The Warning Signs That Love Is TOXIC! - How To Find REAL LOVE | Jay Shetty & Lewis Howes

I'm curious, what is the difference between toxic love and conscious love? Because I feel like a lot of people get into relationships based on a wound and it causes, you know, toxic chemicals that might feel like love, but then they unwind after six months, a year, two years, and it feels like then it's not conscious love, that they got into it from a chemical romance.

Yeah, wounded.

As opposed to conscious healing, integrating that into a relationship. What is the difference between toxic love and conscious love?

Toxic love is where both people are working independently to use the relationship to serve their own needs. That's toxic love. And conscious love is where both people independently take care of themselves so they can bring their best self to each other. And where this often goes wrong is that toxic love turns into a competition. Toxic love now is who's doing more for each other, who gives more love to each other, who does more work around the house. You turn the whole thing into a competition, but which is not teamwork. And conscious love is not saying you're the selfless one. It's you're making agreements. I think that's the mistake that love was constantly. Conscious love was always like, be selfless. Love more than the other person, give more. That's not healthy either. What's healthy is we're actually going to create boundaries. We're actually going to create agreements. We're actually going to create principles, we're going to create rules. The reason why I called the book Eight Rules of Love is my hope that it will inspire other couples to create their own list of rules in their own relationship. A conscious relationship is one that is built on a foundation of healthy agreements.

Yes.

Toxic love is. It's interesting when you look at the word toxic as well.

Tell me.

So toxic love is when your trauma is the oxygen for your relationship. Right. If you think about the word, like the idea that your trauma is what you're breathing into the relationship. Right. You're just breathing your trauma into the relationship. So you bring all your baggage, all your insecurities, and you're somehow expecting the other person to inhale it all and then figure out how to respond and react. Whereas a conscious relationship is saying that I have these things, I'm trying to heal them. I'm going to make my partner aware of what I'm healing because I'm not fully healed.

Yes.

Now that they're aware and I'm working on it, we can also work on it together. So I think we've also had this unhealthy idea of conscious love being you're Fully healed, and then you come slide. That's not true. It's a journey. And so. But the thing about the journey is, are you working on yourself? Have you communicated to your partner what you're working on so that they can be aware? And thirdly, have you found a way to get support? I had a friend who's partner was addicted to porn, and they came up to me and they were saying that their partner feels shameful and guilty and wants to work on it. And I said, you have two choices. You can either leave them because you don't believe them and this affects you negatively, which it was. Or you can stay with them and support them through their journey because they want to change. It's not that you're forcing them honestly.

About it, they're coming to you about it.

Exactly. They're vulnerable, they're open about it, they're honest about it. And what I found in that scenario was that that person was able to support their partner. Now they have a really healthy relationship. But the thing is that we can't also. A toxic relationship is also when you use someone's trauma against them. So someone's been vulnerable with you about what they're struggling with, and now you use it as ammunition in an argument to shoot them down.

Yeah.

And so when people are vulnerable with you and they're honest with you and they're transparent with you, they don't use that against them because basically you're saying to them, don't be honest with me. And I think that's this really interesting thing. We all say, I want someone who's honest. But then when someone says something honest that's uncomfortable, we say, no, no, no, I don't want your honesty, or I don't like that. And I think you push the other person away.

Yes.

And so, yes, if it's really. If they share something that's really not aligned with your values, of course you can leave and move on. But chances are, if they're opening up about a journey they're on, it's worth giving it an opportunity to support them if they're serious about it.

I love your definition of toxic love versus conscious love. And when I was hearing you say this, I was thinking that conscious love is also wanting to take emotional responsibility and accountability for emotions, as opposed to saying, you made me feel this way. You said this. You didn't do this, and it made me explode on you. It's having the emotional responsibility to manage it. And if you aren't good at managing it, saying, I take full accountability And I'm working on that healing journey. And I think that responsibility and accountability adds to the potential growth for conscious love.

I love that. That's such a great point. It's such a great question, too, because you also realize that we have so many flawed views of conscious love, too.

Yes.

And so people always think, like, oh, toxic love, that's the worst. You could actually be doing pseudo conscious love. And that's even worse sometimes.

What does that mean? Like, a spiritual bypass to conscious love. Yeah.

Or like you're practicing it in a really superficial way. Like, it's conscious in the language and the way you talk about it, but you're doing unhealthy things. Like, for example, you could think you're unconscious love, but you can't deal with someone's honesty. You think you're unconscious love, but you don't feel comfortable having uncomfortable conversations. You think, oh, yeah, we just talk about good stuff and everything's possible. And we never.

We never argue.

Yeah, we never argue. And it's like, well, no, it's important to have uncomfortable conversations. And so I find that a lot of couples struggle with having these uncomfortable conversations. We didn't get into fight styles, but we'll get there whenever you want. Because that question was so good. That question was so good. And don't feel I'm saying this as a friend now, like, off camera in the sense of, like, this is so good, bro. Like, this is an interview that I haven't done with anyone because it's not about the book. And we're getting into it. So it's like, don't feel any pressure to go into the, like.

Yes.

The stuff we're talking about is amazing. Yeah. I just reiterate as a. Yeah, it's so good.

So what were you going to say, though? You were saying something.

I was just saying that this superficial idea of conscious love becomes really practiced as a deeper love. So. So, yeah, like, we don't argue, but we avoid having uncomfortable conversations. Everything's always good. But I often go to sleep at night wondering what they're thinking. Right. Like, it. That's not conscious because it looks good. It's conscious because you're constantly working on it. I think we're so scared of accepting that something may need fixing because that means it's broken. But it's not broken. There's just parts to relook at.

Yes. What are the things that most people don't think are harmful to hurting? Loving relationships that are actually the most harm? Not like he cheated or she lied to Me or he's watching porn or whatever that is. Yeah, but what are actually the things that most people think. And that's not really that big a deal.

Yeah.

That actually you do it year after year after year is a big deal breaker in ruining relationships.

Yeah.

Maybe it's a little things. Maybe it's the, you know, whatever might be. Is there.

Yeah, there's a. There's a few things I can think of. I'd say there's four coming to mind right now.

Yeah.

The first one I'd say is the idea of control. I think we're trying to control the other person, but it doesn't look like control, it looks like care. And that's the interesting thing.

It's like. It's like manipulative.

Correct.

Care.

Yeah, exactly. So control in a relationship can often look like care, but deep down you're doing it because you want to control the other person.

Right.

So you want to tell them what to wear. You want to tell them how to spend their money and how to invest it. You want to tell them how to live their life and which friends are good for them and which friends are bad for them. Now, it's different when that's a conversation from them to you and asking for your advice. But the best thing you can do as a coach, a partner, a guide, a friend, is to help someone understand what their goals are. We talk about this all the time. Like, we don't project what I think is a worthy life or a worthy podcast or a worthy home onto what someone else wants because we all have different values. And so I think we do. Controlling means I don't want to understand your values and what you believe in. I'm going to project mine onto you because I think they're superior anyway, and.

I feel more comfortable if that's the case.

And it's very subtle. Like, this is something you have to really monitor. Like, you know, I'll give an example of, like, I've always been driven, or at least I've been driven for a lot of my adult life. And one thing I had to be really careful for when I met Radhi was to not project my ambition and drive onto how she lived and hope.

She does the same.

Correct. Because Radi's this beautiful, abundant, like, sun, energy flowing, and she's in flow, and that's what makes her beautiful. That's what makes her attractive. It's what makes her special to me and to everyone else who knows her. And if I try and contain that and try and direct it towards what I think it should be I could potentially make her lose all of that. And so I've seen my role with Radhi is being more protecting and helping her protect that than exploiting it. And I think it's so easy for us to think, well, I'm driven and I'm ambitious and look what I've done. And so my partner should do that too. And it's like, well, maybe they shouldn't. I remember I was speaking to a client. Actually, no, this was a friend. They weren't a client. I was speaking to a friend and she was saying, oh, you know, my partner, he's lazy. He doesn't work hard, he doesn't have any ambition. And I said, well, if you want someone who has ambition, is driven and works hard, then he's not your guy. That's basically all it's saying. And she was saying, no, no, no. But he's really kind and loving and thoughtful. And I was like, okay, well, which one do you want? And if you want both, go out there and look for it. But chances are that's tough too.

Or he may not. If he's driven, he may not have as much time for you.

That's what it was. And that's what she. That's exactly what she discovered, that she was like, I want someone who's driven and present. And I was like, they can be present in the moment, but they're not going to have as much time available.

