What RICH People Understand That Poor People Don't | Vivian Tu

There's a study and it shows that the smartest person is not the one that gets paid the most. Being smart and being the best employee gets you to a certain point. You need to be liked.

Best selling author, the Taylor Swift of.

Finance Personal finance educator, public speaker. She is Vivian too. Women who bring nothing more to the table than their good looks have a depreciating asset. I don't want to say that, but it's true.

It is true.

I think there's going to be a real painful, like, come to Jesus moment.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Vivian Tu in the house, who is a former Wall street trader, financial expert, teacher, coach, podcaster, and now author of Rich af, which is all about the winning money mindsets that will change your life. Vivian, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Appreciate it. I'm so excited because money is something that a lot of people struggle with. So many people struggle with it. Even when they have money, it's almost like they're more afraid of it and they get more scarce. They don't know how to manage it. All these different things. I'm curious though, for people that don't have money or feel like money is out of reach for them, is it possible for anyone to become wealthy or to become rich or is it only for a certain mindset or a certain demographic of people?

Yeah, I think anybody who wants to have money, anybody who wants to have richness can get there. But it certainly is not as easy as everyone on the Internet makes it seem. It's not rah rah, Amazon dropshipping, rah rah wholesale real estate, rah rah, buy some life insurance and you're good to go. Like, that's just not it. And I think a big conversation that we don't talk about is proximity. Right? So like in my life now, I have many rich friends and those rich friends provide me additional rich opportunities. So I got to go to the US Open on a bank's dime because my fiance worked with a guy who is at an investment bank and he had four tickets, took him, his wife, my fiance, and myself. Those tickets are thousands of dollars. Like they're very, very expensive. I have friends who had incredible, an incredible accountant, had, you know, great team in terms of financials for business. And they were like, you should talk to my team. That's how I got hooked up with my business manager. If you don't have that proximity to people who have money, who've Done it. Who played the playbook? How are you going to learn it? Because sure, if you are a young person growing up, low income, and you want to make smart money decisions, work very hard in school, get good grades, do the American dream thing, and you go, you get to Harvard. Okay, you get to Harvard. The rich kids still don't want to be friends with you. Why not? Because you can't afford to split the table at the club on Friday night.

Wow.

You can't afford to pay for the dues for your finals club or whatever they call it. Like, you don't have that money to get you there. So I think the process of becoming wealthy and becoming rich and having money, it's available to anyone. But the trajectory and the timeline is very, very different.

Interesting where you start. So proximity alone isn't enough, is what I'm hearing you say, because you could have the grades or the skills and the proximity, but if you don't have the money still, then people may not. What are you. What are you saying?

So I'm saying that proximity makes it easier.

Yes.

So if you grow up rich and your parents are, you know, very, very tough, and they're like, we're not leaving a penny to you guys. You still grew up around all those rich people.

You still have access, contacts, information.

Exactly. And you still got all those soft skills. Whereas someone whose parents are like, I will leave you every dollar I have. But they grow up lower middle class. They don't have that proximity that you had growing up.

It's like a language. You didn't get to hear the language. See how things were done, see how deals were talked about. Even if you weren't involved in doing the deals or paying for the things, you witnessed and experienced it over a decade or two.

So on Wall street, we call them execution or knife and fork guys. So execution guys are the technical ones. They're like the ones that are actually good at the job. Right. And then you got knife and fork guys. And the reason they're called knife and fork is because they know they have all of those elegances that if you don't grow up watching that day in, day out, you don't know. They know that the littlest utensils here and the biggest one comes in closer to your plate. They know how to take the napkin and fold it politely over their seat or like over their lap. They know that the dessert spoon goes this way. And they have those soft skills that are kind of like the tell of how you can kind of spot another rich person. Like, I Can smell the rich on someone.

Really?

Oh yeah.

But there's a lot of like fake rich also. So can you smell the rich and the fake rich?

Yes.

What's the difference between people who are actually rich and those who are acting like they're rich?

People who are actually rich, like you rich and. Sorry, guys.

That's good. That's good.

They're not concerned about impressing you.

Interesting.

They're. They are. I talk about this in my book. They are apex predators. They do not worry about what you think about them.

Wow.

That it is. The guy that you see walking into a three Michelin star restaurant and in a quiet, normal looking outfit, sweater vest situation, eats his meal, leaves a 50% tip. Because they can. That's true wealth. Then you've got the wannabe wealth that goes to that same restaurant dripped out in a designer label, is, you know, making a scene. Why isn't this water sparkling? This is still. I don't like that. No, no, no. Like just, you know, really, really new to the experience. And then leaves at 10%.

Wow, that's interesting. So is there. What are the other soft skills that you can tell between someone who's actually rich and someone who's faking it or trying to be rich or maybe has some money but they're trying to show it off too much?

So I would say that people who want to look rich brag about things. Look at my new bag, look at my new car. Really rich people, they don't brag. They talk about experiences that they have. So this is another experience and like one that I frankly couldn't really relate to when I first started in my career because I didn't come from that kind of money. But when it was around vacation season and people were talking about going to.

Italy and the yachts and the.

Not even the yachts, but everybody had a restaurant in Capri that you had to try. Everyone had their favorite place for gelato, you know, in Venice. Whatever, like whatever it was, you could tell that person had lived life in a way that someone who doesn't have that kind of access, who doesn't have that kind of money, doesn't have because they can't take the time off. They don't have the money to go to those places. And even if they did, they, they would be doing things on the path versus stuff off the beaten path that lets them live like a local.

What would you say are a few practical things? If people are like, you know, I'm just kind of. I don't have money for the Next few months, I don't have an emergency fund. I don't have. I've got debts I'm still paying off. If someone is financially sick and unwell and their financial health is unstable, what are a few strategies they can do to either increase their income or get back to financial holiday wholeness?

I would say something that people struggle with realizing is that these changes you'll have to make, they're not permanent. They're only temporary.

Yes.

And you are going to be uncomfortable. It's not going to be fun. And I am very anti. Cut out the avocado toast. Don't buy the coffee. Rah, rah. Okay. I am.

Yeah.

