TRANSFORM Your Mindset to MANIFEST More! (Let Go of THESE Beliefs!) - Erwin McManus

I actually think we stay in negative frequencies because we're afraid. We're afraid that if we actually move toward a positive frequency, we'll become vulnerable or our authenticity will create liabilities for us because now people will see the real us or they'll see the human us, they'll see the vulnerable us. I think it takes incredible courage to.

Step out of your shadow and move into your light. And I think it's true with every.

One of these frequencies.

I think you got to have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really?

Yeah.

Please welcome Lewis Howes. How do we as human beings get to a higher level of frequency in our day to day life, so that we can have a greater impact on our lives, whether it be our career, our family, our health, and our service, how can we get there, and what are the different frequencies available for us?

I love that you're starting Wb it up for you, A I unexpected conversation, but it's a really important one. Yes.. Las year put together a masters class called Art of Communication. and actually out of that, my son Aaron said, Hey dad, could you put together like a 15 minute teaching that we could just give away to people? And I spent the weekend thinking through, okay, what kind of communication process could I give people? And I just went into this deep space where I didn't sleep for three days. If my wife saw me at five in the morning, I was drenched in sweat. And she, looked at me and says, what is wrong with you? What are you doing? And I said, I can't stop downloading this. And I feel like I downloaded a process called the seven frequencies of communication that we ended up releasing. And I basically began to break down human communication on human frequencies. And one of the things that I think is really important is to realize that human beings communicate in frequencies, but they're not always positive frequencies. the same frequency can have a positive and negative expression of it. And when you're listening to different people, there are certain frequencies that you like to hear in, that you hear best in certain frequencies that maybe you are repelled by and you actually shut down. And so a huge part of communication, people think, oh, it's what you're saying or even just how you're saying it. But I don't think it's that. I actually think there's a frequency that we communicate from. And when that frequency resonates with the listener, It creates this internal resonance where the person goes, Yes, this is what I've been searching for. Or, this gives language to what I've always felt. And in fact, when I spoke at your summit, right before I walked on stage, I had my talk kind of mapped out. I don't have an outline when I speak. I don't work from notes, but I work from the universe of thought. And then I pull down from that universe while I'm speaking. Right before I walked on that stage, I had been interacting with people, feeling the essence of your event, and I realized that your event actually has a dominant healer frequency, which I did not expect because it's called the School of Greatness, so I thought it would have a maybe a challenger frequency or what I would call a motivator frequency or a different kind of frequency or even a commander frequency. But what surprised me, Louis, and as I've listened to you more carefully, is I think your dominant frequency of choice is a healer frequency, that your internal intention is to bring healing to people from a place that you've been healed from.

Yes.

Or a place that you're processing healing from. And so your event is a healer event. Yeah. And so right before I walked on that platform, I told myself, start with the healer frequency. which I would say I almost never do.

Really?

Yeah. And I have a deep sense that I moved to a healer frequency throughout my talks, but it's not usually where I start.

Interesting.

And so I've identified seven different frequencies. They're not the only frequencies in the world, but I would say they're the seven dominant or signature frequencies from which we communicate, which I identify as motivator, challenger, commander, Maven Professor Seer Healer.

Okay.

And when you listen to a speaker, one, if you go to Instagram, if you go to social media, I think there's two dominant frequencies. One is the motivator. You can do it. You're awesome, you're worthy, you're great, you know, and then there's the challenger. You know, you owe you, you know, get the job done. Do one more pushup.

Right.

There's more in you than you know. And then there's the third one out there, that's the healer. Your wounds will become your message. And you can almost hear the same message from different frequencies. The motivator saying, Louis, I know that you can do it. And the challenger, Louis, I know that you can do it. Now get up. And then the healer, Louis, you can get past your wounds and you can do it. And each one of them will begin, it's not just the words that are said, it's the frequency from which it's said. And I've began to realize it, even when, you know, I have a fascination with, I have so many friends who are atheists. And one of the things I began to realize is that many of them didn't reject God. They rejected the frequency from which God was communicated.

Ah, the way it was delivered to them, or the messenger was delivered to them.

Because unfortunately, many times, The frequencies that are being used to communicate important truths are the shadow frequency. When I first put together the seven frequencies, I asked people, give me a TV show or a movie, and we'll break down the characters. Overwhelmingly, people wanted friends and secession. I didn't even know friends was still a thing, but it is still a thing.

It's huge, yeah.

It's huge. So I looked at secession because I love secession. and all the characters in it. And I was terrified when I finished. I couldn't find a single one of the seven frequencies. Really? And I thought, oh no, this doesn't work. And then I went back and went back to the pilot, started watching the first three shows and I realized, oh my goodness, every frequency is the shadow frequency.

Of every character.

Of every character.

Oh my gosh.

There isn't a positive frequency. in the entire show. And so instead of the motivator, you have the performer. Instead of the challenger, you have the manipulator. Instead of the commander, you have the dictator. Each time there is a frequency in secession, and all seven frequencies are laid out in that show, but they're always the negative frequency. And I thought, this is a really telling Dynamic because we're learning how to communicate from the shows we watch. We are learning how to communicate from the characters in our favorite films, in our favorite shows, in our favorite series. And that's the frequency that we're actually beginning to resonate with and the frequency we think will bring us success.

It's also just a familiar thing if you're watching something over and over again, even if you don't believe it's the correct way of being, It's hard to just not consume something constantly and be in an environment and not bring in some of that into your life probably. I don't know. It's like you have to really check yourself and set an intention of like, okay, this is entertainment. I'm not going to take on these behaviors and really disassociate from this from my way of being. I don't know.

When I was in my 20s, I realized I had a defense mechanism. When I, whenever I felt in any level of psychological danger or relational danger, I had a cutting, destructive wit. And I was fast and I was cruel.

Cut people down.

I could cut like a stiletto.

Wow.

And the moment someone would start bantering with me, it just, it was like open game. 'Cause if you banter with me, if you cut me down, if you said something negative to me, if you tried to make fun of me or embarrass me in front of people, it just turned on. And it was somewhere in my early 20s where I realized I don't know how to mediate this, so I have to kill it.

Mm-.

Right. You know, 'cause being funny is great. and I love doing stand-up and I love doing comedy, I love being funny, but I realized I had to change the rules for me. And I changed the rules. I would never be funny at the expense of someone else. I would only be funny at my own expense. You affirm and compliment people, you make fun and demean yourself. And I don't mean demeaning in a negative way where you're thinking badly of yourself, but you just become self-effacing. And that shift in my 20s changed my life. because I was able to take that same communication strength and now use it in a way to build and affirm and encourage other people. And I love the fact that now decades later, one of my core values is to be a voice of hope. And years ago, I identified that as one of my singular missions in life was I wanted to be a voice of hope. And I wanted to be a voice of hope to people who were overwhelmed by life, despair, depression, anxiety, stress and or great challenges and just always convince people, help people see that the future is better than their past.

Yeah.

And I think that shift in my early years going, I'm not going to use the negative frequency to make myself look more powerful. I'm going to use my frequency in a positive way to empower other people. Yeah.

