The TRUTH Above LOVE, LUST & SEX - Create A HEALTHY Relationship | DeVon Franklin & Lewis Howes

Love is commitment. Love is saying, hey, I may not even be feeling you right now, but I'm not leaving you because I love you. I'm committed to you. Right, But. But so often in dating, we're tethering the relationship to the quality of the fake connection with sex.

Welcome, everyone, to the school of greatness. We've got the man. Devon Franklin in the house. New York Times bestselling author, superst Hollywood producer and preacher of our times. Thank you, man, so much for being here. I appreciate it.

Oh, man, listen, thanks for having me. Listen, when you put up the bat signal, I'm gonna show up.

I love it, man. I love it. We connected, I think a few years ago when I had you on first. First time, and I think you've been on a couple times now. And we, you know, we live near each other and we've ran into each other on the streets, and I've been to your office and seen how you impact so many people with your, I would call, day job of Hollywood producer. But your, your, your mission is really your service to inspire and impact people through your books about relationships, your book about how to be a better man in the world and your. Your social media message of being an amazing servant of spirituality, of God, of healing, of faith and. And of just living a better life. So I appreciate you for all that you do, the service you are to humanity and to all men and women out there in the world.

Oh, man. Thank you, my brother.

Of course, man. Sir.

Man. Hey, we all in this together.

Of course, man. And, you know, people have been asking me, louis, how do we handle these times right now with domestic violence we were talking about before being up, because people who are in relationships that thrive already, where they had an escape plan to go to work or to hang out with their friends, now they're being isolated with. With. It seems like relationships either thriving on an all time high or diving on an all time low because of the isolation. How do we as human beings in relationships stay connected and loving without literally trying to, like, hurt each other in these isolation times? Do you have any general feedback before I ask you about your personal relationship.

And how you're managing it? You know, I think first and foremost, I mean, let's deal with the issue of domestic violence, which is really, really. It's just so upsetting to think that in a time like this, which should be bringing us together, that in some way bringing us more closer physically is causing harm to, you know, certain people who already were in abusive situation, I would really encourage anyone even if you're quarantined and you're an abusive situation, to still seek the help you normally would if you were not critical. Critical, critical. Even though it may be challenging, it may require, you know, either them going to stay with a friend or a family member or sorting something out, or maybe the authorities need to get involved, removing that element from the house, whatever has to be done. I'm a firm believer that just even with the quarantine or pandemic, that that should not be an excuse to stay in an abusive situation. As difficult and challenging as may be. I think outside of that, you know, when it comes to relationships during this time, you know, one of the biggest challenges if you are in a relationship, and it's two things. One, are you, you know, living together or are you not? And so that those. Both, those. Those scenarios come with different challenges. And I think if. If you're living together or in my case, you know, married, so you have spouse. I think one of the biggest tips on how to navigate this time is to make sure that each of you have personal time and also get the expectations clear about how the days are supposed to be spent. Here's why I say that. Because if you're working from home, like the majority of us are, there could be an expectation that, oh, well, we're both home. It's going to be like a weekend day, every day, every day for two months, right? We're going to be on the couch, you know, we're going to be watching movies, Netflix. And then, you know, if someone has to do work, that could be disruptive if those expectations are not set. So setting expectations about what is supposed to be expected every day for the relationship is important. The other thing is that each person still needs individual time, even if that's time to go walk around the block, even if that's time to say, hey, you know what? I'm going to be in one area of the apartment. Let's just say you can be in the other area department so that there is some still individual time, even though there's more collective time than ever. Because even in a relationship, we each need our own time in order to bring something stronger and greater to the relationship. If I spend every single moment of every single day, you know, with my wife, or vice versa, I don't know that I'm going to be bringing to her my best, because I haven't had a chance to read. I haven't had a chance to fill myself up. You know, I like to get myself filled up through a number of different things. So I have something to offer to the relationship. So I think these things are really critical expectations and having some personal time for each other.

What if you don't have a lot of space and cool.

You're in a studio apartment and on the other side of the couch.

Okay, why?

I'm gonna be in the kitchen. You're gonna be. You go be on the bed.

What do you think is a. You know, everyone's different, obviously, but what do you think in normal times when you can go out and go to work and have your friend time and be outside of the house? I guess. What do you think is a good proportion of time away from your partner in order to create the best time together? Or what's the best balance? Is it 50, 50 alone together? Is it 80% together, 20% alone? Obviously it's different for everyone. But what did you say is a general calculation?

That's a good question. See, I don't look at it as an actual calculation because every relationship is different. You know, Some could be 10% together, 90% apart and it works. Some could be 90% together and 10% apart and it doesn't work. Some could be 100% together and it doesn't work. Some COULD be 100% apart and it's great. Here's what I think it comes down to. I think it comes down to this idea of the expectation of the other person. Meaning if I am not, if I don't feel that I am responsible for my own happiness and my own well being and my partner is, I am going to be, it's going to be a problem. Because if I don't think that they're spending enough time with me for me to feel good or me to feel loved, because I may not feel good or may not feel loved unless this person is spending a certain amount of time. Time goes up and down, right? Life is difficult. Challenges. We get met with challenges every single day. I believe that when we have the most productive relationship is because we each take ownership of making sure that we are doing the things that keep us happy and keep us full. And if we do that, then, hey, you know what? This week, you know what? Hey, it could be 90, 10, 90% together, but 10%, I got to go on a trip. Or next week it could be 50, 50, or the week after that it could be something else. But because each one is not dependent on the other, it doesn't mean that the other person doesn't enhance. Right? Yes. The person that you love, when you are with that person, they Absolutely. Can enhance your happiness and enhance your growth. But if I am dependent, or if you are dependent on your significant other for your happiness, this issue of time is going to be a major fight.