But if you are in a truly a dark, dark hole and there's no ladder to crawl out, cut it out. Like, you literally have to cut it out. You have to make some temporary changes that are very uncomfortable. And to your point, like, we focus so much on cutting out every single little discretionary cost. Do you know how hard it is to cut out $5,000 worth of expenses? Do you know how easy it is to ask for a $5,000 raise? A $5,000 raise happens every single day. Like that is par for the course. That's not anything special. Cutting out $5,000. You know, many coffees you have to cut out. You know how many meals you can't go out to. Do you know how many friends you might lose in that process? So, again, I think it's really, really important to be asking for that raise. And I mean, 10, 15% every single year. Are you going to get it every year? Probably not. But you get 7%, great. You get 8% great. You got to ask and you got to remind them pretty much for six months out of the year that you deserve that raise and that you want money, that you are money motivated. Because if you ask in December, when everybody else is asking for money, you're at the back of the list.

Yeah. Yeah.

You want to be on top of the pile when your boss starts thinking about who's getting a raise this year.

What can someone do who is a employee to be really smart and intentional about getting a raise.

Yeah.

How can they show their value, their work ethic, that they're getting the results that's going to increase revenue in the business, as opposed to just saying, give me a 20% raise or 10% raise because I deserve it.

Yeah.

How do they enroll through actual results as opposed to, I just want to raise.

Yeah.

Give it to me, otherwise I'm not happy.

Yeah. So you remember those two Guys, on Wall street, you got the executioners and then you got the knife and fork guys. So on the execution side, make yourself a brag book. So it's a literal folder.

A brag book, A brag book, razor.

Seats, promo pitch, whatever you want to call it, just make one. It's a folder in your email and every time something good happens to you, every time you get a pat on the back from another team member from your company, put it, forward it to that folder. A client says, wow, you know, you did such a great job, whatever, put it in that folder. Anything that good, good that happens to you, put in that folder. Because that way when you go and you have to write those really annoying self assessments, you can go back and literally look through those emails and be like, oh, remember that time I did that one thing and that thing and that thing. And now you have quantifiable results that you can point to. The second piece is the knife and fork piece. There's a study and it shows that the smartest person is not the one that gets paid the most.

Right?

They're like second most paid. Second or third most paid. Yeah. Being smart and being the best employee gets you to a certain point. But the person that is paid the most is the person that is essentially Mr. Or Mrs. Congeniality. You need to be liked. You need, and not so much like you have to be agreeable and likable, but like people have to think of you.

Like you gotta be top of mind.

You gotta be top of mind. And you have to be unfortunately popular around the office. So that happens by not skipping the company happy hour. That happens by joining your stupid wreck pickleball league with your bot. Like, you know what I mean? Like you have to do those things if you really want that. And I know people listening to this might think like, well, I have kids, I can't do the pickleball league. I can't go to the happy hour. Okay, Ask your boss to go to lunch once every three weeks. Make that time, force that time, do the water cooler thing. Cuz it might cause you 15 minutes, it might cost you 15 minutes of your day and it might cost you that 15 minutes of productivity. I guarantee you nobody is going to miss that 15 minutes of your work product. But they'll remember when you told that funny joke, they'll remember that story you told about, you know, the one, you know, funny thing that happened that weekend. Because that is how people remember you. It's not about like, oh, do you remember who closed that amazing deal last Quarter. Nobody says that.

Right. You know what I think about is, like, who is. Who is able to show up with just consistent, good attitude, energy, and effort consistently? Who creates the least amount of stress?

Yes.

You know that I'm.

I don't.

I don't want to think about the challenges and the stress that is being brought to the team or to myself. But that you're just consistent. Not that you can't have a challenging day or bad stuff happens, but just overall, you got pretty good attitude.

Yeah.

Pretty good energy. You're willing to show up and work hard consistently. It's like, all right, cool. You're gonna get rewarded.

Yeah.

But go ahead.

No, I was gonna say it's also like doing an elevator test or airport test. When you're looking at a resume, how many times has someone asked you about your past job experience in detail? Frankly, not that many times. You know what everybody beelines to on my resume?

What's that?

They look at the very bottom and they're like, interests, activities. And they're like, oh, that's weird. I see you were a. Literally, that's weird. You were a cheerleader in college. And I'm like, yes. And they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, why don't I seem so fun and bubbly and like, you know, it's the same day that I'm wearing all black and I look so, like, depressed. Or they'll look at the bottom of my resume and they're like, interest mob movies. What's your favorite one? And I'm like, goodfellas, obviously. And then we get into a 20 minute debate and I waste 20 minutes on our interview. But you only now have 10 minutes to ask me technical questions. And if I aced those 10 minutes of questions instead of 30 minutes, I now look like a genius. Cause every question you asked me, I got right. And then even better, like the fact that you and I now have something in common. Because you know that Goodfellas is my favorite movie. I know that the Godfather's your favorite movie. So now we're friends.

Yeah. You're more likable.

Yeah.

It sounds like people hire or they give raises or opportunities to people they like more. Is that what I'm hearing you say? Where was the study from? Do you remember this likability study?

Can't exactly remember.

We'll have to look it up.

But it'll literally be like the first Google search. Literally, just be like, you know, smartest person doesn't get paid the most.

Right.

It's been shown Time and time again.

It's not about being the smartest or the most technical. It's about you want to have technical skills and be smart.

You got to be a B plus student with an A plus personality. And that'll get you farther than being an A plus student with a B plus personality.

Interesting. It's more about personality than your technical skills is what it sounds like. Interesting. Yeah, but you got to be competent as well.

Yeah, I mean, you can't, you can't have an A personality and just be like a D minus, like, like you're still bad at the job. They don't want you around.