Or at least not during their season of being driven.

Correct.

Maybe in 20, 30 years it'll change, but you can expect it to change.

Exactly.

Okay, so that's number one, the idea of control.

Yes. The second one, which again, is subtle, and that's why I love your quality of your question, because it's like, what do we miss? Or what do we not see is comparison.

Yeah.

I think we do it without even knowing. I've heard couples literally say, oh, did you see, like, where they went for their anniversary trip? And there's some passive messaging in there.

That's true.

And you passing it off like you're really happy for this person. But really there's this part of you that's saying, we didn't do that, or I wish we did that, or why don't you think of stuff like that? And I think passive aggression in comparison, comparison will make your partner feel un. Comparison is the number one thing you can do to make your partner feel devalued and unlovable. There is nothing like comparing your partner to another person. Now, some people will say, I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying what someone else is doing.

Yeah, but you're pointing out something that we're not doing.

Exactly.

Makes me feel like I'm not enough.

Exactly. That is. That is the bottom line.

That's it. You do that week after week, year after year. You're like, I'm never enough for this person. What do I need to do? So they start celebrating what we're doing, not what everyone else is doing and.

Exactly. Exactly. And I think that, that comparing is. Is so unhealthy.

Yep.

Okay, two more. I think complaining about your partner to your family and other people, it creates a loop. So if you complain about your partner to your family, then your family is going to check in with you and then you complain again and then they check in with you. Now, I'm not saying you don't talk to your family about your partner and. But there's a difference in saying, hey, we're going through this and we're going to therapy and we're figuring this out versus he's so there. She's so that. They're so that. And I find that that complaining that we do, it also seeps into what we spot in our partner. We're now looking for them to confirm our complaint. So if we just complained about our partner and said, oh, they never do this when we go home and they haven't washed the dishes. Oh, yeah, see, I was right. And now we're double triggered.

Yes.

Rather than talking to them and communicating and saying, hey, when I come home from work and I see this, I'm triggered by X, Y, Z, let's talk about this complaining.

Yep. And that goes back into your. Your third agreement of love. Yeah, I love that.

And the fourth and final one that comes to mind right now is this. This one's really tough because I had a friend who was going through this a lot. Whenever he was making progress in something like, let's say he got a promotion, his partner would say to him, I don't know how they promoted you. I never see you work.

Oh, my God.

It was criticism.

Diminishing them.

Diminishing them. So it's criticism. Yeah, it's like diminishing them about something that they've achieved or missed out on or someone saying, oh, I didn't get that promotion. And you say, well, yeah, I didn't really see you work for it. Right. So there's criticism either way. And I think we do this because we want to be honest with our partners or we want to tell them the Truth, we don't want to lie to them or, or most of the time it's because we're hard on ourselves. We're criticizing ourselves for not achieving what we wanted. And now we project that criticism onto our partner for what they wanted. And criticism ends up making someone feel so far away from you. Like criticism increases distance in a relationship. It pushes someone so far away because you've made them feel unworthy, unwanted, and, and not enough. And again, I'm not saying the opposite is. Praise your partner, tell them really nice things about themselves. But there's a way to communicate about certain challenges they're going through. It's not in the moment saying, hey, I didn't get the job, oh yeah, well, better luck next time. Or oh, it didn't quite work out. And you might say, well, people don't do this. I promise you what I'd love for everyone to do with this, I'm going to set a little challenge. If you're in a relationship, I want you to do an audit or account of how many of these you do every week about your partner. So just do it honestly. Honestly, for the next seven days, if you're in a relationship, think about how often you complain, compare, criticize, or try to control and just keep account. Now you may get through the week and you only do one. That's amazing. I'm really, really happy. But if you're really self aware and you're really questioning yourself, I'd find that even I do a few of these things constantly.

And what's even. I think this is a beautiful audit and probably a lot of people don't even, aren't even aware they're doing it.

That's what it is.

Such a pattern and an unconscious reaction to seeing something.

Yeah.

And even if you don't do it verbally, I would ask yourself to audit it internally.

That's what I'm saying.

Criticizing. Am I comparing without even saying it? Maybe I keep the peace and I don't say what I really think. But are you thinking it?

Yeah. You're scrolling on social media.

Yeah, yeah. Am I comparing? Am I complaining in my mind? I wish he would do this, I wish she would do this. But without saying it. That's still like creating this rumination inside of you. I love that audit. We are, we are here talking about eight rules of love. How to find it, how to keep it, and how to let it go. If you guys haven't got a copy yet, make sure to get 10 copies. Right now. This question is about the greatest skill you think that everyone should learn in order to master love? What is that skill that will allow them to find it, keep it and let it go, but really to master it?

I'd say the number one skill to master love in relationships is to remember that in every relationship there are three relationships. The one you have with yourself, the one your partner has with themselves, and then the one you have with each other.

That's good.

And I think so often we only think about the one we have with each other. We don't realize that so many of the challenges in our relationship are because of our relationship with ourselves and our partner's relationship with themselves. We think, I'm doing everything, but they don't feel better. But that's because they're going through something internally. We think, I'm giving them everything, I'm doing, everything they need, I'm here supporting them. And. But if they've got something going on internally, they can't even receive any of that. And so often we look at it through the lens of it's just me and them. That's just not true. And so you have to remember that there was a you before, there was a you during, and there's a you after every relationship, and there's a them before, a them during and a them after every relationship. And when you accept and understand that you can actually solve problems easier because now you have three things to look at rather than just one. So you can start to understand, okay, well, is that their internal thing? Is it my thing? Let's check with them, let's communicate. Let's figure that out before the interview continues.

If you feel like you're not living your most authentic life, not leaning into your purpose, and not living the life that your future self would be extremely proud of, I've written a new book called the Greatness Mindset. And I think you're gonna love this. Through powerful stories, science backed strategies, and step by step guidance, the Greatness mindset will help you overcome all the different challenges in your life. To design the life of your dreams and then turn it into your reality. Make sure to click the link below in the description to get your copy today. Okay, let's get back to this video. You just got to really become a master of human dynamics. It's like understanding human dynamics and all that stuff. Stuff. It's interesting. When I was playing sports, I remember a coach asked us at one point, he said, there's always three teams on the field.

Wow.

Your team, the team you're playing against, and then the refs wow. There's always, like, you know, you're never just playing against the team. You got to be aware of how the refs are calling the game, how to influence the game in certain ways, you know, how to show up differently. But there's. It's never just you versus someone else or you with someone else. It's always like your interpretation to yourself, their interpretation outside of. There's always so much else going on. But I think, yeah, that skill of understanding there's three relationships in one and navigating those, I really think of that as, like, just learning how to master emotions, you know, learning how to be the master of your emotions, understand someone else's emotions and the emotion that you're creating together. Speaking of creating together, you mentioned this a little bit before about conscious love having agreements, principles, boundaries and rules, which I think is a great thing. Most people don't have that. They just have assumptions and expectations that goes more into toxic love.

Yeah.

A friend of mine, Ryan Holmes, told me this years ago when he got married. I was like, what has made this, like, a healthy relationship for you? He was like, you know, we created a. What did he call it? Like a family vision. We created. We actually sat down and we created like a family crest, like a sign, a symbol of what we wanted to mold together to build our family. Something like they used to do in England, like, 500 years ago. It's like he said, doing that allowed us to get clear on our principles, what we wanted to really step into, how we wanted to serve each other and our communities, our families, and the world. And I thought, that's cool. Is there anything that you have around building kind of like a relationship motto, you know, crest Vision? Is there anything you talk about around that?

Yeah, I talk a lot about how there's. There's three things. You've got liking someone's personality, you've got respecting their values, and then you've got a commitment towards helping them get to their goals. Right. So that's my definition of love. My definition of love is when you like someone's personality, when you respect their values and you're committed to helping them towards their goals, which means you have to know what your values are and theirs, and you have to know what your goals are and theirs. And someone asked me the other day, they're about to get married, and they said, jay, what's your advice? And I said, do you know your partner's top three values? And they struggled.

I think so, yeah.

And they were friends and family. Yeah, exactly. They're Very, very broad things. And I was like, well, what does that mean? Like, what's the hierarchy? Like, what's the order? And then I said, well, do you know your partner's goals for the next 12 months? And they struggled again. They were like, oh, I don't know, like, they're just settling into a new job. And I was thinking, if you don't know who your partner is and where they're going, then how are you meant to be their partner? And so to me, check ins about these three things.

