed to an A plus, I got a B plus. That's like my dream to get a B plus.

Indian Barons were like 99. Why isn't it 100? That's sort of the mentality we were raised in. But, you know, I had skipped a big client meeting to go to a dance performance. And, I always think back to that. I was trying to make both things work and they were so different. It's not like anyone I was at work with was doing anything similar to what I was doing on the side. And so I had this huge performance and I thought my boss was okay with me skipping it. I wasn't a big part of it. And then it comes up in this review and she was like, are you serious about being here? And actually my first reaction, and this is what I always go back to, was I'm going to prove to her I belong here and how great I am.

And you're probably working 50, 60 hour weeks at least. More than that. Yeah, you're probably like showing up first.

And leaving late anyways. Yeah, absolutely. And so it's like to feel like you didn't do enough. Wow. And so that's my first reaction, right? And so I spend like a little bit of time thinking through like how I'm going to prove that I'm amazing and I deserve to be like number one, 99% again or 100%. Then I realized, I don't even really want to be doing it. She was actually right.

Do you really want to be here?

I don't want to be there. Back to your question, really when I was going through those journeys, I didn't know. I was doing what was right, trying to live my passion through a side hustle, which I feel like most people know about. But I was two people, and it's kind of, really hard when you're living your life once again, just not feeling like you fit in either. And so then I made this first big leap in my life that I think was like the first decision where I was off track was to go to corporate America and work at in the music industry, which it was a great job. Like it, by no means is that a bad job. Most of my friends were just going off to like HBS or, you know, and doing something really crazy with their lives or staying on to be consultants. So I felt like I was taking a step back from that. Finally, from that professional career everyone was trying to tell me to do, and I went and built my dance company. That was actually my first startup, is I started a dance company on the side. And I got off work every day at five, six o'clock. I knew I would, which was something I'd never had before. And I got to go to dance practice, dance classes, rehearsals, and I knew I would make it. And I think that freedom of having just that time that was predictable for me from the thing I loved, became really important.

You're such an underachiever. You talk about Plan A and Plan B in the book. Do you feel like you were living in Plan B then for those years?

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I was trying to explore a Plan A, but I didn't really, I think I was always compromising.

What happens when we choose a Plan B or C versus going for what we feel like is our calling, what we feel like keeps speaking to us inside, which we think is Plan A, maybe it is not, but we think it is. What happens to us spiritually, emotionally, physically when we are living Plan B?

-I mean, you are not living what you were meant to do and put on this earth for, right? At the end of the day, whatever your dharma is, right, your calling is. You were meant to be doing something. And honestly, once I started going for it, and I think this happens to other people as well, the world and we'll guide you through it. The universe helps you when you're there. And when you keep pushing it away, it's actually harder to feel any of the signs. And back to a feeling of stuck or whatever anyone might be feeling, when you are in motion in place of going to where you're supposed to, the world will lift you up, right? The signs of even when people are like, how did you build ClassPass? And we can talk more about it. Part of it was sometimes I felt like the universe was just opening the right doors for me. I had to walk through and do the work. But I also felt that the things that were meant to happen happened because I knew I was meant to build this company.

You were on the right path.

Totally. And I was doing what was like set my soul on fire at that time. And I think while I was still dancing on the side, all of that, I knew I had to fight this battle for the world. And that was what my gift of classpass really was in doing that.

Yeah, I think the world, the universe really, rewards you when you start taking those actions. And maybe it gives you some kind of beginner's luck, but it should show you signs that, hey, we're gonna reward you at least a little bit to know that you're on the right path. Sometimes it takes it away and it makes you go through the challenges to see if like, do you really want this that badly? What are you willing to do to overcome the challenge? But I think you should start to see that early on. Now, did you feel like, where does identity play in then when you're living in Plan B? Are you truly living in your identity? And how does that affect your identity?

You know, our identities are shaped from such a young age, right? And whoever we're around, the communities we build, all of that. And I think, first of all, I think for me, like I go back to the youngest phase of my life where I faced a lot of adversity for being Indian. And it's scarring, right? Like it was one of those things for me where I never wanted my American friends to see my Indian side. And in front of my Indian friends, you know, I was completely Indian, right? So it was totally two different personalities.

-It'S a split personality on that.

-Totally, absolutely. And I think that also happens with your Plan B. Back to that, right? It's you just start going through your life because you don't know what success looks like anymore, right? When you're living your Plan B, success is someone else's success. You're living inherently based on someone else's expectation of you. And therefore, you don't know what the end is. When you're living your own life, you know where you're going. And every part of the journey feels a little bit more like you're achieving something. And success is the journey. It's not about actually getting to an end point. And I think that's the difference. People are always like, How are you so happy? And how are you like, keep going? I'm like, Because every day I feel fulfilled because I am moving closer to something I wanted to do. If I was in a day job that I did not like, I'd want to what? Only want a promotion, right? Or only want a salary raise because there was no other way to sort of reward me for how I was feeling. From the daily work of meaningful work.

Of being in the right place. That's why I tell my team a lot. I'm like, listen guys, this is the mission we're on. We're here to serve lives. We're here to help people improve the quality of their life through this content. If that's something you're excited about, awesome. We wanna support you in your growth. If it's not something you're excited about, you shouldn't be here. Absolutely. Why are you doing something you don't.

Fully feel aligned to?

Absolutely. There's other jobs out there. Yeah, and maybe you don't like 100% of what you're doing, but you should be in alignment towards the mission. Absolutely. And otherwise, go find something that you.

Are more in alignment with, with your skills and your strengths. And you'll learn more from that and take it with you, right? At the end of the day, like even for me, like working in the music industry felt a little bit off to me, but you know, like I got to meet like Daniel Ek at Spotify, like when Spotify was first and me and him hung out and he like, once again, like when I started ClassPass, people were not entrepreneurs, right? Like we were kind of talking about that early on with podcasts. Like it's one of those things that no one around me was an entrepreneur, but there I got to meet someone like Daniel who built an enormous, obviously, company that transformed our lives as well. And I think it brings you the right people when you're even a little bit closer to it. And so being in the music industry felt a little bit more creative and it felt a little bit more- Closer to your callway. Closer, closer. closer, not fully there. And life is about kind of shooting the darts at and try things. And sometimes you get closer. I think the thing that people mostly get stuck on is they want to circle around the same thing, but it's okay to go a completely different direction sometimes. I think it is. And I think it's okay if you're.

In your 20s when you're just trying different things and you're realizing, okay, this isn't what I want. You can eliminate that. Try it for six months or a year. I did so many little odd jobs when I was younger. I was a truck driver for three months. I was a bouncer at a nightclub on the weekends. I was doing random stuff. I was like, okay, I don't want to be driving a truck.

I don't want to be doing that.

I don't want to be here around alcohol night because I don't drink alcohol. But sometimes you just got a season in your life where you got to make money. So it's okay, what can I do?

100%. You know, actually, and you bring up a great point. I think we forget the importance of money. It is important. It shouldn't guide our decisions, meaning I really believe in this idea that you have to make money work for you. You don't work for money.

What does that look like?

That means that you put a plan together, you know what your budget looks like, and you make your life and plan for the future work to that. I, you know, was making great money. I had great jobs, right? But I was making six figure salaries. Yeah, great. I mean, I had great jobs.

I was so frugal.