Man, I don't know how I got here then. I was like barely past school, you know. But it's interesting. We were just talking about this event this last weekend and one of the speakers events, Van Edwards, she's like kind of like a behavioral scientist and studies people and soft skills and all these different things. And she was like being. If you want to be interesting as a human being, it's not about how much knowledge you know or how funny stories you tell or whatever your history. It's about how interested you are in other people. It's like your ability to, to listen and engage and ask more questions. And when people feel that you care about them and are interested in them, they're going to be more interested in you. And so it's, it's kind of turning the tables around where you don't need to be that smart, but you need to be present, you need to be engaging, you need to be able to have courage to ask those questions and look someone in the eyes and, you know, just have a good energy. And I think that's part of it as well. That'll take you a long way in a career. So that's what I'm hearing you say around if you're wanting to increase your income is some practical things. What about if you have a sick financial health and you're just, you're not sure where your money's at, you're not sure where you're spending your money, you're not sure how much debt you have, you're, you know, buying three lattes a day or whatever it is and you're just like, huh, I really don't have an emergency fund, I really don't have much savings, I don't have any investments and I'm in debt. How can they get back to a healthy place? What are practical steps they can do?

Yeah, this is my you're rich BFF strip method OOH Strip it up. If you want to be good with money, you got to strip.

Strip.

So S stands for savings. It's so important to get that emergency fund first. You break your leg, some bad happens to you, you, you're going to need it.

Yeah.

And if you don't have it, you're going to get worse into debt.

Just start with emergency fund.

Emergency fund.

I like to say six months. Three months.

If you are a singleton who rents, three to six months is totally fine. If you got a family, you got a mortgage, are a little higher, you probably want to be closer to nine to 12.

Okay, cool.

T stands for total debt. And I say total debt because people think about debt as this evil thing. Not all debt is created equal. And debt with higher interest rates, things like credit card debt, when you're looking at a 22 to 25% interest rate, is a lot dicier than something like federal student loan debt. You might have like a 3% interest rate on that. Like those two do not compound at the same rate. It's just math. So what you do is you rank your debt from highest to lowest interest rate and you pay it down in that order. You pay off the minimum balance of every single account on the higher one first. So you pay off the minimum balance on everything.

Okay, gotcha.

But any money you have left over to pay down debt, you put towards the highest interest rate.

The highest first.

Yes.

Even if it's got. Even if, I don't know, even if it's got the least amount or the most amount of debt. It doesn't matter.

Does not matter. Some people prefer the snowball, which is you ranking from smallest to largest balance. It's great positive reinforcement because you're starting, you're able to clear accounts faster, but you pay more interest.

Right.

And I'm an Aries. I'm like really impatient.

So psychologically you might be like, oh, I'm getting things done faster, but you're not. But you might be still paying more in interest later.

Correct. And we're talking about someone who does not have the money to afford that interest. So we got to go fastest.

Got it. Okay, so total debt. That's the total debt.

R stands for retirement. I know. You know, especially my audience. So many people are young and they're like, they're not thinking about retiring 40 years away. It's 30 years away. It's like millennial.

Gen Z. Yeah.

It will be here before you know it. And again, now I do know where this study come from. Credit Karma did a survey and over A quarter of people over the age of 59 have not a dollar save for retirement.

Come on. Not a dollar over 59. 25% don't have anything for SA.

27% is the accurate 7%.

Wow.

Not a dollar.

Why is that? Why do people wait so long to have, you know, zero retirement? You ever walk out of the grocery store or fill up on your tank and just think to yourself, how is everything this expensive? Feels like prices are going up everywhere. But how great would it be if just once, just once something actually went down in price? It'd be pretty amazing, wouldn't it be? Well at Metro that's exactly what's happening. They're lowering their prices and are giving you a five year price guarantee. On talk, on text and on data one line now 20% lower family plans also lowered. Oh and you also get a free 5G phone, all with no ID required and no activation fees. Stop by your neighborhood Metro store, visit metrobyt-mobile.com or call to find out about their amazing offers.

I think on one hand in part it's education. It's that thought of like I'll be young forever. Two, I will say many, many of those people are likely in lower paying jobs. They are, you know, not offered employer sponsored retirement plans. They don't know to create their own individual one. And I think things happen throughout the years. So like maybe you were really responsible about putting away money for retirement if you get sick, right. What do you like? You can't not get treated like that's, you know, it's hard. Life happens. But it is important to think about retirement now. And this is my favorite part because I love tax bennies. Tax bennies, bennies being benefits.

Okay.

You know, tax benefits, saving for retirement, investing for retirement. You can get tax benefits, that's True. In a 401k or Roth 401. In an IRA. A Roth IRA at one point, whether the money is going in or coming out, at one point you don't have to pay taxes. And you can do that legally. The government wants you to do that. That's how it's written in the tax code to incentivize you to do it. So take advantage, don't pay those taxes. Make sure you are saving for retirement and not paying your taxes because it's legal. And I think I moving on from retirement is the part that everybody misses. Everybody puts their cash into those retirement accounts and into their brokerage accounts and they're like doing a great job. I'm done. That's it. But no no, no. Investing is not putting cash into those accounts. It's actually buying stuff with that money. And people forget to do this all the time and.

And buying stuff with the retirement money or with separate money?

No, with that money. So, like, say you have a Roth IRA and you put $5,000 into that Roth IRA. I know people who have put that money into their Roth IRA for years, and they never allocated those dollars anywhere. That just sat in a cash fund and it didn't grow. And people will make comments when I make content about Roth IRAs or 401ks, and they're like, well, I don't know what you're doing, but my money hasn't grown. I'm like, did you invest it? And they were like, yeah, I put it in the Roth ira. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Did you go and buy index funds? Did you go and buy a mutual fund? Did you put your money into a Target Day retirement fund?

Did you do anything with that money?

With that money? The metaphor I talk about in my book is going to the grocery store. So you go to the grocery store, which is the brokerage, and you have your cash in your purse, and you walk in. Imagine just taking a lap around the grocery store and then going home and being like, why is there no food in my fridge? That's what people do. You actually have to go and buy, know, your fruits and your veggies and a couple snacks for yourself. You have to buy those things if you want them in your house.

But most people aren't aware of that, huh?

No, it's the one of the biggest mistakes I see over and over again. So invest your money is the I and P stands for my favorite part. You got a plan? You do not get to have your happily ever after. You don't get to ride off into the sunset if you don't have a plan. You got a plan for your party?

What type of plan should they be making? What's a good idea of making a plan?