There will be a never enough time. It's like, I need more and more, and the time you're with me, you need to make me happy and don't make me angry, otherwise we're going to be in trouble.

But what you just said, this is. Man, if I could work on one phrase in the. In a relationship, you make me happy.

You make me. You make me angry.

Right, right. But see, that's the thing, man. You make me see. What has happened is we. Then when anyone. Anytime someone says that they outsource their own personal responsibility to someone else. So then if we wonder why we aren't happy is because our emotions go up and down, because we've given someone else the control to control when we have, when we're happy, when we're not. It's like right here, you know, I got the remote control, right? If. If I want to watch what I want to watch, I'm gonna hold on to the remote.

You're gonna take control.

But. But if I give it to someone else, then I have to. I have to say, well, whatever they want to watch. But what if it's not what I want to watch? Well, it was my. It was my remote. I still gave it away. It doesn't mean that you both can't negotiate. Right. But what I'm not going to do is make that other person responsible. Because what happens is, if that person does not meet my level of acceptability in this area, then not only do I hold them responsible, but I judge them. And sometimes I misjudge their actions, saying, oh, you know what? Well, they must not love me. They must not care about me. They know that it's not true. Someone could love you more than anyone has ever. They just may be busy.

Yeah.

And their busyness is not an indictment on whether or not they love you or they don't.

Yeah. Are you. How have you. And your. Your marriage. Has it shifted since you guys have been in quarantine? Has it gotten stronger? Are you feeling like, oh, here's some ways that we weren't as strong that now we're diving into. What are the lessons you've learned personally in your relationship?

Yeah, you know, I mean, what I've learned, you know, a lot of the things. I mean, communication, setting expectations. I mean, you know, have you had.

To reset them personally? Have you had to.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because.

But you guys are like the model relationship. You guys have it all figured out.

No, no, no. The model relationship means we have problems, too. That's the model relationship, right? Hey, we're not perfect, man. We go through it just like everybody else. But here's. Here's how we were. How. We've been navigating it, right? Because we're still in it. We've been navigating it through, you know, it's almost like a reset, right, because she's, you know, acting and she was in New York prior to, you know, the virus hitting and everyone, you know, being, you know, working at home. So she was in New York shooting a TV show. And I've been here doing all the different things that I do.

So you had space and time.

So we had space and time. So we were, you know, she was on one coast. I'm on this coast doing what I had to do. We're checking in every day, we're FaceTiming every day, but we're not in the same physical space. And this has been the first time we've been in the same physical space for this amount of time in a very long time. Probably since the beginning of our marriage. Wow. So to be in the close proximity has actually been great, but we've had to. Because, you know, because she's an actress, there's not much she can do until her show starts again. But because, you know, I'm an author, I'm a producer, I'm a. You're working. You know, I'm doing. You got more work now, Preacher all, dude, for real. So we've had her and I have had to have a bit of a level set to say, look, my love, like everything that's going on in the world, you know, there are things that are put within me that the world needs right now. So even though I know I've always been busy, this is different. Because right now, you know, there's a real need to keep people's spirits lifted, inspired, to keep people hopeful. That's the. I mean, if we give up hope, then we've lost. So she understands that, you know, there's a need. But I also try to do my best to still plug in during the day that she'll sit up here in the office all day. I'll check in on her. How you doing? What do you need? You know, like this morning, here's a real small, simple thing. So, you know, look, I'm. I'm busy from sun up to Sunday.

That's just going, man.

Right. I'M going, I'm going.

Yeah, no time to check in with nobody.

But this morning she was like, she got up and she made a comment about the trash. And my first reaction was, well, you know what I just said? I said, okay, I acknowledge what she said, but my first reaction was, yo, I'm busy, I got stuff to do. Come on, take trash out.

Can't you just understand me?

Right? But, okay, but, but Louis, my brother, here's, here's what I realized. For her, that's an, that's important. For me, it's not about the trash. It's about acknowledging what's important to her. So if I had to push back a call for five minutes to go take out the trash so that she felt heard and the thing that was annoying her no longer annoyed her, it was worth the time period. It was worth it. So in a time like this, we've been negotiating and I've also tried to stay sensitive to what does she really need and do my best to fulfill it. With her also being understanding, there's a major demand on my time right now. So it does require her to be very understanding and very giving in that way. Because if she wasn't, it would probably create a lot of friction because this.

Is a new flow for you. Like you said, you've been married for what, seven years or something? How long?

Eight years in June. Eight years.

Yeah. And this is the most time you've spent together in one place in eight years. She's always acting, you're always working and traveling and busy. And what are some of the tools that you've used for the last eight years that you're still using now that are working this time? And what are new tools that you're having to learn and apply during this time as well?

Yeah, man. You know, some of the tools that we've used and we continue to use is, you know, one just, it's, it's having a general desire and commitment to the other's well being. This is a principle that it can take shape in many different ways. But to have a macro genuine commitment to the other person's wellbeing and to really, in your heart of hearts, want to make life easier, want to make life, want to improve life, and really want to be a support system. So that is something that both of us have had. Now, it takes shape in different ways depending on what's going on. But whenever we get into an argument or whenever we have a misunderstanding, we know that our heart is in the right place, our intention is good. So Maintaining a.

Even though you may not like what the person is saying right now, what they're doing, you know, overall, the intention wants to be a thriving relationship. You want the best other person care deeply.