Yeah. Why do you think so many people stay in a negative frequency for so long in their life and they're unable to get out of that? lower level frequency.

The first thing that comes to my mind is fear. I actually think we stay in negative frequencies because we're afraid. We're afraid that if we actually move toward a positive frequency, we'll become vulnerable. Or our authenticity will create liabilities for us because now people will see the real us or they'll see the human us or they'll see the vulnerable us. and if you watch like secession and you look at Roman and you look at he's always entertaining, but what he really wants so desperately is to be loved. And with each one of those characters, you realize you get these moments of these glimpses into their brokenness, these glimpses into the humanity, the part of them so desperately wants to be seen and known, healed. and loved, and they can't because they always go back to their default mode. I think it takes incredible courage to step out of your shadow and move into your light. And I think it's true with every one of these frequencies. And the way I would say would be best to identify frequency is when you're communicating and you're thinking about yourself, you're usually working from your negative frequency. When you're communicating and you're thinking about the contribution you can make in the lives of others, you're working from a positive frequency. And ironically, it will shift fear. I just spoke at an event, there were, I think, 7,000 people live, 150,000 people online, and 350,000 that will be registered in the end. And I didn't feel afraid at all. I felt wonderful energy on that platform. And ironically, right before I got on stage, you would think I would say something like, this matters, or, you know, change the world, or your can do it. I said two words to myself, have fun.

That's great.

And because I felt like a huge part of it in that event is that people just needed to know that life can be enjoyed. This is this huge business event. It's all these leadership principles. It's, you know, high management. It's all these CEOs and And there's a certain point where I'm wondering, do you wake up in the morning and love your life? And do you take the time to enjoy taking deep breaths and looking at sunrises and just seeing the beauty of life all around you? And I wanted to get on stage on that platform and just have fun and create a moment where other people could take a deep breath and go, oh, life can be really beautiful. be really good. And the moment you get out of yourself and you're just asking yourself, how do you serve this moment? You know, how do you help the people in this room? You're moving into a positive frequency, which, by the way, is one of the things I just love about you. Yeah, I genuinely, I get to know you outside of this space, you know, and I just know how much you care about people, how much good you want to do in the world and and how important it is for you to make a positive impact on the world while you're alive.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you.

And every time you do that, you're communicating this incredibly powerful frequency to the world that not only affirms other people and encourages them, but it actually puts them in tune with this positive frequency where now they can actually pass it on to other people.

So how do you set others to be more in tune and more in alignment with their highest level of frequency? How can each individual do that for others?

Yeah, without making it sound too simplistic.

I actually think- Simple is good sometimes, you know?

Yeah, I think it's love. Yeah, I think that when you're motivated by love, the frequency moves to its purest light. And when you're motivated by the need to be loved, it can actually become self-indulgent and destructive. But when you are motivated to love, and I know this feels too idealistic, but where you're just genuinely trying to live your life for the good of the other, and that's a high ideal, right? But it's okay, we can aspire toward those, right? And we can all accept the fact that you know, we're broken and fragmented and imperfect and all those other things. But I think the beautiful thing about love is that love can come, I think, from a really beautiful and pure place in your soul.

Yes.

And, you know, so when you communicate, you want to communicate in a way where you're genuinely serving the good of others. My frequency is a frequency that is identified as maven. And the challenge with being a maven is that you're always violating other people's views of reality. And I actually, years ago, somebody asked me, what do you see as your intention? I go, my intention is to violate your view of reality. I was very clear. And I just question everything. I tech. anything that people say is truth. And I break it down and I feel, in a sense, I'm ruthless on my own examination, my own beliefs, my own convictions of my own thoughts. And right before he came here, my daughter goes, Be kind.

You don't have to be kind to me, yeah.

No, I am kind. But she knows that when I'm talking about an idea, you know, I don't see an idea as a person. And I think ideas, you know, beliefs, convictions, and that's what's, I think, unusual about Mosaic. I mean, I believe in God and, you know, obviously I believe in Jesus, but I question that every day and I press it every day and I don't allow myself the space to just go, I just believe because I believe. and I think that's the way I'm designed. But if I move into a negative in that, I can just become an anarchist where I'm just trying to destroy everything and leave nothing standing.

Tear it all down.

And it's like, okay, I can prove everyone is wrong, but there's nothing that's right. So I'm not making the world better. And so you have to really look at that shadow. and go, okay, am I trying to help everyone move toward a better truth, a more beautiful truth? Or am I just trying to prove that everyone's wrong and that I'm wrong too? And even when I was searching for God, I was okay if there was no God. I was on the search and I was like, hey, if there's no God, I'm good with it. I just want to come to some conclusion for myself. not for anyone else in the world. And when I met people who believed in God, I would argue with them that there was no God. And I would find some level of satisfaction destroying their view of God. And when people were atheists and did not believe in God, I would argue for God. And I had to come to this realization of, I do not really care. I just love the argument.

-Sure.

-But I think some of it was, I wanted someone to win the argument. so that I could have some level of peace in my life. I was hoping someone could convince me that there was a God, and or hoping someone would convince me there wasn't a God, so I could just- Stop arguing. Yeah, yeah. Because the argument was really with me.

Right. Interesting.

And I think that's the dilemma of the Maven frequency. But the upside of the Maven frequency is that you're always pressing people toward the new, the unexpected, innovative that, you know, someone asked me about AI the other day because everybody's terrified about artificial intelligence. And they said, do you believe that artificial intelligence will replace all the writers? Because here we are in LA with the writers strike. And I said, look, AI may be able to write the greatest story that's ever been written, but AI will never be able to write the greatest story that has never been written. And that for me is what's exciting, is what has never been written, right? What has never been thought, what has never been created. And ironically, I end up becoming a person who believes in God with an internal universe that's always questioning everything. You can imagine how insane it is in my head, Louis. And, which is why when I wrote the Genius of Jesus, I was asking the question, How is it possible that I believe in Jesus? How is it possible that my whole life revolves around this guy who lived 2,000 years ago? Even that for me, I understand the insanity of it, the craziness of it. And yet, what I can't deny is how radically my life has been revolutionized, how something happened in my inner world where I found inner peace, where now I wanted to live a life of love, where all of a sudden I actually wanted to be a person of humility and virtue and integrity, and not because anybody else wanted me to, or not because anyone was forcing on me. What really shocked me was when I was all alone and I wanted to be the best human being possible, without anyone else's external constraints on my life. That to me is my best proof of God.

That's cool. And speaking of that, wanted to be the best person you can be possible. If we go back to succession.

Yeah.

Is it possible to fully give love to others if you don't know how to fully love yourself?

You know, that's why Jesus said that, you know, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

But if you don't love yourself, you.

Cannot love your neighbor. Right. Yeah. And because we reflect on others what we really feel about ourselves. If you hate yourself, you will treat other people with disdain. But when you love yourself, there's a difference between loving yourself and being in love with yourself. And I think the difference is significant and subtle. A narcissist is in love with themselves. But a healthy human being loves themselves. They know they have value. They know they have worth. And they know that they have the right to be treated with respect and value. And when you know that about yourself, then you know that about every other human being. What happens sometimes, and even in my shift, I talk about how you find who you are. And I've traveled to maybe 70 countries around the world and have met people across this entire planet. And everywhere I go, I find really kind people. I find people who want to do good in the world. I find trustworthy people. But I've talked to people and they go, oh yeah, and I've traveled the world and you can't trust anyone. Everyone's out for themself. Everyone's greedy. And I realized we're both traveling the same world, but we're not meeting the same people because you find who you are.