I think it's so important to sit down, whether it's by yourself or with your significant other, and talk about, what does our happily ever look like? Are you and I retired in Naples, Florida, or are we retired in Naples, Italy? Because the numbers for those two don't look the same. You know, do we help our kids pay for, you know, their private education at a college, or are we saying take out loans? Do we want to have a pet? How many cars do we want to have? How many vacations a year are we taking? Are when we, you know, get married, are your parents moving into our house? Do we have to build a separate little, you know, in law suite for them? That all costs money. And if you don't know what that looks like for you, how are you going to back your way into that number?

Interesting. Yeah. So creating that plan, speaking of that was great. I loved all this about, you know, getting clear on your financial health and making more. But I wanted to ask you about intimacy, relationships, money and power.

Let's do it.

And you've been, you know, in a relationship for six, seven years, engaged for a year. But you also saw people probably go through different types of power dynamics and relationships in New York City, on Wall street, and people with lots of money.

Yeah.

When you were either dating before this, the guys on the floor who had been married and divorced, I'm sure you heard some crazy stories of people in Spain. And I'm sure the divorce rate is higher on Wall street than just, like, middle America. I don't know. Suburbs. I don't know.

I don't know if I would say that, really. Yeah.

Maybe they just keep it together, but they have, like, separate ones. Yeah.

I don't know.

Who knows? Yeah. Three families, like on billions or something. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. I was just gonna say dollar bill.

Yeah, exactly. But how much does money affect intimacy and relationships? When one person has more than the other, when both have a lot, when both have a little. What have you witnessed? And personally. But also what have you experienced from your research?

Yeah. Anybody who says money does not impact your relationship is a liar. Okay? It is truly. Every year they do some. Somebody does a study. It's money and sex. Money and sex. One and two, one and two. They go back and forth between who's number one, who's number two. But, like, those are the top two reasons always. And imagine if true, like, physical intimacy is up there and money's right next to it. Why don't we put just as much time into maintaining the money piece as we do the physical intimacy piece on.

Making a relationship or marriage work. You mean. Correct.

And I think maybe this is just a phenomenon that I have witnessed. And I will say this from like, a heteronormative relationship standpoint, but, like, we have a lot of guy friends who make a lot of money. And you are one of two dudes, okay? You either want a partner, truly. And, like, I know some of these guys, like their wives, girlfriends, whatever, are, like, the coolest, most inspirational, like, the just have the coolest job or they always have Something really exciting to talk about, like a passion project they're working on. They're like. They're just, like, so cool, and they're so good human beings, like, really nice. They do something. Like they just have a lot to bring. They're always the person who's like, oh, yeah, like, I brought a snack for you. I'm like, why do you have a snack for me? But it's like, they're just cool, thoughtful partners. Then there are other people who want a more. I would say with wives, it's more of, like, a traditional marriage. Someone who stays at home, who takes care of the home. And there's nothing wrong with that when you choose these routes. I think it has a lot to do with having been conditioned into thinking that you need to be the provider. And I will say, I think there are a lot of men out there that would not be able to handle having a significant other or a, you know, a woman's significant other who makes more money than them. Really? 100%. Because I think it would be emasculating for some men who are not confident in their own masculinity.

Yeah.

And their ability to provide in other ways that are not monetary.

So do you think when a woman makes more than a man in a relationship that it eventually will fail?

No.

It's possible that it works out.

Yes, I do. I really do. But you have to talk about that for sure. Like, I make more than my significant other. And I asked him, I was like, does it make you uncomfortable that, you know, I make more than you? Because for the first five years of our relationship, he made way more money than I did.

Really?

Yeah. He's always made more money than I did until I started you'd rich bff. And he answered in a really, really thoughtful way. And he was like, no, why wouldn't I want you to make more money so that we can do the things we want to do faster and I can retire earlier? And I'm like, okay, Sick, easy. And he's like, but on top of that, like, you can't make your partner feel bad. That's the part that's really messed up. I think, like, regardless of if, you know the guy makes more or the girl makes more, where you'll see issues is where the partner who makes more leans on that money to replace actual emotional investment in the relationship. So, like, venmoing your partner $200 because you can't make that date that's trying to buy affection instead of being like, I am so sorry. And then the next day, sending roses, you're still spending money, you're still getting a gift, you're saying, sorry, but it's not so transactional and gross. And. And then on the women's side, it's like making your partner feel bad that, like, well, I earned this money. It's like, you know, why are you going out golfing? Like, I don't think money should be, like, held over anybody's head, regardless of who you are in a relationship or if just, you know, between friends. Because that's going to negatively impact relationships no matter what.

Right. I've heard this. You tell me if I'm, you know, off on this, but I've heard that extremely successful, you know, let's call them boss girls or whatever. Boss women who are, you know, running their own business, CEOs making money, you know, leading the way, building inspiring things. And also extremely attractive women don't get approached by men as much for some reason. That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but that's what I've heard. It's like, if you're making a lot of money as a woman or if you're extremely attractive physically, guys are intimidated. This is what I've heard. Why do you think men are intimidated by extremely successful financial success within women or physically attractive women?

A fear of inadequacy, obviously. I mean, I don't mean to say, like, obviously you didn't think about that, but, like, I think when you see someone that you think is too good for you, whether it be through looks, through money, through anything, you would say, I'd rather quit before I try.

Wow.

For that fear of rejection. Like, it's such a fact. Because we have a friend who is just 10 out of 10. Smoke Show. She's never the one that people want to talk to at the bar.

Really.

She's. Oh, my God, never. Nobody ever talks to her. She's like, in the corner. Because everybody thinks that she will be mean to them. In fact, this.

Reject them or be mean.

Yeah, this girl is like a plus personality. Just, like, so beautiful. Like, I can only say good things, but no one ever approaches her because they think that she will instantaneously think she's too good for them. Whereas, like, if we're keeping it real, there are certainly girls who are not as conventionally attractive as this one friend. But guys feel very compelled. They're like, well, this girl and I are probably in the same league, and she seems fun. I'll give this one A go. And that is just so much more approachable because they think that it's essentially like saying no to yourself or like applying for a job that you think you're unqualified for. Like, people are quitting before they try.