Yes. Yes. And that's critical. That's critical because without. Without that. Because a lot of times there's a misunderstanding, not just because of specifically what is being argued about, but because sometimes there's a misunderstanding of intent. Because under. Underneath the argument is like, well, does this person intend to hurt me? Does this person intend to leave me? Does this person intend to disrespect me? There's all these things underneath the surface about intent. That's why it's important to be clear when our relationship. My intent is always good for you. Always. Always. So that has been a macro practice and tool that we've always used. Now, from a practical standpoint, we have absolutely had to navigate, you know, how this looks. Because, you know, there are seasons. Every relationship is seasonal. And it's. Man, listen, if it's raining outside, right? And you go out in some swim trunks, all right, like, you think it's gonna be sunny, it's gonna be a problem. Or if it's sunny outside and you coming in with the rain boot, you're coming out with the rain boots and umbrella, it's gonna be a problem. Why? Because in a relationship, sometimes we expect one season to always be the season.

You mean it's not always the perfect honeymoon season. The first year isn't every year after that.

You mean, brother, wait till you do it. You're going to see what I'm talking about.

You're going to see, I'm in year two of a relationship. I just finished year one long distance. She moved in almost three months ago. And the first six weeks, I remember saying to her, in six months, we're going to know if this is going to be long term. Like probably forever or, you know, long term, whatever that looks like, or see later, go back to Mexico because she's from Mexico. And we would kind of joke about it, but it was like everything was so perfect and amazing and no responsibility. And she had her things and I had my things.

Yeah.

And then we moved in. There was a level of expectation that was not communicated on both sides that we had to learn quickly. The first six weeks was a crash course in communication and dealing with, you know, frustration and hurt and upset. And when I was like, did we make the right decision here? You know, there's some moments of moments of doubt, but it never shifted my commitment to saying, I'm all in on you and our love, our connection and being here for you and being of service at the highest level. And if we don't work out, it's not going to be because a lack of commitment and efforts in communicating and loving this experience from my end, nor it's going to be your end. It's going to be because we weren't compatible or we didn't have the same values or whatever reason it didn't work out. And I tell you what, going through those, you know, it was first move to a new country, new culture, new language, new relationship, then Corona and be isolated and not have your normal routine of gym and working out and all these things. So we learned quickly. I'll tell you what, man, it made me. My old way of being would have been I don't have time to be patient. I don't have time for you not to understand me. I don't have, you know, how could you not see all that I'm doing for you, all that I'm giving, That's the old way of being. The new way has been I'm all in and committed. My intention is to make sure you feel safe, love and protected. And I think that commitment, that strong commitment that I have, that I, I'm like, I'm all in and I'm willing to be as patient as possible even when I'm busier than ever. It's made it so amazing and smooth. Now I'm sure she's a passionate Latina, so I'm sure there's gonna be some moments, but it's been like the level, the, you know, we're less reactive, we're so loving and listening and okay, how can I give? And I think coming from that place of service and giving both of us, even when one is maybe busier than the other, has supported the overall relationship and a beautiful way. And it sounds like that's what you're doing as well.

Yeah, no, it's the same thing, man. You know, I think the latest tool, I mean, we've had it, but. But it goes along with what you're saying. It's just flexibility.

Yeah, man.

I think that is just. Oh my goodness. And when we lock our relationships into this rigidity, we constrict the growth of the relationship. And I love what you're saying about being committed and also being more flexible than you've ever been, you know, being more open minded, being more giving. I mean, you know, and that's not easy, you know, when you have been single for a long Time and you're a man and you're used to things the way you want them to be, and then you invite someone else into your space.

Your space. Yeah, I hear you, man. Well, you talk about, you talk about peace over panic a lot. How do we. How do we implement peace over panic? When all we feel is panic and stress and overwhelm and fear and uncertainty? It's really hard to shift and just say, okay, this is a great concept and a great social media sound bite, but how do we implement peace into our life, into our relationship? When I can't stand to look at the person next to me right now, I can't overcome the fear of my financial stress, my physical stress, uncertainty of the future. How do we find moments of peace?

Yeah, well, you know, peace, I believe, fundamentally, when we have the most of it, it's when we have come into a revelation of what we can control and we are willing to submit to what we can.

Right?

Like that. That to me, acceptance, like, okay, you know, this is within my control. This is what. This is outside of my control. And I think specifically I'll talk overall and then I'll talk in relationship. So in a time like this, you know, panic means we give ourselves over to anxiety, right? So we watch the news, we give ourselves over to those headlines. We're looking at, you know, what's going on in social media and the challenges of this virus. And we look at potentially, you know, someone watching this may have already, you know, lost their job or been downsized or hours cut or needing to apply for unemployment, needing to apply for an SBA loan, needing to figure out how they're going to make ends meet. So for sure, looking at those elements or those variables sometimes emotionally produces panic. What am I going to do? But here's what I know. When we get into panic mode, when we get into worry mode, I don't know the benefit of being in that emotion. If we were to calculate what is the benefit that we get out of how much time we spend worrying and what do we have to show for it?

What results do we have?