Wow. Yeah. Or the frequency you're at.

Yeah. And so I think the dynamic here is that When you love yourself, you actually value loving others. When you do not love yourself, you do not value loving others. And so it does begin here, because you need to realize that your self-worth is a reflection of everyone else's self-worth.

-Mm.

-Really? -Yeah.

-So explain that. Say that again and then what does that mean?

-When I was in college at Chapel Hill, I was in the psychology department, and we took all these assessments. And there was this one question that I thought was really interesting. I never forgotten. Of all the assessments I've ever taken, it said, given the right circumstances, any person would steal. And here was my dilemma. I was now a new person of faith, and I was told, you know, everyone's sinful. So I should say yes. everyone would steal given the right circumstances. But something inside of me couldn't say yes. And so now I was dealing with this either theological truth or this human truth. And I can't explain the human truth. It was just what I felt inside of me. And so I answered no. And this is the way I framed it in my mind. Given the right circumstances, every person would steal. No. In the right circumstances, the person wouldn't have to steal. It's only in the wrong circumstances that a person would steal. And this is the reason I point this out is because I believe anyone can change because I've changed. I mean, I watch a lot of shows that say people don't change. And you've probably had people on your show who believe people don't change. I know people can change. And the reason I know people can change is because I've changed. And if I can change, anyone can change. See, what you conclude about yourself is what you'll project on other people. Right. And so if you're not worthy of love, no one's worthy of love. If you're not worthy of forgiveness, no one is worthy of forgiveness. In fact, ironically, if you won't forgive yourself, you will never forgive anyone else.

Wow.

But when you forgive yourself, you are now living in the state of grace. So when you forgive yourself, now you have the capacity to forgive other people. And so ironically, one of the things for me is, I turned 65 this August, and I live in a constant state of grace, because I do not expect myself to be perfect. I have lived long enough now to go, oh, I'm still dysfunctional. You know, I I I'm borderline neurotic and. And Louis, even on a serious level, like, I still struggle with something that would be described, like, night terrors.

Night terrors.

But they're night terrors at a level that I don't even know how to express to you.

Like.

Like nightmares. No, I I have this psychological or neurological condition where I'm awake and asleep at the same time all the time. Wow. And I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm in my nightmares, but I'm wide awake. And unfortunately, I had this one nightmare where I've died like a thousand times.

Holy cow.

And twice in Copenhagen, I fell asleep for like 20 minutes and I was in this nightmare calling my son, telling him, Come, I'm dying. I want to say goodbye. I mean, my family has watched this for years. My wife has watched me walking through the house, in this other state, fighting off death, trying to say goodbye to.

Her and her family. Oh, wow.

And this happened to me again last week. And so it's not like something in my past. This is something I've lived with since probably I was five years old.

Wow.

And you, I can't even fully express the psychological trauma of having died a thousand times. Oh. That's intense. And carrying it and wanting and my poor kids, my son called me at 4:30 in the morning and I was calling him to say goodbye. And so I understand when I'm talking about all these things, I understand the reality of trauma. I understand what it's like to have deep wounds and scars in your soul. My joy in life isn't trauma-less. My love for people and my love for life and my sense of wholeness is not separated from the fact that I have deep scars and deep wounds inside of me. But those scars, even those nightmares, do not define me. I am defined by something much larger than that. And I think it is what allows me to connect to people. So when you know that you have deep scars, you understand other people have deep scars. and you're able to resonate with that, and you're able to empathize with it, and you lack judgment over people's lives. That's why I just, I don't have room for condemnation. Like, I don't have room to judge people because there's so much you could judge me for. And I know that we're all sort of in transition, and we're on the journey toward our wholeness, even while we have found tremendous wholeness. and when you understand that about yourself, you now understand that about everyone else. It just makes you so much more empathetic. Like, I just never have bitterness. It's weird. I don't have resentment over anyone. And in fact, psychologically, if you've hurt me really badly, I almost forgot that it ever happened.

Really?

Someone sent me an email this past week apologizing for something they did. like 10 years ago.

And you forgot about it.

I couldn't remember what they did.

Really?

At all. And they were like so deeply, like sorrowful. And I, you know what I thought.

Were you always that way?

Always.

I mean, you've always been this kind of forgiving and forgetful of the- I.

Think it's the only way I could deal with deep level of pain.

Interesting.

Because I realized that bitterness would corrupt me, would ruin me, would, you know, would shape me in a way I didn't want to become. and my only response to that person is, I'm just so sad you've carried this for 10 years.

Wow.

Because if you've carried this for 10 years and now you're asking for forgiveness, you could have been free of this 10 years ago. Wow.

I had this- and it's almost impossible to be at the highest level frequency when you're holding on to that type of frustration or resentment.

When you're holding on to unforgiveness, you cannot move to your highest frequency.

Wow.

When you're holding on to bitterness or jealousy or anger, you're always going to move toward those lower frequencies. And you can see that in people, even people that you like and enjoy, you can see that their negative frequency is their more natural frequency. They have to fight for that positive frequency. And what they don't realize is that your frequency is coming from your essence. And if you want to express yourself from your most powerful and positive frequencies, you have to forgive. You have to let go of bitterness. You have to let go of things like envy and jealousy.

-Right.

-And really fill yourself with hope and love, with joy, with compassion, kindness.

-So, I mean, there are so many that, so many people you work with or know as friends that I work with or I have had on here who have a high level of, they have a high standard for their life, their career, their business, their their talent, their gift, right?

Their art.

They have a standard. They want it to be great. They want to outperform. They want to overdeliver. And they want to do that consistently over time. Sometimes that can creep into a perfectionism and it wasn't good enough mindset or frequency or energy. How can we continue to develop and grow and innovate and drive beyond our grasp as human beings while also having grace for if we never reach where we want to go?

I think it's a really important question. For a moment, you nuance to people who are in the entertainment industry, like actors. I just want to just focus for one moment there because you look at a great actor like Heath Ledger who played the Joker and took on this really dark negative shadow frequency, which I think actually began to destroy him. from the inside out. Because what he ended up doing is not acting that he was in that frequency, but actually taking on that frequency and translating that on the screen. I think one of the great challenges for great artists is that oftentimes it's that negative frequency that dries a lot of their creative expression. And then they're supposed to move into a positive frequency the moment they're done. and that negative frequency stays with them. But then I want to shift over to your question about pursuing perfectionism and giving yourself grace. I think when you pursue perfectionism, you're pursuing the outcome. I think that's a terrible mistake. And I think that when you pursue the beauty of the process, that's actually when you give yourself grace. I, you know, years ago someone accused me of being a perfectionist and I always think it's interesting, usually people who have very low standards are the ones accusing people of being perfectionists, you know? And I told him, I said, no, the way I knew I'm not a perfectionist is the moment it's done, I'm moving on.