Wow, interesting. Do you think it's harder for men to approach, you know, a smoke show of a woman, I guess, aesthetically, versus someone who's making more money than to them, or is it harder to approach someone making more money than them?

I think it's harder to approach someone who's visually attractive because it's hard to instantaneously judge being like, that woman makes more money than me. Right. I think there's also a lot of mental gymnastics that can go into it. I, I know what people say about me on the Internet. I see the comments. People are like, so statty's money? Like, it's not like I made it.

Right.

Like, it's my money, I invested it. Or, oh, she's a trust fund baby. Or, you know, did she win the lotto? Or like, what ha. Like no one ever just wants to believe that you earned your money or that you deserve it. They always want to make some excuse for themselves so that they can sleep at night. Because if they look at someone like me who has made it themselves with certain privileges that I will not deny, but who was able to do it and they in their 29 year old life have not been able to do it.

Yeah.

They feel shortcomings.

You know, it sounds like, I wonder what your fiance, if you met now. Right. As opposed to meeting six years ago when he had more money than you, and then the dynamic has shifted. I wonder if it's harder for a guy to meet a woman who has more money than them in this moment versus okay, we've kind of grown up in a sense and now. Oh, she's just crushing it now. That's exciting. It's probably a different dynamic, I would think then it's like, okay, you're making twice as much as me.

Yeah.

What is it going to take for a man to be emotionally, spiritually, you know, prepared to connect with a woman for the first time? That's making a lot more than them. What do they need to do in order to be comfortable? And is that, you know, dynamic something that you've seen work in relationships?

That's such a good question. Because if I'm being honest, I don't know if my fiance and I, if we met now, would be together.

Really?

Yeah.

Holy moly.

I don't know if he's gonna like that I said that. But I think I'm, I'm taking into account a bunch of other things, right? Like how busy my schedule is, how I. And worse, living in a gazillion different places. I'm only in one place every single week. Um, but you have history.

But if you were meeting now, it'd be different, right?

Well, I think about like I was talking to him because I was talking to some other creator friends. I was like, I don't know how I would date now. Like I don't know who would even possibly be cool with the lifestyle I have, right? We have history. Like you knew me back when I was swinging from the chandeliers in my early 20s, like, which probably makes him.

Even more desirable for you because he knew you before you met.

How he liked me when I was just little old me with my roach infested apartment, he was helping me move out. Like right, he liked me then exactly when you know, I was at my worst. And now that you know, I've struck it big, like he's the first person I want to call when something good happens. And when I go on vacation and we are just, you know, watching a movie on the iPad every night, like that's my happy ever after. Like you get to have that moment. You're like, we did this together.

That's cool.

I have seen relationships where the woman makes significantly more work. I think for men you have to ascribe value in yourself that isn't tied to a dollar sign. So what do you bring to the table aside from just an income? Because for so long, you know, this traditional sense of like breadwinner, you know, back in our grandparents parents days, it, it made sense because you could survive off of a single income, right? And you know, your wife would be at home making you dinners la. Now more and more people have to be in dual income homes. And for some men, when they see women who are making a ton of money, like if they can't hold up their end of the bargain, they feel lesser than. But if a man can really do and you have to do a lot of soul searching to do, this is like I am able to bring to the table love and compassion and care and I take care of the home. I have an incredible relationship with my children. I am able to support my wife in a way that, you know, if I was working full time, maybe I wouldn't. Or you know, even if you are working full time, like I still support my wife. I am the person who does all of the planning who manages XYZ in the house. Like, you have to find value in other places or I think of, like, the little things that I value that my partner does. Like, he knows how crazy busy I am, so he'll be like, I have picked the location of our next vacation. I'm like, all right, tell me where we're going. And he does all the research, and he's like, we're going to take this flight to this thing. We're going to, you know, make this transfer. This is the hotel we're going to stay at. And I'm like, cool. Love it. Done. Like, I don't have to think about it twice. But he loves doing that.

That's cool.

And.

And he's also contributing financially. It's not that he doesn't have any money.

In any other reality, he would be the breadwinner.

Right.

He makes a ton of money.

Right.

I own my own company.

Right.

So it was a different ballgame.

It's a different ball game. Do you think women can truly respect men if they are making a lot more than them meeting and kind of dating at that point, when they're already making more, not kind of building up and making more eventually. But do you think women can truly respect the man they're with if they make a lot more than them?

I'd like to think so. I hesitated for too long, didn't I?

You like to think so, but I don't know. I mean, just from the experience of, like, the research you've done, the industry you're in around money, the financial world, the. The people, you know, do the women truly respect them? You know, can you? Or is it always a little something underneath the surface that's like, okay, he adds value in lots of other ways, but I'm providing financially for this life. Do you feel like the woman can truly respect that man?

I do, because I've seen enough examples of it.

Okay.

I, you know, know quite a few women who make more than their significant other. My mom made more than my dad.

And that wasn't. That was after a period of time. It wasn't like they met. And she's making a lot more in the beginning, right. When they're, like, in their 20s.

You.

See, I'm saying it's like, yeah, they grew. They grew up and that.

I'm not 100% sure. I know that since immigrating to the US my mom had an easier time learning the language than my dad did, so she's always made more money.

Gotcha.

Um, I know, you know, all of my women creator friends all make more than their significant others. I mean, take Margot Robbie, for example. Her husband was, I think, like a producer or part of, like, the crew on one of her shoots. And they met. He ended up just being like someone she gelled with so hard, and now they're married.

Right.

And I think it works. I do think, like, you can, like, I think society ties so much of human value and respect to. To the dollar value next to your name, and it doesn't have to be that way.

Right. That's great. I want to ask you about where you think the world is going or with money over the next, you know, year or two.

Oh, God. Okay.

There's been a lot of changes over the last few years with the. With the financial world, with interest rates, with real estate, with people losing jobs, with, you know, whoever knows what's happening. How can we be prepared for what's to come financially? Whether it's incredible financially or it's a nightmare financially, what can we do today to start being better prepared so that we are not as affected as we could be?