Yeah, what results? So no matter how dire the situation, when we get into panic mode, we end up obsessing over elements that are out of our control. So when I say peace over panic, I don't mean to be in denial about the panic. I don't want anybody to be in denial about how they feel, because I think anything we deny, we empower to destroy us. So I want, yes, I want anyone going through this to feel the panic. Yo, I'm panicking right now. I'm in anxiety about my future. I'm in anxiety about my present. Okay, so then how do you get peace over panic? Peace is saying, let me become incredibly committed to working within my control. So what can I control right now? Well, I don't have a job. Okay, great. I can control the resumes I put out right now. I can control looking for a job. I can control who I call inquiring for a job. I can control. You know, some things that I might need to clean up on my LinkedIn page. There's a lot that's within my control. I can call the unemployment office. If I've been heard back, I can make sure the SBA has gotten my application. If I haven't heard back, if I don't have Medicare, I can go. Go ahead and get an Obamacare that's still available to you. Like, there's a lot when you really boil it down, how can I structure my days so that I can actually have more control and have peace? Because we're in a time now where everything is out of our control. Yes, we can. Social distance, and that's what most people are doing. But in terms of when the virus is going to subside, that's out of our control. The best we can do is do what we can and have peace about the rest. So when I talk about peace over panic, this is not some sort of mantra for denial. It's really a mantra for acceptance and also to be active. I do believe that if you and I sit in our rooms, apartments, houses, wherever you may be, all day in panic mode, we are. Our mental health is going to suffer. Our physical health is going to suffer, Our emotional health is going to suffer. So I know everyone watching this is going to go through different things, but one clear strategy to me is to focus on, here's what I can control. And then what happens is when I start to focus on those things I can control, it gives me more peace. It's like, oh, okay, all right. Yes, okay. I don't feel so hopeless or helpless. So important. Now, when you talk about that in a relationship, this is important because also, let's be honest, I've gotten a lot of inquiries, I'm sure you had, too, about a lot of people that are single, and this has hit them as a single person, peace is panicking. Yeah, I'm alone.

I can't go on dates anymore. I've been texting everyone.

Right, right, right, right. So, but here's what's happening, though, and I'll hit relationships about peace over panic in a minute, with some of the singles out there in panic mode, what happens? They creep back to people.

Old relationships that don't support them, that they let go for a reason, for.

A reason, for a reason. They let go for a reason. But all of a sudden, in a moment of isolation or social distancing or a moment of feeling lonely, you text that person, you say, hey, how you doing? Just thinking about you, how you making it? And all of a sudden, you start this emotional relationship again with somebody that you know isn't right for you. Don't do it under any other circumstance. You wouldn't go back. But that's what happens when we panic. When we panic, we treat things that are irrational as if they were rational. Panic changes our perception. So what we think normally would be, oh, I would never do that. Now you may think, oh, well, that's okay. So in a. If you're single, one of the key ways to have peace is to say, I am who I am. I know I'm great. I'm going to make it through this. This is going to be fine. I'm not going to lose any time. Don't even give yourself over to that. And guess what? All these dating apps are still working, right? You could spend some more time evaluating.

FaceTime relationships with people.

Yeah, right, right. And go on some FaceTime dates. You know, check them out, see what's going on, see how they, you know, they are. But don't allow yourself to think that this pandemic is going to be the obstacle to finding love. It won't. As a matter of fact, you're going to be able to see some things in some people that otherwise you wouldn't have been able to see. And you'll get clarity around that.

You know, it's interesting, I love that you say this, because it's easy for us to go back into old patterns, to create relief, to create some type of, I don't know, sense of love or connection or joy or whatever the feeling is. But, you know, it sounds cliche, but the obstacle in front of you is the greatest opportunity to find a better relationship. And some of that might be a better match or true love or whatever you want to call it. Because I'll tell you what, when I met my lady, we FaceTime every day for 30 days before I met her in person. And most of. And we spent, you know, the first day was 10 minutes on FaceTime, then it was 15, 20. Then you're on three hours, right. And you're like, okay, really connecting with this person over FaceTime to see if we have the same values, compatibility. Whereas in person, if I would have met her in the first night, it's tough to keep my hands off of someone I'm attracted to. If, you know, I'm saying, especially if I don't have the right as a single man. You know what I mean? But when you're forced to have distance, oh, man. Then you get to learn, like, is this the right match because of their values? Is this the right. Are we more compatible as opposed to having a sexual chemistry in the first night or first three dates and kissing or leading into the bedroom? Whereas that would naturally progress into a pattern of the past of getting into something without communicating about values or making sure that there's more than sexual chemistry because you know that it's not just about. I mean, you spent a year, I think, without sex with your wife. You wrote a whole book about it.

Yeah. Wait. Exactly.

And there's so much you gain by not diving into sex or that type of sexual intimacy right away. And you really learn, do I want to give this person more energy and more time or, okay, I spent a month on FaceTime. They're not the right fit for me right now. And. And this could be the greatest opportunity for you to find someone and connect with someone who could be a great life partner, lover, friend, all those things that you want out of a partnership as opposed to someone to bring you some comfort and sex right now.

Oh, man. Dude, listen, you're. Now, now you're the preacher's turning, baby. Let's go. I love it. I love it.

So that's why I think it's right there.

But on that message. See, this is. This is why I think this. This pandemic for dating can actually be really helpful to the point you just brought up. Because. Because. Because a lot of times we. We. You know, listen, I was. I was celibate for a while before getting married and wrote a book called the Weight about the value of waiting until marriage. And I know that that's not everybody's practice or everyone's commitment, and that's okay. But here's what I do believe. I believe that in order to know who somebody is, you should wait as long as possible, because a lot of times, sex is what is destroying your. Your. Your dating life. Because you're being. You're. You're being physical with someone you don't know. If you wouldn't give them the code to your phone, why would you share your body with Them.

Oh, snap.

Think about it. In dating, you're sharing your body with someone you don't even trust enough to give them the code to your phone, but then you're going to give them your body. Wow. And then we want to know why dating isn't working is because we aren't taking time to evaluate who is this person? Where are they going? What are they about? Anyone can trick somebody in the bedroom. Anyone can turn somebody upside down in the bedroom. And then they think, oh, my goodness, that's not amazing. That's infatuation.

Yeah.