You're not obsessing about the outcome.

No, because once it's done, it's done. And I obsess about the process. And I want the process to be true, and honest and real and excellent. My son, I think, the other day coined this phrase about elegant excellence, which I really love. It's actually was effortless excellence, which is even better. He said, because when you achieve a level of greatness, it looks effortless. What happens is that that person has been so committed to the process that the that the outcome looks effortless. And that's what I wanted to achieve in my life. I just want to love the process. People ask me all the time, how do I know I'm pursuing the right dream? Or how do I know if this is my destiny? Or how do I know if this is my calling? And for me, it's really simple. If you're drawn by the outcome, it's not your dream. If you love the process, it's your dream. yeah. If you're drawn by the outcome, it's not your destiny. But if you love the process, it's probably your destiny. And the same way with the calling, like, if you, you know, some people go, oh, I, I want to do what you do. I've had so many people over the years, you know, tell me, I want to do what you do. And I go, are you willing to do what I did?

Right.

And, like, no, I'm not.

It's a lot.

It's a lot. And, you know, because I, I've had the opportunity to speak. on stages to over to millions of people around the world. And I would have never imagined that opportunity. And it was never my ideal. I never thought, oh, one day I'm just going to speak to millions. Really, every day I was going, I just want to be able to communicate hope and meaning and life to whoever I interact with.

Yes.

And at first it was just one on one and it was one and five and one on ten. And it, you know, it and being true to those moments is what prepared me for the next moment.

Yeah. If you're only thinking about the, the outcome, the dream, the, the results, and that's where you want to be. And that's the goal. And if you're not enjoying the process, when you get to the goal, it's just going to be a miserable experience getting there. You're not going to be enjoying the hard work. and appreciating the process and how you're progressing.

-Yeah, because fame isn't a state of being. It's a vapor. And you can be famous in one moment, infamous the next. And, you know, so it's way better to pursue a life where you're worth knowing, not a life where you're well known.

-What'S the difference between being worth knowing and well known?

-Because a person may only have 10 friends, but be worth knowing. because their life has brought so much good to the people around them. Some of the most extraordinary people I know have almost no social media following. They don't care. And they just live their life to do good. They're always serving their friends. They're always bringing hope and inspiration to people around them. And if you focus on being worth knowing, then if your influence grows, it'll actually have value in the world. And I think one of the challenges with social media is that you can become famous just for existing. And I think that's where you will not have sustained success unless you actually begin to build who you are as a human being.

When someone is famous for just existing, and maybe not for adding value beyond existing, which existing is valuable obviously, but when you're extremely popular for existing without generating some type of value from people, what happens to them later down the line if they're popular, famous for existing as opposed to adding value?

It's not even what happens when an alliance what's happening to them right now. that all their energy is being focused on their persona rather than their personhood. Everything is being focused on what other people see about them and say about them rather than who they are becoming, what they say about themselves. That is why you find so many people who have rapid fame have such deep self-loathing, because they know that they are not what everyone loves.

-Wow, interesting.

And what people long for is to be loved. And what they'll settle for is to be admired, or to be adored, or to be worshipped. But what they really want is to be known and to be loved.

But if someone has a big following or they're famous, will they not feel that they're loved by that audience?

How do you explain how many artists have millions of followers and end up with such a radical drug addiction, or alcohol addiction, that their whole lives collapsed before they're 30 years old.

Why is that, do you think?

It's because human beings are not created to sustain a persona. And I use this psychological assessment that deals with image management. And what I found is that most successful people that I've graphed have an image management on a scale of 1 to 99 from 90 to 99.

Okay.

And so one of the great challenges is that they spend so much energy thinking about what other people think about them. And on that same scale, my neighbor is an 11, which is kind of funny because my wife is in the nineties. I think it'll be okay to say this. And I was leading this marriage event in Mexico, and we're dealing with this image management stuff. And my wife's like, I don't like the fact that my image management scores in the nineties, like, what will people think of me? She goes, I hate that yours is an 11 because that's half the problem in our marriage. You don't care what people are saying about you.

So 100 is what you care a lot what everyone thinks about you.

Yes. 99 is you're spending all of your energy building a persona of what other people think about you.

An image, a brand to your community.

And one would be, I don't care what you say, I don't care what you think. and maybe they don't even have any social etiquette, right? They might need a little bit of image management, right?

Sometimes there are people that say, I don't care what anyone thinks, but they actually care so much.

They actually care so much, that's right. And that's true. And they're creating a negative image because it matters so much. But what's funny is so one day I went and worked out in the gym, I was playing some paddle tennis, and I came back and I groaned. you know, and I went, oh, she goes, what's wrong? And I said, I hurt my back. She goes, shave your beard. And I said, shave your beard. I started laughing. I said, honey, that's image management. You think that if I shave my beard and look younger, it'll deal with my back.

Interesting. To yourself, yeah, yeah.

And she started laughing hysterically because it's so true, right? You know, it's that you can become convinced that if you can change your externals, it'll fix your internals. But it's so much... That's limited.

It's superficial. Maybe for a short period of time, but not...

It's so much harder to convince someone, change the internals. And they will transform your externals.

I mean, for someone that is a talented artist, an athlete, an actor, you know, entrepreneur, anything, someone that's got talent that's really developing themselves and Maybe they want to do something bigger and they would love to have a bigger audience that recognizes their art, talents, or unique abilities. What advice would you give to them right before they were about to pop off and have hundreds of thousands or millions of people all of a sudden aware of who they are, their gift and their talent?

Yeah, I see.

So that they set themselves up to be, you know, healthy as opposed to reliant on the opinions of that audience.

I think the most important thing is to have 3 to 5 really good friends before you're famous that you know are with you because of who you are and not what you accomplish. And they're not the ones that are riding on your success. They're the ones that are with you and are committed to your success. because I think what happens so oftentimes is we let go of those people. And then when we become famous, we surround ourselves with people who only say yes to us. And that becomes a real challenge. I mean, a huge part of what I do in coaching one-on-one is just tell people the truth. And it is so much harder than you think, right? because I remember one time having a conversation with someone lasted a few hours and when they finally saw it, actually, it wasn't. It lasted about two months of coaching. And after two months, I gave them this insight and they said, How long have you known that? I said, From the first minute. Right.

Of knowing you or meeting you.

Yeah. And they said, why don't you tell me right away? I said, It's one thing to know something about you. It takes longer to get you ready to hear it. And you can say it, and if a person isn't ready to hear it, it doesn't go anywhere. And so what you want is you want people in your life that just tell you the truth and you don't throw them out of your life. And when Kim and I were friends, I was about to take off on a trip to New Orleans, and we got in a fight, and she said, you, are so arrogant. and my immediate thought was, I don't need this. I can date someone who thinks I'm humble. But my backup thought was, I'm probably gonna marry this person. Because it doesn't even matter if she's right or wrong, I just assumed she was right. And what mattered was that she cared more about telling me what she thought than the relationship. And we've been married 40 years, and I think one of the things that's really helped me is we married someone it would just tell me what she really thought. Really thought about me, really thought about my choices, really thought about my attitude, really thought about my journey. And that has given me a great relational compass in my life. And even when I would start some huge projects, like when I started Mosaic, there were four families. And I said, I'm a person that's gonna make some radical changes. I'm going to innovate and create things that maybe have never existed before. But I want to make sure that these four families, they were not innovative or creative, but they had deep integrity. And I told myself, if these four families ever say to me, what you're doing is unethical, I will stop.