That's good.

Regularly and consistently give you a full vision of who your partner is and where they're headed.

That's so good. Liking their personality is what you said first, Right. If you don't like someone's personality, you're going to spend 10,000 meals with them, you better enjoy their personality.

Exactly. And that's the study that shows that to make some. And me and you are great friends because of this, by this definition, too. And I've really thought about this. So to make someone a casual friend, you should have spent 40 hours with them. 40 hours for a casual friend. If you consider someone a good friend, you should. You have to spend 100 hours with them. And if you consider someone a great friend, you should have spent 200 hours with them. We've definitely spent more than 200 hours together. But that's the question I would ask when you say, like, their personality, can you spend 200 present hours together? Not just 200 hours watching TV or other movies, present hours.

That's the, like, no distractions. With no distractions, you and the other person. You know, I heard this, I think it was a year ago about, like, you're going to spend 10,000 meals with someone and with them forever. You know, can you sit across the table and have 10,000 meals and enjoy the meals for the most part. So I love this. Liking personality, respecting values. I think with Martha, I got so clear on my values and communicating it effectively. And she asked me early on, I've told you this before. She asked me early on the what are your priorities, Louis question. I don't know, maybe a month into dating, like, what are your real priorities? Right. That like, every man fears answering. And I said, ooh, do I step into courage here or do I shy back to keep it comfortable and not stir the boat? And I remember saying, well, I want to be very honest and authentic with you, but I don't know if you're going to like it, and I don't know if you're going to want to hang out in this way anymore.

Yeah.

She was thinking that I'm going to say something like, horrible. And I was like, do you want me to be fully honest? And she looked at me and said, yes. I said, are you sure? Because I've been honest in the past and people don't like it.

Yeah.

Are you sure? And she said, yes. Take a deep breath. I'm like, okay, I got to have this courage. Because I just know that I thought that she wouldn't like what I was about to say. I said, okay, Here are my three main values in order in life. Number one is I value my health, and that needs to be, like, my top priority. Because if I'm sick, I can't do really anything. So I need to take care of health first. And you need to support me in making sure that I use my energy to do that on a consistent basis. You can't pull me away from my health or healthy activities or make me feel bad for going to the gym or whatever it is. Number one. Number two. Priority. Number two is my purpose, my mission, like in the season of life, the mission that I have right now. And that's being all in focused on that and not feeling bad about it, not taking time away from it, you know, not being resentful of it, any of those things. That's priority number two. And I was like, no woman wants to hear from their man or potential man that they're not their number one or number two priority. And I said, then number three would be my relationship. You know, if we're going to end up dating together, it would be us.

Yeah.

And I said, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be like, I would never have time for you.

Yeah. I'm not going to choose the gym.

Over here, but I need to make sure those first two priorities are set in stone so that I can actually give to you more so that I can be more present with you, so I can give you fully, abundantly, and we can do all the things you want to do. You're going to feel like number one, but you need to know that number one and two, I have to do these first.

So good.

And you will feel like the most important person in the world.

Yeah.

But if I don't feel healthy, if I'm being pulled away from my purpose and my mission, I'm not going to be good for you.

So good.

And she looked at me, she goes, this is amazing.

And she goes, I can imagine.

It's amazing. I love this. And I go, really? Because I'm thinking, like I've experienced and I've heard other people experience that if you're not making your woman your number one priority.

Yeah.

If you don't put me first over everything, then it's like a stressful experience. And for me, that goes back into toxic love. And it's not about, you aren't my top priority. It's prioritizing health and purpose and service, whether you want to call it the same level or just above it so that you have the energy to be present to your relationship. At least that's for me, what I feel like a man needs to be in their relationship. They're all. They got to be on purpose. Right. And she told me, I love it because I've never been with a man who had a purpose. They always made me their purpose. And after a while, it doesn't feel good. You're like, go out and do the thing you want to do in life. Like, I don't care if you want to, you know, serve two people a day, but go do something that you're excited about, not just make it about me. Yeah. And so give me your thoughts on this, you know, this, this idea or this philosophy. If you think that's in alignment with your Eight Rules of Love, or if you think that's I'm crazy and I got. I just got a lucky one who just accepts me for that.

I love it. So it's really interesting you say you did that because inside my book Eight Rules of Love, I actually talk about how I gave a client that same exercise. So I asked them to rank their top three priorities in order. And I was coaching the couple. So the man wrote you the kids me. And she wrote me the kids, you.

It's so funny.

He was so upset. Like, he was.

Go ahead. No, go ahead. This is funny because I want to unpack this because I went to Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisper, and I took my team to do like a full day leadership training, which you got to take your team one day.

So cool. And he was scared. Caesar's going to give me a dog. That's why I don't go.

I know, right?

So scared.

And he. And he talks about the dynamics, at least in America, of married couples, where if you. If he asked most women what's the priorities in the relationship, it's. It's like mom, kids, dog, then the husband. This is what he says. A lot of women say it's like the husband is last because they get this unconditional love from the dog. But that's after the kids.

Oh, my gosh.

And then husband. And he's like, we've got it all backwards.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, we need to be the parents, need to be leading the pack.

Yes.

Together, side by side.

Yes.

Right. So anyways, I don't want to.

No, no, no, I love that. That's a beautiful point.

Yeah. So. So you said he had one thing, which was her, the kids, himself, and she had herself. The kids and then the man.

Exactly, exactly.

So what happened from that dynamic and what happens when you enter or in a relationship like that?

Well, he was distraught and he was really upset because he was just like, how can I be third on your list? And even more than that, he was actually upset that she put herself first. That's what he was more upset about. He actually wasn't that upset about being third. He was more upset about, how are you first for yourself?

How is it not the kids or the kids?

How is it not the kids? And her response was similar to yours, that I want to be present, energized, and my best for you and the kids. I don't want to give my leftovers to you and the kids. And I often say this to people, like, if someone is emotionally and energetically dead, how can they keep you alive? It doesn't make any sense. And so what we have to understand is someone's not being selfish by focusing on themselves if they're doing it with a selfless spirit. That's the key.

Yes.

So you may meet a man who's not like Louis and says, yeah, I'm first. For me, I'm first. And they're only doing that because they think they're first. There's no, I'm going to take care of myself so I can be better for you. Yes, that's the spirit you're looking for. So you're looking for someone who's selfish with a selfless spirit, not just someone who's selfish. And there's a difference. And it could sound like the same thing. It could even look like the same thing. You could meet someone who says, I'm dedicated to my purpose, I'm dedicated to who I am, but it's not anything to do with you. And I think that's the difference. People who prioritize self care in order to serve. That's the self care we want in our lives. And so that's what I encourage in people, that you should always take care of yourself so you can take care of your partner, so you can take care of your kids. You're not just Taking care of yourself, just like it has to go somewhere.

And being lazy about everything else.

Exactly.

Speaking of priorities, I'm curious your thoughts on what is more triggering and harder to talk about in intimacy which will lead to marriage? Is it around money or how to raise kids, or are they kind of equal in there? Triggering?

No, I. I'd actually say that this is such a great question. I'd actually say that more of our trauma, because this is what's interesting, right? The honest answer is it depends on what your trauma is. But most people's trauma comes out more strongly in how to raise kids because now it goes back to how they were raised and what they got, what.

They didn't get, how you were treated and.

Exactly. So I'd say that raising kids becomes a really tension filled point for couples because both either think the way they were raised was great or both had bad experiences and now they're repeating them with the kids or a mix of both. And so I find that kids are also triggering because now you're getting to see who they love and who they respond to, who they listen to, who they like, who they connect with. Now, of course, kids don't have favorites, especially when they're young, they don't even know. But there definitely is that feeling from an insecure parent that, oh, I do this all for them and they just want to hang out with you or you get the fun side of the kids and I have to deal with the stress. And I'm not saying none of that's true. I'm just saying that I think raising kids triggers the most amount of trauma. So. And I've seen that it's. And it's, and it's natural because you are now looking at that kid with the lens of what did I not get at that age? And I want to give it to these kids. And even though that's a beautiful intention, it may not be ideal because you may overcompensate, you may struggle. And what I've realized generally is that with any of this, we're all going to make mistakes, we're all going to get things wrong. But I think with our kids, we want to be perfect and we want to get it perfect because we love them and we don't want to mess something up. And often it's that recognizing that loving them is more important than perfecting everything around them. And I feel that way with my parents. Like I feel my mom loved me so deeply and truly that despite all the imperfection of my upbringing, her love is what lives inside of me. And that is something that no one's ever going to forget. Whereas sometimes you can set up the perfect environment around the kids, but if you don't fuel it with love, if you don't fill it with the oxygen of love, they're not going to grow up with that or remember that.