Love is commitment. Love is saying, hey, I may not even be feeling you right now, but I'm not leaving you because I love you. I'm committed to you. Right. But. But so often in dating, we're. We're tethering the relationship to the quality of, of the fake connection with sex. Now, when you have love, right? And that's love there, and then you have sex, that's a whole nother discussion. Yeah. But a lot of times, in my opinion, now this, not every. This is just my opinion, when you put sex first and then you're trying to build that connection, it doesn't always work out that way. And so one of the things I think is critical during this period of time, to your point, is it's now these barriers are set up for those that are single to practice, you know, delayed gratification.

You're forced to wait.

They're forced to wait.

This is like, perfect for you. This is everything you've been saying.

Now you're forced.

You can't go see people. This is the greatest blessing in potentially your relationship or potential relationship for.

For sure. Because to your point, like what you said with, with your girl, which is amazing, your girlfriend, it's amazing that you all had time to learn each other. Do I like her? Do we have good conversation? Does she like me? Because when you're forced to go deep with somebody, then you understand what's there. Like if you, if you had sex, you know, first couple dates, you're not really worried about going deep. Like, I got what.

I got what I want. I'm good. I don't need to go deep. Yeah.

But by the time, by the time the relationship requires there to be more depth given the amount of time you spent, that's when a lot of relationships start to fret because, you know, a lot of guys are like, oh, well, I kind of got what I wanted. And the woman's like, well, no, I want more sometimes. And sometimes it's vice versa. Right? There are situations like that. But I think this pandemic time will do great for relationships because I really think, to your point, it will give us give those that are single more time to evaluate, more time to talk and discuss. Because conversation, I've been married eight years. I can tell you right now, conversation and communication is the number one thing to me to evaluate if this person is meant for you or not. They can look good, they can hug good, kiss good, all these other things. They can have great, you know, a great pedigree, great family, great education. But if you all cannot communicate and your conversation is not good, I believe that that relationship is not going to be strong long term because you're not.

Having sex 24 hours a day.

But you're talking all day.

And what are you going to do with the time between that? You know what I mean? That's the thing.

Yes.

That's when I realized, you know, in my personal relationship, I feel like, so grateful because I can sit there and listen to my girlfriend talk and tell these crazy, funny stories that she has. I'm just like, I enjoy my time with you, just connecting and just, you know, rubbing your hair and rubbing your back and holding your hand. And it doesn't have to be this sexual lusting experience all the time or whatever. And there's a place in time for that. But it's. Yeah, but it's like, man, I could go. I could go a long time with just being present with you because I appreciate you. I value. I love the way we connect and communicate and have fun and explore conversations and topics about life and God and what's happening in the world. I love your perspective and idea. Ideas on things.

Yes.

Opposed to just. I love the way we, you know, get down in the bedroom type of.

Right.

It can only go so far. And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make. You know, I think, and I'm not saying this is wrong, if you have sex on the first day or whatever, that's. It's your choice, but only your choice. When women say, okay, let's go here, and then they have an expectation for men to be meeting them at and they don't get there. This is going to get women to really say, okay, you're right. Maybe I should take time and space for this and really evaluate when we go there. I'm not saying it needs to be, you know, months or year. It's like, just evaluate it more and it's going to, you know, force men to really say, you know what? Now that I can't have this right now. I need to step more into being curious about this person and asking the right questions and, and showing that I'm curiously committed to wanting to date them in the future and not just trying to swindle them to have sex tonight and, you know, booty call stuff. So.

Absolutely. I mean, what you're hitting on is so good and it's so important getting those expectations clear because I do think that the way that dating has progressed, especially with the apps and whatnot and just the, you know, the damage that I mean, you know, you know your book, the Mask of Masculinity?

Yes.

You know, society has done such damage to men, meaning most men, the way that they live, are living in such a way where they put out the expectation that if you're putting out great and if you're not, I'm moving on. Right. So then as a result, a lot of women feel the pressure that even if I want to get to know him, I have to put out as a condition of getting to know him. Right. It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure, pressure. But let's be honest, a lot of it's happening right now. And I, my hope is that as men, that men really begin to look in the mirror during this time. To your point, you can't go out there and get sex. So what's really driving you? And have you been, have you been allowing some women, leading them on when you don't mean any goodbye? Yeah, maybe this pandemic time.

I've been there in the past. I've been there in the past.

Hey, I was there before I got married, man. So yes, I learned a lot. I learned a lot. But there was a time when I said, okay, you know what, I got to put away, I got to stop this because I'm not meeting these women any good. And I'm hoping that any man right now would look in the mirror and decide, who do I want to be? Have I been leading some women on? Am I just talking to some of them because I'm lonely or who do I want to be? And I think that in this period of time we got to, as men, we have. I love what you said. You know, it's like, yo, there may be times when you know things aren't the best. You, she may get on your nerves, but you're hanging in there, you're committed, you're committed. And my hope is that more men would be committed to the well being of the women in their life. And Sometimes the well being is I gotta let you go because I was never serious and I don't want to do more harm, I don't want to do more.

That's a hard lesson that I've learned the hard way. And when you, when you let someone go because you know it's not the right thing fit you are doing when you don't let them go and you know it's not the right fit, you're doing a big disservice to the only the other person, but also to your life as well.

Absolutely.

Because you're hurting yourself by saying, okay, I know this isn't right, but I'm going to just stick around a little longer. I'm going to try to do my best because I care about the person, I don't want to hurt them. That's one of the greatest disservices you can do to yourself, obviously the other person. But you're missing out on a relationship that is right for you or that's a better fit for you or that's more deeper, intimate love and connection, spiritual connection with the right person as opposed to should I be in this and constantly questioning every day and every week and I've been there a few times in the past and man, it's, it's wasted time. I don't want to say it's wasted time because you're going to learn, but man, I would rather get out of it quicker when you know it's not the right fit.