Right.

And so I let, and they were not my friends. They were acquaintances. They were just people identified as having incredible virtue. and I told myself, they're my benchmark. And, you know, 40 years later here in LA or 30 years plus, they're still with me. Well, that's cool. And it is very, very amazing, you know, but they, they be. And probably 20 years later, I told them, you were my benchmark. And because you need to have those, you need to have some external benchmarks in your life. You'd have people that go, hey, Louis, you know, you were okay, but you're not okay right now. Or, you know, I don't know if that decision is the best thing for you or. You know, you have to have people that you trust and you can still disagree with, but you let the council kind of seep in.

Yes.

And you process it and then you make your own decision, but at least you have those voices in your life.

How does someone, when they've gained recognition, fame, or some type of audience or community, and they haven't had that advice beforehand, and they're caught up in it now, How do they get back to a place of peace or wholeness or self-awareness about who they are as opposed to what everyone's thinking about their own identity?

I think this is why there's been an explosion of masterminds. Because when you're already successful, you're not really willing to listen to everyone.

Right.

But you are willing to listen to a peer group.

Yes.

And you're willing to be in an environment where people are as committed to excellence or success or whatever you're committed to. And I started this one mastermind for business guys, and I was at this event, saw this business guy, I think when he was 30 years old, he had his company at 100 million. And then dude, from his own description, due to his arrogance and character, he lost the entire company. His board voted him out. Oh. And then he rebuilt another. $100 million companies. It's a pretty successful guy. So we sit down and we're starting to talk. He goes, so what do you see? And I said, what I see is that you're going to die alone.

Wow.

And he just kind of looked at me and I said, you,'re super successful. But what you communicate to people through your essence is stay away from me. I don't need you. I'm not gonna give you access to who I am as a human being. I said, I met you the same day and I named three or four really influential people. I said, all of them have become my friends and all of them have become each other's friends, except for you. You don't have to be my friend. I may not be interesting enough for you, but you need to have some friends in your life. And if you react to them the way you reacted to me, I know you're alone. And later on, some other business guy came up and said, hey, this guy told me that you, you know, kick him to the curve, you know? And he said, no one talks to me like this. But I didn't have anything to lose. I wasn't trying to get anything from him. And I just looked at him, I thought, this is a really interesting human being who, if he could just make a small incremental shift in his life, could be super successful and not alone. And so he came up to me that night, he goes, so what do I do? And I said, start saying yes to people. So literally, I never meant to start a mastermind ever. That night I decided to start a mastermind. I sent out a text and he was the first one to sign up.

Wow.

You know, and I really started it for him and 11 men that I knew he would respect. And I think some of it is you need to have people in your life that you respect. And then you have to have someone in your life that maybe you kind of respect more than yourself. You know, that maybe has taken the journey a little further than you. And like, don't come to me to learn real estate.

Investing, yeah.

Don't ask me about, you know, tech, you know, stocks or anything like that, you know. And, but if you want to know how to live a whole life and how to have sustained success, that's something I'm good at. That's something I know. and so you have to find people who have an expertise in where you want to go in your life.

Yeah, that's interesting because I'm a part of a mastermind peer group that there's a number of men and women that I've known for, I don't know, 15 years in this industry that I'm in, right? And there's a number of men in there who are probably 10, 15, 20 years older than me. And I said at one point when I was kind of sharing my turn at this mastermind, I said, I really appreciative of the seasoned men in the room who have made mistakes and led the way with how to do things the correct way and all these different things. And so now every time I get a group text from them saying, us seasoned men, but I was like, well, you guys are just much smarter than me. So I don't know what you want me to say. But I definitely think we need to surround ourselves with people that we really respect and we look up to in ways that we can strive for it. It's what you did with that first four families when you were starting Mosaic. It's like you looked up to the way they lived their life and their virtues.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it doesn't matter if they're much older than you, your same age, or even younger than you. Are they doing things you can look up to that they have been consistently doing over time and have that honesty, which you said, which I think is really cool. You know, this guy sounds like He was really successful in one way. What was his frequency coming from in your seven frequencies? If you can, if you could show.

Us- He was definitely a commander.

A commander. So he was like, I'm gonna take charge and get things done.

Yeah, he had one frequency.

And that's the shadow, or what's the shadow side of that?

Dictator.

Dictator.

Yeah.

And so when you live in the shadow side of your frequency, you can, it sounds to me like you can create results, but there's always gonna be some type of Fallout somewhere.

Everyone in succession was successful.

Right.

Yeah. Well, or completely unsuccessful.

All right.

It, depending on how you measure success.

It seemed like they were all lonely, alone, lacking love, lacking self-love appreciation.

And so much brokenness that was there. Yeah. And, and you could see where a life will go, you know, even with a negative frequency, it's very powerful and, and. I think in the 60s and 70s, a lot of football coaches really operated from negative frequencies. And it was acceptable. That's the way you're supposed to coach is with negative frequencies. And now, you know, you have other coaches, you know, I mean, I feel like Pop and, you know, Steve Kerr and, you know, even Phil, you know, Jackson, and they began using different frequencies to teach. And, you know, whether it's like a professor frequency or or a motivator frequency. And even to some degree, sometimes you feel like they have a combination of like a healer frequency. Even some great coaches see their role as turning these young boys into men and helping them heal through their wounds and giving them a chance to really develop and grow. And I think even the world of athletics has shifted in the way people coach. And it's really just shifting from the shadow to the, you know, to the, positive frequency in a person's life. And you've known, you can watch someone on stage, all right? Because you have a lot of people come speak and I'm sure they're not all exactly what at times you had hoped.

Sure.

You know, you can watch someone who is a motivator, but you're realizing, wow, the room isn't really being motivated because they're really performing. And what they're really needing is affirmation of love from the room. And they're not trying to motivate the room, they're trying to get the room to motivate them. They're not affirming the room, they're trying to get the room to affirm them. Have you ever seen that, felt that? Or the challenger, we realize, the challenger can become a manipulator. And you can tell when there's a challenger on stage that's manipulating because they're not actually focused on inspiring and driving people toward their greatness. but to do what you want them to do. And it's subtle, but it's not as subtle when you pay attention to it. And frankly, this is my dilemma. Like, I remember years ago I met with Oprah's producer. They were looking at maybe doing a TV show. And she said, To do well on television, you have to either be flamboyant or authentic. And she said, Authentic is harder. And she goes, Our dilemma with you is that you're authentic and you're not flamboyant at all. I said, oh, does that explain Christian television? Because it's almost all flamboyant. And she goes, Exactly. And my dilemma is like, you know, as a person of faith is when I watch, quote, faith programming, I almost only see negative frequencies.

Really?

And it does concern me a lot of times because I think, what is it about one human beings that we're actually drawn to negative frequencies?