I think diversification is really important. So that's making sure that you have that emergency fund, making sure that there's money. You are investing in the stock market through index funds that are all diversified. You're not just buying, like, one stock and being like, that's it.

Like, roll the dice.

Yeah. Like, it's not like that. You want to be really diversified. You want to be buying some bonds, you want to be buying, you know, equities. You want to consider maybe investing in real estate. Maybe that's buying, you know, an actual physical property or just investing in funds, rates, or something like that. I also think that, like, there is a disconnect right now from, like, a mindset perspective of a lot of people. And not to get on this, like, rah, rah soapbox again, but so many people now aspire to a life that, frankly, they will never be within their means.

Wow.

And I say that, and I. I know it's harsh, but Keeping up with the Joneses has become Keeping up with the Kardashians. Because you have it all on your phone. You can see this immense amount of wealth that, like, in any other reality, like before our, you know, our parents time, our grandparents time, you were never able to see it, right? Like, people have always had yachts, but now you see a yacht, like, every other day. You're like, par for the course. Like, this is great, Whatever. Like, I should have a yacht, too. And so you've Got people spending money like it's going out of style to keep up, and it doesn't make sense. I know people who only take black cars. I make seven figures a year, and I am ready to get into the Toyota Camry that picks me up.

Yeah.

Like, it's crazy to me that there is just, again, this almost, like, desire to, like, fake it till you make it. Of, like, you know, this. This trend of, like, delulu, like, delusional. Like, yes, in some ways, it's great because you want to apply for jobs that you're unqualified for. You want to do things that are outside of your comfort zone. But, like, that can also put you in a really precarious situation very quickly.

Right. It seems like I see these clips on, like, TikTok and different places of, you know, an interviewer asking, like, random women in their 20s, like, okay, what type of man do you want to be with? And how much do you think he's supposed to have? And they're like, he should be making $400,000 a year, and he should be making. And he should be six foot tall, and he should just. Otherwise, I won't date him. And they're like, okay, the percentage of people who are 30 years old that are making $100,000 a year is so slim. And then you're talking about 300,000amillionaire. It's so slim.

And then they're like, six, two. You're like, you got four people.

I know, right?

Like, I can list the four.

And they're also like, what. What are you going to contribute to this relationship? Well, I'm just going to, you know, show up and just.

I'm being hot.

Yeah, I'm just gonna be hot. And there's kind of this delusion, like, you talk about where I'm gonna get the richest guy. They're gonna give me everything I want at all times whenever I want it, and they're gonna like that.

Like, in what world?

Exactly, in what world? And it's just. It is a little delusional. What do you think is gonna happen over these next few years as people's beliefs and philosophy around what they think they're deserving when they don't get it after a few years? What do you think is going to happen as the financial world continues to evolve and shift and break down or build up in certain ways?

I think there's going to be a real painful, like, come to Jesus moment.

Really?

Yeah. Because to your point, unfortunately, I'm saying this as a woman, I really have thought about this very deeply. Women who bring nothing more to the table than their good looks have a depreciating asset.

Man. Women don't want to hear that.

I know they don't want to hear that. I don't want to say that, but it's true.

It is true.

You need to be able to bring something else, whether that's your own money for you. You made it, you spend it, it's yours. You need to take care of yourself.

Sure.

If. If you want. Like, let me tell you, I'm a. I'm a rich woman. I'm gonna be marrying a very rich man. We're gonna be rich together. I love that. Love that for me, but.

I love that for me.

I love that for me. But, like, you have a depreciating asset, right? Because you are the hottest you will ever be in your 20s, right? Maybe in your 30s, because the 30s are the new 20s. I telling myself that because I'm 29, 40 comes, 50 comes.

There's a younger, hotter girl out there.

There's always a younger, hotter girl. And that guy in that TikTok video who's making $400,000 a year, who's over six, two, you know, whatever, and is 30 years old, he's gonna date the best that he can in that dating pool, and eventually it won't be you anymore.

Wow.

You need to protect yourself. And I see this all the time because I get dms, really, from people who are like, I was married to my husband for 20 years. He just left me for some, you know, little young thing. I don't have a dollar to my name. I don't know the passwords to any of our accounts. What do I do? And that breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. Because you have to rebuild. You have to start from kind of scratch. Ideally, you know, you have to get divorced. You have to get. Go through court, get. Get money. But, like, you got to start from scratch. Which is why I always tell people, have your own money, especially for women.

Wow.

Sure, you can. You know, if you want to go after the richest guy, ask him to buy you everything under the sun. Great. You better still be working that job. You better keep your own money. You got to take care of yourself. Yeah. Because one day they may not be there, but you never wake up and your job doesn't love you back or your money doesn't love you back. It's important to take care of yourself.

I've got about 10, 15 more minutes. I want to talk to you to be mindful of time I feel like I could talk for another two hours on this stuff. But I wanted to ask you about the. The job market right now. And it seems like a lot of people are getting laid off. You know, these mass layoffs at big companies, and there's uncertainty financially with where the economy is going. What we already talked about. What do you think people can do to set themselves up for success or protect themselves at their current company to ensure that they're not one of those mass layoffs either in the near future or sometime in the future afterwards? And how can they start to predict if they might be someone who is going to get laid off?

Yeah. So you want to make yourself essentially irreplaceable. And the way to do that is to make yourself a key point of failure. So this is something that like, like big consulting firms go and find really key points of failure. It's something like the one IT guy who has all the passwords or the one social media manager who is the only person who knows where the analytics folder is. Like, you want to be that, right? You want to make sure that this business cannot operate without you.

So what if a business is already smart enough and they're like, okay, we have backups for everything. We have processes in order. What if they've already got.

Most businesses are. So I think it's finding a way to make yourself indispensable by still being a key point of failure in that, like, oh, I am on the sales team. I'm the number one gal. I'm the number one guy. If they lost me, they would lose 25% of the year's revenue. Because guess what? They're not. You're not gone. You're never going to be gone. Like, they will hold on to you till the very end.

You're bringing in money and revenue and growth. You are hard to replace.