It's interesting. I heard, I heard. I'm pretty sure it was Wendy Suzuki on the podcast. She said that, you know, her parents never really said she. They loved her. Right. And it was very hard to have that conversation. She said she wanted to tell her dad and she wanted to have that conversation and start talking about it more and just say, hey, I know we don't do this as family, but I want to say I love you, and if I get it back, it'd be great. But, you know, you could set your kids up with, like, giving them the best coaches and teachers and training and schooling to want them to be successful. But I think what I. I took from her was like, she just wanted to hear that she was loved.

Yeah.

Not. Yes, set up the perfect environment for me to flourish. That's great. But as kids, like you said, we want to be heard, seen, and accepted, which essentially allows us to feel loved. And I think when we can learn to do that, which is hard if we never got that ourselves, so it's hard to unlearn it and do the uncomfortable. But if we can do that in our intimacy and our relationships and with our. In our family, it will help us feel a deeper sense of peace and love, which is what we're always looking for.

Absolutely, man. Well said. Well said. That's beautiful. That sounds like a great interview, too.

I'm curious about. I'm always a guinea pig on this show. I'm always like, you know, revealing stuff and opening up about stuff and sharing. This is how I made mistake and this is what I'm learning.

Yeah.

As your friend, I'm curious. And you can be as honest as you want to be. What feedback would you give on love for me? That. And you don't have to like, you know, build me up or anything, but what feedback? Real feedback, honest feedback that you've seen and I know you talk to me all this time about this that you see as possible for me to step into that maybe I'm doing, but need to do more of or that I struggling with that you see from a perspective you haven't told me yet. What is that feedback you would give me so that I can be vulnerable and work on it in this process?

So I'm going to build you up because it's true. And I have to, I have to because it's, it's true. Like, I don't think I've seen many people do. The amount of self work you've done over the last few years, the amount of energy, time, money you've invested in working on yourself, it's unbelievable. And you're seeing the results because of it. Right? Like, that's the most beautiful part that you've always worked on yourself. So that's not new. But I know that love has been like a real investment and healing for you and I just don't ever want anyone to think that. Oh, because you have a good podcast and because you write amazing books, shout out to the greatness mindset. Like, you know, like, just, just because you're doing that stuff, that's not why you have love. Like, you don't have a good relationship because you're Lewis Howes. Does that make sense? Like, I think often externally it could look like, yeah, Lewis is good looking and he played sport and he's an athlete and he did this and he did that. And that's why it's like, well, that's not what's made you a good partner or that's not what's made you a healthy partner. It's the work you're doing behind the scenes that you obviously share on the show, but the work that I get to see you do as a friend. So I do want to say that because I think it's important to notice and acknowledge that.

Thank you.

But if I had to give any feedback or thoughts, let me think where I want to go.

And also like, you know, knowing you're taking the relationship to the next steps and what, you know, being married and what that looks like and what I'm going to be preparing for in the future and how to make sure what to look out for for myself, that it could be a trouble for me or something.

I do think I start the book with this beautiful conversation between a student and the Buddha. And the student asks, what's the difference between I like you and I love you? And the Buddha replies, when you like a flower, you simply pluck it. But when you love a flower, you water it daily. And so my honest advice, and this isn't just for you, it's truly advice for all of us, including me sitting right in front of you giving all of this advice, is, are you watering your relationship daily? Are you checking the soil? Are you giving it sunlight? Are you aware, I think so many of us get a beautiful tree, a beautiful plant in our lives, and then you think it's just going to survive. And so all the work that you've done now, even though it's tiring, exhausting, and transformative, that never stops. And I see that in my life today. I've been with Radhi for 10 years, and I would say that we still have to water the relationship, check the soil, check the sunlight. And I don't think that it ever changes. The stuff you're checking changes, but the checking process doesn't change.

So you can't just set it and forget it.

You can't. That's exactly it.

You can't do a lot of work in the first couple years and then say, I can ride this for 20.

That's exactly the problem. I think we. We think that two years of work results in 20 years of fruit. And it doesn't. It doesn't. Like, if you look at the harvest, if you look at the seasons, it's a yearly thing. It's an annual thing that happens. And so I just. I really, really feel that. And I would often also say that, you know, look out, using the garden analogy, like, look out for the weeds and make sure you're constantly planting new good seeds. I think we also think we've thought about all the good seeds we don't need anymore. We don't need to think about anything new. And we keep trying to recreate our first date or we live in the same way or the way we had. It was amazing. And we keep celebrating how it is rather than recreating what it needs to be. And so I think that's really important. But that's not just about you. It's. It's more of a warning to myself, to you, to everyone, because I think amazing relationships can go stale really quickly.

Yes.

Because we become complacent. And complacency, it's always like. We always hear that phrase, curiosity killed the cat. And I'm like, complacency did. If you're curious with your partner, you'll keep growing. And so use curiosity.

I love that. Okay, I've got. I think I have two final questions before I get to them. I want people to get the book Eight rules of love. How to find it, how to keep it, how to let it go. Make sure you get a copy. Get a copy for your friend, your partner, your family who's struggling in relationships, or people that want to just keep them growing by being more curious. We'll have it all linked up. In the show notes on YouTube, on audio. So again, make sure you guys get this. Follow Jay's podcast and subscribe there. We do a lot of fun stuff together over there, so make sure to check that out as well. Your first book as well is amazing, so make sure you guys get. Think like a monk. His book is sold, I think, what, two million copies now or.

Yeah, two and a half, nine million.

Two and a half million copies. Make sure to get that again on purpose. One of the top podcasts in the world. And if you want a great speaker at your event, make sure to hire Jay. He's one of the best speakers out there. So again, get the book, subscribe, do all those things. Two final questions. I've asked you questions about your three truths before, so I'm not going to ask that. I've asked you about your definition of greatness and people can go back and listen to those episodes if they want to. This is a question because you have a prompt in here about writing a love letter to yourself. So if you had to give a love letter or a love audio note to your younger self, the part of yourself, the time when you felt the most shame, you don't have to say what was happening, but the time you felt the most shame, what would that audio note be to younger Jay of that season of life, a love letter to him.

Don't try to fall in love like they do in the movies. Don't try and fall in love like they do in the songs. Don't try to fall in love in some big romantic, Hollywood idyllic way. Ask yourself, do you know who you are? Do you know who they are? Every time you ask yourself, do they like me? Ask yourself, do I really like them? Every time you ask yourself, do they think I'm attractive? Ask yourself, am I working on myself? Every time you think, do they want me? Will they take care of me? Ask yourself, how can I better take care of myself? And so everything you want from someone else, give it to yourself first. That's what I'd say.

Yeah. That's a good love letter. It's a good love note. Okay, final question. So imagine this goes back to our Matthew McConaughey scenario.

Oh, yeah.

Imagine your 90 year old self.

Yeah. Yeah.

Giving a love letter or love note to your current self, what would your 90 year old self say to current Jeff to support you for the next season of love? After 10 years of being in a relationship and I think seven years of marriage, what would you say for the next 10, 20, 30 years after it's.

All said and done. The love you have for humanity and the love you have to serve and to use your purpose in helping other people, that's the only thing that will stand the test of time. And that your life will be measured not by awards or trophies or numbers, but by how deeply you helped people love themselves. And I think that's a really interesting nuance that we're often focused on how much we love people. But if you really love someone, you can make them fall in love with themselves. And so I would measure myself not by how much I loved, but by how much I was able to help people love themselves, because that would be proof that I really love them.

8 Rules of Love Jay Shetty Love you, brother. Appreciate it, man.

Best interview.

If you enjoyed that interview, then I know you'll love what we have coming up right now. Both of us probably growing up had these limits around people who had money and thinking, are they good or bad people? Are they controlling? Are they mean to people? You know, if you have money, can you be a good person or have some spiritualness to you or, or is it only one or the other? You can either be Mother Teresa and serve, you know, you can only be Jesus and wash people's feet and be, you know, humble or you're this money hungry individual.

Right? Yeah. And I think that when I was growing up, at least I grew up in an environment where the people around me believed that if someone was wealthy or someone was rich, that they must have done something dodgy or, or bad.