Why are we so drawn to the drama, the chaos, the breakdown, because it.

Reaffirms our negative frequencies. Because when, when we hear a negative frequency, it reaffirms our negative frequency and we don't have to change. And yeah, so you, you have to, you have to be careful because what you're drawn to tells you who you are.

What you're drawn to tells who you are, who you are. Man, I was, I was a broken person drawing, you know, drawing in all these relationships in the past, man.

I was, yeah.

We're all good.

Even when the person has like a healer frequency, but it's a shadow, they become the guru. And they convince you you cannot be healed without them. Right. And they become your source of healing.

Yeah, that's dark.

Yeah, and even honestly, you know, in the role I've had as a pastor, like I'm always really hesitant. People go, I need you to pray for me. They go, you actually don't. You just, you need to pray. There's no difference between my praying and your praying because you have the same access to God that I do. I spent my life making sure that no one thought that somehow I had this magical power that I was the intermediary between them and God. I go, no, I'm a mess too. You know, I'm praying too. I'm asking God to do stuff and nothing happens a lot of times either, you know? And I think it's really important. And as a healer, your focus is in trying to get healed by other people's need for you. And I'm sure you've seen that when someone so desperately needs to be loved that they're needing to be healed and that healer frequency is inverted on them. and it's always a little, to me that's one of the most dangerous ones because that's how culture started, is when that person with the healer frequency has a shadow frequency and they become the guru. Yeah.

Why do you think hurt people hurt people? I don't know if you've heard that saying before.

I have heard that saying. You know, the problem with cliches is that they're quite often true. Yeah. You know, well, I think one, I think when you're hurt, you think anger is a strength. You think bitterness is a strength. Because if you stop and think about it, when you're bitter, you don't feel weak. See, when you're angry, you don't feel weak.

You feel powerful.

Powerful. Strong.

Yeah.

And so what happens is that these negative emotions hide your own vulnerability and weakness and pain. so as long as I'm bitter, I don't have to think about the fact that I've been betrayed. As long as I'm angry, I don't think about the fact that I'm so deeply wounded, I can't even deal with it. And so we use these negative emotions to feel powerful. And it's the most terrifying thing in the world to let go of those negative emotions, because now you're completely powerless. And you have to trust it. that if you can let go of hate, that love is more powerful. That if you can let go of bitterness, that forgiveness is more powerful. That if you can stop hurting people, that you will not get more hurt. But here is the problem: whenever you love, you risk being hurt. I can say to someone, if you will just love, you will never be hurt.

-Right.

-In fact, I want to say the opposite. If you choose to love, you will be hurt. But when you love, you have enough strength to overcome that hurt.

Yes.

And I think that's a part of the challenge of it is that the most dangerous thing in the world is intimacy. And it's what we long for the most. That's what we fear the most. And that's why it's such a dangerous place. And so it's so much easier you know, Louis, to judge people than to be honest with their own shortcomings, right? It's so much easier to hurt you so that you can't hurt me first. Years ago when, you know, we had the whole thing with the Unabomber, if you remember that, you know, and there's all these studies on people living in isolation and becoming mass murderers. And what ends up happening is- Because.

You don't hear about someone who's fully loved and has a great community and friends becoming a murderer.

Yeah. When you feel rejected by the world, you reject the world.

-Mm. -Yeah.

-And when you feel that the world is your enemy, your only act of human engagement is violence. And that is the greatest danger in the human spirit.

It could be violence towards others or towards yourself.

-Yeah. Yeah, because the self-loathing is so deep. that your only expression of yourself is violence. And that's why it's so important to not move toward isolation. Human beings are not designed for isolation. We're not designed for disconnection. We're designed for community. And I mean, why do you think we are always finding ways to identify together? You know, I mean, whether it's church or synagogue or temple, or the rams or the Chargers or the Lakers or the Clippers, Everyone finds a community, everybody finds a tribe. I mean, isn't it the silliest thing in the world for a full-grown man to be wearing jerseys of players that are, you know.

-Half their age.

-Half their age, yeah. Right, you know? But we're Rams fans, right? You know, and I'm a Rams fan, you know, 'cause I have a wonderful relationship with Sean McVay. And so now we're like huge, you know, Rams fans. But you have whatever, 60,000 people, they're screaming, and they all have something in common in that moment. It's not just the event on the field, it's the commonality in the arena that connects people together. We are designed for human community. We're designed for relation. The pandemic, if you could ever have a social experiment to see how humans do alone, the pandemic gave us that. The quarantine proved that human beings do not do well alone. We cannot survive isolation. And what's so funny is that when people, have you ever thought to yourself, I'm in the rat race, I'm moving so fast, I have all these responsibilities, I have all these obligations. If I could just get everything to stop, then I could really fix myself. I could really do my inner work and I could really be healed. So the whole world stopped and no one got better.

Right.

You know why? Because the problem isn't what's going on around you. The problem is what's going on inside of you. And when the world stopped, your inner world didn't change. You were now in a chamber, an echo chamber, where all you could hear was the stuff inside of your soul. And it wasn't good. And I had so many people that just struggled with depression, anxiety, stress, even suicidal thoughts. because of that quarantine, because of that isolation. And I made an internal choice. I mean, during the pandemic, I wrote a book, I wrote a graphic novel, I started a fashion company. I just kept creating the whole time. And frankly, it's because my inner world is a creative space. My inner world was actually a healthy space. And so during the pandemic and the quarantine, I actually found incredible space to create and to enjoy life and see beauty all around me and to serve a lot of people. And every Friday I took my smoker and I cooked enough food for 40 people and people would drive my buy my house and pick up dinner for their families. And, you know, I just kept finding ways to create. My wife went crazy. I mean, she put chairs in the front yard and had all the neighbors coming by and stopping. She would create these outdoor installations where people come and take photographs of their families, and she would just keep creating these beautiful moments. where people all over Hancock Park could experience some joy, some laughter and some community. And what you do know is that when you are finally by yourself, you get to realize what's really inside of you. And what I know is that I'm healthy or at least healthier because I have community.

Yes.

And if I did not have community, I don't think I could have survived that experience at the same level of of creativity, productivity.

What is the, you know, based on the new book that you have now called Mind Shift?

Oh, we're gonna talk about the book.

It doesn't take a genius to think like one. What is the mind shift that people in the world need to think about right now after isolation and after lots of transformations and loss and grief and all these things? What is the mind shift that we need and what is kind of the main thesis behind the book that I want everyone to get?

Sure, there are 12 basic mind shifts in the book, but the overarching mind shift, which is what you're asking me, is that most of your limitations are actually internal, not external. And in fact, there's one page in the book, I think it's the first page, it's only one sentence. So the first page of the book is one sentence that says, the intention of this book is to destroy your internal limitations. The book has one singular purpose, and that's to destroy your internal limitations.

-Because there are certain external limitations that may be limiting you in some ways.

But the internal, -They're the ones that matter.

-They'Re the ones that matter.