And the reason I was, and people didn't realize this, it wasn't just because, like, people are like, oh, because you're a Gudrati, which is a type of Indian, which is like, tends to be cheap. It wasn't because of that. It was because I knew that in the future I wanted to take a leap. I actually at that point had no idea I was going to go and be an entrepreneur. I didn't know if it was this idea of dance, but because I was so inspired from when I was younger to impact people, I knew there was going to be a point in my life where I was going to do something and I didn't want money to feel like a constraint because I saw the way it constrained my parents. I've seen it in so many of my friends. And I'm like, I don't ever wanna spend a dollar if it's not giving me something. Like, of course I need to sleep, I need to eat, I need to get to work. Like, that was what I needed to do. But everything else was, I was able to sort of like, I didn't travel, I didn't go shopping because I was like, I'm saving this to either put on a dance show or take a big leap in my life. And that's what I did. So make your money work for your dreams. And sometimes it's in the future, right? Like, I did that for six years. And by the time I got to the point when I wanted to start my company. I sat down with my dad. We went through my entire savings. We put down like a budget of what I was spending my money on. And we both realized that I had three years to go after my dreams. And that's amazing.

A runway.

A runway of three years before I would be like, A lot of time. Dead zero. Yeah, I mean, my apartment was like $800.

Yeah, you're living frugal on that three years.

It's fine though, but yeah. But I mean, I made it work because, you know, the idea of being able to have freedom from money to go after my dreams for three years was incredible, right? And think about people who also, and this happens all the time, you might start a company, but you need to still make money on the side. That mental distraction is also really hard. When you're building a company- you- need.

To go all in.

You need to go all in, especially if it's, you know, businesses are different. Like ClassPass is a bit of a different business than other businesses, but when it was something like ClassPass that I knew could be this transformative, I knew it required 180% of me. And if I was sitting there trying to be like, oh, how am I gonna make money on the side to just pay my bills? those few hours of my day, the stress of it, also just feeling like once again, I'm living a plan B there. It ends up affecting you, right? Going back to identity, when you're in environments that don't make your identity thrive, you end up losing your confidence a little bit. Right. And that is sometimes the worst spiraling effect that happens. And I think I've been always really good about starting myself with either my dance friends or people I really love and I know are going to support me. And I'm very okay with like getting rid of the people who don't serve me and my future. And I think that's a very hard thing to do, but you have to protect yourself in order to be able to create the impact in the world. It's not about being selfish. It's about actually protecting your mission so you can impact other people and give, you know, greatness to the world.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people may seem like that's so extreme to be that frugal for that many years. Yeah. To work so hard for five, six years to save all your money. to give yourself a few years of runway. But these are decisions people need to make. Okay, do you want to spend all your money and live kind of month to month or have a couple months of savings because you're enjoying your life?

Absolutely. And if you are, that's great. That's great. Totally. It's just be conscious about it. Right? Know what you're doing. Exactly. Be very, very, make it something you consciously do. So once again, money is not running you. You are running it. Like you said, that is a great way. I know people who live like that and who are very happy. Exactly. I just knew that. Like for me, as someone who I, once again, I didn't know if I was gonna be an entrepreneur or artist or what, I just knew I was gonna have to take a leap and I felt like I was doing a lot of it because of I needed to have enough money, right? Because that was the biggest thing my parents really wanted for me. It wasn't really this idea of six, I had checked every box for them.

I went to a grade school, all of that.

It was no longer about- you- worked a corporate job. Yeah, it was not about that. It was about having enough money, you know? And I once again, I didn't know where those three years were going to take me. But I was going to try. And I always knew I had a good, I did have a plan B after that.

Right, yeah, you can go back and work corporate.

Yeah, exactly. I had a plan B, but I knew I wasn't going to think about the plan B until three years were up.

Yeah, you were out. In the book, you sell people that need to know their numbers. What does that mean? Are you checking your financial numbers every day, every week, monthly? What does that look like? And why is it important to know your numbers?

I mean, once again, without knowing your numbers, money will just disappear or you can't track it, right? And once again, you can't come up with a plan. And so, especially, and I say this to women, I think, even more, because sometimes it's harder, I feel like, for them to even sometimes get into the numbers, right? Whether it might be somebody, if they're not the breadwinner in the family, it is so important because money can make you feel like you're trapped if you don't have enough conscious knowledge about it, right? And so at the end of the day, you have to know what's coming in, what's going out, how are you growing your money over time? And if you don't know these things, like there are lessons online that you can learn, there's tools like Mint and apps like Learnvest where you can actually put your knowledge into this and really figure out how to make your money work for you. I think that's such an important part of it. Yeah, I mean, money, like I said, can be very constraining for people and it can also be the dream. But a rich life is not money. And we just talked about that, right? It's really about waking up every day and loving what you do.

Absolutely.

So you want to actually be able to earn that over time.

What would you say were the three best financial investments you made in the last decade?

Ooh, that's hard. Well, obviously ClassPass and my time, honestly, is, I guess that's not a financial investment, but to me that was, right? Like to me, foregoing those three years to build my company is a big one. Let's see, I just recently invested in, Olipop, which is a really fun brand that I like. And I invested in one of my friends Deepika Mutiyala's new, it's called Live Tinted, and it's a beauty brand about different skin types and different skin colors to be able to really transform what the makeup industry looks like.

That's cool. What else around money should we be aware of since you're someone who seems like you were very organized around money since Corporate days and then building this company and selling this company it seems like you've been very disciplined and organized and smart with your investments Hiring people the right way all that stuff. What else should we know about managing or mastering money for ourselves?

I think you have to be comfortable talking about it.

Yes, God, I see this all the time. I think people are so afraid to just talk about money. Yeah, why do you think people are so scared of it?

I think because there's so many expectations on it because we think for some reason society has made that like a marker of success. So it becomes like this taboo thing to talk about, right? It's funny, right? Like if you think about followers, we all see that, right? It's just like a different currency, right? So I think there's a little bit of that. I think people, it's complicated, right? At the end of the day, like it's a little bit complicated. You're like, wait, how do I do the math on this? Like, I don't know, but know, you know, once again, back to your earlier question, you don't need to know it every day. I think it's just a matter of having the knowledge of it and not letting it sort of, you know, run between your fingertips and get away from you to a point where you're like, how did I end up here? Right. You want to be in a place where you're planning where it goes. I mean, especially if you're working so hard, it's so important to know where every single one of those dollars goes. And I think that goes to my other point is after talking about it, and especially I think in relationships, talk about it because I think like- Talk.

About money and relationships.

Yes, because I think, you know, especially like when you get married or any of that in a family, people also have different like ways that they were raised and that they value money differently. And I think it goes down to what does money mean to you? Like my husband loves cars and I'm like, I realize that. I'm like, great, I don't really value that, but you value that. And like, you know, and sometimes he'll be like, cars mean the same thing to me as dance means to you. And I'm like, okay, like it took me a second to like, fully understand that, but I was like, it's really a passion for you, you know? And I had to understand that that's something he loved, right? Instead of being like, wait, why are we spending money on that?

Why are we spending this much money on that?

And for him to be like, wait, why are you spending money traveling around, dancing, whatever? It's a really important conversation to have, you know? Because you don't-- Of course, when it comes to time and stuff, people are always supportive, but when it comes down to numbers, you really need to know how it's working. And especially, I think, once again, back to the mom thing, like if you need help, right? And I think that's a very hard thing for women to ask for is help because they want to do it themselves or they don't want to spend the money. I love delegating and outsourcing things that I feel like are not fulfilling my time. Especially, of course, you got to be in a position to do so. And I understand that. And there was a time in my life where I definitely was not in a position to do that. And then there's another time in my life where I was like, okay, how will I be able to really add the magic to the world I want to? what do I not want to be doing, right? And whether that's asking my mom to do it, right, or a cousin to do it, you have to also learn how to make that work so people can, you know, come and help you. And I think it's a very hard thing for people to do.