To get there, like illegal or sketchy or.

Yeah, it must be. Yeah, sketchy or illegal activities or they must have stabbed someone in the back or they must have hurt someone or they must be taking advantage of someone or manipulating someone.

Using abusing.

Using abusing. That's the only way they could have got there, really.

Yeah.

And generally the idea that we all know of that money is the root of all evil, I think that was something that I was exposed to a lot as a child where a lot of people around me believed that. And we weren't wealthy, so we weren't in a position of financial strength. And often my extended family and others would look to people with wealth and if we would admire that or see something, they would be quick to like, dampen that and be like, no, no, no, no, no. They just do all this kind of stuff. And so I think there was always that negative view towards people who are rich.

How do we get to a place of should we admire people that are wealthy? Should we? Should we look to that and say it's really cool what they've built. Should we admire the accomplishment of amassing a ton of wealth, or should we. Or is that not something to admire?

You always ask the best questions, man.

This is like, you know what I mean?

It's such a great.

Do you admire the results or do you admire the person they've become on the journey of accomplishing the result and how they. The actions they had in order to get there?

So this is my interview, Lewis, so I'm gonna make you answer that question first. I want to hear your. I know what I want to say.

Well, I think this is interesting because I was gonna ask you about. No, I was gonna have a conversation about how you first, because I remember having this conversation years ago with you where you never thought that, like, making money was for you. You were just like struggling in New York City, trying to make it and kind of live like month by month, in a sense. And you told me you kind of had this limit around can I be spiritual and make a lot of money? Can I serve the world, make wisdom go viral? And also, is it okay to receive money? Is it okay to charge what I'm worth or charge more for my services? So I remember having this conversation with you and I was like, I vaguely remember what I said. I said, I think you're doing a disservice to yourself by not generating more to be able to then hire more people to scale this message beyond, so you're not putting all the weight on your shoulders to be able to invest in more nutrition and food and comfortable sleeping space for yourself, all that stuff, so you can serve at a greater level. And so I think I'm answering the question. Whereas, like, I think if you're doing your life and you're being in service and being the best, you can be as kind as possible to people on that journey, then I think it's both admirable and it's cool to see what you could create financially as well with the impact you're creating in the world. But it's all about how you show up on the day to day, how you treat people in the journey of amassing the wealth. I think that. But if you've generated a lot of money, but you've been a jerk or you haven't been in service except for to yourself only, then that's not something to admire as a whole man perspective, I think. Yeah, that's my thought.

I think that's beautiful. I love that. And I remember that conversation as well. And I want to go back to that question you asked, because it's such a. It's such a powerful question that should we admire people who are wealthy? And I think we have to be careful about what we admire, because what you admire will be what your actions aspire towards.

So you'll start taking on those actions.

Correct. You'll start taking actions and behaviors and. And decisions towards what you admire. And so I would say that I've always admired people who had a purpose. That's what I admire deeply. When I meet someone, I'd say there's two things that I admire, purpose and humility. Like, if I meet someone who has purpose, they're willing to sacrifice, they're willing to do whatever it takes. They are mission driven, they want to serve the world. It's why I was always a fan of yours from before we even met and we knew each other, because I was like, oh, here's a person who really wants to do good in the world. Here's a person who really wants to give. And so I think that's the first thing I look for. And then the second thing I deeply admire is someone who has humility, someone who I feel that they were really doing it from the goodness of their heart. So I think for me, my admiration has always been for those two things. And I don't think I can tell someone whether what they admire is right or wrong. But I would say that if you admire something, your actions are going to start dictating your journey in that direction.

Right.

And so you have to be careful what you admire, because that's what you're going to chase.

Right.

And so I would say that I like admiring purpose and humility because I think they are worthy of a pursuit.

Sure. Who are some people that we could think about, you know, who have a mass. A lot of money, but also we feel like our purpose driven and in service to whatever their gift is. Who are some people that we can think about? Yeah, I, I wasn't thinking about this beforehand, but I'm just curious about who is living that lifestyle right now.

Yeah, that's. And that's a tough question. And, and I think, I mean, I'd say we know. We know a few people in our own world, I think people that I've. I've always admired and looked up to. Anyone from, like, I'd say that's a hard question. There are people that are coming to my mind right now, but I'd probably say that I think Oprah's work's been phenomenal. Like the conversation she's had that have shifted culture or shifted humanity on her.

TV show, because she's brought in an entertainment, you know, TV show, but brought in the elements of healing, of prayer, of meditation, of spirituality, of. Of, you know, creating consciousness in the planet, which I think is powerful. So she's bringing purpose to entertainment.

Yeah.

And she's built a massive empire financially. Been rewarded for that service.

Exactly, exactly. And I think that's a great thing. I think that's the reason why I find this question so interesting. Because if we're saying that spiritual people can't be rich, that means that spiritual people have to be poor. That means all the people that are rich are not spiritual.

Right.

Is that the world we want to live in? Do we want to live in a world where the wealthiest people or the most. Externally people who have the most resources are people who don't have spiritual intention? I don't know if that's the world I want my kids to grow up in or the world that I want to live in. I would rather grow up in a world where the most influential people had a deep spiritual intention.

Yes. And with that spiritual intention, they were. They, I guess, were rewarded financially for their level of impact and service. The challenge, the interesting thing is if you have that much humility and you have that much spiritual intention towards your life and service, does the money matter?

Yeah.

Does it. Does it matter as much, like, the more you earn? And does it really impact the individual's life if they have a million dollars or $100 million? That's the interesting thing also.

Yeah. I mean, I'm interested in hearing your point because the perspective you gave to me a few years ago when you brought up that point, like, I remember having like hundreds of millions of views and no money and four months away from being broke.

I remember this. Man, it's crazy to me to think that.

Yeah. And it was really true. Like, I would sit in meetings and people would be like, how many views have you had now? And I would share that. And I was getting all this incredible feedback. And then I didn't have any money, and I was literally going to be broke in four months. And what I realized was that that was negatively impacting the amount of impact I could have sustainably long term. And it's what you said to me, that what if you're making money, but then you're investing that in your team? What if you're expanding and creating more opportunity? Like today, where we have teams across the world? You have your team here. I have My teams who are also living their purpose.

Yes.

And we can only employ them because there's growth in this regard, and then they're getting to have a deeper impact. So to me, it depends on what scale of impact you want to have.

Yeah. And I think also spirituality for me is harmony. It's having peace and inner peace. And if you're financially stuck or you're financially struggling or you feel trapped in financial debt and confusion of financial aspect of your life, then I feel like that's holding you back from your spiritual progress. So it's figuring out how to have harmony and balance in these areas of your life and your relationships and your health and your finances. For me, it's so key. And going deeper spiritually in all of those. So they're all abundant.

Yes.

If one is not abundant, then are you maximizing your spiritual capacities of this lifetime?

That's beautiful. That's well put.

And so I think it's. And I think so many of us grew up thinking that money was the root of all evil, or people with money were bad, or this and this. Whatever we. We thought of. But I think it's time to start changing the narrative and saying, okay, I'm going to use money for good, and how can I make a commitment to myself to use some of my money to be in service of other people, not just all for myself or needing the flashy cars or things. We both like nice things. You like fashion and experiences. I love travel and adventure and healthy foods and investing in that. You know, we take care of our health. We have trainers, nutritionists, these things. I think it's important so we have more energy and capacity to. To be of service. So I don't think there's anything wrong personally with making a lot of money or having focus on profit and purpose.

Correct.

But I think you want to have both so you can scale both. There's a lot of people who are so well intended who have big missions but don't know how to make money to serve their mission. And they're doing a disservice to their cause because they haven't figured out the skill of copywriting or enrolling people in fundraising or sales or some skill to bring in revenue to support the cause or the mission. And I think that's where a lot of nonprofits struggle with these years, is they're not thinking. They're not thinking about all these other things they have to do to serve.

Yeah. Yeah.

So.

And I like that because I also want to clarify that for someone who is spiritual or Is conscious or is awake, whatever word you want to use or even is in focused on personal growth or self development. Their goal is not profit. Their goal is their purpose, their mission, their service. But they recognize that this is something that they have to think about and organize around in order to serve the purpose. So I think it's more about what's your top priority. Like, you don't wake up in the morning every day going, how can I make more money today? Like that's not the mindset. You wake up in the morning going, how can we serve more people? How can we have a greater impact? How can we help more people?

Yes.