Yeah. In fact, I was, I had our friends, Joel's bachelor party, right? And so he turns it into a mastermind where I end up teaching for three hours and then doing two hours of Q&A and then two hours of coaching. And one of the guys said, you know, I'm working for this company and I just keep hitting this wall. And if I could just get past this wall, I could get this huge promotion and have this huge advancement. But I just can't break through this wall. Can you help me figure out how to break through this wall? And I said, okay, stop. I want you to imagine yourself right now on the other side of that wall. and just imagine your life, imagine your career. He goes, Can you see it? He goes, I can. And I said, Do you want that life? And he goes, no. And I said, you, are the wall. And most of the time in life, we actually think we're hitting walls that are external, but the walls are actually internal. And Louis, I can look at my life, most of the ceilings throughout my life were all mine. I took the plaster. I put the bricks up there.

-Put them up there, yeah.

-And then I yelled at the world and yelled at God for limiting me. And I created my own limitations. And so what I wanted to do in the book is I wanted to make these small mental shifts that if a person makes, it will unlock their life at a ridiculous level. And the idea of the book, you know when you write a book, you don't really know when you start it, right? The idea kind of is there for a while, but I know exactly when this book started. When? October 26, 1990. That's a long time ago.

Wow.

33 years ago. On October 26, 1990, I was listening to sports radio driving through Dallas, Texas. And the day before, on October 25th, Buster Douglas defended his title against Evander Holyfield. Eight months earlier, on February 11th in Tokyo, Japan, BussHer Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson in the 10th round. He has eight months to train to prepare to defend his title. He comes in a fight overweight, out of shape, unprepared, gets knocked out, doesn't.

Even- and I think the third round.

Right. He looks terrible.

Sloppy. Yeah. So the next- He's living that champ life. He was like, yeah, you know, he.

Was, he's from my hometown, Columbus, Ohio. Okay. Yeah. Sports radio, they're talking about Buster. And one guy said- Before the fight or after the fight? No, after the fight. They're reflecting on this terrible defense, right?

Really bad.

And they said, why do you think Buster didn't even try? Which is a really important question. And then the other guy said this, which was to my own embarrassment, because Buster Douglas is like a great guy. He's even like a Christian. About great. He's deeply religious. And then the third guy said, Some people are simply structured for failure. And when I heard that statement, it shook me.

Wow.

And in that moment, it shifted from Buster Douglas to me. And I went, Wait a minute. Am I structured for failure? Do I have the internal structures for failure or the internal structures for success? Or do I have a combination of those? and my internal structures for failure are warring against my internal structures for success. And that's why sometimes I'm succeeding and then I'm tripping over myself and failing. And am I creating pathways to success and then creating all the roadblocks for failure at the same time? And then what hit me with Buster Douglas is that he actually knew how to handle failure. He had lost, I think, five fights before that. so it wasn't failure that he didn't know how to handle. It was success he didn't know how to handle.

Right.

And so on that day, October 26, 1990, is when I began writing this book, My Shift, because that's when I began objectively studying internal structures of failure and asking the question, what are the internal structures of failure and success? And I'm like you, I'm a very optimistic person.

Yeah.

I'm incredibly hopeful. So the moment I see negative, I see the positive right away. So I'm going, oh wow, I'm gonna study these negative structures for failure, but I'm gonna actually begin to construct all the positive structures for success. And I was working with the urban poor at the time. I was working in the inner city with a lot of gangs, with a lot of drug runners and people trapped in poverty. And I knew that if I could change their internal mental structures, I could actually prepare them for a life of success. And I realized that poverty creates self-limiting structures. And one of the things you have to do for a person is not just give them opportunity. You actually have to change their internal mental structures so they can see those opportunities and take advantage of them.

And you can't just give them what looks like success without changing those structures internally.

It all begins internally, before it begins begins to be actualized externally. And so I wrote Mind Shift because I thought, wow, if I had just known these things in my 20s or known them in my 30s or even my 40s, if I had had clarity about them, I would have accelerated my success at a faster level and I would increase my influence dramatically.

So what is the main thing that you can see in someone that says they are structurally prepared to welcome success in their life and handle it and potentially stay successful versus someone that is not prepared, they're wired for failure or structured for failure, and when success comes, it's all downhill after that. What's the difference between those two?

If I have to pick one word, because remember, I have 12 chapters.

Yes.

One word, it's ownership. One of the chapters of the book is called you are your own ceiling. And when you take ownership over your life, and I had some pushback on this the other day, because I spoke about this at the Global Leadership Summit about that our limitations are self-imposed. You can have trauma in your life. You can have circumstances and situations that are dramatic. But the structures that are internal are self-created. They're your response to those circumstances, to those traumas, to those situations. And somebody said, that's so unfair. You know, you're putting all the blame on the person. No, I'm not. I'm giving all the ownership. Because if the limitations are external, you're powerless. You're relying on someone else to give you power.

Someone's got to fix it.

But if the limitations are internal, you're powerful. So to me, no, this is the most optimistic, positive, empowering mindset framework. If those limitations are within me and I've created them out of responses to the world around me, then I can change them and I can redirect them and realign them. And so maybe I became bitter. Maybe I'm a hurt person who hurt people. And I thought hurting people is the only way to survive a world that constantly hurts me. But that's the mindset I created. But now I realize, oh, this is a self-limiting mindset. If I'm always gonna hurt people, I will never be loved. If I'm always gonna hurt people, I'll never know closeness, I'll never know intimacy, I'll never have friendships. I'm gonna live my life alone. See, the moment you realize, oh, this self-limiting mental structure of hurting people, because I've been hurt, is actually costing me everything I want in life. And then you go, okay, it doesn't feel right, but I'm going to forgive. It just feels so counterintuitive. But I'm going to let go. I'm going to forgive people. And the moment you forgive and you begin to open yourself up to people and begin to trust people, your life changes instantly. It's radicalized. And you Know this as an athlete, like one of the chapters talks about talent. And how, what I find is people who are highly talented when they're young actually struggle with having structures for sustained success.

Really?

They do. Because their talent is usually matched with external structures for success. So if you're a super athlete, they put you on a team and then they give you a coach and they create discipline in your life and they manage that talent.

It's not self-discipline, is what you're saying.

No, it's an external structure. And that's why about 75% of all pro football players five years after they're done with their career are bankrupt. It's why about, you know, at least half to three quarters of them are divorced, drug addicted, dead, or divorced within two to three years after their careers over because their talent did not require them to create internal structures.

Interesting.

Because they're external structures. See, I had the great gift of not having talent. And when you have low talent, you have to create high internal structures. Because if you're going to succeed, if I'm going to match against someone who has high talent, I have to have A harder work ethic.

It's extreme discipline.

I have to be more disciplined. I have to have more determination.

I have to- Be organized, yeah.

A different internal structure because I'm at a liability. And so I have people in my life who were super talents when they were young. And I grew up with them and I was considered nominally talented.

Yes.

Average, right? And then the moment we were out of high school and the moment we're out of college and the moment we're in the real world, They actually lost momentum and I accelerated. In fact, they couldn't figure out how suddenly, now that we're in our 20s, I looked like a super talent and they looked like they lacked talent. And the difference was that talent is a hallucinogen. It's an illusion that allows you to believe you do not need discipline and hard work to succeed in life.