Yeah, it's very challenging. So what was the conversation you had with your husband, Nick, around money that worked well and what conversations did not work well around money?

I think usually when, you know, someone's like wants to buy something and like you immediately like are like, no, we can't spend on that, right? I think those were the worst because it's like stifling someone's dreams. and both of us work really hard. So it's like, why couldn't you afford anything? For me, it came down to, and I realized this for me, he doesn't want to track them as much as I do the money. So I realized, let me put all of this together. And I set these goals for us, like right after we got married, I'm like, let's get all of our money. I need all the information. If I have all the information and set a budget, I'll feel a lot better about it.

You have more peace of mind.

Totally. So I'm like, you can do whatever, but I just need to know that I need to know where it's going and how I can actually track it. At any point, you could have a lot of money or a little money, you still need to know where it's going. And so I think for me, it came down to having a place where we could track it. And we now have a family office that helps us. And I think what's nice, we check in with them quarterly, we go through the numbers. And I think just having that conversation, and even for him to just be like, okay, this is what we spent on, this is what we didn't spend on. It's good, and it's made me feel better. Just like I said, it comes down to knowing the numbers. That's it. That's me though. And I think everyone needs to know what they need. But once again, the more you know the numbers for me, it gives me the freedom to dream. And I think that's what you forget is that knowing where the money goes allows me to be like, okay, I have this much money to dream on. These are sort of packs I've always kind of had with my life. I'm like, okay, I'm going to save because there's going to be something I want to spend on. And I agree with you. You don't want to live your life not living it and not enjoying it, but at the same time, you want to know where your money is going so you don't end up in a position in the future where you can't.

Go after what you love. Right. Exactly. not have a cup of latte or something every day if you want to go spend that $5 or go out with your friends on a weekend or something. But just know that every dollar that's not being saved or being invested in your potential future dream is going to take it longer to actually start actually.

Exactly. And that's so, if you're in a job that you might not like, it's not about quitting tomorrow. You know, actually, this is, it's funny even, you know, when I started writing this book and, you know, my husband, he's like, All these little girls always come up to me and they'll be.

Like, I'm gonna quit my job. I think it's a smart idea. Yeah. I don't think it's, unless you're like.

Got something on the side coming in. Right, well there you go. And that was one of the things he's like, you should make sure you tell them the way you budget, the way you, I'm so into every one of these details. It's really risk calculation. Yes. Right? It's not taking a risk. It's about knowing, okay, I'm gonna go this way. And then when I get that information, I'm going to either go this way or this way. And it's about being calculated about that so you know where you can keep taking more risks. And, you know, I got to the point where I could take more and more risks over time, right? Like even when I think about my life, like being to going to corporate America was like a little risk. I mean, I still had money coming in. It wasn't, it wasn't like the greatest salary, but I had money coming in, which allowed me to go and explore something. And that felt good. So I kept just doubling down on that. Right. And I think that's why I always say, go back to like, just get started. Because if you don't know how to like even start feeling the confidence and whether it's money or identity, any of those, you just will get stuck in where you are.

What would you say are the three questions around money everyone should have with their partner that they're looking to get married to?

Oh, those are great.

Before you get married, what are three topics or questions around money we should have?

Yeah. How did your parents spend money?

Okay.

Right. Because so much of this, right? Like my, my parents, I think, you know, spent money differently than, you know, whether it's Nick or other people's parents that I know, you know, I think, and everyone's very different in this. Right. And it's just, it just depends on your situation, obviously, and, and what your income level is. Right. I think that is one. Two is what are your dreams? Like, if you could have anything, like, if you were rich in the world, like, what do you want? Right. I think it's like, knowing what you're dreaming towards of the life, pretend money wasn't a constraint, what's the most lavish life you would want? Because I think it's so important to know what that is because a lavish life to someone could be like, I want to go to Bali and travel all the time. And for someone else could be like, I just want to work all the time and be in my house. I mean, one of my favorite things with me and Nick is we both love working. So we would travel, but we're those two people on our computers working. We'll go out and then we'll keep working. And like that works for us because, but I literally was like, wow, if I was with someone who didn't want to go back and like work or just wanted to just travel without working, like it would not work.

Just relaxing all day doesn't work for you.

It just doesn't. I mean, sometimes it works for me for sure, but you know what I mean? It's like finding someone who's on the same wavelength. And then third, I think it comes down to knowing what parts of I would say your expenses either are something that you can let go of or that you would either want to spend more on. And I know that's a bit more of a deeper exercise, but knowing, like I said, knowing that cars were important to Nick and then dance was or being like, okay, food's really important to you, but if you're not matched on a lot of those, you're just going to spend in a crazy way. So it's really knowing what parts of the budget are important to one another.

Did you guys create like a money vision together?

We kind of did, I would say. It was something that we early on, I think, with our once we got some like a financial planner and I think of course either you can have a third party do this or you do this yourself. I think it's important to be like, you know, where do you want to live and when you're older, right? Like how many kids do you want to have? What kind of lifestyle do you want? And look, by the way, I, and I talk about this so much in my goal setting method, Having a long-term goal is great, but usually what you iterate and change as you go. And so while I like having pie in the sky dreams of what we want to do, you have to have very actionable things, like what do you want to accomplish in the next year? And sometimes it's really just having that annual conversation. I think we do this annually. We go through all of our numbers and we set the budget for the coming year. And I think that's a really important exercise to do in your own life. or in your family life. So you both are set and you're set even in your own goals of what you want to accomplish. Something might change midway and that's okay, but at least you've set your intention in terms of money through the year. Right.

A lot of people feel stuck and I think it's because they don't set goals correctly. They don't know how to set goals. They set them, but they don't work. So what is your method around setting goals and how can we set them correctly?

Yeah, well, it's a long method that I have. So, yeah, I mean, we can, we can do part of it right now. The first thing I always ask people to do is reflect because I feel like we, we don't remember that the last year of our lives or, like, the last where we are today comes from who we were. And it's so important to just kind of know what we're feeling today is you need a center. Where are you starting from? And so the first step in the process is I ask everyone to always reflect. Right. And I do that to myself. I reflect back on what has my life been recently? What are the words, right? Is it anxiety? Is it balanced? Is it good stuff? Is it bad stuff? What are the words that keep surrounding my brain and defining what I am today? Then I ask people to dream because it's the same thing. It's about knowing what words and emotions and thoughts. And once again, I really like not anchoring on accomplishments and achievements, which is usually what we do. We'll be like, oh, in this last year I got a raise and I got married and blah, blah, and had a kid, any of those. It's really just like, What did I feel in this last year?

Did you feel joyful, abundant, healthy, alive, connected, all those things?

Right. And then I think the most important thing to do is to look ahead.

Why is the feelings first before that? Why is the feelings and the energy of what you felt more important than the accomplishments?

I mean, at the end of the day, that's what makes you happy. Right? It's not, -: some sort of thing you checked off, which came. -: It is the journey of getting there, hopefully. -: -: and our emotions are important to listen to, you know, especially like, I think we forget how important they are to everything we do, the instincts that they give us, the importance of them in every part of who we are, and ultimately it drives our happiness. We tend to push them aside. So, you know, especially if we talk about things like money or, you know, these practical things, we put money or we put emotion aside a lot. But how are they not a part of your goals and checking in with who you are? When you are like, oh, here is what I want to do in the new year. If you do not check in with yourself on where you are today, right, and you are just measuring yourself by these big things, you have actually no idea where you are going to, where you even want to go as a human on that journey.

-Right. -So you make decisions based on emotions.

Or- so, first of all- what if.

You cannot trust your emotions because they are all over the place?