And you realize that creating a profitable business or income is a part of that purpose. And I think that's the clarity that we need.

Yeah. Our measurement for our company is to serve 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life.

Exactly. It's not to make X amount, it's.

Not to make $100 million a year.

Totally.

But in the, okay, how do we solve this, this mission equation, which is we want to reach 100 million lives weekly. What does that take? Well, most of it is through video right now. Video, through audio content, through social media, through books, through these different ways to scale a message. Right. A different way to scale a message, which takes money, resources and a team to execute on these different challenges in business to reach that mission. And so it's thinking, okay, we need more people to support on the team that's going to take more money. So how do we make the money to hire people to serve the mission? And through the process of figuring out the purpose equation of how to solve that purpose conversation, then you need to figure out money that's tied to it.

Yes. And I also want to make that point that you have to be really vigilant on this path so that you don't buy into your own hype in the sense of you can convince yourself of anything and you could convince yourself that you're serving people and you're doing this and doing that and then you're making loads of money and then you just convince yourself that it's all okay. And so, yes, you have to be more vigilant on this path. I don't think it's fair to say that. Oh, it doesn't matter. It's all good. You've got to check.

What do you mean vigilant on what?

So you have to remain accountable in some way to make sure that you are continuing to do good with the greater facilities and responsibilities as opposed to.

Oh, I just made 5 million this year, 20 million this year. And I'm getting all these accomplishments and awards and recognition. So figuring out how to stay humble and confident, purpose driven and purpose driven at the same time.

At the same time to not get carried away by an opportunity because of that. And so what I'm saying is that I think people often say that, you know, like, the reason why people think you either have to be spiritual or financially successful is because they think, well, if you're going down the spiritual path, money can be a distraction, or if you're going down money, then spirituality will distract you. And that is true. That is real. Like, you can get really materialistic trying to be spiritual.

Sure.

And you can become distracted from your materialism by being spiritual. That is true. But the goal of life is to live in that paradox, like in that middle point of trying to figure it out. So I often say to people, like, I don't consider that we've. And I know we both feel this way. We haven't figured it out. We don't know. We don't know everything about everything. But I'm trying to toggle with that because I believe that the truth is in the middle. The truth isn't in the either or.

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I want to talk about also how we have individually stayed accountable, humble in our growth and our trajectory individually, because there's at one point where I had no followers and one point you had no followers and we had no business. And now both of us have an ascension of audience, of opportunities, of money, of accomplishments, awards, things like that. I'll ask you first, and I'll answer. How have you stop asking questions.

Louis, this is not the school of.

Greatness, but I'm curious how you have managed the rise to financial gain over the last five years and audience gain and recognition gain. How have you, and I'll answer it myself, how have you personally stayed humble in the process of the rise financially?

Well, I mean, yeah, it's. It's like, huh. It's that. That's what I mean by the vigilance. Like, in the sense of you can't ever be complacent about your inner journey. So if at any point you think you're humble, you're automatically not humble if you think you're so.

I need to stop saying that to my girlfriend. I'm so humbled now.

Yeah. It's like if you think you're humble, you're not humble. If you think you've been really grounded, you're not grounded because that automatically cancels out the other. But at the same time, I would say that for me, what, what are my anchors? And I think I look at them as anchors. So my first anchor is impact is always greater than income. There is always more impact you can make. So I know that for me, what I'm trying to do with the work I'm doing is video was an entryway into a journey of transformation. I wanted people to move from videos, to listen to the podcast, to read the book, to come to events, to come to retreats with me in India. Like, I want to help people go as far on their inner journey as they possibly can. That's my personal mission, is if someone just wants to watch a three minute video and it makes them feel better, that's beautiful. But if someone one day wants to come with me to India and live the life I lived and have a deep inward journey, then I want to be able to facilitate that. I'm still building that bridge to people's deeper selves. And so the first thing that always humbles me and grounds me is I've got a lot of work to do. There's so much suffering and pain in the world, there is so much unrest in the world, There is so much trauma in the world. So we've got a long way to go.

Yes.

So all the awards and the views, they give you confidence that you're going in the right direction, but you know, you're far away from the destination. So that's one thing. I think the second thing that really helps me is being around still spending time with my monk teachers who have very different vision as to what is valuable in life.

Yeah. Because they don't care about. They don't care about material possessions or money and none of it.

They don't care. And so they're not impressed by that. And so to be around people who don't admire certain things helps you lose taste for it. It's kind of like when I'm around.

I'm just a man.

Yeah, exactly.

Marcus Aurelius.

Exactly.

Marcus Aurelius. The story is the Marcus Aurelius would walk through, I guess, the, the town and just have someone saying, you're just a man, when everyone was praising his name and kind of bowing to him and saying, you're like this God, right?

Yeah.

And it's having that accountability that you talked about. People in your life that admire you for who you are, not for what you're creating in the world. Right. For just your kindness, your heart, you know, your Humanness, not the. The brand that you have built as an individual. And I think that's so important to have my, My girlfriend Martha, over Christmas, they did it. She's great. Over Christmas, they have this, like, little game that their family does where you pick out, like a word that's going to be your kind of your word of intention for the year. And it's supposed to be the word you need. Like, everyone picks out a word and you hang it in an ornament that goes on like a tree, and then you look at it again the next year and then you're always reminded of this word. And there's different words like confidence and self worth and intention and all these things. And can you guess what my word was? These are random, right? So you don't know what it is. You pick it out and it's random.

Okay, let me think. Love.

That's what we've been talking about, which is humility.

Oh, right. No way.

It's humility.

I don't think you told me that.

Yeah, I haven't. So it's humility. So she picked it out and you read it in front of like, there's like 20 of her family members.

I had no idea about that.

And I was like, humility. They're all like, yes, you need that. I was like, no, you are humble. No, I know, but I was like.

I can say you.

I was like, I feel like I'm pretty humble. But you said that, like, when you're saying you're humble, you need more of it. And I think the thing is, it's always a great reminder, whether you're super humble or not, it's a great reminder because life will bring things to humble you. If you do not consistently stay humble in your life. Yeah, there's injuries, sickness, you know, attacks online or controversy, whatever might come up in the world, and it's going to continue to come up. But as long as you have the accountability and the right people in your corner who call you out on your BS and also celebrate you when you're doing good things as well, I think that's important to have.

I agree. I agree. I think life is a journey designed to disconnect you from your ego and dissolve your ego. If you think about life as that is the journey. And so as much as you willingly hand over of that journey, the less it's being pulled away. And what I mean by that is, and it's what you said, when you really think about any success you have or any impact you've made, there is someone who has helped you get there directly or indirectly. So for you to say, I am self made, it isn't completely true because there was someone indirectly or directly that helped you get there. So if I say that, you know, people appreciate how I communicate ideas today or certain ideas, I have to thank my monk teachers who taught me that wisdom. Or if someone says, hey, Jay, like you're really resilient or you've broken through a lot of challenges, but then you have to respect the people that tried to pull you down and so that.

Gave you the opportunity to overcome adversity. Exactly.

And so either way, there have been people who have helped you get to where you are. And so you can't claim the ego of I did this all myself.

And I think there's also something to be said for humility and receiving acknowledgment from others and to yourself and celebrating what you've also created. I love the acceptance award of Snoop Dogg where he says something like, you know, and I want to thank me.

Yeah, I want to thank me for.

All the late nights, all the early mornings, all the hard work. And I thank me for never giving up on me. And I think there is this over humility sometimes too, where people are like, well, I'll be like, hey, Jay, it was so amazing what you did. And when people say it was nothing, it wasn't me, you know, I get to praise everyone else. I think there's a spiritual way to receive accomplishments and be humble in your thank you, graceful in your thank you, receive it as well, because you are showing up in a big way, 100%. So you can be humble and also gracious in your confidence.

Yes. I think that's a great, great point. And I completely agree with you. I don't think it's. Again, it's never either or. I think that's the point that whenever anyone tries to make it, it's like, should you be humble or should it be confident? It's like be both. Should I be successful or should I be spiritual? It's like be both. Like, you can be both and we need to be both because sometimes you are going to need to. I agree. Like when, when you reject praise, what happens? Or genuine acknowledgment, what ends up happening is you lose the opportunity for someone else to express gratitude, to give. To give. You've blocked that ability for them to give.

You're robbing someone's gift.

Yes.