But it's not the right fit. No, man. And the good news, I think at a time like this is because, you know, everyone can't go anywhere now, you can't socialize normally, I think organically, you know, some of these relationships or dating ships are ending and coming to a head because the reality was there was not much there to begin with. And so, you know, I would also say to, you know, any woman who's single right now, you know, really evaluate the man that you were dating, you know, how does he check in? What's the quality of the situation? Do you want it more than he wants it? Don't put yourself in a situation where you feel like in that panic mode that if you don't just take the little crumbs that are offered, then you're not going to get any at all. Peace may be, hey, you know what, listen, I'm going to take a step away. I'm really going to social distance myself because I'm tired of getting the little bit. When you really want a full meal, you Know what I mean?

These women are hungry. They want the full meal. Let's go.

These crumbs, right? But you know how it is. You know, a man will keep giving crumbs if that's what's accepted, it doesn't make it right.

Yeah, if he can get the whole cookie, he'll give you a couple crumbs.

Every now and man. But I know every man accountable. Even I hold every man accountable. Just because that may be the way things could be operating now, that doesn't mean every man should do it. Right to your point. Right. You, you have lived and you have come to an evolution where you say, you know, as a man, there's certain things I want to do. Even if I could do it, I don't want to do it. And I'm hoping that this pandemic will really create more self awareness and more introspection into men and women around this issue of dating. And one thing I do want to touch on real quick is in a relationship, choosing peace over panic. You know, if you're in a relationship, I think the way you choose peace is that you got to know that if you're in this pandemic and you're in it with your significant other.

I.

Believe it starts in the mind. You got to believe this is going to bring, this is going to bring us closer. It's not going to break us apart.

Yes. You have to create that intention and say, do every challenge. Like you said, it's going to make us stronger and more fortified and it's going to build a foundation for our castle empire.

Whatever you want to create. Yes. Because if we can make it through this, then on the other side of it, our relationship, our marriage is going to go to another level. So instead of focusing on the annoyances and, oh, I can't believe this, and the frustrations, I think it's a matter of looking at it saying, okay, this is an opportunity to grow. This is an opportunity to communicate better. This is an opportunity to clarify. So instead of focusing on what's not working, try to flip it so you can see how it can be used to benefit the relationship, not to the detriment of it.

I love this. And how do you think we can increase intimacy in our relationship right now besides just having sex during this time? What are some things that both men and women or gay partners can do to cultivate more intimacy without sex?

Here's the number one question right now to do that. What are you afraid of right now?

That is good, man.

Come on. Because here's what's happening? Everyone. Everyone is human. And we all have some fears. Some have more fears than others, but we all have fear. But what happens is in a time like this, sometimes there's a temptation to want to be strong for your partner. So as a result, you don't really voice what's really going on on the inside. Yo, I'm scared. Like, man, I need to. I know I have a job now, but what if I don't? When this is all over, you know, how are we going to make it? We had hopes to buy a house. We were supposed to do this. What are we going to do? You know, my mom, she's older. How is she going to be like, whatever the fear may be, if you want to get closer, talk about your fears in this season, be open and honest and say, I'll be honest. Here's what really scares me right now. Here's what I'm really worried about right now. That's not a sign of weakness. That's a sign of strength. And what happens is in that vulnerability, a stronger connection is built. Because you'd be surprised that maybe your partner, your significant other is afraid of some of the same things or they have different fears that they've never expressed. It is okay in a time like this, be in touch with your fears, because here's what happens if we don't get in touch with that one question. What we find is that the relationship, when it could go deeper, it actually becomes more artificial because every interaction is just like, oh, well, what do you want to eat? And what do you want to watch? And, you know, who are we going to zoom today? And let's go walk the dog or whatever those things are, and all those things are fine. But you find that what's really going on, you don't talk about, and you don't have to even that your partner doesn't have to be equipped with a solution, but just to be able to get it off your chest in this time, I believe is the one thing that everyone can do which I believe will produce tremendous intimacy. Outside of sex, what has there been.

That'S powerful and I love that. I think everyone should have those conversations today about ask, you know, and start. I think you. You create intimacy by starting with vulnerability first, not asking the other person, what are you afraid of? You tell me first, and then I'll tell you. It's by you, you leaning into that, Hey, I want to have a conversation about something I'm afraid of, and I wanted to have an open conversation about it. And express myself and have any. And listen to you if you have any fears and figure out how we can come together during this. And I'm curious, have you had any fears that you shared with your wife or she had any with you that you guys have talked about?

Oh, yeah, yeah, we talked about a lot of fears. You know, I mean, we are. We have not started having children yet. We were planning on doing that later this year, but with the delays in her productions and obviously with the pandemic, it looks like that's going to be put off until next year. And so we've talked a lot about, you know, our fears, you know, around that, you know, around, you know, how we can navigate, you know, getting even closer to be the best parents that we can be and, you know, fears of, okay, you know, the strength of our marriage and how it can endure change, child, you know, bringing your child into it and what our dynamic is going to be. So, yeah, we've had some really, I would say, very healthy conversations about fears. And they have been at times difficult, other times not that difficult. But, you know, the good news is that even in a conversation that has been difficult, going back to that intention, we know our intention is good for one another, so we've been able to sort it out and talk it through in a way that has been positive.