Yes, they're all over the place, but at the end of the day, you know if a certain emotion was prevalent, right? So it really comes down to, did you feel happy this whole year, or did you feel lonely this whole year? What was the prevalent emotion? Not the moment to moment. It's not that moment, right? That's why it's really about reflecting on the whole year and saying, okay, here's what I predominantly felt throughout the year. And then the next step is pretend it's a year from now.

Yes.

And you were looking back on the year. What words would you have hoped you said? Right. And I think, so it's kind of doing the same exercise and what would you want to have said about your year? What, what, you know, what few words do you hope are the prevalent words going through your mind through that year? And, right. So now we're not anchoring ourselves on like, I'm going to run a marathon or I'm going to get a raise. You're anchoring yourselves on like, you know, hopefully great words, you know, of I want to feel abundance, and I want to feel power or joy or whatever, and it could be anything. But it's about anchoring it. One of the words I remember I always needed in these, and sometimes I'm always still working on, is always this idea of home, because I've always been traveling and moving. So I'm like, how do I work on this idea of home? It wasn't about buying a home, which would have been the thing. It was about the feeling of home. How do you create a feeling of home? And that was a very different way to set goals for me, right? And I think this happens in relationships too. It's like very to be like, okay, I'm gonna date, I'm gonna do this. And even for me, and when I first started actually doing this process, I actually met my husband Nick like a month after I did it, which is like the craziest thing because-: the process of creating the Life Pass Method. The first time I did it. Wow. That was actually when I met him. And it's because instead of being like, oh, I need to not be single and like find someone. Yeah, yeah. I changed the word of love in my mind to being like, I want to find a long-term partner. And I just meditated on a different idea and word in my head. It was longevity in my head.

What were you thinking before that?

I think I was just like, find someone who will be there, loyalty or passion. It was just not, it wasn't, and I remember I had the word passionate as my last year word. And it was great. I think I was meeting people and whatever, It wasn't a long term- It.

Wasn'T stability long term.

It wasn't stability. Stability was my other word for my coming year. And I wanted longevity and stability. I didn't want passion, or I wanted something, I mean, I wanted passion too, but in a different way. It was this interesting anchor in my head to be like, wait, I'm looking and I'm then therefore seeking the wrong things in people. But I never even realized I was doing that because it wasn't a conscious thing. Because in my head, Just date and find somebody.

Right, right.

Hopefully you check the box off. But I didn't even know what I was really like, what I wanted to put my intention into. And so, you know, after you do all the dream words, the next step of the process is actually about tracking your time, which is another whole part of the process that so many of us don't do.

So look into the future. I like to tell people to imagine it's New Year's Eve.

Yeah.

And be in the moment.

In the year, yeah.

Yeah, in a year ahead.

Yeah.

What would you have liked to have felt and created in that past?

The same, right, exactly.

So let's pretend you're a year from now, whenever that year is, so step four of the Life Path method is, what were you saying?

So step one is reflecting, step two is dreaming. So now we're on step three, and so this is all about focusing now.

Okay. This is step three is focus.

Yeah, step three is focus, and we start by doing a time diagnostic. So writing down all the areas that you spend any significant of time on. Right.

So, your schedule, managing your schedule.

Yes. Knowing your schedule. Knowing your schedule. So it's like, what are the, you know, what are the 10-ish areas that take up most of your time in your life? Right. And this could be anything from like watching TV, social media, and obviously like bigger chunks of work. Um, I think it's important to break down, right? Cause sometimes it's creative work, sometimes it's administrative work. What are you really spending so much of your time on? Because you need to, once again, Where are you today? What are you doing? If you really want to create change in your life, you need to know what's taking up your time today.

Exactly.

A lot of people don't even know that they're like, wow, I spent hours doing...

Nothing.

Or taking care of my pet, whatever, and not even realize how many hours I do, right? Or whatever, exactly, even nothing. But there is something you're doing that is it on your phone? How many hours are you spending on just checking emails or social media, whatever it might be? Write that down because you don't know if it's serving you or not at that moment, right?

I dare people to track the last 365 days of how long they were on their phone.

Oh my gosh.

It shows you like the weekly, you were on your phone like four or five, six hours a day on average this week.

Screen time.

Check the whole year. I bet it's a month or two of your time.

Yeah.

On your phone.

Yeah.

Throughout the year.

It's a lot of time. You're right, it's probably a month or two.

It might be a month. I mean, if you're spending what?

That's a lot of time.

You're spending, say you're spending six hours.

A day or eight hours. Apple definitely has this information for us.

If you want to get it.

Yeah.

I mean, just say you're doing 20 hours a week, which is probably 30, 40 hours a week in seven days. So you're doing 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks.

Oh, what's the math?

What is it?

Sorry, 40 hours. You're doing 40 hours a week on your phone. 40 hours and 52. Yeah.

You're at like 2,000. Yeah, we need a calculator or something. 2,000 hours.

How many days are we saying? I don't know. Yeah, something. Yeah, I mean, let's see, 2024.

There we go.

We're at like, okay, let's just say, yeah, you're at, yeah, you're close to, oh my God, we're close to, we're close to what? 10 times 10?

100 days.

Three months. Yeah.

Three months of your year on the phone.

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

That's too much.

That's way too much time. Isn't that crazy?

That's too much.

Yeah, it's a little bit less than.

That, but yeah, it's three months. Even if it's two months. And you got to think about, do I need to be on my phone this much? Maybe if you're working and that's part.

Of your work, then I get it. But it's like, what are those extra hours? So that's like what the important thing is. Knowing your numbers of your schedule. Of knowing the numbers. It's just knowing what you're giving a lot of your time to. And so once you know that, then I think the whole part is knowing if those words are serving you or not. So the next step in the process is to actually rate those words. So giving them like a one to ten. So one means like- what type of.

Words would you say around this?

Yeah, so things like family, hobby, health, fitness.

Fun, adventure, travel.

Yeah, and you can be like, here's why travel, right? Exactly. I mean, fun is a bit more like, I wouldn't because it's like not as specific. It'd be really more like working, commuting, right? That's like a great word. It's like how much time do you spend reading maybe, you know? But there's also like I said, cooking. whatever it might be. Sleeping, you know, those are all the things that take up a big chunk of your time. And then the next step is to rate them. So now it's all about finding out.

Step four.

This is step. This is actually step three. B.

Rate. Rate them. Yeah. I love this. I love this approach.

Yeah. So now you're thinking about, does that time area serve my dream words?

Yes.

Right. Because that's where you're trying to get to. We already establish that. Right. We establish the feelings and emotions you're aiming for for the year. So you rate them on, you know, hey, like, is being on my phone for X hours a day actually serving my time, right? And serving my dream words, right? In the future is doing this part of my job, serving my dream words. And this is literally, it's not, you're not going to do anything yet. You're literally just once again assessing it. Assessing. It's just knowing, right? Because once again, you, until you know, you can't make a plan. Right. And that's really like, So much of this, and as we're even talking about it, I think it's about being self-aware about where you are right now to be able to get to where you want to go. If you don't check in with where you are right now, it's kind of.

Impossible to know where you're going to go. Yeah, and you may not be able to change everything overnight, but it's like, okay, in six months I could get to this point and then I can make different changes.