And that's a no, no, no. We'll talk about a whole nother session on the law of attraction and the hustle. But there's something to be, you know, and people that make money know how to receive because they receive money. And there's a flow also. There's a flow to it. They, they, the ones who are really good don't hoard it. Right. They let it in and they let it out. It's like a cycle. And they're investing it and they're spending on people and they're building things and they don't say, no, I'm not ready for money. Don't give it to me right now. It's the same thing. Like, you don't want to block someone's acknowledgment or praise or opportunities and say, I'm not ready for it.

Yeah.

Like, take it in, receive it, be graceful.

And.

And you can also be humble at the same time.

Yeah. Use it as fuel. Don't let it go to your head. Right, right. But you use it as fuel. So if someone gives you praise, you go, oh, thank you so much. That's amazing. Now I'm going to use that to work harder.

Yeah.

Right. But you're not just using it to go, okay, it's going through my head now. I'm going to feel that you're using as fuel. And so.

And I think that's why it's. Everyone needs someone accountable to them.

Yeah.

Whether that's your partner. I know. Radi, is that for you? Probably. Martha is that way for me, where she will celebrate me, but she also just gives me great feedback if I'm. If she thinks I'm being, you know, over the top on something, which I never tried to be.

But, yeah.

It's just. Even just her. Just her being there is a reminder to stay humble.

Yeah.

You know, even if she doesn't have to say anything, it's just like, okay, I don't need to be boasting anything.

Yeah.

And having someone that you are inspired by in your life, that can be that. Accountability is so key. I think having that community of not everyone that just says you're incredible all the time, but someone who keeps you grounded and also supports your growth.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I fully agree. And it's. It's. For me, the interesting thing, going back to our original question is money and spirituality. Yeah. Like. And going back to. In context of this is if you're proud of something that can be taken away, it will always leave you empty.

So you mean proud of your money.

Correct. If that's all you're proud of, of what you've done. And ultimately, whether you die with it or you lose it before you die, it is going to go somewhere else. It's going to be transferred. Even if that's to your children or to anyone else, then that can be a very scary place to live. It can be a fearful place to live. One of the first questions that always comes to my mind is, how can I be of service today? How can I be in. And this is extended from that first question. How can it be an instrument of love, compassion and kindness? And that's what I count as service in my definition. And so what I would say to anyone listening is define the words yourself, because what service means to you, me may be different to you, right? And so it's important. But for me, it's like, how can I be of service today? And the reason why I love that is we've talked about this before. When you're wired for service, you're set up, right? We talked about in the last podcast, like, service sets you up to feel satisfaction, to build bonds and create connections, and does so much. So being of service is one of the first questions I would ask. The second question I was asked myself is, what do I love about myself? What do I actually love about myself?

That is probably the most powerful question anyone could ask because most people never.

Learn to love themselves totally.

And we always find the things that we don't love about ourselves and we fixate on those things. And that's one of the repeating thoughts in our head that keeps us playing small every day, all the time.

All the time. And we talk a lot about today, self love and self care. But I think, you know, a lot of that starts with self awareness, which we know about self knowledge, but self knowledge creates self trust. And a lot of it's like learning to trust ourselves. And it's like, if I don't know what I love about myself, how am I ever going to trust myself? How am I going to trust that I have my best interest at heart? And so asking yourself, what do you love? And then the third and final question I think I would ask myself is, is who do I want to be, right? Who do I want? Who is the person that I need to be that I can love, that I want to love, that I want to give more love to? Like, what parts of growth are there still available? And there's one thing I want to add which isn't a question, but it's been a really reaffirming or deepening affirmation for me that I keep reminding myself And I think it's helped a lot of people that I've shared it with is literally some days I'll just put my hand on my heart, and I'll just repeat to myself, I'm exactly where I need to be. And it's just such a great reminder. Like, if you literally put your hand on your heart and you just go, I am exactly where I need to be, you stop getting lost in the future, you stop worrying about the past, and you realize that everything you need to learn, everything you read right now to make a change, it's all right now. It's all right here. And so that's one of my favorite things to repeat. It's not a question, but it's more.

Of a mantra saying.

Yeah.

Because I find it so hard for people today who compare themselves to everyone online about not being where they want to be or not having the career or the relationship or the body or whatever, the following or the attention. A lot of people compare themselves to other people in their space. Friends, family, and they don't feel enough. And so when we say to ourselves, I'm exactly where I need to be, does that help us eliminate the feeling of not being enough?

Yeah, absolutely. You're spot on because we're always feeling like we're. We either feel like we're ahead, we feel like, oh, I'm doing better than everyone. I'm kind of like winning the game. Or more often, we feel behind where we feel like, oh, they just got promoted. Oh, they just, you know, they got proposed to, whatever it is. Like, we always feel they have their.

First child or whatever, Their first child.

They bought their first house, whatever it is. And we're always feeling ahead or behind. And so when you say to yourself, I'm exactly where I need to be, you realize you're not ahead or behind. And the problem is, if you always think you're ahead or behind, then you're always comparing yourself to others. Whereas if you're where you need to be, you now just need to get to the next place of where you want to be.

Yeah.

And also, you only get ahead of yourself by first being present with yourself.

I think it's really hard to say that when you're in a challenging place in your life. I'm exactly where I need to be. I'm broke. Broke. My. Yeah, my dog died. My girlfriend broke up with me. Like, it's hard to accept that.

Yeah.

And I've been there. I know you've been there. It's really challenging to say, my life is Perfect right now. When you don't feel that way.

Yeah.

But I think when you can learn to accept timing of life and know that, you know, a mentor of mine. Early on, when I was broke and I was an intern working for free for six months for someone, I was living on my sister's couch, I remember saying I would do walks with him every day. And I was like, man, I could really use some money, like, in my life. I'm just sick of being broke. And he said something I'll never forget. He said, money comes to you when you're ready for it. And I was like, I feel pretty ready right now. Like, I feel like I could have some money.

Yeah.

And I wasn't ready for it mentally, emotionally. My life wasn't set up. I didn't have systems set up in place to really receive the money and be able to do good with it and be able to use it for good in my life and put it to good use. And later when I started to make money, I realized, like, oh, I probably would have blown that money. I would have spent it poorly. I would have made the wrong investments, whatever may be. Yeah, it's hard to hear when things aren't going well, but I think trusting the timing of your life, like, if you would have built your empire seven years ago, you probably wouldn't have been ready for maybe. Maybe you would have been, but you wouldn't have been ready or social media wasn't the right timing for your message to be out there. Is that right?

Yeah. I think that if I wouldn't have gone to monk school, then I think you can become successful but still feel extremely dissatisfied or misuse the success. Yes. And I don't think that that can be blamed on anyone because no one's ever been taught how to deal with failure or success. There's no class on here's how you deal with failure or here's how you deal with success. But the funny thing is those are the two most extreme things that we all experience.

And the things we're most afraid of are failure and success.

And success.

Before we continue this video, make sure to subscribe below and turn on the notification bell right now so you don't miss out on these great videos every single day. So how do we deal with failure? If you could give a mini masterclass right now, what would you suggest to people who are afraid to fail? How to deal with it.

Yeah, I think one of my first things in failure is don't take it more personally than it actually is. And I'll give an example of that. When I was applying to 40 companies that all rejected me before an interview.

Yeah.

All I was getting was an automated response saying, your application will not go any further. I can't take that personally because they didn't meet me in person. They didn't have a interaction with me. They just saw my name. They saw I've been a monk for three years. That resume is useless. I mean, what's your transferable skills like sitting in silence and stillness? Surprise, surprise. No one wants to hire a monk. And so they rejected you. But that's not personal because they didn't meet me in person.

But what if they had meeting you?

Right. So that's the first step. The first step is don't take all. Fear, failure. I'll give an example. Me and you, we reach out to countless guests to be on our podcast.

Who say no all the time.

Who say no all the time. But if I don't hear a no from the guest directly, that's not a no. Like, someone's team can say no, Someone's assistant can say no. Someone's PR team can say no. But until they say no personally, it's not a no.

Okay. But when they do say no, then that's a no.

Yeah. So then let's move.

How do you deal with that type of failure?

Yes. So if I deal with a failure where someone meets me in person and.

Gets the no, no, Jay, you're horrible. You suck. Like, I don't want to deal with a monk ever in my life.

Yeah.

I would never go on your show. I'm never listening to you. Never.

Yeah.

Then how do you deal with that type of.