I'll tell you what, anytime. I've had a lot of difficult conversations in the last three months with my girlfriend because of the nature of moving in and Corona and all these different changes that we're both having. And every time, I shy away from the difficult conversation. And there's a time and a place for having space and coming back together. But every time that I don't want to talk about it, we don't come closer. And every time I'm like, okay, I'm going to be the Zen patient master today, and I'm going to ask every challenging thought and say everything that I need to say, even if it's painful or hurtful. When I lean into the difficult conversation, that's when it's like this beautiful thing blossoms afterwards almost every time. It might take a couple hours, but it's like, okay, we both come to an understanding. We both approach, appreciate, and acknowledge the challenging things we needed to say. But, man, we came together stronger. And it's so, for me, I'll speak for myself. It's always been very hard to have the hard conversations, but Now I'm finally 37 and learn through a lot of pain and agony and mistakes that, no, that's the. That's the beautiful juice. And the fruit of the relationship comes from those challenging conversations, from my personal experience. And the beauty that comes in afterwards is priceless. The peace you gain afterwards as opposed to the underlying, you know, stress of not having the conversation. For me, it's been amazing. And again, we're not. We're not perfect. We're still learning, and I'm sure there's going to be challenges.

Oh, man, you'll be learning from now until. But yes, but it does, man, it does. It's amazing, though, right? It's amazing that when you're. When you're able to communicate and when she's able to communicate, what that does to the relationship and how that builds that intimacy and brings you closer. Because even though we may not be verbally communicating, especially when you're sharing space with someone, you're always communicating. Always, always. So that whatever's bothering you, you're communicating it. So when you actually get a chance to verbalize it, it really, really. I think, you know, if you're verbalizing the right way can really help relationship.

I feel like. I feel like, Devon, you're like the model husband and man. And I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure Megan would be like, yeah, but if you really knew him, he's not doing.

That's right.

So I understand. We all have our, you know, our personal lives and experiences, but I'm curious. What is the thing you do every day in your relationship that you're really proud of, that you do as a. As a man and as a husband? What are the. Maybe it's a something you say, maybe it's an act, maybe it's something you don't do. But what's the thing you do every day that you're like, you know what? This is makes me proud for the husband I am being that I aspire to be. Even though you're not perfect, but you're proud you do every single day. Could be small, could be some big gesture.

What do you. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the little things, you know, I mean, I'm. I always check in with her. I always say, I love you. We pray every day together, you know, and I always check in with her, you know, what do you need? You know, what can I do for you? So even as the demands of the world for my time increase, especially in a time like this, I never want that to happen at the expense of her knowing that I'm still committed to her well being. So it's just those small things, you know, it's a small things. Hey, you know, what are you doing? How you doing? What do you need? You know, I love you, you know, like just those little things and it's really, and that's what it really, I mean what it's built on. I think any great relationship is just built on little things.

It's not these grand gestures every day, it's the little moments.

No, no, because I think, I think anyone, anyone who is trying to do a grand gesture every day is going to get worn out.

It's exhausting.

It's exhausting. It's exhausting because then you get into performance mode, you know, oh my goodness, if I perform then I'll get the applause. If I get the, if I perform form then, then they'll love me versus no, I'm just going to be, I'm just going to be. And I'm going to stay connected, I'm going to stay committed and just in those little things that to me is what lays a strong foundation. And so for me, you know, again, I'm not perfect. But I think that she would probably agree I do those things right as well.

Imagine you've been married 50 years, 70 years, a long time and you get to look back and, and reflect on your way of being for those 50, 70 whatever plus years you guys are married and you look back, what would you be most proud of that you did consistently over decades? What is like the ultimate thing you could do as a husband, you think in the future for you to look back on and say I'm proud because I showed up in this way. And what would that look like for you?

Not allowing my, let me phrase it in a different way. A lot of times in my experience, in my perspective, I see that a lot of husbands seemingly demand the sacrifice of their wives own dreams for the support and pursuit of their own. So for me, I think I would be very proud of never putting that on the relationship to the degree where she felt like she couldn't become all she wanted to be because I was demanding her to be that for me at the expense of being it for her. My hope as you know, 50 years or whatever that I would have have helped create an environment in our marriage, a wife and me never making her feel that that's a choice that she ever has to make. That to me is something that I would look back on and pray that I would be living in such a way where you know, 50 years from now we could make we could assess it, and this statement would hold true. Because I see too many women give up their lives, their energy, their ideas, their purpose just to support. And I'm not saying just because supporting some men, you know, I get it, but what about you could still support and still become. But in some, you know, marriages, from my perspective, sometimes that's not really supported. That idea is not supported. It's like, no, if I'm the man and I have a heavy schedule, I need you to do this or I need you to do that. You know, I feel like, as a man, I want to live in such a way where she is free and she can become and she can do. And she never looks back and says, well, if he hadn't wanted me to do this, you know, I would have. I could have done that. But he told me not. No, I don't want that. Then maybe situations where she on her own says, you know what? I'm not going to do that because that's not good for my marriage. But I want her to come to those decisions on her own, not because I'm demanding that she becomes something different to be with me. That is something that I would like to see.

Yeah, that's powerful, man. I got a couple questions left for you. Before I ask them, I want to make sure everyone go. Supports you and follows you on social media because you've got so much more of this good content on your social media. You're preaching every day. You're teaching about relationships. You're showing behind the scenes of things you guys are doing in your life. You're showing stuff from the Hollywood angle, movie angle. So make sure you guys check out different. Devon, how else? And get your books. How else can we support you before I ask the couple final questions?

Yeah, you know, look, I mean, I'm on Instagram and Facebook, Evonne Franklin and Twitter, and, you know, I have a mentor mail group, you know, through my website, devonfranklin.com for men. For. No, no. Mentor male men. For men and women.

Got you. I thought you said you mentor males. That's what you said. Got mentor male.