Absolutely. Right, okay, so that's, so you rate them. Now becomes the fun part. Now we get to go and pick four to five areas of our life that we're going to focus on for only the next three months. So this whole thing is a quarterly goal setting process. And the reason I do that is because three months is like a long enough time to make change. It's not a week, but it's also not a year where you- It seems so far away. It seems so far away that you don't do anything. And it also doesn't give you enough time to change, right? So now you're not kind of stuck in this place where you made a commitment to yourself for a New Year's resolution. And I always think about this one, like pretend you're like, I'm gonna run a marathon. three months in, you're like, I actually hate running. What are you gonna do? You feel like a failure then, 'cause you quit on something. So I like the idea that this is sort of quarterly. And obviously, I feel like seasons are quarterly. A lot of companies use quarterly as a financial metric and all of that. So it sort of works in the world, right? And so it's a three-month goal, so you get to pick, right? So you're like, based on your ratings, you're like, okay, I'm gonna focus on these areas. And I also think it's important that you pick a small amount of areas, because you can't change everything at the same time.

It's too much.

It's too much. And I think, you know, so- A couple of things. You can change a couple of things. But if you're like, I'm gonna do every single part, you're gonna fail at all of them. And then once again, this goes back to what I was saying earlier. If you don't get started in making progress anywhere, you end up feeling like you've failed at everything. Once again, like lowering your confidence, inability to like be yourself, take the plan A, like it kind of all, you.

Know, goes on top of each other and makes you feel like you can't move and you're stuck in that. I mean, it's hard to be perfect.

At your diet and work out three times a day and, you know, do all these things at once. totally. So you have to choose what's important to you right now based on how you're feeling. And that choice is up to you. It is actually no one else's choice. It's just hard to sometimes get there. So that's why I've designed it in a way that gets you to this place of being like, okay, like based on how I'm feeling, based on how I spend my time, based on how these areas are serving me, I am going to now choose these four to five areas to go after. And then you set many goals. that are very measurable and actionable in all of them. So then I go down and my whole thing is like, don't pick number, don't say things like more or less. You have to be very specific. Like, I'm going to eat three healthy meals a week, you know, or write for 30 minutes. You know, it has to be very specific. If they're not measurable, there are things that you're never going to know that you did or not. And I think it's, you know, in the book, I take people through like each of these advice tips that I have because I think you also forget to, think about the how, you always kind of get stuck on like the end game of where you want to go. Like, okay, I want to like become a chef. It's like, great, where are you going to start? You know, where do you need to go grocery shopping? Do you need to look at recipes? I want to learn tennis. It's the step, like sometimes in a quarter might just even be find an instructor. It's not even about like becoming a tennis player or even playing tennis. Sometimes the hardest part is just even finding where you're going to go. And it's okay if in your three months All you did was find the person you're going to end up going to class with the next month, right? Or the next three-quarter period. But that's the whole thing is it's about just making progress towards where you want to go instead of not getting started at all.

What's the next step?

Yeah, so now once you've picked the areas, you start setting goals. So you'll end up with four to five areas. We should just done your life.

Yeah, exactly. This is very similar to how I approach it because I, as an athlete, you know, we would be, I would go into the football practice. I remember when I first started playing football, I was a sophomore in high school. And what I noticed right away in the locker is each one of us in our lockers, when we're getting our pads on and getting ready for the practice, had a piece of paper, which was the exact schedule and timestamps of what we were doing that day for practice.

Yeah, there you go.

So we knew exactly on the minute what we're going to be doing to prepare us for the week's goal and for the seasonal goal. So everything I do is based on a season as well. Quarterly seasonal because sports are a season.

Totally.

And I'm obsessed by my schedule and scheduling in the most important things first and then working around that, not vice versa and putting the things that are important last, doing them first. And I think that's what's really important. For me, Spanish is really important to learn right now, so I'm scheduling it every day. I usually do the hard things in the morning.

Totally. I love that.

Working out is something important, so I schedule them. I did it this morning at 7:30.

And those are things that you sometimes can let go if other things end up becoming more important. But if you are like, no, I have to do this. This isn't up to somebody else. People know, I work out every single day. It's not an optional thing. This isn't a, oh, because I have time. It's like, no, no, no, this is a part of the work for pile. This is my work. a part of my day, it's not going to change. And I think you're the only person who can make that pack with yourself.

Exactly. And that's why I think I love that you're talking about the time and knowing your time and your schedule. Because for me, schedule is everything.

Yeah.

And tracking your schedule and seeing it.

So you talk about start setting your schedule. So now we're going to, yeah, so now within each focus area that we have, so you end up with like four to five focus areas, you set mini goals, right? So there's like, let's say you set three goals, really tight goals within each. So as I was saying, it might be, I want to take up tennis, right? So it literally might be, let's go and research, find three instructors online, read about them, look up the prices, sign up for a class. It's so simple, but honestly most people would probably be like, I've wanted to play tennis for years and never do any part of the process. Even if you ended up in three months with just a first class that you signed up with, that is progress.

That's something.

You know, and I think people forget to think of it that way. And that's why it's really important, right? It could be like, I want to write a screenplay. Okay, great. Where are you going to get started? It might be, Hey, like I'm going to go be inspired and read three other screenplays. And like, like I said, back to numbers, it's like read three, write for 30 minutes every other day. You know, it's about being very specific on it, right? Write 10 pages. And then you actually feel like you can check something off. which we all like to do.

See progress.

See progress, but you're also not setting yourself up to never do it, right? Because in those 10 pages, you're going to learn so much about yourself.

Yes.

Right, but writing nothing, you're never going to get there. And writing 100 pages probably feels too daunting. Too much. Right. So now you're giving yourself something really, really concrete to do.

Okay, and the next step?

So then that's it. So it takes, now you go through and you go through writing all the steps, and at the end you have a whole plan. You have a whole plan, you have 10 to 15 goals. to go after for the next three months. Bite-sized goals. And sometimes the goals will feel really small, like it'll be like cooked dinner three times. They feel small, right? And they're not crazy audacious goals that we might be used to, but those are the important little bite-sized goals that actually build huge things. Whenever I even think of class pass, like I said, I was telling you it was a dance class. It was like getting good in one dance class that taught me the skills and the tool set to really get to being a great entrepreneur. And it was like every day at the office that taught me to be a better leader the next day. So it's not, I set out my dream to build a class pass. I set out to solve a problem, but it was the lessons along the way and the little goals that actually allowed me to take bigger and bigger steps, right? When you get it.

What are three of the biggest lessons you learned from dance that helped you become a great entrepreneur?

I think the first one is discipline, just knowing that when my teacher is like, this is the way you do a step, but I can't get it, it's about figuring out how I'm going to keep practicing to keep getting to the place where I can actually get to that point. To teamwork, I think when you dance with a group of girls, and we always perform as a group, like every formation had to be super tight. It was really about knowing how do you, how do you work with people? Right. How do you transform together? How do you make sure that you bring people up with you when they might not be at the same level and a lot of that? And I think the third one, I think for me specifically, came back down to learning about where I came from, especially Indian dance. I think I didn't know enough about my roots. And I think this also once again helped my identity flourish for me was learning just the beauty of like the women I come from in India. And I think that's been like such an important journey for me. And I think for anyone who like plays a sport, whatever, like you get a lot of that from just you learn so much about yourself when you put in effort and energy and learn about, you know, the essence of something that you're doing.

Yeah. Let's go back to identity. How do you shape your identity now? What do you think about when you think about yourself in terms of identity?

Yeah.

And how can identity really support your growth versus how could it hurt you?

Yeah, I mean, like I said, you either split yourself into minutiae of different parts of who you are because let's be honest, the world wants to label you. It's just easier for people to understand things, right? I mean, you're in the content world, You know, it's just easier, right, for things to be clear. So people want to naturally label you.

Should we be labeling ourselves?

No, because none of us fit in a box. We're all different.

So how do you shape your identity then? When you talk about your personal identity, what do you say to yourself?

Even from myself?

Yeah.