Right.

But greatness is not the outcome of talent. Greatness is the outcome of discipline. And it's taking that talent and harnessing it to its optimal capacity.

Yeah, I don't know if you've watched the sports documentaries Untold. I don't know if you've seen that one. I have seen that one. It's on ESPN. It's not on ESPN, it's on Netflix.

But it's a series of sports documentaries.

And there was one of Johnny Manziel that just came out. Oh, I just started watching that one. That one, yes. So that's on Netflix of that series, right? And here's the guy who was the most talented, you know, the first Heisman Trophy winner as a freshman in college, beating Alabama in Alabama. talented, right? An incredibly talented guy the next year plays, gets drafted in the first round, goes to the, unfortunately, my team, the Browns.

And is that really a team?

Hey, you know, you know you're a real fan when you support a team that never wins, you know, for your whole life.

Me with the Clippers, exactly.

And he talks about, I don't know if you finished it, but at the end he was like, They asked him, How much film did you watch in NFL, your whole time in the NFL? And he says zero. He didn't show up for film. He wasn't disciplined. He was partying on the weekends and he thought his talent would allow him to deliver at the next level. And talent alone didn't work for him. And he had it at an early age. And so that's definitely something that, you know, I felt like I didn't have the talent, but I had the work ethic, the discipline, the willingness to remove distractions from my life, you know, all these different things to, to focus, to show up and, and make the most of my talent as well.

So, yeah, I, I think there's the curse of talent, and especially when you are a Prodigy at a young age.

Yeah. Or you win Olympic gold at 16. And you're like, now what? Hey, now.

And, and, you know, and fortunately, most of us, you know, we have some degree of talent, but. not so much that we begin to live in this mythology that we don't have to work hard, you know? But it's such a small little shift when you think about, you go, oh, okay, I can accomplish almost anything if I'm willing to pay the price to develop the disciplines, to develop the skills to accomplish this. And so I actually think there's like no limit. which is why for me, I've been able to, you know, went to Felham and, you know, did fashion and write books and speak and all these different things because I always know, hey, I'm starting the same way no matter what I do, zero talent, a lot of determination, high learning mode. And I remember years and years ago I said, look, eventually determination gets mistaken for talent and hard work gets mistaken for genius. which is why the subtitle of the book, it doesn't take a genius to think like one. Because really, what's the point of having a high IQ if you don't make good choices every day of your life? And to me, the real genius is making the choices that give you the life that you've longed for. The optimal expression of who you are as a human being. And this is embarrassing, but they just downloaded TikTok on my phone. I, I, I don't get hooked on it. And, and so I started, like, watching, you know, Tick Tock, and, and all of a sudden I started getting a little addicted and, and it started coming up in all these musicians that were auditioning for, I don't know, some, I don't know, X Factor or some show. I have no idea. Mary Scott Townsend or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and every time some unknown person sang, I start crying and, what's wrong with me? Like, this is, like, a product of, of age now, you know? and I realized what my passion is, is helping people discover their latent potential. Like one of the things I think is tragic is when people never live or have their genius or greatness identified and appreciated in life. And so every time I see a small glimpse of that, I actually get really moved. And I realized that, no, a part of my huge drive in life is to help people find these small granular shifts that unlock their own like genius and their greatness and their potential and their capacity. And I want people to be surprised. I want people to go, I never knew I was capable of this. Because I look back on my life now, Louis, and I go, I just can't believe I get to live this life. I can't believe this happened to me. I can't believe that I've been able to accomplish these things. I can't believe that I write books and do all this stuff and can't believe I get to have a conversation with you. It's all like a dream for me. It's all a miracle.

Life is fun.

And it's so good and I want that for everyone at the level at which they were designed to live it. I just think there's people right now that are living a life that's imposed on them. and there's a little voice inside of them just saying, you know, you're created for a different life, but they haven't found the courage or maybe the encouragement, you know, to step into that. And for me, it's like if I can help one person just find the courage or the encouragement to go, I'm gonna begin to live this new life, this life that I feel like I was created to live. Who cares if you fail? It's so much more fun failing in a life you long for. did a life you didn't want anyway.

100%. Yeah. I want to make sure everyone gets this book, Mind Shift. It doesn't take a genius to think like one. And if you feel like you're not built for success at the levels you want, if you don't feel like you have the internal systems to sustain accomplishments and the success that you want in your life, this will support you shifting your mind in a way to set yourself up for success in a bigger way. So make sure you guys take a look at this. If you're afraid of failure, if that's one of the things that holds you back from your potential, putting your potential out there, get this book to support you in overcoming that fear and insecurity so you can build the internal systems stronger for the success you want in your life. Excited about this. I want people to go get a copy or two. They can go to erwinmcmanus.com for all your information. Also, we were talking about the frequencies earlier. You've got program on frequencies and communication frequencies. Right.

And if people want to access the seven frequencies of communication, we're about to come out with an assessment, which is.

Gonna be really exciting.

Where can we get that? Well, the best thing to do is to join our learning community called the Arena and go to irwinmcmanus.com/thearena. There's a membership involved and all the content we create is accessible for free there.

That's cool.

And then we'll do live sessions. I'll be walking people through the seven frequencies. We're going to take people's messages, their talks around the world, and help them break down their talks based on different frequencies. Oh, cool. It would be fun someday to do something like that with you. For sure. And some of the maybe people at the summit. And we'll study some world class speakers because I think the best speakers oftentimes use two frequencies at the same time and they almost seem to be conflicting frequencies that create a huge powerful edge like healer and commander at the same time. It makes a uniqueness. Creates a very special. Yeah. and I really have a passion to teach people to communicate at the highest level possible. I think words are beautiful. It's an art form. I think communication should be both poetry and prose. It should teach us things, but should also inspire us and create imagination and images in us.

You're also on TikTok now, it sounds like. So make sure to follow you on TikTok.

I think my team's got that out there. I don't want to miss that.

I was kidding. But we can follow you everywhere on Instagram, social media, or when McManus.com if you're in LA, go to Mosaic. It'll be one of the most inspiring hours, hour and a half of your month or of your year, especially when you are there speaking. So make sure you guys go to Mosaic, check it out. Very grateful for you. And I've asked you the question about three truths in the past before. So if people are interested in Learning your three truths, we'll link up the previous interview where you can go listen to that and hear your three truths. I want to appreciate and acknowledge you, Owen, for just your constant leadership, your constant support, your friendship. And it's just very special for me to be in your world. So I'm grateful for you. I'm glad we're friends. I'm glad I live in LA so I can go watch you a mosaic when I have the chance. and appreciate you constantly redefining your age, your 60s, you're redefining 60s, you're still sharing, contributing, creating, serving at a high level. And I think that's what makes you so youthful energetically and so young energetically because of your level to commit to others, your service to others. So grateful for you, appreciate you, love you, thank you.

Hey, thank you my brother.

Love you.

A part of the mistake of adulthood is that we see maturity as equivalent to standardization. If I can make you the same as everyone else, you're now an adult. If I can teach you to be standardized and to conform, you are now an adult. Right. And, you know, I think neuroscience tells us that.