Hard to replace. Hard to replace. Then there's other people who have jobs that are considered cost center. So, like, you cost the business money. And in some situations, it's very much necessary. Right. Like maybe the person who fixes everybody's computers does not create revenue for the business. But if the one IT guy gets fired, like, we're screwed. Like, my. My laptop blows up. How do I get a new laptop? I don't know. You know, top salesperson takes out of the wifi. Yeah. The top salesperson cannot log in. What happens? Like, it completely creates a point of failure. So you want to make sure that you can be that person, be the go to guy. Be the go to gal. Go to gal and creating that indispensable nature is how you provide yourself. Job security, being the best at what you do. Really like. I think we also need to just be honest. I ask everybody to ask for a raise every single year. But you need to lean back and really ask yourself, do I deserve this? Am I actually working hard? Am I actually producing good work? Because a lot of people aren't.

They're not.

They're not.

Yeah. Like they're coasting.

If you're coming out of work at 3pm every day and you are doing the bare minimum, like you're going to be on the chopping block, you should know that.

And why do people expect to get big raises or big, you know, pay increases by just doing the bare minimum? Why do you think people think they deserve a 10% raise for just doing the job minimum?

Well, in recent years, because of how the job market's been, it's been a employee's market.

Do you think it's going to go.

Back to the way right now it's doing this, it's coming, it's coming back in and you have to be good at your job. Let me be clear again. Those A plus, A plus employees, they're still leaving jobs, they're still going to new places, they're still getting paid and they always will be. Because if you're really good, there will always be some somewhere and somebody who wants you. But for people who are doing the bare minimum, it's harder to hide now because when things at the top and you know, the bottom line, revenue is not so frothy, they have to trim fat. And if you're doing the bare minimum, you're going to be the first on the chopping block.

Yeah.

So I think it's important about making yourself indispensable and actually doing good work.

Right.

But in terms of like prepping for a layoff, again, I think it's important to have that emergency fund. I've made content about this. But just, you know, check those warn notices every so often. Basically, if you just google your state and warn, notice, warn notice, warn, warn notice, warn notice, warn act. It is basically any corporation with over a certain number of employees needs to give notice when they're doing a mass layoff. Lots of companies try and skirt this by getting rid of like an, a slightly odd number below the threshold or you know, giving just enough time, whatever, but just check. I think it's important just to have an eye out and like, oh, wow, okay. Like a lot of companies in the hotel and hospitality Space are laying off a bunch of employees. My employer's not on this list, but I might be soon.

Who knows? Yeah. What skills should employees be developing throughout the year or years at, you know, a career or multiple careers? What. What can they develop to make themselves more indispensable besides just like, okay, I'm doing the job and I'm showing up and doing it, but should I be taking classes? Should I be learning public speaking? Should I be some other skills, learning to make myself more desirable at the current job or on another place?

Yeah, I think every job. Being good at your technical skills is great, but you want to have transferable skills, and these are the soft skills.

Bring it. What is it? What is it? Tell me.

Just. Again, it goes back to those fork and knife skills. You want to be able to have a conversation with just about anyone. You want to be able to make someone feel special. And I feel so lucky because after my stint on Wall Street, I went and worked at a media company in strategy. Sales. And let me tell you, sales, that is another beast, because you eat what you kill out. And I got some sales training that, you know, my company obviously paid thousands and thousands of dollars for. And I don't remember any of it, except for one thing. Wiifm. So you guess what that means.

W I F. Oh, two I FM F. I was thinking, what if something, but I'm not sure.

Okay, so you got the W. What. What's in it for me?

Ah, yeah.

So we always know what we want, what's in it for us, but what's in it for me? For. For the other person? Why do they need to help you do that thing? And this is how I always get what I want. I. No, no, think about it. I always think at the other end of the table, what's in it for that person?

Yeah, like, it's like the prenup.

It's a prenup.

What was in it for your?

What's in it for my. What's in it for. You know, I'll talk about you. I know that you have, you know, a very, very successful podcast, but what's in it for you interviewing me? You want a lot of people to listen to this. You want to get those, you know, chartable numbers up. You want to be up the ranks. You want a big social splash. You want all of these things. And I position myself in a certain way to make those things happen. If I go to the car dealership, I'm like, okay, it's the end of the month, it's the end of October. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna ask for the floor mats. I'm gonna do all of these things. But I'm like, but what's in it for that guy? That guy's getting a commission because it's the end of the month and they need to make their number, they want to hit their quota, they want to get the kicker, and they get paid upon delivery. So I'm going to go four days before the end of the month, and then I'm gonna have to buy, you know, an as is car on the lot. But I think about what's in it for them.

That's cool.

When I'm at a gate and my flight's been delayed and I'm mad and I'm angry, I'm like, this gator agent wants to kill me. She does not like me. She doesn't want to help me. What can I say that is going to make her want to help me? So maybe it's, hey, I know you got a crazy crowd control thing happening going on. When do you think we are going to have an answer? If not, I would like to just rebook my flight. That way I can get out of your hair. And then they're like, oh, okay. This person has already thought through solutions. I can just ABC pick one for them. Whichever one that I think is going to make the most sense based on when I think the plane's going to arrive to the gate versus what's going on. No gate agent wants to answer that question because it's always bad news. You're always going to be mad. I know. So think about what's in it for me.

What's in it for that man, I'm excited about this Rich af, the winning money mindset that will change your life. Make sure you guys get a few copies of this. Give them to your friends. If you want to learn how to really maximize your earnings to get more out of your current job, your career. If you want to understand the difference between savings accounts, investing, all these different things, the. The technical side of things here as well. If you want to learn more tax strategies, legal loopholes, it's all in here. Make sure to check it out. You've also got an amazing podcast that I want people to check out as well. We'll have all these things linked up. That's called Net worth and chill.

Net worth and chill.

You've got your rich bff. You got so many different things. Your social media is great. I love seeing your content online. Your TikTok, your Instagram we'll have all that linked up. What can we. What else can we do to be of service to you today besides get a copy of the book, Check out your content, all the things.

Yeah. So you can get a pre order copy of rich af@richaf. Me. Yes. I made the URL a manifestation and you can find me on social as your rich bff. But if there is one favor that you can do for me that I would so, so appreciate is just talk to your friends about money. Mm.