I mean, it's hard. I mean, it's like, you know, we were talking about this. I will always, I like to be known for the work I've done, obviously. I think work that's especially timeless. To me, that is something. And I try and want to define myself personally by the work I do. And I have this thing, I'm like, create timeless things. That is really what, to me, my identity is. If I think about it holistically, whether it's a child to a company or art, create timeless things. But it's still hard, right? It's easier for people to be like, oh, she's an entrepreneur, she's a woman. She's a mom, she's a wife, right? Like it's very easy to do that. And look, that helps us because in a way it gives us a community, right? It gives us sort of that place to go. I think the important thing is not to get stuck in that and not to close our minds when we're in that world, right? So even like I was in like sort of the MIT business world and I was so lucky that I had a creative world that from dance that was so different than my day to day. That inspired me to be like, wait, people like classes, obviously, you know, in other things with their life and time. Or I would have sort of been stuck in the same exact thoughts and process that I was surrounded with. And I think we forget that is that we're, we are allowed to grab from different types of our identity. Right. So even, like, for me, when I talk about my dance identity or my Indian identity, I'm allowed to grab from that and my American identity. I cheerleaded for 10 years, like, It's like a very big part of me too. It's how do I become... I'm a South Asian American. I'm not Indian and I'm not American. I am a combination of the two. Right? And I think it's about letting those things flourish. And I'm not just a businesswoman and I'm not just a creative. I'm combined both. And all of those parts made me the person I am and also made me apt to be solving the problem I did. Right? And I think that's how you have to think about it is, All these pieces of us are going to come together to help us conquer whatever problem that we are meant to solve in the world. And it is about pulling from all of it versus shutting any one of them down because we feel uncomfortable. And sometimes it is like I said, it is about embracing the community. It is about learning from the art of the roots of something that you came from, even though we sometimes do not want to, right? We want to like, we want to put it aside. but you will be more proud of it as you get older. Even when I was growing up and I was learning some of these Indian folk dances, I didn't like them. I wanted to do more of like the- Hip hop or Bollywood? Yeah, or like Bollywood at the time. Yeah, exactly. Hip hop jazz Bollywood. But now looking back, I'm like, I love those. I love those more in a way because they gave me such a depth to who I was, which at the time when I was young, I was like, I don't want to do this. This is boring. Yeah, you know? So it's one of those things where I think you you learn to appreciate it over time, too. And I think a lot of people do that as they get older. You're like, oh yeah, I used to do that when I was here because so much of our identity once again is shaped when we're younger. But at the end of the day, it's about not getting stuck and not letting anything define you. And actually so much of this goal setting process of what I love is you can totally change who you are every three months. You can set a whole new group of goals. So you don't have to get stuck in the life you are living and like the dreams that you have, you are allowed to try something new. You could be an author, right? You can be an actress if you want. And you might like it or not like it, but you're the only one who should choose that. And you should try it, go for it, and say no if it's not for you.

Yeah. We were talking about this before about how, you know, when I interview like these gold medalists who are like, win the Olympics gold at like 16. and they realize that's probably the biggest moment I'll ever have, right? Like winning gold medal in front of a world platform of a billion people watching. How do I recreate that feeling of a gold medal ever again? Liz Gilbert talks about this from her book, you, Pray Love, where she's like, you know, it was probably like one of the biggest books I'll ever do. Maybe I'll be able to recreate that. How am I gonna sell 10 million books in like, two years of her again, you know, whatever it might be. How have you been able to shape your identity now after selling Class Pass for a massive amount, this being your baby for a decade? Where does your identity go now?

It goes back to the root of who I am. And I think it's funny, especially writing this book during this time. I actually have had so many times where I'm like, wow, I feel like I here I am the same same person like a decade ago, right? And going through so many of the same things. There was a point where I was like, wow, I feel split. Like my identity is in my corporate job. Do I want to build a company? What do I want to want to do? I didn't know I was going to be an entrepreneur, but I knew I had to seek out that inspiration and seek out a lot of it. And I think I'm right back there. I'm at this part in my life where I need to go back to what drives me. What do I love to do? Who am I? ask myself some of those really hard questions, which are obviously easier to say sometimes, but absolutely, I realized I need to do the work on myself again. So much has happened to me. And I think as much as I was, and when I was starting the company, this is the book and I talk about this so much, I was very in control of things. When you build something massive, a lot of stuff happens to you as well. It just naturally does because of the immensity of what you've built. And so much of like this process is like, how do I hang on to the things that I love and want to do? So there's like a sadness obviously in it. It's a very bittersweet moment, but at the same time, I'm also so ready to go and kind of do this work and map out this next decade of my life because I know there is so much more. But I'm going back to dance because that's what I love. And I feel like it just grounds me and in like my calling, it makes me feel like I can that's my first place where I know I can like feel like I have impact and like just the world. And I know there's more ahead, but I have to kind of go back to that.

Yeah. Have you reflected on the past year yet?

On the past year? Yeah, I actually was just doing it. I mean, here's the thing. I became a mom during COVID which was not easy. So, you know, these last few years have been tough, you know? It's just like one of those things. I think this past year for me was like a lot of celebration, but there was like loneliness too because you're, you know, I have a kid and like, some of my family can't come and see him and things like that. So, like you said, there's good words and bad words, you know, that, or not, I don't even like to say good and bad, but it's really just different types of emotions that are always there. And so I'm like, how do I take those things and set them for the coming year?

Have you started dreaming yet, or are you still kind of in reflection mode?

I'm a little bit in a bit of both, I would say. I feel like I like to do it right when the year is ending, so during that winter break is like the best time to dream. I mean, I'm always dreaming, but I think my dreams for the coming year, they're less specific in the sense of like, oh, I'm gonna go and do this. And because I think a lot of it even comes down to doing the work on myself. Like, I'm, you know, after this book comes out and all that, I'm like, I want to, I know I need to do work on myself, and that might require like a creative retreat and like time with myself, which is sometimes so hard to find, but I really need to do it because I can't, hear myself sometimes in the craziness of-.

Chaos of day to day.

Yeah, exactly. Change your pace, you know, try something new. And I know I need to do that. I talk a lot about that too. It's one of those things where when people don't know what their calling is, you sometimes just have to put yourself in different environments, right? And it's usually within you already. So that's why it's a combination of the two for me, where I need to clear the noise so I can hear myself, and then also try new things. to allow myself to see how I feel while I'm doing that, right? It's like you saying, like, I don't want to be a truck driver. It's like you just have to sometimes put yourself in different situations to be like, am I enjoying how my identity feels in this? In this, right? Does this feel right or wrong? And I have to be careful. And I think we all do is, you know, I don't want to ever be in a place where I'm like, oh, do I need to create class pass again? That's not what, you know, that's not what's going to be. Amazing. What does that even mean? Creating another company like that. To me, it was always about the impact on people's lives. Do I want to continue to impact people's lives? Absolutely. Will I? I know I will. Will it be a few hundred people? Will it be billions of people? I don't know yet.

But that's the journey I'll go on as I go. There's a lot of people that are inspired by you, a lot of women that look up to you as well, and they see you with the results you've created with this you know, impactful company that's helped a lot of people around the world. They see you as a mom, you know, as a wife, they see you with, you know, healthy, young, all these different things. Do you have any insecurities still?

Do I have any insecurity?

And if so, how are you navigating those? Because you seem extremely comfortable in your own skin and confident and you know what you want and you're accomplished. I mean, is there anything that you struggle with?