Male. A. I. Oh, that's cool. So, yeah, you know, people are, you know, signed up all around the world, and I, you know, send out a weekly message to try to inspire and keep people informed.

That's cool. And where's that at your website?

Website, yeah. Devon franklin.com.

Okay. Yeah, definitely check that out. And do you do a texting message yet?

No, man. Are you on the texting?

Yeah, I'll get you if you want to get set up with it, let me know. I'm sure you got connection.

It would be dope. I'd love.

It's big man. Okay, this is a question for you. So make sure. First off, make sure you guys follow Devon because he's an inspiration. And I love your. Your messages of spiritual connection that you have to the world and how you're constantly in service to all of us. You know, you're sharing your preaching from there, and I love that. And I wanted to lean into that type of content that you do for a moment. And I would like even for you to imagine a scenario that everyone in the world who is in an isolated setting right now, a relationship of pain. They're with their partner, whether they're boyfriend, girlfriend, married, but they're in a painful relationship, and they can't get out because of isolation. And I want you to imagine all those people are watching and listening right now. And you've got a minute, minute and a half to give a message for people who are in pain or in a relationship that feel like they're stuck, they're trapped, they can't get out. They don't know what to do. They don't know how to get out. They don't know how to communicate. They feel a shell themselves. What message? No pressure. What message? If they're all. If they're all listening and watching you right now and you could share one message with them to lift them up or give them some peace, what would you share?

I would share that you got to find one good praise to help you navigate your pain. Here is what I mean by that. Pain can be so severe, especially when you are talking about the dynamic you just painted when you are in something, you can't quite get out because the pandemic has hit and. And you can't go anywhere right now. You can't fix it. So you are in pain, right? So you may be with a partner who doesn't want to communicate, who's not trying to talk to a therapist. You can even do a zoom session. You may be with someone who just does not want to become better. And the moment that this is over, you've already made the decision, it's over and you're leaving. But until then, you have to endure. So every moment is painful. The way to deal with pain, I believe, is praise. You got to find one thing that you are thankful for. One thing. That gratitude, that thankfulness, that praise. And so, you know, it could be a song, it could be an idea, it could be Life, whatever it is, you got to find that. Because that praise will help you navigate the pain. Because I am in pain. But you know what? I am still grateful. I am alive. I am here. You know what? I know what my plan is when I get out, when this is over. I already know my strategy, and I am just going to take it one moment at a time. That praise, that gratitude, is what's going to help anyone listening right now navigate that pain. Because your pain can be so great that it wants to trick you into not being grateful, into not finding one thing. Wow. And. And so what you got to do is that you're. You're. You're. When you have a praise, like. So we're talking about a spiritual standpoint. Like, you know, I'm from the black church, right? So, you know, when we talk about praise, Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Amen. You know, praise can be like a song or like an affirmation or a scripture, you know, or a praise of God, like, God, thank you. Thank you. You know, getting that praise, if you don't share that experience, praise can still be a positive affirmation, something positive you're grateful for. When we choose that praise in the midst of our pain, you would be surprised at how it helps someone in that situation navigate the very pain that seems like it's going to destroy. Because it's really hard when we choose gratitude. It's really hard to be disgruntled and gracious at the same time. The moment we say, you know what? I'm grateful. I'm alive today. Yep. This relationship is terrible, but I'm alive. You know what? I'm alive. I got something to be thankful for. I got my praise, right? You know what? I'm so glad that this virus hit because it revealed who I was actually living with. I didn't even know because we were too busy. We were running. Now I see, oh, wow. We need some major help. And if we don't get major help, then, you know, we may have to separate. But I got the revelation, so as much pain as the revelation gave me, I got that praise because I'm thankful. Because there's nothing worse than to have been in a relationship that was false. Now you're getting the real. So this is what I would say. You got to get a praise to.

Combat your pain and have a sense of peace, knowing that the future will bring peace because you'll get out of it. If that's the case, if it's not supposed to be, if it's not supposed to Work out. You're going to have peace in the future once this is done, because you're going to end it and you've got clarity. I remember at the end of last year, 2019, I was, I was saying, and other people were saying that 2020 is the year of perfect vision. It's the year of clarity. No one thought that when, when co. When Kobe died, when Corona happened, right? 2020 is a disaster. Can it be 2021 yet? But this is the time it's perfect for clearing out the mess, the distraction, and finding out what you want, getting clarity on your life, whether it be your intimate life, your career life, if you lost your job, maybe it's a time for you to reevaluate. What do I want in my career? What do I want in my family, my friendships? This is 2020 is the perfect timing to getting clarity. It may not be the way we wanted it to be. You know, I would assume that in the church you would say, you know, sometimes, you know, God may not give you what you want, but it gives you what you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I come when you want him, but he's right on time.

There you go. You know what I'm saying? It's like, so, yeah, no, I love.

I love what you just said, man. That's deep. I hadn't thought about it that way. That this, that I've said 2020 is the year of perfect vision, but I hadn't thought about like, wow, we're seeing things more clearly than we probably ever have because we've had to stop.

Had to stop.

That's the thing. We've had to stop. That's what's been so amazing. Everyone has had to just stop for a minute and think and look and observe. And that right there clarifies a whole lot.

Devon, man, I appreciate your friendship, your wisdom, your spiritual truths. I'm so grateful that you took the time to come on and serve this community and share this message. So many great tools. So thank you again, man. I can't wait to see you and give you a big hug. Hopefully within a year, if this thing passes sometime soon.

I look forward to it.

I appreciate it.

Better pass in a year, I hope.

Thanks, man.

My brother, thank you as always.

If you're looking to take your relationships to the next level, then make sure to check out this next video right here.

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