I love that.

Because we've been told for so long that it's taboo and tacky and you are doing nobody any favors except for big all corporations. When you keep that information hidden, when you hold that shame. Let me tell you, when you talk to your friend about money and they make more than you, they don't suddenly make less for having told you, but you now know and you can go and ask your boss for more. So please, please talk to your friends about money.

That's beautiful. I think the earlier you can speak about money and make it more of a common practice is just having a conversation over coffee and just relaxing. It will be less stressful in the future.

It doesn't have to be an icky topic.

It doesn't have to be. I love that. Vivian, this is powerful. I've got two final questions for you. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. Hypothetical question and scenario. Imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day. So you live as long as you want in this life. But we're at the last day of your life. Can be 100 something years old. 200.

Okay, but has my body deteriorated?

You're still in perfect health.

Okay, great.

Yeah, you still look great. Okay, great. You're filthy rich. You've accomplished everything you want to accomplish. You've got a beautiful life, family, everything you want. It's happened. But it's the last day. And you've got to take all of your work with you to the next place. So the book is gone. This interview is gone. Everything you've ever created for whatever reason is gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons in the world. And this is all we have to remember you by. I call it three truths. What would be that for you?

Wow. Okay. Wasn't prepared for that one. That is an excellent question. I would say the first, always buy them the chicken parm. And this has to. You know, there's a little bit of an explanation behind this.

I love Chicken parm. It's incredible.

Okay, so the first.

There's amazing chicken parm here in la.

Oh, really?

Amazing chicken parm?

Yeah. The first guy I worked for on Wall street, my boss's boss, was this super Italian guy, like, just the most Italian Italian man you've ever seen. And he told me one day, he was like, viv, you always gotta buy them the chicken parm. And I'm like, sir, I'm lactose intolerant. What are you talking about?

I'm vegan.

I'm like, I don't even eat cheese. But what he meant by that was, every so often, out of just the random kindness of his heart, he would buy a bunch of chicken parms, and he would dish them out to the people on our team. And then, you know, the guys on it, the guys in the back office, the guys in the middle office. And, you know, he must be spending, like, almost $1,000 on chicken parm. And he meant by, like, just treat people with kindness, not because you know you have to, but because you want to. And then when he ever had an issue, those people came running to his desk.

Yeah.

If multiple people were having issues, they only ran to his desk because he had genuinely treated them with kindness. When it didn't serve him, when it was just a random Wednesday, he would be like, oh, hi, how's your kids, like, Little League game going? And, like, took a genuine interest in people. And to your point of being interesting and asking questions, just being kind. I think that's really important.

That's cool. Okay, that's the first one.

That's a good one. I would say if you are a woman, just know yourself and know your worth. I think we compete a lot with other women because we have that scarcity mindset, and we think that another person's success is our downfall. And that, you know, if you're number one on the podcast charts, it means I'm not number one. Okay. But there's always room for more people to succeed. Like, there's enough white space for all of us to get there, for all of us to have what we want and get what we need. And I think it took me a very long time to learn that. I would always be like, if that girl has xyz, I can't have it. Like, I need to do this. It was just, like, so unhealthy. So I think it's more of, like, knowing yourself, knowing your worth, and not being unnecessarily competitive. I think there's a little healthy competition in everything, but don't let it be to the detriment of, you know, your mental health or, like, anything in your life. And then, you know, just. I think the third one is don't kill the golden goose.

You have that on your shoes?

Yeah. Oh, my God. No. Don't tell me what kind of shoes I'm wearing.

It says golden goose.

Yeah, it does. So not sponsored by the Golden Goose shoe brand, but I would like to be the. The old fable is that. And I'm sure you've heard it, right.

Go ahead.

Okay. A farmer's wife, they have this goose, and every single day, this goose lays a golden egg. And they're like, oh, my gosh. Like a little nugget of gold. They're like this. So weird. And all the other geese are doing this, but, like, this gold is amazing. Like, we now have this little pellet of gold. I wish we had more. And so every day, they get a little egg of gold, and they're like, well, it's not, you know, happening fast enough. We should kill the goose. And that way, the inside of the goose will be entirely gold. We'll be able to get it all at once, and we'll sell it. So they slaughter this goose, and the inside of the goose is a regular goose body, and there's not a single piece of gold. And I think this is a bigger metaphor of, like, life of us always wanting the next big thing, wanting more. But, like, I am a big, big. Like, this is a problem I have. I currently have the life that I prayed for a couple months ago, and sometimes I don't get to enjoy it. Sometimes I'm not even enjoying it, and that's sad. I think we need to not kill the golden goose. Enjoy those little nuggets of gold that we get every single day. And it's okay to want to work for more and strive for, but don't ruin a good thing just because you're always trying to, like, hit the next milestone. They'll come. But you could completely lose this entire journey if you don't take a second to stop them roses and stop and smell the roses.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love them. Those are probably the most unique three truths I've heard. I like that. Before I ask the final question, Vivian, I want to acknowledge you for your realness. I love this conversation. I love connections.

Well, that too. Honest, I hope.

I love it. I think it's amazing. I'm. You know, I'm. I'm excited to connect with you and to share this message and hopefully connect more and have you back on and learn more about your stuff. So I acknowledge you for. For sharing this in your authentic way. I think they're.

Thank you.

I think seeing people like you, you know, with the history and the background you have, be as honest and real as you are, is really inspiring. So I really acknowledge you for showing up authentic to you and not trying to fit in some mold of, I don't know, some type of financial expert that you might think of. So I'm really. I'm really glad that you're doing it your way and teaching it your way, and I think it's really inspiring. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

I would say greatness is being so in your own lane, so far ahead you don't even know you're running a race. And I think that comes with having your own value system, understanding your own definition of success, not being worried about what other people think and say of you, doing what you love and really striving every single day to live in a way that little you would be proud of. We should choose our path based on, like, what. What industry is hot right now? I think what's going to make you the most money the fastest is the thing that you're willing to consistently do, and that's usually connected to something that we actually care about and are interested enough in. So I think sometimes we're like, oh, this is hot, or this is a hot idea.