I mean, I think this is probably one of the hardest times in my life because I don't have an exact answer of what I'm working on. And I think my life has been defined by my work, you know, whether it's dance or class pass for a very long time. And honestly, like, even right now, like, I'm questioning everything. Like, where do I want to live? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I don't know. My husband knows this, obviously, too, but, like, I'm like, do we want to be on the East Coast, West Coast? Like, you know, and I realized that I'm like, I'm okay with throwing everything out the door to rebuild because this is an opportunity too. And even though, like, it's really hard, though, like, to kind of wake up and not know every day, like, I'm going to have this meeting and do this and where it's going to lead because I'm so used to having a little bit of that structure in my life.

Yes.

But that's really hard. And I think, you know, and as much as It's as much as it's like an honor to be this like figure for, you know, especially young women. It's also a lot of pressure, you know, and I think when you have to make decisions like in the spotlight in any way and there's like only a few of you doing it, it's a lot of pressure, right? And you want to make sure you continue to inspire, but you also need to be authentic to yourself, you know? And I think even for me, like, There was a long time, this is gonna sound strange, but like, I thought I couldn't dance because I thought the tech world would judge me, you know? And it was a really weird time for me because I felt I had to be somebody for like the girl boss tech world. And inside I was this like artistic human being too. And I had to hide her for a little bit. So I got trapped in that like many times. And and that's kind of, you know, the stuff I'm even working through now is wow, like when did all this happen to me? And it comes down to everything where society almost starts putting a lot of stuff on you. I think anytime you start, you build something big, the world starts trying to tell you who to be and how to define yourself and how do you continue to make sure you're centered in all that you do. And yeah, I mean, I have to go back to that all the time and really remember that I'm allowed to be me in all these environments. I still am the daughter of, you know, immigrant parents who have like expectations and things like that, whether it's like being a mom or a wife, and you have to really work through a lot of that.

I believe that there are three main fears that most of us have. The fear of failure, the things that hold us back from actually going after what we want. The fear of failure being one, the fear of success. You were talking about kind of the pressure, the weight of success that some people have, which what which makes them not go after what they want.

Sure.

Because they're afraid of that responsibility.

Yeah.

And the fear of judgment of other people or other people judging you and their opinions. Which one of those three fears do you feel like was, is, is the hardest for you to overcome? Fear of failure, fear of success or fear of judgment?

Probably fear of judgment. I would say I think I've worked my way through fear of failure by failing many times in a way. And honestly, I'm like just not scared. It's so funny. if something happens with the company or anything, you're like, okay, what do you do? I just know how to deal with that.

In your book, you said failure is a data point, not an end point.

Exactly.

Which I always say failure is feedback. It's just information.

It's information to help you get to success. I'm not really scared of failure anymore. I mean, it's hard to do it when you're more public, obviously, but I've learned to kind of work through that. That one is hard. Fear of success. is also, yeah, I mean, there's the responsibility thing, but for me, the way I've always been able to kind of, when I go back to my why there, I'm doing things for the right reason, and so it's success no matter what, so I feel like I get there. But I think fear of judgment, and I feel like I've built a really good toolkit. Like I said, I know how to set boundaries, whether it's even like, I have a block on my social media in terms of time, all of that. Like, I feel like I know how to control my thoughts and stuff, but at the same time, it creeps in, you know, and you really, that's kind of what, like, the cleanse you sometimes need to do is that. And, and it really comes down to.

What type of cleanse, cleansing of people.

Cleansing of, of social media, like, just cleansing of the things that trigger your mind into the same sort of thought patterns. And I, you know, sometimes it's like, Hanging out with completely new people is sometimes the best thing you could do who don't know you, right? Or who aren't putting in any type of expectation on you. When you hang out with like same people who are in a certain industry or a certain type of friend group, you don't realize that you are absorbing their expectations. And I've always loved having like, like I said, I have always had a very varied group of friends, like super businessy ones, super creative ones, you know, like just all in different fields. And I love that because I absorb from everyone to be able to, like, kind of become who I am. And sometimes, like, you really need to change. I actually think the reason, like, going back to even what's hard right now is covet's been really hard because we haven't been able to do that. And I think, like, I'm one of those people who absorbs energy from people and, like, who I'm around, my surroundings. It's like that empathy and that feeling. I create my art that way. I feel like I create products that way, and it's been hard to just not live, you know, and see people and to absorb. that energy that kind of gives you that like extra pep in your step, you know? I think that's been an interesting and challenging time, but yeah.

Are there any other fears that you feel like have you struggled with or have held you back?

I mean through my life that are.

Maybe not in one of those categories?

Yeah, you know, I think you always feel like, are you good enough? You know, I think like, I don't ever feel like, oh, have I done enough any of that? But I think it's just like, there's always like, you know, when I was pitching investors, you know, once again, I'd be like, am I smart enough? And it's like, I went to MIT, am I smart enough? But you still are like, I'm a woman, am I smart enough to people in the room? I'm 411, I'm this like small human being compared to everyone in that room. Are they gonna respect me as much as they would respect somebody else? You know, but I have always learned to just, if I do good work, that will always shine through. And I think I stuck to that mantra through this whole thing because there was a lot of people who said no to me, you know? Did I ever think it wasn't going to work? No, because I knew I was just.

Going to figure it out.

I was going to just fight, you know, because I cared so deeply about it. But it was hard when you're in these situations where people either doubt you, don't understand you, can't see it, right? And you have to just kind of get back up and fight the next day.

How do you learn to not doubt yourself when you go through a struggle or challenge? What is your toolkit or strategies to believing in yourself when other people are saying no to you?

So first of all, always go back to like the deep why, right? That you have. I think like for me, I was setting out to once again, give dance and this feeling of greatness to so many people. Going back to that, just spark you and kind of get you back up. The doubt is about controlling your mind, right? It is about controlling your thoughts. A lot of times, like I said, I go through this also in depth with the situation with my mom, where she really wanted me to obviously get married and all of that, and I get it, right? And I understand that from her perspective. and it just was something that I was like, I was focusing on different things in my life. But you know, something I did, and I remember a lot during that process when I was building ClassPass and there was so much good stuff happening and bad stuff happening at the same time, every morning I would share a quote. And this was like actually before like there was like Instagram and stuff. This was just Facebook and I would share a quote every morning. And the reason I did it is because it forced me to wake up in the morning. The first thing I did was like, go and scroll quotes. What a great way to start with a positive thought. And then I would post the quote, which automatically comes back to you during the day because people are commenting on it or whatever it might be. And I think it was a lot of just changing my mindset to that positive thought constantly. So when the doubt was there, either, like I said, I would set boundaries and be like, I'm not going there with you. And if it sometimes means not seeing certain people, you have to do that. And then on the other end is controlling your thoughts with what do you want to think about? Right? So to me, the antithesis to doubt is positivity, right? And it's like, I'm not going to listen to that. I'm going to focus on the positive, not the negative of the situation. So that person might be like, oh, I don't think there's a market here. I'm going to be like, I'm going to, there is a market here. I'm going to class right now and I'm going to go, right? And so I think it's one of those things that's about focusing on the positive. and pushing through it and letting the negative go away. And to me, this is about life too. I talk a lot about this too. A life of yes is so much better than a life of no. And when you have so much good stuff to say yes to, you don't even have time to say no. There comes a point where you're just like, I'm just doing everything in my life that I love. I don't even have time to say no. And it's so obvious instead of that guilt you might feel to be like, I have to miss this, you don't even have time for it because the yes is so obvious. And so like so much of this, and even in the life pass method, it's about designing it. So like the yes is so obvious, you don't have to question it. You don't have to feel like you need to even do the obligations because your list of stuff you have to do trumps everything.

Right.