So I've heard you say this, I've said a couple of times, and I'm sure it's been repeated a bunch of times around how I genuinely believe failure has feedback. And so for me, it's like failure has the ability to actually tell you what you need to improve now. Not to improve, to get their attention. Improving. To get the actions that you want to take.

Yeah. The result you want, the results you want.

And don't make that result about the person who said no, don't try use failure as a way to prove someone else wrong.

Because what happens when we prove others wrong?

When you prove others wrong, you end up trying to get validation and approval for them. And now if they're not impressed when you're right, you lose again. So you end up losing twice.

And you spend all this time and energy, years maybe to prove some wrong. I've Been there many times. And then you're like, I felt good for a moment.

Yeah.

And then I feel empty again.

Totally. And so that's the thing about failure in the second half is you have to see failure as an improvement. If. If I'm completely honest, everyone who rejected me in my life up until now has made me more hungry, taught me so much more about myself, and made me up my game.

Yeah.

And I think if failure doesn't make you up your game, it's the same as losing in a sport. Right. When you fail and you've lost games and you've won games, you know, on the big stages, you didn't have the.

Skills, you didn't have the teamwork. You guys weren't hungry enough. Whatever it is, you know, there's something you were missing.

Yeah.

So you go review the game film, you check the stats, you see, what could I have done better? And you try to improve that for the next game.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of people can do that in life, but we're so afraid to, like, go on the next game of life. Like, I got rejected once, and it hurts so bad.

Yeah.

How do people learn to overcome that pain of rejection?

Yeah.

To keep going. You know, in sports, luckily there's a season which is like, you might have 30 basketball games after you lose the first two, you don't say, I'm just gonna give up the rest of the season. You keep playing.

Yes.

But in life, a lot of people stop playing.

Yeah.

Why?

Yeah. I think that's great mental training, too. I think sports is great mental training because you have to show up to the next game, even if you lost and you don't feel bad.

Exactly.

That you don't feel good. Sorry. And one of the things. Before I dive into that question, one of the things that you reminded me of was that the Last Dance documentary. So there's that season that Michael Jordan, Everyone is agreement, in agreement that he is one of the best players to be playing. And they keep losing.

They didn't make the finals.

Right. They didn't make the finals. They lost. And then they realized they need to get the team and they need to find. I think they bring in Dennis Rodman and then they start bringing in all these other players that strengthened. Whereas if they would have just said, oh, we got the best player in the world, we just keep doing this, I'm not sure they would have got there. Right. But the coach, Phil Jackson, and the team, they had to adapt. And so you're saying, why do we feel that Pain in rejection. And how do we deal with that? I think we feel that pain because we look at a failure, right? We look at it as a complete definition of us, right? We're looking at as. There's that famous statement of, like, you know, failure is an event, not a person. Right? And I don't know who said it, but it's one of those statements that. That really clicks, like, failure is an event, not a person. Whereas we start thinking we are the failure, and we say, I am a failure. Exactly right. Like, I. Those are the words. I am a failure. I got rejected. And it's like, no, your application got rejected. Your efforts, your effort, your specific effort at this moment in time got rejected. Your specific exam at this point got failed. You didn't. You are not a failure. And so you have to disconnect and distance yourself from the event.

You know what's interesting is, like, no one who was successful at everything they did ever told a good story. Like, the greatest stories are the ones who overcame failure and adversity. It's not the ones who are like, everything was easy for me. Everyone loved me. Everyone accepted my actions. I didn't have to work hard. And it just came to me effortlessly. Like, people don't care about that. That's not a good story. That's not an inspirational human being. It's the human that had to deal with adversity that we really admire and we look up to, even if they had some low moments. It's a much better story of hearing about someone's failure than hearing how they succeeded.

Totally. And that's a beautiful lesson that one of the biggest mistakes we make is we don't study the stories of the greats. So how many people's lives have you studied from start to finish? If you've studied someone's life from start to finish, I genuinely believe this is, like, the core skill that's needed. I would say that the people I admire, I've studied their lives from start to finish. I know why they made bad decisions, what they consider to be good decisions. Like, there's autobiographies and biographies out there. There's podcast, like, hours where people come and listen to people's stories. If you've not studied someone's story, then you can't follow that path because every time you hit a rejection. So every time I get rejected, I think of Steve Jobs getting kicked out of his own company.

Crazy, isn't it?

Every time I fail, I think about Michael Jordan losing a game. Every time I get tired of training I think about Cristiano Ronaldo putting in that extra rep. Those are the visual cues that we need. But you only get those visual cues if you've done the research and the study and then you go, oh, if Steve Jobs was kicked out of his own company but then still had the audacity at one point to go and build Pixar, then I think I'm all right if I just didn't get this job.

Yeah. And he would. And Apple wouldn't be where it is today without him getting kicked out, learning the lessons, having humility, like gaining some compassion. All the things that people said he didn't have fully at that time, he learned by having to be kicked out. Start something else, bring a new perspective. What did you call it? The association.

Yeah. Associating. Yeah.

Like he was able to then go somewhere else and spot different trends. And then he came back to Apple and built it to where it is today. Helped build it to where it is today. And he probably. Apple wouldn't be where it is today without him being a rejection.

Which is crazy to just think of that. Yeah, exactly.

So if he would have kept saying, I'm going to keep doing it my way, and this is the way it is, it probably would have had some challenges.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the. The more you study the lives of inspirational people, and that's what I'd say is everyone should pick their top three inspirational people and go and study their life.

The full life.

Their full life. And read the biography, the autobiography, listen to every podcast. I mean, like, seriously, get immersed in that person or the journey in the industry you're trying to make it in. And when you do that, you'll realize that your journey actually doesn't look that different from theirs. It actually probably looks similar.

So how do we go inside our minds and say, okay, I'm getting rejected over and over again. I'm trying really hard. It's not working. How do we still deal with that emotional pain? Is it just the self awareness that every great person had to go through this? And this is just a timing thing, like, how do we eventually just ease that, or should we not try to ease that pain?

I don't think it's about easing it. I think it's about engaging it. You know, it's. And I believe that the engaging does the easing, in my opinion, at least. So what I mean by that is behind that pain is a understanding that I don't have this skill or is an understanding of I didn't try hard enough or is an understanding of, oh, maybe there's just another option. Because guess what, sometimes you may have done the best pitch in the world and you just had an executive that didn't like your vibe. Keep going, keep going. Like you, you know, you've just got to realize that there's one, there's a, there's a. You have to engage that pain in discovery and that eases it. Because when you discover like. Oh, that. Like, for example, let's take my podcast. My podcast producer, the team that was meant to produce my podcast, pulled out two weeks before we launched my podcast. And I thought I had this big deal lined up. I was really excited. I'd never launched a podcast before and I thought, oh, yeah, this can be amazing. And I was in India meditating for my annual trip that I take. I come back and the first news I remember receiving is, by the way, this isn't happening anymore. And I'd said that I was going to launch my podcast on Valentine's Day 2019, and I had my episodes recorded with my wife and I'd already gone out and made the content. So just to tee up, how bad that two week notice was, I. I'd already gone to Monaco, interviewed Novak, I'd already interviewed Lilly, I'd interviewed Russell Brand in London, I'd interviewed my wife. And obviously those people are all close friends and people I know, so they were very happy to be on the podcast, even when it was new. So I'd already done all that effort, I'd already created all the content myself. All this podcast company was going to do is put it out there and help me market it a bit. And then they pull out two weeks before it comes out. And I'm going to myself, wow, okay. Like, I can either sit here and be really sad or I can scrap together and figure it out. And so the only thing I realized was it actually turned out perfectly because now I own my podcast and I'm completely aware of every part of the journey. And it gave me more confidence in myself that I could scrap together when I had to. Yeah, and I think that's what it is, that we lack confidence. We're waiting for someone else to tell us how we should feel about ourself.

And I think if we go back to those three questions you said, like, when you're feeling a failure over and over and over again, or you feel a sense of I'm not enough or whatever it may be, go back to asking those three questions to yourself, how can I be of service today? Or serve today. What can I love about myself? So even when everyone's saying no, what is there to love about me? To remind yourself and not be validated by other people's opinions? And who do I want to be that I can love?

Yes, exactly. Who do I need to become?

Who do I need to become that I can love? And just keep focusing on the process, because the process is the prize.

When people get into narcissistic relationships or antagonistic or toxic relationships, they don't know what they're dealing with or they're replicating cycles from earlier in their life. Right. Or both. And so what happens is, is that if you pivot too quickly, you don't get a chance to sort of.