Yeah. You know, and you believe in it. And that's the mentality everyone really needs to live by. And it's because if you take care of yourself, you are serving the human race.

Absolutely.

And I think that's the part people don't always get. Like I think about it, I'm like, imagine if the years I was building ClassPass, I was focused on all the things like I was guilty, like I felt guilty about and obliged to about. And I did probably feel selfish during that time. To be very honest, I felt selfish because I had to focus on my stuff, but I wasn't focusing on me. I was focusing on building this company. This company would not exist and have changed the people's lives that did. If I wasn't, quote unquote, selfish, right? And I hate using that word because it's not selfish. What I was doing was taking care of myself so I could be in service of other people.

Yes.

I know that's a very weird way of thinking about it, but that's how I always thought about it. And honestly, we all should design our lives that way. We are taking care of ourselves so we can take care of others, whether that be our family, our friends. If you're not the best version of you and doing the things that are truly pulling you forward in your life, you are not showing up as a great person to everyone else and giving what you are meant to be. And I think we forget to think of it that way. And we think giving is a very transactional thing of like, oh yeah, I showed up here and I gave you my time. Are you giving them the best version of you in that time? The happiest version, or the best version you could be?

I love that. How has the best version of you come out since you had your son?

Oh my God, it's so amazing watching a kid grow up and like a baby grow.

And what's the biggest lesson you've learned about being a mom the last year and a half?

It's much harder than I thought. I will be honest. I think nothing prepares you for motherhood. It's like having a startup again in a way, you know, but it's a 24/7. job, right? And I think as an ambitious woman too, just realizing what that is is hard and how you need to still prioritize your own time and your own goals and ask for help when you need. I very much, I used to always do that and be careful all my time. I became even more thoughtful about it because you just have to know exactly what hours you have. And sometimes that It's not as predictable with the kid. That's the hard thing. I was used to having predictable schedules.

You have to be more flexible.

You have to be more flexible. Absolutely. But you make it work. But there's nothing like the joy of seeing this thing you create just start growing up in the world. I mean, he just started talking and singing. It's amazing to know that you're there to guide their life. I think it's interesting when you're a parent, it's made me reflect a lot on what my role is in his life. And this word parent is such an interesting word. But my job is to guide him towards his fulfillment in life. And I really think it's about thinking about that. And there are times where I've caught myself wanting him to do things like, oh, he needs to talk, he needs to walk, going into the type A-ness that I want to. And I'm like, no, I need to enjoy this.

It'd be reading faster than any other kid. It'd be at MIT now.

But it happens to all of us. all of us, right? And you compare yourselves and you look at other kids and you're like, oh, wait, should my kid be doing that? And I've learned to just be like, he is on his own journey and I'm here to support him and raise him in the best way, environment I can. And what I want to just give him is a lot of love. That's like the number one thing.

That's what we need the most.

Yeah.

Oh, man. I'm excited about this book and these strategies for people. It's called Life Pass. A groundbreaking approach to goal setting. Drop your limits, rise to your potential. And this will be out right when we drop this episode. So I want to make sure everyone gets a copy and gets a few copies for your friends as well. Because I think people get confused around goal setting and how to do this for themselves and you really break it down for us and share some amazing stories. And again, talking about identity. I love that you talk about identity right away. I'm actually working on a book right now and I think identity plays a big part in our lives. So there's so many great examples and lessons in here. And I think, again, I love the part where you said failure is a data point, not an endpoint. I think so many people are afraid to fail as opposed to seeing it as information, as a data point, feedback, whatever you want to call it, to give you the tools now and what you need to grow into to accomplish what you want. So much good stuff in here. So make sure you guys get a few copies, share with your friends. post about it.

You should do the goal setting together. It's always fun to have somebody that...

Yes, find someone to do the accountability with you on the goal setting. Exactly. And leave a comment on this video or wherever you're listening to this. Make sure to leave a comment of the part of this interview you enjoyed the most.

I want to ask you a couple final questions.

Of course. This is called the three truths question. Oh boy. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. All right. You live as long as you want, but it's your last day. on Earth. So you get to live as long as you want to live.

Where am I going after this? I'm really into astrophysics.

So you're going wherever you want to go. Wherever you go after is what you want to do, whatever you believe in. But it's your last day on Earth. Okay. And you've accomplished all of your dreams and everything you want to do in life, you've made come true. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you to the next place. All of your messages, your content, the book, anything that's out there, we don't have access to your information.

Okay.

But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true from all of your life experiences.

Like three messages or three lessons that.

You would share with the world. And this is all we have to remember you or your content by.

Okay.

What would you say are those three truths that you would share with the world?

Wow. First, I would probably leave some Indian music behind because I really love Indian music and the most meditative, amazing thing in the world. And I feel like there's so many parts of my life. I listen to it, whether it's like Kirithan or Garba, which is like a type of Gujrati folk dance. And I feel like it calms me and I just feel like it should never be lost. And the world will get so much from it because it's timeless.

What lesson would that be if you had to leave the lesson behind?

Let's see. What's like the lesson from the music? I think it's about listening to your soul.

Oh, that's good. Okay. Truth number two.

The only thing constant is change. To learn to be flexible and adaptable.

Three.

You are unique and no one in the world. is made up in the same way you are. So live your life on your own path.

Yeah, those are beautiful. I love those. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for the incredible journey you've been on. Again, I think it's, I think growing up with, I didn't grow up with immigrant parents, but for someone who did, I know how challenging that is to go chart your own path and your own destiny against the norms of what your parents want or your culture wants for you from relationship at a certain time, career, school, all these different things. And going against what your friends might think or comparing you or thinking you're going off some crazy dream or whatever it is. And living your truth around dance and around being an entrepreneur to solve problems. I think it's really inspiring that you did what your soul, you listened to your soul and you went after even when it wasn't popular. Even when people thought you were a little weird in the corporate world.

Corporate world, tech world.

Never fit in.

You didn't fit in.

And I think that's really inspiring that not that we always need to break the mold or something, but you did what you felt like your soul was telling you to do. You listened to it and you leaned into it. And I think that's really inspiring to hear that story and then that's what you've been on and you're still doing it. So I think that's really cool. I also want to acknowledge you for creating something that is mission based and not self based. But thinking, how can I solve this problem for me, but hopefully for others as well. And for now, learning these lessons, sharing with the world with their books. So I really acknowledge you for, you don't have to make this book. You've made a ton of money. You don't have to work ever again if you don't want to. So the fact that you're actually sharing your wisdom and knowledge with people who might be struggling, I think is a really powerful and inspiring thing. So I really acknowledge you for showing up every day. on your journey as you reinvent yourself and your identity and your goals and all this stuff. How can we be a best service to you besides getting a copy of the book? Where can we go to follow you and find you? Yeah, I'm on Instagram.

I'm @pyle. So P-A-Y-A-L, not PayPal, as we were talking about earlier. @pyle. I'm @pyle on Instagram. You can follow me there. I share my dance journey there as well. I love the videos over there, you know. Yeah, I mean, like you said, I am just living my life as a person and a soul on this earth. I just want to keep creating timeless things, as I said. I think that is really it. It is about living a life that I love and not letting anything hold me back. That is what I want for the world through my book.

Inspiring. Okay. Final question, what is your definition of greatness?

Oof. Oh, God. Okay, hold on. Definition of greatness. It's doing what you love so well and not caring about what anyone else thinks.

Why is it such a taboo topic in general?

Yes.

I think for all classes, all individuals, I totally agree.

It's like you have, it's so funny because, and I wrote about this in my book, like for women, we have shame if we don't have enough money, but we also have shame if we have quote unquote too much.

Really?

Yes.

Why?

Because it's like, you know.